Make sure you do other shoulder exercises such as pushups. I did only pull ups and hang boarding for 4 months with no other shoulder exercises and then went climbing with no warm up and my tendons tore through my muscles that were weak. My shoulder 2 months later still feels dislocated but I learned my lesson. When you self coach alone, your bound to make mistakes. Listen to your coaches if you have them, and diversify your workout routine.
Don’t diversify your workout routine too much but make sure it’s complete from the beginning and covers a wide range of exercises to avoir injuries. Changing routine itself is not necessary a good idea. Tendons don’t like changes. If you do two weeks of push ups and then two weeks of pull ups, then two weeks of core only, this is the most risky scenario for your body to get injured everytime you enter a new cycle. If you do two years of : a little bit of everything with progressive overload that’s a safe way to progress
Pushups are not a shoulder exercise. If you want to train antagonistic exercises to counter pull ups and hangboarding I would suggest; shoulder press & TRX/Rings I's/Y's/T's.
@@MythAvatar well push ups work the anterior delts and pecs so it is a shoulder exercise, albeit far from the most effective as the rep range is too high to initiate much adaption. A much better option is ring dips imo. But yeah, trx ftw
If you get hurt by switching between pushups and pullups, something is seriously wrong with you or your overall workout structure/history. That or you're doing some really bad form bodyweight movements lol
Summary of this bueatiful video - @thanks @lattice Training Fundamental Fingerboarding Techniques for Increasing Finger Strength" ✦ Fingerboarding is a specific exercise for climbing 00:02 Fingerboarding helps improve finger strength for climbing Using a 20mm edge for training is beneficial for both indoor and outdoor climbing ✦ Half crimp grip uses less friction and puts joints in biomechanically worse position 01:59 Experiment with different grip positions that are slightly more open or closed without thumb wrap Observe others' hand positions and find what's comfortable and leads to strength gains ✦ The key types of hanging exercises are dead hanging and max hanging. 03:35 Dead hanging involves hanging from the board for around 5 to 30 seconds on each tank, with shorter hangs being higher intensity and longer hangs being lower intensity. Max hanging aims to reach failure or close to failure at a much shorter duration, while endurance hangs go up to around 30 seconds with lower intensity. Varying hanging duration throughout the year is recommended, with around 10 seconds being a good starting point for a gold standard. ✦ Don't be lazy with your shoulders and maintain a good hanging position. 05:25 Hanging position should have straight or slightly bent arms. Shoulders should be engaged but not working too hard or fully relaxed. ✦ Rest for 2-3 minutes between each set for sufficient recovery. 07:03 Hanging in that position with engaged shoulders. Rest longer if needed, but keep sessions concise. Use 80-90% of maximum effort for intensity. Record and increase loads gradually to avoid plateaus. ✦ Start with low weight and gradually increase to keep consistent gains. 08:40 For max hangs, do around six sets of high intensity with slow progress. For repeaters, do multiple hangs with short rests and a long rest period after. ✦ Record the load used and adjust accordingly based on each set. 10:24 Perform fingerboarding sessions before climbing sessions to maintain high quality. For new fingerboarding sessions, do them in isolation for proper recovery and familiarity. For max hangs, it is recommended to place them before a climbing session for maximum strength building. For repeater sessions or long duration hangs, they can be placed after a high intensity climbing session. ✦ Fingerboarding should be done in addition to climbing as a supplemental exercise. 12:17 Fingerboarding sessions should be short and focused on the fingers. Beginners should start with longer duration hangs or repeater sessions to develop finger and forearm strength.
When I do max hangs, I usually get less than half the hang duration on all reps after the first rep. To keep them at max in the right duration of about 10 seconds, I adjust the weight, and the edge depth if I have to, but I try not to adjust that based on what Lattice has recommended. I am tracking in a spreadsheet and trying to use some equation to calculate a "hang score" that can account for different weights, edge depth, and duration of hang, this way I get a visualization of my performance over time, including performance drop offs during training. I am using this equation at the moment. (duration * total weight ^2 *(15/edge depth)) / 1000. With this equation, I am crediting duration and edge depth linearly to score, and total weight (load plus body) I am counting squared because that is the most important area to improve according to Lattice's research, if I understand correctly.
The comment to increase the load slowly is very important. I tried adding 5 lbs at a time, and that was far too much--I've seen much better gains since switching to adding 1 lb at a time.
I find the idea of that we must do years of climbing before we can start hangboarding to be really silly. If you have been climbing for a few months but you can't do a particluar climb because you can't do a two-arm three-finger three-pad hang for more than 3 seconds, well the good news is increasing max hang time is something that can easily be trained in a six to twelve week period.
What about 3-finger drag? It's very different than half-crimp and a lot easier on the tendons/pulleys. I see so many climbers that just half/full crimp literally every hold in the gym all the time.
Great improvement of finger strength within a couple of weeks. However, the engaged position gives me pain on the outside of my biceps, so had to stop, I will try fully stretched position.
Thank you! 👍 One question. If I climb 3-4 times per week and do a "1 day on 1 day off" routine... Is fingerboarding once a week on a rest day too much? Or in general, can you do fingerboarding on rest days, or should you prioritize recovery on these days?
Maybe I misunderstood or missed the information but for the Max Hang Protocol the starting point is: 6 x (10s hang + 2-3min break). Is that one set or the entire workout? In the video Olli speaks of 2-3min break after one set and one hang, and also uses "set" in a different way for the repeaters, which left me a little bit confused.
Why not train finger drag also? It’s a totally different muscle group (flexor digitorum profundus) to the half crimp muscles (flexor digitorum superficialis). Can you explain this?
this came at a really good time thanks so much for the great info. Would you recommend doing pullups for that slight isotonic component when fingerboarding to make it more "specific" to climbing? or is just pure isometric hangs ok?
Thanks! We'd recommend most simply stick to the isometrics. Peoples pull-up strength can vary massively and we don't want this to become a limiting factor of the exercise when fingers are the focus. It can for be added in later on, but best to start with isometric hangs and have this as the main focus.
Thank you for answering: When into your climbing journey should you start finger boarding? I don't think I'm ready and just need to climb more first! :)
The main consideration for any climbing training is what is the limiting factor in your climbing? If finger strength is, then fingerboarding is a good choice, but determining this to be the limiting factor is difficult. Film yourself on a few harder boulders on somewhat steep terrain (15-25deg) with midsized holds (positive edges about one to a half pad) and see are you able to generate enough to get to and grab onto the next hold but are unable to move through the hold despite the feet being well positioned and staying on? Could be finger strength. This one generally needs a coach to assess because we want to know over a broad range of climbs this is the weak point not on a particularly finger intensive climb or two. However, fingerboard training is safe and useful, and developing a training history now can be a good idea. Add in a few sets which are below maximal to your weekly routine. Keep in mind this will be some effort despite being below maximal, and your normal routine has to adjust to not add in further volume and intensity. As well, if you only get to the gym once or twice a week, a session can be added in rather simply.
When you start hitting high 5.10s, into 5.11s and bouldering equivalent, is about where you really need to thing about finger strength. At that point, you have a good lead on technique.
Wait until you're finger strength plateaus from just climbing. If you're a beginner you'll build grip strength for quite a while by just climbing. You can start earlier, however if you aren't disciplined and don't have experience regulating intensity for strength training, hangboarding can be a magnet for injuries.
I have been doing hang till failure rest 2 minutes and hang till failure. Repeating that for about 6 to 7 reps or until my fingers get too weak to hold me up then I stop. I do that three days then rest one day cycle. Haven't added weight yet because I'm trying to hold the hang for a minute and a half before I start adding weight. Do that with starting with low weight up to what you said body weight+ 30%.
Hi lattice team, What about hangboardibg on a climbing trip ? Let's say you are on a long term sport climbing trip but want to keep those fibers strong and healthy. When to board? What type of training? Other exercises that are important?
Decided to benchmark for the first time in a year yesterday after ~7 months of lead climbing 3 times a week at pretty high level with 0 fingertraining, surprised how strong you get from just climbing
The question now is "what does 'increase slowly' means in terms of weights ?". Because it can mean increasing kilos each time or adding only 10 grams each time. Really subjective, what would your recommand ? (and with wich equipment ?)
I have to say that I think repeaters are benefitting me more than max hangs. Maybe it's because power endurance has always been my weakness, and because I normally do limit bouldering when I climb so they balance really well with that. A little surprised since I always thought that max hangs would be more helpful. And they have helped, but just not to the degree of repeaters.
This really helps. I've just started climbing. Only done 6 sessions so far, and I usually do 5-6a and a handfull of 6b. But for boulders with holds that require finger strengths, I pretty much can't do any of them.
I just started as well, about 6 seasons for me too. One thing that I found was super helpful, as abeginner was more attention to my feet. If you put more load on your feet, then your hands/fingers don't need to pull as hard, and fingers don't necessary need to be so strong. So, I pay close attitude to where and how I place my feet and how my weight is distributed on my feet (hip position). Good luck, have fun.
The generel rule is to start finger boarding only after 1 year of climbing, so your tendons had time to adjust to the massive loads on the finger tendons in climbing/bouldering. So keep that in mind if you want to prevent injuries.
Great video! Do you have any opinion on chisel grip vs half crimp? My index finger is a full finger pad shorter than my middle finger and is also shorter than my ring finger. When I try to half crimp all 4 fingers with my jndex it increases the angle and tension on the other joints. Should I retrain myself to use 4 fingers equally or if a chisel feels better with my anatomy stick with that? Thank you!
Thanks Thomas! Not sure I understand the question? If its the difference between 5 and 10s hangs, the load can vary a lot and the relative gap between them can be small for come but large for others. Its always best to test yourself and use this as your own benchmark for progression.
Hey Lattice, thanks for video! Great stuff as always! I’ve a question regarding finger position and pros vs cons in terms of what you titled ‘angle’. I’ve noticed myself that my hand since starting hangboarding (18 months ago) that it is in the chisel position where the index finger ends up quite straight and the middle fingers are probably at an angle of 110/120 degrees. As you say half crimp is king but what are the real benefits of this since I now have unintentionally trained my fingers into another position? I’m currently going back to half crimp really focusing on technique and trying to get the form right. But what are the real benefits of the hall crimp? 1- More active? Meaning that you can activate more strength when pulling? So this would be applicable to a move that requires more strength and power? 2-Energy requirement? Half crimp requires more activation and therefore increases the rate of pulp etc and fatigue etc? So looking at longer routes using both a passive and active finger position would suits best? My reason for asking is I’ve kinda trained my fingers in a ‘chisel position’ and if I want to continue to improve investing is getting the form right in the half crimp king worth my time? I managed to get above max hang above 150% of my body weight but was in the chisel position. So the question is if you wanna really keep improving is the half crimp really king or will I just keep working on chisel position which is already improving.
Thanks Conail! A lot of questions here so i'll get to the main point. Training in a variety of grip positions is really helpful for climbing (drag, chisel, half crimp). You should want all these grips to be strong in the long term in the same way learning new techniques opens more options for your climbing. If the main aim is to hang more weight off you harness on a fingerboard then sticking to one main grip position can be very effective. Half crimp training may benefit your chisel grip and we have seen diversifying grip training help break plateaus, but it doesn't sound like you are in a plateau with finger strength. So do you need half crimp? If its weaker and you want to have well rounded strength, I'd say yes. If you want to focus on building up chisel until you see diminishing returns, continue as you are. Maybe build in other grips in the future. We often call half crimp king because isometric training and strength is very specific to the joint angle trained, meaning half crimp has good transfer to chisel and full crimp (needed for small positive edges). Though chisel will help a lot with more passive grips like drag and slopers. What you choose to focus on will depend on weaknesses and you goals/preferred climbing style.
That’s great! Thanks for that!! The old adage of keeping the body guessing applies. Probably have plateaued a little with the chisel so focusing on half crimp is the way for the moment. Rehabbing a bicep at the moment also so really good opportunity to improve half crimp form. You guys are great, keep up the great work! Thanks again, Conail
@@LatticeTraining interestingly tested max hangs today using proper half crimp form and considerable discrepancy between chisel position and half crimp position. Max hang Chisel: 43kg Half crimp: 32kg. So yeah work to be done. Thanks again for your response.
I train for 3 years more or less continuously besides climbing outside with the Beastmaker 2000 (max. 1 x per week besides climbing) and have the impression that the friction is sometimes better and sometimes worse - is that due to the current finger strength? Currently it goes with the bad Beastmaker 2000's (30/45 degrees no matter if big or small) much worse than 2 years ago, although I am not weaker outside. Do you know this also?
Regarding edge depth: the video states the the 20mm edge is used because for "most people" that is one whole pad. So when the final phalanx is longer than standard, is it advisable to increase the size of the edge for most training?
Yes, this can be a good place to start. Longer fingers can find this more comfortable and anecdotally can yield quicker results on the handboard. However remember hold sizes on real rock are the same size for everyone so you'll want to work the edge depth specific to your goals/needs as well/at some point.
i‘m very confused every time someone says ‚if you see gains week by week or month by month‘. I‘ve been hangboarding for 2 years now with no real gains. I must have been doing a lot wrong then.. i‘ll try this protocol out once my fingers feel up to it again..
Hi! A Question about preventing the ever common finger pulley injury: I'm really starting to get deeper into climbing and am super enthusiastic about this new awesome hobby. However, I'm concerned about injuring my fingers, especially since I'm a bigger dude (100kg big boy) but also quite strong. I see this as a recipe for disaster since as a result of my strenght and size there can be quite the forces exerted on my fingers. Tendons strenghten much much slower than muscles as we know. So, my Question is: when doing crimpy stuff, is there value in applying a simple roll of tape to the middle fingers, like right below the knuckle where the injury is most common, as a preventive measure? Or am I just causing a hidrance to the strenghtening of these finger tendons?
ik i’m not lattice, and i’m more of an experienced runner than climber, but i learned something about injury prevention that i believe carries over to just about any sport. “no amount of recovery techniques can undo improper training” is my golden rule. what “proper training” looks like varies from person to person, but maybe (esp if you already feel pain in your fingers) it may just mean limiting the amount of time using hard, tiny crimps (high intensity on fingers, but low volume) also i believe doing proper hangboard training will serve as good injury prevention in that department as well :)
The tape might actually hide any damage to the pulley while climbing. I would try and make sure you increase the loading of the fingers slowly but surely (as long as you are not getting niggles). Avoiding exercises because of fear of injury is rarely the way to go. Your fingers might be fine, now you're restricting your progress by not doing things that could benefit you. However, pushing as hard as possible till you break is the opposite side of the spectrum. Slow but steady is the way forward. Best of luck!
Most injuries come from dynamic shockloading (e.g: throwing for a crimp). It is possible to injure yourself fingerboarding (especially in pocket position or with significant weight added), but be especially careful with fingery Boulder problems.
Does it make sense to do a full session of max hangs and a full session of repeaters right after each other on the same day? Or does this weaken the training stimulus?
It would be better to separate these session. Firstly they each should provide a large enough training stimulus on their own and further training may only add fatigue with not much more benefit. If the session feels short or is hitting a plateau, first try adding load (intensity) or doing more sets (volume). Secondly, as you mention, its best to keep the session focused with one aim e.g. max strength, strength endurance, endurance etc.
Is a mounted fingerboard like you use better than the ones that can be hung from a bar or tree (using a sling and a carabeenier)? What’s more effective in training? Thank you!!! Love your content. I’m going to sign up for one of your training plans soon
I have mild arthritis in my second knuckle of both my 4th fingers. The inflammation after climbing makes it difficult to close my fist or do finger glides. Finger boarding will obviously develop strength but is there any evidence that inflammation could reduce as well as your fingers become more adapted to controlled stressors?
If you are new to climbing and have hit a plateau, remember this is perfectly normal. Every new climber will progress fast at first so its normal to see this slow down at some point. Keep patient and make skill development the priority over strength. Max hangs vs repeaters? At this stage I would veer towards repeaters because building up some volume in your training will help connective tissue development. Take it slow and steady!
Hey, quick question to anyone that might know. I competed for a while but I've hit a stopping point in my strength. The joint right at 15mm just hurts so bad I feel like I'm losing the ability to use it at all. Does anyone know what might be causing it?
IMHO, scapula pull-ups would help, to help you strengthen the muscles that keep your shoulders engaged while hanging: ua-cam.com/video/VpeeqGkiDUU/v-deo.html I slowly worked my way up to doing sets of 10 with one arm, and never really notice this problem anymore
I often take a more engaged position for fingerboarding rather than the far more passive position most folks use. There is no specified angles you should be at, only you generally don’t want to be at a higher lockoff position as this will increase mechanical stress on the fingers without no real benefit. Otherwise, actively pull (act like a quite slow pullup, getting only a third of the way maybe), reposition on the board or finger another board as most boards are uncomfortable for most people and have to find what works, or simply lower the weight or time under tension until the shoulders can adapt.
How do people fingerboard more than 3 or 4 times a week, especially whilst climbing on the side?? In weightlifting, you train a body part once or twice a week. 3 or 4, or even more would be seen as insanity, and that’s not even considering the risk of tendon injury.
Some people are genetic freak, or have 5+ years of intense training routine + insane recovery habit. If you don't have all those you probably will get injured or not improve ^^
Very good question! The main difference here is that hangboarding (vs weightlifting) is very often done with the aim of developing connective tissue (tendons, pulleys etc.) with sub-max intensity and short sessions that do not cause as much fatigue. This means we can train with relatively high frequency. The outcome is building more robust connective tissue which responds best to frequent training, as long as the intensity is not too high. We don't for example suggest doing 4x max hangs per week. But changing the sessions (max hangs, repeaters, density hangs) and grip type (crimp, drag, pockets) throughout the week and keeping most sessions sub max is a great way to reduce finger injury risk. There are many caveats to this of course. If you are board climbing, campusing, projecting etc. then the fingerbording much change to suit.
I struggle with, when (after how much sessions) and how much wheight should I add to make good gains but don't overwork my fingers. I'm hangin 10 kgs of a 15 mm edge atm. Could you clarify this? Greets from Germany
Many question arise to know if you overwork : how many time a week, how many series or repetition? You can move you weight up generally every 4 to 6 week if when you increase the weight you can still acheive the same amount of time you were doing in the past. For specific answer multiple information are needed, Hope it help you
Thanks for video. One thing I strugle with are max hangs at the start of the session. Or simply if I want to do only hangboarding, Im somehow not able to warm up my fingers/forearms. Im able to hold 20mm after climbing session. But if I just try to warm up without climbing and then hangboard, Im basically not able to hold it. Do you have idea what could help? or is it just more practise needed? thanks
Just do a very thorough warm-up? Jumping jacks, pull-ups, kneading a stress ball. Then do several sets on big edges on the hangboard. Then start your real hangboard workout. Somehow fingers are really surprisingly weak when not warmed up.
You can warm up by climbing for sure! Just don't go projecting or to the max grades your able to climb. Climb easy things for half an hour/ an hour, or so, just so that you/your fingers are not fatigued yet.
I'm not a coach but I would assume going to failure increases you chance of injury. Kinda like attempting your one rep max once a week would be a bad idea generally.
Think this is a safe and general recommendation when people lack a deeper training history to assess themselves. As well, max strength protocols for fingerboarding, and about anything other than certain protocols, don’t leave us feeling as tired as most climbing would, and people often use how tired they are to assess how capable they are of doing a session when in reality the power is simply not there and the fingers have already been stressed. Taking this to failure just increases the likelihood someone injures themselves until they’ve more careful planning than a brief youtube video. Later, absolutely towards failure once you learn how much this demands of you and when to finish early or take another day before or after.
Please test "does screaming make you stronger!?!?" Take 2 climbers, one a screamer and one not. Have them pull as hard as they can, then the same with screaming! Bonus points for a larger sample size!!!
Make sure you do other shoulder exercises such as pushups. I did only pull ups and hang boarding for 4 months with no other shoulder exercises and then went climbing with no warm up and my tendons tore through my muscles that were weak. My shoulder 2 months later still feels dislocated but I learned my lesson. When you self coach alone, your bound to make mistakes. Listen to your coaches if you have them, and diversify your workout routine.
Don’t diversify your workout routine too much but make sure it’s complete from the beginning and covers a wide range of exercises to avoir injuries.
Changing routine itself is not necessary a good idea. Tendons don’t like changes. If you do two weeks of push ups and then two weeks of pull ups, then two weeks of core only, this is the most risky scenario for your body to get injured everytime you enter a new cycle. If you do two years of : a little bit of everything with progressive overload that’s a safe way to progress
Pushups are not a shoulder exercise. If you want to train antagonistic exercises to counter pull ups and hangboarding I would suggest; shoulder press & TRX/Rings I's/Y's/T's.
@@MythAvatar well push ups work the anterior delts and pecs so it is a shoulder exercise, albeit far from the most effective as the rep range is too high to initiate much adaption. A much better option is ring dips imo. But yeah, trx ftw
If you get hurt by switching between pushups and pullups, something is seriously wrong with you or your overall workout structure/history. That or you're doing some really bad form bodyweight movements lol
Is it alright to do pushups and shoulder exercises right after climbing? i don't have much time to add other exercises
Every climber must know video’🤘🔥😎
Thank you!🔥
For people with beastmaker 1000's, the bottom left and right holds are approximately 20mm and great to work with.
Apparently they’re 18mm
@@alexantone5532 yeah a bit smaller than 20mm, but a good sized edge nonetheless.
Smaller than 20mm, around 18-19mm, but much sharper and easier to hold than the Lattice's super rounded 20mm
Very thorough. I like how it went over all of the elements and still left room for individual choices. Sometimes the best answer is "it depends"
Summary of this bueatiful video - @thanks @lattice Training
Fundamental Fingerboarding Techniques for Increasing Finger Strength"
✦
Fingerboarding is a specific exercise for climbing
00:02
Fingerboarding helps improve finger strength for climbing
Using a 20mm edge for training is beneficial for both indoor and outdoor climbing
✦
Half crimp grip uses less friction and puts joints in biomechanically worse position
01:59
Experiment with different grip positions that are slightly more open or closed without thumb wrap
Observe others' hand positions and find what's comfortable and leads to strength gains
✦
The key types of hanging exercises are dead hanging and max hanging.
03:35
Dead hanging involves hanging from the board for around 5 to 30 seconds on each tank, with shorter hangs being higher intensity and longer hangs being lower intensity.
Max hanging aims to reach failure or close to failure at a much shorter duration, while endurance hangs go up to around 30 seconds with lower intensity.
Varying hanging duration throughout the year is recommended, with around 10 seconds being a good starting point for a gold standard.
✦
Don't be lazy with your shoulders and maintain a good hanging position.
05:25
Hanging position should have straight or slightly bent arms.
Shoulders should be engaged but not working too hard or fully relaxed.
✦
Rest for 2-3 minutes between each set for sufficient recovery.
07:03
Hanging in that position with engaged shoulders.
Rest longer if needed, but keep sessions concise.
Use 80-90% of maximum effort for intensity.
Record and increase loads gradually to avoid plateaus.
✦
Start with low weight and gradually increase to keep consistent gains.
08:40
For max hangs, do around six sets of high intensity with slow progress.
For repeaters, do multiple hangs with short rests and a long rest period after.
✦
Record the load used and adjust accordingly based on each set.
10:24
Perform fingerboarding sessions before climbing sessions to maintain high quality.
For new fingerboarding sessions, do them in isolation for proper recovery and familiarity.
For max hangs, it is recommended to place them before a climbing session for maximum strength building.
For repeater sessions or long duration hangs, they can be placed after a high intensity climbing session.
✦
Fingerboarding should be done in addition to climbing as a supplemental exercise.
12:17
Fingerboarding sessions should be short and focused on the fingers.
Beginners should start with longer duration hangs or repeater sessions to develop finger and forearm strength.
thank you
🙏 this is so perfect, bust my ankle a week ago and out of action for 5wks, so time to try this. Well explained 👏 👌
Hope you're healing up nice.
When I do max hangs, I usually get less than half the hang duration on all reps after the first rep. To keep them at max in the right duration of about 10 seconds, I adjust the weight, and the edge depth if I have to, but I try not to adjust that based on what Lattice has recommended. I am tracking in a spreadsheet and trying to use some equation to calculate a "hang score" that can account for different weights, edge depth, and duration of hang, this way I get a visualization of my performance over time, including performance drop offs during training.
I am using this equation at the moment. (duration * total weight ^2 *(15/edge depth)) / 1000. With this equation, I am crediting duration and edge depth linearly to score, and total weight (load plus body) I am counting squared because that is the most important area to improve according to Lattice's research, if I understand correctly.
The comment to increase the load slowly is very important. I tried adding 5 lbs at a time, and that was far too much--I've seen much better gains since switching to adding 1 lb at a time.
I appreciate that he actually gave straight answers to just about every question.
I've been hunting for a video like this from someone I trust, thank the lord you've arrived haha
love this material. looked around for something comprehensive like this years ago, but this is the best I have seen. Cheers!
Best hangboarding vídeo i've ever seen. Thanks from Brasil!
Thanks for making such a high quality video, super helpful 🙏
I find the idea of that we must do years of climbing before we can start hangboarding to be really silly. If you have been climbing for a few months but you can't do a particluar climb because you can't do a two-arm three-finger three-pad hang for more than 3 seconds, well the good news is increasing max hang time is something that can easily be trained in a six to twelve week period.
This is just amazing, exactly the information I needed right now to take my climbing to the next level. Thank you very much!!
What about 3-finger drag? It's very different than half-crimp and a lot easier on the tendons/pulleys. I see so many climbers that just half/full crimp literally every hold in the gym all the time.
Great improvement of finger strength within a couple of weeks. However, the engaged position gives me pain on the outside of my biceps, so had to stop, I will try fully stretched position.
Thank you! 👍
One question. If I climb 3-4 times per week and do a "1 day on 1 day off" routine... Is fingerboarding once a week on a rest day too much?
Or in general, can you do fingerboarding on rest days, or should you prioritize recovery on these days?
found this video at the perfect time, and its so thorough but easy to understand! thanks so much!
This is a great video - demystified the whole topic for me
Maybe I misunderstood or missed the information but for the Max Hang Protocol the starting point is: 6 x (10s hang + 2-3min break). Is that one set or the entire workout?
In the video Olli speaks of 2-3min break after one set and one hang, and also uses "set" in a different way for the repeaters, which left me a little bit confused.
Hi Christian, yes, that's the entire workout for the Max Hang protocol. 6 sets of 10s hangs.
Gracias por compartir este tipo de información con la comunidad escaladora, son publicaciones de gran valor explicadas de una manera perfecta.
Why not train finger drag also? It’s a totally different muscle group (flexor digitorum profundus) to the half crimp muscles (flexor digitorum superficialis). Can you explain this?
Would a tabata style hang session add any benefit? 20 seconds on, 10 seconds rest - repeat 8 times (4 mins). Absolutely pumps you out!
Been lifting moderately for 4 years, climbing for 2 years. As a V4-V5 climber I’m ready to start finger boarding
this came at a really good time thanks so much for the great info. Would you recommend doing pullups for that slight isotonic component when fingerboarding to make it more "specific" to climbing? or is just pure isometric hangs ok?
Thanks! We'd recommend most simply stick to the isometrics. Peoples pull-up strength can vary massively and we don't want this to become a limiting factor of the exercise when fingers are the focus. It can for be added in later on, but best to start with isometric hangs and have this as the main focus.
Thank you for answering: When into your climbing journey should you start finger boarding? I don't think I'm ready and just need to climb more first! :)
No, just climb for 1-2 years
The main consideration for any climbing training is what is the limiting factor in your climbing? If finger strength is, then fingerboarding is a good choice, but determining this to be the limiting factor is difficult.
Film yourself on a few harder boulders on somewhat steep terrain (15-25deg) with midsized holds (positive edges about one to a half pad) and see are you able to generate enough to get to and grab onto the next hold but are unable to move through the hold despite the feet being well positioned and staying on? Could be finger strength. This one generally needs a coach to assess because we want to know over a broad range of climbs this is the weak point not on a particularly finger intensive climb or two.
However, fingerboard training is safe and useful, and developing a training history now can be a good idea. Add in a few sets which are below maximal to your weekly routine. Keep in mind this will be some effort despite being below maximal, and your normal routine has to adjust to not add in further volume and intensity. As well, if you only get to the gym once or twice a week, a session can be added in rather simply.
When you start hitting high 5.10s, into 5.11s and bouldering equivalent, is about where you really need to thing about finger strength. At that point, you have a good lead on technique.
Wait until you're finger strength plateaus from just climbing. If you're a beginner you'll build grip strength for quite a while by just climbing.
You can start earlier, however if you aren't disciplined and don't have experience regulating intensity for strength training, hangboarding can be a magnet for injuries.
@@La0bouchere this really is the best anecdotal advice right here. Good point about the plateauing.
Best fingerboard video out there. Nicely done!
This is an awesome video for beginners!
Thank you for this!
Thanks for this I will be using this video to guide my new hang-board program 😁👍
I have been doing hang till failure rest 2 minutes and hang till failure. Repeating that for about 6 to 7 reps or until my fingers get too weak to hold me up then I stop. I do that three days then rest one day cycle. Haven't added weight yet because I'm trying to hold the hang for a minute and a half before I start adding weight. Do that with starting with low weight up to what you said body weight+ 30%.
Very thorough
really good explanation!
Great video!
Hi lattice team,
What about hangboardibg on a climbing trip ?
Let's say you are on a long term sport climbing trip but want to keep those fibers strong and healthy.
When to board? What type of training?
Other exercises that are important?
Ah yes, good idea for a video. Hangboarding on a long term trip can be very important for those looking to perform!
just what I needed to kick mwe to trening again after covid week :)
An amazing video. Thank you so much for sharing!
This video was awesome, thanks for the great info.
Decided to benchmark for the first time in a year yesterday after ~7 months of lead climbing 3 times a week at pretty high level with 0 fingertraining, surprised how strong you get from just climbing
Tell me about it, I've hangboarded a handful of times but training on wooden system board has made my fingers strong as hell apparently
Great video, thank you
This is the perfect video…!!! Thank you so much😊
Thank you !
Beginner Tip: When you hang with your feed on the ground you can use a wheight scale to record how much wheight your hangs are.
The question now is "what does 'increase slowly' means in terms of weights ?". Because it can mean increasing kilos each time or adding only 10 grams each time. Really subjective, what would your recommand ? (and with wich equipment ?)
Thank you so much!
I have to say that I think repeaters are benefitting me more than max hangs. Maybe it's because power endurance has always been my weakness, and because I normally do limit bouldering when I climb so they balance really well with that. A little surprised since I always thought that max hangs would be more helpful. And they have helped, but just not to the degree of repeaters.
Do the same principles apply to training pinches? I don’t see this feature as often. Weights on pinch blocks?
Yes, most of the principles apply to pinch training. We do have a video planned for this specific topic :)
In what climbing grade should be good start training hang board ?
Like after have reached a V6 for example or before
Do you have any training videos for climbers with hypermobility or hypermobile EDS?
Thanks for that, not heard of the repeater session before, will give that a go next time.💪👍😀
Absolute legends ❤️
This really helps. I've just started climbing. Only done 6 sessions so far, and I usually do 5-6a and a handfull of 6b. But for boulders with holds that require finger strengths, I pretty much can't do any of them.
I just started as well, about 6 seasons for me too. One thing that I found was super helpful, as abeginner was more attention to my feet. If you put more load on your feet, then your hands/fingers don't need to pull as hard, and fingers don't necessary need to be so strong. So, I pay close attitude to where and how I place my feet and how my weight is distributed on my feet (hip position). Good luck, have fun.
The generel rule is to start finger boarding only after 1 year of climbing, so your tendons had time to adjust to the massive loads on the finger tendons in climbing/bouldering. So keep that in mind if you want to prevent injuries.
Also, any thoughts on finger boarding for kids who have a solid climbing foundation?
For max hangs, should i be going to failrue at 10 seconds?
Great video! Do you have any opinion on chisel grip vs half crimp? My index finger is a full finger pad shorter than my middle finger and is also shorter than my ring finger. When I try to half crimp all 4 fingers with my jndex it increases the angle and tension on the other joints. Should I retrain myself to use 4 fingers equally or if a chisel feels better with my anatomy stick with that? Thank you!
Do you guys have any advice for dealing w/ hand cysts that pop up near the tendons?
Drinking game: take a shot every time he says protocol.
thank you for the video!
A QUESTION: to what kind of test time and loads have to be compared ? max weight for 5 sec max? 10 seconds?
Thanks Thomas! Not sure I understand the question? If its the difference between 5 and 10s hangs, the load can vary a lot and the relative gap between them can be small for come but large for others. Its always best to test yourself and use this as your own benchmark for progression.
is there a good app for your phone to record hanging sessions?
1st! First time ever! It's the greatest feeling in the world!
All that glory and you spelled it wrong!
@@gravyblue I just got so excited! Darn these fat fingers!
@@stevenstrangeways I'm only jealous!
how do i get the strength to hang if my fingers are not strong enough to hang with just my bodyweight
Hey Lattice, thanks for video! Great stuff as always! I’ve a question regarding finger position and pros vs cons in terms of what you titled ‘angle’. I’ve noticed myself that my hand since starting hangboarding (18 months ago) that it is in the chisel position where the index finger ends up quite straight and the middle fingers are probably at an angle of 110/120 degrees. As you say half crimp is king but what are the real benefits of this since I now have unintentionally trained my fingers into another position? I’m currently going back to half crimp really focusing on technique and trying to get the form right. But what are the real benefits of the hall crimp?
1- More active? Meaning that you can activate more strength when pulling? So this would be applicable to a move that requires more strength and power?
2-Energy requirement? Half crimp requires more activation and therefore increases the rate of pulp etc and fatigue etc? So looking at longer routes using both a passive and active finger position would suits best?
My reason for asking is I’ve kinda trained my fingers in a ‘chisel position’ and if I want to continue to improve investing is getting the form right in the half crimp king worth my time? I managed to get above max hang above 150% of my body weight but was in the chisel position. So the question is if you wanna really keep improving is the half crimp really king or will I just keep working on chisel position which is already improving.
Thanks Conail! A lot of questions here so i'll get to the main point. Training in a variety of grip positions is really helpful for climbing (drag, chisel, half crimp). You should want all these grips to be strong in the long term in the same way learning new techniques opens more options for your climbing.
If the main aim is to hang more weight off you harness on a fingerboard then sticking to one main grip position can be very effective. Half crimp training may benefit your chisel grip and we have seen diversifying grip training help break plateaus, but it doesn't sound like you are in a plateau with finger strength. So do you need half crimp? If its weaker and you want to have well rounded strength, I'd say yes. If you want to focus on building up chisel until you see diminishing returns, continue as you are. Maybe build in other grips in the future.
We often call half crimp king because isometric training and strength is very specific to the joint angle trained, meaning half crimp has good transfer to chisel and full crimp (needed for small positive edges). Though chisel will help a lot with more passive grips like drag and slopers. What you choose to focus on will depend on weaknesses and you goals/preferred climbing style.
That’s great! Thanks for that!!
The old adage of keeping the body guessing applies. Probably have plateaued a little with the chisel so focusing on half crimp is the way for the moment. Rehabbing a bicep at the moment also so really good opportunity to improve half crimp form. You guys are great, keep up the great work! Thanks again, Conail
@@LatticeTraining interestingly tested max hangs today using proper half crimp form and considerable discrepancy between chisel position and half crimp position.
Max hang
Chisel: 43kg
Half crimp: 32kg.
So yeah work to be done. Thanks again for your response.
I train for 3 years more or less continuously besides climbing outside with the Beastmaker 2000 (max. 1 x per week besides climbing) and have the impression that the friction is sometimes better and sometimes worse - is that due to the current finger strength? Currently it goes with the bad Beastmaker 2000's (30/45 degrees no matter if big or small) much worse than 2 years ago, although I am not weaker outside. Do you know this also?
Regarding edge depth: the video states the the 20mm edge is used because for "most people" that is one whole pad. So when the final phalanx is longer than standard, is it advisable to increase the size of the edge for most training?
Yes, this can be a good place to start. Longer fingers can find this more comfortable and anecdotally can yield quicker results on the handboard. However remember hold sizes on real rock are the same size for everyone so you'll want to work the edge depth specific to your goals/needs as well/at some point.
i‘m very confused every time someone says ‚if you see gains week by week or month by month‘. I‘ve been hangboarding for 2 years now with no real gains. I must have been doing a lot wrong then.. i‘ll try this protocol out once my fingers feel up to it again..
Hi! A Question about preventing the ever common finger pulley injury:
I'm really starting to get deeper into climbing and am super enthusiastic about this new awesome hobby. However, I'm concerned about injuring my fingers, especially since I'm a bigger dude (100kg big boy) but also quite strong. I see this as a recipe for disaster since as a result of my strenght and size there can be quite the forces exerted on my fingers. Tendons strenghten much much slower than muscles as we know.
So, my Question is: when doing crimpy stuff, is there value in applying a simple roll of tape to the middle fingers, like right below the knuckle where the injury is most common, as a preventive measure? Or am I just causing a hidrance to the strenghtening of these finger tendons?
ik i’m not lattice, and i’m more of an experienced runner than climber, but i learned something about injury prevention that i believe carries over to just about any sport. “no amount of recovery techniques can undo improper training” is my golden rule. what “proper training” looks like varies from person to person, but maybe (esp if you already feel pain in your fingers) it may just mean limiting the amount of time using hard, tiny crimps (high intensity on fingers, but low volume) also i believe doing proper hangboard training will serve as good injury prevention in that department as well :)
The tape might actually hide any damage to the pulley while climbing. I would try and make sure you increase the loading of the fingers slowly but surely (as long as you are not getting niggles). Avoiding exercises because of fear of injury is rarely the way to go. Your fingers might be fine, now you're restricting your progress by not doing things that could benefit you. However, pushing as hard as possible till you break is the opposite side of the spectrum. Slow but steady is the way forward. Best of luck!
Most injuries come from dynamic shockloading (e.g: throwing for a crimp). It is possible to injure yourself fingerboarding (especially in pocket position or with significant weight added), but be especially careful with fingery Boulder problems.
Does it make sense to do a full session of max hangs and a full session of repeaters right after each other on the same day? Or does this weaken the training stimulus?
It would be better to separate these session. Firstly they each should provide a large enough training stimulus on their own and further training may only add fatigue with not much more benefit. If the session feels short or is hitting a plateau, first try adding load (intensity) or doing more sets (volume). Secondly, as you mention, its best to keep the session focused with one aim e.g. max strength, strength endurance, endurance etc.
@@LatticeTraining Thanks a lot for this additional info!
Is a mounted fingerboard like you use better than the ones that can be hung from a bar or tree (using a sling and a carabeenier)? What’s more effective in training? Thank you!!! Love your content. I’m going to sign up for one of your training plans soon
Thanks! A fixed fingerboard is better. The stability will help you get more intensity into the finger flexors.
I have mild arthritis in my second knuckle of both my 4th fingers. The inflammation after climbing makes it difficult to close my fist or do finger glides. Finger boarding will obviously develop strength but is there any evidence that inflammation could reduce as well as your fingers become more adapted to controlled stressors?
Hi Jeffrey, unfortunately I don't know the answer to that. Please check with a climbing specialist physio before starting finger boarding.
What was that climb at about 0:40?
I’m a fairly new climber but I’m really muscular and plateauing at like v5-v6. Should I do max hang or repeaters?
If you are new to climbing and have hit a plateau, remember this is perfectly normal. Every new climber will progress fast at first so its normal to see this slow down at some point. Keep patient and make skill development the priority over strength. Max hangs vs repeaters? At this stage I would veer towards repeaters because building up some volume in your training will help connective tissue development. Take it slow and steady!
Hey, quick question to anyone that might know. I competed for a while but I've hit a stopping point in my strength. The joint right at 15mm just hurts so bad I feel like I'm losing the ability to use it at all. Does anyone know what might be causing it?
When I am doing max hangs my shoulders are most of the times the first thing opening up. Any tips what to do to improve on this?
Try shoulder shrugs to strengthen those muscles that are failing, nothing factual just an educated guess!
IMHO, scapula pull-ups would help, to help you strengthen the muscles that keep your shoulders engaged while hanging: ua-cam.com/video/VpeeqGkiDUU/v-deo.html
I slowly worked my way up to doing sets of 10 with one arm, and never really notice this problem anymore
Doing weighted pull-ups has helped me, but that’s probably just the scapular element
I often take a more engaged position for fingerboarding rather than the far more passive position most folks use. There is no specified angles you should be at, only you generally don’t want to be at a higher lockoff position as this will increase mechanical stress on the fingers without no real benefit. Otherwise, actively pull (act like a quite slow pullup, getting only a third of the way maybe), reposition on the board or finger another board as most boards are uncomfortable for most people and have to find what works, or simply lower the weight or time under tension until the shoulders can adapt.
You could try recruitment pulls
How do people fingerboard more than 3 or 4 times a week, especially whilst climbing on the side?? In weightlifting, you train a body part once or twice a week. 3 or 4, or even more would be seen as insanity, and that’s not even considering the risk of tendon injury.
Some people are genetic freak, or have 5+ years of intense training routine + insane recovery habit. If you don't have all those you probably will get injured or not improve ^^
Very good question! The main difference here is that hangboarding (vs weightlifting) is very often done with the aim of developing connective tissue (tendons, pulleys etc.) with sub-max intensity and short sessions that do not cause as much fatigue. This means we can train with relatively high frequency. The outcome is building more robust connective tissue which responds best to frequent training, as long as the intensity is not too high. We don't for example suggest doing 4x max hangs per week. But changing the sessions (max hangs, repeaters, density hangs) and grip type (crimp, drag, pockets) throughout the week and keeping most sessions sub max is a great way to reduce finger injury risk. There are many caveats to this of course. If you are board climbing, campusing, projecting etc. then the fingerbording much change to suit.
@@LatticeTraining Thank you so much for the reply! Very informative. I had been assuming people just train close to failure in every session.
Intensity is lower
Does the edge depth include or exclude the radius of the edge?
It includes the radius. Some edges can feel harder or easier for the same edge depth due to the differing radius.
What about the video from Emil Abrahamsson. It's a year old. I have had a lot of success with it.
Yes this can be a useful approach to hangboarding too. If interested we did a quick breakdown of this in our end of 2021 review video.
Does anyone remember those finger skateboards? It's all I could think every time he said finger board!
I struggle with, when (after how much sessions) and how much wheight should I add to make good gains but don't overwork my fingers. I'm hangin 10 kgs of a 15 mm edge atm. Could you clarify this? Greets from Germany
Many question arise to know if you overwork : how many time a week, how many series or repetition? You can move you weight up generally every 4 to 6 week if when you increase the weight you can still acheive the same amount of time you were doing in the past. For specific answer multiple information are needed, Hope it help you
Thanks for video. One thing I strugle with are max hangs at the start of the session. Or simply if I want to do only hangboarding, Im somehow not able to warm up my fingers/forearms. Im able to hold 20mm after climbing session. But if I just try to warm up without climbing and then hangboard, Im basically not able to hold it. Do you have idea what could help? or is it just more practise needed? thanks
Just do a very thorough warm-up? Jumping jacks, pull-ups, kneading a stress ball. Then do several sets on big edges on the hangboard. Then start your real hangboard workout. Somehow fingers are really surprisingly weak when not warmed up.
You can warm up by climbing for sure! Just don't go projecting or to the max grades your able to climb. Climb easy things for half an hour/ an hour, or so, just so that you/your fingers are not fatigued yet.
Why is 80-90% effort recommend for Max Hangs versus to failure (i.e. just squeezing out 8-10s)?
I'm not a coach but I would assume going to failure increases you chance of injury. Kinda like attempting your one rep max once a week would be a bad idea generally.
I think it’s also for ease of self modulation
@@alexantone5532 Do you mean it's easier to consistently achieve 80-90% vs 100%
@@itsabummer4u Good point. I wonder what difference in stimulus the extra few % gives.
Think this is a safe and general recommendation when people lack a deeper training history to assess themselves. As well, max strength protocols for fingerboarding, and about anything other than certain protocols, don’t leave us feeling as tired as most climbing would, and people often use how tired they are to assess how capable they are of doing a session when in reality the power is simply not there and the fingers have already been stressed. Taking this to failure just increases the likelihood someone injures themselves until they’ve more careful planning than a brief youtube video.
Later, absolutely towards failure once you learn how much this demands of you and when to finish early or take another day before or after.
Why you use “hang boarding” in the title and “finger boarding” throughout the video?
The hardest part of climbing ? Training !!! 🤣
I should not watch that because I have a finger injury and really shouldn't try this...
Ah injuries sucks
Finally some lattice content that's not banging on about menstrual cycles!
Please test "does screaming make you stronger!?!?" Take 2 climbers, one a screamer and one not. Have them pull as hard as they can, then the same with screaming! Bonus points for a larger sample size!!!
Lol havent you uploaded these types of "how to hangboard" videos 5 times by now?
Yes.
Bunch of gym kooks