Cirrus SR22 Fuel Exhaustion Yuba City, Ca. 13 Oct. 2020
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- Опубліковано 18 жов 2020
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Aram Bedrosian
www.arambedrosian.com - Наука та технологія
Any flight where you don't end up on Juan's channel is a success.
As in how a poor fuel decision leads to the end of your flying career
Hi from Belgium! Personaly , on a SR20, I use my old analog watch as a visual reminder: whenever the minutes hand is in the left half of the watch, I use the left tank. When the minutes hand crosses into the right half, I switch to the right tank. Easy.
Simple, is good.
Great ldea! Noted, will pass that on too!
That's a good idea. On my Cessna 206G , I use the flight timer on my AV-20 backup attitude indicator. I switch tanks every 30 minutes until less than 1/2 then burn one tank to almost empty to land with 1 hr. in one tank.
Great idea
What if it’s a digital 😱
Totalizer worked perfectly. The plane was totalized.
Bill the traveler..... excellent post Brother!! D@mn near fell of my chair, I was laughing so hard! Thanks! 😂😅😂
Last words, "Oh chute"
@@Cmoredebris Not bad, George. But I still have to rate "Totalizer worked perfectly. The plane was totalized" at number 1....still gives me a real belly laugh! 👍😂😊
@@Cmoredebris Great 👍 In my own opinion, I just don’t get the logic of the chute. If you use it then you have no control where the plane crashes. If you land then crash site is your choice.
Thanks for the reply.
awesome
We had a off airport landing here in Michigan last year due to fuel exhaustion in a 172. The fuel cap was left loose or off, and fuel siphoned out of both tanks. The pilot was depending on the engine fuel totalizer and didn’t notice that the tanks were emptying. Both the pilot and passenger survived a night landing in a farm field.
I read all the comments and a lot of them question why he pulled the chute. Look at the result, dead stick mid-flight, 3 souls on board, 3 people exit aircraft uninjured. That is ALL that matters. There are quite a few dead Cirrus pilots who never pulled the handle. There are even a much larger number of pilots who were killed (in all airplanes) during a forced landing due to fuel starvation. This pilot did a lot wrong, but pulling the chute was not one of them and kudos to him for doing so.
The people who are saying this are obviously not Cirrus pilots and probably not even pilots at all...or good ones. I’ve owned three Cirrus’s before moving to turbo prop and this pilot did exactly what is taught (well other than run out of fuel in the first place like you stated) and engrained in our minds as Cirrus pilots with the CAPS system. Juan, yes, there is a procedure for cutting away the chute, but is rarely done by the pilots. If I had my guess it’s more the “holy shit that was close and were alive” state of mind rather than....what can we do to lessen the damage of the aircraft and what are the winds suppose to be tonight state of mind. See Mike Kobbs reply below, he is exactly correct and I’ve taken up enough space already especially to explain the fuel procedures you inquired about. There should be plenty of qualified Cirrus pilots who will respond as well. Thank you AGAIN for the FACTS.
That ballistic parachute system has saved a lot of lives, that's not in dispute at all.
There is a lot to be said about the "human factors." I suspect that after they all got out of the aircraft their thinking was only about 1) how badly this event could have been, and 2) how were they ever going to stop their knees from shaking. Just saying I thankful they are alive.
@@daviddehaan6182 For sure, I agree with you 100%.
You shouldn’t be flying an aircraft of any kind if you can’t land in the rice fields of Northern California, right.after harvest when they are completely dry.
There’s other things that need to be considered here. When you pull the parachute you are no longer in control of the aircraft. You could drift into powerlines, you could smack against a tree or a cliff. I don’t think this pilot made the right decision at all. And good luck with him ever getting insurance again.
I’ve done plenty of dead stick landing and it’s the easiest thing in the world to do if there is someplace to land below. We have tens of thousands of glider pilots who do it every day!
Went for a color tour flight today for our anniversary. All I kept thinking was "man I hope we don't end up on Juan's channel!"
😂😂😌
Whatever keeps you focussed
One time I had to take 5 gallons of gas to my boss that ran out of fuel in his Porsche. I told him "E does not stand for enough!!!" Needless to say he did not see the humor in it.
@VIPFlight Yes for 5 more years. I left the company on my own terms.
@@oldschoolnomad813 his boss said E also stands for EXIT hers your pink slip.
And “F” is for Fired.
6:47 is an excellent summary, although I quit running a tank dry after a difficult restart one time. My primary flight instructor used to drill into me "If you're not doing something, you're doing something wrong." That was in the '80s. Still true today, modern avionics notwithstanding.
My Dad told me he waited for the tach to start jumping (C182). I never tried that.
I am a Cirrus SR22 owner/pilot. I actually had a fuel leak last month that I only became aware of after I changed the oil and was leak checking the oil filter. The engine was running fine and I am not sure how long it was leaking for. There was no blue on the belly or fuel smell. Between that and watching this video I have come to the conclusion that I depend a little too much on the fuel computer in my Avidyne glass panel.
To answer your question, I take off on the fullest tank. If I am full fuel I take off on whichever tank is already set. I have the Avidyne IFD 540/440 and they alert me every 30 minutes to switch tanks. When switching I always look at the mechanical gauges for proper fuel balance.
I am ultra conservative on fuel levels, I have never landed with less than 1 hr reserve, and I live in Florida where there is an airport on every corner to get fuel if needed.
I am linking on a video of the fuel leak that I sent to my mechanic when I discovered the fuel leak.
ua-cam.com/video/nz1d7Xtsgl0/v-deo.html
Former Cirrus driver here. Fuel management in a Cirrus is very important. It’s easy to get complacent on a x-country and forget to switch tanks and get out of balance. I always did careful planning and fuel management to stay out of trouble. If you run one tank dry you are probably significantly out of balance.
you also have three adults/ in this plane, along with ? luggage? My high school Arroyo is in El Monte, half a block from the El MOnte airport and the concrete wash. Pilots would practice touch/go during the week and on the weekend, load Aunt Betty and Uncle Bob into their small plane, and drop FAST on approach and end up in the wash, turned over. Amazingly I don't recall ANY major medical, but in HS it happened every few MONTHS.
77leelg I don’t care what airplane you fly from a PPG to a jet, fuel management is important in anything with an engine. Hell, I have an MEL and learned in a C310 at age 20 (now old fart) and fuel Mangement is critical in any twin airplane let alone a single, in a twin recip it makes sure you arrive at the crash scene with one engine running
The pilot’s brain was significantly out of balance.
So, no "both" on the fuel select. I'd wondered; thanks.
@@williamswenson5315 Low wing aircraft do not have a "both" selector option. If 1 tank ran dry then the system would just suck air rather than draw fuel from the other tank. This is not an issue with high wing, gravity fed systems, so a high wing aircraft would have a "both" selector option. (i'm sure there might be an execption for either case out there)
Great to see Jason add his thoughts. Juan - thanks for all you do for the aviation community.
Cirrus pilot here!
Caps Cutting
There is nothing in the checklists for cutting the lines to the parachute on behalf of the pilot. However, in the Cirrus first responders documentation there are instructions on how to cut the parachute and which type of tools are required. The pilots job during a CAPS deployment is to make sure the engine is off, fuel lines are shutoff, electrical systems are off, and ELT is activated. Upon landing, evacuate and distance yourself opposite of wind direction (most likely so that if the plane is dragged on you don't get squished). One reason why cutting the parachute is not included in a checklist is because of the risk that the plane may catch fire due to the substantial amount of fuel that is likely to leak post-deployment. The stress from landing sends a nice shock into the wing/fuel area usually causing some sort of damage to it.
Fuel Management
The Cirrus has two fuel gauges as you mentioned. Typically every 30min or 1 hour you crosscheck your totalizer with your fuel gauges to make sure that the difference is close (level flight). if not, then you must suspect a sensor has failed or you have a fuel leak. I'd pick fuel leak every time if I know my fuel gauges have been accurate recently and if I shake the wings without getting a change in fuel guage reading.
I change fuel every 30 minutes, reminder set in avionics. I have six columns on my ipad scratchpad: Time, Tank Switching From, Totalizer Fuel Remaining, Fuel Gauge L, Fuel Gauge R, Fuel Flow
First Responder Slideshow Cirrus CAPS
firstresponder.cirrusaircraft.com/2013-11-04Cirrus1stResponderInfoSlides.pdf
My personal rule: land with an hour's worth of fuel in the tanks.
Good. Stick to that rule and don't sway. Good ADM never killed anyone!
@Ben Ghazi no, in small general aviation aircraft Landing weight does not matter. You could land with tanks full or tanks near empty. However, a good practice is to top off your tanks after you're done for the day. This helps prevent condensation from forming inside the tanks and getting water in the fuel.
@Ben Ghazi For us older pilots, landing with lots of fuel means we fly shorter legs and that way we can pee more often. Happy pilot...happy safe flight.
that's exactly how my instructor is teaching me
The only time you have too much fuel is if you,re on fire...
Juan,
Thanks for your commentary.
I'm a Cirrus SR22TN owner with upgraded fuel gauges from CiES. The transducers in the tank are digital encoders vs. the traditional analog potentiometers. The process of calibrating these transducers is long and tedious taking the better part of a day because you calibrate them 1 gallon at a time from empty to full. When that gauge says you have a gallon in the tank you have a gallon in the tank. The gauges readout to 0.1gal. All of the newer SR22s have the CiES transducers.
Having said that, the only time my Cirrus has ever had only a gallon in the tank was when it was on jacks, leveled and drained. I never fly with less than 10 on a side.
The Cirrus is by far the most automated aircraft I've ever flown and like you, I have over 3000hrs in trainers and fighters in the Air Force. None of them hold a candle to the Cirrus for navigational and systems situational awareness. I miss not having an air to air radar and sidewinders, but that's another story. The detail provided by the displays is unprecedented in GA and fuel management clues are no exception. The FMS will tell you how much fuel you have over every waypoint and it will especially tell you that you don't have enough to make your destination. This is displayed from takeoff to, as in this case, pulling CAPS. With the CiES transducers I've never seen more than 1 gallon difference. The Cirrus burns about 1 gallon every 5 minutes in cruise so that's accuracy I've never seen in any other aircraft. In this mishap a gallon would have gotten him to the numbers.
I'm not going to second guess this pilot. Pulling CAPS was the right thing to do.
I just wanted to inform your subscribers that the Cirrus and I'm sure all newer GA ships really do take advantage of proper fuel level sensors, gauges and computational assistance in keeping the pilot aware of fuel, weather, traffic, terrain and engine condition.
Just excelente the final interview with the instructor! No doubt that the cirrus community members who had the opportunity to saw this video will never forget the lesson. Great job, Juan!
Glad to hear they all walked away. Thank Juan.
Not saying it's the cause of this situation, but technology is not a sustitute for skill.
You couldn’t be more right. I fly left seat in a G550 and Challenger 350 the majority of my time as my Job. I had a new first officer several months ago ranting and raving about how these planes do everything for you and it’s so nice. We were on a position flight (headed to pick up passengers, just us two on board) and I shut the auto throttles off and pulled one engine back to 50% (he was PIC on this flight, however I’m also an instructor and check pilot for our company). Three minutes later he noticed and got upset with the airplane that it didn’t do its job and went on and on about having automation for a reason. He is now back in the classroom and will be getting some more training before he can prove he is actually a pilot. I’ve seen this several times in the last few years. I could go on for days about this subject. In addition, I’m afraid this is exactly how many of the low cost airlines are operating these days.
More like it's not a substitute for caution. A cat 3 autoland will hit the 1000-foot marker every time, even in zero visibility. You will never have that kind of skill, and it's not a mistake to let the technology do its job. The mistake would be not bothering to monitor it and letting it flying you straight into a mountain.
Here’s the questions A lot of people are dying to know:
Was it a doctor or a lawyer piloting the plane?
Was he with his wife or his mistress?
Were his flight hours in the single digits for his new plane?
Finally, why do you need to pull a parachute when you have rice fields to land in?
Oh, one more thing, I wish Juan would ask these questions....
Well said
@@specforged5651 we need more pilots like you 👏👏 I wish to get into the mcc ops some day and would really like to be in a cockpit with someone like you
Great to see Jason from The Finer Points as a guest. Back when podcasts were relatively new, TFP was one of the first ones I followed. Pilots with the gift of instruction are much rarer than pilots who manage to procure an Instructor Certificate. Good to see two of the former on here!
Excellent report Juan, and good point about fuel leaks. Reminds me of a flight from Seattle to Narita as a passenger on a brand new MD11 decades ago that experienced a severe fuel leak on the #2 engine that apparently was not picked up by the totalizer, and was and that was not realized until we did not have enough fuel to make it to Tokyo or back to ANC. The captain talked to Soviet Air Command and tried to land without permission at Burevestnik Airbase, but on a high downwind we were shepherded off by an armed and close formation by a MIG-29.
We were instructed on ditching procedures and told to expect to ditch near the as close as possible to the Hokkaido coast. As it was during Desert Storm and the flight was nearly empty I moved to an over-wing emergency exit, put on a life vest and looking at the rough seas I pulled a second vest and considered how I might use it for extra flotation as I noticed a Japanese F-15 and chase the MIG off and followed in close formation.
Luckily we just made it into the Joint use airbase in Sapporo and ran out of fuel on the #1 engine as we turned off the runway. I recall the Airport crew had 50gal drums cut in half and made into hand wagons with wheels to catch the leaking fuel from under the #2 engine. As I recall the MD-11 did not have a FE, and to this day I wondered if the Captain, a former Norwegian SAS Captain flying the Thai International was doing fuel cals, or just going by the totalizator until the problem became dangerously obvious.
Awesome to see The Finer Points and Juan on the same video together. That's a LOT of experience and knowledge on display.
If they couldn't cut the 'chute, they could have stuffed it into the cabin.
Another fine quality video. Thank you Juan for keeping it real ....
Thanks for your informative articles. As a pilot they are helpful to help understand what led up to incidents and accidents.
Juan, as usual, great reporting! I continue to be impressed by how fast you pull this information together, not just for the Cirrus but for all the other aircraft (I commented on the Pilatus too). You just bring a whole lot of credibility to the story. I really enjoy your work. Thank you! I will have to stop by to let you fly the Cirrus ;-).
I am a G5 SR22T owner and a CFI (not a CSIP) located in Hayward. I have grown up flying most Cessnas and Pipers, as such I have learned to not trust fuel gauges. I am fundamentally programmed not to trust and I constantly verify. Maybe the new generation of pilots are more trusting of electronics which indeed have become much more reliable. (remember the flakey transponders, maybe not?) I use all data/information and cross check, noting starting fuel, FF, and time (preflight planning is critical here too, plus optional scenarios). Even in my modern SR22T, I have experienced of one of the fuel sensors sticking (I think), showing a +15 gal imbalance (30 minutes earlier was balanced, then 30 minutes later moved back to normal) which doesn't create a lot of trust. BTW I do program Garmin timer to flip fuel every 30 minutes as well as check OX levels.
(CSIPs do make this recommendation)
I recently flew (to and from) Alaska returning nonstop from Bellingham WA to Hayward (~675nm). Having a similar issue of unusually strong (southerly) winds (as I had to stay relatively high (13,000) above all the smoke). I ended up having to stop in Vacaville for fuel as I couldn't land at Hayward with a comfortable fuel reserve. There are so many great airports this pilot passed up with convenient and cheap fuel!
Sad.
A few comments per your questions. The Garmin-Cirrus Perspective System provides an amber 'low fuel' alert message (with a double chime) displaying a solid yellow highlighted 'triangle' pointer showing the remaining fuel in that tank or both. So far I have not seen a 'white' (or a 'red') version of that Alert. The system also displays a 'fuel imbalance' amber (and red) alert message (no chime). Cirrus does not train pilots/owners to cut the parachute. I guess most of us would just be happy to be on the ground alive. Not sure of the altitude of this flight but suffice it to say, the SR22T is not a very good glider, (per the POH) from 10,000 ft, the SR22T can glide 14 nm assuming best glide speed. A fully loaded SR22T (G5+) has a useful load of around 1080 lbs. It is possible the pilot traded fuel for the weight of the passengers and baggage
... I guess we will find out. Regardless a real bummer.
Great Info! Thanks Hans!
Good advice. Most common form of engine failure is fuel starvation. Fuel management, Flight planning and land somewhere and buy some gas and grab a coffee and sandwich. Dont be scared or embarrassed to do so. More fuel than less is always better, don't skimp. When I got my Airline Command I had a meeting with the training manager and the first thing he said to me after congratulations was "don't skimp on fuel".As Juan knows every airplane you still have to regularly check fuel used versus remaining, fuel leaks are your worst enemy , the gages wont tell you anything ( you need to do the maths) even in the big jets. 👍
When I was flying my Cessna 172, people would express an interest in becoming a pilot. I would ask “have you ever run out of has in your car?” If the answer was yes, I would say that flying was probably not for them.
Let’s hear it for high wing aircraft. . . Fuel on both, fly straight
Mate, that's funny. I have done the same for years. I also enquire about car crashes. It is a good indicator in my experience. Cheers
I asked myself a similar question after my Subaru shot one of its valves through the engine block on the 405 Freeway. I asked" Has your engine ever blown up in your car." The answer is yes, so, flying is not for me. :)
I have run out of gas in my car because I was a teenager and I was stretching my dollars so far as to make them scream. I also understand the difference in consequences between running a plane out of gas versus my car. I haven't run a plane out of gas, so I figure I'm doing OK. LOL
I know a man who is infamous for running out of gas in cars who got a pilot's license.
I drove about 600k mls total and only ran out once. To my defense it was because of a very sneaky level sensor fault. I really like to drive it almost empty though, I guess I'd be great for some low cost airline ;-)
Thank you Juan
I'm not a pilot or an aviator of any kind but I'm fascinated by the complexity of flight and of aviation in general.
Something else to take into account. There is the psychological aspect of feeling happier to push the limits in a Cirrus because you potentially have an "out". The parachute.
If you have enough $$ that you can think that way ... must be nice. I would beat the idea of relying on the chute out of people. IIRC there's several conditions it won't work in and like any piece of safety gear it's not there to play with, it's there for the things you can't anticipate. I don't go banging my head off trees skiing because i have a helmet, I have the helmet for that time i find a rock.
No Cirrus owner thinks that way...just Cirrus kibitzers and wannabeez do...
good to know that the pilot is going to survive the crash he's going to have later this week
Problem is he won't watch this video. He'll still leave the BP attached.
@@russguffee6661 he's talking about the 22 Oct date on the video.
@@Pahrump whoosh
Great job Juan, and thanks for bringing Jason from TFP in for his knowledge. As we work together, we can greatly improve GA safety!
I fly with a group of cirrus owners. I am not aware of any of them who do not carefully watch the fuel gages. I check mine regularly. There are four ways I know their accuracy: 1. The fuel gages, 2. The totalizer 3. The fuel dispensing pump 4. A paint stick marked in gallons.
I definitely use old school fuel management procedures in the Piper Tomahawk I picked up. In 1991 when I got my PPL and transitioned to Piper Archer, etc... That is how I was taught. Make a grid on paper, put L/R tank and from start to shutdown at destination you right down your times. I always keep a good reserve on each tank and you also have to be mindful of Useable fuel compared to Non-useable fuel per POH. I also use a stopwatch and mark the actual time down. Never flown a Cirrus.
Sticking around for the post script was worth it. It's sounding like this could be an excellent learning experience, that didn't involve any fatalities.
After a crash landing the last thing they were thinking of was cutting away the parachute. Happy everyone was able to walk away. Great video Captain very informative.
Great vid!! Love the analysis. Running out of fuel is unacceptable.
Hi Juan, I very much enjoy your channel. I fly a SR-20 and do several things to manage fuel. I have a reminder set for every 30 min. for tank change, I plan 10gal/hr with 2 hour reserve at destination if the avionics show less then that I stop for gas’s. Also fuel gage is above selector so you look at it each time you switch tanks. Great work thanks
I remember the guy who tried to fly from Phoenix, Arizona to Napa, Ca. It was super bowl day and he didn’t want to miss any of the game. He made it to 1000 feet short of one eight right.
Looking at the autonomy data of a Cirrus SR22 it follows that it has an autonomy of about 1050 nmi assuming to travel at a cruising speed equal to 183 Knots equal to about (183 / 60s) 3.05 Miles covered in 1 minute. It is concluded that with full tanks (without exceeding the MTOW value) the autonomy of this aircraft is approximately 5-5.5 hours. Now it would be necessary to see if in addition to the three people there was also a baggage and possibly knowing its weight all this could have led the pilot to decide to embark less fuel in order not to exceed the MTOW and also to keep the Center of Gravity (CG) within the correct limits. . The distance
from KBUR airport to Yuba city 052 airport is about 330-340Nm which if traveled at a speed of 183 knots it takes about 2 hours of travel, considering the unfavorable winds (probably above 35-50 contrary knots) I would have loaded fuel for at least one ETA estimated time of 3 hours 3 and a half hours if not even 4 hours, if this was not possible due to the weight I would have made an intermediate stage. The pilot should have realized that he would not have enough fuel to reach his destination and should have alerted the controllers with a PAN PAN PAN emergency and requested an immediate landing at the nearest airport. For me it was a human error.
Great reporting as always
Really liked the Cirrus instructor's humility and attitude. Would feel very comfortable taking lessons from him.
My dad was out flying when this happened, the controller contacted him to see if he could spot them, he watched them touchdown and shortly after the plane was flipped then dragged across the field. Really unfortunate considering that there is 3 duster strips nearby and one is paved.
Right the ag fields are loaded with duster strips. When I was flying we had a couple of Cessnas dead stick into plowed fields. Both flew again.
Thank you be safe
Awesome video, avid, passionate fly guy here, also USAF as a young man, went for my ticket years ago, but had my son, so here I am much later in my life and I only go up in the Cirrus SR22, only way I could get my wife now to let me go up once a year, bcuz of the emergency parachute, its my treat to myself, love flying, love the cockpit, the controls, the cockpit room. Sadly flying is just so expensive with the maintenance, upkeep, etc. worst than when we had our ocean boat. Man love your content, thanks for sharing and reminding the ppl of KISS, old school ways never fail us. 🤙🏻
It’s also expensive to fly because incompetent pilots crash a lot. Like this guy.
@@steveperreira5850 Absolutely! 🤔
Interesting report. Nice to see your guest Jason at the end - seen him a lot over on Steveo's channel Flight Chops.
I am not a pilot, so I can't speak from a pilots perspective. I have been driving various land vehicles and watercraft since I was 9 or 10. Checking fuel levels, and other fluids before, while and after I stopped was drummed into me by my Dad. In over 50 years of operating on water and land I have never run out of fuel. I have a very nice trip system in my car. It tells me mpg, distance and range. I still look at the gauge, it is part of my routine scan of the instrument panel while driving. It is critical just driving down the road.
Once on vacation, in a new van, I noticed a fluctuation in the temperature gauge. Pulled of the road into a truck stop. I checked my fluid levels. Coolant was pretty low by my standards. I inspected under the vehicle for fluid leaks. None were found. I figured my shiny new van had a leak in the head gasket leading to the combustion chamber. Refilled the radiator and overflow reservoir and continued home and reduced speed and frequent stops to top off and check the levels.
Went to the dealer and then fought the battle of warranties. Eventually lemon law right declared and vehicle replaced. All without an attorney. 😎
I think this pilot got misled, and spoiled, by the range-predicting gadget. Never did the math on head-wind.
@@wim0104 gas gauges might have given them a clue. The gadget on the dash with the range prediction and so forth is nice. But you have redundancies in some cases for a reason . That's why the plane has gas gauges. the only time you really need an oil pressure gauge is when you're dropping pressure otherwise it's just comforting to know oil pressure is right. It is the same with the temperature gauge. It just reassures you that things are working normally. Whether you're flying or driving you should automatically be scanning your dash, including the gauges your mirrors and obviously out the windshield period when you're flying I would add rotating your head regularly to ensure someone isn't blundering into the side of your aircraft or coming up from beneath it or above period when you're driving you should be looking left and right no matter if you're going to turn because there are things that are going on that don't show up in your mirrors until it's too late. That's the way my dad taught me that's the way drivers had taught me. What you don't see can hurt you. When you are flying so can the ground.
Nice reporting Juan...
I just love how you let us decide things for ourselves. Wish more of the world worked than way.
Juan, thanks for answering my question.
No injuries, GREAT ! The airplane however..... what shame. Thank you Mr. Brown for a fine report.
yeah but the pilot in command is far too stupid to hold a licence, dont you think?
"- I know my plane, it'll make it home"
I play that game with my car but never when flying
@Thurman Merman 😂
@@kaimeier8528 That third dimension makes it too scary.
I ave NEVER EVERran out of gas in a car, the OLDER VW vans/cars did NOT HAVE FUEL GUAGES, as it sputtered, reached down , &7 switched over to RESERVE, just like motorcycles, but I also never believed the fuel guages in a C150, so topped it off, ALWAYS CHECK OIL in PREFLIGHT .! But the BEST FUEL GUAGE IN A CAR was a 66 DODGE DART, my 2013 TAURUS is darn good also, +2btrip odometers, a MPG guage /how many gallons to empty Cheers 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
@Thurman Merman just yes
You can create multiple timers on the system. I set it for 20 minutes which corresponds to about 5 gallons at cruise. I balance the tanks after leveling off since the burn rate is higher climbing. I then reset the timer when the tanks are even. I switch to the fuller tank on descent and the tanks are about even after landing.
Juan, Great job on explaining that Cirrus parachute landing. After, I came across the
Great cameo with Jason!
There is no guidance in the AFM or the Cirrus emergency responder's guide w.r.t. cutting away the parachute. The only instructions in the AFM are to get away from the aircraft and remain upwind to avoid any chance of having the plane dragged into you. In the responder's guide, the advice is to deflate the parachute using a fire hose, then park a heavy vehicle on it. Since the airplane came down in a rice paddy, that would be impractical. The main parachute straps are Kevlar, so cutting them would definitely not be easy. It might be possible to cut the risers. Or, if the parachute was not inflated right after the accident, it's possible that it could have been gathered up and rolled up to prevent it from inflating, but there is no guidance for this in any documentation I can find.
What's the chute itself made of? I was thinking about if you could shred it to prevent it filling again?
Thanks Mike!
Thank you for checking that! I'm thinking that the pilot must have been pretty rattled, and hadn't given the parachute much thought.
Plus he had just flown over 400 miles. Likely was exhausted.
@@catherinenelson4162 I'm sure rattled is an understatement! FWIW, flying 400 miles in a Cirrus isn't particularly tiring -- that's only about 2-1/2 hours. But after the emergency and the parachute pull -- I think it's totally understandable for his attention to have been on other things.
The Normandy airborne drops 6/6/44 had the US troops cutting loose from their 'chutes; the Brits had a quick-release, which got copied post-haste. Sort of surprising Cirrus doesn't have some manual release mechanism.
Yes training is always key in coming home at the end of the day.👍🇺🇸❤
Lol.. training?! That was a joke, right? I ask because "training" would have taught him to adhere to VFR minimums and to be able to pick an alternate..
This CAPS mentality has to stop.
When my dad was flying down in Tasmania from our property, over Bass Straight to Melbourne, he always started a flight with full tanks regardless of the flight distance. He also said that he always had no less than 30% margin. He flew in that way and until he could not keep his license after 65. He said he never ran out of fuel or even came close in 45 years.
Three Rules of Aviation: 1) Don't run out of fuel. 2) Don't fly in weather you or the aircraft are not qualified to be in. 3) Don't fly unairworthy aircraft. These three are the top killers and accident drivers in GA year after year, decade after decade. Be smart and fly safe.
Are you a pilot, and do you believe this is true?
I have run out of fuel more than once, knew it was going to happen every time. Landed safely every time. :) PPG is awesome that way.
The three most useless things in aviation are
Fuel in the bowser
Airspace above you
Runway behind you
I would put don't stall (especially in the pattern or at low altitude) over any of the above. More FATAL accidents happen due to loss of control at low speed/altitude than fuel exhaustion (which is typically survivable), weather-related accidents, or mechanical issues.
And sump your tanks, always.
CAPS - Cirrus Automatic Petroleum Service. If not reached on the first try, the parachute will attempt to reposition the aircraft overnight. V 2.0 will also include a seat shaker, to alert the PIC to look at the fully automatic system before absolute 0 remaining is reached. Note; your mileage may vary with these systems. Things that make you go 'hummm'....
CAPS. Cirrus Allows People to Survive system. Does your chunk of junk have that?
I recently flew my Mooney 231 5.9 hours westbound from Perry GA (PXE) to Ponca City OK (PNC) - significant headwinds the whole way. I completely topped off the tanks, max fill, before takeoff and after landing. The PNC fuel pump is old - creaking old rotating analog numbers. What I learned -- the JPI EDM 900 calculated 64.7 gals used, and the pump on the ground pumped 64.9, leaving me with 10.3 gals remaining. Meanwhile, the EDM 900 fuel levels (reading from the tank floats) left me thinking I had less fuel, perhaps 6-7 gals remaining (causing anxiety). The fuel totalizer is more accurate and reliable than reading the digital fuel level readout from the tank floats. Any time I get to 10 gals remaining, I'm landing to refuel.
Great discussion and great postscript discussion, too! In addition to the possibility of a leak (or a missing filler cap, which in some planes can have the same effect), what about this: Pilot has adequate reserve, but he's a little close. He plans on switching tanks the last time when the fuel flow 'flickers', so he'll have max available fuel in the other tank. But instead of stuttering, the engine stops. He's low enough that instead of attempting a restart of the engine, he punches out. Or, attempts a restart, but can't get it restarted before he's too close to the operating range of the recovery chute.
I bring up this possibility because I know pilots are training on having 30 minutes reserve past expected flight time for day VFR, but I've never heard of an instructor talking about the leftover fuel you're going to have in one tank after the last switch. Having 30 minutes reserve split between two tanks kinda sucks...or running out because you miscalculated switch times the same. Some pilots will intentionally run a tank dry to avoid that, but I'm too chicken to do that, so I plan on 30 minutes left in one tank.
Finally, this is a reminder to CHECK THE WEATHER! Murphy says headwinds are stronger than predicted, until you turn around to go back home, then it dies to nothing.
My first instructor pulled my engine on me every flight. After a dozen times he said there isn't anywhere you cant find a spot to land this bird and he stopped pulling the engine but I never stopped looking for a good place to land.
Somehow the parachute seems to have caused as much grief as if he had just landed straight ahead on a flat surface. When practicing multi-engine, my instructor was yanking an engine in all regimes, including at about 20 feet off the runway during takeoff. (It was long enough and I did land straight ahead with room to spare). It taught me to keep sharp at all times, especially to know the numbers (fuel burn, best glide, etc.) for the bird. Sorry for the owner of the 22; probably feels awful - and probably worse if he opted not to have full tanks on takeoff. Thanks Juan. (Hope you are healthy and soon back on flight status)
CMike C, hello, many moons ago, from CALDWELL WRIGHT CDW, with a C150, my instructor pulled the key, SAIDfind a place to,land, saw the leaves on trees same direction I was, so turned around, and LANDED ON RT 80, , as it was NOT YET opened to traffic, but someone did REPORT AN AIRCRAFT DOWN ON THE NEW HIGHWAY, HE said the KEY on older Cessnas , was in the MIDDLE , of dash, & that a child DID pull the key & threw it out, . My o my ,, cheers 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
I don't know where you were flying but that isn't always the case. I flown over highly forested and rocky terrain that a dead stick landing was going to be really bad or I was getting wet.
Dave Luttinen your instructor was even tougher than mine, and for sure I got the idea in my head that I better be ready to Land out in any situation and I was always planning for it. It is obvious to me that some of these pilots are not disciplined and we’re not strictly taught.
Flyby Airplane I love that story. Land out forever club!
We had one land on our ranch in Dixon, CA. about three years ago. I believe it was also Fuel management.
Fuel mis-management?
Beyond the 45 and 30 min ifr/vfr rules, just plan to always land with one hour reserve. And go by the LOWEST fuel based on gauges or fuel totalizer or flight time x galllons per hour.
not a cirrus pilot, but this is why i fly one tank at a time. My M20C is old enough not to have a "fuel imbalance" limitation, and the manual recommends flying one tank completely dry, switching to the other, and noting the time - your time remaining is then however long it took for the first tank to go dry.
As long as you do enough of a preflight to *know* that your tanks are not leaking between the fill cap and the fuel selector, this method will give you an accurate "50% endurance remaining" time, regardless of how fast the leak between fuel selector and engine is.
harder to do on birds with a "max fuel imbalance" limit, though.
You and Jason started to hit on it. The Fuel Totalizer is manual. You enter the fuel in the aircraft manually - it’s not related to the floats/gauges just beneath the power lever. So if you said it has 86 gallons (less than full) and you misread and it has 82 gallons, then your fuel used is going to count down/show usage from 86 and your FOD (fuel over destination) will be erroneous. You have to double check pre-flight fuel, fuel added, fuel based on gauges and THEN enter into the totalizer, even then you can be off by 1-2 gallons. The Tabs are 30 a side, Full is 46 a side. This pilot just didn’t do it properly and his mistake is a wrecked SR22 and insurance increases for the rest of us. The potential 1-2 gals shouldn’t matter if your planning 45 mins (IFR) or 30 mins (VFR). I said 1-2 gals it’s because you’re reading fuel gauges that use general numbers (e.g., 40 and 10 then big/little lines in between), so you’re estimating them, not reading exact numbers.
This one made a little hanger talk among us pilots. Its easy to blame the “rich guy- push
In a cross country training flight in 2013 SR22T we had a high pressure fuel leak. Essentially there was no apparent leak on the ground, but once underway we were flying at 11,000 feet and I noticed an engine sputter and then the nearly stopped before my CFI took over and immediately looked at the gauge in the center console and flipped to the other tank. We had been underway for about 15 minutes and had plenty of fuel. We then made a plan to divert to another airport and picked up fuel. At that point the leak still wasn’t detected. We assumed that we somehow made a mistake on the totalizer and didn’t switch tanks, but we both were certain that we did. We fueled up, made it back to our home airport. Three days later the CFI told me that the plain did have a leak and told me that I got some real life experience with a fuel management problem and an engine problem. In my training we talked quite a bit about the fuel management and using both the totalizer and the gauges, but most of the CFI’s I’ve flown with lean heavily on the totalizer. I can see where you could misjudge your fuel with some strong headwinds, but this pilot should have been watching the gauges while seeing he was in a stiff headwind, which the Garmin display would have clearly indicated. Landing at another strip seems like a much better alternative, plus It doesn’t seem like he had enough fuel to begin with. I’m sure he and the passengers were so frazzled by the ditch that they didn’t even think about the chute staying attached to the plane. Good thing to remember. No reason to cause more problems when you just survived a crash landing. Good video.
Always do what my Dad (25 yrs SAC) said: Never push the limits if you don’t have to.
I think the most important question that unfortunately doesn't get asked enough is "What if?"
What if the gauge is faulty?
What if GPS goes down?
Every flight should be treated as a training flight. Fly dead reckoning with GPS as a backup. Fly a manual fuel management system with the computers as a backup. At best it makes for a mentally challenging flying experience at worst it could save you life.
I have a Cirrus SR 22 T - I have my reminder set for 10 min. Sounds like he was trying to push his luck.
Do I understand that you are switching fuel tanks every 10 minutes when you fly? I have been away from general aviation for many years and am not familiar with the Cirrus.
I’ll bet any money he wasn’t trying to push his luck. We know what happens 99% of the time, not paying attention, distracted by passengers. It could even happen to me if I was a doctor and my new mistress was flying alongside me.
Only once in 20 years of driving a car have I ever run out of fuel. Clearly I would be learning all those tips and tricks to keep an aircraft flying. As you said as well "Alternates"! Even a main road if safe to land is an alternate.
I flew a 2006 Cirrus SR 22 for many years. The totalizer was very accurate but requires an accurate starting point. When not filling to tabs, or a topoff, it is possible to give the totalizer the wrong numbers to work with. With 3 adults on board it’s probable they took off with partial fuel. The primary fuel gauges were garbage in those days and a source great frustration.
As a 2x Cirrus owner, I have a G1000 reminder set, but I also like to keep myself occupied on long flights to see how close I can keep both tanks. :-)
How many airports did you fly by, while looking at the gauges in the yellow?
I’m still in training and I fly the SR20 it’s pretty much the same cockpit layout to the bigger sister of the SR22. I start with the fullest tank first if I don’t start with a full tanks. If I have a full tanks then I will use the left up until take off. And no POH don’t tell you to cut the parachute after landing.
I always keep an eye on the fuel totalizer and switch tanks every seven gallons rather than every half hour (or other interval). That eliminates the variables of throttle setting and fuel rate. Seven gallons, by the way, corresponds to a half hour of running at cruise power in my airplane and others using this technique might use a different amount.
My fuel gauge is worn on my wrist and it has a sweep-second-hand.
Great job as always Juan. I teach in Cirrus and it is a straight forward fuel system common with many other aircraft. The G-1000 has a alert system that if one tank is 10 Gal out of balance it displays a msg and caution in the annunciator. Having head winds should have been figured on pre flight wx check, and trip time and fuel required calculated. With reserves. In the event conditions change the CAPTAIN makes the decision to divert for fuel. This is standard stuff. Some Cirrus owners get the training but the judgement is acquired. As a flight instructor I put my heart and soul ln teaching this critical factor of planning because too often we are seeing fuel miss management!!!!
Thanks Robert!
Juan - The discussion segment at the end of the video is a technique that would be a great addition to other similar videos when possible. Including the comments of a pilot experienced in the aircraft and the associated training helps make the presentation more than just a technical review of plane and systems, it provides a human element that rounds out the presentation.
Yep!
I fly an SR22 from Joburg, South Africa. I usually start in the left tank and switch every 5 gallons of fuel used. The CFA taught us to switch tanks every 20 minutes, but with roughly 15 GPH it is virtually the same...
I was up in Oroville on Thursday two days after this and the wind was crazy strong (scientific term). Driving North and East, I got significantly worse milage than driving South and West.
Pull the chute: EXPENSIVE. Leave the chute attached... VERY VERY VERY EXPENSIVE
Fly and land safely at an alternative, no airplane cost, just some time cost. Getthereits strikes again. Proof positive that an idiot with a licence (or a degree) can still demonstrably remain an idiot.
If you use the chute and settle the SR22 somewhere, can it fly again necessarily though?
@@rabidbigdog In a perfect scenario, it can be brought back to fly again. But typically, and the real world answer is the airplane is totalled after a chute deployment. In a perfect storm, and this happened once; Cirrus bought the AC after the accident. They fixed it up themselves and used it for testing. They sold it, but it crashed (unrelated) later.
@@rabidbigdog I think it would have been easily made flightworthy again....until the wind dragged it across the countryside.
@@grecco_buckliano Insurance likely wouldn't allow it. It is safer for them declare it total loss and have it scrapped than risk that someone else gets killed in a poorly fixed plane or plane with a hidden breakage from this crash later. Especially if the manufacturer claims that the plane is a write-off after the parachute deployment. Money isn't an issue for the insurance - everyone else pays it in their increased premiums.
Awesome as always 👍🏻
Mr. Brown: You taught a teacher! No hours in his type, and he is certified. I love listening to your explanations. Unfortunately, they aren't making enough like you anymore.
two comments: 1) This guy will never get insurance again - amazed that he didn't recognize the hazard of having a plane under full canopy on the ground in high wind conditions. In insurance there is a clause called "duty to protect" i.e. limit losses to the insurance company after an accident. He proably shoudl have stayed on site to protect the plane by getting the chute cut away - now it's a total write off.
2) running out of fuel is not that hard to do, having landed at Chico at night with less than 1.5 gal remaining. Best plan: fly by time, not distance - take off with full tanks, assume max fuel burn per hour, and land with one hour remaining.
Yep, full tanks, full passengers, as much luggage as you can cram in...
You don't spend much time doing w/b then?
I fly a 2005 SR22 with analog fuel gauges driven by float senders in the tanks. The aircraft has a totalizer on the Avidyne MFD. The totalizer and the fuel gauges appear to be quite accurate and both reflect the same amount of fuel during flight. I am constantly cross checking the gauges to the totalizer, and switching tanks every five gallons or so. I have my Garmin 430s set up to warn me to check fuel every 15 minutes. The aircraft has a low fuel indicator light that turns on when either tank gets below 10 gallons. On a long (4.5 hour) flight I expect to be less than an hour from my destination before that light turns on.
That's how I was trained...... Monitor time/progress and switch tanks every 15 minutes. BTW.... I trained in the 90's on warriors with steam gauges..... technology makes people lazy...... 😉
Good technique. You aren't likely to run out of fuel because you're a careful pilot.
@@williamswenson5315 it works well for me.... 😊.....I'm not a Luddite, but I think it's not a good idea to train from the beginning with all the bells and whistles. In school, we weren't allowed to use calculators until we proved we could consistently solve the problems with a pencil. I've seen the new glass cockpits and I think synthetic vision is amazing.... Especially for single pilot IFR. But, should learn to do it "manually".....this way, when the bells and whistles go t1ts up..... You know you can still do it and you'll be alright. 👍😊
@@arthurbrunelle9828 If I were training primary students these days, I'd solo them in a tailwheel aircraft like a Cub or a Champ. It's a great way for the student to discover the aircraft has a rudder and I still stick my tanks with a graduated measure to confirm what's in there. Among the other techniques I was taught, one was to keep a VFR sectional to hand when flying IFR. That came in real handy on one occasion. I was fortunate in that I was trained by an ex-Navy pilot and I'm certain that has saved my life more than once.
@@williamswenson5315 Totally agree... after getting my PPL, I met a couple with a beautiful Cessna 140. He had restored it and probably loved it more than his wife. 😂 Anyway, we got to talking and I told him the ink still hadn't dried on my PPL. After he finding out I had no tail dragged experience, he offered to take me up. At first, I found it difficult, but soon found it easier in some ways. I was one of those who didn't "know what a rudder was for", with my instructor always complaining the yaw was making him feel we were flying sideways.... after the 140, the rudder became my best friend.... 😊
Excellent! Another situation to improve risk management on fuel monitoring. I am not a pilot just a fan of aviation.
Can't wait for the report to come out from the NTSB on this one. There are so many basic things that seemed to have been overlooked before the pilot even left the ground, and a ton more that were forgotten while in the air. Guess they found out that they weren't Sky King flying the Songbird after all.
It’s real simple for me. I’m not the most sophisticated pilot so I just run higher personal minimums. If I can’t land with an hour or even 90 minutes of fuel still in the tank, I’m not going direct. If total remaining from the totalizer, or the fuel gauges themselves, start looking low to me, I’m just gonna land halfway and get gas. I like to be relaxed when I fly and plus it’s a chance to see somewhere new, maybe pee and then get some fresh coffee.
"it says here on your resume that you almost flew to Yuba City"
"the only way to really check the accuracy of the gauge is to go 'til it stops"
Here is 7/8 of the inflight meal, we only have 7/8 of the required fuel to arrive anyway
"....and then we will parachute in and hike rest of the way"
"rice paddy to ditch with no one on board- how do i mark that down in my logbook?"
"and for $275,000 it comes with a jerry can strapped to the spar"
"yes mister tow truck operator, its the one with the orange and white parachute in the air, you cant miss it!"
apparently the Yuba City airport valet wears tall rubber boots
just having fun!!! Love what you do on this channel
Good to see you in a hangar again, though your videos from home were fine.
Great update thanks Juan, interesting in this day, that a plane can literally run out of gas, I'm sure there will be a story behind this
Weren’t you logging the fuel flow? No, I thought you were. Damn.
I thought it was a hybrid, and we could always get to a gas station on the battery. :)
They need to make the SR86...fully autonomous...where a pilot is optional. :) Otherwise, they all will eventually come down on chutes. I expect the next one to be something like this: "SR22 comes down on chute and knocks down windsock at airport on calm, sunny day. Pilot says, "I don't know, I was up about 6 or 7 thousand or so and it just conked out on me. So I pulled the chute. And then, kablammo, it hit that orange cone thingy on the pole, there."
@@Andrew-13579 +
@@Andrew-13579 lmao
Well they better figure there groundspeed in a headwind. Alot airports went under them. Do bad all that damage leaving that chute on ashame. I remember Those old (40s) Bonanzas had the fuel return on the left tank youd go along way before switching then on the rt tank would be about half the time (remembering to also switch the piano sw to the single gauge to the flowing tank). Had a hand pump on the left wall for pressure
I have a DA40 with a G1000. The permitted fuel imbalance is I think 7 gals. The G1000 gives a reminder to switch every 30 minutes. The range ring warns you at 45 minutes in my set up. For my own part, I never fly with minimum reserves - I have rarely landed with less than 10 gals, which in my airplane is a safe hour.
Flying is thinking. Too much reliance on cockpit automation has once again proves that it not a perfect system and pilots must stay engaged. You asked all the right questions to lead us there; the voice of reason!
Who was the pilot. Moe , Larry , or Curly
90% probability that whoever it was is commonly addressed as Dr.
A Doctor wrecked our Skyhawks XP
Wait until they have to fight with their insurance company. I heard they got a lawyer from the firm of Dewey Cheatham and Howe
It was SHEMP
Hadn’t thought about Shemp.
Pilot still needs to do the pilot thing called THINK, fancy equipment is no replacement for thinking. Like Reagan said trust but verify,
I fly several planes with these totalizer but I still fly by time, record each change. If winds are not as forecast easy enough to catch, if your thinking. If in doubt blow dust of old mechanical E6B and run the numbers.
You don't even need that, a $5.00 pocket calculator from staples will fit in your shirt pocket. It's simple math. I use a CR-2 that Jeppesen made that I had for 45 years because it fits my shirt pocket.
Children of the magenta line have zero clue what an E6B, dead reckoning, or pilotage is
No, the pilot needs to admit he/she is too stupid for this stuff & let someone else do the flying.
j Madden spot on! Unless there was a fuel leak and the pilot was scrambling to find a place to put the AC down, there is zero reason for this to happen. Let alone the numerous diversion airports along the way to get some go go juice
Great questions about the parachute. 🪂
I had a 82 Piper Tomahawk II back in the 1990's, the fuel tank selector value broke one weekend morning over North New Jersey, I made it to Easton Pennsylvania, stayed high on final approach in case I lost power and landed OK. One fuel tank was completely empty, and the other full, there was no imbalance problem...