Greetings and thanks for your video! I am a Chinese DCS player from Shanghai, China. While I cannot possibly state that I can represent the Chinese DCS player community, I would like to have my two cents here about the J-8PP. It will be lengthy, but I hope you guys find it interesting. Firstly, I believe from a Chinese player’s view every J-8 variant, be it J-8I or J-8II, or the PP variant, is a genuine, iconic Chinese product. No matter how the onboard avionics vary, J-8 is the first fighter jet independently designed, and domestically produced in China. Its historical value will remain no matter how the aircraft is modified. Through the development timespan of over 40 years, Chinese military aviation industry learnt how to independently design and develop a super-sonic, high-altitude interceptor, and later how to design and produce digital onboard avionics and electronics to fulfil the requirement of modern air combat. All of these lessons and doctrines are learnt mainly through developing and modifying the J-8 and J-8II air frames. It’s safe to say J-8 has witnessed the mutualization of Chinese fighter development, and the type has a special place in almost every Chinese aviation enthusiast. I would personally consider the idea that ‘a J-8II with Grumman avionics is not a genuine J-8II’ far-fetching therefore. Second, as a Chinese player I personally consider the J-8PP as a good representation of a Chinese fighter jet. To be specific, it is indeed a very good representation of a unique time period of Chinese fighter development. Ex-Chinese President Deng Xiaoping has a famous statement: “when crossing a river, cross slowly to feel every rock with your feet” (“摸着石头过河”). It generally means when you are not clear about some fields of technology, find yourself a good reference as guidance, get yourself adapted, until you can find your own way of mastering the technology. This was, and still is, the way that Chinese industry learns to produce something the industry has no experience of. As one of the comments on the ED forums goes, the Chinese aviation industry is iterative, taking careful steps, not really caring that there are trolls screaming “copy and paste”, and just progressing carefully, which proves to be the right way until they can afford taking more gambles and tech jumps later. In this regard, J-8PP is the perfect piece of historical relic that literally shows everyone how the Chinese has started get to know the modern digitalized avionic systems designed for better situational awareness and data management. J-8PP is a unicorn indeed, but it is also a unique snapshot in Chinese fighter development, showing everyone how the Chinese were trying to find their way across the river. Third, Chinese aviation history value aside, J-8PP can provide players with a fairly unique flight and combat experience. J-8 was born in the era of high-altitude, high-speed interceptors, when air-to-air missile technology was still in its infancy and one needed to rely more on the performance capability of the aircraft to complete those missions. The J-8 thus has superb performance regarding its speed, climb, and handling qualities. Many 3rd or 4th gen fighters have designs that emphasize more on multi-purposes capability, and missiles those aircraft carry tend to do more jobs that the aircraft itself. With US radar and fire control system the J-8PP becomes a platform that sits nicely between the 3rd gen and 4th gen aircraft. It has limited modern situational awareness, and can conduct air-to-air missions without relying totally on GCI. J-8PP's offensive capability, however, is still restricted by its limited variants of weapon payload. I can therefore imagine that the pilot is still expected to make the best use of the performance capability to explore its combat potential. J-8PP is a heavy interceptor modified with a modern radar. I would say its combat experience will be nowhere near F-16, which is a light-weight multi-role fighter with good situational awareness, modern electronics and diverse weapon systems. Its combat experience will also be different from 3nd gen fighters like MiG-21 or MiG-23, for which GCI guidance is essential and the capability for multi-tasking is close to none. It’s like a Chinese version of F-14. You have some electronic and digital systems in there, but you can still feel the thrust and the air stream through steel controlling cables.
Thank you for sharing your perspective as a Chinese player and making it so thorough. The "摸着石头过河" is quite interesting and something I did not think about when anticipating Chinese feedback. This actually makes a lot of sense why Chinese players would be accepting of the J-8II PP.
@@Enigma89 Thanks for your attention! 👍 I guess most, if not all, of the Chinese players will naturally consider J-8PP as an integral part of history in J-8 aircraft development. Therefore the PP will probably have close to equal status in our minds as F, B, D or other domestic variants. It is a crucial 'step' that cannot be forgotten. If you have a closer look at the principles and guidelines that Chinese aviation industry follows, you would not be surprised that a lot of technologies were introduced into China via import, or license-built foreign equipment, and later evolving into something different, and J-8PP is exactly such a introduction point. It's a unique stage to model, and also bypasses legal issues. Plus the US-made equipment will not change the operational doctrine, or the way that J-8II operates. The later Chinese domestic system serves the same purposes anyway.
Since RedFor is seriously lagging behind I'm happy to have and buy almost any new full fidelity addition. Being it RazBam's 23 or Deka's J-8II. At this stage, the only asset we have is the JF as a modern full fidelity opponent for BluFor... I'd definitely buy the J-8II, given the track record of Deka with maintaining the JF. Edited for typos.
If nothing else, I feel like the J-8II is gonna be an extremely interesting plane. Its not representative of the most used chassis, nor of chinese avonics; but then again, the J8' seems to be in many ways based on foreign technology anyway? Even if eg the J-10 radar is a chinese development, it followed western design standards and integration. In many was China directly relied on soviet and western tech, which is llkely why the Peace Pearl was even considered and greenlit in the first place. It was actually China that cancelled the program, not the US. And the J-8 upgrades didnt stop, but rather went to use parts eg from Israel. The Peace Pearl has the design heritage of a soviet interceptor, heavily developed into a chinese plane, upgraded with western avionics. How is that not an amazing thing to have? In some ways, the Peace Pearl seems to be like a long lasting, ultimative tailend of the Mig-21s evolution. Maybe it can be accused of being a unicorn or "paper" plane, but its both a realistic proposition, was apparently quite advanced and based on existing tech. Its the exception to the rule, and about as legit as an aircraft that only existed as prototype can be. Its not like World of Warships Soviet battleships fleet (ew) or War Thunders Panther 2 (lol).
@@Monarch_GNSG I feel with you ... at that stage it was a promising aircraft addition ... I still hope this madness will be resolved to benefit both parties
Same here, high-fidelity Red jets are nearly non-existent, and as much as I'd prefer something less modern I'll gladly take this over another expensive post-2000 US fighter that flies itself and cannot have a peer opponent in this game because of OPSEC.
@@LeoH3L1 even if it never was in service. That’s just me though, flying flight sims was never about the precise realism or recreating a specific fight, conflict or mission. I enjoy the experience of it, the fight that I’m in at that time, the mission that my squadron briefed, tailored to the strengths of that given aircraft. Also understanding the aircraft that I get to fly is a big joy to me. The only ‘realism’ requirements I have for an aircraft is that it carries real weapons and that a version of it existed and flew(I.e. the other versions of the J8)
@@LeoH3L1 Same thing could be said about Ka-50. Inb4 Chechnya, it wasn't the same version we have in DCS, the only screen in cockpit was the one used by Shkval
No one asked for the JF17 Thunder either but it turned out to be I think the most complete module at time of release (no early access). Since most Redfor jets we ask for are pretty much locked down by government regulations etc we should be happy with what we get.
@@Enigma89 No, it's not. Other games are available that cater to the market with lower fidelity modeling. We have a choice between these products, and do not need every single product on the market, to cater for everyone's need.
@@Enigma89 I wouldnt say no to a Flaming Cliffs 4, if thats what you mean. As much as I rarely fly it, FC3 seems like such a valuable addition to DCS. It shows that a "semi-realistic" aircraft line-up can exist in a minor role, besides the ultra high quality aircraft fleet. But I also feel its useful to have the seperation. With FC3 you know what you get, and with full detail DCS module you also know what you get. Thats what really makes it work imo.
@@braeddie Hi, can you point me towards what games cater to the market of Low-Fidelity combat flight sim? while i enjoy the DCS so far, sometimes i want something simpler, Warthunder is a grind fest and i'm to old to dedicate that much time to reach the planes i like. Arcades are also not my thing. Strike Fighters used to scratch the itch, but i hope something will take it's place.
I'm a Chinese, when ed released the news on Bilibili(Chinese version of UA-cam), most of comments are happy. I'm sure everyone knows J8II pp is the most possible and latest red Chinese jet to be in The DCS world. And Peace pearl project did helped later J8II. It's a bit like when you don't have UA-cam, Bilibili is good enough, and might even be better in some areas.
I want the MiG-23 module so bad. I know 2 pilots in IRL that flew MF/ML variants both agree it was a beast plane. One of them acutaly was the first pilot in our airforce who flew this aircraft in 1978, he had total of around 800 hrs on Flogger.
Plan on waiting at LEAST another 5 years. Razbam only has 2 coders and at one point they were working on the Mirage, Farmer, Flogger, Harrier, and MudHen all at the same time. Since the MudHen just released it’s going to be the focus for the next year or two. The MiG-23 is a long way away.
As the RAZBAM issue may prevent their MIG-23 ever being released, do you know of any devs who could liaise with your air force buddies to bring the MIG-23 to DCS??
I'll buy it because : 1 - I love interceptors 2 - I like to learn corky planes 3 - As you said it's probably the only way to have J8 4 - Deka does a great job of giving us capable aircraft (not like the empty shells that you need 3 years of wait to use them (hello F16)) and more diversity (I don't know Chinese planes and they make me discover some) 5 - More planes on DCS means more possibilities means more satisfaction for more people means more players means more budget means more niche aircraft means more possibilities... Thanks for your work around DCS and have a nice day
Chinese here. According to my observation, most Chinese players don't care (or particularly care) about which specific variant will be made. For us, it is a J8 is enough. Yes, we also want the J8F or the more advanced J10, but we also know how little hope it is. The J8PP's entry into DCS has already enough made us cheer. For most Chinese players, the DCS: J8II is a must-buy, and I am sure that when J8PP is released, J8 in most Chinese servers will be allowed to carry PL12 to emulate more advanced J8 variants, just like J11A in many servers can carry PL12 now.
It is a shame its a unicorn plane. But, if the dev has problem getting documentation on a fully Chinese plane then I don't see it as an issue. If its the only way to get a Chinese plane into the game with as much realism as possible then that's fine by me. In the end, I am just happy to see more content added to DCS, and even more happy to see cold war modules.
Chinese player here, my personal point of interest regarding the J-8 is more about its flight characteristic. This jet used to be nicknamed 'the double 2', which goes mach 2 at 20000 meters, so that even if its avionics will have nothing new to offer (I'm pretty sure it is not the case tho), its airframe certianly will. And then there is this vague hope that it will one day get upgraded to the J-8F variant. All J-8 in active Chinese service are probably going to get retired in a couple of years, and give it a few more years for the documents to declassify, we may eventually get something fox3 and datalink capable based on the same platform. Imagine an interceptor with avionics comparable to the Jeff going mach 2 at 20000 meters throwing PL-12(SD-10), this thing is going to be a beast even in the face of more modern fighters such as the strike eagle and typhoon. In fact in the Chinese community we've been keep joking with Deka members with 'D, I want this' while sending pics of J-10/J-16/J-20, or 'go ahead and make the J-20, we'll be in charge of delivering fine food to you during jail visit'. But then jokes aside we all understand that this is the best Deka can do as of this time. Better than nothing and full of potential.
01:42 lol But to be honest I probably buy the peace pearl if not only to support the devs. I can't see how we can get an authentic Chinese jet because of the documentation issue. And oh... plz gib F-16A!
It actually amazed me how ungrateful people where, when this was announced. We're getting a full fidelity gen 3½ Redfor jet! Something WE NEED! I'd way rather want this than a Mig-19 with a nose cone and bombs... I don't like Chinese jets at all! I have no interest whatsoever. Had it been a domestic variant, then i wouldn't even considered buying it. But the J8PP is Soviet enough for me to be interested, mixed with avionics from the F-16 which is one of my favorites. This not only gives Redfor more capabilities, it also allows me to somewhat roleplay as an F-16A while flying as RED. So I'm 100% gonna buy it. Its a unicorn? So what, not like that's gonna ruin peoples realism. DCS Matchmaking has been F/A-18s and F-15s vs F-16s and F-14s for years now anyways! Ruining MY "realism".
Great video. What I like about DCS full fidelity modules is learning about some of the systems within and being blown away like “wow somebody designed this to work this way” and you get to use historical aircraft in virtual combat to get a glimpse of how things may have came together in battle. With unicorn aircraft that wow somebody made this factor is gone cus quite literally no one can tell if 2 were actually made and flew or how along they got in the prototype stage before stopping. Variants matter and beyond the J-8 I hope future module makers aren’t dissuaded from building other early model versions of jets. I’d love a F-15A or F-16A, even early model Hornets. That late 70s era going into the 80s where jets were getting incredible performance but the PGM stuff and display stuff in the cockpit wasn’t like a space ship just yet is wonderful.
I can’t wrap my head around the MFD hate. I fly the MiG-21, Mi-8, and F-18 and I wish the MiG-21 had something to make it just a little bit more viable outside the mid Cold War setting.
Hi Enigma, I'm a Chinese DCS player as well. In addition to Jeremy's comment, I want to add some more information. Does the Chinese DCS community love the implementation of J8PP? Yes, we do. Do we think it's the best J8 variant to make? No, we don't. We prefer J8D (head-on fox 2 and fox 1 capable) or J8F (fox1, fox2, and fox3 capable, glass cockpit, HMD, link 16 equivalent DL) which are 100% Chinese, but we DO know that J8D/F is not possible to make due to classified materials and J8PP is the only variant that DIS can gather enough sources to model a DCS quality module. About the J8PP aircrafts themself. Two J8II and a full-size nose model were made and sent to the US. Both aircrafts pass flight tests before being sent to the US. The US studied the design and made modifications to both aircrafts. The backs are raised to fit 1553 bus, adding lightning protection stripes to the radome, and adding extra small air intakes to cool the added avionics..... Bush Authority refuse to return any J8PP after the end of the collaboration but eventually agree to return the two built J8PP aircrafts and leave the nose model in America. Both J8PP has later been through thorough investigation including testing the EM compatibility and they pass. The PLA airforce then decides to stop developing along the American electronics due to lack of more Western technology support and potential back door built in those American avionics. But Chinese engineers learned a lot of new concepts during the PP program and shape the design ideology for modern Chinese military aircrafts. Both J8PP are well preserved until the day we speak now and are on display in Museums. 4:45 is actually a genuine J8PP aircraft on display. Some more interesting information regarding DIS and J8PP. I heard rumors that DIS was thinking about making a Su30mkk, J8 or Q5 module. PLAAF refuse the request of information about the Su30 MKK, and DIS thinks J8 will have better sells over Q5. So maybe one day in the future we will get a Q5 attacker, which is 100% made by Chinese aircraft, or maybe even J10CE, just like JF17, who know?
@@Enigma89 Same here about the Q5. Also maybe a bit off-topic, really enjoyed your server, and thank you for all the efforts you and your team put into it.
While this aircraft doesn't interest me tremendously personally, I do think it's a cool plane and the mix of eastern and western functionality is a really neat idea. I have a few friends who like Eastern aircraft but really struggle with the avionics and systems. They're quite excited for this one as a sort of halfway in between.
I'm pretty new to DCS and I've only played on ECW. Personally I will probably buy any plane or map that is featured on the server. If a map like South Atlantic or Top End Australia comes to ECW I'll buy it. If unicorn planes like the Peace Pearl come to the server I'll probably buy it. From a story perspective I already view the server as alternate history Cold War, since the fights we depict didn't actually happen in real life. It doesn't break my immersion to have non-historic things on the server as long as they feel believable for the time period.
i’m excited for this, i’m definitely someone who thinks the peace pearl is much preferable to having no j-8 at all. and it’s not like deka is doing something out of the ordinary with this basically un produced plane given how long the ka-50 as we know it has been around. i also think there’s a lot of value in dcs or other flight sims as virtual museums, and bringing a rarer aircraft to dcs in full fidelity certainly falls under this for me
ED在将高级航电带入他们产品之中时，是从su-25t开始的。而FF级别的模组，是从黑鲨开始的。这俩实际上，都只是实验性质而不是广泛服役的，ED也是在这样的一种情况下才得以发展出我们今天看到的DCS。 The DCS community some times forgot how DCS made this far. When ED was trying to introduce better avionic simulation and PFM back in the day, they did it with Su-25t. After that, the first DCS product, the very fist stand-alone full fidility module, was the Ka-50. These two are by no means widely used or entered mass production, and that is the reason ED could be lisensed get their hands on them. Frankly, the DCS we have today starts with Frankenstein, and the new Black Shark 3 is obviously a hybrid. ED did what they could, and so did Deka. Nither should be criticized, since they are just trying to bring us all they have to offer.
I really love to support module makers I like. Deka did a great job with jf17. And I will probably buy their j8 just to support them. Even if I’m most likely won’t fly it at all (aside from few demo session. Or on tempest server)
I do wonder how many people are like you and buy everything just to support the game or a module maker in general. Would you do the same if it was a new/unknown module maker? Is it the fact that it is Deka pushing you over the edge to buy it?
@@Enigma89 if that would be redfor - yes. Id buy it from any maker. For blue for - I guess depends if I really like it or not (eg I definitely going to buy chinook; and I’m not really interested in f4 at all)
@@Enigma89 lol. I heard it still have a lot work to be done and definitely haven't reached the final stages yet. Thanks for the clarification. Would love to see the J-8pp on your cold war server if possible.
So I'm in a unique perspective, the MiG-21Bis was my main module, until I got the JF-17, I also started flying the Su-33 (and other FC3 modules) lately and am exclusively a Redfor pilot. I LOVE the J-8 and actually requested the J-8E specifically, I remember being excited as all hell for the J-8 to get announced, then saw it was the J-8II, still excited, than I realized what the variant is, and I kinda lost all interest, but I thought about, realized this was going to be the only way, and at the end of the day its still a J-8. We technically already have strange/unrealistic modules but there are some machines that aren't service vehicles that I would love to see built up to sim level detail. I'm also hoping we potentially get other variants down the road. I'm going to get the J-8. And to answer your question, what makes me decide I'm getting the module is purely on the aircraft, if I got a passion for the aircraft I can fly whatever, I hated the mirage 2k as my first module and uninstalled it, got the MiG-21Bis right after it and loved it to death! The JF-17 (being the closest successor to the MiG-21) I love it just as much!
IMO, I think bringing in the J-8 is pretty cool. Regardless that it's a Unicorn. IIRC, The SU-25T is a Unicorn as well and that's something everyone starts off with and I also still fly quite often. Mainly as there is no other good option for modern-ish REDFOR A-G aircraft in the core game(Please make a MIG-27!) Me personally, If the J-8 does come to fruition, I'll be picking it up. I really enjoy the late 70's to early 90's aircraft. The Mirage F1 is probably my favorite CW fixed wing to fly with the majority of time in the CE variant. And truth be told, it's actually made me better in the more modern aircraft like the Hornet, Warthog, Viper and the Flanker variants. Personal Opinion though, I would love to see some more weapons added to the Flankers as well as some general updates to them too. Such as adding a J-15 variant to list with some variant of the R-77-M or R-77-1. By adding a 2-seater aircraft to the FC package, that would effectively round out the "Starters" aircraft package of Flaming Cliffs and it'd still be Carrier capable.
My quite boring take on this is that I don't really care, the module doesn't interest me or pique my interest but I don't hate it either. Unicorn planes and hybrid/frankenplanes don't interest me much but I'm not against it being in DCS as long as it's competently modelled. It's better that's it's available for people that do want it and then mission makers and purists can remove it if they really don't like it.
I don't feel strongly about the Peace Pearl. I'm probably not going to buy the J-8 regardless of which variant it is. I'm happy for people who are happy about it tho. Those upset about it could probably chill a bit.
I dont care how low production or rare a plane was. I like buying planes that are unique and this J8 fits that. Also more Redfor planes always good. I want my mig 23 already lol
Not a developer for the Northern Australia map, but as an ex-RAAF member posted to Top End, I can assure you there is a strong defence presence here - in the same way Nevada has a map, it's one of the Southern Hemisphere's largest air weapons ranges (Delemere range). Annually a large contingent of Aus, US and other allied and neutral countries visit and bomb the hell out of the remote Aussie outback while testing each others skills. Google Ex Pitch Black, which is like our Red Flag. Not saying it's going to be a big seller, but if Nevada justifies a map then this is no different.
I mean, the first module was the Ka-50. Yes it was not quite a unicorn but it was a limited production and the Ka-50 III version of the module to my knowledge IS a unicorn (or even fictitious), not to mention only 12 Su-25Ts were built and it is the starter plane. I have no problems with it. That opens up some unique possibilities. The only 5th Gen we can potentially hope for is MAYBE (and still a long shot) a YF-23, only two prototypes were ever built. The most modern Russian jets we could hope for are the prototypes of the Su-47 and Su-37 (and in the case of the Su-37 it no longer even exists due to a structural failure and therefore a DEAD unicorn). Perhaps Bandai Namco could be brave and enter the third party developer sphere with aircraft IP they fully own from Ace Combat (the less outlandish ones anyways). Finally we could have aircraft that are fifth gen + that require no national security issues to be resolved, such as the XFA-27. This is honestly a more likely entry of fifth generation airframes into DCS than even the YF-23.
Great analysis. My perspective: 1. I am not Chinese, but I think there is great marketing value in adding Chinese planes. This enhances interest in DCS, broadens the market. 2. This plane adds to the momentum, competition, and universe of modules. 3. My drivers to buy - 1) Do I just like the plane? 2) Does it teach me something new? 3) Does it have interesting history? An example of this, is while the A-10 (all variants) and F/A-18 are my core favorites, I also purchased the AJS-37 (because I think road take-offs are cool, even if I find the lack of internal cannon annoying), the Gazelle (never had a copter before, but I love it), and the MiG-21 (I am horrible at flying it, but love learning how to do it better). The point is, DCS offers not only game play, but learning. This is what keeps it intellectually alive for older players like myself. I might suck at flying or battling others, but learning something new is always enticing.
Instead of pontificating this week, I thought I would lay out what I read in community and surface all the arguments that were for and against the module. I have to say in my time in DCS, this announcement was one of the most heated things I have seen. I look forward to reading your thoughts.
I've lost all hope at this point. It's the same thing with MSFS or X-plane, we get 5000 modern airliners but it seems we cannot have ONE good DC-3 or some classic 1950s airliner done right💀 It's the same thing with DCS, it's flooded with useless stuff, the stuff that counts is dying a slow death or straight up fails meanwhile everybody is excited to buy the F-15E, yet another MFD simulator.
@@mro9466Umm, what? F-4E inbound in the near future. A-7E in the works. A proper F-14A in the works. A recent F1 released. A Mig-23MLA in the works. A released Mi-24P. A Kifer in the works. The F-5E getting updated in the works. The Mig-21bis getting updated in the works. A vary strongly hinted SU-17/22 apparently in the works. I'm sorry but what more do you want?
@@sasquatchycowboy5585 it's one thing to have the module out the door, it's another having support and content for it. Who flies the i-16 ? The Mig-19 ? Hardly any campaign for most of these aircraft, no assets or map that match the period either. DCS player base is 90% focused on F18/F16/Apache and soon F15E.
Imo better to have it with the well documented western avionics, that will work within their realistic performance (which most probably would be quite similar to late chineze ones), then to have a totall guess work ones, as for sure they want be able to get the info on classyfied chineze ones
New Unique Jet: Plus Jet is not western made: Plus Uses Western Avionics: Not too pleased but alr They don't want to go to jail: Understandable have a nice day
Very well done video, especially the point about authenticity of the plane. The J8 PP isn’t an authentic Chinese plane, but it is a redfor plane so it get the job done, until a newer better redfor plane comes out. I do have to correct you for one point though, the reason deka can’t make a more modern plane is not due to documentation issue(there &:enough documentation online(creditable) for them to make a model),but more a security issue, deka posted on Bilibili (Chinese UA-cam equivalent) saying J8 PP is the limit set by the military when they asked for help and permission (that’s how they manage to get into one of the prototypes and took photo for modelling), so unless the military think planes like J11B or J10A is ok for release, J8 PP is what we have to cope with.
I did mention this but maybe it was not done in a clear way. What I meant is that in effect, the documentation doesn't exist because it can't be used due to security issues. Thanks for sharing a perspective from China.
@@Enigma89 A ok, that cleared it up . Oh also I do forget to mention deka also said they are more interested in masking a J10A then a J11B, as the lateral is just a su27 with some Chinese avionics and weaponry, J10 does represent more interns of uniqueness
From my own perspective, this is the *only* REDFOR fast mover I'm interested in actually buying BECAUSE of the commonality with western systems. I have limited time, I'm not learning a completely different system set just to fly a a MiG or Sukhoi. But if I can hop in this thing and be 1/2 way to running it because I'm already standardized on the systems, then I'll bring it into the stable.
@@hansloyalitat9774 I'm an adult with a job, reserve duties, offspring, and other hobbies. My DCS time is limited, and I'm not wasting it on things I'm not interested in learning.
you can learn to fly the low fidelity redfor planes in like 3 hours. Best bit is you learn one and you can pilot the other 3 because they are all the same
I am always excited for more modules. I am more in the camp of "lets have more commonly used aircraft" but a few modules in that "Unicorn" area can be cool too.
I think that the J-8PP will be a great addition to dcs world, not just does it bring forward a new, relativly modern Redfor High-fidelity jet of wich some variants were still being built up until recently, but it brings other unique 'unicorn jets' like the F-20 Tigershark or the F-16XL into the spotlight. I mean, having the F-16XL or the F-20 as a high fidelity module would be really cool, and the J-8PP might be what makes it possible. So for anyone (and by that I mean no one lol) who wanted to know my opinion, I think the J-8PP should be welcomed into DCS and celebrated as a great addition to Team Red.
I would buy this module because it is a J8.. no matter who makes it and no matter the version we get. Me simple... me like J8. As long as the aircraft itself was produced (other J8 versions which were numerous), i dont really care if this specific version is a unicorn or not. Great Video!
What gets me about this is for years ED have said they wanted to only ever include aircraft that went into service, because they didn't want DCS to become basically a more difficult war thunder, they wanted it to be a serious simulator, or at least something very close to it, this is neither, none of the prototypes where ever finished, and the whole peace pearl program was cancelled, so if they where serious about what they where saying then this has no place as an official module in DCS. IF it does have a legitimate place then what about all the other aircraft that where cancelled before entering service, will we get a DCS:TSR2, or how about an F107, F108, orF-111K. There's easily enough information about those that is not classified now that they could be made up to DCS's standards, or at least somewhere between the FC3 aircraft and the "full" fidelity modules. THAT is the issue I have with this, FOR YEARS, that has been the official line from ED, it was one of the official reasons why something would not be an official module....
I'd be on the fence if it were a random new developer, but this is deka. The jf17 was the prefect module in my eyes, not talking about the plane itself necessarily but the quality of the module ever since it was launched. I'm expecting deka will put the same level of care into the simulation of the j8II PP, in which case it's a no brainer, especially because I find the plane itself to be very interesting historically. I'm not a realism freak, even if it was partly fantasy, modules like the ka50III and this one don't bother me, all I care about at the end of the day is having fun even though I still want something grounded in reality. Thanks for the video, good stuff 👍
The single seat version of the KA-50 as represented in BS3 is fully made up, and no one seems to have a big problem with that. It's a theoretical hybrid of the early KA-50 which had extremely low production numbers at best, and the later KA52. At least Peace Pearl actually existed.
Though I'm relatively new to DCS (only having purchased the Mig-21 and FC3). I am considering getting the J-8 even if the choice of the variant is rather wack. This choice isn't exactly based on who's making it (though afaik JF-19 was competently made) but instead the era of the jet itself being another single seat CW jet with only fox-1s for radar guided AAMs (Inb4 this has fox-3s) in which case, currently the modules that meet this category would only be the mig-21 and Mirage f1 in addition to a few upcoming modules. *edit: some minor grammar
@@aidenchen1275 personally, main issue with m2k is that though it may fit in with what i said, it doesn't exactly fit in era wise being a fairly late cw fighter. but aside from it's comparatively lacking missiles i have consistently enjoyed it whenever i trial it, as for F1 i've been wanting to get it just haven't gotten around to it yet though tldr m2k good but missiles lacking/uncompetitive
I honestly don't care that it has American equipment. I want some REDFOR aircraft that can punch at the level that some of the BLU aircraft can similar to how the JF-17 does. I think the J-8II might be one of these albeit a bit older, but my love for the MiG-21bis causes me to really look forward to this outrageously over-engined Chinese upgrade that may actually have missiles that can hit a target more than 5 miles out (R-3R anyone?)
"I want some REDFOR aircraft that can punch at the level that some of the BLU aircraft can similar to how the JF-17 does" J-8 will get at max a semi active PL-11s
@@jetfighter200 Well yeah, the J-8 is a bit older. It's a funny aircraft with funny modern avionics and funny weapons. I'm confident an insane person like me who likes the Fishbed will love having some better Fox-1s.
I regard Deka quite highly as a third party module maker. The free asset packs is amazing effort which they provide free of cost. I applaud the development of a definitely redfor full fidelity cold war plane, though the unicorn nature throws me off of a purchase of the PP.
Deka did a great job modeling the Jeff so I’m more than willing to give their modules a try when they come out. Module maker’s track record means more to me than the qualms specific to the jet like low to zero production runs in history
I am very happy for this module!!! I had posted in deka forums when J-17 came out for making it next. Either way it will be a good addition to the sim. It’s the closest we are going to get to something similar to a native J-8 or Su-15 neither of which are close to being viable.
I'd like to see them get the core jets out there 1st so that we can have fully flushed out eras. Then maybe they can do some unicorn jets. I would really like to try an F20 tigershark for instance.
@@hansloyalitat9774 Almost like the Black Shark III. Better to have this plane that having no one. I'm sure is going to be plenty useful despite your opinion, if you dont like just don't buy and enjoy playing with others planes that you do
@@hansloyalitat9774 If you're seeking to simulate any real conflict at DCS with it being where it is right now you're playing the wrong game entirely. You'd be better suited to Strike Fighters 2, BMS or WOFF. DCS is so all over the place that you literally can't even make simple time-fixed scenarios. The only modules that have decent overlap are the ww2 ones (and they're spotty as heck) and the Sabre/MiG-15 (which have almost NO supporting assets, you know, like a KOREA MAP?)
@@hansloyalitat9774 Okey, so you prefer only to simulate real conflicts before simulate real aircrafts systems and behaviours even if the aircraft is "not real" and play in fictional scenarios.That is ok and you can do it even if Deka develop the J8II or not. I recommend to you also to read the chinese players opinions here in comments and to open your mind a bit.
Personally I'm on board with this. It's really is just a neat gen-3 frankenstein of eastern and western tech. The avionics probably interact (or more like don't interact) in a pretty clunky way.
Thanks for the video. Lots of points, numerous comments. Very nice to see people engaging in meaningful conversations . As for the model, my opinion is in the end is a business decision of the producer and ED, and less about 'me'. If I like it I will buy it, or not. If I don't my experience in DCS will not alter. Personally I have more than enough modules, double that number in books and mamuals, and still learning to fly them. For this module in particular if I buy it will be because: - single seat - radar that I have experience with (easier to use, less time learning something completely different) Reasons why I wouldn't buy: - I had very little interest on this model (excuses to those who admire this plane) - One more interceptor, I would be more interested in attack planes Again thanks for the video
Actually, I asked for this. I wanted a slightly better MiG-21 that will be able to keep up with the F-5 and F-4. The J-8b is a formidable 3rd generation fighter, but due to a protracted development it became operational well into the 4th Gen and was always obsolete. The MiG-23 will also fill this niche.
For me, its what personal connection i have to the airplane, for example: F16 is at my local airbase, MiG21 and 23 are some that my father told me about and SU17 is the one i work on from time to time
Putting my own personal thought on how seeing the J-8PP in the announcement affected me, before watching the rest of the video: Primary thought was "curiosity". "Deka is a good module maker, so that doesn't worry me, but how in the heck is a Chinese plane with US avionics gonna feel like? I must try this!" It is a shame that it's not a normal J-8 II, which would fit better in DCS, but also that one isn't really the kind of plane I play usually, so the PP might actually be more up my alley anyway.
I honestly realli like the idea that we gonna have some more chineese jets, I personally, big fan of Redfor, and i would gladly see some more multiroles for it. Even bombers, since ground pound is really cool in DCS, I would gladly Hug Su-24, Or any other variant berween Su-17 and 22. (considering it would fit nicely in Cold War Scenarios)
This is a well done video. I will admit as some time has passed I'm less salty about the PP. However I'm still not planning to purchase it. From my view it kind of defeats the purpose of everything I enjoy about a full fidelity sim. To me, representing what it's like to learn and operate real military aircraft is like the whole appeal. I even bind the controls of every plane differently to try to match their real life layout. So a plane that never really finished being made and doesn't exist in any numbers just has no appeal to me
Main Reasons for me to buy new modules: - Is it interesting (Looks pretty, goes really fast, has something unique, ...)? - Does it offer something no module in my collection has? - Is it fun to fly? I don't think the J-8 will be a module for me. It looks butt-ugly and will probably have similar weaponry and sensors as all other western modules. Of course my perspective isn't influenced by focussing mostly on PvP of the coldwar period as it is in your videos. I mostly fly PVE-missions in a modern setting with a squadron using any module I like. We often have KA-50s flying alongside Apaches while JF17 and F16 fly CAP / SEAD / whatever.
Definitely going to get it - the fact that it's a Unicorn Airplane actually enhances my interest. Add in Deka's well established reputation for quality and ongoing support, along with the interesting role this can play in PvP, and it's a no-brainer purchase. One thing the haters seem to ignore is that this aircraft wasn't a failure, it was a victim of circumstance. It would've flown and it would've been MORE successful than the domestically produced variants of the time (which was the entire point of the IRL project!). I'm POSITIVE Deka would rather bring us a Full Fidelity J-15, but just as with modern RU jets, it's just not gonna happen. Not only that, there is a general surge in DCSW development around Gen 3 Cold War aircraft & popularity, so it may just be that Deka have correctly read the tea leaves... This is a GREAT compromise module and I look forward to seeing how it fares in the skies of DCSW.
I think the Peace Pearl is neat. The Frankenstein of both western and Eastern tech is cool but at the same time if it was a full fledged domestic Chinese jet, it wouldn't hurt either and its not the first time this happened in regards of unicorn, the Ka50 black shark III can be considered a unicorn as it never had the third extra pylon.
Looking forward to this iconic Blue For jet. Jokes aside, if it's modeled well, could be neat, sucks Deka hit the mil sec wall and couldn't do a more common J-8, but what can you do? DCS, especially for Red For is a game of taking whatever you can get.
I hate that it’s a unicorn. But, the fact that there are basically no FF redfor aircraft means it’s the one of the select few to fill that role. I probably still won’t buy it considering the MiG-21 is planned to be reworked. It’s a dud of an announcement, there’s no way around it. However, let’s not forget that ED and other 3rd party devs have ‘dibs’ on modules that we don’t know about. I have a feeling Deka is working around what’s already being worked on.
What pushes me to buy a module is the airframe and what can push me away is if who developed the module has a bad track record. The modules I want most and have wanted most for a long time are the MiG-29A, The Su-27, Su-33, and A10A to be done as full fidelity and the F-16A, F-15A, and F/A-18A Late cold war has always been my point of interest, and I think having blufor the aircraft everyone in the modern area love done in their late cold war Fox-1 variants could draw quite a few away from their MFD's to come try out the cold war era. Honestly something I feel DCS has a current issue with is map focus, some maps are perfectly viable and a great choice because they offer something up related to historical operations or what if cold war scenarios such as Caucus, Persian gulf, Sinai, Syria, or the Kola map, meanwhile other maps leave me scratching my head as to either why are they done specifically this way or at all? And why does it seem some dance around certain areas? Such as aside from the Australia map, why does Marianas only have Blufor islands when Blufor are the carrier powerhouse? Also why do we have three desert maps that could have included Iraq but haven't? There are many maps that offer alot in terms of potential that aren't being made such as Vietnam, Korea, the Fulda Gap, etc. While I get that there sometimes are valid reasons for these things, even up to lately the devs, ED included haven't seemed to listen to player wishes or feedback, and in some cases such as the MiG-29A 9-12 which was supposed to be developed after BS3 we have been told nothing.
Any new module for this game is fantastic. I won't be buying it ... Why? Well, because I'm a Helo guy myself ... BUT ... BUT .. BUT This does give us more balance of aircraft to choose from. This does help develop DCS into a more comprehensive program and market. My thought is: The Saab AJS-37 Viggen was released in 2017. Did the Viggen have a huge fanbase? Compared to the Tornado or the A6 Intruder ... No Is it an incredible module that fills a NICHE market (ie. non-NATO) .. Yes Has it benefited the community since 2017 ... YES The Viggen was not my first choice ... BUT if I fly fixed wing ... I FLY THE VIGGEN. My point is, lets celebrate this and see what it brings ... No one loses and everyone wins. We don't have to buy it ... if we do, we win. If we dont, we fly with it when another DCS pilot flys it .. We win ... I am grateful and say ... Whoop Whoop ... LETS GET ON WITH IT!
What I dislike the most about the variant choice was that it was a prototype that didn't enter service, hence it compromises the authenticity of what it represents. Deka has also said they made this one given the other late modernized variants they wanted to do weren't possible, so feels like they choose not to research the early one from the 80s featued in aeck's meme. Maybe that one given it's age and definitely no longer in service could have had better chances of not being restricted and it actually belonged to the cold war period.
To your question: What drives me to buy a module is my familiarity with it, did I see it fly in my life time, iconic, combat, offensive load out, what was it's primary mission? A few cold war era planes I would like to see eventually are the British Buccaneer, American F-111 Aardvark, German/British Tornado. These are modules I would like to buy and fly - I don't see any fast bombers yet, we have F-15's, F-16's, and the like that are fighters first, and mud movers second. The aforementioned additions would require more coordination for escort to and from a target and bring heavier payloads in the dynamic campaign to move the front lines. Lastly, I'm neutral to the addition of the J-811 -- it doesn't excite me to rush to buy as the F-4 Phantom II does -- and I agree with the point of adding another OPFOR jet in the game because we need that for balance. Thank you for the question and opportunity to answer.
I watch quite a bit of DCS stuff, but I haven't really made the jump into playing it(I bought the F-5E but my pc couldn't really handle it). While the earlier J8s would be far more interesting to me, the PP isn't exactly a deal breaker either. Hopefully one day we can see a I or II, but if it is true that the PP is the only thing that could be made the debate is kinda pointless in my opinion. I'd rather see the PP than not see any J8. The PP being a one off what if kind of plane does make me hopeful that perhaps something like the F-20 Tigershark could be added one day. I'd order that module even if I haven't upgraded my pc yet.
Chinese player here. I was really excited when I heard rumours that Deka was going to make the JH-7 which, as it turned out, didn't happen. And when they announced the J-8PP I was both surprised and disappointed. I mean, while getting a J-8 is definitely good news, the JH-8 would have at least been a Chinese jet with fully domestic avionics - something we'll now have to wait for years again, sadly.
See, I don’t think it’s truly a big issue. For the players who want more focus on realism, they can simply not include the module in their missions or servers. And those who want to use it can go right ahead. I think a “best of both world” solution for both parties would be including a “real” version of the J-8 as an AI only model alongside the “fake” PP model so people can fly against it in missions without worry about being ahistorical would be nice.
Personally, I'd love to have something similar to flaming cliffs 3, for some of us who can't afford a joystick and some of the 80 dollar jets. FC3 was perfect and gave us realistic, yet simple jets that we can enjoy flying with just a simple controller and remembering a few binds.
All great points! Great job! Personally I'm sucker for history with popularity. Meaning I'm looking forward to the F-4 Phantom II because of all the ground breaking history it made. (Also its a really cool looking jet) lol. I have never heard of the J-8II so not on my priority list to get.
I pick the modules that fit into the other available modules. For example I recently picked up the L39 and Kola map. Why because the L39 was used by Russia so whilst I can’t find any info of training squadrons using it in this area, it’s not unrealistic. Second the L39 was used by countries in the other maps. Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan. So if I decided to buy them, the L39 already fits into that picture. I would love to buy one of the F86 or mig-15 variants but the key conflict area for these two, namely Korea doesn’t exist in DCS. Similar for Vietnam. I think this is where IL2 has the edge. they make the maps and the aircraft to fit in with the missions/campaigns. I’m very excited for IL2:Korea for this reason. My initial intro to DCS was the P51 and then I went on to get the Spitfire as the channel and Normandy maps plus campaigns already existed. Next it was the F5 and NTTR map. Aggressor squadrons etc. This is my trend, find an aircraft I like and figure out how it fits in to everything else. I’d love to see an A6 in DCS but it would only be considered if we had a Vietnam map as well. Luckily we have the freeware A4 right now. For these reasons the J8 is of zero interest to me at all.
Dekka make true quality modules. If they made two prototypes then yes it worked and flew. Dekka is the only 3rd party dev making red for fixed wing aircraft. will be an instant buy for me. It's a super mig21 with legs.
A crazy unique and interesting jet that has always interested me. The east/west mix is really cool, but largely excludes it from DC's gameplay "niches". too low flight performance to mix with the 4th gens (Mabey in fox1s only situations it could be competitive), too advanced for mid cold war. Not many other Chinese planes can realistically get modeled in DCS so I am happy to have it.
I think when people ask to combine multiple different time or different countries functions in aircraft like F15E, EF-2000 or others,It is ridiculous to deny a specific model of aircraft that actually exists
I'm not even a DCS player I just love chinese aircraft, but allow me to give a brief defense on why the J8II is a plane that deserves some love. It's original variant, the J8, isn't a paper plane. The base model had over 400 constructed, the peace pearl changed avionics, and ejection seats, and while engine upgrades were rumored they were never confirmed. For the most part, the peace pearl is hardly a unicorn, and as far as paper planes go it's not one that's difficult to model accurately: It's a J8C with American avionics. The J8 itself is a Frankenstein plane, but also one of the most ingenious I've ever seen. It is a MiG-21 taken to it's furthest. Based on the Chinese copy, the J7, it uses two of the engines the J7 used giving it an excellent TWR, and great top speed. While it isn't as maneuverable as other J7 models due to them opting to keep the single delta wing setup, it's still a competent capable of BVR combat despite it's nature as essentially a poor mans third generation fighter. It's not the most advanced fighter in the game, but at the same time it's capable of surprisingly much considering it's design origins, and it's a very unique plane.
I like it and if there is communality between the airframes, I can learn it faster. Also, on the unicorn front I am for it bring on the F-20 Tigershark please and thank you.
Furthermore I am a DCS player from shanghai, of course it is kinda illegal but I do feel good that there's more attention diverted on our nation's aircrafts.
What I genuinely want is a modern Flanker with MFDs and R-77 1s. So we can have a genuine Russia v US throwdown. But of course we can’t get any info on the Russian jets. Next priority would be the Foxbat. I want a Foxbat. I neeeeeeed a Foxbat.
im honestly most interested/hyped for the Eurofighter (personal bias), but i think that depending on how well made, ill definetly give the J-8II a try!
i feel like this could be good as a way for f18 / f16 and now f15e players to get into cold war, chinese and redfor planes all at the same time the jet can act as a bridge
I really don't care who makes a module as long as it's redfor, full-fidelity and something that I like. For example the MiG-23 (I hope RAZBAM releases that soon)
How can this be full fidelity when a lot about its avionics performance and limitations was probably never discovered since it was cancelled while still being developed?
First off, kudos on opening up the discussion. I'm not chinese and can't speak to that. I split my time between 2 ways of playing DCS: #1: airshow demonstration flying #2: MP PvPvE servers, mostly ECW but also GF and less often TBF. From the #1 perspective, this module has little impact other than as a curiosity to me. From the #2 perspective, it has more impact, but since I mostly fly BluFor it matters as a possible opposing aircraft, and I'm struggling to see where this module fits. It's cool to have another module out there, but who flies it and in what contexts? Given that we'd be getting the MFD-laden Variant, I suppose this would mean a TBF-type scenario? Bottom line: I guess I'm ambivalent. Absolutely make it, the more full-fi modules the better, but I'm inclined to think it will have a minimal impact on the DCS landscape as a whole. I won't likely buy it and I get the RedFor concerns about allocation of resources for particular modules and not others, but overall I don't see this having that big an impact on DCS as a whole.
Chinese DCS players want J-10 than aging and unicorn J-8II Peace Pearl (cancelled in 1990 , 2 prototypes left in USA ). DCS is a realistic combat simulation not aircraft collector hobby game . Same type of high speed high allitude interceptor like SU-15 is a much better alternative , Su15 did shoot down Korean 747 airliner on Sept 1st 1983 .
tbh i dont have a huge problem with them adding some ''unicorn'' aircraft, as long as it was a pretty much functional thing and theres good documentation on it (and if its not completely ridiculous), i think its fine. for example id love to see the f20 tigershark in DCS
Wow! ED told me wouldnt get the F-20 Tigershark because it didnt go into production and they wanted to stick to known aircraft that had a service life. The J8 to my understanding was just a prototype. To be fair the Red countries have basically banned any help for DCS and nearly all of them come from other countries that bought them like Cuba and Vietnam and such. This makes making any Russian/Chinese Aircraft a nightmare.
This isn't a module I look forward to right now. But that doesnt mean that my mind wont change once this hits the servers and I see how other players are using it. I had no interest in the M2000 until I watched some of Bullet4MyEnemy's videos on it, and had to face it in Tempest's server. Now it's one of my favorite modules for both air and ground attack, even in modern Fox 3 servers. If a module is released that is very versatile, and fun to use, and is available in their favorite servers, people will flock to it.
Quality of the flight model and multirole ability usually governs my purchases, some of the maps we see are a little bizarre but I have bought into them to support the companies making the more "out there" content, in the hope one day they go on to make content I really want, same goes for some of the aircraft I bought tbh.
I love cold war stuff, mostly 70s and 80s. A6 and A7 are on my to buy list. I would love to see like more Vietnam-era jets in the game. I don't particularly care that much for the modern Hornets and Fighting Falcons. Tomcats and Viggens are more my thing.
I don’t really follow what’s going on in the DCS community, so I’m surprised (but also not that surprised) to hear people are upset with this module being announced. I saw it and thought it was very cool- it will definitely be on my purchase list. I think, like others have said, it’ll fit nicely in that Gen 3+ - early Gen 4 area. Better than a MiG-21 and worse than a JF-17. As far as the “unicorn jet” thing goes, I get it, but I don’t feel it matters TOO much. People (myself included) have long craved an F-20 Tigershark, of which there was also only 2 prototypes built. DCS shouldn’t be like WarThunder, but players also shouldn’t be afraid of something weird every now and then. Keep up the good work Deka and Enigma. PS… I also think the PC-9 is cool and will (hopefully) add a modern ground attack capability to the game we only have with warbirds right now. I’ll buy it too.
I buy a module if I have a personal interest in it. I typically have personal interest in the aircraft/terrain if I have admired the aircraft or aircraft that operated in the region of the terrain. One angle of my admiration of the aircraft is from personal taste acquired via exposure when I was a kid, these are mostly Mirage types and Impalas, this means I will buy any Mirage family member and Aermacchi. I still hope for a MB-326KC from IFE one day, Dino made one and also the 326M for P3D some time ago. Because the PC-9 is close to the PC-7 Mk II I will probably buy it day 1 as my country operates the PC-7 MkII. Another angle is the history of the aircraft/terrain. I am very excited for Sinai (even if it is desert I don't care) because of the historical conflicts and therefore I am also excited for the Kfir and I have previously bought the MiG-21 and MiG-19. The history in that region is of interest to me because I played Janes IAF as a kid (still do) and the Kfir is close to the Mirage and Cheetah aircraft which was operated by my country. I also have a bias towards older more analog feel so I tend to lean towards those type of modules more. On the note of unasked for modules. I don't mind them. I can understand the developer. I don't believe they build it because they saw it as a way to make money. They probably just want to build it, there are much easier ways to make money if that was your goal. I for example would not mind spending time effort and money on building a Hawk Mk120 which I know "yet another trainer", well so what don't buy it. The reason I would choose that is because 1) personal interest, 2) resource accessibility, 3) a handful of not insignificant people want to use it. I can name another example: Cheetah, "there is already a Kfir and the Cheetah is not as good as the Kfir", I know, but again 1) personal interest, 2) resource accessibility. It would be impossible or very labour intensive for me to try and make an F-15 for example because it would be difficult for me to get access to resources where the ones I have mentioned are much easier. I can also think of two other "desert" maps I want, make that 3, I'm not in love with the desert but history and personal interest in the regions makes me want it. This is a very interesting topic, thanks for the video.
I'm personally interested in J-8 since it's more of a late cold war interceptor with BVR capabilities, I don't think (as of today) there is anything what would move me away from the module, I picked F-16C when it was in 'acceptable' but possibly I would prefer more F-16A with retrofits to BVR no higher. I dropped Mi-24 because it was P model, I was far more interested with V model because it is more spread around the world and it have more possibilities, since it is V you can always use excuse of Polish 24W (Poland does not have V in alphabet) as an excuse to offer weaponry from earlier models as Poland did made downgrade to Fleyta or Falanga missiles and S5 rockets bringing more possibilities for a single module. The V model also opens a possibility for upgrade to VP with minor adjustments to existing model giving you 2 cakes for a little more work than 1.
I was not happy with the Hind version that was selected but after playing it, I have to say it is probably one of the best modules in the game, def the best helo.
I got into DCS as an aviation history buff, watching re-enactment videos from creators like Growling Sidewinder and the Grim Reapers. My module selection is based on the eras and conflict theatres that interest me (Cold War>>>World War Two>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Modern), and with a very strong bias in favor of planes that have real-world combat records to study and learn from. With limited time to spend on the hobby, I have to pass on any module or map that doesn't have a place in that niche. I doubt I'll get the J-8IIPP for those reasons. I'm 100% in agreement with you that Cold War is the future for DCS (with WW2 a secondary focus) and I'd love to see ED focus on fleshing out that era as much as humanly possible, rather than their current scattershot approach. Judging from most SP Hornet/Viper/Apache content, most DCS Modern players prefer simply blowing up hordes of obsolete Soviet-era AI assets anyways, so something like a Cold War Asset Pack would be a win/win for both the Cold War and Modern players. Let the 3rd Party module makers focus on FF modules while ED delivers core improvements and add-ons. 'Airbase' - modelling the Supercarrier functionality - seems like a total no-brainer!
8:30 And I think that's the real success of DCS. Rather than the stand-alone study sims we saw in the late 90's early 2000's, it is a system of study sims that can all play together in one more or less unified whole.
if i think its a cool plane. and i have extra cash on hand. mig21 is a bit of a pooch on MP servers like growling sidewinder but it looks so cool. is fun to fly and i think the vodka powered radar and is the coolest. i really want a mid 25 or su17 though
It's a freaking cool plane who cares about unicorn look at the ka50.......... will buy. I also must add, for every module released it only brings more players and leads to the purchase of other modules. Everyone including competitors profit sooner or later off the release of a new module. You learn it, love it then want that crackhead fix of learning another plane
Greetings and thanks for your video!
I am a Chinese DCS player from Shanghai, China. While I cannot possibly state that I can represent the Chinese DCS player community, I would like to have my two cents here about the J-8PP. It will be lengthy, but I hope you guys find it interesting.
Firstly, I believe from a Chinese player’s view every J-8 variant, be it J-8I or J-8II, or the PP variant, is a genuine, iconic Chinese product. No matter how the onboard avionics vary, J-8 is the first fighter jet independently designed, and domestically produced in China. Its historical value will remain no matter how the aircraft is modified. Through the development timespan of over 40 years, Chinese military aviation industry learnt how to independently design and develop a super-sonic, high-altitude interceptor, and later how to design and produce digital onboard avionics and electronics to fulfil the requirement of modern air combat. All of these lessons and doctrines are learnt mainly through developing and modifying the J-8 and J-8II air frames. It’s safe to say J-8 has witnessed the mutualization of Chinese fighter development, and the type has a special place in almost every Chinese aviation enthusiast. I would personally consider the idea that ‘a J-8II with Grumman avionics is not a genuine J-8II’ far-fetching therefore.
Second, as a Chinese player I personally consider the J-8PP as a good representation of a Chinese fighter jet. To be specific, it is indeed a very good representation of a unique time period of Chinese fighter development. Ex-Chinese President Deng Xiaoping has a famous statement: “when crossing a river, cross slowly to feel every rock with your feet” (“摸着石头过河”). It generally means when you are not clear about some fields of technology, find yourself a good reference as guidance, get yourself adapted, until you can find your own way of mastering the technology. This was, and still is, the way that Chinese industry learns to produce something the industry has no experience of. As one of the comments on the ED forums goes, the Chinese aviation industry is iterative, taking careful steps, not really caring that there are trolls screaming “copy and paste”, and just progressing carefully, which proves to be the right way until they can afford taking more gambles and tech jumps later. In this regard, J-8PP is the perfect piece of historical relic that literally shows everyone how the Chinese has started get to know the modern digitalized avionic systems designed for better situational awareness and data management. J-8PP is a unicorn indeed, but it is also a unique snapshot in Chinese fighter development, showing everyone how the Chinese were trying to find their way across the river.
Third, Chinese aviation history value aside, J-8PP can provide players with a fairly unique flight and combat experience. J-8 was born in the era of high-altitude, high-speed interceptors, when air-to-air missile technology was still in its infancy and one needed to rely more on the performance capability of the aircraft to complete those missions. The J-8 thus has superb performance regarding its speed, climb, and handling qualities. Many 3rd or 4th gen fighters have designs that emphasize more on multi-purposes capability, and missiles those aircraft carry tend to do more jobs that the aircraft itself. With US radar and fire control system the J-8PP becomes a platform that sits nicely between the 3rd gen and 4th gen aircraft. It has limited modern situational awareness, and can conduct air-to-air missions without relying totally on GCI. J-8PP's offensive capability, however, is still restricted by its limited variants of weapon payload. I can therefore imagine that the pilot is still expected to make the best use of the performance capability to explore its combat potential. J-8PP is a heavy interceptor modified with a modern radar. I would say its combat experience will be nowhere near F-16, which is a light-weight multi-role fighter with good situational awareness, modern electronics and diverse weapon systems. Its combat experience will also be different from 3nd gen fighters like MiG-21 or MiG-23, for which GCI guidance is essential and the capability for multi-tasking is close to none. It’s like a Chinese version of F-14. You have some electronic and digital systems in there, but you can still feel the thrust and the air stream through steel controlling cables.
Thank you for sharing your perspective as a Chinese player and making it so thorough. The "摸着石头过河" is quite interesting and something I did not think about when anticipating Chinese feedback. This actually makes a lot of sense why Chinese players would be accepting of the J-8II PP.
You need to over-throw your corrupt Commie Govt instead of playing games.
What a fantastic writeup, thanks for sharing this perspective !
Thanks for this insight Jeremy! In my eyes, the huge disparity between redfor and blufor makes me excited for ANY redfor plane.
@@Enigma89 Thanks for your attention! 👍 I guess most, if not all, of the Chinese players will naturally consider J-8PP as an integral part of history in J-8 aircraft development. Therefore the PP will probably have close to equal status in our minds as F, B, D or other domestic variants. It is a crucial 'step' that cannot be forgotten.
If you have a closer look at the principles and guidelines that Chinese aviation industry follows, you would not be surprised that a lot of technologies were introduced into China via import, or license-built foreign equipment, and later evolving into something different, and J-8PP is exactly such a introduction point. It's a unique stage to model, and also bypasses legal issues. Plus the US-made equipment will not change the operational doctrine, or the way that J-8II operates. The later Chinese domestic system serves the same purposes anyway.
Since RedFor is seriously lagging behind I'm happy to have and buy almost any new full fidelity addition. Being it RazBam's 23 or Deka's J-8II. At this stage, the only asset we have is the JF as a modern full fidelity opponent for BluFor... I'd definitely buy the J-8II, given the track record of Deka with maintaining the JF. Edited for typos.
If nothing else, I feel like the J-8II is gonna be an extremely interesting plane.
Its not representative of the most used chassis, nor of chinese avonics; but then again, the J8' seems to be in many ways based on foreign technology anyway? Even if eg the J-10 radar is a chinese development, it followed western design standards and integration. In many was China directly relied on soviet and western tech, which is llkely why the Peace Pearl was even considered and greenlit in the first place. It was actually China that cancelled the program, not the US. And the J-8 upgrades didnt stop, but rather went to use parts eg from Israel.
The Peace Pearl has the design heritage of a soviet interceptor, heavily developed into a chinese plane, upgraded with western avionics. How is that not an amazing thing to have? In some ways, the Peace Pearl seems to be like a long lasting, ultimative tailend of the Mig-21s evolution. Maybe it can be accused of being a unicorn or "paper" plane, but its both a realistic proposition, was apparently quite advanced and based on existing tech.
Its the exception to the rule, and about as legit as an aircraft that only existed as prototype can be. Its not like World of Warships Soviet battleships fleet (ew) or War Thunders Panther 2 (lol).
"Razbam's 23" That aged like milk
@@Monarch_GNSG I feel with you ... at that stage it was a promising aircraft addition ... I still hope this madness will be resolved to benefit both parties
I’m not going to lie, I don’t care how esoteric it is, I’m just happy to have more redfor full fidelity modules.
Same here, high-fidelity Red jets are nearly non-existent, and as much as I'd prefer something less modern I'll gladly take this over another expensive post-2000 US fighter that flies itself and cannot have a peer opponent in this game because of OPSEC.
Even it if never was in service?
@@LeoH3L1 even if it never was in service. That’s just me though, flying flight sims was never about the precise realism or recreating a specific fight, conflict or mission. I enjoy the experience of it, the fight that I’m in at that time, the mission that my squadron briefed, tailored to the strengths of that given aircraft. Also understanding the aircraft that I get to fly is a big joy to me. The only ‘realism’ requirements I have for an aircraft is that it carries real weapons and that a version of it existed and flew(I.e. the other versions of the J8)
@@LeoH3L1 Same thing could be said about Ka-50. Inb4 Chechnya, it wasn't the same version we have in DCS, the only screen in cockpit was the one used by Shkval
Right there with you bro
No one asked for the JF17 Thunder either but it turned out to be I think the most complete module at time of release (no early access). Since most Redfor jets we ask for are pretty much locked down by government regulations etc we should be happy with what we get.
It's a fair point. The only thing I wonder about is if the level of fidelity is too high because it locks us out from some areas.
@@Enigma89 "Jet is too high fidelity!!!" -Some warthunder player probably....
@@Enigma89 No, it's not. Other games are available that cater to the market with lower fidelity modeling. We have a choice between these products, and do not need every single product on the market, to cater for everyone's need.
@@Enigma89 I wouldnt say no to a Flaming Cliffs 4, if thats what you mean. As much as I rarely fly it, FC3 seems like such a valuable addition to DCS. It shows that a "semi-realistic" aircraft line-up can exist in a minor role, besides the ultra high quality aircraft fleet.
But I also feel its useful to have the seperation. With FC3 you know what you get, and with full detail DCS module you also know what you get. Thats what really makes it work imo.
@@braeddie Hi, can you point me towards what games cater to the market of Low-Fidelity combat flight sim? while i enjoy the DCS so far, sometimes i want something simpler, Warthunder is a grind fest and i'm to old to dedicate that much time to reach the planes i like. Arcades are also not my thing. Strike Fighters used to scratch the itch, but i hope something will take it's place.
I'm a Chinese, when ed released the news on Bilibili(Chinese version of UA-cam), most of comments are happy. I'm sure everyone knows J8II pp is the most possible and latest red Chinese jet to be in The DCS world. And Peace pearl project did helped later J8II.
It's a bit like when you don't have UA-cam, Bilibili is good enough, and might even be better in some areas.
Thanks for sharing your perspective from the Chinese side!
Screw China
I want the MiG-23 module so bad. I know 2 pilots in IRL that flew MF/ML variants both agree it was a beast plane. One of them acutaly was the first pilot in our airforce who flew this aircraft in 1978, he had total of around 800 hrs on Flogger.
The great thing is both the J-8 and Flogger are being developed by separate teams, so the development of one doesn't affect the other.
Plan on waiting at LEAST another 5 years. Razbam only has 2 coders and at one point they were working on the Mirage, Farmer, Flogger, Harrier, and MudHen all at the same time. Since the MudHen just released it’s going to be the focus for the next year or two. The MiG-23 is a long way away.
same here brother.
As the RAZBAM issue may prevent their MIG-23 ever being released, do you know of any devs who could liaise with your air force buddies to bring the MIG-23 to DCS??
I'll buy it because :
1 - I love interceptors
2 - I like to learn corky planes
3 - As you said it's probably the only way to have J8
4 - Deka does a great job of giving us capable aircraft (not like the empty shells that you need 3 years of wait to use them (hello F16)) and more diversity (I don't know Chinese planes and they make me discover some)
5 - More planes on DCS means more possibilities means more satisfaction for more people means more players means more budget means more niche aircraft means more possibilities...
Thanks for your work around DCS and have a nice day
Chinese here. According to my observation, most Chinese players don't care (or particularly care) about which specific variant will be made. For us, it is a J8 is enough. Yes, we also want the J8F or the more advanced J10, but we also know how little hope it is. The J8PP's entry into DCS has already enough made us cheer. For most Chinese players, the DCS: J8II is a must-buy, and I am sure that when J8PP is released, J8 in most Chinese servers will be allowed to carry PL12 to emulate more advanced J8 variants, just like J11A in many servers can carry PL12 now.
Thanks for sharing a POV from China
It is a shame its a unicorn plane. But, if the dev has problem getting documentation on a fully Chinese plane then I don't see it as an issue. If its the only way to get a Chinese plane into the game with as much realism as possible then that's fine by me. In the end, I am just happy to see more content added to DCS, and even more happy to see cold war modules.
i just worry about its performance and the documentation to back it up. on MP servers this could be an issue.
Well, one can always hope that some point an operations and maintenance manual for a Chinese jet will get leaked on the WarThunder forums. 😂
Chinese player here, my personal point of interest regarding the J-8 is more about its flight characteristic. This jet used to be nicknamed 'the double 2', which goes mach 2 at 20000 meters, so that even if its avionics will have nothing new to offer (I'm pretty sure it is not the case tho), its airframe certianly will.
And then there is this vague hope that it will one day get upgraded to the J-8F variant. All J-8 in active Chinese service are probably going to get retired in a couple of years, and give it a few more years for the documents to declassify, we may eventually get something fox3 and datalink capable based on the same platform. Imagine an interceptor with avionics comparable to the Jeff going mach 2 at 20000 meters throwing PL-12(SD-10), this thing is going to be a beast even in the face of more modern fighters such as the strike eagle and typhoon.
In fact in the Chinese community we've been keep joking with Deka members with 'D, I want this' while sending pics of J-10/J-16/J-20, or 'go ahead and make the J-20, we'll be in charge of delivering fine food to you during jail visit'. But then jokes aside we all understand that this is the best Deka can do as of this time. Better than nothing and full of potential.
Thank you for sharing your perspective from China
Any full fidelity plane in DCS will always be awesome. You can fly a piece of history
01:42 lol
But to be honest I probably buy the peace pearl if not only to support the devs. I can't see how we can get an authentic Chinese jet because of the documentation issue.
And oh... plz gib F-16A!
It actually amazed me how ungrateful people where, when this was announced. We're getting a full fidelity gen 3½ Redfor jet! Something WE NEED!
I'd way rather want this than a Mig-19 with a nose cone and bombs...
I don't like Chinese jets at all! I have no interest whatsoever. Had it been a domestic variant, then i wouldn't even considered buying it. But the J8PP is Soviet enough for me to be interested, mixed with avionics from the F-16 which is one of my favorites. This not only gives Redfor more capabilities, it also allows me to somewhat roleplay as an F-16A while flying as RED. So I'm 100% gonna buy it.
Its a unicorn? So what, not like that's gonna ruin peoples realism. DCS Matchmaking has been F/A-18s and F-15s vs F-16s and F-14s for years now anyways! Ruining MY "realism".
Great video. What I like about DCS full fidelity modules is learning about some of the systems within and being blown away like “wow somebody designed this to work this way” and you get to use historical aircraft in virtual combat to get a glimpse of how things may have came together in battle. With unicorn aircraft that wow somebody made this factor is gone cus quite literally no one can tell if 2 were actually made and flew or how along they got in the prototype stage before stopping.
Variants matter and beyond the J-8 I hope future module makers aren’t dissuaded from building other early model versions of jets. I’d love a F-15A or F-16A, even early model Hornets. That late 70s era going into the 80s where jets were getting incredible performance but the PGM stuff and display stuff in the cockpit wasn’t like a space ship just yet is wonderful.
I can’t wrap my head around the MFD hate. I fly the MiG-21, Mi-8, and F-18 and I wish the MiG-21 had something to make it just a little bit more viable outside the mid Cold War setting.
I’d love to see the Indian Bison modification make it in one day. Or for that matter the in between Lancer -
Hi Enigma, I'm a Chinese DCS player as well.
In addition to Jeremy's comment, I want to add some more information.
Does the Chinese DCS community love the implementation of J8PP? Yes, we do. Do we think it's the best J8 variant to make? No, we don't. We prefer J8D (head-on fox 2 and fox 1 capable) or J8F (fox1, fox2, and fox3 capable, glass cockpit, HMD, link 16 equivalent DL) which are 100% Chinese, but we DO know that J8D/F is not possible to make due to classified materials and J8PP is the only variant that DIS can gather enough sources to model a DCS quality module.
About the J8PP aircrafts themself. Two J8II and a full-size nose model were made and sent to the US. Both aircrafts pass flight tests before being sent to the US. The US studied the design and made modifications to both aircrafts. The backs are raised to fit 1553 bus, adding lightning protection stripes to the radome, and adding extra small air intakes to cool the added avionics..... Bush Authority refuse to return any J8PP after the end of the collaboration but eventually agree to return the two built J8PP aircrafts and leave the nose model in America. Both J8PP has later been through thorough investigation including testing the EM compatibility and they pass. The PLA airforce then decides to stop developing along the American electronics due to lack of more Western technology support and potential back door built in those American avionics. But Chinese engineers learned a lot of new concepts during the PP program and shape the design ideology for modern Chinese military aircrafts. Both J8PP are well preserved until the day we speak now and are on display in Museums. 4:45 is actually a genuine J8PP aircraft on display.
Some more interesting information regarding DIS and J8PP. I heard rumors that DIS was thinking about making a Su30mkk, J8 or Q5 module. PLAAF refuse the request of information about the Su30 MKK, and DIS thinks J8 will have better sells over Q5. So maybe one day in the future we will get a Q5 attacker, which is 100% made by Chinese aircraft, or maybe even J10CE, just like JF17, who know?
Thanks for sharing your POV from China. I personally was hoping for a Q-5 and I also heard the rumor about the Su-30MKK.
@@Enigma89 Same here about the Q5. Also maybe a bit off-topic, really enjoyed your server, and thank you for all the efforts you and your team put into it.
@@aidenchen1275 Thank you
While this aircraft doesn't interest me tremendously personally, I do think it's a cool plane and the mix of eastern and western functionality is a really neat idea. I have a few friends who like Eastern aircraft but really struggle with the avionics and systems. They're quite excited for this one as a sort of halfway in between.
I'm pretty new to DCS and I've only played on ECW. Personally I will probably buy any plane or map that is featured on the server. If a map like South Atlantic or Top End Australia comes to ECW I'll buy it. If unicorn planes like the Peace Pearl come to the server I'll probably buy it.
From a story perspective I already view the server as alternate history Cold War, since the fights we depict didn't actually happen in real life. It doesn't break my immersion to have non-historic things on the server as long as they feel believable for the time period.
i’m excited for this, i’m definitely someone who thinks the peace pearl is much preferable to having no j-8 at all. and it’s not like deka is doing something out of the ordinary with this basically un produced plane given how long the ka-50 as we know it has been around.
i also think there’s a lot of value in dcs or other flight sims as virtual museums, and bringing a rarer aircraft to dcs in full fidelity certainly falls under this for me
ED在将高级航电带入他们产品之中时，是从su-25t开始的。而FF级别的模组，是从黑鲨开始的。这俩实际上，都只是实验性质而不是广泛服役的，ED也是在这样的一种情况下才得以发展出我们今天看到的DCS。
The DCS community some times forgot how DCS made this far. When ED was trying to introduce better avionic simulation and PFM back in the day, they did it with Su-25t. After that, the first DCS product, the very fist stand-alone full fidility module, was the Ka-50. These two are by no means widely used or entered mass production, and that is the reason ED could be lisensed get their hands on them. Frankly, the DCS we have today starts with Frankenstein, and the new Black Shark 3 is obviously a hybrid. ED did what they could, and so did Deka. Nither should be criticized, since they are just trying to bring us all they have to offer.
I really love to support module makers I like. Deka did a great job with jf17. And I will probably buy their j8 just to support them. Even if I’m most likely won’t fly it at all (aside from few demo session. Or on tempest server)
I do wonder how many people are like you and buy everything just to support the game or a module maker in general. Would you do the same if it was a new/unknown module maker? Is it the fact that it is Deka pushing you over the edge to buy it?
@@Enigma89 if that would be redfor - yes. Id buy it from any maker. For blue for - I guess depends if I really like it or not (eg I definitely going to buy chinook; and I’m not really interested in f4 at all)
So is it confirmed that this module will not be included in Enigma's cold war server? thx
We will decide when we get more information on the module. I could be dead by the time it comes out
@@Enigma89 lol. I heard it still have a lot work to be done and definitely haven't reached the final stages yet. Thanks for the clarification. Would love to see the J-8pp on your cold war server if possible.
So I'm in a unique perspective, the MiG-21Bis was my main module, until I got the JF-17, I also started flying the Su-33 (and other FC3 modules) lately and am exclusively a Redfor pilot. I LOVE the J-8 and actually requested the J-8E specifically, I remember being excited as all hell for the J-8 to get announced, then saw it was the J-8II, still excited, than I realized what the variant is, and I kinda lost all interest, but I thought about, realized this was going to be the only way, and at the end of the day its still a J-8. We technically already have strange/unrealistic modules but there are some machines that aren't service vehicles that I would love to see built up to sim level detail. I'm also hoping we potentially get other variants down the road. I'm going to get the J-8.
And to answer your question, what makes me decide I'm getting the module is purely on the aircraft, if I got a passion for the aircraft I can fly whatever, I hated the mirage 2k as my first module and uninstalled it, got the MiG-21Bis right after it and loved it to death! The JF-17 (being the closest successor to the MiG-21) I love it just as much!
IMO, I think bringing in the J-8 is pretty cool. Regardless that it's a Unicorn. IIRC, The SU-25T is a Unicorn as well and that's something everyone starts off with and I also still fly quite often. Mainly as there is no other good option for modern-ish REDFOR A-G aircraft in the core game(Please make a MIG-27!)
Me personally, If the J-8 does come to fruition, I'll be picking it up. I really enjoy the late 70's to early 90's aircraft. The Mirage F1 is probably my favorite CW fixed wing to fly with the majority of time in the CE variant. And truth be told, it's actually made me better in the more modern aircraft like the Hornet, Warthog, Viper and the Flanker variants.
Personal Opinion though, I would love to see some more weapons added to the Flankers as well as some general updates to them too. Such as adding a J-15 variant to list with some variant of the R-77-M or R-77-1. By adding a 2-seater aircraft to the FC package, that would effectively round out the "Starters" aircraft package of Flaming Cliffs and it'd still be Carrier capable.
My quite boring take on this is that I don't really care, the module doesn't interest me or pique my interest but I don't hate it either. Unicorn planes and hybrid/frankenplanes don't interest me much but I'm not against it being in DCS as long as it's competently modelled. It's better that's it's available for people that do want it and then mission makers and purists can remove it if they really don't like it.
I don't feel strongly about the Peace Pearl. I'm probably not going to buy the J-8 regardless of which variant it is. I'm happy for people who are happy about it tho. Those upset about it could probably chill a bit.
Curious why no purchase of J-8 regardless of module? I am assuming the fact that Deka is making it has no impact on your behaviour?
It's just not a plane I have any interest in learning and flying. I already own the mig21 and I don't fly it. I tend to prefer western aircraft.
I dont care how low production or rare a plane was. I like buying planes that are unique and this J8 fits that. Also more Redfor planes always good. I want my mig 23 already lol
Not a developer for the Northern Australia map, but as an ex-RAAF member posted to Top End, I can assure you there is a strong defence presence here - in the same way Nevada has a map, it's one of the Southern Hemisphere's largest air weapons ranges (Delemere range). Annually a large contingent of Aus, US and other allied and neutral countries visit and bomb the hell out of the remote Aussie outback while testing each others skills. Google Ex Pitch Black, which is like our Red Flag.
Not saying it's going to be a big seller, but if Nevada justifies a map then this is no different.
I mean, the first module was the Ka-50. Yes it was not quite a unicorn but it was a limited production and the Ka-50 III version of the module to my knowledge IS a unicorn (or even fictitious), not to mention only 12 Su-25Ts were built and it is the starter plane. I have no problems with it. That opens up some unique possibilities. The only 5th Gen we can potentially hope for is MAYBE (and still a long shot) a YF-23, only two prototypes were ever built. The most modern Russian jets we could hope for are the prototypes of the Su-47 and Su-37 (and in the case of the Su-37 it no longer even exists due to a structural failure and therefore a DEAD unicorn). Perhaps Bandai Namco could be brave and enter the third party developer sphere with aircraft IP they fully own from Ace Combat (the less outlandish ones anyways). Finally we could have aircraft that are fifth gen + that require no national security issues to be resolved, such as the XFA-27. This is honestly a more likely entry of fifth generation airframes into DCS than even the YF-23.
Great analysis. My perspective:
1. I am not Chinese, but I think there is great marketing value in adding Chinese planes. This enhances interest in DCS, broadens the market.
2. This plane adds to the momentum, competition, and universe of modules.
3. My drivers to buy - 1) Do I just like the plane? 2) Does it teach me something new? 3) Does it have interesting history?
An example of this, is while the A-10 (all variants) and F/A-18 are my core favorites, I also purchased the AJS-37 (because I think road take-offs are cool, even if I find the lack of internal cannon annoying), the Gazelle (never had a copter before, but I love it), and the MiG-21 (I am horrible at flying it, but love learning how to do it better).
The point is, DCS offers not only game play, but learning. This is what keeps it intellectually alive for older players like myself. I might suck at flying or battling others, but learning something new is always enticing.
Instead of pontificating this week, I thought I would lay out what I read in community and surface all the arguments that were for and against the module. I have to say in my time in DCS, this announcement was one of the most heated things I have seen. I look forward to reading your thoughts.
I've lost all hope at this point.
It's the same thing with MSFS or X-plane, we get 5000 modern airliners but it seems we cannot have ONE good DC-3 or some classic 1950s airliner done right💀
It's the same thing with DCS, it's flooded with useless stuff, the stuff that counts is dying a slow death or straight up fails meanwhile everybody is excited to buy the F-15E, yet another MFD simulator.
!hexmap
@@mro9466Umm, what? F-4E inbound in the near future. A-7E in the works. A proper F-14A in the works. A recent F1 released. A Mig-23MLA in the works. A released Mi-24P. A Kifer in the works. The F-5E getting updated in the works. The Mig-21bis getting updated in the works. A vary strongly hinted SU-17/22 apparently in the works. I'm sorry but what more do you want?
@@sasquatchycowboy5585 it's one thing to have the module out the door, it's another having support and content for it. Who flies the i-16 ? The Mig-19 ? Hardly any campaign for most of these aircraft, no assets or map that match the period either. DCS player base is 90% focused on F18/F16/Apache and soon F15E.
Imo better to have it with the well documented western avionics, that will work within their realistic performance (which most probably would be quite similar to late chineze ones), then to have a totall guess work ones, as for sure they want be able to get the info on classyfied chineze ones
New Unique Jet: Plus
Jet is not western made: Plus
Uses Western Avionics: Not too pleased but alr
They don't want to go to jail: Understandable have a nice day
Very well done video, especially the point about authenticity of the plane. The J8 PP isn’t an authentic Chinese plane, but it is a redfor plane so it get the job done, until a newer better redfor plane comes out. I do have to correct you for one point though, the reason deka can’t make a more modern plane is not due to documentation issue(there &:enough documentation online(creditable) for them to make a model),but more a security issue, deka posted on Bilibili (Chinese UA-cam equivalent) saying J8 PP is the limit set by the military when they asked for help and permission (that’s how they manage to get into one of the prototypes and took photo for modelling), so unless the military think planes like J11B or J10A is ok for release, J8 PP is what we have to cope with.
I did mention this but maybe it was not done in a clear way. What I meant is that in effect, the documentation doesn't exist because it can't be used due to security issues. Thanks for sharing a perspective from China.
@@Enigma89 A ok, that cleared it up . Oh also I do forget to mention deka also said they are more interested in masking a J10A then a J11B, as the lateral is just a su27 with some Chinese avionics and weaponry, J10 does represent more interns of uniqueness
From my own perspective, this is the *only* REDFOR fast mover I'm interested in actually buying BECAUSE of the commonality with western systems. I have limited time, I'm not learning a completely different system set just to fly a a MiG or Sukhoi. But if I can hop in this thing and be 1/2 way to running it because I'm already standardized on the systems, then I'll bring it into the stable.
So you are just lazy? Its not that hard to learn dude.
@@hansloyalitat9774 I'm an adult with a job, reserve duties, offspring, and other hobbies. My DCS time is limited, and I'm not wasting it on things I'm not interested in learning.
@@hansloyalitat9774 If that is how he wants to play, it is entirely up to him. Some people have busy lives.
Take your toxicity elsewhere.
@@flyingtower Im not being toxic, its not toxic to call someone lazy if they are.
you can learn to fly the low fidelity redfor planes in like 3 hours. Best bit is you learn one and you can pilot the other 3 because they are all the same
I am always excited for more modules. I am more in the camp of "lets have more commonly used aircraft" but a few modules in that "Unicorn" area can be cool too.
I think that the J-8PP will be a great addition to dcs world, not just does it bring forward a new, relativly modern Redfor High-fidelity jet of wich some variants were still being built up until recently, but it brings other unique 'unicorn jets' like the F-20 Tigershark or the F-16XL into the spotlight. I mean, having the F-16XL or the F-20 as a high fidelity module would be really cool, and the J-8PP might be what makes it possible. So for anyone (and by that I mean no one lol) who wanted to know my opinion, I think the J-8PP should be welcomed into DCS and celebrated as a great addition to Team Red.
I would buy this module because it is a J8.. no matter who makes it and no matter the version we get. Me simple... me like J8.
As long as the aircraft itself was produced (other J8 versions which were numerous), i dont really care if this specific version is a unicorn or not.
Great Video!
Agreed, J-8's awesome!
What gets me about this is for years ED have said they wanted to only ever include aircraft that went into service, because they didn't want DCS to become basically a more difficult war thunder, they wanted it to be a serious simulator, or at least something very close to it, this is neither, none of the prototypes where ever finished, and the whole peace pearl program was cancelled, so if they where serious about what they where saying then this has no place as an official module in DCS.
IF it does have a legitimate place then what about all the other aircraft that where cancelled before entering service, will we get a DCS:TSR2, or how about an F107, F108, orF-111K.
There's easily enough information about those that is not classified now that they could be made up to DCS's standards, or at least somewhere between the FC3 aircraft and the "full" fidelity modules.
THAT is the issue I have with this, FOR YEARS, that has been the official line from ED, it was one of the official reasons why something would not be an official module....
I'd be on the fence if it were a random new developer, but this is deka. The jf17 was the prefect module in my eyes, not talking about the plane itself necessarily but the quality of the module ever since it was launched.
I'm expecting deka will put the same level of care into the simulation of the j8II PP, in which case it's a no brainer, especially because I find the plane itself to be very interesting historically.
I'm not a realism freak, even if it was partly fantasy, modules like the ka50III and this one don't bother me, all I care about at the end of the day is having fun even though I still want something grounded in reality.
Thanks for the video, good stuff 👍
i never got the "unicorn" argument, it existed we know what it had, there are no gaps in knowledge, what part of that combo means less accuracy
The single seat version of the KA-50 as represented in BS3 is fully made up, and no one seems to have a big problem with that. It's a theoretical hybrid of the early KA-50 which had extremely low production numbers at best, and the later KA52. At least Peace Pearl actually existed.
Though I'm relatively new to DCS (only having purchased the Mig-21 and FC3). I am considering getting the J-8 even if the choice of the variant is rather wack. This choice isn't exactly based on who's making it (though afaik JF-19 was competently made) but instead the era of the jet itself being another single seat CW jet with only fox-1s for radar guided AAMs (Inb4 this has fox-3s) in which case, currently the modules that meet this category would only be the mig-21 and Mirage f1 in addition to a few upcoming modules.
*edit: some minor grammar
M2000C could also fit your desire I suppose, and Mirage F1 is a good module, worth trying out
Agreed, the F-1 is definitely a cool experience!
@@aidenchen1275 personally, main issue with m2k is that though it may fit in with what i said, it doesn't exactly fit in era wise being a fairly late cw fighter. but aside from it's comparatively lacking missiles i have consistently enjoyed it whenever i trial it, as for F1 i've been wanting to get it just haven't gotten around to it yet though
tldr m2k good but missiles lacking/uncompetitive
I honestly don't care that it has American equipment. I want some REDFOR aircraft that can punch at the level that some of the BLU aircraft can similar to how the JF-17 does.
I think the J-8II might be one of these albeit a bit older, but my love for the MiG-21bis causes me to really look forward to this outrageously over-engined Chinese upgrade that may actually have missiles that can hit a target more than 5 miles out (R-3R anyone?)
"I want some REDFOR aircraft that can punch at the level that some of the BLU aircraft can similar to how the JF-17 does"
J-8 will get at max a semi active PL-11s
@@jetfighter200 Well yeah, the J-8 is a bit older. It's a funny aircraft with funny modern avionics and funny weapons.
I'm confident an insane person like me who likes the Fishbed will love having some better Fox-1s.
I regard Deka quite highly as a third party module maker. The free asset packs is amazing effort which they provide free of cost. I applaud the development of a definitely redfor full fidelity cold war plane, though the unicorn nature throws me off of a purchase of the PP.
Great-great bunch of developers. I agree.
If i have a place to fly it i will probably buy it cause it still a unique plane even if i would have prefered a real chinese version
Seems fair 2 me
Well, we know the MFD excludes it from ECW, unfortunately.
Deka did a great job modeling the Jeff so I’m more than willing to give their modules a try when they come out. Module maker’s track record means more to me than the qualms specific to the jet like low to zero production runs in history
I am very happy for this module!!! I had posted in deka forums when J-17 came out for making it next. Either way it will be a good addition to the sim. It’s the closest we are going to get to something similar to a native J-8 or Su-15 neither of which are close to being viable.
I'd like to see them get the core jets out there 1st so that we can have fully flushed out eras.
Then maybe they can do some unicorn jets. I would really like to try an F20 tigershark for instance.
Absolutely, but I think we need a two seat F-5f or a T-38 Talon even more, the training jet the USAF used for generations.
@@muttleyjones2 with NASA skin :)
As you explained in your mig23 video there is a big gap for redfors, so even if it is not an expected plane for anyone is good to have it
Its not good to have because its useless, you cant use it in any realistic missions since it never existed
@@hansloyalitat9774 Almost like the Black Shark III. Better to have this plane that having no one. I'm sure is going to be plenty useful despite your opinion, if you dont like just don't buy and enjoy playing with others planes that you do
@@pegasus.gaming The blackshark isnt much useful, cant really simulate any realistic conflicts with it.
@@hansloyalitat9774 If you're seeking to simulate any real conflict at DCS with it being where it is right now you're playing the wrong game entirely. You'd be better suited to Strike Fighters 2, BMS or WOFF. DCS is so all over the place that you literally can't even make simple time-fixed scenarios. The only modules that have decent overlap are the ww2 ones (and they're spotty as heck) and the Sabre/MiG-15 (which have almost NO supporting assets, you know, like a KOREA MAP?)
@@hansloyalitat9774 Okey, so you prefer only to simulate real conflicts before simulate real aircrafts systems and behaviours even if the aircraft is "not real" and play in fictional scenarios.That is ok and you can do it even if Deka develop the J8II or not. I recommend to you also to read the chinese players opinions here in comments and to open your mind a bit.
Personally I'm on board with this. It's really is just a neat gen-3 frankenstein of eastern and western tech. The avionics probably interact (or more like don't interact) in a pretty clunky way.
thx for sharing ur thoughts
Thanks for the video. Lots of points, numerous comments. Very nice to see people engaging in meaningful conversations .
As for the model, my opinion is in the end is a business decision of the producer and ED, and less about 'me'. If I like it I will buy it, or not. If I don't my experience in DCS will not alter. Personally I have more than enough modules, double that number in books and mamuals, and still learning to fly them.
For this module in particular if I buy it will be because:
- single seat
- radar that I have experience with (easier to use, less time learning something completely different)
Reasons why I wouldn't buy:
- I had very little interest on this model (excuses to those who admire this plane)
- One more interceptor, I would be more interested in attack planes
Again thanks for the video
Actually, I asked for this. I wanted a slightly better MiG-21 that will be able to keep up with the F-5 and F-4. The J-8b is a formidable 3rd generation fighter, but due to a protracted development it became operational well into the 4th Gen and was always obsolete.
The MiG-23 will also fill this niche.
For me, its what personal connection i have to the airplane, for example: F16 is at my local airbase, MiG21 and 23 are some that my father told me about and SU17 is the one i work on from time to time
Now I'm afraid this module will not be included in ECW servers...
Putting my own personal thought on how seeing the J-8PP in the announcement affected me, before watching the rest of the video: Primary thought was "curiosity". "Deka is a good module maker, so that doesn't worry me, but how in the heck is a Chinese plane with US avionics gonna feel like? I must try this!"
It is a shame that it's not a normal J-8 II, which would fit better in DCS, but also that one isn't really the kind of plane I play usually, so the PP might actually be more up my alley anyway.
I believe that the J-10 series would have been a better pick, however it is nice to have any more redfor FF modules.
I honestly realli like the idea that we gonna have some more chineese jets, I personally, big fan of Redfor, and i would gladly see some more multiroles for it. Even bombers, since ground pound is really cool in DCS, I would gladly Hug Su-24, Or any other variant berween Su-17 and 22. (considering it would fit nicely in Cold War Scenarios)
This is a well done video. I will admit as some time has passed I'm less salty about the PP. However I'm still not planning to purchase it. From my view it kind of defeats the purpose of everything I enjoy about a full fidelity sim. To me, representing what it's like to learn and operate real military aircraft is like the whole appeal. I even bind the controls of every plane differently to try to match their real life layout. So a plane that never really finished being made and doesn't exist in any numbers just has no appeal to me
Main Reasons for me to buy new modules:
- Is it interesting (Looks pretty, goes really fast, has something unique, ...)?
- Does it offer something no module in my collection has?
- Is it fun to fly?
I don't think the J-8 will be a module for me. It looks butt-ugly and will probably have similar weaponry and sensors as all other western modules. Of course my perspective isn't influenced by focussing mostly on PvP of the coldwar period as it is in your videos. I mostly fly PVE-missions in a modern setting with a squadron using any module I like. We often have KA-50s flying alongside Apaches while JF17 and F16 fly CAP / SEAD / whatever.
Definitely going to get it - the fact that it's a Unicorn Airplane actually enhances my interest. Add in Deka's well established reputation for quality and ongoing support, along with the interesting role this can play in PvP, and it's a no-brainer purchase.
One thing the haters seem to ignore is that this aircraft wasn't a failure, it was a victim of circumstance. It would've flown and it would've been MORE successful than the domestically produced variants of the time (which was the entire point of the IRL project!).
I'm POSITIVE Deka would rather bring us a Full Fidelity J-15, but just as with modern RU jets, it's just not gonna happen.
Not only that, there is a general surge in DCSW development around Gen 3 Cold War aircraft & popularity, so it may just be that Deka have correctly read the tea leaves...
This is a GREAT compromise module and I look forward to seeing how it fares in the skies of DCSW.
I think the Peace Pearl is neat. The Frankenstein of both western and Eastern tech is cool but at the same time if it was a full fledged domestic Chinese jet, it wouldn't hurt either and its not the first time this happened in regards of unicorn, the Ka50 black shark III can be considered a unicorn as it never had the third extra pylon.
Ka-50 completed development and was built in the 10s. Peace Pearl only had 1-2 unfinished prototypes. Not the same
Looking forward to this iconic Blue For jet.
Jokes aside, if it's modeled well, could be neat, sucks Deka hit the mil sec wall and couldn't do a more common J-8, but what can you do?
DCS, especially for Red For is a game of taking whatever you can get.
I hate that it’s a unicorn. But, the fact that there are basically no FF redfor aircraft means it’s the one of the select few to fill that role. I probably still won’t buy it considering the MiG-21 is planned to be reworked.
It’s a dud of an announcement, there’s no way around it. However, let’s not forget that ED and other 3rd party devs have ‘dibs’ on modules that we don’t know about. I have a feeling Deka is working around what’s already being worked on.
What pushes me to buy a module is the airframe and what can push me away is if who developed the module has a bad track record.
The modules I want most and have wanted most for a long time are the MiG-29A, The Su-27, Su-33, and A10A to be done as full fidelity and the F-16A, F-15A, and F/A-18A
Late cold war has always been my point of interest, and I think having blufor the aircraft everyone in the modern area love done in their late cold war Fox-1 variants could draw quite a few away from their MFD's to come try out the cold war era.
Honestly something I feel DCS has a current issue with is map focus, some maps are perfectly viable and a great choice because they offer something up related to historical operations or what if cold war scenarios such as Caucus, Persian gulf, Sinai, Syria, or the Kola map, meanwhile other maps leave me scratching my head as to either why are they done specifically this way or at all? And why does it seem some dance around certain areas?
Such as aside from the Australia map, why does Marianas only have Blufor islands when Blufor are the carrier powerhouse?
Also why do we have three desert maps that could have included Iraq but haven't?
There are many maps that offer alot in terms of potential that aren't being made such as Vietnam, Korea, the Fulda Gap, etc.
While I get that there sometimes are valid reasons for these things, even up to lately the devs, ED included haven't seemed to listen to player wishes or feedback, and in some cases such as the MiG-29A 9-12 which was supposed to be developed after BS3 we have been told nothing.
Any new module for this game is fantastic.
I won't be buying it ... Why?
Well, because I'm a Helo guy myself ... BUT ... BUT .. BUT
This does give us more balance of aircraft to choose from.
This does help develop DCS into a more comprehensive program and market.
My thought is:
The Saab AJS-37 Viggen was released in 2017.
Did the Viggen have a huge fanbase?
Compared to the Tornado or the A6 Intruder ... No
Is it an incredible module that fills a NICHE market (ie. non-NATO) .. Yes
Has it benefited the community since 2017 ... YES
The Viggen was not my first choice ... BUT if I fly fixed wing ...
I FLY THE VIGGEN.
My point is, lets celebrate this and see what it brings ... No one loses and everyone wins.
We don't have to buy it ... if we do, we win.
If we dont, we fly with it when another DCS pilot flys it ..
We win ...
I am grateful and say ... Whoop Whoop ... LETS GET ON WITH IT!
What I dislike the most about the variant choice was that it was a prototype that didn't enter service, hence it compromises the authenticity of what it represents. Deka has also said they made this one given the other late modernized variants they wanted to do weren't possible, so feels like they choose not to research the early one from the 80s featued in aeck's meme. Maybe that one given it's age and definitely no longer in service could have had better chances of not being restricted and it actually belonged to the cold war period.
J-8 is actually still in service. Mainly used for reconnaissance.
To your question: What drives me to buy a module is my familiarity with it, did I see it fly in my life time, iconic, combat, offensive load out, what was it's primary mission? A few cold war era planes I would like to see eventually are the British Buccaneer, American F-111 Aardvark, German/British Tornado. These are modules I would like to buy and fly - I don't see any fast bombers yet, we have F-15's, F-16's, and the like that are fighters first, and mud movers second. The aforementioned additions would require more coordination for escort to and from a target and bring heavier payloads in the dynamic campaign to move the front lines. Lastly, I'm neutral to the addition of the J-811 -- it doesn't excite me to rush to buy as the F-4 Phantom II does -- and I agree with the point of adding another OPFOR jet in the game because we need that for balance. Thank you for the question and opportunity to answer.
I watch quite a bit of DCS stuff, but I haven't really made the jump into playing it(I bought the F-5E but my pc couldn't really handle it). While the earlier J8s would be far more interesting to me, the PP isn't exactly a deal breaker either. Hopefully one day we can see a I or II, but if it is true that the PP is the only thing that could be made the debate is kinda pointless in my opinion. I'd rather see the PP than not see any J8.
The PP being a one off what if kind of plane does make me hopeful that perhaps something like the F-20 Tigershark could be added one day. I'd order that module even if I haven't upgraded my pc yet.
Chinese player here. I was really excited when I heard rumours that Deka was going to make the JH-7 which, as it turned out, didn't happen. And when they announced the J-8PP I was both surprised and disappointed. I mean, while getting a J-8 is definitely good news, the JH-8 would have at least been a Chinese jet with fully domestic avionics - something we'll now have to wait for years again, sadly.
See, I don’t think it’s truly a big issue. For the players who want more focus on realism, they can simply not include the module in their missions or servers. And those who want to use it can go right ahead.
I think a “best of both world” solution for both parties would be including a “real” version of the J-8 as an AI only model alongside the “fake” PP model so people can fly against it in missions without worry about being ahistorical would be nice.
Personally, I'd love to have something similar to flaming cliffs 3, for some of us who can't afford a joystick and some of the 80 dollar jets. FC3 was perfect and gave us realistic, yet simple jets that we can enjoy flying with just a simple controller and remembering a few binds.
for MP servers, if it overperforms or underperforms, weapon types and uses... without documentation, what do you do?
All great points! Great job! Personally I'm sucker for history with popularity. Meaning I'm looking forward to the F-4 Phantom II because of all the ground breaking history it made. (Also its a really cool looking jet) lol. I have never heard of the J-8II so not on my priority list to get.
I pick the modules that fit into the other available modules.
For example I recently picked up the L39 and Kola map. Why because the L39 was used by Russia so whilst I can’t find any info of training squadrons using it in this area, it’s not unrealistic.
Second the L39 was used by countries in the other maps. Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan. So if I decided to buy them, the L39 already fits into that picture.
I would love to buy one of the F86 or mig-15 variants but the key conflict area for these two, namely Korea doesn’t exist in DCS. Similar for Vietnam.
I think this is where IL2 has the edge. they make the maps and the aircraft to fit in with the missions/campaigns. I’m very excited for IL2:Korea for this reason.
My initial intro to DCS was the P51 and then I went on to get the Spitfire as the channel and Normandy maps plus campaigns already existed.
Next it was the F5 and NTTR map. Aggressor squadrons etc.
This is my trend, find an aircraft I like and figure out how it fits in to everything else.
I’d love to see an A6 in DCS but it would only be considered if we had a Vietnam map as well. Luckily we have the freeware A4 right now.
For these reasons the J8 is of zero interest to me at all.
Dekka make true quality modules. If they made two prototypes then yes it worked and flew. Dekka is the only 3rd party dev making red for fixed wing aircraft. will be an instant buy for me. It's a super mig21 with legs.
Razbam mig 23 and some other studio mig 17
A crazy unique and interesting jet that has always interested me. The east/west mix is really cool, but largely excludes it from DC's gameplay "niches". too low flight performance to mix with the 4th gens (Mabey in fox1s only situations it could be competitive), too advanced for mid cold war.
Not many other Chinese planes can realistically get modeled in DCS so I am happy to have it.
Its not interesting nor cool.
I think when people ask to combine multiple different time or different countries functions in aircraft like F15E, EF-2000 or others,It is ridiculous to deny a specific model of aircraft that actually exists
I'm not even a DCS player I just love chinese aircraft, but allow me to give a brief defense on why the J8II is a plane that deserves some love.
It's original variant, the J8, isn't a paper plane. The base model had over 400 constructed, the peace pearl changed avionics, and ejection seats, and while engine upgrades were rumored they were never confirmed. For the most part, the peace pearl is hardly a unicorn, and as far as paper planes go it's not one that's difficult to model accurately: It's a J8C with American avionics. The J8 itself is a Frankenstein plane, but also one of the most ingenious I've ever seen. It is a MiG-21 taken to it's furthest. Based on the Chinese copy, the J7, it uses two of the engines the J7 used giving it an excellent TWR, and great top speed. While it isn't as maneuverable as other J7 models due to them opting to keep the single delta wing setup, it's still a competent capable of BVR combat despite it's nature as essentially a poor mans third generation fighter. It's not the most advanced fighter in the game, but at the same time it's capable of surprisingly much considering it's design origins, and it's a very unique plane.
I like it and if there is communality between the airframes, I can learn it faster. Also, on the unicorn front I am for it bring on the F-20 Tigershark please and thank you.
The Tigershark would be fookin great!!!
As a Chinese I can confirm that the music you used during 2:10 was correct.
Furthermore I am a DCS player from shanghai, of course it is kinda illegal but I do feel good that there's more attention diverted on our nation's aircrafts.
Thanks for sharing your pov
What I genuinely want is a modern Flanker with MFDs and R-77 1s. So we can have a genuine Russia v US throwdown. But of course we can’t get any info on the Russian jets.
Next priority would be the Foxbat. I want a Foxbat. I neeeeeeed a Foxbat.
im honestly most interested/hyped for the Eurofighter (personal bias), but i think that depending on how well made, ill definetly give the J-8II a try!
i feel like this could be good as a way for f18 / f16 and now f15e players to get into cold war, chinese and redfor planes all at the same time
the jet can act as a bridge
I really don't care who makes a module as long as it's redfor, full-fidelity and something that I like. For example the MiG-23 (I hope RAZBAM releases that soon)
How can this be full fidelity when a lot about its avionics performance and limitations was probably never discovered since it was cancelled while still being developed?
This isn't RedFor. This is an aircraft with American avionics in it.
@MrSirKosky Yes that's why I mentioned the MiG-23 and I'm not going to purchase the J-8
@@mrsirkosky7618 It is redfor, whether you like it or not.
@@mrsirkosky7618 By that logic Ka-52 isn't redfor either
First off, kudos on opening up the discussion.
I'm not chinese and can't speak to that. I split my time between 2 ways of playing DCS: #1: airshow demonstration flying #2: MP PvPvE servers, mostly ECW but also GF and less often TBF. From the #1 perspective, this module has little impact other than as a curiosity to me. From the #2 perspective, it has more impact, but since I mostly fly BluFor it matters as a possible opposing aircraft, and I'm struggling to see where this module fits. It's cool to have another module out there, but who flies it and in what contexts? Given that we'd be getting the MFD-laden Variant, I suppose this would mean a TBF-type scenario?
Bottom line: I guess I'm ambivalent. Absolutely make it, the more full-fi modules the better, but I'm inclined to think it will have a minimal impact on the DCS landscape as a whole. I won't likely buy it and I get the RedFor concerns about allocation of resources for particular modules and not others, but overall I don't see this having that big an impact on DCS as a whole.
Well the su 7 17 22 and mig 25 would be awesome too.
Is only to wait we now have skyraider and phantom 2 so we only have to wait they come in the end
Chinese DCS players want J-10 than aging and unicorn J-8II Peace Pearl (cancelled in 1990 , 2 prototypes left in USA ). DCS is a realistic combat simulation not aircraft collector hobby game . Same type of high speed high allitude interceptor like SU-15 is a much better alternative , Su15 did shoot down Korean 747 airliner on Sept 1st 1983 .
Thanks for sharing your perspective
I’m personally pretty indifferent but the arguments made for it to be in dcs are good enough for me. I’ll grab it on a sale probably
tbh i dont have a huge problem with them adding some ''unicorn'' aircraft, as long as it was a pretty much functional thing and theres good documentation on it (and if its not completely ridiculous), i think its fine. for example id love to see the f20 tigershark in DCS
I'd also like a tigershark to be honest. Even if really the JF-20 pretty much is one already.
Wow!
ED told me wouldnt get the F-20 Tigershark because it didnt go into production and they wanted to stick to known aircraft that had a service life.
The J8 to my understanding was just a prototype.
To be fair the Red countries have basically banned any help for DCS and nearly all of them come from other countries that bought them like Cuba and Vietnam and such. This makes making any Russian/Chinese Aircraft a nightmare.
This isn't a module I look forward to right now. But that doesnt mean that my mind wont change once this hits the servers and I see how other players are using it.
I had no interest in the M2000 until I watched some of Bullet4MyEnemy's videos on it, and had to face it in Tempest's server. Now it's one of my favorite modules for both air and ground attack, even in modern Fox 3 servers.
If a module is released that is very versatile, and fun to use, and is available in their favorite servers, people will flock to it.
Quality of the flight model and multirole ability usually governs my purchases, some of the maps we see are a little bizarre but I have bought into them to support the companies making the more "out there" content, in the hope one day they go on to make content I really want, same goes for some of the aircraft I bought tbh.
I love cold war stuff, mostly 70s and 80s. A6 and A7 are on my to buy list. I would love to see like more Vietnam-era jets in the game. I don't particularly care that much for the modern Hornets and Fighting Falcons.
Tomcats and Viggens are more my thing.
I don’t really follow what’s going on in the DCS community, so I’m surprised (but also not that surprised) to hear people are upset with this module being announced. I saw it and thought it was very cool- it will definitely be on my purchase list. I think, like others have said, it’ll fit nicely in that Gen 3+ - early Gen 4 area. Better than a MiG-21 and worse than a JF-17. As far as the “unicorn jet” thing goes, I get it, but I don’t feel it matters TOO much. People (myself included) have long craved an F-20 Tigershark, of which there was also only 2 prototypes built. DCS shouldn’t be like WarThunder, but players also shouldn’t be afraid of something weird every now and then.
Keep up the good work Deka and Enigma.
PS… I also think the PC-9 is cool and will (hopefully) add a modern ground attack capability to the game we only have with warbirds right now. I’ll buy it too.
I buy a module if I have a personal interest in it. I typically have personal interest in the aircraft/terrain if I have admired the aircraft or aircraft that operated in the region of the terrain. One angle of my admiration of the aircraft is from personal taste acquired via exposure when I was a kid, these are mostly Mirage types and Impalas, this means I will buy any Mirage family member and Aermacchi. I still hope for a MB-326KC from IFE one day, Dino made one and also the 326M for P3D some time ago. Because the PC-9 is close to the PC-7 Mk II I will probably buy it day 1 as my country operates the PC-7 MkII.
Another angle is the history of the aircraft/terrain. I am very excited for Sinai (even if it is desert I don't care) because of the historical conflicts and therefore I am also excited for the Kfir and I have previously bought the MiG-21 and MiG-19. The history in that region is of interest to me because I played Janes IAF as a kid (still do) and the Kfir is close to the Mirage and Cheetah aircraft which was operated by my country.
I also have a bias towards older more analog feel so I tend to lean towards those type of modules more.
On the note of unasked for modules. I don't mind them. I can understand the developer. I don't believe they build it because they saw it as a way to make money. They probably just want to build it, there are much easier ways to make money if that was your goal. I for example would not mind spending time effort and money on building a Hawk Mk120 which I know "yet another trainer", well so what don't buy it. The reason I would choose that is because 1) personal interest, 2) resource accessibility, 3) a handful of not insignificant people want to use it. I can name another example: Cheetah, "there is already a Kfir and the Cheetah is not as good as the Kfir", I know, but again 1) personal interest, 2) resource accessibility. It would be impossible or very labour intensive for me to try and make an F-15 for example because it would be difficult for me to get access to resources where the ones I have mentioned are much easier.
I can also think of two other "desert" maps I want, make that 3, I'm not in love with the desert but history and personal interest in the regions makes me want it.
This is a very interesting topic, thanks for the video.
I'm personally interested in J-8 since it's more of a late cold war interceptor with BVR capabilities, I don't think (as of today) there is anything what would move me away from the module, I picked F-16C when it was in 'acceptable' but possibly I would prefer more F-16A with retrofits to BVR no higher. I dropped Mi-24 because it was P model, I was far more interested with V model because it is more spread around the world and it have more possibilities, since it is V you can always use excuse of Polish 24W (Poland does not have V in alphabet) as an excuse to offer weaponry from earlier models as Poland did made downgrade to Fleyta or Falanga missiles and S5 rockets bringing more possibilities for a single module. The V model also opens a possibility for upgrade to VP with minor adjustments to existing model giving you 2 cakes for a little more work than 1.
I was not happy with the Hind version that was selected but after playing it, I have to say it is probably one of the best modules in the game, def the best helo.
I got into DCS as an aviation history buff, watching re-enactment videos from creators like Growling Sidewinder and the Grim Reapers. My module selection is based on the eras and conflict theatres that interest me (Cold War>>>World War Two>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Modern), and with a very strong bias in favor of planes that have real-world combat records to study and learn from. With limited time to spend on the hobby, I have to pass on any module or map that doesn't have a place in that niche. I doubt I'll get the J-8IIPP for those reasons.
I'm 100% in agreement with you that Cold War is the future for DCS (with WW2 a secondary focus) and I'd love to see ED focus on fleshing out that era as much as humanly possible, rather than their current scattershot approach. Judging from most SP Hornet/Viper/Apache content, most DCS Modern players prefer simply blowing up hordes of obsolete Soviet-era AI assets anyways, so something like a Cold War Asset Pack would be a win/win for both the Cold War and Modern players. Let the 3rd Party module makers focus on FF modules while ED delivers core improvements and add-ons. 'Airbase' - modelling the Supercarrier functionality - seems like a total no-brainer!
8:30 And I think that's the real success of DCS. Rather than the stand-alone study sims we saw in the late 90's early 2000's, it is a system of study sims that can all play together in one more or less unified whole.
if i think its a cool plane. and i have extra cash on hand. mig21 is a bit of a pooch on MP servers like growling sidewinder but it looks so cool. is fun to fly and i think the vodka powered radar and is the coolest. i really want a mid 25 or su17 though
Su-17 would be really amazing for DCS
It's a freaking cool plane who cares about unicorn look at the ka50.......... will buy. I also must add, for every module released it only brings more players and leads to the purchase of other modules. Everyone including competitors profit sooner or later off the release of a new module. You learn it, love it then want that crackhead fix of learning another plane