Hey guys. A few people are asking why there wasn't more talk about the user experience with the zen stream such as the UI. The main reason I didn't talk about this is because actually, you likely won't even need to touch it. You just turn it on and it will automatically be detected by Roon, hqplayer, foobar upnp etc. The only time you'd need to use the UI is if you're changing WiFi settings (which was quite simple) or setting up some more complex network accessible storage through it which I don't think is applicable to the majority of users. So in terms of 'hows the user experience' , it's great cause for most people it will be effectively automatic :) I did not try using it as a server as I imagine that's not how the vast majority of users will be using it. I'll probably do a video in future about the different server/organisation options like Roon, Volumio, BluOS etc and will revisit the Zen Stream as a server specifically then. Seems that's where most of the complaints about software are coming from. If you've encountered any issues with the Zen Stream in terms of UI/Software, please do let me know so that I can try to recreate them and will discuss them in that upcoming video. Not wanting to 'gloss over' any faults/issues with the product, but the reason the UI was not discussed is because in the ways I was testing it with Roon, spotify, foobar etc, it basically wasn't needed to be used at all so I had no problems.
@@blejzerosamigos6115 as said its automatic for stuff like tidal connect, Spotify etc. Just put it in that mode (or aio mode) and the player will find it automatically Its only if you're wanting to use it as a volumio music SERVER that you need to get a bit deeper in the UI and that's gonna be a problem. But that's not something I imagine is applicable to the vast majority of users and not something I used it as. Volumio is quite well liked generally though so should be fine
@@blejzerosamigos6115 For some devices. My primary DAC is a Holo May which is almost entirely immune to USB source changes due to the full galvanic isolation. But with other devices yes
Hi Man, great review as always. Love your own channel too. What upgrade do you see in changing the PSU to the Ifi Elite unit over the iPower unit. Does PSU matter at all here? Thanks
It’s really great having someone with strong source/DAC expertise contributing to this channel in addition to all the great headphone/IEM/amp guys. I know they all overlap a bit but I felt digital was getting pretty short shrift here until now. Thanks and keep it up with the great balanced content.
Great video! Super clear and easy to understand, even for someone relatively new to the Audiophile space like myself. Also, I really appreciate the clarity and articulation with which you presented. And the audio quality was next level. Well done all round. 😁👍
Super clear speech. Last year I bought a Zen as a Tidal connect device. I hadn't used it for local playback (USB stick/external SSD) until yesterday, because I ran into problems. However, yesterday that was resolved and I have to say that for the price it delivers mind-blowing sound quality. It can easily replace a much more expensive source. Seriously.
Have owned one of these since it came out. Great sound and beautiful to look at. Works very well with my stereo and headphones setups. Just remember to update the firmware when those come through (it’s simple). Also, remember to turn off and on from time to time. Have discovered that, like a computer, gremlins are born when you don’t reboot often
Seems like a great product. But the Wiim Mini also has inaudible jitter when using the digital output (see AudioScienceReview review) and costs 70-100$ instead of 400$!
@@TheHEADPHONEShow That would be great! I have it and I'm very satisfied (it has 10-band EQ!). There's also a new Wiim Pro that has some additional connectivity.
WOW! This can get so complicated…I am using Qubuz via Ethernet to a Mercury Streamer to a Pontus II DAC via a high grade I2S cable…then balanced outputs to my Schiit Loki Max then balanced outputs to Schiit Freya + PreAmp. The whole clock thing makes my head spin 😵💫 My system sounds good! but…how good! 😂😂😂Have you tested the Gustard A26 or R26? They are supposed to be HOT STUFF! 👍🏼
I like this video. It was very educational. I had to turn on my brain to understand the words you are saying! I am a simple person that only cares about playing video games who does not care about listening to Roon or Tidal. I wonder if that audio streamer can connect to a DAC? I ask this because when I buy a flagship DAC/Class A amp, it would improve the performance like low noise or low jitter from your audio equipment. Is this true? Will it make my DAC sound better? Can I connect this to a computer to reduce noise floor for example?
For jitter, if it is on picosecond timescale and the study is saying nanosecond is perceivable, then I think this is a point that shouldn’t be made in trying to say that the zen stream is good compared to the competition. Maybe if you said something about getting picosecond time resolution for molecular motion, although nowadays that’s not so monumental (see attosecond spectroscopy)
The noise levels shown at approx. 3:15 minutes are below 20 kHz still better than - 100 dB and therefore inaudible. Since the iFi Zen is supposed to be buggy why not use a Raspberry Pi as streamer..?
The Zen Stream software is based on Volumio so in terms of UI etc it'll be nearly identical. As to quality, jitter isn't a factor cause you'd be comparing USB, but the Zen Stream will have lower noise USB output. Though both are very clean especially if you use a decent PSU on the pi
@@GoldenSound that's what I was interested in. I've read that the system is volumio based and since I have it on Rpi4, I was wondering whether there will be significant difference
@@DieNowDeus Thanks for posting your question, since I had the same question. I am also running Volumio on a Rpi4 setup. I output through USB to a Schiit Modi/Magni stack. I love the Volumio software (started out using PiCorePlayer) and I utilize the Fusion DSP plugin for my equalizer.
Trying to understand what could be the reason to prefer this more expensive product to a wiim mini. Potentially the jitter on wiim is worst than on this and depending on our dac that might influence sound quality? Is that all? (imagining wiim mini provides you with all the connections you may want).
Curious why you didn’t mention the pi2aes device that impressed you so much in the ddc video and can also be used as a streamer with software like Volumio
Hi there do you have any experience with the aqua acoustics quality formula xhd rev2 Dac. I would like to see you do a review of this product. Cheers Shane. 👍🙂🎧
I have been eying this for a while. If only it came with DiRAC I would have been all over it. Does a good pure digital transport only w. DiRAC exist? - are there options? Hoping for a revision of this one soon… BTW - would love your take on Apple AirPlay 2 vs 1 vs alternatives
Hello. Great video. I learned a lot. I have a question. Is there a good idea to connect DDC converter on the way from ifi Zen Stream to AMP/DAC? Is there a chance that DDC converter might improve sound?
Interesting….in the end, it’s always down to what it sounds like to you. I run an IFI Go Blue ( both Bluetooth and Wired) off my iPhone phone ( Amazon music hd ) …so why get another box that in reality is a source ….sounds like a very specific application. Yes , Apple has output limitations ..but past the red book..can you really tell 🤷🏻♂️
No for the spring 3 that has full galvanic isolation on the USB input and excellent jitter performance so this wouldn't be a benefit other than use case/separate room etc
Great content. Would the Matrix Audio Element H and Matrix Audio X-SPDIF 3 be considered "reclockers"? If so, and no evidence exists to support any claimed improvement, then that would explain why The Headphone Show has not, and probably will not, review these products. Sounds like I would be better off investing in a high quality USB cable to run from my PC's motherboard to my DAC. I would assume higher quality DACs (Denafrips ARES II, Bifrost 2, Burson Composer, etc) would have better clocks and therefore would not benefit from something like the Zen stream, Element H, or X-SPDIF3.
I really appreciate Golden's technical detail. I did not know that with USB only the DAC's clock controls jitter. I have an sms200 ultra neo with a tx-usb ultra reclocker. I guess the reclocker can't improve my sound?
So the SMS200 is one I'd like to revisit at somepoint. With USB, almost all modern systems use UAC2.0, in which case yeah the DAC is entirely in control of timing. However UAC1.0 this was not the case. With the SMS200, I noticed when poking around the software that the controller was being reported to linux as USB1.0 even though the bandwidth exceeds USB1.0 capability. So it could be that there's something a bit more complex at play with that particular device. I unfortunately no longer have mine but at somepoint hopefully I'll be able to borrow one and do some more thorough testing.
Dude. Your level of understanding into technical details and application of principles is on another level like a being from a more advanced planet. It's actually a little bit demoralizing how little I know.
@@davidfriedman5154 all you should know is that the advertisements on jitter are typically misleading due to picosecond to femtosecond time resolution being imperceptible. Did you know that on the order of picoseconds, this equates to a SLOW bond vibration?
I've got a Naim NAC N272 that no longer is recognized by the new Naim/Focal App. I've always used Tidal HiFi. I'm thinking of placing an iFi Zen Stream connected via internet to my router and via SPDIF to the DAC in the NAC N272. I'm thinking I can then stream using the Tidal application. Anybody have thoughts about a problem with this approach?
the sound is good but the device is full of bugs - unusable...If you want a good and stable Volumio based device with better sound get the Volumio Rivo.
I already manage to brick/break 2 units. Something pretty wrong with their customized volumio... Wlan interface disappeared from ifconfig.....dealing with ifi audio support again....
I had the Zen stream it was an excellent streamer. Only reason I moved on is my current DAC has a built in streamer that sound just as good if not better.
this review feels incomplete. how is it to use? i feel like that was glossed over. you talk about what methods you can use to stream to it, but not what the experience is like. which streaming methods did you use when you tested its sound quality? which firmware version was your review done with? etc, etc. your reviews are usually so wonderfully comprehensive that this one felt strange.
Jitter/performance didn't change dependant on which streaming method was being used. It was the same for all to within margin of error. As to usability. There's not too much to talk about here. You basically just connect it, turn it on, then stuff like Roon and hqplayer or the foobar upnp plug in find it automatically. You don't even actually have to touch the zen stream UI at all unless you wanted to connect a HDD to it or something. I did actually initially have some more stuff in this vid but most of it was basically just describing how roon/hqp/upnp-dnla casting works and felt unnecessary so I took it out. Given the somewhat busy and technical nature of the video I wanted to keep it a bit shorter just to make sure that the important info either about streamers or the zen stream specifically was the focus
Not sure I’d be calling this a “review” when there’s no discussion on what the Zen Stream is like to setup or how the interface is to use. And those are two key points that need to be covered with this unit because although everybody seems to agree it’s a well designed piece of a gear from a component point of view with quality sound, that it misses the mark on setup and most importantly it’s user interface. Tons of user feedback all over the audio forums are filled with complaints that it can be difficult to setup, doesn’t work reliably and that the user interface leaves a lot to be desired. Doesn’t matter how great a piece of a gear is sound wise if it’s not easy to live with and use.
So this is the main reason I've not done full reviews of streamers and DDCs before. There's not really much to talk about here. If you want to use Roon, you just turn it to Roon on the back, it shows up in Roon and away you go. Same with hqplayer, foobar upnp etc. The only time you actually need to use the settings menu is if you're changing a specific setting like WiFi and I had no issues with that. With most streamers, unless you're trying to do a fairly unusual setup or use it as a server, there's usually almost nothing to discuss in terms of UI/usability. Ill have a peek through forums about the negative feedback but what I'd say is I didn't really have to use the UI almost at all and when I did it was fine (as it's based on volumio)
That’s all well and great if you use it as you outlined but a lot of people want to use it as a main source like so many do with a device such as Bluesound Node for example. If you try to use it in that fashion the user interface is relied on heavily and that’s where a lot of people seem to take issue with the Zen Stream. A lot of that has to do with from what I understand was iFi’s choice to use a version of Volumio that’s based on an old kernel that they modified for their purposes and called the app Stream-iFi. Reviews for that app for Android and iOS are absolutely abysmal. I can’t speak to it myself as I don’t own a Zen Stream but the feedback I saw numerous times online and in comment sections on UA-cam pertaining to connection issues and more importantly the Stream-iFi app to control it turned me away from it because I intended to use it as a streaming source. I ended up going with a Bluesound Node (N130) and it’s been absolutely fantastic. It was super easy to setup and I primarily use it to stream all my ripped music from my NAS. As such I rely on the BluOs app to control it and it’s about as well sorted as a user interface can be which is why BluOs is widely considered the gold standard out there right now (and it’s excellent user reviews for both Android and iOS seem to support that) I don’t think it’s a stretch for me to say a lot more people than you realize purchase a streamer to use it as a main source in their system to control it with their mobile device to play music which is big reason that the Bluesound Node has been such a popular device.
@@thehawk05 That's fair. In honesty I didn't explore the server aspect of it because I imagine the majority of people won't be using it this way, but it probably should have been looked at. I think I might do a separate video at somepoint looking at all the different music server/organisation options, Roon, Volumio, BluOS etc and will revisit Zen Stream as a server for that.
@@GoldenSound You should have looked at the negative feedback before doing this pointless video, as it's useless. The negative feedback is massive and needs addressing, and it's ridiculous that you avoided it. Not good enough.
What people need to understand is that these are not "Reviews" they are merely long advertisements. Very few channels actually do unbiased reviews, at the beginning they actually do but then as soon as their follower count goes up they quickly turn into QVC.
I did hear you allude to the value of this Ifi streamer so, in all interest in value for the consumer, you really should compare this streamer with that of the WiiM…
Could the headphone show consider doing a DDC shootout? Please anyone but Resolve as we know he thinks sources (amps, dacs, transports) are all relatively the same. DDCs are way under-covered in this industry especially in being able to scale a chain. Singxer SU6, SU2 KTE, Matrix SPdif 3, Gustard U18, Denafrips Iris/Gaia/hermes would all be great options to compare in a shootout.
Definitely something we could do. I actually have posted a ranking list of the DDCs I've tested so far on a couple forums. Currently the Rockna Wavedream NET and Holo Red are the two lowest jitter ones
@@GoldenSound in your opinion is the only benefit a DDC provides is the measurable reduction of jitter between source and dac ? Or do you have other perceivable benefits other than jitter that a ddc can provide?
@@aceofspades6667 Sort of, the three things that a digital source can affect are: - Data integrity - Noise - Timing Data integrity should ONLY be a factor if like the MScaler it's doing hopefully beneficial DSP. Otherwise I wouldn't want a streamer/DDC to be doing any DSP at all. Noise should be as low as possible, and so should jitter. Otherwise It's tough to see why you'd buy an expensive source in the first place if the two things that it affects are not being done well. The actual audible impact of different structures of jitter is not well documented, and so the differences in sound for DDCs may indeed be more complicated than simply higher/lower jitter, but I wouldn't recommend buying something that doesn't do the one job it's intended for well. With DACs etc, there's a LOT more factors beyond just THD, and so a single number like SINAD is not sufficient to provide a full description of sound quality. But for a digital device there's pretty much only two factors that can be different at all.
@@GoldenSound ok that is great! So you might be able to take something like a matrix spdif 3 with dual femto clocks. You put that between say a ifi zen stream and say a Dac like gustard r26 (r2r) which benefits from I2S input. The matrix may provide benefit in timing (clock) and reduced jitter over just straight ifi zen pro to r26 via usb/coax
To get the best possible "sound"(no jitter or noise) Should I get a Holo Red if I am using a Holo Spring 3 KTE via USB from "my gaming PC" ????? I dont hear any issues.
If you're using a spring 3 then actually just connect it straight to your pc. With USB jitter isn't a factor and the spring 3 has full optical galvanic isolation on the USB inputs so it's immune to noisy sources too
The bad stuff is mostly the lack of I2S/AES outputs, and sample rate limit, which is mentioned in the video. Other than that, it'd mostly just be if it doesn't have support for a service/protocol you want, but it works with all the major stuff I'm aware of. As to comparisons, I did mention a few, such as being better than the Gustard U18 and MC3+, but not as good as the Holo Red or Singxer SU6.
You should have done subjective impressions based on a couple things you had on hand, some information is better than none, even if we all have different setups
Can any users of this device confirm if IFI have removed the Chromecast function. I know IFI were having problems integrating it into the unit. Just wondering if anyone has tried setting it up in Google home to see if it sees the device. Plus icon top left in Google Home then set up device.
Very good stuff 👌One day you guys from the headphone show will also realize that EVERY audio cable makes a difference and then reviews will get really interesting 😂
None of those specs or features mean nothing if you can't use them. I've already purchased this unit. Ever since the second I hooked it up I've had nothing but a headache. This is not a plug and play device. Even though it seems simple. The user interface and experience is the worst. You do need a degree in computer software to operate this unit. I really need help setting mine up. But I don't even think I can use it. I may have accidentally bricked it. I am having trouble contacting support anywhere about anything.
I also love it, but have had quite a lot of problems with the latest firmware update. It also needs reconnecting sometimes, after waking up my PC. What I like best about it is the bass boost, which is really effective on my Deva Pro. It's like having two sets of headphones in that regard.
Please don't scare people about jitter, it's NOT a problem and hasn't been for years now. I mean just look at those example graphs you posted, the jitter is WELL below audible levels. Jitters effect on audio quality is just a myth nowadays, so I don't even understand why talk so much about audio quality but very little about the user experience. I generally like your videos, but this was just a waste of time.
Yeah pass, so many other systems that do a comparable job and have a lot of other capabilities (plus other streaming services). I could see using this type of product if you are building a dedicated listening room but that’s about it
The Wiim streamer is a nice bit of kit but the main thing with the zen stream will be the improved jitter performance. I've not tested a Wiim yet but I can't imagine it'll meet the zen stream here. If the features are the main concern though then yes a Wiim is a very nice option. A lot of people also use raspberry pi too. That can work really well if you're happy to do a bit of setup
Hey guys. A few people are asking why there wasn't more talk about the user experience with the zen stream such as the UI.
The main reason I didn't talk about this is because actually, you likely won't even need to touch it.
You just turn it on and it will automatically be detected by Roon, hqplayer, foobar upnp etc. The only time you'd need to use the UI is if you're changing WiFi settings (which was quite simple) or setting up some more complex network accessible storage through it which I don't think is applicable to the majority of users.
So in terms of 'hows the user experience' , it's great cause for most people it will be effectively automatic :)
I did not try using it as a server as I imagine that's not how the vast majority of users will be using it. I'll probably do a video in future about the different server/organisation options like Roon, Volumio, BluOS etc and will revisit the Zen Stream as a server specifically then. Seems that's where most of the complaints about software are coming from.
If you've encountered any issues with the Zen Stream in terms of UI/Software, please do let me know so that I can try to recreate them and will discuss them in that upcoming video.
Not wanting to 'gloss over' any faults/issues with the product, but the reason the UI was not discussed is because in the ways I was testing it with Roon, spotify, foobar etc, it basically wasn't needed to be used at all so I had no problems.
How about the people who don't use roon? How is the ui for them? Thanks
@@blejzerosamigos6115 as said its automatic for stuff like tidal connect, Spotify etc. Just put it in that mode (or aio mode) and the player will find it automatically
Its only if you're wanting to use it as a volumio music SERVER that you need to get a bit deeper in the UI and that's gonna be a problem. But that's not something I imagine is applicable to the vast majority of users and not something I used it as. Volumio is quite well liked generally though so should be fine
@@GoldenSound Thank you for clarification. So did it improved your signal path in your chain? Is it better than your PC?
@@blejzerosamigos6115 For some devices. My primary DAC is a Holo May which is almost entirely immune to USB source changes due to the full galvanic isolation. But with other devices yes
Hi Man, great review as always. Love your own channel too. What upgrade do you see in changing the PSU to the Ifi Elite unit over the iPower unit. Does PSU matter at all here? Thanks
It’s really great having someone with strong source/DAC expertise contributing to this channel in addition to all the great headphone/IEM/amp guys. I know they all overlap a bit but I felt digital was getting pretty short shrift here until now. Thanks and keep it up with the great balanced content.
Great video!
Super clear and easy to understand, even for someone relatively new to the Audiophile space like myself.
Also, I really appreciate the clarity and articulation with which you presented. And the audio quality was next level. Well done all round. 😁👍
Excellent video. I was prepared for a bunch of audiophile snake-oil nonsense, but you nailed it.
Super clear speech.
Last year I bought a Zen as a Tidal connect device. I hadn't used it for local playback (USB stick/external SSD) until yesterday, because I ran into problems. However, yesterday that was resolved and I have to say that for the price it delivers mind-blowing sound quality. It can easily replace a much more expensive source. Seriously.
This is exactly the video ive been searching for in the past week.
Have owned one of these since it came out. Great sound and beautiful to look at. Works very well with my stereo and headphones setups. Just remember to update the firmware when those come through (it’s simple). Also, remember to turn off and on from time to time. Have discovered that, like a computer, gremlins are born when you don’t reboot often
Goldensound is here now.
Its nice he is covering equipment mere mortal can afford :D
Seems like a great product. But the Wiim Mini also has inaudible jitter when using the digital output (see AudioScienceReview review) and costs 70-100$ instead of 400$!
Seems like a good product! Maybe something we can get in to check out.
@@TheHEADPHONEShow That would be great! I have it and I'm very satisfied (it has 10-band EQ!). There's also a new Wiim Pro that has some additional connectivity.
@@nadjal Won't work with Android OS though?
@@steviesteve750 I'm personally using iOS but yes there is an Android app. And also you can just use Tidal or Spotify directly.
I was just wondering what might be the point if that expensive box vs the tiny wiim mini. I guess helping us lightening our bank account some more?
WOW! This can get so complicated…I am using Qubuz via Ethernet to a Mercury Streamer to a Pontus II DAC via a high grade I2S cable…then balanced outputs to my Schiit Loki Max then balanced outputs to Schiit Freya + PreAmp. The whole clock thing makes my head spin 😵💫 My system sounds good! but…how good! 😂😂😂Have you tested the Gustard A26 or R26? They are supposed to be HOT STUFF! 👍🏼
Your presentation is ENTRHALLING. Just major kudos all around.
I have the wiim or what ever it's called and love it! Network streamers are awesome!
I like this video. It was very educational. I had to turn on my brain to understand the words you are saying! I am a simple person that only cares about playing video games who does not care about listening to Roon or Tidal. I wonder if that audio streamer can connect to a DAC? I ask this because when I buy a flagship DAC/Class A amp, it would improve the performance like low noise or low jitter from your audio equipment. Is this true? Will it make my DAC sound better? Can I connect this to a computer to reduce noise floor for example?
For jitter, if it is on picosecond timescale and the study is saying nanosecond is perceivable, then I think this is a point that shouldn’t be made in trying to say that the zen stream is good compared to the competition. Maybe if you said something about getting picosecond time resolution for molecular motion, although nowadays that’s not so monumental (see attosecond spectroscopy)
The noise levels shown at approx. 3:15 minutes are below 20 kHz still better than - 100 dB and therefore inaudible. Since the iFi Zen is supposed to be buggy why not use a Raspberry Pi as streamer..?
I'd like to see comparison of noice etc. between the zen stream and Rpi4 with volumio.
The Zen Stream software is based on Volumio so in terms of UI etc it'll be nearly identical. As to quality, jitter isn't a factor cause you'd be comparing USB, but the Zen Stream will have lower noise USB output. Though both are very clean especially if you use a decent PSU on the pi
@@GoldenSound that's what I was interested in. I've read that the system is volumio based and since I have it on Rpi4, I was wondering whether there will be significant difference
@@DieNowDeus Thanks for posting your question, since I had the same question. I am also running Volumio on a Rpi4 setup. I output through USB to a Schiit Modi/Magni stack. I love the Volumio software (started out using PiCorePlayer) and I utilize the Fusion DSP plugin for my equalizer.
Trying to understand what could be the reason to prefer this more expensive product to a wiim mini. Potentially the jitter on wiim is worst than on this and depending on our dac that might influence sound quality? Is that all? (imagining wiim mini provides you with all the connections you may want).
formidable presentation
Curious why you didn’t mention the pi2aes device that impressed you so much in the ddc video and can also be used as a streamer with software like Volumio
I’m using a pi2aes i2s to a Venus. Would a ifi Stream through USB be better?
Thanks
Hi...nice...if you compare node with this zen stream?
Hi there do you have any experience with the aqua acoustics quality formula xhd rev2 Dac. I would like to see you do a review of this product. Cheers Shane. 👍🙂🎧
I have been eying this for a while. If only it came with DiRAC I would have been all over it. Does a good pure digital transport only w. DiRAC exist? - are there options?
Hoping for a revision of this one soon…
BTW - would love your take on Apple AirPlay 2 vs 1 vs alternatives
Hello. Great video. I learned a lot. I have a question. Is there a good idea to connect DDC converter on the way from ifi Zen Stream to AMP/DAC? Is there a chance that DDC converter might improve sound?
Pretty sure a streamer is a DDC.
Excellent work, well done
nice technical explanations!
Interesting….in the end, it’s always down to what it sounds like to you.
I run an IFI Go Blue ( both Bluetooth and Wired) off my iPhone phone ( Amazon music hd ) …so why get another box that in reality is a source ….sounds like a very specific application.
Yes , Apple has output limitations ..but past the red book..can you really tell 🤷🏻♂️
Maybe come to a conclusion that isn't based of projection? Not a very intelligent thing to do.
Would this be needed with a holo spring 3 kte? Since that dac has a seperate usb and zero jitter?
No for the spring 3 that has full galvanic isolation on the USB input and excellent jitter performance so this wouldn't be a benefit other than use case/separate room etc
Excellent, excellent video. Thanks.
Great content.
Would the Matrix Audio Element H and Matrix Audio X-SPDIF 3 be considered "reclockers"? If so, and no evidence exists to support any claimed improvement, then that would explain why The Headphone Show has not, and probably will not, review these products.
Sounds like I would be better off investing in a high quality USB cable to run from my PC's motherboard to my DAC.
I would assume higher quality DACs (Denafrips ARES II, Bifrost 2, Burson Composer, etc) would have better clocks and therefore would not benefit from something like the Zen stream, Element H, or X-SPDIF3.
I really appreciate Golden's technical detail. I did not know that with USB only the DAC's clock controls jitter. I have an sms200 ultra neo with a tx-usb ultra reclocker. I guess the reclocker can't improve my sound?
So the SMS200 is one I'd like to revisit at somepoint.
With USB, almost all modern systems use UAC2.0, in which case yeah the DAC is entirely in control of timing. However UAC1.0 this was not the case.
With the SMS200, I noticed when poking around the software that the controller was being reported to linux as USB1.0 even though the bandwidth exceeds USB1.0 capability. So it could be that there's something a bit more complex at play with that particular device.
I unfortunately no longer have mine but at somepoint hopefully I'll be able to borrow one and do some more thorough testing.
Dude. Your level of understanding into technical details and application of principles is on another level like a being from a more advanced planet. It's actually a little bit demoralizing how little I know.
@@davidfriedman5154 all you should know is that the advertisements on jitter are typically misleading due to picosecond to femtosecond time resolution being imperceptible. Did you know that on the order of picoseconds, this equates to a SLOW bond vibration?
Reclocker won't improve your sound no since jitter isn't a problem on ANY modern device.
@@gurratell7326 Utter bollocks. It may not be a BIG problem, but of course it's a thing. Where'd you get that idea?
I've got a Naim NAC N272 that no longer is recognized by the new Naim/Focal App. I've always used Tidal HiFi. I'm thinking of placing an iFi Zen Stream connected via internet to my router and via SPDIF to the DAC in the NAC N272. I'm thinking I can then stream using the Tidal application. Anybody have thoughts about a problem with this approach?
WiiM Mini and Pro FTW!!!
DSD is IMHO, DOA. Cameron, try the Nordost Heimdall2 USB cable. It will blow your mind. I'm using their Valhalla USB cable, $3500!
the sound is good but the device is full of bugs - unusable...If you want a good and stable Volumio based device with better sound get the Volumio Rivo.
Great explanation about the ones and zeros. Thanks! 👍
So is it better than your PC?
Did it improve your sound in your setup? Thanks
I already manage to brick/break 2 units. Something pretty wrong with their customized volumio... Wlan interface disappeared from ifconfig.....dealing with ifi audio support again....
I had the Zen stream it was an excellent streamer. Only reason I moved on is my current DAC has a built in streamer that sound just as good if not better.
What DAC/Streamer are you using now?
@@mindhead1Gustard r26
Thank You.
Thank You.
this review feels incomplete. how is it to use? i feel like that was glossed over. you talk about what methods you can use to stream to it, but not what the experience is like. which streaming methods did you use when you tested its sound quality? which firmware version was your review done with? etc, etc. your reviews are usually so wonderfully comprehensive that this one felt strange.
Jitter/performance didn't change dependant on which streaming method was being used. It was the same for all to within margin of error.
As to usability. There's not too much to talk about here. You basically just connect it, turn it on, then stuff like Roon and hqplayer or the foobar upnp plug in find it automatically. You don't even actually have to touch the zen stream UI at all unless you wanted to connect a HDD to it or something.
I did actually initially have some more stuff in this vid but most of it was basically just describing how roon/hqp/upnp-dnla casting works and felt unnecessary so I took it out. Given the somewhat busy and technical nature of the video I wanted to keep it a bit shorter just to make sure that the important info either about streamers or the zen stream specifically was the focus
Not sure I’d be calling this a “review” when there’s no discussion on what the Zen Stream is like to setup or how the interface is to use. And those are two key points that need to be covered with this unit because although everybody seems to agree it’s a well designed piece of a gear from a component point of view with quality sound, that it misses the mark on setup and most importantly it’s user interface. Tons of user feedback all over the audio forums are filled with complaints that it can be difficult to setup, doesn’t work reliably and that the user interface leaves a lot to be desired. Doesn’t matter how great a piece of a gear is sound wise if it’s not easy to live with and use.
So this is the main reason I've not done full reviews of streamers and DDCs before. There's not really much to talk about here.
If you want to use Roon, you just turn it to Roon on the back, it shows up in Roon and away you go. Same with hqplayer, foobar upnp etc.
The only time you actually need to use the settings menu is if you're changing a specific setting like WiFi and I had no issues with that.
With most streamers, unless you're trying to do a fairly unusual setup or use it as a server, there's usually almost nothing to discuss in terms of UI/usability.
Ill have a peek through forums about the negative feedback but what I'd say is I didn't really have to use the UI almost at all and when I did it was fine (as it's based on volumio)
That’s all well and great if you use it as you outlined but a lot of people want to use it as a main source like so many do with a device such as Bluesound Node for example. If you try to use it in that fashion the user interface is relied on heavily and that’s where a lot of people seem to take issue with the Zen Stream. A lot of that has to do with from what I understand was iFi’s choice to use a version of Volumio that’s based on an old kernel that they modified for their purposes and called the app Stream-iFi. Reviews for that app for Android and iOS are absolutely abysmal.
I can’t speak to it myself as I don’t own a Zen Stream but the feedback I saw numerous times online and in comment sections on UA-cam pertaining to connection issues and more importantly the Stream-iFi app to control it turned me away from it because I intended to use it as a streaming source. I ended up going with a Bluesound Node (N130) and it’s been absolutely fantastic. It was super easy to setup and I primarily use it to stream all my ripped music from my NAS. As such I rely on the BluOs app to control it and it’s about as well sorted as a user interface can be which is why BluOs is widely considered the gold standard out there right now (and it’s excellent user reviews for both Android and iOS seem to support that)
I don’t think it’s a stretch for me to say a lot more people than you realize purchase a streamer to use it as a main source in their system to control it with their mobile device to play music which is big reason that the Bluesound Node has been such a popular device.
@@thehawk05 That's fair. In honesty I didn't explore the server aspect of it because I imagine the majority of people won't be using it this way, but it probably should have been looked at.
I think I might do a separate video at somepoint looking at all the different music server/organisation options, Roon, Volumio, BluOS etc and will revisit Zen Stream as a server for that.
@@GoldenSound You should have looked at the negative feedback before doing this pointless video, as it's useless. The negative feedback is massive and needs addressing, and it's ridiculous that you avoided it. Not good enough.
What people need to understand is that these are not "Reviews" they are merely long advertisements. Very few channels actually do unbiased reviews, at the beginning they actually do but then as soon as their follower count goes up they quickly turn into QVC.
Gordonsound is back
the foobar plugin does not work, and I cannot figure out why. I hope someone has it working
I did hear you allude to the value of this Ifi streamer so, in all interest in value for the consumer, you really should compare this streamer with that of the WiiM…
Could the headphone show consider doing a DDC shootout? Please anyone but Resolve as we know he thinks sources (amps, dacs, transports) are all relatively the same. DDCs are way under-covered in this industry especially in being able to scale a chain. Singxer SU6, SU2 KTE, Matrix SPdif 3, Gustard U18, Denafrips Iris/Gaia/hermes would all be great options to compare in a shootout.
I'd rather there be a double blind test against DDC's
Definitely something we could do. I actually have posted a ranking list of the DDCs I've tested so far on a couple forums. Currently the Rockna Wavedream NET and Holo Red are the two lowest jitter ones
@@GoldenSound in your opinion is the only benefit a DDC provides is the measurable reduction of jitter between source and dac ? Or do you have other perceivable benefits other than jitter that a ddc can provide?
@@aceofspades6667 Sort of, the three things that a digital source can affect are:
- Data integrity
- Noise
- Timing
Data integrity should ONLY be a factor if like the MScaler it's doing hopefully beneficial DSP. Otherwise I wouldn't want a streamer/DDC to be doing any DSP at all.
Noise should be as low as possible, and so should jitter. Otherwise It's tough to see why you'd buy an expensive source in the first place if the two things that it affects are not being done well.
The actual audible impact of different structures of jitter is not well documented, and so the differences in sound for DDCs may indeed be more complicated than simply higher/lower jitter, but I wouldn't recommend buying something that doesn't do the one job it's intended for well.
With DACs etc, there's a LOT more factors beyond just THD, and so a single number like SINAD is not sufficient to provide a full description of sound quality. But for a digital device there's pretty much only two factors that can be different at all.
@@GoldenSound ok that is great! So you might be able to take something like a matrix spdif 3 with dual femto clocks. You put that between say a ifi zen stream and say a Dac like gustard r26 (r2r) which benefits from I2S input. The matrix may provide benefit in timing (clock) and reduced jitter over just straight ifi zen pro to r26 via usb/coax
To get the best possible "sound"(no jitter or noise) Should I get a Holo Red if I am using a Holo Spring 3 KTE via USB from "my gaming PC" ????? I dont hear any issues.
If you're using a spring 3 then actually just connect it straight to your pc. With USB jitter isn't a factor and the spring 3 has full optical galvanic isolation on the USB inputs so it's immune to noisy sources too
This guy comes across as very convincing, and that British accent helps. The future is bright, young man. Godspeed
Thanks for sharing.
Maybe I missed it in the video, but no comparisons or the good and bad of the product.
HMMMM.
The bad stuff is mostly the lack of I2S/AES outputs, and sample rate limit, which is mentioned in the video.
Other than that, it'd mostly just be if it doesn't have support for a service/protocol you want, but it works with all the major stuff I'm aware of.
As to comparisons, I did mention a few, such as being better than the Gustard U18 and MC3+, but not as good as the Holo Red or Singxer SU6.
You should have done subjective impressions based on a couple things you had on hand, some information is better than none, even if we all have different setups
I use a wiim pro as a streamer only to a $700 DAC. Anyone hear an audible difference/experience using the ifi zen?
Has anyone upgraded to the Ifi Elite PSU with this? Any sound improvement?
Went with ifi powerX and noticed an improvement. 15W version. Moving the setting from AllinOne to Tidal after 2 yrs also made a positive difference.
Can any users of this device confirm if IFI have removed the Chromecast function. I know IFI were having problems integrating it into the unit. Just wondering if anyone has tried setting it up in Google home to see if it sees the device. Plus icon top left in Google Home then set up device.
Very good stuff 👌One day you guys from the headphone show will also realize that EVERY audio cable makes a difference and then reviews will get really interesting 😂
None of those specs or features mean nothing if you can't use them. I've already purchased this unit. Ever since the second I hooked it up I've had nothing but a headache. This is not a plug and play device. Even though it seems simple. The user interface and experience is the worst. You do need a degree in computer software to operate this unit. I really need help setting mine up. But I don't even think I can use it. I may have accidentally bricked it. I am having trouble contacting support anywhere about anything.
I really love iFi Zen DAC so much. Easy to setup, with great audio quality.
I also love it, but have had quite a lot of problems with the latest firmware update. It also needs reconnecting sometimes, after waking up my PC. What I like best about it is the bass boost, which is really effective on my Deva Pro. It's like having two sets of headphones in that regard.
@@SteveHuffer I didn't realise there were firmware updates for the IFI Zen DAC. Do they bring any improvements, other than the problems you've faced?
Naim Uniti Atom Headphone Edition
Please don't scare people about jitter, it's NOT a problem and hasn't been for years now. I mean just look at those example graphs you posted, the jitter is WELL below audible levels. Jitters effect on audio quality is just a myth nowadays, so I don't even understand why talk so much about audio quality but very little about the user experience. I generally like your videos, but this was just a waste of time.
Yeah pass, so many other systems that do a comparable job and have a lot of other capabilities (plus other streaming services). I could see using this type of product if you are building a dedicated listening room but that’s about it
Today's, these products should be transparent if well made.
this is a Raspberry Pi with the clock , used the trash
My friend swear by i2s
The Wiim Streamer does everything this does and more for a quarter the price. 🤷♂️
Is that you Randy the cheap audio man.
The Wiim streamer is a nice bit of kit but the main thing with the zen stream will be the improved jitter performance. I've not tested a Wiim yet but I can't imagine it'll meet the zen stream here.
If the features are the main concern though then yes a Wiim is a very nice option.
A lot of people also use raspberry pi too. That can work really well if you're happy to do a bit of setup
Ethernet, for a start
USB output?
wiim is not roon ready yet
Let's just agree that dacs don't have a sound signature
😂
Get out of this commumity if you're going to spread misinformation.
Let's not lmao deaf boi
I found Spotify to be pretty poor quality so I'm not buying a streamer anytime soon.
For some reason your comment makes no sense.
@@kiavaxxaskew yep
@@kiavaxxaskew then you must be incredibly bored to respond to a nonsense comment.
This Ethernet transport is a good idea but flawed in its execution. Very buggy at this stage in time.
Ethernet is stable. Wifi was challenging.