Another thing that could be mentioned to solidify Hiruzen and what state he was brought back in would be how Kishimoto is very consistent in how he draws Hiruzen’s wrinkles at certain times. For example during the Nine tails attack in chapter 501, Hiruzen has darker hair and TWO wrinkles. During the Uchiha Massacre, in both the 550 and 220 flashback, Hiruzen has THREE wrinkles. And lastly during his part one bout in chapter 120 he has four wrinkles against Orochimaru which is the exact amount shown on chapter 639 when reanimated aswell. So just a little note, Hiruzen was revived at Konoha Crush…
Old man Hiruzen is at the top of Sannin/Kage level. He was supposed to be retired but had to come back and keep running the village because Minato died. He was weakened by age. He had a mental nerf, but so did Orochimaru. And then when he gathers the resolve to use the Reaper Death Seal and goes to make Shadow Clones (unwise under normal circunstances), seal the Edo Hokage, disarm and blitz Orochimaru, he's clearly mentally amped. The most explicit evidence for that his the fact that those feats are preceded by his Will of Fire, "the village is my family and I am the pillar that supports the tree, and after me a stronger Hokage will come from the new leaves" monologue. Therefore, I put him right next to full power Orochimaru, and I don't think he breaks into the High Kage tier (where he would get close to SM Naruto, Tendou Pain, and V2 A) without a mental amp. Edo Hiruzen is stronger because, despite the Edo Tensei nerf, he's not limited by age. In this sense, aging is treated like a disease by the Edo Tensei, as Edo Hiruzen coming back stronger than when we last saw him is in practice the same thing that happened to Itachi and Kimimaro. I think there's enough evidence to scale him to around the level of Edo Tobirama, either above or below. I personally call that Hokage level/tier, because that's where I put all the Edo Hokage plus alive Tobirama and Minato. And the fabled Prime Hiruzen has to be stronger than the Edo version. Basically Edo Hiruzen was free of the age nerf, then take that and remove the Edo Tensei nerf. From the Edo scaling, I also put prime Hiruzen next to alive Tobirama. I don't think there's enough reason to scale him above Minato. All there is is that one "strongest Hokage, God of Shinobi" argument that also implies he was stronger than Hashirama, which is stupid. Plus, I think one of the reasons Minato was made Hokage as early as he did was because he surpassed Hiruzen.
You made a point that ive thought of for years and heard no one else say. Prime Hiruzin could be stonger than base Hashirama and not sage mode due to how little people probably know about him.
Now that I think about it Sage mode is essentially how Senju-Uzumaki gain more chakra, using the Mangekyo Sharingan to control Tailed Beasts is how Uchiha gain more chakra. Susanoo is the stronger battle mode for the Uchiha, Wood Golem is the stronger battle mode for the Senju. Complete Susanoo is the ultimate battle mode for the Uchiha, True Several Thousand Hands. Uzumaki stronger battle mode is using their sealing fuinjutsu to seal a Tailed Beast giving them Chakra mode. Uzumaki ultimate battle mode is a Tailed Beast Avatar.
@@Virhtueu wanna make the definitive “explaining itachis monstrous strength” vid? I pioneered a lot of the arguments for itachi back in the day and there’s a ton of shit mfs still continue to miss
Actually he deserves Sage Mode more than any character in Naruto except Hashirama maybe cuz Hiruzen is a mixture of Sasuke sarutobi and Sun Wukong ( Sun Wukong is associated with Senjutsu in stories )
@@decidueye2963 if hashi can have a sage mode to fight hiruzen to see whos the strongest then its only fair for him to have sage mode too mokey sage mode
@@dlp3rdlegend Well that would be shame when Kishi didn't gave Senjutsu to a character that's inspired from Sun Wukong and gave that to one's not related with it like Jiraiya.
Good video, I think you did a good job of at least showing why Hiruzen should be quite a bit above Sanin level. However, my biggest issue with people saying Hiruzen was the strongest or second strongest Hokage is based on how he did during the 9 Tails Invasion. Yes, this Hiruzen is past his prime, but he wasn’t THAT old. At the start of the series he’s 68, Naruto is 12, which means Hiruzen would’ve been 56 when Obito and Kurama attacked. For reference, Jiraiya and Tsunade are both in their early 50’s, and neither are really implied to be past their prime. Madara actually notes that the old ass Onoki in the war is stronger than he was as a young adult when he fought Madara. Thus, it doesn’t really seem like 56 year old Hiruzen should be that much weaker than he was in his prime. Yet he can’t do much against Kurama aside from hold him off until Minato arrives. If the guy was that strong I just don’t think Minato should’ve even been necessary to stop Kurama.
1. The professor 2. Student of the Famous Senju Brothers 3. The Sensei and Father of the Sannin 4. Danzo’s B***h Whatever you know him as, he’s undeniably strong
Great vid and love your channel! I have questions or possibly an idea for a vid-how much did the Akatsuki members (aside from Konan) know about Pain? Did they know he killed Hanzo or that he was the leader of the Rain Village? Did Orochimaru recognize Tendo Pain (Yahiko) as one of the Ame orphans? Had any of the members seen any of the other Pain Paths? Did they know about the rinnegan or any of powers he possessed? Did any of them know he was an Uzumaki? I would find it odd if none of them knew anything about him and just randomly accepted him as leader and followed his orders, but none of this is really covered in the anime. Thanks!
I lean more into the prime hiruzen is somewhere slighty stronger than the sanin, maybe around pain level. For starters him being greater than the other 5 kage was stated by kabuto if i recall, and i have to ask whether I'm going to take him as the bastion of all knowledge. I have no idea if he's seen ay, onoki or mei in combat. The data book statement of the hokage standing above the rest, literally has in the next sentence "none can compete with his wisdom". To use that as the hokage automatically stronger fighter than other kage doesn't seem like the only way and imo the way that should be interpreted. Additionally, the scaling of him being stronger than tobirama cuz he was more talented kind of flues in the face of the series which champions hard work can match and surpass talent with examples being gai, lee, and the titular naruto. This is especially so as tobirama is noted in one of the data books as being especially focused on self improvement. To say he was more talented = he was stronger doesn't sit right with me. Additionally i believe his edo form gives a good description of how prime hiruzen could be. No before u disagree saying he was ressurected as a 70 yr old so he was not in his prime, I'd say that the edos all shiwed to not have their physical ailments from their living bodies. Case in point edo itachi wasn't sick, sasori had his human body not just a cylinder of flesh, kakuzu didn't have a hole in his chest etc. The only counterclaim would edo nagato who still had his leg injuries from his encounter with hanzo (it's weird but it's the only exception i can find). Nonetheless, once he absorbed chakra he was back to his alive red haired self. This would appy both ways as during the war arc naruto shared his kyubi clock with even the edo hokage. So using my logic, he as an edo shouldn't have the pressing drawbacks of age or at the bare minimum it should be notably lessened. And with all that stalemating the elemental attcks of zetsu is impressive i don't believe the five kage were all at full power while combating the statue. You can infer this as ay doesn't have his lightning cloak. Tsunade healed them but it didn't mean she restored their full chakra volume. If they were fully healthy, it wouldn't make sense why they didn't use the giant particle style combo attack they used on madara on the statue because zetsu had no counter for that. Another point to lend some credence to my argument would be madara as he wants to fight strong opponents seen with him immediately calling out hashirama when the edo kage arrived on the battlefield and him getting excited to fight gai. He makes no mention or even check out the potential greater than hashirama combatant. Even if you disagree that edo reduces the age debuff, it's suprising that madara didn't even mention or check him out especially as he interacted with the other 3 kage. His renown for mastering all the jutsu of the leaf is also weird cuz i seen translations of the statement that limit it to konoha jutsu like the blade jutsu the jonin instructor from the chunin exams used against baki. Even taking it very charitably that he knows everything from shadow possession to the rasengan, knowing a jutsu and being able to have it be combat effective are two things. The hokage guard trio knew ftg but it required 3 of them to pull of one teleportation. All in all, i scale prime hiruzen to around the pain levels.
Hiruzen is fr insanely strong🔥 He and Hashirama are the only 2 people to ever _physically_ overpower the Full Nine-Tails. Hashirama used Wood Style constraints and Hiruzen (at 55yrs+ old) used Enma Staff and his _own physically_ strength. He's also _the_ most knowledgeable Hokage ever and learnt every jutsu (except ftg). I don't think anyone realizes how absolutely INSANE it is that as a 70yr+ Hiruzen (a.k.a the 2nd OLDEST person on earth) and still damn near stalemated Full Power Orochimaru, Weakend Edo Tobirama _&_ Weakened Edo Hashirama *all at the same time.* If some random person did anyone of those feats they'd be literally world-famous
It’s not neglected, in order for that to be the case it’s your burden to substantiate Oro’s nerf to of a higher level than Hiruzen’s which is virtually impossible
the title god of shinobi is in reference to that point in time at that time hiruzen was the strongest kage hence the term imo scales justslighlty above ohnoki and on gengetsu and lord Muu
The anime guide stating Orochimaru is not from Hiruzen's perspective and also has anime-only content which conflicts with the manga. Id est, canoncity is dubious, there. Ebisu did not tell Jiraiya Orochimaru could be above him. He just said a Sannin is needed to fight another Sannin. Being a top-class genius (on its own) would not inherently make Orochimaru superior, either, as many have kept up with geniuses through other means. Not that I think Orochimaru is not the strongest Sannin (I believe he is), just that it is not by that wide a margin or that the evidence is overwhelming in his favour. Kakashi is only shown opening the first of the eight gates. The gates are also not really a jutsu in the typical sense.
i’ve always put hiruzen above the sannin and five kage just not to the point where he can defeat them all in a 1 v 3 or 1 v 4 (unless he makes shadow clones ofc). the strongest out of the 5 kage and stronger than the sannin. the man that lived by the will of fire his entire life-hiruzen sarutobi
Personally, I don't think Sasuke would have beaten Orochimaru. Yes, he cut Orochimaru very hard and he was lying on the floor, but the fumes paralyzed Sasuke (supposedly immune to toxins). Sasuke couldn't do anything and Orochimaru tried to take control of him. If he wanted to kill him, Sasuke wouldn't do anything as he was paralyzed. You can't name it pure victory.
Alot of people tend to forget Sasuke was named after Hiruzen's father Sasuke Sarutobi who was said to be legendary not just in Naruto however IRL Japanese history states Sasuke Sarutobi was a legendary Shinobi who served Yukimura Sanada and led the jyushi the brave 10 also Saru monkey tobi jump Enma Staff ... 🤔 Monkey King also legendary you do the math 😂
Sarutobi's all is suffering jutsu decimates most of the verse Thee End. Not even an army of ninja with bonus chakra could stalemate a weakened Hashirama jutsu
Enma>hiruzen. Once enma showed up he was hard carrying hiruzen while he was sandbagging. No one ever gives enma credit lol. And hiruzen had to hold him back 😂.
Old man Onoki is better than his Prime if we reject his back problems and also even Deidara said 79 old Onoki is faster than in his prime lol. Also Onoki can't spam Particle style like every minute. If Gengetsu tied with Mu who has better abilities than Onoki. Prime Hiruzen can win the fight.
Imagine if hiruzen did kill orochimaru no sasuke ems and no edo Tensei hokage to help the war and defeat Madara mind you his summon is the MONKEY KING what dragon ball is based on what a shout out let’s help this one get 1mil views
Yeah, I don't buy it. Going from what we've seen, Hiruzen struggled with the Kyuubi, whereas Hashirama's feats with tailed beasts goes without saying. If Hiruzen shit bricks when the 1st used his part 1 wood style jutsu, if he saw what the 1st did during the valley of the end... * that_mud_jutsu_spew_off_panel_that_turned_into_a_huge_brown_rock.gif*
So where alot of people Go wrong is orichi is without a doubt the most talented sannin but hes by any means not the strongest. Im sure he wouldn’t have put up as good as a fight against pain.as for hiruzen . No kage comes close to him. Him being able to fight 2 edo tensei says enough but to ad on he was strong enough to be respected by the Uchiha clan enough that they had to plan their coup carefully because there was no one within the clan even remotely powerful enough to take hiruzen doen in a 1 v1 and thats as a old man let alone hiruzen at lets say jiraiya’s age or kakashi age
@@Virhtue Even Young Hiruzen during Tobirama's death was tier above Kagami and Danzo according to himself I don't trust novels as they're hyperbole feats especially with Kakashi who just has basic jutsus and they aren't written by Kishimoto. Sometimes they seem contradictory.
I'll say this. Tobirama fought Genkka and Kinnkacu without Charka, after battle for a day. An turned back to die. Saying they Huruzan beat them at full power is totally different than Tobirama with zero to 10% Charka
Tobirama fighting Kin and Gin without chakra or after a day of battle are just fan theories. All we know is that the Kinkaku force hunted down Tobirama's team and he sacrificed himself so his team would survive
@@donsamsey when we see the flash back Tobirama looks fatigued and we get lore on the Ginkaku simpling that they attacked a peace confirance and wounded Tobirama so that's proof
@@orpheemulemo8053 when we see the flashback, he has a few scratch marks. There's no panting so there's really no ground that he's fatigued. And the lore that he got ambushed doesn't happen the same day he died. The two events happened at completely different times.
@@donsamsey The ambush happened in the morning than them being chased happened at night few scratch marks indicat an attack not only that naruto characters don't need to pant to know there fatigued if they lost a lot of Chakra and we have ground for this as in the war arc Tobirama was able to sense people from continents away so him in that scene struggling to sense people from that distance already tells
What are you talking about, my Titles sure, but that’s because all those topics are done before, Seth is an inspiration for me and I’ve talked to him about it. But regardless my Thumbnail Style is a blend of two other creators and one doesn’t do it anymore and my Editing Style is based on an Editor in this space who works for Swag and TG because there isn’t anything to go off of. You act like there is a perfectly new and reasonable style. There isn’t.
All of this scaling is pointless. Ninja A defeating Ninja B does not translate to Ninja C also being able to defeat Ninja B, even if they're said to be stronger than Ninja A.
@Virhtue not true. What Im saying is that scaling doesnt apply to all scenarios. Narutos universe is more nuanced than the unga-bunga arguements made here on youtube. This isnt DBZ, the strongest ki blast doesnt always win.
Heavy Hiruzen glazing. Disingenuous in your video isn’t cool. You said Tobirama can only make 2 clones which is a lie. That was only due to the red flame Barrier ninjutsu. Hashirama was only able to make 4-5 due to the barrier and Minato could only make one. Meanwhile Hiruzen couldn’t make any clones while the barrier was up and his speed is so slow, he didn’t even attempt to attack Madara or Obito while he was transforming into the Ten Tails. Out of the 4 Hokage, he had the worst showings. Stop downplaying Tobirama to fit your corny video narrative. It’s heavily implied Tobirama can make more clones if the barrier isn’t active.
@@VirhtueDude you brought up the feat of Hiruzen creating 5 clones to stalemate the statue. Right after that, you tried to downplay Tobirama by mentioning he can only make 2 clones. Basically comparing them in that instance and leaving out the context that Barrier nerfed Tobirama in that instance. You compared their ability to make clones which is another comparison for how much chakra they have. Disingenuous. The kage were fatigued. Ohnoki would have used particular style on the statue.
@@Virhtueedo doesn’t take that long to regenerate. He was useless and not needed against Juubito. Out of all the Kage in the war, Hiruzen barely had impact. His only accomplishment in the war is saving Naruto and stopping the statue and that’s due to everyone else around him being fatigued because he sat back and barely helped. Bro had tons of chakra as a edo and watched for majority of the war. Bro’s garbage.
Prime Hiruzen wasn't at the level of Hashirama per statements from Edo Madara. He's above Tobirama but that's all you can believably put him over. Hashirama was the most powerful ninja pre 4th War.
@@Virhtue you can put Prime Hiruzen over Tobirama because the statements don't contradict each other. I also don't see Tobirama being relative to Hashirama because despite having Jutsu specifically designed to fight Uchiha, not once do we see Madara and Tobirama fight pre 4th War. The problem I see with putting Prime Hiruzen at least at Hashirama level is from statements from Edo Madara. If Prime Hiruzen was that strong, why didn't Madara gas him up like he did multiple times with Hashirama? Madara knew about Edo Tensei and would've known of the feats from Prime Hiruzen because it doesn't make sense for Madara to not factor in key players that could become a problem. Yet not one time does Edo Madara even mention nor even acknowledge Hiruzen when he did show up.
That’s what I’m saying bro. Tobirama easily claps Hiruzen. Minato also claps. Hashirama claps. Hokage Kakashi claps. His best match up is Tsunade but she low key claps too.
@@ExoticZah in order the hokages go Naruto, Hashirama, Minato, DMS Kakashi, Tobirama, Tsunade, Hiruzen. Honestly, I just don't think Hiruzen has anything that can take out Tsunade and she would have one shot him.
Another thing that could be mentioned to solidify Hiruzen and what state he was brought back in would be how Kishimoto is very consistent in how he draws Hiruzen’s wrinkles at certain times. For example during the Nine tails attack in chapter 501, Hiruzen has darker hair and TWO wrinkles. During the Uchiha Massacre, in both the 550 and 220 flashback, Hiruzen has THREE wrinkles. And lastly during his part one bout in chapter 120 he has four wrinkles against Orochimaru which is the exact amount shown on chapter 639 when reanimated aswell. So just a little note, Hiruzen was revived at Konoha Crush…
Old man Hiruzen is at the top of Sannin/Kage level. He was supposed to be retired but had to come back and keep running the village because Minato died. He was weakened by age. He had a mental nerf, but so did Orochimaru. And then when he gathers the resolve to use the Reaper Death Seal and goes to make Shadow Clones (unwise under normal circunstances), seal the Edo Hokage, disarm and blitz Orochimaru, he's clearly mentally amped. The most explicit evidence for that his the fact that those feats are preceded by his Will of Fire, "the village is my family and I am the pillar that supports the tree, and after me a stronger Hokage will come from the new leaves" monologue. Therefore, I put him right next to full power Orochimaru, and I don't think he breaks into the High Kage tier (where he would get close to SM Naruto, Tendou Pain, and V2 A) without a mental amp.
Edo Hiruzen is stronger because, despite the Edo Tensei nerf, he's not limited by age. In this sense, aging is treated like a disease by the Edo Tensei, as Edo Hiruzen coming back stronger than when we last saw him is in practice the same thing that happened to Itachi and Kimimaro. I think there's enough evidence to scale him to around the level of Edo Tobirama, either above or below. I personally call that Hokage level/tier, because that's where I put all the Edo Hokage plus alive Tobirama and Minato.
And the fabled Prime Hiruzen has to be stronger than the Edo version. Basically Edo Hiruzen was free of the age nerf, then take that and remove the Edo Tensei nerf. From the Edo scaling, I also put prime Hiruzen next to alive Tobirama. I don't think there's enough reason to scale him above Minato. All there is is that one "strongest Hokage, God of Shinobi" argument that also implies he was stronger than Hashirama, which is stupid. Plus, I think one of the reasons Minato was made Hokage as early as he did was because he surpassed Hiruzen.
You made a point that ive thought of for years and heard no one else say. Prime Hiruzin could be stonger than base Hashirama and not sage mode due to how little people probably know about him.
It’s both Likely, and Cool!
Yes but Sage mode Hashirama is way stronger and Ten Thousand Healing Hands Hashirama power scales miles above him.
Now that I think about it Sage mode is essentially how Senju-Uzumaki gain more chakra, using the Mangekyo Sharingan to control Tailed Beasts is how Uchiha gain more chakra. Susanoo is the stronger battle mode for the Uchiha, Wood Golem is the stronger battle mode for the Senju. Complete Susanoo is the ultimate battle mode for the Uchiha, True Several Thousand Hands. Uzumaki stronger battle mode is using their sealing fuinjutsu to seal a Tailed Beast giving them Chakra mode. Uzumaki ultimate battle mode is a Tailed Beast Avatar.
@@Virhtueu wanna make the definitive “explaining itachis monstrous strength” vid? I pioneered a lot of the arguments for itachi back in the day and there’s a ton of shit mfs still continue to miss
Makes sense considering most people in the shinobi world only saw base hashirama and not him when he is in sage mode.
Finally a good view about hiruzen I don’t understand how all these people keep making videos about hiruzen being a crappy hokage makes no sense
Hiruzen is literally stated twice to be the most loved hokage
Hiruzen with sage mode would've been insane
Very true
Actually he deserves Sage Mode more than any character in Naruto except Hashirama maybe cuz Hiruzen is a mixture of Sasuke sarutobi and Sun Wukong ( Sun Wukong is associated with Senjutsu in stories )
@@decidueye2963 if hashi can have a sage mode to fight hiruzen to see whos the strongest then its only fair for him to have sage mode too mokey sage mode
@@dlp3rdlegend Well that would be shame when Kishi didn't gave Senjutsu to a character that's inspired from Sun Wukong and gave that to one's not related with it like Jiraiya.
*sigh*Let me get my donuts ready
damn only 12 minutes my boy turning into slackthue… lol jokes aside dope video always wanted a prime hiruzen analysis!
There’s not all that much to talk about😭😭
Great vid😎. Video idea Hiruzen vs edo gokage (Mu raasa etc) gauntlet. Or even edo gokage (Mu raasa etc) + Hiruzen vs madara in place of 5kage
That’s actually a vid I have planned😭
@@Virhtuemy guy😎
Good video, I think you did a good job of at least showing why Hiruzen should be quite a bit above Sanin level.
However, my biggest issue with people saying Hiruzen was the strongest or second strongest Hokage is based on how he did during the 9 Tails Invasion. Yes, this Hiruzen is past his prime, but he wasn’t THAT old. At the start of the series he’s 68, Naruto is 12, which means Hiruzen would’ve been 56 when Obito and Kurama attacked. For reference, Jiraiya and Tsunade are both in their early 50’s, and neither are really implied to be past their prime. Madara actually notes that the old ass Onoki in the war is stronger than he was as a young adult when he fought Madara. Thus, it doesn’t really seem like 56 year old Hiruzen should be that much weaker than he was in his prime. Yet he can’t do much against Kurama aside from hold him off until Minato arrives. If the guy was that strong I just don’t think Minato should’ve even been necessary to stop Kurama.
Its possible he was much older than the databooks state as he was portrayed to seem much older when he fought Oro.
1. The professor
2. Student of the Famous Senju Brothers
3. The Sensei and Father of the Sannin
4. Danzo’s B***h
Whatever you know him as, he’s undeniably strong
Danzo part is backwards😭😭
@@Virhtuenot backwards, Hiruzen allowed Danzo to have too much power, hence why the Uchiha died and many children were experimented on.
@@ExoticZah reach
Yeah in his prime he should be vastly above the 5 kage, like not even close. BUT I believe the Kages scale higher than old man hiruzen tbh
Great vid and love your channel! I have questions or possibly an idea for a vid-how much did the Akatsuki members (aside from Konan) know about Pain? Did they know he killed Hanzo or that he was the leader of the Rain Village? Did Orochimaru recognize Tendo Pain (Yahiko) as one of the Ame orphans? Had any of the members seen any of the other Pain Paths? Did they know about the rinnegan or any of powers he possessed? Did any of them know he was an Uzumaki? I would find it odd if none of them knew anything about him and just randomly accepted him as leader and followed his orders, but none of this is really covered in the anime. Thanks!
That is interesting, I can answer most of those just comment back the specific one
I lean more into the prime hiruzen is somewhere slighty stronger than the sanin, maybe around pain level.
For starters him being greater than the other 5 kage was stated by kabuto if i recall, and i have to ask whether I'm going to take him as the bastion of all knowledge. I have no idea if he's seen ay, onoki or mei in combat. The data book statement of the hokage standing above the rest, literally has in the next sentence "none can compete with his wisdom". To use that as the hokage automatically stronger fighter than other kage doesn't seem like the only way and imo the way that should be interpreted.
Additionally, the scaling of him being stronger than tobirama cuz he was more talented kind of flues in the face of the series which champions hard work can match and surpass talent with examples being gai, lee, and the titular naruto. This is especially so as tobirama is noted in one of the data books as being especially focused on self improvement. To say he was more talented = he was stronger doesn't sit right with me.
Additionally i believe his edo form gives a good description of how prime hiruzen could be. No before u disagree saying he was ressurected as a 70 yr old so he was not in his prime, I'd say that the edos all shiwed to not have their physical ailments from their living bodies. Case in point edo itachi wasn't sick, sasori had his human body not just a cylinder of flesh, kakuzu didn't have a hole in his chest etc. The only counterclaim would edo nagato who still had his leg injuries from his encounter with hanzo (it's weird but it's the only exception i can find). Nonetheless, once he absorbed chakra he was back to his alive red haired self. This would appy both ways as during the war arc naruto shared his kyubi clock with even the edo hokage.
So using my logic, he as an edo shouldn't have the pressing drawbacks of age or at the bare minimum it should be notably lessened. And with all that stalemating the elemental attcks of zetsu is impressive i don't believe the five kage were all at full power while combating the statue. You can infer this as ay doesn't have his lightning cloak. Tsunade healed them but it didn't mean she restored their full chakra volume. If they were fully healthy, it wouldn't make sense why they didn't use the giant particle style combo attack they used on madara on the statue because zetsu had no counter for that.
Another point to lend some credence to my argument would be madara as he wants to fight strong opponents seen with him immediately calling out hashirama when the edo kage arrived on the battlefield and him getting excited to fight gai. He makes no mention or even check out the potential greater than hashirama combatant. Even if you disagree that edo reduces the age debuff, it's suprising that madara didn't even mention or check him out especially as he interacted with the other 3 kage.
His renown for mastering all the jutsu of the leaf is also weird cuz i seen translations of the statement that limit it to konoha jutsu like the blade jutsu the jonin instructor from the chunin exams used against baki. Even taking it very charitably that he knows everything from shadow possession to the rasengan, knowing a jutsu and being able to have it be combat effective are two things. The hokage guard trio knew ftg but it required 3 of them to pull of one teleportation.
All in all, i scale prime hiruzen to around the pain levels.
Pain still cooks him
Same here
I'm glad some people have the sense to give the Professor some respect.
Very true
Thank you for doing justice by my favorite Hokage.
Love to hear that, who would you like to see next?
Finally, the monkey hokage!🔥🍃
Indeed!🔥
I think the databooks fudged up his age and he was closer to Onokis age.
Which is 94
Hiruzen was 69 when he died, he would've been 72 if he lived in shippuden, Ohnoki was in his 70s in shippuden
You don’t miss brother
He made more clones than Tobirama when the barrier was down when he fought the wooden statue that was near end game war arc.
He never makes more clones than that after leaving the barrier
Hiruzen is fr insanely strong🔥
He and Hashirama are the only 2 people to ever _physically_ overpower the Full Nine-Tails. Hashirama used Wood Style constraints and Hiruzen (at 55yrs+ old) used Enma Staff and his _own physically_ strength.
He's also _the_ most knowledgeable Hokage ever and learnt every jutsu (except ftg).
I don't think anyone realizes how absolutely INSANE it is that as a 70yr+ Hiruzen (a.k.a the 2nd OLDEST person on earth) and still damn near stalemated Full Power Orochimaru, Weakend Edo Tobirama _&_ Weakened Edo Hashirama *all at the same time.*
If some random person did anyone of those feats they'd be literally world-famous
Exactly, spot on!
Orochimaru was also nerfed during that. Points off for neglecting to mention that.
It’s not neglected, in order for that to be the case it’s your burden to substantiate Oro’s nerf to of a higher level than Hiruzen’s which is virtually impossible
Kekw
@@VirhtueI think that he is joking.
@@forgive.them. hopefully the Hiruzen video is a joke cuz some of his points were bad.
@@ExoticZah gdamn bro
Commenting for algorithm, hope you have a great year
I appreciate that very much, you too brother
SPITTIN 🔥
💯
Love the video and love hiruzen my favorite hokage he is the strongest and a god of shinobi
Glad you enjoyed it my friend
@@Virhtue I sure did 😁 the more I see hiruzen the more I love it keep up the great work
the title god of shinobi is in reference to that point in time at that time hiruzen was the strongest kage hence the term imo scales justslighlty above ohnoki and on gengetsu and lord Muu
The anime guide stating Orochimaru is not from Hiruzen's perspective and also has anime-only content which conflicts with the manga. Id est, canoncity is dubious, there. Ebisu did not tell Jiraiya Orochimaru could be above him. He just said a Sannin is needed to fight another Sannin. Being a top-class genius (on its own) would not inherently make Orochimaru superior, either, as many have kept up with geniuses through other means. Not that I think Orochimaru is not the strongest Sannin (I believe he is), just that it is not by that wide a margin or that the evidence is overwhelming in his favour.
Kakashi is only shown opening the first of the eight gates. The gates are also not really a jutsu in the typical sense.
It’s the anniversary guide that discusses Ebisu
i’ve always put hiruzen above the sannin and five kage just not to the point where he can defeat them all in a 1 v 3 or 1 v 4 (unless he makes shadow clones ofc). the strongest out of the 5 kage and stronger than the sannin. the man that lived by the will of fire his entire life-hiruzen sarutobi
Personally, I don't think Sasuke would have beaten Orochimaru. Yes, he cut Orochimaru very hard and he was lying on the floor, but the fumes paralyzed Sasuke (supposedly immune to toxins). Sasuke couldn't do anything and Orochimaru tried to take control of him. If he wanted to kill him, Sasuke wouldn't do anything as he was paralyzed. You can't name it pure victory.
Alot of people tend to forget Sasuke was named after Hiruzen's father Sasuke Sarutobi who was said to be legendary not just in Naruto however IRL Japanese history states Sasuke Sarutobi was a legendary Shinobi who served Yukimura Sanada and led the jyushi the brave 10 also Saru monkey tobi jump Enma Staff ... 🤔 Monkey King also legendary you do the math 😂
I want to know what Hiruzen had that made him stronger than the other Kage because he was a Kage with Ohnoki,Rasa, Yagura and A
Sarutobi's all is suffering jutsu decimates most of the verse Thee End.
Not even an army of ninja with bonus chakra could stalemate a weakened Hashirama jutsu
YESSSSSSSSSSSIRRERRRRR
🙏🏻🙏🏻
Video idea: Top 15 strongest shinobi in naruto non otsutsuki included
That is one I have planned
@@Virhtue looking forward to it just want to say I very much enjoy all of your videos, and I appreciate your interaction with your subscribers
@@jetyv350 thank you very much, I love that people enjoy my content, weird feeling!
So we switching up on hokages for a THIRD TIME????
Enma>hiruzen. Once enma showed up he was hard carrying hiruzen while he was sandbagging. No one ever gives enma credit lol. And hiruzen had to hold him back 😂.
The feat of pushing the nine tails comes from enma too. Hiruzen just isn’t that strong, people say he’s on pain level which is ridiculous.
But...Enma is Hiruzen's power
W
You already know
I find him to be the goat, especially after seeing orochimaru during the rest of naruto... Def not fodder
True
Ohnoki prime vs Hiruzen Prime.
Ohnoki clears him
Hiruzen slaughters
@@ExoticZah you will never be able to substantiate that
@@Virhtue I was thinking the same. Ohnoki def has particle style but Hiruzen’s showings scale above Ohnoki’s speed, durability and reaction time.
Old man Onoki is better than his Prime if we reject his back problems and also even Deidara said 79 old Onoki is faster than in his prime lol.
Also Onoki can't spam Particle style like every minute. If Gengetsu tied with Mu who has better abilities than Onoki. Prime Hiruzen can win the fight.
Imagine if hiruzen did kill orochimaru no sasuke ems and no edo Tensei hokage to help the war and defeat Madara mind you his summon is the MONKEY KING what dragon ball is based on what a shout out let’s help this one get 1mil views
Yeah, I don't buy it. Going from what we've seen, Hiruzen struggled with the Kyuubi, whereas Hashirama's feats with tailed beasts goes without saying. If Hiruzen shit bricks when the 1st used his part 1 wood style jutsu, if he saw what the 1st did during the valley of the end... * that_mud_jutsu_spew_off_panel_that_turned_into_a_huge_brown_rock.gif*
Hiruzen didn't shit bricks he was basically worried about the wood style that's infamous for basically taming tailed beasts I can't blame him
So where alot of people
Go wrong is orichi is without a doubt the most talented sannin but hes by any means not the strongest. Im sure he wouldn’t have put up as good as a fight against pain.as for hiruzen . No kage comes close to him. Him being able to fight 2 edo tensei says enough but to ad on he was strong enough to be respected by the Uchiha clan enough that they had to plan their coup carefully because there was no one within the clan even remotely powerful enough to take hiruzen doen in a 1 v1 and thats as a old man let alone hiruzen at lets say jiraiya’s age or kakashi age
Didn't Young Hiruzen happily stated himself he's stronger than all his teammates including Kagami and Danzo ?
Yes he did and the Sakura novel also states Hiruzen fought and beat Danzo for the title of hokage sometime after this
@@Virhtue Even Young Hiruzen during Tobirama's death was tier above Kagami and Danzo according to himself
I don't trust novels as they're hyperbole feats especially with Kakashi who just has basic jutsus and they aren't written by Kishimoto. Sometimes they seem contradictory.
FUCKKKKK YEAH 💯
I'll say this. Tobirama fought Genkka and Kinnkacu without Charka, after battle for a day. An turned back to die. Saying they Huruzan beat them at full power is totally different than Tobirama with zero to 10% Charka
Tobirama fighting Kin and Gin without chakra or after a day of battle are just fan theories. All we know is that the Kinkaku force hunted down Tobirama's team and he sacrificed himself so his team would survive
@@donsamsey when we see the flash back Tobirama looks fatigued and we get lore on the Ginkaku simpling that they attacked a peace confirance and wounded Tobirama so that's proof
@@orpheemulemo8053 when we see the flashback, he has a few scratch marks. There's no panting so there's really no ground that he's fatigued.
And the lore that he got ambushed doesn't happen the same day he died. The two events happened at completely different times.
@@donsamsey The ambush happened in the morning than them being chased happened at night few scratch marks indicat an attack not only that naruto characters don't need to pant to know there fatigued if they lost a lot of Chakra and we have ground for this as in the war arc Tobirama was able to sense people from continents away so him in that scene struggling to sense people from that distance already tells
Prime Hiruzen>Prime Tobirama
My personal Hokage top 5 in terms of strength all using their primes Naruto > Kakashi > Hashirama > Minato > Hiruzen
Interesting
I think you’re a good scaler but bruh , don’t use seth the programmer titles and editing style too 😭 just makes you seem like a style biter
What are you talking about, my Titles sure, but that’s because all those topics are done before, Seth is an inspiration for me and I’ve talked to him about it. But regardless my Thumbnail Style is a blend of two other creators and one doesn’t do it anymore and my Editing Style is based on an Editor in this space who works for Swag and TG because there isn’t anything to go off of. You act like there is a perfectly new and reasonable style. There isn’t.
Mental amped hiruzen >>> momoshiki
All of this scaling is pointless. Ninja A defeating Ninja B does not translate to Ninja C also being able to defeat Ninja B, even if they're said to be stronger than Ninja A.
You don’t understand scaling at all
@Virhtue not true. What Im saying is that scaling doesnt apply to all scenarios. Narutos universe is more nuanced than the unga-bunga arguements made here on youtube. This isnt DBZ, the strongest ki blast doesnt always win.
@@Virhtue moreover, I agree with you about Hiruzen.
Heavy Hiruzen glazing. Disingenuous in your video isn’t cool. You said Tobirama can only make 2 clones which is a lie. That was only due to the red flame Barrier ninjutsu.
Hashirama was only able to make 4-5 due to the barrier and Minato could only make one.
Meanwhile Hiruzen couldn’t make any clones while the barrier was up and his speed is so slow, he didn’t even attempt to attack Madara or Obito while he was transforming into the Ten Tails.
Out of the 4 Hokage, he had the worst showings. Stop downplaying Tobirama to fit your corny video narrative. It’s heavily implied Tobirama can make more clones if the barrier isn’t active.
And did I ever once correlate it to power? No I just rhetorically brought it up
@@VirhtueDude you brought up the feat of Hiruzen creating 5 clones to stalemate the statue.
Right after that, you tried to downplay Tobirama by mentioning he can only make 2 clones. Basically comparing them in that instance and leaving out the context that Barrier nerfed Tobirama in that instance.
You compared their ability to make clones which is another comparison for how much chakra they have. Disingenuous.
The kage were fatigued. Ohnoki would have used particular style on the statue.
@@ExoticZahbrother he just putting it out there why are you getting triggered he never really wanked him tbh
I think he's probably around A. That's it.
😭
@@Virhtue What/Where/Who do you think his ceiling is at?
@@i.q.1979 somewhere between Base Hashirama and Sage Hashi, probably closer to base
If he's truly that strong, why was he useless during the Kage fight?
Because he was gone and blown apart for most of it after he reacted to juubito
@@Virhtue That's true 😯😯😯
@@Virhtueedo doesn’t take that long to regenerate. He was useless and not needed against Juubito. Out of all the Kage in the war, Hiruzen barely had impact. His only accomplishment in the war is saving Naruto and stopping the statue and that’s due to everyone else around him being fatigued because he sat back and barely helped.
Bro had tons of chakra as a edo and watched for majority of the war. Bro’s garbage.
Prime Hiruzen wasn't at the level of Hashirama per statements from Edo Madara. He's above Tobirama but that's all you can believably put him over. Hashirama was the most powerful ninja pre 4th War.
It is sort of disingenuous to cherry pick Tobirama and not Hashirama when Base Hashirama and Tobirama are relative
@@Virhtue you can put Prime Hiruzen over Tobirama because the statements don't contradict each other. I also don't see Tobirama being relative to Hashirama because despite having Jutsu specifically designed to fight Uchiha, not once do we see Madara and Tobirama fight pre 4th War.
The problem I see with putting Prime Hiruzen at least at Hashirama level is from statements from Edo Madara. If Prime Hiruzen was that strong, why didn't Madara gas him up like he did multiple times with Hashirama? Madara knew about Edo Tensei and would've known of the feats from Prime Hiruzen because it doesn't make sense for Madara to not factor in key players that could become a problem. Yet not one time does Edo Madara even mention nor even acknowledge Hiruzen when he did show up.
The Minato victim needs more respect frr
😂
Ong
He is a minato victim but he don't need no more respect
Hiruzen is not even in the top 5 of Hokages. 😂😂😂 I'm here for the arguments in the comments
That’s what I’m saying bro. Tobirama easily claps Hiruzen. Minato also claps. Hashirama claps. Hokage Kakashi claps. His best match up is Tsunade but she low key claps too.
@@ExoticZah in order the hokages go Naruto, Hashirama, Minato, DMS Kakashi, Tobirama, Tsunade, Hiruzen. Honestly, I just don't think Hiruzen has anything that can take out Tsunade and she would have one shot him.