5:10 Alpharius would do stupid overcomplicated shit for no reason. He would butt in on other Legion's campaigns or manipulate them. He would also go against plans or twist other Legions plans to fit his own. Guilliman was right, and Alpharius having his head up his ass thinking he was so much smarter than everyone else is what got his wig split by Dorn, because nobody could trust him.
Yeah, its kinda funny how the character flaws of the Primarchs are so extreme. Like I get that they are smarter than us, faster, stronger...etc. But all their flaws are on that level too. One reason I love Alpharius is how flawed he seems...how sure of himself even when he's clearly wrong. And what I hate about Guilliman is how perfect he seems. At least in this old lore Gman had some flaws at least. Now the most compelling thing about him is that he has been roped into being the proxy emperor and is not allowed to die...which is pretty dark, but certainly not an interesting character flaw.
This story sounds like Alpha Legion propaganda. I’d hardly think the Primarch with the most successful chapter in terms of territories, losses and force composition would simply underestimate their opponents.
Ah. Nice to finally see the full context for the "Guilliman killed Alpharius" claims. And I'm left to wonder why so many "Lore" channels even mention it, let alone cite it as any kind of proof of anything. The moment we see a loyalist Primarch in the 30k setting accepting that his Astartes are praying is the moment one should put it solely into the "Unreliable" category, and not be the basis for any sort of proclamations.
I believe someone did ask him at some point, but the source is eluding me. I do recall that he had no idea what they were talking about. That said, the Alpha Legion did infiltrate the Ultramarines, and attempt to assassinate Guilliman, and nearly succeeded. Those legionnaires may have been deluded into believing Eskrador was true, and tried to get revenge...
I'd posit something slightly different. Let's point out that at least ONE of the twin's powers is to GIVE a portion of his power to a marine who drank his blood. What if the other twin's power is to COPY the power of someone who's blood he drank? He could have drank Roboute's blood, and this got a lesser version of Roboute's power, and is in over his head right now, hence the Liar and Traitor lines from the Emperor on the golden throne?
That is the very evidence I look to when entertaining this notion. What the Emperor said should not be disregarded casually. I would love it if GW pulled the carpet out from under us and Guilliman suddenly realized he's actually Alpharius.
@@InquisitorRomanov Then the current Warhammer 40k universe would be filled with issues where the Inquisition is not only accepted, but allowed to perform the tasks that it is trying to do, no matter the costs, especially if this one of the twins was the "loyal to the Emperor" exclusion, in efforts to cauterize damage, like how some of the Alpha Legion warbands who proclaim loyalty act. I mean, there would also have to be some reasons why "Guilliman" would not reach out directly to the Lion upon hearing any rumors of him coming back, and instead jump further into the fray with more conflicts. This "Guilliman" would also have to change to be less hide bound than he previously was and more willing to deviate from the books and traditions that he had set forth. And this "Guilliman" would also have to be a lot more amenable to working with xenos, like how the Alpha Legion worked with the Cabal. Wait...
Good video. I still think that Alpharius being killed at some point (in whatever manner it could have happened) but that not mattering to his Legion is a better story but that's a just a personal preference.
Thanks, I appreciate it. What you said about his death not mattering to his legion is what made me start Alpha Legion back when this Index Astartes came out. It just made them so absolutely badass
There's a pic in one of those books that shows a Heresy-era Iron Warriors apothecary collecting the gene seed from a dead legionnaire while, in the background, you see a battlement flying an Imperial Fists flag. Like, the Fists got all the glory. It's what got me to start an Iron Warriors army.
Ah yes, ye old index astartes issues. The eskrador battle is also mentioned in the sons of the hydra novel, where occam(guy and his warband we follow) mentions it being the source of another AL lord(quetzal kartach, a.ka. angelbane)'s utter hatred for all ultramarines and their successors and his vow to exterminate them one by one. Gw will probably either take it as-is from old lore(with corrections regarding war gear), expand upon it(most likely), or completely change it in the eventual great scouring series.
It’s been 10,000 years. Many Alpha Legion, even lords, believe this may be true. Doesn’t mean it is. Akurra believes it too. But, did you watch the video and see what the Index Astartes actually says? It was always a lie, in-universe. Completely fabricated. Plus it’s literally from a White Dwarf. If they want to make it canon someday, that’s fine. But so far, it’s in-universe just propaganda.
@InquisitorRomanov Legion's way, to its benefit or detriment. Even back then, reading it the first time, alpharius' end was sorely lacking, especially for a primarch as we say in my country, "greased by all oils". And since we know that alpharius and omegon can switch bodies with their legionaries, who's to say that they won't stay dead for long, if at all. That could be a reason, or one of them at least, why most of them stay out of eye of terror/maelstrom - they can't switch into a corrupted body, and legion is following unspoken command by primarch(s) ingrained into the geneseed itself by staying out. Hopefully scouring won't mess them up.
@@adampatrick9639 The author has confirmed that it was indeed Alpharious that got killed on Pluto and Omegon took his identity after sensing his brother´s death.
@@InquisitorRomanov John French the Author of Pretorians of Dorn confirmed that its was Alpahrious that died on Pluto and Omegon took over his identity. We also see in that book that Dorn is able to recognize one of the twins.
You have to ask IF the Alpha Legion knew with the same kind of certainty as the night lords and Iron Warriors that their primarch was dead. Why was a C´tan able to fool the Alpha legion into thinking it was their primarch Alpharious returned. One Alpha legionnaire even begged "Alpharious" to come out of hiding and once again lead his legion. You don´t ask for that if it is written with a 100% Certainty that the first of the twins died on Pluto and the second died is Eskrador. Then it would be "Who are you? and why have you taken the form of our dead father?"
Pretty sure in Harrow Master, it's stated that almost no one in the Alpha legion believe that Alpharious or Omegon died at the battle of Eskandor but interestingly enough while it's not the death of their primarch it's pretty much did break up the legion
I remember a moment in Harrowmaster where Akurra is thinking that any legionnaire who doesn't believe that one of the two primarchs died on Eskrador is a fool. Yet others don't buy it. I think the legion has become victim to its own 10,000 year old misinformation. Some, like Akurra, actually believe it.
After reading, head of the hydra, & legion. None of the battles whether it be against dorn or against guillimen make sense, nor does it make sense that he’d engage them so openly or with out tricks or deceit involved. Even after reading The seventh serpent they assassinate a fake alpharius and then real one appears. Also whether dorn killed alpharius or Omegon is up for debate as well, since they did switch places and names once they discovered one another. And omegon was known for using the spear. They even managed to trick the cabal who now aren’t really at play at all. Ingo pech is supposedly still stuck under terra w a mine stuck to his chest and a whole group of alpha legion marines waiting to be activated in loyalty to the emperor. It’s all kindve just up in the air right now. But great video glad someone covered this, kindve nervous to see what’s next to come but also excited.
I had to make this after being told at least a thousand times in the comments of my videos that "Guilliman killed Alpharius in the books." And I was like, WTF? It's just in a magazine, and I know this because I have owned that magazine for 21 years. Yeah, they are going to either blow our minds with what they do with the lore, or they are going to piss a lot of people off. Either way, it'll be totally Alpha Legion. I absolutely agree with everything you said.
I like the fact that you referrenced the wd article. It is probably going to be retconned. The "ultramarines" who recanted his experience is most likely an alpha legion plant. Kripman could be an Alpha legion agent but doesnt know it. It would fall in line with using Orks vs Tyranids to save the imperium for a while.
Yeah, I remember reading this in 2003 and having two reactions. First I wondered where Alpharius actually was, and what actually happened, if anything. Second, I absolutely had to start an Alpha Legion army.
I am Alvarius. There is no truth. There is no lie. There is only what we want you to believe. Cannon. No, cannon makes no difference. We are the Alpha Legion. I am Alpharius.
this entire story could be attributed as alpharius sowing misinformation about his death. that would be a very alpharius thing to do, and could even wrap this into the lore as well. that might be why it gets referred to even though we know its out dated.
primarch fights are brutal and take longer than one sword strike. G-man killed some random Alpha Legionnaire pretending to be Alpharius/Omegon. Omegon is still alive. however, the horus heresy book series kinda sucks and ruins canon, so i wouldnt consider anything in the novels canon
Yeah, I mean they are so similar in style...I always wondered about that too. To me, the Raven Guard are kinda like Delta Force, and the Alpha Legion is like the ISA. They are meant to work together and compliment one another.
i really like alpha legion. i thought the emperor found him on terra and uncle malcador before raised him and taught him to be sneaky. And Guilliwoman is my least favorite boy scout pompus Dbag lol
Yeah, true...now. This lore the video is about is from 2003, long before they even wrote the Horus Heresy books, let alone before Alpharius Head of the Hydra was written. That's the point....that people are still buying into this old, outdated, heavily retconned lore still to this day. But yeah, you can't trust anything in Head of the Hydra either, as he openly states he's a liar multiple times throughout the book. Though it is among my favorite books, and I believe every word...I know I shouldn't.
I'm going to set up an email address just to communicate with viewers, so I'll let you know when I get to that. Would love to hear what you have to say, unless you just want to get your thoughts out here in the comments. You're more than welcome to do that.
Well, there certainly is something to be said for the old lore, for sure. It was an interesting era. This article, while I may seem super critical of it now, is what got me into Alpha Legion back in 2003.
5:10 Alpharius would do stupid overcomplicated shit for no reason. He would butt in on other Legion's campaigns or manipulate them. He would also go against plans or twist other Legions plans to fit his own. Guilliman was right, and Alpharius having his head up his ass thinking he was so much smarter than everyone else is what got his wig split by Dorn, because nobody could trust him.
Yeah, its kinda funny how the character flaws of the Primarchs are so extreme. Like I get that they are smarter than us, faster, stronger...etc. But all their flaws are on that level too.
One reason I love Alpharius is how flawed he seems...how sure of himself even when he's clearly wrong. And what I hate about Guilliman is how perfect he seems. At least in this old lore Gman had some flaws at least. Now the most compelling thing about him is that he has been roped into being the proxy emperor and is not allowed to die...which is pretty dark, but certainly not an interesting character flaw.
Alpharius: "I am Alpharius."
No, I am Alpharius.
@@vontheunknown7982 this is a lie
Yes, For the Emperor's.
Everyone else:
“…I am Alpharius.”
Uh… 👆 he is Alpharius.
Nobody told me it was White Dwarf lol Primarchs do NOT die in White Dwarf articles
Agreed
This, is a lie...
Hydra Dominatus!
This story sounds like Alpha Legion propaganda.
I’d hardly think the Primarch with the most successful chapter in terms of territories, losses and force composition would simply underestimate their opponents.
@@Blanzalot and if they did, it would not be revealed in a White Dwarf. At least not in 2024.
Rogal Dorn: There. Alpharius is dead by my hands.
Alpha Legion: … Are you sure about that?
Hydra Dominatus
Ah. Nice to finally see the full context for the "Guilliman killed Alpharius" claims. And I'm left to wonder why so many "Lore" channels even mention it, let alone cite it as any kind of proof of anything. The moment we see a loyalist Primarch in the 30k setting accepting that his Astartes are praying is the moment one should put it solely into the "Unreliable" category, and not be the basis for any sort of proclamations.
I’m glad someone sees the Imperial Truth. Thanks for watching!
"I am Alpharius, and this is my record. And ALL record LIE"
Alpharius in Head of the Hydra book
Hydra Dominatus!
Liar...I am Alpharius and this lore is partialy truth.
I am Alpharius, and this is a educated wish.
Except on days where he thinks he is Omegon. 😂
Hydra Dominatus
For the Primarchs and the Harrow!
You'd think someone would've immediately asked about this to Guilliman.
I believe someone did ask him at some point, but the source is eluding me. I do recall that he had no idea what they were talking about.
That said, the Alpha Legion did infiltrate the Ultramarines, and attempt to assassinate Guilliman, and nearly succeeded. Those legionnaires may have been deluded into believing Eskrador was true, and tried to get revenge...
Roboute Guilliman is Alpharius
There’s a lot of evidence to actually suggest this.
I'd posit something slightly different. Let's point out that at least ONE of the twin's powers is to GIVE a portion of his power to a marine who drank his blood.
What if the other twin's power is to COPY the power of someone who's blood he drank? He could have drank Roboute's blood, and this got a lesser version of Roboute's power, and is in over his head right now, hence the Liar and Traitor lines from the Emperor on the golden throne?
That is the very evidence I look to when entertaining this notion. What the Emperor said should not be disregarded casually. I would love it if GW pulled the carpet out from under us and Guilliman suddenly realized he's actually Alpharius.
@@InquisitorRomanov Then the current Warhammer 40k universe would be filled with issues where the Inquisition is not only accepted, but allowed to perform the tasks that it is trying to do, no matter the costs, especially if this one of the twins was the "loyal to the Emperor" exclusion, in efforts to cauterize damage, like how some of the Alpha Legion warbands who proclaim loyalty act.
I mean, there would also have to be some reasons why "Guilliman" would not reach out directly to the Lion upon hearing any rumors of him coming back, and instead jump further into the fray with more conflicts.
This "Guilliman" would also have to change to be less hide bound than he previously was and more willing to deviate from the books and traditions that he had set forth. And this "Guilliman" would also have to be a lot more amenable to working with xenos, like how the Alpha Legion worked with the Cabal.
Wait...
Good video. I still think that Alpharius being killed at some point (in whatever manner it could have happened) but that not mattering to his Legion is a better story but that's a just a personal preference.
Thanks, I appreciate it.
What you said about his death not mattering to his legion is what made me start Alpha Legion back when this Index Astartes came out. It just made them so absolutely badass
There's a pic in one of those books that shows a Heresy-era Iron Warriors apothecary collecting the gene seed from a dead legionnaire while, in the background, you see a battlement flying an Imperial Fists flag. Like, the Fists got all the glory. It's what got me to start an Iron Warriors army.
ALPHARIUS HAS ALREADY WON BY BEING OMEGON AS ALPHARIUS.
(this is a lie)
Hydra Dominatus!
HYDRA DOMINATUS!
Ah yes, ye old index astartes issues. The eskrador battle is also mentioned in the sons of the hydra novel, where occam(guy and his warband we follow) mentions it being the source of another AL lord(quetzal kartach, a.ka. angelbane)'s utter hatred for all ultramarines and their successors and his vow to exterminate them one by one.
Gw will probably either take it as-is from old lore(with corrections regarding war gear), expand upon it(most likely), or completely change it in the eventual great scouring series.
It’s been 10,000 years. Many Alpha Legion, even lords, believe this may be true. Doesn’t mean it is. Akurra believes it too.
But, did you watch the video and see what the Index Astartes actually says?
It was always a lie, in-universe. Completely fabricated.
Plus it’s literally from a White Dwarf. If they want to make it canon someday, that’s fine. But so far, it’s in-universe just propaganda.
@InquisitorRomanov Legion's way, to its benefit or detriment. Even back then, reading it the first time, alpharius' end was sorely lacking, especially for a primarch as we say in my country, "greased by all oils". And since we know that alpharius and omegon can switch bodies with their legionaries, who's to say that they won't stay dead for long, if at all. That could be a reason, or one of them at least, why most of them stay out of eye of terror/maelstrom - they can't switch into a corrupted body, and legion is following unspoken command by primarch(s) ingrained into the geneseed itself by staying out.
Hopefully scouring won't mess them up.
Wait didn't Dorn kill Alpharius on Pluto??
In 2017, in Praetorian of Dorn, yes.
This lore is Alpharius’s original story, which came out in 2003.
Did he? Weird how he didn't say anything during the seige of terra when they were saying Alpharius was still at large. He definitely doubts he did
@@adampatrick9639 The author has confirmed that it was indeed Alpharious that got killed on Pluto and Omegon took his identity after sensing his brother´s death.
Stating, "the author has confirmed," and not even mentioning who that author is, or where he said that, does not inspire confidence.
@@InquisitorRomanov John French the Author of Pretorians of Dorn confirmed that its was Alpahrious that died on Pluto and Omegon took over his identity.
We also see in that book that Dorn is able to recognize one of the twins.
You have to ask IF the Alpha Legion knew with the same kind of certainty as the night lords and Iron Warriors that their primarch was dead.
Why was a C´tan able to fool the Alpha legion into thinking it was their primarch Alpharious returned.
One Alpha legionnaire even begged "Alpharious" to come out of hiding and once again lead his legion.
You don´t ask for that if it is written with a 100% Certainty that the first of the twins died on Pluto and the second died is Eskrador.
Then it would be "Who are you? and why have you taken the form of our dead father?"
Excellent points.
Pretty sure in Harrow Master, it's stated that almost no one in the Alpha legion believe that Alpharious or Omegon died at the battle of Eskandor but interestingly enough while it's not the death of their primarch it's pretty much did break up the legion
I remember a moment in Harrowmaster where Akurra is thinking that any legionnaire who doesn't believe that one of the two primarchs died on Eskrador is a fool. Yet others don't buy it. I think the legion has become victim to its own 10,000 year old misinformation. Some, like Akurra, actually believe it.
After reading, head of the hydra, & legion. None of the battles whether it be against dorn or against guillimen make sense, nor does it make sense that he’d engage them so openly or with out tricks or deceit involved. Even after reading The seventh serpent they assassinate a fake alpharius and then real one appears. Also whether dorn killed alpharius or Omegon is up for debate as well, since they did switch places and names once they discovered one another. And omegon was known for using the spear. They even managed to trick the cabal who now aren’t really at play at all. Ingo pech is supposedly still stuck under terra w a mine stuck to his chest and a whole group of alpha legion marines waiting to be activated in loyalty to the emperor. It’s all kindve just up in the air right now. But great video glad someone covered this, kindve nervous to see what’s next to come but also excited.
I had to make this after being told at least a thousand times in the comments of my videos that "Guilliman killed Alpharius in the books." And I was like, WTF? It's just in a magazine, and I know this because I have owned that magazine for 21 years.
Yeah, they are going to either blow our minds with what they do with the lore, or they are going to piss a lot of people off. Either way, it'll be totally Alpha Legion.
I absolutely agree with everything you said.
I like the fact that you referrenced the wd article. It is probably going to be retconned. The "ultramarines" who recanted his experience is most likely an alpha legion plant.
Kripman could be an Alpha legion agent but doesnt know it. It would fall in line with using Orks vs Tyranids to save the imperium for a while.
Yeah, I remember reading this in 2003 and having two reactions. First I wondered where Alpharius actually was, and what actually happened, if anything.
Second, I absolutely had to start an Alpha Legion army.
I am Alvarius. There is no truth. There is no lie. There is only what we want you to believe. Cannon. No, cannon makes no difference. We are the Alpha Legion. I am Alpharius.
Hydra Dominatus
Liar
Man Gmoney in 2000's lore is completely different from the boy scout we got today
Too bad they changed his personality. I liked the older version.
The Codex wasn’t written until after the heresy.
This is from 2003. The Heresy books started coming out around 2006.
@ I didn’t know that. Thanks for elaborating.
You are Alpharius? No, no. I am Alpharius.
@@TheHaughtyOsprey Hydra Dominatus
this entire story could be attributed as alpharius sowing misinformation about his death. that would be a very alpharius thing to do, and could even wrap this into the lore as well. that might be why it gets referred to even though we know its out dated.
Good take on this, I like it
I miss those simple days of yore. The lore gets so convoluted nowadays.
Yeah, there's definitely something to say for simpler times.
The idea of G-man shit talking another Primarch is kind of hilarious 😂
Indeed
scouring is coming all this will be lay to rest i think
you might be right about that
Right, but who did Dorn kill?
That's a completely different subject...but IMHO, Omegon. But, he didn't exist when this Index Astartes came out in 2003.
primarch fights are brutal and take longer than one sword strike. G-man killed some random Alpha Legionnaire pretending to be Alpharius/Omegon. Omegon is still alive. however, the horus heresy book series kinda sucks and ruins canon, so i wouldnt consider anything in the novels canon
I always found it odd that Korvus would have issue with how Alpha fights.
Not like Korvus isn't a backstabbing A-hole. 😏
Yeah, I mean they are so similar in style...I always wondered about that too. To me, the Raven Guard are kinda like Delta Force, and the Alpha Legion is like the ISA. They are meant to work together and compliment one another.
WAZAAAAAA!!!!!!
Indeed
alpharius alphariused all over the place.
Hydra Dominatus
i really like alpha legion. i thought the emperor found him on terra and uncle malcador before raised him and taught him to be sneaky. And Guilliwoman is my least favorite boy scout pompus Dbag lol
Yeah, true...now. This lore the video is about is from 2003, long before they even wrote the Horus Heresy books, let alone before Alpharius Head of the Hydra was written. That's the point....that people are still buying into this old, outdated, heavily retconned lore still to this day.
But yeah, you can't trust anything in Head of the Hydra either, as he openly states he's a liar multiple times throughout the book. Though it is among my favorite books, and I believe every word...I know I shouldn't.
@@InquisitorRomanov i have a theory on sanguineus death. would love to run it by you one day.
I'm going to set up an email address just to communicate with viewers, so I'll let you know when I get to that. Would love to hear what you have to say, unless you just want to get your thoughts out here in the comments. You're more than welcome to do that.
Could have been a better vid minus the cheap shot at Ultramarine fans.
Not as cheap as hearing them harp on and on about it for 22 years without ever having bothered to read it.
I like the old lore, before Alpha legion was turned into the meme-monster it is today...
Well, there certainly is something to be said for the old lore, for sure. It was an interesting era. This article, while I may seem super critical of it now, is what got me into Alpha Legion back in 2003.
@ I read it too back in the day, and loved it. Oh how I despised Guiliman back then! 🤭
Guilliman died on eskador, and alpharius took his identity.
This has a lot more weight to it than most people want to admit.
Hydra Dominatus
For the Primarchs, and the Harrow!