@@astoocities Salvato's made a few modes within the melee community during the time DDLC was under everyones radar I believe. key example is the tournament codes for the game.
I wouldn't doubt that it's happened in Brawl/PM before, but it wouldn't be as headline-worthy since mods for those games (especially Brawl) were pretty out of control already.
+Spelunky Smash OMG wow now i'll never be sure if this pichu that wrecked me online was cheating or if i just fucking suck. thank you for granting me this last sliver of hope
Hacks would only change local gameplay. Online it would cause a desync since your iso would be unmodded and differ from his. So sorry, you did get destroyed based on skill level.
So you don't allow people to play on their own set ups at any local.. How are you going to get a stockpile of trusted set ups? They would have to come from people in the community.. So idk what you mean by this.
+Josef What he means is that players who bring set-ups cannot use the set-up that they brought, which in theory should't let players cheat without the TO being on it. Although I'm not so sure about the second point.
Love that you look into solving these problems and making them public even if "hacked melee" in a bad light isn't good for you. Thanks and I hope you can put an end to cheaters!
really great video Dan, thought provoking and information filled as always. Also; to peeps who are wondering who won, given Dan is one of the best Links in the US in both PM and Melee i think its safe to assume he took that stock
I think the simplest way to avoid this is to have players play on other peoples setups. TOs can keep track of who brought what and assign matches to specific setups.
Activation method: -In Port 4 -Blue Pichu -Holding down and left on the left stick -Holding L Known Changes: -Pichu falls faster -Lagless aerial moves/ landing lag -Down tlit is 1.5 times longer with higher base knockback -Fsmash higher knockback and was on 1.0 making SDI more difficult -Modifications only activate for Port 4 Pichu
Since we're trying to be comprehensive, what about direct modding of the controllers to affect input? Although something like push right/left on d-pad to perform super wave dash as Samus would be easy to spot it's not too difficult to imagine that something more subtle could be added.
Every Dan Salvato post/video ever - "Hello, my name is Dan Salvato" "So there is this -insert problem here-" "This is why it is a problem" "Here's how we can potentially fix it" "JK guys, I already figured out a solution for you guys" or "I'm working on a solution already, hahaha"
What I think a solution might be is to make sure people at tourneys don't play on their own consoles. Maybe have the TOs be able to identify systems them but not the players (maybe don't have the physical gamecube/wii visible) so its possible to mix up people away from their own systems but also return them after the tourney. Also with that integrity check you had mentioned, I think there should be a middleman for moneymatches and if the player is caught with some modifications, the other person instantly wins the money, just for the sake of upsetting the cheater.
Well, it can be difficult. Mid set, it's hard to notice that a hitbox was slightly longer than usual, or a move did 1% damage, or a character has .02 more airspeed. Especially with the less-common characters like Pichu.
Syracuse Smash Well someone SHOULD notice that once you get to high %. I just don't think that it's practical to do at a major event. This was supposed to be at locals or something. People can get shadey in all kinds of ways there.
This will never happen at a big event as all main streaming setups are trusted. Furthermore I see no reason to punish the community for what one player did. It was founded by great people who want to see it grow. With this one exception only, every setup in history that has ever been brought to a tournament was brought for love of the game and not to cheat. I say sweep it under the rug instead of making big rules that make things harder for everyone else. Ban the player and strip them of winnings.
Did anyone else think Dan would mind blow us all by saying at the end of the video that the Link or Marth are buffed versions and we couldn't tell the difference at all, or was that just me?
I'm worried about integrity checks as a solution, since those can be patched out just as easily as the character files. It's almost starting to sound like anti-piracy coding. Unfortunately, since rebooting a console will reset it to vanilla and fully re-enable any other hacks, I don't think the best solution will be software-based.
*insert a quote from a anime horror game from this one game store whom was made by the creators of half life and the anime horror game was made by this player whom is playing a green elf who's name isn't in the title in a fighting game made by the creators of mario*
With link and young link you can Z-air out of airdodge. If you airdodge and then press z while airborn he brings out his hookshot which latches onto the stage and is used to help with recovery
nightfighter201 stage mods wouldn't make much of a difference i dont imagine given that whatever they are they could potentially benefit you and as soon as someone uses whatever mod it is people would know its a messed up setup
20xx standard is actually much better for tournaments than 20xx te from my experience. Te is unreliable and can freeze pretty frequently, also some glitches have been demonstrated from the mod
so have people rebalanced the game, or added new characters, or fix hitboxes or something? with all of your know how it seems like the possibilities are endless..
MagicScrumpy has rebalanced some of the cast to make the metagame not about Fox and the characters that don't have a 9/1 matchup against him. He hasn't done everyone, though. Just a couple low tiers and Fox, Falco, and Marth
+TheCoolV (CraftyChicken) Apparently a player in the tournament used a setup mod for his character while playing. (As In a Custom Moveset, or attacks do much more knockback or deal more damage)
It fascinates me to think that all this time he was secretly developing doki doki and nobody knew
MagolorDX so what does that have to do with Melee again lol
Oocities it’s just an interesting fact about the person
@@astoocities Salvato's made a few modes within the melee community during the time DDLC was under everyones radar I believe. key example is the tournament codes for the game.
I'm sure he told some friends or maybe asked for programming help to some people
*loads silly melee*
LMAO
but then everyone's OP
+Our Boy Roy Except for jiggs.
+True trash jiggs Is super op in silly melee
There actually are Silly Melee tournaments out there.
why don't melee players just spend more time on deodorant than modding???
then they would sweat more
Have you smelled the tr4sh community?
+Little Nemo in spain its the same
S A V A G E
+BloowTheSaxo No because they don't reek lmfao
More importantly, DID THE LINK WIN?!
Idk
THATS WHAT I WAS GONNA SAY
I'm surprised that it happened to Melee before Brawl or PM first.
I wouldn't doubt that it's happened in Brawl/PM before, but it wouldn't be as headline-worthy since mods for those games (especially Brawl) were pretty out of control already.
+Dan Salvato Brawl- anyone?
+Kai4life4 brawl - is balanced though
KaiserTheKid That is kind of true. Not that I can disagree though.
+KaiserTheKid metaknight
Aw man I didn't get to see who won.
Ikr? that was some amazing link action
+T◌astG◌ats hello : )
the point
your head
@@ourboyroy9398
The joke
Your head
but who won, link or marth!?
he could have continued playing.
darkfall Kappa
+Minimu5e Stop.
+omario83 LOOOOL
It looks like its a video from earlier where he (Dan) plays Mr.Lz, now a top PM player, on netplay.
You should have low key played with a buffed Link in the video for the meme
This is incredible sad that some poor soul felt the need to use hacks in order to be able and win.
he's probably a Falcon main lmao! jk of course
Well it's almost as bad as all the other people using bugs like wavecheating and fun-cancelling ;)
He plays pichu, thats why it went undetected for a while, not many people are use to pichus moves and what they are supposed to do.
+Spelunky Smash OMG wow now i'll never be sure if this pichu that wrecked me online was cheating or if i just fucking suck. thank you for granting me this last sliver of hope
Hacks would only change local gameplay. Online it would cause a desync since your iso would be unmodded and differ from his. So sorry, you did get destroyed based on skill level.
For once, Pichu was viable :(
he's a weak version of fox that hurts him/herself
+King EpicFace fox?
King EpicFace tell me about pichu's one frame move
+King EpicFace Actually Pikachu is known as "The Poor man Fox"
+Manny Deluna but he's not like fox at all. The saying means pichu is very bad compared to fox.
tl; dw
People can cheat in melee in a lot of ways.
But Dan got us covered.
Just don't allow people to play on their own set-ups and play the top 16 or so on trusted set-ups.
this was at locals.
How does that change anything?
So you don't allow people to play on their own set ups at any local.. How are you going to get a stockpile of trusted set ups? They would have to come from people in the community.. So idk what you mean by this.
+Josef What he means is that players who bring set-ups cannot use the set-up that they brought, which in theory should't let players cheat without the TO being on it. Although I'm not so sure about the second point.
I guess but if you have lets say a pichu on port 4 that is already modded and someone else unknowing uses that setup then they are "cheating" too.
"modifying game files on his setup"
Monika?
lmao
I knew someone would comment this.
Yu Narukami *His*
Yu Narukami I need to admit it, I helped that guy. But only because he is real.
Monika hahhahahahhahahahahahhahahahaha
Love that you look into solving these problems and making them public even if "hacked melee" in a bad light isn't good for you. Thanks and I hope you can put an end to cheaters!
2:20 TO's can load a trusted mod, such as MINE onto all tournament setups...
This is infuriating. I can't believe we didn't get to see the end of the match.
really great video Dan, thought provoking and information filled as always.
Also; to peeps who are wondering who won, given Dan is one of the best Links in the US in both PM and Melee i think its safe to assume he took that stock
I think the simplest way to avoid this is to have players play on other peoples setups. TOs can keep track of who brought what and assign matches to specific setups.
The issue is, what if your friend plays on your setup?
So basically he got banned for making melee balanced
boi
wow dude nice meme
+LifeAsANoob dank
How is this not the top comment?
>Balanced
>Hacked Pichu has 3x larger uair that has full invincibility
I like how the whole video is basically Dan Salvato saying, "Use my mod and support me, there's no other way to solve this problem!"
20XXTE is free so he's kinda just doing a favor
I'm here from Zero's video, and very surprised that you're the Doki Doki creator. Great work man. :)
Who won the game tho
I have your 20XX TE memory card and I'm loving every bit of it!
Great video, too!
I was thinking of getting that. is it OK if u ask you some questions about it?
1:37 Top ten anime foreshadows
Can somebody tell me which tournament this happened in?
One in Toronto forgot the name. it was a pichu player
Monkia is Monika's Nokia
What did the player exactly buff and with what character?
Activation method:
-In Port 4
-Blue Pichu
-Holding down and left on the left stick
-Holding L
Known Changes:
-Pichu falls faster
-Lagless aerial moves/ landing lag
-Down tlit is 1.5 times longer with higher base knockback
-Fsmash higher knockback and was on 1.0 making SDI more difficult
-Modifications only activate for Port 4 Pichu
is this real?
thx
Wow, I didn't think I would find you here Rixer.
Also I still cherish the big "fuck you" you personally gave me in one of your speed runs. ;p
Did they think no one would notice????
Since we're trying to be comprehensive, what about direct modding of the controllers to affect input? Although something like push right/left on d-pad to perform super wave dash as Samus would be easy to spot it's not too difficult to imagine that something more subtle could be added.
Every Dan Salvato post/video ever -
"Hello, my name is Dan Salvato"
"So there is this -insert problem here-"
"This is why it is a problem"
"Here's how we can potentially fix it"
"JK guys, I already figured out a solution for you guys" or "I'm working on a solution already, hahaha"
Very nice video as always Dan, can't wait to see what you come up with (also that link gameplay tho Krey)
What I think a solution might be is to make sure people at tourneys don't play on their own consoles. Maybe have the TOs be able to identify systems them but not the players (maybe don't have the physical gamecube/wii visible) so its possible to mix up people away from their own systems but also return them after the tourney. Also with that integrity check you had mentioned, I think there should be a middleman for moneymatches and if the player is caught with some modifications, the other person instantly wins the money, just for the sake of upsetting the cheater.
So did that marth bring it back?
Wouldn't people notice if someone is hacking? Melee has been out for so long.
They do, but that doesn't mean it isn't a problem. It's more disruptive than anything.
Well, it can be difficult. Mid set, it's hard to notice that a hitbox was slightly longer than usual, or a move did 1% damage, or a character has .02 more airspeed. Especially with the less-common characters like Pichu.
I doubt 1% damage buff or .02 air speed would make a difference. Whatever they change has to be significant to help them win.
It's very significant, considering knockback is calculated after damage, and the highest airspeed in the game is .52 I think?
Syracuse Smash Well someone SHOULD notice that once you get to high %. I just don't think that it's practical to do at a major event. This was supposed to be at locals or something. People can get shadey in all kinds of ways there.
I searched: "Wavedashing is cheating" and this video show up
Wavedashing is not cheating
I can’t get my head around the fact that this melee modder created an amazing game
theres only one way to possibly beat him... play as his character
basically you're making VAC for melee
Man i wish you could have shown to us the entire gameplay, who won? link or marth?
Damn, I'm surprised the Melee community was still able to hang through all of this.
Interesting choice of words
Where's the video at I wanna see what happened.
you realize that if someone who wants to cheat sees this video they'll know how to cheat now, right?
If I were to burn a cop of melee onto another disk, would it work in a normal game cube? If so how would I do that?
We never know who won 😭😭😭
This will never happen at a big event as all main streaming setups are trusted. Furthermore I see no reason to punish the community for what one player did. It was founded by great people who want to see it grow. With this one exception only, every setup in history that has ever been brought to a tournament was brought for love of the game and not to cheat. I say sweep it under the rug instead of making big rules that make things harder for everyone else. Ban the player and strip them of winnings.
Dan, are you referring to APEX 2016?
why not just use sd remix? it makes basically any character viable
WHO IS THAT LINK??
Did anyone else think Dan would mind blow us all by saying at the end of the video that the Link or Marth are buffed versions and we couldn't tell the difference at all, or was that just me?
If an integrity check was to be made. Surely it should include exceptions for character skins
I love the way he says "character".
I'm worried about integrity checks as a solution, since those can be patched out just as easily as the character files. It's almost starting to sound like anti-piracy coding.
Unfortunately, since rebooting a console will reset it to vanilla and fully re-enable any other hacks, I don't think the best solution will be software-based.
Why is this the top link but there's no video of the pichu?
*insert a quote from a anime horror game from this one game store whom was made by the creators of half life and the anime horror game was made by this player whom is playing a green elf who's name isn't in the title in a fighting game made by the creators of mario*
I think getting mods to make low tiers viable should be legal
as do I this would add so much to melee
Not as overpowered as fox, but fixing out some huge, crippling problems.
Nah. Then the game would actually evolve and the players would actually have to change something about how they play and we can't have that near Melee
doesn't ledge-bairing link's hookshot recovery work?
What did the mods do to buff his character and which one did he mod?
how did they figure out he cheated? or did I miss something while watchg and didn't pay attention
The dude who tweaked melee to make project m....created doki doki....holy...fuck
Was too busy watching the match. What'd he say?
couldnt they just change the supposed table you created. perhaps it would be best if you implemented some sort of encryption
Is there recorded footage of the player who cheated? Is that what you were playing while you talked?
So is the hackers match being shown in the video?
WHere can I find this story?
yo where's the follow up video
Where is the news or video about this cheating person?
Is there anywhere I can see this tournament?
do you have any footage of the match?
What if you aren't aloud to use your own set up. This way you would have to collaborate with others to cheat which would be harder to do
Couldn't they just "spoof" (idk if thats the proper word to use) trusted files so thats what the integrity check sees?
Is this the guy who narrated the Smash Bros documentary?
0:39 Was that part of the mod? I thought air dodging left you helpless.
With link and young link you can Z-air out of airdodge. If you airdodge and then press z while airborn he brings out his hookshot which latches onto the stage and is used to help with recovery
Uchiha Madara I didn't even know you could do that out of a dodge. Well guess I learned something new there.
could you also do an integrity check on the stages as well? I feel like that would also be a thing people mess with...
how would you not notice immediately if the stage was modded?
Like let's say they do something like and an invisible Wall or something I dunno
nightfighter201 stage mods wouldn't make much of a difference i dont imagine given that whatever they are they could potentially benefit you and as soon as someone uses whatever mod it is people would know its a messed up setup
Maybe move the kill zone slightly inward/outward depending on your preferences.
BidwellRunner again that wouldn't benefit either player
stage mods are incredibly unlikely but character mods like this seem somewhat possible
Imagine if he got a ditto in the tournament
2:22 lol self plug is great
Who was cheating?
dude why are you such a beast?!?!
I have the perfect setup:
JUST GET GOOD AT THE GAME WKTH NO MODS
How to break this setup:
Be lazy like the whole of the human race
why not check the hash.
First Pokémon and now Melee... urk.. why can't people learn...
Thanks dan
still have ppl bring their own setups, but don't let ppl use the set up they brought.
after watching lil homie's video it's really interesting just how much the cheater had gotten away with modifying pichu
BUT WHO WON
Who cheated?
This is going to be part of history. Mod wars.
lol
Is this the match?
What memory card exploit?
Can you post a link to this ?
20xx standard is actually much better for tournaments than 20xx te from my experience. Te is unreliable and can freeze pretty frequently, also some glitches have been demonstrated from the mod
what kind of glitches? is it fine for friendlies? I wanted to get it for the endless friendlies feature
Time to move to Ultimate.
Why not let the one setup that will be used for finals be a trusted setup
Who won?
Who’s next? You decide!
Wait is the footage shown in this video the tournament set?
No. It involved Pichu.
Im actually never clicking on your vids again because you cut the gameplay short. That's despicable.
my response: who gives a shit? it's only video games.
Very good idea. TE should be used everywhere. This'll only give it another reason to be.
This happened in my scene. Northeastern Pennsylvania
so have people rebalanced the game, or added new characters, or fix hitboxes or something?
with all of your know how it seems like the possibilities are endless..
MagicScrumpy has rebalanced some of the cast to make the metagame not about Fox and the characters that don't have a 9/1 matchup against him. He hasn't done everyone, though. Just a couple low tiers and Fox, Falco, and Marth
what did the guy do?
Take a wild Guess...
+The Discussion Zone I'm sorry if it's blatantly obvious, but I really don't know how he cheated.
+TheCoolV (CraftyChicken)
Apparently a player in the tournament used a setup mod for his character while playing. (As In a Custom Moveset, or attacks do much more knockback or deal more damage)
+The Discussion Zone well, I figured that, but what did he do specifically, like which character did he mod and what did he do?
+TheCoolV (CraftyChicken)
Chaos and he modded pichu (His Main). Gave him less landing lag, more knockback on smash attacks, etc
SAVE US DAN!!