Perhaps it’d be good to acknowledge that a lot of people freaked out over the cold sorc because your initial reaction was to freak out over the cold sorc 🙄
Yes for sure. I mean her limiting factor was a lot of cold immunes and that is now gone so I still see why it is very strong...but after I did more thinking I believe it isn't as big of a swing as initially expected.
My problem with the coldsorc is, that she basically gets to have the entire potential of her kit without specific gear to lower the resistance further than 95%. If I run a frostmaiden and dont have any - enemy cold res on my gear those enemies that were previously immune are still going to be a "challenge" to kill since only 5% of my dmg actually applies. Thats why I think the minimum res for the sundered element schould be something between 65-75. That way you will steal deal good dmg, but the monsters are never going to be "weak" to their immunity.
It all has to do with the general inability for the general population to think for themselves. Everyone on the internet is just waiting for someone else to put out an opinion they can latch onto without doing any thinking themselves.
I can kind of see it both ways. Yes llama has influence on the D2 community but depending on how that is acknowledged it could easily seem really arrogant of him too. I can understand wanting to avoid taking credit/blame but I also see your point that acknowledging the influence might also be wise.
we have a lil group chat going for my friends that play d2, and as soon as we heard about sunder charms, all of our minds went immediately to cold sorcs. we didnt have to hear it from llama, basically anybody who is dedicated enough to have spent more than a few hundred hours on the game knows the way cold mastery works with sunder will be a problem. that being said, it’s only for portions of the progression curve aka before u can afford infi, and we don’t know how rare sunders will be… i’m willing to see how it plays out
The whole point of cold mastery is to negate resistances. It was the peak of irony that the cold sorc was the most limited character in terms of which areas she could farm due to absurdly high cold res is throughout the game.
@@mophie6941 wrong, more cold immunities exist than fire. Fire immunes are like 90% of cold immunes. So yeah, you also feel the overwhelming cancer of infinite immunes
I think cold sorcs only benefit the most from sunder charms in the early (or even mid) game due to the cold mastery. But after getting Infinity and other minus res items, a lot builds like fire sorcs and lightning sorcs catch up because of their higher damage output.
That and the insufficient inventory space Is literally hilarious to me how limiting the game is, especially as a remaster after 3 patch . Yesterday I logged to check Terror zones and all the mobs were cold immune, so I basically logged out of that char because I couldn't play the game... Some old D2 players are just out of touch with how people want to play games nowadays. We don't want to be permanently limited in the way we want to play! Sure, put immunes all you like but allow us to break them in end game gear or through the power system. Limiting player agency is a set up to a niche restrained community or a dead one. At the end of the day if they want D2R to be only played by D2 boomers it's gonna happen.
@@Fishbro I never talked about having the most immunity, I'm talking about limitation. You have fire immune monster in normal if you didn't know. So fire is the most limited element
I think the correct view of sunder charm is that it will bring a lot more builds up to A-S tier instead of just the hammerdin and lightsorc. I think that's a good thing.
The biggest argument on this. Is if you take say a fire sorc. if you don't have any -% enemy fire resist. The once fire immunes are still at 95% fire resist. So they aren't immune to fire but take a lot more to kill via fire VS the cold sorc dropping the cold resist to 95% because of the Sunder Charm then -100% with cold mastery, so in the end Cold sorcs become the better option because of the speed at which they can clear areas that have cold immunes. Easy way to showcase this is get a full Fire Sorc with no -%enemy fire resist and see how many fireballs or w/e it takes to kill it vs a non-fire immune monster. You'll find that the previous fire immune monsters take a lot more time to kill vs the non-fire immunes, that is fine. However, the biggest issue that I think folks have is that doesn't happen with the Cold Sorc due to cold mastery. Granted this is all taken with a grain of salt because there is Phenoix, Flickering Flame, Infinity, etc. But out of the gate without those items Cold sorc with the Sunder Charm is the best out of the gate period, no way to sugar coat it imo.
It's a matter of equipment. Getting monarch with 4x 5/5 fire facet should give you -20 and another 20% dmg boost... and it's not that expensive getting lower resist wand and having it on swap will get you at least -31... and it can be bought with gold... that's still 64 res, so your damage is basicaly 1/3 of what it should be...but that's still more in numbers then cold sorc with same gear would have...
@@sytrostormlord3275 I get that, but tic for tac. Cold sorc doesn't need lower resist to do the same that a fire claw druid or fire sorc would need. which inherently makes them better. I know I can deck out a character with -5/5 facets, flickering flame and etc to make it so the Sundered Fire Immunes now take even more fire damage, but the Cold sorc doesn't giving more options for gear, instead of having to go Phoenix, flickering flame, etc etc.
First the cool down separation, allowing Orb and Blizzard at the same time. And now, with one single item, Cold Sorc not only breaks immunity, but can do full damage.
I read an interesting twitch comment the other day that suggested a reward system for collecting unique and set items similar to Holy Grail. The idea was that after collecting all set items your character glows green. After all unique, red. I think this idea of cosmetic progression is an ideal reward for all players in d2r. It creates a true sense of progression even through the early game when you find unique items that would otherwise just be left on the ground. I hope that blizzard will reward and recognize players that choose to explore and progress through their games with extensive hours of gameplay rather than cater to those who spend thousands on micro-transactions.
Most people just buy their shit off of JSP, or save edit. You're high if you think these dudes farm for their shit. Most of these guys are like Asmongold, and just sit there and let an army of simps do all their farming. Getting tired of the whole, "I played this game for 10,000 hours. Everything is too easy. Nerf everything" that all these game streamers spew out. If they want to stroke their ego and reappropriate somebody else's IP, the can develop one. The concept, that these absolutely useless people, can take somebody else's thing and ruin it after the made a living off of it...is insane.
I think the idea with the original D2 characters being not all-powerful was because they were meant to be played together in multiplayer so they could cover each others' weakness, but since D2 has long past its heyday and lets face it, most of the people who play D2R is playing with strangers so they don't coordinate their builds with random people on the internet or they just play singleplayer. Every aspect of D2 is well documented so people don't try inferior skills or try niche builds nowadays. I mean does anyone play paladin as a healer?
I'm hyped to grind out a godly fire sorc. Phoenix, flickering flame & infinity Merc will be absolutely nuts. With a 30/30 6x fire facet sword you can get up to -163 enemy fire res. On maxroll planner, I got that build to 89k DPS fireball & 110k DPS meteor
I only play single player and would like to see this in the game for sp players. To many mobs gate keep sorc. I get that it’s OP but a lot of builds have ten broken for over a decade and require tons of gear and play time to reach. Make the charms rare and leave them be. Give people choices.
@@Lonoty Yes, if you're going to mod single player, I suggest just upping the damage of unused skills. It'll be more work than enabling sunder charms, but ultimately you'll get actual build diversity as opposed to whatever this is now.
There are only 3 mobs that gatekeep a Bliz sorc in SP: NM De Seis, Hell Ancients, and Hell De Seis. and De Seis can be killed with a merc and static. With a decent hybrid build the entire game can be cleared in under 10 hours of play time Solo Self Found, especially in SP where you can abuse static maps and player count. If you really want to clear the entire game hybrid builds exist and allow for it, and have since day 1. I suggest FO/Hydra or Fireball with Bliz or Nova backup. I can understand the argument that it takes understanding (and a bit of RNG) to get past some hurdles, but your posting on UA-cam on a LLama video and in his backlog he has step-by-step guilds on how to do it on multiple builds for every class. If your comment is that every class should be able to do everything, there isn't a class that cant already do it with the right hybrid build. If your comment is that every build should be able to do everything equally, I disagree, but that is the direction the devs are taking D2R so you will get your wish soon enough. though by the above logic everyone on ladder will be running Fireball Sorcs by November as the numbers are... intense... I expect TZs to make their way to SP by February assuming A/B doesn't pull the plug on the D2R Program in favor of resources for D4 before then.
@@bobnewkirk7003 not everybody plays the game for the meta or researches the game to death. Iv played on and off since the original launch and found immunities added in lod as just plan annoying. I’d rather they never been in the game in the first place. I think every class should be able to clear everything just make some builds excel in specific areas. I don’t play online or compete so any of that is irrelevant to myself. It’s just my opinion regardless blizz is gonna do what they want.
Sunder Charms are one of my main reasons to come back to the game! Complaining about them makes no sense to me because they open up access to endgame content for endgame characters....
Here's the plain and simple: We don't want to see a fundamental change to how the game works, so these charms were added. Cold Sorc may go from previously being a high A-tier build to an S-tier build, but it's WAY MORE IMPORTANT that the DOZEN OTHER BUILDS that were B-tier and below are now competitive (basically A-tier). Sure, ONE already-good build got a buff, but so many others were buffed to a much larger degree, and that (to me) is far more important.
One of the things I like about D2 and Llama confirmed with several playthroughs, is that you can play with whatever build you want. Sure, some are more efficient than others, but they're all viable. Sunder charms makes them more efficient; not the same percentage for all builds, but they not break the game, and don't change core mechanics.
This is pretty much it. The good points are that you still have to earn the charms by farming them out, they have a nice little kiss/curse feature by also lowering your resistance, and if you wanted to play the game like before, you can still just slot in a +1 skill charm instead. This simply allows other builds to play the game in more than a few end game areas when you've earned it.
@@zanido9073 because the game, as we know it, will still be *fundamentally* the same, but allow for more build options? Surely you can see how this still retains the core design as opposed to, for example, outright removing immunities?
@@dangerdowell9925 Barb are getting the short end of the stick here. Very low damage and terror zones wont matter that much to them as they were pretty much just farming Travs or Pits. The sunder charms brings the physical immunities to 95%. Which mean you will be doing 5% of your damage to that monster. With the new patch a reapers toll would bring the monster to 45% PI and you would do 11x more dmg than what you are suggesting, making the reapers toll even more viable. And reapers toll was already very good for all the monsters that had no physical immunities, such as boss (diablo, baal) where its pretty much needed if you are running p5+ games.
I'm more concerned with the fact that, by proxy, Sunder Charms made Act 2 mercs the only viable pick once again. After a patch that buffed act 1, 3 and 5 mercs, no less. Here's why. Infinity and Reaper's Toll, both are only usable by Act 2 mercs, are making huge difference in DPS. With right Sunder Charms, not only immunities of monsters are lowered to 95% resistance by default, Infiinity lowers elemental resistance by additional 85%, which gives 10% resistance. Likewise with a Reaper's Toll, you can get 100% physical resistant monster to 45% easily. In both cases, that also applies to monsters who's resistances couldn't be brough down below 100%, or barely below that. Act 1, 3 and 5 Mercs are not useless in endgame again.
Sunder Charms undid basically all the work they did for the previous balance passes. The new meta will be Fireball > Java > PNecro> Fissure > Hammer > Zerk > Trapsin, which save how broken fire is now, are the exact same meta builds that came out of D2L. Though you are able to play ZooDruid, Nova, bladesin or bone necro, They will be strictly less effective than the above builds. In short, we all have the option to take the long way to the restroom but when the time comes you bet we are going straight there.
I feel like this will bring about more types of builds. For the first time I’m actually thinking of building something other than a hammerdin to start ladder. I’m happy to see some changes. Hopefully next ladder they give another RW with teleport to switch things up.
@@wizinjsh either from jsp or self found yes. Either way I won’t start with hammerdin this season. I’ll likely start with barb using item find on elite packs gives me 2x chance to find sunder charms/hrs/gear. I also think the physical sunder charm will be cheapest
The Cold Sorc feels too OP to me when sundered charms are introduced because Cold immunity is inherently one of the most common in the game together with Fire. The premise is that they now do bonus damage if the enemies have their resistances go down to the negatives, all with only having enough skill points alone. Then I realized that sundered charms are only available on Terror Zones and it appears to be a very rare drop, so by that time that same Cold Sorc might already have the resources needed and properly gear up herself and her mercenary if they decide to farm or trade for one, which is already near her peak potential.
Notes: This was filmed before sunder charms rolled a % on their resistances. Now they roll from 70 to 90% negative resistance for your character instead of a flat 75%
@@香噴噴-p6f No, the resistance your character loses when wearing the charm is a range now. Depending on what element the charm is there are different things you lese. The cold charm can now roll -70 to 90 res for you own character.
I think what people are arguing is that Cold Charm is OP since its the only item you need with a Cold Sorc to bring every mob down to -100 while the other builds are stuck with 95 Res Monsters and need expensive items to bring down. I still love the charms though. Now i wonder, is the Cold Sorc the best to start with? Remember, these charms seem to be as rare or more than a Gheeds and need to be farmed on TZ, i think a character that can farm the fastest with the less immunes on those zones will be the best starter no?
Well Yes, but albo other elementy have muuuch more dmg, 20k blizzard? Sweet tak with my 60k dmg fire Ball... oh monster have 95 fire immune? Nah these 5% of my dmg is still enough
There is another point on why cold sorc seem op on paper: its very cheap to build, like once you get the cold sunder charm that's it, no need infinity, no need enigma, just level the char to 80+ and then you got a char where can farm anywhere in the game. (btw it will be for sure be my first s2 char lol) PS: poison necro sounds very powerful now too, due having lower resist, but again, you need enigma so it will be a bit more expensive anyways
Ya all act like this is 100% drop and not random. Unless you are dork who does nothing else but play Diablo all day long, chances are you will most likely never even get these charms. I have more issue with couple of overpowered runewords that make about 95% of uniques and set items completely pointless. Playing D2 "classic" mode was actually kinda refreshing and reminded me how tough can Hell actually be.
I think the big difference between having a light sorc with infinity or a hammerdin with enigma being so powerful is that those characters weren't being played as first characters (hammerdin to an extent, but in party play usually). you can take a blizz sorc at 24 and never deviate from it until you have that sunder charm and now with a single character playing by itself you have an end game wrecking machine. can you level a light sorc, walk it into a hell terror zone with minimal gear? not really. but you can do that with a cold sorc and walk out with everything you need to farm anywhere in the game.
Those complainers are just "non-Sorceress" players who are *mad and jealous* that their own character builds can't match the Cold Sorceress builds. Glad the developers didn't touch "Cold Mastery" and I hope it stays the same forever (so deal with it, haters).
The way I look at it is the Meta builds are getting a slight buff but that's completely out weighted by the buffs to all of the non meta characters. I don't think all of the classes should all be just as strong but I don't think only having three classes actually be good and the rest being sub optimal is good game design either. There needs to be more balance. I also think the game should be made harder overall but in other ways. Because resistances really only made the game hard for characters that weren't sorcs or hammerdins. Or Melee characters of course who need a buff for sure despite that.
To build on your ending notes: The problem aren't Sunder Charms, the problem is that there's no real reason to build a strong PvE character: Last ladder, I thought of a hybrid kicksin that could do all content well. I did some theorycrafting, compared to a few guides, then finally built her. She was fun to play and performed quite well, but with 0 MF, she was worse at farming than my mediocre Orb/Hydrasorc, who could also do all content with more MF. If you plan on planning and farming a lot, you could also invest into meta farming builds like Hammerdins, Pitzerkers and Lightning Sorcs (with Infinity), which make other builds even more pointless for farming. I now have a terribly equipped Orb/ES sorc able to clear all content thanks to cold sunder... which is the same end result, I just got there sooner. So I would say the root of the problem are not sunder charms but MF and lack of higher-end challenges. Whether MF needs to be scrapped completely or more evenly distributed between items is a separate discussion, as is implementing extra challenges without going the full "running on a treadmill with gradually increasing numbers" way that is D3's current endgame.
Thanks for deep diving into the Cold Mastery, super valuable info! I'm on the fence with Sunder Charms, personally I like having the challenge/knowledge of needing to know what areas have what types of Immunities and what character I can use in that zone. That said, probably my most used characters are still the Blizzard Sorc & Hammerdin, and I am interested to see how Sunder Charms mix up my gameplay. I personally build different types of characters to still play around and use them for clearing different areas, but I am interested to see how it feels down the road and see if we all still just gravitate to playing Blizzard Sorc & Hammerdins.
I think there is another part of the equation that made people think about it as making Cold Sorceress much stronger. Namely: not every 85 area is created equal. I may be wrong about it but Chaos Sanctuary and Worldstone Keep were always considered THE ultimate endgame areas. I am not talking about the number of uniques and whatnot but the sheer difficulty of those monsters. They are tougher, most of the time more dangerous, more durable. Creating an endgame Cold Sorceress limits you to the Tunnels which is considered an extremely easy 85 area - monsters are slow, they explode from one or two Blizzards, you can mindlessly farm it and almost never be in danger. In Chaos one wrong teleport or combination of enchantments on monsters can kill you. Same with WK. That's why people start with Cold Sorc and as soon as they get Infinity, a switch to Light Sorc is considered an "upgrade". It's not really because you can farm everywhere (but that also) but more because you can farm *there*. So Cold Sorc suddenly being able to clear Chaos just like Light sorc is perceived a bigger buff than it actually is, simply by the virtue of Chaos' reputation.
@@Roadrunner_KZSK Not exactly true. WK plays a lot faster due to more dangerous mobs. Witches with their physical attacks, stygian dollls on the final level, souls - even at -100 there is simply no comparison to the chill atmosphere of slow zombies and skeletons in the Tunnels. Even Pit is much more dangerous then the tunnels because you can roll extra strong aura enchanted Archers with something like multishot that will absolutely obliterate you if you are not careful.
The discussion is not how cold sorcs compare to other builds when completely decked out. We are talking early ladder... and the gap between cold sorcs and other characters was already pretty massive and it only grew wider with the introduction of the sunder charm. What other build can farm every single terror zone even remotely as effective as a cold sorc without a single high rune? The answer is none. Hammerdins needs enigma and other builds needs enigma and infinity. You break an immunity in shit gear on a fire or lightning character you're only doing 5% damage... not exactly worth it, you're better off farming something else until a new terror zone gets chosen.
The key here is that you need the charm to farm that way. Personally I'm looking at Nova to start as ES is safe and a LR wand will break immune uniques that bliz would likely have to skip. I may even roll Trapsin or Summons Nec for the same reason. If Cold Sunder charms are rare I predict we are going to have a ton of sorcs struggling in TZs early on.
Its simple. Sunder charms give cold sorc advantage prior to obtaining infinity. After, its the same ammount of skill points. Prior to infinity with sunder charms cold sorc able to lower monster resist with cold mastery. Once infinity and lower resist gear is obtained, respec into fire , lightning or cold sorc with less points into cold mastery and more into synergies. I dont see an issue here... basically with cold sorc you will have opportunity to farm for hear any area you want. Once gear obtained, respect into what ever you want
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İt is simple, hammerdins have advantage prior to sunder charms and sell those shiny charm that cold sorcs maybe be able afford
And to farms those charms you have to farm TZ, and to maximize the chance you can kill every unique pack in a TZ i think it may be better to start with a Hammerdin rather than a Cold Sorc no?
Cold sorc already hitted hard all the act bosses (but didn't oneshot them) and won't hit them any harder with sunder. Like... one of the main farming points. Personally, I play right now FO+Hydra and CS isn't much of a problem except Lord De Sies or any other enemy with immune to both cold and fire roll. But I have a merc for that. Baal is also farmable with that build. I also hate Blizzard (skill, not company) and love Frozen Orb. It's cool and handy when Blizzard is just very unwiedly with it's zone damage over time. A bit of quality of life would be nice to be sure. And yes, lightsorc with infinity exists. Fister Paladin is now also exceptionally good for farming anything. (I also hate MC Hammer and consider blessed hammer too unwieldy)
as a person who always starts ladder with a blizz sorc, i think the main pain points sunder removes are: lord de seis for CS, nilathak and his minions, and baal wave 2. it’s a make or break for me - i can’t farm those areas with my early gear cuz i feel it’s too unreliable/slow to wait for my merc, but now hopefully i’ll be able to!
Immunities were a lazy way to artificially add difficulty and promote team play, along with MF and No Drop %, what they should have done is mimick what the players resist already does, cap it, but give it larger buffers that make it harder to break, want to make cold "immune" hard for a blizz sorc? give them 275% cold resist, that functions as a 95% damage reduction cap, but to get it to drop below 95% resistance you need cold mastery and rainbow facets etc that are trade offs for other gear pieces to break immune, these sunder charms just make it easy mode by capping it at 95% resist with no buffer for the monster, and creating a different trade-off, they're dumb, but at least it's SOMETHING to break immunities for anyone who isn't a paladin, or the few that Infinity break EDIT: What I mean by a buffer is, you are capped at 75% for say fire, but with Hell you have a -100 in LoD/Expansion, so to get that 75% you need minimum 175% resist to Fire, but if you get cursed, you're back down below 75%, so you would want to stack to lets say 225% Fire Resist, so even with the -100 for Hell, and a curse of -50%, you still have your cap 75% resist. Monsters should work the same way, Cold Mastery SHOULD break cold immunes, no sunder charm needed, and the trade-off is more investment in Cold Mastery vs other skills. Sunder Charms are a lazy "fix", monsters should never be above 95%, even with NO way to break immune, doing SOME damage would make sense, there should be a physical component to Frozen Orb smacking a monster, etc, a skill rework would have been way better and sundering all mobs and tweaking resistance values would have been a much more elegant solution.
The "OP" part is that Cold Sorcs will be able to bring cold immunes to negative resistance with pretty cheap gear (Shako, Vipermagi etc). No other build in the game will be able to compete in that mid game scenario before you get things like Enigma or Infinity.
It being cheap or not isn’t very important; infinity doesn’t break most cold immune monsters while it does for other types, so sunder actually balances things out, on the contrary
MacroBioBoi made a video (title: This is Why You're Wrong About Cold Sorceress Sunder Charm) comparing the benefit of the sunder charms for a cold, a lightning and a fire sorceress. Fire and lightning dish out far more damage, despite resistances not being at -100%. And their damage improves against creatures they could break already immensely. Also, cold sorceress will either need to invest more skillpoints into cold mastery, or need an infinity, to bring the sundered cold immunes down to -100% resistances. So, pre-infinity their damage will drop, so they can get the sundered immunes to -100%, so less points in synergies. Or they will not invest more into cold mastery, and previously cold immunes will be just barely in the negatives (if at all).
Another thing that people might be failing to consider: these sunder charms may be critical in setting up for whatever Blizzard devs are planning to do next. Here's hoping. :)
"no incentive" to create more characters? that's kind of the point, no? -> they created the sunder charms for normal people like me to sink my teeth into one char, find that charm and then FINALLY have ALL THE MAPS to farm to lvl99... -> -> which again is why they added the terrorized zone... just my 2 cents
The people freaking out over this are just the ones that are completely against changes in D2. We dont even know how common these charms will be, chances are they will be a pain in the ass to farm for and as such will be wildly expensive to trade for, most people probably wont even get a chance to use them, especially through ladder seasons, and to top it all off, its not going to affect you if other people are enjoying using them so just dont use them if you dont like them, problem solved.
I think they made the balance pretty good with the charms, yes you can kill that immune mob now - but you lose a massive amount of that resistance so you can be killed easier (in theory). So they make it give and take. I don’t see this stopping other character grinds, if anything I can increase them as they can farm with a main toons for sub toons easier.
I think you are misrepresenting the primary argument for why this is specifically broken in the case of cold. With a sunder charm, fire sorc hitting fire immunes goes from doing 0% dmg (immune) to doing 5% dmg (sunder sets res at 95% instead of immune), but cold goes from 0% dmg to 200% dmg for the exact reason you outline here. But also, cold sorc already requires the least gear in the game to be super effective at farming, so now they require the least gear to get started, then once they get a sunder charm, they can do literally anything at no cost and no risk and they are better at it than any other build. Saying light sorc and hammerdin could already do that is missing a rather large part of the argument because even though yes, light sorc and hammerdin could clear any mob, cold sorc already was by far the most common build, and this is objectively a larger buff for cold than any other element.
not to mention the mechanics of blizz/orb vs the mechanics of fireball meteor and chain lightning mean that ur clearing places way faster. the overreaction is warranted. 100%.
I don't necessarily disagree. I'm very lukewarm on the whole sunder charm/TZ idea. But the problem is that we don't know how rare these things are gonna be. Everyone on both sides is assuming you're gonna have them basically from the start, maybe cos in PTR they just gave them to us. You're talking about having low level gear, so by implication, you're assuming you can get a sunder charm early, but maybe they will be as rare enough that you are likely to already have late game gear by the time you get one and you might have a tonne of -enemy res in other elements at that point. I, for one, hope that that is the case, but we don't know and I think that's a major oversight by the devs in trying to gather feedback on this... The drop odds are pretty critical to how game-breaking they will be....
True, but there's also a counter-argument for that. After getting infinity, light (and now fire) sorc are WAY better than cold sorc because their damage is much higher. This is the same dynamic that already existed - cold is better early game, but as you attain gear and runes, other builds surpass it. Sure it has -res, but it doesn't have nearly the damage output (even being doubled due to -100% monster res) of lightning or fire late-game. MacroBioBoi has a video on this, going over actual damage numbers. After seeing them, I'd say fire is gaining the most out of sunder charms being added, not cold.
@@ruthlesstoothless8577 They also have a high level requirement. You've likely finished the game by the time you're getting to use them, and you're just working to optimize.
I don't think this necessarily changes much though. The sorc progression is still: low gear = dual element build or blizzard, better gear = blizzard is most efficient but other builds exist, best gear = lightning sorc. But now this opens up the best geared builds to allow for fire, lightning, and cold. This really doesn't change much on the lower gear ends tbh.
I actually really like it. It reduces the proverbial cost to play. You can also play anything you want and even get creative if you want about special builds and it actually be viable and fun. I love the idea that I can use a pure cold sorc and can do everything.
You don't get it. In the past you could've had a character that can do anything, but usually at a cost of Jah Ber Ber+ (you'll need infinity to break immunities, coh and andies, so the merc doesn't die, probably enigma if you're not a sorc, something along those lines). Current cold sorc is that character at the cost of one sunder charm + maybe a pul (probably less), which is WAY less unique than Jah Ber Ber+. Cold sorc is basically LFR of Diablo 2 now.
It totally depends on how common the charms are. If the charms are common, then the issue is pre-enigma and pre-infinity, which is the entire game for the vast majority of players. Previously, you could farm everywhere with a hammerdin, but it couldn't teleport. Alternatively, you could play a sorc and teleport but you had limited options. Now, with a single commonly found charm, all areas are open to the sorc and also they can teleport.
There are many ways to lower res for fire and light without infinity. flicking flame, crescent moon, plague, even with enemies that have 50 res a massive + skill damage build can and will compete with cold. Also cold sorcs have a hard cap for damage other builds are going to crush the game at end game gear way better.
Hi all! What’s the best way to get an infinite, or larger stash in D2R? I’ve tried the Expanded Inventory/Stash mod, but it seems a bit cheap with how large it makes your inventory, and it’s quite buggy as well. I’ve seen a few people talk about GoMule, but not sure if that’s the best route either. I know that PlugY doesn’t work in D2R either. Any other suggestions? NOTE: I’m a single-player only player. I never play online, so mules aren’t really an option.
Mules are an option because you have 3 shared stash tabs in d2r and you can easily transfer items between characters with zero mods. Yes in single player.
I like the concept of what sundered charms do in allowing for more build diversity amongst elemental damage dealers, but I don't like being reliant on grand charms cluttering up my inventory for optimal builds. I was never a big fan of charms to begin with. They've just become empty space fillers for endgame characters who no longer care about farming the actual equipment in the game because they have most of the best drops so now all they have to look forward to are charms to hoard in their already limited inventories. I think the original developers ran out of interesting ideas for new expansion items so they threw charms in the game without thinking about how they detrimentally impact the whole point of PvE in D2, which is to find exciting loot for new characters and builds. They've become a ball and chain: You're damned if you endulge in them because they make managing new loot drops a chore, and damned if you don't in terms of competing with other players.
Thats why i think we need a Charm Inventory. Something like what the PD2 mod did, you start with a bigger inventory and as you fill it with charms in the Charm only space you end up with the original inventory size. Its a perfect solution imo.
My problem is that I just don't think it's a *fun* solution. Letting all characters be one-skill-wonders and never needing to change skill is kind of a boring game design. In Diablo 1, you essentially switched between Fireball and Chain Lightning, depending on which monster you were killing. It adds a bit of positioning and a little tactic involved, depending on which monster combination you got on the particular floor. All these years I've wished for something similar for D2. Sorceresses wouldn't be confined to Ancient Tunnels until when they can break all immunities, and then suddenly they just kill the whole game with Lightning. Sorceresses would typically be dual-element, and alternate spell depending on what they were killing. To anyone who is about to say "You can literally do that right now" - yeah but it's just not as good as just being a single-element Blizz sorc. Especially not with these new charms. I think the whole immunity thing in D2 was done wrong from the start. The vision of single-skill sorceresses that are confined to areas based on which areas do not contain *any* immunities from which trees makes for a worse game to play than what could have been, in my opinion. Dual-element sorc builds should have been *inherently stronger* than single-element, perhaps due to interesting cross-element synergies, perhaps due to cross-element masteries, but either way it should have been how sorceresses just were built. It would have made for a better game to play. Sunder Charms will improve certain other characters in the game (or could have been solved by some other means for those characters, like a Druid Pelt that breaks fire immunities). But for Sorceresses, Sunder Charms will forever cement this single-element playstyle that I had hoped we'd get away from.
Being able farm new areas is a boon, but the main buff, to me, is that Cold Sorc actually has more options for her merc. At level 36 Cold Mastery she has -195% cold resist(need less skill points if you have nightwing or facets), so she can drop enemies to -100% without infinity while Fire and Light sorc still want infinity. She actually has room to run more unique merc builds.
Easy fix: if you don't break immunity by normal means, and instead need a charm, monster gets a "sundered" status - its immunity breaks and goes down to 80% resistance instead of current 95%, but with this status it can't go into negative values. Also give physical/melee attackers some love, make attack rating like 20% less demanding to hit something, and maybe add something crazy like attack rating giving you up to like 50% physical resistance pierce.
I think sunder charms are GREAT and always hated immunes. I love new changes to D2 as long as it keeps in the spirit and feels legit. Plus stacking ANOTHER 80 resist to get max resists is going to be pretty damn hard.
Hammerdin is OP because concentration aura has been bugged forever. For Lighning u need Infinity, which is a very high rune investment. No casual player will ever have an infinity. The cold sunder charm will make something like a blizzard sorc OP. If she puts just a few more points in CM there wont be any difference between a cold immune and any other monster. I think u should maybe put a cap into Monsters with broken immunities. So no matter which immunity the monster had, that it would at least still be resistant to that element. For example the sunder charm breaks it down to 95 % but it could never be less than 75 %. That way you could still break immunes but keep their characteristics. I think it makes sense that some cold immune monster in the crystalline passage or so should still be a hard one to kill with cold damage. Or a ghost in the arcane sanctuary should be hard to kill with phys damage. It shouldn't be impossible to kill immunes, but it should be challenging. If a monster had like 150% CR before, u shouldnt be able to bring it down to -100. The Monster has to keep at least some of its uniqueness (if this is a word. ).
@@raulsanchez543 that too, they really should fix that. But I was mainly mentioning the Hdin because Mr. Llama mentioned it in comparison to the cold sorc.
The other weird thing about the complaints with sunder charms is that by the time you get them, you've already finished the game. They are only relevant for going to 99 or holy grail.
i’m not sure i intend to go for 99 or grail, but i do enjoy the post hell baal grind for gear, which starts roughly around 80. i feel like that’s where the game rly begins for me.. and i feel that sunders will still be highly relevant for me despite not going for either of ur scenarios
@@gaberielpendragon I acknowledge your point, but a lvl75 character isn't an end-game character at all. At lvl75, you'd barely have your mid-game equipment; if that...
So you have to take points from some skills (probably from synergies too) to get higher level cold mastery which doesnt help you against fire/lightning etc immune monsters because they already were at -100% cold I think ill be fine with regular level of cold mastery and spent the extra 1 second fighting the "cold immune"
With decent gear you have enough points to get lvl36 CM and still max out every blizzard synergy, so there isn't any trade-off to be made. Before that it just becomes a math problem based on which areas you are farming
This is how I think it should be, if you come up against a monster with lighting resistant, it should take you longer to break the resistance, seeing as we can’t have 100%, they shouldn’t have 100% or more in the game, that should be the same for any resistance you come across, if your running fire and come across a fire resistance monster should take you longer, same with lightning, cold, magic, stone skin
As a casual d2r player, I absolutely love sunder charms, cold specifically. I hated not being able to deal with immunities unless I had a super expensive merc. Ive never even seen a ber drop personally, but I had help getting a sunder charm and soloed most of my way thru hell without a merc. The try hard elitests will say they are bad for the game, but they can take their hammers and sit on them
whats the average lvl you get on cold mastery? cuz lvl20 gives -115% res and any further lvl gives -5% ..... if a monster is cold immune + sunder charm -> now it has 95% res ... to bring it down to -100% res u would need to have cold mastery *level 36* (-195%) since +95 - 195 = -100, but i guess llama was only generally speaking for simplification. _Since the sunder charm does only affect monsters WITH a immunity, it does not change the damage to any other monster, she will now simply be able to damage even those from whom she ran away earlier._
A better way to explain is that a fire Sorc with a sunder charm and maxed skill tree would do 5% (-95%) * (fire passive +300%) or 15% total damage as fire damage while the Cold Sorc would do 5% (95%) + (Cold passive 135%) or 140% of total damage as cold damage, a difference of 125% of damage difference from the max of those two elements or almost a 10 times difference from dealing 15% to 140%.
Add infinity, tals bonus, flickering flame, etc. to the fire sorc and your point becomes irrelevant. A fire sorc with sunder charms can bring monsters to negative resist AND their raw damage increase scales better.
Agree with statement that sunder introduction just brings some builds closer to hammerdins/lightning sorcs/javazons that could already do all the content. I think a lot of people have problem with Cold Sorc "being OP" bcs you immediately break immunity to -100 without need of any other gear on top of the charm. With ligtning you need to wait for Infinity to kick in and then have griffon and preferably other good stuff to kill immune monsters at decent speed. Cold sorc gets it for free which makes this class strongest beneficiary of sunder charms.
True, light sorc needs infinity to reach its peak dmg; but light dmg > cold dmg. So while more expensive, it is also a stronger build. So it is not like you are spending the cost of infinity to arrive where cold sorc was already at. -100 cold res * cold dmg isn't the same as -100 light res * light dmg
With the amount of cold immunes, the sorc doesn't really have a leg up on anybody. Even without the charms my orb/hydra sorc has no problem clearing any areas. Nithilaks corpse explosion and burning souls are the only thing to be careful around.
Blizzard sorc is the only character that combines budget gear, teleport, and can go anywhere on the game. (Assuming sunder charms aren’t too hard to get) Hammerdin isn’t nearly as fun without Enigma and infinity and all support skills gear is also costly. Only thing it’s not great at is Ubers. It’s hard to beat for ladder start and as a character to feed gear into other characters.
The issue is that it allows you to have the benefits of a hammerdin without any expensive items. (and no, I don't consider a non-enigma hammerdin to be viable, bhammer is a ridiculously clunky skill) It would be like if they changed infinity to be Ort Fal Ort Lum. Everyone and their mom would be playing light sorc.
Not new to D2 BUT new to runewords and beating hell my first time with your help. I have a hammerdin to farm chaos but wish I could play my sorc so I could be lvling her instead. With sunder charms I can now farm everywhere with my cold sorc aiming for my first 99 ! Wish they had them available in offline mode thou
Yeah but it depends on one thing: IF a cold sorc was to deal 100 damage, and a monster has -100% cold res, does the monster take 200 damage or still only 100? And furthermore, the cold sorc doesn't need to fill it's equipment like other masteries with -Res and can focus on skillers or MF. She IS OP with this comparatively, even more so if she deals double damage at -100 cold res.
the entire statement is a run on sentence. yes. -100% is equal to double face damage. you actually used the word. furthermore. hahahahahahaha. date a girl
@@game_jinx I'm not really sure what you're trying to accomplish by making fun of my sentence, only to go on with some of your own terrible sentence structure in doing so. FURTHERMORE, maybe you should try and gain some intelligence so a girl might consider dating you. Grow up kid.
While all that is true, the point is nothing has changed; this was already the case. It is just that her farming zone has become larger (basically all areas)
I played the Blizzard sorc using the new Sunder Charm on the PTR. I ran Mephisto a few times. I used Static to reduce him to 50% health. I casted ONE SINGLE Blizzard and Mephisto died every time. That's a little ridiculous.
Its difficult, targeted farming and having multiple characters that excel at different things is cool. But because hammerdins exist I think it was the only way, or maybe they could've include more unbreakable magic immunes instead :P
Or they could... just reduce the late game hammer damage by 40% (see bone necro). IF you want incredible versatility of damage - make it come at a cost of kill speed.
This is why Blizzard sorc IS IMBA: Lets compare her with some other S tier characters like Light sorc and blessed hammer paladin. With the new charms, for Blizard Sorc every enemy on the map stands at -100 cold ressists. For hammerdin every enemy will have their base ressistances BUT hammerdin needs enigma to clear as fast as a sorc For Light sorc with the new charms , lightning immune enemies will now have at best -25 light ressistances BUT Light sorc needs an infinity So Blizzard sorc can do the same and in many cases better job at a price of an enigma or an infinity cheaper than the other 2.
I remember when Llama was celebrating the nerf he thought they were going to slap on hammerdin to balance the game. It's great seeing him, and all the other diablo 2 elitists, panic about what they are actually going to do instead. I trust the D2R devs more than the elitists.
I’m excited to be able to play pure frozen orb or pure blizzard. I always did meteorb sorc, smiter/hammerdin. Hype new charms, I think people forget monsters didn’t always have immunities until 1.10? And 1.09 was considered peak D2 IMO and others.
Mr. Lamma - I have to disagree on a few points. I created a cold source and. After maxing everything out I still had points for light nova. So if my merc doesn’t kill, I can kill with light nova. So Baal is super easy for me. Kill the main with blizzard and the kill the skeletons with light nova. It’s simple and fast and then the rest with blizzard. So just for Baal runs I would think I need a sunder charm.
It make the game more solofarm (easy) and now why we play multiplayer? Just delet imunes -nerf hammerdind no concentartion aura -nerf infinty lvl12 to lvl5 -nerf coldmastery from 5% to 1% -nerf lifetap 50% to 5% -buff attackrating for melees -buff support skills and then we have a nice multiplayer game
oh so what this means is you don't need as many skill points in cold mastery..then more points for.. something else? Also, Sundercharms are still very end game, you still need to go farm it(or trade it I guess?...), and hope to get lucky with the zones that fits your cold sorc, as well as rolling the unique charm, and rolling the right unique charm, without having to constantly respec your char every hour...
The elephant in the room is that immunities are stupid and never should have been added. The fire element has been nearly useless since immunities were added. All this change is doing is adding another build that requires basically no gear and can plow the entire game like hammerdin. Is this a good change? Hard to say. Cool that fire sorc now has more playability, but will I pick that over cold that now has no resistance from any monster in the game? No, probably not.
Ive been playing D2 since day 1 it came out. I have ALWAYS hated immunes. like 90 or 80% immune would be enough of a tight spot, especially for melee, but fully immune screws alot of builds in alot of areas. That being said, I havnt played since the sunder went live. So i will have to see how it is now.
I think the issue is at equal mf gear, like 3-4pc tals set (3 for cold, 4 for light or fire), the Cold sorc can kill their immunes faster with sunder charms. Once gear is getting better at end-game level gear. They are around the same.
And there is nothing wrong with that. Different strengths at different investment/funding levels adds diversity, incentivizing different builds at varying stages. If every character/class/build progressed exactly the same, the game would get boring *way* faster, losing replayability.
@@P.E.E.K.S never said there was an actual problem. I said the issue, not everyone is going to go full ham on d2r. It’s the extreme casuals that are the majority voice that don’t understand the game mechanics and want everything to be ez mode.
Sunder charms break the game, it was the most group variation killing thing added to the game I have ever seen playing the game over 15 years. Even infinity is not as bad an offender because at least you have to find the runes.
At the end of the day these terror zones and sundered charms just enhance the end game experience... You can't access terror zones under you kill Baal in each difficulty... You can't equip the sundered charm until you reach Level 75... And we still don't know how hard it is going to be to find these Sundered charms in the terror zones.... Every sundered charm you find may not suit the build you want to make... You may be levelling well into the 90s before you even found the charm you needed... It will clearly still rely heavily on bnet trading and finding valueable items to trade for exactly what you need at high level...
Perhaps it’d be good to acknowledge that a lot of people freaked out over the cold sorc because your initial reaction was to freak out over the cold sorc 🙄
Yes for sure. I mean her limiting factor was a lot of cold immunes and that is now gone so I still see why it is very strong...but after I did more thinking I believe it isn't as big of a swing as initially expected.
My problem with the coldsorc is, that she basically gets to have the entire potential of her kit without specific gear to lower the resistance further than 95%. If I run a frostmaiden and dont have any - enemy cold res on my gear those enemies that were previously immune are still going to be a "challenge" to kill since only 5% of my dmg actually applies. Thats why I think the minimum res for the sundered element schould be something between 65-75. That way you will steal deal good dmg, but the monsters are never going to be "weak" to their immunity.
It all has to do with the general inability for the general population to think for themselves. Everyone on the internet is just waiting for someone else to put out an opinion they can latch onto without doing any thinking themselves.
I can kind of see it both ways. Yes llama has influence on the D2 community but depending on how that is acknowledged it could easily seem really arrogant of him too. I can understand wanting to avoid taking credit/blame but I also see your point that acknowledging the influence might also be wise.
we have a lil group chat going for my friends that play d2, and as soon as we heard about sunder charms, all of our minds went immediately to cold sorcs. we didnt have to hear it from llama, basically anybody who is dedicated enough to have spent more than a few hundred hours on the game knows the way cold mastery works with sunder will be a problem. that being said, it’s only for portions of the progression curve aka before u can afford infi, and we don’t know how rare sunders will be… i’m willing to see how it plays out
The whole point of cold mastery is to negate resistances. It was the peak of irony that the cold sorc was the most limited character in terms of which areas she could farm due to absurdly high cold res is throughout the game.
Mate Fire sorc is way more limited but I do get what you're trying to say
@@mophie6941 wrong, more cold immunities exist than fire. Fire immunes are like 90% of cold immunes. So yeah, you also feel the overwhelming cancer of infinite immunes
I think cold sorcs only benefit the most from sunder charms in the early (or even mid) game due to the cold mastery. But after getting Infinity and other minus res items, a lot builds like fire sorcs and lightning sorcs catch up because of their higher damage output.
That and the insufficient inventory space Is literally hilarious to me how limiting the game is, especially as a remaster after 3 patch . Yesterday I logged to check Terror zones and all the mobs were cold immune, so I basically logged out of that char because I couldn't play the game... Some old D2 players are just out of touch with how people want to play games nowadays. We don't want to be permanently limited in the way we want to play! Sure, put immunes all you like but allow us to break them in end game gear or through the power system. Limiting player agency is a set up to a niche restrained community or a dead one. At the end of the day if they want D2R to be only played by D2 boomers it's gonna happen.
@@Fishbro I never talked about having the most immunity, I'm talking about limitation. You have fire immune monster in normal if you didn't know. So fire is the most limited element
I think the correct view of sunder charm is that it will bring a lot more builds up to A-S tier instead of just the hammerdin and lightsorc. I think that's a good thing.
The biggest argument on this. Is if you take say a fire sorc. if you don't have any -% enemy fire resist. The once fire immunes are still at 95% fire resist. So they aren't immune to fire but take a lot more to kill via fire VS the cold sorc dropping the cold resist to 95% because of the Sunder Charm then -100% with cold mastery, so in the end Cold sorcs become the better option because of the speed at which they can clear areas that have cold immunes. Easy way to showcase this is get a full Fire Sorc with no -%enemy fire resist and see how many fireballs or w/e it takes to kill it vs a non-fire immune monster. You'll find that the previous fire immune monsters take a lot more time to kill vs the non-fire immunes, that is fine. However, the biggest issue that I think folks have is that doesn't happen with the Cold Sorc due to cold mastery. Granted this is all taken with a grain of salt because there is Phenoix, Flickering Flame, Infinity, etc. But out of the gate without those items Cold sorc with the Sunder Charm is the best out of the gate period, no way to sugar coat it imo.
It's a matter of equipment. Getting monarch with 4x 5/5 fire facet should give you -20 and another 20% dmg boost... and it's not that expensive
getting lower resist wand and having it on swap will get you at least -31... and it can be bought with gold... that's still 64 res, so your damage is basicaly 1/3 of what it should be...but that's still more in numbers then cold sorc with same gear would have...
Chances are youll find enough -% res equipment before getting hands on a sunder charm
@@sytrostormlord3275 I get that, but tic for tac. Cold sorc doesn't need lower resist to do the same that a fire claw druid or fire sorc would need. which inherently makes them better. I know I can deck out a character with -5/5 facets, flickering flame and etc to make it so the Sundered Fire Immunes now take even more fire damage, but the Cold sorc doesn't giving more options for gear, instead of having to go Phoenix, flickering flame, etc etc.
Fire facets dont exi….. oh wait
First the cool down separation, allowing Orb and Blizzard at the same time.
And now, with one single item, Cold Sorc not only breaks immunity, but can do full damage.
It can’t.
@@nicolasbascunan4013 how on earth it cant if tou have -195 cold mastery? Or -170 and infinity?
He believed he was going to make a straight line and so he could. Science
Lol sometimes planning a video out before just winging it might be a good idea. This was such a confusing explanation of how resistances work.
I read an interesting twitch comment the other day that suggested a reward system for collecting unique and set items similar to Holy Grail. The idea was that after collecting all set items your character glows green. After all unique, red.
I think this idea of cosmetic progression is an ideal reward for all players in d2r.
It creates a true sense of progression even through the early game when you find unique items that would otherwise just be left on the ground.
I hope that blizzard will reward and recognize players that choose to explore and progress through their games with extensive hours of gameplay rather than cater to those who spend thousands on micro-transactions.
No. This isn't D3. Next you'll want xmog.
Most people just buy their shit off of JSP, or save edit. You're high if you think these dudes farm for their shit. Most of these guys are like Asmongold, and just sit there and let an army of simps do all their farming. Getting tired of the whole, "I played this game for 10,000 hours. Everything is too easy. Nerf everything" that all these game streamers spew out. If they want to stroke their ego and reappropriate somebody else's IP, the can develop one. The concept, that these absolutely useless people, can take somebody else's thing and ruin it after the made a living off of it...is insane.
I think the idea with the original D2 characters being not all-powerful was because they were meant to be played together in multiplayer so they could cover each others' weakness, but since D2 has long past its heyday and lets face it, most of the people who play D2R is playing with strangers so they don't coordinate their builds with random people on the internet or they just play singleplayer. Every aspect of D2 is well documented so people don't try inferior skills or try niche builds nowadays. I mean does anyone play paladin as a healer?
the game is too easy with a full party
Plenty of people play offline single player as well..
lol
yup. When it's too easy the entire game loses purpose. It no longer feels like you're fighting demons... it essentially becomes a clicker game.
@Cagri Caglayan yes, people do use redemption aura
I'm hyped to grind out a godly fire sorc. Phoenix, flickering flame & infinity Merc will be absolutely nuts. With a 30/30 6x fire facet sword you can get up to -163 enemy fire res. On maxroll planner, I got that build to 89k DPS fireball & 110k DPS meteor
@@ElCoco1984 why?
@@ElCoco1984 nah. Fire druid and trapsin are nuts too
you really need -163?
@@nicolasbascunan4013 yeah it gets basically every monster in the game to -100% and you're doing double your screen damage
I only play single player and would like to see this in the game for sp players. To many mobs gate keep sorc. I get that it’s OP but a lot of builds have ten broken for over a decade and require tons of gear and play time to reach. Make the charms rare and leave them be. Give people choices.
Wouldn't you say that there were probably much better solution than the sunder charms to make weaker builds more competitive?
I second this. Having it in single player would be amazing
@@Lonoty Yes, if you're going to mod single player, I suggest just upping the damage of unused skills. It'll be more work than enabling sunder charms, but ultimately you'll get actual build diversity as opposed to whatever this is now.
There are only 3 mobs that gatekeep a Bliz sorc in SP: NM De Seis, Hell Ancients, and Hell De Seis. and De Seis can be killed with a merc and static. With a decent hybrid build the entire game can be cleared in under 10 hours of play time Solo Self Found, especially in SP where you can abuse static maps and player count. If you really want to clear the entire game hybrid builds exist and allow for it, and have since day 1. I suggest FO/Hydra or Fireball with Bliz or Nova backup.
I can understand the argument that it takes understanding (and a bit of RNG) to get past some hurdles, but your posting on UA-cam on a LLama video and in his backlog he has step-by-step guilds on how to do it on multiple builds for every class.
If your comment is that every class should be able to do everything, there isn't a class that cant already do it with the right hybrid build.
If your comment is that every build should be able to do everything equally, I disagree, but that is the direction the devs are taking D2R so you will get your wish soon enough. though by the above logic everyone on ladder will be running Fireball Sorcs by November as the numbers are... intense...
I expect TZs to make their way to SP by February assuming A/B doesn't pull the plug on the D2R Program in favor of resources for D4 before then.
@@bobnewkirk7003 not everybody plays the game for the meta or researches the game to death. Iv played on and off since the original launch and found immunities added in lod as just plan annoying. I’d rather they never been in the game in the first place. I think every class should be able to clear everything just make some builds excel in specific areas. I don’t play online or compete so any of that is irrelevant to myself. It’s just my opinion regardless blizz is gonna do what they want.
Sunder Charms are one of my main reasons to come back to the game! Complaining about them makes no sense to me because they open up access to endgame content for endgame characters....
A lot of people in gaming communities complain no matter what happens.
13:10 can't help but feel Llama is flipping us the birdie here.
Here's the plain and simple: We don't want to see a fundamental change to how the game works, so these charms were added. Cold Sorc may go from previously being a high A-tier build to an S-tier build, but it's WAY MORE IMPORTANT that the DOZEN OTHER BUILDS that were B-tier and below are now competitive (basically A-tier). Sure, ONE already-good build got a buff, but so many others were buffed to a much larger degree, and that (to me) is far more important.
One of the things I like about D2 and Llama confirmed with several playthroughs, is that you can play with whatever build you want. Sure, some are more efficient than others, but they're all viable. Sunder charms makes them more efficient; not the same percentage for all builds, but they not break the game, and don't change core mechanics.
This is pretty much it. The good points are that you still have to earn the charms by farming them out, they have a nice little kiss/curse feature by also lowering your resistance, and if you wanted to play the game like before, you can still just slot in a +1 skill charm instead. This simply allows other builds to play the game in more than a few end game areas when you've earned it.
How are these charms not a "fundamental change to how the game works"? It's literally the biggest change since like 1.10
@@zanido9073 because the game, as we know it, will still be *fundamentally* the same, but allow for more build options? Surely you can see how this still retains the core design as opposed to, for example, outright removing immunities?
@@steet2 it's literally the same as outright removing immunities, there's just a small step in between.
You forgot about frenzy/WW barbs. Physical immunity is easy broken with follower.
@@dangerdowell9925 Barb are getting the short end of the stick here. Very low damage and terror zones wont matter that much to them as they were pretty much just farming Travs or Pits. The sunder charms brings the physical immunities to 95%. Which mean you will be doing 5% of your damage to that monster. With the new patch a reapers toll would bring the monster to 45% PI and you would do 11x more dmg than what you are suggesting, making the reapers toll even more viable. And reapers toll was already very good for all the monsters that had no physical immunities, such as boss (diablo, baal) where its pretty much needed if you are running p5+ games.
I'm more concerned with the fact that, by proxy, Sunder Charms made Act 2 mercs the only viable pick once again. After a patch that buffed act 1, 3 and 5 mercs, no less. Here's why.
Infinity and Reaper's Toll, both are only usable by Act 2 mercs, are making huge difference in DPS. With right Sunder Charms, not only immunities of monsters are lowered to 95% resistance by default, Infiinity lowers elemental resistance by additional 85%, which gives 10% resistance. Likewise with a Reaper's Toll, you can get 100% physical resistant monster to 45% easily. In both cases, that also applies to monsters who's resistances couldn't be brough down below 100%, or barely below that. Act 1, 3 and 5 Mercs are not useless in endgame again.
Well, there is stil Lawbrigner for the act5 merc, but I get what you mean. You are right.
Sunder Charms undid basically all the work they did for the previous balance passes. The new meta will be Fireball > Java > PNecro> Fissure > Hammer > Zerk > Trapsin, which save how broken fire is now, are the exact same meta builds that came out of D2L. Though you are able to play ZooDruid, Nova, bladesin or bone necro, They will be strictly less effective than the above builds.
In short, we all have the option to take the long way to the restroom but when the time comes you bet we are going straight there.
If you use sunder to break the immunity infinity only gets 20% of the value, so its like -17% res. Its not that big of a deal.
I feel like this will bring about more types of builds. For the first time I’m actually thinking of building something other than a hammerdin to start ladder. I’m happy to see some changes. Hopefully next ladder they give another RW with teleport to switch things up.
You so sure you will get Sunder charm?
@@wizinjsh either from jsp or self found yes. Either way I won’t start with hammerdin this season. I’ll likely start with barb using item find on elite packs gives me 2x chance to find sunder charms/hrs/gear. I also think the physical sunder charm will be cheapest
The Cold Sorc feels too OP to me when sundered charms are introduced because Cold immunity is inherently one of the most common in the game together with Fire. The premise is that they now do bonus damage if the enemies have their resistances go down to the negatives, all with only having enough skill points alone. Then I realized that sundered charms are only available on Terror Zones and it appears to be a very rare drop, so by that time that same Cold Sorc might already have the resources needed and properly gear up herself and her mercenary if they decide to farm or trade for one, which is already near her peak potential.
3:10 🤔 "You understand what I'm saying." 🤣🤣🤣
The fact that you have to make this means she is
Notes: This was filmed before sunder charms rolled a % on their resistances. Now they roll from 70 to 90% negative resistance for your character instead of a flat 75%
Wasnt it 70-100?
@@grmigrim9834 No. It's 70% - 90%
@@artifactdota6462 alright^^
so the new charm is deduct enemies' 70 -90 resist now ?
@@香噴噴-p6f No, the resistance your character loses when wearing the charm is a range now. Depending on what element the charm is there are different things you lese. The cold charm can now roll -70 to 90 res for you own character.
I think what people are arguing is that Cold Charm is OP since its the only item you need with a Cold Sorc to bring every mob down to -100 while the other builds are stuck with 95 Res Monsters and need expensive items to bring down. I still love the charms though.
Now i wonder, is the Cold Sorc the best to start with? Remember, these charms seem to be as rare or more than a Gheeds and need to be farmed on TZ, i think a character that can farm the fastest with the less immunes on those zones will be the best starter no?
Well Yes, but albo other elementy have muuuch more dmg, 20k blizzard? Sweet tak with my 60k dmg fire Ball... oh monster have 95 fire immune? Nah these 5% of my dmg is still enough
There is another point on why cold sorc seem op on paper: its very cheap to build, like once you get the cold sunder charm that's it, no need infinity, no need enigma, just level the char to 80+ and then you got a char where can farm anywhere in the game. (btw it will be for sure be my first s2 char lol)
PS: poison necro sounds very powerful now too, due having lower resist, but again, you need enigma so it will be a bit more expensive anyways
I can't believe he is fine with the cold sunder charm and cold mastery. Being able to clear all content with only 1 item at p8 is stupid.
Ya all act like this is 100% drop and not random. Unless you are dork who does nothing else but play Diablo all day long, chances are you will most likely never even get these charms. I have more issue with couple of overpowered runewords that make about 95% of uniques and set items completely pointless.
Playing D2 "classic" mode was actually kinda refreshing and reminded me how tough can Hell actually be.
@@J.J.Jameson_of_Daily_Bugle If you play 2-3hrs a day the most and trade you will have it within a few days.
I think the big difference between having a light sorc with infinity or a hammerdin with enigma being so powerful is that those characters weren't being played as first characters (hammerdin to an extent, but in party play usually). you can take a blizz sorc at 24 and never deviate from it until you have that sunder charm and now with a single character playing by itself you have an end game wrecking machine.
can you level a light sorc, walk it into a hell terror zone with minimal gear? not really. but you can do that with a cold sorc and walk out with everything you need to farm anywhere in the game.
Those complainers are just "non-Sorceress" players who are *mad and jealous* that their own character builds can't match the Cold Sorceress builds.
Glad the developers didn't touch "Cold Mastery" and I hope it stays the same forever (so deal with it, haters).
Mr. Llama, I thought we learned our lessons on making straight lines in paint :D
The way I look at it is the Meta builds are getting a slight buff but that's completely out weighted by the buffs to all of the non meta characters. I don't think all of the classes should all be just as strong but I don't think only having three classes actually be good and the rest being sub optimal is good game design either. There needs to be more balance. I also think the game should be made harder overall but in other ways. Because resistances really only made the game hard for characters that weren't sorcs or hammerdins. Or Melee characters of course who need a buff for sure despite that.
Take a shot every time he says "right"... I dare you..
To build on your ending notes:
The problem aren't Sunder Charms, the problem is that there's no real reason to build a strong PvE character:
Last ladder, I thought of a hybrid kicksin that could do all content well. I did some theorycrafting, compared to a few guides, then finally built her.
She was fun to play and performed quite well, but with 0 MF, she was worse at farming than my mediocre Orb/Hydrasorc, who could also do all content with more MF. If you plan on planning and farming a lot, you could also invest into meta farming builds like Hammerdins, Pitzerkers and Lightning Sorcs (with Infinity), which make other builds even more pointless for farming.
I now have a terribly equipped Orb/ES sorc able to clear all content thanks to cold sunder... which is the same end result, I just got there sooner.
So I would say the root of the problem are not sunder charms but MF and lack of higher-end challenges.
Whether MF needs to be scrapped completely or more evenly distributed between items is a separate discussion, as is implementing extra challenges without going the full "running on a treadmill with gradually increasing numbers" way that is D3's current endgame.
Thanks for deep diving into the Cold Mastery, super valuable info! I'm on the fence with Sunder Charms, personally I like having the challenge/knowledge of needing to know what areas have what types of Immunities and what character I can use in that zone. That said, probably my most used characters are still the Blizzard Sorc & Hammerdin, and I am interested to see how Sunder Charms mix up my gameplay. I personally build different types of characters to still play around and use them for clearing different areas, but I am interested to see how it feels down the road and see if we all still just gravitate to playing Blizzard Sorc & Hammerdins.
I use orb and hydra before the sundered charms we introduced I still use that combo and able to farm just about anywhere
Love the handlebar/fu man chu. Keep rocking it
I think there is another part of the equation that made people think about it as making Cold Sorceress much stronger.
Namely: not every 85 area is created equal.
I may be wrong about it but Chaos Sanctuary and Worldstone Keep were always considered THE ultimate endgame areas. I am not talking about the number of uniques and whatnot but the sheer difficulty of those monsters. They are tougher, most of the time more dangerous, more durable.
Creating an endgame Cold Sorceress limits you to the Tunnels which is considered an extremely easy 85 area - monsters are slow, they explode from one or two Blizzards, you can mindlessly farm it and almost never be in danger.
In Chaos one wrong teleport or combination of enchantments on monsters can kill you. Same with WK. That's why people start with Cold Sorc and as soon as they get Infinity, a switch to Light Sorc is considered an "upgrade". It's not really because you can farm everywhere (but that also) but more because you can farm *there*.
So Cold Sorc suddenly being able to clear Chaos just like Light sorc is perceived a bigger buff than it actually is, simply by the virtue of Chaos' reputation.
that's because farming chaos is objectively better than farming tunnels.
And just so much more fun
You could farm mindlessly because these monsters dropped to -100 cold res. Now WK mobs will drop to -100 so you can mindlessly farm them as well. Yaay
@@Roadrunner_KZSK Not exactly true. WK plays a lot faster due to more dangerous mobs. Witches with their physical attacks, stygian dollls on the final level, souls - even at -100 there is simply no comparison to the chill atmosphere of slow zombies and skeletons in the Tunnels.
Even Pit is much more dangerous then the tunnels because you can roll extra strong aura enchanted Archers with something like multishot that will absolutely obliterate you if you are not careful.
The discussion is not how cold sorcs compare to other builds when completely decked out. We are talking early ladder... and the gap between cold sorcs and other characters was already pretty massive and it only grew wider with the introduction of the sunder charm.
What other build can farm every single terror zone even remotely as effective as a cold sorc without a single high rune? The answer is none. Hammerdins needs enigma and other builds needs enigma and infinity. You break an immunity in shit gear on a fire or lightning character you're only doing 5% damage... not exactly worth it, you're better off farming something else until a new terror zone gets chosen.
The key here is that you need the charm to farm that way. Personally I'm looking at Nova to start as ES is safe and a LR wand will break immune uniques that bliz would likely have to skip. I may even roll Trapsin or Summons Nec for the same reason. If Cold Sunder charms are rare I predict we are going to have a ton of sorcs struggling in TZs early on.
just a bunch of paladin players hating on more diversity creeping into a 22 year old game! you've had your time in the sun. it's our turn now!
Its simple. Sunder charms give cold sorc advantage prior to obtaining infinity. After, its the same ammount of skill points. Prior to infinity with sunder charms cold sorc able to lower monster resist with cold mastery. Once infinity and lower resist gear is obtained, respec into fire , lightning or cold sorc with less points into cold mastery and more into synergies. I dont see an issue here... basically with cold sorc you will have opportunity to farm for hear any area you want. Once gear obtained, respect into what ever you want
İt is simple, hammerdins have advantage prior to sunder charms and sell those shiny charm that cold sorcs maybe be able afford
And to farms those charms you have to farm TZ, and to maximize the chance you can kill every unique pack in a TZ i think it may be better to start with a Hammerdin rather than a Cold Sorc no?
Cold sorc already hitted hard all the act bosses (but didn't oneshot them) and won't hit them any harder with sunder.
Like... one of the main farming points.
Personally, I play right now FO+Hydra and CS isn't much of a problem except Lord De Sies or any other enemy with immune to both cold and fire roll. But I have a merc for that.
Baal is also farmable with that build.
I also hate Blizzard (skill, not company) and love Frozen Orb. It's cool and handy when Blizzard is just very unwiedly with it's zone damage over time.
A bit of quality of life would be nice to be sure.
And yes, lightsorc with infinity exists.
Fister Paladin is now also exceptionally good for farming anything.
(I also hate MC Hammer and consider blessed hammer too unwieldy)
as a person who always starts ladder with a blizz sorc, i think the main pain points sunder removes are: lord de seis for CS, nilathak and his minions, and baal wave 2. it’s a make or break for me - i can’t farm those areas with my early gear cuz i feel it’s too unreliable/slow to wait for my merc, but now hopefully i’ll be able to!
Immunities were a lazy way to artificially add difficulty and promote team play, along with MF and No Drop %, what they should have done is mimick what the players resist already does, cap it, but give it larger buffers that make it harder to break, want to make cold "immune" hard for a blizz sorc? give them 275% cold resist, that functions as a 95% damage reduction cap, but to get it to drop below 95% resistance you need cold mastery and rainbow facets etc that are trade offs for other gear pieces to break immune, these sunder charms just make it easy mode by capping it at 95% resist with no buffer for the monster, and creating a different trade-off, they're dumb, but at least it's SOMETHING to break immunities for anyone who isn't a paladin, or the few that Infinity break
EDIT: What I mean by a buffer is, you are capped at 75% for say fire, but with Hell you have a -100 in LoD/Expansion, so to get that 75% you need minimum 175% resist to Fire, but if you get cursed, you're back down below 75%, so you would want to stack to lets say 225% Fire Resist, so even with the -100 for Hell, and a curse of -50%, you still have your cap 75% resist. Monsters should work the same way, Cold Mastery SHOULD break cold immunes, no sunder charm needed, and the trade-off is more investment in Cold Mastery vs other skills. Sunder Charms are a lazy "fix", monsters should never be above 95%, even with NO way to break immune, doing SOME damage would make sense, there should be a physical component to Frozen Orb smacking a monster, etc, a skill rework would have been way better and sundering all mobs and tweaking resistance values would have been a much more elegant solution.
The "OP" part is that Cold Sorcs will be able to bring cold immunes to negative resistance with pretty cheap gear (Shako, Vipermagi etc). No other build in the game will be able to compete in that mid game scenario before you get things like Enigma or Infinity.
we don't know the prices of Sunders, and i can guess cold ones will be expensive
@@guillem1985 True. But the fact that the negative resistances on the charms are variable maybe indicates that they wont be too rare.
@Kasper
Not true if they're following vanilla "logic"... many TC87 items with variable stats like Dweb or Griffon...
It being cheap or not isn’t very important; infinity doesn’t break most cold immune monsters while it does for other types, so sunder actually balances things out, on the contrary
MacroBioBoi made a video (title: This is Why You're Wrong About Cold Sorceress Sunder Charm) comparing the benefit of the sunder charms for a cold, a lightning and a fire sorceress.
Fire and lightning dish out far more damage, despite resistances not being at -100%.
And their damage improves against creatures they could break already immensely.
Also, cold sorceress will either need to invest more skillpoints into cold mastery, or need an infinity, to bring the sundered cold immunes down to -100% resistances.
So, pre-infinity their damage will drop, so they can get the sundered immunes to -100%, so less points in synergies. Or they will not invest more into cold mastery, and previously cold immunes will be just barely in the negatives (if at all).
Another thing that people might be failing to consider: these sunder charms may be critical in setting up for whatever Blizzard devs are planning to do next. Here's hoping. :)
Well they are already critical for TZ, without Sunder Charms you risk having a streak of random TZs that suck to farm for your current build.
"no incentive" to create more characters? that's kind of the point, no?
-> they created the sunder charms for normal people like me to sink my teeth into one char, find that charm and then FINALLY have ALL THE MAPS to farm to lvl99...
-> -> which again is why they added the terrorized zone...
just my 2 cents
I want lower resist to lower magic resistance for bone spear, AND up bone spear’s damage as well
The people freaking out over this are just the ones that are completely against changes in D2. We dont even know how common these charms will be, chances are they will be a pain in the ass to farm for and as such will be wildly expensive to trade for, most people probably wont even get a chance to use them, especially through ladder seasons, and to top it all off, its not going to affect you if other people are enjoying using them so just dont use them if you dont like them, problem solved.
So hammerdin yeah, exactly. I was literally thinking this and typing it out and you said it. Lol
i think i'd be less hesitant about them if it had "terrorized monsters.." at the beginning. we'll just have to wait and see i guess
I think they made the balance pretty good with the charms, yes you can kill that immune mob now - but you lose a massive amount of that resistance so you can be killed easier (in theory). So they make it give and take. I don’t see this stopping other character grinds, if anything I can increase them as they can farm with a main toons for sub toons easier.
I think you are misrepresenting the primary argument for why this is specifically broken in the case of cold. With a sunder charm, fire sorc hitting fire immunes goes from doing 0% dmg (immune) to doing 5% dmg (sunder sets res at 95% instead of immune), but cold goes from 0% dmg to 200% dmg for the exact reason you outline here. But also, cold sorc already requires the least gear in the game to be super effective at farming, so now they require the least gear to get started, then once they get a sunder charm, they can do literally anything at no cost and no risk and they are better at it than any other build. Saying light sorc and hammerdin could already do that is missing a rather large part of the argument because even though yes, light sorc and hammerdin could clear any mob, cold sorc already was by far the most common build, and this is objectively a larger buff for cold than any other element.
not to mention the mechanics of blizz/orb vs the mechanics of fireball meteor and chain lightning mean that ur clearing places way faster. the overreaction is warranted. 100%.
I don't necessarily disagree. I'm very lukewarm on the whole sunder charm/TZ idea. But the problem is that we don't know how rare these things are gonna be. Everyone on both sides is assuming you're gonna have them basically from the start, maybe cos in PTR they just gave them to us. You're talking about having low level gear, so by implication, you're assuming you can get a sunder charm early, but maybe they will be as rare enough that you are likely to already have late game gear by the time you get one and you might have a tonne of -enemy res in other elements at that point. I, for one, hope that that is the case, but we don't know and I think that's a major oversight by the devs in trying to gather feedback on this... The drop odds are pretty critical to how game-breaking they will be....
True, but there's also a counter-argument for that. After getting infinity, light (and now fire) sorc are WAY better than cold sorc because their damage is much higher. This is the same dynamic that already existed - cold is better early game, but as you attain gear and runes, other builds surpass it. Sure it has -res, but it doesn't have nearly the damage output (even being doubled due to -100% monster res) of lightning or fire late-game. MacroBioBoi has a video on this, going over actual damage numbers. After seeing them, I'd say fire is gaining the most out of sunder charms being added, not cold.
@@ruthlesstoothless8577 They also have a high level requirement. You've likely finished the game by the time you're getting to use them, and you're just working to optimize.
I don't think this necessarily changes much though. The sorc progression is still: low gear = dual element build or blizzard, better gear = blizzard is most efficient but other builds exist, best gear = lightning sorc. But now this opens up the best geared builds to allow for fire, lightning, and cold. This really doesn't change much on the lower gear ends tbh.
Tbh. I've always hated mechanic of immune on monsters. Just cheap way to harden game.
I actually really like it. It reduces the proverbial cost to play. You can also play anything you want and even get creative if you want about special builds and it actually be viable and fun. I love the idea that I can use a pure cold sorc and can do everything.
You don't get it. In the past you could've had a character that can do anything, but usually at a cost of Jah Ber Ber+ (you'll need infinity to break immunities, coh and andies, so the merc doesn't die, probably enigma if you're not a sorc, something along those lines). Current cold sorc is that character at the cost of one sunder charm + maybe a pul (probably less), which is WAY less unique than Jah Ber Ber+. Cold sorc is basically LFR of Diablo 2 now.
It totally depends on how common the charms are. If the charms are common, then the issue is pre-enigma and pre-infinity, which is the entire game for the vast majority of players. Previously, you could farm everywhere with a hammerdin, but it couldn't teleport. Alternatively, you could play a sorc and teleport but you had limited options. Now, with a single commonly found charm, all areas are open to the sorc and also they can teleport.
if the cold sunder charm really is as good as people think, and it's rare enough, surely its value will reflect that no?
There are many ways to lower res for fire and light without infinity. flicking flame, crescent moon, plague, even with enemies that have 50 res a massive + skill damage build can and will compete with cold. Also cold sorcs have a hard cap for damage other builds are going to crush the game at end game gear way better.
Hi all! What’s the best way to get an infinite, or larger stash in D2R?
I’ve tried the Expanded Inventory/Stash mod, but it seems a bit cheap with how large it makes your inventory, and it’s quite buggy as well. I’ve seen a few people talk about GoMule, but not sure if that’s the best route either. I know that PlugY doesn’t work in D2R either.
Any other suggestions?
NOTE: I’m a single-player only player. I never play online, so mules aren’t really an option.
Mules are an option because you have 3 shared stash tabs in d2r and you can easily transfer items between characters with zero mods. Yes in single player.
I like the concept of what sundered charms do in allowing for more build diversity amongst elemental damage dealers, but I don't like being reliant on grand charms cluttering up my inventory for optimal builds.
I was never a big fan of charms to begin with. They've just become empty space fillers for endgame characters who no longer care about farming the actual equipment in the game because they have most of the best drops so now all they have to look forward to are charms to hoard in their already limited inventories.
I think the original developers ran out of interesting ideas for new expansion items so they threw charms in the game without thinking about how they detrimentally impact the whole point of PvE in D2, which is to find exciting loot for new characters and builds. They've become a ball and chain: You're damned if you endulge in them because they make managing new loot drops a chore, and damned if you don't in terms of competing with other players.
Thats why i think we need a Charm Inventory. Something like what the PD2 mod did, you start with a bigger inventory and as you fill it with charms in the Charm only space you end up with the original inventory size. Its a perfect solution imo.
My problem is that I just don't think it's a *fun* solution. Letting all characters be one-skill-wonders and never needing to change skill is kind of a boring game design.
In Diablo 1, you essentially switched between Fireball and Chain Lightning, depending on which monster you were killing. It adds a bit of positioning and a little tactic involved, depending on which monster combination you got on the particular floor.
All these years I've wished for something similar for D2. Sorceresses wouldn't be confined to Ancient Tunnels until when they can break all immunities, and then suddenly they just kill the whole game with Lightning. Sorceresses would typically be dual-element, and alternate spell depending on what they were killing.
To anyone who is about to say "You can literally do that right now" - yeah but it's just not as good as just being a single-element Blizz sorc. Especially not with these new charms.
I think the whole immunity thing in D2 was done wrong from the start. The vision of single-skill sorceresses that are confined to areas based on which areas do not contain *any* immunities from which trees makes for a worse game to play than what could have been, in my opinion.
Dual-element sorc builds should have been *inherently stronger* than single-element, perhaps due to interesting cross-element synergies, perhaps due to cross-element masteries, but either way it should have been how sorceresses just were built. It would have made for a better game to play.
Sunder Charms will improve certain other characters in the game (or could have been solved by some other means for those characters, like a Druid Pelt that breaks fire immunities). But for Sorceresses, Sunder Charms will forever cement this single-element playstyle that I had hoped we'd get away from.
Being able farm new areas is a boon, but the main buff, to me, is that Cold Sorc actually has more options for her merc. At level 36 Cold Mastery she has -195% cold resist(need less skill points if you have nightwing or facets), so she can drop enemies to -100% without infinity while Fire and Light sorc still want infinity. She actually has room to run more unique merc builds.
Where do you usually cap your hard points on cold mastery with Sunder now ?
Like 10 hard points ?
They should add -3 to all skills to sunder or make it exclusive with touch
Exclusive with the torch, you mean?
@@Lonoty you can carry only one charm at a time, sonder or torch. But it would still be OP.
Easy fix: if you don't break immunity by normal means, and instead need a charm, monster gets a "sundered" status - its immunity breaks and goes down to 80% resistance instead of current 95%, but with this status it can't go into negative values.
Also give physical/melee attackers some love, make attack rating like 20% less demanding to hit something, and maybe add something crazy like attack rating giving you up to like 50% physical resistance pierce.
You should include the "air date" on these things so people know how old they are lol. The sunder charms were updated a bit after this to roll res.
That would require some work though and llama is too lazy for that.
I think sunder charms are GREAT and always hated immunes. I love new changes to D2 as long as it keeps in the spirit and feels legit. Plus stacking ANOTHER 80 resist to get max resists is going to be pretty damn hard.
Hammerdin is OP because concentration aura has been bugged forever. For Lighning u need Infinity, which is a very high rune investment. No casual player will ever have an infinity.
The cold sunder charm will make something like a blizzard sorc OP. If she puts just a few more points in CM there wont be any difference between a cold immune and any other monster.
I think u should maybe put a cap into Monsters with broken immunities. So no matter which immunity the monster had, that it would at least still be resistant to that element.
For example the sunder charm breaks it down to 95 % but it could never be less than 75 %.
That way you could still break immunes but keep their characteristics. I think it makes sense that some cold immune monster in the crystalline passage or so should still be a hard one to kill with cold damage. Or a ghost in the arcane sanctuary should be hard to kill with phys damage.
It shouldn't be impossible to kill immunes, but it should be challenging. If a monster had like 150% CR before, u shouldnt be able to bring it down to -100. The Monster has to keep at least some of its uniqueness (if this is a word. ).
So you’re saying fix the bug of concentration! 🎉
@@raulsanchez543 that too, they really should fix that. But I was mainly mentioning the Hdin because Mr. Llama mentioned it in comparison to the cold sorc.
The other weird thing about the complaints with sunder charms is that by the time you get them, you've already finished the game. They are only relevant for going to 99 or holy grail.
i’m not sure i intend to go for 99 or grail, but i do enjoy the post hell baal grind for gear, which starts roughly around 80. i feel like that’s where the game rly begins for me.. and i feel that sunders will still be highly relevant for me despite not going for either of ur scenarios
d2jsp say hi
I don't think they are that rare to confine them strictly to end game
@@onurdagci It's less about the rarity, and more about the level restriction.
@@gaberielpendragon I acknowledge your point, but a lvl75 character isn't an end-game character at all. At lvl75, you'd barely have your mid-game equipment; if that...
So you have to take points from some skills (probably from synergies too) to get higher level cold mastery which doesnt help you against fire/lightning etc immune monsters because they already were at -100% cold
I think ill be fine with regular level of cold mastery and spent the extra 1 second fighting the "cold immune"
With decent gear you have enough points to get lvl36 CM and still max out every blizzard synergy, so there isn't any trade-off to be made. Before that it just becomes a math problem based on which areas you are farming
Can you maybe make an updated video for this?
This is how I think it should be, if you come up against a monster with lighting resistant, it should take you longer to break the resistance, seeing as we can’t have 100%, they shouldn’t have 100% or more in the game, that should be the same for any resistance you come across, if your running fire and come across a fire resistance monster should take you longer, same with lightning, cold, magic, stone skin
As a casual d2r player, I absolutely love sunder charms, cold specifically. I hated not being able to deal with immunities unless I had a super expensive merc. Ive never even seen a ber drop personally, but I had help getting a sunder charm and soloed most of my way thru hell without a merc. The try hard elitests will say they are bad for the game, but they can take their hammers and sit on them
whats the average lvl you get on cold mastery? cuz lvl20 gives -115% res and any further lvl gives -5% ..... if a monster is cold immune + sunder charm -> now it has 95% res ... to bring it down to -100% res u would need to have cold mastery *level 36* (-195%) since +95 - 195 = -100, but i guess llama was only generally speaking for simplification. _Since the sunder charm does only affect monsters WITH a immunity, it does not change the damage to any other monster, she will now simply be able to damage even those from whom she ran away earlier._
A better way to explain is that a fire Sorc with a sunder charm and maxed skill tree would do 5% (-95%) * (fire passive +300%) or 15% total damage as fire damage while the Cold Sorc would do 5% (95%) + (Cold passive 135%) or 140% of total damage as cold damage, a difference of 125% of damage difference from the max of those two elements or almost a 10 times difference from dealing 15% to 140%.
Add infinity, tals bonus, flickering flame, etc. to the fire sorc and your point becomes irrelevant. A fire sorc with sunder charms can bring monsters to negative resist AND their raw damage increase scales better.
@@R3yHDz My point is just to show a raw comparison without gear. Did you make up an argument in your head?
Agree with statement that sunder introduction just brings some builds closer to hammerdins/lightning sorcs/javazons that could already do all the content. I think a lot of people have problem with Cold Sorc "being OP" bcs you immediately break immunity to -100 without need of any other gear on top of the charm. With ligtning you need to wait for Infinity to kick in and then have griffon and preferably other good stuff to kill immune monsters at decent speed. Cold sorc gets it for free which makes this class strongest beneficiary of sunder charms.
True, light sorc needs infinity to reach its peak dmg; but light dmg > cold dmg. So while more expensive, it is also a stronger build. So it is not like you are spending the cost of infinity to arrive where cold sorc was already at. -100 cold res * cold dmg isn't the same as -100 light res * light dmg
With the amount of cold immunes, the sorc doesn't really have a leg up on anybody. Even without the charms my orb/hydra sorc has no problem clearing any areas. Nithilaks corpse explosion and burning souls are the only thing to be careful around.
Blizzard sorc is the only character that combines budget gear, teleport, and can go anywhere on the game. (Assuming sunder charms aren’t too hard to get)
Hammerdin isn’t nearly as fun without Enigma and infinity and all support skills gear is also costly.
Only thing it’s not great at is Ubers.
It’s hard to beat for ladder start and as a character to feed gear into other characters.
The issue is that it allows you to have the benefits of a hammerdin without any expensive items. (and no, I don't consider a non-enigma hammerdin to be viable, bhammer is a ridiculously clunky skill)
It would be like if they changed infinity to be Ort Fal Ort Lum. Everyone and their mom would be playing light sorc.
I hope they make it so facet and -res gear works on Traps minions etc.
I'm pretty excited to see the economy this season.
Light sorc and Hammerdin.
Where the Javazon at.
KEKW.
and still have never seen this charm drop lol
Good, Frozen Orb sorc is my favorite.
Not new to D2 BUT new to runewords and beating hell my first time with your help. I have a hammerdin to farm chaos but wish I could play my sorc so I could be lvling her instead. With sunder charms I can now farm everywhere with my cold sorc aiming for my first 99 ! Wish they had them available in offline mode thou
i dont think sundered charms will be in non ladder so your character will be a non laddder character after this season is over
Yeah but it depends on one thing: IF a cold sorc was to deal 100 damage, and a monster has -100% cold res, does the monster take 200 damage or still only 100? And furthermore, the cold sorc doesn't need to fill it's equipment like other masteries with -Res and can focus on skillers or MF. She IS OP with this comparatively, even more so if she deals double damage at -100 cold res.
the entire statement is a run on sentence. yes. -100% is equal to double face damage. you actually used the word. furthermore. hahahahahahaha. date a girl
@@game_jinx I'm not really sure what you're trying to accomplish by making fun of my sentence, only to go on with some of your own terrible sentence structure in doing so. FURTHERMORE, maybe you should try and gain some intelligence so a girl might consider dating you. Grow up kid.
@@game_jinx This is D2. Most of us are grandpas by now...
While all that is true, the point is nothing has changed; this was already the case. It is just that her farming zone has become larger (basically all areas)
I played the Blizzard sorc using the new Sunder Charm on the PTR. I ran Mephisto a few times. I used Static to reduce him to 50% health. I casted ONE SINGLE Blizzard and Mephisto died every time. That's a little ridiculous.
They really should just take cold and do the same they did with Light and Fire to balance this. Take cold mastery increase cold damage.
Its difficult, targeted farming and having multiple characters that excel at different things is cool. But because hammerdins exist I think it was the only way, or maybe they could've include more unbreakable magic immunes instead :P
Or they could... just reduce the late game hammer damage by 40% (see bone necro). IF you want incredible versatility of damage - make it come at a cost of kill speed.
This is why Blizzard sorc IS IMBA:
Lets compare her with some other S tier characters like Light sorc and blessed hammer paladin.
With the new charms, for Blizard Sorc every enemy on the map stands at -100 cold ressists.
For hammerdin every enemy will have their base ressistances BUT hammerdin needs enigma to clear as fast as a sorc
For Light sorc with the new charms , lightning immune enemies will now have at best -25 light ressistances BUT Light sorc needs an infinity
So Blizzard sorc can do the same and in many cases better job at a price of an enigma or an infinity cheaper than the other 2.
I remember when Llama was celebrating the nerf he thought they were going to slap on hammerdin to balance the game. It's great seeing him, and all the other diablo 2 elitists, panic about what they are actually going to do instead. I trust the D2R devs more than the elitists.
I’m excited to be able to play pure frozen orb or pure blizzard. I always did meteorb sorc, smiter/hammerdin.
Hype new charms, I think people forget monsters didn’t always have immunities until 1.10? And 1.09 was considered peak D2 IMO and others.
I agree 09 was great and there were almost no immunes back then.
Mr. Lamma - I have to disagree on a few points. I created a cold source and. After maxing everything out I still had points for light nova. So if my merc doesn’t kill, I can kill with light nova. So Baal is super easy for me. Kill the main with blizzard and the kill the skeletons with light nova. It’s simple and fast and then the rest with blizzard. So just for Baal runs I would think I need a sunder charm.
so with this cold sorc can farm every terror zone and get to 99 soon. it's OP and open for more build.
It make the game more solofarm (easy) and now why we play multiplayer?
Just delet imunes
-nerf hammerdind no concentartion aura
-nerf infinty lvl12 to lvl5
-nerf coldmastery from 5% to 1%
-nerf lifetap 50% to 5%
-buff attackrating for melees
-buff support skills
and then we have a nice multiplayer game
Now if using a melee merc.. is it worth having a physical sundering charm.. as well as a cold?. Or does it apply? 🤔
Some one tutor this poor man how to use Microsoft excel. Making charts in paint had me dying
Yeah. The charms bring more diverse build options.
oh so what this means is you don't need as many skill points in cold mastery..then more points for.. something else?
Also, Sundercharms are still very end game, you still need to go farm it(or trade it I guess?...), and hope to get lucky with the zones that fits your cold sorc, as well as rolling the unique charm, and rolling the right unique charm, without having to constantly respec your char every hour...
The elephant in the room is that immunities are stupid and never should have been added. The fire element has been nearly useless since immunities were added.
All this change is doing is adding another build that requires basically no gear and can plow the entire game like hammerdin. Is this a good change? Hard to say. Cool that fire sorc now has more playability, but will I pick that over cold that now has no resistance from any monster in the game? No, probably not.
Good argument, do you know when they'll drop the charms ?
teleport, e shield, point investment, especially for HC, FOrb is far more targetable an hammer in many situations....
Ive been playing D2 since day 1 it came out. I have ALWAYS hated immunes. like 90 or 80% immune would be enough of a tight spot, especially for melee, but fully immune screws alot of builds in alot of areas. That being said, I havnt played since the sunder went live. So i will have to see how it is now.
I think the issue is at equal mf gear, like 3-4pc tals set (3 for cold, 4 for light or fire), the Cold sorc can kill their immunes faster with sunder charms.
Once gear is getting better at end-game level gear. They are around the same.
And there is nothing wrong with that. Different strengths at different investment/funding levels adds diversity, incentivizing different builds at varying stages. If every character/class/build progressed exactly the same, the game would get boring *way* faster, losing replayability.
@@P.E.E.K.S I agree, but the difference already there. I dont think it need to be accentuated.
@@P.E.E.K.S never said there was an actual problem. I said the issue, not everyone is going to go full ham on d2r. It’s the extreme casuals that are the majority voice that don’t understand the game mechanics and want everything to be ez mode.
Sunder charms break the game, it was the most group variation killing thing added to the game I have ever seen playing the game over 15 years. Even infinity is not as bad an offender because at least you have to find the runes.
guess with the new update to sunder charms + conviction and lower resist gives cold sorc the edge again
With the last patches is this still the same. There was something about CM working on 1/5 of it is power?
100%. I was destroying all hell content at 80 with no gear other than a -70 sunder, shako and occy.
Felt cheap tbh.
At the end of the day these terror zones and sundered charms just enhance the end game experience...
You can't access terror zones under you kill Baal in each difficulty...
You can't equip the sundered charm until you reach Level 75...
And we still don't know how hard it is going to be to find these Sundered charms in the terror zones....
Every sundered charm you find may not suit the build you want to make...
You may be levelling well into the 90s before you even found the charm you needed...
It will clearly still rely heavily on bnet trading and finding valueable items to trade for exactly what you need at high level...
I think Im more confused now.