I'd forgotten all about this video. I love vintage instruments like these. It's a testament to the manufacturer and subsequent owners' care and maintenance that it remains endearing and beautiful to the ear. These are little works of exquisite art and it's a pleasure to see them giving enjoyment in the hands of a competent player, able to help us appreciate it for what it was and still is.
My Besson cornet from the same time period has "prototype" written on it as well. Mine also has all of the pipes to play in different keys. I also have compression issues with my valves.
Hey Trent, I wanna say that I have band auditions tomorrow to see what middle school band I will be in in eighth grade and despite the fact that my director said I'd be section leader for sure, I'm still pretty scared but I just wanna say that watching your videos has helped me get a better understanding of musical instruments so thank you.
Lovely sound. If you ever get to western Colorado (it sounds like another state and thinks it is totally separate from Denver and Colorado Springs) come by and play music with the community band here:)
You can definitely hear the somewhat fussiness in the tone because of the the valves but it kind of gives it a nice mellow tone, almost like a flugelhorn
Hi Trent, txs for the good work. Nice cornet. 'Prototype' models were a publicity stunt, the wording means nothing special, only that they would find the nicest tubing sections arrangements out of a group of other tubing sections (mathematically 'proven' to produce the best sounding instruments), call it a 'Prototype' and reproduce it in the most exact way (by early XX century standards...).
many horn builders of the day hand built prototypes to prove a concept or prefect the production methods some did not have plated valves mainly display models for shows and not made for the long haul. some would be sent to top players who wrote a report on the horn. this horn might have been made to introduce the e flat keyed horn. or a new design. if you invested in a valve job and coated them with Monel and lapped in you would have a much better playing horn.
Hi Trent. I'm new to.your channel, but have watched quite a lot of your videos and have enjoyed them! I have been playing trumpet for 7 years and am thinking of taking up the Flugelhorn as a second instrument. Is there any chance you could make a video of the "pros and cons" of playing the Flugelhorn. Thank you
Hey Trent, I've been a follower for sometime now and I've got a Besson and Co Prototype Type A Bb Baritone Horn from the same time. I can happily send you a video of it and playing a piece (please bare in mind I'm ungraded and playing in a 4th section band, so I won't be like Brighouse standard :P )
"Better intonation" depends on what Eb Soprano cornets happen to be available... most of the serious modern soprano cornets (Eclipse, Stomvi, Schilke - if you get a good one, Yamaha Neo) have tuning that's atleast on a par with the better Eb trumpets. And Eb trumpet projection simply does not fit properly in a brass band - yes, they project more, but that isn't always an advantage (and case in point, it's often NOT an advantage in a brass band to project too much... and especially so on sop).
Absolutely there's a trade-off (same with everything though in fairness, particularly mouthpieces). Certainly the best of the modern Eb cornets (Eclipse, Blackburn, Stomvi) stand up to any Eb trumpet where intonation is concerned - and they project more than well enough to be heard through some very loud bands indeed. There's definitely a different approach in American and British bands - different sounds, different attitudes... American brass band cornet players tend to be trumpet players primarily, where in the UK you'll find scores of very serious cornet players willing to pick up a trumpet where necessary - I suppose it's understandable that trumpet players might favour an Eb trumpet they're somewhat familiar with to an Eb cornet they don't... having said that, this is kinda why even the best american brass bands just don't *quite* get the essence of the british style - sometimes to their credit, usually not.
And yes, pulling the slides a smidge would get it to play more in tune with modern bands... but the whole design (along with which mouthpieces work with it, etc) belongs to a very different era - even if you could get it in tune, the tone is simply different, those old bands had brighter, crisper tones with less weight behind them than modern brass bands do (a different approach and result again).
You can get relatively thick valve oil to compensate for the wear in older instruments. Maybe keeping a bottle or two around for any older stuff you acquire would have its merits.
You *can* use thick valve oil, but it's only really papering over the cracks... and it's only useful up to a point anyway. Having said that - if you want to know whether it's worth having the valves rebuilt, playing it with thicker oil would give you a good idea of the improvement you can expect in the playing characteristics.
so i poked around the internet and found out that there are many people doing valve rebuilds ... expensive but the restoration can be better than new. i'm surprised trent never mentions this. his attitude seems to be oh well this instrument has reached the end of its life
I don't see why valve clusters _can't_ be overbored and sleeved. I'd say that was part of the plan when they were first developed, but the lifespan turned out to be so long that most people never bothered.
Scott Sakurai I don't see why not, but that doesn't necessarily mean there's not a reason - maybe it played different, maybe the extra cost was seen as not worth it... Maybe what we have is simply considered more than sufficient lifespan for most instruments and easily enough repaired for the minority that ever exceed that whilst still valued enough by their owners to be repaired?
prototype is a model name. besson/boosey (boosey acquired besson) model history is relatively comprehensive on the interwebs. brass valves do not have "compression" like a car. they have seal or lack of it. yes the condition is astonishing
That cornet is respectively a piece of history, right in front of us. it has stories to tell, but sadly it cannot speak as it only *d o o t s .*
I'd forgotten all about this video. I love vintage instruments like these. It's a testament to the manufacturer and subsequent owners' care and maintenance that it remains endearing and beautiful to the ear. These are little works of exquisite art and it's a pleasure to see them giving enjoyment in the hands of a competent player, able to help us appreciate it for what it was and still is.
I play sop in a brass band and love it. Great video!
Clearly still in "high pitch". I remember the kerfuffle in the 1960's when all existing brass instruments had their little extra bits of tubing added!
Lovely tone.
I want episode three of you fixing the 1926 Bb tuba! I really enjoy that series!
I love the sop, it used to be my favourite instrument to play
"Prototype" as in the standard all other manufacturers try to match. "Quite possibly the most beautiful melody ever written".
This man deserves more views and subs. Not gonna lie.
I have recently acquired a Besson & Co "Prototype" tenor horn so I think "Prototype" is a model name or series name.
My Besson cornet from the same time period has "prototype" written on it as well. Mine also has all of the pipes to play in different keys. I also have compression issues with my valves.
Great playing!
Hey Trent, I wanna say that I have band auditions tomorrow to see what middle school band I will be in in eighth grade and despite the fact that my director said I'd be section leader for sure, I'm still pretty scared but I just wanna say that watching your videos has helped me get a better understanding of musical instruments so thank you.
Is the cornet in high pitch? Sounds almost as if it's pitched in E natural
E flat i believe
What a beautiful sound on that soprano.
Sounds nice!
Lovely sound. If you ever get to western Colorado (it sounds like another state and thinks it is totally separate from Denver and Colorado Springs) come by and play music with the community band here:)
I betcha It plays SWEET!!!
You can definitely hear the somewhat fussiness in the tone because of the the valves but it kind of gives it a nice mellow tone, almost like a flugelhorn
Happy birthyear Cornet 😁
Yeah I have a tuba mouthpiece from them around the same time and it also says prototype.
Hi Trent, txs for the good work. Nice cornet. 'Prototype' models were a publicity stunt, the wording means nothing special, only that they would find the nicest tubing sections arrangements out of a group of other tubing sections (mathematically 'proven' to produce the best sounding instruments), call it a 'Prototype' and reproduce it in the most exact way (by early XX century standards...).
What music is this you play? 4:43
definitely Camille Saint-Saëns's "The Swan"
many horn builders of the day hand built prototypes to prove a concept or prefect the production methods some did not have plated valves mainly display models for shows and not made for the long haul. some would be sent to top players who wrote a report on the horn. this horn might have been made to introduce the e flat keyed horn. or a new design. if you invested in a valve job and coated them with Monel and lapped in you would have a much better playing horn.
Could the unique lyre holder be an add-on?
Do you play an Eb cornet with the same grips as an Bb trumpet?
He starts playing it at 4:43
Old background? OwO
I'm actually curious if you plan to do a special piece this year to commemorate the centennial Armistice Day.
Cool Trent
What's the difference between a cornet and a flugelhorn? Is the flugel to the cornet what the cornet is to a trumpet?
Luke Payne I mean sound wise not appearance
you see em' in jazz pieces pretty often too.
Luke Payne you never listened to any chuck mangione? We had one in jazz band back in high school too.
Let me play you the song of Mega-Lo Mart.
mal-2.bandcamp.com/track/jacquinqui
Same "band":
mal-2.bandcamp.com/track/labrat-love
i have an even older besson in Bb, silver also. third valve messed up but otherwise ok.
And yeah that is high pitch. It would need a new lead pipe to play anywhere today
Hi Trent. I'm new to.your channel, but have watched quite a lot of your videos and have enjoyed them! I have been playing trumpet for 7 years and am thinking of taking up the Flugelhorn as a second instrument. Is there any chance you could make a video of the "pros and cons" of playing the Flugelhorn. Thank you
There are cons???
Hey Trent,
I've been a follower for sometime now and I've got a Besson and Co Prototype Type A Bb Baritone Horn from the same time. I can happily send you a video of it and playing a piece (please bare in mind I'm ungraded and playing in a 4th section band, so I won't be like Brighouse standard :P )
Trent do u have a cimbasso?
you can still buy these holders today
I own a cornet from 1908 :)
Intro song?
Why does he transpose it like an Alto sax?
Both instruments are pitched in e flat
The valves need plated the compression is terrible. But it's cute. In the USA brass bands usually use an Eb trumpet...better intonation and projection
"Better intonation" depends on what Eb Soprano cornets happen to be available... most of the serious modern soprano cornets (Eclipse, Stomvi, Schilke - if you get a good one, Yamaha Neo) have tuning that's atleast on a par with the better Eb trumpets.
And Eb trumpet projection simply does not fit properly in a brass band - yes, they project more, but that isn't always an advantage (and case in point, it's often NOT an advantage in a brass band to project too much... and especially so on sop).
EnglishTMTB good points. There is always a trade-off. I'm sure some modern Eb cornets are better.
Some slide pulls would help but that would destroy the integrity of an old instrument
Absolutely there's a trade-off (same with everything though in fairness, particularly mouthpieces).
Certainly the best of the modern Eb cornets (Eclipse, Blackburn, Stomvi) stand up to any Eb trumpet where intonation is concerned - and they project more than well enough to be heard through some very loud bands indeed.
There's definitely a different approach in American and British bands - different sounds, different attitudes...
American brass band cornet players tend to be trumpet players primarily, where in the UK you'll find scores of very serious cornet players willing to pick up a trumpet where necessary - I suppose it's understandable that trumpet players might favour an Eb trumpet they're somewhat familiar with to an Eb cornet they don't... having said that, this is kinda why even the best american brass bands just don't *quite* get the essence of the british style - sometimes to their credit, usually not.
And yes, pulling the slides a smidge would get it to play more in tune with modern bands... but the whole design (along with which mouthpieces work with it, etc) belongs to a very different era - even if you could get it in tune, the tone is simply different, those old bands had brighter, crisper tones with less weight behind them than modern brass bands do (a different approach and result again).
Hello what's up Trent.
The Swan by Saint-Saëns!
I got one from the year 1875...
emocionante
You can get relatively thick valve oil to compensate for the wear in older instruments. Maybe keeping a bottle or two around for any older stuff you acquire would have its merits.
Alex Paulsen i'm wondering if people have tried coating an old valve with epoxy etc and grinding it back to original dimensions
You *can* use thick valve oil, but it's only really papering over the cracks... and it's only useful up to a point anyway.
Having said that - if you want to know whether it's worth having the valves rebuilt, playing it with thicker oil would give you a good idea of the improvement you can expect in the playing characteristics.
so i poked around the internet and found out that there are many people doing valve rebuilds ... expensive but the restoration can be better than new. i'm surprised trent never mentions this. his attitude seems to be oh well this instrument has reached the end of its life
I don't see why valve clusters _can't_ be overbored and sleeved. I'd say that was part of the plan when they were first developed, but the lifespan turned out to be so long that most people never bothered.
Scott Sakurai
I don't see why not, but that doesn't necessarily mean there's not a reason - maybe it played different, maybe the extra cost was seen as not worth it...
Maybe what we have is simply considered more than sufficient lifespan for most instruments and easily enough repaired for the minority that ever exceed that whilst still valued enough by their owners to be repaired?
prototype is a model name. besson/boosey (boosey acquired besson) model history is relatively comprehensive on the interwebs. brass valves do not have "compression" like a car. they have seal or lack of it. yes the condition is astonishing
sup fam
I've played one of those& is that a Yamaha
Hgpatton 99 it’s a boosey - besson
Beautifull music fam...i want to die still tho
Long lost descendant of Alexander Hamilton?
Trombone fan 56(Caleb.Witt) Trent Hamilton you have a lot of musical instruments can you give me a cornet and a trumpet.
🎺😀
Noice
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Nerf Kid Pateron supports are first, sorry.
I'm the first dislike😂
It almost sounds a half step above an Eb Soprano, is this built in High pitch?
I agree. It is definitely in E major.
E F# G# A B C# D# E, right?
Well yeah, but the cornet itself was built in a higher pitch. The key sig is correct, but it sounds higher, probably a=443 or something like that
probably more like a=452 or something if it's really that high
if I remember correctly the old high pitch tuning was A=454
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