Thank you! What really is click bait? I believe it is the false promise of content that doesn't exist. You take the time to click into a video and discover, after taking even more time, that there's little of value. With so many other options, this is frustrating. However, because there ARE so many options for the potential viewer, quality content gets drowned out, lost under the weight of highly promoted channels and their hyperbole. We want to compete for your attention, but we want even more to to provide interesting and informative videos that make you want to come back and subscribe.
@@TechIngredients I'm perfectly fine with clickbait of this sort. It's kind of borderline with this as your thumbnail says "world best... (for 115 dollars)". If you called it something like "amazing value speakers for 115 dollar" it wouldn't be clickbait, but it's also not an eye-catching title. Anyways, keep up the good work! ;)
@CybpnK If you read it as "the world best speaker *FOR 115 dollars"* then it might be true, but if you read it as "the world best speakers" then it's far less likely and most definitely up for debate. Either way the concept is really interesting.
@@DonJohn87_YT "World's Best DIY Speakers!" Obviously high-end manufactured speakers are going to be nicer and considered standard professional equipment. Might be missing a word but all the similarly titled videos on youtube are a joke compared to the amount of research and development put in to these videos (I think it's a justified title.) These are probably equivalent or better quality than a lot of media speakers you can get at a much higher price point. Plus the non-directional emission of sound is fairly unique without many similar products on the market.
Just finished making these and while I do agree the bass could use some help, they sound insanely good for what they are, this is crazy. I just came back up from the basement after over an hour of listening to my favourite tracks and discovering new stuff in them, sitting there with lights out and having a massive grin on my face, thanks!
@@TechIngredients Oh I have been watching your videos for years now, I wouldn't miss this condensed knowledge repository made with accuracy and practicality in mind - I was here when the smoke bombs were going off ^^
@@keithmarlowe5569 That's basically what I did, just got a fairly cheap 2.1 amp and an old woofer, now it's much better - it's a system that I use in the basement gym, so it's more than enough.
We’re build a recording studio. Do you think this would work good in a space that’s about 25 feet long? The room is about 5’ x 15’ x 25’. Triangular like.
Fascinating analysis. As a physicist, I wondered how the resonance peaks of a single panel design might be minimized without combining it with other panels with mismatching peaks. So, I built a pair. Each speaker of my pair is 1" extruded polystyrene, but is cut to the dimensions of a golden rectangle. The height is 1.618 times the width (my panels are 25" high) and I rounded the corners. The exciter is placed at the first level or primary eye or focus of the golden rectangle. The idea is that the distance between the exciter and each pair of opposite sides is an irrational number. Theoretically, I thought, this should reduce resonance causing interference patterns. Finally, I used a nail set to form hundreds of cone-shaped holes in the material through the side edges of the panels thinking this would break up and reduce internal reflections from the edges, again reducing interference and resonance. I have no way of measuring the result, but the sound quality is extremely immersive and rich. Love to get your thoughts. Thanks.
Fascinating! I had to try this so I did. At first I tried just the ceiling tile: the mid range seemed good but it misses the hi frequency range and was 'blah' on its own. I then added the pink foam insulation speaker in series and it sounds great! What I appreciate most is the whole room sound - but your ear knows where the source of the sound is just fine. This helps my surround system a lot. Previously I could never hear anything out of the left surround speaker. It was too directional (mid-range bookshelf speaker). Now that I'm using the ceiling tile / foam insulation speakers I can hear the left surround channel - the clip clop of horse hooves, engine noises, bullets hitting things, etc. I'm quite happy about it. Apparently you can purchase speaker fabric in many colors, and a couple of companies will print/dye any photo you have on that material - so you can have hanging artwork / photos too!
@@lolololo2__515 he recommended using spray paint at more then 40 cm away so that the styrofoam wouldn’t melt in the first vid in this series, so that would work at least for the styrofoam. I have a feeling acrylic paint would mute the sound, as he mentions in the vid that you have to take off the shiny outer layer of the styrofoam or else it could hurt the sound.
Just finished this speaker wall; 99% the same, on a wall in my garage. This is everything he says it is. Turned up base. Music is more fun than ever before. In one word “Clarity”! If you don’t do this, I question your motivation for life (sound at least)!
What do you hook the speakers up to? I wan to try this too, but I know very little about audio systems. Do they have to connect through an amplifier or could you connect them strait to something like a car stereo. I don't know what the 4-ohm 8-ohm thing is either...
@@eploidsam Passive speakers such as these always have to be driven by a power amplifier. A power amplifier may be built into your car stereo but you'd have to ensure that the power output of the stereo amplifier is matched to the speakers or else your sound setup can be over or under-driven. Both scenarios have severe short comings. I'd encourage you to read a bit more about the topic before attempting to hook up speakers for fear that you might ruin your speakers or burn an amp or two. :) Ohm is a unit of resistance or passive impedance. So when a speaker is a 8 ohm speaker it presents a 8 ohm load to the amplifier. The lower the load, the easier it is for an amplifier to drive current through the load.
I just want to say your research has proven to be invaluable to me during my final year in uni. I'm very grateful that you would share this information to the public. This has been the basis for my final year project.
Nice, If you after cheap actuators go to a car wrecker and have a look at the roof linings, some vehicles use these to active noise cancel vehicle noise.
@@Steve211Ucdhihifvshi How interesting and sensible. Most of what makes high-end cars special and in the S Sonderklasse (German for "special class"Mercedes, arr not visible.
@@denb7068 I don't think this is necessarily a Dunning-Kruger thing-at least with respect to the videos. I can't speak for the commenter The part that's most well known about the phenomenon is that there's a significant correlation between folks with a small amount of knowledge, in some domain, and their confidence in what they truly know. If you look at the data from the original study, and many follow-ups with different experimental designs, it's clear that there are other variables that play big roles. The only notable effect, though, is that normalized comparisons typically only stretch or compress the same graph along the y-axis; the overall function is as close to identical as social sciences can really get when looking at those independent data sets. The main reason I bring this up is because, when the effect is in play, there's always an extreme drop off in confidence with moderate knowledge in the specified domain; followed by a more gradual rise in confidence as you approach high knowledge. I've personally become very cagey about speaking with authority on most things, not in small part because of this exact thing; the exceptions, of course, being the few domains that I'm both well educated in and well practiced-or, at least, current on the literature-with. If you couldn't tell already, my undergrad and graduate studies were all in psychology. I also practiced as a licensed therapist before disability smacked me down. It's the only reason I feel comfortable saying all of this with a straight face. Back to addressing the video with those insights on mind: I don't think he would have ever made this video, let alone said the thing, if he were strongly under the effect. He probably would have considered the first video authoritative, if that were the case. I think the quote is probably more akin to a colloquialism for "I am a human that makes errors, and here are those errors."
I like that you cover these projects thoroughly and spread the content over multiple bite sized videos. I much prefer this format over one watered down video from which we only see a final product. Such watered down videos are not useful to me. You provide us materials and techniques used, details of tests performed, what DIDN'T work and why, and a summary of the lessons learned. YOUR VIDEOS GIVE ME WHAT I WANT. This is my favorite "tech" channel.
sometimes the watered down is good. Thats what i was expecting, then dissapointed the video was so long, and finally i ended up watching alll of it. I love this GEEEKY stuff tho
No joke, you are my hero. I am in my first year out of school working as an electrical engineer. You are the prime example of taking the principles we learn in school and putting them into action with REAL projects. I hope I can develop a clarity of thought and precise-ness of explanation as you demonstrate in all your videos. Thanks for being so thorough and for having such a broad range of projects!
This is the binge watch type of channel that keeps you from getting any actual work done... Very impressive. Looking forward to being lazy for a long time! Keep it coming...
It’s interesting to me. About a year ago I bought a Thunderpuck Bluetooth speaker. Essentially the same thing but you can set it on just about any surface and listen to the different dynamics of each material.
At 10:13, "I'm a little bit compulsive", oh really!!!, after watching many of your videos...I would have never known. LOL. However thats what makes your construction and analysis so precise,...soo be compulsive and be precise. It's the best way to be!!! I always enjoy your projects, hope you don't mind my kidding!
My daughter who has a home studio set up shared this link with me and I ended up running with this concept and just finished 4 panel acoustic speakers for my mancave. Used the Dayton exciters and added a Dayton bass speakers. Ran it through a Rockville Blutube 4 Ohm amp. Also added a Rockville 8 inch subwoofer. WOW!! I have a set of 5th Gen KRK's and some Bose 901 speakers I use for my DJ set up. But these panel speakers are my listening system choice. You made a huge dent and these DIY speakers are hot items on You Tube. Thanks!! 😎
For 40 years I'm building traditional speakers, I mean speakers in a wooden box. I did a couple of working in the air. Personally, I made speakers of 180 cm high and 300 l volumes. I used the Visaton TIW 400 for bass to 100Hz, WSP 21S (100-600Hz), DSM50FFL (600-4500Hz) and DSM25FFL (above 3500Hz). Crossower I made myself with monstruously thick wires for less resistance, in the middle and high range I switched coils of seven wires twisted into one (Tritec) ... Crossower is each weighing 9 kg. After that project I tried to make a flat panel and the result was amazing. I'm not satisfied with the only range in the bass area because I miss the punch. The project I continued on as a model for Martin Logan as a hybrid .... for the bass area I used a classic bass box for medium and high tones from the panel I made earlier. The result is excellent, but the problem is the difference in the SPL and the two components .... I am now solving two separate amplifiers because I also power my speakers with two amplifiers .... for the bass area I tried out many different speakers and the best results I received from JBL extracted from FLIP 4 ..... I know that many speaker manufacturers are skeptical when they see what can be done with much less money because they lose profits. But the speaker's self-construction has always yielded better results, about a 1/10 ratio. My friend for a couple of B & W paid $ 30000 and after listening to my speakers he wanted B & W to return to the English because he felt deceived. Thank you for the project..... The sound at recording is a bit weaker but it does not diminish the value of your project .....
I am also thinking about doing something like this but have no idea how to do the amps and the woofer. This build would fit awesomely on my slanted wall above my computer for the 2 front ones and the center and I could hand the rear ones horizontally where they wouldn't stick out much.
@@JasonWeismannminnesotasmusic They honestly do. Better than I ever expected, even taking his claims full face. For instance, he doesn't really mention that the physics of vibrating the panels directly makes them act like how actual musical instruments work -- but this also means not only can they do the subtle reverb, but they can respond -faster- to sound changes than any cone. There are features in the music I listen to I never knew I wasn't hearing till I made this setup. It was a big surprise. Also, makes voice remarkably real, and you can hear the wavering undertones from voices that you can't with cones (but do hear in person). Actually, I've found these are so good and reproducing sound, I can now very distinctly and obviously hear the different quality of the microphones being used, and the different room spaces of recordings -- I don't mean in a strain your ears sort of "yeah, ok, I can hear it, but maybe it's just their different voices" way, but stark affects on the audio from different recordings where you can very much, "in your face" tell what sort of mic was being used. Another surprise.
I read this comment and immediately laughed, because that perfectly describes your talent as teacher and scientist. I grew up in the age of Mr. Wizard and your wit and deep technical understanding make your videos incredible! I will be building these for my kids desk areas. What is the smallest size one should use with this design style?
Definitely NOT clickbait as some here have said. You put a lot of effort and research into this and I think these are awesome speakers and you can't beat the cost to build them. Very well done. I'm gonna build some to put in my shop and probably for our house too. Love your channel.
I built these speakers to use in conjunction with my current theater/stereo system. The Setup: I am using two "TriTrix" (parts express) floorstanding speakers for L/R, Bowers & Wilkins for center channel and L/R surrounds. Bowers & Wilkins ASW-750 subwoofer. These panels are mounted hanging behind my TV along the wall, about 5" from the wall itself. I have everything hooked up through my receiver, using "zone 2" function to output the receivers audio into 2 additional amps (Fosi audio) which power these panel speakers. SOUND QUALITY: AMAZING! With everything set up as described, this system ROCKS. It's almost like being at a live performance, and the sound emanates from the wall itself. I highly recommend using them BUT only to supplement your current stereo as I've done- on their own, these panels are only okay. They are not as defined in the high high range nor in the low low range as my parts express speakers I built for $300, but they are good for what they are. This is where the subwoofer and traditional speakers come in to fill the gaps. However their mid-range performance is exceptional and this is an upgrade over just using traditional speakers. I no longer have listening "sweet spots", rather the whole room is filled with sound! I used to think my system was perfect, but now when I turn the panel speakers off, it sounds like I'm listening in a vacuum, with a narrow soundstage- more like listening through headphones. Once I turn them back on, it's a whole new level of depth, like listening live...Once you try it you'll be hooked! CONCLUSION: Definitely build these! It's a super fun project and worth the financial risk for less than $200. Plus the listening experience is unlike anything else, so it's just neat to experience. But in my opinion they aren't a replacement for a home stereo without some supplementation. Maybe just a subwoofer would do it, but I can't comment on that since I've only tried it as described. Good luck everyone and happy listening 😁
Drop enough names mister? How about Owen's-Corning. Maybe Pink Panther you entitled non existent to frugality egotistical putz. All those expensive high brow electronics STILL HAD GAPS THAT NEEDED A GARAGE INSULATION PANEL TO IMPROVE. INSTALL ONE IN YOUR BMW. BETWEEN YOU AND THE WINDSHIELD.
This video popped up on my recommendations and I was instantly intrigued. I have been an audio enthusiast for 60 years and appreciate good sound. While on a very limited budget I have built several "controversial" designs (Remember the Sweet 16 speaker? If you don't and want to hear about it, let me know). I worked for a time in the sixty's at a store selling the most expensive top of the line audio equipment and have seen many interesting and wonderfully sounding speaker designs over the years. I was amazed by a very tiny transducer attached to a styrofoam cooler being demoed and sold at a state fair a few years ago, so when I saw this video, it grabbed my attention. I didn't look for much bass response in this design, but I was VERY impressed with the clarity and presence of the sound samples on the video, especially in the number with the orchestral strings. My sound system is excellent and the compressed youtube audio still allowed me to hear the detail and subtle nuances in the recording. I'm planning to play with this concept soon; it seems like fun and I want to see how impressive it may be. I spent a long time reading all the comments on this video and had to laugh at many of the negative comments posted by self-identified audiophiles that buy the most expensive gear and engineers that like to use numbers to determine the quality of sound. And laughed at the young guys that think that sound quality is bad if their ears don't bleed, lol. Hey, I like to feel the music too, but I want the bass to be clean! The quality is in the listening! ! I don't buy a speaker for it's price, name, reputation, size, wattage, specs or anything other than how well it sounds. I have found excellent sound from very inexpensive gear. (And crappy sound from overpriced and overrated gear). Keep up the good work and don't listen to the egotists that like to criticize every little aspect of your video.
@@jadedandbitter Sorry I didn't see your comment sooner. If you add up the area of the cones of the 16 speakers, you will find that it is similar in area to an 18 inch woofer. The last set I built was used in a DJ type situation, and the low end was very powerful.
how do you not have more subscribers/viewers? I cannot express enough how much I hate garbage youtube videos that try, and fail, to express scientific and engineering principles properly and clearly. Thanks for doing the good work.
Ill bet if you made a short summary version to accompany each full video that would draw a lof more people in. Like with your videos on MHD if you just showed liquid metal flowing up hill and titled it "WTF i broke physics" youd get a million clicks in no time. Totally understand if you dont want to degrade yourself though!
Ironic as people can spend hours watching utter crap in 5 min segments but think half n hour is too long! Its a sad day when this genuis has to try and impress these idiots.
4 dollar 25w dayton audio exciters. oh my. What a world we used to live in. They seem to be about $20-25 now. I should have built these when i first saw these videos. I snagged a pair of the little three legged 5w ones for $20. I appreciate you taking the time to make such an informative and thorough video series. Time to finally try it out. Wish me luck! :)
Your channel deserves more than a million subscribers! Considering there are a lot of channels here on UA-cam not deserving of a million subscribers. You know who you are.
I'd like to see the frequency response of the entire system. It would be neat to see how that graph compares to a summation of the four separate response graphs.
Mind .. boggling. - I experimented with those materials, but never got to a point where I was comfy with the result. You actually filled the details I missed, like the way and materials to "hang 'em high" for example. Thanks for sharing!
I'm a redneck country boy. Lol but I made these speakers and there awesome. One modification I made a small hole through the foam that lined up with the center of the exciter. So it could breath and stay cool. Sounded much better even though I didn't think that was possible. Also says cool no matter how hard I'm playing them. Love the work you do. Please keep it going Redneck Country Boy
Seems like you could get some $3-$6 exciters and make some rear surround speakers pretty easy, following a similar formula to what is shown here. Maybe use smaller (or thinner?) piece of foam with smaller exciter. Maybe make them SMALL using acrylic or something like that, to make them blend into the surroundings?
My experience building many different types of speakers from horns to large boxes to panels has been that room acoustics and standing waves are responsible for peaks in response. I loved your experimental technique. I usually used white or pink noise to test response.
I was not interested in any speaker building at all. But after seeing other videos in this channel, I realized that every subject that you approach become interesting, by the clearness and also the depth of your explanations. You are not just making projects, you make others understand the scientific principles behind it. I am not interested in lasers also. But guess what... I thing I`ll enjoy those videos too.
Rarely do I go to the trouble of using my “good” headphones to listen to anything on UA-cam.... This was absolutely worth it. Considering this was recorded using high quality equipment one would expected it would suffer lossless compression via UA-cam. I can only imagine how much better it would be in person. Thank you for your attention to detail, and straightforward no nonsense presentation. *It would be interesting to explore the long term integrity of the materials both structurally & tonally.
If you want to avoid resonances then you want to place your actuator in a position that is an irrational fraction of the way across the panel and up and down, that way you avoid exciting any of the odd or even flexure modes. Your 2/5, 3/5 is nearly there. The most irrational number is the golden ratio. 2,3 and 5 are three adjacent numbers from the Fibonacci sequence. As you go up the sequence the closer the ratios get to Phi, 1:1.618034... A better approximation would be 5/13 and 8/13, just a thought. The whole panel could be a golden rectangle too, which would eliminate the diagonal flexural modes too at higher frequencies. Which even if it does nothing for the sound would look "right". Have you thought of circles and ellipses? The analysis of the flexural modes is beyond my engineering degree, involving as it does elliptic integrals and Bessel functions. But then you would have no corners to flap about. Actually on second thoughts scratch that, a circle is hopeless as the actuator would always be on a diameter and would excite the first order flex. An ellipse might be worth a try. Have you seen Chladni plates? These are metal plates excited at different frequencies with sand on the top, the sand gathers at the nodes of the vibration mode and forms patterns. You could use this technique to visualise how your speakers are vibrating.
The perfect shape would be two spherical ellipses slightly overlapping with an additional cylindrical projection five times longer than the width and a width half as wide as the combined spheres originating from the intersection of the spherical eclipse.. the end of the projection would be rounded off in an egg shape. This would give the optimal sound quality.
the fact that he admits he thinks he is "smart that he actually is". instant subscribe. I've very rarely subscribe to channels but this is a no brainer
Never realized that there were sound transducers which could be attached to ceiling panels to act as speakers! Very interesting and thanks for all that research!
Just made this flat panel speakers with one actuator. In this case I used the Visaton EX 80 S dynamic exciter 50W 8 Ohm. I mounted it on multiplex of 8mm thick, 120 cm x 60 cm and kept to the 2/5 - 3/5 placement. Combined with my old Yamaha RX-V471 receiver this produces an incredible good sound, I had to compensate with the inbuilt equaliser because the high frequencies dominated and the lows were a bit lacking. The sound now rivaling the sound of my Boston Accoustics 360 and those were highly aclaimed in a German audio magazine.
I know this is a bit old but could you explain the 2/5 3/5 rule? If i put the exciter 2/5 of the way on one side isn't it always 3/5 on the other? Also at the end he says 2/3 3/5 rule is that something different or did he misspeak
@@ThePurplePeon 2/5 from the side, 3/5 from the top. This is CLOSE to the golden rule ratio 1/1.618. This is when a line is divided into two parts, and the longer part (a) divided by the smaller part (b) is equal to the sum of (a) + (b) divided by (a), which both equal 1.618. A better approximation would actually be 5/13 & 8/13.
In about a span of three hours, I have figured out how I am going to build my movie/listening room thanks to this genius! Most importantly, I think the wife will like the results.!!! Now. If you could make a video on how to hang a couple 13 or 14 panels at the exact same height, and straight, it would be much appreciated.
I expected to see how these peaks and troughs from different panels balance each other when used in a combination. It would have been nice to see that frequency sweep for the combination as well. Otherwise, very clear and fascinating. Thanks
This was a great video and thanks for providing such a detailed analysis of the speaker profiles. Since the response of all eight panel speakers is a superposition it would have been really cool if you had summed the individual response plots or if you had recorded the same frequency sweep with all speakers working together. This would give a much more quantitative view of how flat the system response is. Either way, really great video and keep up the great work!
I learned the definition for the word "friable" many years ago and can't tell you how pleased I am to finally hear it used by someone. It made me feel smarter than I really am ;)
I just hung a pair of the pink foam ones and they sound great!! Thanks so much for the awesome videos, you're definitely in my top 5 favorite channels ever.
I feel the same. It would have been insightful to see the combined frequency response for the channel. Furthermore, I would like to have seen him prove his assertion of a flatter response across the spectrum.
I agree. After ALL he did to demonstrate various frequency responses of the various panels, and with his supposition that, by combining the various panels, frequency response peaks and valleys could be minimized, I feel it's incumbent upon him to prove his assertion. WHERE'S THE FINAL FREQUENCY RESPONSE GRAPH? GIVE IT TO US.
Seems the overall frequency response would be the most important test. The demo sounded a little light on the low end. Some digital processing would be appropriate, especially given the number of amps used to drive the panels.
@@kenlarock7356 There's no doubt in my mind that these speakers can't push a lot of air, so this system would need to be supplemented with a subwoofer. That said, whatever you heard was subject to the microphone he used, and the speakers you use.
Not only is this dude blowing my mind, it honestly feels like he compacts like 3 years of science learning in high school into about 3 mins, love it, thank you - no really, thank you!!!!
@@aries6776 Hell Yeah Brother! - Its baffling that some people don't even know how to read time on an "Analog clock" these days -.- Human beings are not going to be at the top of the evolutionary food chain much longer, just based on the sole observation of Confusion at 4 way stops lol
The vast majority of people who take pride in being scientific have never done a scientific analysis of anything. It is wonderful to see someone doing actual experimentation to learn, and passing on the results to other people. Thank you, wonderful.
@@TechIngredients Same as Rachel a bit above, I would love to see frequency response charts and a plot of max SPL by frequency, you compare them to bookshelf speakers but lets see some specific figures. :) and polar radiation dispersion plots if you have them (you should at least have some data on the subject, unless you have never moved the mic for some reason...) please It takes out a bit of value from the vid when you ignore all request for specific numbers, it's somewhat suspicious... but you give a Like or answer to posts that are just uncritical praise
WOW! That was a phenomenal display of the magic of acoustics and resonance. I own a very expensive pair of spkrs for my HiFi system, but I still have to make these! I can only imagine how these panels would sound with a set or even one subwoofer. You have certainly stolen one of my upcoming weekends, which I thank you very much for!
Did you ever get around to doing it? I'd really like some other people's opinions on how they compare to a traditional hifi bookcase or powered monitor set up
I just want to extend a sincere but massive amount of gratitude to you as I'm about to briefly explain a very odd yet satisfying phenomenon that I'm currently experiencing. Your video popped up randomly in my recommended and while watching I immediately hit a state of euphoria that is unparalleled to anything I've ever experienced before. I couldn't possibly begin to try and explain to you what or why, just that for some reason the visual stimuli from your video triggered this phenomenon in me and I couldn't be more grateful. A completely out-of-the-box comment, and has no correlation to your video, but thank you regardless. Bless you sir!
@Tech Ingredients- You should be proud!! This speaker building method has taken on a life of it's own lately! Suddenly there are many new videos on You Tube that are crediting you for introducing these simple & inexpensive DML panel speakers. Personally, I'm excited that you also showed how vibrations form various geometric patterns in the sugar you poured on excited plates. I had only seen that done once before and I am facinated by that situation because it looks just like what I have always seen in a telescope while viewing stars.
The fact that I listened through the whole listening test is, in itself I think, proof of the sound quality of these speakers. Even though (at least to my reckoning) you haven't set them up to their best potential, they sound great! Well done!
I hope I’m not the only one who imagines attaching art prints on top of these and putting them in each room of my house as a big house wide speaker system where the audio follows you from room to room
I would think similarly to sound treatment you could do this. If you painted onto the flat wood panels as long as it wasn't thick acrylic style it really should not hurt the sound noticeably. If you could print onto a thin film and then glue this to the substrate should be fine.
I thought the same, but remember that these panels will vibrate quite a bit as the music plays. So It could get a little disturbing to look at when they are playing. If the panels are plain you will probably not see the vibration, vs. if they have a detailed print.
I have been following this concept on your channel and I have to say it is truly inspiring, together with your brilliant explanation of not only How but Why a certain path is works. The sheer depth of research with different materials and techniques blended with good science, leads me to conclude as a "science/tech channel" yours shifts gear when others have finished. Well Done. I am considering this design as an extension speaker for my Amateur radio to maybe improve vocal clarity! 73 Barnie.
Listening to this on a bose wave radio 3 and it sounds extremely good. Also took a lot of screen shots. I am sooo doing this in my house!!! Love this video!!!🤩
@@keithmarlowe5569 no I got four different books on procrastination that I got to start first. LOL I got so many irons in the fire my friend it might be awhile before I get around to doing this. But I do have the speakers on reserve on Amazon.
I’m completely blown away. Might be a simple thing for many, but this just left me mouth wide open. I’m assuming this is how that “stick it to anything speaker works. Idk. I so appreciate your research. One day I must try this! I turned my sorrowing sound cause I wanted to see where are the low frequencies like. And my system is picking them! Man I’m grinning like an idiot! Thx brother!
I've made a few 2'x4' panel speakers with 1/4" thick foamcore board and it works extremely well. Very lightweight and quite loud. Polystyrene foam picnic plates make great smaller speakers.
This guy is a freak and i love it. I first discovered this channel when i was doing transmission line research. In the near future i will likely pursue this setup. When he did the sweep the high frequencies came across surprisingly clear which really got my attention. Thank you for toe efforts
See the number of subscribers of those who claim ‘clickbait’ vs 767k subscribers for this genius. Absolutely amazing work. I showed this to a sound engineer and he said you’re on point. Top stuff
There is more than just frequency response to a good speaker. Could you test how much the sin input is actually still a sin on the output, and what the generated overtones are? Because the different panels definitely sounded different in the sweap, indicating overtones. The problem is, frequency response can be corrected by equalizers, overtones can not and make the actual quality of a speaker.
@@qm3ster This clearly has a crazy amount of harmonic distortion. It also will act as a dipole, so room interaction is quite severe. As a science experiment: fun. If you just want decent listening devices, get a pair of active studio mointor speakers with constant directivity - it will save you loads of money and time.
@numb I have a set of JBL studio monitors. They don't perform as well as the little $6.00 thrift store Sony book shelf speakers I found. Very disappointed in my JBL purchase.
@@danj7348 some people actually buy tube amps to have pleasant harmonic distortion. I guess vinyl has some as well. The question is more how much harmonic distortion these panels give compared to regular studio speakers or tube amps? How come you say crazy amount of harmonic distortion? The quality of the mic recording of this speaker is a huge factor in judging the harmonic distortion.
@@foenzie F Sure, some people may like the sound, but that hardly makes them "the Best". Speakers should objectively reproduce the sound of a recording as precise as possible. If you like to add a lot of distortion or other effects added to your sound, there a many ways to do so - adding it in the speakers is one of the worst, because you have no control over its intensity and can´t switch it off.You are baically building a musical instrument, not a speaker. I know they will have distortion because the main source of these in speakers are cone/panel breakup, material resonances and unlinearities in the the motor. Engineers have spent ~ 100 years now to find the perfect materials which either dampen away resonances or move them out of the relevant acoustic range, optimize a motor to act linear in small and big amplitudes and shape the propagation of sound evenly across the frequency-range. But you think they somehow overlooked such a simple solution? No - we all tried something like this as little kids and then, if interested in the hobby of speaker-building, went on to build more serious stuff.
As Adam Savage used to say, it's not science if you're not writing it down... Or in this case documenting on video. Super cool. And I'm glad I had my headphones on for this, it really sounded great with the stereo separation.
Just a heads up for anyone doing this. I just completed them, but did some more research on home made DML (Flat panels). The audio quality increases IMMENSELY if you coat the front and back of both panels with 2 layers of a 1:1 Wood Glue and Water mixture after sanding. I tested them before and after, and the coating adds a lot more low end, and overall makes the speakers sound significantly better. I also found it important to hang the speaker wires coming off the panel away from the panel. You can bend the attachment point with pliers, its just important the wires don't touch the panel too much. I'd also recommend tinkering with your eq settings. I found a round curve downwards shape worked best (Lets say 1 cm downward for the lowest end 60 to 150hz, 0.8 cm for 150 to 400 hz, 0.3 cm for 400 to 1 khz, 0.1 for 1 to 2.4 khz and 0.4 upwards for 2.4 to 15 khz)
How about eliminating the back wave? I.e. the sound wave that travels from the backside of your panel, reflects from the wall behind it, then travels to the listener, cancelling out some of the frequencies due to interference. If I'm right, the resulting frequencies "pits" pattern should change as you change the distance of panel from the wall. To eliminate the backwave you can use some sound absorption material or some sound reflective cones, placed on the wall or on the panel itself. I would appreciate if you could test it. Anyway, I believe this idea is great! Thank you for your research!
If you add to panel it may dampen or eliminate the effectiveness of of the panel. Also it isn't reverberating like a speaker to the wall behind it shouldn't matter as much
Jeez I love this channel. It makes me feel dumb, seriously I feel like its my first day in school and I have been dropped in Advanced Multivariable Calculus 3/4 of the way in the year at MIT or something. BUT I kinda enjoy the ignorance. I watch and think "I have no idea whats really going on here but I like it."
Moritz Neumann maybe to someone with a degree in acoustical engineer. But for the average American this is way over our/their heads. Hell I went to a one year broadcast sound Engineering class in high school and we never really covered material sciences and acoustics.
x9x9x9x9x9 its that feeling of selfimprovemnt and acceptance of ignorance what makes men so superior. I can tell you that i have met many females throughout my life and that feeling is like cryptonite for them... Just another reason why the wage gap will always be present and men will dominate every single field/thing compared to females *for manginas reading me and getting triggered: im willing to bet my right hand that females arent even a 10% of the views of tgis channel, proving me right
What a great channel .. I’m making these tomorrow for my living room , I have concrete walls on two sides and can’t stand the echo , this sounds like a great solution for my kinda budget ..thank you for your knowledge and your time
They'll work even better if you hang something on the walls behind them that absorbs the sound that comes off the back of the panel. As we demonstrated in our videos on these materials, acoustic ceiling tiles are probably the best for this purpose, but a rug, blanket or a heavy curtain will help.
A flower pot cleverly disguised as a pot lid. :-) (Hey I'm not doggin', it's an amazing video and very informative series. Makes me wanna build this speaker array RTFN, and I also get my words all mixed up when I'm in the flow. Keep on making awesome vids TechIngredients!
Compelling, an elegant advancement of acoustic art and science. Well done and very much appreciated. Thanks for rekindling an interest that left me years ago. This technology creates possibilities for recovering sonic realism from recordings. Specifically, using various panels optimized so the sound field of original recordings is recovered aurally from any listening position. I did this decades ago with traditional drivers and 12dB/octave X-overs. That version was included into the original Cineplex Toronto theatre. Now it’s synthetically done with computers, but I’m certain these panels could inexpensively duplicate an “audio hologram.”
So refreshing!!! This is what UA-cam science was supposed to be - without the idiocy and clowning of wannabe influencers and attention-seekers; and, watched my dimwits and lackeys. Thank you, Sir!
Great long term project! But did you ever consider trying the irregular shape of a guitar/violin/cello? I think one of the reasons luthiers ended up with this modified figure of 8 shape after a few centuries of experience is that this shape give different diameters and thereby different resonances in the same object. Deep tones resonate longitudinally and high tones transversely. Could also be interesting to do this experiment with the actuators mounted on a couple of guitar resonance cases without strings and necks. Certainly not cheap speakers but an interesting contribution to science! And about material, what about the favorite of string instruments, spruce/fir, did you ever try that? It´s quite a cheap wood. Keep up!
I was thinking the same thing, a kidney shape or random curve that has no 2 distances from the exciter the same and avoiding 4 corners that will want to have their own resonance multiplied by 4 might up the sound quality. I would think the 4 corners of the rectangular panels must be resonating in sync with each other smearing the frequency response a little, adding some fake ringing. The fact there is any high frequency at all means the exciter is in complete control of those large panels though. Amazing they can resonate fairly flat high frequency with that kind of weight. I'm guessing efficiency is low and you need to drive them with more power than a typical speaker.
Love the work you guys do! When I think of a traditional loudspeaker I think of a permanent magnet rigidly mounted to a frame so neither of those can move. The voice coil, which is free to move within the permanent magnet, is attached to the cone so they can move in unison as the electromagnetic field of the voice coil interacts with the permanent magnet, producing voice coil/cone movement and therefore sound. Because the speaker enclosure, speaker frame and permanent magnet are all stationary all of the movement energy is supplied to the cone to move air and produce sound. All of this is no great mystery. In the construction of the flat panel speakers great care is taken to make sure the panel mounting method does not inhibit the panel movement. This makes sense as the panel produces the sound. What I can't make sense of is why the audio exciter is not rigidly mounted so all of the energy is expended to produce sound from the flat panel. What seems to happen is BOTH the flat panel and the base of the audio exciter are moving. With both moving this must greatly impact the speaker efficiency, frequency response and speaker resonance points. Also, it seems to me the relationship of the mass of the audio exciter base to the mass of the flat panel along with the air resistance acting upon it would have a dramatic effect. In other words, when the audio exciter tries to move a large mass (wood panel) more of the movement would happen in the audio exciter base than when it tries to move a smaller mass (XPS Panel). My questions are, 1- Why in these flat panel speakers is the audio exciter base not attached to a substantially immovable object? (similar to how a traditional speaker works) 2- Has the efficiency and frequency response of a rigidly mounted audio exciter base flat panel speaker been compared to the exact same speaker when the audio exciter is allowed to move freely? I would be very interested in the comparison but don't have the equipment to perform it myself.
My guess it has to do with some sort of impedance matching between the mass of the actuator, and the mass of the pannel/how hard the actual exciter can push. I think the exciter cant really push that hard, so if you attach it to a board on one end, and an immovable object on the other, the board wont vibrate that much since the exciter just cant push very hard. Now if you detach it from the immovable object, your force stays somewhat the same as before (assuming the moving voice coil doesn't make too much back EMF) and now that the mass of the exciter is moving. I think this extra moving mass acts to add an extra joult of momentum when it changes direction. Kind of like kicking when you're doing a push-up gives you a quick jolt of upward momentum I think the exciter is unable to put out enough force and is stalling out (much like a car engine does), and disconecting the immovable object would be kind of analogous to adding a torque converter. I think this is similar to the way billiard balls transfer almost 100% of their energy when colliding (like a newtons cradle) while striking a ping pong ball with a billiard transfer basically no energy (the billiard ball and ping pong ball move about the same speed). I think the same way the ratio of masses matters in a collision, the ratio of masses matters in a DML speaker. I think letting the mass of the transducer vibrate instead of fixing the back of the transducer to a rigid object would make for better energy transfer en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impedance_matching#Mechanics
I have a smallish living room and putting up that many panels wouldn't be an option. I was wondering what would be the sound if each of the panels was scaled down to a quarter of the size which would be 6"x12" for the tile and 6"x6" for the EPS. Also, what would happen if 2 exciters were put on the same panel, one at 3/5-2/5 and one at center (series v parallel)?
You would be much better off going with a single larger panel on each side because as you shrink the panel, you are going to change the overall frequency range to be more toward highs. With the single panel, you aren't going to get as much flatness due to the peaks and valleys canceling each other out, but you will have a much more even overall sound than with several tiny panels.
I watched several other of your videos and only I got into these speaker concepts late. You performed so many audio engineering tests! Then when you used 40W exciters, I remembered Dayton Audio DAEX25 Sound Exciter Pair/s. Thinking back with your use of counterweights against resonant response and now where you now use the 40W exciter, you could place 4 (10W @ 4 Ohm each) into the configuration of counterweights on each of only the two accoustic tiles. Wire one pair in series and another pair in series then feed both pair in parallel for 8 Ohm 40W. (Then there's Newton's third law; so, fasten the opposite side of the exciters with styrofoam on that same array?) Another thought was more from radiating electromagnetic waves from patch antennae. You rounded all the corners of a pair of estruded polystyrene. Patch antennae have a corner cut to make them right or left circularly polarized. Did you try to round an odd corner or leave one corner square, rather than round all the corners?
@@deckmonkey1459 Taking parts that a company made and sticking them together isn't that impressive. Now, if you want to impress, why don't you design and mfg. your own actual drivers, design your own crossover, if needed, and make your own cabinet and then bring it to an audiophile show and get people's attention enough for them to start buying them so you can run a profitable business for MANY, MANY years. Go do that and if you can run a company, that's profitable, and you are designing and mfg. everything yourself, THAT would impress me..
Oneness100 You got all this wrong ‘Mr. Audiophile’. The whole idea of this video is to show that people can cheaply and extremely successfully craft their own speakers for $100, building an incredibly high efficiency sound system at home. I’d be far more impressed seeing this at my friends home and any average purchased set of speakers. A proud owner of Bowers&Wilkins Nautilus + Audio Note Japan Ongaku.
I realize this video is 4+ years old at this point... but I have to say, I just finished watching the previous video and this one and I'm blown away. I would love to hear these in person, and put them up against something like a set of Magneplanar speakers (So far the best sounding, widest-stage speakers I've heard in my life) This has given me so much to think about, and turned my plans for a new home theater system completely upside down. Thank you!
My thoughts too. Although, looking at the amount of space required for each channel to have a balanced output of 4 panels, I'm not sure it's practical for a home theater setup with 5.1 channels, let alone 7.1 or higher with Atmos or DTS:X. Seems like something better for a 2.1 channel music listening room. By size alone, these things seem like they could fill a room with sound very nicely in 2.1. I'll have to keep looking through his channel to see if he ever gets good results from smaller panels.
I have worked with live audio/PA systems for about 27 years. In your first video of this project, you show your home system that you talk about 2 panels per side; the larger one for low frequencies. But then you say they are wired in series so that the two 4 ohm speakers have an 8 ohm load on the amplifier. To increase the quality of sound, we use crossovers to separate the low and high frequencies. But we are using traditional cone speakers. Active crossovers are the best for power consumption and to best utilize amplifiers (in this video, you are using an active crossover at the end). However, a passive crossover is the most cost effective way to go if a person wanted to send separated signals to two seperate exciters for low and high frequencies in their living room. But there is another thing to consider: the panel seems more like a midpoint in the medium of air and I'm thinking that fluid dynamics would cause a single source of large flat delivery to not cause cancelation. So, my question is: would a crossover add to the fidelity of the sound? And what frequency would you go for as the crossover point? Dayton Audio makes some nice passive crossovers that you or I could house as a discrete device between the amplifier and the speakers.
The frequency overlap with these two panels is significant. Much more so than say a tweeter, mid range and woofer. It isn't clear where a cross over should be placed because the biggest difference between these panels is their extensions at the high and low ends of the frequency range.
So, I think the answer is that this is an unexplored area. Therefore, I hereby submit a viewer request for you to do a third video to explore passive crossover additions to your configuration. Love your channel!
We are doing a third and fourth video. The next covers the anechoic chamber we built for further analysis and the fourth will retest some of these speakers.
“Woofers and tweeters” are combined to enhance the sound quality because different sizes of speakers have different frequency characteristics, a large panel paired with a smaller panel will create a fuller sound quality. I like the idea of using inexpensive panels to create a wall of sound🤗
Thank you!. I just wonder what happens when you combine four speakers within the same frequency range? Couldn't the summed SPL give interference peaks - much dependant of the listeners (microphone) position in relation to the four speakers? It would be nice to see examples for different listener positions - in comparison to a single speaker.
You will get constructive and destructive interference based on frequency or wavelength and of course phase relationships. The room its self is also a speaker and these things when summed together are complex to model and measure where even the measurement its self would only be valid for the exact position in space it was done. The most ideal loudspeaker would come from an indefinitely small single point source however basic physics prevents and therefore we can only ever try to achieve such ideals.
Remember that outside of very low frequencies, sound is meant to be directional . . . that is to say, it is accurately reproduced when the listener is able to perceive the direction the sound is coming from. A possible exception to this is the rear surround speakers in a home theater, where they often reproduce the soundtrack's "ambient" sound; for this reason rear surround speakers correctly positioned when they are about 3 feet over the listener's head. By ensuring that most of the directional sound is only heard as it reflects off of room surfaces, it creates the allusion of omnidirectional sound. In the the case of surround speakers, a large array of emitters could be fun to play with . . . with one caveat: don't go overboard, as 7.1+ surround sound systems have become more common, the surround channels are being used more and more for directional content. Also note that surround speakers don't face downward, they direct sound across the listening position . . . so if the panels are installed horizontally, they will be facing the wrong direction. This being said, Dolby Atmos and DTS:X require or allow for ceiling mounted, downward facing speakers. Alternatively, if the intent is to provide MORE sound and you are willing to sacrifice accuracy, this could be a fun way to provide a more uniform listening experience across many different positions.
MrChompenstein makes a lot of sense. However, the fact that you can't tell where the sound is coming from exactly can itself be an immersive experience. Finding a way to balance the two is an interesting subject of it's own. Even with flat panels, behind you is behind you. With flat panel speakers, right and left are still separate, they just don't come from point sources, but rather emanate from a general direction. A small room might suffer from overuse of this type of speaker in some ways, but a sufficiently large room may benefit from it. It sounds like fun playing with that and seeing what you get.
You're absolutely right, my main concern was with the intent of positioning them in/as the ceiling itself . . . as this would change the direction of the speaker. The ambient sounds may likely benefit from not being a point source . . . but in instances where the audio "passes over head" from say the front right speaker to the back left it may be awkward to hear it change from point source to broad source . . . or not, something to play with for sure. It is preferred in home theater arrangements for the front speakers to be "timbre matched," which is to say that they are all the same speakers. The human ear is much better at discerning sound in the frontal plane, therefore tonal differences between mismatched speakers can be distracting. It is generally accepted that the rear speakers do not need to be timbre matched to the fronts. From a non-point source and immersion standpoint, this type of speaker is interesting as an inexpensive option for the Dolby Atmos/DTS:X formats . . . as the orientation would be correct. The effect may also be correct, though I don't have enough experience with these new formats to really understand all the ways they are utilized. If I understand correctly, DTS:X may handle this better than Dolby Atmos because is doesn't have a strictly defined layout.
It would be really awesome if you could upload the raw audio files somewhere for us to download and play back uncompressed. I have a feeling it probably won't make much difference on the end user side of things, but it will at least alleviate some of the naysayers. This is definitely an inspiring experiment at the least, and a viable high-quality home theater setup at the best. I would say that makes this video extremely valuable compared to 99% of the trash you find on UA-cam these days. Thanks for your time, effort, and heart you put into these videos!
Thanks. Despite our limitations, that is the purpose behind all our video's: we're not showing off, but showing how and hopefully others with more particular skills can run with it.
@@MegaEpstein I guarantee that UA-cam compresses the video more than 5%. The less than 5% difference may be true for the audio raw->mp3 conversion, but UA-cam is definitely going deeper than 5%. Every percent of compression could equate out to a hefty sum of overhead shaved off their bottom line for served data.
Very interesting. I remember when I first came across something called poly plainers in the late 1960’s early 70’s. They were dense styrofoam panels with a thin aluminum transducer disc glued to the center. Your panels sound much better and are less expensive. Thank you. Godspeed.
So many the I never thought I would find something that's not traditional I love It haven't watched I'm watching I'm excited to see what is going to be learned here thank you and appreciate stay strong my friend
Clickbait? Yes!
Still interesting and worth watching? Yes!
Thank you! What really is click bait?
I believe it is the false promise of content that doesn't exist. You take the time to click into a video and discover, after taking even more time, that there's little of value. With so many other options, this is frustrating. However, because there ARE so many options for the potential viewer,
quality content gets drowned out, lost under the weight of highly promoted channels and their hyperbole.
We want to compete for your attention, but we want even more to to provide interesting and informative videos that make you want to come back and subscribe.
@@TechIngredients I'm perfectly fine with clickbait of this sort. It's kind of borderline with this as your thumbnail says "world best... (for 115 dollars)". If you called it something like "amazing value speakers for 115 dollar" it wouldn't be clickbait, but it's also not an eye-catching title. Anyways, keep up the good work! ;)
@CybpnK If you read it as "the world best speaker *FOR 115 dollars"* then it might be true, but if you read it as "the world best speakers" then it's far less likely and most definitely up for debate. Either way the concept is really interesting.
@@DonJohn87_YT
"World's Best DIY Speakers!"
Obviously high-end manufactured speakers are going to be nicer and considered standard professional equipment. Might be missing a word but all the similarly titled videos on youtube are a joke compared to the amount of research and development put in to these videos (I think it's a justified title.)
These are probably equivalent or better quality than a lot of media speakers you can get at a much higher price point. Plus the non-directional emission of sound is fairly unique without many similar products on the market.
Change Tittle to: *World’s Shittiest Speakers!* = Happy Dumb UA-camrs! 😂😂😂😂😂
One man's old ceiling tile is another man's world's best speaker.
Just finished making these and while I do agree the bass could use some help, they sound insanely good for what they are, this is crazy. I just came back up from the basement after over an hour of listening to my favourite tracks and discovering new stuff in them, sitting there with lights out and having a massive grin on my face, thanks!
You're welcome!
Check out some of other videos. This isn't unique.
@@TechIngredients Oh I have been watching your videos for years now, I wouldn't miss this condensed knowledge repository made with accuracy and practicality in mind - I was here when the smoke bombs were going off ^^
@@keithmarlowe5569 That's basically what I did, just got a fairly cheap 2.1 amp and an old woofer, now it's much better - it's a system that I use in the basement gym, so it's more than enough.
We’re build a recording studio. Do you think this would work good in a space that’s about 25 feet long? The room is about 5’ x 15’ x 25’. Triangular like.
How would you rate their sensitivity? Also since they have such big area do they fill large spaces?
Fascinating analysis. As a physicist, I wondered how the resonance peaks of a single panel design might be minimized without combining it with other panels with mismatching peaks. So, I built a pair. Each speaker of my pair is 1" extruded polystyrene, but is cut to the dimensions of a golden rectangle. The height is 1.618 times the width (my panels are 25" high) and I rounded the corners. The exciter is placed at the first level or primary eye or focus of the golden rectangle. The idea is that the distance between the exciter and each pair of opposite sides is an irrational number. Theoretically, I thought, this should reduce resonance causing interference patterns. Finally, I used a nail set to form hundreds of cone-shaped holes in the material through the side edges of the panels thinking this would break up and reduce internal reflections from the edges, again reducing interference and resonance. I have no way of measuring the result, but the sound quality is extremely immersive and rich. Love to get your thoughts. Thanks.
You did all that but have no way to measure the result?
@@drummerdoingstuff5020 😂 Worth it!
Sounds fantastic!
I'm quite fascinated with this experiment and I'd love to see data. Do you have a nearby university with an oscilloscope?
Did you compare the given method vs your own golden ratio method?
Fascinating! I had to try this so I did. At first I tried just the ceiling tile: the mid range seemed good but it misses the hi frequency range and was 'blah' on its own. I then added the pink foam insulation speaker in series and it sounds great! What I appreciate most is the whole room sound - but your ear knows where the source of the sound is just fine. This helps my surround system a lot. Previously I could never hear anything out of the left surround speaker. It was too directional (mid-range bookshelf speaker). Now that I'm using the ceiling tile / foam insulation speakers I can hear the left surround channel - the clip clop of horse hooves, engine noises, bullets hitting things, etc. I'm quite happy about it.
Apparently you can purchase speaker fabric in many colors, and a couple of companies will print/dye any photo you have on that material - so you can have hanging artwork / photos too!
Amazing idea on the hanging artwork!
That was exactly my idea too that would be great
Does acrylic paint , mess up the sound ?
@@lolololo2__515 he recommended using spray paint at more then 40 cm away so that the styrofoam wouldn’t melt in the first vid in this series, so that would work at least for the styrofoam. I have a feeling acrylic paint would mute the sound, as he mentions in the vid that you have to take off the shiny outer layer of the styrofoam or else it could hurt the sound.
@@Leaf_man simple solution. Mount the panels behind art so the panels are free floating accents on the art.
Just finished this speaker wall; 99% the same, on a wall in my garage. This is everything he says it is. Turned up base. Music is more fun than ever before. In one word “Clarity”! If you don’t do this, I question your motivation for life (sound at least)!
What do you hook the speakers up to? I wan to try this too, but I know very little about audio systems. Do they have to connect through an amplifier or could you connect them strait to something like a car stereo. I don't know what the 4-ohm 8-ohm thing is either...
@@eploidsam Passive speakers such as these always have to be driven by a power amplifier. A power amplifier may be built into your car stereo but you'd have to ensure that the power output of the stereo amplifier is matched to the speakers or else your sound setup can be over or under-driven. Both scenarios have severe short comings. I'd encourage you to read a bit more about the topic before attempting to hook up speakers for fear that you might ruin your speakers or burn an amp or two. :) Ohm is a unit of resistance or passive impedance. So when a speaker is a 8 ohm speaker it presents a 8 ohm load to the amplifier. The lower the load, the easier it is for an amplifier to drive current through the load.
what if it made in half size ? ty
It’s spelled “bass.”
Base....LOL
I just want to say your research has proven to be invaluable to me during my final year in uni. I'm very grateful that you would share this information to the public. This has been the basis for my final year project.
Nice,
If you after cheap actuators go to a car wrecker and have a look at the roof linings, some vehicles use these to active noise cancel vehicle noise.
@@Steve211Ucdhihifvshi Mercedes-Benz uses them for audio in their newer vehicles. Toyota also has some in the roof of their SUVs
@@Steve211Ucdhihifvshi How interesting and sensible. Most of what makes high-end cars special and in the S Sonderklasse (German for "special class"Mercedes, arr not visible.
@@wadehensley5005 please p pm
"Sometimes I think I'm smarter than I really am"
After discovering your channel, this is a thought that I constantly have.
No kidding.
You aren't smarter than a fifth grader.
I am way not as smart as I thought I was.
Ah the Dunning Kruger effect.
@@denb7068 I don't think this is necessarily a Dunning-Kruger thing-at least with respect to the videos. I can't speak for the commenter
The part that's most well known about the phenomenon is that there's a significant correlation between folks with a small amount of knowledge, in some domain, and their confidence in what they truly know.
If you look at the data from the original study, and many follow-ups with different experimental designs, it's clear that there are other variables that play big roles. The only notable effect, though, is that normalized comparisons typically only stretch or compress the same graph along the y-axis; the overall function is as close to identical as social sciences can really get when looking at those independent data sets.
The main reason I bring this up is because, when the effect is in play, there's always an extreme drop off in confidence with moderate knowledge in the specified domain; followed by a more gradual rise in confidence as you approach high knowledge. I've personally become very cagey about speaking with authority on most things, not in small part because of this exact thing; the exceptions, of course, being the few domains that I'm both well educated in and well practiced-or, at least, current on the literature-with.
If you couldn't tell already, my undergrad and graduate studies were all in psychology. I also practiced as a licensed therapist before disability smacked me down. It's the only reason I feel comfortable saying all of this with a straight face.
Back to addressing the video with those insights on mind: I don't think he would have ever made this video, let alone said the thing, if he were strongly under the effect. He probably would have considered the first video authoritative, if that were the case. I think the quote is probably more akin to a colloquialism for "I am a human that makes errors, and here are those errors."
I like that you cover these projects thoroughly and spread the content over multiple bite sized videos. I much prefer this format over one watered down video from which we only see a final product. Such watered down videos are not useful to me. You provide us materials and techniques used, details of tests performed, what DIDN'T work and why, and a summary of the lessons learned. YOUR VIDEOS GIVE ME WHAT I WANT. This is my favorite "tech" channel.
sometimes the watered down is good. Thats what i was expecting, then dissapointed the video was so long, and finally i ended up watching alll of it. I love this GEEEKY stuff tho
No joke, you are my hero. I am in my first year out of school working as an electrical engineer. You are the prime example of taking the principles we learn in school and putting them into action with REAL projects. I hope I can develop a clarity of thought and precise-ness of explanation as you demonstrate in all your videos. Thanks for being so thorough and for having such a broad range of projects!
Thanks!
You've got the right idea.
Anybody else impressed with the workspace itself? That place is huge!
he lives in a giant speaker
Mallu Filipino
What is it u use at home? not that huge? Black and Decker Workmate?
@@lucasrem "Workspace" means the whole room or building...
@@lucasrem hey man I used to have one of those and it served me well!
Looks like the inside of a barn loft or a Quonset hut(spelling) that is beautifully decorated and taken care of
I nominate this man for Shop Teacher Of The Internet.
EDIT: /Science teacher? /Engineering Teacher?
I nominate this man as President of the United States Of America! Not, The United States of Israel as it is now.
That's already tubalcain/Mr. Pete.
YES PLEASE
Physics teacher probably works best.
@@dredrotten WTF?
It's crazy, these sound exactly like my tv speakers that I'm watching this video on! lol
Buy something better like a reference demoing headphone.
Buy something better like a potato
They sound like the lame speakers on my Surface Book.
Genius comment!
It’s incredible how some people won’t get that you’re making a joke, no matter how blatantly obvious you make it to them.
This is the binge watch type of channel that keeps you from getting any actual work done... Very impressive. Looking forward to being lazy for a long time! Keep it coming...
But it only works on certain people, like me and you. I love this channel.
It’s interesting to me. About a year ago I bought a Thunderpuck Bluetooth speaker. Essentially the same thing but you can set it on just about any surface and listen to the different dynamics of each material.
i have the same problem last i forgat to go sleeping soon both my speakers are compleet will post a video.ua-cam.com/video/haKoMOiOqho/v-deo.html
At 10:13, "I'm a little bit compulsive", oh really!!!, after watching many of your videos...I would have never known. LOL.
However thats what makes your construction and analysis so precise,...soo be compulsive and be precise. It's the best way to be!!! I always enjoy your projects, hope you don't mind my kidding!
Lol. I thought of the sbl skit " The Anal Retentive Carpenter" skit on SNL.
My daughter who has a home studio set up shared this link with me and I ended up running with this concept and just finished 4 panel acoustic speakers for my mancave. Used the Dayton exciters and added a Dayton bass speakers. Ran it through a Rockville Blutube 4 Ohm amp. Also added a Rockville 8 inch subwoofer. WOW!! I have a set of 5th Gen KRK's and some Bose 901 speakers I use for my DJ set up. But these panel speakers are my listening system choice. You made a huge dent and these DIY speakers are hot items on You Tube. Thanks!! 😎
For 40 years I'm building traditional speakers, I mean speakers in a wooden box. I did a couple of working in the air. Personally, I made speakers of 180 cm high and 300 l volumes. I used the Visaton TIW 400 for bass to 100Hz, WSP 21S (100-600Hz), DSM50FFL (600-4500Hz) and DSM25FFL (above 3500Hz). Crossower I made myself with monstruously thick wires for less resistance, in the middle and high range I switched coils of seven wires twisted into one (Tritec) ... Crossower is each weighing 9 kg. After that project I tried to make a flat panel and the result was amazing. I'm not satisfied with the only range in the bass area because I miss the punch. The project I continued on as a model for Martin Logan as a hybrid .... for the bass area I used a classic bass box for medium and high tones from the panel I made earlier. The result is excellent, but the problem is the difference in the SPL and the two components .... I am now solving two separate amplifiers because I also power my speakers with two amplifiers .... for the bass area I tried out many different speakers and the best results I received from JBL extracted from FLIP 4 .....
I know that many speaker manufacturers are skeptical when they see what can be done with much less money because they lose profits. But the speaker's self-construction has always yielded better results, about a 1/10 ratio. My friend for a couple of B & W paid $ 30000 and after listening to my speakers he wanted B & W to return to the English because he felt deceived. Thank you for the project.....
The sound at recording is a bit weaker but it does not diminish the value of your project .....
Wait you're saying the JBL Flip 4 portable speaker was the best subwoofer you could find? Or am I misunderstanding?
Cool story bro...
@@knutjarks6766 si'
@@knutjarks6766 maybe he mean the box...i guess
@@knutjarks6766 the speaker from a Flip 4, I don't get it either.
I made it! My first DIY project from this channel and I couldn't be more happy! Used
Dayton Audio DAEX25 exciters. Next stop: subwoofer.
Do they sound as good as he claims?
I am also thinking about doing something like this but have no idea how to do the amps and the woofer.
This build would fit awesomely on my slanted wall above my computer for the 2 front ones and the center and I could hand the rear ones horizontally where they wouldn't stick out much.
Can you explain how to power them and sub woofer.
nice i will made them to in combi with the sound panels,this guys soooo great,this is the kind of teacher i liked back in time^^
@@JasonWeismannminnesotasmusic They honestly do. Better than I ever expected, even taking his claims full face. For instance, he doesn't really mention that the physics of vibrating the panels directly makes them act like how actual musical instruments work -- but this also means not only can they do the subtle reverb, but they can respond -faster- to sound changes than any cone. There are features in the music I listen to I never knew I wasn't hearing till I made this setup. It was a big surprise. Also, makes voice remarkably real, and you can hear the wavering undertones from voices that you can't with cones (but do hear in person). Actually, I've found these are so good and reproducing sound, I can now very distinctly and obviously hear the different quality of the microphones being used, and the different room spaces of recordings -- I don't mean in a strain your ears sort of "yeah, ok, I can hear it, but maybe it's just their different voices" way, but stark affects on the audio from different recordings where you can very much, "in your face" tell what sort of mic was being used. Another surprise.
You are like "Mr Wizard" for grown ups. I enjoy and appreciate the scientific edge that you put into your tests! Great videos.
Thanks!
Are you saying Mr. Wizard isn't for grown ups? :)
I read this comment and immediately laughed, because that perfectly describes your talent as teacher and scientist. I grew up in the age of Mr. Wizard and your wit and deep technical understanding make your videos incredible! I will be building these for my kids desk areas.
What is the smallest size one should use with this design style?
@@TechIngredients great video and very inspiring. do you by any chance in know and alternate ceiling plate for us overseas? :)
Definitely NOT clickbait as some here have said. You put a lot of effort and research into this and I think these are awesome speakers and you can't beat the cost to build them. Very well done. I'm gonna build some to put in my shop and probably for our house too. Love your channel.
Some people fit them into their listening chair to feel the bass as well as hear it.
I built these speakers to use in conjunction with my current theater/stereo system.
The Setup: I am using two "TriTrix" (parts express) floorstanding speakers for L/R, Bowers & Wilkins for center channel and L/R surrounds. Bowers & Wilkins ASW-750 subwoofer. These panels are mounted hanging behind my TV along the wall, about 5" from the wall itself. I have everything hooked up through my receiver, using "zone 2" function to output the receivers audio into 2 additional amps (Fosi audio) which power these panel speakers.
SOUND QUALITY: AMAZING! With everything set up as described, this system ROCKS. It's almost like being at a live performance, and the sound emanates from the wall itself. I highly recommend using them BUT only to supplement your current stereo as I've done- on their own, these panels are only okay. They are not as defined in the high high range nor in the low low range as my parts express speakers I built for $300, but they are good for what they are. This is where the subwoofer and traditional speakers come in to fill the gaps. However their mid-range performance is exceptional and this is an upgrade over just using traditional speakers. I no longer have listening "sweet spots", rather the whole room is filled with sound! I used to think my system was perfect, but now when I turn the panel speakers off, it sounds like I'm listening in a vacuum, with a narrow soundstage- more like listening through headphones. Once I turn them back on, it's a whole new level of depth, like listening live...Once you try it you'll be hooked!
CONCLUSION: Definitely build these! It's a super fun project and worth the financial risk for less than $200. Plus the listening experience is unlike anything else, so it's just neat to experience. But in my opinion they aren't a replacement for a home stereo without some supplementation. Maybe just a subwoofer would do it, but I can't comment on that since I've only tried it as described. Good luck everyone and happy listening 😁
Drop enough names mister? How about Owen's-Corning. Maybe Pink Panther you entitled non existent to frugality egotistical putz. All those expensive high brow electronics STILL HAD GAPS THAT NEEDED A GARAGE INSULATION PANEL TO IMPROVE. INSTALL ONE IN YOUR BMW. BETWEEN YOU AND THE WINDSHIELD.
You didn't make the video so dont act like it
@@glennbrown8794 are you ok, buddy?
This video popped up on my recommendations and I was instantly intrigued. I have been an audio enthusiast for 60 years and appreciate good sound. While on a very limited budget I have built several "controversial" designs (Remember the Sweet 16 speaker? If you don't and want to hear about it, let me know). I worked for a time in the sixty's at a store selling the most expensive top of the line audio equipment and have seen many interesting and wonderfully sounding speaker designs over the years. I was amazed by a very tiny transducer attached to a styrofoam cooler being demoed and sold at a state fair a few years ago, so when I saw this video, it grabbed my attention. I didn't look for much bass response in this design, but I was VERY impressed with the clarity and presence of the sound samples on the video, especially in the number with the orchestral strings. My sound system is excellent and the compressed youtube audio still allowed me to hear the detail and subtle nuances in the recording. I'm planning to play with this concept soon; it seems like fun and I want to see how impressive it may be. I spent a long time reading all the comments on this video and had to laugh at many of the negative comments posted by self-identified audiophiles that buy the most expensive gear and engineers that like to use numbers to determine the quality of sound. And laughed at the young guys that think that sound quality is bad if their ears don't bleed, lol. Hey, I like to feel the music too, but I want the bass to be clean! The quality is in the listening! ! I don't buy a speaker for it's price, name, reputation, size, wattage, specs or anything other than how well it sounds. I have found excellent sound from very inexpensive gear. (And crappy sound from overpriced and overrated gear). Keep up the good work and don't listen to the egotists that like to criticize every little aspect of your video.
Thanks!
Nice comment.
How does that sweet 16 setup work as a dedicated woofer? It hits 20hz, right?
How'd you get on? Any projects based on this yet/in the works?
Most of the negative comments are from audiophools.... ;)
@@jadedandbitter Sorry I didn't see your comment sooner. If you add up the area of the cones of the 16 speakers, you will find that it is similar in area to an 18 inch woofer. The last set I built was used in a DJ type situation, and the low end was very powerful.
how do you not have more subscribers/viewers? I cannot express enough how much I hate garbage youtube videos that try, and fail, to express scientific and engineering principles properly and clearly. Thanks for doing the good work.
Thank you! Spread the word and we'll get those subscribers.😘
the only reason is most people don't really like long videos, that's why
Ill bet if you made a short summary version to accompany each full video that would draw a lof more people in. Like with your videos on MHD if you just showed liquid metal flowing up hill and titled it "WTF i broke physics" youd get a million clicks in no time. Totally understand if you dont want to degrade yourself though!
Ironic as people can spend hours watching utter crap in 5 min segments but think half n hour is too long! Its a sad day when this genuis has to try and impress these idiots.
@@juancarlospalomino8939 i like long videos but i do not have the time if i want to watch more than one video.
4 dollar 25w dayton audio exciters. oh my. What a world we used to live in. They seem to be about $20-25 now. I should have built these when i first saw these videos.
I snagged a pair of the little three legged 5w ones for $20. I appreciate you taking the time to make such an informative and thorough video series. Time to finally try it out. Wish me luck! :)
Your channel deserves more than a million subscribers! Considering there are a lot of channels here on UA-cam not deserving of a million subscribers. You know who you are.
I'd like to see the frequency response of the entire system. It would be neat to see how that graph compares to a summation of the four separate response graphs.
Mind .. boggling. - I experimented with those materials, but never got to a point where I was comfy with the result. You actually filled the details I missed, like the way and materials to "hang 'em high" for example.
Thanks for sharing!
I'm a redneck country boy. Lol but I made these speakers and there awesome. One modification I made a small hole through the foam that lined up with the center of the exciter. So it could breath and stay cool. Sounded much better even though I didn't think that was possible. Also says cool no matter how hard I'm playing them. Love the work you do. Please keep it going
Redneck Country Boy
I'm going to build some: I'm a travel nurse and ICU Covid nurse and these in one form or another will be a real blast. Thank you!!!!!
i am genuinly amazed how i could have ignored the existence of this channel up to now... this is beyond genius
Let this be a lesson to you and your people.
It would be awesome if you did a DIY subwoofer as a compliment to this video.
Please, I would love to see a whole surround sound setup
@@BoozeBelly ditto
up up
Yes!!!
Seems like you could get some $3-$6 exciters and make some rear surround speakers pretty easy, following a similar formula to what is shown here. Maybe use smaller (or thinner?) piece of foam with smaller exciter. Maybe make them SMALL using acrylic or something like that, to make them blend into the surroundings?
My experience building many different types of speakers from horns to large boxes to panels has been that room acoustics and standing waves are responsible for peaks in response. I loved your experimental technique. I usually used white or pink noise to test response.
I just built them and Oh My God 😮the sound is so clear, crisp and loud.
A cheap and amazing project.
Thanks for sharing your project Tech ingredients.
You're welcome!
The tech research deserves a thumbs up, but a second one is deserved for standing during the Halleluiah Chorus.
I was not interested in any speaker building at all. But after seeing other videos in this channel, I realized that every subject that you approach become interesting, by the clearness and also the depth of your explanations. You are not just making projects, you make others understand the scientific principles behind it. I am not interested in lasers also. But guess what... I thing I`ll enjoy those videos too.
This channel is amazing, so honest and transparent. And of course literally outside the box as well! Thanks for this.
Also inside the box, around the box, through the box, and oh let’s just build a better box…
And not to mention his style is just classic af
Rarely do I go to the trouble of using my “good” headphones to listen to anything on UA-cam.... This was absolutely worth it.
Considering this was recorded using high quality equipment one would expected it would suffer lossless compression via UA-cam. I can only imagine how much better it would be in person.
Thank you for your attention to detail, and straightforward no nonsense presentation.
*It would be interesting to explore the long term integrity of the materials both structurally & tonally.
Thanks!
At the end of our previous video on these speakers I demonstrated them in our home. They're still working well three years later.
If you want to avoid resonances then you want to place your actuator in a position that is an irrational fraction of the way across the panel and up and down, that way you avoid exciting any of the odd or even flexure modes. Your 2/5, 3/5 is nearly there. The most irrational number is the golden ratio. 2,3 and 5 are three adjacent numbers from the Fibonacci sequence. As you go up the sequence the closer the ratios get to Phi, 1:1.618034... A better approximation would be 5/13 and 8/13, just a thought. The whole panel could be a golden rectangle too, which would eliminate the diagonal flexural modes too at higher frequencies. Which even if it does nothing for the sound would look "right".
Have you thought of circles and ellipses? The analysis of the flexural modes is beyond my engineering degree, involving as it does elliptic integrals and Bessel functions. But then you would have no corners to flap about. Actually on second thoughts scratch that, a circle is hopeless as the actuator would always be on a diameter and would excite the first order flex. An ellipse might be worth a try.
Have you seen Chladni plates? These are metal plates excited at different frequencies with sand on the top, the sand gathers at the nodes of the vibration mode and forms patterns. You could use this technique to visualise how your speakers are vibrating.
Donald Sayers he did that in his first video
Though that was done with the plates in a previous video, it would indeed be interesting to see the same technique applied to the actual speakers.
I sort of guessed this by intuitive. Thanks for endorsing.
I too had thought about Fibonacci and ellipses, but ellipse is symmetrical so how about egg shaped?
The perfect shape would be two spherical ellipses slightly overlapping with an additional cylindrical projection five times longer than the width and a width half as wide as the combined spheres originating from the intersection of the spherical eclipse.. the end of the projection would be rounded off in an egg shape. This would give the optimal sound quality.
That is so cool I can't believe it musician and audio buff. You gave me a new hobby thanks for sharing this bless you
the fact that he admits he thinks he is "smart that he actually is". instant subscribe. I've very rarely subscribe to channels but this is a no brainer
Thank you!
Never realized that there were sound transducers which could be attached to ceiling panels to act as speakers! Very interesting and thanks for all that research!
Just made this flat panel speakers with one actuator. In this case I used the Visaton EX 80 S dynamic exciter 50W 8 Ohm. I mounted it on multiplex of 8mm thick, 120 cm x 60 cm and kept to the 2/5 - 3/5 placement. Combined with my old Yamaha RX-V471 receiver this produces an incredible good sound, I had to compensate with the inbuilt equaliser because the high frequencies dominated and the lows were a bit lacking. The sound now rivaling the sound of my Boston Accoustics 360 and those were highly aclaimed in a German audio magazine.
BlindeEzel what would you estimate is the efficiency of your speaker?
@BlindeEzel Welches Multiplex? Bitte sag Birke - will selber 2 solche Panels basteln und geöltes Birke Multiplex sieht dafür einfach mmmh aus :)
I know this is a bit old but could you explain the 2/5 3/5 rule? If i put the exciter 2/5 of the way on one side isn't it always 3/5 on the other? Also at the end he says 2/3 3/5 rule is that something different or did he misspeak
@@ThePurplePeon 2/5 from the side, 3/5 from the top. This is CLOSE to the golden rule ratio 1/1.618.
This is when a line is divided into two parts, and the longer part (a) divided by the smaller part (b) is equal to the sum of (a) + (b) divided by (a), which both equal 1.618.
A better approximation would actually be 5/13 & 8/13.
@@SJ-km5ly So basically the further up the Fibonacci sequence the closer, right?
In about a span of three hours, I have figured out how I am going to build my movie/listening room thanks to this genius! Most importantly, I think the wife will like the results.!!! Now. If you could make a video on how to hang a couple 13 or 14 panels at the exact same height, and straight, it would be much appreciated.
lazers
I expected to see how these peaks and troughs from different panels balance each other when used in a combination. It would have been nice to see that frequency sweep for the combination as well. Otherwise, very clear and fascinating. Thanks
This was a great video and thanks for providing such a detailed analysis of the speaker profiles. Since the response of all eight panel speakers is a superposition it would have been really cool if you had summed the individual response plots or if you had recorded the same frequency sweep with all speakers working together. This would give a much more quantitative view of how flat the system response is. Either way, really great video and keep up the great work!
I REALLY Wish to see the summed results as well!! Maybe they Really Are the best speakers out there, and ~120 for a full set (of 8 drivers)
Then after doing that you write a little program that runs through every combination and give the correlation to a straight line.
wow ! the result at the end with combining the panels is awesome !
I learned the definition for the word "friable" many years ago and can't tell you how pleased I am to finally hear it used by someone. It made me feel smarter than I really am ;)
Crumbly
i am amazed by the knowlege you have and naild every aspect of this project well done you deserve a award 👏👏👏👏👏👏
I just want to sit in the corner of your shop and learn stuff man. You really have a lot stuff
ditto
me also ahahah
Stuff is neat
i'm always thinking the same... well, we do it "virtually" in his videos, anyway this videos are amazing
Looks like he needs at least 6 more chairs in his shop for all of us!!!
I just hung a pair of the pink foam ones and they sound great!! Thanks so much for the awesome videos, you're definitely in my top 5 favorite channels ever.
Me too. Stunned. used FOAMULAR 1 in. x 2 ft. x 2 ft. R-5 Small Projects Rigid Pink Foam Board Insulation Sheathing and 40 watt version exciters.
@@YorHighness I am interested in learning whether you think they sound good as is or whether you think it should be coupled with a subwoofer?
@@johnjacquesmalan Subwoofer is needed for under 150hz yes
@@YorHighness How do they sound on lower volumes? I'm thinking about replacing my bookshelf speakers with these.
It would be nice if you did a final frequency sweep and frequency response test please. What is the frequency range of these?
I think if you look up the exciters, in the description you should find frequencies.
@@johnbeard3613 There is no frequency response from the manufacturer as that is solely dependant on the material they're attached to.
I feel the same. It would have been insightful to see the combined frequency response for the channel. Furthermore, I would like to have seen him prove his assertion of a flatter response across the spectrum.
I agree. After ALL he did to demonstrate various frequency responses of the various panels, and with his supposition that, by combining the various panels, frequency response peaks and valleys could be minimized, I feel it's incumbent upon him to prove his assertion. WHERE'S THE FINAL FREQUENCY RESPONSE GRAPH? GIVE IT TO US.
I agree. I kept waiting for him to find the combined frequency response. I was let down. Please do this... :)
I was hoping that you would run a sound analysis of all four speakers playing together. It would be interesting to see what that graph looks like.
As well as simply sum the graphs and to see what that looks like.
Seems the overall frequency response would be the most important test. The demo sounded a little light on the low end. Some digital processing would be appropriate, especially given the number of amps used to drive the panels.
@@kenlarock7356 There's no doubt in my mind that these speakers can't push a lot of air, so this system would need to be supplemented with a subwoofer. That said, whatever you heard was subject to the microphone he used, and the speakers you use.
I was hoping to see a labelled analysis of all the panels tested. He showed all the results but not a breakdown of which one is which.
Not only is this dude blowing my mind, it honestly feels like he compacts like 3 years of science learning in high school into about 3 mins, love it, thank you - no really, thank you!!!!
Honestly if all science lessons were taught like this, we'd have a mass of increase of budding young scientists coming through.
@@aries6776 Hell Yeah Brother! - Its baffling that some people don't even know how to read time on an "Analog clock" these days -.- Human beings are not going to be at the top of the evolutionary food chain much longer, just based on the sole observation of Confusion at 4 way stops lol
You and the unseen support effort are just wonderful.
Thanks!
I can't get over the brightness and the absolute perfectly tuned deep bass, comparable to that of high end system.
I'm thinking, what about all of these $10K + speaker companies competing with a sub $100 set up. The DIY work is minimal.
why not put a Diagram in them for the bass signal
The vast majority of people who take pride in being scientific have never done a scientific analysis of anything. It is wonderful to see someone doing actual experimentation to learn, and passing on the results to other people. Thank you, wonderful.
I've never been interested in sound systems but this video makes me want to build one.
Great! It's really easy.😀
@@TechIngredients Same as Rachel a bit above, I would love to see frequency response charts and a plot of max SPL by frequency, you compare them to bookshelf speakers but lets see some specific figures. :)
and polar radiation dispersion plots if you have them (you should at least have some data on the subject, unless you have never moved the mic for some reason...) please
It takes out a bit of value from the vid when you ignore all request for specific numbers, it's somewhat suspicious... but you give a Like or answer to posts that are just uncritical praise
WOW! That was a phenomenal display of the magic of acoustics and resonance.
I own a very expensive pair of spkrs for my HiFi system, but I still have to make these!
I can only imagine how these panels would sound with a set or even one subwoofer.
You have certainly stolen one of my upcoming weekends, which I thank you very much for!
Did you ever get around to doing it? I'd really like some other people's opinions on how they compare to a traditional hifi bookcase or powered monitor set up
I just want to extend a sincere but massive amount of gratitude to you as I'm about to briefly explain a very odd yet satisfying phenomenon that I'm currently experiencing. Your video popped up randomly in my recommended and while watching I immediately hit a state of euphoria that is unparalleled to anything I've ever experienced before. I couldn't possibly begin to try and explain to you what or why, just that for some reason the visual stimuli from your video triggered this phenomenon in me and I couldn't be more grateful.
A completely out-of-the-box comment, and has no correlation to your video, but thank you regardless. Bless you sir!
@Tech Ingredients- You should be proud!! This speaker building method has taken on a life of it's own lately! Suddenly there are many new videos on You Tube that are crediting you for introducing these simple & inexpensive DML panel speakers. Personally, I'm excited that you also showed how vibrations form various geometric patterns in the sugar you poured on excited plates. I had only seen that done once before and I am facinated by that situation because it looks just like what I have always seen in a telescope while viewing stars.
That's great!
Plus all excited are on backorder.
The fact that I listened through the whole listening test is, in itself I think, proof of the sound quality of these speakers. Even though (at least to my reckoning) you haven't set them up to their best potential, they sound great! Well done!
Absolutely impressive, listening here with Genelec 8040a studio monitors.
I hope I’m not the only one who imagines attaching art prints on top of these and putting them in each room of my house as a big house wide speaker system where the audio follows you from room to room
You could silk screen or a vinyl wrap but layering would change the resonance profiles.
I would think similarly to sound treatment you could do this. If you painted onto the flat wood panels as long as it wasn't thick acrylic style it really should not hurt the sound noticeably. If you could print onto a thin film and then glue this to the substrate should be fine.
@@Mr.Unacceptable considering the low mass of either I would be surprised if it changed it much, but hey, one more test to do!
I thought the same, but remember that these panels will vibrate quite a bit as the music plays. So It could get a little disturbing to look at when they are playing. If the panels are plain you will probably not see the vibration, vs. if they have a detailed print.
Projector Screen!!!
Audiophile greetings from central Poland - thank you!
I have been following this concept on your channel and I have to say it is truly inspiring, together with your brilliant explanation of not only How but Why a certain path is works. The sheer depth of research with different materials and techniques blended with good science, leads me to conclude as a "science/tech channel" yours shifts gear when others have finished.
Well Done.
I am considering this design as an extension speaker for my Amateur radio to maybe improve vocal clarity!
73 Barnie.
I can't believe how good these sound! They're so unconventional and cheap. Thanks!
Listening to this on a bose wave radio 3 and it sounds extremely good. Also took a lot of screen shots. I am sooo doing this in my house!!! Love this video!!!🤩
@@keithmarlowe5569 no I got four different books on procrastination that I got to start first. LOL I got so many irons in the fire my friend it might be awhile before I get around to doing this. But I do have the speakers on reserve on Amazon.
I’m completely blown away. Might be a simple thing for many, but this just left me mouth wide open. I’m assuming this is how that “stick it to anything speaker works. Idk. I so appreciate your research. One day I must try this! I turned my sorrowing sound cause I wanted to see where are the low frequencies like. And my system is picking them!
Man I’m grinning like an idiot! Thx brother!
You're welcome!
Go for it.
I've made a few 2'x4' panel speakers with 1/4" thick foamcore board and it works extremely well. Very lightweight and quite loud. Polystyrene foam picnic plates make great smaller speakers.
I was thinking about the foam core too. The picnic plates -- 😂😂😂
This guy is a freak and i love it. I first discovered this channel when i was doing transmission line research. In the near future i will likely pursue this setup. When he did the sweep the high frequencies came across surprisingly clear which really got my attention. Thank you for toe efforts
did you do a frequency sweep and frequency response of the final combination of the extruded foam panels? can please share (just curious)
Was also wondering about this
I was thinking the same before I scrolled do to your comment.
I'd like to se an A-B with the Polk little set
very curved frequency response and almost nothing above 10kHz
I really thought they were going to test right after the combo.
See the number of subscribers of those who claim ‘clickbait’ vs 767k subscribers for this genius. Absolutely amazing work. I showed this to a sound engineer and he said you’re on point. Top stuff
Thanks!
There is more than just frequency response to a good speaker. Could you test how much the sin input is actually still a sin on the output, and what the generated overtones are? Because the different panels definitely sounded different in the sweap, indicating overtones. The problem is, frequency response can be corrected by equalizers, overtones can not and make the actual quality of a speaker.
Really interested in a response to this before I try this out
@@qm3ster This clearly has a crazy amount of harmonic distortion. It also will act as a dipole, so room interaction is quite severe. As a science experiment: fun. If you just want decent listening devices, get a pair of active studio mointor speakers with constant directivity - it will save you loads of money and time.
@numb I have a set of JBL studio monitors. They don't perform as well as the little $6.00 thrift store Sony book shelf speakers I found. Very disappointed in my JBL purchase.
@@danj7348 some people actually buy tube amps to have pleasant harmonic distortion. I guess vinyl has some as well. The question is more how much harmonic distortion these panels give compared to regular studio speakers or tube amps? How come you say crazy amount of harmonic distortion? The quality of the mic recording of this speaker is a huge factor in judging the harmonic distortion.
@@foenzie F Sure, some people may like the sound, but that hardly makes them "the Best". Speakers should objectively reproduce the sound of a recording as precise as possible. If you like to add a lot of distortion or other effects added to your sound, there a many ways to do so - adding it in the speakers is one of the worst, because you have no control over its intensity and can´t switch it off.You are baically building a musical instrument, not a speaker.
I know they will have distortion because the main source of these in speakers are cone/panel breakup, material resonances and unlinearities in the the motor.
Engineers have spent ~ 100 years now to find the perfect materials which either dampen away resonances or move them out of the relevant acoustic range, optimize a motor to act linear in small and big amplitudes and shape the propagation of sound evenly across the frequency-range. But you think they somehow overlooked such a simple solution? No - we all tried something like this as little kids and then, if interested in the hobby of speaker-building, went on to build more serious stuff.
As Adam Savage used to say, it's not science if you're not writing it down... Or in this case documenting on video. Super cool. And I'm glad I had my headphones on for this, it really sounded great with the stereo separation.
Outstanding. Thanks Mr. Peabody for aurally enhancing my understanding of these principals
Just a heads up for anyone doing this. I just completed them, but did some more research on home made DML (Flat panels). The audio quality increases IMMENSELY if you coat the front and back of both panels with 2 layers of a 1:1 Wood Glue and Water mixture after sanding. I tested them before and after, and the coating adds a lot more low end, and overall makes the speakers sound significantly better.
I also found it important to hang the speaker wires coming off the panel away from the panel. You can bend the attachment point with pliers, its just important the wires don't touch the panel too much.
I'd also recommend tinkering with your eq settings. I found a round curve downwards shape worked best (Lets say 1 cm downward for the lowest end 60 to 150hz, 0.8 cm for 150 to 400 hz, 0.3 cm for 400 to 1 khz, 0.1 for 1 to 2.4 khz and 0.4 upwards for 2.4 to 15 khz)
Did you make the whole 4 panel system, or just one or two?
@@kevinryan7154 2
I've been waiting for this follow up for months now! Yay!
How about eliminating the back wave? I.e. the sound wave that travels from the backside of your panel, reflects from the wall behind it, then travels to the listener, cancelling out some of the frequencies due to interference. If I'm right, the resulting frequencies "pits" pattern should change as you change the distance of panel from the wall.
To eliminate the backwave you can use some sound absorption material or some sound reflective cones, placed on the wall or on the panel itself.
I would appreciate if you could test it.
Anyway, I believe this idea is great! Thank you for your research!
If you add to panel it may dampen or eliminate the effectiveness of of the panel. Also it isn't reverberating like a speaker to the wall behind it shouldn't matter as much
Jeez I love this channel. It makes me feel dumb, seriously I feel like its my first day in school and I have been dropped in Advanced Multivariable Calculus 3/4 of the way in the year at MIT or something. BUT I kinda enjoy the ignorance. I watch and think "I have no idea whats really going on here but I like it."
Moritz Neumann you clearly missed the point of the comment.
Moritz Neumann maybe to someone with a degree in acoustical engineer. But for the average American this is way over our/their heads. Hell I went to a one year broadcast sound Engineering class in high school and we never really covered material sciences and acoustics.
x9x9x9x9x9 Very well said lol
x9x9x9x9x9 its that feeling of selfimprovemnt and acceptance of ignorance what makes men so superior.
I can tell you that i have met many females throughout my life and that feeling is like cryptonite for them... Just another reason why the wage gap will always be present and men will dominate every single field/thing compared to females
*for manginas reading me and getting triggered: im willing to bet my right hand that females arent even a 10% of the views of tgis channel, proving me right
@@mrmaunz42 It is, its basically applied advanced physics
What a great channel .. I’m making these tomorrow for my living room , I have concrete walls on two sides and can’t stand the echo , this sounds like a great solution for my kinda budget ..thank you for your knowledge and your time
They'll work even better if you hang something on the walls behind them that absorbs the sound that comes off the back of the panel. As we demonstrated in our videos on these materials, acoustic ceiling tiles are probably the best for this purpose, but a rug, blanket or a heavy curtain will help.
This is one of the most interesting things I’ve ever seen!!! Thank you
"I get an 8" Diameter 4" Radius disc... "
"Where the hell do I get such a precise scientific measuring device"
"... From a flower pot"
The essence of genius
I used my wife’s dessert plate, exactly 8”. She doesn’t know.
A flower pot cleverly disguised as a pot lid. :-)
(Hey I'm not doggin', it's an amazing video and very informative series. Makes me wanna build this speaker array RTFN, and I also get my words all mixed up when I'm in the flow. Keep on making awesome vids TechIngredients!
@@MarcoLandin Or it's a flour pot lid.
Use your noggen
Compelling, an elegant advancement of acoustic art and science. Well done and very much appreciated. Thanks for rekindling an interest that left me years ago.
This technology creates possibilities for recovering sonic realism from recordings. Specifically, using various panels optimized so the sound field of original recordings is recovered aurally from any listening position.
I did this decades ago with traditional drivers and 12dB/octave X-overs. That version was included into the original Cineplex Toronto theatre. Now it’s synthetically done with computers, but I’m certain these panels could inexpensively duplicate an “audio hologram.”
So refreshing!!! This is what UA-cam science was supposed to be - without the idiocy and clowning of wannabe influencers and attention-seekers; and, watched my dimwits and lackeys. Thank you, Sir!
Very cool concept! Is there a frequency response measurement for the combined 4 panels altogether? Wonder how that would look like
Great long term project! But did you ever consider trying the irregular shape of a guitar/violin/cello? I think one of the reasons luthiers ended up with this modified figure of 8 shape after a few centuries of experience is that this shape give different diameters and thereby different resonances in the same object. Deep tones resonate longitudinally and high tones transversely.
Could also be interesting to do this experiment with the actuators mounted on a couple of guitar resonance cases without strings and necks. Certainly not cheap speakers but an interesting contribution to science!
And about material, what about the favorite of string instruments, spruce/fir, did you ever try that? It´s quite a cheap wood.
Keep up!
I was thinking the same thing, a kidney shape or random curve that has no 2 distances from the exciter the same and avoiding 4 corners that will want to have their own resonance multiplied by 4 might up the sound quality. I would think the 4 corners of the rectangular panels must be resonating in sync with each other smearing the frequency response a little, adding some fake ringing. The fact there is any high frequency at all means the exciter is in complete control of those large panels though. Amazing they can resonate fairly flat high frequency with that kind of weight. I'm guessing efficiency is low and you need to drive them with more power than a typical speaker.
Also with f holes cut into them
Love the work you guys do!
When I think of a traditional loudspeaker I think of a permanent magnet rigidly mounted to a frame so neither of those can move. The voice coil, which is free to move within the permanent magnet, is attached to the cone so they can move in unison as the electromagnetic field of the voice coil interacts with the permanent magnet, producing voice coil/cone movement and therefore sound. Because the speaker enclosure, speaker frame and permanent magnet are all stationary all of the movement energy is supplied to the cone to move air and produce sound. All of this is no great mystery.
In the construction of the flat panel speakers great care is taken to make sure the panel mounting method does not inhibit the panel movement. This makes sense as the panel produces the sound. What I can't make sense of is why the audio exciter is not rigidly mounted so all of the energy is expended to produce sound from the flat panel. What seems to happen is BOTH the flat panel and the base of the audio exciter are moving. With both moving this must greatly impact the speaker efficiency, frequency response and speaker resonance points. Also, it seems to me the relationship of the mass of the audio exciter base to the mass of the flat panel along with the air resistance acting upon it would have a dramatic effect. In other words, when the audio exciter tries to move a large mass (wood panel) more of the movement would happen in the audio exciter base than when it tries to move a smaller mass (XPS Panel).
My questions are, 1- Why in these flat panel speakers is the audio exciter base not attached to a substantially immovable object? (similar to how a traditional speaker works) 2- Has the efficiency and frequency response of a rigidly mounted audio exciter base flat panel speaker been compared to the exact same speaker when the audio exciter is allowed to move freely? I would be very interested in the comparison but don't have the equipment to perform it myself.
Agreed, would like to see this addressed
My guess it has to do with some sort of impedance matching between the mass of the actuator, and the mass of the pannel/how hard the actual exciter can push.
I think the exciter cant really push that hard, so if you attach it to a board on one end, and an immovable object on the other, the board wont vibrate that much since the exciter just cant push very hard. Now if you detach it from the immovable object, your force stays somewhat the same as before (assuming the moving voice coil doesn't make too much back EMF) and now that the mass of the exciter is moving. I think this extra moving mass acts to add an extra joult of momentum when it changes direction. Kind of like kicking when you're doing a push-up gives you a quick jolt of upward momentum
I think the exciter is unable to put out enough force and is stalling out (much like a car engine does), and disconecting the immovable object would be kind of analogous to adding a torque converter.
I think this is similar to the way billiard balls transfer almost 100% of their energy when colliding (like a newtons cradle) while striking a ping pong ball with a billiard transfer basically no energy (the billiard ball and ping pong ball move about the same speed). I think the same way the ratio of masses matters in a collision, the ratio of masses matters in a DML speaker. I think letting the mass of the transducer vibrate instead of fixing the back of the transducer to a rigid object would make for better energy transfer
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impedance_matching#Mechanics
This is outstanding DIY jump off point! THANK YOU !
I will be screwing around and playing with this concept and having a total blast!
I have a smallish living room and putting up that many panels wouldn't be an option. I was wondering what would be the sound if each of the panels was scaled down to a quarter of the size which would be 6"x12" for the tile and 6"x6" for the EPS.
Also, what would happen if 2 exciters were put on the same panel, one at 3/5-2/5 and one at center (series v parallel)?
You would be much better off going with a single larger panel on each side because as you shrink the panel, you are going to change the overall frequency range to be more toward highs. With the single panel, you aren't going to get as much flatness due to the peaks and valleys canceling each other out, but you will have a much more even overall sound than with several tiny panels.
I watched several other of your videos and only I got into these speaker concepts late. You performed so many audio engineering tests! Then when you used 40W exciters, I remembered Dayton Audio DAEX25 Sound Exciter Pair/s. Thinking back with your use of counterweights against resonant response and now where you now use the 40W exciter, you could place 4 (10W @ 4 Ohm each) into the configuration of counterweights on each of only the two accoustic tiles. Wire one pair in series and another pair in series then feed both pair in parallel for 8 Ohm 40W. (Then there's Newton's third law; so, fasten the opposite side of the exciters with styrofoam on that same array?) Another thought was more from radiating electromagnetic waves from patch antennae. You rounded all the corners of a pair of estruded polystyrene. Patch antennae have a corner cut to make them right or left circularly polarized. Did you try to round an odd corner or leave one corner square, rather than round all the corners?
Hipster: I'm kind of an audiophile.
Tech Ingredients Dude: Hold my beer.
Waiting with baited breath
No, hold my waragi.
Actually, it's hold my moonshine. He makes his own. And a hipster would never hold a beer. They only hold IPAs.
@@deckmonkey1459 Taking parts that a company made and sticking them together isn't that impressive.
Now, if you want to impress, why don't you design and mfg. your own actual drivers, design your own crossover, if needed, and make your own cabinet and then bring it to an audiophile show and get people's attention enough for them to start buying them so you can run a profitable business for MANY, MANY years.
Go do that and if you can run a company, that's profitable, and you are designing and mfg. everything yourself, THAT would impress me..
Oneness100 You got all this wrong ‘Mr. Audiophile’. The whole idea of this video is to show that people can cheaply and extremely successfully craft their own speakers for $100, building an incredibly high efficiency sound system at home. I’d be far more impressed seeing this at my friends home and any average purchased set of speakers.
A proud owner of Bowers&Wilkins Nautilus + Audio Note Japan Ongaku.
I realize this video is 4+ years old at this point... but I have to say, I just finished watching the previous video and this one and I'm blown away. I would love to hear these in person, and put them up against something like a set of Magneplanar speakers (So far the best sounding, widest-stage speakers I've heard in my life)
This has given me so much to think about, and turned my plans for a new home theater system completely upside down. Thank you!
My thoughts too. Although, looking at the amount of space required for each channel to have a balanced output of 4 panels, I'm not sure it's practical for a home theater setup with 5.1 channels, let alone 7.1 or higher with Atmos or DTS:X. Seems like something better for a 2.1 channel music listening room. By size alone, these things seem like they could fill a room with sound very nicely in 2.1. I'll have to keep looking through his channel to see if he ever gets good results from smaller panels.
And is no one going to comment such brilliant whistling?!
yeah it’s actualy hurting my ears
I have worked with live audio/PA systems for about 27 years. In your first video of this project, you show your home system that you talk about 2 panels per side; the larger one for low frequencies. But then you say they are wired in series so that the two 4 ohm speakers have an 8 ohm load on the amplifier. To increase the quality of sound, we use crossovers to separate the low and high frequencies. But we are using traditional cone speakers. Active crossovers are the best for power consumption and to best utilize amplifiers (in this video, you are using an active crossover at the end). However, a passive crossover is the most cost effective way to go if a person wanted to send separated signals to two seperate exciters for low and high frequencies in their living room. But there is another thing to consider: the panel seems more like a midpoint in the medium of air and I'm thinking that fluid dynamics would cause a single source of large flat delivery to not cause cancelation. So, my question is: would a crossover add to the fidelity of the sound? And what frequency would you go for as the crossover point? Dayton Audio makes some nice passive crossovers that you or I could house as a discrete device between the amplifier and the speakers.
The frequency overlap with these two panels is significant. Much more so than say a tweeter, mid range and woofer. It isn't clear where a cross over should be placed because the biggest difference between these panels is their extensions at the high and low ends of the frequency range.
So, I think the answer is that this is an unexplored area. Therefore, I hereby submit a viewer request for you to do a third video to explore passive crossover additions to your configuration. Love your channel!
We are doing a third and fourth video. The next covers the anechoic chamber we built for further analysis and the fourth will retest some of these speakers.
@@TechIngredients YOU BUILT AN ANECHOIC CHAMBER!!!!!! I am very excited.
Ya, we did. It works.
“Woofers and tweeters” are combined to enhance the sound quality because different sizes of speakers have different frequency characteristics, a large panel paired with a smaller panel will create a fuller sound quality. I like the idea of using inexpensive panels to create a wall of sound🤗
Thank you!. I just wonder what happens when you combine four speakers within the same frequency range? Couldn't the summed SPL give interference peaks - much dependant of the listeners (microphone) position in relation to the four speakers? It would be nice to see examples for different listener positions - in comparison to a single speaker.
You will get constructive and destructive interference based on frequency or wavelength and of course phase relationships. The room its self is also a speaker and these things when summed together are complex to model and measure where even the measurement its self would only be valid for the exact position in space it was done.
The most ideal loudspeaker would come from an indefinitely small single point source however basic physics prevents and therefore we can only ever try to achieve such ideals.
An invisible, all speaker ceiling seems like a rad idea!
Im going to do that in the near future ;
Guillermo Marturet Fendt And then must post a video about it.
Remember that outside of very low frequencies, sound is meant to be directional . . . that is to say, it is accurately reproduced when the listener is able to perceive the direction the sound is coming from.
A possible exception to this is the rear surround speakers in a home theater, where they often reproduce the soundtrack's "ambient" sound; for this reason rear surround speakers correctly positioned when they are about 3 feet over the listener's head. By ensuring that most of the directional sound is only heard as it reflects off of room surfaces, it creates the allusion of omnidirectional sound. In the the case of surround speakers, a large array of emitters could be fun to play with . . . with one caveat: don't go overboard, as 7.1+ surround sound systems have become more common, the surround channels are being used more and more for directional content. Also note that surround speakers don't face downward, they direct sound across the listening position . . . so if the panels are installed horizontally, they will be facing the wrong direction. This being said, Dolby Atmos and DTS:X require or allow for ceiling mounted, downward facing speakers.
Alternatively, if the intent is to provide MORE sound and you are willing to sacrifice accuracy, this could be a fun way to provide a more uniform listening experience across many different positions.
MrChompenstein makes a lot of sense. However, the fact that you can't tell where the sound is coming from exactly can itself be an immersive experience. Finding a way to balance the two is an interesting subject of it's own. Even with flat panels, behind you is behind you. With flat panel speakers, right and left are still separate, they just don't come from point sources, but rather emanate from a general direction. A small room might suffer from overuse of this type of speaker in some ways, but a sufficiently large room may benefit from it. It sounds like fun playing with that and seeing what you get.
You're absolutely right, my main concern was with the intent of positioning them in/as the ceiling itself . . . as this would change the direction of the speaker. The ambient sounds may likely benefit from not being a point source . . . but in instances where the audio "passes over head" from say the front right speaker to the back left it may be awkward to hear it change from point source to broad source . . . or not, something to play with for sure. It is preferred in home theater arrangements for the front speakers to be "timbre matched," which is to say that they are all the same speakers. The human ear is much better at discerning sound in the frontal plane, therefore tonal differences between mismatched speakers can be distracting. It is generally accepted that the rear speakers do not need to be timbre matched to the fronts.
From a non-point source and immersion standpoint, this type of speaker is interesting as an inexpensive option for the Dolby Atmos/DTS:X formats . . . as the orientation would be correct. The effect may also be correct, though I don't have enough experience with these new formats to really understand all the ways they are utilized. If I understand correctly, DTS:X may handle this better than Dolby Atmos because is doesn't have a strictly defined layout.
It would be really awesome if you could upload the raw audio files somewhere for us to download and play back uncompressed. I have a feeling it probably won't make much difference on the end user side of things, but it will at least alleviate some of the naysayers. This is definitely an inspiring experiment at the least, and a viable high-quality home theater setup at the best. I would say that makes this video extremely valuable compared to 99% of the trash you find on UA-cam these days. Thanks for your time, effort, and heart you put into these videos!
Thanks. Despite our limitations, that is the purpose behind all our video's: we're not showing off, but showing how and hopefully others with more particular skills can run with it.
Compression is less than 5% of difference
Depends on the kind of compression being used. To me, an MP3 sounds very different from CD audio.
@@isaacmadhavan Again that is a loaded question, there are good and bad MP3's just like CD's.
@@MegaEpstein I guarantee that UA-cam compresses the video more than 5%. The less than 5% difference may be true for the audio raw->mp3 conversion, but UA-cam is definitely going deeper than 5%. Every percent of compression could equate out to a hefty sum of overhead shaved off their bottom line for served data.
Very interesting.
I remember when I first came across something called poly plainers
in the late 1960’s early 70’s.
They were dense styrofoam panels with a thin aluminum transducer disc glued to the center.
Your panels sound much better and are less expensive.
Thank you.
Godspeed.
So many the I never thought I would find something that's not traditional I love It haven't watched I'm watching I'm excited to see what is going to be learned here thank you and appreciate stay strong my friend