7:00 IMO the focus should not be on God's 'intelligence' alone. His omnipotence is also a component. If you face a situation where you are not only unprepared but also incapable the uncertainty carries with it a genuine risk of failure, possibly catastrophic and tragic. But this is not the case with God. God is fully prepared, and fully capable regardless of what the future holds and it presents no threat to him or his plans. That is the biggest view of God I can imagine.
I just have to chuckle at how we try to apply our perceptions to God. The whole thought process of "God knows the FUTURE" is applying our experience INSIDE the universe that God created for us to live in. TIME is a dimension INSIDE this universe. God exists OUTSIDE the universe - so there is NO TIME dimension to God's experience. There is just IS (why God calls himself I AM). We - as humans bound by the Time dimension in this universe - cannot understand how God would percieve all the events of our existence from OUTSIDE TIME. I don't know - but I DO know that it would be radically different - and because for God there is no before and after - only NOW - his "knowing the FUTURE" is a meaningless concept. Interesting - this "open theism" concept is what I had forumulated on my own - didn't know it had a name. But I guess I'm not that smart - so I should have figured smarter people than me would have come up with this....
God knows all of it...however people, mere mortals...do not, why...is either people are not ready for the information or God and religion is false. (I am just listing multiple scenarios of why we don't know. 😅)
"And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I. And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me." Genesis 22: 11,12. "And thou shalt remember all the way which the LORD thy God led thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble thee, and to prove thee, to know what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or no." Deut 8:2.
this is the best explanation of the abrahamic god’s omniscience i’ve heard yet. i see it as as someone watching a rat maze. one person knowing all the ways the rat could go because of their knowledge of the maze, but not knowing where the rat will choose to go.
Proverbs 16:9 A man’s heart plans his way, but the LORD determines his steps. Proverbs 16:33 The lot is cast into the lap, but its every decision is from the LORD. Man’s plans are his, but it is up to God whether they happen. Outside of the plans of free willed beings, randomness does not exist. Isaiah 55:8-9 (HCSB) “For My thoughts are not your thoughts, and your ways are not My ways.” This is the LORD’S declaration. “For as heaven is higher than earth, so My ways are higher than your ways, and My thoughts than your thoughts.”
@@leonardu6094 I guess you’d say the same for this… Proverbs 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge; fools despise wisdom and discipline.
@@theidolbabblerthedailydose33 Dismiss? I did no such thing. Cautioning you against making doctrine out of a poetic passage isn't telling you i don't care about the book or it isn't important.
@@Adrian-xu3xi who knows how it works? Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who, being his counselor, has instructed him? Someone else might ask, Why would God put that second Tree in the garden to even allow for the possibility of sin? Ultimately, you're asking about the problem of evil. ie Theodicy. What matters is that TODAY he tells you (and me), "choose this day whom ye will serve." We have a choice. You're not responsible for anyone else's bad choices. Ezekiel 18:19-20 You are responsible for what you choose to do, and whom you choose to follow. How these mysteries resolve is as inscrutable as the EXISTENCE itself (why should there _be_ anything?). But you have a choice, so do I. I think you know that's true.
This video is a clear example of seeking to understand Scripture while applying eisegesis principles. That is to say that someone first has a preconceived idea or hypothesis and then they go to the Bible to try to find a verse or verses to support their presupposition. Mr. Boyd's introduction states that "perhaps even GOD doesn't know the future?' Do you serve an uninformed god. He also states in the opening introduction that for God to not know the future "does not downgrade GOD and GOD'S omniscience for GOD not to know what cannot be known. To state that GOD is "omniscience" and yet purport that GOD "doesn't know the future" is a great example of and oxymoron. The word omniscience is defined as "to have all knowledge or to know all things". Webster's dictionary defines it as "having infinite awareness, understanding and insight". So either GOD is omniscient and therefore infinitely knows all things or he cannot be omniscient because of the things that HE does not and cannot even know. This assumption by Mr. Boyd that GOD cannot know all things would indicate that like humanity, GOD is in the dark about some things. This is an apparent attempt to define the attributes of GOD from an anthropocentric viewpoint. Since he is declaring that even an omniscient and omnipotent GOD cannot possibly know all things, this would naturally lead some to question any prophecies found in the Bible including the prophecies found in the book of Revelation. Because all prophecies deal with predicting future events which GOD can easily do and does do. Once anyone begins to question GOD'S abilities and begins to place certain limitations on GOD abilities then who determines where to stop applying these inabilities upon GOD. Who has the authority to place any limitations on our CREATOR. This was part of Paul's argument in Roman's 9. According to adherents of this "open theism" we now have the created[clay] determining what THE CREATOR[POTTER] can and can't do. Throughout the Bible you can find verses declaring that GOD is omniscient with no limitations. And that HE is omnipotent. This is what makes HIM GOD. Acts 2:23 "this man, delivered up by the predetermined plan[omnipotence] and foreknowledge[omniscience] of GOD'". Now here are some verses that clearly declares GOD'S unlimited power/authority and GOD'S unlimited knowledge/omniscience that men like Mr. Boyd would completely deny even though you can read it clearly for yourself in any Bible. Ephesians 1:4-5 "just as HE chose us in HIM before the foundation of the world that we should be holy and blameless before HIM in love. He predestined us to adoption as sons through JESUS CHRIST to HIMSELF according to the kind intention of HIS will[or HIS good pleasure]". Now note the phrase "before the foundation of the world". Spin these verses as one may, here GOD HIMSELF declares that HE intentionally chose those that would be saved[omnipotent] before the world was ever created[omniscience!!! Here is another to consider. Acts 13:48 "And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of THE LORD; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed" Now note the order described here. That is they made their professions of faith as a result of GOD'S work of grace [Ephesians 1:1-10] in appointing them to salvation. The Gentiles were first "appointed to eternal life" and after they were "appointed" by GOD[omniscience] to eternal life" then they "believed". 1 Peter 1:1-2 "...who are chosen,[omnipotence], according to the foreknowledge[omniscience] of GOD THE FATHER,". The Bible literally has dozens of verses to support this fact that GOD is the one that initiates and carries out our salvation as HE "CALLS" us to salvation. Study it for yourselves. Get yourselves a good concordance and study up on how many times the following words appear in the Bible. Appointed, calling, called, chose, draw, draws, elect, granted, predestined, etc. Study for yourselves. Don't totally rely on some person to tell you what you need to know about the Bible. Remember!! 2 Timothy 2:15 applies to all bona-fide Christians. "Be diligent to present yourself approved to GOD as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, handling accurately the word of truth."
The terms 'omnipotent' and 'omniscient' are Latin terms not Biblical ones. God is never called 'all powerful' in Scripture, though of course he is called 'Almighty'; perhaps there's difference here. It's clear that God cannot do anything he wants to do: for instance he cannot do things that contravene his own character and he cannot do the illogical. C.S Lewis points out that God cannot make a 3-sided square, because such a term is mere nonsense, and simply placing the words 'God can' in front of that phrase doesn't make it any more possible. In Genesis 6:6 says 'The LORD regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled.' If God foreknew that man was going to sin and that he was going to regret creating him, why did God create man? God clearly wants everyone to come to know him as saviour, redeemer, father, and friend. We read in 2 Peter 3:9 that “The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.” God does choose or elect some people for salvation and others for damnation; such a God would be a monster, creating people he foreknew would go to hell and then sending them there. That is NOT a God of love. God gives people the ability to choose to follow God or not; free will means nothing if people do not have this real choice. The terms 'election' and 'calling' are IN Christ. This is incredibly important to understand. We are not 'elected' INTO salvation, but 'called' or 'elected' to a purpose IN Christ. Please read the Scriptures carefully! The example above given bysuggsuggs7878 is good example of this: Ephesians 1:4-5 'For he chose us IN him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight.'
So god doesn't know the future because it's not possible to know the future but because god is so intelligent god does know the future even though it's not possible to know the future. Got it.
We are having a fundamental discussion about the essential nature of God and yet no Scripture is even quoted. What I hear in all of this is a deistic type of worldview. If God is not in ultimate control it would seem there is no security, everything is dependant on me. That is frightening. And thoroughly unbiblical. Rom. 5:8-10 says that we were enemies with God, yet in His love, He sent Christ to die on our behalf to bring us back to Him. That means that we do not move towards Him on our own. Ephesians 1-3 and especially 2:8-10 speak to the reality that our faith doesn't originate with us, it is a gift from God. Jesus said in John 10 that all that the Father gives Him will never be lost. What an incredible comfort! I struggle with sin and unbelief at times, and my one comfort is not that "I can do it," but that Jesus will not let me go. I've not heard Boyd discuss this passage, but it would appear that according to this worldview, Jesus doesn't know what He is talking about. Apparently, Jesus doesn't know that there are all sorts of possibilities, so there is no way that He can know that none of His sheep will be lost. Boyd has elsewhere said that "God needs you" to pray and to act for His Kingdom. If God needs us, He is not God. At least not the biblical one true God. This is a dangerous theology.
From my understanding of Boyd's belief, God knows the possibilities of the future, and prepares for them all, including your actions. In this way, you are secure. Its like setting up guns around all sides of a fort. God doesnt know for sure which side will be attacked, but he has secured all sides. I dont entirely believe this, but it is reasonable and doesnt negate your security in Jesus Christ. As for "God needs you", Boyd means that you must accept Gods promptings to do his will, as He cannot make you do it. If you are willing, he will make sure that you have the ability and strength and resolve to do his will. To clarify, it is not your burden to try to do His will, He will work on your heart until it comes naturally.
Why quote Romans 8:28 and not the very next verse? Romans 8:29 -"For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers." It's my opinion that God actually knew me before the foundation of the earth, not just the "possibility" of me. No matter what, there will always be mysteries far beyond the grasp of our intellect and I don't believe this issue to be one effecting salvation. However, if you believe that your salvation is the work of God and you have assurance of that salvation, is not the scope of your will already somewhat limited? Or would the open theist just claim that there is no possibility of a true believer to turn away from and blaspheme God?
Certainly it is probable that probability is certain therefore all is settled even if it seems as if there are probabilities because it’s already certain is Gods mind. That’s how he wants us to understand it.
6:00 The non-Calvinist sometimes claims his God is 'bigger' than John Calvin's because he does not "need" to meticulously control every molecule to accomplish his will, even though he could if he chooses. And creatures with genuine freewill pose no threat to a truly sovereign, omnipotent Creator. Ironically, however, he also fears his God would be 'smaller' if he doesn't know the future which does not yet exist. But if God is said to somehow exist outside of time, and see the future "as if" present in the 'eternal now', it must exist and therefore have been determined, and if not determined by God, then by whom? It would seem to me that a non-Calvinist being afraid to consider God may not have Exhaustive Foreknowledge of the future because it makes him somehow 'less God-like' is actually the kissing cousin to the Calvinist's argument in favor of Exhaustive Devine Determinism and their contention that God must control every molecule 24/7 or he is not God.
look at it this way. you can play a virtual reality game. there are many variations of the game . but after you unplug the game . the outcome is the same. such is life on earth. god knows about many possible fututes maybe infinite possibilities. but once the game is unplugged its back to beginning. game is put back in cabinet.
the end of this wicked age is certain; but how we arrive there (our personal choices, particularly that of who choose to live for God and who doesnt) - is open. perhaps we have free will among our actions and possibilities until that time when he declares Judgement day - he chooses when the end is; that doesn't mean every single step of every single person is pre-destined and planned ahead of time.
@@kristenm3261 So Kristen, does god know what you will do in the future or is it open? because the bible seems to know with great detail what will happen in the future. You can call it "open" from our perspective on earth, but it seems to be definite from God's persective, and I agree, how the future was arrived at was not determined by god but was decreed by god.
@Brian Bachinger A mystery can not be an outright contradiction. How God was going to reconcile the gentiles is a mystery. Proposing that God knows the free actions of his creatures before they freely act is a contradiction. Do you actually find the book of Revelation to be a detailed account of the future? Is it not more like a symbolic portrayal of the structure of the future? This applies to prophecy in general. Saying the wicked will be destroyed, for example, is merely connecting evil to its natural consequence. Which people will be the wicked who are destroyed is absent from such "detailed" prophecy.
My belief is that God has PARTIAL knowledge of future events. For example, God might know that a major world war will take place in the year 2032; but he doesn't know precisely how it will come to pass or who the key players are. The book of Revelation is a certainty, but the exact details of how it will play out in reality are yet to be known.
Open theism attempts to address God’s justice in relation to human actions, an aspect which Western Classical Theism is argued to overlook by implying a lack of true autonomy. However, open theism risks diminishing God’s sovereignty by portraying Him as subordinate to time and uncertain about future outcomes
I suspect many people before and after me arrive at this following view. I found no formal term, so for lack of a better word I will simply refer to it as "Dynamic Omniscience" or "Possibilitism" Dynamic Omniscience posits that God is intimately engaged with the past, present, and future, understanding all possible outcomes of free willed agents. This view maintains that humans, created in His image, are genuine free agents. While their actions unfold within the scope of God's sovereign will, they are not deterministically bound by it. This allows for true freedom within God’s omniscience, affirming both divine sovereignty and human agency. This view maintains that: 1.God is outside of time: God is transcendent, not bound by temporal limitations, existing before and beyond time. 2.God is unchanging in essence: While God partakes in temporal events and responds relational to creation, His nature remains immutable. 3.God's knowledge of possibilities is complete: God knows every possible outcome and every possible choice that could be made. 4.God's knowledge of actual choices is sequential: God sees and knows choices as they are made in time, which means His experiential knowledge of human decisions is temporal and unfolds as humans enact their free will. 5.God’s relational engagement: Despite His transcendence, God chooses to engage with creation in a real and responsive manner within the temporal realm. On God's Exhaustive Foreknowledge: God, as an infinite being in the past, possesses a comprehensive understanding of every conceivable outcome within the vast expanse of potential events. To Him, these myriad possibilities appear as a unified sequence. No deviation in the course of events escapes His observation; the plethora of choices available are trivial within His infinite grasp, and no choice surprises Him. His foreknowledge extends across all possible futures, leaving nothing beyond His anticipation. He delights in engaging with His council of angels, allowing them to exercise their agency and wisdom within His divine plans. In the present, God remains intimately aware of all developments within His creation and participates actively according to His sovereign will. His awareness and involvement are seamless, reflecting His omnipresence and dynamic engagement with the universe He has made. Looking to the future, God, as an infinite entity, transcends time. He perceives the unfolding of future events as though they have already occurred, including how His created beings exercise their free will, which He has graciously bestowed upon them. Despite His comprehensive foreknowledge, God does not dictate the choices of His agents. The unfolding of events, already known to Him outside of temporal constraints, does not compromise the genuine agency of His creations. By His sovereign choice, God has endowed His creations with dominion and autonomy, ensuring that His foreknowledge does not impinge upon their freedom. Thus, by His own free will, He preserves the free will of His agents intact. On God's Immutability and Timelessness: As an infinite being, God embodies an infinite array of possibilities expressed singularly through his persons. The myriad ways God can express Himself appear as mere variations within His eternal, unchanging presence. He remains constant, as His multitude of expressions coexist within His everlasting essence. God’s unchanging nature is consistent with his temporal relational dynamic interaction with his creation. God has a sovereign free will of his own choosing and responding to events does not change his nature. On God’s Sovereignty and Control Over Events: As the infinite creator, God has meticulously crafted every aspect of existence and its potential unfolding. He intimately knows how each element may behave and how all things might interact. Given this, why then does God grant dominion to His creations over the world He has made, if such dominion were merely illusory? If every action were strictly orchestrated by Him, then their reign and defiance would ultimately be His own contrivance, making any act of rebellion or evil merely a pretense of dissent against Himself. While God is sovereign over all creation, He does not author sin or coerce will. Instead, He permits a measure of autonomy within His creation- a necessary withdrawal that validates free will without diminishing His ultimate authority. This selective recession of direct control is a deliberate act of sovereignty, affirming both the reality of free will and the moral responsibility of His creatures.
The view of Dynamic Omniscience / Possibilitism hinges on the presupposition that divine foreknowledge of human decisions necessarily negates genuine human agency. If God made humans and know how they in detail will act before they act, then God also set in motion the elements that lead humans to act as they act. God thus becomes the author of their agency, their actions and their sin.
If you are a theist who believe ALL things are possible for an ALL powerful god, and he knows ALL then how do you resolve the absolute timeline which is known, and omnipotence because since the timeline is known, god has no possibility to change it since it is an absolute timeline?
I think this is a good argument against the idea that the future is settled. It seems that if it's settled then even God could not change it then God can't be considered to be free.
What do you find interesting? Getting an answer from someone about something he cannot possible possibly know anything about? An answer that differs from person to person because none of them know anything about what they speak? It's not even a hypothesis. Rather it is just verbal diarrhea.
@@alltimeislikethepresentI agree with you that Mr Boyd's view does not comport with Scripture, but it seems that different people have different criteria for 'disliking' YT videos. But then... obviously you're free to click that dislike button. Also obviously: God knew you would dislike it. ;) cheers
@@alltimeislikethepresentP.s. given the subject matter here, your username is very interesting. All time is like the present to God. The Lord sits above it all, every bit of it, even over time itself. This is how he declares the end from the beginning. For all things are naked and *opened* unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. I guess you could say I hold to "opened theism." :D
Isn't the popular view among modern physicists "B Theory of Time" more consistent with the first 3 options more so than the open theism view that these guys seem to prefer? Sort of ironic.
If God exists outside of time it takes care of his omnipotence (though he may decide not to act on it)omniscience and omnipresence. Molinism seems a better fit.
@@goobadooba1967 Well, if you mean books on A-theory of time and such, there is a collection of papers called "Einstein, Relativity, and Absolute Simultaneity"; but most of the papers are pretty technical, and they don't all focus on this exact issue. One option for an easier read would be William Lane Craig's "Time and Eternity", but that does tend to lean heavily in a theistic direction. Maybe try one of his lectures here on UA-cam about theories of time, or his interviews on Closer to Truth?
God does not settle the future, but he knows everything because God is a field of energy, a concatenation of Information and Order. Life on earth unfolds in superposition states, and humans play a role because they have to choose. As medium consciousness, we are persons like God himself, equipped with judgment and reason. We have desires, and we make decisions. However, we cannot choose outside of the existing Information which permeates, pervades, and penetrates everything in the universe. God is one-way (yes and amen), while humans are two-way (yes and no). Notice that Information continually props Order, but Disorder impedes the process. It is Disorder that brings into the equation the other way.
Interesting. Boyd makes an articulate and thought-full case for how he understands things to be, but the reality is that I beheld all the work of God, that a man cannot find out the work that is done under the sun: because though a man labour to seek it out, yet he shall not find it; *yea further;* though a wise man think to know it, yet shall he not be able to find it out. What we can know, tho, are those things which God has revealed to us. And he said, I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none _like_ me, -sui generis- declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure. I'm well aware that Dr Boyd is well acquainted with the above verse, but that his theology interprets it differently. I'm also aware that sometimes God's kids are called simply to believe the scripture's plainer statements, not to theologically interpret them. Many theologians of all stripes, from Calvinist to OpenTheist, would be wise to be converted and become as little children. If we are to be as children, then when our Dad reveals things about himself, we ought to simply take him at his word. Just to know, Thus saith the Lord. The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever... How can God know every last detail about tomorrow? How can all things be naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do? I do not and cannot know. But I try to trust what he's told us and to be content like David that such knowledge is too wonderful for me, it is lofty: I cannot attain unto it. Neither do I exercise myself in great matters, or in things too high for me. But surely I have behaved and quieted myself, _as a child..._ All of us have imperfect, even distorted views of God, but may he bless us anyway as we seek him.
So man have the power to determine realities, his libertarian freewill is established and God responds, can be manipulated....This is a theology of man, the underlying force behind it that appeals to man's freedom! ]
We don't have free will if we did there's some things in Daniel and Revelations i would like to change.Where is your free will when you get cancer or arrested or Fired and if you say well that's not what free will is then what use is it,thought process only? Where is the power in your will?
Just as we can choose to close our eyes for a time to deprive ourselves the information our eyes would otherwise enable us to take in, so also could God, as the theoretical Creator, choose for a time to not use Its ability to see the future. In our case, the reason could be to block out intense light or dust, or to sleep. In the case of God, it would be to refrain from interfere with free will.
Why? When I read the Bible there's no place that I see that says that God knows every detail about everything in all eternity from now. I don't disagree that maybe this is what it practically looks like - but what if there's more mystery to what we've traditionally have been taught?
For 1 our "traditional" teachings are designed to support the existing "system" and is designed to condition the human "psyche" with affirmations of common misperceptions that have helped "steer" mankind into the civilization of today......MOST of what you "know" (believe) comes from these deeply rooted religious misconceptions such as "FREE WILL" ( which simply CANNOT exist within THIS reality) and eternal "salvation" ( ANY form of infinite existence is 100% impossible) "GOOD" and " EVIL " "RIGHT" and " WRONG " ALL HUMAN perceptions and are of absolutely NO significance to THIS existence as well as irrelevant to the reality of the ultimate TRUTH......oh yeah there's a LOT MORE "mystery" to the actual TRUTH than the average human could EVEN accept....let alone KNOW.....THIS is because of the "veil" of human misperception you've been "conditioned" to see everything through in order to have the ability to "accept" what you believe as reality.....THESE misconceptions were a lot MORE necessary for earlier human mentality and OBVIOUSLY MANY have never really evolved beyond it because they are STILL following ancient and outdated systems like "Judaism,Islam,Christianity,etc" and WON'T accept the TRUTH of reality but would rather have "faith" in a misperception that makes them feel better ( what they've already been conditioned to accept)...... Logic would OBVIOUSLY dictate the VERY FIRST rule of reality.....if THIS entire universe around us is NOT even "FREE" itself and IS in FACT bound by certain law's and principles that govern THIS reality of existence and IS(itself) obligated to adhere to and maintain these very laws and principles in order to even exist itself within THIS reality.....THEN HOW can anything within it possibly claim to be "FREE" of OR from it?.....everything happens for a reason ( NO action is "FREE" ALL are reactionary response to ANOTHER predetermined and previous "action") .....EVER since the" BIG bang " the universe has "reacted" ( STILL IS expanding lol) but the "BIG bang" itself was ALSO ANOTHER reaction to ANOTHER predetermined and previous action....and so on....and so on.....NO FREE WILL not even freedom of choice for YOUR options(same as MINE) will ALWAYS be limited to a number of different "variables" such as DNA ,monetary status,social skills,geological location,etc,etc and though humanly impossible at THIS time COULD STILL be predicted by a higher intelligence due to the FACT there will ALWAYS be a limited number of possible outcomes based upon these predetermined variables.....nothing we do is FREE....everything happens for a reason......ALL actions are REALLY REACTIONS to OTHER predetermined REACTIONS.....THIS is FACT.....lol
If there is an outside conscious entity that created the universe, how can we know what he intends for the universe, what he used to make it, what level of control he has over it.....perhaps God cannot intervene at all and can only observe. The God theory of the universe is pretty broad. He may not have created the universe at all, and merely interacts with it, maybe going between multiple universes. The idea of an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent god is one of the least likely, and least possible of theories on the nature of God.
'God" has a 100% ability to predict the future as action and reaction, especially with ALL material thing only affected by gravity, and even more so with sentience within a "CLOSED" system. Dominos once pushed, if set up the right way, will fall accordingly with the first push. "God" doesn't even need to interfere, as he set the dominos up. Free will exists only within a closed system.
How does it follow that if God created, he exhaustively knows the future of his creation? Is it possible for God to create a world that is free, where creatures have freedom to act according to their own will, in which he can’t know the future exhaustively?
It's fascinating that people still read the historical fiction that is the bible and think they can have some certainty about this hidden all powerful being who wants to love you but you have to love him first. The authors of the bible preyed on the common desires nearly all people have. The desire to be known, loved, cared for and understood are all possible with a personal god who existence can never be disproven and who only really cares if you love him and his son (no ladies in this monotheism). I understand there is a lot of money in religion, it's just surprising that so many people take it so seriously. I guess the same could be said of sports and countries. Humans seem perfectly happy to believe whatever they want without ever considering the fact that these lies fit so neatly into their desires and fears.
Mendicant Bias I think your assessment of Christianity is quite shallow and unsophisticated. The idea that the Biblical authors invented Christianity to prey on people's emotions is hardly true. The New Testament authors for example had seen the resurrected Christ and his miracles and professed this eyewitness account when they preached the gospel. And all of them were literally tortured and murdered for not merely what they believed but what they had seen with their own senses. To go that far to create/preserve a lie or a fake religion seems hardly plausible.
"Humans seem perfectly happy to believe whatever they want without ever considering the fact that these lies fit so neatly into their desires and fears." including your comment :)
In the name of God, the infinitely Compassionate and Merciful. Praise be to God, Lord of all the worlds. The Compassionate, the Merciful. Ruler on the Day of Reckoning. You alone do we worship, and You alone do we ask for help. Guide us on the straight path, the path of those who have received your grace; not the path of those who have brought down wrath, nor of those who wander astray. Amen.
Open Theism is an interesting concept but I am not sure that God just knowing all the *possibilities* is enough. Why do we need God for this when we have machines that can reach this abilities or at least in the future.
No, throwing away the prophecies is not an entailment of Open Theism. Many (most?) of the prophecies tell us HOW God knows what's going to happen: He specifically tells us WHAT he's planning on doing. Even the difficult ones such as naming people before they are born can be explained under Open Theism. I've noticed in total 9 people in the Bible named by God, 5 of them before they were born... it's easy for God to get people to name their children what he wants: Named by God before their predicted birth: Mahershalal-hashbaz (son of Isaiah), Josiah, Cyrus, John (the Baptist), Jesus Named by God after their birth: Jedidiah (Solomon), three children of Hosea Besides those there's another 4 at least (if you don't count Samuel) who were said to be known by God from before birth (doesn't say before conception) or promised by God that I can think of -- all of these can be accounted for by Open Theism: Isaac and Samson (promised before conception), and David and Jeremiah (known from before birth in the womb). Anyway, it's well within God's power under Open Theism to know people from the womb and even name kings and prophets in advance of their conception.
I wd like sir RLK of closer to truth to explore the questions from episode "how cd god know the future" that he had done with William lane Craig.I wd like RLK to put the thoughts n explanations of WLC from that episode to other experts.
but how is this discussion any different than wondering if santa knows the exact route he is going to take to the houses of those who have been nice and not naughty? ...and if he knows in advance who the naughty kids are going to be anyway. theology is 100% baseless and fantasy-based philosophy, untethered to reality, but pretending one special brand of make believe is legitimate for no good reason whatsoever. to the extent these questions have a basis in philosophy, it is all outdated, pre-science, and no longer relevant.
Kaushik Kam ooooh nice -you did some homework. i am flattered! you might do a little more research, yoga has plenty of legit benefits that don't require any supernatural claims!
But some of the fundamentals knowledge about God that He is not bound to time... Are you sure you are interviewing a professional and not a layman?? These kinds of people that make our head as Christians bound our heads in arguments like that of Ahmad Didat...... You should name yourselves so that I can say I do not belong to such people.
In the name of God, the infinitely Compassionate and Merciful. Praise be to God, Lord of all the worlds. The Compassionate, the Merciful. Ruler on the Day of Reckoning. You alone do we worship, and You alone do we ask for help. Guide us on the straight path, the path of those who have received your grace; not the path of those who have brought down wrath, nor of those who wander astray. Amen.
AllGodsMyth actually that's not true. You are speaking only about the Christians. The Jews have a Torah that is identical to the oldest one ever found. They agree about God.
No molinism says that god knows all possible worlds and what we would choose then actualize that world while open theist say that god created the world knows all past and present but bc we have free will the future is open and isn’t set til we chose with what ever choices is in front of us so like we get presented with choice a b c d and e and e has 2.5% while b has 72.5% I can freely choose e and let’s say I do that would lead to other possibilities that I can choose which then shapes the future of my life but molinism is that god saw all this and chose a world where he saw all possible worlds weather I could be born in bc time or 1000 years from now but chose this reality
This guy houd just listen to himself. First you dream up a "god" then you explain everything by defining "god" any way that supports your position. Religion, especially "one god" religion is a cult of power and nothing what-so-ever about salvation or anything else. There are no gods, there is lust for power.
Frank you do great job but give us favor DO NOT INTERVIEW with Theologian. All of them demagog we we looking for true we don't want to hear from liars!
So… On The Open Theist position, God does not know for certain who will be born 1 year from now. He is as much in the dark on that as all of us are. Furthermore, He has stood back for thousands of years and watched Billions of people reject Him and go to the Hell He created and instead of shutting everything down and stopping everything, He just lets it all continue. .......... And how is the Open Theist God anymore moral that the Calvinist God or the Arminian God or the Molinist God ??
@Jon Irrelevant to my comments. As I wrote … So… On The Open Theist position, God does not know for certain who will be born 1 year from now. He is as much in the dark on that as all of us are. Furthermore, He has stood back for thousands of years and watched Billions of people reject Him and go to the Hell He created and instead of shutting everything down and stopping everything, He just lets it all continue. .......... And how is the Open Theist God anymore moral that the Calvinist God or the Arminian God or the Molinist God ??
@Jon As I have written … On The Open Theist position, God does not know for certain who will be born 1 year from now. He is as much in the dark on that as all of us are. Furthermore, He has stood back for thousands of years and watched Billions of people reject Him and go to the Hell He created and instead of shutting everything down and stopping everything, He just lets it all continue. Now, seriously, that is the case on Open Theism. The Calvinist God, The Arminian God, The Molinist God, AND The Open Theist God are ALL morally flawed !! The Open Theist God should have shut everything down and stopped everything thousands of years ago. He should have said something like… “ ENOUGH !! I am stopping this and I not allowing anyone else to be born into the earth and go to Hell. “ I am shutting it all down !!! The fact that He has not stopped everything and shut everything down is proof positive that He is morally flawed !!
@Jon Wrong. I am showing you and others who read this that The Open Theist God is morally flawed as is the Calvinist God, the Arminian God, and The Molinist God.
@@TheMirabillis God sends those to hell who dont like Him. I dont really understand whats the problem. For example if someone hates God why would God force him to go in heaven? If you dont like God you definitely wont want to be for eternity with God. So God says to that person "let your will be done" and sends him to hell. Now what exactly hell is and how will people will experience it, we have very little info about it. All I know is that God is a just God and He has chosen the best possible option. That doesnt mean that people which went to hell will go to heaven one day because the Bible clearly says that if you go once there, there is no escape.
There is four views of hell u got the mainstream view of eternal conscious tournament, annihilism basically god just deleted the soul, sperationist(my view) hell is just a separate place from god, and universalism where everyone goes to heaven or that gods love will reach even into hell and everyone will be in heaven, also a UA-camr inspiring philosophy holds to eventual annihilism where hell is u destroying urself from ur desires and me and him both believe u can get out of hell as c.s Lewis puts it hell is locked from the inside and we have free will in heaven bc satan was there and then rebelled with other angels and they fell so why can’t the opposite happen
7:00 IMO the focus should not be on God's 'intelligence' alone. His omnipotence is also a component. If you face a situation where you are not only unprepared but also incapable the uncertainty carries with it a genuine risk of failure, possibly catastrophic and tragic. But this is not the case with God. God is fully prepared, and fully capable regardless of what the future holds and it presents no threat to him or his plans. That is the biggest view of God I can imagine.
I just have to chuckle at how we try to apply our perceptions to God. The whole thought process of "God knows the FUTURE" is applying our experience INSIDE the universe that God created for us to live in. TIME is a dimension INSIDE this universe. God exists OUTSIDE the universe - so there is NO TIME dimension to God's experience. There is just IS (why God calls himself I AM). We - as humans bound by the Time dimension in this universe - cannot understand how God would percieve all the events of our existence from OUTSIDE TIME. I don't know - but I DO know that it would be radically different - and because for God there is no before and after - only NOW - his "knowing the FUTURE" is a meaningless concept.
Interesting - this "open theism" concept is what I had forumulated on my own - didn't know it had a name. But I guess I'm not that smart - so I should have figured smarter people than me would have come up with this....
God knows the future infinitely more than he knows it precisely
God knows all of it...however people, mere mortals...do not, why...is either people are not ready for the information or God and religion is false. (I am just listing multiple scenarios of why we don't know. 😅)
"And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I. And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me." Genesis 22: 11,12.
"And thou shalt remember all the way which the LORD thy God led thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble thee, and to prove thee, to know what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or no." Deut 8:2.
this is the best explanation of the abrahamic god’s omniscience i’ve heard yet. i see it as as someone watching a rat maze. one person knowing all the ways the rat could go because of their knowledge of the maze, but not knowing where the rat will choose to go.
And having a plan or plans for how to deal with every single move
Proverbs 16:9
A man’s heart plans his way,
but the LORD determines his steps.
Proverbs 16:33
The lot is cast into the lap,
but its every decision is from the LORD.
Man’s plans are his, but it is up to God whether they happen. Outside of the plans of free willed beings, randomness does not exist.
Isaiah 55:8-9 (HCSB)
“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
and your ways are not My ways.”
This is the LORD’S declaration.
“For as heaven is higher than earth,
so My ways are higher than your ways,
and My thoughts than your thoughts.”
Pretty bad theological practice to make doctrines out of the poetry we see in Proverbs.
@@leonardu6094
I guess you’d say the same for this…
Proverbs 1:7
The fear of the LORD
is the beginning of knowledge;
fools despise wisdom and discipline.
@@theidolbabblerthedailydose33 What is the doctrine here? And what does this have to do with what i said earlier?
@@leonardu6094
You’re dismissing truths just because it’s from a certain book of the Bible, so I guess you’d dismiss it all by default, no?
@@theidolbabblerthedailydose33 Dismiss? I did no such thing. Cautioning you against making doctrine out of a poetic passage isn't telling you i don't care about the book or it isn't important.
God knows everything future past present nothing escapes God's knowledge I don't think a lot of people understand that my God is all powerful
A lot of people don't, but some of us do. Be blessed.
So why did he create Adam and Eve if he already knew they would eat the apple? We were doomed from the very start
@@Adrian-xu3xi who knows how it works? Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who, being his counselor, has instructed him?
Someone else might ask, Why would God put that second Tree in the garden to even allow for the possibility of sin?
Ultimately, you're asking about the problem of evil. ie Theodicy.
What matters is that TODAY he tells you (and me), "choose this day whom ye will serve."
We have a choice.
You're not responsible for anyone else's bad choices. Ezekiel 18:19-20
You are responsible for what you choose to do, and whom you choose to follow. How these mysteries resolve is as inscrutable as the EXISTENCE itself (why should there _be_ anything?). But you have a choice, so do I. I think you know that's true.
@@AnHebrewChild just say he can’t see the future 💀
@@Adrian-xu3xi I provided a thoughtful reply and you burped up sarcasm and a skull emoji.
worst part is, I bet you fancy yourself a 'thinker'
This video is a clear example of seeking to understand Scripture while applying eisegesis principles. That is to say that someone first has a preconceived idea or hypothesis and then they go to the Bible to try to find a verse or verses to support their presupposition. Mr. Boyd's introduction states that "perhaps even GOD doesn't know the future?' Do you serve an uninformed god. He also states in the opening introduction that for God to not know the future "does not downgrade GOD and GOD'S omniscience for GOD not to know what cannot be known. To state that GOD is "omniscience" and yet purport that GOD "doesn't know the future" is a great example of and oxymoron. The word omniscience is defined as "to have all knowledge or to know all things". Webster's dictionary defines it as "having infinite awareness, understanding and insight". So either GOD is omniscient and therefore infinitely knows all things or he cannot be omniscient because of the things that HE does not and cannot even know. This assumption by Mr. Boyd that GOD cannot know all things would indicate that like humanity, GOD is in the dark about some things. This is an apparent attempt to define the attributes of GOD from an anthropocentric viewpoint. Since he is declaring that even an omniscient and omnipotent GOD cannot possibly know all things, this would naturally lead some to question any prophecies found in the Bible including the prophecies found in the book of Revelation. Because all prophecies deal with predicting future events which GOD can easily do and does do. Once anyone begins to question GOD'S abilities and begins to place certain limitations on GOD abilities then who determines where to stop applying these inabilities upon GOD. Who has the authority to place any limitations on our CREATOR. This was part of Paul's argument in Roman's 9. According to adherents of this "open theism" we now have the created[clay] determining what THE CREATOR[POTTER] can and can't do.
Throughout the Bible you can find verses declaring that GOD is omniscient with no limitations. And that HE is omnipotent. This is what makes HIM GOD. Acts 2:23 "this man, delivered up by the predetermined plan[omnipotence] and foreknowledge[omniscience] of GOD'". Now here are some verses that clearly declares GOD'S unlimited power/authority and GOD'S unlimited knowledge/omniscience that men like Mr. Boyd would completely deny even though you can read it clearly for yourself in any Bible. Ephesians 1:4-5 "just as HE chose us in HIM before the foundation of the world that we should be holy and blameless before HIM in love. He predestined us to adoption as sons through JESUS CHRIST to HIMSELF according to the kind intention of HIS will[or HIS good pleasure]". Now note the phrase "before the foundation of the world". Spin these verses as one may, here GOD HIMSELF declares that HE intentionally chose those that would be saved[omnipotent] before the world was ever created[omniscience!!! Here is another to consider. Acts 13:48 "And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of THE LORD; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed" Now note the order described here. That is they made their professions of faith as a result of GOD'S work of grace [Ephesians 1:1-10] in appointing them to salvation. The Gentiles were first "appointed to eternal life" and after they were "appointed" by GOD[omniscience] to eternal life" then they "believed". 1 Peter 1:1-2 "...who are chosen,[omnipotence], according to the foreknowledge[omniscience] of GOD THE FATHER,". The Bible literally has dozens of verses to support this fact that GOD is the one that initiates and carries out our salvation as HE "CALLS" us to salvation. Study it for yourselves. Get yourselves a good concordance and study up on how many times the following words appear in the Bible. Appointed, calling, called, chose, draw, draws, elect, granted, predestined, etc. Study for yourselves. Don't totally rely on some person to tell you what you need to know about the Bible. Remember!! 2 Timothy 2:15 applies to all bona-fide Christians. "Be diligent to present yourself approved to GOD as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, handling accurately the word of truth."
Brilliant!
The terms 'omnipotent' and 'omniscient' are Latin terms not Biblical ones. God is never called 'all powerful' in Scripture, though of course he is called 'Almighty'; perhaps there's difference here. It's clear that God cannot do anything he wants to do: for instance he cannot do things that contravene his own character and he cannot do the illogical. C.S Lewis points out that God cannot make a 3-sided square, because such a term is mere nonsense, and simply placing the words 'God can' in front of that phrase doesn't make it any more possible. In Genesis 6:6 says 'The LORD regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled.' If God foreknew that man was going to sin and that he was going to regret creating him, why did God create man?
God clearly wants everyone to come to know him as saviour, redeemer, father, and friend. We read in 2 Peter 3:9 that “The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.” God does choose or elect some people for salvation and others for damnation; such a God would be a monster, creating people he foreknew would go to hell and then sending them there. That is NOT a God of love. God gives people the ability to choose to follow God or not; free will means nothing if people do not have this real choice. The terms 'election' and 'calling' are IN Christ. This is incredibly important to understand. We are not 'elected' INTO salvation, but 'called' or 'elected' to a purpose IN Christ. Please read the Scriptures carefully! The example above given bysuggsuggs7878 is good example of this: Ephesians 1:4-5 'For he chose us IN him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight.'
I absolutely agree mate.
This is a dangerous modern day heresy that demonic forces are using to confuse Gods people.
Very good. I agree with this view.
The Great I Am is not limited in TIME. He doesn't have past, present or future.
I am always happy when I see a Closer To the Closer notification come through.
Pretty pathetic
So god doesn't know the future because it's not possible to know the future but because god is so intelligent god does know the future even though it's not possible to know the future. Got it.
I flip a coin, if it is head i win, if not i lose...dont know what will happen, but i know all possible outcomes
God can’t make 2+2=5. How can he know what hasn’t happened yet?
God *does* know the future. He knows it because He has decreed it.
We are having a fundamental discussion about the essential nature of God and yet no Scripture is even quoted. What I hear in all of this is a deistic type of worldview. If God is not in ultimate control it would seem there is no security, everything is dependant on me. That is frightening. And thoroughly unbiblical. Rom. 5:8-10 says that we were enemies with God, yet in His love, He sent Christ to die on our behalf to bring us back to Him. That means that we do not move towards Him on our own. Ephesians 1-3 and especially 2:8-10 speak to the reality that our faith doesn't originate with us, it is a gift from God. Jesus said in John 10 that all that the Father gives Him will never be lost. What an incredible comfort! I struggle with sin and unbelief at times, and my one comfort is not that "I can do it," but that Jesus will not let me go. I've not heard Boyd discuss this passage, but it would appear that according to this worldview, Jesus doesn't know what He is talking about. Apparently, Jesus doesn't know that there are all sorts of possibilities, so there is no way that He can know that none of His sheep will be lost. Boyd has elsewhere said that "God needs you" to pray and to act for His Kingdom. If God needs us, He is not God. At least not the biblical one true God. This is a dangerous theology.
From my understanding of Boyd's belief, God knows the possibilities of the future, and prepares for them all, including your actions. In this way, you are secure. Its like setting up guns around all sides of a fort. God doesnt know for sure which side will be attacked, but he has secured all sides. I dont entirely believe this, but it is reasonable and doesnt negate your security in Jesus Christ. As for "God needs you", Boyd means that you must accept Gods promptings to do his will, as He cannot make you do it. If you are willing, he will make sure that you have the ability and strength and resolve to do his will. To clarify, it is not your burden to try to do His will, He will work on your heart until it comes naturally.
Why quote Romans 8:28 and not the very next verse? Romans 8:29
-"For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers." It's my opinion that God actually knew me before the foundation of the earth, not just the "possibility" of me. No matter what, there will always be mysteries far beyond the grasp of our intellect and I don't believe this issue to be one effecting salvation. However, if you believe that your salvation is the work of God and you have assurance of that salvation, is not the scope of your will already somewhat limited? Or would the open theist just claim that there is no possibility of a true believer to turn away from and blaspheme God?
Certainly it is probable that probability is certain therefore all is settled even if it seems as if there are probabilities because it’s already certain is Gods mind. That’s how he wants us to understand it.
6:00 The non-Calvinist sometimes claims his God is 'bigger' than John Calvin's because he does not "need" to meticulously control every molecule to accomplish his will, even though he could if he chooses. And creatures with genuine freewill pose no threat to a truly sovereign, omnipotent Creator. Ironically, however, he also fears his God would be 'smaller' if he doesn't know the future which does not yet exist. But if God is said to somehow exist outside of time, and see the future "as if" present in the 'eternal now', it must exist and therefore have been determined, and if not determined by God, then by whom?
It would seem to me that a non-Calvinist being afraid to consider God may not have Exhaustive Foreknowledge of the future because it makes him somehow 'less God-like' is actually the kissing cousin to the Calvinist's argument in favor of Exhaustive Devine Determinism and their contention that God must control every molecule 24/7 or he is not God.
Perhaps God is the future!
look at it this way.
you can play a virtual reality game.
there are many variations of the game .
but after you unplug the game . the outcome is the same.
such is life on earth. god knows about many possible fututes maybe infinite possibilities. but once the game is unplugged its back to beginning.
game is put back in cabinet.
So the Book of revelations is not certain?
the end of this wicked age is certain; but how we arrive there (our personal choices, particularly that of who choose to live for God and who doesnt) - is open. perhaps we have free will among our actions and possibilities until that time when he declares Judgement day - he chooses when the end is; that doesn't mean every single step of every single person is pre-destined and planned ahead of time.
@@kristenm3261 So Kristen, does god know what you will do in the future or is it open? because the bible seems to know with great detail what will happen in the future. You can call it "open" from our perspective on earth, but it seems to be definite from God's persective, and I agree, how the future was arrived at was not determined by god but was decreed by god.
@Brian Bachinger totally agree with you Brian!
@Brian Bachinger A mystery can not be an outright contradiction. How God was going to reconcile the gentiles is a mystery. Proposing that God knows the free actions of his creatures before they freely act is a contradiction.
Do you actually find the book of Revelation to be a detailed account of the future? Is it not more like a symbolic portrayal of the structure of the future? This applies to prophecy in general. Saying the wicked will be destroyed, for example, is merely connecting evil to its natural consequence. Which people will be the wicked who are destroyed is absent from such "detailed" prophecy.
My belief is that God has PARTIAL knowledge of future events. For example, God might know that a major world war will take place in the year 2032; but he doesn't know precisely how it will come to pass or who the key players are. The book of Revelation is a certainty, but the exact details of how it will play out in reality are yet to be known.
Open theism attempts to address God’s justice in relation to human actions, an aspect which Western Classical Theism is argued to overlook by implying a lack of true autonomy.
However, open theism risks diminishing God’s sovereignty by portraying Him as subordinate to time and uncertain about future outcomes
I suspect many people before and after me arrive at this following view. I found no formal term, so for lack of a better word I will simply refer to it as "Dynamic Omniscience" or "Possibilitism"
Dynamic Omniscience posits that God is intimately engaged with the past, present, and future, understanding all possible outcomes of free willed agents. This view maintains that humans, created in His image, are genuine free agents. While their actions unfold within the scope of God's sovereign will, they are not deterministically bound by it. This allows for true freedom within God’s omniscience, affirming both divine sovereignty and human agency.
This view maintains that:
1.God is outside of time: God is transcendent, not bound by temporal limitations, existing before and beyond time.
2.God is unchanging in essence: While God partakes in temporal events and responds relational to creation, His nature remains immutable.
3.God's knowledge of possibilities is complete: God knows every possible outcome and every possible choice that could be made.
4.God's knowledge of actual choices is sequential: God sees and knows choices as they are made in time, which means His experiential knowledge of human decisions is temporal and unfolds as humans enact their free will.
5.God’s relational engagement: Despite His transcendence, God chooses to engage with creation in a real and responsive manner within the temporal realm.
On God's Exhaustive Foreknowledge:
God, as an infinite being in the past, possesses a comprehensive understanding of every conceivable outcome within the vast expanse of potential events. To Him, these myriad possibilities appear as a unified sequence. No deviation in the course of events escapes His observation; the plethora of choices available are trivial within His infinite grasp, and no choice surprises Him. His foreknowledge extends across all possible futures, leaving nothing beyond His anticipation. He delights in engaging with His council of angels, allowing them to exercise their agency and wisdom within His divine plans.
In the present, God remains intimately aware of all developments within His creation and participates actively according to His sovereign will. His awareness and involvement are seamless, reflecting His omnipresence and dynamic engagement with the universe He has made.
Looking to the future, God, as an infinite entity, transcends time. He perceives the unfolding of future events as though they have already occurred, including how His created beings exercise their free will, which He has graciously bestowed upon them. Despite His comprehensive foreknowledge, God does not dictate the choices of His agents. The unfolding of events, already known to Him outside of temporal constraints, does not compromise the genuine agency of His creations. By His sovereign choice, God has endowed His creations with dominion and autonomy, ensuring that His foreknowledge does not impinge upon their freedom. Thus, by His own free will, He preserves the free will of His agents intact.
On God's Immutability and Timelessness:
As an infinite being, God embodies an infinite array of possibilities expressed singularly through his persons. The myriad ways God can express Himself appear as mere variations within His eternal, unchanging presence. He remains constant, as His multitude of expressions coexist within His everlasting essence. God’s unchanging nature is consistent with his temporal relational dynamic interaction with his creation. God has a sovereign free will of his own choosing and responding to events does not change his nature.
On God’s Sovereignty and Control Over Events:
As the infinite creator, God has meticulously crafted every aspect of existence and its potential unfolding. He intimately knows how each element may behave and how all things might interact. Given this, why then does God grant dominion to His creations over the world He has made, if such dominion were merely illusory? If every action were strictly orchestrated by Him, then their reign and defiance would ultimately be His own contrivance, making any act of rebellion or evil merely a pretense of dissent against Himself.
While God is sovereign over all creation, He does not author sin or coerce will. Instead, He permits a measure of autonomy within His creation- a necessary withdrawal that validates free will without diminishing His ultimate authority. This selective recession of direct control is a deliberate act of sovereignty, affirming both the reality of free will and the moral responsibility of His creatures.
The view of Dynamic Omniscience / Possibilitism hinges on the presupposition that divine foreknowledge of human decisions necessarily negates genuine human agency.
If God made humans and know how they in detail will act before they act, then God also set in motion the elements that lead humans to act as they act. God thus becomes the author of their agency, their actions and their sin.
Brilliant. This is the truth we live out as well. We live as if possibilities are real.
this is our lesson just today. our minds are just just finite unlike God infinite.
If you are a theist who believe ALL things are possible for an ALL powerful god, and he knows ALL then how do you resolve the absolute timeline which is known, and omnipotence because since the timeline is known, god has no possibility to change it since it is an absolute timeline?
I think the simple answer would be: God knows that which we do not.
I think this is a good argument against the idea that the future is settled. It seems that if it's settled then even God could not change it then God can't be considered to be free.
I like " it's not logically possible for god to know sth that is not yet settled."
Actually a very interesting and good video.
Why the dislikes? you don't agree with it doesn't mean it is bad.
What do you find interesting? Getting an answer from someone about something he cannot possible possibly know anything about? An answer that differs from person to person because none of them know anything about what they speak? It's not even a hypothesis. Rather it is just verbal diarrhea.
Exactly. I don't agree with Boyd's view but he described it masterfully. Thumbs up from me.
_"Why the dislikes?"_
Because it is bad.
@@alltimeislikethepresentI agree with you that Mr Boyd's view does not comport with Scripture, but it seems that different people have different criteria for 'disliking' YT videos.
But then... obviously you're free to click that dislike button.
Also obviously: God knew you would dislike it.
;)
cheers
@@alltimeislikethepresentP.s. given the subject matter here, your username is very interesting. All time is like the present to God.
The Lord sits above it all, every bit of it, even over time itself. This is how he declares the end from the beginning. For all things are naked and *opened* unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.
I guess you could say I hold to "opened theism." :D
Isn't the popular view among modern physicists "B Theory of Time" more consistent with the first 3 options more so than the open theism view that these guys seem to prefer? Sort of ironic.
If God exists outside of time it takes care of his omnipotence (though he may decide not to act on it)omniscience and omnipresence. Molinism seems a better fit.
@@juan-miguelvasquez2329
Neither the Scriptures nor a deep conceptual analysis support the idea that God exists "outside of time".
@@Mentat1231 sincerely interested in that point. Would recommend any reading material?
@@goobadooba1967
Well, if you mean books on A-theory of time and such, there is a collection of papers called "Einstein, Relativity, and Absolute Simultaneity"; but most of the papers are pretty technical, and they don't all focus on this exact issue. One option for an easier read would be William Lane Craig's "Time and Eternity", but that does tend to lean heavily in a theistic direction. Maybe try one of his lectures here on UA-cam about theories of time, or his interviews on Closer to Truth?
@@Mentat1231 I'm interested particularly in theistic views of God's relationship with time, so I appreciate the recommendations.
What does scripture teach?
God does not settle the future, but he knows everything because God is a field of energy, a concatenation of Information and Order. Life on earth unfolds in superposition states, and humans play a role because they have to choose. As medium consciousness, we are persons like God himself, equipped with judgment and reason. We have desires, and we make decisions. However, we cannot choose outside of the existing Information which permeates, pervades, and penetrates everything in the universe. God is one-way (yes and amen), while humans are two-way (yes and no). Notice that Information continually props Order, but Disorder impedes the process. It is Disorder that brings into the equation the other way.
Nobody really knows anything
Do you really know that?
You have not mentioned the Islamic tradition in that
Heresy
"god causes it in such a way that we humans are still responsible for our actions". How so?
This Calvinist view is illogical, so your guess is as good as anyone else's
What do other religions teach?
Teach? Are you ok?
So God knows the possibilities but doesn't know the exact outcome ?
Interesting. Boyd makes an articulate and thought-full case for how he understands things to be, but the reality is that I beheld all the work of God, that a man cannot find out the work that is done under the sun: because though a man labour to seek it out, yet he shall not find it; *yea further;* though a wise man think to know it, yet shall he not be able to find it out.
What we can know, tho, are those things which God has revealed to us. And he said, I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none _like_ me, -sui generis- declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure.
I'm well aware that Dr Boyd is well acquainted with the above verse, but that his theology interprets it differently. I'm also aware that sometimes God's kids are called simply to believe the scripture's plainer statements, not to theologically interpret them. Many theologians of all stripes, from Calvinist to OpenTheist, would be wise to be converted and become as little children.
If we are to be as children, then when our Dad reveals things about himself, we ought to simply take him at his word. Just to know, Thus saith the Lord.
The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever...
How can God know every last detail about tomorrow? How can all things be naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do?
I do not and cannot know. But I try to trust what he's told us and to be content like David that such knowledge is too wonderful for me, it is lofty: I cannot attain unto it. Neither do I exercise myself in great matters, or in things too high for me. But surely I have behaved and quieted myself, _as a child..._
All of us have imperfect, even distorted views of God, but may he bless us anyway as we seek him.
So man have the power to determine realities, his libertarian freewill is established and God responds, can be manipulated....This is a theology of man, the underlying force behind it that appeals to man's freedom!
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How can the future exist before it happens if we do indeed have free will?
Our conduct is key. Why do we try to ignore or sneak around this fact?
And what makes your think we have free will ? : }
Joseph Shawa
We don’t have freewill? Can you elaborate?
Agreed God gave free will but possibly people wanted a perfect God. How stupid they should have let God be God.
We don't have free will if we did there's some things in Daniel and Revelations i would like to change.Where is your free will when you get cancer or arrested or Fired and if you say well that's not what free will is then what use is it,thought process only? Where is the power in your will?
@@onlyonetruth7654 very wellsaid.
Just as we can choose to close our eyes for a time to deprive ourselves the information our eyes would otherwise enable us to take in, so also could God, as the theoretical Creator, choose for a time to not use Its ability to see the future. In our case, the reason could be to block out intense light or dust, or to sleep. In the case of God, it would be to refrain from interfere with free will.
I mostly agree, but I believe God could still see our future free actions without deciding them. Its like watching a ballgame after its been played.
The definition of madness
Seems like the idea scares you.
The idea of a universe with living beings on a small rock is madness too....but since we are here we take it for granted like its a normal thing.
Why? When I read the Bible there's no place that I see that says that God knows every detail about everything in all eternity from now. I don't disagree that maybe this is what it practically looks like - but what if there's more mystery to what we've traditionally have been taught?
For 1 our "traditional" teachings are designed to support the existing "system" and is designed to condition the human "psyche" with affirmations of common misperceptions that have helped "steer" mankind into the civilization of today......MOST of what you "know" (believe) comes from these deeply rooted religious misconceptions such as "FREE WILL" ( which simply CANNOT exist within THIS reality) and eternal "salvation" ( ANY form of infinite existence is 100% impossible) "GOOD" and " EVIL " "RIGHT" and " WRONG " ALL HUMAN perceptions and are of absolutely NO significance to THIS existence as well as irrelevant to the reality of the ultimate TRUTH......oh yeah there's a LOT MORE "mystery" to the actual TRUTH than the average human could EVEN accept....let alone KNOW.....THIS is because of the "veil" of human misperception you've been "conditioned" to see everything through in order to have the ability to "accept" what you believe as reality.....THESE misconceptions were a lot MORE necessary for earlier human mentality and OBVIOUSLY MANY have never really evolved beyond it because they are STILL following ancient and outdated systems like "Judaism,Islam,Christianity,etc" and WON'T accept the TRUTH of reality but would rather have "faith" in a misperception that makes them feel better ( what they've already been conditioned to accept)...... Logic would OBVIOUSLY dictate the VERY FIRST rule of reality.....if THIS entire universe around us is NOT even "FREE" itself and IS in FACT bound by certain law's and principles that govern THIS reality of existence and IS(itself) obligated to adhere to and maintain these very laws and principles in order to even exist itself within THIS reality.....THEN HOW can anything within it possibly claim to be "FREE" of OR from it?.....everything happens for a reason ( NO action is "FREE" ALL are reactionary response to ANOTHER predetermined and previous "action") .....EVER since the" BIG bang " the universe has "reacted" ( STILL IS expanding lol) but the "BIG bang" itself was ALSO ANOTHER reaction to ANOTHER predetermined and previous action....and so on....and so on.....NO FREE WILL not even freedom of choice for YOUR options(same as MINE) will ALWAYS be limited to a number of different "variables" such as DNA ,monetary status,social skills,geological location,etc,etc and though humanly impossible at THIS time COULD STILL be predicted by a higher intelligence due to the FACT there will ALWAYS be a limited number of possible outcomes based upon these predetermined variables.....nothing we do is FREE....everything happens for a reason......ALL actions are REALLY REACTIONS to OTHER predetermined REACTIONS.....THIS is FACT.....lol
If there is an outside conscious entity that created the universe, how can we know what he intends for the universe, what he used to make it, what level of control he has over it.....perhaps God cannot intervene at all and can only observe. The God theory of the universe is pretty broad. He may not have created the universe at all, and merely interacts with it, maybe going between multiple universes. The idea of an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent god is one of the least likely, and least possible of theories on the nature of God.
'God" has a 100% ability to predict the future as action and reaction, especially with ALL material thing only affected by gravity, and even more so with sentience within a "CLOSED" system. Dominos once pushed, if set up the right way, will fall accordingly with the first push. "God" doesn't even need to interfere, as he set the dominos up. Free will exists only within a closed system.
If God created the universe he knows the future.
How does it follow that if God created, he exhaustively knows the future of his creation?
Is it possible for God to create a world that is free, where creatures have freedom to act according to their own will, in which he can’t know the future exhaustively?
Perphaps God lost and that would break my 💓.
The Director of the world does not want to be bored. So He said, " Let it Be". And " leave it alone, see what happens. And who will be calling".
What? Elaborate pls
aight im gonna say it, that scar on his lip looks badass lol
It's fascinating that people still read the historical fiction that is the bible and think they can have some certainty about this hidden all powerful being who wants to love you but you have to love him first. The authors of the bible preyed on the common desires nearly all people have. The desire to be known, loved, cared for and understood are all possible with a personal god who existence can never be disproven and who only really cares if you love him and his son (no ladies in this monotheism). I understand there is a lot of money in religion, it's just surprising that so many people take it so seriously. I guess the same could be said of sports and countries. Humans seem perfectly happy to believe whatever they want without ever considering the fact that these lies fit so neatly into their desires and fears.
Mendicant Bias I think your assessment of Christianity is quite shallow and unsophisticated. The idea that the Biblical authors invented Christianity to prey on people's emotions is hardly true. The New Testament authors for example had seen the resurrected Christ and his miracles and professed this eyewitness account when they preached the gospel. And all of them were literally tortured and murdered for not merely what they believed but what they had seen with their own senses. To go that far to create/preserve a lie or a fake religion seems hardly plausible.
"Humans seem perfectly happy to believe whatever they want without ever considering the fact that these lies fit so neatly into their desires and fears." including your comment :)
In the name of God, the infinitely Compassionate and Merciful.
Praise be to God, Lord of all the worlds.
The Compassionate, the Merciful. Ruler on the Day of Reckoning.
You alone do we worship, and You alone do we ask for help.
Guide us on the straight path,
the path of those who have received your grace;
not the path of those who have brought down wrath, nor of those who wander astray.
Amen.
Perphaps this is hell?
.......”this hidden all powerful being who wants to love but you have to love him first.”
1 John 4 v 19 - WE LOVE BECAUSE HE FIRST LOVED US.
The way he explains seems he personally knows who is this incomprehensible god.
there are countless p like him who speak of god as if he is personally known to them .
Well said
Open Theism is an interesting concept but I am not sure that God just knowing all the *possibilities* is enough. Why do we need God for this when we have machines that can reach this abilities or at least in the future.
Throw away all the prophecies?
No, throwing away the prophecies is not an entailment of Open Theism.
Many (most?) of the prophecies tell us HOW God knows what's going to happen: He specifically tells us WHAT he's planning on doing.
Even the difficult ones such as naming people before they are born can be explained under Open Theism.
I've noticed in total 9 people in the Bible named by God, 5 of them before they were born... it's easy for God to get people to name their children what he wants:
Named by God before their predicted birth: Mahershalal-hashbaz (son of Isaiah), Josiah, Cyrus, John (the Baptist), Jesus
Named by God after their birth: Jedidiah (Solomon), three children of Hosea
Besides those there's another 4 at least (if you don't count Samuel) who were said to be known by God from before birth (doesn't say before conception) or promised by God that I can think of -- all of these can be accounted for by Open Theism:
Isaac and Samson (promised before conception), and David and Jeremiah (known from before birth in the womb).
Anyway, it's well within God's power under Open Theism to know people from the womb and even name kings and prophets in advance of their conception.
If god new everything about the universe.no surprise adventure.very very dead borring. Universe..
God doesn't know the future. He does know the outcome on the basis of which way we are going in life
I wd like sir RLK of closer to truth to explore the questions from episode "how cd god know the future" that he had done with William lane Craig.I wd like RLK to put the thoughts n explanations of WLC from that episode to other experts.
If you want to know about God you MUST go to Torah and the Rabbis. I want to see him interview a Rabbi. Many of them are also in the sciences.
Agreed
but how is this discussion any different than wondering if santa knows the exact route he is going to take to the houses of those who have been nice and not naughty? ...and if he knows in advance who the naughty kids are going to be anyway. theology is 100% baseless and fantasy-based philosophy, untethered to reality, but pretending one special brand of make believe is legitimate for no good reason whatsoever. to the extent these questions have a basis in philosophy, it is all outdated, pre-science, and no longer relevant.
Julian Walker Says the guy who practices yoga.You are wasting your life on bullshit.
Kaushik Kam ooooh nice -you did some homework. i am flattered! you might do a little more research, yoga has plenty of legit benefits that don't require any supernatural claims!
Julian Walker you beat me to it.
Very original.
But some of the fundamentals knowledge about God that He is not bound to time... Are you sure you are interviewing a professional and not a layman?? These kinds of people that make our head as Christians bound our heads in arguments like that of Ahmad Didat...... You should name yourselves so that I can say I do not belong to such people.
In the name of God, the infinitely Compassionate and Merciful.
Praise be to God, Lord of all the worlds.
The Compassionate, the Merciful. Ruler on the Day of Reckoning.
You alone do we worship, and You alone do we ask for help.
Guide us on the straight path,
the path of those who have received your grace;
not the path of those who have brought down wrath, nor of those who wander astray.
Amen.
Where does the Bible say that God is not bound to time? Show me the verse.
gawd dun it
Perhaps God doesnt exist?
Heresy lmao
How
I believe God has the ability to limit his own knowledge, like the sea of forgetfulness. This would explain a lot.
These Closer To Truth episodes featuring theologians serve to demonstrate the utter lack of consensus believers have regarding their imaginary friend.
AllGodsMyth actually that's not true. You are speaking only about the Christians. The Jews have a Torah that is identical to the oldest one ever found. They agree about God.
Like agnostics and atheists have a consensus.
Keith Allver
They do. They have unbelief and do not know and it is up to the claimant to demonstrate why their belief is factual knowledge.
The existence of God is a scientific fact.
God creates the future
On best circumstances
Sounds neat, but this isn’t what the Bible says, at all....anywhere.
Would you like a very long list of verses?
Moolnism lol
No molinism says that god knows all possible worlds and what we would choose then actualize that world while open theist say that god created the world knows all past and present but bc we have free will the future is open and isn’t set til we chose with what ever choices is in front of us so like we get presented with choice a b c d and e and e has 2.5% while b has 72.5% I can freely choose e and let’s say I do that would lead to other possibilities that I can choose which then shapes the future of my life but molinism is that god saw all this and chose a world where he saw all possible worlds weather I could be born in bc time or 1000 years from now but chose this reality
This guy houd just listen to himself. First you dream up a "god" then you explain everything by defining "god" any way that supports your position. Religion, especially "one god" religion is a cult of power and nothing what-so-ever about salvation or anything else.
There are no gods, there is lust for power.
What power gained Jesus and the apostles?
If you repeat through centuries the same ideas, they may be true 🤔
Frank you do great job but give us favor DO NOT INTERVIEW with Theologian. All of them demagog we we looking for true we don't want to hear from liars!
So… On The Open Theist position, God does not know for certain who will be born 1 year from now. He is as much in the dark on that as all of us are. Furthermore, He has stood back for thousands of years and watched Billions of people reject Him and go to the Hell He created and instead of shutting everything down and stopping everything, He just lets it all continue.
.......... And how is the Open Theist God anymore moral that the Calvinist God or the Arminian God or the Molinist God ??
@Jon Irrelevant to my comments.
As I wrote …
So… On The Open Theist position, God does not know for certain who will be born 1 year from now. He is as much in the dark on that as all of us are. Furthermore, He has stood back for thousands of years and watched Billions of people reject Him and go to the Hell He created and instead of shutting everything down and stopping everything, He just lets it all continue.
.......... And how is the Open Theist God anymore moral that the Calvinist God or the Arminian God or the Molinist God ??
@Jon As I have written …
On The Open Theist position, God does not know for certain who will be born 1 year from now. He is as much in the dark on that as all of us are. Furthermore, He has stood back for thousands of years and watched Billions of people reject Him and go to the Hell He created and instead of shutting everything down and stopping everything, He just lets it all continue.
Now, seriously, that is the case on Open Theism.
The Calvinist God, The Arminian God, The Molinist God, AND The Open Theist God are ALL morally flawed !!
The Open Theist God should have shut everything down and stopped everything thousands of years ago. He should have said something like…
“ ENOUGH !! I am stopping this and I not allowing anyone else to be born into the earth and go to Hell. “ I am shutting it all down !!!
The fact that He has not stopped everything and shut everything down is proof positive that He is morally flawed !!
@Jon Wrong. I am showing you and others who read this that The Open Theist God is morally flawed as is the Calvinist God, the Arminian God, and The Molinist God.
@@TheMirabillis God sends those to hell who dont like Him. I dont really understand whats the problem.
For example if someone hates God why would God force him to go in heaven? If you dont like God you definitely wont want to be for eternity with God.
So God says to that person "let your will be done" and sends him to hell.
Now what exactly hell is and how will people will experience it, we have very little info about it.
All I know is that God is a just God and He has chosen the best possible option. That doesnt mean that people which went to hell will go to heaven one day because the Bible clearly says that if you go once there, there is no escape.
There is four views of hell u got the mainstream view of eternal conscious tournament, annihilism basically god just deleted the soul, sperationist(my view) hell is just a separate place from god, and universalism where everyone goes to heaven or that gods love will reach even into hell and everyone will be in heaven, also a UA-camr inspiring philosophy holds to eventual annihilism where hell is u destroying urself from ur desires and me and him both believe u can get out of hell as c.s Lewis puts it hell is locked from the inside and we have free will in heaven bc satan was there and then rebelled with other angels and they fell so why can’t the opposite happen
Total lunatic