Cirrus SR20 Crash Conway AR - AQP for GA!
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- Опубліковано 21 лип 2024
- The recent fatal crash of a student pilot at Conway AR highlights the need for AQP (Advanced Qualification Program) style training in GA General Aviation.
LINKS:
Kathryn's Report
www.kathrynsreport.com/2021/06...
General Aviation AQP Flight Review Supplemental Document:
8b23b108-6bf3-40e5-a28c-78696...
The Finer Points Flight Training App:
www.learnthefinerpoints.com/
Patreon:
www.patreon.com/user?u=529500... - Наука та технологія
Seeing a lot of references to AQP in this channel, as well as another famous aviation UA-cam channel (aviation101). I just wanna make sure people understand that AQP has nothing to do with the content of training, or specific maneuvers. AQP is the administrative framework that allows airlines to comply with applicable FARs (121 N&O) in a different way - alternate means of compliance. No disrespect to Juan, or the retired airline pilot that is coaching the young man who runs aviation101, but they are both line pilots, and they are not AQP experts (nor are they required to be), other than end-user familiarity through attending AQP training events required to maintain qualification. I agree that GA training is not meeting the goal it sets off to accomplish, but lets be careful about terminology - AQP is an administrative framework, not a set of maneuvers, or even a style of training. To prove this, not all airlines in the US train their pilots under AQP (Southwest comes to mind - only recurrent training is AQP as of last time I talked to them), however, all pilots in the US train the same maneuvers, as mandated by FAA regulations (part 121). FAA Advisory Circular 120-54A breaks down exactly what AQP is. In case anyone is curious, my qualifications: my team and I run an AQP for a US airline.
Call it anything you want! GA needs a similar program the airlines have developed.
Lets not get wrapped around the axle about terminology just f'ing DO IT!
@@blancolirio I agree 100%. I’ve been studying a lot of different “whatever you wanna call it” since you started blowing the whistle, and man oh man, though I hope I never have to use it, I know a lot more about how to react if I did have a bad day. Keep preaching, brother. You’re gonna save lives.
@@blancolirio Well said Juan. I don't understand the push back by diegus012. Seems to be grandstanding for some reason. That's not helpful in my opinion.
@@blancolirio that's right!!! just fking do it what's it going to take!?!
@@blancolirio I agree 100%. While I work in a part 121 AQP, all my flying is personal GA flying, and as such, this issue concerns me greatly. I brought up the terminology clarification in an effort to direct the conversation towards the important issue: quality flight training. An AQP implementation will bring additional bureaucratic burdens, and the safety improvement is not guaranteed unless the content of the instruction actually changes. In other words, you could conduct the exact same training happening today under an advanced qualification program and not achieve any improvement in safety. It is the academic content that needs to evolve.
Once I go back full time as a flight instructor at a local school in Phoenix, I'll be sure to nail all these topics into the brains of all my students. The rejected takeoff is such an important topic to bring up.
"Engine quits? FLAP boy! FLAP your arms and get right with your god!"
Not only rejected TO procedures but also what happens if you become airborne, what then? What will you do at 300AGL, 500AGL? Personally on a normal air density day and reasonable weather, I know I can make the 180° turn back as long as I’m over 600AGL. I brief myself and passenger on 4 emergency takeoff procedures:
1) Rejected takeoff
2) airborne but enough runway left to land
3) airborne but not enough length left to land on the runway, and not enough altitude to turn back
4) airborne with enough altitude to turn back to the runway
Yes, please make it second nature to them. Drill it into them. If you wake them at 02H45, they must know the procedure without pause. It’s the best way. It works!! 1st thing? Fly the ‘plane!! So many people forget that under pressure, old school was and is a part of instruction.
From the very first flight I took as a student pilot, "Airspeed Alive" was a standard check early on the takeoff roll.
That was under the UKs CAA PPL training regime.
On takeoff roll, I always check the AI repeatedly and call out "airspeed alive" as the indicator progresses to rotation speed, even when flying solo.
@@dbl2269 Even 45 years ago doing my PPL at Rochford, "airspeed showing" was a standard call out.
Same in USA.
Day1,Lesson1, “Airspeed Alive”.From 50 years ago to today.
Hi Juan, Im a baby pilot with about 262 hrs. of SEL time in cessnas and pipers. My flight examiner covered up my 6 pack of guages as I was returning from the flight test portion and asked me if I could land the airplane. He taught me to fly by feel. I was able to safely land the airplane. It is a valuable lesson that has stayed with me and has saved my butt on a couple of occasions. I agree with you its VITALLY important to teach airspeed awareness early on in the GA training syllabus.
Been watching you a long time now and you’ve leveled up. Brilliant work. What a great time to be alive. 30 years ago we had the occasional book. You, Dan, Scott, Mike Patey, Trent Palmer … and I’ll just say others. Fun and informative. I finally feel there’s a real aviation community.
Juan, last night, June 21, at approximately 2200 hrs I was in seat w8 on flight 989 I believe, landing at Tampa out of Dallas. The flight was 2 hours late for leaving Dallas. We were on final from the north approaching the west runway just before touchdown the bottom fell out of the altitude. He immediately throttled up for a go around. During that the pilot apologized for the sudden acceleration. He the wind had suddenly sheared and he had! What impressed me was how quick the decision was made. A first for me!
In my training 40 years ago to be a commercial/ATP pilot we allways call-out airspeed alive at about 40-60 kts even on single engine airplanes.
I've been following a pilot flying a Kodiak in PNG, on every take-off he selects a speed either40 or 50 (knts I think) and a marker by the runway, if that speed isn't reached by that point he briefs to himself the abort take-off procedure. Many of the strips he uses are very small, steeply sloped and surrounded by mountains & jungle. On every flight he passes the speed (before the mark) and calls out "40/50 continue" - even when its an empty plane. (If you think the Husky climbs then the Kodiak is a skyrocket, with empty climb-outs often hitting 2500ft/min with reducing power to keep the speed down so he's got space to make a turn without joining the terrain.) AQP in action.
Guessing its Missionary Bush Pilot? Love his content too.
ua-cam.com/users/NTMApilot
Missionary Bush Pilot, Just watch him ua-cam.com/video/SFpjBYb6-NA/v-deo.html
Ryan, (the Missionary Bush Pilot) is incredibly methodical. I have learned a lot from him and brief emergency takeoff procedures on every single take off because of his example even in the C172.
His WW2 airstrip video was awesome!
He’s very good he will survive his time bush flying.
One you're such a treasure to have in the flying Community I learn more and more every episode. Keep up the good work.
Two - you’re a nice guy.
Standing rule at our airport. NEVER interrupt a pilot during his preflight.
If I'm interrupted, I start again.
The Juan double check lap, and the don’t interrupt a preflight/or start over, are both rules that should be incorporated into aviation. 😉👍
Good rule!
I was taught if you get interrupted in the pre-flight, you start from scratch. The pre-flight is what stands between you and discovering you have an un-airworthy aircraft at an inopportune time.
That's a great rule to have.
I recall my instructor often point out the "feel" and "sound" of the aircraft when approaching stalls or doing landings. His point was you could recognize low airspeed by the mushy feel of the controls.
Cirrus is fly by wire (no feel) also students pilot train to fly airspeed more than attitude. :(
Maybe Cirrus isn’t a good entry level trainer.
Nice to see the Mighty Luscumbe in the background. I'm sure it has been feeling a little bit jealous of late. Great video. You, Dan, and Scott are getting the word out about AQP.
Went to high school with this guy. Genuine and kind guy. Left behind a wife and three children. Tough day in central Arkansas.
Thanks Juan for keeping us so well informed. Prayers for the pilot’s family.
It’s not flying, but I never let anyone talk to me while I’m hooking up and/or pre-tripping. If I get interrupted I just start over.
Juan, enjoy yur channel very much; your experience, grasp of details, interviews with other Fw & Helo pilots..videos from inside yur cockpit over beautiful terrain, training books/software & NTSB acct. reports. Thanks from an old USAF Tempelhof radar arc. Fly safe!🙂
My Dad never solo'd anyone without that pilot demonstrating ability to safely take off, fly and land with the airspeed covered.
Before you question the wisdom of taking off without an airspeed, try to understand it as an opportunity to learn as much as you can.
Unfortunately it sounds like the guy flying the SR did learn as much as he could. And it wasn't enough.
He didn't. At my operation, we didn't solo a student without having covered the ASI & having them land without it until they could do so competently (NBD) and safely. I covered the Altimeter well above pattern altitude _and_ the ASI & taught every student to land in the normal landing zone, at or slightly higher than a normal patterns speed. Again, until it was NBD. A CFI can't prepare a student for every possible scenario. But we can do our best to turn out Aviators instead of Airplane Drivers
We damn well owe it to them. To teach them to deal with as many non-standard circumstances as possible. The inability, in VFR conditions, to safely land an otherwise functional (?) single-engine GA a/c without a working ASI
@@tylerdurden2644 …….. I received my pilot’s lic. In 71. Was never taught this.
It sounds like a simple case of poor preflight, As a flight instructor back in the early 70's I had students fly to a landing without asi as well. But I don't remember the FAA requiring this, we were trying to equip them with things that would keep them alive. It might be worthwhile to survey old flight instructors as well as new flight instructors and see what unofficial "good stuff" they are teaching. Maybe instruction could change for the better. But the best pilot in the world is still a human being that can be distracted and in a hurry.
@@larrymitchell3502 This is what we need. I had to do the same thing before I solo. We need instructors and schools to teach to a safer standard than simply passing the test.
Really appreciate your technical updates. Thank you, Juan.
Juan, you have a real talent for explaining things that make it easy to understand and also gives a lot of food for thought. Thank you for your videos, I thoroughly enjoy them.
Thanks Mark!
On a flight from LHR-DOH last week, once I got into my seat and realised that it was a 777 I thought, 'Hey, this is one of those kites Blancolirio flies around in'.
For a moment there I thought you were the pilot, sitting in your seat...THEN realizing it was a 777😂
@@57Jimmy It would be a bit confusing.
@@57Jimmy I've been watching Blancolirio for years so, based on his ever clear explanations, I could probably hack my way through a flight. :)
Yes, Juan... AQP is needed in all flight training programs. I will be having my CFI/CFII reinforce my recurring training, as I get back to flying. Great discussion about basic needed training elements.
Covering all in prayer,
Thank you J.B.God Bless.
Stay strong warriors.
Had an Interruption during Pre-flight recently, a fellow UA-camr walked up and recognized us, after our visit, I started the pre-flight from the beginning....
Thanks for covering the AQP information and the information related to the many accidents that occur every month. I am a student pilot who is taking in the AQP information and making it a very important part of my training from the start. We have to do better. Its tragic all of the fatal accidents that occur each month.
Thanks Juan, for great information, analysis, and saving lives.
I really like that logic, structured approach in your videos... thank you! 💙
Excellent info Juan. Thanks for the update. Always love the content you post
Thank you my friend for the good report I am so sorry for the loss of that pilot may God bless🙏🛩
I guess I was lucky. When I was a student pilot my CFI covered up the airspeed indicator and we did pattern work, based on power settings and feeling the airplane.
I learned power settings as the golden rule. Know your winds, know your settings. Many landings with the a/i covered.
Its harder with a surprise erroneous reading. On an early dual flight I had the asi read 30 knots low, and wow am I glad I had a competent instructor with me!
Remember this is a student pilot here.
@@TgardnerH Did they tell you the ultimate cause? Sounds like an obstructed pitot tube. When things go awry, I always want to know why. Of course my "mech" skills are way too rusty now. But I did instrument systems in the mid 70s on C141s.
@@petergreenwald9639 The 30 year old hose from the pitot tube to the asi cracked when we took the nose-cone of the glider off for annual the day before. Lesson: don't trust anything right after the mechanic touches it!
Thanks for the update and you hit on some real important points!! Be SAFE!!!
This one made me nervous, I’ll be honest. My daughter has her first solo scheduled for Friday and my mom brain is trying to telepathically upload all of these checklists into her brain. 😂
She is a careful rule-follower and I trust her instructor. But still. That’s my baby. Good luck to her! 🤞🏻❤️
Indeed!
Prayers and “Best Wishes” for her safe flight!
She will do fine. Just make sure you remind her to remove the covers. LOL. Tell her subscribe to this channel, and she will learn a lot. And good luck to her
Seems like a very important takeaway from this video is don't distract the pilot during their preflight!
“sterile preflight” might be a good way to avoid getting distracted from by chatter. For something like a first solo, practicing calming yourself, and pre-visualizing the whole thing (just like the Blue Angels!) may help. Hope she has fun!
Great job, Juan! Thanks for sharing your thoughts and professional experience…
Juan,
One of our EAA 614 chapter members was at the airport when the crash occurred. He helped the emergency personnel at the scene. He said the pitot cover was indeed in place., and took a picture of it.
FANTASTIC suggestion Juan. I hope we have some Instructor Pilots seeing this because it would start with them!!! Fantastic 👏 👏 👏 👏 👏
One of the things I used to preach to my OE trainees: "Distraction is the root of all evil." It applies to ALL phases of a typical flight. Inside, outside, it doesn't matter. Learn to manage distractions at critical times and you'll probably survive what's coming next. Look at the last error you made as a pilot. Chances are, it began with some sort of distraction from the task at hand. Good points as usual Juan. Enjoying your content.
I had quite a few instructors as at the FBO 141 school where I trained just because the airlines kept sucking them up. But this gave me some extra perspective and I can say that even within a rigid 141 framework there can be high variability between instructors in what is emphasized and what extra tips are given.
Then separately there seems to be an administrative 141 issue regarding the syllabus content. The FAA and or insurance liability seems to incentivize the smaller outfits to just adopt an off the shelf training program like the Jeppeson syllabus and then they make any later changes/improvements a huge hassle and cost. The last I looked at a Jepp syllabus it left a lot to be desired but once those operating specs are locked in, your locked in.
In the airlines and larger planes that require 2 pilots usually have two air-speed indicators or three actually, if any one of those three are not lining up you are advised to reject your takeoff, my dad was a CFI and I grew up in airplanes and I was always taught if there was anything at all funny about my airspeed to reject my takeoff, I'd much rather take the time to figure out what's going on when on the ground than have to deal with it in the air and end up dead.....
This may sound a little off topic, but I drove for Loomis Courier in a congested downtown area for a decade. I'd do a "walk-around" of my own van in any area where I felt my equipment, mirrors, tires, check under the frame (in a school area) just to make sure all was safe. In ten years I encountered ONE incident, but my habits probably saved the small kids' life.
Here is something we tried with our NJ State Police AW139 medical helicopter that works. Do your pre-flight walk in one direction (clockwise). Stop. Do a second walk in the opposite direction (counter). We are different, however, as the full crew (PIC, SIC, Nurse, Paramedic) always walks together. It's much better for CRM.
I did not know this pilot, but I am familiar with this aircraft and the flight club that operates it. From what I understand talking to locals, this was NOT a student pilot but an instrument rated private pilot that has been flying off and on for 20 years. I think more needs to be looked into his currency and mental status at the time of this flight. An instrument rated pilot should know better than to commit to a takeoff without an indicated airspeed and should at a minimum be able to limp a plane around the pattern without stalling. Aviate first and troubleshoot on the ground! We have to wait for the NTSB report, but so far this seems like a 100% preventable accident.
What you’re suggesting makes a tremendous difference in this accident. While leaving a pitot tube cover on is terribly careless, and there is NO excuse for that EVER happening, it’s something that’s much more liable to happen to a newbie student pilot, perhaps who’s just recently solo’d. You can imagine a student being a bit nervous in anticipation of taking off, perhaps his train of thought split between the preflight walk around he’s doing, and pounding things into his head that he needs to remember during his flight. Or, maybe he gets interrupted by friends, or anyone for that matter, who has a question regarding his flight etc., and he mistakingly overlooks the pitot tube cover? Students are very often still having those pre takeoff butterflies, and are often mentally drilling themselves on things to remember just prior to flight. (Since there are MANY !!!). And anytime their concentration is split between 2 different things, something is bound to be missed or overlooked.
There could also be another scenario. Say he’s renting the aircraft from an FBO, and someone just returned from a flight, and they only put the pitot cover on and nothing else? Leaving off the other protective covers. We just don’t know. In that case, the student does his walk around preflight, knowing the aircraft just came back in and landed, and sees all the other covers off. So the pitot goes unrecognized as being on, as it’s expected to be off. And he missed that.
There are so many possibilities it’s almost endless.
But now, if we consider your suggestion that this was a fully licensed private pilot, and even holding an instrument rating!!??? Not only is it carelessness and failure to do a proper preflight in that case, it shows his inability to fly to immediate safe landing the aircraft which any holder of a PPL should be able to do, when an airspeed indicator is lost in pattern VFR!! That pilot should have had no trouble bringing that aircraft around the pattern and safely landing it. Airspeed indicator or not!! If not? They should have never been issued their PPL, much less an instrument rating!! If what you suggest is true, it shows they didn’t have even the basics down. No ability at all for seat of the pants flying. And any pilot that lacks that due to poor training? Let’s just say their days are sadly numbered.
It means they have no feel at all for the aircraft. Or ANY aircraft they fly for that matter. All they somewhat know are the numbers they’ve memorized. Numbers for the instruments, like stall speeds and such. Fewer & fewer pilots these days are learning even the basics of how to fly an aircraft. Instead, they’re spending many hours being taught about fancy avionics, and easy GPS navigation using them. But if/when they lose one of those tell all avionics, they lose their ability to fly! (Not all, but I’ve seen this trend show itself over the last 10 to 15 years).
Anyhow I digress.
PS*… The only thing I’d add, is that I’ve taken what the video and comment said at face value. I have no info of my own about the accident.
But what I also don’t know is the type of avionics the aircraft had.
Additionally, there’s a lot of talk about the airspeed indicator failure, but nothing else. That’s led me to think perhaps the ASI itself may have failed? If the pitot tube was restricted fully, he would have had erroneous readings and failures across all the pitot static instruments. Air speed, VSI and altimeter. It these other instruments are never mentioned, or if they were I missed it. So something seems off, or it was a line failure of the ASI and had nothing to do with the pilot tube cover…. Just wanted to make note of that, since all those instruments run off the poor static system they would have all had erroneous readings or failed. But again, no mention of that, that I heard.
1. Pressure, Temperature in the green
2. RPM above 2300
3. Fuel Flow Check
4. Airspeed Alive
5. 55 knots/ 65mph
"Rotate" on every Take Off without exception as my instructor taught me. (C172)
There is another concept that a instructor taught me back in the dark ages ,he would cover the airspeed I with a cardboard disk and we would fly with , attitude plus power equals airspeed
how sadd. thanks for your compassionate reporting and encouraging of AQP. its very needed.
I had an instructor cover my airspeed and altimeter and tell be to complete the landing. It was easier than one would think. You know the power settings and the view. As you said, a little faster for safety and the runway was longer than needed. I was glad he did it, just in case.
“Airspeed is alive, engines instruments in the green” on every takeoff roll.
I had the exact same reaction to him apparently NOT doing this. Puzzling.
How would he even know when to rotate?
@@jonkagan7170 At “enough speed” it probably “wants to fly” and just lifts off the runway.
But even if you go with that assumption, how does one “not notice” zero indicated airspeed yet climb at Vy (or Vx) ?
My sense is he did not abort the takeoff and it started to fly. Not much of an issue at full TO power and a normal-feeling pitch angle. But then when he throttles back or idles the engine he just doesn’t visually judge the airspeed and balls it up after he stalls.
Too many questions. Disheartening. I hope I am wrong.
@@jonkagan7170 Prob. by paying attention to his newly developed instinct and feel for what the plane was doing, but which he seems to have stopped doing once he got airborne. Sad thing.
Even when I am alone I do verbal callouts of airspeed I am my own FO. IN effect it is my personal takeoff checklist as I roll dwon the runway. I also have Vx and Vy marked on the airspeed indicator. Its only a Piper Cherokee but I want to know those data points especially in a hot, high and (maybe) heavy takeoff.
Drinking from the firehose for nosepickers also. Retired A&P. Great channel.
I think the problems were far deeper than a left on pitot cover. Basic airmanship seemed to be missing as well as an understanding of the SR20.
Agreed
I read an article today that the FAA wants to get rid of sexist words in aviation such as cockpit and airmen
@@shamu3838 I think the correct term is “gendered” not “sexist” which has a negative implication. I also heard the government is eliminating Spanish. 😉 Makes as much sense.
at the Napa CA airport JAL had a huge training base there for years and years.. it was always interesting on the freq's there at Napa in those days but they grew their own pilots. at least in those days another buddy of mine there in Napa flew 747 for JAL was the first Jal 747 capitan.
Thanks for your updates
A good case study in this very topic is Birgenair Flight 301. Lessons in CRM to be learned from that as well given different readings between the PIC and FO. A lot of people died over that one.
When I was a student pilot my instructor would often cover the airspeed indicator and we would practice flying by the sound the air was making at different speeds.
I have forgotten the pitot tube cover once; it was a stupid error; i am very meticulous on my preflights but that in turn leads to situations where your mind thinks it did something this time that in fact it remembers from last time; this is of course aggravated by the pitot tube not being visible from the cockpit in many low wing aircraft. solution 1: put the cover in the cockpit so you can visually check its presence; solution 2: buy an inspection mirror; always keep it in the cockpit and use it to check if the pitot cover is on; or the tow bar, or the chocks if you think your mind may be playing you tricks. Another important point is to never get side tacked during your walk around and if you are catching the lack of airspeed too late (i for example cannot see the airspeed indicator on take-off without significantly moving my head since the piper tomahawk eyebrow is installed so low it covers the upper instruments (working on changing that)) make sure you know your visual and power setting so that you can make sure to select an attitude and power setting that gives you a save speed like juan said. I did just that and on landing i selected a long runway and approached on the fast side only bleeding off airspeed when above the runway; so it all went well. and i am making damn sure this only happened once so that i have learnt from your mistakes.
I work in a technical (complicated machines) arena of the health care industry. We follow lengthy protocols and check-off lists for the machine's proper function, quality, and settings prior to the patients ever being connected to it. Difference is we indicate on paper and in a computer (via checkmarks, actual readings, initials) that we've completed each step of the safety and quality checks. I wonder if something similar could be implemented for GA pilots to use each time they're pre-flighting? An actual paper check-off list specific to the plane that requires an actual check mark prior to take-off. That way, you have a visual representation and can easily see if you missed something simple...like a pitot tube cover.
Isn't in the checklist to look for crud in the pitot tube, and the cover has to be off and in your pocket? Checklists vary.
Thank you for owning up to a mistake and for the valid points you make. Someone reading this won't repeat it.
I worked as an AME years ago. We had a client who forgot to remove the foam bungs from the air intakes on the front of the cowl. They were covered in bright red vinyl. Fortunately he detected an abnormally high rate of oil temperature increase before he left the ground and no harm was done to man or machine.
As a side note, he was a highly respected pilot with thousands of hours logged. If my memory serves me correctly he was a check and training captain for one of the better known (I wont say which one!) airlines. He was very embarrassed by his mistake which he claimed was the first one of this type that he had ever made. After making such a mistake, he chose not to fly that day.
I am unaware if he changed his procedures after that but it does point to the fact that even the best of us a susceptible to making serious mistakes.
@@davidbrayshaw3529 do any preflight checklists include something like, “There should be 3 red items in the cabin (2 cowl bungs, 1 pitot cover)”?
L: I think there is a fine line where it gets burdensome and people will skip the checks altogether, but i will try it out
We have always taught from day one to not only fly by indicated airspeed, but also by paying attention to the visual attitude. Where the nose is on the horizon considering the power being used. With a little practice it is easily possible to maintain a desired airspeed to within a few knots with zero reference to the clocks. A forgotten pitot cover should not be cause for a fatality in a light aircraft especially. Also, I would not consider a Cirrus a suitable aircraft for a low experience solo student.
Excellent vid as usual.
You're not the first to mention Cirrus as unsuitable. I know nothing. What's the issue? Too powerful? Too complex?
@@capnskiddies At 200hp the Sr-20 is considered a high performance airplane. Since it generally flies faster, all the speeds including stall speed are faster meaning things happen faster in the pattern and it's easier to get behind the airplane. It's avionics suite can also be complicated for a low hour student..
I'm a Cirrus pilot and I think it's insane that they are used to train or for low hour pilots. They are fast, powerful, slippery, terrible glide characteristics, and too much automation for a trainer imo. I just think we should all learn to fly in a 150 or a 172 where nothing works and sitting on a milk crate
Just fly the plane!!
@@rdawgz866 LOL. Idk about the milk crate part, but I agree. Initial flight training should always be done in forgiving aircraft.
Always good, Captain Browne,
I always judged that, in an emergency, VFR, I could fly with no Airspeed Indicator.
(Stick and Rudder Pilot).
You can sense your speed, based on the stiffness of the controls.
(Full Spin qualified, I know when a plane breaks into a spin. )
I've confirmed from the FAA website that the pilot had a private pilot certificate and instrument rating. So not a student pilot.
Then why all the fuss over loss of an airspeed indicator!?...AQP!
@@blancolirio I’m wondering if it wasn’t an AI problem but rather an actual airspeed problem, and we’re just focusing on a report of the pitot cover still being on. I can’t find any recordings of the CTAF on liveatc.net to hear what was actually said.
I am a former mechanic. 40 years total, 20 years in Air Medical.
Prior to getting in and strapping in the three would do a “ duck walk “. The pilot would walk around the aircraft with the other two following. Checking that the shore power was disconnected, cowlings latched, no puddles, etc. This was only done if they were departing to get a patient, not if loading one for a flight out.
Things still got missed. Landing at a scene with a 50 foot extension cord still plugged in. Cowlings opening in flight. They would go up into the main rotor and torn off. We painted orange under the latches so it would indicate that they weren’t latched. Still got missed. Streamers on the shore power cord, still missed. I bought extension cords with a neon lamp to show up at night. The medical people would swap that with another and use the cord I bought to run the vacuum cleaner inside.
I was the safety manager. But I had no authority. They were the customer and I worked for the aviation company that had the contract.
They would tell me that they don’t work for me, or simply that they didn’t do things that way.
People tend to see what they want. Complacency happens unfortunately.
If the pitot cover was on, verbalizing airspeed on the takeoff roll is useful. Having a takeoff plan (off by x location and airspeed) is useful.
Even in a highly supervised environment I saw more than one pitot cover left on. And I also had one squadron boss cover the ASI with his doffed glove. You can fly surprisingly accurately by attitude, sound and feel if you've had a good foundation.
Always preaching facts. Thanks Juan!
Very good Juan, this was drummed into us constantly, check, check and did I say check your airplane, thanks again.👍👍👍👍👍❤🇺🇸
One of the channels I watch is CitationMax who has flown the SR20 and the Vision jet and now the Citation M2. His take offs are always the same. "take off power set and achieved, 2 good engines, air speed is alive, 70 knots, V1" He has followed this routine on every flight I have seen and for good reason just as you said. But I have also seen this same routine on other vlogs that I watch.
Man it saddens me every video but we learn so much to apply to prevent
That’s interesting -when our local club Cirrus taxied by my hangar the other day, I walked out and stopped him to remove HIS pitot cover which was still on!! It is kinda under the wing and not super visible. (The pilot opened the door and thanked me) hehe
yikes! =/ good on ya man haha
In the Air Force, many a pitot cover was melted on when the heat was turned on for test. Strange that checklist removal of the cover was often missed yet the heat check never was.
Pilot needs a refresher
@@kareno8634 orange with long "remove before flight" streamers
@@kareno8634 sparkles hahahaha
This Cirrus pilot owes great thanks and his life to the great instructors I had. Especially (flymejoe)Joe who took me through IFR, HIGH PERFORMANCE AND TAA. I still managed to make a few mistakes but the training always kicked in.
Back in the day (40 years ago) when I was flying the wings off my 150 all over the North East I gotta admit I almost never looked at the airspeed indicator. On take-off you set the power to max, you rolled down the runway until you got elevator authority, pulled back a very little and waited for the airplane to fly off the runway. The feel and sound was all I needed to get airborne... ditto to land. The airspeed indicator was almost superfluous during takeoff and landing. I knew everything was right just by feel and sound and basic pilotage.
Juan, on my next flight I will start with an extra walk around after my preflight. I’ll make it part of my SOP. Thank you!!!
I picked up a 172 from paint: static port was plugged internally + trim was rigged incorrectly. Takeoff was exciting, nose lifts up at 40 knots and airspeed drops to zero on climb-out. Kept the power full and dealt with the trim problem first, then switched the alternative static source to restore instrumentation.
Part of my decision making during takoff roll is, are all the instrument working ? If not I reject the takoff.
"Take off RPM set, Airspeed alive, continue" - this is valid even on a single engine aircraft, costs less than a second
Thank you very much for the informations!
Spot on…. Years ago I had an old retired 74 captain as a mentor. He used the term for ‘most pilots’ “airspeed dependent, wheel whacking (referring to agressive yoke inputs), conditioned primates”. And through all my years, I’ve noticed, he was correct. And this guy seemed certainly to be airspeed dependent. When I used to teach primary students, i always covered the airspeed indicator until they got used to flying by sight and feel.
Excellent channel. Nice to see the Luscombe.
I’ve had two pitot-static malfunctions while flying gliders. The first event was flying my glider club’s L-23 for my CAP Instructor Pilot checkride. The pitot tube was clogged by what we think were mud daubers. The second event was probably due to water getting into the static port when the glider (another L-23) was rained on while tied down outside overnight. Both events required use of known pitch references and resulted in great landings (i.e. we were able to use the planes again). Also, the second event was during a CAP instructional ride and the cadet got a good lesson on why we use known pitch references to set the airspeed instead of focusing on the airspeed indicator.
A wealth of information everytime!!! I do enjoy it... 😁Thx
Most of the aircraft we serviced had pitot heat . We would use the plastic sheath spark plugs came in , 2 staples down the side for a snug fit on the pitot , with a red streamer ..
If proper preflight not done , as a last resort , turn pitot heat on n melt pitot cover away.
Good tips, good video Juan.
Locally, (eastern NC) we recently lost a high hour crop dusting pilot that had worked the coastal plains for many years. Flying a Air Tractor powered by a turbo prop.
On my very first training flight my instructor told me on the take off roll, always check T&Ps in the green and air speed rising. Then before rotate quick check again. If anyone is not good then reject the takeoff.
I've had this happen to me. A night wet/sleet 0°C takeoff on a BAE Jetstream 32, FO was pilot flying. While the J32 is close to jet handling in many respects, it is still a turboprop, so the airspeed confirmation is lower than 80kts. When I called the IAS confirmation there was a hesitation, then the FO called "mine is off" (or words to that effect), we had passed V1/Vr and the only option was to continue. As my IAS appeared normal, I called "my controls" and took over. At the "positive climb, gear up" callout, my IAS also went haywire.
Having studied numerous IAS failure incidents/accidents, the obvious reaction was "my IAS failure, flying known power/attitude". Not really a problem if you don't start chasing an unreliable instrument.
In our case, the problem turned out to be simple: Glancing at the FO's skirt panel, I saw that the Pitot/Static heaters were OFF. A few seconds after he turned them ON again, everything returned to normal.
This was a shocking wake-up call. We did a lot of soul-searching, and the only conclusion was that, for some obscure reason, the FO (one of the most precise and conscientious pilots I have flown with) apparently missed/skipped the "Pitot/Static heaters ON" checklist call.
Bottom line: We WILL make silly and unexpected mistakes, it's part of being human. The important bit: How do we react to silly and unexpected mistakes?
Studying mistakes other pilots have made helps us recognize what is happening, hopefully avoiding falling into the same trap.
Oh god not again.😥
RIP & condolences to family & friends.
My friend was the one who witnessed it, I have a picture of the wing with the pitot tube cover still on
I had something similar happen in my twin comanche. I had picked it up from HSI replacement and all seemed well on takeoff roll, airspeed showed speed. When I got off ground, all hell broke loose. Airspeed all over the place. After landing it was discovered the pitot and static lines were reversed on the back of the airspeed indicator. That was no fun.
My father Anthony Herrington was a flight instructor and he always taught his students to verify they had airspead before rotation.
My gliding (sailplane) instructor was unhappy with me chasing the required airspeeds by using the ASI, rather than employing visual pitch attitude and the sound of airflow over the cockpit, so she covered up the ASI and we flew a couple of circuits. It definitely worked, although I naturally erred on the side of caution especially in turns - not a good idea to stall in a turn at 500 feet.
The Cirrus has GPS which would indicate groundspeed, keep that number above the stall airspeed, also an issue that could get you is not looking at the airspeed while still accelerating but well below takeoff airspeed, a few hundred feet down the runway and airspeed should indicate above zero but not quite at the minimum takeoff airspeed.
Been waiting for this report from you. Thanks for taking the time out of you busy life to give us a solution. Listen up everyone, the voice of experience is speaking.
In training, my instructor would quiz me on things during my preflight. If I lost track of where I was, I started the preflight at the very beginning. I don't care how many times I have to check for water in the fuel tank, if my routine is interrupted at any point, it was back to the beginning. Apparently my instructors were good because they discussed all these items before I soloed. I will forever be grateful for their instruction. Now, a bird strike in the pitot tube could create havoc: knowing how the system works and the effects of such an event could also be helpful. Drill it so many times you don't get wrong.
Such a good suggestion...a hands on walk around and a stand back walk around to double check your first preflight.
A student pilot from our local school forgot to put back the oil cap on after topping up during preflight on a local flight. He did the preflight while chating with a friend and got distracted. He only picked up the mishap at his destination. Though this incident did not result in a catastophe it does reinforce the need to double check everything when in doubt.
The " Idiot Check " saved me an embarrassing moment when I forgot to untie the tail tiedown after being distracted during the first pre-flight after the fuel truck's arrival. Probably not a possible deadly error on my part, but it taught me to always do a second walk around before entering the cockpit.
I will implement the 'idiot check' as part of my routine going forward.
The idiot check can also be used postflight. Walk 30 feet towards the FBO, turn around and take a quick look. Is the rotating beacon on, is the plane sitting level ( flat or low tire), did the lineman actually chock you or just bring them out? Etc.
The problem for a noob is that in a car if you gets confused and scared slowing down is safe but in a plane slowing down makes you fall out of the sky and die. Speed is life in the air.
Same with altitude. Our instinct is to get lower to the ground, and fly slower, when altitude and speed are your friend.
Altitude is time.
@@thetowndrunk988 I keep hearing about these instincts. I guess I'm lucky? The lower and slower I am the more nervous I am. I also hear that the instinct is that when the engine stops the instinct is to try to climb. I don't have that one either. When the engine stops I just go to best glide speed and start setting up to land. It would just never occur to me to point the nose up and stall. Yet I'm told that's the natural reaction and people get mad at me if I say it's not my natural reaction.
@@gasdive As to not climbing when the engine fails, I have this to say about that. If you're at 2,500' and you're doing 180 knots, and your best glide speed is 72 knots, why aren't you trading 108 knots for altitude? A 'zoom climb', might give you another 3,000' of altitude as your airspeed drops off to 80 knots or so, and then you can pitch over to best glide speed. You have more range and more time to look for a place to put her down.
Try this. Find your cruise speed at a lower altitude, bring the throttle back to flight idle and then pitch up to see how much altitude you can gain before you need to pitch back over to capture best glide speed.
@@GaryMCurran oh yeah, I agree, if you've got heaps of speed in hand, trade it for height. I guess I generally don't because I'm not really going places, I'll probably be just stooging around at about best L/D anyway.
This is tragic and I feel for the family. It also emphasizes the need for a thorough preflight every time we fly. I will mention this accident to my flight instructor. Maybe teaching to abort a takeoff when things aren't perfect or teaching landings with no airspeed indication early on. Maybe this will prevent a future tragedy. One time a while back I started the takeoff roll and noticed the airspeed indicator was not reading and rejected the takeoff. I went back and shut down and someone got out and took the cover off. I usually don't let anyone "help" while preflighting the plane, but somehow this slipped by. If someone asks I usually say "Stand over there and don't say anything." Another time I knew the pitot cover wasn't on because it was missing when I arrived at the airport a few days earlier. During the climbout I noted that the airspeed was working erratically and the altimeter was not indicating correctly, and continued using the panel-mounted GPS for altitude and groundspeed, which was close to airspeed on this day. The weather was CAVU with almost no wind. During the flight I turned on the pitot heat and after about 15 minutes the bug that had moved into the static hole cooked down enough so everything started working. Those Piper pitot tubes get really hot. Part of my flight training was to simulate a full electrical failure at night and land the plane with no instruments or lights. I also know how the plane should feel through the approach. I didn't need that skill, but I had it in reserve. Part of instrument training is recognizing instrument failures such as this. After getting home I managed to fish out the bug's remains with a fine wire. There is good reason to keep the pitot tube covered, especially in a place with a lot of bugs. Now I keep a spare cover in the rear baggage area.
When I was flying as an FO in a CRJ900 I was coming down the taxiway to 35R at DFW and observed an AA321 with the pitot completely covered! I reported it to ground and they reported it to the flight in question. The captain said he couldn’t see it. As luck would have it they pulled up next to us just short of the runway. I spoke directly to the captain on the radio and told him where it was. The left side was completely covered. They then thanked me and taxied across the runway then did a gate return. Now I’m flying a PC-12 and some times we send two pilots on certain trips and we are always doing airspeed checks and positive control changes everything you learn at 121 and airline training and AQP
Great job, love your videos
Picked up my plane from shop after annual. Thorough preflight, started takeoff and no airspeed. Right back to shop and mud dauber nest in my pitot tube cleaned out. Mechanic had not had cover on while in shop. Most of us learn rpm settings for different phases of flight. Can’t see how anyone takes off without noticing lack of air speed.
A fantastic narrative as always.
I was at out local airfield just watching the going’s on and I observed a student giving a Cessna the once over before climbing in. The instructor walks over, has a quick look around and climbs in. They do their pre start checks, start the engine, move away from the parking area and do a run up. They start to taxi and all of a sudden the engine stops and the instructor gets out and removes the rudder gust lock.
1000% Agree. Right now, some pilots are just being trained to pass the checkride. We need to give pilots the knowledge and skills to avoid accidents. To quote Dan, pilots aren't discovering new ways to kill themselves. This Cirrus crash was tragic, but we can learn from it.
I had a speed indicator coming apart on me in my 210 unbelievable, but true. loosing the airspeed indicator is a very serious issue to say the least, not to mention for a student. I resolved the problem by using gps speed and staying 5-10 kts high and selecting a long runway. I recommend to train for such event at early stage. Forgetting the pito tube cover does happen, critters crawling into the tube and it can become plugged by ice too, so plenty of reasons that gps ground speed can come in handy apart of emphasizing the importance of a proper Pre flight check.
According to the GoFundMe page for the pilot, he was not a student but an instrumented rated pilot. Pitch and power setting should have been no problem for an instrument rated pilot.
If he was an Instrument rated pilot, he shouldn't have had any issues at all. I mean, unless he was flying an approach to minimums. Even then, with the pitot cover on, he could have watched the GPS ground speed to get a fairly close idea of how fast he was. I have a hard time believing it was an Instrument rated pilot, though. Not saying it wasn't, just I have a hard time believing it.
Okay, so, he was 38 years old, instrument-rated since he was 20. He'd been flying since he was 16. How, in 22 years of flying, do you not learn how to fly an airplane in VFR conditions not dependent on the instruments?
There has got to be something else going on besides he left a pitot cover on. Even if the entire EFIS system crashed, and he didn't have airspeed, altitude, or AI, they said the weather was VFR, why couldn't he have landed the airplane?
www.kathrynsreport.com/2021/06/cirrus-sr20-gts-n62wr-fatal-accident.html
@@GaryMCurran I believe it. Private pilots with working airspeed indicators stall/spin on turn to base or final every day. My bet is that he was highly stressed in a situation he'd never been in, and just let himself get too slow. I am lucky, I had a primary instructor that noticed I was looking at the gauges too much during my first flights, so he covered them up. I flew for a long time with none. It was a great exercise, and had this pilot had that training he might be still around. Juan is correct, we need better training.
@@tomsmith3045 I can't see how you can be stressed on a CAVU day less than a mile from the airport on final, hell, less than 250 yards from the end of the runway. i doubt very much that he was turning base to final there, and if he was, WHY?!?
I don't know what the final outcome is going to be, but this is going to be a lot more than failure to remove a pitot tube cover. Engine failure, maybe? That I would believe, especially if it happened on downwind, or in the pattern somewhere before he turned to final.
The more I think about this, the more I'm going to believe that something else happened in the airplane. How about a snapped aileron cable? No, I'm not saying that's what it is, I have no clue, but something happened that he wasn't prepared, hadn't trained for, and didn't have the time to figure out what was going on and fix it. The more I look at this, it's not about a pitot tube cover, although that might have been a contributing factor.
Here, how about this. Water in the fuel tanks. Again, speculation, but if he didn't happen to notice the pitot tube on the wing, did he actually bother to sump the fuel tanks. If there was a significant amount of water (even less than a quart) in them, he might have been on the tank with water in it. Run up, taxi out, take off, that might have been just enough to get him to downwind turning base, or just before, and complete engine failure. Again, I don't know, but until I hear differently, I'm going to stop blaming lack of airspeed indication, and look for something a lot more dangerous, like an engine failure.
@@GaryMCurranI would have thought so too, except after paying attention to things like the NAL report (or however it's spelled), stall spin in CAUV is really common. My bet is that you learned to fly in a similar way that I did, with lots of time spent in slow flight, until you were completely comfortable in that part of the envelope...and very aware to avoid it completely at low level. I'm realizing now that many people don't get that level of training, and they just don't know how the airplane flies. One example that comes to mind is the air france crew, I believe, that stalled the jet over 90 times, all the way down to the ocean. Nothing else wrong but lack of airspeed indication, and a professional crew.
@@tomsmith3045 as I'm reading more information, i.e. The Kathryn Report linked in the description, they said he appeared to be struggling with an engine issue. I think this may have been a case of "the impossible turn" on takeoff, and with lack of indicated airspeed as a contributing factor.
I am not a pilot or, or aviator, but I do enjoy reading the comments below and all the detail. Thanks 😊