The Reverend Boyd seems like a spirit filled Christian. I enjoy his passion, I enjoy watching him get excited about Jesus and I confess I am envious ( I know its a sin) of how excited and alive he feels in Christ. However ; this is one issue I could not walk away from. First let me say, my name is Greg and I was an alduterer and a fornicator. I am neither proud of what I was nor do I run away from it. I've never shared my story with anyone but it truly is a story of God's redeeming grace and how he never leaves you and never stops calling for you, even when you have completely forgotten about him. My problem with this video has a few points i would like to make. As I watched I noticed Rev Boyd put his head down and ever so slightly half speak and gloss over the church's position on gay marriage ( which I agree with) then lift his head and proceed to boldly and loudly proclaim that all sin was wrong and his church just wanted to love everyone .On the surface who can argue with that message but I have to. I said I was a sinner earlier because even then I knew what I was doing was wrong, I never tried to excuse it or looked for acceptance for it. Thankfully God rescued me from that lifestyle. My second issue is this, what does this church plan to do with the homosexuals it lovingly plans to attract because here is my experience. They are not looking for your love, they want your acceptance of their lifestyle. Far too many homosexuals do not accept that what they do is sin and anything you tell them will never register unless you first tell them that it is ok to do what they do. I saw Rev Boyd say it is a sin, but is he willing to tell them that. Is this church willing to draw a line in the sand and say, we love you, we welcome you, but we assume you are here from heart felt repentance and we want to help you leave that life behind you. Anything less than that and you are not truly loving them, you are enabling them.
Fantastically put! Couldn't agree more! "Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them; for it is disgraceful even to speak of the things which are done by them in secret. But all things become visible when they are exposed by the light, for everything that becomes visible is light." (Ephesians 5:11-13) And when you do that, they (homosexual practitioners) will invariably get defensive and leave the church or if they ARE truly convicted, will repent and remain in the church and will try to work out their salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12).
Jeremian Lastly I was particularly offended by your comment. You may not agree with what has been written, but to say that kind of stuff about my (our) God, especially when it is designed to anger me (us), is not only uncalled for because it is blasphemous in nature for us, and it certainly will not win us over to try to empathise with you. It invariably will have the opposite effect. It is that kind of language which perpetuates an escalation of retaliatory vehemence and abusive language. I will not hold that against you, because I understand that you are merely reacting to an unwarranted feeling of rejection. We do not reject you or hate you. It is actually the opposite. We want the best for you. The problem is that you do not see the world as we do. medium.com/@robertoberuffi/the-culture-war-2cbf83fb7b1#.hbfebbgvv
I agree, Greg. I don't see in the Bible that it is a sin to judge. I only see that Jesus warned, judge not lest you be judged. Judgment must begin within the house of God. Look at the Bible, OT and NT, and you will see that godly men pointed out the sins of their neighbors, in order to try to get them to face their sin and forsake it. James said that whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way saves a soul from death. That is loving your neighbor. Help them to forsake their sin, even if they persecute you for it.
unsafegreg I find it very interesting that I watched a video from this very same preacher last night on how Romans 10 salvation will not save. He stated that it preaches a head knowledge of Jesus and does not require a heart change. I believe the example he gives is that it is akin to a legal contract where I say this and believe in my head (which is grossly misunderstood by him) and I have a free ticket to do whatever I want. He said without works (fruit) and a turning away from those sinful pursuits that it basically was not true salvation. So I find it funny that now he is saying the exact opposite when it comes to the subject of homosexuality. Now it's OK because God may be working on something else in their life rather than what the Bible calls an abomination. You're serving two masters and are lukewarm and will be spit out.
All I know is I got sick of projecting hate. I want to draw to people TO Christ; not repel them away. Then, I'll let God convict people of their sins whatever they may be, and stay out of his way.
One of the way he convicts people of sin is through the body (church). You're just taking the easy path because you personally feel uncomfortable with confrontation. There are ways to confront without "projecting hate" (this is a vague /meaningless term unless you're using a projector)
great spirit in this man of love and none condemning for who is to condemn it is Christ that died we should help others and trust in Jesus remember Our Lord died on the cross we didn't.
I attended Woodland Hills met my wife there 8 years ago. I also went on 2 Mission trips with attendees and others while there. I like Greg and his ministry. I have never been under someones teaching who can both enlighten adn infuriate me simultananeously to the degree Greg can. I know he is genius level and i respect his diligence.
Like I said Greg is smarter than me by a country mile...but it just seems he is validating their identity as being "Gay". I know he wants to be sensitive to people who struggle with various sins but at some point you do have to call it sin and as such not something to be proud of as in an identity...rather than something to be dealt with like any other sin.
@@alexanderfloyd5099 Jesus talked about the distinctual nature of the creation of the sexes and how they were female was made for the male to be joined together If people want to."pervert" ie twist God's intention for the sexes... this perversion stems from Satsnic influence to twist and rebel against God's design. The desire if Satan is to get God's crestion- humanity Made in Gods image ...to do the EXACT OPPOSITE of what God intended. Satan howls with laughter when mankind rebelelliously degrades their minds and bodies.
@@TIMtalksLIVE 1. Congratulations. Even if being gay is a sin, you still managed to completely miss the point of the video. You seem to be presenting yourself as the exact kind of person that he was speaking to, and you missed it. That's very impressive. 2. About the whole "gay is a sin" thing, well, maybe not. There's a legitimate case to be made that it's not inherently a sin according to Scripture. As with straight sex, it can be misused. 3. Jesus brought up the creation account in reference to a question about marriage. There was no such thing as gay marriage in that society. At that time, marriage was a legal contract between a man and his property, and often very young property at that. Do you really think Jesus endorsed that too, or did He just address the society that He was in?
It's funny how many people in the comments are claiming heresy and completely making his point about christians ranting and raving about one kind of sin and ignoring ones that are far more damaging to the world & that are accepted quite readily in the church itself.
No sin is more damaging to society than allowing a man to marry a man or a woman to marry a woman. That would totally destroy everyone on earth is two generations! And real Christians do not accept ANY sins readily but stand up against ALL sin, especially their own. So unless you are willing to stand up and be a REAL Christian yourself and fight against sin,especially your own, then you have absolutely no legitimate say so in the matter!
Regen Ducere So you're saying two people expressing their love for each other is a greater sin than the greed that forces vast swathes of humanity to live in poverty, or the hatred that drives people to murder others simply because they don't agree with their race or religion? Way to miss the point.
As a woman who was gay for 30 of her 53 years, this man is lying to you. He is DANGEROUS! The church is for believers, not sinners! We are to go out and make disciples, not bring them in to leaven the whole batch with sin! I cannot allow my ears to be tickled with this nonsense. Jesus died for my sins, and He, as my Savior, has given me a new heart and spirit. My spirit wants NOTHING to do with sin, of ANY kind. Do I make mistakes, of course, but I do not consciously disobey!!!!! So when I hear people like this, who is a wolf in sheep's clothing, I shudder at how many he has misled. Tell me where in the Bible it mentions major or minor sins? The Bible doesn't say major and minor...that is man trying to justify sin. That is this man playing word games with you, because the god he serves likes to play these deceitful games. Ask Eve about the game he played with her! Born Again is not living in your sin. He has no idea what leads to a reprobate mind, because he he is lost, leading the lost, to the edge of a cliff. Romans 1:26-32 EXPRESSLY STATES HOMOSEXUALITY IS THE SIN THAT CAUSES A REPROBATE MIND. In other words, the sin that leads to other sins such as murder! Please, wake up!!!! Find a Bible believer pastor like Charles Lawson or Robert Breaker and submit fully to the will of God! 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
I agree that as believers there is NO need for us to go out of our way to point out the sins of the world (esp. non-believers), however if and when we get asked by the world about their sinful lifestyle, then we need to with both conviction and humility point out what the Scripture says on this subject while speaking of the solution for ALL our sin and brokenness which is the cross of Jesus! There is definitely a difference between going out of our way to tell others about their sin and being asked and sharing the truth in love while NEVER, EVER leaving out the hope that Christ offers.
The point he begins to make at 4:10 "Why does the church make Homosexuality a greater sin than others in the bible that are mentioned more?" Answer: The other sins, in general, do not have public, powerful, wealthy groups decrying that they are not sins and it is "normal". Would the church or Christians push back any less if groups tried to say that theft or sex outside of marriage was not a sin and normal? I don't think so.
Why do you think those groups are coming out to challenge the Church? Maybe because the Church started it with its historic horrible treatment of homosexual people. We have to change that narrative of hate for certain sinners while ignoring others.
The Bible mentions homosexuality a total of 5 times. It mentions Greed and poverty a total of 2-3000 times. To quote Rev William Barber it's amazing to me how Christians spend so much energy on what the Bible says so little of and so little energy on what the Bible says so much about. Furthermore Jesus says "I have not come to all respectable people but the outcast" and said to the teachers of the law "Go learn what it means I demand mercy and not sacrifice"(Matthew 9:13). Many people in the Church show such little mercy and only malice, hatred, vitriol and vindictiveness to those in the gay community.
JANHOI MCCALLUM Not true. Christians don't hate the gay community. There is a difference between hating someone and saying that their lifestyle is immoral.
Melchizedek was mentioned about two times in all of the old testament. The significance of the role the order of Melchizedek plays in the latter stages of Scriptures the Jewish people miss til this day. Big sin little sin, sin is sin.
Janhoi Mc Callum. At the point that there is an organized group of Christians campaigning to call one of the other sins not only normal but God ordained, then that will become focal as well. This is not a battle over which sin is greatest, but rather a battle for the integrity of the Bible. Trying to side step this and normalize it by saying there are other sins that happen too simply reeks of compromise and appeasement.
Interesting, Janhoi, there have been several credible responses and no rebuttal from you. You quote Matthew 9:13. Interesting that you ignore Jesus' teachings on righteousness and what the standards of marriage are. You seem a bit selective in your focus. Why is that?
I was at this service. I was skeptical then. As time passed, I am less so. But my only fear then has absolutely come to fruition. The gay lifestyle and marriage are not something that concerns me at my core. What I feared was what it would usher in, what follows it through the door. Today, 10 years after, our society is permitting children to mutilate their bodies and poison themselves because they "feel" they are the wrong gender! These are children - people who are not mature adults - and they are cutting off their breasts or their genitals and the adults are letting them, in fact are performing the surgeries. These adults are acting self-righteous as if this naturally should be affirmed, while they take the money to the bank. It is sick, deluded and evil. That my friends is what I feared back then. If you are offended by what I said well then God Bless You - you need to study your own heart and remember that these are immature children, unable to make such profound decisions. You are the adult.
Why did he only quote 1/2 of verse 13 in 1 Corinthians 5:12-13? Oh I see, because the first half says that God will judge those outside the church and his point is that we should not judge anyone. Ok... but what about the rest of 13 which says "Put away from you (the church) the evil person"? He left that out because it goes against his anything is ok Christianity racket. This is the same exact thing Satan does when he uses scripture to make his "point".
So, as a sinner yourself, are you not evil? If so, shouldn't we, as the Church, "put away" you? The approach you seem to be taking is one that says Christians should not love sinners. I'm sure you don't believe that, so what exactly do you think his message said that doesn't align with the last half of vs 13?
I agree only some parts like having patience, love, and respect for the LGBT people, as a Christian we are called to respect and love everyone regardless who they are and if they deserve it, for the simple reason that every human was made in the image of God. You all have a precious value in Gods eyes. What I don't agree is that he tries to justify homosexuality marriage amendment by saying that we shouldn't have a care about what politically goes around. The Bible is filled with political dilemmas but Christians stay faithful and true to what they believe and won't give in. Every person is different but don't try to justify any sin only cause you have a specific group of sinners going to your church. I'm sure he ment it in a good way maybe he was even upset but don't make it sound like us Christians don't have a duty to do. We are told time and time again in the Bible to judge righteously, know them by their fruit, discernment of spirits... etc. But never by sight alone. Their sin is out in the air everyone can see it even children. Every sin is the same in Gods eyes cause it separates us from him, but when you know the truth don't try to stop it from spreading or Jesus death and resurrection would have been in vain as apostle Paul says. God bless, I pray for the people of the LGBT group for them to come into repentance. I love you guys, I am straight and I had my struggles coming to Jesus's feet and accepting the truth, but I am here and all that is left to say is that I hope I make it all the way to the end. Don't give up, let the Lord Jesus into your hearts whoever you are wherever you are, he will change you from the inside out ❤
Revisited this sermon, I agreed with this sermon back then, but a few thoughts emerged as time goes by, Dear Dr Greg, looking at the world today be it LGBTQ or Islam or Atheism or One world religion, understand that, those people professing those ideas aren't just harmlessly keeping it to themselves, in fact, they are slowly forcing their ideas upon everybody, look at the trend of what are taught in mainstream schools, gender fluidity, Islam being the cradle of civilizations technologies (upfront lie), syariah education, distorted history about palestine, evolution with antitheistic agenda ..etc. I get your point of being all accepting, all inclusive, and non condemning attitude towards unbelievers, but at the same time God did call us to strive to be holy (with the help of holy spirit of course), just like how God called Israel to be a Holy nation, there should be a line of separation when circumstances arise, what is the definition of Holiness again? Luke 8:16 - No one light a lamp and hides it in a jar or under a bed, instead they put it on a stand, so that those who come in can see the light. I know we are not perfect, I am not perfect, we are in no position to judge other people of their sin, but there is a huge difference between being judgmental and being vocal and stand up for the virtues of God and His kingdom, that is how light shines. Just my thought, being silent and ambigous in clear cut issues will be perceived by people as condoning. Why did people kill Jesus, apostles and countless saints throughout the ages if they are so meek? it is because they at the same time oppose openly the agendas being forced upon the believers. We should love gays but speak out against homosexualism, we should love muslims but vocally oppose Islam, we should befriend antitheist and exchange views but we have to insist God created the world, don't condemn pregnant teens but at the same time we need to stop them from terminating their pregnancy willfully. In another words I now support the lady who wrote the strong worded letters to you, perhaps she didnt phrase it the way I do, but I believe what I think now is what she mean. Sorry sir, I am truly sorry that I cannot agree with this sermon no more.
Listen to the last of this sermon. Do not fear. Jesus is greater. Christianity, true Biblical Christianity, is growing like never before (despite how it looks in the media).
There is a good amount of truth here; however, Boyd ignores several verses that deal with sinning believers: "If anyone does not obey our instruction in this letter, take special note of that person and do not associate with him, so that he will be put to shame." 2 Thes.3:14 "Those who continue in sin, rebuke in the presence of all, so that the rest also will be fearful of sinning." 1 Tim. 5:20 "Brethren, even if anyone is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; each one looking to yourself, so that you too will not be tempted." Galatians 6:1 "Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him." Luke 17:3 “If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector." Matthew 18:15-17 It seems like the post-modern church (much like the post-modern world it resides in) likes to take the easy way out, either wantonly castigating "sinners" or engaging in the cult of "do not judge!" Perhaps the church should teach people not only how to repent of their own sins, but how to help lead others to repentance (in humility and gentleness). The great problem with this is that it takes time to teach it, and it takes time to engage in the process, and we find ourselves in a time and place where shortcuts in all things are preferred.
Just because there are sins in the Bible that are given less attention doesn't mean they are any less important. Not recognizing sin for what it is is a societal mistake. So to say we ignore some sins so that makes this sin right is dangerous territory. Eventually we won't think anything is a sin anymore and humanity will fail.
Jesus attracted sinners BUT those people DIDN'T CONTINUE to live a sinful life after meeting Him. I don't see sinners in the Bible that continued a sinful life and at the same time staying in Jesus' presence. As people didn't like the Light 💡 when it came in the world because they didn't want their sinful deeds to be seen. The only people that stayed with deep love in the presence of Jesus [ the 💡 of the World ] were sinners that repented of their sins and stopped doing them. If a sinner feels good in a church while leading a sinful life and if that persons feels comfortable with their sin, then that church "misses Gods target". As it's being said in Psalm 1, that sinners shall not stand in the congregation of the righteous.
Benjamin Ros what about the prostitutes and thieves that he hung out with,, they're described as prostitutes and thieves not ex- prostitutes and thieves
Angel Lewis well you still have to acknowledge your sins and turn away from them. Jesus walked with sinners. But to save them from the grips of sin [I came to call sinners to repentance] and in no way to encourage the sin.
Benjamin Ros quite right. which seems to be exactly what Boyd is advocating here. love is first. not judging or dwelling on the sins of others is a fundamental part of that.
There is a mistake here in Boyd's equivocation with accusation and condemnation. Jesus and His apostles make judgments and call others to make right judgments within the church. However, we are not called to condemn. Knowing the difference between the two is the answer to healthy ministry.
We are blessed to have Pastor Boyd deliver this passionate, compassionate message! Thank you Pastor Boyd for reminding us how far many have strayed from the example set by Jesus Christ.
As a woman who was gay for 30 of her 53 years, this man is lying to you. He is DANGEROUS! The church is for believers, not sinners! We are to go out and make disciples, not bring them in to leaven the whole batch with sin! I cannot allow my ears to be tickled with this nonsense. Jesus died for my sins, and He, as my Savior, has given me a new heart and spirit. My spirit wants NOTHING to do with sin, of ANY kind. Do I make mistakes, of course, but I do not consciously disobey!!!!! So when I hear people like this, who is a wolf in sheep's clothing, I shudder at how many he has misled. Tell me where in the Bible it mentions major or minor sins? The Bible doesn't say major and minor...that is man trying to justify sin. That is this man playing word games with you, because the god he serves likes to play these deceitful games. Ask Eve about the game he played with her! Born Again is not living in your sin. He has no idea what leads to a reprobate mind, because he he is lost, leading the lost, to the edge of a cliff. Romans 1:26-32 EXPRESSLY STATES HOMOSEXUALITY IS THE SIN THAT CAUSES A REPROBATE MIND. In other words, the sin that leads to other sins such as murder! Please, wake up!!!! Find a Bible believer pastor like Charles Lawson or Robert Breaker and submit fully to the will of God! 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
"Having this humble attitude always attracts sinners of all sorts." -- That's almost true. The only sinners that kind of "humble" attitudes doesn't attracts are those who are truly saved by God, those who love being corrected, reproved, and even disciplined by God, those who love the truth and hate the sin, and those who are in this world but don't appeal to this world and don't mix with this world and don't belong to this world. These people, sir, you can never attract with your false teaching and fake humble attitude. Stop that, and start repenting.
+haiyingz Wow...have you even checked out Dr. Boyd before disparaging him? How do you know is humility is fake? Bearing false witness is something that I don't believe is congruent with following Jesus.
Kevin Thomas Do you understand this: Humility towards men but not to God's Word (and therefore to God) is the greatest arrogance? I wish you did, but apparently you don't.
"those who are truly saved by God, those who love being corrected, reproved, and even disciplined by God, those who love the truth and hate the sin, and those who are in this world but don't appeal to this world and don't mix with this world and don't belong to this world" Those who meet that definition are the 99 sheep the shepard left in search of the lost one. Those are the healthy that the doctor didn't come for. Those are not the ones who surrounded Jesus. Or do you think anyone who would meet those standarts BEFORE meeting Jesus would still have been a prostitute or tax collector? All it took for people to be welcomed by Jesus with open arms was one simple thing: The recognition that they needed redemtion. That is ALL you need to come. And it is those that feel that need that you want to attract, regardless of what state they are in, regardless of how lost they are, regardless of how deep they are entangled in sin. THOSE are the lost sheep, those are the sick, those are the sinners Jesus came to call.
That is ALL you need to come? Then why in James does it say Faith without works is dead....... Dead meaning you have (dead faith) Jesus said if you are not born again you will not see the kingdom of God. You need more than just a recognition of redemption. Regeneration = Justification = Sanctification
+Daniel Gilbert Works are the result of salvation, not it's cause. What I was talking about what it takes to come to Jesus. Not about what it takes to follow him. As someone once put it, "Salvation costs nothing, discipleship costs everything". But it is impossible to be a disciple if you didn't recieve salvation first. And there is no condition to recieve salvation other than the recognition that you need it. Your deeds will verify wether you truly recieved salvation or not (which is how I understand the passage in James that you reference), but they are not the condition. Just look at the man who was crucified next to Jesus; He was given entry to paradise on one thing alone: He begged Jesus to remember him once he ruled in heaven. He had no deeds to show for, he was a criminal, deservant of death by his own admission. Yet his faith was real nontheless. So James can't be talking about what it takes to recieve salvation, but about what defines living faith after recieving salvation. We are talking about those that aren't christians yet in this context, not about those who claim they are and are living in sin (that's a different topic). And for those that don't know Jesus yet (the group that a church should want to attract, since we are supposed to be the light of the world), recognition of the need for redemption is all it takes.
Perhaps I missed this but how do you square your teaching from "Twisted Scripture" dealing with women not teaching or having authority over women when you pointed to Galatians and said our primary identity is no longer based on our gender or social status but that the passage says our new identity is solely in Christ? You said there is neither male nor female as concerning gender distinction. Isn't it using this same argument you make for scripture not meaning to bar women from being in authority over men because it was specific to the Ephesian culture and the overarching principle is oneness in Christ that Matthew Vines uses in "God and the Gay Christian?" Why is there no gender distinction when it comes to women as elders but there now is when it comes to same sex marriage?
If Greg Boyd is reading this: when you say that Jesus wouldn't make the sins of the tax collector illegal, are you implying that financial fraud should be legal (since that was what the tax collectors did)? I would be curious on your logic for this, whether you say yes or no.
God hate sin,let us lean and try to all live a righteous life.psalm 24 vs 3 says who can,ascend into the hill of the lord,he DAT has a clean hand and a pure heart.
I am so confused by this message. He sounds like he is for homosexuality and against gay marriage amendment and then he votes and then said you can't judge???? when you vote you just cast your judgement. This guy is so confusing to me.
"Doesn't physis teach you that if a man has long hair it is shameful [atimia]?" -- 1 Corinthians 11:14. Paul uses the EXACT same Greek phraseology for same-sex (or at least male-male) intercourse in Romans 1:26-27* Boyd knows this, but he never mentions it. Yes, there are other passages that could be discussed, but for now I'm just focusing on the Romans passage because I find Paul's issue with long haired men to be fascinating. (* which is arguably about cultic sex rituals anyway... rituals involving male-male sex, which is para physis and atimia).
Jesus said, "Go and sin no more" when He was led to by Father God. He did not tell everyone to repent all the time. He only did what He saw the Father doing. Eventually, people will come to the point where they are willing to do God's will, if they are saved. For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure. He may use us to confront sin, like Nathan, but let's be led by the Holy Spirit and be HUMBLE when confronting sin in a believer - not self righteous.
Solomon, do you believe the Bible to be inspired of God? I just need to know where you are coming from. Either way, I still think that confrontation of another brother or sisters sin needs to be done in humility and gentleness - not in self righteousness or thinking you are better than that person.
Sarah Vogel My convictions on the inspiration of the Bible are irrelevant. If we are to trust the words, they must be trustworthy. Words that do not appear in the oldest manuscripts are not AS trustworthy.
Solomon Parker Yet, they reflect God's character perfectly in this case, I believe. Jesus does tell the woman caught in adultery to sin no more. Yet, he does this only after she is sure of his love for her. Jesus stands against those who wish to condemn her and execute her, which according to the law is what she deserves. Yet, Jesus is merciful and does not condemn her. Jesus does not condemn her sin! That is the gospel if ever I heard it. After saving her life, Jesus sanctifies her, not before. True, that your convictions of the inspiration of the Bible are irrelevant, but that is not to say that whether the Bible is or is not the inspired word of God is irrelevant. It is relevant.
suckyskiz I would tend to agree, but my faith is in Jesus, not the nature of the inspiration of scripture. So I'm not going to bank my theology on verses that may have been added later. That comes from a modern western post-enlightenment mindset the writers of the Bible certainly had no knowledge of.
So sin is greater than any other. All sin is sin. Jesus says if we love him we will keep his commandments. That means All sin must stop. When we become New in Christ we go and sin no more. We Repent, we confess our sins to G-d and go and sin no more. Yes we will stumble and fall, but being Christians Jesus will catch us and set us back on the right path. So even the homosexual can come to Jesus, repent and be saved. But they can't continue in a homosexual relationship. If they can't become attracted to the opposite sex, then they should abstain from Sex altogether. In Scripture, "Take up thy Cross and Follow me." --- Whatever your Cross to carry, Carry it with prayer for help daily and Sin No More. Do not judge those that stumble. We as Christians are suppose to help each other in our struggles to let go of sinful ways.
That was one of the Best Sermons Greg Boyd has ever given! He nailed those truths to The Cross Baby!!! "Homophobic verse clustering" is a childish and satanic strategy designed to exclude some from the Love and Grace of our Lord. 3-5% of any population at any time in history, has always been "Gay". It's part of the diversity of Homo sapiens. Voting "for" or "against" such things is a total waste of time in The Kingdom. Leave Gay people alone and get on with serving Jesus and doing his will!
"What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. 'Expel the wicked person from among you.'" 1 Corinthians5:12-13. He did not quote the full verse. There are judgments that are to be made. God give us the grace and courage to do them well.
The pastor's (shepherd) responsibility is to preach the full council of the word of God, under the annointing of the Holy Spirit and to protect the sheep from the wolves.
This guy made a lot of good points. I agree that many Christians elevate the sin of homosexuality above other sins that they then let slide. Abortion and adultery are two good examples. For we see pastors supporting divorce and remarriage, which is adultery according to Jesus. I see a problem though in down playing the fact that homosexuality is called an abomination in scripture. He also tries to give the impression that Jesus repeatedly went back to and spent time with great sinners. But this is not the case. For we are never told that Jesus went back to and spent time with people who refused to change after he gave them his original message. So while it is true that Jesus spent time with sinners, it was so that they could hear a message that they would never hear from the Pharisees. But there is not a single verse that says Jesus went back to them or let them join his ministry if they did not repent and turn from their wicked ways. He also ignores the passages that say we are to judge righteously and to kick people out of the church if they continue to live in sin. Jesus attracted sinners who repented and changed their ways. Did Levi remain a tax collector? so let me make this perfectly clear. Corrupt tax collectors and prostitutes who wanted to remain as such and who wanted to continue sinning did NOT "hang out" with Jesus. It's true that Jesus met them and invited them to walk the narrow and difficult path that leads to the kingdom of God. But he did NOT "hang out" with them if they chose not to repent and change their ways for the same reason that he did not hang out with Pharisees who refused to repent. Bragging about the number of unrepentant gays in his church is not a good sign.
TrustinJC I see what you're saying. Years ago I would have said the same and thought I was being reasonable. But for me, if I still thought this way, I know I wouldn't be loving. I'd just be intellectually right in my mind. That said, and I mean no disrespect, I think Greg's point is more about judging against homosexuality and homosexuals while the church is full of sinful people who have "christianized" their sin. Gluttony? Pride? We have unrepentant Gays in my church. Neither our pastor nor Greg Boyd tell them it's just cool, or okay. But we treat them with love hoping they will see the light. And while, yes, we can kick people out of the church, Paul also said just after, that we can forgive them also. It's not a command. And doesn't love "keep no record of wrong"? Today's culture is vastly different than ancient ones and if we've found new ways to work with others in love, I fail to see the problem. Either way, a quick study on the word "abomination", shows that the English word is much more severe in it's meaning than any of the Hebrew, Latin or Greek counterparts. Not saying it isn't a sin, but it isn't necessarily held up as worse, or somehow more hideous than eating shellfish, stealing, or any number of other sins. It isn't more reprehensible than murder, and yet prison ministries are all the rage while ministering to homosexuals is still seen as somehow bad, especially if they don't immediately repent.
An abomination? It's interesting that we all point to that word and that verse in context of homosexuality. Jesus' strongest language about sin came in Matthew 5:21-26 when he says that when his followers label another a "fool" that they are in danger of "the fire of hell." Or, in Matthew 18, Jesus declares that those who cause children to stumble (I think that there's a good case Jesus is talking about pedophilia here) would be better off if they drowned themselves in water.
As a woman who was gay for 30 of her 53 years, this man is lying to you. He is DANGEROUS! The church is for believers, not sinners! We are to go out and make disciples, not bring them in to leaven the whole batch with sin! I cannot allow my ears to be tickled with this nonsense. Jesus died for my sins, and He, as my Savior, has given me a new heart and spirit. My spirit wants NOTHING to do with sin, of ANY kind. Do I make mistakes, of course, but I do not consciously disobey!!!!! So when I hear people like this, who is a wolf in sheep's clothing, I shudder at how many he has misled. Tell me where in the Bible it mentions major or minor sins? The Bible doesn't say major and minor...that is man trying to justify sin. That is this man playing word games with you, because the god he serves likes to play these deceitful games. Ask Eve about the game he played with her! Born Again is not living in your sin. He has no idea what leads to a reprobate mind, because he he is lost, leading the lost, to the edge of a cliff. Romans 1:26-32 EXPRESSLY STATES HOMOSEXUALITY IS THE SIN THAT CAUSES A REPROBATE MIND. In other words, the sin that leads to other sins such as murder! Please, wake up!!!! Find a Bible believer pastor like Charles Lawson or Robert Breaker and submit fully to the will of God! 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
You are not being contextual with the words of Jesus when you speak of the passage about seeing a speck in your brother's eye - and here lies a great portion of your error - [ In another speech you made against the sovereignty of God - you made big issue on considering the context - then you went on to contradict yourself when speaking of the potter and the clay and tried to directly compare humans with God by stating that the potter in Jerimiah 18 forms the clay and does so as responding to the clay as if it has a mind of its own and you stated that God had no choice but to respond to the clay's own determination - WHAT HERESY ! - [ In this case of seeing the speck in your brother's eye - you ignore the context and all the passages of the bible that command us to bring sinful practices out in the open and rebuke our brother and you wrongly assert that we have no good reason to mention any sin we see because Jesus asked the question - why do you see the sin in others when you do not notice your own sin ? - NOW COMES THE CONTEXT [ Luk 6:42 (ESV) How can you say to your brother, ‘Brother, let me take out the speck that is in your eye,’ when you yourself do not see the log that is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take out the speck that is in your brother's eye. [ The context clearly emphasizes that Jesus is not telling you to ignore other scriptures about bring sin to light and rebuking your brothers - He is talking about hypocrites who do not recognize their own inability to conquer their evil ways - but they think they are righteous enough to help conquer the evil in someone else [ The truth of these verses is magnifying the truth of God's sovereignty by showing us that - in the same way that we cannot conquer sin in our own life - we cannot do it for our brothers [ Can a leaper change his spots ? No - and a sinful man cannot stop sinning - ONLY the spirit of God can restrain sin - [ So when we finally realize that we cannot lean on our own understanding and power to overcome sin in our own life and we realize that ONLY the grace and power of God is responsible for every good thing - including the restraint of evil in our own life - then we understand what Jesus is saying [ If you understand that only God can take the sin out of your life - then you understand that only God alone can take the sin out of your brother's life ] However if you don't understand that - and you wrongly think that you can remove the sin from your own life - then you are a hypocrite and you wrongly think that you can point to the sin of your brother and tell him that you know how to help him get the sin out of his life - [ that is the fallacy of free will thinking - it is human centered [ God made Adam perfect and when Adam sinned - every person from him except Jesus was a lump of clay that had their own corrupted mind against God - no difference between one lump or the other - there were not some lumps better than others - they all have gone out of the way because there is none that seeks God [ God could be perfectly just and let every singe one of us continue in corruption on our way to hell - just like before the flood everyone killing each other etc . - and God would not be responsible for any of their sin . [ can a bitter spring bring forth sweet water ? can a leopard change his spots ? [ no and a corrupt lump of clay cannot have a good thought or understanding of anything good because goodness is spiritual and the natural mind cannot understand anything spiritual - so no one has ears to hear or eyes to see because they are dead in trespasses and sin [ no one would ever hear or see the truth UNLESS God acted first - to take the corrupt lump of clay and CHANGE it [ Romans 9 [ remember don't just look at a verse or two and then make a big humanistic speech about it thinking you know what the bible teaches when you ignore the greater context [ also - don't twist the context to what you want it to be and contradict yourself and teach heresy by saying God has to mold the clay the way the clay wants to be molded [ you read romans 9 then you claimed it was a lie [ you rightly stated that you don't worship a God as defined in romans 9 - because you don't want God to tell you what to do - you want your own god that has no choice but deal with you according to your own inclinations [ such is the fallacy of human centered religion - free will [ the only true religion is God centered and it specifies that everything good comes from God and God does everything good - God shows His power and His glory by everything He ordains to come to pass [ you spoke about how you could not imagine to give God glory if anything bad happened to your children ] have you considered what God ordained to happen to His Son ? [ if God can bring the greatest glory to Himself by ordaining the the death of His Son at the hands and by the actions of dirty rotten lumps of clay - He can bring glory to Himself by anything and everything that He ordains to come to pass [ that is the full context of the bible [ read it again [
I can't speak for everywhere in the United States or other countries, however I personally know some pretty awesome Spirit filled churches that are totally LGBTQ affirming .. so much so that they just happen to be some of the leading ministries sought out by people around the country. As a gay man, I can't even imagine going to a church where I am "tolerated" or accepted until I am what that particular church believes is God's Word.Will for LGBTQ people. Indeed ... ALL of us who are in process of transformation come to know that (as one of my Spiritual Directors told me) "It's an inside job" If there are LGBTQ people who are willing to be tolerated "until the change comes", it's not my job to make their decision ... however, I could never be at home at a church like yours, no matter how good your other teaching is.
We are all sinners but the difference between a saint and a sinner is we get up again 🫣 Really? You are either a saint or a sinner… because they are 2 opposite ends of the spectrum,
At 5:05 to 5:10 - "Though at most it's mentioned 3 times in the O.T. and 3 time in the new". Actually it mentioned in many places throughout the bible. OLD TESTAMENT: Genesis 13:13, Genesis chapters 18 and 19, Leviticus 18:22, 20:13, Deuteronomy 23:17, Judges 19:22, 1 Kings 14:24, 15:12, 22:46, 2 Kings 23:7, Ezekiel 16:49-50. NEW TESTAMENT: Romans 1:26-27, 1 Corinthians 6:9, 1 Timothy 1:10, 2 Peter 2:6-7, Jude 7. Also Deuteronomy 22:5 refers to the abomination of cross dressing which transgenders today practice.
+camp parson's sunday school Nope-- I have been happily married to my wife for 23 years. As a passionate follower of Jesus-- I simply think it's important that we be accurate when we make statements regarding scripture. Grace and peace to you!!
Jesus chose Paul to be an apostle for the church, Paul is quite clear on sexual sin and how wilful sinners should be admonished and if no repentance should be forbidden fellowship with the brethren to avoid the leven levening the whole lump. Jesus came to fulfil the law, just because many churches are morally weak weak with many of its congregations doesnt mean thats a model to just accept. If the churches do not hold up a standard to aim for then the church will dissolve into an amoral mess. Jesus said to the cripple ....sin no more.
Dr Boyd is a refreshing voice in this issue.....thank god.... he is WELL EDUCATED (Yale, Princeton) and writes 1500 page scholarly books...and can be this loving and compassionate teaching CORRECT theology about Jesus. This needs a million likes. If you don't understand his theology- read some more-- its all there. He is really on point. No hypocrisy and for goodness sake. HE IS NOT A LIBERAL either. :)
This message really spoke to me. I've been wrestling with how we as Christians approach gay people lovingly. This has helped immensely. I have 2 gay sons who I love more than my own life and I'm immensely proud of. I don't want to dilute scripture but I know love is the overriding message. I finally feel like I'm getting somewhere with my struggle.
@@gulanhem9495 Gay teenagers commit suicide at 3 x the rate of other teenagers because of the judgement (and hatred) they feel from other humans. I am not trans and do not choose to be, but 250 trans women are murdered every year because of the judgement and hatred they live under from others. None of us need your approval for what we are, nor do you need my approval for whatever you are.
We can believe in Jesus power to set us free from what He calls sin...we don't have to and cannot persist in rebellion if we're going to call Jesus Lord. Jesus asked, "Why do you call me Lord and not do what I say?" He also said, "Not everyone who calls me Lord will enter the Kingdom of Heaven...only those who do the will of my Father will enter."
You are right! It's not a political issue but a spiritual one! We are dealing not with flesh and blood but against principalities ....against spiritual wickedness in high places! Ephesians 6:12
+Jesus Lives I agree--we don't address this through mixing the two Kingdoms. We do through loving, serving, and sacrificing for the world. Hearts get changed when they see Jesus in us.
Kevin Thomas, love the Lord with all your heart is the greatest commandment. The second greatest is to love your neighbor as yourself. You are right that Christ showed us that love on the cross. However, if we truly love someone you will tell them the Truth. Truth is not subjective. Truth is that homosexuality (just like other sins in the Bible) will keep us from Christ. In 1 Corinthians 6 all these things are listed. But you know what is not listed? Many in the gay community like to give this issue the same traction as racism or sexism. What is not listed in the many lists of sins is race, sex (male or female), tall, short, etc. if I were to tell the homosexual that they need Christ and in Him turn from their sin then I would be the most hateful person of all. I would be condemning that person to hell if I did not attempt to share that truth. So to truly show them Jesus in us we must be like Christ and share the same gospel he came to proclaim. Not the gospel of existentialism.
+Eric Newport Indeed if we are in relationship -- we should hold each other accountable. If not--we love, serve and sacrifice till we build that relationship. When the time comes...be prepared to be called out on your "stuff" as well. BTW--Jesus is the Word of God ...the Bible is scripture...which drives us to Him.
I plan to add more later when I have more time. But I have one immediate observation: the problem is not so much what Greg says, as what he doesn't say. He doesn't say that homosexual activity is wrong, plain and simple. Yes, of course, the church should open wide its arms to sinners, but it should also teach them what sin is, and that "without holiness no one will see the Lord." The current zeitgeist is like a freight train running over the biblical view of homosexual activity as sin. If we are to be faithful to the Lord, it seems we must affirm (kindly and with great compassion, of course) the Holy One of Israel's standards of sin and righteousness,
I think he didn't say that because it's been said enough. I work in a secular environment where one of the first questions my boss asked me was if I hate gay people. Greg is telling us to focus more on love than constantly pointing fingers at the sin of others like the Pharisees did.
the time of kindness and great compassion are OVER! War means put it away and have NOTHING to do with it. You cannot be nice and convert anyone. The HOLY SPIRIT can but REPROBATES will NEVER be saved! GOD gave them over to a reprobate mind to do those things until they destroy themselves. this whole generation is turning reprobate. better not "PLAY with GOD like this so called pastor is doing!
God / Jesus calls us all to repentance. No one should expect to enjoy church attendance or experience Gods peace, love or joy of salvation if they’re continuing to sin unrepentantly. Consider what Jesus himself said in Mathew’s gospel, chapter 11... “Then began he (Jesus) to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not:” 21 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. 22 But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you. 23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. 24 But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee. Matthew 11:20 KJV www.bible.com/1/mat.11.20.kjv This sadly confused person (Boyd) needs to read Matthew 11... and listen to Jesus abraid cities which failed to REPENT.
he went to some sort of gay movement event, and he said it FELT RIGHT to him? is that how we judge truth by how it feels? we are sinfull people living in a sinfull dead body, a body of flesh that wants!! to sin. And we are to judge truth by how we feel? he could not be more wrong!!!!, we are to judge truth, not by how we feel, but by THE WORD OF GOD!!!
Jared, trust me, if you have watched any of Greg Boyd's other videos or listened to any of his sermons you would see the reason he says his blood pressure gets high over this is because he believes people should be fighting for/against many of the things you listed. Greg Boyd truly does have a heart for those least of these.
he says being gay is no worse of sin than being an adulterer...then why would he say he is happy that more and more gay people have been attending woodlan Hills and why did he not say that he is happy that more and more adulterers are attendending he church... seeems like he is legitimizing their ie. "hamartia" "missing the mark" "sin" is something to be proud of....he speaks out of both sides of his mouth to be accepted with the "cool" people of the world.
What he said, about fear is the crux: If fear is ruling your actions, you have a problem. God hasn't given us a spirit of fear...fear is torment...Conservatives afraid of Obama, liberals afraid of Trump....if you are a Christian, fear should not be ruling you. Get into the Word, pray without ceasing, let God deal with your own personal transformation in Christ. When you spend your life conscious of Him and HIs power and grace in your life, whatever you do is not ruled by outside forces, but by His Spirit. We are all lost, as Christians and non-Christians, without His mercy and grace. (We as Christians are supposed to be the reflection of Him in this world...Ambassadors. And non-Christians know we are His by our love for one another... John 16:35. There is more light reflected from us when we allow our own selves to be transformed than by walking into a voting booth to "vote morally". We, indeed, need to get our priorites right. There will be no voting booths in Eternity...but there will be Love and His Glory)
There is a lot to like about Greg Boyd personally as well as his theology and this talk. He's excited and passionate about Jesus Christ and that's a good thing. He seems to be a genuine, loving, compassionate, decent person who tries to emulate Christ in everything. He's got a great sense of humour. Around 1:30 Greg says that "neither this nor any other political issue deserves a whole sermon". What would the scriptural basis be for this? Just curious. Something tells me that Greg would not have a problem preaching about comprehensive immigration reform or, during the 1950 and 1960s, against racist segregation laws. During the 1940s, would he have joined Dietrich Bonhoeffer and spoken out against Nazism? Maybe I'm wrong and Greg would remain silent on these issues. Maybe due to his pacifism he wouldn't plot to assassinate Hitler but preach against Nazism in his church? I have a hard time believing him that he wouldn't speak in his church on political matters. Given the books Greg has written, he doesn't seem shy about sharing his view on politics or right-wing policy positions. I could be wrong. Although he doesn't come out and say this directly, the underlying tone is that Jesus/God supports left-wing policy prescriptions, especially as it relates to the military, immigration, socialism, etc. Again, I could be wrong. Around 2:20 Greg says that God's ideal for marriage is a union between a man and a woman committed solely to each other. It misses the mark, as does, he says, divorce and adultery, polygamy, lust all miss the mark. That is where Woodlands Hills stands. I agree. However, is it just that it's not ideal like murder is not ideal or like murder, is it a sin for which a person should repent and change course? Or, is that not important? Around 3:15 Greg says we are all sinners. That's true. As he says, Christians should be humble and not judge others. Fair enough. However around 3:30 he goes on to imply that those who believe the Bible deems homosexual sexual relationships as sinful believe that this sin is worse than others. He lost me here. A person can believe any sin is sin but not see one was worse than the other in God's Kingdom. On earth, I would argue that murder and rape are worse than cutting/budding in line. For years, including in the Bible, some sins are punished more severely than others. We don't give murderers a few months in prison and shoplifters 25 years. This doesn't make church goers any superior or less needing Christ's grace. Christian communities should make it clear that those inside are just as broken as those outside. It should be widely, consistently, and publicly acknowledged that our churches are not holy country clubs but more like AA meetings. Christians should drop the masks and admit that they struggle with sin just like those on the outside. Yes, Christians should first take the planks out of their eyes but that doesn't mean they should be silent about something the Bible describes as harmful. Soft-peddling ANY sin, including our own, in the name of inclusiveness, does no one any favours. At 3:30, he talks about the church repenting about the way it has sinned toward gay people throughout history. Again, where is the scriptural admonishment of Christians to repent of other people's sins? If I sin against my brother, is it my great-grandchild's responsibility to correct and apologize for? Where does Jesus recommend group guilt? Has the church not also scapegoated divorcees? Adulterers? Thieves (see Les Miserables)? Murderers? Around 4:30, Greg is talking about idolatry - the idolatry of having more than you need when there are others who have less than they need. Hoarding is idolatry. Really? Can something be wrong on its own without being idolatry? This is where what Greg says sounds very much like 'liberation theology' (which itself is political) and some might wonder whether we are getting into the territory of fetishizing socialism or making poverty a virtue. Yes, it's true that the Bible and Jesus warned against greed and being indifferent to the suffering of those around us. Over and over again, Jesus points His followers to sharing and helping as did the Good Samaritan. With a few exceptions, however, deciding how much to share was often left up to the individual. There is no blanket declaration that all must sell what they have and give to the poor. I'd be curious to know what Greg finds incorrect about this video: ua-cam.com/video/i9EXnVitkmo/v-deo.html The church should, and does, warn against the LOVE of money. Or greed. Or thinking that, due to our wealth, power, or success that we have no need for God. This despite the fact that He said "the poor would always be with you". Jesus could have wiped out poverty during his ministry but he didn't. He didn't ask His followers to either. He advocated sharing, compassion, care, help etc. and left it up to His followers to decide how much. There is no HOLY amount. What's interesting is that most people don't consider themselves rich. Rich is what people are who make slightly more or have slightly more than they do. Around 5:00, Greg talks about how often something is mentioned in the Bible. This doesn't seem persuasive. How often is murder mentioned in the New Testament? How often does Jesus mention murder? Not much. It's assumed in his teaching. One would think it to be self-evident. How often did Jesus mention bestiality? Or rape? The number of times something is mentioned does not seem to indicate its relative harm or benefit to the individual or society nor would it seem to indicate its importance. How often does Jesus talk about the Golden Rule or the Greatest Commandment? How often are either mentioned in the Bible? It would seem loving God with all one's heart, soul, and mind and one's neighbour as oneself would be everywhere in the Bible and in Jesus' teaching. It's not mentioned that often, and yet Jesus identified it as most important. All the rest is commentary, he said. Yes, Jesus attracted and hung out with those who the religious people looked down on. So His followers should as well. Point taken. However, Jesus told those who he did not condemn to go and sin no more. So he didn't prevent their sin from keeping him from befriending them but because He loved them, He didn't want "to leave them that way." He wanted to heal them and make them healthy. When a doctor soft-peddles a cancer diagnosis, she doesn't her patient no harm. She does him no good by condemning him for his lifestyle choices that lead to the cancer. At 7:30, Greg says Christians should be the last people on the planet that tell others what is sinful. Does that rule out confessing sin to one another? Did the Woman at the Well ask Jesus to point anything out to her? Did that stop Jesus from telling her which of her behaviours were hurting her? Doesn't seem like it. It seems that Jesus was pretty clear about identifying self-destructive, unhealthy, harmful, and yes, sinful behaviours. The difference was the loving way He did it. With the exception of religious leaders, he didn't condemn. He befriended them. He loved them. He valued them. He redeemed them. He included them. That's what His followers should try to do as well. Not act holier-than-thou. Not single out one sin for special condemnation. Befriend. Love. Value. Include. Yet, at the same time, at some point, the church has to be clear about whether its leadership can be living in open sin. I believe scripture, despite what some fellow Christians like Matthew Vines believe, teaches that homosexual sex is a sin and separates from God. However, I don't think the government should criminalize it just as it doesn't criminalize common-law partnerships or pre-marital sex. In return, I believe Christians should not be forced to celebrate that which they believe is not God's ideal.
Come on, Greg. You compared Christians who want to "call out sin" to "The Taliban". ...a group that blows themselves up and cuts off peoples heads with a knife. That argument is absurd at best. I love your sermons. I am surprised and stunned by this statement. .coming from you. Your logic and path of thought has always been impeccable. Seems to me. ..that you were willing to call Christians terrorists in an attempt to love gay people. That is really messed up
Disaster! False teaching! Yes we should not judge those outside the Church but must not tolerate constant sin inside! Be discerning, brothers and sisters!
Did the woman in the letter say to imprison homosexuals? I hear a lot of dodging of the issues in his remarks. One simple question is homosexuality a sin? Did the prostitutes that followed Jesus continue in their sin? Did the tax collector continue to steal while they followed Christ? Did he not tell the woman discovered in prostitution to go and sin no more. He never justifies the sins of his followers by simply loving them. It's his love that requires them to abandon their sin with his power. The way you talk you downplay confrontation of sin and elevate the embracing of staying in their sins. He never answers the question if homosexuals who claim to be believers should continue in a sinful lifestyle. I doubt that Nathan was sinless when he confronted David regarding Bathsheba. Ezekiel says the blood of the people will be on the watchman if he doesn't warn them of the coming of impending danger. Greg, this is a complete dodging of the issues. You make a sin virtuous by condemning and vilifying someone who has been commanded to confront it. No one said the person confronting the sin is more pure than the brother being confronted. that's a cheap dodge of an important and sensitive issue. Shame on you for treating it so cliche and cheaply. Your intellect knows better.
Very well said! Society as a whole and now even many in our churches are embracing Greg's attitude toward homosexuality and other sexual sins. It is now 11 years since Greg preached this message. Has this love, love, love attitude caused homosexuals to abandon gay marriage and come to Christ? Or have they become more militant and demanding of our acceptance of their lifestyle? If we are truly going to be ambassadors for Christ, we must certainly love them but call them to repentance. They will never be saved otherwise. You cannot have a ministry of reconciliation without a call to repentance and faith in Christ - without a call to turn from sin and embrace the one who can empower you to overcome sin. All else is mamby pamby mushy acceptance of sin.
Yes. He MINISTERED to them. He did not reject them. That was and is Greg Boyds point. Love them without confirming their (or our!) sin. And Greg’s point he has brought up again and again is that politics are not the Christian’s tool to ”stop” people from sinning. That was the pharisees and saducees tool.
Jude 1:4 For there are certain men (such as Greg Boyd) crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
Don't get me wrong, I understand what he is saying...but much of his argument for not "legislating morality" could also be used for murder...or pedophilia.
Mike Honaker This message says exactly the opposite of what you are claiming. Greg's stand against mixing Christianity and politics lost his church a whole bunch of people. Everything he does calls down new wrath from the American religious elites. He's not scratching itching ears, he's speaking truth as he sees the scripture tell it and drawing the ire of the pharisees. This is not new.
I would agree with your main points . We live in a nation governed by secular laws , while we who are religious have the right to engage in political questions ; believers should NEVER have access to state power .
And the devil sits back and laughs. The fact that you say there are openly gay people in your congregation and you won't tell them the truth. Hell is real and these people need to know the truth. Tickling there ears just to grow your congregation does No one any good. Eternity is serious business. God's word never changes. Do your flock a favor and tell them the truth.
Pont well put Tom. Is it loving to condone a gay lifestyle in the body? Greg is an intelligent person, so why all the logical fallacies in this sermon? Is he mistaken or is there another reason?
Jesus forgave the woman taken in adultery but he didn't stop there; He told her to stop committing adultery. He told her to repent of her sin and stop doing it. If someone has been truly saved; truly born of the Spirit of God, it's because, under the convicting power of the Holy Spirit, the sinner sincerely confesses and repents of his sin and receives God's grace through faith in the death and Resurrection of Jesus. From then on, the Holy Spirit continually works through love, to bring the truly self-denying, cross-carrying disciple into allignment with God's Word and will. This dying to self demands the continual placement of the heart upon God's altar of sacrifice and it involves intense pressures of many trials and testings and requires the disciples deepest trust that his Heavenly Father will conform him to the image of the Master. God bless and Shalom.
Sorry folks, but I urge you to stay away from Greg! He is too weak to speak out against wickedness like we are supposed to do, and he also supports Gun Control!
While yes it is true that we are not called to judge those outside the church as that is God's job, what of those who clame to be believers, and are openly gay? Are we not called to confront them? And I realize that many "Christians" are living in the flesh and in sin, but their sin is not in the open and can not be delt with until its brought into the light, Ephesians 5:1-7 speaks of how people living in fornication (any sexual sin) will have no inheritance in the kingdom of God, and that we
There's a big difference between supporting people within the struggle of repentance of sin (which first requires the Spiritual gift of discernment that comes through true faith in Christ) and being accepting of sin either passively or actively. Boyd, by seemingly identifying serious sin as somehow too common place and prevalent within the Church to be spoken out against, is a sign of spiritual passivity in speaking the truth of what it means to walk in Christ, in Faith and in Love. After all, Apostle Paul never shied away from condemning serious sin publicly even if it offended those in the Church that were actively involved in that sin. Paul never feared that by speaking the truth that it would drive people away from their faith, quite the opposite, Paul hoped that professing the truth would bring Christian's into salvific faith through repentance, not run away from it. Paul even abandoned people to Satan who would not repent of their sins. I would look to The Apostles and Paul as to how to handled a public profession about homosexuality in society. That's not what Boyd did here in this video, unfortunately. But Boyd's had similar issues of error regarding other sexual sins related to pornography and fornication so it seems clear there's a hole in his understanding of the God's truth surrounding the expressions of sexuality. He's not the best one to go to for Godly understandings about sexual expressions within salvific faith as his teachings on these subjects have a distinctly worldly tinge to them.
I see a lot of comments on here saying this mans teaching isn't right, or he's a coward and so forth. I would just like to say the church is for the sinner and the saint. Most of us who are saved I'm pretty sure got saved in a church. Before that we were sinners sitting in a church and through the love of Jesus we seen in the people and the grace of the word that was we went to get saved. So this man having Gays in his church to experience the love of Jesus through the people and here the Grace of the gospel is ok with me even if takes a month or years before they forsake their sin Homosexuality.
The problem is that he is the shepherd of his flock and he is leading them down a cliff to hell! The leader must be stern and direct! The new age movement teaches just about God's love and that's all they teach! They forget God's wrath and his judgement. We can not obey just a portion of his law. Obedience is all or nothing at all! Yes we should be accepting of homosexuals and show our love but he has to show that he has the balls to teach his flock what it takes to be a born again Christian and that means giving up their lifestyle. So far he hasn't done that! The second point is that you say you are saved? How do you know? Once saved, always saved is a false doctrine also! It is the devils doctrine from the Calvinistic view so pray about your own shepherd (pastor) as he may be leading you and your congregation down a cliff?
+Gunporn 69 Obedience is all or nothing but there isn't one christian who has achieved that, we are sinners saved by grace and we all still sin. Sanctification is a process and takes time it is different for each person. I've seen people get saved and delivered from some things all at once, but most have to work on their stuff and over time through prayer and forgiveness things start to fall off. Yes once saved always saved is false and there's many more false doctrines out there.
Yes but should we not speak out when you know I and I know people are being led into the wide and broad path because they are following a different Jesus from whom we believe in? The false prophets who comes in the name of Jesus such as the John Hagee's, Benny Hinn's and Joel Osteens who are paving a path for the son of perdition! This preacher is of the new age movement and not of our God because all new age preachers preach the God of love and tolerance! I have seen too many of their kind as I was raised as a Buddhist, studied different cults, religions and sects before I became a christian. My only spiritual gift is of discernment. Mike, the time of tribulation is upon us. We must endure trials as tribulations will become more and more difficult for us Christians! Yes it will be the Grace of God that we may endure. As you know I do not believe in OSAS but I believe in Post tribulation rapture. Jesus did not come to bring peace but a sword! Matthew 10:34. Although eschatology is my favorite subject, there are many signs indicating the beginning of the tribulation period! " Thou (plural) therefore (indicating a serious lesson to learn) endure hardness (a commandment) as a good soldier of Christ Jesus! (Comparative)" 2 Timothy 2:3
+Jesus Lives I don't know this pastor or his life I only know his message, but since I have ministered to many adults with addictions and the like I agree with his message. I also believe in post trib. I don't think this guy preaches tolerance, I think he preaches love which also confronts sin. Just because he does not run the gays out of church does not mean he accepts their lifestyle, is the church not for the sinner to come and learn of the love God has for them. Is it not God's love that brings us to repentance (Rom 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?). Yes Jesus didn't come to bring peace but he commands us to love people and hate sin. We are to love even the the homosexuals.
I truly believe that many of our church's have been taken over by such groups as the gay agenda, not to repent but to bring down our christian faith a piece at a time! I have seen so many church's fall to accommodate this Political Correctness! You must have seen the United churches, with the female ministers marrying gay couples in the church! They are making a mockery of our faith and laughing at our Lord Jesus! I guess I wish that there were Christians that would stand up for His word and not preach a "lukewarm" sermon to accommodate the few and only to be spit out of the mouth of God. I understand what you are saying and you are not the only person who strongly believe this! I get it, but a wedge in the church will only divide us and we all know what happens to a house that is divided? Did God not say that he gave them up like animals as a reprobate? I believe a reprobate mind is beyond redemption, an unforgivable sin! So why pay so much attention to them when there are so many other people out there that needs ministering to? Because the media, and the gay agenda will play its card, calling us out! Eg. Say something about the Jew and you are an Antisemite, say something about the blacks and you are a racist! Say something about homosexuals and you are not a christian because you don't love them like everyone else! These will be the days of tribulation Mike and it's only going to get worst when they unite all these so called churches into a one world religion to pave the way for the Antichrist! I am going to take the path that is hard. I am and will be hated because of my love for Jesus! I don't want to take the path where I am a popular preacher where I please everyone alike and not to offend! That is the easy route, they wide path to destruction!
We can,t forget Paul. If it,s good for Paul it,s good for all. It is up to Christians to help a fallen brother and sister regardless of their faults. Why are you going to Church?? It is a place for redemption and forgiveness of sins. We can,t treat Church like a Culture Club or any kind of Club.
"Judging always drives them away." Is that why Peter said that Israel killed Jesus and had to repent, lest they be destroyed by God in Acts 2 and 3? Is that why Paul said the Athenians had false gods and will be judged by God unless they repent? Is that why Jesus told sinners to sin no more? Isn't that judging? This fluffball Christianity has nothing to do with the New Testament.
These comments are fascinating and revealing. So many people revealing they are afraid to love those they do not understand like Christ loved, and have made idols of their heterosexuality.
I think he's generally correct here. Evangelicals spend more time pointing the finger than cleaning up their own act. The sin of the Laodicean church was their being lukewarm about Jesus and those things close to His heart, preferring instead to rely on their wealth. Greg Boyd seems quite passionate about Jesus as well as helping the poor. To all those comparing Greg Boyd with the Laodician church, please show evidence of this.
Ben, interesting response again but could please clarify your last statement - "Not only that, his boundaries for sexual activity doesn't change for Caster". Sounds like to me that you're suggesting that the "Rules of Monogamy" would apply to her situation. And if that's the case... then you are trapped within your own argument! Or you might be suggesting that an isolated exegetical interpretation of a particular verse, somehow allows you to assess the sexual intentions and motivations of
The bible doesn't extensively address the sin of sexual child abuse either, but I dare Mr. Boyd to tell me that this is not an egregiously worse sin than over-eating. There are indeed degrees of sin measurable by the magnitude of the harm they tend to cause. Some sins are more injurious than others, whether the bible speaks of them often or not. Mr. Boyd often does a merry dance around certain issues, as a matter I assume of wisdom in addressing culture. But it is frustrating at times.
Timothy Cameron getting up!!!! Yeah I like the idea to get up every morning after having anal sex with that boyfriend I met at the church... what a kingdom of God isn’t it.
My beef is that he says in the clip we welcome "gay folks" here..it would have been good to clarify "just like any other sinner...adulterers, fornicators, liars, thieves- sinners are welcome here.because we believe when they come in contact with Jesus in an intimate way and understand the signicance of his sacrifice- they will be transformed from the inside out and be able to overcome through His gracewhich empowers up to transitioninto & partake of the divine nature.
The real question here in a aforementioned example is - Does someone like Caster Semenya or (others born with similar physical conditions or god given attributes) actually need “healing” as you’ve stated in your last post (?) If you are psychologically and physiologically born with a condition then how is it a “sin” ??? Obviously, I’m am not conflating here the general “Sinful Nature” that we are all are born with but rather those things that are not a matter of our choice, or lifestyle, etc.
The Reverend Boyd seems like a spirit filled Christian. I enjoy his passion, I enjoy watching him get excited about Jesus and I confess I am envious ( I know its a sin) of how excited and alive he feels in Christ. However ; this is one issue I could not walk away from. First let me say, my name is Greg and I was an alduterer and a fornicator. I am neither proud of what I was nor do I run away from it. I've never shared my story with anyone but it truly is a story of God's redeeming grace and how he never leaves you and never stops calling for you, even when you have completely forgotten about him. My problem with this video has a few points i would like to make. As I watched I noticed Rev Boyd put his head down and ever so slightly half speak and gloss over the church's position on gay marriage ( which I agree with) then lift his head and proceed to boldly and loudly proclaim that all sin was wrong and his church just wanted to love everyone .On the surface who can argue with that message but I have to. I said I was a sinner earlier because even then I knew what I was doing was wrong, I never tried to excuse it or looked for acceptance for it. Thankfully God rescued me from that lifestyle. My second issue is this, what does this church plan to do with the homosexuals it lovingly plans to attract because here is my experience. They are not looking for your love, they want your acceptance of their lifestyle. Far too many homosexuals do not accept that what they do is sin and anything you tell them will never register unless you first tell them that it is ok to do what they do. I saw Rev Boyd say it is a sin, but is he willing to tell them that. Is this church willing to draw a line in the sand and say, we love you, we welcome you, but we assume you are here from heart felt repentance and we want to help you leave that life behind you. Anything less than that and you are not truly loving them, you are enabling them.
Fantastically put! Couldn't agree more!
"Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them; for it is disgraceful even to speak of the things which are done by them in secret. But all things become visible when they are exposed by the light, for everything that becomes visible is light." (Ephesians 5:11-13)
And when you do that, they (homosexual practitioners) will invariably get defensive and leave the church or if they ARE truly convicted, will repent and remain in the church and will try to work out their salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12).
Jeremian Lastly I was particularly offended by your comment. You may not agree with what has been written, but to say that kind of stuff about my (our) God, especially when it is designed to anger me (us), is not only uncalled for because it is blasphemous in nature for us, and it certainly will not win us over to try to empathise with you. It invariably will have the opposite effect. It is that kind of language which perpetuates an escalation of retaliatory vehemence and abusive language. I will not hold that against you, because I understand that you are merely reacting to an unwarranted feeling of rejection. We do not reject you or hate you. It is actually the opposite. We want the best for you. The problem is that you do not see the world as we do. medium.com/@robertoberuffi/the-culture-war-2cbf83fb7b1#.hbfebbgvv
I agree, Greg. I don't see in the Bible that it is a sin to judge. I only see that Jesus warned, judge not lest you be judged. Judgment must begin within the house of God. Look at the Bible, OT and NT, and you will see that godly men pointed out the sins of their neighbors, in order to try to get them to face their sin and forsake it. James said that whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way saves a soul from death. That is loving your neighbor. Help them to forsake their sin, even if they persecute you for it.
Jeremian Lastly you are still my brother. I would do alibi could to help you with the hate in your heart
unsafegreg I find it very interesting that I watched a video from this very same preacher last night on how Romans 10 salvation will not save. He stated that it preaches a head knowledge of Jesus and does not require a heart change. I believe the example he gives is that it is akin to a legal contract where I say this and believe in my head (which is grossly misunderstood by him) and I have a free ticket to do whatever I want. He said without works (fruit) and a turning away from those sinful pursuits that it basically was not true salvation.
So I find it funny that now he is saying the exact opposite when it comes to the subject of homosexuality. Now it's OK because God may be working on something else in their life rather than what the Bible calls an abomination. You're serving two masters and are lukewarm and will be spit out.
All I know is I got sick of projecting hate. I want to draw to people TO Christ; not repel them away. Then, I'll let God convict people of their sins whatever they may be, and stay out of his way.
Amen!!
+Regen Ducere Preach it brother
+Christopher Michels "The fear of the Lord is to hate evil" (Proverbs)
One of the way he convicts people of sin is through the body (church). You're just taking the easy path because you personally feel uncomfortable with confrontation. There are ways to confront without "projecting hate" (this is a vague /meaningless term unless you're using a projector)
@@Mateo-et3wl Extremely well put
WOW! THAT WAS SO GOOD!!! Why isn't this sermon preached more in America??? This is the true gospel! Pure and Untainted!
great spirit in this man of love and none condemning for who is to condemn it is Christ that died we should help others and trust in Jesus remember Our Lord died on the cross we didn't.
I attended Woodland Hills met my wife there 8 years ago. I also went on 2 Mission trips with attendees and others while there. I like Greg and his ministry. I have never been under someones teaching who can both enlighten adn infuriate me simultananeously to the degree Greg can. I know he is genius level and i respect his diligence.
Wow, a Greg Boyd teaching that doesn't have comments blocked. Bold.
Let's see if it pays off
Like I said Greg is smarter than me by a country mile...but it just seems he is validating their identity as being "Gay". I know he wants to be sensitive to people who struggle with various sins but at some point you do have to call it sin and as such not something to be proud of as in an identity...rather than something to be dealt with like any other sin.
I don’t see Jesus calling it a sin in the Bible. Can you show me the verses where Jesus talks about homosexuality?
@@alexanderfloyd5099 Jesus talked about the distinctual nature of the creation of the sexes and how they were female was made for the male to be joined together
If people want to."pervert" ie twist God's intention for the sexes... this perversion stems from Satsnic influence to twist and rebel against God's design. The desire if Satan is to get God's crestion- humanity Made in Gods image ...to do the EXACT OPPOSITE of what God intended. Satan howls with laughter when mankind rebelelliously degrades their minds and bodies.
@@TIMtalksLIVE
1. Congratulations. Even if being gay is a sin, you still managed to completely miss the point of the video. You seem to be presenting yourself as the exact kind of person that he was speaking to, and you missed it. That's very impressive.
2. About the whole "gay is a sin" thing, well, maybe not. There's a legitimate case to be made that it's not inherently a sin according to Scripture. As with straight sex, it can be misused.
3. Jesus brought up the creation account in reference to a question about marriage. There was no such thing as gay marriage in that society. At that time, marriage was a legal contract between a man and his property, and often very young property at that. Do you really think Jesus endorsed that too, or did He just address the society that He was in?
It's funny how many people in the comments are claiming heresy and completely making his point about christians ranting and raving about one kind of sin and ignoring ones that are far more damaging to the world & that are accepted quite readily in the church itself.
Some people say, some people show.
No sin is more damaging to society than allowing a man to marry a man or a woman to marry a woman. That would totally destroy everyone on earth is two generations! And real Christians do not accept ANY sins readily but stand up against ALL sin, especially their own. So unless you are willing to stand up and be a REAL Christian yourself and fight against sin,especially your own, then you have absolutely no legitimate say so in the matter!
Regen Ducere I think you've taken the slippery slope fallacy a bit far there.
Regen Ducere So you're saying two people expressing their love for each other is a greater sin than the greed that forces vast swathes of humanity to live in poverty, or the hatred that drives people to murder others simply because they don't agree with their race or religion? Way to miss the point.
As a woman who was gay for 30 of her 53 years, this man is lying to you. He is DANGEROUS! The church is for believers, not sinners! We are to go out and make disciples, not bring them in to leaven the whole batch with sin! I cannot allow my ears to be tickled with this nonsense. Jesus died for my sins, and He, as my Savior, has given me a new heart and spirit. My spirit wants NOTHING to do with sin, of ANY kind. Do I make mistakes, of course, but I do not consciously disobey!!!!! So when I hear people like this, who is a wolf in sheep's clothing, I shudder at how many he has misled. Tell me where in the Bible it mentions major or minor sins? The Bible doesn't say major and minor...that is man trying to justify sin. That is this man playing word games with you, because the god he serves likes to play these deceitful games. Ask Eve about the game he played with her! Born Again is not living in your sin. He has no idea what leads to a reprobate mind, because he he is lost, leading the lost, to the edge of a cliff. Romans 1:26-32 EXPRESSLY STATES HOMOSEXUALITY IS THE SIN THAT CAUSES A REPROBATE MIND. In other words, the sin that leads to other sins such as murder! Please, wake up!!!! Find a Bible believer pastor like Charles Lawson or Robert Breaker and submit fully to the will of God!
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
I agree that as believers there is NO need for us to go out of our way to point out the sins of the world (esp. non-believers), however if and when we get asked by the world about their sinful lifestyle, then we need to with both conviction and humility point out what the Scripture says on this subject while speaking of the solution for ALL our sin and brokenness which is the cross of Jesus! There is definitely a difference between going out of our way to tell others about their sin and being asked and sharing the truth in love while NEVER, EVER leaving out the hope that Christ offers.
The point he begins to make at 4:10 "Why does the church make Homosexuality a greater sin than others in the bible that are mentioned more?" Answer: The other sins, in general, do not have public, powerful, wealthy groups decrying that they are not sins and it is "normal". Would the church or Christians push back any less if groups tried to say that theft or sex outside of marriage was not a sin and normal? I don't think so.
It's abomination probably all of them not
Why do you think those groups are coming out to challenge the Church? Maybe because the Church started it with its historic horrible treatment of homosexual people. We have to change that narrative of hate for certain sinners while ignoring others.
ITS AN ABOMINATION.......DO YOUR HOMEWORK PASTOR !!!!!!!!
I'm glad I seen this sermon even 5 years afterwards. praise the lord.
The Bible mentions homosexuality a total of 5 times. It mentions Greed and poverty a total of 2-3000 times. To quote Rev William Barber it's amazing to me how Christians spend so much energy on what the Bible says so little of and so little energy on what the Bible says so much about. Furthermore Jesus says "I have not come to all respectable people but the outcast" and said to the teachers of the law "Go learn what it means I demand mercy and not sacrifice"(Matthew 9:13). Many people in the Church show such little mercy and only malice, hatred, vitriol and vindictiveness to those in the gay community.
JANHOI MCCALLUM Not true. Christians don't hate the gay community. There is a difference between hating someone and saying that their lifestyle is immoral.
Melchizedek was mentioned about two times in all of the old testament. The significance of the role the order of Melchizedek plays in the latter stages of Scriptures the Jewish people miss til this day. Big sin little sin, sin is sin.
Janhoi Mc Callum. At the point that there is an organized group of Christians campaigning to call one of the other sins not only normal but God ordained, then that will become focal as well. This is not a battle over which sin is greatest, but rather a battle for the integrity of the Bible. Trying to side step this and normalize it by saying there are other sins that happen too simply reeks of compromise and appeasement.
What other parts of the Holy Bible do you not believe?
Interesting, Janhoi, there have been several credible responses and no rebuttal from you. You quote Matthew 9:13. Interesting that you ignore Jesus' teachings on righteousness and what the standards of marriage are. You seem a bit selective in your focus. Why is that?
My only problem is when sin (any sin) gets declassified as such, we are going down the wrong path.
He very clearly said homosexuality was a sin.
I was at this service. I was skeptical then. As time passed, I am less so. But my only fear then has absolutely come to fruition. The gay lifestyle and marriage are not something that concerns me at my core. What I feared was what it would usher in, what follows it through the door. Today, 10 years after, our society is permitting children to mutilate their bodies and poison themselves because they "feel" they are the wrong gender! These are children - people who are not mature adults - and they are cutting off their breasts or their genitals and the adults are letting them, in fact are performing the surgeries. These adults are acting self-righteous as if this naturally should be affirmed, while they take the money to the bank. It is sick, deluded and evil.
That my friends is what I feared back then. If you are offended by what I said well then God Bless You - you need to study your own heart and remember that these are immature children, unable to make such profound decisions. You are the adult.
⚠️There are only two kinds of preachers.⁉️ Those who preach the Bible.⁉️ And those who need to resign.❌️
THIS GUY NEEDS TO RESIGN⚠️ 💯💯💯💯
Why did he only quote 1/2 of verse 13 in 1 Corinthians 5:12-13? Oh I see, because the first half says that God will judge those outside the church and his point is that we should not judge anyone. Ok... but what about the rest of 13 which says "Put away from you (the church) the evil person"? He left that out because it goes against his anything is ok Christianity racket.
This is the same exact thing Satan does when he uses scripture to make his "point".
So, as a sinner yourself, are you not evil? If so, shouldn't we, as the Church, "put away" you? The approach you seem to be taking is one that says Christians should not love sinners. I'm sure you don't believe that, so what exactly do you think his message said that doesn't align with the last half of vs 13?
I agree only some parts like having patience, love, and respect for the LGBT people, as a Christian we are called to respect and love everyone regardless who they are and if they deserve it, for the simple reason that every human was made in the image of God. You all have a precious value in Gods eyes.
What I don't agree is that he tries to justify homosexuality marriage amendment by saying that we shouldn't have a care about what politically goes around. The Bible is filled with political dilemmas but Christians stay faithful and true to what they believe and won't give in.
Every person is different but don't try to justify any sin only cause you have a specific group of sinners going to your church.
I'm sure he ment it in a good way maybe he was even upset but don't make it sound like us Christians don't have a duty to do. We are told time and time again in the Bible to judge righteously, know them by their fruit, discernment of spirits... etc. But never by sight alone.
Their sin is out in the air everyone can see it even children. Every sin is the same in Gods eyes cause it separates us from him, but when you know the truth don't try to stop it from spreading or Jesus death and resurrection would have been in vain as apostle Paul says.
God bless, I pray for the people of the LGBT group for them to come into repentance. I love you guys, I am straight and I had my struggles coming to Jesus's feet and accepting the truth, but I am here and all that is left to say is that I hope I make it all the way to the end. Don't give up, let the Lord Jesus into your hearts whoever you are wherever you are, he will change you from the inside out ❤
I didn't get to since he was justify sin, he's just saying, don't be hypocritical and judge-mental .
@@fantasybouthour6679 I like where you put that hyphen! lol
Revisited this sermon, I agreed with this sermon back then, but a few thoughts emerged as time goes by, Dear Dr Greg, looking at the world today be it LGBTQ or Islam or Atheism or One world religion, understand that, those people professing those ideas aren't just harmlessly keeping it to themselves, in fact, they are slowly forcing their ideas upon everybody, look at the trend of what are taught in mainstream schools, gender fluidity, Islam being the cradle of civilizations technologies (upfront lie), syariah education, distorted history about palestine, evolution with antitheistic agenda ..etc. I get your point of being all accepting, all inclusive, and non condemning attitude towards unbelievers, but at the same time God did call us to strive to be holy (with the help of holy spirit of course), just like how God called Israel to be a Holy nation, there should be a line of separation when circumstances arise, what is the definition of Holiness again? Luke 8:16 - No one light a lamp and hides it in a jar or under a bed, instead they put it on a stand, so that those who come in can see the light. I know we are not perfect, I am not perfect, we are in no position to judge other people of their sin, but there is a huge difference between being judgmental and being vocal and stand up for the virtues of God and His kingdom, that is how light shines. Just my thought, being silent and ambigous in clear cut issues will be perceived by people as condoning. Why did people kill Jesus, apostles and countless saints throughout the ages if they are so meek? it is because they at the same time oppose openly the agendas being forced upon the believers. We should love gays but speak out against homosexualism, we should love muslims but vocally oppose Islam, we should befriend antitheist and exchange views but we have to insist God created the world, don't condemn pregnant teens but at the same time we need to stop them from terminating their pregnancy willfully. In another words I now support the lady who wrote the strong worded letters to you, perhaps she didnt phrase it the way I do, but I believe what I think now is what she mean. Sorry sir, I am truly sorry that I cannot agree with this sermon no more.
No the answer is not a theocracy .
Listen to the last of this sermon. Do not fear. Jesus is greater. Christianity, true Biblical Christianity, is growing like never before (despite how it looks in the media).
There is a good amount of truth here; however, Boyd ignores several verses that deal with sinning believers:
"If anyone does not obey our instruction in this letter, take special note of that person and do not associate with him, so that he will be put to shame." 2 Thes.3:14
"Those who continue in sin, rebuke in the presence of all, so that the rest also will be fearful of sinning." 1 Tim. 5:20
"Brethren, even if anyone is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; each one looking to yourself, so that you too will not be tempted." Galatians 6:1
"Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him." Luke 17:3
“If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector." Matthew 18:15-17
It seems like the post-modern church (much like the post-modern world it resides in) likes to take the easy way out, either wantonly castigating "sinners" or engaging in the cult of "do not judge!" Perhaps the church should teach people not only how to repent of their own sins, but how to help lead others to repentance (in humility and gentleness). The great problem with this is that it takes time to teach it, and it takes time to engage in the process, and we find ourselves in a time and place where shortcuts in all things are preferred.
Just because there are sins in the Bible that are given less attention doesn't mean they are any less important. Not recognizing sin for what it is is a societal mistake. So to say we ignore some sins so that makes this sin right is dangerous territory. Eventually we won't think anything is a sin anymore and humanity will fail.
I don't get it, are they affirming their homosexuality or in the process of delivering them from this lifestyle?
Jesus attracted sinners BUT those people DIDN'T CONTINUE to live a sinful life after meeting Him. I don't see sinners in the Bible that continued a sinful life and at the same time staying in Jesus' presence.
As people didn't like the Light 💡 when it came in the world because they didn't want their sinful deeds to be seen.
The only people that stayed with deep love in the presence of Jesus [ the 💡 of the World ] were sinners that repented of their sins and stopped doing them.
If a sinner feels good in a church while leading a sinful life and if that persons feels comfortable with their sin, then that church "misses Gods target".
As it's being said in Psalm 1, that sinners shall not stand in the congregation of the righteous.
Benjamin Ros very true
Benjamin Ros what about the prostitutes and thieves that he hung out with,, they're described as prostitutes and thieves not ex- prostitutes and thieves
Angel Lewis well you still have to acknowledge your sins and turn away from them. Jesus walked with sinners. But to save them from the grips of sin [I came to call sinners to repentance] and in no way to encourage the sin.
Benjamin Ros quite right. which seems to be exactly what Boyd is advocating here. love is first. not judging or dwelling on the sins of others is a fundamental part of that.
You show me where Boyd called a sinner to repentance here?
There is a mistake here in Boyd's equivocation with accusation and condemnation. Jesus and His apostles make judgments and call others to make right judgments within the church. However, we are not called to condemn. Knowing the difference between the two is the answer to healthy ministry.
You’re not condemning Greg are you?
We are blessed to have Pastor Boyd deliver this passionate, compassionate message! Thank you Pastor Boyd for reminding us how far many have strayed from the example set by Jesus Christ.
As a woman who was gay for 30 of her 53 years, this man is lying to you. He is DANGEROUS! The church is for believers, not sinners! We are to go out and make disciples, not bring them in to leaven the whole batch with sin! I cannot allow my ears to be tickled with this nonsense. Jesus died for my sins, and He, as my Savior, has given me a new heart and spirit. My spirit wants NOTHING to do with sin, of ANY kind. Do I make mistakes, of course, but I do not consciously disobey!!!!! So when I hear people like this, who is a wolf in sheep's clothing, I shudder at how many he has misled. Tell me where in the Bible it mentions major or minor sins? The Bible doesn't say major and minor...that is man trying to justify sin. That is this man playing word games with you, because the god he serves likes to play these deceitful games. Ask Eve about the game he played with her! Born Again is not living in your sin. He has no idea what leads to a reprobate mind, because he he is lost, leading the lost, to the edge of a cliff. Romans 1:26-32 EXPRESSLY STATES HOMOSEXUALITY IS THE SIN THAT CAUSES A REPROBATE MIND. In other words, the sin that leads to other sins such as murder! Please, wake up!!!! Find a Bible believer pastor like Charles Lawson or Robert Breaker and submit fully to the will of God!
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
Great stuff Greg! As someone from the UK it's nice to hear a more nuanced statement on the topic!
J LOWE. JENNIFER LOPEZ? That's funny!
Just don't be fooled by the rocks that I got.
"Having this humble attitude always attracts sinners of all sorts." -- That's almost true. The only sinners that kind of "humble" attitudes doesn't attracts are those who are truly saved by God, those who love being corrected, reproved, and even disciplined by God, those who love the truth and hate the sin, and those who are in this world but don't appeal to this world and don't mix with this world and don't belong to this world. These people, sir, you can never attract with your false teaching and fake humble attitude. Stop that, and start repenting.
+haiyingz Wow...have you even checked out Dr. Boyd before disparaging him? How do you know is humility is fake? Bearing false witness is something that I don't believe is congruent with following Jesus.
Kevin Thomas Do you understand this: Humility towards men but not to God's Word (and therefore to God) is the greatest arrogance? I wish you did, but apparently you don't.
"those who are truly saved by God, those who love being corrected, reproved, and even disciplined by God, those who love the truth and hate the sin, and those who are in this world but don't appeal to this world and don't mix with this world and don't belong to this world"
Those who meet that definition are the 99 sheep the shepard left in search of the lost one. Those are the healthy that the doctor didn't come for. Those are not the ones who surrounded Jesus. Or do you think anyone who would meet those standarts BEFORE meeting Jesus would still have been a prostitute or tax collector?
All it took for people to be welcomed by Jesus with open arms was one simple thing: The recognition that they needed redemtion. That is ALL you need to come.
And it is those that feel that need that you want to attract, regardless of what state they are in, regardless of how lost they are, regardless of how deep they are entangled in sin. THOSE are the lost sheep, those are the sick, those are the sinners Jesus came to call.
That is ALL you need to come? Then why in James does it say Faith without works is dead....... Dead meaning you have (dead faith)
Jesus said if you are not born again you will not see the kingdom of God. You need more than just a recognition of redemption.
Regeneration = Justification = Sanctification
+Daniel Gilbert
Works are the result of salvation, not it's cause.
What I was talking about what it takes to come to Jesus. Not about what it takes to follow him. As someone once put it, "Salvation costs nothing, discipleship costs everything".
But it is impossible to be a disciple if you didn't recieve salvation first.
And there is no condition to recieve salvation other than the recognition that you need it. Your deeds will verify wether you truly recieved salvation or not (which is how I understand the passage in James that you reference), but they are not the condition.
Just look at the man who was crucified next to Jesus; He was given entry to paradise on one thing alone: He begged Jesus to remember him once he ruled in heaven. He had no deeds to show for, he was a criminal, deservant of death by his own admission. Yet his faith was real nontheless. So James can't be talking about what it takes to recieve salvation, but about what defines living faith after recieving salvation.
We are talking about those that aren't christians yet in this context, not about those who claim they are and are living in sin (that's a different topic). And for those that don't know Jesus yet (the group that a church should want to attract, since we are supposed to be the light of the world), recognition of the need for redemption is all it takes.
God bless you brother Greg for not playing God with the lives of other’s. 🙏🙏
Amen!!!
I don't know a graceful way to say "this is rubbish."
Perhaps I missed this but how do you square your teaching from "Twisted Scripture" dealing with women not teaching or having authority over women when you pointed to Galatians and said our primary identity is no longer based on our gender or social status but that the passage says our new identity is solely in Christ? You said there is neither male nor female as concerning gender distinction. Isn't it using this same argument you make for scripture not meaning to bar women from being in authority over men because it was specific to the Ephesian culture and the overarching principle is oneness in Christ that Matthew Vines uses in "God and the Gay Christian?" Why is there no gender distinction when it comes to women as elders but there now is when it comes to same sex marriage?
If Greg Boyd is reading this: when you say that Jesus wouldn't make the sins of the tax collector illegal, are you implying that financial fraud should be legal (since that was what the tax collectors did)?
I would be curious on your logic for this, whether you say yes or no.
didn't he write a whole book about Christians not getting involved in politics? Of course, if it blends with his political views its fair ground.
God hate sin,let us lean and try to all live a righteous life.psalm 24 vs 3 says who can,ascend into the hill of the lord,he DAT has a clean hand and a pure heart.
So the church is never supposed to call a sinner to repentance? What Bible are you reading?
I am so confused by this message. He sounds like he is for homosexuality and against gay marriage amendment and then he votes and then said you can't judge???? when you vote you just cast your judgement. This guy is so confusing to me.
He doesn't vote-- He doesn't begrudge anyone from doing so--he simply believes in the seperation (or not mixing ) of the two Kingdoms.
"Doesn't physis teach you that if a man has long hair it is shameful [atimia]?" -- 1 Corinthians 11:14. Paul uses the EXACT same Greek phraseology for same-sex (or at least male-male) intercourse in Romans 1:26-27*
Boyd knows this, but he never mentions it. Yes, there are other passages that could be discussed, but for now I'm just focusing on the Romans passage because I find Paul's issue with long haired men to be fascinating.
(* which is arguably about cultic sex rituals anyway... rituals involving male-male sex, which is para physis and atimia).
Hello. I do not see what hair length has to do with this. Long hair are in no way as "shameful" as gay marriage.
This man is truly anointed!
How can u tell
Anointed by satan
Jesus said, "Go and sin no more" when He was led to by Father God. He did not tell everyone to repent all the time. He only did what He saw the Father doing. Eventually, people will come to the point where they are willing to do God's will, if they are saved. For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure. He may use us to confront sin, like Nathan, but let's be led by the Holy Spirit and be HUMBLE when confronting sin in a believer - not self righteous.
That verse is of questionable historicity. You ought to base your case on a more solid foundation.
Solomon, do you believe the Bible to be inspired of God? I just need to know where you are coming from. Either way, I still think that confrontation of another brother or sisters sin needs to be done in humility and gentleness - not in self righteousness or thinking you are better than that person.
Sarah Vogel
My convictions on the inspiration of the Bible are irrelevant. If we are to trust the words, they must be trustworthy. Words that do not appear in the oldest manuscripts are not AS trustworthy.
Solomon Parker Yet, they reflect God's character perfectly in this case, I believe. Jesus does tell the woman caught in adultery to sin no more. Yet, he does this only after she is sure of his love for her. Jesus stands against those who wish to condemn her and execute her, which according to the law is what she deserves. Yet, Jesus is merciful and does not condemn her. Jesus does not condemn her sin! That is the gospel if ever I heard it. After saving her life, Jesus sanctifies her, not before.
True, that your convictions of the inspiration of the Bible are irrelevant, but that is not to say that whether the Bible is or is not the inspired word of God is irrelevant. It is relevant.
suckyskiz
I would tend to agree, but my faith is in Jesus, not the nature of the inspiration of scripture. So I'm not going to bank my theology on verses that may have been added later. That comes from a modern western post-enlightenment mindset the writers of the Bible certainly had no knowledge of.
So sin is greater than any other. All sin is sin.
Jesus says if we love him we will keep his commandments. That means All sin must stop. When we become New in Christ we go and sin no more. We Repent, we confess our sins to G-d and go and sin no more.
Yes we will stumble and fall, but being Christians Jesus will catch us and set us back on the right path.
So even the homosexual can come to Jesus, repent and be saved. But they can't continue in a homosexual relationship. If they can't become attracted to the opposite sex, then they should abstain from Sex altogether. In Scripture, "Take up thy Cross and Follow me." --- Whatever your Cross to carry, Carry it with prayer for help daily and Sin No More.
Do not judge those that stumble. We as Christians are suppose to help each other in our struggles to let go of sinful ways.
Matthew 15 :14, 1 Corinthians 2 :15, Jude : v.4.
May God grant them repentance. God bless.
That was one of the Best Sermons Greg Boyd has ever given! He nailed those truths to The Cross Baby!!! "Homophobic verse clustering" is a childish and satanic strategy designed to exclude some from the Love and Grace of our Lord. 3-5% of any population at any time in history, has always been "Gay". It's part of the diversity of Homo sapiens. Voting "for" or "against" such things is a total waste of time in The Kingdom. Leave Gay
people alone and get on with serving Jesus and doing his will!
"What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. 'Expel the wicked person from among you.'"
1 Corinthians5:12-13.
He did not quote the full verse. There are judgments that are to be made. God give us the grace and courage to do them well.
Sounds like you are talking about an empty church...
Where did Jesus say homosexuality was wicked?
The pastor's (shepherd) responsibility is to preach the full council of the word of God, under the annointing of the Holy Spirit and to protect the sheep from the wolves.
The questions is where do you belong
This guy made a lot of good points. I agree that many Christians elevate the sin of homosexuality above other sins that they then let slide. Abortion and adultery are two good examples. For we see pastors supporting divorce and remarriage, which is adultery according to Jesus.
I see a problem though in down playing the fact that homosexuality is called an abomination in scripture.
He also tries to give the impression that Jesus repeatedly went back to and spent time with great sinners. But this is not the case. For we are never told that Jesus went back to and spent time with people who refused to change after he gave them his original message.
So while it is true that Jesus spent time with sinners, it was so that they could hear a message that they would never hear from the Pharisees. But there is not a single verse that says Jesus went back to them or let them join his ministry if they did not repent and turn from their wicked ways.
He also ignores the passages that say we are to judge righteously and to kick people out of the church if they continue to live in sin.
Jesus attracted sinners who repented and changed their ways.
Did Levi remain a tax collector?
so let me make this perfectly clear.
Corrupt tax collectors and prostitutes who wanted to remain as such and who wanted to continue sinning did NOT "hang out" with Jesus.
It's true that Jesus met them and invited them to walk the narrow and difficult path that leads to the kingdom of God. But he did NOT "hang out" with them if they chose not to repent and change their ways for the same reason that he did not hang out with Pharisees who refused to repent.
Bragging about the number of unrepentant gays in his church is not a good sign.
TrustinJC I see what you're saying. Years ago I would have said the same and thought I was being reasonable. But for me, if I still thought this way, I know I wouldn't be loving. I'd just be intellectually right in my mind. That said, and I mean no disrespect, I think Greg's point is more about judging against homosexuality and homosexuals while the church is full of sinful people who have "christianized" their sin. Gluttony? Pride? We have unrepentant Gays in my church. Neither our pastor nor Greg Boyd tell them it's just cool, or okay. But we treat them with love hoping they will see the light. And while, yes, we can kick people out of the church, Paul also said just after, that we can forgive them also. It's not a command. And doesn't love "keep no record of wrong"? Today's culture is vastly different than ancient ones and if we've found new ways to work with others in love, I fail to see the problem. Either way, a quick study on the word "abomination", shows that the English word is much more severe in it's meaning than any of the Hebrew, Latin or Greek counterparts. Not saying it isn't a sin, but it isn't necessarily held up as worse, or somehow more hideous than eating shellfish, stealing, or any number of other sins. It isn't more reprehensible than murder, and yet prison ministries are all the rage while ministering to homosexuals is still seen as somehow bad, especially if they don't immediately repent.
An abomination? It's interesting that we all point to that word and that verse in context of homosexuality. Jesus' strongest language about sin came in Matthew 5:21-26 when he says that when his followers label another a "fool" that they are in danger of "the fire of hell." Or, in Matthew 18, Jesus declares that those who cause children to stumble (I think that there's a good case Jesus is talking about pedophilia here) would be better off if they drowned themselves in water.
As a woman who was gay for 30 of her 53 years, this man is lying to you. He is DANGEROUS! The church is for believers, not sinners! We are to go out and make disciples, not bring them in to leaven the whole batch with sin! I cannot allow my ears to be tickled with this nonsense. Jesus died for my sins, and He, as my Savior, has given me a new heart and spirit. My spirit wants NOTHING to do with sin, of ANY kind. Do I make mistakes, of course, but I do not consciously disobey!!!!! So when I hear people like this, who is a wolf in sheep's clothing, I shudder at how many he has misled. Tell me where in the Bible it mentions major or minor sins? The Bible doesn't say major and minor...that is man trying to justify sin. That is this man playing word games with you, because the god he serves likes to play these deceitful games. Ask Eve about the game he played with her! Born Again is not living in your sin. He has no idea what leads to a reprobate mind, because he he is lost, leading the lost, to the edge of a cliff. Romans 1:26-32 EXPRESSLY STATES HOMOSEXUALITY IS THE SIN THAT CAUSES A REPROBATE MIND. In other words, the sin that leads to other sins such as murder! Please, wake up!!!! Find a Bible believer pastor like Charles Lawson or Robert Breaker and submit fully to the will of God!
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
You are not being contextual with the words of Jesus when you speak of the passage about seeing a speck in your brother's eye - and here lies a great portion of your error -
[
In another speech you made against the sovereignty of God - you made big issue on considering the context - then you went on to contradict yourself when speaking of the potter and the clay and tried to directly compare humans with God by stating that the potter in Jerimiah 18 forms the clay and does so as responding to the clay as if it has a mind of its own and you stated that God had no choice but to respond to the clay's own determination - WHAT HERESY ! -
[
In this case of seeing the speck in your brother's eye - you ignore the context and all the passages of the bible that command us to bring sinful practices out in the open and rebuke our brother and you wrongly assert that we have no good reason to mention any sin we see because Jesus asked the question - why do you see the sin in others when you do not notice your own sin ? - NOW COMES THE CONTEXT
[ Luk 6:42 (ESV)
How can you say to your brother, ‘Brother, let me take out the speck that is in your eye,’ when you yourself do not see the log that is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take out the speck that is in your brother's eye.
[
The context clearly emphasizes that Jesus is not telling you to ignore other scriptures about bring sin to light and rebuking your brothers - He is talking about hypocrites who do not recognize their own inability to conquer their evil ways - but they think they are righteous enough to help conquer the evil in someone else
[
The truth of these verses is magnifying the truth of God's sovereignty by showing us that - in the same way that we cannot conquer sin in our own life - we cannot do it for our brothers
[
Can a leaper change his spots ? No - and a sinful man cannot stop sinning - ONLY the spirit of God can restrain sin -
[
So when we finally realize that we cannot lean on our own understanding and power to overcome sin in our own life and we realize that ONLY the grace and power of God is responsible for every good thing - including the restraint of evil in our own life - then we understand what Jesus is saying
[
If you understand that only God can take the sin out of your life - then you understand that only God alone can take the sin out of your brother's life
]
However if you don't understand that - and you wrongly think that you can remove the sin from your own life - then you are a hypocrite and you wrongly think that you can point to the sin of your brother and tell him that you know how to help him get the sin out of his life -
[
that is the fallacy of free will thinking - it is human centered
[
God made Adam perfect and when Adam sinned - every person from him except Jesus was a lump of clay that had their own corrupted mind against God - no difference between one lump or the other - there were not some lumps better than others - they all have gone out of the way because there is none that seeks God
[
God could be perfectly just and let every singe one of us continue in corruption on our way to hell - just like before the flood everyone killing each other etc . - and God would not be responsible for any of their sin .
[
can a bitter spring bring forth sweet water ? can a leopard change his spots ?
[
no and a corrupt lump of clay cannot have a good thought or understanding of anything good because goodness is spiritual and the natural mind cannot understand anything spiritual - so no one has ears to hear or eyes to see because they are dead in trespasses and sin
[
no one would ever hear or see the truth UNLESS God acted first - to take the corrupt lump of clay and CHANGE it
[
Romans 9
[
remember don't just look at a verse or two and then make a big humanistic speech about it thinking you know what the bible teaches when you ignore the greater context
[
also - don't twist the context to what you want it to be and contradict yourself and teach heresy by saying God has to mold the clay the way the clay wants to be molded
[
you read romans 9 then you claimed it was a lie
[
you rightly stated that you don't worship a God as defined in romans 9 - because you don't want God to tell you what to do - you want your own god that has no choice but deal with you according to your own inclinations
[
such is the fallacy of human centered religion - free will
[
the only true religion is God centered and it specifies that everything good comes from God and God does everything good - God shows His power and His glory by everything He ordains to come to pass
[
you spoke about how you could not imagine to give God glory if anything bad happened to your children
]
have you considered what God ordained to happen to His Son ?
[
if God can bring the greatest glory to Himself by ordaining the the death of His Son at the hands and by the actions of dirty rotten lumps of clay - He can bring glory to Himself by anything and everything that He ordains to come to pass
[
that is the full context of the bible
[
read it again
[
I can't speak for everywhere in the United States or other countries, however I personally know some pretty awesome Spirit filled churches that are totally LGBTQ affirming .. so much so that they just happen to be some of the leading ministries sought out by people around the country. As a gay man, I can't even imagine going to a church where I am "tolerated" or accepted until I am what that particular church believes is God's Word.Will for LGBTQ people. Indeed ... ALL of us who are in process of transformation come to know that (as one of my Spiritual Directors told me) "It's an inside job" If there are LGBTQ people who are willing to be tolerated "until the change comes", it's not my job to make their decision ... however, I could never be at home at a church like yours, no matter how good your other teaching is.
We are all sinners but the difference between a saint and a sinner is we get up again 🫣
Really? You are either a saint or a sinner… because they are 2 opposite ends of the spectrum,
Did you watch the video?
At 5:05 to 5:10 - "Though at most it's mentioned 3 times in the O.T. and 3 time in the new". Actually it mentioned in many places throughout the bible. OLD TESTAMENT: Genesis 13:13, Genesis chapters 18 and 19, Leviticus 18:22, 20:13, Deuteronomy 23:17, Judges 19:22, 1 Kings 14:24, 15:12, 22:46, 2 Kings 23:7, Ezekiel 16:49-50. NEW TESTAMENT: Romans 1:26-27, 1 Corinthians 6:9, 1 Timothy 1:10, 2 Peter 2:6-7, Jude 7. Also Deuteronomy 22:5 refers to the abomination of cross dressing which transgenders today practice.
+camp parson's sunday school Those passages aren't about same sex relationships. You are conflating two issues.
What sort of sexual relationships are they about then?
+camp parson's sunday school Cross dressing has nothing to do with being gay. There are only 6 verses that remotely address homosexual sex.
Are you gay or a homophile?
+camp parson's sunday school Nope-- I have been happily married to my wife for 23 years. As a passionate follower of Jesus-- I simply think it's important that we be accurate when we make statements regarding scripture. Grace and peace to you!!
Jesus chose Paul to be an apostle for the church, Paul is quite clear on sexual sin and how wilful sinners should be admonished and if no repentance should be forbidden fellowship with the brethren to avoid the leven levening the whole lump. Jesus came to fulfil the law, just because many churches are morally weak weak with many of its congregations doesnt mean thats a model to just accept. If the churches do not hold up a standard to aim for then the church will dissolve into an amoral mess. Jesus said to the cripple ....sin no more.
Dr Boyd is a refreshing voice in this issue.....thank god.... he is WELL EDUCATED (Yale, Princeton) and writes 1500 page scholarly books...and can be this loving and compassionate teaching CORRECT theology about Jesus. This needs a million likes. If you don't understand his theology- read some more-- its all there. He is really on point. No hypocrisy and for goodness sake. HE IS NOT A LIBERAL either. :)
This message really spoke to me. I've been wrestling with how we as Christians approach gay people lovingly. This has helped immensely. I have 2 gay sons who I love more than my own life and I'm immensely proud of. I don't want to dilute scripture but I know love is the overriding message. I finally feel like I'm getting somewhere with my struggle.
lmao just tell them that what they're doing is wrong from a Christian point of view, but u love them anyway.
@@gulanhem9495 Gay teenagers commit suicide at 3 x the rate of other teenagers because of the judgement (and hatred) they feel from other humans. I am not trans and do not choose to be, but 250 trans women are murdered every year because of the judgement and hatred they live under from others. None of us need your approval for what we are, nor do you need my approval for whatever you are.
We can believe in Jesus power to set us free from what He calls sin...we don't have to and cannot persist in rebellion if we're going to call Jesus Lord. Jesus asked, "Why do you call me Lord and not do what I say?" He also said, "Not everyone who calls me Lord will enter the Kingdom of Heaven...only those who do the will of my Father will enter."
This is one of those issues that is not simply a political issue. It is fully a Christian, as in we follow and obey the Word of God, issue.
+Eric Newport Obeying God is loving all scandalously as Jesus did for us on the cross. We love-- Abba has the rest under control.
You are right! It's not a political issue but a spiritual one! We are dealing not with flesh and blood but against principalities ....against spiritual wickedness in high places! Ephesians 6:12
+Jesus Lives I agree--we don't address this through mixing the two Kingdoms. We do through loving, serving, and sacrificing for the world. Hearts get changed when they see Jesus in us.
Kevin Thomas, love the Lord with all your heart is the greatest commandment. The second greatest is to love your neighbor as yourself. You are right that Christ showed us that love on the cross. However, if we truly love someone you will tell them the Truth. Truth is not subjective. Truth is that homosexuality (just like other sins in the Bible) will keep us from Christ. In 1 Corinthians 6 all these things are listed. But you know what is not listed? Many in the gay community like to give this issue the same traction as racism or sexism. What is not listed in the many lists of sins is race, sex (male or female), tall, short, etc. if I were to tell the homosexual that they need Christ and in Him turn from their sin then I would be the most hateful person of all. I would be condemning that person to hell if I did not attempt to share that truth.
So to truly show them Jesus in us we must be like Christ and share the same gospel he came to proclaim. Not the gospel of existentialism.
+Eric Newport Indeed if we are in relationship -- we should hold each other accountable. If not--we love, serve and sacrifice till we build that relationship. When the time comes...be prepared to be called out on your "stuff" as well. BTW--Jesus is the Word of God ...the Bible is scripture...which drives us to Him.
I plan to add more later when I have more time. But I have one immediate observation: the problem is not so much what Greg says, as what he doesn't say. He doesn't say that homosexual activity is wrong, plain and simple. Yes, of course, the church should open wide its arms to sinners, but it should also teach them what sin is, and that "without holiness no one will see the Lord." The current zeitgeist is like a freight train running over the biblical view of homosexual activity as sin. If we are to be faithful to the Lord, it seems we must affirm (kindly and with great compassion, of course) the Holy One of Israel's standards of sin and righteousness,
I think he didn't say that because it's been said enough. I work in a secular environment where one of the first questions my boss asked me was if I hate gay people. Greg is telling us to focus more on love than constantly pointing fingers at the sin of others like the Pharisees did.
the time of kindness and great compassion are OVER! War means put it away and have NOTHING to do with it. You cannot be nice and convert anyone. The HOLY SPIRIT can but REPROBATES will NEVER be saved! GOD gave them over to a reprobate mind to do those things until they destroy themselves. this whole generation is turning reprobate. better not "PLAY with GOD like this so called pastor is doing!
Greg, Is being gay a sin or not?
If gay means happy, then no
God / Jesus calls us all to repentance. No one should expect to enjoy church attendance or experience Gods peace, love or joy of salvation if they’re continuing to sin unrepentantly. Consider what Jesus himself said in Mathew’s gospel, chapter 11...
“Then began he (Jesus) to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not:”
21 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.
22 But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you.
23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
24 But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.
Matthew 11:20 KJV
www.bible.com/1/mat.11.20.kjv
This sadly confused person (Boyd) needs to read Matthew 11... and listen to Jesus abraid cities which failed to REPENT.
he went to some sort of gay movement event, and he said it FELT RIGHT to him? is that how we judge truth by how it feels? we are sinfull people living in a sinfull dead body, a body of flesh that wants!! to sin. And we are to judge truth by how we feel? he could not be more wrong!!!!, we are to judge truth, not by how we feel, but by THE WORD OF GOD!!!
Jared, trust me, if you have watched any of Greg Boyd's other videos or listened to any of his sermons you would see the reason he says his blood pressure gets high over this is because he believes people should be fighting for/against many of the things you listed. Greg Boyd truly does have a heart for those least of these.
he says being gay is no worse of sin than being an adulterer...then why would he say he is happy that more and more gay people have been attending woodlan Hills and why did he not say that he is happy that more and more adulterers are attendending he church... seeems like he is legitimizing their ie. "hamartia" "missing the mark" "sin" is something to be proud of....he speaks out of both sides of his mouth to be accepted with the "cool" people of the world.
What he said, about fear is the crux: If fear is ruling your actions, you have a problem. God hasn't given us a spirit of fear...fear is torment...Conservatives afraid of Obama, liberals afraid of Trump....if you are a Christian, fear should not be ruling you. Get into the Word, pray without ceasing, let God deal with your own personal transformation in Christ. When you spend your life conscious of Him and HIs power and grace in your life, whatever you do is not ruled by outside forces, but by His Spirit. We are all lost, as Christians and non-Christians, without His mercy and grace. (We as Christians are supposed to be the reflection of Him in this world...Ambassadors. And non-Christians know we are His by our love for one another... John 16:35. There is more light reflected from us when we allow our own selves to be transformed than by walking into a voting booth to "vote morally". We, indeed, need to get our priorites right. There will be no voting booths in Eternity...but there will be Love and His Glory)
There is a lot to like about Greg Boyd personally as well as his theology and this talk. He's excited and passionate about Jesus Christ and that's a good thing. He seems to be a genuine, loving, compassionate, decent person who tries to emulate Christ in everything. He's got a great sense of humour.
Around 1:30 Greg says that "neither this nor any other political issue deserves a whole sermon". What would the scriptural basis be for this? Just curious. Something tells me that Greg would not have a problem preaching about comprehensive immigration reform or, during the 1950 and 1960s, against racist segregation laws. During the 1940s, would he have joined Dietrich Bonhoeffer and spoken out against Nazism? Maybe I'm wrong and Greg would remain silent on these issues. Maybe due to his pacifism he wouldn't plot to assassinate Hitler but preach against Nazism in his church? I have a hard time believing him that he wouldn't speak in his church on political matters. Given the books Greg has written, he doesn't seem shy about sharing his view on politics or right-wing policy positions. I could be wrong. Although he doesn't come out and say this directly, the underlying tone is that Jesus/God supports left-wing policy prescriptions, especially as it relates to the military, immigration, socialism, etc. Again, I could be wrong.
Around 2:20 Greg says that God's ideal for marriage is a union between a man and a woman committed solely to each other. It misses the mark, as does, he says, divorce and adultery, polygamy, lust all miss the mark. That is where Woodlands Hills stands. I agree. However, is it just that it's not ideal like murder is not ideal or like murder, is it a sin for which a person should repent and change course? Or, is that not important?
Around 3:15 Greg says we are all sinners. That's true. As he says, Christians should be humble and not judge others. Fair enough. However around 3:30 he goes on to imply that those who believe the Bible deems homosexual sexual relationships as sinful believe that this sin is worse than others. He lost me here. A person can believe any sin is sin but not see one was worse than the other in God's Kingdom. On earth, I would argue that murder and rape are worse than cutting/budding in line. For years, including in the Bible, some sins are punished more severely than others. We don't give murderers a few months in prison and shoplifters 25 years. This doesn't make church goers any superior or less needing Christ's grace. Christian communities should make it clear that those inside are just as broken as those outside. It should be widely, consistently, and publicly acknowledged that our churches are not holy country clubs but more like AA meetings. Christians should drop the masks and admit that they struggle with sin just like those on the outside. Yes, Christians should first take the planks out of their eyes but that doesn't mean they should be silent about something the Bible describes as harmful. Soft-peddling ANY sin, including our own, in the name of inclusiveness, does no one any favours.
At 3:30, he talks about the church repenting about the way it has sinned toward gay people throughout history. Again, where is the scriptural admonishment of Christians to repent of other people's sins? If I sin against my brother, is it my great-grandchild's responsibility to correct and apologize for? Where does Jesus recommend group guilt? Has the church not also scapegoated divorcees? Adulterers? Thieves (see Les Miserables)? Murderers?
Around 4:30, Greg is talking about idolatry - the idolatry of having more than you need when there are others who have less than they need. Hoarding is idolatry. Really? Can something be wrong on its own without being idolatry? This is where what Greg says sounds very much like 'liberation theology' (which itself is political) and some might wonder whether we are getting into the territory of fetishizing socialism or making poverty a virtue. Yes, it's true that the Bible and Jesus warned against greed and being indifferent to the suffering of those around us. Over and over again, Jesus points His followers to sharing and helping as did the Good Samaritan. With a few exceptions, however, deciding how much to share was often left up to the individual. There is no blanket declaration that all must sell what they have and give to the poor. I'd be curious to know what Greg finds incorrect about this video:
ua-cam.com/video/i9EXnVitkmo/v-deo.html
The church should, and does, warn against the LOVE of money. Or greed. Or thinking that, due to our wealth, power, or success that we have no need for God. This despite the fact that He said "the poor would always be with you". Jesus could have wiped out poverty during his ministry but he didn't. He didn't ask His followers to either. He advocated sharing, compassion, care, help etc. and left it up to His followers to decide how much. There is no HOLY amount. What's interesting is that most people don't consider themselves rich. Rich is what people are who make slightly more or have slightly more than they do.
Around 5:00, Greg talks about how often something is mentioned in the Bible. This doesn't seem persuasive. How often is murder mentioned in the New Testament? How often does Jesus mention murder? Not much. It's assumed in his teaching. One would think it to be self-evident. How often did Jesus mention bestiality? Or rape? The number of times something is mentioned does not seem to indicate its relative harm or benefit to the individual or society nor would it seem to indicate its importance. How often does Jesus talk about the Golden Rule or the Greatest Commandment? How often are either mentioned in the Bible? It would seem loving God with all one's heart, soul, and mind and one's neighbour as oneself would be everywhere in the Bible and in Jesus' teaching. It's not mentioned that often, and yet Jesus identified it as most important. All the rest is commentary, he said.
Yes, Jesus attracted and hung out with those who the religious people looked down on. So His followers should as well. Point taken. However, Jesus told those who he did not condemn to go and sin no more. So he didn't prevent their sin from keeping him from befriending them but because He loved them, He didn't want "to leave them that way." He wanted to heal them and make them healthy. When a doctor soft-peddles a cancer diagnosis, she doesn't her patient no harm. She does him no good by condemning him for his lifestyle choices that lead to the cancer.
At 7:30, Greg says Christians should be the last people on the planet that tell others what is sinful. Does that rule out confessing sin to one another? Did the Woman at the Well ask Jesus to point anything out to her? Did that stop Jesus from telling her which of her behaviours were hurting her? Doesn't seem like it.
It seems that Jesus was pretty clear about identifying self-destructive, unhealthy, harmful, and yes, sinful behaviours. The difference was the loving way He did it. With the exception of religious leaders, he didn't condemn. He befriended them. He loved them. He valued them. He redeemed them. He included them. That's what His followers should try to do as well. Not act holier-than-thou. Not single out one sin for special condemnation. Befriend. Love. Value. Include. Yet, at the same time, at some point, the church has to be clear about whether its leadership can be living in open sin.
I believe scripture, despite what some fellow Christians like Matthew Vines believe, teaches that homosexual sex is a sin and separates from God. However, I don't think the government should criminalize it just as it doesn't criminalize common-law partnerships or pre-marital sex. In return, I believe Christians should not be forced to celebrate that which they believe is not God's ideal.
Come on, Greg. You compared Christians who want to "call out sin" to "The Taliban". ...a group that blows themselves up and cuts off peoples heads with a knife. That argument is absurd at best. I love your sermons. I am surprised and stunned by this statement. .coming from you. Your logic and path of thought has always been impeccable. Seems to me. ..that you were willing to call Christians terrorists in an attempt to love gay people. That is really messed up
the government has no right in the marriage business
Preach
Hey Stetzlaff94, who made you the foremost expert on theology? Just because you disagree with Greg doesn't make him a heretic.
Disaster! False teaching! Yes we should not judge those outside the Church but must not tolerate constant sin inside! Be discerning, brothers and sisters!
Who is discriminating against anyone? And how so?
Exactly what did he say that was "cowardly"? Was he inaccurate somewhere?
We can not all agree with the message your opinion though
Did the woman in the letter say to imprison homosexuals? I hear a lot of dodging of the issues in his remarks. One simple question is homosexuality a sin? Did the prostitutes that followed Jesus continue in their sin? Did the tax collector continue to steal while they followed Christ? Did he not tell the woman discovered in prostitution to go and sin no more. He never justifies the sins of his followers by simply loving them. It's his love that requires them to abandon their sin with his power. The way you talk you downplay confrontation of sin and elevate the embracing of staying in their sins. He never answers the question if homosexuals who claim to be believers should continue in a sinful lifestyle. I doubt that Nathan was sinless when he confronted David regarding Bathsheba. Ezekiel says the blood of the people will be on the watchman if he doesn't warn them of the coming of impending danger. Greg, this is a complete dodging of the issues. You make a sin virtuous by condemning and vilifying someone who has been commanded to confront it. No one said the person confronting the sin is more pure than the brother being confronted. that's a cheap dodge of an important and sensitive issue. Shame on you for treating it so cliche and cheaply. Your intellect knows better.
Very well said! Society as a whole and now even many in our churches are embracing Greg's attitude toward homosexuality and other sexual sins. It is now 11 years since Greg preached this message. Has this love, love, love attitude caused homosexuals to abandon gay marriage and come to Christ? Or have they become more militant and demanding of our acceptance of their lifestyle? If we are truly going to be ambassadors for Christ, we must certainly love them but call them to repentance. They will never be saved otherwise.
You cannot have a ministry of reconciliation without a call to repentance and faith in Christ - without a call to turn from sin and embrace the one who can empower you to overcome sin. All else is mamby pamby mushy acceptance of sin.
jesus ministered to sinner's so as to convince them why they should turnaway from sin. not to make them feel comfortable in their sin
Yes. He MINISTERED to them. He did not reject them. That was and is Greg Boyds point. Love them without confirming their (or our!) sin.
And Greg’s point he has brought up again and again is that politics are not the Christian’s tool to ”stop” people from sinning. That was the pharisees and saducees tool.
Thank you
That doesn't mean for one second though, that they shouldn't be punished severely for their crimes and incarcerated!
Jude 1:4 For there are certain men (such as Greg Boyd) crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
whats wrong? didn't your ears get scratched? so you're saying if your itch is not scratched the message must be false?
Don't get me wrong, I understand what he is saying...but much of his argument for not "legislating morality" could also be used for murder...or pedophilia.
Mike Honaker This message says exactly the opposite of what you are claiming. Greg's stand against mixing Christianity and politics lost his church a whole bunch of people. Everything he does calls down new wrath from the American religious elites. He's not scratching itching ears, he's speaking truth as he sees the scripture tell it and drawing the ire of the pharisees. This is not new.
He's spilling his water while thanking God for the "increasing number..."
I would agree with your main points . We live in a nation governed by secular laws , while we who are religious have the right to engage in political questions ; believers should NEVER have access to state power .
So this is where Bethel gets its heretical theology. BGC needs to kick this guy out before he spews more heresy than he already had.
And the devil sits back and laughs. The fact that you say there are openly gay people in your congregation and you won't tell them the truth. Hell is real and these people need to know the truth. Tickling there ears just to grow your congregation does No one any good. Eternity is serious business. God's word never changes. Do your flock a favor and tell them the truth.
Wow awesome I really love the that
Pont well put Tom. Is it loving to condone a gay lifestyle in the body? Greg is an intelligent person, so why all the logical fallacies in this sermon? Is he mistaken or is there another reason?
“gay mariage” is not simply a political issue, its a moral issue and pastors should speak on it
Standing for the sanctity of marriage does not equate to judging others for their sin.
Sorry sir, we are not sinners from the moment we stop practicing sin. Repent and walk in it. Practicing sin makes one a Sinner.
Jesus forgave the woman taken in adultery but he didn't stop there; He told her to stop committing adultery. He told her to repent of her sin and stop doing it. If someone has been truly saved; truly born of the Spirit of God, it's because, under the convicting power of the Holy Spirit, the sinner sincerely confesses and repents of his sin and receives God's grace through faith in the death and Resurrection of Jesus. From then on, the Holy Spirit continually works through love, to bring the truly self-denying, cross-carrying disciple into allignment with God's Word and will. This dying to self demands the continual placement of the heart upon God's altar of sacrifice and it involves intense pressures of many trials and testings and requires the disciples deepest trust that his Heavenly Father will conform him to the image of the Master. God bless and Shalom.
Spot on pastor Boyd! "Yes."
Sorry folks, but I urge you to stay away from Greg! He is too weak to speak out against wickedness like we are supposed to do, and he also supports Gun Control!
While yes it is true that we are not called to judge those outside the church as that is God's job, what of those who clame to be believers, and are openly gay? Are we not called to confront them? And I realize that many "Christians" are living in the flesh and in sin, but their sin is not in the open and can not be delt with until its brought into the light, Ephesians 5:1-7 speaks of how people living in fornication (any sexual sin) will have no inheritance in the kingdom of God, and that we
There's a big difference between supporting people within the struggle of repentance of sin (which first requires the Spiritual gift of discernment that comes through true faith in Christ) and being accepting of sin either passively or actively. Boyd, by seemingly identifying serious sin as somehow too common place and prevalent within the Church to be spoken out against, is a sign of spiritual passivity in speaking the truth of what it means to walk in Christ, in Faith and in Love.
After all, Apostle Paul never shied away from condemning serious sin publicly even if it offended those in the Church that were actively involved in that sin. Paul never feared that by speaking the truth that it would drive people away from their faith, quite the opposite, Paul hoped that professing the truth would bring Christian's into salvific faith through repentance, not run away from it. Paul even abandoned people to Satan who would not repent of their sins. I would look to The Apostles and Paul as to how to handled a public profession about homosexuality in society. That's not what Boyd did here in this video, unfortunately.
But Boyd's had similar issues of error regarding other sexual sins related to pornography and fornication so it seems clear there's a hole in his understanding of the God's truth surrounding the expressions of sexuality. He's not the best one to go to for Godly understandings about sexual expressions within salvific faith as his teachings on these subjects have a distinctly worldly tinge to them.
I see a lot of comments on here saying this mans teaching isn't right, or he's a coward and so forth. I would just like to say the church is for the sinner and the saint. Most of us who are saved I'm pretty sure got saved in a church. Before that we were sinners sitting in a church and through the love of Jesus we seen in the people and the grace of the word that was we went to get saved. So this man having Gays in his church to experience the love of Jesus through the people and here the Grace of the gospel is ok with me even if takes a month or years before they forsake their sin Homosexuality.
The problem is that he is the shepherd of his flock and he is leading them down a cliff to hell! The leader must be stern and direct! The new age movement teaches just about God's love and that's all they teach! They forget God's wrath and his judgement. We can not obey just a portion of his law. Obedience is all or nothing at all! Yes we should be accepting of homosexuals and show our love but he has to show that he has the balls to teach his flock what it takes to be a born again Christian and that means giving up their lifestyle. So far he hasn't done that! The second point is that you say you are saved? How do you know? Once saved, always saved is a false doctrine also! It is the devils doctrine from the Calvinistic view so pray about your own shepherd (pastor) as he may be leading you and your congregation down a cliff?
+Gunporn 69 Obedience is all or nothing but there isn't one christian who has achieved that, we are sinners saved by grace and we all still sin. Sanctification is a process and takes time it is different for each person. I've seen people get saved and delivered from some things all at once, but most have to work on their stuff and over time through prayer and forgiveness things start to fall off. Yes once saved always saved is false and there's many more false doctrines out there.
Yes but should we not speak out when you know I and I know people are being led into the wide and broad path because they are following a different Jesus from whom we believe in? The false prophets who comes in the name of Jesus such as the John Hagee's, Benny Hinn's and Joel Osteens who are paving a path for the son of perdition! This preacher is of the new age movement and not of our God because all new age preachers preach the God of love and tolerance! I have seen too many of their kind as I was raised as a Buddhist, studied different cults, religions and sects before I became a christian. My only spiritual gift is of discernment. Mike, the time of tribulation is upon us. We must endure trials as tribulations will become more and more difficult for us Christians! Yes it will be the Grace of God that we may endure. As you know I do not believe in OSAS but I believe in Post tribulation rapture. Jesus did not come to bring peace but a sword! Matthew 10:34. Although eschatology is my favorite subject, there are many signs indicating the beginning of the tribulation period! " Thou (plural) therefore (indicating a serious lesson to learn) endure hardness (a commandment) as a good soldier of Christ Jesus! (Comparative)" 2 Timothy 2:3
+Jesus Lives I don't know this pastor or his life I only know his message, but since I have ministered to many adults with addictions and the like I agree with his message. I also believe in post trib. I don't think this guy preaches tolerance, I think he preaches love which also confronts sin. Just because he does not run the gays out of church does not mean he accepts their lifestyle, is the church not for the sinner to come and learn of the love God has for them. Is it not God's love that brings us to repentance (Rom 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?). Yes Jesus didn't come to bring peace but he commands us to love people and hate sin. We are to love even the the homosexuals.
I truly believe that many of our church's have been taken over by such groups as the gay agenda, not to repent but to bring down our christian faith a piece at a time! I have seen so many church's fall to accommodate this Political Correctness! You must have seen the United churches, with the female ministers marrying gay couples in the church! They are making a mockery of our faith and laughing at our Lord Jesus! I guess I wish that there were Christians that would stand up for His word and not preach a "lukewarm" sermon to accommodate the few and only to be spit out of the mouth of God. I understand what you are saying and you are not the only person who strongly believe this! I get it, but a wedge in the church will only divide us and we all know what happens to a house that is divided? Did God not say that he gave them up like animals as a reprobate? I believe a reprobate mind is beyond redemption, an unforgivable sin! So why pay so much attention to them when there are so many other people out there that needs ministering to? Because the media, and the gay agenda will play its card, calling us out! Eg. Say something about the Jew and you are an Antisemite, say something about the blacks and you are a racist! Say something about homosexuals and you are not a christian because you don't love them like everyone else! These will be the days of tribulation Mike and it's only going to get worst when they unite all these so called churches into a one world religion to pave the way for the Antichrist! I am going to take the path that is hard. I am and will be hated because of my love for Jesus! I don't want to take the path where I am a popular preacher where I please everyone alike and not to offend! That is the easy route, they wide path to destruction!
Wowwww a pastor who understand religion - how refreshing
Wow, nope.
We can,t forget Paul. If it,s good for Paul it,s good for all. It is up to Christians to help a fallen brother and sister regardless of their faults. Why are you going to Church?? It is a place for redemption and forgiveness of sins. We can,t treat Church like a Culture Club or any kind of Club.
"Judging always drives them away." Is that why Peter said that Israel killed Jesus and had to repent, lest they be destroyed by God in Acts 2 and 3? Is that why Paul said the Athenians had false gods and will be judged by God unless they repent? Is that why Jesus told sinners to sin no more? Isn't that judging? This fluffball Christianity has nothing to do with the New Testament.
These comments are fascinating and revealing. So many people revealing they are afraid to love those they do not understand like Christ loved, and have made idols of their heterosexuality.
I think he's generally correct here. Evangelicals spend more time pointing the finger than cleaning up their own act. The sin of the Laodicean church was their being lukewarm about Jesus and those things close to His heart, preferring instead to rely on their wealth. Greg Boyd seems quite passionate about Jesus as well as helping the poor. To all those comparing Greg Boyd with the Laodician church, please show evidence of this.
AMEN brother!
How true is the message
Ben, interesting response again but could please clarify your last statement - "Not only that, his boundaries for sexual activity doesn't change for Caster". Sounds like to me that you're suggesting that the "Rules of Monogamy" would apply to her situation. And if that's the case... then you are trapped within your own argument! Or you might be suggesting that an isolated exegetical interpretation of a particular verse, somehow allows you to assess the sexual intentions and motivations of
The bible doesn't extensively address the sin of sexual child abuse either, but I dare Mr. Boyd to tell me that this is not an egregiously worse sin than over-eating. There are indeed degrees of sin measurable by the magnitude of the harm they tend to cause. Some sins are more injurious than others, whether the bible speaks of them often or not. Mr. Boyd often does a merry dance around certain issues, as a matter I assume of wisdom in addressing culture. But it is frustrating at times.
The difference between a saint and a sinner is the saint gets up again. :-) Good stuff!
Timothy Cameron getting up!!!! Yeah I like the idea to get up every morning after having anal sex with that boyfriend I met at the church... what a kingdom of God isn’t it.
Nice message
calling sin a sin is judging; no real christian will say adultery, having idols, sex outside of marriage is okay
My beef is that he says in the clip we welcome "gay folks" here..it would have been good to clarify "just like any other sinner...adulterers, fornicators, liars, thieves- sinners are welcome here.because we believe when they come in contact with Jesus in an intimate way and understand the signicance of his sacrifice- they will be transformed from the inside out and be able to overcome through His gracewhich empowers up to transitioninto & partake of the divine nature.
The real question here in a aforementioned example is - Does someone like Caster Semenya or (others born with similar physical conditions or god given attributes) actually need “healing” as you’ve stated in your last post (?) If you are psychologically and physiologically born with a condition then how is it a “sin” ??? Obviously, I’m am not conflating here the general “Sinful Nature” that we are all are born with but rather those things that are not a matter of our choice, or lifestyle, etc.