Just want to say -- prior to COVID I had little if any interest in aviation. I started watching your videos because I had extra time on my hands and I'm hooked. Your command of the subject matter, and your ability to explain it to laypersons like me sets you apart from the other aviation UA-camrs. I also appreciate your commitment to factual integrity.
I agree with Ken. Go back in Juan's videos to the Oroville Dam incident. Juan is a certified reporter. (However you phrase that!) And he is dedicated to truth. And doing a good job for the public, be they flyers or not. (Juan's aviation background is long and amazing!)
I agree, Gretchen! I'm always up for learning something new, and over the time I've been watching Juan's webcasts, I think I understand things related to aviation. Pete has taught me something also: Aviate Navigate Communicate. 🦊🙂😊🦌
So true about radial engines and something happening without pilot knowledge of it. 1985, flying B-17 Sentimental Journey as Crew Chief. Flying from Tulsa, OK to Mesa, Az. Doing one of my regular rounds of the aircraft caught a glimpse of what I thought was oil smoke. The sun's position and our course made it invisible till the wing lifted just so to see it. Back into the cockpit I went and via hand signals told them we had one smoking. So they caged it and we flew the remaining 45 minutes into Mesa, where it was found we blew a cylinder.
This took place in my greater back yard. The Valiant Air Command is maybe 2 miles away. It's a great organization made up of military pilots and aircraft techs. They got an A-6 which was my brother's first ride back in the El Toro days. He later flew f/a 18s. Those guys at Valiant spend 100s of hours on these. This was a big surprise. As they say in the navy, any crash you can swim away from is a good landing. 🤗
I shook his hand and he signed a hat for me and said "good for you" after I told him I flew an RV-4. Saw his airshow too. Un frick`n real! He was the master of power management.
My dad was a NAVY mechanic in WWII and this is one of the kinds planes he fixed. There were TBM's by Martin and TBF's by Grumman. Almost identical aircraft. Like comparring a GMC pickup to a Chevy pickip.
"Once any mechanical problems starts, it's unlikely to get better on its own" are words to live by. Interesting to know of the model's history as air tankers and why they don't get used in that role today.
Yes, I did watch the video and that's why I said that it's interestING to know about that. I did not write that I would be interestED in knowing. But thanks for making it abundantly clear.
I have been in aviation all my life. The biggest goal has always been on Safety. Pilots have always been in forefront of doing the Right Thing. This TBM pilot did everything Wrong. He was told he trailing smoke prior to his engine failure and He didn’t Divert and make a precautionary landing. In his negligence, he severely damaged an rare aviation treasure. Endangerment of innocent civilians should never be tolerated.
@@oldmech619 Now that the record of that pilot is better known , his succession of incidents speaks for itself. That man can't be trusted with rare vintage aircraft and probably not with airplanes in general. At least not with any passengers or flown over populated areas.
As an engineer, my favorite may have to be the "Mechanical issues typically do not tend to get better as time goes on." Truer words were never spoken. Could have used that in a few reports to management.
Thanks Juan for the update. If they dismantled it right away and spray it it can be saved we would while I was stationed in Alaska have cocky young pilots that wanted to land the chinook helicopter in the ocean is hated it because all the floors had to come up all the landing gear taken apart resealed, bearings cleaned and repacked it was a timely process. Love all you do Juan keep up the great work. God bless you and your family.
THe difference is that Chinooks were built to land on water, so the electronics and other important stuff are sealed. TBMs weren't built to land on water, so everything touched by saltwater will be ruined.
I don’t know...I agree with you but let’s be honest, he also landed that close to shore to save that bird. I’m glad he survived and that the plane was recovered, but his decision to ‘land’ so close to spectators was a dangerous (maybe even selfish?) I believe he was skillful but also ultimately lucky that he didn’t hit, injure or kill anyone.
Juan, The TBM is very restorable. The sooner they flush the airframe the better but real damage from salt water takes a while to manifest itself. I remember chasing that stuff on the carrier. Much worse aircraft have been restored to flying status. The Valiant Air Command is starting a donation program for the restoration. That's not o their website yet but it was in an interview piece I read.
@@craigbielsky115 Nope. It takes months to sometimes years for saltwater to do damage. Nothing is going to get badly hurt in a week or so before they do a flush. Valiant Air Command has already made the decision to restore it. The metalwork is all very straight forward and the systems get restored along the way. The cost should be under a million spread out of a few years. That's what these historical flight organizations and museums do. They restore aircraft. Airplanes in much worse shape with real saltwater damage have been restored and are fly today. Here's a perfect case in point www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3057575/Spitfire-shot-Dunkirk-discovered-buried-Calais-beach-40-years-later-auctioned-2-5million-fully-restored.html BTW your caps lock is stuck.
@@craigbielsky115 Your also forgetting that the entire airframe is primed and painted sailing out moisture. If it was primed in epoxy primer the better it'll be. The seals the metal at a molecular level. Either way salt water never touches the metal.
@@craigbielsky115 You're as clueless as your caps lock key. The only things that are junk are the electronics, and there aren't many of those in a WW2 plane, the engine and the prop. Unless they did a shit job restoring it and didn't use corrosion preventing paints and sealants there should somewhere between little and no corrosion at all to the airframe and sheet metal provided they get it out of the ocean water and flush it thoroughly with fresh water.
Dear pilot: I hope you are right, I hope they restore it, I believe it can be restored also because it’s not in the water for very long and they really need to wash it down thoroughly.
Won't fly again. Salt water ruins everything it touches. It might get rinsed off, and put on static display somewhere if it is not further destroyed by the salvagers. In any case it is a complete write off.
@@lynnkramer1211 Not sure how salvagers would get a hold of it. 95% of people on this channel support these old warbirds flying until they crash - so surely people will value them as static displays as well.
@@workingguy6666 The salvagers are the ones pulling it out of the water onto the beach Usually by dragging it across the sand, with no support of any kind. So the belly will have to bear the full weight of the aircraft as it's dragged across sand and rocks.
@@murphsmodels8853 I would still think it could be a static display - I thought he meant that the salvagers would take parts or the entire aircraft and claim it.
I do feel that ,"relegating it to static display" is a bit premature at this point.Give the old gal a chance to get flushed out with fresh water and dry out before you condemn her!
@@JLange642 she’s toast. Salt water is in everything and ruins way too much for it to be practical to replace it all and make it flight worthy again after dragging it from the water assuming it’s not damaged by waves or the physical removal.
@@ocvegasproperty SHE GONE ......SALT WATER WILL MIGRATE THROUGH ALL THE WIRING AND ELECTRICAL.....IT WOULD NEED COMPLETE REWIRE AND ELECTRICAL REPLACED AND NEVER COULD BE TRUSTED SHORT OF FULL REBUILD
@@JLange642 Flush with fresh water is not the answer.Salt will penetrate any cracks in the paint and cause corrosion of the metal over time.The only way to do a decent job is to remove all of the paint.These warbirds were not good planes when they were new due to the wartime rushing of all engineering and production methods.80 years later only the best should be flying,any marginal aircraft should be grounded.
The other day I was supposed to fly on a 777 but my flight was delayed and missed my connection. I was so pissed I missed my opportunity to maybe meet the great Juan.
Thanks for the excellent coverage on the TBM ocean ditching. Unfortunate for the plane and pilot. Seeing the TBM brought back some wonderful memories of my getting to ride in one from Norman, Ok to the Lawton, OK airshow back in the 80s.The flight was about 150 miles accompanied by several other warbirds from the CAF. Col Tom Thomas was the owner and pilot. We did a steep dive and high speed, low pass across the airport with other G inducing maneuvers. For me it was a grand, once in a lifetime event. I also got to ride in the airshow in a B25 named the Iron Laden Maiden, including a simulated bombing run. I was a news videographer back then. Thanks again for all your excellent aviation analysis.
Their was a Corsair years ago that ditched around that area and it was rebuilt.Start the fresh water rinse in every place you can get the fresh water to.It will be a matter of money but it can fly again.
More than once in the airtanker business we called smoke trailing from a DC-6/7 -7's have Power Return Turbines on the engines if a seal broke you have a nice smoke system and oil disposal. To this day I watch takeoff and landings just to make sure ...
Like you always said if you’re going to hit the ground hit something flat soft and cheap. All three boxes were checked on that. Long as there’s no injuries it’s all good.
Not all is good if the lesson to not land in an area full of people when you can easily land just a bit farther off shore where there are no people isn't learned. There would have been no more danger to the pilot had he landed just a bit farther off shore. He did not need to put all those innocent lives in danger.
@@Penfold101 Hit concrete and tell me that 💩 again. Ask the pilot which he would rather have after he has hit it. You don’t see people jumping off of diving boards into a dry pool I have hit the concrete before in a plane on an emergency landing not fun and chance of fire goes up extremely high
@@golfbravowhiskey8669 Obviously I’m being a bit facetious, but calling water soft is just ridiculous. It’s incompressible, and above certain speeds you may as well hit concrete. He only has to get the angle or speed wrong and he’ll either rip the gear off or the deceleration rate will crush the aircraft. There’s a reason one of the engines was ripped off the aircraft in the Hudson River landing. You only have to watch the video to see how quickly the TBM slows when it hits the water - it’s not solid, but it doesn’t compress and there isn’t a huge amount of difference between the two. It definitely isn’t ‘soft’. Try jumping off a 20 metre diving board and hitting the water spread eagle - see how soft it is then...
There is a regional airport about two miles from my house. Heard this plane fly over it 2-3 times yesterday as the flight paths go right over my house. He didn’t need to land at the Cape or Patrick’s AFB. That being said I have no idea why he didn’t just land at the closest airport which is the one that’s near me. He literally made 2-3 passes lined up with the runway then went south and ditched in the water.
easy to second guess after the fact. By the time he committed to landing on the beach, the earlier spot may not have been an option. Thing's happen fast and you don't always have time to make the best decisions.
He didn’t risk mowing down civilians either. By the way I love Robert Johnson‘s book, “thunderbolt.“ The best part to me was when he got in a tough dogfight with a very good German pilot. Johnson eventually got the upper hand and shot up that German fighter plane and the pilot tried to bail out. Johnson knew this pilot was going to survive to fight again and most certainly kill other allied pilots and crew. As the pilot began to get out of the cockpit, Johnson flashes his 50 calibers, a short burst, to make the pilot get back in the cockpit, and the pilot did. Johnson made that Nazi son of a bitch ride that doomed fighter plane into the ground and die. The more dead Nazis the better.
If I’m the pilot, I wouldn’t want to be too far off the beach in case I needed to be rescued. But don’t want to be too close to beach and risk hitting a beach goer or swimmer. Seems he did pretty good job of it.
I don’t know...I agree with you but let’s be honest, he also landed that close to shore to save that bird. (For those that don’t know, this plane had been under work for the past 20 or so years and had just been completed ✅ about a year or so ago) - I’m glad he survived and that the plane was recovered, but his decision to ‘land’ so close to spectators was a dangerous (maybe even selfish?) decision. I believe he was skillful but also ultimately lucky that he didn’t hit, injure or kill anyone. IF you are the pilot in command, you (better) understand and KNOW the inherent risks involved. That said, if things go bad for you, yes, do the best you can to preserve your life along with any crew/passengers. BUT....B-U-T...If saving yourself then knowingly involves the potential death of innocent bystanders, then what you do, without question, is you accept the fate you may have been assigned. You abandon the hope of saving yourself in the rightful understanding that your tragic death won’t kill innocent others...WHY THEY HELL DO I NEED TO EXPLAIN THIS? Good Lord, have mercy on us all...
@@Av-vd3wk Is it not selfish to want the pilot risk his own life more than necessary? I'm a pilot, and as of yet have not learned to swim, I dread ditching, and avoid needing to until i learn to swim. But in his shoes, landing in deeper water could be fatal for me.
@@Av-vd3wkYou are not a pilot nor have you been in an emergency situation....we NEVER care about the plane (in fact we hate it at the time) all we worry about is not killing anyone then ourselves but never the plane...passengers and pedestrians and pilot F___ the POS plane.
@@SoloRenegade I hope the FAA looks closely into this near fatal crash as to the endangerment of innocent people. No pilot has that right. If the pilot could not swim he should have been wearing a inflatable life vest and there are always a lot of boats that could have facilitate a simple rescue. No excuse to cause avoidable deaths.
Pilot did a great job getting that bird down safely. Didn't stall, didn't flip, and didn't hit any swimmers. Can't get a much better outcome than that under the circumstances.
@@horrido666 You are missing the point. The people at the beach were not attending the air show. When you attend an airshow you are at least somewhat aware of the possible danger if an aircraft has an emergency and could crash near your location or even at your location. The people at the beach were not there to watch the airshow so they were not knowingly putting themselves in potential danger of a crashing airplane. It was the idiot TBM pilot who decided to land his aircraft in the middle of a bunch of people swimming at that beach instead of simply landing slightly farther off shore who knowingly put those innocent lives in danger. Don't tell me he couldn't have simply changed his heading by one or two degrees to do so because he could have.
@@SecondLifeDesigner you never know if your plane flips when ditching.. thus it was a good decison to land along the beach as close as possible so if you flip at least some people are there to help quite quickly.. But in a scenario like this you only have seconds to decide and maybe he just did not see the people in the water before..
G, day Juan from Blancolirio Channel. Writing from Sydney, Australia. Disappointing to see the WWII plane entering the saltwater. I was wondering about salvage: * crane and truck * drag it by the tail or nose It will be interesting to read the report into way the plane could not maintain flight. 🌏🇭🇲
Great update Juan. That airspace box sounds a lot like the CNE show in Toronto. As I recall surface to 10,000’ depending on your act along the waterfront bounded by Billy Bishop airport and Sunnyside. Breakwaters, cement and rocks for a lot of the shoreline and colder water too so I’d rather ditch at your show. I do wonder as (literally) a Monday morning QB at the proximity to the beach for the splash and would be interested to hear the pilot’s account. That was damn close to a couple of those swimmers. Not that he didn’t have a couple things on the go at the time.
I don't know if they still have it but a crop dusting company Farm Air just off Highway 99 on Riego Rd near Pleasant Grove, CA had a fully operational TBM
TICO (Titusville/Cocoa) airport is in Titusville, where the Valiant Air Command is based. Pronounced "tie co", as in TICO Belle. Both COI and TICO are closer than CCSFS, shuttle runway, and Patrick AFB is a ways south. Reported that he was near Patrick AFB, just offshore from the runway! Great reporting, Juan! Many thanks!
JB thanks a fantastic breakdown. Yeah I saw the video of the TBM recovery. It was painful to watch the bird getting "mauled". ☹ Not being the expert, I was wondering why they just wouldn't lift the TBM vertically out of the water. Anyway, thanks again and safe drive home. 🤟🏽🖖🏽
Multiple reasons. One, the wave action is constant. With that comes extreme difficulty getting straps under it since it was sitting on the sand and always moving making it very dangerous for a diving/strapping crew.. Time is of the essence and the waves themselves are pounding the aircraft. If you are thinking helicopter, well the winds at the shore are nearly always blowing, gusting, and unpredictable. That makes for dangerous conditions. Then the aircraft is full of water so it is all that much more heavy. Back to the wave action and you have the water pushing back and forth making the aircraft a moving object which will be a swinging object as soon as it is off the sand, but still in the water pulling on the helo. It's just too dangerous. You can hear the gusty winds in the audio, and see things blowing around. And the winds are what drives the waves.
What better way to show aviating skill than to ditch an aircraft in the surf, and walk away? I'm confident that airframe will fly again. Grumman built them tough. They were, after all, carrier-based aircraft, so they had to be built like brick shi, I mean, restrooms!
I flew the DC3 in the mid 80’s and over 1400 hrs , we had at least 12 engine failures. They took a number of forms, but generally a momentary brrppphhh occurred in the engine rhythm. In most cases we dropped valves, caused by fatigue failure between the valve stem and the seat. Once a complete cylinder came adrift due to the cylinder/ crankcase studs failing.....the engine sounded slightly unusual in the descent after a “hiccup “ and sounded like a steam engine as we taxied in. My Captain sent me to check once we were on stand, and at first it was difficult to spot the problem....until I realised I could see quite a gap between the cylinder and crankcase. Stepping back about 20 feet , the cowling was oval !!! I suppose this is to be expected when operating vintage aircraft and engines.
I'm glad no one got hurt I hope you're doing well I see there's a little like behind you that is nice good video good information thanks again God bless🙏🛩
Great coverage Juan. I have flown and worked on the west coat for decades and MANY unfortunate Beavers and 185s ended up wet and are still flying years later. So hopefully they will flush it quick and get on a rebuild.
I'm sure the pilot was happy to swim away from this landing...and with his headset no less. Hoping this airplane can be saved. Excellent analysis as always, Juan. Didn't know you raced biplanes at Reno either!
Locally for our air shows, we have "ditching zones" set up. No go zones where planes are allowed to ditch in the water if there is a problem. and of course, these ditch areas always seem to get... overrun with boaters and swimmers. I was sitting at the edge of one of these crash zones and i swear, as soon as coast guard or police chase one boat out, another 2 boats zip in. We even had marker boys set out in the box, big red nogo markers.
@@bobroberts2371 honestly, i'm not even sure if that would solve the problem. These idiots race in to get better pictures, to "see the show better" ignoring the navigational boyes, police AND coast guard. Live fire might just make MORE zip in to see whats going on or "film" other boats getting shot for social media.
@@oldmech619 But he didn't kill anyone. Drivers kill more people than pilots do. Life is a calculated risk. By swimming in the ocean they are taking calculated risk of being bitten by a shark, or pulled under by a rip current, or drown, or killed in a car crash on the way to/from the beach. The pilot has as much right to live as anyone on the beach.
@@martinr1834 You implied it. Nor did you say anything about ditching further from the beach, so there is no possible way i could have understood that is what you were thinking. If you notice his landing, he was clearly maneuvering with swimmers in mind. Easy to criticize in hindsight, when he had mere moments to react to an unexpected and life threatening situation, and he had to quickly commit to landing somewhere and pull it off successfully in very short order. Having been in such situations, you really don't have much time to think about every contingency and possible outcome, you have to act and sort it out later if you survive. You hope you make the right decision, but no one is perfect. Demanding perfection from anyone is unacceptable. He was more thoughtful of the swimmers than most drivers are of other cars and pedestrians.
@@SoloRenegade Clearly the pilot did NOT maneuver with swimmers in mind. Pilot choose his path and line into the water. Had he done so with swimmers in mind he would have ditched at least 10m further out. This argument is pointless, as only insults are traded but i'll say this: The pilot got lucky he didn't hit those swimmers. The outcome would have been no different a few more meters away from the shore, and no greater risk to the pilot, maybe the plane, but that should not have been a higher priority. Technically a good ditching, but that's it. 8:36
Pete, I have been in aviation all my life. The biggest goal has always been on Safety. Pilots have always been in forefront of doing the Right Thing. This TBM pilot did everything Wrong. He was told he trailing smoke prior to his engine failure and He didn’t Divert and make a precautionary landing. In his negligence, he severely damaged an rare aviation treasure. Endangerment of innocent civilians should never be tolerated.
@@SoloRenegade No doubt. But as Juan Brown said on his blancolirio channel. , he should have diverted and landed the moment the B-25 in the flight noticed he was trailing smoke.
@@epsilonsilver7286 That is a fair criticism, and it will surely be discussed, and hopefully people will learn from that and that more people recognize the situation and make such decisions sooner. But no one is perfect, and for people to expect perfection in the heat of the moment is unfair.
Thank you for your analysis. I'm a lover of WW2 aircrafts. I was wondering if it was possible to save after it's been in salt water and sand. It would be a miracle for sure. But sounds like it's a "no". But anyway Thank You. Mike
Thanks for the update. Your insight on this stuff is awesome! These old planes take a lot of maintenance, maybe a little more oversight of these planes and the people that are maintaining them is in order? Thank god there are volunteers to keep these planes going but, maybe it isn’t financially feasible and shortcuts are taken? Thank god nobody was hurt.
I drive by PAFB every day and got to see the TBM on the flatbed, wings folded.. looks better than I expected.. But the dragging definitely took some paint off the tail boom.. And a big LED sign on A1A nb, 'NO STOPPING'
I’m not at all surprised that this happened with this particular outfit, but I am surprised that it was the TBM and not the B25 that had an issue. I was fortunate enough to visit the museum in early 2020 when they had all of these lovely aircraft out and were flying them, but I was troubled by the cavalier attitude taken by the staff in regards to maintenance. Specifically, when the B25 fired up, the engines sounded rough. Think of a car backfiring, but on a radial engine. It sounded as though firecrackers were coming out of the exhaust, not the smoother sound that you would normally associate with these engines. When I asked one of the maintainers, I was told that it was normal for that airplane. In speaking with a different maintainer, he let on that they’d been having problems with one of the engines in that it would run for about and hour and then shutdown. They weren’t able to figure out why, it was just accepted that the engine would probably shut down and the airplane would come back single engine. It was then that I knew I would never be brave enough to ride in any vintage warbird.
Thanks for the update Juan, please keep us posted of anything more that comes to light on this one!!!! It's such a shame to see such warbirds meet their final fate in this fashion...to think of what it must've been put through in its days of action, to last this lovingly long via the volunteer restorians it's a true shame to see it ditch...but, I guess the alternative ending could've been much much worse, and credit to the pilot in this instance, bringing her down in the controlled and safe fashion in which he did. Cheers from Aus!!!!
Was jumping the Golden Knights at an air show at Columbus AFB years ago from a UH-60 from an altitude of 12.5. Of course it was summer and very hot on the ground. Wasn’t expecting to be at altitude very long so no jackets or cold weather gear. And of course the doors were open and everything taped up to prevent any possible snags even for a HALO. While we were climbing up, an A-10 was going to do their part and other aircraft were set to do some other parts. Well, the A-10 had an engine fire and had to land which tied up the resources on the runway for at least a half hour. Air boss wouldn’t let us descend because other aircraft were orbiting below us waiting to land. Needless to say, we liked to have froze waiting for the show to resume and I was never so happy to let the jumpers go. They weren’t really dressed for an extended stay at 12.5 either, so I’m sure they were just as ready to get out too.
Back in about 1967 a TBM avenger operating as a fire fighting tanker went down in an apricot orchard about a mile shy of the airport in Hollister California, a CDF base. I was only about eight years old and my dad drove by, right next to Highway 25 as you go into Hollister. Now that is row crop. The TBM lined up between the rows of apricot trees and put her down OK, but certainly it was a hard landing because those trees are some what Stout and the wings got ripped off, but the fuselage was intact, and although injured the pilot survived. Seems like he did the best he could given the situation. At that time there was orchards all around and no open fields, only the runway which he couldn’t get to because of engine failure.
Yeah, but it was already soaked in seconds. It will need a complete tear down and full restore removing all remnants of corrosive salt. That means even every single rivet.
@@JeffCounsil-rp4qv - I'm fully aware of that. Even though its salt water exposure was brief it will be almost impossible to restore to flying condition.
Excellent video. Glad to have your videos under total Covid19 lockdown in my part of the world. One sentence and one knows you really know what you´re talking about. Refreshing (no pun intended )...
Wow, the photo's from the B-25 are worse than I thought possible in 2021. If I did not already know it was a TBM it might take me a while to guess. I could not say I seen smoke if I could not be sure if there was a TBM. It appears the photo's taken were from the B-25 Turret and that was something I was most interested in.
I had an engine fail near COI, which was probably closer than all the airports you cite. Fortunately I had two engines, so I could choose COI. The beach was the least worst option given where the pilot realised he had a problem.
For anyone who has not seen these TBMs/Avengers up close, they are huge compared to a T-6 or any of the classic WWII war bird fighters. At least that's my memory...one year one flew in for our little "Airport Day" in Boulder, Colorado.
@blancolirio Hi Juan, just checking in. Hope all is well with you and yours. You might consider doing a flight over the new dam now that it's been awhile.
That is funny, nearly 50 years ago, but I can tell you this, more than 60 years ago US Air Force fighters could fly entirely autonomously and complete their mission to intercept enemy bombers using ground control radar. I worked on the avionics of these amazing F106 Delta darts in the late 70s. We are long past overdue on complete automation of flying for civilian airlines and most military operations as well. As for the civilian aspect of aviation, the screwball pilots union and the idiot airplane manufacturers have combined to retard the advance of what should be now complete automation, you know, I’m talking about drone airlines. They are totally screwing us because there aren’t enough truly expert pilots that can handle a tough situation when it happens. And the designers of these planes are complete idiots, I will give you an example. Watch the recent 777 engine explosions on this Barry channel. In both cases that I saw, none of the pilots knew the engine Had blown up for at least 30 seconds, and they almost lost total control of the airplane because of this delay. The designers of these airplanes are so stupid that they do not have video cameras showing pictures of the engines front and back as viewed from the fuselage. How goddamn hard would that be to do? Review these flight accident videos, and in every case when the engine blows up or comes unspooled, or sometimes completely falls off of the airplane, in almost every case the airline pilots don’t know what the hell just happened. Then there is massive confusion. With automation there is no confusion and no significant delay. 90% of the time in an airplane crash it is total pilot error. Another way to say this is that as soon as we get rid of these pilots airline travel will be 10 times safer with 10 times less deaths. This is not trivial.
Eastern Woods: I don’t think you understands automation and controlling system theory. In every situation the well designed Control system out performs the human. There are no exceptions to this. Crosswinds and gusts are no problem for a well designed auto pilot landing and takeoff system. The system will make the right decision sooner and carry out the correct control activities faster than any human ever could, even Chuck Yeager. Yep, even Chuck Yeager.
Luther Blissett: MCAS is not a good example, it’s a bad example. Anyone, and I mean anyone that knows anything about control system theory knows that an open loop system like MCASS is a horrible control system. You simply do not know what you are talking about
I wonder why they don't use floats, wheels, or axles under the plane when retrieving it from the ocean? Seems like dragging it backwards through the sand and then the sand dunes is probably not the kindest way to yank it up on land? They're likely be a lot of usable parts.
I would imagine it was fitted with air bags for flotation and towed to a marina where a crane could lift it out of the water. It would be interesting to see that process.
Time - the longer it was in the sea the greater the potential for terminal damage. OK, there was some damage done while dragging it out, but that is probably insignificant compared with the damage due to a prolonged swim.
ua-cam.com/video/gLZy9svUAzM/v-deo.html here's how they yanked it out of the ocean. I wonder what FT means on the vertical stabalizer? Flight Terminated?
Radial engines are air cooled, they don't have a water filled radiator like a car, therefore when one is smoking, it's usually oil or hydraulic fluid, in either case the aircraft should immediately return for a landing so the problem can be sorted out.
A few years ago an F4U ditched a couple of miles off the Florida coast due to engine failure and sank in a couple of hundred feet of water. It is now back up and flying after it was recovered almost a week down under. It took them about a year after the recovery to return it back to the air. Now I know a TBM is not as valuable as a Corsair. But seems to me that it could be return to the air, provided the owners have the will and the funds to do so. It does seem that the restoration was not as good as it could have been ( as in, not a show winner). But who am I to judge? But corrosion resistance comes down to how it was primed and corrosion preventative treatment. Seeing how the paint was already coming off the primer. I suspect it was a poor quality paint job and most likely not the correct MIL-SPEC Primer. That could be the deciding issue. Never skimp on the primer, paint and preventative treatments people!
The photos from the B-25 are really hard to see clearly. I took 5 photos of the Avenger. 3 show no smoke 2 do. Looks to me like the failure during the show.
I remember back in 1990 the Oakland Western Aerospace museum had one on display that used to be a fire service tanker. I wonder if this could be the same plane? Does anyone remember that airplane? I really enjoyed your Sun and Fun videos Juan. Thank you!
Threading the eye of the needle with swimmers and no airspeed. No one got hurt and that's the main thing. Maybe there was no alternative but to ditch once, the engine status was obvious.
Wash it in fresh water right away ..I've recovered a laptop that was under salt water ..fresh water wash and then 5 days in hot sun before turning it on ..worked perfectly
Just want to say -- prior to COVID I had little if any interest in aviation. I started watching your videos because I had extra time on my hands and I'm hooked. Your command of the subject matter, and your ability to explain it to laypersons like me sets you apart from the other aviation UA-camrs. I also appreciate your commitment to factual integrity.
I highly recommend that you go back and look at Juan's Oroville Dam reporting if you have not already. The reporting was amazing work.
I agree with Ken. Go back in Juan's videos to the Oroville Dam incident. Juan is a certified reporter. (However you phrase that!) And he is dedicated to truth. And doing a good job for the public, be they flyers or not.
(Juan's aviation background is long and amazing!)
Well stated.
I agree, Gretchen! I'm always up for learning something new, and over the time I've been watching Juan's webcasts, I think I understand things related to aviation.
Pete has taught me something also:
Aviate
Navigate
Communicate. 🦊🙂😊🦌
Ditto.
So true about radial engines and something happening without pilot knowledge of it.
1985, flying B-17 Sentimental Journey as Crew Chief. Flying from Tulsa, OK to Mesa, Az. Doing one of my regular rounds of the aircraft caught a glimpse of what I thought was oil smoke. The sun's position and our course made it invisible till the wing lifted just so to see it. Back into the cockpit I went and via hand signals told them we had one smoking. So they caged it and we flew the remaining 45 minutes into Mesa, where it was found we blew a cylinder.
Agree. At its time the Super Constellation was called the best 3 engine airplane in the world.
@@thomasmoeller2961 LOL.. Those horrible Turbo Compound Engines. A mechanics nightmare..
This took place in my greater back yard. The Valiant Air Command is maybe 2 miles away. It's a great organization made up of military pilots and aircraft techs. They got an A-6 which was my brother's first ride back in the El Toro days. He later flew f/a 18s. Those guys at Valiant spend 100s of hours on these. This was a big surprise. As they say in the navy, any crash you can swim away from is a good landing. 🤗
I was fortunate to work an airshow with Bob Hoover. Genuine man.
I shook his hand and he signed a hat for me and said "good for you" after I told him I flew an RV-4. Saw his airshow too. Un frick`n real! He was the master of power management.
My dad was a NAVY mechanic in WWII and this is one of the kinds planes he fixed. There were TBM's by Martin and TBF's by Grumman. Almost identical aircraft. Like comparring a GMC pickup to a Chevy pickip.
Same here, he died from a heart attack when I was less then a year old.
(1900 -1957) RIP dad.
TBM’s were built by General Motors
Love these updates Juan.
"Once any mechanical problems starts, it's unlikely to get better on its own" are words to live by. Interesting to know of the model's history as air tankers and why they don't get used in that role today.
Because they are single engined.
He answered that question in the video, because they are a single engine plane.
Yes, I did watch the video and that's why I said that it's interestING to know about that. I did not write that I would be interestED in knowing. But thanks for making it abundantly clear.
I have been in aviation all my life. The biggest goal has always been on Safety. Pilots have always been in forefront of doing the Right Thing. This TBM pilot did everything Wrong. He was told he trailing smoke prior to his engine failure and He didn’t Divert and make a precautionary landing. In his negligence, he severely damaged an rare aviation treasure. Endangerment of innocent civilians should never be tolerated.
@@oldmech619 Now that the record of that pilot is better known , his succession of incidents speaks for itself. That man can't be trusted with rare vintage aircraft and probably not with airplanes in general. At least not with any passengers or flown over populated areas.
Thanks Juan you are very helpful explaining the so called behind the stick point of view of these situations,learning alot!
Words to live by:
"Divert early....Beat the rush!"
A friend of mine who was an aviation enthusiast told me, 'There are old pilots and there are bold pilots. There are not many bold old pilots."
This is how I fly. At the first hint of anything amiss I’m looking to get on the ground to sort it out. Get there itis is very real! Fly safe y’all!
As an engineer, my favorite may have to be the "Mechanical issues typically do not tend to get better as time goes on." Truer words were never spoken. Could have used that in a few reports to management.
"I would rather be down here wishing I was up there, than up there wishing I was down here"
@@ericprzekaza3275 it's old bold, but thanks for sharing. That was old when the Wrights were both alive.
The pilot did an amazing job avoiding those people in the water to keep his Bose headsets safe!
As he should, those Bose headsets are pricey.
@cabdolla yeah i couldn't live with myself if I put my bose headset at undue risk. it didn't ask to be in an accident.
No, he didn’t! He was supposed to be at LEAST 500’ out, past the buoys in the water , where there are NO People!
Thanks Juan for the update. If they dismantled it right away and spray it it can be saved we would while I was stationed in Alaska have cocky young pilots that wanted to land the chinook helicopter in the ocean is hated it because all the floors had to come up all the landing gear taken apart resealed, bearings cleaned and repacked it was a timely process. Love all you do Juan keep up the great work. God bless you and your family.
THe difference is that Chinooks were built to land on water, so the electronics and other important stuff are sealed. TBMs weren't built to land on water, so everything touched by saltwater will be ruined.
Great water landing--he can wade back to the beach....Oh and, he saved the head set;)
His shirt was still dry clambering out
I don’t know...I agree with you but let’s be honest, he also landed that close to shore to save that bird. I’m glad he survived and that the plane was recovered, but his decision to ‘land’ so close to spectators was a dangerous (maybe even selfish?) I believe he was skillful but also ultimately lucky that he didn’t hit, injure or kill anyone.
@@Av-vd3wk selfishness is actually a virtue, if understood properly.
His headset is expensive, and likely wouldn't be covered by the insurance. Once down and safe, no sense in throwing away valuable resources.
@Rich Wightman The world needs John Galt right now ;)
Juan, The TBM is very restorable. The sooner they flush the airframe the better but real damage from salt water takes a while to manifest itself. I remember chasing that stuff on the carrier. Much worse aircraft have been restored to flying status. The Valiant Air Command is starting a donation program for the restoration. That's not o their website yet but it was in an interview piece I read.
IM PRETTY SURE SHES DONE ...WHO CAN TRUST ANY SYSTEM THAT WAS SALT WASHED .....SORRY THE COST WOULD BE BEYOND COMPREHENSION.
@@craigbielsky115 Nope. It takes months to sometimes years for saltwater to do damage. Nothing is going to get badly hurt in a week or so before they do a flush. Valiant Air Command has already made the decision to restore it. The metalwork is all very straight forward and the systems get restored along the way. The cost should be under a million spread out of a few years. That's what these historical flight organizations and museums do. They restore aircraft. Airplanes in much worse shape with real saltwater damage have been restored and are fly today.
Here's a perfect case in point
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3057575/Spitfire-shot-Dunkirk-discovered-buried-Calais-beach-40-years-later-auctioned-2-5million-fully-restored.html
BTW your caps lock is stuck.
@@craigbielsky115 Your also forgetting that the entire airframe is primed and painted sailing out moisture. If it was primed in epoxy primer the better it'll be. The seals the metal at a molecular level. Either way salt water never touches the metal.
@@craigbielsky115 You're as clueless as your caps lock key. The only things that are junk are the electronics, and there aren't many of those in a WW2 plane, the engine and the prop. Unless they did a shit job restoring it and didn't use corrosion preventing paints and sealants there should somewhere between little and no corrosion at all to the airframe and sheet metal provided they get it out of the ocean water and flush it thoroughly with fresh water.
Dear pilot: I hope you are right, I hope they restore it, I believe it can be restored also because it’s not in the water for very long and they really need to wash it down thoroughly.
Thanks for the update, hopefully it will fly again . Greetings from the U.K 👍
Won't fly again. Salt water ruins everything it touches. It might get rinsed off, and put on static display somewhere if it is not further destroyed by the salvagers. In any case it is a complete write off.
@@lynnkramer1211 Not sure how salvagers would get a hold of it. 95% of people on this channel support these old warbirds flying until they crash - so surely people will value them as static displays as well.
@@workingguy6666 The salvagers are the ones pulling it out of the water onto the beach Usually by dragging it across the sand, with no support of any kind. So the belly will have to bear the full weight of the aircraft as it's dragged across sand and rocks.
@@murphsmodels8853 I would still think it could be a static display - I thought he meant that the salvagers would take parts or the entire aircraft and claim it.
There's no reason this airplane can't fly again one day. They recover and restore wrecks in far worse shape than this.
Its a Navy aircraft...bump out the dents, flush with fresh water, perform a QEC, and you are as good as new !
I do feel that ,"relegating it to static display" is a bit premature at this point.Give the old gal a chance to get flushed out with fresh water and dry out before you condemn her!
@@JLange642 she’s toast. Salt water is in everything and ruins way too much for it to be practical to replace it all and make it flight worthy again after dragging it from the water assuming it’s not damaged by waves or the physical removal.
@@ocvegasproperty SHE GONE ......SALT WATER WILL MIGRATE THROUGH ALL THE WIRING AND ELECTRICAL.....IT WOULD NEED COMPLETE REWIRE AND ELECTRICAL REPLACED AND NEVER COULD BE TRUSTED SHORT OF FULL REBUILD
@@JLange642 Flush with fresh water is not the answer.Salt will penetrate any cracks in the paint and cause corrosion of the metal over time.The only way to do a decent job is to remove all of the paint.These warbirds were not good planes when they were new due to the wartime rushing of all engineering and production methods.80 years later only the best should be flying,any marginal aircraft should be grounded.
HELLO from las Vegas Nevada, thank you for the information GOD BLESS YOU AND YOUR FAMILY.
The other day I was supposed to fly on a 777 but my flight was delayed and missed my connection. I was so pissed I missed my opportunity to maybe meet the great Juan.
Saw some photos of the recovery. Looks like the fuse got tweaked in front of the tail feathers and the engine cowl and prop of course.
Thanks for the excellent coverage on the TBM ocean ditching. Unfortunate for the plane and pilot. Seeing the TBM brought back some wonderful memories of my getting to ride in one from Norman, Ok to the Lawton, OK airshow back in the 80s.The flight was about 150 miles accompanied by several other warbirds from the CAF. Col Tom Thomas was the owner and pilot. We did a steep dive and high speed, low pass across the airport with other G inducing maneuvers. For me it was a grand, once in a lifetime event. I also got to ride in the airshow in a B25 named the Iron Laden Maiden, including a simulated bombing run. I was a news videographer back then. Thanks again for all your excellent aviation analysis.
Amazing amount of knowledge and insight in just 9 minutes. Thanks!
Their was a Corsair years ago that ditched around that area and it was rebuilt.Start the fresh water rinse in every place you can get the fresh water to.It will be a matter of money but it can fly again.
More than once in the airtanker business we called smoke trailing from
a DC-6/7 -7's have Power Return Turbines on the engines if a seal broke you have a nice smoke system and oil disposal. To this day I watch takeoff and landings just to make sure ...
Like you always said if you’re going to hit the ground hit something flat soft and cheap.
All three boxes were checked on that. Long as there’s no injuries it’s all good.
Water is not soft. You might as well hit concrete...
Not all is good if the lesson to not land in an area full of people when you can easily land just a bit farther off shore where there are no people isn't learned. There would have been no more danger to the pilot had he landed just a bit farther off shore. He did not need to put all those innocent lives in danger.
@@Penfold101 Hit concrete and tell me that 💩 again. Ask the pilot which he would rather have after he has hit it.
You don’t see people jumping off of diving boards into a dry pool
I have hit the concrete before in a plane on an emergency landing not fun and chance of fire goes up extremely high
Really?? So hitting bathers on the beach could be "Cheap".. Prove that..
@@golfbravowhiskey8669 Obviously I’m being a bit facetious, but calling water soft is just ridiculous. It’s incompressible, and above certain speeds you may as well hit concrete. He only has to get the angle or speed wrong and he’ll either rip the gear off or the deceleration rate will crush the aircraft. There’s a reason one of the engines was ripped off the aircraft in the Hudson River landing. You only have to watch the video to see how quickly the TBM slows when it hits the water - it’s not solid, but it doesn’t compress and there isn’t a huge amount of difference between the two. It definitely isn’t ‘soft’. Try jumping off a 20 metre diving board and hitting the water spread eagle - see how soft it is then...
There is a regional airport about two miles from my house. Heard this plane fly over it 2-3 times yesterday as the flight paths go right over my house.
He didn’t need to land at the Cape or Patrick’s AFB.
That being said I have no idea why he didn’t just land at the closest airport which is the one that’s near me. He literally made 2-3 passes lined up with the runway then went south and ditched in the water.
Name of the airport is Space Coast Regional Airport in Titusville.
@@South_0f_Heaven_ My favorite Airport in FSX and also KTTS Nasa Landing Facility when I got new add on planes. FSX flight video in my UA-cam channel
You can cut the apprehension in his voice with a butter knife. Like always great video.
Thank you for the shots from the B-25, to bad he didn't set it down earlier. Safe travels, STOL vids were great.
easy to second guess after the fact. By the time he committed to landing on the beach, the earlier spot may not have been an option. Thing's happen fast and you don't always have time to make the best decisions.
Bobby Johnson flew a Radial back from Germany shot to pieces with whole cylinders blown off...but it was a Pratt & Whitney.
0:01 Operation Tidal Wave , Ploiești, Romania
He didn’t risk mowing down civilians either. By the way I love Robert Johnson‘s book, “thunderbolt.“
The best part to me was when he got in a tough dogfight with a very good German pilot. Johnson eventually got the upper hand and shot up that German fighter plane and the pilot tried to bail out. Johnson knew this pilot was going to survive to fight again and most certainly kill other allied pilots and crew. As the pilot began to get out of the cockpit, Johnson flashes his 50 calibers, a short burst, to make the pilot get back in the cockpit, and the pilot did. Johnson made that Nazi son of a bitch ride that doomed fighter plane into the ground and die. The more dead Nazis the better.
@@steveperreira5850 Note that German military was not the same as German Nazi. Most solders and pilots were not Nazi.
As usual, great job with your analysis and comments. Very useful. Saludos !!!
Thanks Juan for all your updates great information and enjoy all your videos!!!!
If I’m the pilot, I wouldn’t want to be too far off the beach in case I needed to be rescued. But don’t want to be too close to beach and risk hitting a beach goer or swimmer. Seems he did pretty good job of it.
Shark bait 😬
I don’t know...I agree with you but let’s be honest, he also landed that close to shore to save that bird. (For those that don’t know, this plane had been under work for the past 20 or so years and had just been completed ✅ about a year or so ago) - I’m glad he survived and that the plane was recovered, but his decision to ‘land’ so close to spectators was a dangerous (maybe even selfish?) decision. I believe he was skillful but also ultimately lucky that he didn’t hit, injure or kill anyone. IF you are the pilot in command, you (better) understand and KNOW the inherent risks involved. That said, if things go bad for you, yes, do the best you can to preserve your life along with any crew/passengers. BUT....B-U-T...If saving yourself then knowingly involves the potential death of innocent bystanders, then what you do, without question, is you accept the fate you may have been assigned. You abandon the hope of saving yourself in the rightful understanding that your tragic death won’t kill innocent others...WHY THEY HELL DO I NEED TO EXPLAIN THIS? Good Lord, have mercy on us all...
@@Av-vd3wk Is it not selfish to want the pilot risk his own life more than necessary? I'm a pilot, and as of yet have not learned to swim, I dread ditching, and avoid needing to until i learn to swim. But in his shoes, landing in deeper water could be fatal for me.
@@Av-vd3wkYou are not a pilot nor have you been in an emergency situation....we NEVER care about the plane (in fact we hate it at the time) all we worry about is not killing anyone then ourselves but never the plane...passengers and pedestrians and pilot F___ the POS plane.
@@SoloRenegade I hope the FAA looks closely into this near fatal crash as to the endangerment of innocent people. No pilot has that right. If the pilot could not swim he should have been wearing a inflatable life vest and there are always a lot of boats that could have facilitate a simple rescue. No excuse to cause avoidable deaths.
Pilot did a great job getting that bird down safely. Didn't stall, didn't flip, and didn't hit any swimmers. Can't get a much better outcome than that under the circumstances.
glad nobody was hurt. That seems mighty close to bystanders however.
@Luther Blissett Then let's call them byswimmers. Happy now?
@@horrido666 You are missing the point. The people at the beach were not attending the air show. When you attend an airshow you are at least somewhat aware of the possible danger if an aircraft has an emergency and could crash near your location or even at your location. The people at the beach were not there to watch the airshow so they were not knowingly putting themselves in potential danger of a crashing airplane. It was the idiot TBM pilot who decided to land his aircraft in the middle of a bunch of people swimming at that beach instead of simply landing slightly farther off shore who knowingly put those innocent lives in danger. Don't tell me he couldn't have simply changed his heading by one or two degrees to do so because he could have.
@@SecondLifeDesigner you never know if your plane flips when ditching.. thus it was a good decison to land along the beach as close as possible so if you flip at least some people are there to help quite quickly.. But in a scenario like this you only have seconds to decide and maybe he just did not see the people in the water before..
@@horrido666 😂😂
@@SecondLifeDesigner Wuda, cuda, shuda, the road to hell is paved with good intentions....
G, day Juan from Blancolirio Channel. Writing from Sydney, Australia.
Disappointing to see the WWII plane entering the saltwater.
I was wondering about salvage:
* crane and truck
* drag it by the tail or nose
It will be interesting to read the report into way the plane could not maintain flight.
🌏🇭🇲
Greetings from Puerto Rico. Thanks for your insights on flying and aircrafts. José Antonio.
Great update Juan. That airspace box sounds a lot like the CNE show in Toronto. As I recall surface to 10,000’ depending on your act along the waterfront bounded by Billy Bishop airport and Sunnyside. Breakwaters, cement and rocks for a lot of the shoreline and colder water too so I’d rather ditch at your show.
I do wonder as (literally) a Monday morning QB at the proximity to the beach for the splash and would be interested to hear the pilot’s account. That was damn close to a couple of those swimmers. Not that he didn’t have a couple things on the go at the time.
I don't know if they still have it but a crop dusting company Farm Air just off Highway 99 on Riego Rd near Pleasant Grove, CA had a fully operational TBM
TICO (Titusville/Cocoa) airport is in Titusville, where the Valiant Air Command is based. Pronounced "tie co", as in TICO Belle. Both COI and TICO are closer than CCSFS, shuttle runway, and Patrick AFB is a ways south. Reported that he was near Patrick AFB, just offshore from the runway!
Great reporting, Juan! Many thanks!
That prop will look good hanging in somebodies office/hanger. Always interesting, thanks!
That prop is absolutely huge. I'd would say a hanger would have to be it's resting place.
Pity it's bent - 8:46. &. 8:56
I see the spring has arrive in the background
Great update
Wish we had green here. Nope it snowed 4 inches here last night. What's spring?
Thanks Juan for all your updates
My man Juan, you are the Air Boss on youtoob!.
JB thanks a fantastic breakdown. Yeah I saw the video of the TBM recovery. It was painful to watch the bird getting "mauled". ☹
Not being the expert, I was wondering why they just wouldn't lift the TBM vertically out of the water.
Anyway, thanks again and safe drive home. 🤟🏽🖖🏽
I'll explain in an update...
Multiple reasons. One, the wave action is constant. With that comes extreme difficulty getting straps under it since it was sitting on the sand and always moving making it very dangerous for a diving/strapping crew.. Time is of the essence and the waves themselves are pounding the aircraft. If you are thinking helicopter, well the winds at the shore are nearly always blowing, gusting, and unpredictable. That makes for dangerous conditions. Then the aircraft is full of water so it is all that much more heavy. Back to the wave action and you have the water pushing back and forth making the aircraft a moving object which will be a swinging object as soon as it is off the sand, but still in the water pulling on the helo. It's just too dangerous. You can hear the gusty winds in the audio, and see things blowing around. And the winds are what drives the waves.
What better way to show aviating skill than to ditch an aircraft in the surf, and walk away? I'm confident that airframe will fly again. Grumman built them tough. They were, after all, carrier-based aircraft, so they had to be built like brick shi, I mean, restrooms!
@Luther Blissett Yes, under contract with Grumman.
@Luther Blissett Agreed.
In the popular book " We Were Soldier's Once " there is a great scene with two Huey pilots spotting each other .
And...???
I like turtles...
The final photographic sequence is very beautiful.
I flew the DC3 in the mid 80’s and over 1400 hrs , we had at least 12 engine failures. They took a number of forms, but generally a momentary brrppphhh occurred in the engine rhythm. In most cases we dropped valves, caused by fatigue failure between the valve stem and the seat. Once a complete cylinder came adrift due to the cylinder/ crankcase studs failing.....the engine sounded slightly unusual in the descent after a “hiccup “ and sounded like a steam engine as we taxied in. My Captain sent me to check once we were on stand, and at first it was difficult to spot the problem....until I realised I could see quite a gap between the cylinder and crankcase. Stepping back about 20 feet , the cowling was oval !!! I suppose this is to be expected when operating vintage aircraft and engines.
I'm glad no one got hurt I hope you're doing well I see there's a little like behind you that is nice good video good information thanks again God bless🙏🛩
Greetings from Africa my favourite aviation channel hands down
Nice Breitling hat, Juan. I’ve worn one since 2006, recently replacing an original Cockpit to a day-date Aviator 8.
Thank you Juan.
Quite a show!
Great coverage Juan. I have flown and worked on the west coat for decades and MANY unfortunate Beavers and 185s ended up wet and are still flying years later. So hopefully they will flush it quick and get on a rebuild.
I'm sure the pilot was happy to swim away from this landing...and with his headset no less. Hoping this airplane can be saved. Excellent analysis as always, Juan. Didn't know you raced biplanes at Reno either!
Cool
Locally for our air shows, we have "ditching zones" set up. No go zones where planes are allowed to ditch in the water if there is a problem.
and of course, these ditch areas always seem to get... overrun with boaters and swimmers. I was sitting at the edge of one of these crash zones and i swear, as soon as coast guard or police chase one boat out, another 2 boats zip in. We even had marker boys set out in the box, big red nogo markers.
B-17 , live ammo with tracers, problem solved.
@@bobroberts2371 honestly, i'm not even sure if that would solve the problem. These idiots race in to get better pictures, to "see the show better" ignoring the navigational boyes, police AND coast guard.
Live fire might just make MORE zip in to see whats going on or "film" other boats getting shot for social media.
@@jenniferstewarts4851 said " "film" other boats getting shot for social media. " All the while not realizing they will be next, got it. Blea.
@@bobroberts2371 You realize, this actually happens now a days, during mass shooting events, people actually pull out their cellphones to film it...
@@jenniferstewarts4851 Yep, have a look at this pre cell phone vid. " Walter Rörhl " on the channel " Audi France "
Glad the pilot is OK. Thank God nobody on the beach was hurt!
The pilot damn near Killed the simmers. No pilot has the right to do that.
@@oldmech619 But he didn't kill anyone. Drivers kill more people than pilots do. Life is a calculated risk. By swimming in the ocean they are taking calculated risk of being bitten by a shark, or pulled under by a rip current, or drown, or killed in a car crash on the way to/from the beach. The pilot has as much right to live as anyone on the beach.
@@martinr1834 So you think the pilot deserved to die?
@@martinr1834 You implied it. Nor did you say anything about ditching further from the beach, so there is no possible way i could have understood that is what you were thinking. If you notice his landing, he was clearly maneuvering with swimmers in mind. Easy to criticize in hindsight, when he had mere moments to react to an unexpected and life threatening situation, and he had to quickly commit to landing somewhere and pull it off successfully in very short order. Having been in such situations, you really don't have much time to think about every contingency and possible outcome, you have to act and sort it out later if you survive. You hope you make the right decision, but no one is perfect. Demanding perfection from anyone is unacceptable. He was more thoughtful of the swimmers than most drivers are of other cars and pedestrians.
@@SoloRenegade Clearly the pilot did NOT maneuver with swimmers in mind. Pilot choose his path and line into the water. Had he done so with swimmers in mind he would have ditched at least 10m further out. This argument is pointless, as only insults are traded but i'll say this: The pilot got lucky he didn't hit those swimmers. The outcome would have been no different a few more meters away from the shore, and no greater risk to the pilot, maybe the plane, but that should not have been a higher priority. Technically a good ditching, but that's it. 8:36
Pete, I have been in aviation all my life. The biggest goal has always been on Safety. Pilots have always been in forefront of doing the Right Thing. This TBM pilot did everything Wrong. He was told he trailing smoke prior to his engine failure and He didn’t Divert and make a precautionary landing. In his negligence, he severely damaged an rare aviation treasure. Endangerment of innocent civilians should never be tolerated.
The video of the landing shows the pilot pulled up to extend over a swimmer before settling into the water.
My gut feeling is the pilot was super focused on the swimmers.
@@epsilonsilver7286 He's a good pilot and was scanning his intended landing zone all the way down.
There will, of course, be questions why he ditched so close to the beach and swimmers but it looked like he had a plan and executed it perfectly.
@@SoloRenegade No doubt. But as Juan Brown said on his blancolirio channel. , he should have diverted and landed the moment the B-25 in the flight noticed he was trailing smoke.
@@epsilonsilver7286 That is a fair criticism, and it will surely be discussed, and hopefully people will learn from that and that more people recognize the situation and make such decisions sooner. But no one is perfect, and for people to expect perfection in the heat of the moment is unfair.
I was there on Sunday and just heard about this. Sorry to loose the plane! Glad the pilot is OK!
So sad!
Thank you Juan.
Great post. Surprised the swimmers sem to just watch...
Would be impressive for any of them to make it back to their towel with five seconds' notice.
WHAT COULD THEY DO IT WAS IN THE WATER BEFORE YOU CAN SAY LOOKOUT......
@@craigbielsky115 well ya know, it was an air show, along the beach....what were they on, i want some.
Thank you for your analysis. I'm a lover of WW2 aircrafts. I was wondering if it was possible to save after it's been in salt water and sand. It would be a miracle for sure. But sounds like it's a "no". But anyway Thank You. Mike
I like the TBM, I made a scale model of it in my youth, and I am 62 now.
Another outstanding explanation. Please keep us posted
Thanks for the update. Your insight on this stuff is awesome! These old planes take a lot of maintenance, maybe a little more oversight of these planes and the people that are maintaining them is in order? Thank god there are volunteers to keep these planes going but, maybe it isn’t financially feasible and shortcuts are taken? Thank god nobody was hurt.
I drive by PAFB every day and got to see the TBM on the flatbed, wings folded.. looks better than I expected.. But the dragging definitely took some paint off the tail boom.. And a big LED sign on A1A nb, 'NO STOPPING'
I’m not at all surprised that this happened with this particular outfit, but I am surprised that it was the TBM and not the B25 that had an issue. I was fortunate enough to visit the museum in early 2020 when they had all of these lovely aircraft out and were flying them, but I was troubled by the cavalier attitude taken by the staff in regards to maintenance.
Specifically, when the B25 fired up, the engines sounded rough. Think of a car backfiring, but on a radial engine. It sounded as though firecrackers were coming out of the exhaust, not the smoother sound that you would normally associate with these engines. When I asked one of the maintainers, I was told that it was normal for that airplane. In speaking with a different maintainer, he let on that they’d been having problems with one of the engines in that it would run for about and hour and then shutdown. They weren’t able to figure out why, it was just accepted that the engine would probably shut down and the airplane would come back single engine. It was then that I knew I would never be brave enough to ride in any vintage warbird.
"The show must go on" thinking..... see: 909.
Juan, Bob Hoover at reno..... THE Bob Hoover?
Yep. Robert A.
@@blancolirio That's just plain badass.
Thanks for the update
Missed you at the Sun N Fun
It was a great time.
.
Glad he saved his headset.
Thanks for the update Juan, please keep us posted of anything more that comes to light on this one!!!! It's such a shame to see such warbirds meet their final fate in this fashion...to think of what it must've been put through in its days of action, to last this lovingly long via the volunteer restorians it's a true shame to see it ditch...but, I guess the alternative ending could've been much much worse, and credit to the pilot in this instance, bringing her down in the controlled and safe fashion in which he did. Cheers from Aus!!!!
Like that cut out metal logo at the end
Was jumping the Golden Knights at an air show at Columbus AFB years ago from a UH-60 from an altitude of 12.5. Of course it was summer and very hot on the ground. Wasn’t expecting to be at altitude very long so no jackets or cold weather gear. And of course the doors were open and everything taped up to prevent any possible snags even for a HALO. While we were climbing up, an A-10 was going to do their part and other aircraft were set to do some other parts. Well, the A-10 had an engine fire and had to land which tied up the resources on the runway for at least a half hour. Air boss wouldn’t let us descend because other aircraft were orbiting below us waiting to land. Needless to say, we liked to have froze waiting for the show to resume and I was never so happy to let the jumpers go. They weren’t really dressed for an extended stay at 12.5 either, so I’m sure they were just as ready to get out too.
Good demo of a TBM ditching at sea in WW2.
0:01 Operation Tidal Wave , Ploiești, Romania
Back in about 1967 a TBM avenger operating as a fire fighting tanker went down in an apricot orchard about a mile shy of the airport in Hollister California, a CDF base. I was only about eight years old and my dad drove by, right next to Highway 25 as you go into Hollister. Now that is row crop. The TBM lined up between the rows of apricot trees and put her down OK, but certainly it was a hard landing because those trees are some what Stout and the wings got ripped off, but the fuselage was intact, and although injured the pilot survived. Seems like he did the best he could given the situation. At that time there was orchards all around and no open fields, only the runway which he couldn’t get to because of engine failure.
I'm glad to know that they got the plane out of the saltwater quickly.
I WOULDNT CALL THAT QUICKLY....THAT WAS LONG ENOUGH TO END THIS BIRDS STORY.....
@@craigbielsky115 - Agreed. But it should help with the structural forensics.
Yeah, but it was already soaked in seconds. It will need a complete tear down and full restore removing all remnants of corrosive salt. That means even every single rivet.
@@JeffCounsil-rp4qv - I'm fully aware of that. Even though its salt water exposure was brief it will be almost impossible to restore to flying condition.
Excellent video. Glad to have your videos under total Covid19 lockdown in my part of the world. One sentence and one knows you really know what you´re talking about. Refreshing (no pun intended )...
Wow, the photo's from the B-25 are worse than I thought possible in 2021. If I did not already know it was a TBM it might take me a while to guess. I could not say I seen smoke if I could not be sure if there was a TBM. It appears the photo's taken were from the B-25 Turret and that was something I was most interested in.
Correct- from the turret.
I had an engine fail near COI, which was probably closer than all the airports you cite. Fortunately I had two engines, so I could choose COI. The beach was the least worst option given where the pilot realised he had a problem.
As usual Juan’s is right there on top of the situation
For anyone who has not seen these TBMs/Avengers up close, they are huge compared to a T-6 or any of the classic WWII war bird fighters. At least that's my memory...one year one flew in for our little "Airport Day" in Boulder, Colorado.
@blancolirio
Hi Juan, just checking in. Hope all is well with you and yours. You might consider doing a flight over the new dam now that it's been awhile.
It was difficult to see any smoke from the TBM in the B-25 photos.
Juan. I've been cleaning out dad's place and came across the December 1974 Popular Mechanics. Headline on the over "Coming: Planes Without Pilots"
@Luther Blissett I just saw the headline on the cover. I still prefer Jaun on the flight deck no matter how good a computer or radio control
That is funny, nearly 50 years ago, but I can tell you this, more than 60 years ago US Air Force fighters could fly entirely autonomously and complete their mission to intercept enemy bombers using ground control radar. I worked on the avionics of these amazing F106 Delta darts in the late 70s.
We are long past overdue on complete automation of flying for civilian airlines and most military operations as well.
As for the civilian aspect of aviation, the screwball pilots union and the idiot airplane manufacturers have combined to retard the advance of what should be now complete automation, you know, I’m talking about drone airlines.
They are totally screwing us because there aren’t enough truly expert pilots that can handle a tough situation when it happens. And the designers of these planes are complete idiots, I will give you an example.
Watch the recent 777 engine explosions on this Barry channel. In both cases that I saw, none of the pilots knew the engine Had blown up for at least 30 seconds, and they almost lost total control of the airplane because of this delay. The designers of these airplanes are so stupid that they do not have video cameras showing pictures of the engines front and back as viewed from the fuselage. How goddamn hard would that be to do?
Review these flight accident videos, and in every case when the engine blows up or comes unspooled, or sometimes completely falls off of the airplane, in almost every case the airline pilots don’t know what the hell just happened. Then there is massive confusion. With automation there is no confusion and no significant delay.
90% of the time in an airplane crash it is total pilot error.
Another way to say this is that as soon as we get rid of these pilots airline travel will be 10 times safer with 10 times less deaths. This is not trivial.
@@steveperreira5850 until you have a gusty cross wind landing
Eastern Woods: I don’t think you understands automation and controlling system theory.
In every situation the well designed Control system out performs the human. There are no exceptions to this.
Crosswinds and gusts are no problem for a well designed auto pilot landing and takeoff system. The system will make the right decision sooner and carry out the correct control activities faster than any human ever could, even Chuck Yeager. Yep, even Chuck Yeager.
Luther Blissett: MCAS is not a good example, it’s a bad example. Anyone, and I mean anyone that knows anything about control system theory knows that an open loop system like MCASS is a horrible control system.
You simply do not know what you are talking about
He did a beautiful job on the landing.
I wonder why they don't use floats, wheels, or axles under the plane when retrieving it from the ocean? Seems like dragging it backwards through the sand and then the sand dunes is probably not the kindest way to yank it up on land? They're likely be a lot of usable parts.
I would imagine it was fitted with air bags for flotation and towed to a marina where a crane could lift it out of the water. It would be interesting to see that process.
Time - the longer it was in the sea the greater the potential for terminal damage. OK, there was some damage done while dragging it out, but that is probably insignificant compared with the damage due to a prolonged swim.
ua-cam.com/video/gLZy9svUAzM/v-deo.html here's how they yanked it out of the ocean. I wonder what FT means on the vertical stabalizer? Flight Terminated?
@@billlowe6883 Usually it's the initials of the squadron or base the aircraft is/was assigned to. In this case Fleet Air Service Squadron 200.
Great Update Juan thanks for sharing
Radial engines are air cooled, they don't have a water filled radiator like a car, therefore when one is smoking, it's usually oil or hydraulic fluid, in either case the aircraft should immediately return for a landing so the problem can be sorted out.
Nice short field landing!
A few years ago an F4U ditched a couple of miles off the Florida coast due to engine failure and sank in a couple of hundred feet of water. It is now back up and flying after it was recovered almost a week down under. It took them about a year after the recovery to return it back to the air. Now I know a TBM is not as valuable as a Corsair. But seems to me that it could be return to the air, provided the owners have the will and the funds to do so. It does seem that the restoration was not as good as it could have been ( as in, not a show winner). But who am I to judge? But corrosion resistance comes down to how it was primed and corrosion preventative treatment. Seeing how the paint was already coming off the primer. I suspect it was a poor quality paint job and most likely not the correct MIL-SPEC Primer. That could be the deciding issue. Never skimp on the primer, paint and preventative treatments people!
Thanks
Gotta thank God no one was hurt
My guess is a cracked cylinder caused the loss of boost (power) and exhaust smoke.
Thanks for all the updates, Juan. I’m wondering if that Avenger will ever fly again
Always a pleasure To hear from you
Normally it is airplanes, sometimes container ships, this week tunnel boring machines. Next week it is rail. Just kidn around.
The photos from the B-25 are really hard to see clearly. I took 5 photos of the Avenger. 3 show no smoke 2 do. Looks to me like the failure during the show.
White smoke mean burning oil. Losing oil. Careless to continue flying over people like that.
I remember back in 1990 the Oakland Western Aerospace museum had one on display that used to be a fire service tanker. I wonder if this could be the same plane? Does anyone remember that airplane? I really enjoyed your Sun and Fun videos Juan. Thank you!
@Luther Blissett Thank you for your reply. I volunteered at the museum when I lived in the area. Always wondered what happened to it.
I was waiting for the mainstream media to report that the cause of the TBM ditching was because of COVID 19.
Last item on the Ditching Checklist: retrieve headset. Only kidding, he did a very nice job.
Threading the eye of the needle with swimmers and no airspeed. No one got hurt and that's the main thing. Maybe there was no
alternative but to ditch once, the engine status was obvious.
Wash it in fresh water right away ..I've recovered a laptop that was under salt water ..fresh water wash and then 5 days in hot sun before turning it on ..worked perfectly