I have personal experience with this. Used to work for United at DTW a few years ago. By that point I had been working there for about a year and a half, so I was in that “oh I know what I’m doing” mode, becoming complacent (something you should NEVER DO especially on the ramp). One of our planes came in, an E170. I wasn’t wing walking or marshaling in this flight so I was standing outside of the gate area ready with the chocks and cones for my side. Soon as the plane stopped and I heard the jet bridge bell ringing, signifying it was moving, my brain went into auto pilot. I walked towards the plane, not bothering to check if the movement lights were still on, or if the engine on my side had turned off. I’m a pretty heavy guy, I think at that time I was about 6’2, 280 pounds. I literally walked DIRECTLY in front of the engine. Had the engine not have been turning off literally seconds before I stepped in front of it, or if I had weighed a little less than what I did, I most certainly would’ve been sucked in. I realized my mistake as soon as I dropped the cone in front of the inlet and kept walking and felt the rushing of air and the cone starting to move around. I quickly dashed to the other side of the engine and yoinked the cone with me. The ramp is not somewhere to be complacent or to let your brain go into auto mode. You need to constantly be aware of everything that is going on at all times. Prayers for this woman’s family.
Sometimes I feel like we are in some sort of purgatory, because so many of us have stories where we should have died :s i know i have several. so many miracles
Wow. To me, it seems kind of crazy to me to have people place a cone on the ground in FRONT of a jet engine ?! What is the purpose of the cone - what would it stop anyway ? And a cone could easily be sucked into an engine during startup or shutdown. Seems like an archaic practice maybe from the old piston engine days to try to warn people about the propellers ??? Why would you EVER want to put something on the ground in front of a jet engine SUPER vacuum cleaner ??? Weird lol
I would imagine its a weird mix of if you see it your safe, and if you dont see it your not safe... sort of like, its safe to walk here, but caution. if its not there.... its not safe to go there.
@@KRAM-ct7ok The cones are there to bring attention to points on the aircraft that can be easily hit by ground vehicles. That’s why we put one in front of each engine, at each wing tip, by the tail, and at the front of the plane too if the jet bridge isn’t connected. If the plane is large, like a 787 or A330/340, we place cones at the rear of each engine as well. They are supposed to be placed there AFTER the engine has stopped running and removed BEFORE the engine is turned on again, but me in my apparent random strike of stupidity forgot that fact. 😂
I’m glad you were ok! I work in power plants with large gas turbines and have seen several near misses. It’s so important to never ever become complacent when working with heavy machinery.
6:35 "As she walked towards the tail of the aircraft, she stumbled from the jet blast of the still operating number one engine." That's a very clear warning and reminder to stay clear.
She was truly a very good-looking young lady. But in the photo of her I see a little defiance. She might have believed she knew better about certain things than her advisors. I cannot actually say. But the rear of an engine might burn her and push her back to safety. But the other end could suck her in and grind her up. I wonder if she understood these things.
Agreed, so then to me it makes zero sense that she would walk só close in front of that same engine almost immediately after that she got sucked in. It seriously makes me think that maybe this wasn't an accident. I mean: the woman has a long-time terminal disease, suffers from cognitive decline ánd is using illegal substances, maybe to ease her pain/suffering? Who is to say that she wasn't already on the brink of thinking that she couldn't go on anymore and walking through that jet wash snapped something in her brain? The way the narrator describes what the camera captured seems she was acting pretty deliberate to me, especially when she already had that incident with the jet wash just moments before. Why walk a route that takes her só close to an engine that she already has experienced to be running? If it truly was an accident, which is possible, her cognitive decline was só bad that it didn't even register that she was walking towards that same running engine, she shouldn't have been out on that runway. It makes me wonder what the supervisor's report on the accident said.
@@tjroelsma Thought that also, but every suicide that i know of on ramps they just run right at the engine ! There was one just after this accident! This ramp and management dropped the ball
Served 40 years as a crew chief on C130s, four deadly props spinning like crazy. You could never for one second lose track of where and how you were. Not everyone should be around aircraft.
Well, I have always been afraid of those Allison engines. Powerful? Oh yes. Dangerous? Oh yes. Ever had a prop come loose in flight? But I love that airplane.
Everyone makes stupid mistakes and sometimes its the last mistake they make. I have had few brainfarts in my life that could have potentially kill me. Luckily i am still here.
I was a ramp supervisor for Jetblue, we had a new class of employees come in I almost had an identical incident happen. Number 1 side was on, new kid came walking into the ingestion zone he stopped right in front of the idling engine. I was yelling for him to move, he looked at me and the cone he had in his hand was airborne about to pull off the pole he was holding. Kid took a step towards me and I threw him onto the ground. If he hadnt shuffled towards me asking why i was yelling he wouldve been ground beef
Used to be a lead agent for an airline at PHL for 6 years. Never seen anything like you described, but the lack of safety enforcement should have PHL shut down. No one gives a shit and I'm surprised we never had any fatal accidents while I was there. Some ramp agents had a death wish.
How anyone suffering MS and on numbing drugs was allowed to be a ramp worker is beyond belief. Going by her multiple failures of situational awareness it was only a matter of time before she would be harmed. The employer has a lot of answering to do here considering she was already on the radar as being dangerous
She's not under obligation to tell her employer of her health issues. The responsibility belongs to HER in knowing her limitations in safely doing her job
She would have begged and pleaded not to be left without a job. That is what they do, seen it happen. Also, there is an ingrained terror to fire a diversity hire....
@@graceslick705 Your second sentence has a lot of truth to it, but your first sentence is utter BS. Any prospective employee is absolutely required to meet basic fitness requirements for any job - the more dangerous the job the more critical that screening process is. You are most likely badly confusing HIPAA rules for the very real safety requirements of any and every workplace due to your ignorance of the relevant procedures involved.
@@graceslick705 If we live in a world as you explain this incident will happen over and over. I say incident because this was totally avoidable, so it's no accident. She had been reported before as being dangerous. Hopefully from here on rogue, drugged and sick workers on airport ramps will be shown the door. DEI hire has a lot to answer for.
Have been an Aircraft Mechanic for 44 years. The past few years I’ve seen things that prior would be unthinkable. People on their cell phones driving and walking around aircraft. As a mechanic I am subject to random drug testing. Rampers only get test after an incident. They are towing multimillion dollar aircraft with the test only after an incident. Incidents happen daily throughout the industry.
And they have to hire the "neurodivergent" people for the "Diversity". "Developmental coordination disorder, dyspraxias, dysphagia, aphasia, *multiple sclerosis,* fibromyalgia, brain inflammation related to PANS are all *examples of neurodivergence".* *"Under the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, neurodiversity is a protected class. Best practices in DEI require addressing equity and inclusion with neurodivergent individuals just as much as with race, religion, gender, national origin, etc."*
I don’t work in aviation I work with tree chippers. I work for a govt tree crew. We got a new chipper. One of our employees had a fake arm like a pirate. We told him, he can’t work around the chipper with his fake arm. He said he would sue. So the management let him work with the chipper. A few months later he was sucked into the chipper and died. A 3yr old should know u shouldn’t work around a chipper in such condition.
Marijuana is sometimes used to help medically manage symptoms of multiple sclerosis (MS). With MS one should probably should not have been doing such a job.
This was my immediate thought. I have MS myself, and have significant nerve pain. I take a suite of medications to manage the nerve pain and inflammation, one of them a schedule 1, and because of that I am unable to use THC to treat the lesser effects. Unfortunately the FDA and DEA hasn't caught up with "the times" and medical research, THC is far less damaging to the overall health than some of the patent medicines, but if you take one of them you cannot be caught with THC in your system. A "catch 22" situation. But overall, I agree, she should have not been doing such a dangerous job--after all, MS is well known for also causing what's known as "brain fog" which alone should have disqualified her.
She shouldnt have had to work at all in that sort of pain. But in the US its that or lose your healthcare and end up on the streets for years fighting to get a pittance of disability care.
@@mycosys Your comment is the first one I've found highlighting that she shouldn't have needed to work, rather than she shouldn't have been allowed. We are losing humanity.
@@pomodorino1766Nearly everyone has some sort of ailment that they could use as an excuse not to work. But we don’t. We plug on every day no matter what, and that’s what American exceptionalism is all about. This tragedy is little more than the result of DEI policies and rec. pot use.
As someone who has spent the last 30 years in aviation maintenance and operations, I am floored by some of the factors that led to this tragedy. First of all, why on earth would anyone with MS be allowed to work on a flight line? A medical condition that would add to what is already a dangerous environment is unacceptable. Add to that the young woman had already been cited for unsafe conduct, and smoked pot? When I was working on the flight line as a young sailor, even being on an antibiotic would get you dismissed from the duty until you were well. This terrible situation should never have happened.
So, who's at fault, the employee or the employer? If the airline terminates the employment, or, disciplines the employee in this case, the airline loses a lawsuit. Any women her age has to take some responsibility to protect herself. May she rest in peace, and God bless her children.
Great question…and I’ll first say I agree with you 100%! I speak as a woman in late fifties with diminishing stability due to severe arthritis. My job was QC Inspector in the const industry at heavy commercial job sites. I removed myself from this environment because I felt my diminishing physical capabilities posed a threat to myself and others. My company placed me in another position off job sites without reduction in pay. I tell you this because they confided in me that they were becoming “concerned” about my well being - but - legal was concerned they’d have a fat lawsuit on their hands because of three things: I’m a woman…I’m “older”…and I have physical disabilities. They were worried about DISCRIMINATION. This pink about it…Courtney was a woman…disabled…and Black. This is the horrifying result of companies being afraid to to what is RIGHT due to fear of legal retribution.
One of my brothers works in Fire & Rescue at the airport - several years ago, during training (in England), he witnessed someone getting killed by a propeller - he still won't talk about it to this day.
@@ufc990 Where appropriate, I will talk about the fatalities that I have witnessed, but will not talk about the severity of the injuries of the deceased.
@@KenFullman not even that, but many people sue if not hired due to a medical condition, the lawyers say just make a reasonable accommodation or pay millions in a lawsuit.
As a construction worker, I was subject to drug testing on a random basis. I'm surprised that airports, which are arguably more safety critical, don't use that professional protective strategy.
They don't pay those people enough, especially at a regional airline contractor in a smaller city. If they drug tested that often they would have no one working there. Sad, but true. If you want people to value their jobs enough to not risk losing it like that you have to pay them better. Also, drug tests are expensive and this industry is a penny pinching one.
It's a really expensive thing to implement. If there is no federal mandate to do so, then airports aren't going to drug test. The DOT considers "critical safety" in terms of danger to others. That is, a heavy equipment operator or a pilot/driver has the ability to injure many other people through carelessness, therefore they are required to be tested regularly. Ground handling agents typically only injure themselves through carelessness, so there's no need to drug test them. It sounds cruel, but that's the rationale the government uses.
As a former ramp coordinator and supervisor I was always conducting safety briefings with the crew regarding running engines when APUs were INOP and anything special measures that entailed. After years of handling I moved to maintenance and currently I'm one of the few technicians that go under running engines for troubleshooting purposes and there is nothing to fool around a running jet engine, and must adhere to strict guidelines. During my ramp job I was screened to drugs and alcohol many times but that was a company procedure and not a legal requirement.
Some things to add….after reading the NTSB report, she or her doctor should have removed her from any industrial environment. She lost her eyesight for 2 weeks due to medical issues, would randomly fall or faint, loses control of her hands and feet. She has MS, was diabetic, very obese, and her last doc visit stated she couldn’t perform her job due to MS. NOW, that aside…her blood test showed THC-9 at 7.4ng/mL…that is LEGALLY high. Washington State for an example at 5nm you get a DUI. While there are many issues why this lady should have been removed from the job due to medical issues, the fact was she was coming down from smoking weed and was high. Side note, I still can’t believed OSHA fined the airline for “safety lapses” for a employee that got high off weed and then walked into a running engine.
Sadly in my working experience I find that there are people who simply cannot be disciplined and refuse to follow procedures that they do not agree with...Even worse is when the people get promoted and then often get praised for their "Getter Done" mentality and corner cutting... You can indeed do it wrong and get away with it endless times....But you can only not get away with it once...
Those folks have NO PLACE on an aircraft ramp. Jet engines are GIANT vacuum cleaners, and props will turn you into hamburger. Even the prop from a Cessna 182! Iv'e seen idiots trying to hand prop an un-chalked aircraft. It did not turn out well for them. THINK people!
My career hasn't brought me within ten miles of aircraft operations, and I can assure that this is universal across all industries. There are a lot of people who shouldn't be allowed out of their homes.
I really appreciate the manner you reported this information! You are so correct about the difficulty in self policing cognitive impairment. Regardless of the circumstances, a young mother’s life ended tragically too soon and you treated her story with the dignity she deserved. Thank you!
My dad was with the RAF and he worked on the fix the engines on the airfield. This was back in the 60’s and one working day himself and a couple of other lads got to working on a smaller plane, couldn’t tell you what type it was. The propellers were started up and one of the lads who my dad was best buddies with backed up into the rotating propeller and yeah, instant boom. My dad was cover in his best friend’s body bits. Poor guy and it messed my dad up for years. 😮💨 poor lady.
You wouldn't believe how close this comes to happening all the time. If we get to the gate and have to leave an engine running and wait for ground power, I cringe waiting. I dread a ramper who may be new, tired or borderline experiencing heat stroke, dropping their guard and walk in front of that engine. Its a painful wait for that ground power. This only happens when the APU is inoperable, because if it is working, I get that left engine off ASAFP.
@@DragonPhlyy generally we shut down the right engine first. One reason is because the cargo doors are on that side so the odds are even higher someone will walk in front of the right engine to open the forward cargo door. There is nothing on the left side. Even still, people randomly do what this girl did, and walk in front of the left engine while heading back toward the front of the plane.
@@jonesjones7057 I see the cargo door argument but they "should" not be approaching the aircraft until the engine is shuut down but someone will approach the aircraft while the engine is running from the left side to plug in the GPU. I Guess Im just thinking since the GPU needs to be plugged in while the Engine is running why not shut down the engine that is on the same side as the GPU?
As someone who's worked on a US Aircraft Carrier on the deck during flight ops, it's extremely dangerous during normal situations, weather, night ops, etc. She was 100% responsible for her life! She had no business being a Ramp Agent under her personal circumstances!
I have had a lot of people ask if Submarine Duty was really dangerous - I have always said the fight deck of an aircraft carrier is the most dangerous duty I am aware of - I also said that to my grandson when he enlisted and thought of serving on one - he is currently serving on his second attack sub - Smart kid
Why did it take NTSB two years to figure out the cause of the accident being MS and THC? Why do they need to have a special meeting to handle this aircraft on the ground? All employees were already trained to work around the airplanes on the ramp, unless this was a special case. What was the rush to send a ground crew to secure a broken aircraft before turning off all the engines? She probably was disoriented after breathing posienes exhaust gasses from the engine blast. A woman with 3 children and a known disease should be collecting disability and not walking around dangerous machines. She was driving to work and working normally and safely until the day of the accident, and most employees get a notice from their employers at some point, and she was among thousands of other unlocky people who were killed by running engines and props. In my opinion the airport was working with the airliner to save money by rushing the ground handling, and also the pilot should allow a running engine a few meters from the exit door door.
@@ShonMardani Were you listening to the video? They did write up the report and she signed it. She knew she was about to get fired if she didn't clean herself up. She was definitely not working normally and safely up until that point. No, the engine blast did not disorientate her with fumes. She was already out of it and that's why she was even in the jet blast to begin with. She was so out of it that she went from being waved off by the pilot after the jet blast incident only to decide to repeat the same behaviour, in front of the engine this time. And yes, the safety huddle is a short safety briefing to remind people of the extreme dangers they are working in and address any new information or concerns, like that an engine was going to be running on this aircraft. They are done in every single industry for this reason, every single day and every single new and dangerous situation. Clearly you've never worked in a dangerous environment. Lastly, just because she had MS doesn't mean she was useless and should be on disability. That is so insulting and near-sighted. Disability doesn't cut it when you have 3 kids anyway. And I'm sure she had dreams of some kind of career. But we should just stuff handicapped people into their homes and say stay there? Wow. I surely hope you are under the age of 15. I have never heard such absolute ignorance of reality in anyone older than that.
@@SianaGearzI mean it sounds like the options were 1) firing her because she can no longer perform her job safely because of the effects of MS or 2) letting her continue to work despite diminished capacity. Both options suck.
I do wonder why they kept her with those issues and mentally addled drugs. No disrespect, I assume she was pain managing, but why hire her, and keep her on?
Been around aircraft as ramp service and chief for 25 years. Seen many a person hurt. One new employee walked behind #1 engine to chalk rear wheel on a 737. His first day of work. He was out for 6 months recovering from broken collar bone and clavicle as he tumbled head over heel from the jet blast. He was dubbed "tumbleweed" from then on and never shook his nickname the total time I was at that station. Worked at station where a ramp agent walked into a running propeller. Split her in two from shoulder to naval. Watched her gurgle her last breath with blood flowing from mouth and body. Also, volunteered to work a station in Norfolk Virginia to cover the ramp so personnel could attend the funeral of a fellow ramper who was killed during a pushback accident. She had been disemboweled. She was killed when the towed bar disconnected during pushback and push tractor lurched into the front nose cone of MD80 aircraft causing the steering wheel to collapse into her. She was driving. I can honestly say that this scenario with running wing mounted engines was drilled into us of not walking in front ir rear of running engines. Posters in break rooms, ops etc if "Don't get sucked in" were posted at all 8 stations i worked. It was common knowledge from day 1. She should have had a wakeup call when she felt the jetblast causing her to remember engine 1 running. Sad. So many other injuries ive seen, lost leg and a couple of broken backs to name a few. Be safe!
@davidsmiths5471 oh he was told what to do and didn't follow the instructions. People were yelling at him as he moved away from where he was supposed to go but of course too much noise, he continued. It only took a second and off he was tumbling. At our station, we normally didn't work 737 but this was a drop in and he was verbally told not to move in until engines off. It happened.
I just retired from AA after over 40 years as an A/P mechanic working on the ramp and in the hangers, and I don't think people understand just how dangerous working around these oversized hoover vacuum cleaners can be. Some of the old style low bypass jet engines of the 60's and 70's had stators in front of the 1st stage fan blade that POSSIBLY could stop you from being pulled all the way through the engine and spit out the back. These did not. You WILL NOT survive if you get sucked into one of these high-bypass engines, even if it's idling. I was shocked to hear she wasn't pulled all the way through and was ejected out the front. I pray for whomever had to witness that, or see the aftermath. Had this been the larger CFM engines used on the larger narrow body Boeing or Airbus aircraft, more than likely they would be picking up her remains with tweezers. To all you young people that want to work in this industry, it's very rewarding, and the pay is good, and the benefits are too, but also realize being complancient on the ramp can cost you your life, as it did this young lady. You'd be amazed how many 'close calls' I've seen during my career - and deaths.
I am fully, fully aware of the dangers. And is why I will never, ever step foot on a ramp, tarmac, or anything that an airplane is sitting on. Cause I ain't stupid. How could anyone not see a running engine as dangerous to walk in front of? It's baffling.
I have a friend who has MS. She's on disability because she can't work and has to us3 a wheelchair frequently. She speaks of "cog fog" and about a tiredness that no amount of rest or sleep will fix.
Thanks for getting the full story out to everyone. Far too many of these kinds of things sweep things under the rug to spare family members feelings rather than focus on educating everyone of the real causes of accidents.
Absolutely. Condolences to the family of course but the most important thing is to find out what happened, as that tells you what you need to change to make sure it doesn't happen again.
How about mentioning disabled people in so much pain they cant think straight shouldnt HAVE to work jobs like this, especially not in the richest country in history. But if she lost her job, she lost her cover, and probably her home and any way to support her family. If shes lucky after a few years homeless with her family she might get through legal appeals for disability cover.
@ She didn’t have to work around machinery. Plenty of other jobs for people that lack the attention to detail to safely work in dangerous environments. We already have half the population that doesn’t actually contribute enough to even pay their share of operating the country. Now you want to let a bunch of self-diagnosed “disabled”people not work and instead get paid to sit on their asses and smoke pot?
I liked your video. I retired from this airline just before this happened. The noise of this of this engine is so tremendous when close enough to get pulled in that the NTSB explanation sounds correct .
As a person with a disability in a Right to Work State, I don't tell anyone that I have a disability because its an automatic flag to fire me ASAP. As a person with a disability, I'd need to work full time for healthcare insurance to be able to afford my medications. This is why I fought for four years to get SSDI (disability). No, it's not ideal, but I was losing my ability to work and thus my needed healthcare insurance. Luckily, my mom let me live here, and I now pay her rent in thanks. Otherwise, I'd be unmedicated living under a bridge. I'm now struggling to leave this state to get the healthcare I need. The south is evil for a reason.
The human factor isn't taken account of. It's not normal that healthcare is a business. I'm glad to live in a country where I don't have to worry about it. I think American people deserve better. Instead of bullying other countries, they should take care of their own people. Being a wealthy nation don't mean anything when 1% of the population holds everything.
Alternatively, people still need to work and MS already removes a lot of labor options… perhaps the FAA should tighten the medical restrictions or drug test ramp workers. If this country treated those suffering from life-altering disabilities like MS better, then maybe these types of situations wouldn’t happen. Sadly, because of where we are with MS research, THC remains one of the best MS pain management drugs. I know this is completely anecdotal, however I’ve known three people who were able to get off of heavy duty pain medications with the help of THC. It’s definitely a trade off when it comes to effects though.
Depends on the individual. Some people can be fucking dying and still perform decently but others, when they get mentally fatigued, it all just goes bad quickly
@@TitaniumTurbine She could have worked in a whole lot of other positions that truly were not 'safety sensitive'. They could have transferred her to a department that she could handle. I'll have to watch this video again to see if the employer even knew she had MS. Maybe they didn't? Since it wasn't classified as a 'safety sensitive' position, maybe they didn't ask and she didn't offer that up? It's not required, I don't think, to state your exact medical condition unless it is incompatible to the job. And she'd be the only one to know that. If she withheld her MS from them, then...wow, that's another level of deceit. Still, the lack of being classed as a 'safety sensitive' position really restricted what the company could do to keep people safe. It means no drug testing and no medical or fitness acknowledgements that might impact safety in that position. I hope they've addressed that. The whole thing is just shocking.
This is why I always move over or stop for broken down vehicles on the road. Someone involved with the breakdown might unknowingly walked right on to road in front of you because they forgot for a moment were they were in relation to the road. We all have had moments like this better to be safe.
It even the law in many states, but that doesn't stop arrogant drivers from blowing past stopped vehicles, breaking the law, and endangering everyone in their vicinity.
People's experiences obviously provide responsible reactions which is the very reason that guidance thru common practices have actually been written into Mandatory rules of the Road, in more and more State's and jurisdiction. Washington State sets a good example. RCW 46.61.212 Emergency or work zones-Approaching-Penalty-Violation. I really appreciate such common sense issues being enforced ! Professional Driver's have shown incredible and inspirational skills in my Law Enforcement Career. Nowadays it's far to easy for Motorists to drive safely with all the electronic devices, and even food, and beverages diverting their attention. I've been on the Roadside, actually far away from the white painted line commonly called "The Fog Line" ... I was in a Police Patrol Car, which was Brand New... Only 200 actual miles on it... And was decked out in a very stunning selection of a UltraHD LightBar, Wig-wags, and corner-edge strobes . I performed a traffic stop on a vehicle which performed an unauthorized entrance onto a State Highway. My Vehicle was placed at a reasonable angle to provide protection and cover for the both of our vehicles. I had requested and received vehicle documents, commonly requested, and as I had just closed my Driver's door... I was struck by a vehicle which had been forced into my vehicle at 60+ Miles Per Hour. My Chest immediately struck the Center Equipment Rack, and Fortunately for me, My Ballistic Vest and it's Trauma Plate saved me from a more physically damaging issue. I was scrambling back to make sure the other occupants of the vehicle I had just contacted, were not injured. Which was Fortunately the case. End result was an incredible story for several hundred Motorists driving slowly by with mouths moving obviously saying "WTF" happened there... I'll end the story with an extreme thanks, for My Ballistic Vest, the Amazing Ford Pursuit Vehicle... And a Great State Patrol Professional, Trooper Hinton... God Was Truly in Charge ! 🙏 Please Please Please !!! Pay Attention while Driving ! And have an Amazing Holiday Season... #ARRIVE_ALIVE YOU MATTER !!!
@@Deekedthose where the days when you didn’t want to be the one who doesn’t move to the far lane when passing. Therefore, paying attention to what is going on around you was the norm when you drive. Driving Thanksgiving weekend Sunday was painful with more than one handful of accidents. It was excruciating. 😢
I don't understand why Piedmont was fined. It seems to me they did everything they were supposed to do, they did two briefings and had her on a couple write ups for previous incidents. What more could they have done?
@@I_Am_Your_Problem _Any other dumb questions?_ Yes actually, okay, so you don't allow her to be employed in positions that could cause accidents. Do you also support her having decent social security so she doesn't have to do such work? Do you have any empathy here? Do you think that maybe some additional training could have helped? What about drug testing? Looking forward to your answers and hopefully you'll learn some manners on the way.
Kept her off the tarmac and let HR worry about it from there. They followed all the proper HR procedures, did the briefings, did the right ups. Did the retraining. The one thing they didn’t do was pull her out of the danger zone.
@@gdwnet Oh, please. Shall we make excuses for everyone? I don't. There's not enough time and money to take care of foolish people. I am responsible for the consequences of my actions. So are you. So was she.
@@gdwnet um, that's completely jackass comment. It's completely irrational. If you can't do the job properly according to the guidelines and requiements, you don't belong in the job. Once a person has had a couple warnings or write-ups, they don't belong in the position as they present hazard to themselves and everyone else including the aircaft engines and company. No empathy for incompetence. Much empathy for others who suffered this horrible event.
There was a go fund me set up for Courtney’s family after the accident. I don’t know if it’s still active. I don’t know her, or many ramp agents personally, but as an airline pilot these people have my utmost respect. They work in heat, cold, rain, and snow to keep airliners moving, for very little money, and not nearly enough respect. Regardless of someone’s life choices and physical disabilities, no one should ever go to work, and not return to their loved ones at the end of their shift. I wish nothing but the best for Courtney’s family. I never met her, but she was part of my workplace, extended family, of which there are thousands of members scattered around the US and the world.
@@catherinethembaSomeday you’ll have a moment or longer of inattention. Hopefully it doesn’t cost you your life. Regardless of the medical conditions and life choices Courtney made, her children had no control over that, and it doesn’t take much grace to understand they will face challenges ahead.
@@catherinethembashe was a single mom with 3 children who still need care and did nothing wrong. As well as funeral expenses. Both things can be true ya know, she may have acted negligently or been her fault but still deserves empathy and compassion for her and her family after suffering a violent death. Geez.
I have MS and at least in my case, by the time i was done with the "flare up," I knew I was cognitively impaired. I knew something had happened, I couldn't sit still and read, as I now had trouble concentrating. I had mild aphasia. It sucked. Just so you know, a lot of people with MS smoke weed for pain relief. It's not as strong as the stuff the doctor may prescribe. I'm not saying that a person medicating with marijuana should work near airplanes, they shouldn't, as this case shows. A lot of people with MS won't admit to it, for fear of losing their jobs.
Thank you, the accident makes a little more sense now. She was trained about the dangers of jet engines, she was briefed that this particular plane would come in with the engines running and must be handled differently, she walked behind the running engine and stumbled from its blast, then she walked in front of it anyway. I could not understand how anyone would be that stupid. Perhaps she was having an MS flare up that was mentally incapacitating.
I was considering that too. If she was tolerant to a certain amount of weed on a daily or regular basis to cope with MS, the amount in her system at the time of this incident might reflect this tolerance level. They'd have to find out more about her usage habits to determine that. Here in Canada we are more accepting of using weed for medical purposes, so it's not like it's a surprise that someone with MS would use it for that. It is legal everywhere in Canada too, with some restrictions of course (unless you live in lower mainland, BC where people have been growing weed on their patios in plain view since forever and nobody ever cared, lol). But we do have some pretty strict rules regarding working and driving with THC in your system. Not allowed anywhere, especially in the oilfield and trucking industries and regarding Graduated Drivers Licensing. Random and regular drug screening is something they don't slack on. I'm shocked that it is not required for ramp workers BECAUSE it is not considered "safety sensitive". Is that a US thing since this was a US company? I feel like because her employer already knew about her MS (assuming they did) and her lax work ethic but still did not fire her, this might have led her into a false sense of job and safety security. So perhaps in her mind, if she wasn't yet fired, then it must be all good...carry on as usual? Or did she work with a Union who usually make it really, really difficult for an employer to fire someone? Did she feel her job was protected to a certain extent by the Union, also giving her a false sense of security in her employment status? Or did she go to work knowing she was unfit but knew she was already towing the line with that report so better go to work anyway? If they had just done drug screening...they could have fired her on the spot and saved her life. A missed opportunity. Safety is WHY we do drug screening in the first place. The only reason. Even so, ultimately she is the only one capable of recognising when she is in over her head and when it's time to just stay home to deal with her MS stuff rather than taking weed to cope and still go to work in this particularly dangerous place. I just hope the airline has revised the "safety sensitive" classification and its hiring and training practices since then. Maybe reviewed who else they have on staff who might be in a similar position without them realising it.
Yes. And the treatments for MS are very expensive: losing one's medical insurance (due to job loss) is a major hazard. So she likely had multiple incentives to cover up, especially since she was (apparently) providing for her children. Another good reason for universal health care...
Back in the 90’s I was checking in to Memphis Naval Station. I noticed a guy with cuts and bruises all over his arms and head. He was the lucky Sailor that was sucked into a jet engine and survived. He lost his helmet and it fodded out the engine before he did.
Think that was an A-6 when that happened. I was stationed on the USS Lexington in the 80's and witnessed someone get hit with jet blast from an A-4 at full power ready to launch and he was thrown up against the JBD. He was shaken up and taken to medical but never heard the extent of injuries.
Wait she refused to sign a write-up 4 months before this? This is weird. Every company I've ever worked for or even heard of refusal to sign a write-up is mandatory termination.
He said it was for appearance so I wouldn't be surprised if one day she was too tired to shower or dress the "right" way and so she didn't sign it because the requirements wouldn't even affect work. I wouldn't be surprised if before that happened she had to take on extra shifts at the last second to cover someone else too
They are absolutely allowed to refuse to sign, this is extremely common. The issuing party simply notes on the document that the recipient individual refused to sign. Not a terribly big issue, actually.
Jet Engine Mechanic here, When working on or around Aircraft especially running engines, Don’t get STONED or Drunk (Should be Common Sense) especially if you have a medical condition like M.S. In my opinion, there’s nobody to blame except her and what a tragedy it is because now her children don’t have a mother.
The toxicology report revealed EVIDENCE of THC, but her level of impairment WAS NOT DETERMINED. We all know THC is detectable for weeks after use by many screenings, so there's no evidence presented here that indicates she was stoned. She could have ingested marijuana the night (or even days) before and been perfectly sober on the tarmac.
I just can’t believe that she walked in front of a running engine. I have heard of people walking into spinning propellers and again it amazes me. One would think that they were trained not to get sucked into an airplane engine.
I visited the local Air National Guard base a few years back and got to go in the hush house where they test the engines. The amount of air this building pulled through it was incredible. The outside is covered in perforated steel but the vacuum the engine pulls stuck us to the walls. It was impressive and sobering to be near that level of power. I guess if you're around them every day, you might forget how powerful jet engines are, but I won't soon forget
I worked with airplanes in the 80s -90s. A powerplant engineer at a client airline had two mechanical arms. Old style with cables and pincers. He got sucked into the engine of an old 737-200. His body stopped at the engine inlet but his arms didn’t. Jet blast blew another guy into the blast wall during an engine test.
I am still stuck on the Airline failing to maintain the APU to perform the operation safely in the first place. It seems completely insane to keep a jet running at the dock. i have come down ramps and hear the engine cranked right up and think wow, that sounds aggressive. And also planes have managed to continue to navigate and fly safely in the case of fuel starvation to the main engines or other causes of engine failure. Safely in the sense that they are able to perform emergency measures correctly with the systems still running by APU. As far as the lady. Simply poor management, nothing more. Why can't airlines strive to be proud of a great safety record, as they used to do, instead of just having profit motives always taking precedence..
@@danielocarey9392 I don't think Courtney was complacent OR defiant. I think she was floating on a marijuana cloud and not quite all there. Working the ramp you can become numbed to the sound and fury going on around you. Ask me how I know.
I hope this doesn’t come off too harsh but when you’re working around dangerous equipment, you need to have your you know what wired to your head some people just don’t have the reflexes and attention span to be around dangerous equipment
You are correct. As an airline ramp trainer, I have had trainees quit after classroom phase as they were introduced to the flightline and driving bag tugs (with a trainer) They could not handle the aviation environment and just quit.
@@davidsmiths5471 Yes and yes. No info on other wingwalker.If #2 not running, right WW probably assumed okay (disregarding beacon) Even at idle, engine pushes out a lot of exhaust laden air that is horrible to breath (another reason not to approach until spool down with beacon off) Daydreaming? Complacent? Heard-it-all-before and nothing happened? Know-it-all? No respect for authority of crew chief (who is responsible for all that occurs at gate) Certain populations don't like instruction from another certain type of population and ACTIVELY disregard obvious important information because THEY resent the dynamic. I do not know others involved in this case. I was called a racist (after the fact to my manager) by a guy who transferred in from another station, just off an injury and had only 3 months experience, who I never even met. He incofrrectly chocked the main gear and I caught it as he was walking off and immediately corrected right then and there. I was accussed of being a racist because I yelled at him. I spoike LOUDLY due to the environment, not because of his skin color! Guy tried to get me fired! He was worthless and seemly tolerated because of short staffing. Maybe he changed. I hope he did. While I was there, he and others like him would disregard SOPs and wander up as a/c taxing into gate and f up preplanning because did not know what was being prioritized for offload-onload. These types were untouchable and were warm bodies most of the time.
As a former ramp agent were always told when the power has to be connected before both engines turns off before the plane landed... which means you only need to chock the nose gear.. she was sadly in her own world on several occasions but this time she wondered into the danger zone too closely... Condolences.
I used to be a ramp agent for Delta at LAX. We temporarily had a hard stand area for the RJ’s when we switched from T5 to T2 back in 2017. One time a E175 came in and the ticket agent decided to help us and put the cone in front of the #1 engine. She didn’t wait for it to spool down and her umbrella got sucked into the engine. She stood there screaming and pulling on it. One of my co workers close by grabbed her by the back of her jacket and pulled her back. Nobody got hurt, but the engine was destroyed.
Unbelievable how close to a gruesome death she was. It’s staggering that people with so little understanding of the dangers surrounding them are allowed anywhere near an airport ramp.
@@RichardS-qh8mi Agree 100%. Untrained people should not be in areas of dangerous machinery without training or a guide, it's a massive monetary, insurance and bodyily harm risk.
I remember an airliner that suffered a gear malfunction in one of the main gears. The pilot attempted getting the gear down by applying G force. In the end the pilot was forced to land without one wheel. No one was hurt but the plane was damaged as were the nerves of all aboard. Turns out a ramp worker had placed wheel calks in the wheel well, then forgot it. When the pilot raised the gear it stowed properly, but the chalk fell into place to lock the door shut.
I remember when this happened, the pilots at ORD didn’t even want to turn the engines on until after we had completely finished pushing them out after this happened. This is the sad result of complacency like he said. Safety is always paramount to anything on the ramp. Rest in peace Courtney from a fellow ramp rat
This seemed to me to be a balanced report with good conscience and empathy. Someone who - to me - has noticable difficulty reading out loud harrowing information is useful to listen to. Thankyou
I know. She had mouths to feed. People never think that it will happen to them, though. Alcohol, marijuana, and other drugs, do not belong around dangerous mechanical equipment. And especially cell-phones.
Very well presented, but what a sad story. Spent six years in the Navy Air working around aircraft on the ramp when I was a youngster and thankfully survived. Dangerous place to be and that was on my mind every day, every hour, every minute and every second.
Im a little past 5 years at UPS on the sunrise shift (2am start) Previous shifts have allowed wingwalkers to carry tail, wing, and engine cones with them when bringing in the aircraft so that they would not need to walk back to the nose of the aircraft, grab the cones and then head back out to place them in order to "save time", most shifts stopped this practice as wingwalkers were walking out into jet blast as they weren't paying attention and were working on muscle memory. Our shifts practice has been once the aircraft is stopped the wing walkers take a long arc outside of the aircraft perimeter back to the T or nose position where the cones, chocks, GPU and other equipment is kept during block in. The supervisor gives the okay one minute after the engines are cut and it is safe to work on the aircraft. This eliminates "bad" muscle memory and replaces it with a "safer" routine. As for drug test policy I believe it is only after the job offer and after an injury, but it depends on fed/state/union policies/agreements. Tug drivers driving behind the aircraft while engines are running is currently an issue as tug drivers are driving like they are on the 15 freeway. Cones, chocks, personnel and even aircraft aren't enough to slow down or make them take a different route. we've had drivers drive though our cones, nearly hit our stairs and weave through our crew actively trying to bring an aircraft onto the gate because their empty ULD absolutely needs to be on the other side of the ramp in the next minute -_-. I do believe it will be one of our next big injuries unfortunately.
I was a ramp instructor for two years straight. Every three weeks, we had a new class, and sometimes a holdover from the previous class who needed more attention. I didn't realize how stressful it was until I quit doing it, and moved into a safety auditor role. I believed in "Having the courage to speak up" about personnel, or policy, but very seldom would the higher-ups take heed. This kind of accident was always my worst fear, not only for the individual and family, but for those who witnessed it. I don't know how anyone could return to the ramp, having experienced such an event. I wanted to be able to sleep at night, knowing I had made my concerns clear to management. It's all I could do. Terribly tragic!
It would not be that difficult to build the planes to have a retractable screen that gets put in place in front of the engines once reverse thrust opps are finished. Then, at departure during taxi they could be stowed.
@@danielocarey9392I am just not sure how something like that would work. Oh I am sorry, I just thought of how it could work. A heavy screen would be affixed to the front of the engine and if you get pulled in you wouldn’t get into the fan… I am sure some engineer will tell me how something like that would not be good for an aircraft engine. If you are talking about something that would be placed on the engine that wouldn’t have worked here on a plane that had just landed.
I totally agree with you on that. I was a crew chief who would speak up and management would not take heed. I ended up switching to a different department.
As a safety professional in manufacturing, I worked for a couple of very good companies, mostly safety was not taken seriously enough. Production volumes nearly always come before safety.
I have only today come across your channel but I must say I am immediately impressed by your cool, non-click batey approach to aviation issues. I subscribe to Mentour Pilot and Everyday Astronaut amongst others as I have a broad interest in all things space and aviation and your channel is a welcome addition to my list. Looking forward to going back over some of your earlier content, Happy New Year!
@@pi.actualwait, really? That's a rather active and demanding job to not have minimum levels of fitness. (Not saying you're wrong, I'm just surprised)
Over 20 years ago I had to go to the airport and pick up cargo. Things like blood, tissues, organs, and bank work. There were two companies that services the planes but no one to pick up cargo(at night). I had to drive out to the plane and usually tie down the plane so it wouldn't lift up and down on my van. I learned what to do to be safe but I bumped my head on things under the wing. I'm never drove out there until all engines were turned off.
Good film, and the first one of yours I have seen. One part of my previous job involved inspecting an overhead crane that was so old it had open conductors rather than insulated ones. When I had a trainee I would show them the crane and explain the dangers that 600 VDC and 100 A presented. My point was that you never turn your back on something dangerous and always [unless you are stepping off a cliff] step forwards first. I hope that I still do this, but it only takes one time to forget to pay the price.
Diet is a huge component. females should be eating 12-15 eggs a week to get enough cholesterol intake, men should be eating two dozen per week. Over the past fifty years, cholesterol and eating eggs have been demonized, but the brain is 70% cholesterol, and the myelin sheath around nerves is mostly cholesterol at the age of 50, i've now switched mostly to an animal-based diet because plants HAVE NO ANIMAL CHOLESTEROL. Anyone you know with tremors or any neurological condition needs to be prescribed more egg YOLKS to restore their supply of cholesterol. Eggs should be a mandatory part of our diet, and vegetarians and vegans are absolutely screwed. You have no idea how many of my patients, when queried, say they are vegetarian, and that they "don't like" the taste of meat or eggs. Complete woke nonsense.
The company was fined because although they had a good drug testing policy to prevent this sort of thing from happening, they weren't actually following the policy and they weren't drug testing people. Hence the fine, because having a good safety policy is pointless if you aren't following it.
She shouldn't have been allowed to work in that job based on her medical history alone. The cannabis may or may not have had a significant contribution, you don't know that, neither does anyone else. Many MS sufferers find that using cannabis helps to reduce their symptoms. That said, such a high dose as this woman had is not necessary for the benefits. An intoxicating dose is not necessary for the benefits.
@@antonystringfellow5152they’re not allowed to ask her about any pre existing medical conditions…would be discriminatory and they would be sued….they’re just supposed to hire ….but also, get sued….Courtney FAILED Courtney
Actually ignoring people smarter than themselves is modus operandi for at least 50% of US voters... at least this time the stupids couldn't steal another election.
They should have found her something else to do. I can't believe that someone who is allowed to work on the flight line isn't held to a stricter standard.
@@aprilkurtz1589 Working on a circuit board isn't going to kill you in a split second. There's time to check your work as well as peer review. Which only adds to the point they should have just found her something else to do. I'm sure there are jobs that don't involve walking around an active jet engine.
I worked the ramp for Delta AL for almost 6 years and we never had any close calls. Everybody was very well aware of the dangers of the ramp and we all looked out for each other. The only incident that happened on our ramp happened several years after I quit. A young man decided to end his life by jumping into the running engine of a A319 that was being guided into the ramp. The ramp is a very dangerous place to work if you’re not careful.
You stated that plane needed to have Jet bridge in place before GPU but that is not a fact. The GPU could have been connected but it looks like it was not in place. If the GPU was in place as soon as the plane stopped then the engines could have been shut down.
@@ianwilson4286So 2 alleged briefings, so one person was told hold on to belt loader,other wing walker was told stand between the wing and tail,other place a cone by the tail,orange vest open the front bin! Me being the marshaller will bring the aircraft in singal chokes placed, then will stand under the nose and wait for the power cord to come to me,while the pilot is still stomping on the brakes,thinking we're did everyone go?
I have lost two aunts and an uncle to MS. It's a terrible disease, and I guess if there is ever a silver lining, her family doesn't have to suffer seeing her deteriorate as it ravages her body. Two of my cousins (brothers) were diagnosed with Huntington's. The symptoms are very similar to MS, and after seeing their mom and my grandma go from it, they both chose to end it early. Drug testing is definitely needed, but I doubt it was a contributing factor in this case. I hope we can learn from this and prevent it from happening again. It should never have happened in the first place.
I fueled aircraft at Denver International Airport a few decades ago. We were all warned not to get close the the intake of the engines as well. I did have to walk around the front of running engines on a few occasions but I do remember staying a good 30 ft away from the intake as I didn't want to take chances and it still made me nervous walking in front of them. It only takes a split second to make a fatal mistake.
Just curious, why did you have to be near the intake of the turbine? I've worked the ramp and that was something that we would get reprimanded for doing - it was absolute taboo. Glad you listened to you instincts.
Having worked on a military flight line, aircraft are extremely dangerous. Prayers for her family and those impacted by this tragedy. Hopefully, some rules or guidelines come out to increase crew and passenger safety.
Like you I worked on military flight lines with transports (turbo-prop and jet powered), fighters, bombers and helicopters at various stages of my career. They each had their particular hazards, but every single one was dangerous. Tragic that someone who probably should have not been on the flight line was allowed to be there and was killed.
As someone who knows nothing about planes, this was a brilliant and concise explanation of what happened. Quick and to the point. On the note of Safety Sensitive work, there was an interesting exception at a railroad I worked for. I worked in an office miles from any actual trains doing dispatch, but our office did not handle any rail switching which seemed to be the government's line for Safety Sensitive. The company still drug tested us for good measure, we handled the emergency number listed at the crossings after all.
Having worked at UPS for over 7yrs air overnite service. You would not believe how often this type of stuff almost happens. Every time we had to air start an aircraft that anomaly to our routine or any change was the most dangerous time for all of us. Having stated on a previous vid as the pushback driver I watched three long term employee's walk thru the jet wash of an engine, one got launched 20' down the tarmac, the second somehow air walked thru it and the third realized opps bad idea.
But with UPS you should be loading from the left. True? So, the engine that runs the generator should be on the right. I have been around aerospace engineers much. But I've not full understanding about why the left engine here was used.
@@danielocarey9392 As far as loading cargo aircraft different aircraft have all different configurations, but I have never seen an aircraft that didn't load from both sides. In regards to the APU being inoperative in cargo the plane is going to be shut down, and then one engine is air started, and that engine would then start the second engine. The accident I witnessed these guys were helping with the air starting procedure and then walked away into the jet blast of the first running engine.
Yep. Same here. That was like the #1 thing we learned. I always behaved as if they were running and approached a shut-down turbine with respect and awareness even if I had to drop a cone or servicing for a RON.
In my experience, some people just have a bad attitude when it comes to safety. They're there physically for the safety briefings, but their mind is somewhere else. They know it all, and "who the hell is this guy trying to teach anyway".
Back when I was an EMS training officer this always blew my mind. I mean they literally saw what happened to people who had failed to follow work safety rules every day. But try to get them to follow some basic common sense safety rules when out on a dark rainy highway accident scene at midnight? Nope!
@@davidsmiths5471 You again with your stupid opinions? Really? She was standing NEXT to the crew chief. I have been this guy. I had no ability to pick my crew as assigned by mgmt randomly based on start times and qualifications. I have given this SAME briefing, standing in the corporate "Circle of Safety" painted on the ramp at every gate. I have used the mandated verbiage on the Green "huddle cards" prior to every arrival, having to wave wing walkers (like her) who had already and knowingly, parked their butts at the roadway separating the active taxiway from the ramp/gate. I have been observed and have done the observing of arrival crew procedures which includes "Did the ALA (crew chief) conduct a pre-arrival huddle?" Maybe your question is not so stupid as is your insinuation of improper procedures.
I was a commercial and sport fisherman, and construction worker. Dealing with adults who act like spoiled children goes with the territory. Tell them anything that they should know, and their ego is bruised. What often follows is intentionally doing the exact opposite of common sense and/or best practices - extreme risk, fouling up the work - be damned.
I worked at MKCI as a Field maintenance worker. Basically just mowing the airfield and snow removal. You get drug tested to get the job and random testing whenever they wanted to. I just assumed the ramp agents were subjected to the same drug policies that we were. I stand corrected now.
Tragic to be sure, but this was entirely avoidable and the woman involved was totally responsible for the incident. It seems clear to me that Piedmont had done everything they could reasonably do, including 2 separate safety briefings for the ramp crew prior to the arrival of that aircraft. I have worked in the automotive industry, and was certified as a haz-mat technician. The training was very intensive as the circumstances could be life threatening. There is little room for error. Ms. Edwards paid a high price for her inattentive behavior.
@@davidsmiths5471it started with the hiring and job selection. I believe in the ADA but some extra consideration needs to be used in job placement. ✌️
@@davidsmiths5471 There is only so much a guy can do. I did this for 33 years for major airlinr that has this a/c in it's fleet. I have given this same briefing to my crews as well transmitted inop apu from dispatch to ground crews. I was also a trainer and had FAA/OSHA compliance responsibilities. Mgmt is reluctant to fire anybody that has been hired, been through the training, in uniform, and actually shows up. Add to the fact that this was a black female that literally cannot be touched by corporate america without being sued and shovel out a cash settlement to follow. My coworkers went from experienced, efficient, knowledgeable fellows to a DEI gender rainbow of disaster that functioned only due to a few self-motivated anchors that carried the int'l flotsam and jetsam hired to replace retirees and vacancies. I also have had to yank one of these dummies to safety for this exact scenario. I observed him wandering towards a running #1 on a B737-900, as I was waiting to asist this ground crew (inop apu). Guy was walking along wing to place chocks on main gear....
@@davidsmiths5471 Coworkers? Get real. Do you live in a fantasyland where coworkers hold sway over each other? Crewchief has all the responsibilty w/o authority. The management should listen, observe, and then act in such a way that solves the problem.
Courtney may have been standing right next to the guy giving the safety briefing, but she wasn't listening to what he was saying. Considering the other two write ups she had, I can guess her attitude and attention to procedures and rules.
They were outside waiting for plane to pulll up to gate..even with the noise around you, you can still hear...if you choose to listen 😉.@@brinsonharris9816
It’s horrible this happened but this is what happens when you can’t sack people that should be sacked or let go for fear of recrimination from the complainant
She suffered with a difficult and disabling disease but she got up and went to work anyway to take care of her family. I give her a lot of credit for that. Sadly I wish she had been barred from the ramp for what they saw long before her death. There are so many things needing doing in an airport that doesn't consist of walking around an idling rocket. Really well done video, Taking Off, thank you. Edited for spelling.
@@kcgunesq She put herself in that position. Be clear about that. She had MS. She was not stupid, not incapable of making an independent decision to save her life. If she was good enough to hire for the ramp, she was good enough to hire for other positions more suitable to her condition. But it was still her fault. She made a choice that she did not need to make. I don't care what's going on in my life, I'm not going to walk in front of a running aircraft engine for anybody for any reason. But for as long as we do not blame people for creating their own problems, is exactly how long other people are going to have to suffer because of that. People need to take responsibility for their decisions. No, it's not always somebody else's fault! Sometimes it is downright just your own fault! I wish she didn't have to pay for this one with her life. But that's what she did. Yes, there were contributing factors. But ultimately, this boils down to self-preservation and common sense.
@@kcgunesq Of course. YOUR own personal safety should be someone else's responsibility, not your own. Great mentality. The real issue is the DEI policies that are pushed that end up enabling situations like this to happen, and if challenged for performance or safety related issues, are instant grounds for a discrimination lawsuit.
Safety sensitive or not, this is a prime reason pot should not be an over the counter drug. Pot heads are druggies, druggies shouldn’t be working about equipment, period.
As someone recently diagnosed with ADHD, I am constantly seeking complacency. It's too much brainwork to be "on" all the time. I've stream-lined many processes that makes tasks less stressful. But sometimes, things cannot be streamlined and I'm glad I've survived this long breaking many compliances over the years.
I have personal experience with this. Used to work for United at DTW a few years ago. By that point I had been working there for about a year and a half, so I was in that “oh I know what I’m doing” mode, becoming complacent (something you should NEVER DO especially on the ramp). One of our planes came in, an E170. I wasn’t wing walking or marshaling in this flight so I was standing outside of the gate area ready with the chocks and cones for my side. Soon as the plane stopped and I heard the jet bridge bell ringing, signifying it was moving, my brain went into auto pilot. I walked towards the plane, not bothering to check if the movement lights were still on, or if the engine on my side had turned off.
I’m a pretty heavy guy, I think at that time I was about 6’2, 280 pounds. I literally walked DIRECTLY in front of the engine. Had the engine not have been turning off literally seconds before I stepped in front of it, or if I had weighed a little less than what I did, I most certainly would’ve been sucked in. I realized my mistake as soon as I dropped the cone in front of the inlet and kept walking and felt the rushing of air and the cone starting to move around. I quickly dashed to the other side of the engine and yoinked the cone with me.
The ramp is not somewhere to be complacent or to let your brain go into auto mode. You need to constantly be aware of everything that is going on at all times.
Prayers for this woman’s family.
Sometimes I feel like we are in some sort of purgatory, because so many of us have stories where we should have died :s i know i have several. so many miracles
Wow. To me, it seems kind of crazy to me to have people place a cone on the ground in FRONT of a jet engine ?! What is the purpose of the cone - what would it stop anyway ? And a cone could easily be sucked into an engine during startup or shutdown. Seems like an archaic practice maybe from the old piston engine days to try to warn people about the propellers ??? Why would you EVER want to put something on the ground in front of a jet engine SUPER vacuum cleaner ??? Weird lol
I would imagine its a weird mix of if you see it your safe, and if you dont see it your not safe... sort of like, its safe to walk here, but caution. if its not there.... its not safe to go there.
@@KRAM-ct7ok The cones are there to bring attention to points on the aircraft that can be easily hit by ground vehicles. That’s why we put one in front of each engine, at each wing tip, by the tail, and at the front of the plane too if the jet bridge isn’t connected. If the plane is large, like a 787 or A330/340, we place cones at the rear of each engine as well. They are supposed to be placed there AFTER the engine has stopped running and removed BEFORE the engine is turned on again, but me in my apparent random strike of stupidity forgot that fact. 😂
I’m glad you were ok! I work in power plants with large gas turbines and have seen several near misses. It’s so important to never ever become complacent when working with heavy machinery.
6:35 "As she walked towards the tail of the aircraft, she stumbled from the jet blast of the still operating number one engine." That's a very clear warning and reminder to stay clear.
nah..'just windy out here'..sometimes natural selection actually wins!
She was truly a very good-looking young lady. But in the photo of her I see a little defiance. She might have believed she knew better about certain things than her advisors. I cannot actually say. But the rear of an engine might burn her and push her back to safety. But the other end could suck her in and grind her up. I wonder if she understood these things.
Agreed, so then to me it makes zero sense that she would walk só close in front of that same engine almost immediately after that she got sucked in. It seriously makes me think that maybe this wasn't an accident. I mean: the woman has a long-time terminal disease, suffers from cognitive decline ánd is using illegal substances, maybe to ease her pain/suffering? Who is to say that she wasn't already on the brink of thinking that she couldn't go on anymore and walking through that jet wash snapped something in her brain?
The way the narrator describes what the camera captured seems she was acting pretty deliberate to me, especially when she already had that incident with the jet wash just moments before. Why walk a route that takes her só close to an engine that she already has experienced to be running? If it truly was an accident, which is possible, her cognitive decline was só bad that it didn't even register that she was walking towards that same running engine, she shouldn't have been out on that runway. It makes me wonder what the supervisor's report on the accident said.
What are the standards in USA regarding the ground crew. People can make a mistake but airlines must be more strict on who they hire .
@@tjroelsma Thought that also, but every suicide that i know of on ramps they just run right at the engine ! There was one just after this accident! This ramp and management dropped the ball
Thank you for documenting this tragedy with the grace and compassion it deserved
Served 40 years as a crew chief on C130s, four deadly props spinning like crazy. You could never for one second lose track of where and how you were. Not everyone should be around aircraft.
Well, I have always been afraid of those Allison engines. Powerful? Oh yes. Dangerous? Oh yes. Ever had a prop come loose in flight? But I love that airplane.
The danger of open air props is far more obvious.
My father told me about a guy carrying a drop tank on his shoulder. He couldn't see where he was going and walked right into the prop of a P-47.
@@JoeyBlogs007Not really. When still powered, they can be all but transparent.
He’s right. Some people DON’T belong around dangerous machinery.
Everyone makes stupid mistakes and sometimes its the last mistake they make. I have had few brainfarts in my life that could have potentially kill me. Luckily i am still here.
I was a ramp supervisor for Jetblue, we had a new class of employees come in I almost had an identical incident happen. Number 1 side was on, new kid came walking into the ingestion zone he stopped right in front of the idling engine. I was yelling for him to move, he looked at me and the cone he had in his hand was airborne about to pull off the pole he was holding. Kid took a step towards me and I threw him onto the ground. If he hadnt shuffled towards me asking why i was yelling he wouldve been ground beef
What type of aircraft ? I'm surprised that the "little" engine on the Embraer at idle would be powerful enough to suck a person in (?)
Only cattle produces beef buti get your point
That sucks, no pun instead.
Used to be a lead agent for an airline at PHL for 6 years. Never seen anything like you described, but the lack of safety enforcement should have PHL shut down. No one gives a shit and I'm surprised we never had any fatal accidents while I was there. Some ramp agents had a death wish.
Thanks for saving the kid. I dispatch for JetBlue and hear of a lot of stories. Crazy.
How anyone suffering MS and on numbing drugs was allowed to be a ramp worker is beyond belief. Going by her multiple failures of situational awareness it was only a matter of time before she would be harmed. The employer has a lot of answering to do here considering she was already on the radar as being dangerous
She probably was refused disability and wanted to feed her kids.
She's not under obligation to tell her employer of her health issues. The responsibility belongs to HER in knowing her limitations in safely doing her job
She would have begged and pleaded not to be left without a job. That is what they do, seen it happen.
Also, there is an ingrained terror to fire a diversity hire....
@@graceslick705 Your second sentence has a lot of truth to it, but your first sentence is utter BS. Any prospective employee is absolutely required to meet basic fitness requirements for any job - the more dangerous the job the more critical that screening process is. You are most likely badly confusing HIPAA rules for the very real safety requirements of any and every workplace due to your ignorance of the relevant procedures involved.
@@graceslick705 If we live in a world as you explain this incident will happen over and over. I say incident because this was totally avoidable, so it's no accident. She had been reported before as being dangerous. Hopefully from here on rogue, drugged and sick workers on airport ramps will be shown the door. DEI hire has a lot to answer for.
Have been an Aircraft Mechanic for 44 years. The past few years I’ve seen things that prior would be unthinkable. People on their cell phones driving and walking around aircraft. As a mechanic I am subject to random drug testing. Rampers only get test after an incident. They are towing multimillion dollar aircraft with the test only after an incident. Incidents happen daily throughout the industry.
complex systems like these will not survive the competency crisis
Yup
DEI politics are costly and dangerous
@@Daemonarch2k6You dont even know what DEI is judging by this comment.
And they have to hire the "neurodivergent" people for the "Diversity".
"Developmental coordination disorder, dyspraxias, dysphagia, aphasia, *multiple sclerosis,* fibromyalgia, brain inflammation related to PANS are all *examples of neurodivergence".*
*"Under the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, neurodiversity is a protected class. Best practices in DEI require addressing equity and inclusion with neurodivergent individuals just as much as with race, religion, gender, national origin, etc."*
R.I.P. Courtney.
Condolences to family, friends and colleagues.
Commiserations to witnesses.
I don’t work in aviation
I work with tree chippers.
I work for a govt tree crew.
We got a new chipper. One of our employees had a fake arm like a pirate. We told him, he can’t work around the chipper with his fake arm. He said he would sue.
So the management let him work with the chipper. A few months later he was sucked into the chipper and died. A 3yr old should know u shouldn’t work around a chipper in such condition.
UNREAL.
1 less frivolous lawsuit, then.
risk legal issues from getting sued or risk them from allowing a worker who is not fit for work to start which gets them killed or maimed. great.
@@volvojohn9036 I didn’t see him
But they said his head was gone but his lower jaw remained
did he sue?
Marijuana is sometimes used to help medically manage symptoms of multiple sclerosis (MS). With MS one should probably should not have been doing such a job.
DEI quotas.
This was my immediate thought. I have MS myself, and have significant nerve pain. I take a suite of medications to manage the nerve pain and inflammation, one of them a schedule 1, and because of that I am unable to use THC to treat the lesser effects. Unfortunately the FDA and DEA hasn't caught up with "the times" and medical research, THC is far less damaging to the overall health than some of the patent medicines, but if you take one of them you cannot be caught with THC in your system. A "catch 22" situation. But overall, I agree, she should have not been doing such a dangerous job--after all, MS is well known for also causing what's known as "brain fog" which alone should have disqualified her.
She shouldnt have had to work at all in that sort of pain.
But in the US its that or lose your healthcare and end up on the streets for years fighting to get a pittance of disability care.
@@mycosys Your comment is the first one I've found highlighting that she shouldn't have needed to work, rather than she shouldn't have been allowed.
We are losing humanity.
@@pomodorino1766Nearly everyone has some sort of ailment that they could use as an excuse not to work. But we don’t. We plug on every day no matter what, and that’s what American exceptionalism is all about.
This tragedy is little more than the result of DEI policies and rec. pot use.
As someone who has spent the last 30 years in aviation maintenance and operations, I am floored by some of the factors that led to this tragedy. First of all, why on earth would anyone with MS be allowed to work on a flight line? A medical condition that would add to what is already a dangerous environment is unacceptable. Add to that the young woman had already been cited for unsafe conduct, and smoked pot? When I was working on the flight line as a young sailor, even being on an antibiotic would get you dismissed from the duty until you were well. This terrible situation should never have happened.
DEI
So, who's at fault, the employee or the employer? If the airline terminates the employment, or, disciplines the employee in this case, the airline loses a lawsuit. Any women her age has to take some responsibility to protect herself. May she rest in peace, and God bless her children.
Answer to your first question... DEI.
Great question…and I’ll first say I agree with you 100%! I speak as a woman in late fifties with diminishing stability due to severe arthritis. My job was QC Inspector in the const industry at heavy commercial job sites. I removed myself from this environment because I felt my diminishing physical capabilities posed a threat to myself and others. My company placed me in another position off job sites without reduction in pay. I tell you this because they confided in me that they were becoming “concerned” about my well being - but - legal was concerned they’d have a fat lawsuit on their hands because of three things: I’m a woman…I’m “older”…and I have physical disabilities. They were worried about DISCRIMINATION. This pink about it…Courtney was a woman…disabled…and Black. This is the horrifying result of companies being afraid to to what is RIGHT due to fear of legal retribution.
Not “the pink about” 😑 I meant: THINK ABOUT IT 😬
One of my brothers works in Fire & Rescue at the airport - several years ago, during training (in England), he witnessed someone getting killed by a propeller - he still won't talk about it to this day.
How'd you hear about it then? 🤔 Just wondering
@@ufc990 Where appropriate, I will talk about the fatalities that I have witnessed, but will not talk about the severity of the injuries of the deceased.
@@ufc990Seriously?
@@ufc990 He signed it.
Dang, he must be mentally defective.
Bottom line is that she shouldn't have been working in that particular job
I believe her superiors knew she shouldn't be working in that job but wouldn't dare fire her due to her demographic status.
💯 @@KenFullman
Right, she should have been working in the C-Suite.
DEI
@@KenFullman not even that, but many people sue if not hired due to a medical condition, the lawyers say just make a reasonable accommodation or pay millions in a lawsuit.
As a construction worker, I was subject to drug testing on a random basis. I'm surprised that airports, which are arguably more safety critical, don't use that professional protective strategy.
I worked for a software company in 2005 which had random drug testing.
I wouldn't be surprised if airlines didn't want to "waste" money on it, as it can get expensive.
They don't pay those people enough, especially at a regional airline contractor in a smaller city. If they drug tested that often they would have no one working there. Sad, but true. If you want people to value their jobs enough to not risk losing it like that you have to pay them better. Also, drug tests are expensive and this industry is a penny pinching one.
You're an idiot for working for people who violate you in this way
It's a really expensive thing to implement. If there is no federal mandate to do so, then airports aren't going to drug test. The DOT considers "critical safety" in terms of danger to others. That is, a heavy equipment operator or a pilot/driver has the ability to injure many other people through carelessness, therefore they are required to be tested regularly. Ground handling agents typically only injure themselves through carelessness, so there's no need to drug test them. It sounds cruel, but that's the rationale the government uses.
they will never drug test ramp employees because they would have to fire 80% of their people
The job is that bad.
They only drug test you after an “incident” for ex: anything involving company property damage
Sad but true
@kingnick6260 the reason for this is to reduce employer liability. It makes sense but it's not a very proactive approach.
More like 90%.
As a former ramp coordinator and supervisor I was always conducting safety briefings with the crew regarding running engines when APUs were INOP and anything special measures that entailed. After years of handling I moved to maintenance and currently I'm one of the few technicians that go under running engines for troubleshooting purposes and there is nothing to fool around a running jet engine, and must adhere to strict guidelines. During my ramp job I was screened to drugs and alcohol many times but that was a company procedure and not a legal requirement.
Some things to add….after reading the NTSB report, she or her doctor should have removed her from any industrial environment. She lost her eyesight for 2 weeks due to medical issues, would randomly fall or faint, loses control of her hands and feet. She has MS, was diabetic, very obese, and her last doc visit stated she couldn’t perform her job due to MS. NOW, that aside…her blood test showed THC-9 at 7.4ng/mL…that is LEGALLY high. Washington State for an example at 5nm you get a DUI. While there are many issues why this lady should have been removed from the job due to medical issues, the fact was she was coming down from smoking weed and was high. Side note, I still can’t believed OSHA fined the airline for “safety lapses” for a employee that got high off weed and then walked into a running engine.
Very obese? No wonder the engine spit her out the front?
At the same time, gravity was on her side, or so it seemed?
OSHA doesn't care. They always fine the employer.
Getting that first leg pulled into the engine probably ruined her buzz
And people say weed doesn't kill. I've talked to forklift operators who say they purposefully smoke in order to remain concentrated.
@@qrstw so stupid. I've used weed, its just as bad as alcohol
As a ramp worker myself for ups. I could never imagine being high while working It's so dangerous as is!!!
Sadly in my working experience I find that there are people who simply cannot be disciplined and refuse to follow procedures that they do not agree with...Even worse is when the people get promoted and then often get praised for their "Getter Done" mentality and corner cutting...
You can indeed do it wrong and get away with it endless times....But you can only not get away with it once...
Those folks have NO PLACE on an aircraft ramp. Jet engines are GIANT vacuum cleaners, and props will turn you into hamburger. Even the prop from a Cessna 182! Iv'e seen idiots trying to hand prop an un-chalked aircraft. It did not turn out well for them. THINK people!
@@cynthiak3376
un-chocked, I assume?
My career hasn't brought me within ten miles of aircraft operations, and I can assure that this is universal across all industries. There are a lot of people who shouldn't be allowed out of their homes.
@stevebell4906 - I wish I could "thumbs up" your comment a thousand times.👍👍👍👍
I believe the technical term for it is "Normalisation of Deviance".
I really appreciate the manner you reported this information! You are so correct about the difficulty in self policing cognitive impairment. Regardless of the circumstances, a young mother’s life ended tragically too soon and you treated her story with the dignity she deserved. Thank you!
My dad was with the RAF and he worked on the fix the engines on the airfield. This was back in the 60’s and one working day himself and a couple of other lads got to working on a smaller plane, couldn’t tell you what type it was. The propellers were started up and one of the lads who my dad was best buddies with backed up into the rotating propeller and yeah, instant boom. My dad was cover in his best friend’s body bits. Poor guy and it messed my dad up for years. 😮💨 poor lady.
You wouldn't believe how close this comes to happening all the time. If we get to the gate and have to leave an engine running and wait for ground power, I cringe waiting. I dread a ramper who may be new, tired or borderline experiencing heat stroke, dropping their guard and walk in front of that engine. Its a painful wait for that ground power. This only happens when the APU is inoperable, because if it is working, I get that left engine off ASAFP.
Why not shut down the left engine and keep the right one running instead?
@@DragonPhlyy because no one knew that she was going to walk in front of the left engine.
@@DragonPhlyy generally we shut down the right engine first. One reason is because the cargo doors are on that side so the odds are even higher someone will walk in front of the right engine to open the forward cargo door. There is nothing on the left side. Even still, people randomly do what this girl did, and walk in front of the left engine while heading back toward the front of the plane.
What are the disadvantages of shutting all turbines down and just run on battery power while waiting for ground power?
@@jonesjones7057 I see the cargo door argument but they "should" not be approaching the aircraft until the engine is shuut down but someone will approach the aircraft while the engine is running from the left side to plug in the GPU. I Guess Im just thinking since the GPU needs to be plugged in while the Engine is running why not shut down the engine that is on the same side as the GPU?
As someone who's worked on a US Aircraft Carrier on the deck during flight ops, it's extremely dangerous during normal situations, weather, night ops, etc. She was 100% responsible for her life! She had no business being a Ramp Agent under her personal circumstances!
I have had a lot of people ask if Submarine Duty was really dangerous - I have always said the fight deck of an aircraft carrier is the most dangerous duty I am aware of - I also said that to my grandson when he enlisted and thought of serving on one - he is currently serving on his second attack sub - Smart kid
@@artbobik3516 Agreed, flight deck is the most dangerous and your grandson is a smart kid. DBF.
DEI hire
Why did it take NTSB two years to figure out the cause of the accident being MS and THC?
Why do they need to have a special meeting to handle this aircraft on the ground? All employees were already trained to work around the airplanes on the ramp, unless this was a special case.
What was the rush to send a ground crew to secure a broken aircraft before turning off all the engines?
She probably was disoriented after breathing posienes exhaust gasses from the engine blast.
A woman with 3 children and a known disease should be collecting disability and not walking around dangerous machines. She was driving to work and working normally and safely until the day of the accident, and most employees get a notice from their employers at some point, and she was among thousands of other unlocky people who were killed by running engines and props.
In my opinion the airport was working with the airliner to save money by rushing the ground handling, and also the pilot should allow a running engine a few meters from the exit door door.
@@ShonMardani Were you listening to the video? They did write up the report and she signed it. She knew she was about to get fired if she didn't clean herself up. She was definitely not working normally and safely up until that point.
No, the engine blast did not disorientate her with fumes. She was already out of it and that's why she was even in the jet blast to begin with. She was so out of it that she went from being waved off by the pilot after the jet blast incident only to decide to repeat the same behaviour, in front of the engine this time.
And yes, the safety huddle is a short safety briefing to remind people of the extreme dangers they are working in and address any new information or concerns, like that an engine was going to be running on this aircraft. They are done in every single industry for this reason, every single day and every single new and dangerous situation. Clearly you've never worked in a dangerous environment.
Lastly, just because she had MS doesn't mean she was useless and should be on disability. That is so insulting and near-sighted. Disability doesn't cut it when you have 3 kids anyway. And I'm sure she had dreams of some kind of career. But we should just stuff handicapped people into their homes and say stay there? Wow. I surely hope you are under the age of 15. I have never heard such absolute ignorance of reality in anyone older than that.
Tragic, but 100% avoidable. She had NO business being anywhere near an aircraft.
Made me wonder whether company "encourages" people to work who are feeling unwell.
She was literally warned that her job was in jeopardy.
There's not enough safeguards in place. It needs to be safe on the worst day
@@SianaGearzI mean it sounds like the options were 1) firing her because she can no longer perform her job safely because of the effects of MS or 2) letting her continue to work despite diminished capacity. Both options suck.
I do wonder why they kept her with those issues and mentally addled drugs. No disrespect, I assume she was pain managing, but why hire her, and keep her on?
Been around aircraft as ramp service and chief for 25 years. Seen many a person hurt. One new employee walked behind #1 engine to chalk rear wheel on a 737. His first day of work. He was out for 6 months recovering from broken collar bone and clavicle as he tumbled head over heel from the jet blast. He was dubbed "tumbleweed" from then on and never shook his nickname the total time I was at that station.
Worked at station where a ramp agent walked into a running propeller. Split her in two from shoulder to naval. Watched her gurgle her last breath with blood flowing from mouth and body.
Also, volunteered to work a station in Norfolk Virginia to cover the ramp so personnel could attend the funeral of a fellow ramper who was killed during a pushback accident. She had been disemboweled. She was killed when the towed bar disconnected during pushback and push tractor lurched into the front nose cone of MD80 aircraft causing the steering wheel to collapse into her. She was driving.
I can honestly say that this scenario with running wing mounted engines was drilled into us of not walking in front ir rear of running engines. Posters in break rooms, ops etc if "Don't get sucked in" were posted at all 8 stations i worked. It was common knowledge from day 1. She should have had a wakeup call when she felt the jetblast causing her to remember engine 1 running. Sad.
So many other injuries ive seen, lost leg and a couple of broken backs to name a few. Be safe!
Sounds like an unsafe ramp and poor training! Who trains a person to put chokes on a aircraft their first day!
@davidsmiths5471 oh he was told what to do and didn't follow the instructions. People were yelling at him as he moved away from where he was supposed to go but of course too much noise, he continued. It only took a second and off he was tumbling. At our station, we normally didn't work 737 but this was a drop in and he was verbally told not to move in until engines off. It happened.
@@andrewhendrickson334tumbleweed!
I just retired from AA after over 40 years as an A/P mechanic working on the ramp and in the hangers, and I don't think people understand just how dangerous working around these oversized hoover vacuum cleaners can be. Some of the old style low bypass jet engines of the 60's and 70's had stators in front of the 1st stage fan blade that POSSIBLY could stop you from being pulled all the way through the engine and spit out the back. These did not. You WILL NOT survive if you get sucked into one of these high-bypass engines, even if it's idling.
I was shocked to hear she wasn't pulled all the way through and was ejected out the front. I pray for whomever had to witness that, or see the aftermath. Had this been the larger CFM engines used on the larger narrow body Boeing or Airbus aircraft, more than likely they would be picking up her remains with tweezers.
To all you young people that want to work in this industry, it's very rewarding, and the pay is good, and the benefits are too, but also realize being complancient on the ramp can cost you your life, as it did this young lady. You'd be amazed how many 'close calls' I've seen during my career - and deaths.
where are you working where the pay and conditions for airport workers is good? I've never heard anything positive about it.
@@lewis8325 mainline is where the money is, whether you're flight crew or maintenance. Commuters don't pay the same.
THIS...1000% this!!!!
I am fully, fully aware of the dangers. And is why I will never, ever step foot on a ramp, tarmac, or anything that an airplane is sitting on. Cause I ain't stupid. How could anyone not see a running engine as dangerous to walk in front of? It's baffling.
Charles Taylor award ?
Your presentation was both well done and respectful. Kudos. You sir are a class act…
Yes very respectful more so than the first guy.
I have a friend who has MS. She's on disability because she can't work and has to us3 a wheelchair frequently. She speaks of "cog fog" and about a tiredness that no amount of rest or sleep will fix.
Thanks for getting the full story out to everyone.
Far too many of these kinds of things sweep things under the rug to spare family members feelings rather than focus on educating everyone of the real causes of accidents.
Absolutely. Condolences to the family of course but the most important thing is to find out what happened, as that tells you what you need to change to make sure it doesn't happen again.
How about mentioning disabled people in so much pain they cant think straight shouldnt HAVE to work jobs like this, especially not in the richest country in history.
But if she lost her job, she lost her cover, and probably her home and any way to support her family. If shes lucky after a few years homeless with her family she might get through legal appeals for disability cover.
@@mycosysThis society's priorities are seriously messed up.
@ She didn’t have to work around machinery. Plenty of other jobs for people that lack the attention to detail to safely work in dangerous environments.
We already have half the population that doesn’t actually contribute enough to even pay their share of operating the country. Now you want to let a bunch of self-diagnosed “disabled”people not work and instead get paid to sit on their asses and smoke pot?
@@mycosys does she not have freedom to choose her job? She was also smoking weed on the job
Thanks for the update because the media won’t follow up on anything
Except for, Trump is a racist.
I liked your video. I retired from this airline just before this happened. The noise of this of this engine is so tremendous when close enough to get pulled in that the NTSB explanation sounds correct .
As a person with a disability in a Right to Work State, I don't tell anyone that I have a disability because its an automatic flag to fire me ASAP. As a person with a disability, I'd need to work full time for healthcare insurance to be able to afford my medications.
This is why I fought for four years to get SSDI (disability). No, it's not ideal, but I was losing my ability to work and thus my needed healthcare insurance. Luckily, my mom let me live here, and I now pay her rent in thanks. Otherwise, I'd be unmedicated living under a bridge. I'm now struggling to leave this state to get the healthcare I need. The south is evil for a reason.
The human factor isn't taken account of. It's not normal that healthcare is a business. I'm glad to live in a country where I don't have to worry about it. I think American people deserve better. Instead of bullying other countries, they should take care of their own people. Being a wealthy nation don't mean anything when 1% of the population holds everything.
Having MS and an affinity for THC is incompatible with being able to safely execute the responsibilities of being an aircraft ramp agent.
THC is an accepted treatment for MS.
maybe it was the melanin? 🤔
Alternatively, people still need to work and MS already removes a lot of labor options… perhaps the FAA should tighten the medical restrictions or drug test ramp workers. If this country treated those suffering from life-altering disabilities like MS better, then maybe these types of situations wouldn’t happen. Sadly, because of where we are with MS research, THC remains one of the best MS pain management drugs.
I know this is completely anecdotal, however I’ve known three people who were able to get off of heavy duty pain medications with the help of THC. It’s definitely a trade off when it comes to effects though.
Depends on the individual.
Some people can be fucking dying and still perform decently but others, when they get mentally fatigued, it all just goes bad quickly
@@TitaniumTurbine She could have worked in a whole lot of other positions that truly were not 'safety sensitive'. They could have transferred her to a department that she could handle. I'll have to watch this video again to see if the employer even knew she had MS. Maybe they didn't? Since it wasn't classified as a 'safety sensitive' position, maybe they didn't ask and she didn't offer that up? It's not required, I don't think, to state your exact medical condition unless it is incompatible to the job. And she'd be the only one to know that. If she withheld her MS from them, then...wow, that's another level of deceit.
Still, the lack of being classed as a 'safety sensitive' position really restricted what the company could do to keep people safe. It means no drug testing and no medical or fitness acknowledgements that might impact safety in that position. I hope they've addressed that. The whole thing is just shocking.
This is why I always move over or stop for broken down vehicles on the road. Someone involved with the breakdown might unknowingly walked right on to road in front of you because they forgot for a moment were they were in relation to the road. We all have had moments like this better to be safe.
It even the law in many states, but that doesn't stop arrogant drivers from blowing past stopped vehicles, breaking the law, and endangering everyone in their vicinity.
❤
This means you are smart and aware. I wish everyone shared that trait.
People's experiences obviously provide responsible reactions which is the very reason that guidance thru common practices have actually been written into Mandatory rules of the Road, in more and more State's and jurisdiction. Washington State sets a good example.
RCW 46.61.212
Emergency or work zones-Approaching-Penalty-Violation.
I really appreciate such common sense issues being enforced ! Professional Driver's have shown incredible and inspirational skills in my Law Enforcement Career. Nowadays it's far to easy for Motorists to drive safely with all the electronic devices, and even food, and beverages diverting their attention. I've been on the Roadside, actually far away from the white painted line commonly called "The Fog Line" ... I was in a Police Patrol Car, which was Brand New... Only 200 actual miles on it... And was decked out in a very stunning selection of a UltraHD LightBar, Wig-wags, and corner-edge strobes . I performed a traffic stop on a vehicle which performed an unauthorized entrance onto a State Highway. My Vehicle was placed at a reasonable angle to provide protection and cover for the both of our vehicles. I had requested and received vehicle documents, commonly requested, and as I had just closed my Driver's door... I was struck by a vehicle which had been forced into my vehicle at 60+ Miles Per Hour. My Chest immediately struck the Center Equipment Rack, and Fortunately for me, My Ballistic Vest and it's Trauma Plate saved me from a more physically damaging issue. I was scrambling back to make sure the other occupants of the vehicle I had just contacted, were not injured. Which was Fortunately the case. End result was an incredible story for several hundred Motorists driving slowly by with mouths moving obviously saying "WTF" happened there... I'll end the story with an extreme thanks, for My Ballistic Vest, the Amazing Ford Pursuit Vehicle... And a Great State Patrol Professional, Trooper Hinton... God Was Truly in Charge ! 🙏
Please Please Please !!! Pay Attention while Driving ! And have an Amazing Holiday Season... #ARRIVE_ALIVE
YOU MATTER !!!
@@Deekedthose where the days when you didn’t want to be the one who doesn’t move to the far lane when passing.
Therefore, paying attention to what is going on around you was the norm when you drive.
Driving Thanksgiving weekend Sunday was painful with more than one handful of accidents. It was excruciating. 😢
I don't understand why Piedmont was fined. It seems to me they did everything they were supposed to do, they did two briefings and had her on a couple write ups for previous incidents. What more could they have done?
I agree, but I think OSHA’s issue was on enforcement of the policies.
@@I_Am_Your_Problem _Any other dumb questions?_
Yes actually, okay, so you don't allow her to be employed in positions that could cause accidents. Do you also support her having decent social security so she doesn't have to do such work?
Do you have any empathy here?
Do you think that maybe some additional training could have helped?
What about drug testing?
Looking forward to your answers and hopefully you'll learn some manners on the way.
Kept her off the tarmac and let HR worry about it from there. They followed all the proper HR procedures, did the briefings, did the right ups. Did the retraining. The one thing they didn’t do was pull her out of the danger zone.
@@gdwnet Oh, please. Shall we make excuses for everyone? I don't. There's not enough time and money to take care of foolish people.
I am responsible for the consequences of my actions. So are you. So was she.
@@gdwnet um, that's completely jackass comment. It's completely irrational. If you can't do the job properly according to the guidelines and requiements, you don't belong in the job. Once a person has had a couple warnings or write-ups, they don't belong in the position as they present hazard to themselves and everyone else including the aircaft engines and company. No empathy for incompetence. Much empathy for others who suffered this horrible event.
My deepest condolences to the lady's family, especially her parents and children 😢
There was a go fund me set up for Courtney’s family after the accident. I don’t know if it’s still active. I don’t know her, or many ramp agents personally, but as an airline pilot these people have my utmost respect. They work in heat, cold, rain, and snow to keep airliners moving, for very little money, and not nearly enough respect.
Regardless of someone’s life choices and physical disabilities, no one should ever go to work, and not return to their loved ones at the end of their shift. I wish nothing but the best for Courtney’s family. I never met her, but she was part of my workplace, extended family, of which there are thousands of members scattered around the US and the world.
Why does her family want money for her negligence??
@@catherinethemba Humans only here please. Really tired of talking to sociopaths online .
@@catherinethembaSomeday you’ll have a moment or longer of inattention. Hopefully it doesn’t cost you your life.
Regardless of the medical conditions and life choices Courtney made, her children had no control over that, and it doesn’t take much grace to understand they will face challenges ahead.
@@catherinethembashe was a single mom with 3 children who still need care and did nothing wrong. As well as funeral expenses. Both things can be true ya know, she may have acted negligently or been her fault but still deserves empathy and compassion for her and her family after suffering a violent death. Geez.
@@jdub6521 Thanks for being compassionate. The world needs more empathetic people. 🙂
I have MS and at least in my case, by the time i was done with the "flare up," I knew I was cognitively impaired. I knew something had happened, I couldn't sit still and read, as I now had trouble concentrating. I had mild aphasia. It sucked. Just so you know, a lot of people with MS smoke weed for pain relief. It's not as strong as the stuff the doctor may prescribe. I'm not saying that a person medicating with marijuana should work near airplanes, they shouldn't, as this case shows. A lot of people with MS won't admit to it, for fear of losing their jobs.
Thank you, the accident makes a little more sense now. She was trained about the dangers of jet engines, she was briefed that this particular plane would come in with the engines running and must be handled differently, she walked behind the running engine and stumbled from its blast, then she walked in front of it anyway. I could not understand how anyone would be that stupid. Perhaps she was having an MS flare up that was mentally incapacitating.
True, at some point self preservation has to take over, the will to live during a dangerous situation, she gambled and lost big time
Very true, but it’s also about self preservation,
I was considering that too. If she was tolerant to a certain amount of weed on a daily or regular basis to cope with MS, the amount in her system at the time of this incident might reflect this tolerance level. They'd have to find out more about her usage habits to determine that.
Here in Canada we are more accepting of using weed for medical purposes, so it's not like it's a surprise that someone with MS would use it for that. It is legal everywhere in Canada too, with some restrictions of course (unless you live in lower mainland, BC where people have been growing weed on their patios in plain view since forever and nobody ever cared, lol). But we do have some pretty strict rules regarding working and driving with THC in your system. Not allowed anywhere, especially in the oilfield and trucking industries and regarding Graduated Drivers Licensing. Random and regular drug screening is something they don't slack on. I'm shocked that it is not required for ramp workers BECAUSE it is not considered "safety sensitive". Is that a US thing since this was a US company?
I feel like because her employer already knew about her MS (assuming they did) and her lax work ethic but still did not fire her, this might have led her into a false sense of job and safety security. So perhaps in her mind, if she wasn't yet fired, then it must be all good...carry on as usual? Or did she work with a Union who usually make it really, really difficult for an employer to fire someone? Did she feel her job was protected to a certain extent by the Union, also giving her a false sense of security in her employment status? Or did she go to work knowing she was unfit but knew she was already towing the line with that report so better go to work anyway? If they had just done drug screening...they could have fired her on the spot and saved her life. A missed opportunity. Safety is WHY we do drug screening in the first place. The only reason.
Even so, ultimately she is the only one capable of recognising when she is in over her head and when it's time to just stay home to deal with her MS stuff rather than taking weed to cope and still go to work in this particularly dangerous place.
I just hope the airline has revised the "safety sensitive" classification and its hiring and training practices since then. Maybe reviewed who else they have on staff who might be in a similar position without them realising it.
Yes. And the treatments for MS are very expensive: losing one's medical insurance (due to job loss) is a major hazard. So she likely had multiple incentives to cover up, especially since she was (apparently) providing for her children. Another good reason for universal health care...
Back in the 90’s I was checking in to Memphis Naval Station. I noticed a guy with cuts and bruises all over his arms and head. He was the lucky Sailor that was sucked into a jet engine and survived. He lost his helmet and it fodded out the engine before he did.
If you are not joking I have seen that video
Think that was an A-6 when that happened. I was stationed on the USS Lexington in the 80's and witnessed someone get hit with jet blast from an A-4 at full power ready to launch and he was thrown up against the JBD. He was shaken up and taken to medical but never heard the extent of injuries.
Nope. The guy told me he was sucked into an engine.
Nope, true story.
@@Palmstreet-u7x his cranial saved his backside.
No drug test? That’s absolutely insane.
Wait she refused to sign a write-up 4 months before this? This is weird. Every company I've ever worked for or even heard of refusal to sign a write-up is mandatory termination.
I have personally refused to sign one before and not been terminated for it. the end result was the exact same whether I signed it or not
It was for appearance. Maybe it would have been different if it was safety related
He said it was for appearance so I wouldn't be surprised if one day she was too tired to shower or dress the "right" way and so she didn't sign it because the requirements wouldn't even affect work. I wouldn't be surprised if before that happened she had to take on extra shifts at the last second to cover someone else too
They are absolutely allowed to refuse to sign, this is extremely common. The issuing party simply notes on the document that the recipient individual refused to sign. Not a terribly big issue, actually.
@@zebraloverbridget Your grossly irresponsible story inventions are bizarrely tasteless insults to all involved in that horrible tragedy. Grow up.
I appreciate the thoroughness of your debrief, nicely done! It is a sad tragedy that could have been avoided.
Jet Engine Mechanic here, When working on or around Aircraft especially running engines, Don’t get STONED or Drunk (Should be Common Sense) especially if you have a medical condition like M.S. In my opinion, there’s nobody to blame except her and what a tragedy it is because now her children don’t have a mother.
Not reporting to work stoned or drunk seems like good advice for any profession.
The toxicology report revealed EVIDENCE of THC, but her level of impairment WAS NOT DETERMINED. We all know THC is detectable for weeks after use by many screenings, so there's no evidence presented here that indicates she was stoned. She could have ingested marijuana the night (or even days) before and been perfectly sober on the tarmac.
Blame the [unaccountable] government that forced them to hire her.
I just can’t believe that she walked in front of a running engine. I have heard of people walking into spinning propellers and again it amazes me.
One would think that they were trained not to get sucked into an airplane engine.
@@troy3456789 there's always one like you in every comment section sadly. Low pay lack of training limits the labor hiring numbers
I visited the local Air National Guard base a few years back and got to go in the hush house where they test the engines. The amount of air this building pulled through it was incredible. The outside is covered in perforated steel but the vacuum the engine pulls stuck us to the walls. It was impressive and sobering to be near that level of power. I guess if you're around them every day, you might forget how powerful jet engines are, but I won't soon forget
I worked with airplanes in the 80s -90s. A powerplant engineer at a client airline had two mechanical arms. Old style with cables and pincers. He got sucked into the engine of an old 737-200. His body stopped at the engine inlet but his arms didn’t. Jet blast blew another guy into the blast wall during an engine test.
Feels so bad for her , her family & the poor people who had to recover her remains & clean up the mess . That's something no one could ever forget.
Clear concise and no excessive editing. Thank you.
I am still stuck on the Airline failing to maintain the APU to perform the operation safely in the first place. It seems completely insane to keep a jet running at the dock. i have come down ramps and hear the engine cranked right up and think wow, that sounds aggressive. And also planes have managed to continue to navigate and fly safely in the case of fuel starvation to the main engines or other causes of engine failure. Safely in the sense that they are able to perform emergency measures correctly with the systems still running by APU.
As far as the lady. Simply poor management, nothing more. Why can't airlines strive to be proud of a great safety record, as they used to do, instead of just having profit motives always taking precedence..
I saw a video of this happening to a man years ago. That sight will never leave my mind it was so horrible.
There was a video, not a fake one, that showed what was left. It's something you want to unwatch.
Complacency is so very sinister. Thank you for the video and emphasizing the need for awareness and positive actions to avoid complacency.
A running jet engine is very very loud on the ramp. This is not complacency.
I don't think Courtney was complacent. She was defiant. But someone was probably complacent, or she would not have had her job.
You’re welcome
Her head wasn't in the game. Ever.
Then it was in the game.
@@danielocarey9392 I don't think Courtney was complacent OR defiant. I think she was floating on a marijuana cloud and not quite all there. Working the ramp you can become numbed to the sound and fury going on around you. Ask me how I know.
I hope this doesn’t come off too harsh but when you’re working around dangerous equipment, you need to have your you know what wired to your head some people just don’t have the reflexes and attention span to be around dangerous equipment
not harsh at all. Society has gone all oatmeal mushy and MyLittlePony mentality.
Agree to a certain point! But this ramp and management had to know about her health and maybe drug use!
You are correct. As an airline ramp trainer, I have had trainees quit after classroom phase as they were introduced to the flightline and driving bag tugs (with a trainer) They could not handle the aviation environment and just quit.
@@misterx4088 Do you think they had these briefings? Reason being,2 out of four didn't follow the briefings
@@davidsmiths5471 Yes and yes. No info on other wingwalker.If #2 not running, right WW probably assumed okay (disregarding beacon) Even at idle, engine pushes out a lot of exhaust laden air that is horrible to breath (another reason not to approach until spool down with beacon off) Daydreaming? Complacent? Heard-it-all-before and nothing happened? Know-it-all? No respect for authority of crew chief (who is responsible for all that occurs at gate) Certain populations don't like instruction from another certain type of population and ACTIVELY disregard obvious important information because THEY resent the dynamic. I do not know others involved in this case. I was called a racist (after the fact to my manager) by a guy who transferred in from another station, just off an injury and had only 3 months experience, who I never even met. He incofrrectly chocked the main gear and I caught it as he was walking off and immediately corrected right then and there. I was accussed of being a racist because I yelled at him. I spoike LOUDLY due to the environment, not because of his skin color! Guy tried to get me fired! He was worthless and seemly tolerated because of short staffing. Maybe he changed. I hope he did. While I was there, he and others like him would disregard SOPs and wander up as a/c taxing into gate and f up preplanning because did not know what was being prioritized for offload-onload. These types were untouchable and were warm bodies most of the time.
Great video. I worked airline ramps for 30 years. The story was just shocking.
As a former ramp agent were always told when the power has to be connected before both engines turns off before the plane landed... which means you only need to chock the nose gear.. she was sadly in her own world on several occasions but this time she wondered into the danger zone too closely... Condolences.
So as a alleged ramper your just going to watch a coworker get killed like these rampers did
I used to be a ramp agent for Delta at LAX. We temporarily had a hard stand area for the RJ’s when we switched from T5 to T2 back in 2017. One time a E175 came in and the ticket agent decided to help us and put the cone in front of the #1 engine. She didn’t wait for it to spool down and her umbrella got sucked into the engine. She stood there screaming and pulling on it. One of my co workers close by grabbed her by the back of her jacket and pulled her back. Nobody got hurt, but the engine was destroyed.
Unbelievable how close to a gruesome death she was. It’s staggering that people with so little understanding of the dangers surrounding them are allowed anywhere near an airport ramp.
Ramper
@@RichardS-qh8mi Wouldn't you say it's staggering a company lets people that close to an airplane without proper training to be that close.
@@tm5123 Personally, if non ramp trained staff enter the ramp area I believe it should be instant dismissal.
@@RichardS-qh8mi Agree 100%. Untrained people should not be in areas of dangerous machinery without training or a guide, it's a massive monetary, insurance and bodyily harm risk.
I remember an airliner that suffered a gear malfunction in one of the main gears. The pilot attempted getting the gear down by applying G force.
In the end the pilot was forced to land without one wheel. No one was hurt but the plane was damaged as were the nerves of all aboard.
Turns out a ramp worker had placed wheel calks in the wheel well, then forgot it.
When the pilot raised the gear it stowed properly, but the chalk fell into place to lock the door shut.
I remember when this happened, the pilots at ORD didn’t even want to turn the engines on until after we had completely finished pushing them out after this happened. This is the sad result of complacency like he said. Safety is always paramount to anything on the ramp.
Rest in peace Courtney from a fellow ramp rat
I mean this sounds like the answer, no?
Everything has to be dumbed down now to accommodate the lowest common denominator....i.e. education, etc. This is how you destroy a civilization.
Excellent assessment
This seemed to me to be a balanced report with good conscience and empathy. Someone who - to me - has noticable difficulty reading out loud harrowing information is useful to listen to.
Thankyou
I know. She had mouths to feed. People never think that it will happen to them, though. Alcohol, marijuana, and other drugs, do not belong around dangerous mechanical equipment. And especially cell-phones.
This chap is very clear and professional.
One of the best info videos I have seen. No bait and switch.
Very well presented, but what a sad story. Spent six years in the Navy Air working around aircraft on the ramp when I was a youngster and thankfully survived. Dangerous place to be and that was on my mind every day, every hour, every minute and every second.
Horribly presented. This guy constantly sucks in his mouth and releases a kiss sound while talking.
RIP ma'am.❤ condolences to your extended family end up with and loved ones.
Thinking of her 3 children. May their mother Rest In Peace.
LOL
.....pieces...
GOD sits high and looks low.
Maybe the three dads will step up and be responsible for their children.
@@kixigvak scummy comment, but you are who you are
Im a little past 5 years at UPS on the sunrise shift (2am start) Previous shifts have allowed wingwalkers to carry tail, wing, and engine cones with them when bringing in the aircraft so that they would not need to walk back to the nose of the aircraft, grab the cones and then head back out to place them in order to "save time", most shifts stopped this practice as wingwalkers were walking out into jet blast as they weren't paying attention and were working on muscle memory. Our shifts practice has been once the aircraft is stopped the wing walkers take a long arc outside of the aircraft perimeter back to the T or nose position where the cones, chocks, GPU and other equipment is kept during block in. The supervisor gives the okay one minute after the engines are cut and it is safe to work on the aircraft. This eliminates "bad" muscle memory and replaces it with a "safer" routine.
As for drug test policy I believe it is only after the job offer and after an injury, but it depends on fed/state/union policies/agreements.
Tug drivers driving behind the aircraft while engines are running is currently an issue as tug drivers are driving like they are on the 15 freeway. Cones, chocks, personnel and even aircraft aren't enough to slow down or make them take a different route. we've had drivers drive though our cones, nearly hit our stairs and weave through our crew actively trying to bring an aircraft onto the gate because their empty ULD absolutely needs to be on the other side of the ramp in the next minute -_-. I do believe it will be one of our next big injuries unfortunately.
Thanks for the info. You talking about Canada? Doubt it. But this incident did happen in Canada, even if owned by a US company.
I was a ramp instructor for two years straight. Every three weeks, we had a new class, and sometimes a holdover from the previous class who needed more attention. I didn't realize how stressful it was until I quit doing it, and moved into a safety auditor role.
I believed in "Having the courage to speak up" about personnel, or policy, but very seldom would the higher-ups take heed. This kind of accident was always my worst fear, not only for the individual and family, but for those who witnessed it. I don't know how anyone could return to the ramp, having experienced such an event.
I wanted to be able to sleep at night, knowing I had made my concerns clear to management. It's all I could do. Terribly tragic!
It would not be that difficult to build the planes to have a retractable screen that gets put in place in front of the engines once reverse thrust opps are finished. Then, at departure during taxi they could be stowed.
@@danielocarey9392I am just not sure how something like that would work.
Oh I am sorry, I just thought of how it could work. A heavy screen would be affixed to the front of the engine and if you get pulled in you wouldn’t get into the fan…
I am sure some engineer will tell me how something like that would not be good for an aircraft engine.
If you are talking about something that would be placed on the engine that wouldn’t have worked here on a plane that had just landed.
I totally agree with you on that. I was a crew chief who would speak up and management would not take heed. I ended up switching to a different department.
@@danielocarey9392how do you know that it wouldn't be difficult? Unless you design aircraft engines, you're making assumptions.
As a safety professional in manufacturing, I worked for a couple of very good companies, mostly safety was not taken seriously enough. Production volumes nearly always come before safety.
I have only today come across your channel but I must say I am immediately impressed by your cool, non-click batey approach to aviation issues. I subscribe to Mentour Pilot and Everyday Astronaut amongst others as I have a broad interest in all things space and aviation and your channel is a welcome addition to my list. Looking forward to going back over some of your earlier content, Happy New Year!
I was a f16 f117 crew chief and we had drug testing all the time. This is nuts....
Did the airline know she had MS? Not sure why an airline would allow someone with MS to work in that sort of a position!
Some hide it
Good question. Didn’t see that answered in the docket (but I could’ve missed it)
They wouldn't have known unless she told them. Ground employees don't have to pass annual physicals to keep the job.
@@pi.actualwait, really? That's a rather active and demanding job to not have minimum levels of fitness. (Not saying you're wrong, I'm just surprised)
These days is discrimination to ask almost anything except your name 🤣🤣🤣
Over 20 years ago I had to go to the airport and pick up cargo. Things like blood, tissues, organs, and bank work. There were two companies that services the planes but no one to pick up cargo(at night). I had to drive out to the plane and usually tie down the plane so it wouldn't lift up and down on my van. I learned what to do to be safe but I bumped my head on things under the wing. I'm never drove out there until all engines were turned off.
Good film, and the first one of yours I have seen. One part of my previous job involved inspecting an overhead crane that was so old it had open conductors rather than insulated ones. When I had a trainee I would show them the crane and explain the dangers that 600 VDC and 100 A presented. My point was that you never turn your back on something dangerous and always [unless you are stepping off a cliff] step forwards first.
I hope that I still do this, but it only takes one time to forget to pay the price.
How did she pass a physical with her medical issues? She was unfit to work in that job.
Sounds like it was totally her own fault and she was stoned. I don't think her company should have been fined.
Diet is a huge component. females should be eating 12-15 eggs a week to get enough cholesterol intake, men should be eating two dozen per week.
Over the past fifty years, cholesterol and eating eggs have been demonized, but the brain is 70% cholesterol, and the myelin sheath around nerves is mostly cholesterol
at the age of 50, i've now switched mostly to an animal-based diet because plants HAVE NO ANIMAL CHOLESTEROL.
Anyone you know with tremors or any neurological condition needs to be prescribed more egg YOLKS to restore their supply of cholesterol.
Eggs should be a mandatory part of our diet, and vegetarians and vegans are absolutely screwed.
You have no idea how many of my patients, when queried, say they are vegetarian, and that they "don't like" the taste of meat or eggs.
Complete woke nonsense.
The company was fined because although they had a good drug testing policy to prevent this sort of thing from happening, they weren't actually following the policy and they weren't drug testing people. Hence the fine, because having a good safety policy is pointless if you aren't following it.
She shouldn't have been allowed to work in that job based on her medical history alone.
The cannabis may or may not have had a significant contribution, you don't know that, neither does anyone else.
Many MS sufferers find that using cannabis helps to reduce their symptoms. That said, such a high dose as this woman had is not necessary for the benefits. An intoxicating dose is not necessary for the benefits.
@vink6163 ah yeah that makes sense thanks for that 👍
@@antonystringfellow5152they’re not allowed to ask her about any pre existing medical conditions…would be discriminatory and they would be sued….they’re just supposed to hire ….but also, get sued….Courtney FAILED Courtney
Can't ignore it when someone smarter than you tells you that something is dangerous.
She was the most intelligent blaque wueenz on da globes. Listen when she speaks. Spoke. Whatever.
Actually ignoring people smarter than themselves is modus operandi for at least 50% of US voters... at least this time the stupids couldn't steal another election.
@@theothertoolboxyou’re a real angry little man aren’t you, vile comment history
People hate intelligence. They will purposefully disobey because they need to be right.
They should have found her something else to do. I can't believe that someone who is allowed to work on the flight line isn't held to a stricter standard.
If you knew how many burnouts were making circuit boards for airplanes in the early '80's, you'd never have stepped foot on an airplane.
@@aprilkurtz1589 Working on a circuit board isn't going to kill you in a split second. There's time to check your work as well as peer review. Which only adds to the point they should have just found her something else to do. I'm sure there are jobs that don't involve walking around an active jet engine.
What standards would be required? Mind u this is a low level job. The potential danger of the aircraft is irrelevant.
Minimum wage means minimum standards. Gotta get those profits up, baby.
I worked the ramp for Delta AL for almost 6 years and we never had any close calls. Everybody was very well aware of the dangers of the ramp and we all looked out for each other. The only incident that happened on our ramp happened several years after I quit. A young man decided to end his life by jumping into the running engine of a A319 that was being guided into the ramp. The ramp is a very dangerous place to work if you’re not careful.
Do you really think someone report a close call and get their ass fired? Riggghhhhttt. people dont rat themselves out.
Why would anyone pick that method for suicide?
You stated that plane needed to have Jet bridge in place before GPU but that is not a fact. The GPU could have been connected but it looks like it was not in place. If the GPU was in place as soon as the plane stopped then the engines could have been shut down.
That whole ramp was an accident waiting to happen
@@davidsmiths5471 yes
@@ianwilson4286So 2 alleged briefings, so one person was told hold on to belt loader,other wing walker was told stand between the wing and tail,other place a cone by the tail,orange vest open the front bin! Me being the marshaller will bring the aircraft in singal chokes placed, then will stand under the nose and wait for the power cord to come to me,while the pilot is still stomping on the brakes,thinking we're did everyone go?
I have lost two aunts and an uncle to MS. It's a terrible disease, and I guess if there is ever a silver lining, her family doesn't have to suffer seeing her deteriorate as it ravages her body. Two of my cousins (brothers) were diagnosed with Huntington's. The symptoms are very similar to MS, and after seeing their mom and my grandma go from it, they both chose to end it early.
Drug testing is definitely needed, but I doubt it was a contributing factor in this case. I hope we can learn from this and prevent it from happening again. It should never have happened in the first place.
I have worked around people who smoke pot. I bailed from my business to avoid them because they are idiots. I have many many stories.
Since you have legit reasons for it, we need a now test for it. Sleep/pain...
I fueled aircraft at Denver International Airport a few decades ago. We were all warned not to get close the the intake of the engines as well. I did have to walk around the front of running engines on a few occasions but I do remember staying a good 30 ft away from the intake as I didn't want to take chances and it still made me nervous walking in front of them. It only takes a split second to make a fatal mistake.
Just curious, why did you have to be near the intake of the turbine? I've worked the ramp and that was something that we would get reprimanded for doing - it was absolute taboo. Glad you listened to you instincts.
God bless her family...AMEN ❤❤❤
Having worked on a military flight line, aircraft are extremely dangerous. Prayers for her family and those impacted by this tragedy. Hopefully, some rules or guidelines come out to increase crew and passenger safety.
Like you I worked on military flight lines with transports (turbo-prop and jet powered), fighters, bombers and helicopters at various stages of my career. They each had their particular hazards, but every single one was dangerous. Tragic that someone who probably should have not been on the flight line was allowed to be there and was killed.
It blows my mind that there wasn't mandatory drug testing.
As someone who knows nothing about planes, this was a brilliant and concise explanation of what happened. Quick and to the point. On the note of Safety Sensitive work, there was an interesting exception at a railroad I worked for. I worked in an office miles from any actual trains doing dispatch, but our office did not handle any rail switching which seemed to be the government's line for Safety Sensitive. The company still drug tested us for good measure, we handled the emergency number listed at the crossings after all.
Having worked at UPS for over 7yrs air overnite service. You would not believe how often this type of stuff almost happens. Every time we had to air start an aircraft that anomaly to our routine or any change was the most dangerous time for all of us.
Having stated on a previous vid as the pushback driver I watched three long term employee's walk thru the jet wash of an engine, one got launched 20' down the tarmac, the second somehow air walked thru it and the third realized opps bad idea.
She did not walk into the exhaust she walked into the front of it
But with UPS you should be loading from the left. True? So, the engine that runs the generator should be on the right. I have been around aerospace engineers much. But I've not full understanding about why the left engine here was used.
@@davidmotter5140
Yeah no shat Sherlock just giving an example of how it can go wrong.....some of y'all are some real goofballs
@@danielocarey9392
As far as loading cargo aircraft different aircraft have all different configurations, but I have never seen an aircraft that didn't load from both sides. In regards to the APU being inoperative in cargo the plane is going to be shut down, and then one engine is air started, and that engine would then start the second engine. The accident I witnessed these guys were helping with the air starting procedure and then walked away into the jet blast of the first running engine.
DEI hire
I flew once in 1985 then in 1995 and that was enough terror for me.
I worked on the ramp years ago, never put the cones out until the engines are off. She had to be high because when the engines are off it's quiet
Can't forget the beacons too. Geez
@@sarahsmthroxBeacons are like a suggestion, the engines might be running!
Yep. Same here. That was like the #1 thing we learned. I always behaved as if they were running and approached a shut-down turbine with respect and awareness even if I had to drop a cone or servicing for a RON.
@@sarahsmthrox So you would never approach an aircraft with the beacons??
@@davidsmiths5471 I might be wrong.
No idea why this showed up on my feed, I have already posted a message of condolence. I just wanted to add that you are a brilliant presenter Sir.
Oh man, this was a tough listen.
In my experience, some people just have a bad attitude when it comes to safety. They're there physically for the safety briefings, but their mind is somewhere else. They know it all, and "who the hell is this guy trying to teach anyway".
Back when I was an EMS training officer this always blew my mind. I mean they literally saw what happened to people who had failed to follow work safety rules every day. But try to get them to follow some basic common sense safety rules when out on a dark rainy highway accident scene at midnight? Nope!
So if these meeting actually took place,why would 2 people be doing the wrong procedures
@@davidsmiths5471 You again with your stupid opinions? Really? She was standing NEXT to the crew chief. I have been this guy. I had no ability to pick my crew as assigned by mgmt randomly based on start times and qualifications. I have given this SAME briefing, standing in the corporate "Circle of Safety" painted on the ramp at every gate. I have used the mandated verbiage on the Green "huddle cards" prior to every arrival, having to wave wing walkers (like her) who had already and knowingly, parked their butts at the roadway separating the active taxiway from the ramp/gate. I have been observed and have done the observing of arrival crew procedures which includes "Did the ALA (crew chief) conduct a pre-arrival huddle?" Maybe your question is not so stupid as is your insinuation of improper procedures.
@@davidsmiths5471 Because their brains weren't on during.
This happens sometimes when a student pilot attempts to solo. "OK, remember the drill..." But they actually weren't really paying attention.
I was a commercial and sport fisherman, and construction worker. Dealing with adults who act like spoiled children goes with the territory. Tell them anything that they should know, and their ego is bruised. What often follows is intentionally doing the exact opposite of common sense and/or best practices - extreme risk, fouling up the work - be damned.
I worked at MKCI as a Field maintenance worker. Basically just mowing the airfield and snow removal. You get drug tested to get the job and random testing whenever they wanted to. I just assumed the ramp agents were subjected to the same drug policies that we were. I stand corrected now.
Your not wrong!
Tragic to be sure, but this was entirely avoidable and the woman involved was totally responsible for the incident. It seems clear to me that Piedmont had done everything they could reasonably do, including 2 separate safety briefings for the ramp crew prior to the arrival of that aircraft. I have worked in the automotive industry, and was certified as a haz-mat technician. The training was very intensive as the circumstances could be life threatening. There is little room for error. Ms. Edwards paid a high price for her inattentive behavior.
Everyone is at fault for this happening,and it shouldn't have happen is the really sad thing
@@davidsmiths5471it started with the hiring and job selection.
I believe in the ADA but some extra consideration needs to be used in job placement. ✌️
@davidsmiths5471 Nope. Just Courtney was responsible. You didn't watch the video did you?
@@davidsmiths5471did we watch the same thing? Because I don't think we did.
You can't fix stupid, yet DEI insists we must put stupid into dangerous situations.
Isn’t this amazing? This woman was an accident waiting to happen. And it happened.
Which falls on the management and coworkers!
@@davidsmiths5471 There is only so much a guy can do. I did this for 33 years for major airlinr that has this a/c in it's fleet. I have given this same briefing to my crews as well transmitted inop apu from dispatch to ground crews. I was also a trainer and had FAA/OSHA compliance responsibilities. Mgmt is reluctant to fire anybody that has been hired, been through the training, in uniform, and actually shows up. Add to the fact that this was a black female that literally cannot be touched by corporate america without being sued and shovel out a cash settlement to follow. My coworkers went from experienced, efficient, knowledgeable fellows to a DEI gender rainbow of disaster that functioned only due to a few self-motivated anchors that carried the int'l flotsam and jetsam hired to replace retirees and vacancies. I also have had to yank one of these dummies to safety for this exact scenario. I observed him wandering towards a running #1 on a B737-900, as I was waiting to asist this ground crew (inop apu). Guy was walking along wing to place chocks on main gear....
DEI hire. The company had no choice.
It's only 2024, mankind is still evolving
@@davidsmiths5471 Coworkers? Get real. Do you live in a fantasyland where coworkers hold sway over each other? Crewchief has all the responsibilty w/o authority. The management should listen, observe, and then act in such a way that solves the problem.
Wow. I was recently diagnosed with FTD. Prior to my diagnosis, I did not notice my cognitive impairment until my neurologist did an assessment.
Sorry about your FTD. That’s a tough diagnosis.
She was one of those people who nod along to everything and never hear or retain anything.
You mean like the other people she worked with?
We have to take responsibility for our own actions. Too many people want to blame everyone else for another’s decisions.
She was very pretty. But she had an attitude. And it cost her everything.
@@danielocarey9392 Usual h00drat DEI attitude.
They were probably afraid to fire her, even for her own good.
Protected class. Hyper protected.
DEI hire
DEI
Courtney may have been standing right next to the guy giving the safety briefing, but she wasn't listening to what he was saying. Considering the other two write ups she had, I can guess her attitude and attention to procedures and rules.
I aint gots no time fo' no sayftee sheeeit....
@@haywoodyoudome 💯
She was too busy to listen because she was on the phone.
As well, I don’t know who has a loud enough voice to conduct a “safety briefing” on an active ramp with jet engines running all over the place.
They were outside waiting for plane to pulll up to gate..even with the noise around you, you can still hear...if you choose to listen 😉.@@brinsonharris9816
So ridiculous on so many levels... where can we find the documents and footage of this?
It’s horrible this happened but this is what happens when you can’t sack people that should be sacked or let go for fear of recrimination from the complainant
She suffered with a difficult and disabling disease but she got up and went to work anyway to take care of her family. I give her a lot of credit for that. Sadly I wish she had been barred from the ramp for what they saw long before her death. There are so many things needing doing in an airport that doesn't consist of walking around an idling rocket. Really well done video, Taking Off, thank you. Edited for spelling.
I am far less inclined to blame her and far more inclined to blame the person that put her in that position.
@@kcgunesq She put herself in that position. Be clear about that. She had MS. She was not stupid, not incapable of making an independent decision to save her life. If she was good enough to hire for the ramp, she was good enough to hire for other positions more suitable to her condition. But it was still her fault. She made a choice that she did not need to make.
I don't care what's going on in my life, I'm not going to walk in front of a running aircraft engine for anybody for any reason. But for as long as we do not blame people for creating their own problems, is exactly how long other people are going to have to suffer because of that. People need to take responsibility for their decisions. No, it's not always somebody else's fault! Sometimes it is downright just your own fault! I wish she didn't have to pay for this one with her life. But that's what she did. Yes, there were contributing factors. But ultimately, this boils down to self-preservation and common sense.
@@kcgunesq Of course. YOUR own personal safety should be someone else's responsibility, not your own. Great mentality.
The real issue is the DEI policies that are pushed that end up enabling situations like this to happen, and if challenged for performance or safety related issues, are instant grounds for a discrimination lawsuit.
Some positions are not compatible with drug use. Ground crews should be considered safety sensitive.
Safety sensitive or not, this is a prime reason pot should not be an over the counter drug. Pot heads are druggies, druggies shouldn’t be working about equipment, period.
As someone recently diagnosed with ADHD, I am constantly seeking complacency. It's too much brainwork to be "on" all the time. I've stream-lined many processes that makes tasks less stressful. But sometimes, things cannot be streamlined and I'm glad I've survived this long breaking many compliances over the years.