Solutions For Effective Cast Bullet Powder Coating
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- Опубліковано 4 жов 2015
- Powder coating cast bullets is not a haphazard endeavor. There are certain objectives to be accomplished. 1) bonded powder coating 2) adequate coverage 3) proper thickness 4) uniformity. And there are problems at every turn. So here are some considerations for gaining effectiveness...
The shake and bake method works well for small calibers like 9MM, however I have been casting .600 grain hollow points for my .458 SOCOM and the powder sticks very little and takes a long time to powder coat. I found my solution using a aerosol sprayer and mixing acetone with powder coat to creat a liquid paint. I simply place the bullets on a mesh basket I bent to have pyramids then spray the coat on, let the acetone flash off then bake them as you would normally. The end result is just awesome.
A1
Once again...saved me days of trial and error. Thank you sir.
I just keep coming back and watch your videos for that I just want to salute you, sir
Hey FC45LC, thanks for another great video, the best part of it all is you get a great plinking/practice bullet virtually for free, other than a little time and the cost of the powder coat, the gas to make ingots and electricity for casting bullets isn't that much, a big thank you for sharing your experience and knowledge.
I'm still picking them out one at a time with hemostats.
I introduced one of our local hobbyshop proprietors to powdercoating...who also happens to be a fine competitive shooter and sells all manner of reloading supplies at his store. He LOVES ot and has become a PC promoter. He's also been (in turn) trying to get ME to do the vibratory tumbler method. I'm almost persuaded....
Thanks for posting this Cookie!
+goldwingnut1954 - Always great getting comments from the goldwingnut1954... the vibratory tumbler method is more reliable, but if your hand tumble is working, it certainly is faster. Thing about the vibratory is that you just run it and do something else. Hand tumbling eliminates the need for the machine. There's always a give and take... Good PCing to ya, -- FC
FC, I just found your videos a few days ago and I'd like to tell you how much I really appreciate and enjoy them.
I too enjoy all aspects of shooting including casting, reloading and finding good books to read.
Thank you for all the effort you put into these videos.
Best Wishes. Lamar.
+Lamar Doolittle -- Sorry late on this reply - Google has been missing some comments to my inbox and also losing some replies recently. Thanks for your comments and for taking the time to post... Best Regards to ya, FC
This is the one constant with hand loading or reloading our own ammo. The strive for perfection by the most efficient means possible. Thumbs up to the hand loader that finally put the static cling from dry tumbling to good use. Maybe the ultimate answer will be a cost effective way to copper plate cast bullets at home.
+ecleveland1 - AHA!! You blew the whistle on this one - I use the static cling sheets to wipe out the vibrate tumbler before charging for powder coating - don't know if it helps or not - probably not, because if only tumble for 20 minutes - no even coating is happening - takes 1 1/2 to 2 hours to get the powder to really adhere to the bullets. But that is working uniformly - that's what we want - not if, but yes... I'm still going to be using my 45/45/10 though. Let's see how well these PC bullets split playing cards - FC
+ideamachineim - whatever the way it works, that dry tumbler does get the powder to stick on the bullets - we are "in business" -- FC
Speaking of hooter's, who doesn't like a nice set of hooter's?at any rate Love the video!,I want to powder coat as soon as I make some ingot's with the 120 -130 lb's of range lead I have,the 12 gauge turned out perfect,thank's to your instruction's...you are the bomb* ,thank you for the info,knowledge and the entertainment!!!...
Today I did my first powder coating of some 390 gr 45/70 bullets using your method and they turned out wonderfully. I chose gray PC coating from Emerald coatings rather than Harbour freight as they are not in Canada. This is high quality coatings @ 11.00 per pound Can Dollars which is 9.00 Us Dollars. The gray came out better than I thought and I did size them after coating , which where .460 prior to sizing and .458 after with no makings or loss of the PC coating on any surface. Will load later and shoot in my Winchester 1885. I had to use plastic beads instead of BB"s and they worked so I think one could add any round small bead of any material and still get good results. I did see one fellow using a warmed bullet prior to tumbling with the PC powder for better adhesion , I will try that next. At the end of the day its accuracy which counts so the proof will be in the shooting. So 45LC keep up the videos and maybe try the warmed bullet coating in a video and see if you get the same results. thx again
+Bruce D -- I already tried the heat trick when I ran into the "no powder stick" problem - the heat did nothing to help. If your beads are the right kind of plastic, you are developing the charge to get powder adhesion. I've found the vibrating tumbler to be a no bother reliable method of getting good powder coating to the bullets - easy, clean and can do 250-300 at a time.... Good powder coatin' to ya, FC
I finally casted and powder coated some bullets. Now i am going back and doing more research to fix some mistakes. :-)
The Reloader Dude - Congrats on PCing some bullets - when you've done your homework, you will be finding out what works best for you... Like competitive shooting, your proficiency did not come by osmosis, but by putting in the time and effort...PC bullets will be worth the effort. Plus, we can then get Thorsaxe777 to get on the PC train - or not!!... Best to ya, FC
I just watched the guy on “loadingroom” powder coating. He did the same as you and his powder stuck on great
Once again, a great video! Thank you
+Gage Clements -- And thank you for taking the time to post... Have a great day, FC
awesome display of awesomeness
+Matt Lord -- Your enthusiastic comment is greatly appreciated...and UA-camLand is blessed by viewers such as you. Have a very Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays... FC
Great Video - Thanks Again.
that crimson is awesome
I love your gun related videos.
+S Papi -- And your gracious comment is much appreciated... Have a great day.... FC
So how do you do a light coat vs heavy coat? tumble less?
Great Vidja! My internet has been spotty the last few days, so I just now got to actually make it play. I have been meaning to make almost exactly this video for a while, but no need now!
+GunFun ZS - tumbling in the vibratory tumber is a brilliant solution - nothing like seeing those coated bullets - if the details of the casting are still discerned on the coated bullets, we are truly in business for the heat treatment on onward to fine PC bullets...Thanks again for your help... -- FC
FortuneCookie45LC I can't claim to be the originator of that idea though. As near as I can tell a guy who uses the handle DolomiteSupafly might be the first.
+GunFun ZS - Doesn't matter - important thing is that you posted the technique out there on UA-cam and if it wasn't for you, I'd still be hand tumbling or giving up completely on PC. Have a great day -- FC
Would you be interested in borrowing a mold since I didn't have the hard alloy bullets to send you? It is flat nosed for 30-30. .312-~190grn. flat base Powder coats well,and easily sizes to a very consistent .309" with my lee push die. I could send the die too.
+GunFun ZS -Thanks GunFun, but I would never advise loaning out a favored mold to another caster so I sure would not borrow one myself...The one you loan out is going to be the one you need for casting and you won't have it when you need it. Lee molds are such that if you recommend that bullet, I'd just go out and buy one myself $20 is well in the "give it a try" zone. As you know, I already have the 170 grainer. And I still have to PC those TL 452 200 SWCs yet as well as cast and PC my new TL 452 230 TC mold plus range shoot the PC rounds. Any 30/30 projects would have to be put in the que...Thanks for the offer though... I've loaned out lots of books to friends and don't get them back for years (I have forgotten who had borrowed them by the time I missed having them). It's all good though... Best to ya -- FC
I'm glad to see you're no longer stacking the bullets one at a time. Also, I agree A thin coating works best. Could I offer one more suggestion? Get some white PC and some black PC and mix them 50/50. and powder coat your bullets. I have no idea why but it applies the best possible coverage. Better than white. Better than black. And better than just gray.
+Tonsofgunsoffun - sounds like an interesting mix... gets gray as I believe. Plus it is more traditional color for bullets than all the reds and blues out there... Have a great day -- FC
I spoke with Eastwood Hotcoat Customer Service about hand tumbling 'shake & bake' cast bullets, does color make a difference. The Eastman Rep, admitting he has no experience powder coating bullets said "all colors should perform the same". I ordered the Eastwood Jet Black # 16307LB. As the red powder in this video, the Jet Black powder would not stick while hand tumbling bullets. I then called POWDER-BY-THE-POUND Customer Service asking the same question. Their rep said there is a big difference between types of powders when coating bullets. She was very informative telling me that the polyester based powders work well. Any of their RAL powders should perform well coating bullets. I then ordered 4 colors from Powder by the Pound. RAL 5012 Ford Light Blue SK5721, RAL 5011 Steel Blue SK16741 {a very dark blue], Mirror Green SK4311 and Mirror Red SK39412. All four powders performed well sticking to cast bullets using the hand tumble 'shake & bake' method. All four colors baked beautifully, nice even coating, gloss finish. I strongly recommend beginners and seasoned powder coaters to seriously consider the advice of Powder by the Pound Customers Service. Excellent customer service !
just subscribed. You make very informative videos. thanks
Adam Crater - Thank you for your kind comment...And thanks for joining us on the Hot Lead Zone Express - we're going to a lot of places shooting and reloading...Hope you really enjoy the ride... plus feel free to comment and question at any time... Best Regards, FC
thanks for the video, you did a great job selling me on the importance of a thin powder coat, i was hoping you would go into HOW to get the thin coat vs the thick coat.
Great info.
+gman77gas -- Thanks, Gary - it's good to have alternatives as well as different ways to go for our shooting. I'll still be doing the traditional lubing, but PC has it's viability. Those winters in the North Country will be getting bleak... -- FC
do you include the paint weight for the total grains for powder load?
Thanks FC45LC, I do have a question. In your video you demonstrated using a tumbler for 2 hrs to get a thick coating, then you spoke about thin coating. Is your method to get a thin coating to just tumble for less time? Like 1 hour instead of 2? Thanks again.
They couldn't be more perfect for cowbow action !
+Nick Musuraca - Yes that!! at .358-.359" they are indeed perfect for CAS -- Have a great day - FC
+Nick J -- For CAS, Lee has done you two better - the 358 105 SWC and the 356 95 RNFP give you lighter bullets with the same powder charges as you would use for 124 grainers for less recoil shooting. Plus you could even cut the powder charge a bit for even lower recoil for fast recovery on those cowboy targets. And the smaller 95 grainer bullet would take PC very well. Other PCers report good results with the 105 as well. Lee makes both bullets in the 6 cav as they know how cowboy shooters are - they need lots of bullets... Best to ya, FC
Another option fishermen use to fine powder coat lead fishing weights is a fluidic bed. It uses an air pimp forcing air through paper inside a PVC pipe to give a very very thin consistent powder coat.
More great info. Thanks How long go you let them sit to air cool before separating?
treesablowin - Great question, Don - If you do it too soon, you will get a feel that the action of the rubbing is still a bit mushy, just wait another minute. If you do it too soon, the PC is still good, just not as glossy. A good test is to pick up a small clump of bullets and separate them, if they separate clean and glossy, then do 'em all. If you wait too long, you will have work to do separating them - not advised. Best to ya... FC
Thanks for video-
I still try to separate them rather than basket break them apart, I get much better uniformity. I use crumpled non stick foil to spread them out on I don't take the time to stand them on end, its a waste of time but I never let them touch.... And yes thin is best... Great vids...
+d Klawbohr - I'm getting your drift, as when I use the basket, there are some small areas where the basket steel does cause imperfections on the PC bullets - If you check the video closely, you will see those. Probably won't affect the shooting of the bullets, but certainly if the bullets are kept separate, that won't be a problem. We'll see how these shoot... Best Regards -- FC
Great tips. Thank you!
FC45LC.. You have been putting out some interesting videos on powder coating cast bullets. The surest way I know of to powder coat bullets and get them right the 1st time is by the electrostatic method. You may have to size them, but as an extra step it is way simpler than having to do multiple coatings. Just MHO..
Thanks for the video..
Shad
+shadowcastre - Always great to hear from the shadowcastre. You have hit on an important item not brought out in the video - we do not want to do multiple coats of PC. One thin uniform coating is the best. And if no sizing is required, all the better. If we have to size our PC bullets, then the question is raised on the thickness over the nose and whether that is uniform or not within the single bullet as well as bullet to bullet. If 2 or 3 coats are required for reasons of "nice coating", then the work and time intensive factors of PC become negatives. The 45/45/10 system is looking better all the time... Best to ya -- FC
That's the benefit of using the ES method.. An even single coating
Shad
+shadowcastre - thanks for the vote on ES... Best Regards to ya - FC
14.99 from harbor freight you can get a spare bowl for your tumbler. It might need a larger hole drilled or some modification but mine works great with my Lyman Pro 2500.
+John Cunnington -- That's really an interesting mod you did there - will have to check that out next trip to HF... Have a great day, FC
I use the black powder exclusive now. I get mine from powder by the pound (I think its called the Wet Black). I also use my tumbler but I only need to do it for about 10 min and I also found to much powder does not help. If I have one that has a glob I just tap the forceps against the tumbler and the extra powder falls off the bullet. I tried putting it on the screen and cooking them like that but I had a lot stuck together and they looked nasty where they touched anything (screen or another bullet).
I then saw a You Tube video where a guy wrapped a wood block with NON STICK foil (I had never seen that int he store before) then yet take the few min it takes to pick up each bullet with forceps and place on the foil lined wood block. The coating runs a little down the bullet to fill in any bare spots and 20 min later they are just beautiful and perfect. No globs totally even and just beautiful. I can cook about 50 at a time.
It only takes 2 or 3 min to place them on the block and they fall off after then have cooled. I find it very enjoyable.
I reload mostly hand gun ammo and do most of my shooting from inside my pole barn (I can recover my brass that way). I have tried shooting unloaded cast bullets, the cloud of smoke is not something I want.
+Delbert McCord - You are another of the growing numbers of happy powder coaters... Thanks for sharing your findings and experiences... Continued success to you, FC
I just got my 1st 9mm this year and I have begun saving and collecting brass for reloading purposes. My father has everything for reloading hunting calibers. I was just going to purchase projectiles but considering molding from lead.
My question is what's the benefit of powder coating the projectiles? Is this only for hardball/target ammo or can you also reload hollow points this way?
Thanks for the informative video. Content like this makes UA-cam great.
Chris Cogsdil - Any clean oil free cast bullet can be powder coated. And powder coated cast bullets can use softer lead without leading and the softer lead hollow points will expand better than a harder bullet. Best to ya, FC
I had problems getting it to stick using my tumbler. I found that a couple of small chunks of styrofoam made all the difference. It's a lot easier to pick out when your done.
Roger Lewis - Interesting way to get static charges built up - you might be onto something here. Sounds like it works better than using the plastic BBs... Thanks for the tip... Best to ya, FC
FortuneCookie45LC, in your video you mention you didn't have to size the PC bullets @ .358? How far to you seat them? I tried shooting bullets @ .358 with OAL 1.10 on my HK USP 9mm compact slug barrel @ .355 and bullets were keyholding and not being accurate. Please give feedbacks!
Fortune Cookie I just found out the poly coating I have been using is just epoxy paint. I will be trying to buy epoxy paint and continuing poly coating. It goes on thin requires about 3 coats however I still shake them in a Tupperware for about 3 minutes for each application then let them dry. I have also found a way to get them not to stick that is to continue shaking the Tupperware for an additional 2 minutes or so or shake let them sit for a minute them shake again basically getting them dry then dumping them out. I get 3 coats on the bullets then fire them in the oven, I use acetone to thin the mixture in the Tupperware so applying is easy and goes on consistent every time, but the best thing is epoxy paint which can be heated or baked on can be found for about $60 for 2 gallons and their hardeners. which is allot cheaper than the poly $40 a quart. Also colors with a gloss work better as the finish acts as a lube in the feed ramps.
+MadSativa - Sounds good - I'm sure they do very well for you. These systems are all basically paints that are heat cured. And they are certainly tough. I still think that the technology on these will continue to improve until we have the perfect coating for our bullets... Good shootin' to ya... - FC
+MadSativa I just use acrylic paint. Bake once and throw in water to quench to get super hard bullets. I did go for epoxy paint initially under the suggestion of weildladertv, but really all you need is a barrier between the barrel and the lead. Acrylic paint in my area is cheaper than epoxy so I use that.
+Dave Smith - I tried the non-bake epoxy and it was a mess to do. No way would I do that as a matter of course. Doing the powder coat is actually easy to do and really no mess if care is used. Baking the bullets was not desired on my part, but once a caster tries it, it's really not problematic. And we do wind up with harder bullets - a side benefit that is not often mentioned. Best Regards, and Happy Holidays to ya, FC
+Dave Smith great tip thanks dave!
+josh frazier I am actually strictly powder coating now. it is fast cheaper and easier than any epoxy coating. I use harbor freight 2-$4 powder and paint or shake them and bake them 2 times as I separate the stuck ones when still hot with gloves on and they leave marks I ally a second coat and refire them which takes care of the nicks or uncoated areas of bullets. I can do about 1k in a hour and 20 mins because im using a tiny oven and baking about 300 at a time for 15 min then 20 min on a final bake with the process constantly going.
All of that, and you didn't say how to get the thin coating on the bullets.? You literally told us how not to do it.. I think you need a part 2
My powder coated bullets are still leading my forcing cone.what can I add to make my lead harder .and where can I get it .thanks
Could you use what they use to Teflon coat a skillet.
It handles heat?
Or can you use Teflon fingernail polish?
Is there another way to get my powder to stick using the hand tumbling method? I don't have a tumbler and I use a mason jar with either vinegar dawn dish soap and salt with hot hot water and shaking my brass and letting it set for 10 to 15 minutes and it comes out new...but I can't seem to get my powder to stick and ive tried just putting them in and shaking and tumbling by hand for several minutes, I've also tried preheating before powdercoating like Elvis Ammo suggested and that made it a tiny bit better but not like other people I see in their videos such as yours. So I figured you'd have some suggestions or maybe another reloader could give me some tips. Not sure if it matters but I'm trying to coat .45acp 200grain semi wad cutters and 230grain round ball ammo, also 150 and 170grain 30-30 Winchester flat nose bullets if theres something special I need to do please someone let me know how to get it to stick better while hand tumbli! I'd greatly appreciate it because lubing doesn't appeal to me and I been shooting some leopard looking 45's
as soon as I get a wet tumbler I'll have to try this
+Mr. Tolly (AKA: fatmantolly) -- It is not too late for any reloader to go with wet tumbling - it is a revelation in safety and goodness of result...and the perfect use of vibratory tumblers is for powder coating.... Best to ya... FC
Fortune Cookie - do you now powder coat most of your cast bullet? Second question - can I change powder from Bulleye to a hotter powder with the powder coated bullets?
There are several instances where your video appears to skip steps, or leave out bits of necessary information. Examples include, when breaking apart the basket coated method, were the bullets hot out of the oven, still warm, or stone cold? When the powder didn't stick, had the bullets been cleaned beforehand? Were they cold? With your thick coat-thin coat issue, how was the powder shake-off process changed? Ironically, I tried your standing the bullets on a tray method yesterday, setting them on parchment and was delighted with the result.
Fortune Cookie I watch your videos all the time. My question is I have a large supply of wheel weights that I sort by stick on and clip weights. Making shot gun slugs with the stick on weight will they be soft enough not to damage barrel.
Robert Brummett -Your stick on wheel weights are mighty fine for shotgun slugs - Good sluggin' to ya...!! FC
Hey FortuneCookie45LC, I can't seem to find info on what size I need to size my PC bullets. Should I size them .001" larger than my bore like cast/lubed? Or should they be the same size as the bore? Thanks for the helpful videos...
Eric
+Mick9mm -- Size considerations are just like any cast bullet - .001 - .002 larger than groove diameter and .001-.002 larger than cylinder throats on revolvers. Good shootin' to ya, Erick - FC Steve
So how do you go about getting the thin coating vs the thicker? Just using the vibratory tumbler and basket method?
1994LT1Camaro - Secret is to pour the tumbled coated bullets into the wire basket Then all the loose and excessive powder is shaken off with vertical shaking until the coating looks thin and no clumps are present anywhere. The detail of the cast bullets should be readily evident through the powder coating. Then into the oven it goes... Best Regards, FC
Do you need to lube powdercoated bullets or do you treat them like jacketed bullets? (I'm loading 7.7×85 Japanese, 7.62×54R, 8mm Mauser, 9mm Luger and .223 Rem)
Logan Barnette - Our PC bullets are wonderful for handgun and reduced power rifle. But that's where it really ends. I showed my powder coated 30 cal bullets to a benchrester and he almost retched. Those boys and girls shoot only the best bullets they can buy (not talking about the cast bullet benchresters now). You won't see any 100+ yard groups posted on YT fired with PC bullets. Reason is that powder coating prevents leading, but the bullet still has to be able to hold the rifling, the PC will not turn the cast bullet into a jacketed bullet. If the bullet strips off the rifling, the PC will do nothing to make the bullet accurate. Groups shot at 100+ yards with rifle PC are not presentable. The militaries of the world could not switch to jacketed bullets fast enough with the coming of smokeless powder. Today, the militaries of the world are not interested in powder coated bullets. Best to ya, FC Steve
Seems like a lot more time, effort, electricity, and mess than it is really worth. I enjoy watching you go through the process, and learning from it though. I'll stick to the old school ways myself. I also don't like my ammo looking like crayons or lipstick. Each unto his own though. I'm all about peoples' right to make their own choices. Have a good one, FC. I'll see you on the next one, as always!
+JunkfoodZombie - Always great to hear from the JunkfoodZombie!! There is a lot to be said for our hard cast bullets just the way they are - lube 'em with 45/45/10 fast, cheap and easy, load 'em and shoot 'em...We do need to give PC a chance as there is a lot of interest there, but the old system is still there waiting patiently to say "I told you so"... Best to ya -- FC
+JunkfoodZombie -- Did Google lose my reply to you? Oh well, let's reply again - I've found the PC to be a bit less accurate than the good old 45/45/10. But Mark (another shooter at the range) has said his PC bullets shoot a bit more accurate than the 45/45/10 - other way around. So I asked him to shoot some groups for me - sure enough, the PC bullets shot better for him in my gun, my ammo - interesting... when I shot that gun, it did the reverse - so it's an individual thing on accuracy - Have a great day, FC
FortuneCookie45LC
I notice that different guns (even the same model) may like different loads from one another. This is bad because you have to find out what works in your gun, and it is good because you get to find out what works in your gun, if that makes sense to you. Sometimes, the fun is in the discovery. Have a good one!
+JunkfoodZombie -- Sounds good, very good...and you have a great day also, FC
question,,,,, i just ordered 1000 rds 9mm rn,,,,i dont cast my own,,,, can i powder coat them???, thanks
I'm so HAPPY that I vibrated ( 20 minutes ) mine with a hole Jar of black soft BB'S , I thought I had to give a thick coating , they came out like your last run !! so I don't haft to re coat ( 1500 ) =) THANK YOU now I can finish the 2000 more to go ! I tried pan lubing and WHAT A MESS ! had to take all the dies and clean them NO FUN !! I have 8000 empty cases to go 9mm . from 16 cents to 6 cents a round !!!!!
Hey there 45lc, I have been power coating for a couple of years now. I have purchased a powder coat sprayer from harbor freight to apply the powder coat. My question is, how accurate are they. I have found that most are accurate, but at least 1 -2 out of 10 will be off target by 5in at 10yrs. Have you had accuracy issues?
What about adding atomized copper to a hardcast alloy while casting the bullet and also after molding the bullet immediately putting it into an oil quench? To increase the hardness and decrease fouling so you don't need to powder coat.
Alex xeon - When I first started casting bullets, I wanted real hard bullets believing that the harder the bullet was the less leading I would get. I quickly discovered that I was wasting expensive tin and antimony. Bullets too hard can lead the barrel if shot at inappropriate velocities. I just purchased some Copper Hard Alloy from RotoMetals, but the small amount of copper contained really does not add to the goodness of our bullet composition. It's the antimony and tin that are the valued alloy components. I have heard of oil quenching cast bullets, but only once and it is not an often recommended way of quenching bullets - Lee does state that "...all cast bullets need to be lubricated." That means we either lube with traditional lube in grooves, to tumble lubing in liquid alox or 45/45/10, to gas checking and lube, to copper plating, or metal jacketing or powder coating. These are all options for us in our bullets - good to have choices. Shooting plain lead without any lube is an invitation to severe leading no matter how hard the bullets are. However, we do need to bear in mind that there was one test long ago (I didn't save the article since I did not know I'd be doing future work on UA-cam - What's UA-cam?) where properly fitted bullets were shot without lube and no leading occurred (limited number of shots though in limited test). I'm certain that we would not get away with that. As for Hardness Optimization, for our cast bullets, that is in play. When we powder coat our bullets, we gain much advantage in protection from leading making hardness much less an issue (within reason, of course) Best to ya, FC
If you are using powder coat powder, for your own health, be sure to get the MSDS from the powder company web sight for that particular powder and read the section on required PPE and the chronic exposure affects on lungs, skin and organs .............. different colors contain different materials and have different MSDS.
I powder coated about 150 230gr 300 black out bullets and toasted em they weren't complete covered so they don't meet my satisfaction can i repowder coat them do you think I put them in for about 2hrs and I have got about the same number of 45acp tumbling and checked on them and there pretty covered like in the video only this time I had less powder coat in the bowl with them I had 2lbs of coat before I prolly only had 1 or 1.5lbs this time
What kind of temperatures can we expect between the power coated lead bullet and the steel barrel ?
Buck Barnes - That's a difficult question - Yes, there is heat and pressure. But how does the heat affect the bullet? There were studies done whereby pure lead bullets sized properly to the barrel shot with no leading. And studies done to show that cardboard wads put under the base of handgun bullets were recovered after firing in excellent condition - so much for the bullet base melting theory or the high pressure on the base theory. Also, as for gases going by the bullet, or bullet friction to the barrel - you have seen for yourself some recovered cast bullets with the lube still in the grooves as if no consumption of lube occurred. Jets of high vel gases are very cutting on steel though part of the (principle of armor defeating by shaped charges) - that's why our rifle barrels in 220 Swift et al erode to the point of uselessness after 1000-1500 rounds. And there is definitely heat - it may be the heat of the burn after the gas cutting that erodes our barrels. Can happen in handguns also, but most of our calibers are not that intense. Can't answer the exact temp caused by everything when a bullet goes down the barrel...Best to ya, FC
quick question, do you find it difficult to clean the tumbler after using it for PC? It seems like a brilliant/easy method to get the bullets coated, I'm just worried my tumbler would start producing red tinted brass. Would it be more beneficial to just buy an old one and devote it strictly to PC? Keep up the great videos!
+Lunchbox The Magnificent - That is the finest way to do it - a designated vibratory tumbler for PC - for me, easy as I've switched to wet tumbling my brass anyway...now the only problem is if I switch PC colors... Best Regards to ya, FC
.
What about different gun powder reactions with the various blends of powder coat products.
I've decided to just paste wax all my powder coated bullets and or the 45/45/10 to get the best of both worlds.
What happens when you go to the range and pick up powder coated lead how do you recast these bullets
just like an other range scrap
I've noticed that any method I try to get the powder to stick to the bullets, it doesn't build up any static electricity to stick to the bullets. I've tried the cool whip containers, tupperware and tumbler, airsoft BB's, and so far, no luck. It could be that it might be too humid outside during the summer that it isn't building up static electricity. Any advice on this?
Sakorey Srongprapa - I have found that my vibe tumbler has not failed yet in summer or winter. However, your conditions may be even more humid and yes, that is problematic. You might give the elvis ammo 4 / 140 system a try - heat the dry cast bullets at 140 degrees for 4 minutes and immediately tumble them in your powder. If that works, you are in business, If not, you might have to powder coat only during certain times of the year and do enough for the season of unrest. And if that doesn't work, you might have to go traditional and tumble lube with such as 45/45/10 system (I have videos up on that also). A final solution would be to buy bullets already powder coated - there are a number of commercial bullet makers offering PC bullets now - funny that the major companies continue to ignore powder coating bullets... But give them time - we'll break down the barriers yet... Best Regards, FC
Thanks for the in-depth information. I am in Australia and struggling with exactly this. My vibratory tumbler is not giving me any success (the same as Sakorey Srongprapa). Having said that, it is approximately 100°F and 70% humidity, so I will have to try again in different conditions.
Absolutely brilliant videos though - thank you!
Does lead hardness matter as much, when you coat them?
sir, do you resize the tumble lube bullets after you powder coat them, or are they good to go?
+cornfed4780 -- Thanks for your question. Depends on the diameter of the final PC bullets - if these are for 9mm, they are .356 before PC. Great for 9mm as is. But after PC, they mike .358" That's still good for 9mm as .358s will shoot fine. However, at .358, they are also now perfect for 38 Spl and 357 Mag... so these bullets can be used in all three. Note that these were some of my early PC efforts...my PC bullets today even look better since I didn't do the coatings as thick... Best to ya, FC
Did HF Red in HF 5 lb vibrator tumbler- hardly any sticking to 5% tin rifle bullets. Not sure if HF tub is anti- static or other issue. Any others using HF tumbler w/ success. My tub is grey / blue. Heated "dusted" bullets and looked at results under a stereo microscope- not fully coated.
+Will Roberts -- Type of plastic does make a difference to static charges. However, my hand tumbling container worked 3 times and then the same container would not get the powder to coat onto the bullets. Heating the bullets did not help the powder to stick. If we don't get any barrel leading, the PC is doing the job. And if we flatten a PC bullet and the PC does not flake off, then the PC is well bonded to the bullet. Have a great day, FC
FC45 man what a cool video I've only shot a few how to go to bullets and I got to say the accuracy was just as good if not maybe a little better. I've only shot maybe 200 so maybe I need to get some oranges shoot them. Great video as always you always cover all the points FC45.Great points made do we cast bullets for the art or do we cast bullets for the Art of feeding or shooting habit?
+Chad Hedges - The great thing is we can do what we want to do...Me, I want what shoots well and that means safe, reliable, accurate and economical ammo. There's always been room for pretty ammo, though - since pretty ammo also works better. In the case of PC, pretty also means no leading, low smoke and no lead exposure. That's the reason I'm exploring this PC business...Have a great day - FC
FC man your ammo looks awesome all the time that powder coating looks great I cassette I just need to shoot some more powder coated bullets. Keep up the great videos that we love watch them have a great day.
+Chad Hedges - And a great day to you also, friend Chad!! Appreciate your comments.... -- FC
I want to know why? I just size & lube my bullets as they come from the mold. My 50 yard loads will shoot within 3” from a bench. Seems like a lot of work for little gain.
Thanks! Great video. But in any case, it is better to drive all the bullets through the sizer after coating
Creat channel how many 9mm or 38s can you powder coat from a pound of powder coating?
I need some advice. Would like a private and if possible, a phone call. Podwer coating 1st time and bullets melted. Toaster oven 400 degrees@ 20 minutes. Need help.
How do you best achieve a thin powder coat? Using the wet method?
Hi FortuneCookie, can you tell me what kind powder do I need for powder coating bullets? I don't see any powder paint company advertising for bullet coating, will any ordinary powder coat powders work?
What happens when you melt powder coated bullets to extract the lead for re-casting?
Does the powder coat cover your melting pot?
Good question. My guess is it would float to the top...
Myles Nicholas - Thanks for the good question, and easy to answer since I've done that on more than one occasion - The PC coating just comes off like a tough flexible film and floats to be skimmed off with the rest of the dross - no combustion, no melting or smoke from the PC... Best to ya, FC
rogue - That PC is tough - floats on the surface like a flexible film - no melting or burning or smoking from the PC...just any caster can simply skim it off...Best Regards, FC
It would probably come out as scum on surface
Is the powder coated bullets perform better, than the moly coated ones?
+pelnalufa - Great question - moly bullets were / are fantastic - they shoot accurately and the moly coatings are very uniform and consistent. Low smoke and clean shooting bullets. You needed a very sharp knife to cut into that moly coating. I still have 6K of the 147 9mms left and a couple thousand of each of the others 45 SWC, 45 :RN, 38 158 SWCs and 158 RNs. All the steel shooters loved the moly bullets Don't know why they fell out of favor. The moly did not hurt any barrels amongst the steel shooters as far as reports go... Best Regards --FC
Mr FC.45 I have tried harbor freight black powder coat, but I can’t get it to stick even in the tumbler !
MegaRiffraff - The HF red is the most reliable of the HF powders, with HF yellow being OK. The other HF colors are regrettable. There are so many good Eastwood powders that any of the blues or grays or reds or greens are all good. Best to ya, FC Steve
What kind of powder do you use? I'm going to try it out for my .475 Linebaugh and maybe my 6.5x55 Swedish too.
+Sixgunning.com - I'm using the Harbor Freight PC - yes, I know, it's the cheap stuff, but why not? It's working well and it will for your guns also. I might go with higher quality PC at some point, but I'm getting good results with the HF red. A good tip is to coat the bullets just thick enough to see coverage yet the details of the bullet casting is still there... thin coatings are better than thick...Your Swedish is a common milsurp, but that Linebaugh of yours is definitely in the custom hand cannon behemoth category...More power to ya..!! FC
I'm all about saving money as long as it works! Thanks so much. Your channel is the best.
Noticed today at Cabalas that CCI has 22lr coated in polymer, red, white and blue. They claim less leading.
Mark Janness - Perfect for the 4th of July..!! More coated bullets no doubt will be on the way.... Best to ya, FC Steve
If only a guy had the time to devote. I enjoy firearms and shooting along with casting and reloading. Problem is finding the time to devote to the hobby
You hit the nail on the head 100%
You gotta do a couple thousand of em and get er done. Just make sure you get it right.
I've been trying everything under the sun to get my gun to shoot lead bullets without fouling the bore at velocity over 900 fps from my revolver.
I've had the cyl throats reamed and firelapped the bore ... Whatever ... Maybe I'll just shoot low velocity with my lead bullets, but I was hoping for better.
I'm burned out on spending my time cleaning lead fouled bores, though.
How fragile is the powder coat on the bullet before it is baked? Is it easy to rub off if tossed around? I was gonna buy a Frankford arsenal wet/dry media separator to dispel the excess powder coat once it's done in the tumbler.
James H - I've dropped coated bullets and they roll on the floor, but still covered. The media separator is probably too violent, plus these are not designed to tumble the weight of cast bullets. But more simply, the rotary media separators are not needed as just shaking in a basket dispels the excess powder nicely. If we want a thinner coating, we just shake a little longer. I have not considered using the media separators as shaking is so effective and gives us all the control we need. Good PC to ya, FC Steve
FortuneCookie45LC thanks! Saved me money 👍🏻
i used your method mix with some others, the uneveness is not a problem for me to get 3shots onedot (flower) zeroing at 25m. good enough for ipsc/uspsa shootings
museves - Thanks for posting your findings...thin coatings have been found to be best because the coating winds up more uniform. Congratulations on making that fine ammo.... FC
Does the power coat build up in the barrel and other parts of the weapon
+sam long nope, infact there is less residue than traditional or copper
I also tumble mine 3-4 times and don't have any of these issues. Once I am done I have a size of .362 and uniform with all of my Lee 124 rn mold and Lee 125 358 mold.
+Josh Starr - I'm thinking that our .360-.362" bullets might work out fine loaded and crimped with the Lee Factory Crimp Die. We might be able to avoid sizing those yet... Best to ya, -- FC
I am wondering if powder coating works on a single lube groove 200gn swc 45 acp???
Mike Q - AHA!! The H & G 68 or variant of...!! Yes, you can powder coat for effect (that's a variant for the term Fire for effect!! It means deliver all the ordinance you got...) Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to ya..!! FC
Use a number 5 container and the black bbs I have been doing that and have had no issues. I am going to try a tumbler next to see what results I get.
+Josh Starr - Sounds like you need to put out a video on your processes - every bit of information that casters have to choose from is good stuff... Have a great day -- FC
+ideamachineim - That's the reason the black bbs are used. I haven't run into the black ones at DSG or Big 5 as of yet... -- FC
I tried with hand shaking and hade some results,then when I saw your video tried with tumbler,but no results,I think that the problem is in type of powder color
FortuneCookie45LC, I enjoy your videos and they have helped me in all my lead searching, ingot making, bullet casting, case tumbling, round loading, bullet shooting endeavors. The problem is, I just can not get my powder coated bullets to come out in the end as good as yours. I am using the HF powder coat. I tried the shake and bake method, then went to using my tumbler. I even added the plastic bb's some others have recommended. My coating is so thin that the finished bullet looks like a piece of red chalk. It is evenly coated but I can almost see the gray bullet coming through. Any suggestions? Keep the videos coming
+Ron Schanz -- What you are running into is the HF Syndrome. The Red HF Powder Coat is the one that works best in producing PC bullets like you have seen in my videos - we want the one coat solution. I just got through trying the HF White and that show through thin PC is really not what we intended. So I did a second coat - improved it, but still not the pure stark white bullet we want. I have concluded that the HF powders do not cover that well unless they are electrostatically sprayed on - but that would cause thicker PC coatings as the thin that we want does not cover as well as we would like. However, thin is win in PC so when I smashed the bullet, the thin powder coat was evident and still bonded to the bullet. So I've come to like the thin marble looking white HF PC on my videos and will be coming out with a reloading video shortly. The key is evenly coated - thin show through areas are actually OK as long as we get the even coating. Putting on 2x or 3x coats is not what we want - poor efficiency. Thick PC may require sizing and sizing of our cast bullets should be avoided at every possibility. Good shootin' to ya, FC
Thumbs up for the NRA commercial about the church shooting in Texas at the beginning of the video.
When the coating is uneven on the shank of the bullet and you size the bullets the shank becomes the correct size but it is not necessarily still centered on the nose of the bullet. Bad news for accuracy.
would it be practical to powder coat 8mm Mauser bullets? and could I push them as fast as a chopper jacketed bullet?
copper*
+Dustin Dorr -- Yes, you certainly can do that. However, the accuracy will still be dependent on the bullet fit to the bore of your rifle. I still like cupro-nickel jacketed bullets for my full power rifle rounds. Best to ya, FC
howdy cookie, question.does powder coating work like sand paper in a barrel?
Rob Tolley - There were some reports that Harbor Freight Black has some abrasives. But the HF Red is a can't miss proposition. I'm trying out some Eastwood powders soon. If PC was damaging barrels, the word would have gone forth long ago... Best to ya, FC
Thank you, that's better than copper coating then,another great tip.thank you again
Have you had a chance to evaluate Elvis Ammo's method of applying the powder coat? It looks promising from his video.
+Tom Demick -- Yes, but if we hand tumble and the powder sticks fine without the heat, then we are already in business (that worked for me for the first 1500 bullets - just hand tumble in Cool Whip container). It was only when the hand tumble didn't work that something else was needed. So far, the vibe tumbler has been very reliable with HF red and yellow. Now if hand tumble doesn't work, then the Elvis :Ammo method needs to be brought in. If it works where hand tumble doesn't, then we are in business. And additionally, if vibe tumble runs into trouble (like with HF white) and then the Elvis Ammo method works, then we are in good business. I'm going to do the HF White with the Elvis Ammo method because I would like to see if I can get those snow white bullets without having to do electrostatic spraying...or just strictly use the HF red and yellow (or go to a better grade of powder) Best to ya, FC
+FortuneCookie45LC Thanks for your response. I've been reloading for several years but, just decided to take the plunge and start casting. I think you and Elvis Ammo pushed me over the edge. It was the emergence of better powder coating techniques that finally made me "do it". My casting pot, dies and molds are all on order (I'm still waiting for them to arrive). Any hints for finding inexpensive lead would be greatly appreciated. ( BTW: I live in North Carolina [a gun friendly state] so, we won't be competing for the same stockpile).
+Tom Demick -- Congrats on the beginning of casting. Used to be that we could get free lead just going to tire shops and asking for wheel weights. If we go to junk yards, metal scrap yards, we pay. If we go to Ebay, Internet or to commercial alloy companies (like RotoMetals) we pay. Free lead still obtainable from ranges like mine where the bullets are just sitting on the ground after the angled armor plate deflects them there. If you have to dig into berms, mind the dust that comes up - there's lead in that dust - a good firm breeze away from you will help huge. Another tip, ask the rangemasters where the lead sources are - Best Regards to ya, FC
Hey Cookie, you sold us on a thin coating. But you forgot to tell us how to achieve it.
I just copper plated my cast bullets with electroplating method now im going to powder coat them to push them beyond 2500 fts . So what is ur opinion ? Is it waste of time
POI POI - Our shooting is our desire and for most, it is also our pastime. Nothing we want to do in shooting is a waste of time - You plating will most likely be on the very thin side. If you are shooting light loads, they are fine as plated. If you are going to push them with PC, the primary for you will be the PC. My own preference is if I'm shooting over 1900 fps, it's time to reach for my little green, red and yellow boxes of storebought bullets. Reason is that, even though the PC allows higher speed shooting, the bullets still have to grip the rifling, and our lead alloys are limited in what they can do in that regard. If they could, the armies of the world would still be shooting cast lead bullets. And the benchrest shooters would not be buying the best jacketed bullets they can get. Have a great day, FC Steve
Hey FC you neglected one important detail ; how do you reduce the thickness of the powder coating on the bullet? Less powder? Less time in the tumbler? Shake it off more in the wire basket? I kept watching until the end of the video waiting for you to explain but you never did. What was your solution?
Thank you for the experimentation and explanation of the powder coat process. It is far too much work and minimal gain for me personally. Not to mention mess. I'll stick to Alox variant tumble lubing. Thanks again for your efforts.
+Michael McNamara -- Nothing wrong with 45/45/10. It really is faster and the resultant antiquing of the cast bullet is not objectionable. Good shootin' to ya... FC
Just want your opinion, does two cavity give better results than a six cavity?
WKShooter - Same results, but more production with the 6. The 6 cavity molds are more time efficient. Bullets from both are the same. Good castin' to ya, FC
FortuneCookie45LC...thanks!
I get great results tumbling for 20 min
Yes sir way to much powder left on the bullets good video
The main issue with the coating is they produce way most smoke which is then inhaled. I don't get that with copper bullets. The coatings or lubricants used seem to vaporize into a mist which copper does not. Thats why I only reload my Colts with copper plated bullets.
Great video, looks cool and all. I just dont see the point in this. Been reloading forever, even cast some bullets (not a lot as you) but why go thru all this time and expense? Lube works well, Lux works well, nothing works well. Dont see the major point in this. Am I missing something?
+ScubaOz -- That's how I felt about PC for a mighty long time...the 45/45/10 effectively lubes 1000 bullets with a total time spent of 15 minutes if I'm taking my time. So why do PC? Thought I'd give it a try to see what all the fuss was about. -- turns out there are advantages of PC that may be worth the time - jury is still out, but PC is not going to go away...I didn't want to be the last one on the train...HLZ Express is rolling... Best Regards, FC
FortuneCookie45LC Yeah, I love coated bullets myself, I have bought from Precesion for a long time, love their stuff. Guess I just need to try it and see how it goes, no harm for sure, just wondering if I need another hobby like I dont have enough! LOL
I use peanut plastic jar with two covers one cover is regular other one is has holes in it just like a parmesan cheese jar cover and first time I cover with bullets and shake it well then I switch cover under funnel in to powder paint jar all the excess paint fall in to back jar and reopen jar cover and bullets places in oven tray I get very even cover paint around bullets . Check it out guys
Old Grumpy - Looks like you are onto something with this...Thanks for posting... Best to ya, FC