@@Cookie_chris I've done the 6pm to 6am in the past. Doing the whole nocturnal thing showed me a type loneliness I had no clue existed. I didn't watch this channel in those days but quality YT videos were like a dose of normality and engagement when everything felt so far off. It can be hard so I'm glad you have stuff like this
@@AttainTheGrain I think Great Enpire of the Dawn in the East and the Dawn Age in Westeros happened at the same time. Like LML talked about early in this stream, The Numenors (did I spell that right?) are the direct inspiration for Valyrian/GEOTD/Dayne but the Numenors were half elf. I know it in my plums that this is where the Children of the Forest come in but I cant quite piece it together. Im certain they taught humans the arts of dragon taming and riding. I just dont know when or why. We do know the people who taught the first humans to ride dragons were a people so old nobody remembers their name. When Bran asks Leaf for her real name, she says something like its too long for any human to remember. I think this is a direct referrence to the COTF and the people who taught humans to ride dragons are one and the same. Maybe the Pact was actually made by GEOTD and not First Men? GEOTD/Valyrians suddenly got dragons. What did the First Men get for this pact? Not dragons.
@williamhermann6635 something tells me the Children are very vaguely related to the dragons and not directly involved in their creation/coming (two totally different ideas). I've been playing with the idea that maybe the whole soul stuffing idea isn't wrong , the gods of old Valyria may be real and / or ancestors of the current of Targs, and one of them might've defected in some way and hijacked the greensight network instead of going into a dragon's spirit (and is pulling strings as "R'hollor" and manipulating targs and others into world domination for valyria, over thousands of years). That's one of the h3adcannons I've been working on recently. I love this series, lol.
@@AttainTheGrain I dont see why the COTF wouldnt be responsible for dragon taming. They can warg any other animal and seem to be in tune with all things nature. We even get a possible example of a COTF taming a dragon in the story. Nettles. Her description sounds like a COTF in disguise. And she tamed Sheepstealer. She definitely doesnt have Valyrian blood. Leaf says she walked among men for 200 years. That means Leaf was alive and walking amongst men during the time Nettles was alive. Theyre potentially the same character. COTF taught the First Men weirwood magic in Westeros, why couldnt they do the same with Bloodstone Emperor in the Far East? I think they taught Bloodstone Emperor to tame dragons who then went and founded Valyria. GRRM said Valyria was just coming into power around the time of the Long Night implying the GEOTD had already begun its migration seeing as BSE was the last Gemstone Emperor. Also, Valyria (and dragons) coming into power at this time could imply a correlation with the Long Night. Valyria and dragons could have convinced the COTF to then create The Others in response. Ice and fire.
Idk why "road crew dragons" makes me laugh. Like valerian tax payers complaining about why they bother paying their live stock tax to the roadcrew dragons when the roads have potholes.😂
I love the idea that *Westeros* is the weird exotic place filled with magic that the people from the civilized Essos came to in order to explore the magic.
Asshai and the the Great Empire simply have to be the same thing, because if they weren't there'd be lots of crazy myths about the two culture's interactions. Great chat btw.
@@VeteranVandal Yes. It really get's across the notion that modern planetos just can't conceive of an empire being that vast. It's beyond anyone now. And so they don't make the mental leap that this ancient super city is part of that ancient super empire.
I just got back from a work trip, showered and made my favorite meal. There is nothing I could have wanted to see more right now when opening youtube than an iceberg stream on the great empire of the dawn from LML. Thank you very much
I’m relataively new to the the channel, but I’m glad to see the content it still ripe and fresh! I haven’t found a video I disliked! I am also glad that you have continued to show signs of improvement over all this time! Makes me hopeful for the future of your ASOIAF dissections in the future! Keep up your great works!!!
YESSSSSSSS- theoretically putting it all together is just what i needed🙌 new fan! Been really enjoying the catalogue of content! The empire of the dawn is particularly interesting!
If Casterly Rock was one of the First Men castle with Weirwood wards like Storm's End and the High Tower, then you could say that Lann the Clever did literally invade and usurp a part of the Weirwood Net
Commenting early in, but re-hearing that part where Dany sees the what might be the people of the Great Empire of the Dawn was interesting after all the theories we have now. They were looking at her, telling her to wake the dragon, and then SHE became the dragon. That goes along with the draqomorph theory well, I think! That it was them who made the dragons out of the Valyerions!
Wow when I first started this thing I was like “there’s no way it’s edited down like this AND it’s four hours long??” Great stream, this stuff is particularly suited to the iceberg format.
14:50 I always thought George did that thing with the storm breaking parts of Dragonstone as an intentional thing, as if the storm god and the drowned god did not want Dany to be born. He keeps coming back to her being Storm-born
He's referring to the classic mythical struggle between the dragon and the storm God that you see all over the world. Robert and Rhaegar fighting is another iteration of this idea
it’s the best! stumbled upon your channel a couple weeks ago and i’ve been binging it like crazy, i really appreciate all the time and energy you’ve put into all this. had to take a mental hiatus from ASOIAF after GOT ended but i’m fully back and locked in now. makes me wanna reread the books with this refreshed perspective on all the more mysterious stuff in the series.
I hope that Yi Ti animated show will bring us some great empire of the dawn or at least blood stone emperor lore. It won't be an adaptation of any existing story and will be animated, so it could even be considered canon to the books if George wants it to be.
Fuck yeah. Honestly, my favorite bit of deep lore. This is the key to everything. I know we wont get every question i have about GEoTD answered, but i do hope we get some kind of astral messaging or trippy visuals that hint aggressively at it. Just like the kingly ghosts Dany sees in the Undying, i hope we see something that wont mean much to the casual reader, but will scream Dawn Empire to us Myth Heads
I promise you brother when i am back at work, because i was laid off recently, the plant i worked in had to cut labor but when i get back to work and my income is steady again i really really want to send you a donation for all your work. youve helped teach me so much about this world and I GENUINELY mean that i WANT to contribute to the continued success of your channel. you are great content creator, and lore contemplator, ive never heard you ask for a dime and if did i would still feel the same way because i know you are as genuine with your work as much i genuinely appreciate it.
I had never really thought about it until you discussed how Blackfyre can be taken to mean Blood Stone, but now I find it very interesting that House Targaryen has both the swords Blackfyre and Dark Sister and the Bloodstone Emperor killed his Sister and rival to usurp her. I also started thinking about the Blackfyre 1st Rebellion where Daemon who carries Blackfyre is killed by Blood Raven, Dark sisters carrier, using Weirwood arrows. So Daemon Blackfyre being killed is like Azor Ahai going into the weirwood net
I like the idea that dragons once roosted on Battle Isle. Does that mean it is volcanic in nature? Because I have an idea that Leyton and Malora are hatching a dragon from an egg laid by Tessarion, maybe she had her lair in Battle Isle
"So the god-emperors, were they greenseers? The term god-emperor is taken from Dune; and the god-emperors of Dune (actually just one) are called god-emperors because they are psychic (technically not), which are kinda like lizard-people, and they had long lives, but the main thing is that they're psychic." What makes Leto the Godemperor, aside from lineage and religion, is that he merges with the Sandtrouts to become a semi-immortal worm-like creature himself. That worminess is the most interesting parallel, I think. After 3500 years there are basically no worms, trouts and plankton left on Arrakis - all consolidated into the Godemperor - and he is killed with a laser, which releases a bunch of new Sandtrouts from his body that now also carry his DNA (the wiki says that this enables the worms to be settled on other planets as well, though it is heavily implied that the Sandworm didn't originate on Arrakis either). This worminess at least hints at a link between the Godemperor from Dune and Dracomorph Theory, indeed paralleling the lizard people in ASOIAF (though the process is very different it seems). The theme of cyclical consolidation / expansion of life is also core to the metaphysics of Elden Ring as well. Its also more or less outright stated that magic came from space, paralleling the extraterrestrial origin of dragons and possibly most/all magic on Planetos. The expansion and contraction of magic and dragon population is also paralleled in ASOIAF and seems to be more of an intentional choice in writing than a coincidence. The merging of bodies and DNA is also heavily featured in Elden Ring. So IF we interpret the greenseer kings as a parallel to the Godemperor in Dune, that means that the dragons and the greenseers most likely have the same wormy origin. And not only the greenseers. Unlike to Leto's transformation into the god-worm, the Navigators, who gain extreme levels of precognition by consuming great quantities of the spice melange, become "aquatic" in appearance and have to be shipped around in tanks. In Elden Ring, an aquatic appearance is associated with undeath (most prominently Godwyn the Golden turning into the merman-like Prince of Death), while in ASOIAF it hints at squisher involvement. How the spice melange forms might also matter. From the fandom wiki: "It was created in a process whereby the fungal excretions of sandtrout would mix with water to form a pre-spice mass. This mass would then be brought to the surface of the desert through an explosion of pressure, and under the intense heat and air of Arrakis, melange would form." Note that the Sandworm's larval form apparently shits fungi. So IF we read these parallels very literally, we can hypothesize that Squishers came to be by consuming very large amounts of "processed" dracomorph shit regularly. The fungal Weirwoods might be either solidified dracomorph shit or the result of dracomoph larvae merging with a species of plant or fungus, or they might be something else entirely - weirs to catch the draco-sandworm-morph trouts (are greenseers trouts???). None of this is conclusive, of course, but it shows us where we can look for proof for these ideas: symbolic parallels in trouts and worms, as well as magic substances brought forth by pressure explosions and processed by exposure to heat/sunlight. So maybe we need to pay very close attention to the contents of Edmure's chamberpot, if he appears in WoW. There is a big difference, though. The Xenomorph is strictly a parasite, it needs a host to reproduce. The Sandworm lifecycle is naturally self-contained and only external intervention leads to a merging of DNA.
I was going to 'like' this vid...But I literally Already Had! I love that I can rewatch these presentations and discover new layers within it, just like the book itself. Loving the edited Live + art loooooong format. Thank you kindly
Great video and thank you, as always, for the shout outs. I'm hoping to redo the gemstone emperors in the nearish future and when I do I'll send it over
I just remembered, there is another Elric story that supports the idea that ASOIAF Valyria mirrors Melnibone. In one of the stories, Elric goes to an island, which is kinda like Sothoryos, where he finds the original land of Melniboeneans, who lived in peace until chaos gods corrupted them and thought them to harness dragons. He also fights lizard people there, who are said to be descendants of these first Melniboneans.
17:48 David, again great video! I love that you tied Numenor here. They arrived at the island following Earendil whose body and whole ship was turned into a star. His son Elros would have brought Narsil from their home in Beleriand and became their first king. It only makes sense that down through ages the sword would have eventually come to Elros’s brother Elrond Half-Elven which makes all these individuals Aragorn’s, as much as Arwen’s, ancestors.
Has anyone ever brought up the idea that the Valerian sorcerers used the souls of a sacrificed dragon to create Valerian Steel? It makes sense. No one has created a Valerian Steel sword since the doom, when there were probably enough Dragons to not worry about sacrificing a few, but the Targyreans clearly couldnt afford to lose a single one. George does say the knowledge to create Valerian Steel was lost with the doom of Valeria.
Excellent video as always. So much to ponder. Thinking about the apparent post-cataclysm exodus from GEotD (moving across Essos, to the Reach, Starfall, the Iron Islands etc) I'm struck by the echoes we see in the Roynar, but just in the other direction. Leaving home, travelling far, people get left behind as they go, spreading out and affecting the culture where they end up, some die, some thrive, etc etc.
Relating the Daynes to the faithful Númenóreans makes me think of the kings men that stayed under saurons influence to eventually die in the sinking of numenor(they also practiced human sacrifice, as the valyrians did). The valyrians began their colony where slavery, blood magic, industry and greed were their priorities, leading to the doom. The Daynes fled to westeros long before that with dawn, not succumbing to the dark path the valyrians eventually did. Seeing the parallels between the two groups makes me wonder if there's more george was inspired by from that story that can help explain what happened to cause the doom, the dragonlords origins etc
YOOOOOO WHAT!!!!! Also David I hope one day you’ll be doing breakdowns and theory’s of my book series. I’m taking MANY notes and inspirations, because even if one or a few of your theory’s about ASOIAF are true many won’t be, but are still amazing and mind boggling! My series has dinosaurs as a large part of the world, but also “magic” thank you!
Thought: What if Asshai was the capitol before succumbing to its own variation of doom in the shadow and taint that now defines that peninsula. The Amethyst bloodline fled the moon meteor drama and founded Valyria much like the Targs later used their trade outpost as a jumping off point to conquer westeros. Or is this what you're building to? I have to get ready for work, I won't be able to finish this video before the weekend. 😢
If Qarth as a civilization is a bit of a prototype or farcical imitation of the Great Empire of the Dawn, then their "Pureborn" rulers, sitting on "wooden thrones of their ancestors" and "dreaming" could be rather than meaning they themselves represent Grreenseer kings, but implying they are an imitation of the true Greenseer kings of the GotD
the disputed land did a really good video recently. the theory is valyrians were slaved crossed with dragons by blood magic, but it was an attempt to create more docile controllable dragons or to create other magical creatures like manticores and harpys, and the dragon bond was a sort of unintended byproduct. which is why a civilization of shepards went from being slaves to conquering and becoming the most powerful civilizations.
1:03:25 basically the start of the Age of Strife. It's also grimdark but on the more "fantasy" end than "sci-fi" Regardless of if you're on a distant planet, or a remote colony far from your homeland, the idea of suddenly being (probably permanently ) cut off from all facets of familiarity and realising you're now totally isolated is horrific to me. It's fun to see common themes across genres and I would argue that both are at their best when used to examine deeper, longer held themes like loneliness, love and the need most have for a connection to a homeland
a very comprehensive overview of these theories, thank you! Just a tiny correction; tigers don't have slit pupils, they're round, more like yours than that of a house cat, so they're not "cat eyed" despite actually being cats , vertical pupils is more a characteristic of small cats (and otr small, nocturnal or otherwise low to the ground predators) , not large ones, so that particular anatomical detail shouldn't be a link between Leng and CotF. And loved the about face re Lemurs ^^ yeah I think they were named by Linnaeus himself in the 18ct, so by a swede, not a brit, but otherwise spot on.
1:09:58 It's a shame we don't actually have a full world map, or know how much of the world the map we do have covers. A meteoroid breaking up like that would leave its debris along a great circle, and that circle could be traced.
@@DavidLightbringer Maybe they put some fire worms inside people and bind them with magic to make the valyrians, like in Children of Dune, Leto II Atraides does that but with baby sand worms and a LOT of spice, and thats how he becomes a sandworm god 🤔 he and the worms became one
Oh, and make sure to watch it twice, especially if you're watching on double speed, or 1.5. YT only logs your actual watch time, not how much of the video you watch. If like me, you're watching on 2x speed, you're only gonna log just under 2 hours of watch time. So, twice!
I think the Valyrians were the original Dragon Keepers. They were used by Empire of the Dawn people who would send dragons from the Shadow to Valyria to be kept by Valyrians. With how volcanic Valyria is it's a great place to keep dragons in their down time. The shepherds myth comes from the simple fact that sheep are a great food source for dragons so a big part of their role would be to keep lots of sheep to feed to the dragons. Interbreeding between Empire of the Dawn people and Valyrians probably lead to them being able to control/ride them, either that or blood magic rituals performed on them. The Storming of the Dragon Pit is possibly a parallel of the "Shepherd" Valyrians fighting off the weakened remaining Empire people after the Long Night and claiming the dragons for themselves.
About Huzhor Amai, I think his name is a linguistic link from Azor Ahai to other legendary figures like Hyrkoon the Hero, Hugor of the Hill, and the Andal Hukko that slew those swan maidens. These are localized versions of the name of an ancient figure that all these different peoples want to claim descent from. Interestingly, the version that sounds closest to the Asshai’i Azor Ahai might actually be Uthor of the High Tower. It practically rhymes. Also Hugor’s wife having eyes like deep blue pools also sounds like Night’s Queen to me
1:28:30 you could call Jon the Winter Soldier 12:30 on the Five Forts, i believe it's stated that each could garrison thousands of warriors. I wonder if these fortresses were ever used for their intended defence role? I would just love to check them out with an archaelogy team
The Five Forts could hold 10,000 men each, allegedly. Of course, its 12,000 year old history, told by people who were as far away from it as humanly possible, so take it with a grain of salt.
Dont be sad ❤ happy to be part of this community and i have plently of others in my life. Most of my friends watch the shows just don't get into the books @@ThommyofThenn
Because of you the GEOD has become my Roman Empire. Everything is connected. The Targaryens/Valyrians have to be direct descendants from the Amethyst Empress
Ok, not sure if you have ever touched on it, you probably have, but the Kabba Stone of Islam is a black piece of meteor that is worshipped. It is really cool to watch all of the Muslim pilgrims circumnavigating the Kabba.
Commenting 8 seconds into a 3+ hr video to say thank you for saving my work night😭
No problem 😊 Happy to help
@@ryanwilliams9751 i know it's a Lightbringer video when I'm typing out a 3 paragraph essay before even getting ten minutes in 🤓😆
Facts!!
Gotta love it when lml drops a banger for a night shift
@@Cookie_chris I've done the 6pm to 6am in the past. Doing the whole nocturnal thing showed me a type loneliness I had no clue existed. I didn't watch this channel in those days but quality YT videos were like a dose of normality and engagement when everything felt so far off. It can be hard so I'm glad you have stuff like this
You can't rush perfection but you can edit it!
great empire of the dawn theories are the PEAK of ASOIAF, David is the reason I’m a House Dayne Fanboy
It literally HAS to be where it all comes together. I'm so ready for WoW
@@AttainTheGrain I think Great Enpire of the Dawn in the East and the Dawn Age in Westeros happened at the same time. Like LML talked about early in this stream, The Numenors (did I spell that right?) are the direct inspiration for Valyrian/GEOTD/Dayne but the Numenors were half elf. I know it in my plums that this is where the Children of the Forest come in but I cant quite piece it together. Im certain they taught humans the arts of dragon taming and riding. I just dont know when or why. We do know the people who taught the first humans to ride dragons were a people so old nobody remembers their name. When Bran asks Leaf for her real name, she says something like its too long for any human to remember. I think this is a direct referrence to the COTF and the people who taught humans to ride dragons are one and the same. Maybe the Pact was actually made by GEOTD and not First Men? GEOTD/Valyrians suddenly got dragons. What did the First Men get for this pact? Not dragons.
@williamhermann6635 something tells me the Children are very vaguely related to the dragons and not directly involved in their creation/coming (two totally different ideas).
I've been playing with the idea that maybe the whole soul stuffing idea isn't wrong , the gods of old Valyria may be real and / or ancestors of the current of Targs, and one of them might've defected in some way and hijacked the greensight network instead of going into a dragon's spirit (and is pulling strings as "R'hollor" and manipulating targs and others into world domination for valyria, over thousands of years).
That's one of the h3adcannons I've been working on recently. I love this series, lol.
@@AttainTheGrain I dont see why the COTF wouldnt be responsible for dragon taming. They can warg any other animal and seem to be in tune with all things nature. We even get a possible example of a COTF taming a dragon in the story. Nettles. Her description sounds like a COTF in disguise. And she tamed Sheepstealer. She definitely doesnt have Valyrian blood. Leaf says she walked among men for 200 years. That means Leaf was alive and walking amongst men during the time Nettles was alive. Theyre potentially the same character. COTF taught the First Men weirwood magic in Westeros, why couldnt they do the same with Bloodstone Emperor in the Far East? I think they taught Bloodstone Emperor to tame dragons who then went and founded Valyria. GRRM said Valyria was just coming into power around the time of the Long Night implying the GEOTD had already begun its migration seeing as BSE was the last Gemstone Emperor. Also, Valyria (and dragons) coming into power at this time could imply a correlation with the Long Night. Valyria and dragons could have convinced the COTF to then create The Others in response. Ice and fire.
^ This is Fascinating to think on
I love these stripped down lives with art added! They make evening rest time after work so relaxing! Thanks for doing this, Dave! Appreciate you!🐈🦎
It's fun seeing the chat again and even better after some processing time on LMLs end
Idk why "road crew dragons" makes me laugh. Like valerian tax payers complaining about why they bother paying their live stock tax to the roadcrew dragons when the roads have potholes.😂
@@Jacob-qz9folnn ion bc
@@ThommyofThenn😮😮😮4😮😮6😮
I love the idea that *Westeros* is the weird exotic place filled with magic that the people from the civilized Essos came to in order to explore the magic.
Haha ur funny
Can't watch this now, but I can comment on it. Let the algorithm pick this bad boy up!
For the algorithm!
Asshai and the the Great Empire simply have to be the same thing, because if they weren't there'd be lots of crazy myths about the two culture's interactions. Great chat btw.
It's also the only way to explain Asshai's city size.
@@VeteranVandal Yes. It really get's across the notion that modern planetos just can't conceive of an empire being that vast. It's beyond anyone now. And so they don't make the mental leap that this ancient super city is part of that ancient super empire.
I just got back from a work trip, showered and made my favorite meal. There is nothing I could have wanted to see more right now when opening youtube than an iceberg stream on the great empire of the dawn from LML. Thank you very much
Hope you didn't have a hard time travelling. I know it can be draining
Gotta say thank you for all your hard work and dedication I will always support you Ser David Lightbringer.
i listened to the whole 6 hr original & i fully intend to listen to this one too lmao
I’m relataively new to the the channel, but I’m glad to see the content it still ripe and fresh! I haven’t found a video I disliked! I am also glad that you have continued to show signs of improvement over all this time! Makes me hopeful for the future of your ASOIAF dissections in the future! Keep up your great works!!!
YESSSSSSSS- theoretically putting it all together is just what i needed🙌 new fan! Been really enjoying the catalogue of content! The empire of the dawn is particularly interesting!
I think this is as close as I've gotten to a live stream since HotD's last episode. I'm glad it's the Great Empire of the Dawn iceberg!
Aaahhhh shieeeettt. There goes the rest of my evening. FU lightbringer, every time I think I’m off the stuff here you come with another dose.
Did I watch the whole 6 hour original stream? Yes.
Am I going to watch this one anyway? Also yes 🖤
MY CORE AUDIENCE ❤️❤️
@@DavidLightbringer only for over 5 years!
@@DavidLightbringer we need a members area with the full streams, even better stick em on spotify for the myth head OG'S
If Casterly Rock was one of the First Men castle with Weirwood wards like Storm's End and the High Tower, then you could say that Lann the Clever did literally invade and usurp a part of the Weirwood Net
DAVE THIS IS THE ONE I WAS WAITING FOR
Commenting early in, but re-hearing that part where Dany sees the what might be the people of the Great Empire of the Dawn was interesting after all the theories we have now. They were looking at her, telling her to wake the dragon, and then SHE became the dragon. That goes along with the draqomorph theory well, I think! That it was them who made the dragons out of the Valyerions!
Wow when I first started this thing I was like “there’s no way it’s edited down like this AND it’s four hours long??” Great stream, this stuff is particularly suited to the iceberg format.
14:50 I always thought George did that thing with the storm breaking parts of Dragonstone as an intentional thing, as if the storm god and the drowned god did not want Dany to be born. He keeps coming back to her being Storm-born
He's referring to the classic mythical struggle between the dragon and the storm God that you see all over the world. Robert and Rhaegar fighting is another iteration of this idea
Iron born?
Thank you for loving Thrones the way you do and sharing that love with all of US HERE!
dude you are seriously a hero for these long form theory videos. can’t get enough of these
🫡🫡🫡
I'm glad the long form content seems to be catching on
it’s the best! stumbled upon your channel a couple weeks ago and i’ve been binging it like crazy, i really appreciate all the time and energy you’ve put into all this. had to take a mental hiatus from ASOIAF after GOT ended but i’m fully back and locked in now. makes me wanna reread the books with this refreshed perspective on all the more mysterious stuff in the series.
I hope that Yi Ti animated show will bring us some great empire of the dawn or at least blood stone emperor lore.
It won't be an adaptation of any existing story and will be animated, so it could even be considered canon to the books if George wants it to be.
GRRM probably didn't think this up beyond 'Valyria plus Yi-Ti plus Asshai in the Dawn Age'
0:01 david lightbringer starts talking
I just got The World of Ice and Fire. Beautiful book. I can't wait to read.
Fascinating!! I love anything and everything House Dayne and how it ties into the Great Empire of the Dawn. Thanks for this, David! 😊
All Dyanna Dayne and Maekar Targaryen sons were dreamers i wonder why they all got this magical ability which is so rare even to Targaryens
This is an amazing idea 💡!
Yayyy! So excited to have a new video to watch today! Thank you for all your content Dave. It’s always a joy to listen!
I love your streams and videos. I can't always watch them right away but I always revisit as soon as possible. Amazing work as always.
🎶right there waiting for you🎶
These icebergs are so perfect for work. Thank you!!
Been waiting so effing long for this!!! Been dying to hear some details about where it all began. Kudos to you my friend. Many thanks
YEEEEE. Your GEOTD theories are what drew me to your channel.
Fuck yeah. Honestly, my favorite bit of deep lore. This is the key to everything. I know we wont get every question i have about GEoTD answered, but i do hope we get some kind of astral messaging or trippy visuals that hint aggressively at it. Just like the kingly ghosts Dany sees in the Undying, i hope we see something that wont mean much to the casual reader, but will scream Dawn Empire to us Myth Heads
I promise you brother when i am back at work, because i was laid off recently, the plant i worked in had to cut labor but when i get back to work and my income is steady again i really really want to send you a donation for all your work. youve helped teach me so much about this world and I GENUINELY mean that i WANT to contribute to the continued success of your channel. you are great content creator, and lore contemplator, ive never heard you ask for a dime and if did i would still feel the same way because i know you are as genuine with your work as much i genuinely appreciate it.
Good work LML always workn hard on these edited lives
Dave the youtuber that was promised coming to save the work day once again
I had never really thought about it until you discussed how Blackfyre can be taken to mean Blood Stone, but now I find it very interesting that House Targaryen has both the swords Blackfyre and Dark Sister and the Bloodstone Emperor killed his Sister and rival to usurp her.
I also started thinking about the Blackfyre 1st Rebellion where Daemon who carries Blackfyre is killed by Blood Raven, Dark sisters carrier, using Weirwood arrows. So Daemon Blackfyre being killed is like Azor Ahai going into the weirwood net
I like the idea that dragons once roosted on Battle Isle. Does that mean it is volcanic in nature?
Because I have an idea that Leyton and Malora are hatching a dragon from an egg laid by Tessarion, maybe she had her lair in Battle Isle
I do love the art that you show, the molding and fusing of the stone makes my brain scream!!! Show me how!!
"So the god-emperors, were they greenseers? The term god-emperor is taken from Dune; and the god-emperors of Dune (actually just one) are called god-emperors because they are psychic (technically not), which are kinda like lizard-people, and they had long lives, but the main thing is that they're psychic." What makes Leto the Godemperor, aside from lineage and religion, is that he merges with the Sandtrouts to become a semi-immortal worm-like creature himself. That worminess is the most interesting parallel, I think.
After 3500 years there are basically no worms, trouts and plankton left on Arrakis - all consolidated into the Godemperor - and he is killed with a laser, which releases a bunch of new Sandtrouts from his body that now also carry his DNA (the wiki says that this enables the worms to be settled on other planets as well, though it is heavily implied that the Sandworm didn't originate on Arrakis either). This worminess at least hints at a link between the Godemperor from Dune and Dracomorph Theory, indeed paralleling the lizard people in ASOIAF (though the process is very different it seems).
The theme of cyclical consolidation / expansion of life is also core to the metaphysics of Elden Ring as well. Its also more or less outright stated that magic came from space, paralleling the extraterrestrial origin of dragons and possibly most/all magic on Planetos. The expansion and contraction of magic and dragon population is also paralleled in ASOIAF and seems to be more of an intentional choice in writing than a coincidence. The merging of bodies and DNA is also heavily featured in Elden Ring.
So IF we interpret the greenseer kings as a parallel to the Godemperor in Dune, that means that the dragons and the greenseers most likely have the same wormy origin.
And not only the greenseers. Unlike to Leto's transformation into the god-worm, the Navigators, who gain extreme levels of precognition by consuming great quantities of the spice melange, become "aquatic" in appearance and have to be shipped around in tanks. In Elden Ring, an aquatic appearance is associated with undeath (most prominently Godwyn the Golden turning into the merman-like Prince of Death), while in ASOIAF it hints at squisher involvement. How the spice melange forms might also matter. From the fandom wiki: "It was created in a process whereby the fungal excretions of sandtrout would mix with water to form a pre-spice mass. This mass would then be brought to the surface of the desert through an explosion of pressure, and under the intense heat and air of Arrakis, melange would form." Note that the Sandworm's larval form apparently shits fungi.
So IF we read these parallels very literally, we can hypothesize that Squishers came to be by consuming very large amounts of "processed" dracomorph shit regularly.
The fungal Weirwoods might be either solidified dracomorph shit or the result of dracomoph larvae merging with a species of plant or fungus, or they might be something else entirely - weirs to catch the draco-sandworm-morph trouts (are greenseers trouts???).
None of this is conclusive, of course, but it shows us where we can look for proof for these ideas: symbolic parallels in trouts and worms, as well as magic substances brought forth by pressure explosions and processed by exposure to heat/sunlight. So maybe we need to pay very close attention to the contents of Edmure's chamberpot, if he appears in WoW.
There is a big difference, though. The Xenomorph is strictly a parasite, it needs a host to reproduce. The Sandworm lifecycle is naturally self-contained and only external intervention leads to a merging of DNA.
I was going to 'like' this vid...But I literally Already Had! I love that I can rewatch these presentations and discover new layers within it, just like the book itself. Loving the edited Live + art loooooong format. Thank you kindly
I started going "silver" at 16 🤣... Now at 29 I have a head full. Thanks Dad 🤣.
Great video and thank you, as always, for the shout outs. I'm hoping to redo the gemstone emperors in the nearish future and when I do I'll send it over
These icebergs are soooo good to listen to when working.
I just remembered, there is another Elric story that supports the idea that ASOIAF Valyria mirrors Melnibone. In one of the stories, Elric goes to an island, which is kinda like Sothoryos, where he finds the original land of Melniboeneans, who lived in peace until chaos gods corrupted them and thought them to harness dragons. He also fights lizard people there, who are said to be descendants of these first Melniboneans.
I think I've read that one
@@DavidLightbringer I can't remember what the title was, unfortunately.
I always love your organization!! My brain works the same way and the visuals of the maps and such are soo helpful 👏🏽📚
17:48 David, again great video! I love that you tied Numenor here. They arrived at the island following Earendil whose body and whole ship was turned into a star. His son Elros would have brought Narsil from their home in Beleriand and became their first king. It only makes sense that down through ages the sword would have eventually come to Elros’s brother Elrond Half-Elven which makes all these individuals Aragorn’s, as much as Arwen’s, ancestors.
David remind ppl to like your videos. It helps the algorithm
Has anyone ever brought up the idea that the Valerian sorcerers used the souls of a sacrificed dragon to create Valerian Steel? It makes sense. No one has created a Valerian Steel sword since the doom, when there were probably enough Dragons to not worry about sacrificing a few, but the Targyreans clearly couldnt afford to lose a single one. George does say the knowledge to create Valerian Steel was lost with the doom of Valeria.
You have truly blessed us holy Garth
I still can't believe just how much GRRM STOLE from Memory, Sorrow and Thorn
Excellent video as always. So much to ponder.
Thinking about the apparent post-cataclysm exodus from GEotD (moving across Essos, to the Reach, Starfall, the Iron Islands etc) I'm struck by the echoes we see in the Roynar, but just in the other direction. Leaving home, travelling far, people get left behind as they go, spreading out and affecting the culture where they end up, some die, some thrive, etc etc.
Good morning to meeeeee 😁 thanks David! Excited to watch
ah yes, my favorite stream edited down. (ive watched the original a few times already, lets go!)
Perfect start to a 4 day weekend/sleep-in ☺️
Relating the Daynes to the faithful Númenóreans makes me think of the kings men that stayed under saurons influence to eventually die in the sinking of numenor(they also practiced human sacrifice, as the valyrians did). The valyrians began their colony where slavery, blood magic, industry and greed were their priorities, leading to the doom. The Daynes fled to westeros long before that with dawn, not succumbing to the dark path the valyrians eventually did. Seeing the parallels between the two groups makes me wonder if there's more george was inspired by from that story that can help explain what happened to cause the doom, the dragonlords origins etc
id guess so, he seems to really like some of the core Silmarillion stuff
That Ashara artwork is my favorite. She's so beautiful, and they really nailed the "laughing violet eyes"
Omg hell yeah I needed this today buddy
Ever notice how Dorne sounds a lot like the way GRRM pronounces "Dawn"?
Perfect timing, David! Looking forward to having this on tonight.
another great video LML!
Another great video! I always look forward to the ice berg deep dives.
YOOOOOO WHAT!!!!!
Also David I hope one day you’ll be doing breakdowns and theory’s of my book series. I’m taking MANY notes and inspirations, because even if one or a few of your theory’s about ASOIAF are true many won’t be, but are still amazing and mind boggling! My series has dinosaurs as a large part of the world, but also “magic” thank you!
Thanks!
Thought: What if Asshai was the capitol before succumbing to its own variation of doom in the shadow and taint that now defines that peninsula. The Amethyst bloodline fled the moon meteor drama and founded Valyria much like the Targs later used their trade outpost as a jumping off point to conquer westeros.
Or is this what you're building to? I have to get ready for work, I won't be able to finish this video before the weekend. 😢
Woohoo! Can't wait, it's the david cut! Lol
Excited to listen to this while debugging - whether it's my code or my flower pots or unfortunately my apartment! 0:01
But I could have sworn you already did this video?
You are So Good at this ❤
If Qarth as a civilization is a bit of a prototype or farcical imitation of the Great Empire of the Dawn, then their "Pureborn" rulers, sitting on "wooden thrones of their ancestors" and "dreaming" could be rather than meaning they themselves represent Grreenseer kings, but implying they are an imitation of the true Greenseer kings of the GotD
i tend to agree yeah, and have been thinking about this lately
Thanks for another great stream! Excited to get lost in the ASOIAF Lore!
It's so much fun to do!
the disputed land did a really good video recently. the theory is valyrians were slaved crossed with dragons by blood magic, but it was an attempt to create more docile controllable dragons or to create other magical creatures like manticores and harpys, and the dragon bond was a sort of unintended byproduct. which is why a civilization of shepards went from being slaves to conquering and becoming the most powerful civilizations.
my cats are named Amethyst & Opal & they were very tuned into this stream 😂😂 love your videos!
hahahahaha
1:03:25 basically the start of the Age of Strife. It's also grimdark but on the more "fantasy" end than "sci-fi"
Regardless of if you're on a distant planet, or a remote colony far from your homeland, the idea of suddenly being (probably permanently ) cut off from all facets of familiarity and realising you're now totally isolated is horrific to me.
It's fun to see common themes across genres and I would argue that both are at their best when used to examine deeper, longer held themes like loneliness, love and the need most have for a connection to a homeland
Well it’s been like a week since I saw the unedited version time for a rewatch I guess😂 Amethyst empress here I come😂
I did add more art to enjoy!!
I had a good time here.
Mind shattered like only an oily blood moon magick meteor can. Great stuff David write your own universe please.
Praise Garth!
I daydream about Bjork playing Euron. Loving the iceberg, by the way.
Been waiting for this one since you announced it praise Garth
Such great theroies in this video. Its awesome to see them all put together.
a very comprehensive overview of these theories, thank you! Just a tiny correction; tigers don't have slit pupils, they're round, more like yours than that of a house cat, so they're not "cat eyed" despite actually being cats , vertical pupils is more a characteristic of small cats (and otr small, nocturnal or otherwise low to the ground predators) , not large ones, so that particular anatomical detail shouldn't be a link between Leng and CotF. And loved the about face re Lemurs ^^ yeah I think they were named by Linnaeus himself in the 18ct, so by a swede, not a brit, but otherwise spot on.
The “GMO Valyrians” comment actually sent me, I cackled so hard 🤣
Yes David mate. Great vid! Your the goat at symbolism brother. Thank you.
1:09:58 It's a shame we don't actually have a full world map, or know how much of the world the map we do have covers. A meteoroid breaking up like that would leave its debris along a great circle, and that circle could be traced.
Ladies and gentlemen... David "We'll get to that.." Lightbringer..
*Claps ferociously*
🤣🤣🤣
@@DavidLightbringer
Maybe they put some fire worms inside people and bind them with magic to make the valyrians, like in Children of Dune, Leto II Atraides does that but with baby sand worms and a LOT of spice, and thats how he becomes a sandworm god 🤔 he and the worms became one
I think a willing sacrifice will create a white sword (like dawn)and an unwilling one creates the black swords (valryian steel)
I’m READY
🏹🏹🏹🏹🏹 BAM we in here, shooting back at them Scorpion bolts. GET IN EARLY, FOLKS!
Oh, and make sure to watch it twice, especially if you're watching on double speed, or 1.5. YT only logs your actual watch time, not how much of the video you watch. If like me, you're watching on 2x speed, you're only gonna log just under 2 hours of watch time. So, twice!
I think the Valyrians were the original Dragon Keepers. They were used by Empire of the Dawn people who would send dragons from the Shadow to Valyria to be kept by Valyrians. With how volcanic Valyria is it's a great place to keep dragons in their down time. The shepherds myth comes from the simple fact that sheep are a great food source for dragons so a big part of their role would be to keep lots of sheep to feed to the dragons. Interbreeding between Empire of the Dawn people and Valyrians probably lead to them being able to control/ride them, either that or blood magic rituals performed on them. The Storming of the Dragon Pit is possibly a parallel of the "Shepherd" Valyrians fighting off the weakened remaining Empire people after the Long Night and claiming the dragons for themselves.
About Huzhor Amai, I think his name is a linguistic link from Azor Ahai to other legendary figures like Hyrkoon the Hero, Hugor of the Hill, and the Andal Hukko that slew those swan maidens. These are localized versions of the name of an ancient figure that all these different peoples want to claim descent from. Interestingly, the version that sounds closest to the Asshai’i Azor Ahai might actually be Uthor of the High Tower. It practically rhymes.
Also Hugor’s wife having eyes like deep blue pools also sounds like Night’s Queen to me
1:28:30 you could call Jon the Winter Soldier
12:30 on the Five Forts, i believe it's stated that each could garrison thousands of warriors. I wonder if these fortresses were ever used for their intended defence role? I would just love to check them out with an archaelogy team
The Five Forts could hold 10,000 men each, allegedly. Of course, its 12,000 year old history, told by people who were as far away from it as humanly possible, so take it with a grain of salt.
@@nicholasszabo5954 I was thinking 10K also but didn't have time to look it up. Thanks for finding the quote!
Something worth watching
Ohhh yesss thus is what I needed Friday morning 🎉
Thursday afternoon for me 😊 I love that mythheads all over can learn from this
Its the best to be able to connect with fellow mythheads! I dont know anyone in real life that's into ASOIAF
.@ThommyofThenn
@@Liizardqueen90 :(
Dont be sad ❤ happy to be part of this community and i have plently of others in my life. Most of my friends watch the shows just don't get into the books @@ThommyofThenn
@@ThommyofThenn don't be sad 🙂 have plenty of people in my life they just like the shows and not the books 😅
This video saved my life...😢
we all love the Great Empire of the Dawn ❤️
Because of you the GEOD has become my Roman Empire. Everything is connected. The Targaryens/Valyrians have to be direct descendants from the Amethyst Empress
What’s GEOD??
@@Raufi1917great empire of the dawn
@@Raufi1917 Great Empire Of The Dawn
I think George could easily just say that the ripping of a gargoyle from dragonstone was simply an embellishment.
Ok, not sure if you have ever touched on it, you probably have, but the Kabba Stone of Islam is a black piece of meteor that is worshipped. It is really cool to watch all of the Muslim pilgrims circumnavigating the Kabba.
NEW ICEBERG YAAAAA
Essential viewing