As an older, heavier runner the max cushion shoes are a God send. Ive had knee/ankle injuries in my past and never thought running would be in my future. Hoka has helped me get back out there and run injury free. I think it depends on each person.
I thought I was crazy because I’m a beginner runner and noticed all those issues with highly cushioned shoes over the years. I have tried to become a runner over the last 6 years and each time hit a barrier of leg, knee, & shin pain so stopped after 1-2’months. Each year, I bought a different high end cushioned shoe to help and finally gave up until recently. A couple of months ago, I just started running again with my lightweight everyday shoe. I’ve had no pain and able to run further than ever before. Unfortunately, my shoes were pretty worn so I went out to find me a new pair of official running shoes thinking I’ll run better with more cushion. I immediately developed pains that I had experienced in the past years. All this to say, after watching this video, I now understand that in my case, less cushion works best for me. As a beginner runner (even though I have have been so for so long), this was a great video to truly understand how everyone is different. Reading the promises shoes offer, it can be easy for new runners to not understand the wrong shoes can actually cause pain.
Same! I’ve been running short distances 1-5 miles regularly for 20+ years for the military. Within the past ~7 years I’ve developed significant pain in my right knee which prevents any run over 3 miles. I’ve also dealt with shoulder, neck and lower back pain that all gets amplified by running. About two years ago I ditched my running shoes and began using a pair of VERY worn lo-top Chuck Taylors. While a little uncomfortable at first, that initial pain forced me to recalibrate my entire running form with each step. Within a few weeks, the pain that I felt for years from running had FINALLY begun to subside. Coworkers think I’m mad, but this video definitely helps to explain the “madness”.
Too much cushion is never good for anything. For years I never wore knee-pads at my job and never had a problem, then one day they gave us these really nice, expensive gel-filled pads. I tried them out and was amazed at how comfortable they were, but within a couple of weeks I had pain and discomfort in both knees. Because of the pads I was putting more pounds-per-square-inch on my knees and for longer periods, I just never realized it because of all that cushion. I stopped wearing the pads and after a few weeks the pain was gone.
This is such a well presented video, with a great message that all runners could learn from. So happy you put this great content out. You guys are awesome
I completely changed to zero trop mostly low cushioned shoes. My favourite are the five fingers for easy runs. Love the connection with ground in these minimal shoes
Always ran in ASICS, had good success. I'm older, so I tried Hokas thinking that more cushion would be better. First run, partially tore an achilles after less than a mile. 8 weeks later running in less cushy shoes and things went well. After a year, I tried Asics cushy shoes. First run, strained a soleus, one mile out, walked home. Gave it a couple weeks to heal. Ran today. half a mile out strained the same soleus. I'm just going to run in my old shoes after this heals. No more maximalist shoes for me.
The timing of your video's are crazy. Currently searching for a new pair of road shoes and was leaning towards another pair of hokas as I love my speedgoat 3's. But, as you mentioned, I've noticed my foot strikes are getting louder and never would have thought that the stack height might have a connection to that. So thank you. The search continues lol
What you shared is true if you have an athletic background and do not have any weight issues. Max cushioned shoes are a must for heavy runners (imo) to prevent ankle and plantar injuries because of the sheer amount of force we already place on the feet.
His whole point is that cushy shoes act as a crutch and should be temporary, you have to improve your form and strengthen your feet and ankles to a point when you don't need cushy shoes.
I think for your running early on absolutely wear the shoes you need to support you on your journey. It’s a process! I think for day to day living and other types of workouts is where you have an opportunity to try wearing something else. Good luck!
Tasodek Bro we run for fun and weight loss. It takes too much work, only dedicated runners can afford to put in it. There is no science to shoes. It works or it does not. As simple as that. A less cushioned shoe will kill me and here in India rural kids can run miles upon miles in flip flops. If I try to do that even with all the form training and what not, it will still lead me to surgery. To each his own.
I got into an episode of Synovitis of bilateral knee joints using Hokas, broke the shoe for over 60 miles and after the first half marathon I couldn’t even walk. The biomechanics of the max cushions help the feet,but not the knees. So much force crunch .
Oh my god thank you so much. My feet have been causing me so many problems for some reason lately, im heading to Navy Seal training in the fall and i needed to figure this out. Thank you so much, my prayers have been answered! I kept adding on cushion, trying on over 20 different soles, i reverted back to the first ones i ever got and my life is changed🤩thanks man
Very good advice and well explained . Lots of runner put too much trust on super cushioned shoes , which misled by shoe company profession marketing strategy .
Wow. Such good information. I got a pair of Nike Air Zoom Winflo 6 recently and my run was slow and sloppy the first time I used them. I also got shin splints after that run that I’m still recovering from.
Thank you for discussing this topic. I've gone through a couple pairs (different brands) of very soft/high cushion shoes and have come to the conclusion that you can have too much of a good thing. I'm in my mid-50's. Easing the wear and tear on my knees and reducing knee soreness was my main goal when I bought soft shoes and I think it helped. Interestingly, my knee discomfort seems to have been much more closely tied to eating a high carbohydrate diet with too many simple sugars...the soreness has nearly vanished since experimenting with keto and switching to a low/moderate carbohydrate diet, but that's a different video. The negative aspect of the soft, thick soles for me has been using them on technical trail runs where there are lots of roots, rocks, uneven footing, etc. I think what happens is that as my foot is searching for something solid to push off of, my foot/ankle has to flex just a little bit farther than normal, on account of the squishy sole. This possibly increases my risk of rolling an ankle, and reduces my stability, agility, and safety. Also, "softness" is going to vary from person to person. A soft shoe for a light person might provide sufficient support and response, yet the same shoe might be super squishy and inappropriate/injury inducing for a heavier person. In general, I think using squishy soles too much puts too much unnatural strain on the tendons and ligaments in my feet and ankles. I've relegated my super soft shoes for an occasional short run on the road.
I love my Cliftons and Speedgoats but lately I've been doing some quicker short runs in the NB Zante Pursuit and I really like them. It definitely forces me to focus on my form instead of just mindlessly plodding along. I was having some soreness in my hips and just adding the less cushioned shoes seems to be making a big difference.
Agree 100%. I love my Cliftons and Torrents, but I also like my Altra Instinct and Superiors. I rotate my shoes based on surface and distance to keep myself from getting in a rut.
PERFECT topic! I was just told today, that my less cushioned Saucony Guide 2 are better for me, if I want to avoid injuries. I do miss my cushioned Asics :(
Dr. Sean Bearden has a podcast episode talking about max cushion shoes. They said there was little to no change between max and moderate cushion shoes! Love my Hoka road and trail shoes. Wouldn't say my form got sloppy. I learned to run better imo
I think this has been one of the best videos on this topic in a while. Theres no question about it that running with less cushioned shoes improves running form/technique, but does that doesn't mean lesser cushioned shoes are for everyone/every run situation. Right now I'm running in a very lightly cushioned shoe (Adizero 5) but once my distances go back above 20km/run I'll 100% be switching back to my Brooks Ghosts. For me personally the surface I'm running on plays a big part in it. I can run much loner on technical trails than I can on roads before getting pain irregardless of the shoe.
I got my very first pair of highly cushioned athletic shoes. Prior to them my balance was outstanding (e.g., standing barefoot on the bow of a sailboat for the entirety of a 3 1/2 hr. trip with waves washing over the slippery bow and my bare feet yet I never even wobbled or slipped). However, slowly walking in these super-cushioned soled shoes I constantly lose my balance and have almost fallen over several times every time I walk. I got them for going shopping. I hate them, they are uncomfortable, and I deem them a safety hazard. I WOULD NOT DARE RUN IN THEM. If they weren't so pretty, I would have thrown them in the garbage after the very first wearing.
If you are built like athlete probably you are better off with minimalist shoe. If you are not, cushioned shoes are quite beneficial. You cannot generalize. Everyone is different
galleyman I was starting to have knee problems and it turned out to be a form issue. Going the complete opposite and running in true minimalist I quickly improved my stride and my knee issues have all but disappeared. I transitioned smart and safe with short runs to get a feel for it. It could be the counterintuitive key for you too.
Love this content would like twice if UA-cam allowed it. I’ve been running injury free for about 5-6 years truly barefoot in the summers and with zero drop zero cushion shoes in the winter. My stride and form improved and I got rid of my shin splints and knee issues in just a couple months. Now that I’ve gotten use to a true ground feel I can’t go back.
@dave c Common misconception. Asphalt and concrete are actually a lot smoother than many natural surfaces. Try running on bumpy rocky terrain with some random rocks on it with minimalist shoes or barefoot. It's absolute horrid. The moment you hit asphalt again it's heaven for your feet.
Being used to minimalist shoes and adapting to highly cushioned shoes I agree with everything you've said. I love minimalist shoes for up to 10k, but at least for 20k+ runs either your calfs give in or you just don't want to spend that valuable energy for your natural shock absorption
I'm 6'-5" 235lbs, I recently started using a pair of Hoka's on my runs. They are great for me and I'm very thankful I found a pair in my size (15) Everyone is different find what works for yourself and go with it. Let's not over think it, its simply running at the end of the day.
@The Spammons I've had many injuries from running. I'm not sure what your point is. Mine is that the Hokas I'm using right now feel great on my feet. I'm not blind to the fact that an injury may or most likely will occur again at some point.
In a nutshell, runners need to have shoe rotations. Beginners tend to go with a single do it all pair. A good mix of flats, mild stability and in-betweens is the way to go.
If even beginners don't figure that out by themselves then I don't know what, it's like reality vs ground covered with bubble wrap, especially on everything resembling "uphill", that somehow just feels "wrong" in cushions. If for no other reason, I'd change them just for diversion of my running experience.
I think you need to mix up what shoes you use. For shorter miles use a lower stack height, for longer miles use a higher stack. I m a bigger guy and am considering (with a bit of hesitation) getting some higher stacked shoes for my ultra marathons. I am still going to make sure that my run technique is spot on though.
I saw some recent studies on this matter and they concluded that depending on the shoe you wear ( minimalist or maximalist) you will have a diferent peofile of injurys ( also when people go from a minimalist shoe to maximalist shoe their form tend to be wrong for a couple weeks but after they get used to it they actually run with the same form and parterns). What they suggest is that is good to run various types of shoes like to run a week in more low profile minimalist shoe and two more days in a more maximalist shoe in order to prevent injury and get our body used to diferent types of stimulations.
So true, I'm very happy as i changed my maxi shoes for the Altra Torin, and for speed days I will add the Escalante. Zero drop has been a great change, and my form has improved a lot. (Also use barefoot now on my everyday shoes, and I do a lot of mobility workout)
I do believe my Hoka’s are the reason I’ve injured my heel just doing 5Ks. Originally, I worked my way up to half marathons in minimalistic running shoes without pain.
I have been running 5 km every other day for 1 year. I was using plenty of cushioned shoes. my right foot did not improve. I went to Merrell Barefoot acces flex 2 for 1 month and all my problems are over. never use cushioned shoes again.
Fakir-i pür taksir you sound like me. It seems like it would have been the opposite but it’s been 5-6 years of true minimalist and I’m injury free aside from the occasional blister.
I believe, that soft shoes push the problem away and makes it a lot bigger like your hip replacement or something like that. Which might happen not in a month or two, but more like in 30+ years of running in soft shoes. I think everyone should run barefoot short and easy distances (
I like my hokas for hard tarmac but find that for gravel or trails the extra stack causes more deflection and intability than my traditional asics shoes. I broke my back last year so the cushioning was great on early runs but no substitute for improving strength,flexibility etc
i was a barefoot runner for 15 years. 3-5 miles a day. recently, i started going longer distances (10 miles or more), and my ankles, achilles, and calves were not recovering. so, i bought some cushioned super shoes. my soreness is gone, and recovery is 100% improved. my theory is that we should train barefoot until we develop perfect form, and then go to cushioned shoes. i think if you're a heel striker with bad form, you should ditch the shoes for a few years.
There is nothing wrong with more cushion. The point Coach Nate is making is be aware that max cushion type shoes can hide/mask the niggles and pains caused by poor running form. If you are running with good form in max cushion shoes, they can be a great tool to help prevent injury.
Good question Daryl. I think we want to use these as the powerful tools they are but also spend time in lower cushioned shoes in other workouts and day to day living so that we can safely challenge and strengthen our feet!
Everyone is different so listen to you body but as a true minimalist runner I can tell you the impacts from my stride are much less I take faster shorter strides and land with less force. This would seem even more important to me as a heavy runner. I am a 200lb runner definitely not a twig.
I’m approximately 250 lbs. I’ve tried running in Onclouds, Nike vomero, adidas ultraboost, and I’m currently running in hoka Cliftons. The Hoka cliftons are the most comfortable.
I am a walker and got Hoka bondi shoes to help with knee pain issues but I found the hokas caused foot pain in the ball of the foot after a longer walk and they take a lot more energy in walking motion due to how soft they are. They felt great at first though but then I don't like the lack of foot feel as I walk in them and I feel less stable. So I think it's going to depend on what type of person you are in many areas from weight to the way you body, legs and feet all work as too if you would benefit from a soft show or not.
Your video is great! But weightlifting belt is not a good analogy because the weightlifting belt actually does provide some tactile feedback. Some lifters tend to wear the belt higher on the torso, while others wear it lower, it is unique to each athlete. One may feel that the belt is providing a greater degree of support to lower abs during a lift, which in turn queue's you to focus on keeping that area engaged during a heavy lift (because you essentially have something to push against) and then to focus on strengthening that "weaker" area with other exercises inside your fitness program.
Chris Olson TV that is a good point and something I’ve seen happen for sure with weight belts re: tactile cue. I still think there is a danger of over relying on belts and NOT using it to cue the right kind of stability.
After 3 different pairs of big cushion shoes I came to this conclusion as well. I have a pair of neutral shoes that I’ve been eyeing because it’s painful. I know it will require time to get used to it but in the long run will be better. The cushion shoes absolutely feel like I’m hunting for the ground!
I wonder if that is why my feet hurt after running in my new shoes. I have flat feet with a bunion. Last year, I was put in a stability shoe New Balance 860v9. Loved them. This year the newer version v10 is heavier and making my foot hurt. I'm wonder if it's the cushion.
I worked with a guy who had flat feet and went to a barefoot style shoe. With no support his foot strength increased and he developed a stronger arch and foot. Second hand anecdotal evidence I know but worth looking into.
I was told by my foot doctors that stability and motion control are better for severe over pronators or flat feet that overpronate. People with nornal arch can do well with less stability and they have better chances to respond mechanically to floor impact as opposed to overpronators. I have really flat feet and when I dont use stability shoes my feet roll in making it painful and stressful for my fert to land. However, I do like once in a while use neutral shoes because it does provide the flexibility my feet need.
I have rock hard traditional leather boots, plush cushioned modern running shoes, minimally cushioned barefoot shoes and something in between. I'm not sure which is better for my body, but I walk and run differently in each, and my feet do ache more after a day with less cushioning.
Oh, this is a really important information and advice to runners like me who have always been searching for highly cushioned shoes. (I have been a huge fan of Hoka One One Clifton lines as well. And recently I've added New Balance Freshfoam 1080 V10 and Saucony Triumph 17). With those ultimately cushioned shoes, as coach Nate pointed out, I have felt kind of fully equipped or secured enough to go further distance with much less pain than in minimal shoes. However, I've kind of tended to ignore achy joints or muscles by using those gear. I need to heed coach Nate's advice this year. 👍🙏❤️ Thanks a lot for sharing the critical information!
I had issues using cushioned shoes that seems to have been fixed moving to minimal. I started using vibram 5 fingers but it was a bit to hardcore for me however, I discovered the altra escalate racer and have never looked back.
Great video. I always wear barefoot shoes (VivoBarefoot) day-to-day simply because I love the feel of the ground. I don’t run in them any more - I now run in Altra Escalante Racers (with the insole taken out) which give me a nice, firm platform to land on that gives me a little bit of cushion without taking away any of the sense of stability and ground-feel. I find softer cushioning to be much more tiring for my legs and feet as they’re working so hard trying to get a sense of where the ground is and how to get a feeling of stability. I tried on some Hoka’s and couldn’t stop laughing - they were like trampolines. Maybe one day when I am able to run longer distances I’ll find a place in my running for more cushioning.
Cushioned shoes absolutely ruined me. I couldn't find a way to avoid shin splints and ankle pain while using them. When I switched back to firmer shoes, so did the shin splints and ankle pain.
Maybe the cushioning wasnt enough on the ones you tried. Maximalist shoes are the best to prevent injuries just like running barefoot on the beach. The max cushion replicates the softness of running on the beach even on asphalt, so it's much better than minimalist or barefoot
Gymnastics was originally performed on hard surfaces but wisely implemented flexible floorboards. Regardless of form , each runner's weight, is what it is. I would conclude that extra cush would give extra benefits. Great topic and well researched.
I am a heavy guy. I started out with hikes using medium stack height trail shoes with 3mm drop. I consciously know or at least think that this will improve my ankle (muscle and therefore stability). Also to improve my base endurance amongst other things. I avoid roads and pavements on purpose. Longest hike maybe around 4 hours. And did this around 2 months. Then I bought road running shoes (max cushion) for my longer runs and min. cushion for my speed workout. I started out on the track first. Still avoiding roads and pavements. I still go for hikes. And did the track runs maybe for one month. Then I've moved on to actual roads now. I still hike, run on tracks and then now on roads. No injuries so far apart from the typical muscle soreness. In my opinion heavier people need to progress slowly and understand and listen to their body. I'm a nerd so I'm the type who research things first before I do things. If I didn't, I just know I would get injured.
Took your advice and ran a 10k race I signed up for as a fun run in shoes with minimal cushion. I noticed my form was way better and my legs felt great the next day. I am not a small runner at all.
Would this be true if I wore the Altra Olympus every day at work. I ask because after about a year of wearing I have developed joint pain in my toe joints. Right where the door bends. I alternate between these and the Timp 2.
Just looking at this after having a start of foot injury after getting Hoka mach 3 and running 2 half marathons ... despite making it easier to run and responsive light shoes , however acute pain in my left foot small toes phalanges after each long run, got them couple of months ago and thinking of getting rid of them ... knowing that running with less cushioned shoes in the past didn't cause injury including running a marathon. My wife got a stress fracture with hoka clifton as well! I never made the connection thinking it was "just a running injury"
Keep max cushioned shoes for easy, recovery runs. Use different shoes, with different heel drops, try running barefoot on grass, run on trails, include hills. Basically don't let your legs/feet get used to one model of running shoe and one type of surface (e.g. flat tarmac). That way you're building really strong feet/legs, essentialy minimising risk of an injury. Lastly, do it gradually, with lower drop shoes, start with short runs, rotate your shoes, do little bit of walking barefoot on grass before doing some runs. Your running form will improve as a result. Stay healthy and don't fall into a marketing trap of this trend to do all your runs in max cushion shoe...
I ran with minimalist shoes for the last 8 years. A friend introduced me to Hoka shoes. They look enormous and highly cushioned. But I tried anyway. What a mistake! I have never had plantar fasciitis all my running life, but since trying Hoka shoes just for a week, I suffered the pain. Never leave my minimalist shoes again.
Last two pair of shoes were hoka Clifton 4 and 6. Just got the triumph 17s and noticed my heel started hurting. I was wondering if the rocker plate thing weakened some muscles? Need to watch out of PF
Hello, so I have been in a stability shoe for the past 6 months (ASICS 2000 8) and recently bought a neutral shoe (Saucony Kinvara 11) at the advice of the sales rep after a gate analysis. But now in the Kinvara my gate feels weird, like my right foot is rolling out to the side when I walk or run. I don’t over pronate, but my right hip is a little weak which I think causes my right foot to turn out a little. I’ve been working on strengthening this. Anyway, should I keep with the neutral shoe and hope my gate starts to feel more balanced, or should I go back to my stability shoes? Thanks!
Thank you for yet another very insightful video! I am a runner pushing 50, and about 20 lbs over my ideal running weight (6'3" 192 lbs). I have been an on again of again runner for about the last 5 years. Seems like I'd get injured, or lazy, or a combination of the two. Last June I started seriously focusing on running again and intentionally started back slow to avoid injury. Was doing well until I started going from 3-4 days a week to 4-5 days with some moderately increased mileage. Due to previous injuries, I have been running in higher cushioned shoes. Mid December, I got a very bad case of plantar fascia, and have not been able to do anything more than walk yet. Have I been approaching this wrong with thinking I need more cushion to help prevent the PF issues? I have extremely high arches according to my podiatrist. If I am understanding your videos, it sounds like higher cushioned shoes might be hindering me more than helping. Thoughts?
I have extremely high arches too, and suspect the super cushy Speedgoat 4 of stretching out the tendon under my longer left foot, causing plantar fasciitis. Now I'm wearing firmer cushioning and am not experiencing any plantar fasciitis.
Question; The force on the impact pad may be greater with a soft shoe (I am not sure how this can be true, but let's say it is.) What is really important is not the force on the pad but the force being transferred up the body on impact. If the actual force on the body is less then what is the issue? The force on the body is inversely proportional to the time for the foot to come to rest after impact. By adding cushioning you increase this time interval and thereby decrease the amount of force being transferred to the body. So what am I getting wrong?
Agree 100% with this vid. I bought a pair of Hokas on a flyer (under $80) and they're like running in bags of dough. Harder on my legs, longer contact with the ground, unstable ride, esp on anything other than tarmac. I just made them into walkaround shoes.
Without a standardized weight vs distance of compression, stack height and cushioning numbers dont mean that much. So a good shoe for 65kg may be very different for a 80kg runner. Shoes were once described to me as : soft/thick sole requires a stiff foot for stability & control and thin/firm sole needs a soft & flexible foot for stability & control.
I have tried super cushioned shoes. I tried the triumph and they felt weird I could hardly feel the ground. I do want some cushion, but I want some sensation in the ground when running this is why I like daily trainers like the brooks adernaline or the saucony ride 16. I can still feel the ground, but I have enough cushion to protect my feet from the concrete.
Cool, that's my trail combo, Superiors and Timps for shorter and longer efforts! Then I've got an equivalent for road, Escalante Racers and Zephyrs (Topo). Felt I needed a bit of heel/toe offset to try and give my calves a break on the longer road runs :)
Im a heavy runner at 215. Cushioned helps me, yet i cant run in high stack height. NB balance rebel v3 are cushioned yet lower stack height and 6mm drop works for me
I use Altra Torin for runs less than an hour and use Hoka Clifftons for runs longer than an hour. I think they both serve a purpose and switching them up is helpful. I did 2 Ironman marathons: one in Torins and one in Cliftons. I actually had more pain in the Cliftons than the Torins. I suspect that when my form got bad I was able to slug through it because the Hokas were so comfortable that I was able to get away with the bad form during the run. But I paid in pain the next day. Not so much in the Torin shoe.
It's all about mixing it up. I use max cushion shoes for my 35 kms easy run just because i want something comfy and cushy. I use my reebok floatride fast for my uptempo 10 kms runs. And i run tails as well. I've done a 35 kms in my thin speedy shoes once and believe me it wasn't fun and my feet and joints didn't enjoy it ! To each run its shoe.
I have watched a ton of your videos and have become a better runner because of them. I had to go to Hoka's or I wouldn't be able to run at all. Of course I was walking with the aid of a walker 3 years ago because of Myasthenia Gravis until I learned better eating and drinking practices. My feet were not used like this for many years. I started out trying different shoes but my feet hurt and I almost give up trying to run, then my son bought the Hoka Arahi's which eliminated his knee pain. I bought a pair and have been running since.
I suspect my Hoka Speedgoat 4's of causing my recent plantar fasciitis, by letting my arch stretch out too much. I'm using much firmer cushioning now, in the New Balance 1165 and the New Balance 1350. I have been walking, by the way, not running.
Hi thx for your video. It’s about my current search for answers. I’ve been struggling with a Morten’s Neuroma injury. I walk/run about km30-50 per day. The only shoe that has worked for me this year is my Altra Paradigm 6 but I’m now wondering if a softer foam and more stack height is better to absorb the impacted like the 30-33mm stack height Ego Max from the P6 or Via Olympus or is the Ego foam and 25mm stack height from the Lone Peak, Rivera or Escalante better combined with my custom made orthopedic inner soles. I am scheduled for that operation but my foot is getting better and I just feel like I prefer to manage my foot pain over gotten a operation which only has a 50/50 success rate. I don’t want to end up with more pain if my op is not a success. I mean if I can walk/run now km30 per day it’s not to bad and I’m sure the right shoes would further aid my recovery and or make it more manageable. Thx for your opinion and reply. And have a blessed Xmas
Can’t go running on any kind of shoe without learning proper form or biomechanics. However I do acknowledge that there is some effect on the gait cycle when a certain type of shoe is on. Shoe companies should I think put warnings labels on their shoe boxes to learn proper running form/ techniques when using their product.
I dont know what the hell the shoe industry has been doing the last 40 years. Young children wear shoes with 5mm drop or even more in some shoes and with cushioned shoes. This will affect people how they walk and run. Things need to change in my mind in the whole shoe industri for a more natural walking and running with a more flat shoe with no drop!
Great video! Not sure am I ready but next summer I would like to try barefeet runs on the track, I've been fan of Hoka Clifton5 but realised something when I was having my last longish 22km on ice and wearing Asics with those nails and with minimal cushion.
Guys, run on your toes. Not only does it prevent injury, but with max cushioning you get so much bounce and increase in stride. It's not the shoes. It's your form.
Would like to see some more research and more scientific articles that strengthens your argument. Without that, it’s is just a personal opinion or theory. 🙂 I’ve been searching for science that indicates a decrease of muscle strength and activity from using soft orthosis- but there was none that could show a significant result 😊 This feels like a similar subject.
Sadly, science is often slow to pick up on issues. Funding etc., so we just have to wait. I've only seen anecdotal evidence and mixed opinions. In my case, I bought some reasonably cushioned shoes and found they caused knee pain. I could feel an increase in workload in the forefoot. Felt like I had the breaks on. Even walking was painful. Put my firmer shoes back on (Pegagus 40) and the pain went away immediately. Over the following days, I noticed a dull ache in my patellar tendon. Can't find an explanation for it. My theory is that the extra cushioning is eliminating the heal drop (both shoes 10mm). Feels as if there's no drop at moment of foot strike (in the cushioned shoe), then a kind of climbing up over the forefoot.
I know that there is scientific research about this, i've done research myself (i work as an orthopedic technician) and the results is that its not possible to prove any increased risk of injury. Personally I use the Hoka Chlifton and have for 2 years in marathon training and it works well for me. I am a midfoot striker and i prefer a low drop and a rocker sole ( which often helps to deload the forefoot). So my conclusion is that it's not the cushion thats the problem, but not all shoes works for all people. There are significantly more parameters that come into play in choosing the right shoe. And I don't think its right to state something in a video that has so many views without facts :) @@toby9999
As a non-competitive runner, I mostly run for fun and fitness. For this, minimalist shoes are definitely my choice. I always run in Vibram Five Fingers, my favorite model being the KSO Evo. Short sprints are great in these.
Thx i started doing that slowly after coming off hoka bondi to hoka clifton and adidas boston 8 my go to, feel so much better the only thing is i feel better in higher stack high shoes what is your opinion on stack hights Nate? All the Best!
Do you think max cushioned shoes put more load on the tibia? I've noticed the last few runs in max cushioned shoes on a soft surface made my whole tibia ache.
Definitely in my case. Some, I have found are super unstable because of the stack height. I have had 2 tibial stress fractures in 12 months and my strong sense is the Zoomfly I was using put too much lateral load on the tibia. I am going back to the type of shoes I wore before.
Its been well documented and proven that max cushion shoes do not alter gait. Its also been proven that they dont protect joints as they encourage greater force in your step whoch is worse for joints. They do however help with leg muscle fatigue.
Hoka's are aweful! After a couple years of wearing them, I started having constant pain in both feet. Once I stopped wearing them and switched to a less cushioned shoe pain went away.
question after my run ill put a barefoot style shoe on for another-1-2 miles. should i be doing full runs in barefoot shoes. also should i look for something in between 5 fingers and hoka for my runs. maybe 16-18 mm stack height
As an older, heavier runner the max cushion shoes are a God send. Ive had knee/ankle injuries in my past and never thought running would be in my future. Hoka has helped me get back out there and run injury free. I think it depends on each person.
Same here. I couldn't run if I didn't wear Hoka's.
Agree
Funny, all my knee/hip/ankle problems disappeared when I switched to barefoot shoes. But I had to change the way I run for that.
@Cindy lou Betris Skecher's max cushioning comes in wide sizes.
@@EwaldDieser just out of curiosity how much do you run in barefoot shoes because I ran barefoot and actually got a stress fracture
I thought I was crazy because I’m a beginner runner and noticed all those issues with highly cushioned shoes over the years. I have tried to become a runner over the last 6 years and each time hit a barrier of leg, knee, & shin pain so stopped after 1-2’months. Each year, I bought a different high end cushioned shoe to help and finally gave up until recently. A couple of months ago, I just started running again with my lightweight everyday shoe. I’ve had no pain and able to run further than ever before. Unfortunately, my shoes were pretty worn so I went out to find me a new pair of official running shoes thinking I’ll run better with more cushion. I immediately developed pains that I had experienced in the past years. All this to say, after watching this video, I now understand that in my case, less cushion works best for me. As a beginner runner (even though I have have been so for so long), this was a great video to truly understand how everyone is different. Reading the promises shoes offer, it can be easy for new runners to not understand the wrong shoes can actually cause pain.
Same! I’ve been running short distances 1-5 miles regularly for 20+ years for the military. Within the past ~7 years I’ve developed significant pain in my right knee which prevents any run over 3 miles. I’ve also dealt with shoulder, neck and lower back pain that all gets amplified by running. About two years ago I ditched my running shoes and began using a pair of VERY worn lo-top Chuck Taylors. While a little uncomfortable at first, that initial pain forced me to recalibrate my entire running form with each step. Within a few weeks, the pain that I felt for years from running had FINALLY begun to subside. Coworkers think I’m mad, but this video definitely helps to explain the “madness”.
Ok, I love my Hokas . As soon as I found my Clifton’s and Bondis I have added many, many miles without irritating my knees.
Too much cushion is never good for anything. For years I never wore knee-pads at my job and never had a problem, then one day they gave us these really nice, expensive gel-filled pads. I tried them out and was amazed at how comfortable they were, but within a couple of weeks I had pain and discomfort in both knees. Because of the pads I was putting more pounds-per-square-inch on my knees and for longer periods, I just never realized it because of all that cushion. I stopped wearing the pads and after a few weeks the pain was gone.
@The Spammons Air freight handler.
This is such a well presented video, with a great message that all runners could learn from. So happy you put this great content out. You guys are awesome
I completely changed to zero trop mostly low cushioned shoes. My favourite are the five fingers for easy runs. Love the connection with ground in these minimal shoes
Always ran in ASICS, had good success. I'm older, so I tried Hokas thinking that more cushion would be better. First run, partially tore an achilles after less than a mile. 8 weeks later running in less cushy shoes and things went well. After a year, I tried Asics cushy shoes. First run, strained a soleus, one mile out, walked home. Gave it a couple weeks to heal. Ran today. half a mile out strained the same soleus. I'm just going to run in my old shoes after this heals. No more maximalist shoes for me.
Can you suggest some good shoe models for regular running. I'm preparing for 1600 meter race
Agree, as a coach I say the same thing. I have a pair of more
Minimalist short mileage shoes and a pair of maximalist long mileage shoes
Jacob Wolf glad to hear it!
The timing of your video's are crazy. Currently searching for a new pair of road shoes and was leaning towards another pair of hokas as I love my speedgoat 3's. But, as you mentioned, I've noticed my foot strikes are getting louder and never would have thought that the stack height might have a connection to that. So thank you. The search continues lol
Heel striker and mid foot runner might have different opinion about this issue
What you shared is true if you have an athletic background and do not have any weight issues. Max cushioned shoes are a must for heavy runners (imo) to prevent ankle and plantar injuries because of the sheer amount of force we already place on the feet.
His whole point is that cushy shoes act as a crutch and should be temporary, you have to improve your form and strengthen your feet and ankles to a point when you don't need cushy shoes.
I think for your running early on absolutely wear the shoes you need to support you on your journey. It’s a process! I think for day to day living and other types of workouts is where you have an opportunity to try wearing something else. Good luck!
Tasodek Bro we run for fun and weight loss. It takes too much work, only dedicated runners can afford to put in it.
There is no science to shoes. It works or it does not. As simple as that.
A less cushioned shoe will kill me and here in India rural kids can run miles upon miles in flip flops. If I try to do that even with all the form training and what not, it will still lead me to surgery.
To each his own.
I got plantar fasciitis because of my cushioned shoes. Minimalist shoes have helped me build up strength in my feet since then.
I got into an episode of Synovitis of bilateral knee joints using Hokas, broke the shoe for over 60 miles and after the first half marathon I couldn’t even walk. The biomechanics of the max cushions help the feet,but not the knees. So much force crunch .
Oh my god thank you so much. My feet have been causing me so many problems for some reason lately, im heading to Navy Seal training in the fall and i needed to figure this out. Thank you so much, my prayers have been answered! I kept adding on cushion, trying on over 20 different soles, i reverted back to the first ones i ever got and my life is changed🤩thanks man
Very good advice and well explained . Lots of runner put too much trust on super cushioned shoes , which misled by shoe company profession marketing strategy .
Wow. Such good information. I got a pair of Nike Air Zoom Winflo 6 recently and my run was slow and sloppy the first time I used them. I also got shin splints after that run that I’m still recovering from.
Point on. I train minimal (30% in vibrams, nb minimusor barefoot) and race maximal (Hoka, Altra, Topo). 12 years injury free.
Thank you for discussing this topic. I've gone through a couple pairs (different brands) of very soft/high cushion shoes and have come to the conclusion that you can have too much of a good thing.
I'm in my mid-50's. Easing the wear and tear on my knees and reducing knee soreness was my main goal when I bought soft shoes and I think it helped. Interestingly, my knee discomfort seems to have been much more closely tied to eating a high carbohydrate diet with too many simple sugars...the soreness has nearly vanished since experimenting with keto and switching to a low/moderate carbohydrate diet, but that's a different video.
The negative aspect of the soft, thick soles for me has been using them on technical trail runs where there are lots of roots, rocks, uneven footing, etc. I think what happens is that as my foot is searching for something solid to push off of, my foot/ankle has to flex just a little bit farther than normal, on account of the squishy sole. This possibly increases my risk of rolling an ankle, and reduces my stability, agility, and safety.
Also, "softness" is going to vary from person to person. A soft shoe for a light person might provide sufficient support and response, yet the same shoe might be super squishy and inappropriate/injury inducing for a heavier person.
In general, I think using squishy soles too much puts too much unnatural strain on the tendons and ligaments in my feet and ankles. I've relegated my super soft shoes for an occasional short run on the road.
Best video about this topic I have found so far
I love my Cliftons and Speedgoats but lately I've been doing some quicker short runs in the NB Zante Pursuit and I really like them. It definitely forces me to focus on my form instead of just mindlessly plodding along.
I was having some soreness in my hips and just adding the less cushioned shoes seems to be making a big difference.
Agree 100%. I love my Cliftons and Torrents, but I also like my Altra Instinct and Superiors. I rotate my shoes based on surface and distance to keep myself from getting in a rut.
PERFECT topic! I was just told today, that my less cushioned Saucony Guide 2 are better for me, if I want to avoid injuries. I do miss my cushioned Asics :(
Dr. Sean Bearden has a podcast episode talking about max cushion shoes. They said there was little to no change between max and moderate cushion shoes! Love my Hoka road and trail shoes. Wouldn't say my form got sloppy. I learned to run better imo
I think this has been one of the best videos on this topic in a while. Theres no question about it that running with less cushioned shoes improves running form/technique, but does that doesn't mean lesser cushioned shoes are for everyone/every run situation. Right now I'm running in a very lightly cushioned shoe (Adizero 5) but once my distances go back above 20km/run I'll 100% be switching back to my Brooks Ghosts. For me personally the surface I'm running on plays a big part in it. I can run much loner on technical trails than I can on roads before getting pain irregardless of the shoe.
Really interesting video... definitely food for thought!
I got my very first pair of highly cushioned athletic shoes. Prior to them my balance was outstanding (e.g., standing barefoot on the bow of a sailboat for the entirety of a 3 1/2 hr. trip with waves washing over the slippery bow and my bare feet yet I never even wobbled or slipped). However, slowly walking in these super-cushioned soled shoes I constantly lose my balance and have almost fallen over several times every time I walk.
I got them for going shopping. I hate them, they are uncomfortable, and I deem them a safety hazard.
I WOULD NOT DARE RUN IN THEM. If they weren't so pretty, I would have thrown them in the garbage after the very first wearing.
If you are built like athlete probably you are better off with minimalist shoe. If you are not, cushioned shoes are quite beneficial.
You cannot generalize. Everyone is different
I have achy knees occasionally, I’ve find my hoka cavus to be the first Shoes that really help my run be completely comfortable.
galleyman I was starting to have knee problems and it turned out to be a form issue. Going the complete opposite and running in true minimalist I quickly improved my stride and my knee issues have all but disappeared. I transitioned smart and safe with short runs to get a feel for it. It could be the counterintuitive key for you too.
Love this content would like twice if UA-cam allowed it. I’ve been running injury free for about 5-6 years truly barefoot in the summers and with zero drop zero cushion shoes in the winter. My stride and form improved and I got rid of my shin splints and knee issues in just a couple months. Now that I’ve gotten use to a true ground feel I can’t go back.
Hobby Timmy same experience here.
@dave c Common misconception. Asphalt and concrete are actually a lot smoother than many natural surfaces. Try running on bumpy rocky terrain with some random rocks on it with minimalist shoes or barefoot. It's absolute horrid. The moment you hit asphalt again it's heaven for your feet.
@dave c Not true. The human body can absolutely handle running on asphalt without cushion. Your closed mindset prevents it from doing so.
Being used to minimalist shoes and adapting to highly cushioned shoes I agree with everything you've said. I love minimalist shoes for up to 10k, but at least for 20k+ runs either your calfs give in or you just don't want to spend that valuable energy for your natural shock absorption
I went from New Balance to a set of Hoka Bondi's and my shins completely failed over half a triathlon season. I've been almost a year recovering.
I'm 6'-5" 235lbs, I recently started using a pair of Hoka's on my runs. They are great for me and I'm very thankful I found a pair in my size (15)
Everyone is different find what works for yourself and go with it. Let's not over think it, its simply running at the end of the day.
@The Spammons I've had many injuries from running. I'm not sure what your point is. Mine is that the Hokas I'm using right now feel great on my feet. I'm not blind to the fact that an injury may or most likely will occur again at some point.
@The Spammons I have not,but I'm open to trying it out to help strengthen my feet
In a nutshell, runners need to have shoe rotations. Beginners tend to go with a single do it all pair. A good mix of flats, mild stability and in-betweens is the way to go.
If even beginners don't figure that out by themselves then I don't know what, it's like reality vs ground covered with bubble wrap, especially on everything resembling "uphill", that somehow just feels "wrong" in cushions. If for no other reason, I'd change them just for diversion of my running experience.
I think you need to mix up what shoes you use. For shorter miles use a lower stack height, for longer miles use a higher stack. I m a bigger guy and am considering (with a bit of hesitation) getting some higher stacked shoes for my ultra marathons. I am still going to make sure that my run technique is spot on though.
I saw some recent studies on this matter and they concluded that depending on the shoe you wear ( minimalist or maximalist) you will have a diferent peofile of injurys ( also when people go from a minimalist shoe to maximalist shoe their form tend to be wrong for a couple weeks but after they get used to it they actually run with the same form and parterns). What they suggest is that is good to run various types of shoes like to run a week in more low profile minimalist shoe and two more days in a more maximalist shoe in order to prevent injury and get our body used to diferent types of stimulations.
I do the same I go from vibram five fingers to hokas .. never same pair unless is a race ... and I feel stronger than ever !!
So true, I'm very happy as i changed my maxi shoes for the Altra Torin, and for speed days I will add the Escalante. Zero drop has been a great change, and my form has improved a lot. (Also use barefoot now on my everyday shoes, and I do a lot of mobility workout)
I do believe my Hoka’s are the reason I’ve injured my heel just doing 5Ks. Originally, I worked my way up to half marathons in minimalistic running shoes without pain.
Really interesting video - I am a HOKA fan but clearly I must not be a blind fanatic
one of the best if not the best running channel!
Wow. Thanks for the high praise!!
I have been running 5 km every other day for 1 year. I was using plenty of cushioned shoes. my right foot did not improve. I went to Merrell Barefoot acces flex 2 for 1 month and all my problems are over. never use cushioned shoes again.
Fakir-i pür taksir you sound like me. It seems like it would have been the opposite but it’s been 5-6 years of true minimalist and I’m injury free aside from the occasional blister.
Barefoot 🦶 rocks !
I believe, that soft shoes push the problem away and makes it a lot bigger like your hip replacement or something like that. Which might happen not in a month or two, but more like in 30+ years of running in soft shoes. I think everyone should run barefoot short and easy distances (
I like my hokas for hard tarmac but find that for gravel or trails the extra stack causes more deflection and intability than my traditional asics shoes. I broke my back last year so the cushioning was great on early runs but no substitute for improving strength,flexibility etc
i was a barefoot runner for 15 years. 3-5 miles a day. recently, i started going longer distances (10 miles or more), and my ankles, achilles, and calves were not recovering. so, i bought some cushioned super shoes. my soreness is gone, and recovery is 100% improved. my theory is that we should train barefoot until we develop perfect form, and then go to cushioned shoes. i think if you're a heel striker with bad form, you should ditch the shoes for a few years.
What about an overweight runner such as myself? Isn’t it safer, as far as injury prevention, to have more cushion?
There is nothing wrong with more cushion. The point Coach Nate is making is be aware that max cushion type shoes can hide/mask the niggles and pains caused by poor running form. If you are running with good form in max cushion shoes, they can be a great tool to help prevent injury.
Good question Daryl. I think we want to use these as the powerful tools they are but also spend time in lower cushioned shoes in other workouts and day to day living so that we can safely challenge and strengthen our feet!
Everyone is different so listen to you body but as a true minimalist runner I can tell you the impacts from my stride are much less I take faster shorter strides and land with less force. This would seem even more important to me as a heavy runner. I am a 200lb runner definitely not a twig.
I’m approximately 250 lbs. I’ve tried running in Onclouds, Nike vomero, adidas ultraboost, and I’m currently running in hoka Cliftons. The Hoka cliftons are the most comfortable.
I am a walker and got Hoka bondi shoes to help with knee pain issues but I found the hokas caused foot pain in the ball of the foot after a longer walk and they take a lot more energy in walking motion due to how soft they are. They felt great at first though but then I don't like the lack of foot feel as I walk in them and I feel less stable. So I think it's going to depend on what type of person you are in many areas from weight to the way you body, legs and feet all work as too if you would benefit from a soft show or not.
Your video is great! But weightlifting belt is not a good analogy because the weightlifting belt actually does provide some tactile feedback. Some lifters tend to wear the belt higher on the torso, while others wear it lower, it is unique to each athlete. One may feel that the belt is providing a greater degree of support to lower abs during a lift, which in turn queue's you to focus on keeping that area engaged during a heavy lift (because you essentially have something to push against) and then to focus on strengthening that "weaker" area with other exercises inside your fitness program.
Chris Olson TV that is a good point and something I’ve seen happen for sure with weight belts re: tactile cue. I still think there is a danger of over relying on belts and NOT using it to cue the right kind of stability.
@@TheRunExperience Agreed. I was describing experienced power lifters... which is not most people. Your content is awesome! Thank you.
After 3 different pairs of big cushion shoes I came to this conclusion as well. I have a pair of neutral shoes that I’ve been eyeing because it’s painful. I know it will require time to get used to it but in the long run will be better. The cushion shoes absolutely feel like I’m hunting for the ground!
I wonder if that is why my feet hurt after running in my new shoes. I have flat feet with a bunion. Last year, I was put in a stability shoe New Balance 860v9. Loved them. This year the newer version v10 is heavier and making my foot hurt. I'm wonder if it's the cushion.
I worked with a guy who had flat feet and went to a barefoot style shoe. With no support his foot strength increased and he developed a stronger arch and foot. Second hand anecdotal evidence I know but worth looking into.
@@OldManTim Thank you for sharing this story. That's very interesting.
I was told by my foot doctors that stability and motion control are better for severe over pronators or flat feet that overpronate. People with nornal arch can do well with less stability and they have better chances to respond mechanically to floor impact as opposed to overpronators. I have really flat feet and when I dont use stability shoes my feet roll in making it painful and stressful for my fert to land. However, I do like once in a while use neutral shoes because it does provide the flexibility my feet need.
I have rock hard traditional leather boots, plush cushioned modern running shoes, minimally cushioned barefoot shoes and something in between. I'm not sure which is better for my body, but I walk and run differently in each, and my feet do ache more after a day with less cushioning.
Oh, this is a really important information and advice to runners like me who have always been searching for highly cushioned shoes. (I have been a huge fan of Hoka One One Clifton lines as well. And recently I've added New Balance Freshfoam 1080 V10 and Saucony Triumph 17). With those ultimately cushioned shoes, as coach Nate pointed out, I have felt kind of fully equipped or secured enough to go further distance with much less pain than in minimal shoes. However, I've kind of tended to ignore achy joints or muscles by using those gear. I need to heed coach Nate's advice this year. 👍🙏❤️ Thanks a lot for sharing the critical information!
I had issues using cushioned shoes that seems to have been fixed moving to minimal. I started using vibram 5 fingers but it was a bit to hardcore for me however, I discovered the altra escalate racer and have never looked back.
Great video. I always wear barefoot shoes (VivoBarefoot) day-to-day simply because I love the feel of the ground. I don’t run in them any more - I now run in Altra Escalante Racers (with the insole taken out) which give me a nice, firm platform to land on that gives me a little bit of cushion without taking away any of the sense of stability and ground-feel. I find softer cushioning to be much more tiring for my legs and feet as they’re working so hard trying to get a sense of where the ground is and how to get a feeling of stability. I tried on some Hoka’s and couldn’t stop laughing - they were like trampolines. Maybe one day when I am able to run longer distances I’ll find a place in my running for more cushioning.
Cushioned shoes absolutely ruined me. I couldn't find a way to avoid shin splints and ankle pain while using them. When I switched back to firmer shoes, so did the shin splints and ankle pain.
Maybe the cushioning wasnt enough on the ones you tried. Maximalist shoes are the best to prevent injuries just like running barefoot on the beach. The max cushion replicates the softness of running on the beach even on asphalt, so it's much better than minimalist or barefoot
Gymnastics was originally performed on hard surfaces but wisely implemented flexible floorboards.
Regardless of form , each runner's weight, is what it is.
I would conclude that extra cush would give extra benefits.
Great topic and well researched.
I am a heavy guy. I started out with hikes using medium stack height trail shoes with 3mm drop. I consciously know or at least think that this will improve my ankle (muscle and therefore stability). Also to improve my base endurance amongst other things. I avoid roads and pavements on purpose. Longest hike maybe around 4 hours. And did this around 2 months.
Then I bought road running shoes (max cushion) for my longer runs and min. cushion for my speed workout. I started out on the track first. Still avoiding roads and pavements. I still go for hikes. And did the track runs maybe for one month.
Then I've moved on to actual roads now. I still hike, run on tracks and then now on roads. No injuries so far apart from the typical muscle soreness.
In my opinion heavier people need to progress slowly and understand and listen to their body. I'm a nerd so I'm the type who research things first before I do things. If I didn't, I just know I would get injured.
Would you upload a video about normal pronation, overpronation, and underpronation, and recommended shoes for each type of pronation?
Took your advice and ran a 10k race I signed up for as a fun run in shoes with minimal cushion. I noticed my form was way better and my legs felt great the next day. I am not a small runner at all.
Would this be true if I wore the Altra Olympus every day at work. I ask because after about a year of wearing I have developed joint pain in my toe joints. Right where the door bends. I alternate between these and the Timp 2.
Just looking at this after having a start of foot injury after getting Hoka mach 3 and running 2 half marathons ... despite making it easier to run and responsive light shoes , however acute pain in my left foot small toes phalanges after each long run, got them couple of months ago and thinking of getting rid of them ... knowing that running with less cushioned shoes in the past didn't cause injury including running a marathon. My wife got a stress fracture with hoka clifton as well! I never made the connection thinking it was "just a running injury"
Keep max cushioned shoes for easy, recovery runs. Use different shoes, with different heel drops, try running barefoot on grass, run on trails, include hills. Basically don't let your legs/feet get used to one model of running shoe and one type of surface (e.g. flat tarmac). That way you're building really strong feet/legs, essentialy minimising risk of an injury. Lastly, do it gradually, with lower drop shoes, start with short runs, rotate your shoes, do little bit of walking barefoot on grass before doing some runs. Your running form will improve as a result. Stay healthy and don't fall into a marketing trap of this trend to do all your runs in max cushion shoe...
I ran with minimalist shoes for the last 8 years. A friend introduced me to Hoka shoes. They look enormous and highly cushioned. But I tried anyway. What a mistake! I have never had plantar fasciitis all my running life, but since trying Hoka shoes just for a week, I suffered the pain. Never leave my minimalist shoes again.
rolled and sprained my ankle with these hoka shoes. still have pain two years later.
Last two pair of shoes were hoka Clifton 4 and 6. Just got the triumph 17s and noticed my heel started hurting. I was wondering if the rocker plate thing weakened some muscles? Need to watch out of PF
A. G-E interesting. Also you need to roll out those feet!
@@TheRunExperience what do you mean by roll out your feet? Thanks
Ran 13 km today, heel felt fine
Hello, so I have been in a stability shoe for the past 6 months (ASICS 2000 8) and recently bought a neutral shoe (Saucony Kinvara 11) at the advice of the sales rep after a gate analysis. But now in the Kinvara my gate feels weird, like my right foot is rolling out to the side when I walk or run. I don’t over pronate, but my right hip is a little weak which I think causes my right foot to turn out a little. I’ve been working on strengthening this. Anyway, should I keep with the neutral shoe and hope my gate starts to feel more balanced, or should I go back to my stability shoes? Thanks!
Coach Nate! I think you would be really good at a review of the new kidney shaped treadmills vs the power treadmills... But only if you want to!
Great video, thanks Coach Nate!
Thank you for yet another very insightful video! I am a runner pushing 50, and about 20 lbs over my ideal running weight (6'3" 192 lbs). I have been an on again of again runner for about the last 5 years. Seems like I'd get injured, or lazy, or a combination of the two. Last June I started seriously focusing on running again and intentionally started back slow to avoid injury. Was doing well until I started going from 3-4 days a week to 4-5 days with some moderately increased mileage. Due to previous injuries, I have been running in higher cushioned shoes. Mid December, I got a very bad case of plantar fascia, and have not been able to do anything more than walk yet. Have I been approaching this wrong with thinking I need more cushion to help prevent the PF issues? I have extremely high arches according to my podiatrist. If I am understanding your videos, it sounds like higher cushioned shoes might be hindering me more than helping. Thoughts?
I have extremely high arches too, and suspect the super cushy Speedgoat 4 of stretching out the tendon under my longer left foot, causing plantar fasciitis. Now I'm wearing firmer cushioning and am not experiencing any plantar fasciitis.
Question; The force on the impact pad may be greater with a soft shoe (I am not sure how this can be true, but let's say it is.) What is really important is not the force on the pad but the force being transferred up the body on impact. If the actual force on the body is less then what is the issue? The force on the body is inversely proportional to the time for the foot to come to rest after impact. By adding cushioning you increase this time interval and thereby decrease the amount of force being transferred to the body. So what am I getting wrong?
Agree 100% with this vid. I bought a pair of Hokas on a flyer (under $80) and they're like running in bags of dough. Harder on my legs, longer contact with the ground, unstable ride, esp on anything other than tarmac. I just made them into walkaround shoes.
Without a standardized weight vs distance of compression, stack height and cushioning numbers dont mean that much. So a good shoe for 65kg may be very different for a 80kg runner. Shoes were once described to me as : soft/thick sole requires a stiff foot for stability & control and thin/firm sole needs a soft & flexible foot for stability & control.
I have tried super cushioned shoes. I tried the triumph and they felt weird I could hardly feel the ground. I do want some cushion, but I want some sensation in the ground when running this is why I like daily trainers like the brooks adernaline or the saucony ride 16. I can still feel the ground, but I have enough cushion to protect my feet from the concrete.
I have a problem with metatarsal stress fractures and wear a high cushioned early rocker shoe (NB More v4) to reduce the impact.
Cool, that's my trail combo, Superiors and Timps for shorter and longer efforts! Then I've got an equivalent for road, Escalante Racers and Zephyrs (Topo). Felt I needed a bit of heel/toe offset to try and give my calves a break on the longer road runs :)
Im a heavy runner at 215. Cushioned helps me, yet i cant run in high stack height. NB balance rebel v3 are cushioned yet lower stack height and 6mm drop works for me
What shoes are recommended for new runners? Especially for runners on trails? Thanks!
I use Altra Torin for runs less than an hour and use Hoka Clifftons for runs longer than an hour. I think they both serve a purpose and switching them up is helpful. I did 2 Ironman marathons: one in Torins and one in Cliftons. I actually had more pain in the Cliftons than the Torins. I suspect that when my form got bad I was able to slug through it because the Hokas were so comfortable that I was able to get away with the bad form during the run. But I paid in pain the next day. Not so much in the Torin shoe.
I have an implant in my forefoot, i love running but i have to run with pain ... cushioned shoes help me so much. But I definitely get your point.
It's all about mixing it up. I use max cushion shoes for my 35 kms easy run just because i want something comfy and cushy. I use my reebok floatride fast for my uptempo 10 kms runs. And i run tails as well. I've done a 35 kms in my thin speedy shoes once and believe me it wasn't fun and my feet and joints didn't enjoy it ! To each run its shoe.
Tails ?? I mean trails of course
I have watched a ton of your videos and have become a better runner because of them. I had to go to Hoka's or I wouldn't be able to run at all. Of course I was walking with the aid of a walker 3 years ago because of Myasthenia Gravis until I learned better eating and drinking practices. My feet were not used like this for many years. I started out trying different shoes but my feet hurt and I almost give up trying to run, then my son bought the Hoka Arahi's which eliminated his knee pain. I bought a pair and have been running since.
I suspect my Hoka Speedgoat 4's of causing my recent plantar fasciitis, by letting my arch stretch out too much. I'm using much firmer cushioning now, in the New Balance 1165 and the New Balance 1350. I have been walking, by the way, not running.
At 2:51, misspelled 'develop'
Hi thx for your video. It’s about my current search for answers. I’ve been struggling with a Morten’s Neuroma injury. I walk/run about km30-50 per day. The only shoe that has worked for me this year is my Altra Paradigm 6 but I’m now wondering if a softer foam and more stack height is better to absorb the impacted like the 30-33mm stack height Ego Max from the P6 or Via Olympus or is the Ego foam and 25mm stack height from the Lone Peak, Rivera or Escalante better combined with my custom made orthopedic inner soles. I am scheduled for that operation but my foot is getting better and I just feel like I prefer to manage my foot pain over gotten a operation which only has a 50/50 success rate. I don’t want to end up with more pain if my op is not a success. I mean if I can walk/run now km30 per day it’s not to bad and I’m sure the right shoes would further aid my recovery and or make it more manageable. Thx for your opinion and reply. And have a blessed Xmas
Can’t go running on any kind of shoe without learning proper form or biomechanics. However I do acknowledge that there is some effect on the gait cycle when a certain type of shoe is on. Shoe companies should I think put warnings labels on their shoe boxes to learn proper running form/ techniques when using their product.
what are those sleek black shoes you are using? Where can I find them!
I’d be worried that max cushion shoes would increase ground contact time, which correlates with increased forces being transferred to your legs.
So what is the best shoes for long working and standing hours 😢 “ for nursing “
I dont know what the hell the shoe industry has been doing the last 40 years.
Young children wear shoes with 5mm drop or even more in some shoes and with cushioned shoes. This will affect people how they walk and run.
Things need to change in my mind in the whole shoe industri for a more natural walking and running with a more flat shoe with no drop!
I've just started using ghost max and my heels hurt more
Great video! Not sure am I ready but next summer I would like to try barefeet runs on the track, I've been fan of Hoka Clifton5 but realised something when I was having my last longish 22km on ice and wearing Asics with those nails and with minimal cushion.
Guys, run on your toes. Not only does it prevent injury, but with max cushioning you get so much bounce and increase in stride. It's not the shoes. It's your form.
That's for sprinting. Long distance on toes? No way.
I heard that barefoot running/walking is the best because of our ancestors ran/walk that way
Asmodeus Black it encourages good form. Heel striking when barefoot running goes away naturally very quick.
But our ancestors also weren’t running on asphalt and concrete.
Asphalt and concrete are not a problem to a barefoot runner, you adapt. It’s rocks and large gravel that’s a challenge
@@cowokuk Try HOKA Bondi and you will never want to run barefoot again.
When I used normal shoes I couldn't run at all without knee pain. Minimalist shoes have enabled me to run, and I'm not shifting to cushioned ones.
Cushioned ones are the best. Minimalists are for people stuck in 2010.
But the weightlifting belt doesn’t deload the core. The cushioned shoes do deload the foot and calf.
Would like to see some more research and more scientific articles that strengthens your argument. Without that, it’s is just a personal opinion or theory. 🙂
I’ve been searching for science that indicates a decrease of muscle strength and activity from using soft orthosis- but there was none that could show a significant result 😊
This feels like a similar subject.
Sadly, science is often slow to pick up on issues. Funding etc., so we just have to wait. I've only seen anecdotal evidence and mixed opinions. In my case, I bought some reasonably cushioned shoes and found they caused knee pain. I could feel an increase in workload in the forefoot. Felt like I had the breaks on. Even walking was painful. Put my firmer shoes back on (Pegagus 40) and the pain went away immediately. Over the following days, I noticed a dull ache in my patellar tendon. Can't find an explanation for it. My theory is that the extra cushioning is eliminating the heal drop (both shoes 10mm). Feels as if there's no drop at moment of foot strike (in the cushioned shoe), then a kind of climbing up over the forefoot.
I know that there is scientific research about this, i've done research myself (i work as an orthopedic technician) and the results is that its not possible to prove any increased risk of injury.
Personally I use the Hoka Chlifton and have for 2 years in marathon training and it works well for me. I am a midfoot striker and i prefer a low drop and a rocker sole (
which often helps to deload the forefoot).
So my conclusion is that it's not the cushion thats the problem, but not all shoes works for all people. There are significantly more parameters that come into play in choosing the right shoe.
And I don't think its right to state something in a video that has so many views without facts :) @@toby9999
As a non-competitive runner, I mostly run for fun and fitness. For this, minimalist shoes are definitely my choice. I always run in Vibram Five Fingers, my favorite model being the KSO Evo. Short sprints are great in these.
Love both my high stack Hoka Bondi 6 as well as my ultra slim driving/walking Puma Drift Cat.
Thx i started doing that slowly after coming off hoka bondi to hoka clifton and adidas boston 8 my go to, feel so much better the only thing is i feel better in higher stack high shoes
what is your opinion on stack hights Nate?
All the Best!
Do you think max cushioned shoes put more load on the tibia? I've noticed the last few runs in max cushioned shoes on a soft surface made my whole tibia ache.
Definitely in my case. Some, I have found are super unstable because of the stack height. I have had 2 tibial stress fractures in 12 months and my strong sense is the Zoomfly I was using put too much lateral load on the tibia. I am going back to the type of shoes I wore before.
Its been well documented and proven that max cushion shoes do not alter gait. Its also been proven that they dont protect joints as they encourage greater force in your step whoch is worse for joints. They do however help with leg muscle fatigue.
I switched back to normal shoes under 30mm and five finger rotation.
Hoka's are aweful! After a couple years of wearing them, I started having constant pain in both feet. Once I stopped wearing them and switched to a less cushioned shoe pain went away.
question after my run ill put a barefoot style shoe on for another-1-2 miles. should i be doing full runs in barefoot shoes. also should i look for something in between 5 fingers and hoka for my runs. maybe 16-18 mm stack height