Love your thoughts as always! My two cents: I could not care less about a headphone jack. It's the same gear, same levels, and same voice I use over and over. Once I've set levels once, nothing ever needs to change. I turn everything on... Are the levels moving on screen when i talk? Yes? Cool, let's record. The only thing that could thwart me is a dodgy cable. But even then, that would probably show in the levels bars. If im shooting weddings, or other paid work, then of course. But the s9 probably isn't for that. And IBIS is essential. For me at least. I don't care if walking and vlogging is out-dated, what about everythinggggg else? Every shot of b-roll? Never mind the a-roll. I think it's such an oversight not to include ibis. Especially on a creator camera. Totally agree about the lens line up on the S9! I hope there are more smaller lenses on the way. I think the f8 pancake is the worst lens I've ever used, honestly 😂
Even in your case, I think the headphone jack would be useful for getting the initial level set. The only time that wouldn't apply is if you were always recording an exactly the same situation with exactly the same level of background noise consistently. I think that would apply to very few people though. Even if they're not using the headphones while recording they could at least use it to get the audio level set up initially rather than just trusting the meters
@falxonPSN nah, never have in 7 years of making YT videos. No problems yet! I film all over the world as well as home. 3 second clip of "how does this look? How does this sound?" Done. And it isn't any more effort as I need to check framing anyway.
I have to agree. Jordan is definitely someone who really cares about audio. But working with other content creators showed me that almost everyone just uses a Wireless Go and don't even bother with levels. I think everything else than a mic jack is overpowered for these folks.
I also have never used the headphone jack on any of my cameras, the on-screen indicators are enough for me. However, I absolutely do think that the S9 is very poor value relative to the other options (including this ZV)
Absolutely on point, specially the no ibis thing considering the price. I would also add that not having a viewfinder is an absolute no for me. Not being able to compose and isolate myself, specially under the sun is a complete no go for me. Pd: is it that expensive to put a hotshoe that they had to get rid of it? 🙄 Sometimes I feel like Lumix as well as Olympus /OM System has someone inside sabotaging most of their launches... 😅
Full time creator here. Camera manufacturers seem truly confused about what most creators need or want. From what i’ve seen, 9/10 content creators just want: - great stabilisation - never overheats - reliable AF - cool form factor - no record limits Very few outside of the camera niche care about: - dynamic range - rolling shutter - log or raw video - anything above 4k video A bunch of travel creators still use the now discontinued Sony X3000 simply because it hits the first requirements and can easily fit in your pocket. DJI understands this with their Osmo Pocket line. Pany and Sony continually offer creators slightly worse versions of their main camera lines… junk that no one ever asked for or wanted. Too underpowered for filmmakers and still too overpowered and complicated for entry level creators. In other words: pleasing absolutely no one and ending up in the trash bins of history.
@@walrusgumboot I love my s5iix, but the point is that it's way too big, and much of that has to do with other functions the average "creator" won't ever touch, while missing ones they would use. I think, honestly, if they (panasonic) actually wanted to target this market, they should've done something radically different. Like, a $1000 version of the Flip cam, and don't even bother with the "camera" form factor. No articulating screen, just put a second smaller screen on the front for the subject to monitor. Basically big, interchangeable lens GoPro. Max out the autofocus, stabilization & thermal management, simplify the menus, and ignore everything else. It would look incredibly weird, but it might sell. Or, otoh, make an mft version of the DJI osmo. I think that would stay within the approximate size limit I imagine their target demo wants. It'd solve a problem the DJI can't, and probably would be an attractive value proposition for creators who basically only want to carry around one "thing" (and maybe a zhiyun style light when necessary). Idk, imho. 🤷♀️
You forgot: - Excellent battery life - Good codecs and not withholding 10bit just because it's a cheaper camera. - Audio not being an afterthought Which is why the Fuji X-S20 is the best hybrid camera on the market, full stop.
Something weird is happening with their scene where they show the Sony stabilization. That’s not how the camera performs in other videos. Watch the reviews of a channel called Camera Crisis where he tries the zv e10 II and other Sony cameras with a plethora of wide angle lenses. His stabilization looks good on the zv e10 II.
I bought the S9 to put M mount vintage lenses on it. Leica monochrome and 40 LUT spots. If I want to take advantage of the PDAF, Sigma 45mm f/2.8 DG DN is a nice size lens for the body.
No mention of the displays on cameras without EVFs? Also the 6k open gate is incredibly useful for people shooting both vertical and horizontal. The app integration on the Panasonic was ignored. The recording limits on the S9 were also not mentioned. And if the high end features of the S9 are too overwhelming for creators, who is going to monitor audio or plug in XLR microphones from that crowd? This video feels a bit rushed trying to justify Jordan's previous thoughts rather than getting a very balanced overview, unlike other videos from you guys.
Well said The S9 menus are too overwhelming for beginners. Also… The S9 doesn’t let you monitor audio and connect XLR microphones Sounds like Jordan struggling to look beyond his own usage needs.
@@Paul_Rohde I didn’t say they weren’t covered. I’m highlighting the cognitive dissonance, in one breath saying the menus are too overwhelming for beginners, but then criticising the camera for not having audio features such as compatibility with the XLR adapter, which a beginner would certainly not be looking for.
I have watched MANY of your videography reviews, Jordan, and I have to say, I actually don't think most people ever monitor their audio. They just whack a microphone on, maybe do a test recording if they're smart, then go out and start filming. Only true videographers would monitor their audio. Regular people are also trying to enjoy the moment with whomever they're pointing the camera at.
Yep. Exactly. The people who are buying this are not monitoring their audio. And if they really wanted to, the can out a DJI Mic 2 and plug headphones into the receiver anyway.
opinions are free... but open gate, stabi and hybrid zoom are great. does the zve10 have a front dial? personally i thin the s9 is great to hold without the extra grip
7:28 I think people underestimate how important stabilization is if you ever do walking shoots. Sony footage is borderline unusable imho…the video just looks terrible while moving and it almost gives me motion sickness. It misses the entire point of having a dedicated camera when the footage you capture has worse overall output than a phone because the subject bounces around so much in the frame and it distracts you from what’s going on in the video.
He said that people don't walk and vlog anymore, didn't you heard him? From now on, tripod gang for life! 😂 The video loooooks terrible, the shutter is super cranked and he keeps trying to brush it off like it's no biggie.🤣
@@lfcruzsierra Interestingly, when they were on DPReview Jordan tried out fast shutter speeds without telling viewers and...no one noticed. I think the 24FPS/shutter angle mafia are going to die out as consumers center their expectations around digital devices and fast screens instead of the conventions of film in 1930.
The DJI Mic and Rode Wireless Go systems both have headphone jacks on their receivers, so if you're using those, you have at least _some_ way to monitor audio on the S9.
I think you WAY over estimate the headphone jack for "normal" users. I'm not sure if you mentioned video record time limits, but if you didn't it was an important omission.
@@iamhassan9943 Then you should start paying more attention to your audio, because for your audience, audio is more important than the picture. Even if you don’t think it is.
@@80-80. I do a lot with video but most of the time I don't use a headphone. It's kind of like with the tripod. Of course a lot of stills and videos would be better with a tripod but 99% of the normal people still don't want to carry one. I have both and I used them for important production like shootings. It was nice to know the sound was OK and the image came from the tripod but usually I'm doing a more spray and pray approach like everybody else.
S9 is the perfect dad cam for me. I'm not a professional, I'm just an enthusiast with a lot of know how. When I'm out with my kids, my family, or I'm at family events, or most importantly, during traveling, I'm the sole photographer/videographer for the whole gang. In this fast paced day and age, a quick turnaround is what expected of me from my big family. Especially my parents who know little about editing process. During this time, usually with my Canon r6, I had to dump the files to my laptop (got to carry one as a necessity, I hate this tbh) AFTER the event/Itinerary, edit while everyone is taking their rest, and send it late at night when everyone is already asleep. They'll look and happy in the morning, but often what I found out was that, some family member were so impatient that they have already posted the inferior (skewed angle, unflattering pose, cut off body parts, etc) images/videos, and it rendered my "work" less meaningful. Also, I'm sleep deprived while they are in a great mood thanks to the abundance of rest time 😅 With this s9, imagine what I'd do now? For photos: I took a Pic and it immediately transfered to my phone without looking at my phone once, with the LUT that I already handpicked. Once there's a break/eating time, I just looked at the transferred images and do some cropping/image positioning, and send to all member. That's it. For videos: I'll just edit the videos timelines, add some effects/transitions, and export from the lumix lab/other mobile editor. Saying goodbye to color grading and most importantly, bringing my damn heavy laptop to a trip. It's gonna be perfect for me and a lot of parents alike. Those limitations are nothing for me. As long as I can attach a rode mic, it'll be fine already. Oh and since it can also transfer raw images at a fast speed as well, I'll do my "fun" editing at my own time, for my own pleasure another time.. Without any immediate pressure! Cheers!
@@youuuuuuuuuuutube You nailed it, all about fun. Honest question, is there an Instagram I can check out your work with a camera you love ? Or maybe there's a video on your UA-cam, showing some work and cameras you love. Let me know, I'd love to check it out.
And its also just another camera, if you cannot get good results with a modern camera, its not the camera thats the problem, its whats behind. Marry the lenses, never marry the bodies. Simple as that, and remember: LIGHT, LOCATION, LENS.
@@SMGJohn Feel you on the point about the lenses, good point. Sidenote, is there anywhere I can check out your recent photos / vids ? Maybe YT or Instagram ?
@@TopshelfJunior I prefer not to dox myself as I keep my instagram and my website in my own name, gotta put the border somewhere, I mostly shoot Sony Alpha 900 for my portrait work and the G9M2 for video work. I used to own the S5M2 and I had the Sigma MC adapter EF to L mount, thats one thing I really miss about that is how amazing the autofocus was in video with Canon glass, I have a huge soft spot for Canon primes, but having tried some Olympus glass I am shocked how good their primes are. Now I just keep the 18-35mm and 50-100mm F1.8 around for video work since Metabones did in fact update their firmware to enable PDAF with G9M2 and GH7. But thats the thing, there really nothing like it on the L-mount, you either adapt or get the Leica glass which, oh man the price makes my eyes bleed.
The S9 makes the most sense as a relatively affordable B camera for an S5 II / S5 IIX. And that's probably where it will sell the most. If you use a multi camera setup for something like wedding videography, you can set up an S9 for a second angle alongside an S5 II / S5 IIX and match the footage seamlessly.
Which is how almost everyone shoots these days. Small Clips. When is the last time you edited a video with a 15 minute take included and didn’t cut to another clip or angle? And remember, he said second angle, not the main camera recording a ceremony or interview.
Very interesting, well made comparison. IBIS of the S9 would make me choose the S9 over the Sony. But, ultimately, both cameras come with issues which are a deal breaker for me, so I wouldn't buy either of them. Too bad, since I really would like to have a small full-frame camera. The Sigma FP is similar. Good, but not good enough.
Oh yeah... That would be gold. But sadly, alot of people think the mFT is not enough. Which is complete nonsense... I went to all formats, switched back from Sony FF to Panasonic mFT. The only thing im missing is the PDAF.
Hey Jordan, thanks for the review. Always love your work in front of the camera! I would say that your 'defence' of the Sony is perhaps a bit flimsy and built on less important things such as handling, ergo and audio. The S9 wins on two of the most important things that impact the final video output produced by the camera: IQ and stab. The jittery nature of the Sony video due to lack of stab and the heavy crop required to deal with it puts that camera well into the corner in my view. The final output from the S9 puts it way ahead, your honor. I agree that price is an issue. When the Panny drops in price (and there is no doubt it will when initial demand is cleared) then it's another reason to buy the S9.
I agree. Favoring Sony for insignificant things and not valuing the big ones for the S9 is just BS. Straight out the gate full frame vs Apsc should make this comparison kind of impossible to do fairly. No mention of the Sony overheating or the S9 record limits either? One of the most important issues of both cameras.
I think an S9 vs A6700 would’ve been more appropriate, especially considering the higher price of full frame lenses. But the A6700 stomps the S9, especially in continuous stills mode with a speedlight and 4k60 overheating. PS don’t let DJI’s website fool you, the A6700 and FX30 are fully compatible with the RS3 and RS3 Pro via Bluetooth.
I know it's not exactly pocket change, but with the ZV-E1 being $1900 now, I really can't see spending $1500 on the S9 and not adding those $400 for a camera that puts everything to shame (for video) in this price range and that also has a HUGE variety of 1st and 3rd party lenses available.
@@yawningmarmot ZV-E1 is actually fine if you only do internal recording, under direct California sunlight, 72 temp, it can record 4K 60fps for 30mins with no issue, it's actually heated less than my a7 IV
@@yawningmarmotI agree with the fx30. As im eying one up. I don't agree with the full frame though. Unless you are doing film and video for a living. Just not UA-cam stuff. I think most people will be ok with a mft, or a crop sensor. Cheaper overall, and full-time frame lens on a crop sensor add another 1.5 to full frame lens, snd mft adds 2 times. So less lens you need to buy. I'm also eyeing up a a6700 for pictures.
I just spent 1 hour with my sister helping her configure her e1, the bigger brother, and next to it my s9. 1. over heating is real, the e1 hears up like crazy. I expect the e10 is the same. 2. sony easy? picture profile management is a nightmare. shooting mode is again a menu run... 3. the dim screen 4. the transfer to phone with mp4 (s9) ... I have the feeling the s9 is much better value and maybe you just do not like the cam. The review I feel has holes. Maybe you disliked the camera and have not spent the necessary time with it?
The S9's Achilles heel is pricing, at $1500 it just doesn't present a case for itself against any of its competition (or within Panasonic's lineup, even). If it were in the ZV-E10 II's price bracket of ~$1000 I could forgive some of its flaws as a more beginner-oriented camera, but it simply doesn't compete there when it's at $1500. Instead it's against much more well-rounded cameras like the a6700, X-S20 and R8 (who are $100-200 cheaper, even!), where the S9's glaring omissions like the borderline-dealbreaker recording limits, lack of headphone jack & XLR input, lack of mechanical shutter, etc. make it truly not very compelling for the intermediate-to-advanced users that would actually want/need those features (especially at its price point). The few benefits the S9 does have (namely 6K open-gate and stabilisation), it shares with the S5II, and for just an extra $200 it really is a no-brainer to go with the latter instead. It'll probably be a bit more interesting once the S9 starts to go on sale, but at the present moment I don't think it appeals to anyone but those that already happen to have L-mount glass, or want a B-cam for an S5II setup. (Also them having to rush out the 26mm f8 is a real bummer, considering Canon and Nikon could pull off much more usable 28 / 26 f2.8 pancakes. The 18-40 4.5-6.3 does look a lot more like the intended kit for the S9 but it couldn't be released in time, so they had to just push out *something* as a stopgap)
Also can’t really compare full frame to APSC fairly. Pretty different look and ecosystem. You need to compare it to the ZVE1 really and now your talking apples to apples and the Sony Tax gets you a decent camera but at $2k.
There strong rumours Panasonic will release the G100M2 with the G9M2 25 megapixel sensor, PDAF and 4k120p with limited record times, and its supposedly to be revealed before Christmas. Now these are but rumours, so far the same guy has been pretty spot on with rumours, predicting G9M2, S9 and even the GH7 months prior to launch and yes the G100D is a thing but its separate from this rumour, I for one really love M43 and hope to God there will be G100M2 and LX100M2. For photography all the older cameras are fine, but for video, a good AF is so important LOL unless you are shooting a movie and have focus puller or just love static shots.
I think the biggest issue with the S9 is that Panasonic hasn't released the 18-40 alongside it. The lens selection is the biggest trade off for the S9. Not that there are no lenses for the camera, but there is no zoom for the small size of the body, yet. The other downsides measoned by Jordan are more of a close call in my eyes. And the sensor size and stabilisation are good reasons for the higher price.
so if the ZV-E10 is usable only when stab is on.... and it crops in heavily. then doesn't that make Panny's 4k60p crop a moot point? 4k60p crop AND it's still better because of IBIS
@@WineLad oh i wholeheartedly agree. S9's compromise is framing difference between 4k30 v 60p but then the fair comparison of ZV-E10 4k30 and 60p's 1.1 crop would be "if you are using it handheld and care about having a stabilzed fottage, remember there is a crop factor for E-Stab for all framerates"
ZV-E10 II has a 1.5x apsc crop. On top of that if you use active stabilisation you incur another 1.5x crop making it 2.25x that’s less than micro four thirds. If you record in 4K50/60 you get an extra 10% crop meaning giving you 2.45 times crop. That’s 1” or super 16 territory.
@@LiveMyJourneyTomI dont believe you are correct at this, there isn't N extra 1.5x on top of the APS-C crop on the Sony, there is at most a 1.1x added on putting it at 1.6x total. The S9 had the severe crop at higher frame rates which puts it to about the same total crop. But either way this falls into the long running fallacy about the crop of the APS-C being some shortcoming. When you shoot APS-C you have lenses already bought with that crop in mind and shoot around it, similar to the ranges you buy for your full frame. The extra crop at different frame rates and resolutions then makes an extra factor to worry about when shooting and that is what is an issue. So the 1.1x more crop for 4k60 on the Sony is a barely noticeable amount to have to compensate for
Easiest answer. DJI pocket 3 if you do walk vlog and also studio vlog. 1" is enough, just make interesting content. You're gonna make content in well lit situation or use external light(s) in most case. 1" doesn't matter, many youtuber proved it with zv1. Even Markuspix loves using rx100
Of course most vloggers are gonna go with DJI Pocket 3, but the people buying ZV-10 II are more interested in chasing the gear, rather than chasing the dream.
I say skip both and go fx30 or gh7. One for stabilization and 32 float raw audio. And the other for Sony autofocus. ❤ Thank you for the homage to Days of Heaven.
I know an Asian girl who bought a white Leica camera (I think it's an M10) just to use as a decoration in the background of the pictures that she post on social media. Ironically, she uses a phone camera to take the picture 😂😂what a flex.
I don’t know any content creators that ever use headphones. The Sony is well rounded for vlogging but the S9 is more multi purpose and better at stills. Plus is fuss free. Easy to use and upload without needing to go through computer editing Side note. How does Cropping on full frame affect low light performance? The biggest thing that affects low light performance is high frame rates
As always, I love your insights and reviews (of both of you). 1. Content creation -- Open Gate gives me choice for post framing. On a small kit like that, I[m doing my monitoring on the receive end, and not in camera (with a wireless setup) .. Hot shoe is neither here nor there for me .. I"m already using the L mount series eco system. The Sony jump focus is a deal killer for me .. I'm using the S9 for run and gun (vs primary setup -- perfect for me :-)
Good points and I understand your perspective, however there is absolutely nothing 'special' about the Sony ZV-E10ii, whereas that is not the case with the S9. The Realtime LUT feature and its accompanying Lumix Lab app make the S9 a 'special' little camera, that return the fun experimental aspects to photography. THAT should be mentioned as a significant consideration in the process of comparing these 2 cameras, IMO.
The ZV-E10 is "special" for my use case. It's the cheapest and lightest interchangeable lens camera with no IBIS, records gyro data, and shoots 4K60 video. The next step up is the Pocket Cinema 4K which is more expensive and much heavier.
Also, just have to agree that the 26mm manual focus kit lens Panasonic cooked up seems...well, maybe not the dumbest choice of kit lens any manufacturer has ever paired with a camera, but it's up there. They're not wrong about putting a small wide angle prime on it, but sacrificing autofocus seems to fly in the face of the entire concept behind these cameras. I'd probably put any of the short sigma contemporary lens on the s9 and call it a day. I'm actually kinda interested in the 26mm pancake for my sigma fpL...but that is a very, very, very different camera. I think panasonic dunked hard enough with the s5ii/s5iix that nobody will hold the s9 against them, but it is (mildly) embarrassing. It feels like this was made mostly because Sony was doing "creator" cameras. Panasonic should just work on a full frame GX, and that will have more buyers (imo).
I think the idea behind the pancake lens was that if people were coming from their phones for photos and video on social media needed something wide and always in focus. It’s going to be better quality compared to their iPhones but still easy. I have a friend with a new S9 and she’s younger and loves it. The manual focus is a novelty for younger shooters and they like the “analog vibes”. Images out of it look really nice and it looks slick on the camera. It feels like an odd choice for sure and the marketing kind of went sideways but people really like it. Anson & Co put one on his FP and I’ve liked his take.
I do agree with a lot. But when you praise some stuff on Sony as depth of field button and easier menus (which is true), and in the next segment talk about grading your video... I dont think that those are the same people. If you need to have "depth of field button", you are not even aware of what grading is. I don't have those cameras, so i can't judge the rest. I wouldn't buy camera without evf, and it pains me that panasonic didnt put hotshoe on that! They could have sold aftermarket evf for it.
I'm not a big fan of the decision to not implement an IBIS to the Sony. But lets be honest, what will happen? Customers look for the ZV-E10II and within some steps, they end up with an A6700. The price got really attractive, it's a powerhorse and you end up with 4K 120p, the neural engine etc etc etc. The stabilization on the A6700 is way closer to the S9.
The only thing "wrong" with the S9 is the full frame sensor. Yes there's Sony equivalent the ZV-E1 and I think it's wrong too. The sensor is too expensive for what the beginner content creators would do, so with the (relatively) affordable price it offers, the performance would be subpar. Should've put the sensor from the G9 II and coupled with the compact & more affordable MFT lenses, it would be a great value for money.
Watching this video made something stand out to me that I hadn't considered: Sony should have included IBIS, but still not the 4k120. It would have made a lot of sense for the target audience while still keeping some distance to not cannibalize the A6700. They even could have done some weird bullshit like only enable IBIS in 4k30 with a combined digital stabilization, to further create distance while still making the overall package a lot more useful to creators. tbh I still find the II to be a letdown, but at least it's a fully baked letdown, and at least the weight gain is apparently just the weight difference between the FW50 and FZ100 batteries. I'm not sure who the S9 is supposed to be for, at this price with these features.
For me I was really hoping Sony wouldn't have put in IBIS and was super glad when they kept it out. I guess I'm one of the weird ones where IBIS ruins what I use it for
As a panny fan the s9 is just a bizarrely choice to me. I think it's Lumix trying to squeeze some more sales out of their investment in the s5ii sensor which is fine and good - but I would 99/100 recommend just getting a used s5ii over the s9. Better grip, evf, unlimited recording, more buttons, weather sealing, hot shoe, and it's not going to be *that* much bigger or heavier. At least not to make a major difference in using it. If the s9 was $1k, okay I get it, but at $1500 as a first camera, just buy a used s5ii that you can grow into.
image quality, stabilization and autofocus are a big deal to creators. that puts the Panasonic above. but the price is too high, it should compete with the canon r8.
I agree with the intro. Get an Osmo Pocket 3 if you want a high quality vlogging option. In fact, I’ve been using it for personal travel video this year and I’m always blown away by how good the results are. Shame it’s only wide, but that’s a small sacrifice for such a compact camera with so many features.
To each their own not having Ibis is a bigger omission to me than shutter having all the video features monitoring audio just to have shaky footage. Yes, the ze10 can be made into a better videography tool with gimbal and all but that defeats the purpose of a small camera at the end of the day. In the end of the day, the ZV e10 ii is more crippled in my books than the S9. As a videographer it doesn't have image stabilization as a photographer it doesn't have evf. If you want a better camera, just get the Sony a6700 it's worth the extra compared to the zve10 ii
The Sigma 18-50 optically is a great lens, but it's a weird recommendation for the ZV-E10 II because it doesn't support Active Steadyshot. As the ZV-E10 II also doesn't have IBIS, this means that you'll have no kind of stabilization at all with the Sigma.
@@olegvorkunov5400 Active Steadyshot DOES care. If you think it works with the Sigma, then you clearly haven't compared it to Active Steadyshot with a Sony lens. I have compared several Sigma lenses with several Sony lenses and video stabilization with any Sigma lens is garbage, but gimbal like with any Sony lens. There are a lot of detailed video comparisons of this on UA-cam and every single one of thhem comes to the same conclusion as me.
Love your take but I’m going with the S9. I’m heavily invested in the L-mount, have the S5 & S5m2x and will have the S1H2, hopefully during my natural lifespan. The S9 seems a great addition for casual use. The absence of headphone jack is a huge ‘awe shit’ but for my use, I love the small form factor!
The more I hear about it the more I’m unsure why the S9 wasn’t given a MFT sensor and a comeback to the GF series or given and EVF and made a follow up to the GX9 that actually is more photography-forward. Instead it’s an odd Frankenstein that kinda misses the mark on a lot of things.
If you think of it as a camera that is using a bunch of parts from the now dead S5 and minimal R&D it probably makes more sense. Pump out a cheap camera to catch some of the Fujifilm crowd and use up the old sensors before dropping the updated S2R and S2H and higher spec pro cameras?
My thoughts: Both cameras aim to grab users who want to upgrade from smartphone to dedicated cameras, as seen from their price point, compactness and marketing. People used to smartphones are also used to having a few things for granted: compactness, stabilization, styles & looks to name a few. The biggest upgrade they will see is from having a big sensor with nice natural depth of field and low light performance, and they expect all the aforementioned to be there too. Panasonic offers that. It offers a big sensor, stabilization and customizable LUT looks. The ZE-10m2 is automatically disqualified due to the lack of IBIS. I think Jordan sees it from the standpoint of a professional pipeline where the camera is a cog in the machine, so it needs to be a well-oiled, finely shaped component that fits in the pipeline. The Z-E10m2 checks more professional requirements, so it is probably more appropriate from that standpoint. But if someone wants to have a full-frame camera in their pocket, that is also a capable creative video camera for run & gun shooting without having to carry gimbals and tripods, and be able to apply powerful looks right out of the camera, then the S9 seems like the more flexible & capable camera, and arguably a more practical choice for most people.
Zv-e1 is surprisingly good ergonomically. It doesn’t force a crop at 4K50/60. It has 4k120 and 1080p 240 with full autofocus. The ibis is not as good but the dynamic active stabilisation is quite close. Image wise it will be very close. Depends what you’re looking for. S9 in super sampled 4K30 will be sharper but more digital looking. ZV image is softer but more pleasing.
Panasonic images MORE digital and Sony LESS? You’ve got that backwards. Have you ever shot with Panasonic? Very filmic image if you dial in the settings and use V-Log. And of course the new way LUT’s are starting to become demystified in the S9.
@@phoenixprjct I owned the S5 which has same sort of sensor as S9. It was very nice with the 6K oversampled to 4K. Very detailed. ZV-E1 has a 12 magapixels which after disposing of the additional vertical resolution works out around 8-9 megapixels which is the resolution of 4K video. This is similar approach to the one used in cinema cameras where the additional resolution is more of a hindrance. When comparing from zv-e1/a7s3/fx3 to most modern mirrorles cameras it looks much softer and more pleasing. I test and compare loads of cameras. It’s not just a second hand opinion. Also ZV-E1 also supports external LUTs. Does you can use them to preview your footage and to attach the lut to the video file without actually “burning in” the look if you change you mind afterwards and letting you preserve more of the dynamic range.
@@LiveMyJourneyTom Not a fan of the oversharpened Sony image and magenta color cast sorry. Lumix lets you turn down sharpness so maybe that's something you didn't play with. IBIS alone on the Lumix is enough for me to not shoot on the Sony. external LUTS have been a lumix thing for ages, it's how most of us view out recordings.
insisting on pushing zv-e10ii, i see.. i guess sales didnt go as well as they thought. imo, none of these cameras is worth it. and u didnt mention the lack of mech shutter, which is a downgrade from zv-e10, while %40 or so more in price
Dude the S9 is ~40% more expensive than the ZVE10 II, and the FF lenses would only make it exponentially worse. The ZVE10 II is incredibly capable out of the box at 1100$ with the 1650 kit lens. It's crazy sharp for 4K video and the AF and Stabilization are the best Sony has to offer atm.
Big fan. Would you guys consider reviewing the Sony Xperia 1 vi? I am considering getting it solely for its camera function (over the rx100 series and even the gr3).
I see someone compare that when no stabilization enabled, ZV-E10 II will have a small crop compare to a6700 when recoding video, is that the case? That guy said in 4K 30fps, ZV-E10 II always have around 1.1, crop already, and in 4K60fps it will crop on top of that.
Great video, Thank you! We use the Westcott Fast Flag kit as well. Love that it comes with two rod mounts and that it has a great velvet block as well as a silk. Only improvements would be a better lock on the frames.
I’ve never used a headphone jack on my ZV-E10 or s5ii… but I guess some people really care about it? I agree with you on price, if the s9 was $1200 instead of $1500, it would be so much better. The xs20 is a good option with limited lenses, L mount is better, but E mount is the clear winner. For me, the image quality and stabilization matter the most, but I already have s5ii’s and the original ZVE10, so I’m not even the proper audience for either of these cameras.
There is no real right answer for this, because it is really depends on your shooting style (or vlog style). Good thing is that customers have more choices to choose from variety of choices.
Thank for mentioning "Days of Heaven", I've searched for this movie and I've just watched it for the first time. The story is ok but nothing special for my taste, landscapes and views are wonderful
hi good review, sums up my confusion with the s9. However sales in Japan in june were good, but still half the sales of the fuji xt50, which is what i predicted.
no need to think twice S9 is the way to go.. even though ZV-e10ii is amazing camera!! i use DJI (new.tiny) mic recorder. i never liked using audio straight from camera or carrying around 2 big receivers. It’s old fashioned.. audio recorder is best way to go than later in post production just sync it.. there are apps do it for you now days.
Do you have info on the future of the older Sony 16-50 standard zoom? I guess they might be dropping older line bodies anyway, but otherwise, would Sony kit the new zoom with any remaining older bodies, or is there a problem with such combinations?
The reality here is that in 2024 these cameras are not creator cameras. They fall far short of what creators need. While the Panasonic S9 comes closer to what creators need by offering vastly superior stabilization, it still doesn't have the portability and light weight features of the Pocket 3. Sony and Panasonic will have us believe that the camera industry is in trouble. Nothing could be further from the truth as made evident by the great success of the Pocket 3. Make a great product and they will come. I bought the E10, it's a great camera for 2020. I'm not buying the E10ii.
Except the terrible autofocus on the XS-20 is almost useless for video. It can't even maintain focus on a talking head, never mind a moving scene. It's tolerable for stills, if you're willing to accept missing shots that other current brands wouldn't have a problem with. I got it as a hybrid camera but I'm not usually in situations where I have the luxury of focusing manually., so it's a big miss. The colors and ergonomics are quite nice, though.
For shts and giggles, you really should have added a dark horse third candidate from micro four thirds stable ;) Perhaps not what the camera makers would like, but the internet peanut gallery would laugh!
Idk. I think Sony wins in every respect (speaking as an L mount guy), but the lack of ibis is mystifying. Sony nailed every requirement of the demographic they're trying to target...except for the fact that those creators* tend to be the less likely to carry tripods, and more likely to do handheld shots. That's my impression of the potential consumers sony marketing seems to be targeting, at least. *I would say that for the subsegment in this demo that are purely product review creators, this sounds like the last camera they'll need to buy until VR/AR (maybe) become a thing. This is probably an unalloyed win for those specific people.
Even with an added headphone output the S9 would have been much more appealing if it had been a MFT camera rather than full-frame. Much bigger lens selection compared to L-mount. I find Panasonic's explanation for the choice of full frame preposterous -- that it is easier to explain to the layman and that MFT is for more advanced users. This is pure BS. Sony seems to have no qualms about having to "explain" APS-C crop sensors. They rightfully ignore the issue in their marketing. And Sony's marketing has yet to emphasize the size/weight/price advantages of APS-C lenses compared to L-mount equivalents. And everybody seems to ignore the fact that you can use full-frame E-mount lenses on Sony APS-C bodies if you need a certain lens's added reach or speed. I do this all the time with my A6700, itself also a bargain compared to an S9. .
Love your thoughts as always! My two cents:
I could not care less about a headphone jack. It's the same gear, same levels, and same voice I use over and over. Once I've set levels once, nothing ever needs to change. I turn everything on... Are the levels moving on screen when i talk? Yes? Cool, let's record.
The only thing that could thwart me is a dodgy cable. But even then, that would probably show in the levels bars. If im shooting weddings, or other paid work, then of course. But the s9 probably isn't for that.
And IBIS is essential. For me at least. I don't care if walking and vlogging is out-dated, what about everythinggggg else? Every shot of b-roll? Never mind the a-roll. I think it's such an oversight not to include ibis. Especially on a creator camera.
Totally agree about the lens line up on the S9! I hope there are more smaller lenses on the way. I think the f8 pancake is the worst lens I've ever used, honestly 😂
Even in your case, I think the headphone jack would be useful for getting the initial level set. The only time that wouldn't apply is if you were always recording an exactly the same situation with exactly the same level of background noise consistently. I think that would apply to very few people though. Even if they're not using the headphones while recording they could at least use it to get the audio level set up initially rather than just trusting the meters
@falxonPSN nah, never have in 7 years of making YT videos. No problems yet! I film all over the world as well as home. 3 second clip of "how does this look? How does this sound?" Done. And it isn't any more effort as I need to check framing anyway.
I have to agree. Jordan is definitely someone who really cares about audio. But working with other content creators showed me that almost everyone just uses a Wireless Go and don't even bother with levels. I think everything else than a mic jack is overpowered for these folks.
I also have never used the headphone jack on any of my cameras, the on-screen indicators are enough for me. However, I absolutely do think that the S9 is very poor value relative to the other options (including this ZV)
Absolutely on point, specially the no ibis thing considering the price. I would also add that not having a viewfinder is an absolute no for me. Not being able to compose and isolate myself, specially under the sun is a complete no go for me.
Pd: is it that expensive to put a hotshoe that they had to get rid of it? 🙄
Sometimes I feel like Lumix as well as Olympus /OM System has someone inside sabotaging most of their launches... 😅
Full time creator here. Camera manufacturers seem truly confused about what most creators need or want. From what i’ve seen, 9/10 content creators just want:
- great stabilisation
- never overheats
- reliable AF
- cool form factor
- no record limits
Very few outside of the camera niche care about:
- dynamic range
- rolling shutter
- log or raw video
- anything above 4k video
A bunch of travel creators still use the now discontinued Sony X3000 simply because it hits the first requirements and can easily fit in your pocket.
DJI understands this with their Osmo Pocket line. Pany and Sony continually offer creators slightly worse versions of their main camera lines… junk that no one ever asked for or wanted. Too underpowered for filmmakers and still too overpowered and complicated for entry level creators. In other words: pleasing absolutely no one and ending up in the trash bins of history.
Isn’t that an S5ii?
@@walrusgumboot
I love my s5iix, but the point is that it's way too big, and much of that has to do with other functions the average "creator" won't ever touch, while missing ones they would use.
I think, honestly, if they (panasonic) actually wanted to target this market, they should've done something radically different. Like, a $1000 version of the Flip cam, and don't even bother with the "camera" form factor. No articulating screen, just put a second smaller screen on the front for the subject to monitor. Basically big, interchangeable lens GoPro. Max out the autofocus, stabilization & thermal management, simplify the menus, and ignore everything else. It would look incredibly weird, but it might sell.
Or, otoh, make an mft version of the DJI osmo. I think that would stay within the approximate size limit I imagine their target demo wants. It'd solve a problem the DJI can't, and probably would be an attractive value proposition for creators who basically only want to carry around one "thing" (and maybe a zhiyun style light when necessary).
Idk, imho. 🤷♀️
You forgot:
- Excellent battery life
- Good codecs and not withholding 10bit just because it's a cheaper camera.
- Audio not being an afterthought
Which is why the Fuji X-S20 is the best hybrid camera on the market, full stop.
You'll care about rolling shutter when it ruins your shot.
You'll care about dynamic range when you can't fix things same thing with Log and 10 bit.
@@TravelerNick shot 5000+ shots on S9. No ruined shots so far
I think you might be undervaluing the stabilization. It's the biggest difference I noticed in your reviews and is really distracting on the sony.
He heard that people don't walk and vlog anymore so that's why he undervalued the IBIS, baffling evidence my friend!
@@lfcruzsierraI do. So Jordan doesn't know what he's talking about.
@@thewalkingvloggingman7152 It's very, very funny to me also.
Unusable on the Sony
Something weird is happening with their scene where they show the Sony stabilization. That’s not how the camera performs in other videos. Watch the reviews of a channel called Camera Crisis where he tries the zv e10 II and other Sony cameras with a plethora of wide angle lenses. His stabilization looks good on the zv e10 II.
I bought the S9 to put M mount vintage lenses on it. Leica monochrome and 40 LUT spots. If I want to take advantage of the PDAF, Sigma 45mm f/2.8 DG DN is a nice size lens for the body.
No mention of the displays on cameras without EVFs? Also the 6k open gate is incredibly useful for people shooting both vertical and horizontal. The app integration on the Panasonic was ignored. The recording limits on the S9 were also not mentioned. And if the high end features of the S9 are too overwhelming for creators, who is going to monitor audio or plug in XLR microphones from that crowd?
This video feels a bit rushed trying to justify Jordan's previous thoughts rather than getting a very balanced overview, unlike other videos from you guys.
Well said
The S9 menus are too overwhelming for beginners.
Also…
The S9 doesn’t let you monitor audio and connect XLR microphones
Sounds like Jordan struggling to look beyond his own usage needs.
@@walrusgumboot Those S9 audio deficits were covered.
@@Paul_Rohde I didn’t say they weren’t covered. I’m highlighting the cognitive dissonance, in one breath saying the menus are too overwhelming for beginners, but then criticising the camera for not having audio features such as compatibility with the XLR adapter, which a beginner would certainly not be looking for.
You nailed it.
Panasonic fanboy spotted. This gimped pos s9 should be 600 bucks (comparable to dji osmo 3 creator package).
I have watched MANY of your videography reviews, Jordan, and I have to say, I actually don't think most people ever monitor their audio. They just whack a microphone on, maybe do a test recording if they're smart, then go out and start filming. Only true videographers would monitor their audio. Regular people are also trying to enjoy the moment with whomever they're pointing the camera at.
Yep. Exactly.
The people who are buying this are not monitoring their audio. And if they really wanted to, the can out a DJI Mic 2 and plug headphones into the receiver anyway.
Totally agree. Most are one man band. It's not like you're gonna put a headphone on to monitor your audio while filming yourself.
legends never monitor
opinions are free... but open gate, stabi and hybrid zoom are great. does the zve10 have a front dial?
personally i thin the s9 is great to hold without the extra grip
7:28 I think people underestimate how important stabilization is if you ever do walking shoots. Sony footage is borderline unusable imho…the video just looks terrible while moving and it almost gives me motion sickness. It misses the entire point of having a dedicated camera when the footage you capture has worse overall output than a phone because the subject bounces around so much in the frame and it distracts you from what’s going on in the video.
He said that people don't walk and vlog anymore, didn't you heard him? From now on, tripod gang for life! 😂
The video loooooks terrible, the shutter is super cranked and he keeps trying to brush it off like it's no biggie.🤣
Looks way worse then DJI Pocket 3 footage.
@@lfcruzsierra Interestingly, when they were on DPReview Jordan tried out fast shutter speeds without telling viewers and...no one noticed. I think the 24FPS/shutter angle mafia are going to die out as consumers center their expectations around digital devices and fast screens instead of the conventions of film in 1930.
@@HappyHubris No one? 🤭
thank god man invented gimbals
The DJI Mic and Rode Wireless Go systems both have headphone jacks on their receivers, so if you're using those, you have at least _some_ way to monitor audio on the S9.
Try syching it to the video when shooting all day long. Remember the S9 recording limit is only 15 mins max.
@@TL-xw6fh The wireless mics send the audio directly into the camera. There is no need to sync.
Or maybe even how about just monitoring the large visual signal meters for levels and checking playback for quality? Too simple.
@@Wildridefilmsno it has no jack
@@DoubleTheDom it has no headphone jack. Both cameras have a mic jack
I think you WAY over estimate the headphone jack for "normal" users. I'm not sure if you mentioned video record time limits, but if you didn't it was an important omission.
It’s more that “normal” users don’t think they need a headphone jack. But they do.
@@80-80.nah.
@@80-80.I never ever need my headphone jack. Ever! I am that normal user.
@@iamhassan9943 Then you should start paying more attention to your audio, because for your audience, audio is more important than the picture. Even if you don’t think it is.
@@80-80. I do a lot with video but most of the time I don't use a headphone. It's kind of like with the tripod. Of course a lot of stills and videos would be better with a tripod but 99% of the normal people still don't want to carry one.
I have both and I used them for important production like shootings. It was nice to know the sound was OK and the image came from the tripod but usually I'm doing a more spray and pray approach like everybody else.
S9 is the perfect dad cam for me. I'm not a professional, I'm just an enthusiast with a lot of know how. When I'm out with my kids, my family, or I'm at family events, or most importantly, during traveling, I'm the sole photographer/videographer for the whole gang. In this fast paced day and age, a quick turnaround is what expected of me from my big family. Especially my parents who know little about editing process.
During this time, usually with my Canon r6, I had to dump the files to my laptop (got to carry one as a necessity, I hate this tbh) AFTER the event/Itinerary, edit while everyone is taking their rest, and send it late at night when everyone is already asleep. They'll look and happy in the morning, but often what I found out was that, some family member were so impatient that they have already posted the inferior (skewed angle, unflattering pose, cut off body parts, etc) images/videos, and it rendered my "work" less meaningful. Also, I'm sleep deprived while they are in a great mood thanks to the abundance of rest time 😅
With this s9, imagine what I'd do now?
For photos: I took a Pic and it immediately transfered to my phone without looking at my phone once, with the LUT that I already handpicked. Once there's a break/eating time, I just looked at the transferred images and do some cropping/image positioning, and send to all member. That's it.
For videos: I'll just edit the videos timelines, add some effects/transitions, and export from the lumix lab/other mobile editor. Saying goodbye to color grading and most importantly, bringing my damn heavy laptop to a trip.
It's gonna be perfect for me and a lot of parents alike. Those limitations are nothing for me. As long as I can attach a rode mic, it'll be fine already.
Oh and since it can also transfer raw images at a fast speed as well, I'll do my "fun" editing at my own time, for my own pleasure another time.. Without any immediate pressure!
Cheers!
This is such a valuable view, sadly....Petapixel believed that this wasn't worth discussing.
I have the S9 and i can vouch 100% what you're saying.
Just curious, what lens do you prefer to use with your S9?
Does the Lumix Lab app stay connected and automatically transfers the images off the S9 onto the phone?
This is EXACTLY what I’m doing too. Why are petapixel and others so oblivious to this usage of the S9? Baffling to me
@@janwedekyes
Have had the S9 for about two weeks now and absolutely loving it. Most fun I've had shooting a camera in a LONG time. Been getting great results.
Good for you, still not a very good camera, but the important part is to have fun!
@@youuuuuuuuuuutube You nailed it, all about fun. Honest question, is there an Instagram I can check out your work with a camera you love ? Or maybe there's a video on your UA-cam, showing some work and cameras you love. Let me know, I'd love to check it out.
And its also just another camera, if you cannot get good results with a modern camera, its not the camera thats the problem, its whats behind.
Marry the lenses, never marry the bodies. Simple as that, and remember:
LIGHT, LOCATION, LENS.
@@SMGJohn Feel you on the point about the lenses, good point. Sidenote, is there anywhere I can check out your recent photos / vids ? Maybe YT or Instagram ?
@@TopshelfJunior
I prefer not to dox myself as I keep my instagram and my website in my own name, gotta put the border somewhere, I mostly shoot Sony Alpha 900 for my portrait work and the G9M2 for video work.
I used to own the S5M2 and I had the Sigma MC adapter EF to L mount, thats one thing I really miss about that is how amazing the autofocus was in video with Canon glass, I have a huge soft spot for Canon primes, but having tried some Olympus glass I am shocked how good their primes are. Now I just keep the 18-35mm and 50-100mm F1.8 around for video work since Metabones did in fact update their firmware to enable PDAF with G9M2 and GH7.
But thats the thing, there really nothing like it on the L-mount, you either adapt or get the Leica glass which, oh man the price makes my eyes bleed.
The S9 makes the most sense as a relatively affordable B camera for an S5 II / S5 IIX. And that's probably where it will sell the most. If you use a multi camera setup for something like wedding videography, you can set up an S9 for a second angle alongside an S5 II / S5 IIX and match the footage seamlessly.
For 15 mins at a time
For this I‘d choose a 2nd S5ii instead.
@@codythep Oh, I forgot about the thermal issues. Crap.
Which is how almost everyone shoots these days. Small
Clips. When is the last time you edited a video with a 15 minute take included and didn’t cut to another clip or angle? And remember, he said second angle, not the main camera recording a ceremony or interview.
@@phoenixprjct I'm an actual professional. So all the time.
Very interesting, well made comparison. IBIS of the S9 would make me choose the S9 over the Sony. But, ultimately, both cameras come with issues which are a deal breaker for me, so I wouldn't buy either of them. Too bad, since I really would like to have a small full-frame camera. The Sigma FP is similar. Good, but not good enough.
Panny's image stabilization is unmatched
@@TeddyRumble Maybe for full frame. I'd put the a6700 for APS-C at the same price right next to it
@@iggy880 you saw the proof on Jordan's video.
@@TeddyRumble Proof of the ZV-E10 II which lacks IBIS, yes. The a6700 does not lack IBIS.
@@iggy880a6700 still miles behind LUMIX for stabe
A GX10 with g9II Specs would be better than both cameras.
I think Panasonic goes completly wrong way.
Nice test.Thanks
Oh yeah... That would be gold.
But sadly, alot of people think the mFT is not enough. Which is complete nonsense... I went to all formats, switched back from Sony FF to Panasonic mFT. The only thing im missing is the PDAF.
Hey Jordan, thanks for the review. Always love your work in front of the camera! I would say that your 'defence' of the Sony is perhaps a bit flimsy and built on less important things such as handling, ergo and audio. The S9 wins on two of the most important things that impact the final video output produced by the camera: IQ and stab. The jittery nature of the Sony video due to lack of stab and the heavy crop required to deal with it puts that camera well into the corner in my view. The final output from the S9 puts it way ahead, your honor. I agree that price is an issue. When the Panny drops in price (and there is no doubt it will when initial demand is cleared) then it's another reason to buy the S9.
I agree. Favoring Sony for insignificant things and not valuing the big ones for the S9 is just BS. Straight out the gate full frame vs Apsc should make this comparison kind of impossible to do fairly. No mention of the Sony overheating or the S9 record limits either? One of the most important issues of both cameras.
This video will never not be hilarious in hindsight.
- "Your car shakes really bad.."
- "Yes but have you seen the paint on the doors?"
I think an S9 vs A6700 would’ve been more appropriate, especially considering the higher price of full frame lenses.
But the A6700 stomps the S9, especially in continuous stills mode with a speedlight and 4k60 overheating.
PS don’t let DJI’s website fool you, the A6700 and FX30 are fully compatible with the RS3 and RS3 Pro via Bluetooth.
I know it's not exactly pocket change, but with the ZV-E1 being $1900 now, I really can't see spending $1500 on the S9 and not adding those $400 for a camera that puts everything to shame (for video) in this price range and that also has a HUGE variety of 1st and 3rd party lenses available.
Or you could get an S5II or FX30 for less than that and actually record more than a few minutes in real life temperatures :)
@@yawningmarmot ZV-E1 is actually fine if you only do internal recording, under direct California sunlight, 72 temp, it can record 4K 60fps for 30mins with no issue, it's actually heated less than my a7 IV
@@yawningmarmotI agree with the fx30. As im eying one up. I don't agree with the full frame though. Unless you are doing film and video for a living. Just not UA-cam stuff. I think most people will be ok with a mft, or a crop sensor. Cheaper overall, and full-time frame lens on a crop sensor add another 1.5 to full frame lens, snd mft adds 2 times. So less lens you need to buy. I'm also eyeing up a a6700 for pictures.
I just spent 1 hour with my sister helping her configure her e1, the bigger brother, and next to it my s9.
1. over heating is real, the e1 hears up like crazy. I expect the e10 is the same.
2. sony easy? picture profile management is a nightmare. shooting mode is again a menu run...
3. the dim screen
4. the transfer to phone with mp4 (s9)
...
I have the feeling the s9 is much better value and maybe you just do not like the cam. The review I feel has holes. Maybe you disliked the camera and have not spent the necessary time with it?
For sure. Does feel like the guys never actually gave the app experience a decent go. I think it’s a big part of the enjoyment of the S9 for me.
@@walrusgumboot Point proven by saying that, the S9 is just a gadget.
@@brugj03 why? I use it daily to take photos and videos
@@walrusgumboot For you it maybe nice, but to me it`s just an expensive gadget.
If you like it. Enjoy.
Last 15seconds were the most clever , brief and effective ad plug i've watched in a YT video
The S9's Achilles heel is pricing, at $1500 it just doesn't present a case for itself against any of its competition (or within Panasonic's lineup, even).
If it were in the ZV-E10 II's price bracket of ~$1000 I could forgive some of its flaws as a more beginner-oriented camera, but it simply doesn't compete there when it's at $1500. Instead it's against much more well-rounded cameras like the a6700, X-S20 and R8 (who are $100-200 cheaper, even!), where the S9's glaring omissions like the borderline-dealbreaker recording limits, lack of headphone jack & XLR input, lack of mechanical shutter, etc. make it truly not very compelling for the intermediate-to-advanced users that would actually want/need those features (especially at its price point).
The few benefits the S9 does have (namely 6K open-gate and stabilisation), it shares with the S5II, and for just an extra $200 it really is a no-brainer to go with the latter instead.
It'll probably be a bit more interesting once the S9 starts to go on sale, but at the present moment I don't think it appeals to anyone but those that already happen to have L-mount glass, or want a B-cam for an S5II setup.
(Also them having to rush out the 26mm f8 is a real bummer, considering Canon and Nikon could pull off much more usable 28 / 26 f2.8 pancakes. The 18-40 4.5-6.3 does look a lot more like the intended kit for the S9 but it couldn't be released in time, so they had to just push out *something* as a stopgap)
Spend a bit more, get a better camera.
Also can’t really compare full frame to APSC fairly. Pretty different look and ecosystem. You need to compare it to the ZVE1 really and now your talking apples to apples and the Sony Tax gets you a decent camera but at $2k.
Now imagine an S9 Body with the sensor from the GH7 or G9 II... super compact and powerful. 🤤
And you could use some nice MFT lenses
There strong rumours Panasonic will release the G100M2 with the G9M2 25 megapixel sensor, PDAF and 4k120p with limited record times, and its supposedly to be revealed before Christmas.
Now these are but rumours, so far the same guy has been pretty spot on with rumours, predicting G9M2, S9 and even the GH7 months prior to launch and yes the G100D is a thing but its separate from this rumour, I for one really love M43 and hope to God there will be G100M2 and LX100M2.
For photography all the older cameras are fine, but for video, a good AF is so important LOL unless you are shooting a movie and have focus puller or just love static shots.
Sounds like a GM5 MK II
@@SMGJohn Can't wait, thx for the info. Could be a great and light fun cam, when my S5 II is too bulky.
@@RealDaveTheFreak
I agree, specially when paired with the 12-35mm F2.8 II, it would be a very light and capable setup indeed.
I think the biggest issue with the S9 is that Panasonic hasn't released the 18-40 alongside it. The lens selection is the biggest trade off for the S9. Not that there are no lenses for the camera, but there is no zoom for the small size of the body, yet.
The other downsides measoned by Jordan are more of a close call in my eyes. And the sensor size and stabilisation are good reasons for the higher price.
so if the ZV-E10 is usable only when stab is on.... and it crops in heavily. then doesn't that make Panny's 4k60p crop a moot point?
4k60p crop AND it's still better because of IBIS
Yes but its still something worth mentioning. It may or may not be the aspect that tips the scales for someone.
@@WineLad oh i wholeheartedly agree. S9's compromise is framing difference between 4k30 v 60p
but then the fair comparison of ZV-E10 4k30 and 60p's 1.1 crop would be "if you are using it handheld and care about having a stabilzed fottage, remember there is a crop factor for E-Stab for all framerates"
ZV-E10 II has a 1.5x apsc crop. On top of that if you use active stabilisation you incur another 1.5x crop making it 2.25x that’s less than micro four thirds. If you record in 4K50/60 you get an extra 10% crop meaning giving you 2.45 times crop. That’s 1” or super 16 territory.
@@LiveMyJourneyTomI dont believe you are correct at this, there isn't N extra 1.5x on top of the APS-C crop on the Sony, there is at most a 1.1x added on putting it at 1.6x total. The S9 had the severe crop at higher frame rates which puts it to about the same total crop.
But either way this falls into the long running fallacy about the crop of the APS-C being some shortcoming. When you shoot APS-C you have lenses already bought with that crop in mind and shoot around it, similar to the ranges you buy for your full frame. The extra crop at different frame rates and resolutions then makes an extra factor to worry about when shooting and that is what is an issue. So the 1.1x more crop for 4k60 on the Sony is a barely noticeable amount to have to compensate for
For me IBIS is a deal-breaker, so personally I'm glad Sony kept IBIS out
Easiest answer. DJI pocket 3 if you do walk vlog and also studio vlog. 1" is enough, just make interesting content. You're gonna make content in well lit situation or use external light(s) in most case. 1" doesn't matter, many youtuber proved it with zv1. Even Markuspix loves using rx100
Of course most vloggers are gonna go with DJI Pocket 3, but the people buying ZV-10 II are more interested in chasing the gear, rather than chasing the dream.
true. but Markus pix also lugs around 30 pounds worth of lighting with him. So not necessarily a fair comparison...
I own a pocket 3, and it is superb at what it does. But the focal length is limiting, and it isn’t a hybrid product. So there’s a place for both IMO
I say skip both and go fx30 or gh7. One for stabilization and 32 float raw audio. And the other for Sony autofocus. ❤ Thank you for the homage to Days of Heaven.
S9 is the type of camera you take photos with. Like literally holding it in the photo lol
I know an Asian girl who bought a white Leica camera (I think it's an M10) just to use as a decoration in the background of the pictures that she post on social media. Ironically, she uses a phone camera to take the picture 😂😂what a flex.
S9 for family photos and short form content with smaller clips.
Sony for long form and getting the job done
I don’t know any content creators that ever use headphones. The Sony is well rounded for vlogging but the S9 is more multi purpose and better at stills. Plus is fuss free. Easy to use and upload without needing to go through computer editing
Side note. How does Cropping on full frame affect low light performance? The biggest thing that affects low light performance is high frame rates
Officially the god father of the word “Creator Camera”. This makes more sense for describing these cameras coming out.
Howdy Cam
And all the other cameras being non creator cameras..................................
As always, I love your insights and reviews (of both of you). 1. Content creation -- Open Gate gives me choice for post framing. On a small kit like that, I[m doing my monitoring on the receive end, and not in camera (with a wireless setup) .. Hot shoe is neither here nor there for me .. I"m already using the L mount series eco system. The Sony jump focus is a deal killer for me .. I'm using the S9 for run and gun (vs primary setup -- perfect for me :-)
Good points and I understand your perspective, however there is absolutely nothing 'special' about the Sony ZV-E10ii, whereas that is not the case with the S9. The Realtime LUT feature and its accompanying Lumix Lab app make the S9 a 'special' little camera, that return the fun experimental aspects to photography. THAT should be mentioned as a significant consideration in the process of comparing these 2 cameras, IMO.
Sony has lut support for video
@@DoubleTheDom Doesn't work remotely the same.
👏👏👏👏
The ZV-E10 is "special" for my use case. It's the cheapest and lightest interchangeable lens camera with no IBIS, records gyro data, and shoots 4K60 video. The next step up is the Pocket Cinema 4K which is more expensive and much heavier.
Also, just have to agree that the 26mm manual focus kit lens Panasonic cooked up seems...well, maybe not the dumbest choice of kit lens any manufacturer has ever paired with a camera, but it's up there.
They're not wrong about putting a small wide angle prime on it, but sacrificing autofocus seems to fly in the face of the entire concept behind these cameras.
I'd probably put any of the short sigma contemporary lens on the s9 and call it a day.
I'm actually kinda interested in the 26mm pancake for my sigma fpL...but that is a very, very, very different camera.
I think panasonic dunked hard enough with the s5ii/s5iix that nobody will hold the s9 against them, but it is (mildly) embarrassing. It feels like this was made mostly because Sony was doing "creator" cameras. Panasonic should just work on a full frame GX, and that will have more buyers (imo).
I think the idea behind the pancake lens was that if people were coming from their phones for photos and video on social media needed something wide and always in focus. It’s going to be better quality compared to their iPhones but still easy. I have a friend with a new S9 and she’s younger and loves it. The manual focus is a novelty for younger shooters and they like the “analog vibes”. Images out of it look really nice and it looks slick on the camera. It feels like an odd choice for sure and the marketing kind of went sideways but people really like it. Anson & Co put one on his FP and I’ve liked his take.
I do agree with a lot. But when you praise some stuff on Sony as depth of field button and easier menus (which is true), and in the next segment talk about grading your video... I dont think that those are the same people. If you need to have "depth of field button", you are not even aware of what grading is. I don't have those cameras, so i can't judge the rest. I wouldn't buy camera without evf, and it pains me that panasonic didnt put hotshoe on that! They could have sold aftermarket evf for it.
I'm not a big fan of the decision to not implement an IBIS to the Sony. But lets be honest, what will happen? Customers look for the ZV-E10II and within some steps, they end up with an A6700. The price got really attractive, it's a powerhorse and you end up with 4K 120p, the neural engine etc etc etc. The stabilization on the A6700 is way closer to the S9.
S9 is puzzling because it would be more logical as a MFT compact.
I wouldn’t have bought it as MFT
Would have totally made more sense as a MFT!
I went middle ground and bought A6700 with Sigma 18-50 f2.8 lens.
The only thing "wrong" with the S9 is the full frame sensor. Yes there's Sony equivalent the ZV-E1 and I think it's wrong too. The sensor is too expensive for what the beginner content creators would do, so with the (relatively) affordable price it offers, the performance would be subpar. Should've put the sensor from the G9 II and coupled with the compact & more affordable MFT lenses, it would be a great value for money.
Watching this video made something stand out to me that I hadn't considered: Sony should have included IBIS, but still not the 4k120. It would have made a lot of sense for the target audience while still keeping some distance to not cannibalize the A6700. They even could have done some weird bullshit like only enable IBIS in 4k30 with a combined digital stabilization, to further create distance while still making the overall package a lot more useful to creators.
tbh I still find the II to be a letdown, but at least it's a fully baked letdown, and at least the weight gain is apparently just the weight difference between the FW50 and FZ100 batteries. I'm not sure who the S9 is supposed to be for, at this price with these features.
For me I was really hoping Sony wouldn't have put in IBIS and was super glad when they kept it out. I guess I'm one of the weird ones where IBIS ruins what I use it for
The best creator camera is the Pentax Kf
You got jokes lol
It talks...............
As a panny fan the s9 is just a bizarrely choice to me. I think it's Lumix trying to squeeze some more sales out of their investment in the s5ii sensor which is fine and good - but I would 99/100 recommend just getting a used s5ii over the s9. Better grip, evf, unlimited recording, more buttons, weather sealing, hot shoe, and it's not going to be *that* much bigger or heavier. At least not to make a major difference in using it. If the s9 was $1k, okay I get it, but at $1500 as a first camera, just buy a used s5ii that you can grow into.
If my budget is S9 level, I’d just get the ZV-E1
image quality, stabilization and autofocus are a big deal to creators. that puts the Panasonic above. but the price is too high, it should compete with the canon r8.
I agree with the intro. Get an Osmo Pocket 3 if you want a high quality vlogging option. In fact, I’ve been using it for personal travel video this year and I’m always blown away by how good the results are. Shame it’s only wide, but that’s a small sacrifice for such a compact camera with so many features.
To each their own not having Ibis is a bigger omission to me than shutter having all the video features monitoring audio just to have shaky footage. Yes, the ze10 can be made into a better videography tool with gimbal and all but that defeats the purpose of a small camera at the end of the day. In the end of the day, the ZV e10 ii is more crippled in my books than the S9. As a videographer it doesn't have image stabilization as a photographer it doesn't have evf. If you want a better camera, just get the Sony a6700 it's worth the extra compared to the zve10 ii
I love the nod to Camera Conspiracies.
I’m waiting for Gh7 to drop in price. Won’t need another camera for 5-10 years.
For real, that thing is a beast.
Still have my G80/G81/G85 since 2018
@@D3AL1O yup
The Sigma 18-50 optically is a great lens, but it's a weird recommendation for the ZV-E10 II because it doesn't support Active Steadyshot. As the ZV-E10 II also doesn't have IBIS, this means that you'll have no kind of stabilization at all with the Sigma.
Active Stadyshot does not care what lens you are using. It supports Sigma 18-50 no issues.
@@olegvorkunov5400 Active Steadyshot DOES care. If you think it works with the Sigma, then you clearly haven't compared it to Active Steadyshot with a Sony lens. I have compared several Sigma lenses with several Sony lenses and video stabilization with any Sigma lens is garbage, but gimbal like with any Sony lens. There are a lot of detailed video comparisons of this on UA-cam and every single one of thhem comes to the same conclusion as me.
Love your take but I’m going with the S9. I’m heavily invested in the L-mount, have the S5 & S5m2x and will have the S1H2, hopefully during my natural lifespan. The S9 seems a great addition for casual use. The absence of headphone jack is a huge ‘awe shit’ but for my use, I love the small form factor!
The more I hear about it the more I’m unsure why the S9 wasn’t given a MFT sensor and a comeback to the GF series or given and EVF and made a follow up to the GX9 that actually is more photography-forward. Instead it’s an odd Frankenstein that kinda misses the mark on a lot of things.
If you think of it as a camera that is using a bunch of parts from the now dead S5 and minimal R&D it probably makes more sense. Pump out a cheap camera to catch some of the Fujifilm crowd and use up the old sensors before dropping the updated S2R and S2H and higher spec pro cameras?
Fuji xs20 > sony zve 10 . Fuji with the tamron 17 - 70 f/2.8 and fujinon 35 f2 wr is just a killer combo
My thoughts: Both cameras aim to grab users who want to upgrade from smartphone to dedicated cameras, as seen from their price point, compactness and marketing.
People used to smartphones are also used to having a few things for granted: compactness, stabilization, styles & looks to name a few. The biggest upgrade they will see is from having a big sensor with nice natural depth of field and low light performance, and they expect all the aforementioned to be there too.
Panasonic offers that. It offers a big sensor, stabilization and customizable LUT looks.
The ZE-10m2 is automatically disqualified due to the lack of IBIS.
I think Jordan sees it from the standpoint of a professional pipeline where the camera is a cog in the machine, so it needs to be a well-oiled, finely shaped component that fits in the pipeline. The Z-E10m2 checks more professional requirements, so it is probably more appropriate from that standpoint.
But if someone wants to have a full-frame camera in their pocket, that is also a capable creative video camera for run & gun shooting without having to carry gimbals and tripods, and be able to apply powerful looks right out of the camera, then the S9 seems like the more flexible & capable camera, and arguably a more practical choice for most people.
what's up with the shaky clouds at 4:00 ?
It's not just the clouds, it's the whole frame. No IBIS.
Jordan don’t let Chris sell you on that to get you to sit in some weeds
The real winners were the weeds we met along the way.
Looking forward for zve1 vs s9 but this not bad. I wish you would make that as well
For the rankings, it's pretty much the same except image quality will go to Sony and price will go to Panasonic.
Zv-e1 is surprisingly good ergonomically. It doesn’t force a crop at 4K50/60. It has 4k120 and 1080p 240 with full autofocus. The ibis is not as good but the dynamic active stabilisation is quite close.
Image wise it will be very close. Depends what you’re looking for. S9 in super sampled 4K30 will be sharper but more digital looking. ZV image is softer but more pleasing.
Panasonic images MORE digital and Sony LESS? You’ve got that backwards. Have you ever shot with Panasonic? Very filmic image if you dial in the settings and use V-Log. And of course the new way LUT’s are starting to become demystified in the S9.
@@phoenixprjct I owned the S5 which has same sort of sensor as S9. It was very nice with the 6K oversampled to 4K. Very detailed. ZV-E1 has a 12 magapixels which after disposing of the additional vertical resolution works out around 8-9 megapixels which is the resolution of 4K video. This is similar approach to the one used in cinema cameras where the additional resolution is more of a hindrance. When comparing from zv-e1/a7s3/fx3 to most modern mirrorles cameras it looks much softer and more pleasing. I test and compare loads of cameras. It’s not just a second hand opinion.
Also ZV-E1 also supports external LUTs. Does you can use them to preview your footage and to attach the lut to the video file without actually “burning in” the look if you change you mind afterwards and letting you preserve more of the dynamic range.
@@LiveMyJourneyTom Not a fan of the oversharpened Sony image and magenta color cast sorry. Lumix lets you turn down sharpness so maybe that's something you didn't play with. IBIS alone on the Lumix is enough for me to not shoot on the Sony. external LUTS have been a lumix thing for ages, it's how most of us view out recordings.
insisting on pushing zv-e10ii, i see.. i guess sales didnt go as well as they thought. imo, none of these cameras is worth it. and u didnt mention the lack of mech shutter, which is a downgrade from zv-e10, while %40 or so more in price
osmo pocket 3 is better for vlogs, why need fullframe or apsc...?
Dude the S9 is ~40% more expensive than the ZVE10 II, and the FF lenses would only make it exponentially worse.
The ZVE10 II is incredibly capable out of the box at 1100$ with the 1650 kit lens. It's crazy sharp for 4K video and the AF and Stabilization are the best Sony has to offer atm.
can the Sony ZV-E10 do external ssd recording
Big fan. Would you guys consider reviewing the Sony Xperia 1 vi? I am considering getting it solely for its camera function (over the rx100 series and even the gr3).
I see someone compare that when no stabilization enabled, ZV-E10 II will have a small crop compare to a6700 when recoding video, is that the case? That guy said in 4K 30fps, ZV-E10 II always have around 1.1, crop already, and in 4K60fps it will crop on top of that.
Great video, Thank you! We use the Westcott Fast Flag kit as well. Love that it comes with two rod mounts and that it has a great velvet block as well as a silk. Only improvements would be a better lock on the frames.
Also just wanted to ask if Chris enjoyed being the videographer and using the GH7?
I’ve never used a headphone jack on my ZV-E10 or s5ii… but I guess some people really care about it?
I agree with you on price, if the s9 was $1200 instead of $1500, it would be so much better. The xs20 is a good option with limited lenses, L mount is better, but E mount is the clear winner.
For me, the image quality and stabilization matter the most, but I already have s5ii’s and the original ZVE10, so I’m not even the proper audience for either of these cameras.
S9 is already $1200 on eBay and Japanese websites. Just FYI, at $1,000 on sale at B&H I’m pretty sure it will sell out just like all the Fuji stuff.
I love the S lineup, I have two of them, but the S9 is a non pro camera but with pro pricing
$1,500 is pro pricing? On what planet? Do you know what the S1R cost new 5 years ago?
There is no real right answer for this, because it is really depends on your shooting style (or vlog style). Good thing is that customers have more choices to choose from variety of choices.
A7CII + 24-105 f4 OSS
Far more money
A1 + 24-70 gm ii + 12-24 f2.8 + 100-400 gm
🤡🤡🤡
@@bozoc2572 Prefer A9iii
Or you could get an FX30 + 18-105 f4 PZ and basically have a camcorder :)
Thank for mentioning "Days of Heaven", I've searched for this movie and I've just watched it for the first time. The story is ok but nothing special for my taste, landscapes and views are wonderful
thank you for the video as usual !
I myself will wait for a "full frame GM5" not a "GM1"
hi good review, sums up my confusion with the s9. However sales in Japan in june were good, but still half the sales of the fuji xt50, which is what i predicted.
Yes! Let's hear it for the portable cloud!
12:17
now can only wait for what canon will comes up with R50 mk. II
As for now I'm still gonna hold onto my OG ZV-E10
no need to think twice S9 is the way to go.. even though ZV-e10ii is amazing camera!!
i use DJI (new.tiny) mic recorder. i never liked using audio straight from camera or carrying around 2 big receivers. It’s old fashioned.. audio recorder is best way to go than later in post production just sync it.. there are apps do it for you now days.
I’m not seeing shutter angle option on the S9 as you mentioned. One can only dream.
You need to turn it on in the menus
@@WildridefilmsJust found it. Thanks Wildride. 🎉
Why they still can't make monitoring audio through Bluetooth???????
Loved the video as usual! Just FYI there's a typo in the autofocus award section. It repeats lens choice.
Well, run the transcript and see if he mentioned before saying things maybe 😊
Do you have info on the future of the older Sony 16-50 standard zoom? I guess they might be dropping older line bodies anyway, but otherwise, would Sony kit the new zoom with any remaining older bodies, or is there a problem with such combinations?
I would like to drink a beer with Jordan... not so much Chris. He gets to "turnt" in the end of year episodes 😂
Great video as usual
Loved this video. Jordan is far less annoying than Chris.
Great video! Totally justified your thoughts on the S9 crap camera.
The reality here is that in 2024 these cameras are not creator cameras. They fall far short of what creators need. While the Panasonic S9 comes closer to what creators need by offering vastly superior stabilization, it still doesn't have the portability and light weight features of the Pocket 3. Sony and Panasonic will have us believe that the camera industry is in trouble. Nothing could be further from the truth as made evident by the great success of the Pocket 3. Make a great product and they will come. I bought the E10, it's a great camera for 2020. I'm not buying the E10ii.
I don't think the "AI" chip is a necessary thing to avoid jumping to background, maybe Sony just didn't spend much time calibrating their AF this time
Yeah. Plenty of other models in the line that lack said chip and still have rock-solid AF.
I completely agree !!!
Does that mean that Sony ZV-E10II is meant to be attached to a gimbal?
If you want to go aps-c the Fuji XS-20 destroys the Sony ZV-E10ii and does not cost more. Should have been in this comparison.
Sony's own a6700 is a way better buy than the ZVE10ii.
Except the terrible autofocus on the XS-20 is almost useless for video. It can't even maintain focus on a talking head, never mind a moving scene. It's tolerable for stills, if you're willing to accept missing shots that other current brands wouldn't have a problem with. I got it as a hybrid camera but I'm not usually in situations where I have the luxury of focusing manually., so it's a big miss. The colors and ergonomics are quite nice, though.
Is it just me or does the fence at 8:30 make it look like Jordan's on a Halo ring.
Thanks for the video
Great shirt, Jordan 👌
THE EXPENSIVE KODAK CAMERA?! YOOOOOOO IM EXCITED
Loving s9
S9 should have been gx10 or gx9 mk 2 with the g9 2 sensor.
No word on record time limits?
From these two cameras I'd choose A6700 :)
7:26 where is the Westscott thingy to avoid these ugly shadows in Jordan's sweaty face?
Neither. Id go with a fp cinema camera....
For shts and giggles, you really should have added a dark horse third candidate from micro four thirds stable ;) Perhaps not what the camera makers would like, but the internet peanut gallery would laugh!
For the price the zv-e10 II is a no brainer.
Idk. I think Sony wins in every respect (speaking as an L mount guy), but the lack of ibis is mystifying. Sony nailed every requirement of the demographic they're trying to target...except for the fact that those creators* tend to be the less likely to carry tripods, and more likely to do handheld shots. That's my impression of the potential consumers sony marketing seems to be targeting, at least.
*I would say that for the subsegment in this demo that are purely product review creators, this sounds like the last camera they'll need to buy until VR/AR (maybe) become a thing. This is probably an unalloyed win for those specific people.
Even with an added headphone output the S9 would have been much more appealing if it had been a MFT camera rather than full-frame. Much bigger lens selection compared to L-mount. I find Panasonic's explanation for the choice of full frame preposterous -- that it is easier to explain to the layman and that MFT is for more advanced users. This is pure BS. Sony seems to have no qualms about having to "explain" APS-C crop sensors. They rightfully ignore the issue in their marketing. And Sony's marketing has yet to emphasize the size/weight/price advantages of APS-C lenses compared to L-mount equivalents. And everybody seems to ignore the fact that you can use full-frame E-mount lenses on Sony APS-C bodies if you need a certain lens's added reach or speed. I do this all the time with my A6700, itself also a bargain compared to an S9. .