Stopped in the local Lowe’s tonight and saw the Jorgensen there for $50, and thought “Well for that price, I guess I should give this thing a try”. With only tightening the mouth up a bit, and advancing the blade, out of the box it was giving me transparently thin shavings. My best guess is that they took your input to heart and are now providing an even better value on what is an incredibly budget friendly plane.
Just got one off of Amazon and same. all I did was tighten things down and yeah it works. I’ll still probably put some time into it to make it better, but it’s perfectly usable without it.
I think I know where the recalled planes went. I got one selling at $30 at Chinese ebay. Hollowed plane sole, chip breaker issues. It took me two three hours to tune it.
Something to consider. That Stanley #4 that cost $2.40 new in 1910 would be about $75 in today's dollars. Another thing to consider. US labor was considered cheap compared to Western Europe in 1910. In 1910, a much larger percentage of the workforce was using hand tools. The electric hand plane also didn't exist in 1910. A question to ponder. How much of the pandemic driver interest in home based projects that helped fuel this channel will remain after more normalization? On the one hand, many people who would never have thought about woodworking were introduced to it. On the other hand, not all of them will stick with it. Lots of moving parts will determine the future offerings of hand planes. How many people would have bought the equivalent of a Veritas in 1910?
Bought one today 7/12/2023 (Lowers ) marked $69.95 This plane is head over heels, from what other big box stores sells! I got both the #4 and the 601/2 for under $100 (10% discount) I am new to planes (and woodworking) so tune up will be a challenge but I do a lot of things ~just to see if I can (actually woodwork is just that, to see if I can develop the skills to make something somebody wants) 60 year I didn't do wood because I remember my absolutely atrocious high school shop project (a leaning book holder) it became firewood. Love your channel (and your skills) Right now I do power tool projects, hope to progress to hand tools before I croak!
Sounds like Rex needs to partner with a solid company to help them create a really solid plane for beginners. Or just solid planes overall! Keep up the good work.
Learning how to fettle and set tools, and why. Is a basic learning curve that is essential for all aspiring wood workers. After learning how to make tea and sweep up. Fettling is the next important thing to learn for any apprentice.
I got mine a few days ago. Ordered in online from Lowes. It had the same problems that yours had. Hollow sole, blade not flat, chip breaker not closing. I think this is a quality control issue. Yes it will cut "out of the box", not well and will choke on shavings. I spent several hours flatening the sole and blade, getting the chip breaker to seat, honing the frog and smoothing the plane body so the frog would seat as it should. After honing the blade and setting the mouth and chip breaker, it cuts like it should. Very thin and wide shaving th full length of a scrap of red oak. Even against the grain, good shaving. This is a really good plane when tuned up as you would do on a vintage plane. A beginning woodworker will have to learn how to set up a plane, a great skill to have, then will have a good plane. As for weight, this would be a great plane for a shootint board where extra weight is an advantage. Great work on your video, it's what decided me on the purchase and I'm not dissapointed with it.
Hey Rex. I dig your show. You get right to the point, and explain everything clearly. My father was a self employed cabinet maker. I’m a machinist with 25 years of experience. I think you would benefit by adding a granite surface plate in your shop for flat sanding, inspecting, and tuning your tools. Grizzly industrial has an 18”x24”x3” Gade B (0.00015 flatness)for a little less than $100. I hope you consider it. I have mine on top of my roll away toolbox and keep it covered with a piece of cardboard. If space and storage is an issue.
@@twcmaker Okay....if anyone knows it is going to be you. How do we pronounce Worcestershire or....the infamous Worcester ? (At least I say cabinet wright....right.)
I was surprised by your scarcity in finding it. They had 4 of them at my local Lowes for standard MSRP. I appreciate you taking the time to go through your process of, “Fixing” it and giving us your feedback on it. Amazing channel and I always look forward to your videos!
I was at an antique tool/curio store the other day. Didn't buy the Stanley #4's but they had several. Price was $68. for "good shape but needs a little love". To $149. for "fully restored and good to go". Quotes are mine BTW. And the $5. for "pile 'O' rust in plane shape". I'm no expert but the $68. ones could be tuned up by anyone who watched Rex's excellent video on the subject. A little off the subject, there's something kinda groovy using a tool some other shmoe had used @ 100 yrs. ago. My #5 is @ 1914 and was beautifully restored. I found it on ebay for $150. Thanks, Rex !!
I watched the Jorgenson #4 plane review on Workship Companion. I bought one of these #4 smoothing planes at Lowes last week (12/14/24) for $60, took it home, and I honestly believe one of the engineers watched your critique on this plane Rex. The sole was flat, except for a very small portion behind the mouth. Chip breaker was solidly flat, but I dressed it on a diamond stone just for good measure. Things still a boat anchor and the tote was a bit uncomfortable, but for my $60 bucks, I'm happy with it. Thanks for your tool reviews and for all your great content you produce!
The frog adjustment seems like almost a hybrid between Bailey and Bedrock. My overall impression is that this is a so-so $70 plane that could have been a very interesting $100 plane.
As odd as it is to call buyers of a hand plane "early adopters" in this day and age, that might be what stage we're in with these Jorgensens. If they listen to customer feedback, maybe hire some guys like Rex as consultants, they might have a decent market to capture being the bog standard for.
I really enjoyed your presentation style in this video. It felt authentic, conversational and concise. Not sure why that feels different than usual, but thanks for the content!
@@kittytrail you are right. That doesn’t make me wrong. You need to look for antique planes, which takes time and effort. Going to a store and grabbing one off the shelf is a very predictable process. Antique ones may miss parts or have broken parts. A store bought one with missing or broken parts can be returned. You can’t do that with antique ones. I have 200 antique planes. Probably 180 too many.
@@kittytrail You forget that in some parts of the world getting an antique shipped from the US or england can probably already put them at a higher price than a new inexpesive one
@@axialmount5571 you forgot that Stanley build, marketed, exported and sold those in lots of countries in the 20th century by millions if not tens of millions. i've seen those planes from Algeria countryside to Malaysia, Yemen, India, tribal Pakistan, Slovenia, Russia and more. the only things needed are time, perseverance and a good eye to find them in heaps of rusty tools in flea markets or lot auctions. even found a smallish one in Japan for ¥500 once. seriously, you can find pretty much everything everywhere nowadays, even NOS or 19th or early 20th century stuff with a bit of luck.
@@What_Other_Hobbies didn't say you're wrong, just that thou forgot what Stanley Works was and did in the 20th century, planes, chisels, rasps abound and spare parts too. when you want good tools that'll last and are known as _el_ _cheapo,_ you gotta do your homework and be ready to take your time. no amount of PRC junk or greedy corporate compromise of bastardized tools will satisfy your thirst of plane goodness. with those 180 planes of yours, you could open a shop anywhere in the world except probably Antarctica. 😉
Just picked one of these up at Lowe's, $50 regular price now. Same feature set, barely needed the sole flattened, and the iron needed a good bit of flattening. All in all about 1.5 hr of work and it's taking fluffy full shavings. My only complaint is the slot in the chip breaker for the blade advancement is a little short. I need to leave just a tad bit more than I prefer of the blade beyond the edge of the chip breaker to get the blade to engage. Other than that the blade assembly is pretty solid. Haven't tried hardwood yet but it hasn't chattered, the blade is thicker than a Stanley. Now I have two No4 planes with two purposes 😊
I went ahead and bought one last week, and saw the shortcomings you mentioned. Being new to hand planes, but not to tinkering, I think I learned some valuable skills for tuning up planes and got it to cut pretty well. Getting the chip breaker to mate with the iron was frustrating, but I think I finally got it there and am not seeing the clogging anymore. I think, for me, it was a good overall value.
Wooden hand planes that you can build are the best in my opinion. Quick and easy to flatten and very quick and easy to adjust. Most of the ones sold are cast iron garbage that are brittle. I've had the front portion of the blade holder on one of mines break just from tightening the blade turning the hand plane into a door stop.
I recently bought ones of these from Lowes, and ran into the same problems you did. I didn't know about needing to work on the chipbreaker, and so that'll be the next thing I do. But it's head and shoulders over the Harbor Freight hand plane I got, and served me well on completing my first project.
Hey Rex. I love this video. I saw these at my local Lowes. There is also a finger plane and an adjustable mouth block plane. I picked up the block plane. The sole is hollow on that one too. I may grab the other 2 to have the full set of planes that don't exist.
I bought the finger plane today, mostly because it was only $15. It's clearly a direct copy of the lie-nielsen #101, even though the instruction booklet was copied word-for-word from the lie-nielsen #102 product page. Particularly funny is that they copied the part about the mouth being sized for a .008-.010" thick shaving, even though the gaping mouth on the Jorgensen would fit about 1/16". It does work well enough after some honing on the iron.
I just got my first planes from a UK company called Axminster tools. I paid £165 ($197) for a 9 1/2 block plane and a 4 1/2 bench plane as a package deal. They were almost ready to go from the box, just a wee sharpen and a clean was required. Definitely recommend them to any UK folk watching this.
I paid a grand total of $1.75 for a Stanley No. 4 and a Stanley 60 They were both clean when I got them but did need to be sharpened. They weren't a package deal. I got them at different garage sales.
I don't know jack about planes, or woodworking. That's why I dig Rex. He's one of many UA-cam woodworkers/craftsmen who has had a plane in his hands for years. Plus the ability to articulate that experience concisely and tangibly. ...and the "price point" analysis of the "business objective" that Jorgensen was aiming for. Looks like the Indian version hit the mark.
Thank you for being you. About 5 years ago I watched your "#3: Fast plane restoration with BENCH GRINDER" and have been restoring hand planes ever since. It was a longer road learning to tune up an old neglected hand plane than just buying something new. But the knowledge gained along the way, was well worth it.
Regarding the bailey plane, it's hard for me to imagine that stanley didn't already figure out how to squeeze every single nickel out of that pattern. The fact that modern manufacturers think they can find a design cost savings where stanley couldn't...I dunno. Seems silly to me.
I agree and I think you've hit on the problem exactly.....except that manufacturing has changed so much. Sintered metal would have been science fiction to anyone who worked for stanley. Today, it's common and cheap.
@@RexKrueger I agree. The distinction I would make is that a sintered part and a cast part can meet the same design spec if companies cared to do it. So the process is different but the overall design is the same. If that makes sense. I don't care how you get to tolerance on the frog, for example. Sinter it, mill it, cast it, use magic for all I care. But recognize that it was designed to be that way because it was refined over, what, almost 200 years, to be the cheapest way to get to usable. There's no fat left to trim in those designs. If you're going to copy them, you've got to hit tolerance. Which, btw, doesn't mean ready to go right away. If it had taken 20 minutes to get a $70 plane tuned up and running right, I personally would consider that acceptable. I'm sure the bailey's needed that sometimes. Anyway, I'm rambling. Thanks Rex!
@@b61982 There also was no CNC machining back then, in this context it might be why the chip breaker is milled instead of stamped. If that part was the only one stamped it dosn't make sense for relatively low production runs
Hi Rex, I never used the lever cap to undo the chip breaker because that's the very reason why so many Stanley lever caps are broken . Happy New Year from a vintage Carpenter in England.
I actually found one of these in my local Menards, I considered buying it but figured I'd wait until I had a project that needed one. I'm glad I waited, because I mentioned it to my parents and they pulled out an old Stanley and an old Dunlap that were my great great uncle Francis's, and I should be able to restore them and get these treasures in use!
I think you'll do a lot better with those vintage planes. This one really is well made, but the old ones are lighter and more comfortable and they work well.
Very good video. Most of my planes are over 60 years old(Sargeants and Stanleys). The way to add good planes to my shop was garage sales and flea markets. Then I spend the time restoring them. In the 1980s it was easy to mail order parts from Stanley. In the near future nothing will be affordable. Good Luck, Rick
Speaking of casting and seasoning I used to work in a industrial machining factory and we would often make our own replacement parts for the machines. When it came to casting iron we would always do it in bedding pits and for example we would leave a lathe bed in the pit completely covered for nearly a year. It's unreal how much metal reacts to curing.
Thank you Rex for irreplaceable advice for beginners like myself. Just got myself a Christmas gift for myself with this hand plane and this helps me tune it in the near future!
Quite possibly the most informative video I've ever watched. 👍👍👍 ...and last year I bought a 'Buck' brand plane from Home Depot. It was my first plane ever but after buying a Sargent 409 at a garage sale I realized the Buck was garbage and I gave it to a guy at work.
Thank you for excellent thought shared with us. Eventually I decided to buy this plane especially I had a gift card. I spent about an hour tuning it and it is perfect now. Looks like they fixed the majority of those defects you mentioned.
Ironically my first plane was a Bailey No. 4 antique in fair shape that needed some rust knocked off and sharpening. I learned a LOT by restoring my antique plane, not the least of which was knowing what is or isn't working as I go. I could be a quick read and it came easier to me, but it didn't feel like rocket science. A lot of hands on and seeing failure before launch, helps. Knowing what is failing is what I learned. If you are agonizing over a microbevel or none on your blade; I don't think I'd actually recommend it. Mine had one and it made sharpening less convenient and thus, less often. Chisel edge is life.
I always love watching your show and learn a lot from you. To add to my tools I am waiting for the new R. Krueger line of tools to come out. I don't think they will be el cheapos, but I think they will be very well made.
Lowe's in Amarillo TX is showing one of the smoothing planes in stock. They've got 10 each of the 60-1/2 block planes and 102 low angle block planes. They also show a corner easing plane available to order. I didn't check our other Lowe's. Don in TX
Thanks Rex - you saved me $$. I too had high hopes Looks like you put more work into it than I have into the roughest of my old Stanley's from the antique shops Hoping your supposition that they are being recalled and reworked is correct!
I got my planes from our local antique store. They all cleaned and fixed up pretty good. I am happy with them. I got a nice little block plane for cheap but it was missing the front wooden knob. It had a 1/8" pitch threaded boss that the wood knob screwed onto. I 3D printed a threaded insert and epoxied it into a custom wood knob to fix the block plane.
I have found the best way to get a good plane, is to go to your local classifieds, buy used Stanley plane and do a bit of work on it. Some of the planes I have bought have been in the box and maybe used once because there is some bits of wood inside it but the blade has never been honed. The original buyer tried it once and then gave up. Also I have a long wooden plane made in about 1880; it will give me a 4/1000" shaving. I love your videos keep them coming!
The tote does take a bit to get used to, but I seem to have adapted quickly enough. The #4 I purchased off Amazon took maybe 10 minutes max to flatten the sole, a couple attempts to get the frog set, .maybe a total of 5 minutes to work both sides of the blade, 2 minutes on the breaker, and am able to take full width "gossamer" shavings . The adjuster on mine is very tight tolerance, hardly any freewheeling before the iron moves, which makes for excellent micro adjusting. I'm sorry to hear that you got a plane made on a Monday or Friday. I am naming mine Tuesday, because that's when workers usually get over their weekend hangovers and buckle down to pay attention to detail. I am quite pleased have a #4 that actually has enough space in front of the tote for my long fingers, I doubt I will be going back to Stanley #4 planes at all
Always enjoy your straight forward approach and entertaining style. Regarding a cheap hammer adjusted plane...I picked up 5 complete 22" wood bodied planes (plus a couple of others) for $5...total. Cleaning and sharpening and a very light pass over the jointer produced more heavy old planes than I have time to play with...so I'm giving one to my brother-in-law.
I think they might have paid attention to your criticism. I just picked one up Sep 2024. Out of curiosity, I tried planing out of the box with it. Brought the frog into position and.. I was shocked. Within seconds, I was planing .001 gorgeous shavings with that nice feel to it.. Chip breaker worked perfectly. I'll do the usual checks for flatness tomorrow, but at 69 dollars, it's a decent plane. Only 2 issues. The thing is HEAVY. And I'm not all that keen on the "orange is the new black" color.
I bought this. It's available in all of my local Lowe's. In my opinion, the biggest problems are the iron and the chip breaker. The iron isn't flat on the side that contacts the chip breaker, and the chip breaker appears to be very slightly twisted on mine, by about .005". Flattening the iron is very time consuming with an extra coarse diamond stone--it's a good time to watch the director's cut of the Lord of the Rings trilogy--although it might be faster on a coarse water stone. I found that the bevel on the iron *also* wasn't completely flat, and that's also a slow process to correct. The chip breaker being twisted is an enormous pain. There's not a great fix, although I was able to force it to be flat enough using paper shims. I haven't flattened the sole yet, so I may decide that's a big problem when I get to it. *BUT* ductile iron is relatively fast to smooth, compared to hardened O1 tool steel. I've only tried it on fir so far; I have some soft maple, red oak, and a bit of poplar I can test also. I'm not getting a chip forming across the entire width of the blade--just the middle--and I'm betting that it's because the sole of the plane is hollowed. But the chip that I *am* getting is very clean, and I'm not getting anything jamming against the chip breaker, or between the mouth at the frog. My hands are a bit large for it; I don't think that a different shape to the tote would help me a lot on ergonomics. It's not comfortable, but it's not awful. The weight isn't bothering me yet. It might in the future, but it doesn't now. Overall, since I didn't have $300 to spend on a Veritas, this seems like a good first plane. It's sufficient for what I need to do right now, and if I ever get good enough that this won't work for me, well, then I'll have to shell out the cash for the Veritas. If I hadn't watched this video before I bought the plane, I'd probably be pretty upset at how badly it worked out of the box, and I'd be really frustrated at how many hours it's taken me to get it workable (so far). But after watching this video, I decided that my time--since I was already off work for the holidays--was less valuable than my money. That makes it a worthwhile purchase for me.
Got this at lowes for 50-60 dollars. It's the tutorial level for planes. Beginners should be able to work with this and get a really nice results. I honestly get carried away with this thing sometimes when I get it rolling, especially when I put a little wax on the bottom to make it cut like a breeze.
Thanks for this Rex, an interesting discussion & comparison regardless of whether you're looking to buy one of these. I always appreciate your presentation style but thought this was a particularly assured "performance" very professional ! I think we're trying to fix a problem that doesn't currently need fixing - particularly if every plane that's not either LN or Veritas seems to need fettling anyway then as long as there remains a plentiful supply of vintage Stanleys and Records (etc etc) for £20-30 (or $) then why not just buy one of these and enjoy the process of getting to know it ! The reason they can't seem to improve on it at a low price is precisely because Stanley spent 100 years refining and cutting all the corners that could reasonably be cut - it's already been done !
Will say I picked up their low angle block plane in that line and honestly, I'm blown away. Maybe I got lucky but it's able to do thin shavings and even end grain with zero setup, didn't even sharpen it. Maybe there's less to a block plane to go wrong, but as my first one I can't complain at all.
I once bought a ratchet screwdriver. It is about 50 years ago and I only remember, that it was cheap, but it has served me well for almost all that time, but since it could work only with the type of screws that was prevalent then, I gradually stopped using it, but it still works, so you can get lucky buying cheap tools.
Rex, the wooden chinese style plane you showed a while back has me hooked. I prefer it over my Stanley 5 and 4, and i got it at a fraction of price. Once you learn how to tune it with a small hammer, you honestly enjoy it lots. Glides over wood and gives a mean mean surface. Thanks for all your help. If i was in ohio i would take your autograph on your book and keep it, alongside a signed paper i got from Paul sellers. Two of my teachers
Just getting into woodworking with building a particular 14’ sailboat in mind. I am from Cleveland area also. I bought all the wood for it from a what seems to be a good place in Vickory Ohio (I am clueless about finding good quality wood) I subscribed and am learning a bunch through your videos! Thanks
I picked one of these up at my local Lowe's and it was producing gossamer thin shavings and a glassy edge after about 10 minutes of setup. All I had to do was adjust the chip breaker to be closer to the edge of the blade and move the frog a bit forward to close the mouth. I also broke the edges of the sole since they were VERY sharp coming out of the packaging. Not jagged sharp, just very precisely machined. I even cut myself on the blade while I was disassembling the plane and it was so sharp I didn't even notice I was cut until I saw the blood. I think it's definitely a product that is super reliant on whether you get a good one or a bad one, and I seem to have gotten a good one. Maybe you got one of the lower quality ones. Time will tell which is the more likely case. I will say this. I have the Grizzly / Caliastro white label #4 plane, and this one is miles ahead of it in performance. And I had to do a lot to that plane to get it to work properly. Flatten the sole, grind the stamped chip breaker to match the blade, flatten the frog, etc.
I got a new "stanley" No.4 plane for about 50$ about a year ago. The box says it's made in mexico and the tote is plastic. It works pretty well after some adjusting and sanding. But sadly/unsurprisingly the plastic tote broke recently and i'm currently working on a replacement made of beech👌
I bought my "Made In Mexico" Stanley Bailey Jack (No. 5) Plane new about a year and a half ago and it too has a black plastic tote and knob. Its casting is very rough, especially when compared to my Stanley Bailey Fore (No. 6) Plane which I purchased new in the mid '90's. It also came with a black plastic tote and knob, but was "Made In England". The No.6's sole needed very minor flattening and the rest of it a minor tuning up, whereas the No. 5's was a whole lot worse.
*Sigh* I know your pain about breaking the plastic tote on a plane. My so called "stanley" fell of my workbench onto the floor and the tote shatered. So I ended up replacing it with one carved out a bit of scrap oak I had to hand. The end result feals a lot better in my hand when I use it.
hi Rex in the UK, lathe and milling machine castings were left in the open for a minimum of three years before machining, clearly to allow the iron to settle. good documentary !
I got 2 old Stanley Baily planes at yard sales. Not even the cost of a new low end plane. They work fine once I put a bit of sweat equity to clean and sharpen them.
Have you tried Japanese style (pulling) planes? They're typically all hammer-adjusted with a really simple design that allows for low cost-decent quality. The best seller Japanese-style plane over here on amazon Japan is less than 1,500 yen, so about $10 or something? With over 2,400 reviews at 4+ stars. It's a little on the small side, but the bigger ones aren't that much more expensive either.
@@1pcfred That's fair, to each their own. I was just putting it out there when he asked for good quality, cheap, hammer-adjusted planes. Japanese block planes fit all those criteria.
I bought mine yesterday. The issue I have is the hole on the Chip Breaker is 1/4 inch closer to the edge and causes the Chip Breaker resting on the Pin/Screw for the Cap Iron. Therefore, I could not lower the iron pass the mouth with the adjustment screw all the way out. Otherwise, the plane is decent for that price range.
They are at lowes here in indiana and it's 50 bucks here so thank you for this video it's saving me some cash I was stoked since I'm just now getting into woodworking and I'm on a small budget
I'm trying something with my plane restorations that might be of help to beginning woodworkers. I'm finding some of those off-brand planes that collectors ignore, but that are good tools and restoring them as well as tuning them to be ready for use. By avoiding the planes that collectors have made expensive, I can keep the price competitive with box store planes.
Honestly a good move. I've found success with the Spear and Jackson planes, my No. 3 works wonderfully and I screwed up the chipbreaker for my No. 5 but I run it with the chipbreaker backed up pretty far and it works like a dream stilly. Soles are pretty flat out of the box too.
@@cracktact7676 There are some nice tools out there that aren't marked "Stanley". This isn't to say anything bad about Stanley. It's just that because of their collector values, a lot of them are priced out of the reach of someone starting out on a tight budget. I restored my first plane in about 1979, a Dunlap that I found in a collapsed barn and I've learned a lot since then. I still restore well-priced Stanleys, but as a tool user and not so much of a collector, I'm looking at the whole field to find tools that just need a bit of work to make them good tools.
Interesting vid - and handsome new plane. I've revamped a Stanley No.6 and a No. 4 - with a 5 to do when I have the time. I don't claim to be good at this, but I have honed my skills. I've got planes that perform really well now, and what you're having to do is non-trivial unless you're committed and have a modest shop setup - FOR A NEW PLANE.
My advice to any new beginners is do exactly what I did. I go to my local flea markets, antique stores and yard sales and I've bought Stanley number 4 , 5 and number 6 for less than $20 each. And most of the ones I find are usually made in the '50s or '60s and they're just built solid and stand the test of time.
Glad to hear you say it took you a long time to get that cap/blade mated and you still got a jam. I have yet to fully master this on my old planes and I wonder if it's partly because the blades are just well, old (twist, warp, etc). But of course mainly that I just need to keep doing it until I get it down. :) This was fun, thanks. Always down for a good tool dissection.
I saw these at my local Lowe's in Houma, LA this past weekend. I almost bought one but decided to see if I could find some online reviews first. This video is very timely.
I found their No. 102 at Lowes in Colorado. $14 and it is great. A little 102 with a depth adjuster. It has a nice thick blade that took me a few minutes to go from sharp to dang sharp. Nice little apron plane.
Loved that line too. My wife was looking at her own phone and not paying me any mind when Rex uttered that line. It made her look up and say "what did he just say?" with a big grin.
@@kurthausch7400 I think that Elon Musk is guilty of that on occasion. :grin: (I have to say, though, that, for all of his failures, he *IS* pushing technology forward *FAR* faster than it otherwise might go.)
I took a class 20 years ago to learn how to make a Krenov style plane with a Hock blade. I use that plane all the time and have Stanley, LN and Veritas planes of all types as well as other specialty wooden planes for roughing green wood.
I'm fairly new to hand planes (couple years of hobby work) and I've become a Krenov convert. I understand that people want Bailey style planes, but I can't defend buying a junk plane when you can buy a Krenov iron for comparable cost.
I got a good working shooting handplane from home depot, it's the only plane I've ever gotten, but I was able to flatten the bottom with minimal sanding and make good shavings
I still stand by my $20 Irwin #4 Bench Plane I bought at Menards. Before that I bout two Harbor Freight planes when watching old videos on fixing up cheap planes. I put a lot of time into those before I figured out what I was doing, only to realize it was that the frogs were so deformed from bad casting it was never going to work. Both were garbage. After a HUGE amount of frustration I finally saw a new Irwin #4 plane in shrink at Menards. I figured $20 was okay to spend. Its been working great almost right out of the box (of course I had to sharpen the iron and fix the lever cap flushness). It's not the best in the world but it works and it has taught me a LOT about tuning a plane and sharpening and using it. Eventually I want something really nice, but for now I'm thinking of just finding a few more of these cheap Irwins, and possibly going through some of the Rex and Paul Sellers videos to hand-make some tools.
7s usually are not cheap. 4s are cheap. I've bought a 4 in mint condition for a dollar. Though $5 for fair condition is more typical. The best Bailey model is a 5 BTW. It's not too big and not too small. Though if you only had a 4 you could manage to do everything with it.
@@1pcfred Thanks for the No5 tip! I'm only recently back into woodwork, my tool collection is pretty old. My daughter has started woodwork at school so I'm dusting off the plane's 😀
@@markdavis2475 5s are like the three bears. It's the one in the middle that's just right. It's the jack of all planes. It can smooth and joint. But 4s are the most common. Probably because they were cheaper? And you can do it all with a 4 if you have to. It's the plane a homeowner would have. If you had to ease a door or a sash. Maybe scrape some paint.
18:25 One aspect I do not like about hammer adjusted wooden hand planes (European and Japanese) is that one has to release the tension on the blade after use. If you forget and the moisture content in the wooden body changes, the body even cracks.
This plane is now 49.95 at Lowes. Which is a pretty good deal for what you're getting. I can't touch a rusted up vintage Stanley for even close to that now especially the #4.
Thanks for the info. It looks like they’re back in stock along with a few other planes, and there’s even one at a store close to me. I’m actually considering getting one because I don’t mine putting in some elbow grease to save a couple hundred bucks on a decent plane.
I actually have seen a few different Jorgensen planes at my lowes on oahu and they are still there, there's the 10" one, the tiny basic block plane, and then a decent looking adjustable block plane. They seem to have rolled back their kobalt line of hand plane offerings and replaced them with these.
I work at a Lowe’s. I needed new hacksaw blades because I’m making some O1 turning tools. I saw these places and a few other small, specialized planes. They weren’t there a week and a half ago. They replaced our Kobalt branded planes.
I don’t mind working on an old plane, even an originally cheap one, that has been recovered from a yard sale or thrift store, but there’s no way that I would want to do that with a new one. I have plenty of restored planes that work just fine, now, and a new Veritas router plane that needed nothing done except removal from the box. The only other new one was a Footprint block plane that was messing the adjuster and screw. I puzzled over that for a while and could make the parts by hand, but decided to wedge a pice of hardwood in it and adjust with a hammer . It works fine! So simple. Now I wish that I had not passed on the acquisition of several vintage hammer adjustable planes over the years.
A bit like comparing an old BMC Mini with a modern BMW one! I am glad I found a couple of old Stanleys and put the time into restoring them (which was fun to do).
I’m really glad I came across your channel. The details you give are amazing. I’ve never used this tool. Frankly they are intimidating, and I don’t own one. But I know I need one or more. Thanks for the video.
Owning both a hammer adjusted plane and a few Stanleys, I definitely prefer the hammer adjustment for most jobs. Less things to go wrong or fiddle with while working.
At 15:00 you speculate, Rex, that maybe they recalled the planes for a full redesign. But over the previous 15 minutes I didn't so much hear criticisms of the design as criticism of the manufacture and quality control. Issues like whether or not they allowed the plane sole castings to season long enough before machining them aren't so much a matter of bad work on the CAD machine as cutting a corner during manufacture. It means that Jorgensen must go back not to the engineering but the factory to get things fixed. But either way, in the end it leaves customers with the same frustrating experience if they are new to woodworking and looking for an inexpensive hand plane. As of November 27, Lowes website claims there's one at my local store (YMMV). Rex, I really appreciate this review; you have enabled me to decide whether or not to buy a Jorgensen #4 hand plane with knowledge of what I may have to do to make it work. Thank you for this review.
Excellent video as always! Here are my 2 cents: I've been woodworking for about 6 years, and my fist hand plane was a bailey copy, a Magnusson n. 4 from a big box retailer here in Spain, maybe 35-40€. Lots of shortcomings, as you would expect, but I learned to use it and to tune it at the same time, and today performs excellently, even in the purpleheart for my last project. Then I got a block plane from the same brand that turned out ok, and then, digging in my late grandfathers pile of tools, I found two wooden planes, a jack and a scrub (or something like it, very thick irons, neither with cap irons, one with a VERY open mouth, the other much finer). Learned to hammer adjust them, and specially the jack, I use it as a big smoother really, it works that well!
Stopped in the local Lowe’s tonight and saw the Jorgensen there for $50, and thought “Well for that price, I guess I should give this thing a try”. With only tightening the mouth up a bit, and advancing the blade, out of the box it was giving me transparently thin shavings. My best guess is that they took your input to heart and are now providing an even better value on what is an incredibly budget friendly plane.
Just got one off of Amazon and same. all I did was tighten things down and yeah it works. I’ll still probably put some time into it to make it better, but it’s perfectly usable without it.
I think I know where the recalled planes went. I got one selling at $30 at Chinese ebay. Hollowed plane sole, chip breaker issues. It took me two three hours to tune it.
same here at my lowes 49 :95 so I got 2 of them.and I lucked out out..
Something to consider. That Stanley #4 that cost $2.40 new in 1910 would be about $75 in today's dollars.
Another thing to consider. US labor was considered cheap compared to Western Europe in 1910.
In 1910, a much larger percentage of the workforce was using hand tools. The electric hand plane also didn't exist in 1910.
A question to ponder. How much of the pandemic driver interest in home based projects that helped fuel this channel will remain after more normalization? On the one hand, many people who would never have thought about woodworking were introduced to it. On the other hand, not all of them will stick with it.
Lots of moving parts will determine the future offerings of hand planes. How many people would have bought the equivalent of a Veritas in 1910?
Bought one today 7/12/2023 (Lowers ) marked $69.95 This plane is head over heels, from what other big box stores sells! I got both the #4 and the 601/2 for under $100 (10% discount) I am new to planes (and woodworking) so tune up will be a challenge but I do a lot of things ~just to see if I can (actually woodwork is just that, to see if I can develop the skills to make something somebody wants) 60 year I didn't do wood because I remember my absolutely atrocious high school shop project (a leaning book holder) it became firewood. Love your channel (and your skills) Right now I do power tool projects, hope to progress to hand tools before I croak!
Sounds like Rex needs to partner with a solid company to help them create a really solid plane for beginners. Or just solid planes overall! Keep up the good work.
Maybr other tools, too
LTT makes a very nice screwdriver, lol.
And finally thay would end as Lie Nelson and Veritas. Pretty, awesome, out from the package and soooo expensive...
Ikr, I'd spend good money if he made a premium transitional plane set, where I could buy 4 or 5 and be completely covered for life.
Learning how to fettle and set tools, and why. Is a basic learning curve that is essential for all aspiring wood workers.
After learning how to make tea and sweep up. Fettling is the next important thing to learn for any apprentice.
I got mine a few days ago. Ordered in online from Lowes. It had the same problems that yours had. Hollow sole, blade not flat, chip breaker not closing. I think this is a quality control issue. Yes it will cut "out of the box", not well and will choke on shavings. I spent several hours flatening the sole and blade, getting the chip breaker to seat, honing the frog and smoothing the plane body so the frog would seat as it should. After honing the blade and setting the mouth and chip breaker, it cuts like it should. Very thin and wide shaving th full length of a scrap of red oak. Even against the grain, good shaving. This is a really good plane when tuned up as you would do on a vintage plane. A beginning woodworker will have to learn how to set up a plane, a great skill to have, then will have a good plane. As for weight, this would be a great plane for a shootint board where extra weight is an advantage. Great work on your video, it's what decided me on the purchase and I'm not dissapointed with it.
Hey Rex. I dig your show. You get right to the point, and explain everything clearly. My father was a self employed cabinet maker. I’m a machinist with 25 years of experience. I think you would benefit by adding a granite surface plate in your shop for flat sanding, inspecting, and tuning your tools. Grizzly industrial has an 18”x24”x3” Gade B (0.00015 flatness)for a little less than $100. I hope you consider it. I have mine on top of my roll away toolbox and keep it covered with a piece of cardboard. If space and storage is an issue.
58 seconds in: can we take a moment to appreciate the clever editing folks😍
Thanks. We work extra hard to add those tiny details.
Nice!
Bonus feature = watch from 00:51 @0.25x speed for lols
Yes & yes. Very enjoyable editing. The great editing was only interrupted by interesting details about metals.
And back I go 😂 I have to see now
@@twcmaker Okay....if anyone knows it is going to be you. How do we pronounce Worcestershire or....the infamous Worcester ?
(At least I say cabinet wright....right.)
I was surprised by your scarcity in finding it. They had 4 of them at my local Lowes for standard MSRP. I appreciate you taking the time to go through your process of, “Fixing” it and giving us your feedback on it. Amazing channel and I always look forward to your videos!
Agreed, i am also seeing them in stock (in arizona)
Lowe's in north Texas have plenty.
Same here, Lowes has plenty of them (Indiana)
Lowe's in Huntsville Alabama have them as well.
I picked one up in Colorado.
I was at an antique tool/curio store the other day. Didn't buy the Stanley #4's but they had several. Price was $68. for "good shape but needs a little love". To $149. for "fully restored and good to go". Quotes are mine BTW. And the $5. for "pile 'O' rust in plane shape". I'm no expert but the $68. ones could be tuned up by anyone who watched Rex's excellent video on the subject. A little off the subject, there's something kinda groovy using a tool some other shmoe had used @ 100 yrs. ago. My #5 is @ 1914 and was beautifully restored. I found it on ebay for $150. Thanks, Rex !!
I watched the Jorgenson #4 plane review on Workship Companion. I bought one of these #4 smoothing planes at Lowes last week (12/14/24) for $60, took it home, and I honestly believe one of the engineers watched your critique on this plane Rex. The sole was flat, except for a very small portion behind the mouth. Chip breaker was solidly flat, but I dressed it on a diamond stone just for good measure. Things still a boat anchor and the tote was a bit uncomfortable, but for my $60 bucks, I'm happy with it. Thanks for your tool reviews and for all your great content you produce!
The frog adjustment seems like almost a hybrid between Bailey and Bedrock. My overall impression is that this is a so-so $70 plane that could have been a very interesting $100 plane.
As odd as it is to call buyers of a hand plane "early adopters" in this day and age, that might be what stage we're in with these Jorgensens. If they listen to customer feedback, maybe hire some guys like Rex as consultants, they might have a decent market to capture being the bog standard for.
Seems modeled after the type 3 Bedrock,
I really enjoyed your presentation style in this video. It felt authentic, conversational and concise. Not sure why that feels different than usual, but thanks for the content!
That hand off in the beginning was so smooth. Great video Rex
Thanks 👍
Glad to see this series of “searching for affordable good plane” back.
I agree, this one is really close, and $70 is a good price.
second, third or even fourth or more hand older ones are still cheaper and better without any doubt.
@@kittytrail you are right. That doesn’t make me wrong. You need to look for antique planes, which takes time and effort. Going to a store and grabbing one off the shelf is a very predictable process.
Antique ones may miss parts or have broken parts. A store bought one with missing or broken parts can be returned. You can’t do that with antique ones. I have 200 antique planes. Probably 180 too many.
@@kittytrail You forget that in some parts of the world getting an antique shipped from the US or england can probably already put them at a higher price than a new inexpesive one
@@axialmount5571 you forgot that Stanley build, marketed, exported and sold those in lots of countries in the 20th century by millions if not tens of millions. i've seen those planes from Algeria countryside to Malaysia, Yemen, India, tribal Pakistan, Slovenia, Russia and more. the only things needed are time, perseverance and a good eye to find them in heaps of rusty tools in flea markets or lot auctions. even found a smallish one in Japan for ¥500 once. seriously, you can find pretty much everything everywhere nowadays, even NOS or 19th or early 20th century stuff with a bit of luck.
@@What_Other_Hobbies didn't say you're wrong, just that thou forgot what Stanley Works was and did in the 20th century, planes, chisels, rasps abound and spare parts too. when you want good tools that'll last and are known as _el_ _cheapo,_ you gotta do your homework and be ready to take your time. no amount of PRC junk or greedy corporate compromise of bastardized tools will satisfy your thirst of plane goodness.
with those 180 planes of yours, you could open a shop anywhere in the world except probably Antarctica. 😉
Just picked one of these up at Lowe's, $50 regular price now. Same feature set, barely needed the sole flattened, and the iron needed a good bit of flattening. All in all about 1.5 hr of work and it's taking fluffy full shavings.
My only complaint is the slot in the chip breaker for the blade advancement is a little short. I need to leave just a tad bit more than I prefer of the blade beyond the edge of the chip breaker to get the blade to engage. Other than that the blade assembly is pretty solid. Haven't tried hardwood yet but it hasn't chattered, the blade is thicker than a Stanley.
Now I have two No4 planes with two purposes 😊
I went ahead and bought one last week, and saw the shortcomings you mentioned. Being new to hand planes, but not to tinkering, I think I learned some valuable skills for tuning up planes and got it to cut pretty well. Getting the chip breaker to mate with the iron was frustrating, but I think I finally got it there and am not seeing the clogging anymore. I think, for me, it was a good overall value.
Wooden hand planes that you can build are the best in my opinion. Quick and easy to flatten and very quick and easy to adjust. Most of the ones sold are cast iron garbage that are brittle. I've had the front portion of the blade holder on one of mines break just from tightening the blade turning the hand plane into a door stop.
I recently bought ones of these from Lowes, and ran into the same problems you did. I didn't know about needing to work on the chipbreaker, and so that'll be the next thing I do. But it's head and shoulders over the Harbor Freight hand plane I got, and served me well on completing my first project.
I did not expect you to toss it over your shoulder! That was awesome.
Hey Rex. I love this video. I saw these at my local Lowes. There is also a finger plane and an adjustable mouth block plane. I picked up the block plane. The sole is hollow on that one too. I may grab the other 2 to have the full set of planes that don't exist.
I bought the finger plane today, mostly because it was only $15. It's clearly a direct copy of the lie-nielsen #101, even though the instruction booklet was copied word-for-word from the lie-nielsen #102 product page. Particularly funny is that they copied the part about the mouth being sized for a .008-.010" thick shaving, even though the gaping mouth on the Jorgensen would fit about 1/16". It does work well enough after some honing on the iron.
I just got my first planes from a UK company called Axminster tools. I paid £165 ($197) for a 9 1/2 block plane and a 4 1/2 bench plane as a package deal. They were almost ready to go from the box, just a wee sharpen and a clean was required. Definitely recommend them to any UK folk watching this.
I paid a grand total of $1.75 for a Stanley No. 4 and a Stanley 60 They were both clean when I got them but did need to be sharpened. They weren't a package deal. I got them at different garage sales.
I don't know jack about planes, or woodworking. That's why I dig Rex. He's one of many UA-cam woodworkers/craftsmen who has had a plane in his hands for years. Plus the ability to articulate that experience concisely and tangibly. ...and the "price point" analysis of the "business objective" that Jorgensen was aiming for. Looks like the Indian version hit the mark.
Thank you for being you. About 5 years ago I watched your "#3: Fast plane restoration with BENCH GRINDER" and have been restoring hand planes ever since. It was a longer road learning to tune up an old neglected hand plane than just buying something new. But the knowledge gained along the way, was well worth it.
Glad to help!!!
Rex, for this particular video, I like the format and tone.
I like your normal tone and format for your normal videos.
Regarding the bailey plane, it's hard for me to imagine that stanley didn't already figure out how to squeeze every single nickel out of that pattern. The fact that modern manufacturers think they can find a design cost savings where stanley couldn't...I dunno. Seems silly to me.
I agree and I think you've hit on the problem exactly.....except that manufacturing has changed so much. Sintered metal would have been science fiction to anyone who worked for stanley. Today, it's common and cheap.
@@RexKrueger I agree. The distinction I would make is that a sintered part and a cast part can meet the same design spec if companies cared to do it. So the process is different but the overall design is the same. If that makes sense. I don't care how you get to tolerance on the frog, for example. Sinter it, mill it, cast it, use magic for all I care. But recognize that it was designed to be that way because it was refined over, what, almost 200 years, to be the cheapest way to get to usable. There's no fat left to trim in those designs. If you're going to copy them, you've got to hit tolerance. Which, btw, doesn't mean ready to go right away. If it had taken 20 minutes to get a $70 plane tuned up and running right, I personally would consider that acceptable. I'm sure the bailey's needed that sometimes. Anyway, I'm rambling. Thanks Rex!
Though I agree with you in concept, Things like new materials and manufacturing techniques can provide a less expensive way to manufacture products.
@@b61982 There also was no CNC machining back then, in this context it might be why the chip breaker is milled instead of stamped. If that part was the only one stamped it dosn't make sense for relatively low production runs
I agree, why fix what isn't broken?
Hi Rex, I never used the lever cap to undo the chip breaker because that's the very reason why so many Stanley lever caps are broken . Happy New Year from a vintage Carpenter in England.
I actually found one of these in my local Menards, I considered buying it but figured I'd wait until I had a project that needed one. I'm glad I waited, because I mentioned it to my parents and they pulled out an old Stanley and an old Dunlap that were my great great uncle Francis's, and I should be able to restore them and get these treasures in use!
I think you'll do a lot better with those vintage planes. This one really is well made, but the old ones are lighter and more comfortable and they work well.
Very good video. Most of my planes are over 60 years old(Sargeants and Stanleys). The way to add good planes to my shop was garage sales and flea markets. Then I spend the time restoring them. In the 1980s it was easy to mail order parts from Stanley. In the near future nothing will be affordable. Good Luck, Rick
Speaking of casting and seasoning I used to work in a industrial machining factory and we would often make our own replacement parts for the machines. When it came to casting iron we would always do it in bedding pits and for example we would leave a lathe bed in the pit completely covered for nearly a year. It's unreal how much metal reacts to curing.
Thank you Rex for irreplaceable advice for beginners like myself. Just got myself a Christmas gift for myself with this hand plane and this helps me tune it in the near future!
Quite possibly the most informative video I've ever watched. 👍👍👍
...and last year I bought a 'Buck' brand plane from Home Depot. It was my first plane ever but after buying a Sargent 409 at a garage sale I realized the Buck was garbage and I gave it to a guy at work.
The art of engineering reaches it's epitome when you stop asking yourself not, "what more can I add", rather, "what more can I take away"?
Great review buddy thanks for sharing
Thank you for excellent thought shared with us. Eventually I decided to buy this plane especially I had a gift card. I spent about an hour tuning it and it is perfect now. Looks like they fixed the majority of those defects you mentioned.
In stock at the lowes in my area. Almost bought one and now wish I had.
Ironically my first plane was a Bailey No. 4 antique in fair shape that needed some rust knocked off and sharpening. I learned a LOT by restoring my antique plane, not the least of which was knowing what is or isn't working as I go. I could be a quick read and it came easier to me, but it didn't feel like rocket science. A lot of hands on and seeing failure before launch, helps. Knowing what is failing is what I learned.
If you are agonizing over a microbevel or none on your blade; I don't think I'd actually recommend it. Mine had one and it made sharpening less convenient and thus, less often. Chisel edge is life.
I always love watching your show and learn a lot from you. To add to my tools I am waiting for the new R. Krueger line of tools to come out. I don't think they will be el cheapos, but I think they will be very well made.
Lowe's in Amarillo TX is showing one of the smoothing planes in stock. They've got 10 each of the 60-1/2 block planes and 102 low angle block planes. They also show a corner easing plane available to order. I didn't check our other Lowe's. Don in TX
Great Insights Rex. Thanks for Sharing.
Thanks Rex - you saved me $$.
I too had high hopes Looks like you put more work into it than I have into the roughest of my old Stanley's from the antique shops
Hoping your supposition that they are being recalled and reworked is correct!
The Jorgensen plane is on the Lowes site at $70.
I got my planes from our local antique store. They all cleaned and fixed up pretty good. I am happy with them.
I got a nice little block plane for cheap but it was missing the front wooden knob. It had a 1/8" pitch threaded boss that the wood knob screwed onto. I 3D printed a threaded insert and epoxied it into a custom wood knob to fix the block plane.
I have found the best way to get a good plane, is to go to your local classifieds, buy used Stanley plane and do a bit of work on it. Some of the planes I have bought have been in the box and maybe used once because there is some bits of wood inside it but the blade has never been honed. The original buyer tried it once and then gave up. Also I have a long wooden plane made in about 1880; it will give me a 4/1000" shaving. I love your videos keep them coming!
Well Said all around!
The tote does take a bit to get used to, but I seem to have adapted quickly enough. The #4 I purchased off Amazon took maybe 10 minutes max to flatten the sole, a couple attempts to get the frog set, .maybe a total of 5 minutes to work both sides of the blade, 2 minutes on the breaker, and am able to take full width "gossamer" shavings . The adjuster on mine is very tight tolerance, hardly any freewheeling before the iron moves, which makes for excellent micro adjusting. I'm sorry to hear that you got a plane made on a Monday or Friday. I am naming mine Tuesday, because that's when workers usually get over their weekend hangovers and buckle down to pay attention to detail.
I am quite pleased have a #4 that actually has enough space in front of the tote for my long fingers, I doubt I will be going back to Stanley #4 planes at all
Always enjoy your straight forward approach and entertaining style. Regarding a cheap hammer adjusted plane...I picked up 5 complete 22" wood bodied planes (plus a couple of others) for $5...total. Cleaning and sharpening and a very light pass over the jointer produced more heavy old planes than I have time to play with...so I'm giving one to my brother-in-law.
Your channel is a treasure trove of plane knowledge. Respect.
I've seen these yesterday at my Lowe's in Oklahoma I picked it and said wow it's heavy. Way heavy than all my other ones.
Great video thanks
I saw this plane this past weekend in my local Lowe's; it made me wondering whether you'd be reviewing it. All I can say is "that was fast"!
I think they might have paid attention to your criticism. I just picked one up Sep 2024. Out of curiosity, I tried planing out of the box with it. Brought the frog into position and.. I was shocked. Within seconds, I was planing .001 gorgeous shavings with that nice feel to it.. Chip breaker worked perfectly. I'll do the usual checks for flatness tomorrow, but at 69 dollars, it's a decent plane. Only 2 issues. The thing is HEAVY. And I'm not all that keen on the "orange is the new black" color.
I bought this. It's available in all of my local Lowe's.
In my opinion, the biggest problems are the iron and the chip breaker. The iron isn't flat on the side that contacts the chip breaker, and the chip breaker appears to be very slightly twisted on mine, by about .005". Flattening the iron is very time consuming with an extra coarse diamond stone--it's a good time to watch the director's cut of the Lord of the Rings trilogy--although it might be faster on a coarse water stone. I found that the bevel on the iron *also* wasn't completely flat, and that's also a slow process to correct. The chip breaker being twisted is an enormous pain. There's not a great fix, although I was able to force it to be flat enough using paper shims. I haven't flattened the sole yet, so I may decide that's a big problem when I get to it. *BUT* ductile iron is relatively fast to smooth, compared to hardened O1 tool steel.
I've only tried it on fir so far; I have some soft maple, red oak, and a bit of poplar I can test also. I'm not getting a chip forming across the entire width of the blade--just the middle--and I'm betting that it's because the sole of the plane is hollowed. But the chip that I *am* getting is very clean, and I'm not getting anything jamming against the chip breaker, or between the mouth at the frog.
My hands are a bit large for it; I don't think that a different shape to the tote would help me a lot on ergonomics. It's not comfortable, but it's not awful. The weight isn't bothering me yet. It might in the future, but it doesn't now.
Overall, since I didn't have $300 to spend on a Veritas, this seems like a good first plane. It's sufficient for what I need to do right now, and if I ever get good enough that this won't work for me, well, then I'll have to shell out the cash for the Veritas.
If I hadn't watched this video before I bought the plane, I'd probably be pretty upset at how badly it worked out of the box, and I'd be really frustrated at how many hours it's taken me to get it workable (so far). But after watching this video, I decided that my time--since I was already off work for the holidays--was less valuable than my money. That makes it a worthwhile purchase for me.
Great share yet again Rex. Cheers.
Got this at lowes for 50-60 dollars. It's the tutorial level for planes. Beginners should be able to work with this and get a really nice results. I honestly get carried away with this thing sometimes when I get it rolling, especially when I put a little wax on the bottom to make it cut like a breeze.
Thanks for this Rex, an interesting discussion & comparison regardless of whether you're looking to buy one of these.
I always appreciate your presentation style but thought this was a particularly assured "performance" very professional !
I think we're trying to fix a problem that doesn't currently need fixing - particularly if every plane that's not either LN or Veritas seems to need fettling anyway then as long as there remains a plentiful supply of vintage Stanleys and Records (etc etc) for £20-30 (or $) then why not just buy one of these and enjoy the process of getting to know it !
The reason they can't seem to improve on it at a low price is precisely because Stanley spent 100 years refining and cutting all the corners that could reasonably be cut - it's already been done !
Will say I picked up their low angle block plane in that line and honestly, I'm blown away. Maybe I got lucky but it's able to do thin shavings and even end grain with zero setup, didn't even sharpen it. Maybe there's less to a block plane to go wrong, but as my first one I can't complain at all.
I once bought a ratchet screwdriver. It is about 50 years ago and I only remember, that it was cheap, but it has served me well for almost all that time, but since it could work only with the type of screws that was prevalent then, I gradually stopped using it, but it still works, so you can get lucky buying cheap tools.
Rex, the wooden chinese style plane you showed a while back has me hooked. I prefer it over my Stanley 5 and 4, and i got it at a fraction of price. Once you learn how to tune it with a small hammer, you honestly enjoy it lots. Glides over wood and gives a mean mean surface. Thanks for all your help. If i was in ohio i would take your autograph on your book and keep it, alongside a signed paper i got from Paul sellers. Two of my teachers
Just getting into woodworking with building a particular 14’ sailboat in mind. I am from Cleveland area also. I bought all the wood for it from a what seems to be a good place in Vickory Ohio (I am clueless about finding good quality wood)
I subscribed and am learning a bunch through your videos! Thanks
Love how well and clearly you explain everything.
I picked one of these up at my local Lowe's and it was producing gossamer thin shavings and a glassy edge after about 10 minutes of setup. All I had to do was adjust the chip breaker to be closer to the edge of the blade and move the frog a bit forward to close the mouth. I also broke the edges of the sole since they were VERY sharp coming out of the packaging. Not jagged sharp, just very precisely machined.
I even cut myself on the blade while I was disassembling the plane and it was so sharp I didn't even notice I was cut until I saw the blood.
I think it's definitely a product that is super reliant on whether you get a good one or a bad one, and I seem to have gotten a good one. Maybe you got one of the lower quality ones. Time will tell which is the more likely case.
I will say this. I have the Grizzly / Caliastro white label #4 plane, and this one is miles ahead of it in performance. And I had to do a lot to that plane to get it to work properly. Flatten the sole, grind the stamped chip breaker to match the blade, flatten the frog, etc.
I got a new "stanley" No.4 plane for about 50$ about a year ago.
The box says it's made in mexico and the tote is plastic. It works pretty well after some adjusting and sanding. But sadly/unsurprisingly the plastic tote broke recently and i'm currently working on a replacement made of beech👌
I bought my "Made In Mexico" Stanley Bailey Jack (No. 5) Plane new about a year and a half ago and it too has a black plastic tote and knob. Its casting is very rough, especially when compared to my Stanley Bailey Fore (No. 6) Plane which I purchased new in the mid '90's. It also came with a black plastic tote and knob, but was "Made In England". The No.6's sole needed very minor flattening and the rest of it a minor tuning up, whereas the No. 5's was a whole lot worse.
*Sigh* I know your pain about breaking the plastic tote on a plane. My so called "stanley" fell of my workbench onto the floor and the tote shatered. So I ended up replacing it with one carved out a bit of scrap oak I had to hand. The end result feals a lot better in my hand when I use it.
Thank you Mr. Krueger!
hi Rex in the UK, lathe and milling machine castings were left in the open for a minimum of three years before machining, clearly to allow the iron to settle. good documentary !
I got 2 old Stanley Baily planes at yard sales. Not even the cost of a new low end plane. They work fine once I put a bit of sweat equity to clean and sharpen them.
Have you tried Japanese style (pulling) planes? They're typically all hammer-adjusted with a really simple design that allows for low cost-decent quality. The best seller Japanese-style plane over here on amazon Japan is less than 1,500 yen, so about $10 or something? With over 2,400 reviews at 4+ stars. It's a little on the small side, but the bigger ones aren't that much more expensive either.
I'm not into Japanese tools myself. I like my western gear. Yehaw!
@@1pcfred That's fair, to each their own. I was just putting it out there when he asked for good quality, cheap, hammer-adjusted planes. Japanese block planes fit all those criteria.
@@ryuukusensei Rex has Japanese planes.
I bought mine yesterday. The issue I have is the hole on the Chip Breaker is 1/4 inch closer to the edge and causes the Chip Breaker resting on the Pin/Screw for the Cap Iron. Therefore, I could not lower the iron pass the mouth with the adjustment screw all the way out. Otherwise, the plane is decent for that price range.
They are at lowes here in indiana and it's 50 bucks here so thank you for this video it's saving me some cash I was stoked since I'm just now getting into woodworking and I'm on a small budget
Always enjoy your tool reviews, thorough, thoughtful and fair.
I'm trying something with my plane restorations that might be of help to beginning woodworkers. I'm finding some of those off-brand planes that collectors ignore, but that are good tools and restoring them as well as tuning them to be ready for use. By avoiding the planes that collectors have made expensive, I can keep the price competitive with box store planes.
Honestly a good move. I've found success with the Spear and Jackson planes, my No. 3 works wonderfully and I screwed up the chipbreaker for my No. 5 but I run it with the chipbreaker backed up pretty far and it works like a dream stilly. Soles are pretty flat out of the box too.
@@cracktact7676 There are some nice tools out there that aren't marked "Stanley". This isn't to say anything bad about Stanley. It's just that because of their collector values, a lot of them are priced out of the reach of someone starting out on a tight budget. I restored my first plane in about 1979, a Dunlap that I found in a collapsed barn and I've learned a lot since then. I still restore well-priced Stanleys, but as a tool user and not so much of a collector, I'm looking at the whole field to find tools that just need a bit of work to make them good tools.
Interesting vid - and handsome new plane.
I've revamped a Stanley No.6 and a No. 4 - with a 5 to do when I have the time. I don't claim to be good at this, but I have honed my skills. I've got planes that perform really well now, and what you're having to do is non-trivial unless you're committed and have a modest shop setup - FOR A NEW PLANE.
I learned a bunch in watching this. Thanks.
Thanks Rex, really enjoy your videos.
There are several at my local Lowes. Thrown on the bottom shelf with small Jorgeson clamps. There were no tags on it.
My advice to any new beginners is do exactly what I did. I go to my local flea markets, antique stores and yard sales and I've bought Stanley number 4 , 5 and number 6 for less than $20 each. And most of the ones I find are usually made in the '50s or '60s and they're just built solid and stand the test of time.
Glad to hear you say it took you a long time to get that cap/blade mated and you still got a jam. I have yet to fully master this on my old planes and I wonder if it's partly because the blades are just well, old (twist, warp, etc).
But of course mainly that I just need to keep doing it until I get it down. :)
This was fun, thanks. Always down for a good tool dissection.
just saw one at lowe's almost bought it but I remembered a rex video. thanks for saving me 65 bucks.
I saw these at my local Lowe's in Houma, LA this past weekend. I almost bought one but decided to see if I could find some online reviews first. This video is very timely.
I found their No. 102 at Lowes in Colorado. $14 and it is great. A little 102 with a depth adjuster. It has a nice thick blade that took me a few minutes to go from sharp to dang sharp. Nice little apron plane.
I'm not a fan of that style. I like the ones with the rear knob adjuster better. Like 220s or 60s.
"It's like they were reaching for the stars but they forgot to put on their pants." is absolutely brilliant and *SO* on-point.
Loved that line too. My wife was looking at her own phone and not paying me any mind when Rex uttered that line. It made her look up and say "what did he just say?" with a big grin.
@@kurthausch7400 I think that Elon Musk is guilty of that on occasion. :grin: (I have to say, though, that, for all of his failures, he *IS* pushing technology forward *FAR* faster than it otherwise might go.)
That comment is actually what made me miss the video effect that was mentioned earlier in the comments. :)
I took a class 20 years ago to learn how to make a Krenov style plane with a Hock blade. I use that plane all the time and have Stanley, LN and Veritas planes of all types as well as other specialty wooden planes for roughing green wood.
I'm fairly new to hand planes (couple years of hobby work) and I've become a Krenov convert. I understand that people want Bailey style planes, but I can't defend buying a junk plane when you can buy a Krenov iron for comparable cost.
I just looked at these two days ago. thanks for the evaluation.
Bought one at lowes last week. Great plane
I love my Stanley No. 4 Sweatheart. Does everything I want.
I got a good working shooting handplane from home depot, it's the only plane I've ever gotten, but I was able to flatten the bottom with minimal sanding and make good shavings
I still stand by my $20 Irwin #4 Bench Plane I bought at Menards. Before that I bout two Harbor Freight planes when watching old videos on fixing up cheap planes. I put a lot of time into those before I figured out what I was doing, only to realize it was that the frogs were so deformed from bad casting it was never going to work. Both were garbage.
After a HUGE amount of frustration I finally saw a new Irwin #4 plane in shrink at Menards. I figured $20 was okay to spend. Its been working great almost right out of the box (of course I had to sharpen the iron and fix the lever cap flushness).
It's not the best in the world but it works and it has taught me a LOT about tuning a plane and sharpening and using it. Eventually I want something really nice, but for now I'm thinking of just finding a few more of these cheap Irwins, and possibly going through some of the Rex and Paul Sellers videos to hand-make some tools.
Nice episode, thanks! I bought both my Stanleys (No4, No7) from eBay. Both made in the UK, old and solid in good condition and around £35 to £55.
7s usually are not cheap. 4s are cheap. I've bought a 4 in mint condition for a dollar. Though $5 for fair condition is more typical. The best Bailey model is a 5 BTW. It's not too big and not too small. Though if you only had a 4 you could manage to do everything with it.
@@1pcfred Thanks for the No5 tip! I'm only recently back into woodwork, my tool collection is pretty old. My daughter has started woodwork at school so I'm dusting off the plane's 😀
@@markdavis2475 5s are like the three bears. It's the one in the middle that's just right. It's the jack of all planes. It can smooth and joint. But 4s are the most common. Probably because they were cheaper? And you can do it all with a 4 if you have to. It's the plane a homeowner would have. If you had to ease a door or a sash. Maybe scrape some paint.
18:25 One aspect I do not like about hammer adjusted wooden hand planes (European and Japanese) is that one has to release the tension on the blade after use. If you forget and the moisture content in the wooden body changes, the body even cracks.
I appreciate the review showing what it took to get it going.
This plane is now 49.95 at Lowes. Which is a pretty good deal for what you're getting. I can't touch a rusted up vintage Stanley for even close to that now especially the #4.
Thanks for the info. It looks like they’re back in stock along with a few other planes, and there’s even one at a store close to me. I’m actually considering getting one because I don’t mine putting in some elbow grease to save a couple hundred bucks on a decent plane.
A fun video to watch,....after a short bit my full attention made time stand still. I was learning.
Great video Rex, thanks for the opinions
I actually have seen a few different Jorgensen planes at my lowes on oahu and they are still there, there's the 10" one, the tiny basic block plane, and then a decent looking adjustable block plane. They seem to have rolled back their kobalt line of hand plane offerings and replaced them with these.
I work at a Lowe’s. I needed new hacksaw blades because I’m making some O1 turning tools. I saw these places and a few other small, specialized planes. They weren’t there a week and a half ago. They replaced our Kobalt branded planes.
I don’t mind working on an old plane, even an originally cheap one, that has been recovered from a yard sale or thrift store, but there’s no way that I would want to do that with a new one. I have plenty of restored planes that work just fine, now, and a new Veritas router plane that needed nothing done except removal from the box. The only other new one was a Footprint block plane that was messing the adjuster and screw. I puzzled over that for a while and could make the parts by hand, but decided to wedge a pice of hardwood in it and adjust with a hammer . It works fine! So simple. Now I wish that I had not passed on the acquisition of several vintage hammer adjustable planes over the years.
A bit like comparing an old BMC Mini with a modern BMW one! I am glad I found a couple of old Stanleys and put the time into restoring them (which was fun to do).
I’m really glad I came across your channel. The details you give are amazing. I’ve never used this tool. Frankly they are intimidating, and I don’t own one. But I know I need one or more. Thanks for the video.
Owning both a hammer adjusted plane and a few Stanleys, I definitely prefer the hammer adjustment for most jobs. Less things to go wrong or fiddle with while working.
I have the 60 ½ Jorgensen. It works really well and seems to be made well.
At 15:00 you speculate, Rex, that maybe they recalled the planes for a full redesign. But over the previous 15 minutes I didn't so much hear criticisms of the design as criticism of the manufacture and quality control. Issues like whether or not they allowed the plane sole castings to season long enough before machining them aren't so much a matter of bad work on the CAD machine as cutting a corner during manufacture. It means that Jorgensen must go back not to the engineering but the factory to get things fixed. But either way, in the end it leaves customers with the same frustrating experience if they are new to woodworking and looking for an inexpensive hand plane.
As of November 27, Lowes website claims there's one at my local store (YMMV).
Rex, I really appreciate this review; you have enabled me to decide whether or not to buy a Jorgensen #4 hand plane with knowledge of what I may have to do to make it work. Thank you for this review.
Excellent video as always! Here are my 2 cents: I've been woodworking for about 6 years, and my fist hand plane was a bailey copy, a Magnusson n. 4 from a big box retailer here in Spain, maybe 35-40€. Lots of shortcomings, as you would expect, but I learned to use it and to tune it at the same time, and today performs excellently, even in the purpleheart for my last project. Then I got a block plane from the same brand that turned out ok, and then, digging in my late grandfathers pile of tools, I found two wooden planes, a jack and a scrub (or something like it, very thick irons, neither with cap irons, one with a VERY open mouth, the other much finer). Learned to hammer adjust them, and specially the jack, I use it as a big smoother really, it works that well!