@@EmperorPenguin1217basically he basically plays on a completely different level compared to other characters in terms of stage control. His blocks, TNT, and minecart give him as much stage control as a Rivals of Aether character in a game where everyone else is fairly stiff and stilted compared to him.
@@cavaliersarecute6899 sonic doesn’t alter the stage layout on a whim, he just runs away most of the game and slowly breaks you down with chip damage. Nearly any character can do that if they try hard enough. The best thing for stage control he can do is his spring and you don’t see any sonic mains really use the spring as a stage control element similar to Steves blocks.
These clips included to illustrate Steve's moveset do a fantastic job illustrating your points. It actually makes your claims like "Steve has multiple strong ledgetrap options" look like an understatement. This was really well made.
He has like the best attributes of all the main archetypes; hits like a heavy, disjoint like a swordie, frame data like a brawler, and tools like a trapper. He's broken and there is no denying it.
Joker- SS tier, pyra mythra most braindead SS tier in the game that shouldn't exist, Sora- very very very very good, hero meh, banjo meh, terry is A tier, byleth is A tier, kazuya SS tier (requires skill if you don't spam wind god fist), Steve - broken (but stupid amount of diversity of skill expression, to play Steve is just like playing Tekken, thousands of inputs and possibilities)
I wouldn’t care about the blocks at all if minecart wasn’t THE best burst option in the entire game. This thing shouldn’t be allowed to do all the things it does. WHY is it a command grab, projectile, recovery tool, combo starter, projectile blocker, get out of corner free card, on top of being a strong burst option that KILLS. It is INSANE.
It's not the strongest burst option, that's spin dash. But his archetype DID NOT NEEDED a burst option to begin with. How did this got through playtesting. Was it because we morons asked for faithful designs ignoring the concept of weaknesses? Wouldn't be surprised if that was the case.
It's actually hilarious to look back and realize that in fighter pass 2, fucking SEPHIROTH (a high A tier character) of all people is the least noteworthy character in terms of competitive viability
Steve is literally broken on top of being the best and I'm grateful that enough top players have the integrity and forethought to play characters that adhere the rules of Smash. Steve is "Stage Hazard: the character" and the worst example of JankPass2 failing to go through proper quality control, Ultimate was the best balanced Smash title up to this point. Major props to any TO and locals that are taking the initiative to make the game more enjoyable for themselves.
10:29 Adding to this, it's not just the way Steve stands: his shield is actually glitched. If anything hits Steve's shield, then as long as he holds shield afterward, the shield instantly gets locked into neutral position regardless of how he was angling it. Until he drops shield, he straight up cannot angle it anymore. This means multihit attacks aimed towards the edge of his shield will always poke if they do enough shield damage. Probably the only time this could actually be good for Steve is if the shield was angled in the wrong direction against a multihit not too far off center. Out of the many glitches Steve has, here is one that's actually bad for him.
Imo, everyone hates him (including me) because his risk-reward is not real. His moves give too much reward for how little risk there is using them. His camping is absolutely absurd. Some characters just don't have an answer to block walls. Sometimes it feels like you're fighting an uphill battle the entire match against Steve. If you don't approach him, he's winning. But if you approach him, that's playing his game. So he's winning. Like I said, the risk-reward is NOT real.
I have a friend who would lose 9 out of 10 games against me with any character. When he plays Steve (or Kazuya, but him to a lesser degree) it suddenly becomes a 50/50 match Like, it's not even funny. He does the same thing with the same gameplan as with other characters, but suddenly i cannot punish sh!t and lose a stock after 3 or 4 interactions cause i am suddenly at 120% It's so ridiculous
Steve reminds me a lot of Smash 4 Cloud now that ai thibk on it. You don't want them to get their resource (Limit/Diamond) because they can keep it for the rest if the stock and makes them drastocally scarier, but approaching to deny them that resource means dealing with their other yoked tools that put you on the losing side of the risk/reward interaction.
@@neog8029Definitely a fair comparison, and I’d say Steve is also pretty reminiscent of Smash 4 Bayo. On paper, he should be pretty slow and easy to beat in neutral, but a combination of ridiculously good recovery, strong burst, devastating punish game, and unique defensive tools (Blocks/Witch Time) means that the risk-reward ratio for approaching him is extreme, and his “weakness” is shored up by immense strengths. The punishment for failing to win an interaction against him is too high, but the reward for getting in is also too low.
@@ngotemna8875 well, i play a lot of steves, a lot of pretty good steves who win locals in their areas, and they usually dont win against me in the steve ditto, cause I know exactly how to escape steves combos/ parry all his moves and get punishes. I will never get 0td by another steve because I know exactly what to do to make them drop the combo. Why is it so hard for people to just accept he has counterplay instead of whining and saying he doesnt? certain characters shit on steve like pythra, cloud, sephiroth, mii brawler, sonic, etc. hes a good character (not top 1), that has very clear counterplay, but the issue is everyone thinking hes so op that they should refuse to learn anything and just complain online lmao. once all the top players learn how to beat steve, we wont rlly see steves winning majors anymore.
@@dc_dachi are you really comparing blocks to witch time? thats a damn joke. all of bayos combos are brainless to learn, all her 0tds that work on every single character universally was so easy to learn, that almost every top player had a pocket bayo. steve is not sm4sh bayo, or even comparable to her, and anyone who says so genuinely just did not play sm4sh.
What sucks is Steve came out at a time when Nintendo/Bandai/Sakurai was close to sunsetting all updates to the game. So by the time players experienced how broken he is, there was not much in the way to get them to balance/nerf him. Least of all, fix his meta-breaking glitches. So the game is forever stuck with this COVID-powered mistake.
@fuyutsuki3041 yeah but he's the funniest character to be the meta killer. He's fucking minecraft. Imagine if the best character was some soulless anime girl with a sword there's no humor in that
The worst thing about Steve is that there's no consistent "answer" to him. With how Steve's kit works, he can basically respond and easily adjust to whatever counter-measures you come up with. It's like you finally found a strategy to use in the MU, but because Steve is now using his blocks in a very slightly different, your strategy against him doesn't work anymore. His kit just gives him way too much versatility, leading to a character with effectively no weaknesses for you to exploit
Yep, he's techanically not unbeatable. But he's also very capable of chucking out 50+ MU checks tuned in his favor, all while naturally being a very strong character.
No weakness? Lmao the hypocritial hype for Steve just to keep it as the strongest character is funny. Steve has some key weaknesses that while they are no gane changer, it can still help anyone to bet him. 1. Rush him down and don't let him farm as much. He will struggle. 2. Outrange him. I He has no range and some characters that do can keep him away while dealing consistent damage. 3. Play patiently and attack with all the moment he fails to do any combo or set up. ( mutace is a perfect example of someone who let the best steve to farm all he eanted and punished him accordingly). 4. Steve isn't Kazuya. You can go in, try combos and options with him. Steve is not gonna invalidate 95% of your options like Kazuya does by existing.
To put it in 1 sentence. Steve is the only character with tools that true hard counter not just a few mechanics but many including the game itself. Mining just doesn't require enough commitment to the point it is safe to do as a well timed shield will let you punish the enemy. You must punish Steve from a state where you are at disadvantage.
Honestly, I only have 2 issues with Steve since I play super casually: The fact blocks can be built in the air and the pop-up when you escape the mine cart. Unlike buries where you can attack or air dodge after coming out, when escaping the mine cart, you pop up a set height and are unable to act for nearly a full second.
I understand Nintendo not wanting to get a team back together to nerf Steve’s whole kit meticulously at this point in time, but they could literally just double the material cost of all his special moves and cut in half the HP of all his tools as a “band-aid fix” and it would probably be enough to balance him without much effort. He’d still be annoying and overtuned, but at least he would be more restrained.
You nailed the matchup weakness of his mobility. A Min Min that doesn't approach and loves to retreating attack is deadly because of how much more relevant movement is than frame data against her.
@@legrandliseurtri7495 dtilt can be done on a block and get you out of lag early (and be + sometimes), but yeah ig for usmash. That being said, ONE not screwed risk reward ratio is also pretty eeeeugh
This character not being banned for this long entirely justifies all of the years of the smash community being bullied by every other competitive community out there, most of them woudln't even think twice when seeing this atrocity
@@ngotemna8875 I'll never understand two arguments people make when they claim Steve shouldn't be banned. A) anybody who claims people are simply salty they lose and just need to git gud. I mean, this half assed "argument" goes without saying for why it's stupid LMAO B) that Steve mains put hundreds of hours into the character so it's "unfair" to ban him. But ... what about the hundreds of hours that non Steve mains put into their own characters long before Steve debut?
I've only seen arguments from people saying that the Smash community are babies for wanting to ban Steve from the game, mostly from people claiming to be apart of the FGC circles. Maybe it's FGC elitism or maybe these are bad faith comments from Steve fans, but I've personally haven't seen what you're describing.
@@l.n.3372I mean Steve has probably the most massive combo diversity in the game so B does have more ground then you give credit, but he still does need heavy amount of nerfs.
@@arbalest327 Argument B doesn't deserve more credit tho. Steve came out in what, October 2020 if I remember correctly. The game was already around for nearly two years by then. If someone started playing Ultimate in December 2018, and if they stuck with their main since then, they'll always have more hours in the game than a Steve main who didn't start grinding Steve till two years later. The hours players dedicated to their mains will always vary by character and release date. But it's silly to claim Steve mains should be respected more for their hours as opposed to every other player and every other main. They put hours into the game too, and Steve invalidated many of their hours by existing as such a broken character.
@@JColeGlazer754 In last stock situations, when the opponent is at kill percent, yes, it is optimal. Acola will casually throw out two to three forward smashes in a row sometimes. If he gets hit, he can often just tech his own wall, and if he's in a situation where he can't do that, he made sure beforehand that he's not at kill percent himself. If the other guy gets hit, he just dies.
My biggest issue with Steve is he is not fun to fight at all. It makes me feel like I'm not even playing Smash half the time, and having to play by Steve's rules just makes it much less fun from a competitor and spectator point of view.
The crazy creative bullshit I can accept. It's the point of minecraft, and i can accept him being like that. What I cannot accept is the really good moveset he has, like an unreacrable burst move that turns into a command grab projectile, a front smash that kills at 20%, brawl metaknights upair, absurd combos and so on. If his point is to be creative and use clever tactics to outplay his opponents, why does he have one of the best moves in the entire fucking game?
The blocks seriously shouldnt be so hard to destroy considering how much they give him. Even a novice Steve can get resources quickly with that stupid wall of blocks
Time to bring back this golden quote. (Banning wobbling is my favorite analogy, because it was a single instance of something breaking the risk reward structure too much. Steve is running up against accusations of being a whole character of near wobbling, putting its hands in the face of these accusations, and going "im not touching you im not touching you".)
If Steve did return in a future smash game, he'll be getting the Smash Ult Bayo treatment and heavily nerf him to kingdom come. Although, as someone who play tons of Minecraft and even modded Minecraft, it would make more sense to tweak a majority of his toolkit to accommodate a better representation of his series. Like, instead of infinite mining in a "predetermined order", there should be a limit on how much you mine AND you can't mine anymore if your hotbar is at its limit. Also, it should be easier to have a random percent chance on certain items mined; like gold can be 5% mined and diamond should be a very small 0.01% get. Elytra is fine as it is but should have chip damage depending how much you hit something in acceleration. TNT detention should be minimized for partial shield damage and medium if not shielded. Minecart is hardly used in the game so a better kit is suited. The wooden, stone, iron, gold, and diamond tools are fine as it is but there should be enchantments on said tools. Wooden should be kept as is but very weak and duration last only a few hits. Stone is just a bit stronger but has wood's duration by +2 or +3 extra hits. Iron duration is a bit longer and hits better. Gold should be fast and brittle. Diamond tools should have a bit of an enchantment of that Knockback effect so you couldn't play around him if hit. Finally, blocks. I would say you can only used blocks depending how much of the material you have in the hotbar. You need 9 iron ingots for a block of iron so if you only have 8, no iron block. Anvil should be nerf to mostly a small hit percentage and not killing. Axe needs less swings. Lava bucket is only useful for chip damage. And sword swing should hit by a Knockback with medium percentage taken. If done that as a better representation, then maybe he's doable. Alas, that's not the world we lived in.
I think steve is a cool design but his numbers are tuned. Theres no reason for diamond f smash or back air to be that strong, same goes for down air and minecart. If diamond back air kills 20% later we have a fair character.
i think if people played more characters, then there would be more answers found to play against steve. What if a really underrated mid tier is suddenly really good against steve? Yoshidora prooved that with Yoshi. The meta is heavily on using characters like Aegis, Rob, Cloud, Sonic, etc.
@@legrandliseurtri7495 acola is just a better player, but yoshidora showed yoshi does well against steve. For example, Esam has a losing record against Sean. Even when Esam plays Pikachu which in theory should beat Captain falcon.
@@wailmoregd140 bruh yall steve haters are a hive mind yall just say the same thing. “If a steve player wins they are carried if they lose they are bad” jesus 💀💀💀
@@vicentecarretero4588 those are contradictory statements? If every single game I played, I played game and watch, and mashed hammer towards my opponent, I would not be good. But lets say, but a stretch of luck, I hit 3 9's in a row and win the game. Would I not be carried by the 9 hammer? I did nothing else. So bad and carried. Thats playing Steve for ya.
People have mentioned this before but it’s so goddamn funny that not only is minecraft Steve in smash, but he’s unfathomably broken and the best character by a wide margin
I think its fine to ban a character that people have put hundreds of hours into playing if it invalidates basically the whole cast. Blocks are absurd and ruin the game.
If the only counter to a character is to play that character, you have a 1 character platform fighter. Nintendo was obviously trying to kill the game with Steve and Kazuya.
@@crazykhespar8487he still does not invalidate the entire cast. Also the only solution to beating Steve is not playing Steve, you can win against him with a multitude of other characters
I agree. Normalize banning for a healthier competitive environment. Smashers are so scared to ban and have already let it ruin 2 iterations before this. Did we learn our lesson? Of fucking course not.
I hate playing against Steve with passion but I ain't gonna lie him being the best character in the game by far and having every comp player seething at the sight of him when he's so fucking goofy also causes me extreme amusement
Whaddya mean contrarian? I said I hate Steve too But I also find it funny that people have mental breakdowns because of losing to him, of all 80 characters in the game Minecraft Steve just had to be the broken one, it's comedy I dont care if he gets banned I'm chilling either way, but that doesn't mean I'm defending him, he's insane
@@CarbonMalite when that was discovered it should have been enough of an excuse to blanket ban him, but too many piss babies were crying about "well what if we just ban the glitch" even though you couldn't always tell that they used it intentionally and it was easy enough to do on the sly, plus they were crying about "well what if nobody really implements it" like we didn't go through two other games where people DID implement the broken stuff on their characters and ruined the meta. modern smash is just an exercise in proving melee players right, that their game is better.
@@drewbabe Right? I thought "FINALLY! This is a clear cut case of cheating. And unlike wobbling it's not obvious at all. And sometimes can happen accidentally. Surely the character gets a blanket ban" Nooooooooooope
Steve is just too powerful, he is practically in creative mode if you know what your doing with him even a little. The fabric of smash is broken by his existance, dude is a menace to society. No platform, make one. The blocks are just too good, although he wouldnt be nearly as broken if you couldn't use any of the discovered tech in tourney and could only do intended stuff...
Steve is a shining example that characters are not created equal or even close. Doesn't make sense to make a game where characters are SO much better than others. Also with Nintendo money why the fuck couldn't we get better online play. It's a fucking money grab.
I like to make the comparison, not just for Steve, but also for Sm4sh Bayo and Brawl Meta Knight, between them and Melee Fox, who is almost as broken as those 3 are and is more dominant than even Brawl MK. Despite that, Fox is considered far from banworthy. The difference, as I perceive it, is that Fox is a really fun character that elevates his game and improves the morale of the playerbase. The other 3, however, are absolutely horrible to fight and actively ruined the game for a lot of players. Really broken characters tend to be fine as long as they’re fun to fight, and unfun characters to fight are usually fine too when they aren’t overwhelmingly powerful. But the 3 banes of their respective games are both super broken and unfun to fight. (This is also a personal thing, but Steve, when optimized to a humanly realistic extent, is more broken than both Brawl MK and Sm4sh Bayo imo. He’s not there yet though so only time will tell how that holds up).
Fox has worse matchups in a smaller character pool than Steve which is why I also don't think Fox is anywhere close to as annoying as Steve. Fox is the melee character I find the least interesting and I would watch a Fox mirror between non top players far before I watched Acola play another top player.
I want to remind you all of just the sheer amount of “prodigies” that cropped up after steve’s release. There was never a greater density of 15 year old kids beating top level players, all using steve.
It's pretty simple to beat top level players when they haven't adapted to the game changing, not many players are beating top levels with Steve anymore.
Steve: this guy is immortal, can create matter and destroy it, can move at the speed of light, can punch something to oblivion, and now is unbeatable in smash
I don't think I would mind Steve as much if he looked cool or if what he was doing was cool. That's something Brawl's Meta Knight has as a redeeming quality. As much as I hated fighting him back then, at least he looked cool doing what he did and actually has a personality.
As a yugioh player, I can confidently say that just because something has counter play, that doesn't mean that it shouldn't be banned. Just because Steve has counter play doesn't mean that he shouldn't be banned. He's an undeniable problem, and I honestly feel like he's killing this game. I'm not saying that ultimate is dead, but I am saying that Steve is certainly killing the game. You can't help but groan when you hear about how he's in the finals for the hundredth time in a row, and you know that the match won't even be worth watching because it's going to be a slog the entire time. You'd probably have more fun watching grass grow.
Everyone who played a Card game can assure this. What's more, EVEN IF HE WASN'T THE BEST he would still be banworthy just because his gameplay is so degenerate, but being the best character in Smash just makes things so much worse. He just should NOT exist in Ultimate, nor Kazuya or Min-Min.
At this point wether he deserved to be in the game or not is a pointless discussion. Character won’t be banned because the Smash community is deathly afraid of bans. If we get Ultimate deluxe though? He NEEDS to get gutted and pay for the warcrimes.
@@emberpowertcg7692 Well, even if / when a true sequel comes along, characters that are essentially on loan, dont make the base roster. Steve is not owned by Nintendo so, they would need to do everything they did the first time to make that happen. Aside from that, I cannot even imagine how the community would react if he was added back into a true sequel.
I do wish there was more tournament variety. More circuits with different rulesets. Ban steve makes a lot of sense in hindsight, and I've changed my opinion on it with Steve and Kaz, but I do think there is a lot of merit in banning Fighters Pass 2 outright. Arguably the worst issues with the game come from that swatch of characters, and banning them individually one at a time would make the issues more apparent as the meta shifts.
I’ve been saying this!! I’m a casual player but I’m glad to see someone who thinks the same. Even fighters pass 1 has some ridiculous characters like hero and byleth that just aren’t fun to play against because it seems like they’re too good in too many areas. Most characters before DLC feel balanced and not too overpowered
Yeah. Meta Knight was busted, but watching two good meta knights fight was something special. 30 seconds of stock can happen entirely off, or under the stage. Watching two Steves fight is just stupid.
I gotta be honest I love watching Steve, he’s weird but I think the kit is fun. I feel the real problem is that it’s not fun to play against. Truly the biggest issue is that there’s been no proper balancing after release. His kit is very fun, blocks just need to have less durability, and other similar adjustments
Steve in Smash is like if a kid designed him; "I know you hit me but I already made a 3-layer wall and full diamond tools and then I can get in the mine cart and go really fast and then I can place blocks in the air (which you can't do in the game only I can do that) and then the blocks I place in the air give me more jumps like I was standing on the ground and then I use a lava bucket to burn you and then I win."
@@charliekelly735It was the opposite for me. Played Steve and Mii Gunner (Sans Costume) when I first started playing Smash, and now I main four different characters: Mewtwo, Meta Knight, Ike, and Sephiroth. I do pull out the occasional Dedede, but I don't actively main or try to improve with him... might pick up Corrin though.
As much as I love Steve, he should be banned, or at least have tournaments without Steve and some with steve. He’s so fun to watch but I can’t lie he’s not healthy for the game.
same i have such a huge soft spot for steve, and it's a shame he's as overtuned as he is now. he's a visual treat to spectate and the animators/devs really went all in to bring this character to life. he's not healthy for the comp scene, but he's certainly attracted players to smash. my nephew didn't care too much about smash but bought ultimate for steve lol
I wanted Steve in smash for so long but when he got added I still didn’t have a switch, by the time I got one everyone hated Steve so I never played him cause everyone kicked me in arena. I play all low tiers and Steve is my secondary
Okay but like nobody hates Steve as a character they just hate him as an opponent, every can agree that the detail and care in the references and creativity of his moveset are astounding. I mean I agree he is broken but like that doesn’t mean everyone hates the entire character. But maybe I’m missing the point of the video, I don’t know.
The creativity is born from him being absolutely busted and part of why I hate him. If every button a character presses is great and has multiple use cases then of course the skill ceiling will be sky high. It changes it from learning how to play Smash as good as you can to learning how to play specifically Steve as good as you can. It's why I don't feel bad for the Steve mains if he gets banned. Ultimate has nearly 100 characters, if someone can only be a top competitor with 1 of them then maybe they shouldn't be a top competitor. And I don't play so trust me when I say I don't have any hate for him as an opponent.
@@lasagnahog7695 I’m sorry, are you saying that the reason his moveset is creative (ie using an anvil or piston as an attack) make him hard to fight against? If he just punched for all of his moves and they all did the same thing, since it’s less creative, is it then that he’s not ‘absolutely busted’? The creativity in his moveset ideas isn’t from being a busted character, but from the designers being creative when coming up with ideas.
Smash players are understandably not keen on banning characters like they do with stages but maybe the line should be drawn at the character who can build things onto the stage itself.
I feel vindicated here because I said for years that Steve just doesn't work in smash. Yeh, he's in the game, but it feels like shoving a square peg in a ring hole. The only way he "worked" was to make his kit broken and annoying to play. Banjo-kazooie was better in every way.
Probably the least fun best character in any smash game. Bayonetta has an argument though. Smash ultimates meta died when Steve came out, we all miss the days where PT, Wolf and Wario were at the top of the meta game
@@PaperGraysterYT True but when Bayonetta lost people got insanely hype. When Steve loses people are still in agony. Bayo is also much more interactive than steve.
@@maddox9511 yeah but they got hyped when bayo lost because of how many bayo mains there were and less characters stood a chance against her than steve
At least S4 bayo was hot and is an actual character with personality and expressions. Steve is a legoman that builds stage hazards and blatantly cheats.
I probably did not. The part I do not like about him is that his flight is hard to control, and the only reason I like him is the enderman skin. I expected the final smash to be the wither summoning, but reality gets dissapointing and the REAL one was the creepers in a castle being blown up.
Literally the starter pack of ultimate,everything you want from a broken character given more broken options and your gaslit into thinking "he's slow though",at least he loses to some characters.
I think Steve would be a lot better if he was more like Hero or Shulk. Hero ane Shulk don't have access to all of their tools all of the time like Steve does. You have to scroll a menu. Steve would still play pretty much the same but you wouldn't be able to spam your whole kit at the opponent at all times.
@@legrandliseurtri7495More like actually making his negative aspects have actual downsides. Using Shulk as an example, when he's in speed mode he moves and jumps faster which opens combos, but his frame data is still effectively the same, meaning that his new options are just from the increased mobility and not changes to his frame data or hotboxes. Plus there's the downside of decreased weight and increased knockback, meaning that he'll die to a light breeze if the opponent can break out of a combo or can pull a reversal on him. Compare that to Steve who's downsides are similar to Pyra/Mythra dialed up to 11; his tools are either well balanced in terms of speed and power, some of them are faster but weaker (which is actually 2 advantages since it significantly opens up combo chains and options), while his slower and stronger tools aren't *that* slow while also allowing kills at shockingly low percentages (on a character who has literally thousands of ways to either set up or confirm those "slow" attacks). And that's not even including all of his jank with blocks and resources, which allows him to control the stage and match tempo with such oppression that it would make Melee Fox, Brawl Meta Knight and Sm4sh Bayo jealous. Even though Steve is objectively the best character in the game and effectively invalidates half the cast, the only reason he's not banned is because of his steep learning curve and the fact that the other half of the roster he doesn't invalidate do have options (however few/difficult) to deal with him.
I wanted him in Smash and he deserves to be in. He's from Minecraft, THE best selling game of all time. Not including him in a celebration of gaming makes no sense. I just wish they bothered to actually test him properly during Covid and cared enough to watch him closely after release because he's fundamentally broken and not fun to play against or watch (most of the time). I'm so grumpy that this iconic character has all this controversy around him because Nintendo were lazy.
This character feels like a Smash 4 DLC character that was saved for this game. He’s jank as hell in a toxic way and not fun to play against in the slightest.
This is why Steve is the god of gods not only in his own universe but he instantaneously conquered Smash universe by a pivotal shot making him the god of gods and ultimately the S+ tier rank as a fighter
To me the worst thing about Steve is how insufferably boring he is to watch and how frustrating he is to play against. I skip tournament videos of Steve because I hate watching him in the game. I SD out of any game where I'm matched against a Steve because whether I win or lose I'm left bored and irritated
I can fully understand everyone else's thoughts on why Steve is an ass, but yours is too self-centered and subjective lol, like instead of "He's too OP and unfair" its "Oh Steve is boring" like lmao ok
@@theoriginalman9426 that's why I said "to me" because I was giving what was obviously my subjective opinion. Also how is "he's boring" more subjective than "he's unfair"?
@@benandrew21 Because "he's unfair" can actually be backed up with proof and facts, as stated by the video and everyone else, the "he's boring" argument is pretty much just subjective
@@theoriginalman9426 how is he unfair though? If you understand what he can and can't do then nothing should be surprising and therefore since you know he can do something it won't be unfair when he does it
I personally feel like it's not necessarily because Minecraft Steve is broken or anything, but more so because of how he was designed, the fact that he was developed during the COVID-19 pandemic (which included playtesting carried out online using the game's infamous delay-based netcode), and the fact that he can be obnoxious and toxic to fight in the hands of a sufficiently skilled player.
I remember, it was 9am in my statistics class in college, I was watching the direct. when I saw Steve I was so disappointed and sad that my professor said if I was okay, lol. He was like the only one I didn't want
I genuinely wonder if competitive Japan hates Steve as much as we do but they're way too nice and thus never complain about it, instead bottling up their anger. It cannot be pleasant for them that Acola wins 90% of Japanese tournaments, with Miya winning almost all the rest otherwise.
@@l.n.3372 I usually translate Japanese comments where I see Steve discussions held and many of the Japanese commenters express the same sentiments towards Steve that we do. They're playing the same game we are so it makes sense, but for cultural and logistical reasons the concept of banning a character isn't realistic to them.
@@VaneWalker I'm not as familiar with other fighting games as I am with Smash but I'm certain that characters must have been banned in other fighting games over time. Like Street Fighter or Tekken or Marvel vs Capcom, etc. And those characters would logically have been banned all over their respective competitive scene, not just in North America. So Japanese players of said games would likely have the same ban lists to be consistent.
There's always going to be some hate for the best character. But Steve is worse than that. He's boring and looks worse. So unlike Fox in Melee, he's just boring. He's a very unbalanced character in a mostly balanced game. More people would forgive him for that if he wasn't so boring-looking. Nothing he does is cool.
Back when Joker was number 1, he was at least fun to watch (unless he gun camped all game) because he’s an aggressive character by nature. When a character like Steve, who is incentivized to camp, is made the best, it’s no fun for anyone except maybe the Steve player.
@@K0DA._. I won't lie, I never found Joker fun to watch because it got so damn boring to me whenever MK Leo won everything with joker. I didn't like the character at all until Leo dropped joker during the online era and nobody really used joker for about 2 years. Post quarantine, I grew to appreciate how difficult joker was to use and also to appreciate those few good players who did commit to keeping joker in the post quarantine era.
@@arbalest327 I'd hesitate to call them boring. They're cheap as hell tho. Basically if you combined Sheik speed in one form with Ike's kill power in another form. As such, I don't like them either. But Sonix has proven with edge guarding Pyra and Mythra that those two can easily be killed offstage, something that isn't easy when playing against Steve.
Biggest issue is that Steve doesn’t play smash. And playing against him forces you to play his game.
What does "doesn't play Smash" mean?
@@EmperorPenguin1217basically he basically plays on a completely different level compared to other characters in terms of stage control. His blocks, TNT, and minecart give him as much stage control as a Rivals of Aether character in a game where everyone else is fairly stiff and stilted compared to him.
@@fishyfishyfishy500akabs8 sonic also plays his own game.
@@cavaliersarecute6899 sonic doesn’t alter the stage layout on a whim, he just runs away most of the game and slowly breaks you down with chip damage. Nearly any character can do that if they try hard enough.
The best thing for stage control he can do is his spring and you don’t see any sonic mains really use the spring as a stage control element similar to Steves blocks.
As someone who has played minecraft before, I see this as a win
These clips included to illustrate Steve's moveset do a fantastic job illustrating your points. It actually makes your claims like "Steve has multiple strong ledgetrap options" look like an understatement. This was really well made.
He has like the best attributes of all the main archetypes; hits like a heavy, disjoint like a swordie, frame data like a brawler, and tools like a trapper. He's broken and there is no denying it.
I could forgive all of it if he didn't have the trapping tools.
He can literal make a trap house
A lot of Swordies have way better disjoints than he does
@@JColeGlazer754 but no swordie has a bair like his
I haven’t seen anyone hit someone by bairing in the wrong direction quite like Steve does
Roy has 3 of those 4, unfortunately he has no way to trap anyone
5 S-tier DLC characters and 4 A-tier. This is pay-to-win with better balancing lol.
At least this is better than Sm4sh (copium).
@@K0DA._. Low bar
I dunno, Banjo and Sephiroth are pretty mid to be honest.
Especially Sephiroth. What a let-down man
Did you just call hero A tier? Wtf are you smoking
Joker- SS tier, pyra mythra most braindead SS tier in the game that shouldn't exist, Sora- very very very very good, hero meh, banjo meh, terry is A tier, byleth is A tier, kazuya SS tier (requires skill if you don't spam wind god fist), Steve - broken (but stupid amount of diversity of skill expression, to play Steve is just like playing Tekken, thousands of inputs and possibilities)
I wouldn’t care about the blocks at all if minecart wasn’t THE best burst option in the entire game. This thing shouldn’t be allowed to do all the things it does. WHY is it a command grab, projectile, recovery tool, combo starter, projectile blocker, get out of corner free card, on top of being a strong burst option that KILLS. It is INSANE.
That's the thing.
Every time you think you've gotten past THE strong option, he just pull out another one.
@@MrGameguyC would literally be fine playing against steve if he didn’t have minecart i swear
It's mainly just too fast in the air. Most characters can't even run that fast.
It's not the strongest burst option, that's spin dash. But his archetype DID NOT NEEDED a burst option to begin with. How did this got through playtesting. Was it because we morons asked for faithful designs ignoring the concept of weaknesses? Wouldn't be surprised if that was the case.
@@N12015just because morons exist doesnt mean this thing should grab through shields
It's actually hilarious to look back and realize that in fighter pass 2, fucking SEPHIROTH (a high A tier character) of all people is the least noteworthy character in terms of competitive viability
Steve is literally broken on top of being the best and I'm grateful that enough top players have the integrity and forethought to play characters that adhere the rules of Smash. Steve is "Stage Hazard: the character" and the worst example of JankPass2 failing to go through proper quality control, Ultimate was the best balanced Smash title up to this point. Major props to any TO and locals that are taking the initiative to make the game more enjoyable for themselves.
Smash Ultimate is fascinating in that it’s one of the few games that’s gotten progressively LESS balanced over time.
10:29 Adding to this, it's not just the way Steve stands: his shield is actually glitched. If anything hits Steve's shield, then as long as he holds shield afterward, the shield instantly gets locked into neutral position regardless of how he was angling it. Until he drops shield, he straight up cannot angle it anymore. This means multihit attacks aimed towards the edge of his shield will always poke if they do enough shield damage.
Probably the only time this could actually be good for Steve is if the shield was angled in the wrong direction against a multihit not too far off center.
Out of the many glitches Steve has, here is one that's actually bad for him.
Weird enough this same glitch existed in a different way in minecraft before lol
Imo, everyone hates him (including me) because his risk-reward is not real. His moves give too much reward for how little risk there is using them. His camping is absolutely absurd. Some characters just don't have an answer to block walls.
Sometimes it feels like you're fighting an uphill battle the entire match against Steve. If you don't approach him, he's winning. But if you approach him, that's playing his game. So he's winning. Like I said, the risk-reward is NOT real.
I have a friend who would lose 9 out of 10 games against me with any character.
When he plays Steve (or Kazuya, but him to a lesser degree) it suddenly becomes a 50/50 match
Like, it's not even funny.
He does the same thing with the same gameplan as with other characters, but suddenly i cannot punish sh!t and lose a stock after 3 or 4 interactions cause i am suddenly at 120%
It's so ridiculous
Steve reminds me a lot of Smash 4 Cloud now that ai thibk on it. You don't want them to get their resource (Limit/Diamond) because they can keep it for the rest if the stock and makes them drastocally scarier, but approaching to deny them that resource means dealing with their other yoked tools that put you on the losing side of the risk/reward interaction.
@@neog8029Definitely a fair comparison, and I’d say Steve is also pretty reminiscent of Smash 4 Bayo. On paper, he should be pretty slow and easy to beat in neutral, but a combination of ridiculously good recovery, strong burst, devastating punish game, and unique defensive tools (Blocks/Witch Time) means that the risk-reward ratio for approaching him is extreme, and his “weakness” is shored up by immense strengths.
The punishment for failing to win an interaction against him is too high, but the reward for getting in is also too low.
@@ngotemna8875 well, i play a lot of steves, a lot of pretty good steves who win locals in their areas, and they usually dont win against me in the steve ditto, cause I know exactly how to escape steves combos/ parry all his moves and get punishes. I will never get 0td by another steve because I know exactly what to do to make them drop the combo. Why is it so hard for people to just accept he has counterplay instead of whining and saying he doesnt? certain characters shit on steve like pythra, cloud, sephiroth, mii brawler, sonic, etc. hes a good character (not top 1), that has very clear counterplay, but the issue is everyone thinking hes so op that they should refuse to learn anything and just complain online lmao. once all the top players learn how to beat steve, we wont rlly see steves winning majors anymore.
@@dc_dachi are you really comparing blocks to witch time? thats a damn joke. all of bayos combos are brainless to learn, all her 0tds that work on every single character universally was so easy to learn, that almost every top player had a pocket bayo. steve is not sm4sh bayo, or even comparable to her, and anyone who says so genuinely just did not play sm4sh.
What sucks is Steve came out at a time when Nintendo/Bandai/Sakurai was close to sunsetting all updates to the game. So by the time players experienced how broken he is, there was not much in the way to get them to balance/nerf him. Least of all, fix his meta-breaking glitches.
So the game is forever stuck with this COVID-powered mistake.
Bayo: first time huh
I thought it was announced there would either be a new smash game or a update I can't remember now
@@bigbird4481 A postmortem update was announced but didn't get pushed on the date given and hasn't been mentioned since. As a TF2 player,
Don’t play smash but seeing Steve from Minecraft just molly whopping everyone is gold
ikr
He makes the game not fun and literally killed the game
@fuyutsuki3041 yeah but he's the funniest character to be the meta killer. He's fucking minecraft. Imagine if the best character was some soulless anime girl with a sword there's no humor in that
@@DannyCheezits you'd expect Steve to be joke character, instead he's a boss character 💀🤣
The worst thing about Steve is that there's no consistent "answer" to him. With how Steve's kit works, he can basically respond and easily adjust to whatever counter-measures you come up with. It's like you finally found a strategy to use in the MU, but because Steve is now using his blocks in a very slightly different, your strategy against him doesn't work anymore. His kit just gives him way too much versatility, leading to a character with effectively no weaknesses for you to exploit
Yep, he's techanically not unbeatable.
But he's also very capable of chucking out 50+ MU checks tuned in his favor, all while naturally being a very strong character.
in other words, he has "creative mode" activated.
No weakness? Lmao the hypocritial hype for Steve just to keep it as the strongest character is funny.
Steve has some key weaknesses that while they are no gane changer, it can still help anyone to bet him.
1. Rush him down and don't let him farm as much. He will struggle.
2. Outrange him. I
He has no range and some characters that do can keep him away while dealing consistent damage.
3. Play patiently and attack with all the moment he fails to do any combo or set up. ( mutace is a perfect example of someone who let the best steve to farm all he eanted and punished him accordingly).
4. Steve isn't Kazuya. You can go in, try combos and options with him. Steve is not gonna invalidate 95% of your options like Kazuya does by existing.
@@Yokai_Yuri 1. he has insane attack frame data and good grab
2. he has mine cart
3.ok so just be better than him thanks
4. Yes he can
He has weaknesses but he can make it up for them because he hits like a truck.
To put it in 1 sentence.
Steve is the only character with tools that true hard counter not just a few mechanics but many including the game itself.
Mining just doesn't require enough commitment to the point it is safe to do as a well timed shield will let you punish the enemy. You must punish Steve from a state where you are at disadvantage.
Knew Steve was broken the moment my anvil saved me from a ending game spike (I bounced off of it) and helped me win the game
Honestly, I only have 2 issues with Steve since I play super casually: The fact blocks can be built in the air and the pop-up when you escape the mine cart. Unlike buries where you can attack or air dodge after coming out, when escaping the mine cart, you pop up a set height and are unable to act for nearly a full second.
Womp womp seems like skill issue
you can't even place blocks in the air in Minecraft so why was that a decision??
@@shiro4095 this website is 13+
I understand Nintendo not wanting to get a team back together to nerf Steve’s whole kit meticulously at this point in time, but they could literally just double the material cost of all his special moves and cut in half the HP of all his tools as a “band-aid fix” and it would probably be enough to balance him without much effort.
He’d still be annoying and overtuned, but at least he would be more restrained.
Make him lose diamond/gold when he loses a stock while you're at it.
@@alexsartor63 Make him lose ALL materials and have every stock be like the first one.
@@ngotemna8875
I'll never understand how this wasn't his base kit. It seems so obvious but he's broken DLC so nope.
@@l.n.3372comeback mechanics are literally in almost all DLC characters
@@biggiecheese2004
Why are you replying to me LMAO
I said nothing about come back mechanic
You nailed the matchup weakness of his mobility. A Min Min that doesn't approach and loves to retreating attack is deadly because of how much more relevant movement is than frame data against her.
the intro makes me realize how much I miss those Smash Reveal Trailers from the Directs
Every move he has is low risk high reward, all of them.
Upsmash and downtilt are medium risk high reward.
@@legrandliseurtri7495a lot of chars can fall right through upsmash using multi hits, that move is one of the most overrated moves in the game
@@legrandliseurtri7495 dtilt can be done on a block and get you out of lag early (and be + sometimes), but yeah ig for usmash. That being said, ONE not screwed risk reward ratio is also pretty eeeeugh
@@JColeGlazer754I'd say the main flaw of upsmash is that it has so much end lag.
Dash Attack is the only tame move in his kit... and it's still good with the better materials.
Steves not only op in Minecraft being able to carry more than 200,000,000,000, tons, he’s also op here.
This character not being banned for this long entirely justifies all of the years of the smash community being bullied by every other competitive community out there, most of them woudln't even think twice when seeing this atrocity
Yep, the fact that there's even a discussion is so strange to me.
@@ngotemna8875
I'll never understand two arguments people make when they claim Steve shouldn't be banned.
A) anybody who claims people are simply salty they lose and just need to git gud. I mean, this half assed "argument" goes without saying for why it's stupid LMAO
B) that Steve mains put hundreds of hours into the character so it's "unfair" to ban him. But ... what about the hundreds of hours that non Steve mains put into their own characters long before Steve debut?
I've only seen arguments from people saying that the Smash community are babies for wanting to ban Steve from the game, mostly from people claiming to be apart of the FGC circles. Maybe it's FGC elitism or maybe these are bad faith comments from Steve fans, but I've personally haven't seen what you're describing.
@@l.n.3372I mean Steve has probably the most massive combo diversity in the game so B does have more ground then you give credit, but he still does need heavy amount of nerfs.
@@arbalest327
Argument B doesn't deserve more credit tho. Steve came out in what, October 2020 if I remember correctly. The game was already around for nearly two years by then. If someone started playing Ultimate in December 2018, and if they stuck with their main since then, they'll always have more hours in the game than a Steve main who didn't start grinding Steve till two years later. The hours players dedicated to their mains will always vary by character and release date. But it's silly to claim Steve mains should be respected more for their hours as opposed to every other player and every other main. They put hours into the game too, and Steve invalidated many of their hours by existing as such a broken character.
I'm unemployed.
Same
Same.
Im employed under the cost of my mental wellbeing
Don’t care didn’t ask
I am also unemployed 🦞
This character has the most insane risk/reward ratio in the game, it's so stupid
To the point where spamming f-smash is optimal
@@benji6325not even Little Mac can do that
@@splaturials9156 Kazuya is good but the input execution is the thing that keeps him from being easy to pick up and perform well with him.
@@benji6325spamming f smash is not optimal bruh wtf
@@JColeGlazer754 In last stock situations, when the opponent is at kill percent, yes, it is optimal. Acola will casually throw out two to three forward smashes in a row sometimes. If he gets hit, he can often just tech his own wall, and if he's in a situation where he can't do that, he made sure beforehand that he's not at kill percent himself. If the other guy gets hit, he just dies.
My biggest issue with Steve is he is not fun to fight at all. It makes me feel like I'm not even playing Smash half the time, and having to play by Steve's rules just makes it much less fun from a competitor and spectator point of view.
As a spectator I dont mind steve, I also think he is fun to play as, however, he is not fun to play against
thats alot of characters in this game@@extonjonas6820
I like fighting against him, cuz I have to actually think and I can’t mash mindlessly
I disagree, I have a lot of fun watching people get dunked by stevo, especially when they complain afterwards.
Also Steve Is not the unique character Who plays with His rules,in this category there are also FGC(FIGHTING GAME CHARACTERS).
The crazy creative bullshit I can accept.
It's the point of minecraft, and i can accept him being like that.
What I cannot accept is the really good moveset he has, like an unreacrable burst move that turns into a command grab projectile, a front smash that kills at 20%, brawl metaknights upair, absurd combos and so on.
If his point is to be creative and use clever tactics to outplay his opponents, why does he have one of the best moves in the entire fucking game?
The blocks seriously shouldnt be so hard to destroy considering how much they give him. Even a novice Steve can get resources quickly with that stupid wall of blocks
I’m so glad Steve is in smash, but I really don’t like using him. It feels like I’m playing a different game.
Time to bring back this golden quote.
(Banning wobbling is my favorite analogy, because it was a single instance of something breaking the risk reward structure too much.
Steve is running up against accusations of being a whole character of near wobbling, putting its hands in the face of these accusations, and going "im not touching you im not touching you".)
@@plusah1268You have no clue what I'm talking about...
He does outright have elements of that, given he is able to effectively be in 2 places at once with his notable issues.
when was that a quote
@@RandomIsADumbRandomGuy
A very, very underrated comment on an Esam video.
At least wobbling was a bit tricky to learn and the character had nothing else
If Steve did return in a future smash game, he'll be getting the Smash Ult Bayo treatment and heavily nerf him to kingdom come. Although, as someone who play tons of Minecraft and even modded Minecraft, it would make more sense to tweak a majority of his toolkit to accommodate a better representation of his series.
Like, instead of infinite mining in a "predetermined order", there should be a limit on how much you mine AND you can't mine anymore if your hotbar is at its limit. Also, it should be easier to have a random percent chance on certain items mined; like gold can be 5% mined and diamond should be a very small 0.01% get. Elytra is fine as it is but should have chip damage depending how much you hit something in acceleration. TNT detention should be minimized for partial shield damage and medium if not shielded. Minecart is hardly used in the game so a better kit is suited.
The wooden, stone, iron, gold, and diamond tools are fine as it is but there should be enchantments on said tools. Wooden should be kept as is but very weak and duration last only a few hits. Stone is just a bit stronger but has wood's duration by +2 or +3 extra hits. Iron duration is a bit longer and hits better. Gold should be fast and brittle. Diamond tools should have a bit of an enchantment of that Knockback effect so you couldn't play around him if hit.
Finally, blocks. I would say you can only used blocks depending how much of the material you have in the hotbar. You need 9 iron ingots for a block of iron so if you only have 8, no iron block. Anvil should be nerf to mostly a small hit percentage and not killing. Axe needs less swings. Lava bucket is only useful for chip damage. And sword swing should hit by a Knockback with medium percentage taken.
If done that as a better representation, then maybe he's doable. Alas, that's not the world we lived in.
Steve has always been the embodiment of "Mine" and "Craft" because thats the way he is for his mechanics in mincraft.
I think steve is a cool design but his numbers are tuned. Theres no reason for diamond f smash or back air to be that strong, same goes for down air and minecart. If diamond back air kills 20% later we have a fair character.
I could only imagine if Steve had access to Netherite.
i think if people played more characters, then there would be more answers found to play against steve. What if a really underrated mid tier is suddenly really good against steve? Yoshidora prooved that with Yoshi. The meta is heavily on using characters like Aegis, Rob, Cloud, Sonic, etc.
Yoshidora proved that with Yoshi...by having a losing record vs Acola?
@@legrandliseurtri7495 acola is just a better player, but yoshidora showed yoshi does well against steve. For example, Esam has a losing record against Sean. Even when Esam plays Pikachu which in theory should beat Captain falcon.
@@vicentecarretero4588 He is not a better player lmao, even though he’s very good, he’s still carried by Steve
@@wailmoregd140 bruh yall steve haters are a hive mind yall just say the same thing. “If a steve player wins they are carried if they lose they are bad” jesus 💀💀💀
@@vicentecarretero4588 those are contradictory statements? If every single game I played, I played game and watch, and mashed hammer towards my opponent, I would not be good. But lets say, but a stretch of luck, I hit 3 9's in a row and win the game. Would I not be carried by the 9 hammer? I did nothing else. So bad and carried. Thats playing Steve for ya.
People have mentioned this before but it’s so goddamn funny that not only is minecraft Steve in smash, but he’s unfathomably broken and the best character by a wide margin
I think its fine to ban a character that people have put hundreds of hours into playing if it invalidates basically the whole cast. Blocks are absurd and ruin the game.
If the only counter to a character is to play that character, you have a 1 character platform fighter. Nintendo was obviously trying to kill the game with Steve and Kazuya.
steve doesnt invalidate basically the whole cast...
Blocks.
@@crazykhespar8487he still does not invalidate the entire cast. Also the only solution to beating Steve is not playing Steve, you can win against him with a multitude of other characters
I agree. Normalize banning for a healthier competitive environment. Smashers are so scared to ban and have already let it ruin 2 iterations before this. Did we learn our lesson? Of fucking course not.
I hate playing against Steve with passion but I ain't gonna lie him being the best character in the game by far and having every comp player seething at the sight of him when he's so fucking goofy also causes me extreme amusement
I honestly do not understand this contrarian mindset.
At. All.
And so many people share it. Unreal
Whaddya mean contrarian? I said I hate Steve too
But I also find it funny that people have mental breakdowns because of losing to him, of all 80 characters in the game Minecraft Steve just had to be the broken one, it's comedy
I dont care if he gets banned I'm chilling either way, but that doesn't mean I'm defending him, he's insane
@@ngotemna8875ikr, how dare someone find something funny! The nerve of them!
@@ngotemna8875I think this is the mindset that's the epitome of the line between casual and competitive
@@ngotemna8875 You read his comment wrong lol
As HBox says “Steve gets buff every 2 hours” & he meant it
steve is fun on a casual level that most people are on but on tournament obvious controversy
Harvesting resources offstage is broken.
I miss when Joker was the best character, he actually has a lose condition 😭
He dies when you kill him
@@crazykhespar8487 He can sometimes stop himself from being killed because of a glitch, that's part of why they want to ban him 😭
@@CarbonMalite when that was discovered it should have been enough of an excuse to blanket ban him, but too many piss babies were crying about "well what if we just ban the glitch" even though you couldn't always tell that they used it intentionally and it was easy enough to do on the sly, plus they were crying about "well what if nobody really implements it" like we didn't go through two other games where people DID implement the broken stuff on their characters and ruined the meta. modern smash is just an exercise in proving melee players right, that their game is better.
no body has used that tech in tournament. Like please send me a video of someone using it.@@drewbabe
@@drewbabe Right?
I thought "FINALLY! This is a clear cut case of cheating.
And unlike wobbling it's not obvious at all. And sometimes can happen accidentally. Surely the character gets a blanket ban"
Nooooooooooope
Steve is just too powerful, he is practically in creative mode if you know what your doing with him even a little. The fabric of smash is broken by his existance, dude is a menace to society. No platform, make one. The blocks are just too good, although he wouldnt be nearly as broken if you couldn't use any of the discovered tech in tourney and could only do intended stuff...
The #1 thing I would change about Steve in Smash is making Steve unable to place blocks in midair (to make the blocks less op and more game-accurate).
Something to note on his shield, because of a glitch he is the only character to not be able to tilt his shield
Steve is a shining example that characters are not created equal or even close. Doesn't make sense to make a game where characters are SO much better than others. Also with Nintendo money why the fuck couldn't we get better online play. It's a fucking money grab.
I like to make the comparison, not just for Steve, but also for Sm4sh Bayo and Brawl Meta Knight, between them and Melee Fox, who is almost as broken as those 3 are and is more dominant than even Brawl MK. Despite that, Fox is considered far from banworthy. The difference, as I perceive it, is that Fox is a really fun character that elevates his game and improves the morale of the playerbase. The other 3, however, are absolutely horrible to fight and actively ruined the game for a lot of players. Really broken characters tend to be fine as long as they’re fun to fight, and unfun characters to fight are usually fine too when they aren’t overwhelmingly powerful. But the 3 banes of their respective games are both super broken and unfun to fight. (This is also a personal thing, but Steve, when optimized to a humanly realistic extent, is more broken than both Brawl MK and Sm4sh Bayo imo. He’s not there yet though so only time will tell how that holds up).
Fox has worse matchups in a smaller character pool than Steve which is why I also don't think Fox is anywhere close to as annoying as Steve.
Fox is the melee character I find the least interesting and I would watch a Fox mirror between non top players far before I watched Acola play another top player.
I want to remind you all of just the sheer amount of “prodigies” that cropped up after steve’s release. There was never a greater density of 15 year old kids beating top level players, all using steve.
It's impossible to deny that Steve players are carried by the character. Even many of the Steve players themselves know it.
It's pretty simple to beat top level players when they haven't adapted to the game changing, not many players are beating top levels with Steve anymore.
@user-py8oj5yv4m you’re straight up wrong sorry bro
Remember at the beginning people said that Wolf carried players? Now we have Steve and it's hyper carry.
I was looking to get back into competitive ultimate.
I am no longer looking to get back into competitive ultimate
Take a shot for every time you hear the word "blocks"
Steve: this guy is immortal, can create matter and destroy it, can move at the speed of light, can punch something to oblivion, and now is unbeatable in smash
"I lied" into sponsorship segment is a 0-to-death on your watchtime
I don't think I would mind Steve as much if he looked cool or if what he was doing was cool. That's something Brawl's Meta Knight has as a redeeming quality. As much as I hated fighting him back then, at least he looked cool doing what he did and actually has a personality.
As a yugioh player, I can confidently say that just because something has counter play, that doesn't mean that it shouldn't be banned.
Just because Steve has counter play doesn't mean that he shouldn't be banned. He's an undeniable problem, and I honestly feel like he's killing this game.
I'm not saying that ultimate is dead, but I am saying that Steve is certainly killing the game. You can't help but groan when you hear about how he's in the finals for the hundredth time in a row, and you know that the match won't even be worth watching because it's going to be a slog the entire time.
You'd probably have more fun watching grass grow.
Everyone who played a Card game can assure this. What's more, EVEN IF HE WASN'T THE BEST he would still be banworthy just because his gameplay is so degenerate, but being the best character in Smash just makes things so much worse. He just should NOT exist in Ultimate, nor Kazuya or Min-Min.
At this point wether he deserved to be in the game or not is a pointless discussion.
Character won’t be banned because the Smash community is deathly afraid of bans. If we get Ultimate deluxe though? He NEEDS to get gutted and pay for the warcrimes.
Agreed.
It doesn't matter who you are or what your status is, people will always find reasons to call you a "wasted slot".
he'll be in Kirby tier next game
@@emberpowertcg7692 lol, but also rip
@@emberpowertcg7692maybe he’ll receive the bayonetta treatment
@@emberpowertcg7692 Well, even if / when a true sequel comes along, characters that are essentially on loan, dont make the base roster. Steve is not owned by Nintendo so, they would need to do everything they did the first time to make that happen. Aside from that, I cannot even imagine how the community would react if he was added back into a true sequel.
I truly like Steve and enjoy watching him I feel he's one of the most entertaining characters to watch, but I do understand why people dislike him
I do wish there was more tournament variety. More circuits with different rulesets. Ban steve makes a lot of sense in hindsight, and I've changed my opinion on it with Steve and Kaz, but I do think there is a lot of merit in banning Fighters Pass 2 outright. Arguably the worst issues with the game come from that swatch of characters, and banning them individually one at a time would make the issues more apparent as the meta shifts.
I’ve been saying this!! I’m a casual player but I’m glad to see someone who thinks the same. Even fighters pass 1 has some ridiculous characters like hero and byleth that just aren’t fun to play against because it seems like they’re too good in too many areas. Most characters before DLC feel balanced and not too overpowered
It would be nice if Nintendo would show some love towards the SSBU community and release One Last Balancing Patch
Dlc fucks up the motive to make proper characters. Fuck dlc. (Sorry seph, i love you but...)
Seph is probably fine though, he’s not broken since his endlag is super super long
@@fishyfishyfishy500akabs8 seph would be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
I hate to advocate banning characters, but at least Metaknight was fun to watch
Yeah.
Meta Knight was busted, but watching two good meta knights fight was something special. 30 seconds of stock can happen entirely off, or under the stage.
Watching two Steves fight is just stupid.
Yeah, the Meta Knight v Meta Knight matches were at least enjoyable. This is not.
I gotta be honest I love watching Steve, he’s weird but I think the kit is fun. I feel the real problem is that it’s not fun to play against. Truly the biggest issue is that there’s been no proper balancing after release. His kit is very fun, blocks just need to have less durability, and other similar adjustments
Steve in Smash is like if a kid designed him; "I know you hit me but I already made a 3-layer wall and full diamond tools and then I can get in the mine cart and go really fast and then I can place blocks in the air (which you can't do in the game only I can do that) and then the blocks I place in the air give me more jumps like I was standing on the ground and then I use a lava bucket to burn you and then I win."
Fr that's the best way to describe him. The worst part? Any new kid picking up Smash will IMMEDIATELY gravitate to Steve.
@@charliekelly735It was the opposite for me. Played Steve and Mii Gunner (Sans Costume) when I first started playing Smash, and now I main four different characters: Mewtwo, Meta Knight, Ike, and Sephiroth. I do pull out the occasional Dedede, but I don't actively main or try to improve with him... might pick up Corrin though.
Honestly, didn’t even knew he was the strongest fighter in smash, used Steve for fun. I got lucky to buy him first lmao
He's still one of the reasons I don't play Smash Ultimate anymore...
The era of banning this character is known as “operation Steve-Leave”
People before: we need a Microsoft character in smash like minecraft
Same people now: we need to ban this character
that’s “plus sephiroth” was so disrespectful man lmfao
10:51
Ay hold up... di... did this man really just take a jab at my boy sephiroth like that!?
I'm sorry but getting edegegard because your opponent is cosplaying donald trump is freaking hilarious
minecart though....
Steve can also ledge jump block shield as a fully unpunishable ledge option
As much as I love Steve, he should be banned, or at least have tournaments without Steve and some with steve. He’s so fun to watch but I can’t lie he’s not healthy for the game.
same i have such a huge soft spot for steve, and it's a shame he's as overtuned as he is now. he's a visual treat to spectate and the animators/devs really went all in to bring this character to life. he's not healthy for the comp scene, but he's certainly attracted players to smash. my nephew didn't care too much about smash but bought ultimate for steve lol
i find it hilarious that for a short while, the meta game looked like a minecraft mod, because of everybody playing steve
I wanted Steve in smash for so long but when he got added I still didn’t have a switch, by the time I got one everyone hated Steve so I never played him cause everyone kicked me in arena. I play all low tiers and Steve is my secondary
Okay but like nobody hates Steve as a character they just hate him as an opponent, every can agree that the detail and care in the references and creativity of his moveset are astounding. I mean I agree he is broken but like that doesn’t mean everyone hates the entire character. But maybe I’m missing the point of the video, I don’t know.
Trust me there a people who hate Steve the character just because he is broken
The creativity is born from him being absolutely busted and part of why I hate him. If every button a character presses is great and has multiple use cases then of course the skill ceiling will be sky high. It changes it from learning how to play Smash as good as you can to learning how to play specifically Steve as good as you can. It's why I don't feel bad for the Steve mains if he gets banned. Ultimate has nearly 100 characters, if someone can only be a top competitor with 1 of them then maybe they shouldn't be a top competitor.
And I don't play so trust me when I say I don't have any hate for him as an opponent.
@@lasagnahog7695 I’m sorry, are you saying that the reason his moveset is creative (ie using an anvil or piston as an attack) make him hard to fight against? If he just punched for all of his moves and they all did the same thing, since it’s less creative, is it then that he’s not ‘absolutely busted’? The creativity in his moveset ideas isn’t from being a busted character, but from the designers being creative when coming up with ideas.
Smash players are understandably not keen on banning characters like they do with stages but maybe the line should be drawn at the character who can build things onto the stage itself.
I feel vindicated here because I said for years that Steve just doesn't work in smash. Yeh, he's in the game, but it feels like shoving a square peg in a ring hole. The only way he "worked" was to make his kit broken and annoying to play. Banjo-kazooie was better in every way.
Probably the least fun best character in any smash game. Bayonetta has an argument though. Smash ultimates meta died when Steve came out, we all miss the days where PT, Wolf and Wario were at the top of the meta game
imo SSB4 bayonetta is more boring because all they did was fish for the same 0TD every time
@@PaperGraysterYT True but when Bayonetta lost people got insanely hype. When Steve loses people are still in agony. Bayo is also much more interactive than steve.
@@maddox9511 yeah but they got hyped when bayo lost because of how many bayo mains there were and less characters stood a chance against her than steve
At least S4 bayo was hot and is an actual character with personality and expressions. Steve is a legoman that builds stage hazards and blatantly cheats.
@@VaneWalkerat least steve is funny tho
I probably did not. The part I do not like about him is that his flight is hard to control, and the only reason I like him is the enderman skin. I expected the final smash to be the wither summoning, but reality gets dissapointing and the REAL one was the creepers in a castle being blown up.
Literally the starter pack of ultimate,everything you want from a broken character given more broken options and your gaslit into thinking "he's slow though",at least he loses to some characters.
Who does he lose to?
@@crazykhespar8487hero and cloud
I love that you used bomberman hero music for the ad.
I think Steve would be a lot better if he was more like Hero or Shulk. Hero ane Shulk don't have access to all of their tools all of the time like Steve does. You have to scroll a menu. Steve would still play pretty much the same but you wouldn't be able to spam your whole kit at the opponent at all times.
So, you'd want him to have the option between having the minecart or having his forward smash, something like that?
Nah keep his creativity tools, just nerf his wood damage and frame data if he ever need any nerfs
@@legrandliseurtri7495More like actually making his negative aspects have actual downsides.
Using Shulk as an example, when he's in speed mode he moves and jumps faster which opens combos, but his frame data is still effectively the same, meaning that his new options are just from the increased mobility and not changes to his frame data or hotboxes. Plus there's the downside of decreased weight and increased knockback, meaning that he'll die to a light breeze if the opponent can break out of a combo or can pull a reversal on him.
Compare that to Steve who's downsides are similar to Pyra/Mythra dialed up to 11; his tools are either well balanced in terms of speed and power, some of them are faster but weaker (which is actually 2 advantages since it significantly opens up combo chains and options), while his slower and stronger tools aren't *that* slow while also allowing kills at shockingly low percentages (on a character who has literally thousands of ways to either set up or confirm those "slow" attacks). And that's not even including all of his jank with blocks and resources, which allows him to control the stage and match tempo with such oppression that it would make Melee Fox, Brawl Meta Knight and Sm4sh Bayo jealous.
Even though Steve is objectively the best character in the game and effectively invalidates half the cast, the only reason he's not banned is because of his steep learning curve and the fact that the other half of the roster he doesn't invalidate do have options (however few/difficult) to deal with him.
@@LoliPeeSlurper shouldn't be able to place blocks in the air. Can't do that in mc
@@davidc. Nah he should be able to, Smash Bros is 2D after all
So the only good character against Steve is another Steve?
i love steve
especially when he's against me because i know all the tricks
I wanted him in Smash and he deserves to be in. He's from Minecraft, THE best selling game of all time. Not including him in a celebration of gaming makes no sense. I just wish they bothered to actually test him properly during Covid and cared enough to watch him closely after release because he's fundamentally broken and not fun to play against or watch (most of the time). I'm so grumpy that this iconic character has all this controversy around him because Nintendo were lazy.
To break its own game rules by using blocks in Mid air without doing a Tower from the ground it's insane.
10 days passed
mining Is lagless now, Steve? broken as always
Alright, TIME TO USE STEVE :D
Minecart is lowkey a counter that goes across the entire stage
This character feels like a Smash 4 DLC character that was saved for this game. He’s jank as hell in a toxic way and not fun to play against in the slightest.
This is why Steve is the god of gods not only in his own universe but he instantaneously conquered Smash universe by a pivotal shot making him the god of gods and ultimately the S+ tier rank as a fighter
They hate Steve because he is too op..
To me the worst thing about Steve is how insufferably boring he is to watch and how frustrating he is to play against. I skip tournament videos of Steve because I hate watching him in the game. I SD out of any game where I'm matched against a Steve because whether I win or lose I'm left bored and irritated
I can fully understand everyone else's thoughts on why Steve is an ass, but yours is too self-centered and subjective lol, like instead of "He's too OP and unfair" its "Oh Steve is boring" like lmao ok
@@theoriginalman9426 that's why I said "to me" because I was giving what was obviously my subjective opinion.
Also how is "he's boring" more subjective than "he's unfair"?
@@benandrew21 Because "he's unfair" can actually be backed up with proof and facts, as stated by the video and everyone else, the "he's boring" argument is pretty much just subjective
@@theoriginalman9426 how is he unfair though? If you understand what he can and can't do then nothing should be surprising and therefore since you know he can do something it won't be unfair when he does it
I personally feel like it's not necessarily because Minecraft Steve is broken or anything, but more so because of how he was designed, the fact that he was developed during the COVID-19 pandemic (which included playtesting carried out online using the game's infamous delay-based netcode), and the fact that he can be obnoxious and toxic to fight in the hands of a sufficiently skilled player.
Steve apologists need to stop making excuses. The character is broken garbage and needs banned.
Steve, the man who can hold a multiverse in his pockets, he is literally too OP within and without
I remember, it was 9am in my statistics class in college, I was watching the direct. when I saw Steve I was so disappointed and sad that my professor said if I was okay, lol. He was like the only one I didn't want
LOLOLOLOL
Yeaaaaah lol there were so so many Microsoft reps that could've made it in haha.
@@shaydonwoolstenhulme4436master chief never
@@EpicMinecraftFail You mean basically snake 2.0? Now with DLC mechanics? hahaha
A wise man once said can’t beat em join em
They just made Steve a tad bit lore accurate
Japan’s best player Acola is incredibly dominant and mains Steve, so it makes me wonder what they think of the character?
I genuinely wonder if competitive Japan hates Steve as much as we do but they're way too nice and thus never complain about it, instead bottling up their anger.
It cannot be pleasant for them that Acola wins 90% of Japanese tournaments, with Miya winning almost all the rest otherwise.
@@l.n.3372 I usually translate Japanese comments where I see Steve discussions held and many of the Japanese commenters express the same sentiments towards Steve that we do. They're playing the same game we are so it makes sense, but for cultural and logistical reasons the concept of banning a character isn't realistic to them.
@@VaneWalker
I'm not as familiar with other fighting games as I am with Smash but I'm certain that characters must have been banned in other fighting games over time. Like Street Fighter or Tekken or Marvel vs Capcom, etc. And those characters would logically have been banned all over their respective competitive scene, not just in North America. So Japanese players of said games would likely have the same ban lists to be consistent.
@@l.n.3372 You're probably right but I also have no familiarity with other FGC games specific to Japan
Stages with caves of life tend to be banned in tournaments. And Steve can create temporary caves of life on a whim.
There's always going to be some hate for the best character. But Steve is worse than that. He's boring and looks worse. So unlike Fox in Melee, he's just boring.
He's a very unbalanced character in a mostly balanced game. More people would forgive him for that if he wasn't so boring-looking. Nothing he does is cool.
Back when Joker was number 1, he was at least fun to watch (unless he gun camped all game) because he’s an aggressive character by nature. When a character like Steve, who is incentivized to camp, is made the best, it’s no fun for anyone except maybe the Steve player.
honest question do u only watch ultimate or do u play in tournaments
@@K0DA._.
I won't lie, I never found Joker fun to watch because it got so damn boring to me whenever MK Leo won everything with joker. I didn't like the character at all until Leo dropped joker during the online era and nobody really used joker for about 2 years. Post quarantine, I grew to appreciate how difficult joker was to use and also to appreciate those few good players who did commit to keeping joker in the post quarantine era.
@@l.n.3372pyra mythra is more boring to watch to me
@@arbalest327
I'd hesitate to call them boring. They're cheap as hell tho. Basically if you combined Sheik speed in one form with Ike's kill power in another form. As such, I don't like them either. But Sonix has proven with edge guarding Pyra and Mythra that those two can easily be killed offstage, something that isn't easy when playing against Steve.
Steve is why competitive smash isn’t fun to watch anymore.
Boohoo
take a shot everytime he says blocks
Take a shot every time “blocks” is said
Nintendo made steve lore accurate 🔥🔥🔥
yeah yeah he's broken but cmon, it's MINECRAFT, i'm still shocked how he got added
Because it’s so popular. The best-selling game in the world.