6L80 Assembly PT1 - Subassemblies (DEMO) - Please Read Description
Вставка
- Опубліковано 22 чер 2023
- ** This video (part 1 of a two-video series) shows the reassembly of a 6L80 CORE that will NOT be going back into a vehicle thus no new parts were used that would otherwise be installed**
I reassemble a 6L80 to demonstrate the assembly process, starting with the pump and working my way through the rest of the sub-assemblies. Along the way, I provide some commentary and advice for performing a complete overhaul on these units, including parts selection, specialized machining and reconditioning as well as considerations for high performance. I also offer tips and tricks on assembly, discuss special tooling and show a few improvised methods and work-arounds for some hard-to-find and/or very expensive specialty tools.
I figured I'd get something on the channel for now in the event anyone needs some insight into the assembly process while I wait for a high-performance build to come in.
*** It's recommended you retro a second design stator-pump cover assembly that was introduced in mid-2009 onto any 6L80E pump body/bell housing that came with the first design stator (2006-E2009) - see below.
6L80 Key Lifecycle Updates
- mid-2007: Low sprag one-way clutch updated from 30 to 38 elements for increased durability
- mid-2009: Stator redesigned to accept locking sealing rings support o-rings underneath sealing rings to improve sealing integrity against 3-5-R drum (referred to as '2nd design stator')
- 2010: 1-2-3-4 apply piston redesigned to reduce clutch failure due to the piston cracking; issues were still reported but not as frequent. Recommend installing Sonnax billet aluminum piston for all years
- 2012: Unigear style ring gear for output planetary carrier - rear speed sensor also changed to coincide with transition to unigear design.
- 2014: Eighth check ball added to upper valve body; separator plate redesigned (2010+ can use extra check ball if updated separator plate is installed)
- 2018: Parking rod and bullet assembly hardness improved to prevent failure resulting in driver inability to place vehicle into park
More details: atracom.blob.core.windows.net...
Parts List for All 6L80 Rebuilds:
www.tahoeyukonforum.com/threa... - Авто та транспорт
AWESOME VIDEO. Thank u for taking the time to do this, when its just a “mock” demonstration. Very amazing!
Thanks, James - appreciate the kind words!
@Nickstransmissions so I have a 2013 Sierra 1500 4x4. 6L80E. I have the p0741 TCC solenoid stuck closed. So July of last year I installed a new transmission, new billet 3800 stall triple disc converter from ProTorque and their billet flywheel. Everything drove fine until Jan of this year. All of a sudden the code came up and the converter no longer was working. Along with Manual mode only working in 4-6, and the stall speed was higher. So I had a spare new 6l80E, before swapping them I did my research to see why it was doing it. Come to the conclusion that it was either the TCC solenoid in the TCM, the TCC regulator valve in the valve body, or the TCC control valve in the pump. I ohm’ed out the solenoid to the best of my knowledge and it passed. So I said screw it and put the new trans in, when I did even after programming and tuning the new trans it would reverse fine but it was stuck in 3rd gear. So I took the tcm&valve body from the trans that I thought the control valve in the pump was stuck in and put it in new trans. Lo and behold the problem transferred over. P0741 code, and the converter isn’t even trying to lock up. Now this whole time the fluid has been amsoil trans fluid, I have an inline tru cool 40k cooler, and thermo delete. It never really got above 170 even when pulling stuff. So I know it never got hot and I don’t think the converter is the issue. It’s got to be either the solenoid or the regulator valve because the problem transferred over from trans to trans. I don’t really wanna buy a TCM/Vbody ass, but what is the correct way to test the solenoid? It’s the 5th one from the Cannon plug for the harness. I swear I can command it to lock up and hear a noise like an electric motor run noise and then it stops and doesn’t do anything. What you think?
Hi Podunk Mechanics, thank you for watching...
I would vacuum test the valve body, paying close attention to the TCC regulator valve's sealing integrity. My guess is that it's worn. The new transmission should have had some valve body correction kit installed unless it was a GM remanufactured unit.
You can watch my 6L80E Diagnosis and Troubleshooting PT3 which covers vacuum testing...I use Sonnax's vac test machine and their plates but I don't think you need the plates themselves, just the machine.
Here's the video: ua-cam.com/video/aBx63Vwo6mA/v-deo.html
If the valve body does not have a Sonnax Zip kit or Transgo Reprogramming kit installed, I'd definitely install one of those two kits. You may also have weakness in the pump (limit and control valves for the TCC) but can't vac test those unless the pump is on the bench...
AWESOME!!! thanks
awesome video and great build tips. one question on the planetary. sonnax has a replacement cover, theres really no other way to get debris out without removing and replacing that cover. whats your thoughts? thanks doug
Thanks, Doug! I haven't used the Sonnax planetary kit for those transmissions, have it on my list to try for the next 6L80/90 I get in for overhaul.
I watched another builder on you tube who recommended tig welding the shafts of the 1234 hub and the 3-5-R hub noting that the shafts can break at the hubs with higher horsepower cars. What are your thoughts on tig welding those? Do you think it could affect balancing? Thanks.
It's definitely a good idea to tig-weld the 1-2-3-4 and 3-5-R shafts to the body of the hub. Just thin bead all the way around will reinforce the hub and have no impact on balance. I would not recommend wasting time welding the 4-5-6 hub as the splines on the stock pieces can strip under high power/torque...I just replace with one of the billet steel options on the market (I typically use the Sonnax hub as it allows you to run the factory damper).
@@nickstransmissions Thanks for getting back to me so quickly. I already purchased the Sonnax Extreme Duty 456 hub and shaft assembly and the powerglide style 45 tooth frictions and steels. Along with the High Capacity 4-5-6 clutch apply piston kit. I will Tig-weld those other hubs as you recommended. Thanks again for all your help.
When assebling from all new GM parts, what rotor kit do you use, the thinnest one offered?
If using all new GM parts (which is def the right way to go), My machinist sources the rotor and slide then machines the pump body pocket so he can control the clearance, holding it between .001-.0015 between rotor and the pump body deck surface as well as slide-to-pump body deck surface.
Thanks for watching!
Great video. I subscribed and will be watching the rest of your videos!
I think the only comment I have is if you could make the yellow test a little larger. It's kinda hard to read. Pretty minor. Otherwise, GREAT content! Thanks for sharing!
Thanks, Carlos!
Appreciate the sub.
When you say 'Yellow test' - what are you referring to? Can you let me know where in the video? Sorry, not familiar/drawing a blank atm.
So just thinking aloud… we install the Sonnex zip-kit with the o-ring fitted plugs to help mitigate hydraulic pressure loss. Along with that valves and other goodies are installed in the valve body. So my question is, why are you so hell bent on absolute pump perfection? We know the pump is capable of far more volume than what is actually needed to operate this unit even as it ages. Do you feel that once the Sonnex updates are done the transmission can operate normally and for a long time with a less than perfect pump?
Hi Larry,
"Hell-bent on pump perfection"? Interesting choice of words from someone who rebuilds (I'm assuming you're a fellow transmission builder)...I hate comebacks and warranty my work so everything is either new, brought up to spec via reconditioning or upgraded based on all the known areas of weakness in these (and any) transmission.
That's why I have the standards that I do for all the transmissions I work on...I'm not perfect and shit does happen, unfortunately but I try to mitigate the risk of having to do the job twice to the fullest extent of my abilities.
@@nickstransmissionsperhaps that was a poor choice of words… I meant no offense at all.
No worries, Larry!
On a 2015 6L90E. In the rear carrier assembly, it looks like it melted the rear piston and melted the rubbery plastic all through the rear clutch packs and locked up the trans. There is no metal anywhere, so it wasn't really slipping anywhere else. All of the clutches are still nice and redish. I am having a hard time getting the 2 shells out so I can get to the big snap ring. Have you seen this before and what may have caused it?
Damn, sorry to hear that GPVic...Rear planet failure can be caused by a number of things but most common are a combination of poor maintenance, low fluid levels and hard launches. The two hubs (1-2-3-4 and 3-5-R) that you're having trouble with are likely stuck in their respective sun gears.
Was this transmission used in a performance application behind an engine making big power? Do you know the maintenance history? How many miles on the vehicle/transmission?
No sir. UT came out of a 2500 2wd. The guy stopped at a gas station and came out and that was it. I got UT apart finally. Those 2 empty shells are tore up with the bushings. The rear center support bushing is tore up alone with the bearing and the rear planetary gear set is locked up and stuck in the output housing. From the 1234 and I believe 3,5,R housing back I'd destroyed. This is going to get exspensive. But it'll be new. I don't know what caused it. The fluid is dark and the filter looks clogged so prob lack of fluid to the tear. Now the rear most case bearing is good and I don't see any damage to the case so hmmmm. Maybe find a few used parts nd I'll be in there. All of the clutch packs before the 1234 shell look brand new but that means nothing lol. The lower sprag is locked slap up as well lol. Like I said. Exspensive!!!! Lol.
Yep...it may be less expensive to just acquire another core. Depending on year, you'd likely come out ahead vs trying to piece that one back together. My guess is that thing saw a lot of towing/hauling and was never maintained properly, fluid never changed, etc but just a WAG from here.
Yea that's gonna be my best bet. Thank you sir.
You're welcome!
I have a 6L90 that needs to be rebuilt, if I rebuild the transmission do I still need to have the transmission/ecu reprogrammed at the dealer? I know a different transmission would, but hoping if I just rebuild without any performance upgrades I wouldn't have to. Thanks
Hi Justin, you wouldn't need to have the TEHCM reprogrammed if you either reuse your pre-existing one or purchase an OEM GM (or Sonnax) TEHCM but you will still need to do a fast adapt relearn...Reprogramming =/= fast adapt relearn...Reprogramming means you're changing the operating system on the TEHCM to match what's been installed on the vehicle ECM while 'fast adapt' simply means resetting your transmission's control parameters to how they were from the factory originally but leaving the operating system itself unchanged.
I'd def install some performance parts if it's within your budget as they can only help, not hurt (except maybe the wallet).
Thanks a ton for the fast reply. I bought the truck at an auction knowing it needed a transmission, looked like they dented the pan, likely broke the filter apart and it goes a few hundred feet then quits and the fluid is dark, no pink at all on a white paper towel. Not sure I even want the truck as I don't really need it so thought about just cleaning and rebuilding the transmission replacing only needed parts to drive for a while and decide if I like it. Good to know if I do keep it I can upgrade/improve it without having to reprogram it, dealer is an hour tow away.@@nickstransmissions
You're welcome, Justin - thank you for watching! Please sub if you haven't already as ill be doing more 6L transmission videos in the next month or so.
Definitely subscribed and watching many videos. Another question, is it worth putting a new filter in, tapping out the dent and adding some atf to drive it around a little and try to get an idea what might need replacing or should most problems be obvious enough if I follow along with your videos?
All the problems will be obvious once you get into it so no real reason to continue driving it...You also don't want to risk damaging the rear planet as those can be very expensive to replace.
Hi Nick, Since I'm building my 6L80 with all upgraded parts for more horsepower and will be having transmission tuned afterwards, Is it still necessary to have the Fast Adapt Relearn procedure done? AND, will it be ok to drive the car to the tuner without doing the fast adapt relearn procedure?
Yes, it can be done at the time the tune is uploaded.
No, don't drive it without the fast adapt relearn being done or bad things may happen.
@@nickstransmissions Ok, Thank you so much. I will trailer it. I also took your advice and I am installing the Trans Go unbreakable pump ring kit 6L80-PKH. No other UA-camr talks about that. Thanks!
You're welcome, man! Yea, that Unbreakable Pump kit is a no-brainer and not sure why others don't discuss it (odd).
Good luck with the build, let me know how it turns out.
Do you still like this method of pump alignment? Sure would be nice to save on buying a tool I’ll probably only use once.
@@chrisfletcher I didn't buy the alignment tool. I just made sure that the pump was even all the way around and slowly tightened the bolts down making sure it didn't move. I didn't have any problems doing it that way. I've heard of other guys putting 2 large hose clamps together, and using that method. But I Feel, that if your careful, you can align it by eye and by feel.
What would be normal for a machine shop charge to machine the bell housing/pump cover?
Hi Omar, that's going to vary but I pay my machinist $175 for a complete pump overhaul. that includes resurfacing both halves, cutting the rotor/slide pocket to depth such that clearance between slide/rotor and deck surface is .001-.0015 for both. I also replace the pump cover-stator gasket.
Thanks Nick! I just wanted to give myself an idea. I just bought one really cheap with the transfer case attached, for basically what just the TC is worth. If everything looks good upon disassembly, I’ll try to overhaul it following your videos. Thanks again!
You're welcome, Omar!
I am doing a swap in a 03'Crown Vic Police Interceptor. Ls3/6L90. I bought a core out of a 2015 2500 2wd for $300. The guy stopped at a gas station and turn his truck off. He came out and it wouldn't move forward or backwards. Does it sound like maybe the converter or pump prob died? I know you can't diagnose it. Just curious what it sounds like. And my Ls3 is going to making about 450 ish wheel. Maybe a little more. Should I go with blue clutch plates? Burnouts and ice cream with the grandkids pretty much. Maybe red light to red-light. Down the road once I get the suspension done it may see the track ( road). I may the it drag racing a few times but I doubt much. I'm setting my redline a little over factory. I'm not going to be turning 6800 or 7k rpms. I want my engine to last. And trans for that matter lol. Thank you for the videos. They were very informative.
Hi Hugh, thank you for watching!
The following could cause no movement in any gear/range in a 6L:
- Pump failure
- TC failure
- Stripped input shaft splines
- Stripped/destroyed front or rear gear set
- #1 and #5 check ball getting stuck in the plate
- Broken TCase chain (4WD only).
$300 is a good price for the 6L90 core...for your purposes (assuming you're going to be rebuilding it) either pump failure or check balls are the two reasons you're hoping for as separator plate wouldn't likely be damaged (if so it's cheap to replace) and the pump will be completely machined, gone through and new internals installed.
If I’m guessing.. I would say a check ball wore and got stuck in the separator plate.
@larryreno8293 I finally tore her down and half of the trans is garbage. The bushing from the hubs back arr junk. The bushings, the shafts are gouged up. The rear molded piston melted all through rear planetary and metal locked it up. Lol. She's in bad shape lol. Thank you for the info. I still haven't tore the valve body down yet.
Hi! where is your shop located? I want you to rebuild my 2009 GMC 6L80
Hi John, I'm out west (Cali/southwest)....Where are you located?
@@nickstransmissions Oh no, I'm Palm Beach FL, guess I'm watching your videos in a loop until memorized Thanks!
Damn, sorry man. I think there's a reputable shop in the Miami area that has some decent feedback on forums...If I can come across it, will reply back with the name.
Thank you for watching John!
@@nickstransmissions Hey thanks! but it's ok I do not set foot on Dade County lol Awesome videos keep them coming! I subscribed and thumbs up!
I dont blame you one bit! Thank you for subscribing, John!
Nick, This is the best detailed and through assembly video I've seen of the 6L80. I've been waiting to see it. Thanks so much. I look forward to Part 2. I am going to be rebuilding my 6L80 for my 2013 Camaro SS. The transmission is slipping going into 3RD. I'm running over 600 Hp. I have a new case, new bell housing, new stator, new pump, new Sonnax billet 456 hub and intermediate shaft and every high performance part that Sonnax sells for the 6L80. I'm looking for a stiff or harder shift than factory. On clearances 50-74 for the 4-5-6, would I better to keep it as close to 50 as possible? And, what about the 3-5-R clearances? Your advice would be much appreciated. Thanks again.
Thanks, KoelzSpeed Garage!
For firmer shifts, follow "Prices is Right" rules and get the closest clearance you can to the max allowable without going over. All other things equal, the more clearance you have, the firmer the shifts as long as you are still within specification that the factory calls for! The 4-5-6 clutch should have .060-.070 clearance (install the Sonnax 4-5-6 piston kit if you're not already planning to do so). Reinforce the welds at the base of the 3-5-R drum to prevent future 3-5-R clutch pack failures. Replace your parking rod assembly with the updated HD version from GM.
If you're installing the Sonnax 6L80-LB1kit, that should provide for higher line pressures at WOT over stock (more or less keeps pressures similar to stock at part throttle) thus firmer shifts. Otherwise, tuning is the fastest route to better overall shift performance for these units. Find someone w/ experience tuning the 6L80 (perhaps w/HP Tuners) if you don't already have a tuner and give the tuner a run-down of what you're doing to the trans, stall speed and desired shift characteristics and he should be able to help get it to where you want it.
@@nickstransmissions Thanks for getting back to me so quickly. And thanks for all your help. I bought the Sonnax 6L80 Zip Kit, I think that includes the 6L80-LB1 so I should be ok, Right? I did also buy the Sonnax 4-5-6 piston kit, and the power glide frictions. I also bought the High Capacity 3-5-R apply ring and the 1-2-3-4 heavy duty piston. I got an upgraded 3-5-R drum from WIT. Looks like the seam has been TIG welded. I bought a brand new case with the rooster comb installed..... will that have the upgraded parking rod assembly already in it? And how can I tell if it does? The car has been tuned, but I guess I'll have to have it tuned again? If so, my tuner is about 35 miles away. Should I trailer my car to the tuner? Your help is so much appreciated. Thanks!
Sounds like you have all the requisite parts (the boost valve comes in the zip kit). I would have no idea if the new case has the updated parking rod assembly installed - ask the supplier/retailer you purchased it from as they should know.
What was wrong with the pre-existing case?
If the car is already tuned, contact your tuner and let him know what you're going to be doing to the trans and how you want it to shift and he will be able to let you know if additional tuning is required and to what extent.
At minimum, you will need to perform a "fast adapt relearn" once it's installed and filled to the correct level with fluid. DO NOT drive it without performing the fast adapt successfully first. If you don't have a bi-directional scan tool with 'adapt' functionality, have it towed to your tuner or whomever can perform the fast adapt for you.
Lastly, unless you're buying a fully assembled 3-5-R drum from WIT, you'll need to replace the two return spring snap rings (one for the 1-2-3-4 and the other for the 3-5-R as well as the eye-loop snap ring for the 4-5-6 return piston/piston dam). The kit's part number is 24260139. Also, replace the snap ring for the low sprag (part number 24230752) as that also likes to break if worn.
You may find my 6L80E thread on 'TahoeYukon forum' helpful: www.tahoeyukonforum.com/threads/gm-6l80-transmission-information-thread.141927/
@@nickstransmissions Nothing wrong with my pre-existing case. I want the case painted and I don't want the trans apart for a long time waiting for the case to be painted. So I bought a new case, bell housing and tail shaft. Everything is painted really nice now. Just waiting now for the right time to pull my transmission. Since I'm a novice to transmission rebuilding, I want to rebuild it in segments rather than completely having everything apart with a million parts everywhere to remember where they go.I also bought new wave plates, bevo springs, Torrington bearing set and Durabond dry film coated bushing kit. And Sonnax just came out with the low/ reverse sprag rebuild kit so I bought that too. I will buy the new snap ring kit you recommended. I try to be thorough like yourself. Why have the transmission out and apart and not replace everything if you can afford it. Once I have the transmission back in the car, will it be ok to start it up to check fluid level and drive it on my trailer without performing the "fast adapt relearn"?
Agree whole-heartedly with that approach; I was just wondering if something happened to your case as I rarely (basically never) see the cases themselves have defects that require replacement so was curious. It may or may not bang-shift into forward if you don't do the fast adapt relearn but otherwise shouldn't hurt anything (I'd just wench it on if you have a wench but if not, it should be ok).
Though if you get a neutral condition when trying to drive it, you will need to wench it on to the trailer.
Never showed us how to get that snap ring in the center support.
Here you go: ua-cam.com/video/GLTUPEOA-Gc/v-deo.html
Thank you for watching, Matt.
It’s a big pair of snap ring pliers.