Crusty Ford V-8 engine from our Pantera goes to the machine shop
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- Опубліковано 4 гру 2023
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Our freshly torn down Ford 351 Cleveland heads to the machine shop for some much need revitalization. Everything is crack checked and comes back with a clean bill of health, so it's up to Davin, Mikey, and John to breathe some new life into the rough motor.
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The machine shop is seriously a dark art these days. Idk anyone who is going to school for it. So underappreciated. We need more of you.
And booked for months to years in advanced when you do find one.
The problem is that it takes years and years to learn the trade and they business of it is hard to establish when new , in other words it’s not a very profitable business in today’s business world , you can make way more opening up an auto body shop or a mechanics shop
Most of the newer engines are throw away
One can self teach machining skills and machine tools/equipment have never been cheaper .. pick up a used lathe and mill and go at it .. far cheaper than paying for an education course.
I’m going next year!
Honestly, the Hagerty Team should be running a training program to put kids through this machining process. It's not something that's seen anywhere in the education system unless you pay big bucks to get it from an automotive performance school. Even the military won't teach you all the "ins & outs" of the machining process.
Great stuff here guys. Thanks for posting all this great content.
I got my initial machinist training in the Air Force.
@@davecaron1213 I got some while I was on board the USS Nimitz while at sea. Great fun but there was sooooo much more to learn.
Seriously. Same with top fuel drag bikes. All the drag bike teams are all old geezers and no young people around for a mile. Perfect opportunity for young people to apprentice.
My machine shop training was at a southwestern Michigan school that at the time was the number 3 high school machine shop at the time. Learned many machining practices. Finished a die for a wire manufacturer that was dead on the numbers of the blueprint. Got the school $10000 for the completion of the die.
That was the plan all along when they started pushing College in the School Systems years ago. Vilifying Trade Schools and programs.
Happy to see this return to some "classic" Redline Rebuild content! The car fixes are fun, but this is what brought me to the channel...well, technically it was the Ford 289, but having the engine builds back has been great 🙂
I started with that big Buick straight eight.
I started with the flathead rebuild
@@davecaron1213that Buick was awesome. I would love to see him take on a 356 or 359 Packard.
I truly appreciate seeing what happens when you send a block to a machine shop. This seems to be the only channel on youtube that shows that. Keep up the great work. Look forward to seeing that pantera back on the road. 👍👍
Hopefully recommending another UA-cam channel is ok. Check out @jamsionline for more great automotive machine shop content.
I love to watch machine work. Another good channel is @jamsionline - Jim's Automotive Machine Shop Inc. They do some really detailed and descriptive videos on a lot of different engines and machines.
Second recommendation for Jims
They sometimes do livestreams too, and will occasionally answer a good question from the viewers in real time
I show a lot of work that Ed Smith does as well
@@galencaudill6462 except many people add value to the car that has the matching engine, especially a exotic Pantera, like this is…
I thought when they rolled it out of the shed this was going to be a 2 episode series maybe 3. This is my favorite Hagerty series ever. Even with the process so far over my head, its gripping content. I can't help but marvel at the skill level of these people. Davin is great at leading through the whole process. So Cool
Seeing the slo mo of milling, drilling and tapping really shows up
what is going on in the normally unseen world of machining.
Well done Fellas!!
Give the Jims Automotive channel a look, if your interested in seeing MUCH more detailed walks through of this type of engine work. 👍
Yeah those old machines are romantic. I used to mill logs for homes with 110 year old machines. It’s really cool.
As a machinist myself, who occasionally does engine work, watching you work is amazing. I hope you never stop making detailed videos like this, you definitely have loads of talent and knowledge.
With all small block Ford V8's, when possible i will drill out the oil drain holes in the heads. Then, when possible i will polish those holes. Sounds like overkill, but i haven't had any small block Ford engine fail yet. Only been doing this since 1984.
Please keep the videos going on this Pantera all the way to reassembly, firing back up, test driving all the way to mods, testing, etc. I am living my dream of this car in this series..
Old school shops like that joint build some bulletproof stuff man.
And most folks can afford it
Gonna have to follow along
It's like watching a form of 3D ARTWORK - bringing this 'Crusty Ford V8' back to life so she can perform once again in all her glory in the 'canvas' which is the Pantera.
You touched on how deep you can & can't drill. I drilled the oil passage front to back on a 2.3L Ford engine to get better flow up top to the cam and followers & only just barely breached one heder bolt holes. I bottom tapped it and locktighted a fitting in, then shortened that one bolt. The 2.3L usually need a cam & followers after approx. 50k and I still had 60lbs oil pressure @ 200k miles. Another factor was after 1k miles break in, I tore it apart and hand fitted all the bearings. These steps to balance & line hone you are doing are just a few of the key steps to a lasting engine. I bet this engine will out live you.
Back in the day, the schools had metal and wood shop, as well as auto shop. I spent 35+ years as a manual machinist and it HAS become a "lost" art. Was pretty hard to find folks who could do the job, let alone stand most of the day...
i took a machining class this semester and let me tell you it’s not an easy job at all but it’s so rewarding once you finish your part and everything is in tolerance
I know it is too late, but to possibly help the next guy/gal, Cleveland’s are known for core shift when casting. It is best to sonically test the cylinders for thickness before boring. 30 over is generally max overbore without testing. Again generally. As a life long clevo guy, glad you are saving one.
Put those brass bushings in a freezer before hammering them in next time
So much improvement on this old lump. Oil distribution, roller setup, external balance, etc. This engine shouldn't need major work ever again given how lightly these cars are used now. I echo others sentiments about the disappearing full service machine shop. Gone are the days you could drop an engine off for work locally. It almost always involves shipping and a long nail-biting wait to get it back hoping the business doesn't end up in receivership with your numbers matching castings still in process.
I was a machinist many years ago, in fact I actually did the much of the machining on the Lunar Rover drive units. I really miss taking a chunk of raw metal and making a finished part out of it. And yes, it is a dark art.
I love watching you guys build engines and the quality work you always do but really bushing the lifter bores is overkill unless you plan on 8k rpm sprints.A simpler way to restrict oil is to use pushrods with smaller holes and it actually works great.I've ran Clevelands my whole life and never really bought in to whole oil starvation thing.The oil system might have been backwards but Ive taken apart many 351c with over 200k miles and the crank journals always showed very little and even wear.On a street driven car I think these mods are not worth it as the engines oiling system however backwards it may be has always done its job on the engines I have dealt with.Also I would be extremely nervous about getting all those brass fragments out of the block!
Fascinating process you’ve shown here. I find it interesting how much work goes into a rebuild, especially one that involves unraveling the ravages of time these engines suffer. It makes me wonder if some of these engines left the factory with deficiencies built right in. You mentioned that the oil passages were oversized which created the over oiling problem. That’s similar to the flathead engines with the oversized cooling passages that allowed too much coolant to flow, causing overheating issues due to the coolant moving through the system without being able to dissipate the heat. Thank you to all of the fine craftsmen involved in these videos, what you do is absolute magic.
My God, what a job! This engine has to last 200 thousand miles at least!
TrickFlow makes a pushrod for 351C with a restricted oil passage that takes care of the upper cylinder over-oiling. No need for the lifter bore bushing. I have EXCELLENT oil pressure to the crank and rod bearings now. The other 'Must Do' on a 351C, to take care of the factory uneven cooling that causes overheating of the rear cylinders, is to insert a bronze freeze plug under the thermostat and drill a tiny 'air bleed' hole in the center of it. You then can use a 'standard' 160° thermostat instead of paying for the expensive 'Cleveland Only' thermostat. Car runs at 175° all day.
Thank you for giving as much technical details as possible! Helps to educate us all!
Love watching this whole process!!! thank you Guys!!!
Awesome, learning a lot and gaining a lot of appreciation for this work.
so your BLOCK IS A BOSS 351 Cleveland ! 4v = 500 hp is an easy squeeze . super power monster = nice thanks and keep up the good work !
This hands on engineering is great to watch
I really love these long format videos full of information and especially this one with the technical machinery and how they work is really fascinating so thank you guys very much and keep them coming! Lee
Never seen this hole process explain any better. Thank you
What a lot of work... I'm impressed
I’m loving this project! What an awesome car the Pantera is!
I sure am glad you know what you are doing. Wow!
Absolutely great watching all of these craftsmen working on this engine. I hope this never becomes a lost art.
Spent my senior year working on a friend’s Cleveland. Love that motor.
So happy to see a channel doing a Cleveland and not another SBC or LS engine thanks guys so much more interesting
Having worked in an old school engine shop in the early 80s my biggest buzz was giving motors that looked like they were gone a new lease of life. Marinised motors especially..................
Great build! Restricting the lifter bores, or sleeving them for wear, in either case is a good time to check the block for core shift in the lifter gallery area. Some engines are prone to that and can affect lifter & cam wear, valvetrain geometry, etc. especially for a performance build. I don't believe the Cleveland is prone to that though. Will be following this series! I love the Pantera.
Thanks....good stuff ..looking forward to seeing more.
Really cant wait to hear it start up. Awesome work so far!
I enjoy watching these steps of rebuilding an engine.
Love this build and boy is this kid lucky to have a dad who is respected by all you guys cuz his engine is getting the top notch treatment
Wonderful to watch professional machines and operators in action
Absolutely beautiful to watch. Shop work needs to be higher on the curriculum worldwide.
Love the Pantera since I was a kid in the 80's! This is so cool to see the original engine being rebuilt!
Down here in the antipodes,we even used the 351 Cleveland with a 3" stroke and 6.03" inch rod..Even with the greatly reduced conrod loads and 188 to 240 horsepower, the 130 to 90 thou wall thickness Cleveland would split or get perforated bores. Ford Australia even had a lawsuit taken against them for sleeving Cleveland blocks from the factory as a way to reduce scraping the blocks with poor core shift. I'm glad your doing what the Australian factory did with the imported US Cleveland Engine Plant 2 tooling, sent to Australias Geelong line, after the short deck Cleveland engine run finished in mid 1974..
All great Machine Shops, brings back good Ole memories, most younger people don't realize what it takes going thru all the fine detail work of a high class machine shop..nice work an filming an explaing everpart tks too all..guys
This is so zen to watch, I'm truly envious of your skill and mastery to rebuild this great engine and bring her back to life.
It’s gratifying to see a guy like John working on those heads. Judging by some of the guys about that age that my two daughters drag home, who can’t even drive a straight shift, I’d about lost my faith in the current state of manhood in this country. But I guess my girls are looking in the wrong place, or not looking hard enough, because seeing a young guy like John, with his knowledge and skills, proves there’s still hope for manliness in America.
agree that we need to elevate the trades more, and appreciate the skills of the tradesmen. OTOH, its a big world out there and there's room for all kinds of people.
It seems that even reading a six-inch scale is too much. Let alone a dial indicator. It took an old guy to show me with a lot of wise cracks and patience. But I learned how to get it right and made my share of mistakes. I noticed that that old guy was sharper than he looked. The Guys and Gals out there Like John are truly reassuring that all isn't lost. Yup worked with some Gals that were handy on a Bridgeport or Cadillac turret lathe. They were no joke. You know I really enjoy this build. The 1st run up should be interesting.
Looks like you're having fun David. Thanks for sharing with us.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge 🙏🏻 😊
The was super interesting, thank you guys for the education!
I really like the episodes at the machine shops. The machines are fascinating.
That's going to be a bad ass motor. Looking forward to seeing more of the process.
I was not aware of the oiling issue you mentioned/corrected. Gotta be honest, the "pucker factor" reaming the block would be intense! Thanks for the full walk through - like others have written - this is becoming a lost art sadly. ~ Chuck
Absolutely loved this video. Almost therapeutic!! 😊 Keep up the awesome content!
Fell over laughing, 'piece of cake, anybody.......' which goes to show, even here in old Europe we're losing out on technically & mechanically interested people who can help save stuff from being thrown away......Thx big time to you people over 'The Pond' 😊🙏👏👍
I wish I had known about doing this kind of work when I was younger. I loved machine shop in school and I like working on engines.
Thoroughly enjoyed this episode, the details of the "build" are great, and I have worked with the guys at Thirlby's myself on several builds, they are professional, quick and look out for your interest. Cheers!
Thank you for your knowledge...that should idle like it's not running..you and your machine shop are wicked good..
I have an intact 351c in the shop corner never been taken apart, and another on the engine stand. I need to get back to work on these things.
Interested to Know id your going to Glyptol all the internal surfaces of the block and heads for better oil drain back to the pan
I'm thinking if you made the oil drain holes bigger in the lifter valley it would return the oil must quicker to the pan. I had a 302 block machined at our Ford Guru Machine shop in Charles City, VA and he open up the rear of the lifter valley,. He told me that this will drain the oil a lot quicker to the oi; pan. This was for a 331 Stroker I built for my 1995 Mustang GT.
Amazing episode, love watching the rebuild/restoration of this engine. Can't wait for it to be installed and showing burnouts.
Great job! Can't wait to see this run.
My uncle used to race in the mid 70s had the same problem with a high RPM SBC and he solved the problem by putting pipe cleaners into the push rods got to love old school ingenuity
What a pleassure this videos are to watch dude, Davin, the crew at the machine shop, john at Apex comp just all people doing the work we love to watch and the knoledge and passion the have for it to tho. Can't wait to see this engine im the pantera again but first... In the stand.. ready to roar to life again, healthy and better than ever was, thanks again for sharing all this things hagerty, hope it never ends❤ Keep up the work guys!
I just recently sold all my old Cleveland stuff. 4-bolt blocks, closed chamber 4v heads, closed chamber Ausie heads too. All were already done with screw in studs, guide plates etc....
There is so much knowledge here its overwhelming.
A really great machine shop (like this one), are very hard to come by nowadays. These guy's really know their stuff as far as machining blocks, heads, and balancing everything out to perfection. 😊
Every time you see a beautiful clean classic running around, you got to thank these very hard working guys in these very gritty workshops!
Amazing Historical Fun Review - Thanks for sharing.
Amazed the block was refurbished. Thank you for sharing.
I learn so much from this show. Keep up the great work!
I rocked out one of thoses kwikway boring bars in my shop for a long time.
I think the machine shop visits are my favorite part of every rebuild!
Can't wait to hear this motor ROAR!
Same
Thank you for sharing!
Good timing. Got my quote for $1,300 worth of boring, decking, honing and a bath yesterday from my "local" 80mi away machine shop lol
I traved all 50 states and went to the Ford Casting plant in Clevland, walked in saw them pour blocks also had a 70 Mach ! in high school and when I drove home there would be 3 girls waiting for a ride every day and the last one home got the best ride.
I admire the work with lifter oil gallery's to reduce so much oil getting pumped up top... but most people I know increase the size of drain holes in middle of block to let extra oil drain back down ...fit a bigger volume sump with baffles and get on with life
All it takes is the Knowledge (Experience) , the right equipment/tools and patience to work through and around problems . Great content please keep Us updated ! Thank You & Best Wishes . 🇺🇸🇵🇷🦊👍
Can't wait to see the Pantera back on the road!
This is pretty cool to see. Im currently working in a factory machining aluminum valve bodies with the intent of taking what i learn there and one day having my own machine shop
Thank you for sharing, always a pleasure watch your project, i learn a lot 👍👍👍👍
I'm a simple man. I see a 351C and I hit the thumbs up button.
Same!
Building an engine really is quite. Complex operation but you guys make it look so easy
Yella terra in Australia sells race rockers for Cleveland that doesn't need guide plates.. they have lots of cool stuff for Clevelands..
The lifter bushings is a good update.
Awesome project. These videos are truly enjoyable, very good shooting and editing. 🎬👍
Thanks for using a 351c that just happens to be what I am looking to do on this one iam building, my block was sitting for 40 yr in a humid environment, iam hoping cylinders will go 030 from being so rusty, I will be bushing lifter bores also, enough of my flapping gums, Thanks for this great video guys👍🏻💯💯💯
Love the rebuild videos. Really educational.
Been waiting for this update!
Gotta love it, when a new Hagerty Drops. very interesting episode guys.
Some serious old school machining equipment.
12:38 " et voilà ! ..." Greetings from France 😉
Hey! Great build to watch, I was always interested in the Pantera, and seeing its engine down to bare block is fantastic. Just remember, when machining, use oil and not WD40 to lubricate the tool!! WD is more a detergent than a lubricant, it doesn't do good for the tool
The extensive use of reamers is deeply satisfying. It's a woefully under-represented method to get perfectly sized and impeccably smooth holes.
Really loving this series, great job. Very interesting machining upgrades on the 351,
Excellent work and explanations!!!!!!
Man, I only watch this channel because of Davin's classes! Thank you teacher! 👏👏👏👏
I did the same work your engine machinist does. Saw many blocks twisted at the decks like this one. I always assumed they moved from heat and a lifetime of running in a street car. Some blocks were as much as about .010" twisted from side to side.......I used a Storm Vulcan 85B to mill blocks and heads and bored blocks with the same Kwik-Way your guy is using.....Did that for over 10 years....
I'm a Chevy guy, but I found this totally fascinating and very well done. Thanks!