Okay, I realize that people don’t like Theon because they fundamentally misunderstand his story. And even in the show where they glossed over the particulars to make the Starks look better, Theon was a hostage NOT an adoptive brother. This is pointed out by Tyrion and Ros in particular. Even Robb tells Theon he’s not part of their house! Theon's crimes were against the Miller's children, he owed the Starks absolutely nothing.
People are simple. It is easy to love Jon Snow, he is easier to get, he's the good guy. It's dumb, but it is what it is. The good part is that people who do think a thing or two would end up appreciating a good and complex character.
what theon does to the millers is another instance of confused identity. his literal stripping of their identities is a extreme image of how damaging the act is in any context. in a strange way he elevates their status, as their deaths are given more significance as bran and rickon’s. they are recognized as starks in a way theon will never be. the fact that ramsey suggests it foreshadows what he will later do to theon, yet theon is delusional enough to believe he is in control and to miss ramsey’s own manipulation of his identity.
I think why people say its a betrayal is cause how him and robb were close friends since they were children and even have the same love a brother would have for his brother, also you made it sound like they kidnapped him, hostages in those times were sent to one and another to prevent war, they don't get treated terribly if anything he was treated well and saw Ned as a surrogate father. its not a betrayal in the sense of breaking an alliance but like how someone would betray his best friend
@@homersimpson6585 Theon is technically Roberts hostage since he's the one who had him taken, it wasn't neds choice. But even he was treated good he's still there against his and his family's will. And if his father rebelled he still would have been killed. I get what you're saying about Theon and Robbs relationship, so you could say it was a personal betrayal.
@@orionnebula1136 yeah in a way I do agree he was taken as a hostage but became a ward and was treated right but that’s to ensure Balon won’t end up betraying him, but the betrayal was due to his close friendship with Robb and initially pledging his allegiance to Robb when the war of the five kings broke out
I don’t know why people think he’s a victim. , if you read the books, he didn’t think twice about screwing over the Starks. He never saw himself as a stark he only regretted it when he realize his dad wasn’t there for him once he realized Winterfell was going the wrong way he got what he deserved. That was the only good thing Ramsey ever did.
I don't know if you realize this; but the Starks didn't consider Theon as a Stark or family either. Robb was the only one he was close with. Theon didn’t deserve what Ramsay what Ramsay did to him. And Ramsay would have done the same to the Stark children if Theon didn’t run them off.
@@augustusfreeman4032 yes, he did you sacked Riverdale he killed two innocent children. He killed the mason He betrayed the people that took care of him. He deserved every inch of what he got.
@@nope3249 Stop pretending that you care about the Miller's boys dude. You're just upset that Theon picked his family over his captors, Theon's crimes were against the Miller's children, he owed the Starks absolutely nothing.
Atleast in retrospect, my biggest thought when re-reading Theon is the missed opportunity. He gets home to the islands and is mistreated by his real family, so he gets desperate and bold, and tries to prove himself in war. Ironically it turns out the Ironborn who are more similar in disposition to Theon are more common than he ever thought. House Blacktyde wants nothing to do with war, and neither did the Botleys until the coup, if Theon had just stayed at Pyke and got in good with some of the Ironborn houses, it might have taken a few years, but I think Theon could have eventually actually taken over the islands! and now with him being excluded from the Kingsmoot, he is the only one who can defeat and invalidate Euron!
I wouldn't call theon's story two dimensional in the show. In some ways there is more complexity by having him see the starks as family beyond just robb
Its kind of shocking that George said he couldnt understand why Theon became a favorite character for so many. Of course he is just a terrible human being but what George puts him through in Dance makes him so much more compelling. I cant wait to see what happens to him in Winds, especially with that sample chapter and Bran/Bloodraven communicating through the ravens to go to that weirwood tree.
He murdered an entire family: father, mother and two adolscent children - for no reason but to cover up his own fuck-up. "What George puts him through" is called commeupance.
@@Alknix I'm not sure what your point is, we all know he is a POS. I wasn't excusing any of the awful things he has done. In interviews George has said that it surprised him to learn that Theon was the favorite of so many readers. Those chapters in Dance made his character so much more compelling. It's okay to have a favorite character that is a terrible person. For instance my favorite character is probably Jamie and he tried to murder a child to cover up his incestuous relationship with his sister. Yes he isn't a good person but that doesn't change the fact that he is a compelling character.
@@dookieshoe2905 Well, I'm with George here. Jaime may have started as a douchebag, but he got much better in later books, and he didn't do any really stupid shit aside from killing Ned's guards, and even that was in retaliation for the assault on his brother. But Theon? Theon sucks! He's a laughing stock, and a punching bag, and it's always his own fault. He disrespects his peers, he's a sleezebag, he's self-absorbed, ignorant, shortsighted, arrogant. He's pretty much the same as Joffrey. What exactly makes him compelling in "Dance"? Being tortured? So was Vargo Hoat. And afterwards Theon just sulks in the corner and needs Bran to mess with his brain until he wakes the hell up and does a single noble thing.
@@dookieshoe2905 Jaime, Sandor and Tywin are all fan favourite characters, and they're ten times worse people than Theon. And no Theon is not a fan favourite.
Okay, I realize that people don’t like Theon because they fundamentally misunderstand his story. And even in the show where they glossed over the particulars to make the Starks look better, Theon was a hostage NOT an adoptive brother. This is pointed out by Tyrion and Ros in particular. Even Robb tells Theon he’s not part of their house! Theon's crimes were against the Miller's children, he owed the Starks absolutely nothing.
Watching Stark stans talk about Theon is cringe asl. It's like they read a completely different series. 😂
Robb doesn't actually mean it like that
He later even tells Theon he'll always be his brother
People are simple. It is easy to love Jon Snow, he is easier to get, he's the good guy. It's dumb, but it is what it is. The good part is that people who do think a thing or two would end up appreciating a good and complex character.
I mainly dislike him because he's purely a plot device to get Brann moving north.
He didnt owe House Stark anything, but he did betray Robb
what theon does to the millers is another instance of confused identity. his literal stripping of their identities is a extreme image of how damaging the act is in any context. in a strange way he elevates their status, as their deaths are given more significance as bran and rickon’s. they are recognized as starks in a way theon will never be. the fact that ramsey suggests it foreshadows what he will later do to theon, yet theon is delusional enough to believe he is in control and to miss ramsey’s own manipulation of his identity.
Wow. Should’ve included this as a paragraph HAHAH
What Theon did to the starks was bad but not a betrayal. A hostage cannot 'betray' their captors.
I think why people say its a betrayal is cause how him and robb were close friends since they were children and even have the same love a brother would have for his brother, also you made it sound like they kidnapped him, hostages in those times were sent to one and another to prevent war, they don't get treated terribly if anything he was treated well and saw Ned as a surrogate father. its not a betrayal in the sense of breaking an alliance but like how someone would betray his best friend
@@homersimpson6585 Theon is technically Roberts hostage since he's the one who had him taken, it wasn't neds choice. But even he was treated good he's still there against his and his family's will. And if his father rebelled he still would have been killed. I get what you're saying about Theon and Robbs relationship, so you could say it was a personal betrayal.
@@orionnebula1136 yeah in a way I do agree he was taken as a hostage but became a ward and was treated right but that’s to ensure Balon won’t end up betraying him, but the betrayal was due to his close friendship with Robb and initially pledging his allegiance to Robb when the war of the five kings broke out
I don’t know why people think he’s a victim. , if you read the books, he didn’t think twice about screwing over the Starks. He never saw himself as a stark he only regretted it when he realize his dad wasn’t there for him once he realized Winterfell was going the wrong way he got what he deserved. That was the only good thing Ramsey ever did.
So true
Theon is a victim. A victim of his own actions, but still a victim
I don't know if you realize this; but the Starks didn't consider Theon as a Stark or family either. Robb was the only one he was close with. Theon didn’t deserve what Ramsay what Ramsay did to him. And Ramsay would have done the same to the Stark children if Theon didn’t run them off.
@@augustusfreeman4032 yes, he did you sacked Riverdale he killed two innocent children. He killed the mason He betrayed the people that took care of him. He deserved every inch of what he got.
@@nope3249 Stop pretending that you care about the Miller's boys dude. You're just upset that Theon picked his family over his captors, Theon's crimes were against the Miller's children, he owed the Starks absolutely nothing.
Atleast in retrospect, my biggest thought when re-reading Theon is the missed opportunity. He gets home to the islands and is mistreated by his real family, so he gets desperate and bold, and tries to prove himself in war. Ironically it turns out the Ironborn who are more similar in disposition to Theon are more common than he ever thought. House Blacktyde wants nothing to do with war, and neither did the Botleys until the coup, if Theon had just stayed at Pyke and got in good with some of the Ironborn houses, it might have taken a few years, but I think Theon could have eventually actually taken over the islands! and now with him being excluded from the Kingsmoot, he is the only one who can defeat and invalidate Euron!
I wouldn't call theon's story two dimensional in the show. In some ways there is more complexity by having him see the starks as family beyond just robb
He’s a Gollum-like figure for the ASOIAF mythos
i like your style, hope to see this channel grow
Its kind of shocking that George said he couldnt understand why Theon became a favorite character for so many. Of course he is just a terrible human being but what George puts him through in Dance makes him so much more compelling. I cant wait to see what happens to him in Winds, especially with that sample chapter and Bran/Bloodraven communicating through the ravens to go to that weirwood tree.
He murdered an entire family: father, mother and two adolscent children - for no reason but to cover up his own fuck-up. "What George puts him through" is called commeupance.
@@Alknix I'm not sure what your point is, we all know he is a POS. I wasn't excusing any of the awful things he has done. In interviews George has said that it surprised him to learn that Theon was the favorite of so many readers. Those chapters in Dance made his character so much more compelling. It's okay to have a favorite character that is a terrible person. For instance my favorite character is probably Jamie and he tried to murder a child to cover up his incestuous relationship with his sister. Yes he isn't a good person but that doesn't change the fact that he is a compelling character.
@@dookieshoe2905 Well, I'm with George here. Jaime may have started as a douchebag, but he got much better in later books, and he didn't do any really stupid shit aside from killing Ned's guards, and even that was in retaliation for the assault on his brother. But Theon? Theon sucks! He's a laughing stock, and a punching bag, and it's always his own fault. He disrespects his peers, he's a sleezebag, he's self-absorbed, ignorant, shortsighted, arrogant. He's pretty much the same as Joffrey. What exactly makes him compelling in "Dance"? Being tortured? So was Vargo Hoat. And afterwards Theon just sulks in the corner and needs Bran to mess with his brain until he wakes the hell up and does a single noble thing.
@@Alknix No Jaime's a far worse person than Theon. Theon, have actually shown regret for his actions, Jaime however has not.
@@dookieshoe2905 Jaime, Sandor and Tywin are all fan favourite characters, and they're ten times worse people than Theon. And no Theon is not a fan favourite.
Amazing video, keep doing what you’re doing!
Thank you and I intend to HAHAH!
WTF THE INTERMISSION HAD FLYING WHALES!!!
8:38 Didn't expect to hear Gojira in a video about ASOIF but won"t complain 🐳
You can be both.
Exactly!
WHY IS THE AUDIO IN THE RIGHT EAR!!!
Idk but I went off in this essay
yet another banger!
Thanks Sammy
np, keep up the good work@@thescrewsareneatlyfastened
loved this, will subscribe, but why not keep going thru the rest of his story to-date? seems weird to say this is where his arc ended.
I understand, and it’s because my last video covered the Reek arc. Its worth taking a look!! Thanks for the support
Great content. Keep dropping
Idk whether I feel for him or am disgusted by him and I think that is the point.
He is both.
how does your mic quality get WORSE over time?
Whats the song at the end ?
@@arhaan8170 here’s the link! on.soundcloud.com/AmJtRjpM4Pkuymh46
@@thescrewsareneatlyfastened thank you, fantastic video btw really liked it!!
he's both
the iron born suck
Video wasn't bad but.... Talking in fourth person is gross.
What are you trying to tell me? You're hinting at something.
It may well deserve a rewatch