(Reaction) What Makes Shine So Good?
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
- No move in Smash Bros has ever been made like it. The original purpose of the "reflector" has been thrown to the wayside and the birth of "shine" happened, the best combo move and movement option in all of Smash. Oh yeah, and it still reflects. Why is it so good? Let's find out.
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► • What Makes Shine So Good?
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Whoever voiced Melee fox is a legend
Shinobu Satouchi voiced Fox in Melee, in case you want to know
It was me
@@joesmother23 can I get a HAIYA! sir, I’m a big fan
@@zenabompeg I’m actually the voice actor for the shine sorry for the misconception
@@joesmother23 can we get a BLIP sir, im a huge fan
Falco shine is frame 1 in case anyone was wondering. I have no idea why hbox said it's frame 2.
Same
He probably confused it with falco s longer endlag due to his 2 more frames of jumpsquat
What happened the the asum sauce kirby video ?
make a video 10 things wrong with Melee!
Fox would still be top tier. Falco would be much much worse
It's crazy how I've known this move as "Shine" or "Fox's shine" way before I ever knew it was called "Reflector." I think I learned that in smash 4 when messing with custom moves.
1. Wobbling
2. Shine-grab
3. Invisible ceiling
4. Wall of pain
5. Port priority
6. Infinite chain grabs
7. Peach rng
8. Stadium rng
9. Unfinished characters
10. Not being able to use C-stick in Single Player
Can you elaborate on the Port Priority thing ?
@sambeast13 If 2 characters try to grab eachother at the exact same time, 1st player will grab 2nd player and so on.
1. Wobbling is banned
2. Shine-grab is sick
3. Invisible ceiling is a predictable and interesting mechanic and makes for hilarious moments
4. wall of pain is very much surmountable
5. port priority is weird but there are pros and cons to being higher or lower port and it never really decides matches
6. no infinite chain grabs are in melee they all stop working eventually, and are always interactive combos
7. peach rng makes for some amazing moments and you can always catch whatever she throws at you
8. stadium rng has been taken out of the game
9. G&W is still sick even tho he can't L cancel most of his aerials
10. the community fixed this too, every modded version of melee has C stick in single player
@@ToThePowerOfX "Shine Grabbing is sick" 💀💀
@@jaydenhohman2590 anyone else playing the 'sick' drinking game
"The best part of Shine is ending it"
oof
Aged like fine milk
no...........
wait what's wrong with this statement again
@@AzulStryer if i remember correctly, this video came out the week after the popular tournament series Shine announced their ending
"Can you imagine if you could jump out of Marth's counter? I would actually vomit. I would vomit all over my lap and just DQ myself from every tournament."
-Hbox 2023
but jump canceling rest would be ok💀
@@yohanbosu multiresting would be fucking feral.
Only real ones remember the HungryFox 😎
It's amazing to me that leffin will play fox, the highest rated character in the game with the best offensive arsenal, and cry about puff being to overpowered
He did play the European version where fox is nerfed.
Hbox saying he would vomit if Marth could jump cancel down B, with no mention of PUFF being suggested that way
Honestly
Melee is beautiful from a distance
Look at it close
Then it starts to look…messy
Jigglypuff one hit kill 😂
the best mess on this planet
It's actually like a bell curve, you look at it, and it's awesome, then you soon realize it's incredibly messy, the more you look, the messier it becomes, this lasts for awhile before everything begins to make sense, and fit into the grand scheme of things, and if it doesn't, it's the exception and is beautiful because it's flawed.
Most cultured ultimate player
and that mess is a beautiful one
Shine is one of the most busted moves in a fighting game ever
Ah yes, the Reflector, dubbed Shine. Wouldn't be nearly as bad if it only Reflected Projectiles. Unfortunately, it reflects people, too.
Fortutunate and unfortunate for us now it's actually just a reflector yay
And when you're technical enough
Bloop bloop bloop bloop bloop bloop bloop bloop bloop bloop bloop bloop bloop bloop bloop bloop bloop bloop bloop bloop bloop bloop bloop bloop bloop bloop bloop bloop bloop
As a smash64 player, I always felt the same way about shine grab. Now that we have Falco, shit's even worse
....did hbox say falco shine is frame 2?
lmao yeah
Dang Tang is so cool in the wombo combo, he doesnt even need to move from his spot. so COOL
Hablando desde mi ignorancia, creo que Fox subiría a top 3 si el shine se pudiera cancelar. El wavedash en Ultimate tiene mucho más lag, así que Fox no tendría ni el waveshine ni los combos tan locos que tiene en Melee, pero seguiría siendo una herramienta increíblemente versátil tanto para meter presión como para evitarla.
Pregunta Off topic: ¿Has jugado algún otro juego de peleas aparte de Smash Bros?
I know Juan has played at least 2 non-Smash games. He made videos on Nick All Star Brawl and Multiversus when they were announced and came out
wonder when that new asumsaus vid is gonna come out, it’s been over half a year
I'd really love the see the complete list of all 10 things that are fucked with melee
Okay, but what if Falcon could shine?
Wouldn't work. He'd need to shout out the move name first, which would make it too laggy to have any real impact.
FALCON SHINE!
The year is 20XX, every fox camps center stage infinite multishining. All other characters are F-Tier
Falco shine is also frame one, but its slightly smaller than foxes (the frame 1 hitbox, the actual reflector part is the same iirc) :(
Fox shine bigger horizontally falco shine bigger vertically makes falco better with techniques like runway where you jump up to shine them
in a vacuum, rest is infinitely better than shine
think about puff with shine, pretty cool but can't get early kills and her edgeguarding is already great
now think about fox with rest
think about it
Rest is the vast majority of the time a move that gets you killed even if you kill the opponent. Shine, in contrast, is purely a plus move. Rest is not as good.
Sure Marth jump canceling out of Counter is bad, but what if Puff could jump cancel out of rest!
TIL i need to learn shinedashing
If Ultimate Fox had jump cancel Shine, he still wouldn't be as good as Melee Fox because his Shine isn't frame 1 and also wave dashing isn't as fast in Ultimate. It'd still be busted though. I wonder if Shine up smash would be true still...
5:02 *[hungrybox suffers visibly for five seconds.]*
Which one is better? Fox's Shine or Falco's Shine?
Fox's shine
Fox cause it sends down and gimps
It's complicated. Fox's Shine has a bigger hitbox, and can gimp thanks to sending down, but Falco's Shine sending up makes it a huge part of Falco's combo game, and that's very important too.
Like, I think if you remove jump cancelling out of shine, it might actually be Falco that suffers more since I'm not sure what Falco would do for combos without shine, whereas Fox shine could still gimp.
Dog goes bark, cat goes meow, fox goes BLIP
i once played against a guy who was at the time #1 in tennessee, and he thought rest was the best move,,, thought he was off his rocker it is 100% fox shine, so ridiculous
Rest is a better move than shine on every character in the game in a vacuum. Compared to their respective kits however? Yeah it’s shine
@@boxcart4533 also true I think, but no moves in the game exist in a vacuum, shine is enabling in every way for fox AND Falco
@@boxcart4533A move that even when it kills leads to your own death in 90% of cases is not and will never be better than shine.
I am absolutely shocked that HBOX thought that Falco shine was frame 2... WHAT??? LMFAO
to be fair, he didnt know you could run up jab until like 2018 or something lmfao. mang0 talked about it on stream once i think
@@shaan__real oh yeah I remember that lmao, absolutely insane. Man's built different
@@ToThePowerOfX hbox is an enigma to me, of having such insenly good game sense and being one of the greatest players in history, yet he somehow just, doesn't know pretty basic stuff of the game he's played almost as long as I've been alive
this is the hungrybox (top melee player/content creator) UA-cam channel
first
I think without the jump cancel its still a good move because the speed of it changes shield pressure, just to a much lesser extent.
And it still kills offstage
if you tried to shine a shield without jump cancel you just get immediately bodied by your opponent
awesome sauce , serve me up hbox.
Cody's recovery was fucking ridiculous. Shit was frame tight as all hell dude.
Did he just call Falco shine frame 2?
Why is the thumbnail just you flabbergasted at a picture of fox's shine
you are so late lol
5:14 Fox redefines shield pressure.
Can someone explain exactly what makes falco not only different from fox but what makes fox better
Fox shine pushes you away while Falco pushes up making it a bit harder to kill with Falco
Falco and Fox each have a bunch of things they do better than each other.
For Falco it's
* Lasers. Falco's lasers have hitstun, which make them a good combo starter.
* Down Air. Falco's Down air does a lot of damage and sends people straight down, and is good for both combos, and also for killing people off stage.
* Shine knocking people upwards completely changes Falco's combo game. Knock people upwards, jump follow them, continue combo.
* Falco is a little heavier and fast falls a bit faster than Fox.
* Forward B "illusion" as a recovery option comes out 3 frames faster, ends 4 frames sooner, and if an enemy gets hit by it off stage, Falco's version knocks them straight down probably killing them.
For Fox it's
* Up+B recovery (Firefox) is about twice as long as Falco's. This lets Fox survive more often when off stage, but also allows Fox to safely chase further off stage chasing a kill, so has both offensive and defensive applications.
* Fox jumps 2 frames faster. This is important for both his aerial game, and also for his shine tricks.
* Fox up-smash is one of the best moves in the game for killing off the top ceiling.
* Fox up-air is another one of the best moves in the game for killing off the top ceiling.
* Fox's Shine has a larger hitbox and knocks at a downwards angle allowing for some offstage kills. (Debateable which shine is better, they are both good, but play very different).
* Fox has a higher run speed. 2.2 instead of 1.5. This matters for a lot of different stuff, including continuing combos, moving around in neutral, etc.
As for why Fox is higher rated...
It has to do with matchup spread. Fox and Falco both have pretty identical matchups against the top three characters (Fox, Falco, Marth, all considered around 50-50 against each other). But Melee has a long history of high level often even #1 rated players playing weird characters. Hungrybox on Jigglypuff. Armada on Peach. Fox does better than Falco into both of those matchups because of having the two best moves for killing off the top (Jigglypuff, and Peach are much easier to kill off the top because they are floaty and have great recoveries). Additionally there is Amsa on Yoshi. Yoshi is weird--allergic to mult-hit moves. Fox is much better into Yoshi than Falco is because of Fox's down-air--normally Fox's down-air is much worse than Falco's, but specifically against Yoshi, because it is a multi-hit move, it is much, much better and one of the most important moves in the matchup.
1:24 no way he thinks its frame 2, i actually cant accept that but ig if any top player it would be hbox
1:25 Wait falcos shine is frame 2???
It’s Frame 1 like Fox’s.
Hmm? This guy is still doing those faces on thumbnails?
that cody clip was fucking funny lol
Someone ask mew2king for confirmation
Fox only drops below marth if he couldn't shine. Fox still has
1. The best recovery in the game (besides puff)
2. crazy disjointed tilts
3. Full hop > double laser
4. Up throw chain grabs/combos
5. The strongest frame 7 move in the game in up smash.
fox absolutely does not have the best recovery in the game besides puff, Samus and Peach easily have better recoveries than Fox just for starters
As someone already pointed out his recovery is not second best
2. His tilts aren’t even really that disjointed especially when compared to characters like puff
3. Yeah his full hop is good but it’s not what makes him the best just allows for good and safer mixups
4. His up throw chaingrabs himself and falco up to around 70-80 on only fd and it chaingrabs falcon to like 28% before he can just jump out
5. Pika upsmash is stronger, foxes upsmash is just complimented better by his speed and the ability to jc upsmash
I agree fox is the best and would be worse then Marth without shine but you seem a little misguided as to why fox is the best
@@ToThePowerOfX ok well I may have been a bit hasty to call fox's recovery the best, it's still better than falcon, falco, sheik, and yoshi's. I retract my statement, but his recovery is still really good.
@@cokehead3040 1. the hitbox on fox's up tilt rivals 64 kirby up tilt and sheik fair sizes, as well as it being really fast, and his down tilt being a whole hitbox away from his tail. While not being marth or puff bair level of disjointed, it's still unreservedly big.
2. Short hop double laser is the only reason leffen had ever been able to beat hbox.
3. while his full hop isn't what makes him the best, his overall movement is the best in the game with his run speed only being slower than falcon.
4. Chain grabs aren't all up throw can do. Without his shine resets, his combo game is pretty nerfed, but it still leads to like 70% which is what fox calls kill percent (sometimes lower based on character weight).
5. Best Galint in the game.
I am more of an ult kid than a melee player, but I don't believe that I am misguided when I say that the fox playerbase would absolutely still play and have something to prove when saying he is the best character even if he couldn't jump out of shine.
@@ToThePowerOfX I'd honestly say Pikachu (and maybe even Pichu due to much less lag) is better recovery than fox as well, you could argue for Mewtwo being up there too but idk
First
View 1
No, if fox and Falco couldn't jump cancel, Jiggs or shiek would be number 1
Respect for Coney to play “Coalescence” during a match against HBox back then!
Puff should've been able to jump cancel rest don't @ me
Where would Smash be if Reflector only reflected?
wrr
How can he think falco shine is frame 2…
I don't know man. The guy has been playing competitive Melee at the highest level and he doesn't know that lol
@@damana1000 since 2008...
I wish ult fox could JC shine. I miss shinespikes.
Hi Twitch
If any of this shit was in ultimate it would be banned.
cool
falco and fox shine is both frame 1 hbox...
Shine should have been land-cancelled instead.
Make one for the worst character on melee
HFOX?! didnt even know it existed
whoa HBox does Melee content now?
I call that move the "Gamecube sign" because that's what it actually is.
If fox had his jump cancel shine in ultimate defending against fox would be trickier he would be top 5
He's ranked as #5 on the official tier list right now. I'm honestly not sure how much of an impact jump cancel Shine would make for Fox in Ultimate, because I'm not confident that there would be many follow-ups out of it without Melee's wavedash, but if it turned out to be a really strong option, that could push Fox into being the best character in the game. Some top players already think that Fox is underrated and that he's one of the most difficult characters to fight at the top level.
@@flip.flap. his approach would be harder to beat because the speed that shine has with the quick recovery as he can escape the situation easy, if the jump frames still allow what melee does so many more options ok there is no wavedashing but jump canceling is od especially if done on whiff and shine spiking would be more consistent.
@@flip.flap. try out fox in melee with shine jump canceling and feel the power you don't need to wavedash keep watching the other possibilities outside of wavedashing.
yes more asum saus!!!!
4:58 amazing edit
Mission: compree
Let’s goooo we got the sauce
Rest may be the best move in the game but the shine’s are close 2nd and 3rd
Fox shine is better than rest.
@@shinji136 there’s an argument for both
Cuz it gud
nice lol
When explaining smash bros to people by using the old rock paper scissors illustration, shine grab on shield is like picking paper and scissors at the same time.
Ridiculous.
Early squad
Shiny
ASUMSAUS
With ZeRo not posting smash content anymore, Juan has filled the hole in my smash shaped heart.
Shine makes me wonder why people tried to make this crap game an esport
Dawg what
Imagine being formerly ranked #1 in melee and thinking falco shine is frame 2
The reason he has a disadvantage in shine wars vs fox is because his jump squat has 2 additional frames. Shine out of shield requires you to wait out the full duration of your jumpsquat, so fox's can come out at frame 4 at the earliest. Falco's is frame 6.
Im a drunk idiot with a fraction of your skill/experience and even I picked up on that cause I actually respect my fellow players and ask knowledgeable people questions about things I don't understand. Adds up coming from the guy who went a fucking decade before he learned you could crouch jab out of a full run
Get good and whoop him then king 😂
@Upon Eric already made it clear I know he's on another level of results, but goddamn man how do you play a game this long and not know basic info like that?
I don't have to beat him in tourney for this point to still be accurate, boss. I learned this shit before I even entered a tournament (I do not main spacies) & I never went out of my way to avoid friendlies & sharing info to keep an edge against my competition once I did lol he's just the trump twitter bot of melee
@@sampletext7925PPMD and Armada have already mentioned that HBox doesn't avoid playing friendlies, he just doesn't tryhard on them which is also not uncommon for top level players.
Now stop it with the salt. I know you're envious because your existence has no value and you feel compelled to try to put others down for it, but you'll still be just as worthless even if you do that. Now lay off, for good.
@@shinji136 I am frustrated by ignorance, holmes. That's all. Nobody's life has value, but I promise I have a stronger positive impact on more people than 99% of anime profile pics lmao
@@sampletext7925 You certainly don't have as much of a positive impact as you think; you have none at all. Some people do have value and do positively impact others, but such people aren't the ones who foam at the mouth and try to put others down out of envy and bias against a video game playstyle.
Shine is busted but rest is definitely the most busted move in the game. Give almost any character in the game rest and they are immediately a top tier. I’d say like at least half of the characters with fox’s shine in particular would not get much better because they are either too slow or have too many frames on their jump squat to follow up after hitting someone with it on stage. Falcos shine pops you up so it would likely improve almost every character in the game aside from jigglypuff because it would get rid of rest for her
Yea but missing a shine isn’t punishable compared to missing a rest
@@stephkerry shine also an instant kill unless you're off stage, and by that point your opponent mustve won neutral once. Both moves can kill from one opening but you have to do wayyy more to kill with shine
@@stephkerry fair I guess but rest is pretty much a guaranteed kill and at the top level players should rarely be missing it.
@@matthewburnside9566Doesnt matter if rest is a "guaranteed kill" because it's also a guaranteed death, while shine has no such negatives.
i hope asumsaus gets the money from this video, dude puts in so much work into his videos and then people just watch them and react and call it their own video? some bs
react = free advertisment