Z Review - My New 2,400wpc Living Room Amps
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- Опубліковано 23 чер 2018
- [amzn.to/2ljiFI1] -- Crown 2502 (but any will do!)
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CROWN 1502 Review - • Z Review - Crown XLS15...
[amzn.to/2yq23rQ] -- Behringer A500 Amp
[amzn.to/2lhYR8e] -- Swan DIY kit (aka The Speakers at the Start)
[ohmspeaker.com/speakers/walsh...] -- Ohm Walsh
[emotiva.com/collections/amps] -- Emotiva Website
[www.schiit.com/products/vidar] -- Schiit Vidar
[amzn.to/2JNYOQ0] -- BlueTac
[amzn.to/2Mwvvz7] -- RCA to XLR Adapters
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"i need more power, 600w per channel isn't enough for me. also whats that whistling noise in my ear?"
Zeos, (an intellectual) 2018
nano®(ch) haha maybe it is tinnitus? 😉
hahaha
Actually, it is more risk of damaging your ears with a clipping underpowered amp than an amp with lots of headroom.
@@oysteinsoreide4323 oh..so you mean loudness doesnt matter at all ?
@@aneeshprasobhan The problem is that when something is clipping, you get distorion, you will get peaks that are much higher than the rest of the music. Loudness does matter, but of course everybody can destroy their hearing by cranking up too much, and that goes for most audio gear. But 600W is more safe than 50W on demanding speaker load. Listening levels should be below 85 dB for normal music listening regardless of the power of the speaker. But a weak amplifier might have to be cranked up to max to get 85 dB out of the speakers. And there is no headroom left in the amplifier for the transients that comes.
This is the part where Z edits in slide whistle sounds to make it look like he's not insane. :)
LOL'd at "This is the best video ever, 'cause I'm going to shoot a 'whistle man'."
What's a Whistle man?
Hey! Just wanted to say that I’m really happy i found this channel!
I love sound but I’m still a beginner, and I’m enjoying your show!
Nice content!!
Keep it up!
I really want to thank you for finally convincing me to move towards Pro amplifiers for home use. I hesitated for a long long time...then finally took the plunge. Granted I had to add an ART CleanBox Pro for my Crown XLS1500 due to VERY low voltage output from my Onkyo receiver, but after that it was pure gold! Absolutely amazing, open sound stage, crystal clear audio for both movies and music, and more power/$$$ that I can believe. Thanks so much!
The sound is there
David Norris sounds like a knife
it sounds digital
Maybe he added the sound in post?
"I'm going to shoot a whistle man"
~Zeos 2018
how are chewbaca’s ears still ok ??
She just said.. WHAT, meow
They genuinely probably aren’t she an old lady anyways 🤷🏽
Never stop making videos. I love just sitting back and watching the whole thing. I learn so much. You give all of your fans such high quality content
great amps and fixed facia ! i've got the A500 amp as my own Hifi amp, great " audiophile" secret :)
I'm extremely happy with my class D amp by a company called D Sonic. Drives my Maggie's like a champ with plenty of headroom. It's 1500 watts at 8 ohms and 2100 Watts at 4 Ohms. Dual mono in a single chassis. And it never gets hot.
I've watched this video a couple of times and I can't, for the life of me, believe that there's enough of a power supply to produce that kind of wattage and be coherent.
The Infinity subs get 525 watts each since the driver is 4Ω. Which is enough.
Z Reviews can they all together run crysis?
Just buy a sansui ba5000
I contacted Emotiva about 2ohm load for my Martin Logan and they said that it should handle it but that they just don't test for it because of cost.If you want real power you go with QSC only problem is that you have to turn on manually, Class D you wont notice any single difference , Studios and cinemas use class D
if only i could use the ever so efficient and light class D at festivals, alas given their ability for voltage irregularities cooking classD's am stuck with 30-40kg class A/Bs, H's and "i"s
Have you ever heard of an amp company named ATI? They do OEM/ODM work for a number of top tier boutique audio companies. Their amplifiers are module like the Emotiva ones. They are also made in the USA.
Another American company worth mention is Parasound. Perhaps you could contact them for a review sample?
Those amps look like something out of blade runner now.
I approve
Cowboy Bebop Swordfish II painting above the TV/Monitor!!!
Very clever project. very top shelf '80s look. A vaporwave hit.
Very nice amplifiers and thank you for sharing! I'm learning so much from your videos.
But I'm curious what device you're using when you shut down the light and turn up the volume. I hear you say Alexa, but I cant really find what it is. Could you tell me what it is and where to buy?
I used to have 6 Macro Tech (crown) 3600's amplifiers in a active 3 way bridged mono system; running JBL's - if memory serves me correctly we were dropping ~1Kw over each transducer with remarkable damping rates.
It was an awesome system that (sometimes) rivaled my ATC SCM 150's.
Moral of the story; can't go wrong with crown amps.
They are very well designed.
Those old MacroTechs were beasts. I installed lots into dance clubs back in the day. They kicked hard. Often with the older JBL scoop bins 4520 before we started using the 4720s later.
I have a power cord that has a few inches of the outer sheath removed so I can clamp a current meter on one of the leads to measure the current. Class A is about 25% efficient, Class AB is about 50% efficient, Class D about 85% efficient. So that could give you an estimation of the max output power you could get.
All the Headroom :D ..Very happy for u ..that you have the 'POWAH' now :D
Nice review! very informative.
Also I need some advice, all suggestions are appreciated. I'm thinking of getting rid of my old receiver and replace it with an amp like these for my klipch towers.. however what should I use for audio output to the amp? my receiver have no pre out so in this case I need to change it anyways.
If I understand this correctly I need just a simple DAC right? And also I want to be able to output audio from my computer via tos-link or rca, and a bluetooth function. any recommendations?
Brilliant solution!
I bought the crown xls1502 amp a year or so ago and I really like it depending on what I am trying to do with it. It does have an audible hiss/buzz when it's on and you aren't running sound through the speakers or you are doing low level listening. That hiss/buzz is exacerbated if you use the .775 input sensitivity. I bought mine because i had a 5 channel amp and needed two more channels for surrounds, but found that the hiss in my surround speakers drove me crazy so I had to find another solution. Using the Crown for a sub now and it functions perfectly in that capacity.
get an ART CleanBox Pro and you'll a) eliminate your hiss b) be able to go from rca inputs to xlr outputs c) reduce the gain settings on your XLS 1502 amp thereby eliminating your hiss (set to about 1 o'clock) d) boost your output signal with the cleanbox to very high levels allowing you to use the 1.4 input voltage instead of the 0.775 e) be happy and thank me later!!! :-)
Jinx Canada will all this actually work? I tried two different crown amps and couldn't get either to not have a horrible hum or buzz when trying to use them conjunction with my denon avr. would love a solution that would work.
Zeos is the only other channel I would patreon, the first being the water jet channel. Problem being that my debit card is basically empty most of the time as it only has money when I want to buy something epic at which point I spend all my monies. Throw ontop of that, my income is random and I can't do any payment's on a given day. At any rate, love you Zeos! Every time I get that audiophile bug I have to scratch it and watch your video's. Though I try not to a whole lot because my wallet has ADD and can't focus on one place let alone a saving's account. This video makes me want to tear apart my plebishly competent HT setup and start over with a rack mount.
oh, random thought. If you ever want to get maximum satisfaction out of your setup have a listening session with a blind man who has similar tastes in music, it helps if he hasn't experienced much hifi if any. Such a satisfying experience
You had to say Prodigy............. haven't heard that in I don't know how long. I'm about to clip my DX7 and/or HE400i's............ smack my bitch up! Oh what are your thought's on an equalizer, I found your friends channel Metal571 and he gives a tutorial on an EQ. My take is I wanted to buy a pair of m1060's until I EQ'd my hifiman's. I don't know what I'm doing on it but the signature is so much nicer.
meh, headphones are still lacking in bass
If you have to eat ramen EVER out of a Styrofoam cup don't bother throwing money at me. Save it for food my Brenden
Great review. How's the noise floor on those amps? I just got a pair of polk rtia9's and was thinking of getting 2 of the xls 2502s to run off my marantz sr5012. Someone told me it was a bad idea due to noise floor.. Is this true
I have a question about your crown amps: Do have the crossovers set on your amps, and if so where? Or should I just let the speaker crossovers do the work?
It's only a matter of time before you have two Funktion One Dance Stacks on either side of your screen. I DJed a handful of times on a 120kW Funktion One system. Imagine taking the amount of power it takes to run a cul-de-sac of upper middle class homes and putting it into speakers pointed right at your face.
As long as you have a Gain control I would have no issue. All the safety measures.
I took my sound meter to the club in question once. The middle of the dance floor was about 112dB, which isn't sufficient to cause pain, but is definitely instantly damaging to hearing. Custom sound-attenuating earplugs are a must. If I crank 250 Watts/channel through my KEF Q350s + 1500W into My Dayton Audio sub (Dayton Audio is right down the street from me, #937Fam), I hit about 95dB in my large living room, for reference.
Who needs Funktion 1's when you can get the RC1 system instead?
Thank you for this video it is the answer to my problems!
your neighbors are gonna love those
My amp (Naim Supernait 1) is only 90W @ 8ohm and 149W @ 4 ohm. It drove my Magnepan 1.7s to painful volumes at the 12 o'clock position.
Thanks for doing what you are doing Z, I have bought HD 600 because of you and I'm very happy with them! I want to make another purchase in similar price/quality/comfort, but closed-back (for work). What would be the counter-part of HD600 in similar price range, comfortable and sounds great? Thanks
do you have a smart outlet or something with a power conditioner? I'm curious how you control it and conditioning benefit
You should do a video with your old amp/speaker/song/dac etc combo and recreate it with the new amp. I'd be very curious to see if we could hear a difference between the Class A/B vs the Crown Class D.
Chubbaca has learnt how to whistle OMG hilarious
i don't see those pushing anywhere near that wattage. just thinking out loud, 120v main on lets be generous 20amp breaker will supply a max of 2400watts and maybe a hair more before the breaker trips. so unless you have each one on its own breaker then that "2400watt" rating is maybe a lie or musical max with clipping.
also see on the back just above the plug "425w" so i am assuming that's what the draw from the wall. if so and with the ~87% efficiency a class D amps have, i'm seeing maybe a max of 360watts rms.
Greg Mushen Hard Agree.
Greg Mushen didn’t he say he had dictated circuits?
Keith Raufer i don't know, im thinking he is living in a nice apartment and i doubt they would be willing to run a dedicated circuit for him. love his reviews just some info could be clarified more.
Greg Mushen IIRC Z had 20A circuits installed.
And everyone:
Sure, your 2400W amp will trip a breaker IF it runs a circa 2200W sine wave for a few seconds, but will deliver 2400W into any _normal_ music signal, i.e. anything above a certain liberal crest factor (anything above 4:1). The reason is that the PS filter capacitors will deliver full power with steady AC power well below 2400VA. That power will decrease steadily only if the voltage of those caps runs down and _only_ when there is a similar, _steady_ AC input power decrease.
Remember, Zeos ran PA sound with his dad for years: power calculations are critival in that application. Of course he's still Zeos, so that remains an issue. 😉
None of you know wtf you're talking about, it's hilarious..CLASS D high wattage work by shifting the sample frequency at which they operate up to
extremely high frequencies. In doing so, they use MUCH smaller power
transformers. I suggest you so called "experts" to look up BigDwiz where he shows and even proofs you little fools wrong, he puts Class D amps on the benchmark that exceeds by far 1000watt RMS without clipping in a car amp (small enough for ya)
None of you understand how a class D works which is obvious. Crown is well known in PA world to drive speakers none of you will ever own nor touch in watts driving huge venues. The specs are very real and tested and proven...
I think you should check out the Thomann T.Amp TSA 4-1300. It can run 4x1220w at 8ohm, 4x1670w at 4ohm, and if you bridge it, it does 2x4000w at 8ohm!
The amazing thing is that this amp is available for only $485, very low for that kind of power.
Also, it is a 4 channel amp, so may be useful for some form of surround sound?
Good evening Zeos, I also use a Crown XLS2502 for a subwoofer in one of our rooms. I recently purchased a few of these XLS2502 amps to use as mono block amps in a home theater (same as you). To my dismay, I quickly found the hiss (noise floor?) to be very noticeable. (various speakers tested)
Have you not noticed the hiss when these are run full range? I took one away from all my equipment to a spare room, with only a small speaker hooked up (no signal cable), and they still hissed just as loudly!
Song at 36 minutes ua-cam.com/video/yeQPx-FrYZw/v-deo.htmlm3s
All Apologies - Vitamin String Quartet
open.spotify.com/track/6KI13QrArDv0tTNtLzKbjg
If anyone else needed to know.
Do you have a dbC meter? What listening levels do you push these speaker?
I love class a a/b, in winter all i have to do is turn my amps on and they heat the room in no time. In summer not so much fun, on a very hot day i don't turn them on without a fan blowing on them.
Wow, you TV folks are crazy. Some would call me a audiophile on a budget but 3000+ watts is insane numbers. At the moment I'm running 200 watts total and waiting on my QSC Amp that will take 4 speakers (Infinity RS IIIa's) up to 1000 watts at 4 ohms. I can already rattle the walls now....
I absolutely love your videos. I purchased my Crown XLS amps and the Behringer A500 both on your recommendation and I am blown away with how good they are. I will advise you though if your viewers have older Crown amps such as the XLS1500 you can achieve great success in a home cinema area by using an ART Clean Box Pro RCA to XLR converter and line level amplifier. This is how I got around the 1.4v output needed to drive the XLS1500 properly (the XLS1502 obvious can adjust down to 0.775v input)
Keep up the great work! I'm like you....I realized a long time ago that you can get incredible even audiophile sound quality at home by using professional gear if done right. Great stuff!!!
Try some Magnepan Panel Speakers now that you have the wattage!!!
2 years later still no magnepan review. :(
@@jorgefernandez281 my review of the LRS is 🥵. So good. My friend was giddy when he sat in the sweet spot and let it rip.
genius mod to these amps. they look b e a utiful now.
Whats the wattage at the wall for everything (itemized if separate pls...pls)
I bet your neighbours love you dude!
Z Man, enjoy your reviews. Quick question, how are you sending the same signal to all your Crowns...are you using the 1/4 inch outputs on the Crowns?
Awesome video Z. Im going to make those amp faceplates for my 2x 2002’s. Is there any way to make them read how hard I’m pushing the amp? I don’t want to clip my sealed UM18’s or amps. I’ll be running from a XMC-1 to a miniDSP 2x4 to my amps, all in XLR.
Z do you know about the old jamo d265 and d365 speakers I've had them in the U.K. For about 20 years and they sound great 👍🏼I love jamo
Hey I have a question are you using xlr plugs to your receiver with your new crown amps?
@Z reviews so you control the volume via the minidsp hd? What is your volume indicator (besides your ears, obviously)? Thanks
Do they double their distortion when you bridge them? S/n levels when bridged?
This is classic "The whistle man" ctfurof . Tears still come to my eyes hilarious
I’m about to buy one of the crowns that your using to power my 8 12” Skar Audio subs.
It states that it does 1200 per channel at 2ohms. Does it actually do 2 ohms with no issues
Thumbs up for the awesome intro track! Lost Boys forever!
"Breathing. My amplifiers aren't stressed anymore..." Exactly. There is a benefit, an aural, sonic, musical benefit to having much more power available than one needs. That headroom is what gives life and vitality, a richer 3-D depth to the sound coming from speakers. Better speakers reveal the benefit better, and I am very happy for you that you discovered the Ohms. Its like the difference in sound (talking amps, here) between mp3 VS flac. There is a big difference in the sound of the two file types. It is in the detail of the music, the little things like the sound from the last three inches of a guitar string. Its there, but very few people hear it, and of the few who detect it, they do not know its origin, only that it is there. Their ears detect the vibrations (if present, all hardware considered, etc.) More power, clean and unstressed as you noted, is part of that delivery system. Love your passion for sonic excellence, Z.
28:37 really looks like a face. Nite setup man.
23:16 you can say that again. Crown professional are made for driving huge ass PA systems in venues or rehearsal rooms 😂 but damn dawg, I ain't never heard anything but praise for crown
With that said; I think a couple of Electrocompaniet mono block would do nicely in your livingroom
So is that RMS power or max because max is like nothing it should not be on anything ever
I enjoyed your review of the PS Audio Sprout 100. Good Job! But clipping your speakers is very different than blowing the drivers. Clipping is when your amp does not have sufficient power to reproduce the needed frequency at the chosen volume. It is also bizare that you would need so much power. How loud do you listen? I have a 30W amp and never run out of power on my Martin Logan Montis speakers and it gets damn loud.
Hi zeos, do you know if the smsl m7 is better than the aune x1s or will you review it?
hi, wich is the player in your screen with the wallpapers on...?
But if you set the volume noe that low, would not one amp of these in stereo be more than enough?
For 6" bookshelves? yes, and over kill at that
Lmao that AC unit complaining about something, almost like it was arguing with you.
Zeos -- Amplifier class aside, Are you OK with the Crowns running the signal through a DSP? Do you notice any effect on sound quality due to the extra processing? Thanks.
i mean I am running everything through a miniDSP hd and then this.. So I think as long as you have it all disabled you won't be able to tell a difference.
Great soundtrack!
I thought it was the lower the ohm the easier it is to power. Our show that only apply to headphones?
I want to get for of those but what do I hook these up too. I for the front and the others for the back wide and my front and back heights
What do your neighbors think when you're over there clipping your amps?
ART TPS II 2-channel Tube Microphone Preamp
2-Channel Microphone/Instrument Preamp with Variable Valve Voicing, Variable Impedance, and Output Limiting
Zeos, this ART TPS II supports balanced line level inputs. This valve pre-amp has variable valve voicing so you can better match audio material you play though it.
Since the Shp9500s seems to be discontinued (it’s been out of stock for a couple weeks and prices are over $100), what is the next best headphones for $60? I need a 3.5mm jack to use it with a boom pro
Its going to be a search starting now. Sivga has some nice ones. Not TRULY open however
i downloaded the behringer a500 manual pdf, and look here:
RMS power bridge mono 8ohms with 1%THD is 375watts. that is why you feel the low power on this amp.
new Crown 2502 amp is 1550 watts 8ohm bridged 0.5%thd and 4ohm listed as you say.
easier to compare when you use 8 ohms numbers on both. also lower distortion on the crown, meaning that the behringer is actually lower than 375 watts if you want to play it without distrion.
3:21, Like that pic on the TV XD
27:45 remember when that was a futuristic thing for rich people, now a guy with a cat in his apartment is doing it
Are these ratings full bandwidth 20 to 20K or at 1 Khz?
So what do you filter/crossover to those amps with? Or you are just pumping full range thru?
Anyway I am very curious about your signal chain.
Wish I were smarter.
I remember you mentioning crossover before amplifier but cannot wrap my head around the chain.
I usually test in Direct. But for just listening with the subs I crossover with various slopes at around 40hz. So the subs only do the really low stuff.
Crown has build in crossovers..
could these be used to amp a vinyl record player?
I HAVE BEEN WAITING!!!! Clicked so fast i broke my mouse.. worth it for another Z video!!!
"Nothing good can happen from clipping anything" - I present to you, the guitar amplifier
True, but you're clipping the input signal or the preamp section of the amplifier. If you clip the output side or the power amp section of a guitar amp things will go bad. Most guitar speakers are very efficient and don't need much power to be loud anyway. Tube amps can also handle some clipping and still sound good, maybe better in some cases.
People of the Jewish faith would also disagree with Z on this point.
I've found if you set the gain to about medium on the preamp and put the master of the power amp right at the point of break up and get the tubes and output transformer all nice and saturated it has a wonderful sound.
So... What you are telling me is that my Sprout 100 will not be enough to drive the pair of Walsh 1000's I have on order?
Nice set up.
How in all hell did you run out of power with 600 watts per channel in a regular living-room? Must be either a weak source (I know it shouldn't be in your case), or something about the 110 mains power in the US is under-supplying the amps, because I've had some of the same speakers connected to my Pioneer Reference Series M90, which is A/B ~200 watts@8ohm, weighs 21kg, (in Denmark, so 220v power), and it rips those speakers a new one, without breaking a sweat. At normal listening volume (~80dB) in a similar sized room the VU's rarely go much above 10watts...
I don't know how this makes sense, but I'm utterly bewildered... I guess thats just Zeos for ya...
I saw another comment which said that the Behringer amp's actual output is way lower than 600 watts, something closer to 125 per channel the way he was using them.
My small iloud micro monitors can do 80dbC and that is freakin loud, so i also dont understand this..
Those Behringer a500’s are a joke. They are pushing about 60 Watts a channel into 8 and 100 into 4. Bridged less than 200 at 8 ohms. They are only $199 dollars each.
Well I would have given possibly against the amps if the Vidar didn't show up at a rated 400w in bridge and underpush against the A500. And low signal is possible except the MiniDSP HD shows me to the decibel what is happening. So I have run the number and figures and I am telling you just what I know from testing live in my room.
200 or not the parts inside are real. You can see the transformer and the caps. You have to know what kind of REAL build costs most amps entail. Behringer is just taking the smallest cut to corner the market.
Bad ass zeos!!! I love my 2502s!!
Hi, I have the ohm 2000 speakers like yours. But I can only afford one of those amps, and I don’t have room for two anyway. Is one of those Crown amps in stereo enough power for these speakers without clipping?
I'm sat here in complete darkness because you told Alexa to turn off all the lights lmao.
I need a good suggestion on some good amps to bi amp my JBL CS 3115s. Any thoughts. Thanks.
Tha Watt boost you get with using these amps in mono bridge mode is insane.. ;-)
When can we expect that SVS tower sub review?
Someone once told me that a clipping amp sends line level current through to the speaker. Is this true?
When you are Clipping you are sending a Square Wave (if you clip it bad enough) instead of a Sinusoidal Wave. On a sidenote most Recievers put out between 2-4v/RMS, and on the low end of that scale you won't even be getting full power out of some Amps. Other then that I think your someone was fucking with you.
Given that they’re fan cooled and made to be racked, have you considered dropping like $200-300 on a pair of wood cases for them? I’m not saying that it would magically turn then into a pair of ‘70s hifi amps but it would go a long way toward dressing them up for fancy home duty.
I'm running a Pair of "Pro Audio" Bag End TA15's in my living room. They have a 103db sensitivity. I get them to CRANK beyond anyone would want them to with a 4 watt SET amp. George Wright 3.5 2A3 SET monoblock amps to be exact. He passed away alas but they were not that expensive when i purchased them new 15 years ago. All this speak of thousands of watts boggles my mind when i am driving these Bag End speakers to clean high output levels with only 4 watts. And it sounds fantastic! Is there THAT much of a difference between speaker sensitivities where you can kill with these speakers with only 4 watts and yet be clipping with speakers that are less sensitive with 600 watts? I don't get it
i own the crown xls 1002 and 1502 and i might consider getting another xls 1502 or 2502
Doesn't the Mini DSP convert analog input to digital then back to analog essentially rendering whatever dac you use before useless?
For music I use the DAC built into the MiniDSP HD. So it is very much in charge for music. Movies go through the dual conversion as they use the Analog input of the Receiver's Pre-out to funnel signal to the front channels.
Honestly can't tell it is happening.
I have couple of the Crown 2502's. I can max the volume without pushing a signal to the amp... I only hear a slight hiss with my ear almost against the tweeter. Not enough that you could even hear in a dead silent room. I have had vintage audio equipment of pristine status that was on par with the Crowns. My speakers sensitivity are 98db SPL too. I have owned quite a bit of high end gear. The Crown's can hold their own. For the money, they can't be beat for power, efficiency and features. Not yet... The Crowns match very well with the Emotiva PT-100 (which has a decent DAC built in, or use of a different good DAC (Aune X8 Magic DAC, JDS Labs EL DAC II, The ES9038Q2M SABRE32 Reference DAC, AK4490 - AK4499 etc.) and also using tubes as a buffer, if you want a fuller bodied richer sound. I would use good quality JBL or Klipsch speakers at least. People can get Audiophile grade gear on the cheap these days!!! What can be had for $5,000 today, would have cost you $50,000 or more 20yrs ago. Think about it...
Since the signal going into the crowns has to be converted back to digital, does that nullify any high end dac used upstream. Or is the high end dac upstream still helping the final product do to speak once its all converted back to analog again? Just wondering if this amp will essentially become my dac and render my processors dac useless?
Ever figure out the phantom sound which to me sounded like feedback?
What is that giant orange vu meter/eq display? It does not seem like the one linked in the description
Is a fake af fireplace is what it is.
Prinz Eugen on the screen
I APPROVE ! :D
Around @5:40 I blew a speaker and it was partly my fault. Ummm... was the cat responsible too?