You could already do it tho. There's a UA-cam channel "calefxd" - he showed it, you can get great loot from almost all hell areas. However with terror zones you're being hand held in what you should do, instead of choosing your own adventure
Terror Zones is just a mechanics to level faster, loot faster and as a bonus (by using Sunder as a band-aid to TZ system) - killing everything ignoring immunities. Basically everything that a casual D3 player ever wanted from D2.
@@Ubeogesh I still choose other areas that aren't terrorized that fit a build better. Last season for example I had a summon/fury druid and would go over to act 4 to clear it and a got a Jah rune. I think the main spots are still worth farming, but if you really wanna level up then you have an option now instead of requiring a 15 person operation who will setup shrines and diablo kills for you.
@@sixmillionsilencedaccounts3517 Totally agree abound sunder charms making gameplay D3-like (not sure if a real D3 player want this, i hope most of them fine with D2 immunes already as I know). Less decisions based on mosnters is bad. Eliminating 'i should avoid these' is bad.
I kind of hate immunities. I don't mind it on unique or magic monsters, but I don't like just have my progress completely haulted because I can't damage enemies with my primary skill.
Yup. Prior to sunder charms i always had my enjoyment of the game completely shut down. Whereas this run I'm finally able to progress and last night I crafted by first call to arms. Might not seem like much to people that played through before the charms but for me it was a huge achievement and I've been having a blast. Big difference between that and getting stuck/quitting the game
I Dnno, i was happy without immunities pre-Lod... in 1.06 .. ^ this is litterally turns the game into 1.06 for your build for me, also immunity did not offer a challenge they were just a hinderance you had to circumvent by recreating a game or running past em ~ @KabertaKneeGr0wCxntman
Only recently starting playing again after playing the original many years ago and I was having a great time until I reached act 3 in hell …… every single mob in the first zone is fast moving and lightning immune! It sucks so hard that if I didn’t already have a sunder charm ready to go in another 5 levels I would be seriously considering an uninstall. I managed all the previous by avoiding stuff but it’s just not possible here.
I love your content man. I listen to your guides about finding high runes, unique items, and character building. I have found 5 sur, 2 LO, 4 OHM, 1 VEX, 2 GUL, 6 MAL, AND 6 PUL RUNES. I never thought I'd get this far on single player. Working on building my offline tesladin. Keep up the great work.
I like immunites, but as long as there is a way for every build to break them. But, it also should have a cost, which the charms do with the minus to your resistance
As someone who can’t play a lot and doesn’t have higher-end gear. Playing pure fire sorc with w/dual spirit, I can’t even kill sundered fallens efficiently without the additional minus-enemy-fire-res gear. I don’t even use my sunder-charm at the moment. It’s been super fun grinding for those items and ABSOLUTELY LOVING Terror Zones. Thanks Llama.
Even with the fire sunder charm, Fire in general just still feels super weak in hell, especially (like always) in the Chaos Sanctuary, which many thought the charm would rectify. Sure, you can now "kill" there, but it takes ages even at higher levels.
@@Neonmirrorblack right, you need gg gear (flickering flame, phx shield, 6 fire facets, infinity) to be efficient there. Blozz sorc needs none of those. Thats why I think for budget specific builds this doesn't help diversity
That's why you play cold sorc. Cold mastery gives -cold res, fire and light mastery do not. Even with average gear, if you have the cold sunder charm it's very OP.
@@bane9685 What dedicated fire build reaches level 75 or completes all content w/out GG gear? Can't personally think of one. So you either find the charm with a different character or build, while spending your life in A1/2 Hell running from immunes with your fire build until level 75. And then still need Infinity etc, assuming you don't borrow it from the character that found the charm. For players with low time or who play solo, Sunder Charms do not change anything: you still need the Blizz Sorc/H'din etc in your arsenal to "unlock" the endgame for your new characters to ... farm slower ... or something? Honestly not convinced Sunder Charms fixed diversity or the issues with melee; they mostly made builds with GG gear better cos you still need the GG gear if you're not a Cold Sorc. And if you still need the same GG gear anyway, then what was the point of breaking immunities?
I'm still grinding for a cold charm but I like them because it allows me to use my sorc in all areas of the game. The zones changing every hour is awesome because it incentivizes me to play new areas that I skipped before
You could use Sorc in any area before -- just had to go Light-Sorc and grind a lot for it because it was expensive. Or create the char offline in Hero Editor. I dislike the D2 community for being like you: Just want the game to be easy. I thought it was fun that you needed to create specialized chars for different areas before, until you got the gear / currency to be able to create a Light-Sorc. But whatever, have it your way, I'm not returning to Bnet. Single Player is very fun to me as well, thank god.
@@gowanlock That's like asking "why do you need a hard mode in video games? you can just choose to miss half of your shots" Before, it was a long grind before you got to play a godly character like Light-Sorc. (like, even Hdin has trouble in small spaces ... though he's OP for the cost of just Enigma, no question) Today it's far from being a grind to get a char that's as good as the Light-Sorc was before. Just get a Cold-Sorc, Sunder charm, and relatively cheap gear (not much beyond Occy, Shako, 35 Spirit) and you breeze through any Terror Zone / 85 area. On top of that, the Terror Zones Treasure Class upgrades makes obtaining items like Griffon's ridiculously easy now. If I were to decide to grind for a Light-Sorc the "old fashioned way" -- i.e. ignoring Terror Zones and Sunder charms -- I would just feel stupid compared to any of the other players going for a Cold Sorc now.
@@manso306 I agree with you, it should be difficult and expensive to use a character in every area. The point is, why only light sorc and hammerdins?? boring... That should be achievable with every char/build.
@@samorey4982 I would be totally ok with balance changes to make it more difficult for Hdin, and difficult but possible for other builds. Light Sorc felt just about right to me before Sunder charms. But Sunder Charms are a "solution" in the opposite direction... Light Sorc is even more OP (doesn't even need Infinity to be as good as before, or even stronger with Infy now). And Sunders drop way too often, and their penalties are incredibly easy to offset... Like Fire Sorc's BiS is definitely Flickering Flame, which by itself boosts Fire Res even more than the worst Sunder lowers it.
Orb sorc had been my favorite character since I first saw the flying ball shoot ice spikes in a baal game when I was 12. I love that it's finally use that character to farm my favorite areas.
I have to believe that within these first 2 seasons, the changes implemented just skyrocketed the Fire Druid's capability. With the talent/skill changes made in season 1, and Flickering Flame's introduction (especially in a GG pelt base), they already became very capable (I never got Infinity 1st season, but an Eth Reapers Toll works wonders for the Fire Druid's merc as well to help muscle through their physical damage). The Fire Sunder is the icing on the the cake, having the -Fire Res countered by Flickering Flame's Fire Aura... Fire Druid went from something I never thought of to an incredibly satisfying and complete feeling build.
After sunder u can use for example griffons and facets to bring enemy resistances to even lower. But wait, those DO NOT WORK WITH FREAKING ASSASSIN TRAPS!!!!!!
@@Malum95 except trapsin fighting immunes cannot kill the mobs therefore without sunders, theyre waiting for merc to just produce one corpse explosion that barely does 15% of pack of mobs. Most of trapsin's dmg comes ....traps. Necro CE works much better becos of amplify dmg.
Would physical charm be better if it made you ignore enemy armor and through that let you hit more often? That might be a reason to take the risk of the higher damage taken
@@honeybadger036 yeah that's what I meant, didn't explain that clearly though I mean a "ignores 35%-50% of enemy armor" kinda stat Might make melee charms better and fix a fundamental issue of melees in the game
my biggest takeaway from this is the lack of parity between element types. Light has easy access to Crescent Moon which at the cost of an Um gives -35. The closest parallel in fire is Flickering Flame and for the cost of a Vex we get up to -15%. Poison is in the same state short of Death's web and Bramble as the "midgame" option is 3pc trangs for -25 which eats up 2 extra gear slots. If the devs are trying to move more player power into gear then I think there is a real opportunity to give midgame options in the -30 range to all the elements. personally i feel poison really needs a look at as the builds are pretty marginal, and so long as poison sources cant stack on a target the dps ends up being pretty lackluster. I would like to see FF boosted to -30, and new runewords (or revised unique/runeword) for each of the other damage types including magic. In regard to cold mastery, I am ok with it being reduced to 50% or lower if it has some other benefit (ie added slows target, and/or +damage) and a new runeword in the -30 range that doesn't require a Jah to build. I like adding runewords to the helm slot as Shako is so compelling to so many builds that having the option to swap to for a more damage-centric helm seems like a good choice for the player to make. Alternatively we could look at adding diminishing returns on Cold mastery so it caps out at a more balanced level. in the same vein I personally feel like the diminishing returns on lower resist should be re-evaluated as CM And Conviction both offer -150 or more, while LR is capped to 65%. if all 3 were normalized to 120 it would give plenty of opportunity to chase the last -80 rez in gear without this inconsistent 1/5th rule.
the fact we have diminishing returns on certain things, but linear scaling on -cold res is mindblowing to me. Somebody had to be a cold sorc shill in the dev team.
Act 5 barb merc can work great to help with minus to enemy poison res. Pop on dual griefs on merc and there's minus 40 to minus 50 (rolls 20 to 25 negative enemy poison res) pair that with deaths web either on main or swap, and there is an instant minus 80 to minus 100 enemy poison res. Quick way to completely break all enemy poison res. Nobody remembers the minus poison res on grief as it's a fairly useless stat for the weapon, but can be great when utilized for the negative poison res, albeit not exactly a budget option
@@chrisdover636 i believe that -- rez only worked for the person equipping the item. Mercs running infinity don't offer extra light rez so the same should apply to Grief
I like your point about sundering immunities away still doesn't break away the uniqueness of monsters in the game. That's actually valid. Broken immunes still have pretty high resistances to those elements. However, the reason why sundering charms are bad is because they are impossible to balance around properly and would need additional items and mechanics to make them not imbalanced as they are now. They allow more builds to solo the rotating terror zone content, sure, but that was the whole point of making hybrid builds in the first place. Now, hybrid builds are less appealing than ever because these charms now exist.
Hybrid builds were always unfun to play and most people only ever played them out of necessity. Who wants to use their preferred skills with less efficiency because they had to spec into something else to get around niche situations?
@@Bowazon I have two level 88 barbarians, one I played pre-ladder and one I started with on first ladder-both I used to farm out dual griefs and fort. Your point also only goes along with what I said. People only play hybrid because they have to. Them no longer being necessary is not a loss.
@@Yepmyaccount well, that's just your preference that you like one element builds. To my point: there's a large player base that play bowazons or berserk barbs or spearazons or zeal paladins or fury druids that fell back on using another damage type for immunes. It was and is still the norm and despite being not able to blow physical immunes away quickly, we never complained about this mechanic because it has been part of the game for a long time and really there's nothing fundamentally wrong with having immunities... And is the reason why the synergy system was introduced alongside it: to give incentive to spec into single element builds if you so wished to create specialisation.
@@Bowazonin that case they should balance the sorceress hybrid build cause the best fire spell to use if your main is cold is firewall and you can imagine how annoying it is to depend on monsters to stand still.
I think sunder charms add a lot to the game for us plebs. I think they are a more interesting addition than say enigma, where every streamer has one on every toon and teleports so much that their characters legs have become atrophied.
I found the physical one to be worth using as a CE/Summoner (using a perf 10% one). You get some phys resist from Enigma and Shako to begin with. If you are really concerned about it you can slap on a verdungo instead of a Arach and hit the 75% FCR breakpoint using a hoto+spirit shield. Necros are a little more protected by their army and everything will always be cursed with Amp damage dropping a sundered mob to a reasonable level. But, I think physical sunder charms for other classes are probably meh and you really need decrep or amp with it.
The Terror zones opened up so many areas I would never farm before and to top it off you can get xp from it. Wonderful idea and I’ve been having so much fun. I always stop leveling at 95 and now I feel the urge to continue.
I feel like the same monsters that were dangerous before sunder charms, are still dangerous. Things like Stygian Dolls, Venom Lords, Gloams, Death Lord, etc are still ridiculous dangerous...
I don't want to see them break things that are challenging but manageable. I want to see them fix things that exist but are useless, like almost all of crafting. Sunder charms feel like a lazy hack to avoid needing to actually balance late game builds. For example, why not make a late game 3 socket Barb helm only runeword that breaks physical immunity as one of its modifiers? That would make 3 socket Barb helms with awesome skills insanely valuable AND deal with the physically immunity problem at the same time.
@@TommyV8898 Not really since it would break Immortal King set. It would force situational choice which D2 needs more of. I like D2 more when you have to use certain equipment for certain areas over a single best in slot collection that is always best no matter what. You could easily make this kind of runeword very bad at fighting anything other than physical immunes.
Honestly charms and immunites are not the problem here. It's the lack of "good" gear options. Basically every build needs the same runewords or uniques in order to be effective.
I think that 100% immunity to any damage type shouldn't exist in ARPG's, unless there's a sunder charm-like way to break that immunity. I do feel like the cold damage type needs some adjustment however, due to innate CC potential & cold mastery specifically.
I think Sunder charms just as OK as some of the "new" 1.1 runewords like Enigma or CtA in that they just make more different character types and builds more viable. The fact that there are some builds like hdins or zerker barbs where immunities really just dont matter makes me a lot more OK with sunder charms making the game smoother for some other builds that struggled in a lot of areas before.
As a javazon on a budget (no high runes) that lightning sunder charm hasn't done anything because the only additional sources of negative lightning res. are gated by being insanely expensive (griffons/infinity) and 95% res monsters are not easy to kill.
I also disagree on other characters gaining value from these charms... it's pretty much just the sorceress. Most other builds dont... your example of frost maiden isn't great considering they can build hybrid super easily and already had no problem dealing with these immunes. Most other builds, either can go dual dmg type, can go hybrid super easy or there are pretty much no immunes to their dmg type (physical +magic). Poison is the exception, but you said it yourself, considering the lack of gear and that poison jav and rabies druid dmg is on a too slow, the charms dont help much.
Why playing an hybrid bowazon that will struggle to kill a white mob?! Seriously that is why people were only playing hdin, if people don’t like sunder charms and want it removed , fine nerf hammerdin and bone/summon necro
@@DeathcoreHusky physical bowzon only. The elemental bowzons are fine. They might require alot of mana, but they are good dmg wise. A pure physical bowzon struggle alot that's right. I completed a SSF playthrough of a pure physical bowzon in patch 2.3 (before insight was available in bows and before all the buffs to multiple arrow, straffe and guided arrow) It was hard (harder than a SSF WW barb using maces only), but possible. Now it's incredibly easier. And it was hard only because I limited myself to only using physical skills. But it was my choice, I wanted a challenge so I chose this build. The elemental builds are super strong and easy to play.
I think Physical charm is okay for Throw Barb and Physical Bowazon? Both have chance to cast Amplify on hit (from Lacerator/Atmas) and with Sunder these physical immune mobs get oneshot once they get amplify on them (some of them didnt before, some even stayed physical immune with Amplify). Need testing for melees, because it might be not worth it to have decresed physical res for this bonus. As for Magic Sunder the only use is for Hammerdin solo Baal runs to kill second wave a bit faster? But how much faster is needed to be tested too. I would like buff for both of these charms because they seem to be meh compared to caster ones. I am saving all the charms for my Non-Ladder characters, but Physical I save only 10-13, cant be bothered taking even more damage when using them. On a side note I would love having fear chance removed from Lacerator so Throw Barb can be playable with it with low amount of gear.
the physical curses are a good point, they reduce physical resist. Good point. edit: a merc with the unique thresher goes big here. edit 2: maybe making the curses reduce magic resist as well as phys resist is the fix. There is already an overlap with hammers being buffed by concentration, so they are already related and can fix the magic charm.
For the physical sunder, bowazons would just use magic arrow. If she were working in a team that can reliably curse large groups of mobs quickly, then it could come in handy there too. Throw barbs can use it because they have lacerator and fury druids can main with Reaper's Toll as well.
Except they dont. Bowazon has very low dmg. Throw barb dmg is probably pretty low as well. In player 8 these two will struggle and mobs will regen faster than they can dmg the mobs. Sunder charm only helps with physical immunities. It does not increase dmg. It's not an "amplify" dmg sunder charm. That's not how sunder charm works. It just breaks the defense or resists. If you're a melee and the mob has "stone" modifier or physical immune, then sunder charm makes it possible to even damage the mob.
I wish there were physical themed set of rainbow facets, they could come with "adds xx-xx damage", "2%ctc amp on strike", "+5-10% cb/ds/ow". maybe some ias too,maybe 10-20%.
@@chrisjones6002 you're right,that is a big one. Throw 1-200 ar per stone? Mannnn I'm always coming up with items I wish I could put in the game haha. I've got journals full of dream gear.
I think immunities are great, but they should be used to encourage sorceresses to be multi-element builds. - Immunities in EVERY zone should be set up so that ALL zones has some immune monsters to every sorc element (fire/lightn/cold). - There should also be cross-element synergies which makes multi-element sorceress builds *better* than single-element builds. - As for example Fire Druids, there should be a Druid-specific item that breaks fire immunities. - Oh, and Infinity should not have Conviction aura. That kind of game would be so much more fun to play, and would contain *SOOO* many more potential builds. Do you go Lightning/Cold? Fire/Cold? Fire/Lightning? Which particular skills do you use? Which cross-synergies? And so on. I'm not talking about nerfing Sorc, it can still be as strong if that's what the community wants. But it would just be sooo much more FUN to play. A better game.
Death's web can still be used on other poison characters. Have dweb on swap. With main weapons, apply your poisons and then switch to dweb to increase the poison damage. It's clunky but it's a different way to play. Necros will still make the best use of the poison charm and dweb since their swap slot is free for CTA. I wish barbs had a decent poison skill. Imagine a poison barb with dual faceted dweb on swap!
It's not an efficient way to play because it works only if the first frame of poison damage is applied after the weapon switch. You often can't switch before monsters take damage. Barbs can't benefit dark web because they apply poison damage before switching weapon.
I will add that for cold sorc, even the -cold 70% res ain't so bad because most monster have fire/lightning attack. It always been fire res>light res>cold res>poison res.
Yup. I was thinking and I struggle to think about which actual dangerous monsters do cold damage and there aren't many. The cold sorc isn't even that busted damage wise vs. other endgame builds honestly. Maybe blizz is a smidge strong but its also not super fast. I just find it funny because there is so much busted in D2 (still love the game) but because its new in 2022 we treat it with modern scrutiny rather than all the nostalgia-fueled lore players have built around all the other random jank in the game.
@@NeloGTz This tbh. But to the other point, Blizz is slow as shit if you aren't target farming just elite packs, and it's annoying how random the hits are, rather than directing lightning through priority targets or using chain lightning to melt entire packs of normal mobs. It's literally that Blizz is just safe, simple, and easy to use, but is also the least fun sorc build.
I think the whole “monster immunity system” in d2 is just a awful game design. D2 on hell difficulty is just a boring game - you either skip almost half monsters, which isn’t fun at all or you forced to kill with physical dmg and without good gear it is slow and no fun
Yea, monsters are still unique. One melts in 1 second and another melts in 2. So unique. The same reason why I never played hammerdin. Sunders are boring as hell and overpowered.
For cold sorc, all melts in one shot lol. I disagree with his 'I still scary of moon lords', I dont understand what he talking about, I don't scary anything and I tested with 'naked' (spirit/stealth/..) sorc with cold rupture.
I think there is a huge upside investment wise to cold sorceresses right now due to cold mastery. Immunities breaking to 95% means you need resistance penetration from gear/infinity to deal any decent damage, but CM gives that for free. No other class gets that benefit
@Sean Caissey Yes, it is broken and it didnt do any good for the intended benefit of build diversity. Now it's just blizzard sorcs all around, even more than before.
Charms and terror zones are amazing. End game reward for end game players and it doesn’t break the game(excluding cold sorc obviously lol). They did a good job making charms for hell only, like you kind of said it still makes immune a part of the game you have to overcome(like in nightmare/early hell).
Also laughed at this. Cold rupture + cold mastery + naked sorc (2x spirit + stealth + lore + couple res charms) = every mosnter and elite pack is a meat bag. Yep, he forget to mention cold enchanted shit you previously need to skip
I like both the terror zones and the sunder charms. I think that sunder charms could use a little more balancing, be a little more rare. As for terror zones there are a few which have very low mob density still and that is not that fun, but of course you can always just do something else in that time. However what I always liked about Diablo 2 and disliked about Diablo 3 that Diablo 2 was the difference in difficulty. As characters get stronger the game gets easier. So a new endgame introduced in the future would be nice. Maybe like a pvp arena and something centered around that ? Maybe a group play arena ? You can do it now I guess but the game itself doesn’t really promote that. Maybe like a matching algorithm so I can have fun but not be completely destroyed by some fully buffed characters ;)?
I couldn't agree more. Honestly, the one thing I didn't like about D2, and the only thing really, is immunities. I just hate the idea of running away from mobs because they are literally invincible. And now that is gone. it's a huge improvement, the one bad thing is gone, even if I take a year to kill it, it dies, that's all that matters to me.
Sunder charms are by far the laziest thing that the devs have done since release. I’m honestly surprised they even made it past the PTR. I understand the need to make other builds viable but this is not the way to do it. They’ve completely ruined the game with these. The main thing that made the game challenging was dealing with immunes, and now that’s not a thing at all anymore with these charms. Even infinity couldn’t break all immunes, but these do. Also the fact that melee chars take an extra 25% physical damage at all times but then casters can just easily negate the minus to res with a couple of runes and a res jewel is ridiculous. Not to mention that all elemental damage types are not equal when receiving damage. For instance cold and poison enemies are far less of an issue than fire or lightning, which only adds to how flawed the resist penalties on these runes are. A better balance would have been to make the sunder charm apply a -15 or even -25 to max res for that resistance type, or double the negative to res and make it -150 so that they have to make some serious gear choices to be able to use it. And even then, cold casters would suffer far less of a penalty in terms of receiving actual damage than the other types. There’s not nearly enough of a penalty required to use one of these right now. They are also way too easy to find. As I said before, I really think the entire concept of these charms is incredibly lazy and flawed. They shouldn’t exist. They should just call it a failed experiment, delete them, and try something else in terms of rebalancing things. My personal suggestion would just be to lower the max res on the monsters for the other types of elements so that they can be equally broken by infinity (where most can be broken but some are just high enough where they can’t be, just like it is with lightning now). Also consider maybe having one or two other items which provide conviction instead of just infinity. Or maybe an item that provides lower resist as a skill (at basically the same effective level as the conviction on infinity) to mix things up a bit and have other options available to characters. I don’t know why these options weren’t explored instead of sunder charms as they seem pretty obvious to me and don’t really have any of the major drawbacks that sunder charms do.
Yes, unfortunately lazy + entitled baby community who dislike any form of difficulty was impossible to overcome. The real solution to build diversity and immunities was reworking sinergies and allow dual elements to be the norm without sacrificing too much damage. With the added benefit of being able to tweaks numbers in the future to fine tune everything. With sunder charms the only option is to remove them or allow them, casters don't care about extra damage, especially elemental one.
I like to see the poison charm reduce the duration of your poison but still give you the full damage. Would buff poison builds. The physical is like to see it add Max damage AR or something to give it a lil bump. Idk what to do for the magic one tbh lol
Instead of immunities I would rather have resistances that cannot be reduced by skills, items or gear, but the resistance would never be 100%, maybe 90% at tops. This way you can get through everything, but some monsters will take more effort.
As an og player I’m really happy with the changes they’ve made . Immunes have always been more then a pain, they forced players to play a handful of builds that could deal with them creating a major imbalance between builds . Fire classes always got screwed over so the charm and the new rune word flickering flame is huge for them! The thing I always loved about d2 was the huge customization of builds, but as soon as you got to hell it was like screw your build your not “optimal “ . This has been a huge and much needed change .
I like the sunder chams, exactly because it lets more builds work in hell. But in a way they're just a patch on the problem Blizzard created when they introduced synergies in 1.10 and at the same time raised monster hitpoints. Before then, every class had ways to counter immunities, and dipping into all of them was possible. You could definitely be a 3 elemental sorc back in 1.09.
At 35, it was fun to play for about a year and run through all the classes again. Unless they added a new act/class/main boss Im not really interested.
Honestly, thats more than good enough value/time. D2 is best played that way for most people. The few people who enjoy the grind just have a disproportionately strong voice because they've played this game so long. Play D2R, finish, then comeback years later when the itch kicks in.
I got to level 99 with my sorc on Xbox 6 months ago before terror zones existed. I whole heartedly wish that they did exist. That grind was miserable. The same 3 bosses over and over for hundreds of hours. I can certainly appreciate being able to clear terror zones to level my future characters to 99.
@@markxv2267 I’ve had a real job for 15 years already.. I can retire in 5 years. It pays 6 figures each and every year. Why would you assume that I don’t have a job?
My argument against immunities is that a monster you can't kill is not hard, it is just annoying. There is nothing hard since 99% of the time you are encouraged to just skip it, walk past it. You've said so yourself Llama in your guided playthroughs when encountering immunes or asked about it, most of the time you say "just ignore them". In fact i would argue that a 95% Res monsters is harder than an immune one since you are actually encouraged to stick around and try to fight the 95% Res one. I think you realized this yourself in this video when talking about how monsters still felt unique and challenging after they removed the immunity with the charm, and it makes sense, all the uniquenes you mention in this video about different monsters feeling different comes from actual gameplay mechanics that were designed pre immunities were added to the game.
Immunities are vital for the beginning of ladder for me. Having a team of 8 people who have to coordinate in order to play efficiently beings a lot to the table. The fact that in HC we have a salvation pally, oak druid, Bo barb sorcs for Tele, this team harmonizing in a way that makes it possible to walk through the game with next to no gear, basically without stopping at all until hell baal is dead is what keeps me coming back. My friends and I all practicing and coming together to do practice runs for a few weeks before ladder start. My team was actually first to kill hell baal on hc this ladder. We did it in 3 hours 29 mins.
If you're a casual gamer who doesn't have time get decked out in facets, griffons, infinity, Phoenix shield, 6 socketed facets crystal sword, d web, etc. Then the gap between cold sorc and all else has gotten wider, thus reducing build diversity. However, yes, in the GG geared players it definitely does increase diversity and choices. For example, giving a budget fire druid a sunder charm doesn't mean he can farm river of flame (especially with res penalty). But a cold sorc could
That doesnt make sense. Fire druid can clear chaos sanctuary hell with exception of fire immunes just like cold sorc with except of cold immune. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Fire druid is as strong as cold sorc. Sunder charms work the same regardless if you're fire druid or cold sorc. It just breaks immunities. The only class that it might not help is trapizin. Fire druid is exactly same as fire sorc. Neither has cold mastery and both fire sorc, fire druid and cold sorc or any other casters face same issues with immunities the same. If a mob is cold immune, prior to sunder, there's nothing you can do about it and even with conviction aura infinity polearm, it still does squat against alot of cold immunes prior to sunders.
Have played diablo on and off since it came out. Have never owned anything that involved a rune above ohm/ist. Never had an infinity, etc. I love you llama but I think sometimes crazy high level players like yourself forget there is a plethora of players out there that never get perfect gear and more options out there to kill some immunities I think is a good thing.
he is a speed runner, almost all of his play time is way underleveled and basic crap gear, even worse than the normal players gear. He of course knows well about being underpowered against immunes.
@@MrLostform I understand that. What I'm trying to say is the majority of players can't spend time farming lower kurast for 20 hours just to get a few runes. We just log in for 30-60 minutes when our kids are napping to kill some stuff haha
@@rileylaforge7640 i agree people play the game way less than content streamers, but I think mrllama is keenly aware of the challenge of the game without perfect gear, it is kind of his specialty. As opposed to your quote: "forget there is a plethora of players out there that never get perfect gear". edit: i dont disagree with your opinion necessarily, just the objective fact that most of this dudes content is with worse than casual players gear
I agree. The fact that sunders only drop to 95% make them completely reasonable additions to the game. I do feel that Cold Mastery should get the same treatment as Infinity/Conviction/Lower Resist. As for creating S- Tier builds for non-Paladin/Sorceress, I think the easiest solution is still to significantly buff Elite Item Sets, Class-Specific Uniques, or Class-Specific Runewords for those 5 classes.
Sunder charms opened up the game for me. I've been playing this game off and on since original release and typically get stuck, then bored, and then quit upon reaching hell. So while i can appreciate different points of view on the subject mine is pretty simple. I can actually play the game and enjoy it. Where i couldn't before.
Sunder charms are magnificent. I love them. However, it is true that the -cold res is stronger than other masteries and they need to buff them. What I believe is also essential is that they should change the -res on charms and make it not be fixed. Cold res is less important than light and fire res for players. This is an additional advantage. They should either have -all res (not 90 of course) or make it minus a random resistance and not a fixed one.
i agree in theory, but in reality people just destroy enemies with almost zero effort and jusut skip the immunes. Especially since everyone is using teleport from enigma
the problem is terrorzones though. Imagine it goes pit -> crystaline -> ancient way -> glacial trail -> forgotten tower. Now your cold character is in town going well damn, guess i can farm baal.
My friend came up with the idea of adding cube recipes using sunder charms to make items that can lower enemy resists. I think it's a cool idea. You could make rings or something with like -5 to enemy X resistances. There could be a rework of unique, set, and crafted items to add more lower resist items. Right now cold sorc probably has it a little too easy. Lightning characters that can use Crescent Moon can have an okay time, but ultimately even with sunder charms, lightning and fire characters will require substantial investment to reduce resists to a workable level.
My main character this ladder has been a trapsin. I found a lightning sunder and ran it for a while but I found with no other negative to enemy lightning resistance that it was faster to use fire blast to kill one and death sentry. Also with crap gear it wasn't easy to make up the lightning res on my part. I do think they are a good addition to the game overall. I started a sorc so I'm going to see how well the cold works.
Immunes was never a challange. You just ran away, that's not hard. Monsters need to be challengeing in other aspects, than being immune. Dmg reflect, super fast moveing and attacking, super tanky, high dmg, piercing your res, etc...
Nobody likes reflect in any game ever. People have complained forever about having to just avoid reflect in Poe and D3. They literally removed iron maiden because that shit made melee even more aids to play. Extra fast mobs are already really fast and scary, especially when they spawn with other specific mods. We already have stone skin and magic resistance for tankiness, we have extra strong, we have conviction auras. Do you even play D2 or ARPGs?
@@Yepmyaccount i know we have these, but it should be more, as in how challengeing an encounter is, these affixes should be leaned on more. There could be new affixes added and whatnot. Not just slaping an immunity on, so now you have to ignore a bunch of monsters.
try running away from the ghosts in arcane. Never gonna find the summoner that way. Can't run away from a physical immune Lister in wave 5. Plenty of scenarios where you can't just bypass.
@@10ajmein Very sporatic occasios. So factualy you are correct. But eventualy you'll stay away from areas your build can't handle complety. Because relying on Merc AI is not the best option. That said Sunder charms are also not the best idea to deal with immunes. I saw a lot of better ideas from the community.
The immunity's is part 2 of d2 next to the drop calculator. I fill like they may have broken the game. But I have not played much this session. I have /working on a enchant sorc. What should I put leftover skill in to ? Es, fb/meteor or orb ? I previusly tried a very low dmg fire wall(leaf staff) fire ball sorc for mote trick on mapisto and took for ever as he keep dodging FB.
What was ruined was the last second change to the Sunders leaving Cold Mastery untouched. Now there are thousands of players, and tens of thousands of bots, that are all just cold sorcs while other builds are expensive to create in response.
I have just recently started this ladder and have luckily found a poison sunderer. Always wanted to do a pb necro last ladder and now I for sure will! gonna be interesting for sure!
mby im wrong (did not play diablo for a decsde now), but necro was like only character that was rly able to do "single element" for whole game, because of lower res and because of fact that corpse explosion do same dmg on all levels.
Initially I thought that sunder would do good to the game but I am not so sure: when enemies are sundered, you can/will use only 1 skill, your most damaging one, regardless of the monster type; monoskill + ignoring monster type = boring and mindless. Instead of sunder charms, they should have improved for each class a secondary viable damage type, to be used when your primary one doesn't work (fire/cold sorc is quite the example here). You would have to sacrifice skill points but that wouldn't be necessary bad.
Synergies ruined this game... before you could run bi/tri element builds and didn't even need infinity... the game was funnier and less frustrating. Spending 60/80 points in some skills you'll rarely use just to max your main skill damage is absurd and, at the same time, you can't spend those points in a better way, like some utility or defensive skill...
Llama and dabrunski crying. They need to get over it. This was a fun limited time event to shake up the game play a bit. Using the same builds and farming the same zones for 20 years got stale. I find it funny these guys are ok letting their chat carry them to 99 and don't fight against RMT, bots, and FG ruining the game economy but the second there's a tiny bit of fun or something different from 20 years ago they cry about it
For physical sunder, damage taken is too high but Stormshield and a DR belt negate the damage and leave you with comfortable DR overall. For a character like a fury Druid, I would definitely keep the charm equipped so that I can have a merc with something other than reapers toll. I think it would help with Ubers as well. Fury Druid was my Uber character and the difference between Ubers instantly melting and taking forever is how often the physical immune mobs hit you. Reaper toll merc fixed this if the merc survives but it would be nice to have physical sunder and new merc weapon options beyond reapers toll.
you should still run a source of decrep even with the charm... 95% is still way too much and if i am not wrong decrep doesnt work at 1/4 so its super useful.
6:26 i suggest add rbf jewel to the game -(3-5)% enemy magic ress / + (3-5)% magic damage so necro can combine it with sunder charm magic for example: Crown of Ages + rbf -10% (2x jewel) Black Hades 3 sox -15% (3x jewel) / or / Spirit Forge 2 sox -10% (2x jewel) Boneflame + rbf -5% (1x jewel) any Wand + rbf -5% (1x jewel) so additional -30% enemy magic res. I know this is not a solution for everything but first step to let them something better works. if we have more ways to reduce magic res after sunder immune i think blizzard could add some little more magic immune enemies. Also i think that we don't have really good uniqe items for that build. we have still some not used based armores which they doesn't have their uniqe versions Archon Plate (uniqe version) +100-150% Enhanced Defense +1 To All Skill Levels -(7-15)% To Enemy Magic Resistance +(10-15) To Vitality +20% Faster Hit Recovery +20% Better Chance Of Getting Magic Items Socketed (4) There is can be done even more. Maybe open more builds with magic damage?
I feel like maybe Sunder Charms should also cap the resistance reduction to +50% or 0% so you can't push right down to -100%. That way you'd be able to do those areas with any character, but you'd at least have to put some more effort in to kill the formerly immune creatures. Being able to get a formerly immune creature to -100 seems ridiculous. But then, I don't play ladder and haven't experienced any of this, so what do I know?
I both like and dislike immunities for a few reasons. I totally agree with you that, while leveling up, having to deal with certain immunities CAN be interesting. Can be. I know my Barb didn’t feel like I was absolutely screwed when I encountered physical immunity, but my Lightning Javazon felt totally bogged down and useless. This was prior to any changes, so I can’t speak on whether this has gotten better with the Amazon changes. I just know I legitimately felt like quitting in Act 2 Hell because having to jab my way through a series of lightning immune monsters was absolutely miserable. Slowed down the pace of the game dramatically for me. This wouldn’t have been such a huge deal if respecs weren’t as limited as they are while leveling up as well. I can’t think of a good way to handle this, however. The way respec works is fundamental to the enjoyment of D2 in my opinion as well. You’ve spent all of this time and energy learning to master a Javelin, it doesn’t make sense to go back to town and magically become a god with a bow and arrows and then switch back and forth constantly. I don’t have a real solution to this problem, I just know I didn’t like getting bogged down in the middle of leveling with what felt like no good option outside of having a friend. Where I really don’t enjoy immunities though is during the end game. I totally understand the tactical decision making process while leveling, but I’m not a fan of having some content just basically be inaccessible to farm based on your build. I think having those rotating terror zones does a decent enough job at varying your farming spots so that you every build isn’t stuck farming the exact same area: that being the highest level area with the most monster density. I think it does an okay job. I also would say that I’m not surprised that the enemies do feel unique regardless of whether or not they’re immune for the sole reason that the blanket immunity thing was not introduced from the very beginning of D2’s life. I think its a testament to the original development teams knowledge, understanding, and skill at game design. Even with a very limited set of actions (monsters basically move, attack, and get hit with usually one basic attack and sometimes one or two special attacks) they were able to make monsters feel dramatically different in how you engaged or wanted to engage them. They don’t all feel like identical pincushions for you to mindlessly slaughter, and that’s kinda cool considering that, with the tech they had back then, that’s essentially all that they were.
@@ProjektVapor but but but blizz sorcs. Hammerdin still top 1 But but blizz sorc Fire sorc with infi and flicker clears faster But but blizz sorc Fire druid even clears faster. But but blizz sorc Light sorc more op than ever But but blizz sorc Literally blizz sorc gets the first week of ladder. And people are crying. After that blizz sorc aint shit. My buddy plays fire sorc with flicker and tal rasha 3 set with orb for extra 15% fire reduce and he destroys everything faster than me.
I think you are completely missing the point here Llama. What we wanted before are build diversity and Sunder Charms was supposed to fix that but what happened is now people only play Cold Sorc. Literally.
Yep, cold sorceresses everywhere. Even more than before. They opened new builds - well, thanks for that, but they make cold even more OP, that unintentional and must be confessed
People say they want build diversity but they pick power way more of the time. The biggest problem is that the loot system in D2 make it necessary to farm for most intermediate and up gear and because most monsters are worth skipping, you really want teleport for most builds. Blizz was king for DPS with mediocre great + teleport. Sunder charms just make it so you can farm where-ever you feel like with Blizz sorc.
Mass immunities as they exist in the game since 1.10 are absolute trash. I would say maybe unique or champion packs being immune would be okay but huge swaths of the game just being mass immune just create unnecessary difficulty.
the game is already hard enough for physical damage dealers! D2's biggest weakness is the gap between casters and physical, and they just made it even larger. Physical sunder charm should sunder immunities + add splash damage with no drawbacks perhaps. But really the issue needs to be resolved on a more fundamental level. Physical needs more toughness and needs more AoE. It's absurd that the fastest clearers, best mobility and even toughest characters (immortal sorc and various paladin casters) are all casters! Only place physical shines is on a few troll builds in Ubers that are basically useless everywhere else
Nobody remembers the minus 20 to 25 poison res on grief...pop dual grief on an act 5 merc and they will have very high damage as well as help lower resists. Pair that with a deaths web for an instant at least minus 80 to poison res. Poison sunder, deaths web, dual grief on a5 merc equals bringing poison immunes down to 15 or lower poison res. A few poison facets or an infinity will quickly have previously poison immune enemies left with negative poison res
I think they did mostly okay with Sunder charms. I think the magic and physical sunders need some rework. But overall I'm happy. I went Hydra sorc route this ladder, and i found the best way to counter the -firs resist from fire sunder is to make a Flickering flame. So now im working on getting the -enemy resist, so phoenix for sure. But Hydra or any firesorc for that matter should absolutely slap this season. So far its been an absolute blast!
I'm still trying to get there, but my plan is to use the fire Sunder + Tal's wand, armor and belt to get the monsters to 80% fire res and leave room to use either a facet on those aforementioned tal pieces to use Shako or use flickering flame and put Ists or ptopazes on them to get more MF. That, of course, before getting the wealth for a Phoenix Shield. Let me know if you've tried that
Leave cold sorc op, let other character be op at a lower budget with sime cheaper runewords with -res, then add some more endgame to it. U still have to go through all hell immunities for the first time and then farm them a lot in the terror zones until u can play the game with ur favourite build normally.
The sunder charm drop rate was the biggest problem. I got like 8 in a day AFTER the patch as a crappy hammerdin. But now HR aren't as expensive which is GOOD
As far as monster immunity goes, the monsters felt unique in normal and NM so there is no reason to think they won't feel unique in Hell. The core mechanic was there all along, all that changed is that one element doesn't do damage. I think that is the least impactful part of the monster design.
I think, if sunders are gonna be so common, they should reduce 3 random player immunities. i.e. a Cold Rupture does the -75 enemy cold res, but then also does (-85 to -65 poison), (-85 to -65 fire) and (-30-20 phys), again random rolls, or something along those lines. Like let it all roll random. There's no way these MF bliz sorcs should be getting off so easy. At least a lite sorc has to deal with insane soul damage and/or stack up their lite immune/sorb. Then obviously any sunder charm that does -cold, -poison, -magic player resist are going to be more desirable, so at least we're adding more value to them via a random nature
Hybrid builds show up to work. Blizzard: Thank you for you 22 years of service, but your jobs have been outsourced to Sunder charms. Hybrid builds: T_T
People are complaining but originally we hated when they made immunities so prolific. So the real D2 purists actually don't like immunities that much. Some level of immunities is fine buy current hell is just badly designed.
@@unixtreme In D1 most monsters had immunities and that was fine. Though every char had access to every spell... If only 'charge' system has some rework.
sunder charms meant that day 2 of ladder i was doing p8 cs runs solo with cold sorc(full tals + sunder), game feels too easy and i don't feel like making another char since cold sorc is so powerfull and anything i could make feels weak: slow or low mf(except mf barb but i did that last season and i don't want to do it again)
To each is own, im having a blast with a fire druid, have a ravenlore with a facet + sunder charm, still working on getting enigma and phoenix, its a blast and something other than the standard meta sorc.
My Thoughts summed up: - Terror Zones are a great addition for leveling when you are 90+. Making other areas a worth option to farm could have been achieved by making more areas lvl 85 areas. - Charms basically add nothing to the game for most builds. I dont see any more build diversity all i see are 6 out of 8 players using blizz sorc in public, because people love easy op stuff. Also bad builds are still bad and op builds are still op...who whould have seen this coming - you would achieve much more build diversity if you would buff the bad builds to become somewhat good. also having high difficulty in the game will help with build diversity as long as you give players a solution for their builds and certain scenarios. some of the best examples are trapsin or bowzon(elemental), where you can easily play all content in the game as long as you use 5% of your brain. So the solution for bringing more bowzon into the game would be to buff the dual spec to be on par with other top builds and not bring a sunder charm which doesnt help the build besides the fact that you have 40 unspent skillpoints and doesnt need to change you attack depending on the enemy you face.
I’m still waiting for vids on decked out fire sorc. I started with fire sorc this season thinking sunders would make it playable but I literally camped stony tomb and Andy before switching to blizz. TZ I’m enjoying. I think it’s perfect for people who play solo a lot. Im already lvl 89 without a single Baal run or 8 player game. Imho I think they should leave only elemental sunders. They should add 2 separate items for physical and magical coming from TZ like sunders but not sunders. Gives loot variety making everything rarer.
A full tals + phoenix fire sorc is what I am going for this season. Will result in one frame slower cast rate. But you should be absolutely destroy everything.
Putting the charms aside, I LOVE Terror zones, because it keeps the game feeling fresh, every hour it gives you a reason to grind something new.
You could already do it tho. There's a UA-cam channel "calefxd" - he showed it, you can get great loot from almost all hell areas.
However with terror zones you're being hand held in what you should do, instead of choosing your own adventure
Terror Zones is just a mechanics to level faster, loot faster and as a bonus (by using Sunder as a band-aid to TZ system) - killing everything ignoring immunities.
Basically everything that a casual D3 player ever wanted from D2.
@@Ubeogesh I still choose other areas that aren't terrorized that fit a build better. Last season for example I had a summon/fury druid and would go over to act 4 to clear it and a got a Jah rune. I think the main spots are still worth farming, but if you really wanna level up then you have an option now instead of requiring a 15 person operation who will setup shrines and diablo kills for you.
@@sixmillionsilencedaccounts3517 trust me that is NOT all a d3 player wants from d2
@@sixmillionsilencedaccounts3517 Totally agree abound sunder charms making gameplay D3-like (not sure if a real D3 player want this, i hope most of them fine with D2 immunes already as I know). Less decisions based on mosnters is bad. Eliminating 'i should avoid these' is bad.
I kind of hate immunities. I don't mind it on unique or magic monsters, but I don't like just have my progress completely haulted because I can't damage enemies with my primary skill.
Yup. Prior to sunder charms i always had my enjoyment of the game completely shut down. Whereas this run I'm finally able to progress and last night I crafted by first call to arms. Might not seem like much to people that played through before the charms but for me it was a huge achievement and I've been having a blast. Big difference between that and getting stuck/quitting the game
Strongly agree. The abundance of immunities in Hell is just obnoxious and sucks fun right out of the game.
I Dnno, i was happy without immunities pre-Lod... in 1.06 .. ^ this is litterally turns the game into 1.06 for your build for me, also immunity did not offer a challenge they were just a hinderance you had to circumvent by recreating a game or running past em ~ @KabertaKneeGr0wCxntman
Only recently starting playing again after playing the original many years ago and I was having a great time until I reached act 3 in hell …… every single mob in the first zone is fast moving and lightning immune! It sucks so hard that if I didn’t already have a sunder charm ready to go in another 5 levels I would be seriously considering an uninstall. I managed all the previous by avoiding stuff but it’s just not possible here.
I love your content man. I listen to your guides about finding high runes, unique items, and character building. I have found 5 sur, 2 LO, 4 OHM, 1 VEX, 2 GUL, 6 MAL, AND 6 PUL RUNES. I never thought I'd get this far on single player. Working on building my offline tesladin. Keep up the great work.
I personally like the idea that someone could actually use fire damage in hell. I swear to God just about everything is fire immune after NM act 3
nm and hell act 5 work. but aside from that it's pretty bad, yes.
You can run Hell cows or stony tomb! But yeah that’s about it. So that’s why my sorc is fire with a splash of cold for frozen orb
You're in the burning pits of hell, fire is not supposed to hurt them lmao
@@xnotx2 Ahh yes because realism is what we need in diablo....
act4 fire immune = whole game fire immune lol
I like immunites, but as long as there is a way for every build to break them. But, it also should have a cost, which the charms do with the minus to your resistance
As someone who can’t play a lot and doesn’t have higher-end gear. Playing pure fire sorc with w/dual spirit, I can’t even kill sundered fallens efficiently without the additional minus-enemy-fire-res gear. I don’t even use my sunder-charm at the moment. It’s been super fun grinding for those items and ABSOLUTELY LOVING Terror Zones. Thanks Llama.
Even with the fire sunder charm, Fire in general just still feels super weak in hell, especially (like always) in the Chaos Sanctuary, which many thought the charm would rectify. Sure, you can now "kill" there, but it takes ages even at higher levels.
@@Neonmirrorblack right, you need gg gear (flickering flame, phx shield, 6 fire facets, infinity) to be efficient there. Blozz sorc needs none of those. Thats why I think for budget specific builds this doesn't help diversity
That's why you play cold sorc. Cold mastery gives -cold res, fire and light mastery do not. Even with average gear, if you have the cold sunder charm it's very OP.
@@bane9685 What dedicated fire build reaches level 75 or completes all content w/out GG gear? Can't personally think of one. So you either find the charm with a different character or build, while spending your life in A1/2 Hell running from immunes with your fire build until level 75. And then still need Infinity etc, assuming you don't borrow it from the character that found the charm.
For players with low time or who play solo, Sunder Charms do not change anything: you still need the Blizz Sorc/H'din etc in your arsenal to "unlock" the endgame for your new characters to ... farm slower ... or something?
Honestly not convinced Sunder Charms fixed diversity or the issues with melee; they mostly made builds with GG gear better cos you still need the GG gear if you're not a Cold Sorc. And if you still need the same GG gear anyway, then what was the point of breaking immunities?
I'm still grinding for a cold charm but I like them because it allows me to use my sorc in all areas of the game. The zones changing every hour is awesome because it incentivizes me to play new areas that I skipped before
You could use Sorc in any area before -- just had to go Light-Sorc and grind a lot for it because it was expensive. Or create the char offline in Hero Editor.
I dislike the D2 community for being like you: Just want the game to be easy.
I thought it was fun that you needed to create specialized chars for different areas before, until you got the gear / currency to be able to create a Light-Sorc. But whatever, have it your way, I'm not returning to Bnet. Single Player is very fun to me as well, thank god.
@@manso306 What did you lose when the changes were made?
What did it cost you?
@@gowanlock That's like asking "why do you need a hard mode in video games? you can just choose to miss half of your shots"
Before, it was a long grind before you got to play a godly character like Light-Sorc. (like, even Hdin has trouble in small spaces ... though he's OP for the cost of just Enigma, no question)
Today it's far from being a grind to get a char that's as good as the Light-Sorc was before. Just get a Cold-Sorc, Sunder charm, and relatively cheap gear (not much beyond Occy, Shako, 35 Spirit) and you breeze through any Terror Zone / 85 area.
On top of that, the Terror Zones Treasure Class upgrades makes obtaining items like Griffon's ridiculously easy now.
If I were to decide to grind for a Light-Sorc the "old fashioned way" -- i.e. ignoring Terror Zones and Sunder charms -- I would just feel stupid compared to any of the other players going for a Cold Sorc now.
@@manso306 I agree with you, it should be difficult and expensive to use a character in every area. The point is, why only light sorc and hammerdins?? boring... That should be achievable with every char/build.
@@samorey4982 I would be totally ok with balance changes to make it more difficult for Hdin, and difficult but possible for other builds. Light Sorc felt just about right to me before Sunder charms.
But Sunder Charms are a "solution" in the opposite direction... Light Sorc is even more OP (doesn't even need Infinity to be as good as before, or even stronger with Infy now). And Sunders drop way too often, and their penalties are incredibly easy to offset... Like Fire Sorc's BiS is definitely Flickering Flame, which by itself boosts Fire Res even more than the worst Sunder lowers it.
Orb sorc had been my favorite character since I first saw the flying ball shoot ice spikes in a baal game when I was 12. I love that it's finally use that character to farm my favorite areas.
For a plaguezon, rabies wolf, and daggermancer you can always use the death's web swap trick to get the minus poison res.
Also really cool with widowmaker guided arrows and poison scs.
How many times has Llama moved this year alone is the real question, I swear everytime I watch a video his background changes LOL
I have to believe that within these first 2 seasons, the changes implemented just skyrocketed the Fire Druid's capability.
With the talent/skill changes made in season 1, and Flickering Flame's introduction (especially in a GG pelt base), they already became very capable (I never got Infinity 1st season, but an Eth Reapers Toll works wonders for the Fire Druid's merc as well to help muscle through their physical damage).
The Fire Sunder is the icing on the the cake, having the -Fire Res countered by Flickering Flame's Fire Aura... Fire Druid went from something I never thought of to an incredibly satisfying and complete feeling build.
After sunder u can use for example griffons and facets to bring enemy resistances to even lower. But wait, those DO NOT WORK WITH FREAKING ASSASSIN TRAPS!!!!!!
It's fiiiine, corpse explosion is > sunder charm
@@Malum95 except trapsin fighting immunes cannot kill the mobs therefore without sunders, theyre waiting for merc to just produce one corpse explosion that barely does 15% of pack of mobs. Most of trapsin's dmg comes ....traps. Necro CE works much better becos of amplify dmg.
Would physical charm be better if it made you ignore enemy armor and through that let you hit more often? That might be a reason to take the risk of the higher damage taken
Even a 50% reduction in enemy defence would be great, not negating the need for attack rating, just allowing you to hit more often.
@@honeybadger036 yeah that's what I meant, didn't explain that clearly though I mean a "ignores 35%-50% of enemy armor" kinda stat
Might make melee charms better and fix a fundamental issue of melees in the game
@@Fulbor indeed
I think they should try adding melee splash to Sudner Phys charm
we already have grief with that, so it wouldnt be a big improvement
and grief is a very cheap rw for what it gives
my biggest takeaway from this is the lack of parity between element types. Light has easy access to Crescent Moon which at the cost of an Um gives -35. The closest parallel in fire is Flickering Flame and for the cost of a Vex we get up to -15%. Poison is in the same state short of Death's web and Bramble as the "midgame" option is 3pc trangs for -25 which eats up 2 extra gear slots. If the devs are trying to move more player power into gear then I think there is a real opportunity to give midgame options in the -30 range to all the elements. personally i feel poison really needs a look at as the builds are pretty marginal, and so long as poison sources cant stack on a target the dps ends up being pretty lackluster.
I would like to see FF boosted to -30, and new runewords (or revised unique/runeword) for each of the other damage types including magic. In regard to cold mastery, I am ok with it being reduced to 50% or lower if it has some other benefit (ie added slows target, and/or +damage) and a new runeword in the -30 range that doesn't require a Jah to build. I like adding runewords to the helm slot as Shako is so compelling to so many builds that having the option to swap to for a more damage-centric helm seems like a good choice for the player to make.
Alternatively we could look at adding diminishing returns on Cold mastery so it caps out at a more balanced level. in the same vein I personally feel like the diminishing returns on lower resist should be re-evaluated as CM And Conviction both offer -150 or more, while LR is capped to 65%. if all 3 were normalized to 120 it would give plenty of opportunity to chase the last -80 rez in gear without this inconsistent 1/5th rule.
the fact we have diminishing returns on certain things, but linear scaling on -cold res is mindblowing to me. Somebody had to be a cold sorc shill in the dev team.
Act 5 barb merc can work great to help with minus to enemy poison res. Pop on dual griefs on merc and there's minus 40 to minus 50 (rolls 20 to 25 negative enemy poison res) pair that with deaths web either on main or swap, and there is an instant minus 80 to minus 100 enemy poison res. Quick way to completely break all enemy poison res. Nobody remembers the minus poison res on grief as it's a fairly useless stat for the weapon, but can be great when utilized for the negative poison res, albeit not exactly a budget option
@@chrisdover636 i believe that -- rez only worked for the person equipping the item. Mercs running infinity don't offer extra light rez so the same should apply to Grief
I like your point about sundering immunities away still doesn't break away the uniqueness of monsters in the game. That's actually valid. Broken immunes still have pretty high resistances to those elements.
However, the reason why sundering charms are bad is because they are impossible to balance around properly and would need additional items and mechanics to make them not imbalanced as they are now. They allow more builds to solo the rotating terror zone content, sure, but that was the whole point of making hybrid builds in the first place. Now, hybrid builds are less appealing than ever because these charms now exist.
Hybrid builds were always unfun to play and most people only ever played them out of necessity. Who wants to use their preferred skills with less efficiency because they had to spec into something else to get around niche situations?
@@Yepmyaccount try playing a melee build. Having 2 types of damage is pretty much the standard if you want to farm everywhere.
@@Bowazon I have two level 88 barbarians, one I played pre-ladder and one I started with on first ladder-both I used to farm out dual griefs and fort. Your point also only goes along with what I said. People only play hybrid because they have to. Them no longer being necessary is not a loss.
@@Yepmyaccount well, that's just your preference that you like one element builds.
To my point: there's a large player base that play bowazons or berserk barbs or spearazons or zeal paladins or fury druids that fell back on using another damage type for immunes. It was and is still the norm and despite being not able to blow physical immunes away quickly, we never complained about this mechanic because it has been part of the game for a long time and really there's nothing fundamentally wrong with having immunities...
And is the reason why the synergy system was introduced alongside it: to give incentive to spec into single element builds if you so wished to create specialisation.
@@Bowazonin that case they should balance the sorceress hybrid build cause the best fire spell to use if your main is cold is firewall and you can imagine how annoying it is to depend on monsters to stand still.
I think sunder charms add a lot to the game for us plebs. I think they are a more interesting addition than say enigma, where every streamer has one on every toon and teleports so much that their characters legs have become atrophied.
I found the physical one to be worth using as a CE/Summoner (using a perf 10% one). You get some phys resist from Enigma and Shako to begin with. If you are really concerned about it you can slap on a verdungo instead of a Arach and hit the 75% FCR breakpoint using a hoto+spirit shield. Necros are a little more protected by their army and everything will always be cursed with Amp damage dropping a sundered mob to a reasonable level. But, I think physical sunder charms for other classes are probably meh and you really need decrep or amp with it.
So using a bone break on a summon necro is optimal?
The Terror zones opened up so many areas I would never farm before and to top it off you can get xp from it. Wonderful idea and I’ve been having so much fun. I always stop leveling at 95 and now I feel the urge to continue.
I feel like the same monsters that were dangerous before sunder charms, are still dangerous. Things like Stygian Dolls, Venom Lords, Gloams, Death Lord, etc are still ridiculous dangerous...
I don't want to see them break things that are challenging but manageable. I want to see them fix things that exist but are useless, like almost all of crafting.
Sunder charms feel like a lazy hack to avoid needing to actually balance late game builds.
For example, why not make a late game 3 socket Barb helm only runeword that breaks physical immunity as one of its modifiers? That would make 3 socket Barb helms with awesome skills insanely valuable AND deal with the physically immunity problem at the same time.
@@TommyV8898 are you trying to pretend such things have never existed? *cough* spirit *cough* enigma *cough* infinity
@@TommyV8898 Not really since it would break Immortal King set. It would force situational choice which D2 needs more of. I like D2 more when you have to use certain equipment for certain areas over a single best in slot collection that is always best no matter what. You could easily make this kind of runeword very bad at fighting anything other than physical immunes.
Honestly charms and immunites are not the problem here. It's the lack of "good" gear options. Basically every build needs the same runewords or uniques in order to be effective.
I think that 100% immunity to any damage type shouldn't exist in ARPG's, unless there's a sunder charm-like way to break that immunity. I do feel like the cold damage type needs some adjustment however, due to innate CC potential & cold mastery specifically.
I think Sunder charms just as OK as some of the "new" 1.1 runewords like Enigma or CtA in that they just make more different character types and builds more viable. The fact that there are some builds like hdins or zerker barbs where immunities really just dont matter makes me a lot more OK with sunder charms making the game smoother for some other builds that struggled in a lot of areas before.
As a javazon on a budget (no high runes) that lightning sunder charm hasn't done anything because the only additional sources of negative lightning res. are gated by being insanely expensive (griffons/infinity) and 95% res monsters are not easy to kill.
Just use a lower resist Wand, that's super Budget
Yea cold sorc say with a holy freeze merc with charm be pretty op, targets will basically stand still
Holy freeze from merc should not damage cold immunes. Or am I wrong? They made 'minions' affected by SM, but not merc, right ?
I also disagree on other characters gaining value from these charms... it's pretty much just the sorceress. Most other builds dont... your example of frost maiden isn't great considering they can build hybrid super easily and already had no problem dealing with these immunes. Most other builds, either can go dual dmg type, can go hybrid super easy or there are pretty much no immunes to their dmg type (physical +magic). Poison is the exception, but you said it yourself, considering the lack of gear and that poison jav and rabies druid dmg is on a too slow, the charms dont help much.
Why playing an hybrid bowazon that will struggle to kill a white mob?! Seriously that is why people were only playing hdin, if people don’t like sunder charms and want it removed , fine nerf hammerdin and bone/summon necro
@@DeathcoreHusky you clearly never played a frostmaiden...
@@Lonoty no i didn’t, all i know is that budget bowazon struggle alot
@@DeathcoreHusky physical bowzon only. The elemental bowzons are fine. They might require alot of mana, but they are good dmg wise.
A pure physical bowzon struggle alot that's right. I completed a SSF playthrough of a pure physical bowzon in patch 2.3 (before insight was available in bows and before all the buffs to multiple arrow, straffe and guided arrow)
It was hard (harder than a SSF WW barb using maces only), but possible. Now it's incredibly easier. And it was hard only because I limited myself to only using physical skills. But it was my choice, I wanted a challenge so I chose this build. The elemental builds are super strong and easy to play.
@@Lonoty well thanks for the info I’ve always wanted to play a bowa zon but i heard that the physical was the strongest but only if she well equipped
I think Physical charm is okay for Throw Barb and Physical Bowazon? Both have chance to cast Amplify on hit (from Lacerator/Atmas) and with Sunder these physical immune mobs get oneshot once they get amplify on them (some of them didnt before, some even stayed physical immune with Amplify). Need testing for melees, because it might be not worth it to have decresed physical res for this bonus.
As for Magic Sunder the only use is for Hammerdin solo Baal runs to kill second wave a bit faster? But how much faster is needed to be tested too.
I would like buff for both of these charms because they seem to be meh compared to caster ones. I am saving all the charms for my Non-Ladder characters, but Physical I save only 10-13, cant be bothered taking even more damage when using them.
On a side note I would love having fear chance removed from Lacerator so Throw Barb can be playable with it with low amount of gear.
the physical curses are a good point, they reduce physical resist. Good point.
edit: a merc with the unique thresher goes big here.
edit 2: maybe making the curses reduce magic resist as well as phys resist is the fix. There is already an overlap with hammers being buffed by concentration, so they are already related and can fix the magic charm.
For the physical sunder, bowazons would just use magic arrow. If she were working in a team that can reliably curse large groups of mobs quickly, then it could come in handy there too.
Throw barbs can use it because they have lacerator and fury druids can main with Reaper's Toll as well.
Except they dont. Bowazon has very low dmg. Throw barb dmg is probably pretty low as well. In player 8 these two will struggle and mobs will regen faster than they can dmg the mobs. Sunder charm only helps with physical immunities. It does not increase dmg. It's not an "amplify" dmg sunder charm. That's not how sunder charm works. It just breaks the defense or resists. If you're a melee and the mob has "stone" modifier or physical immune, then sunder charm makes it possible to even damage the mob.
@@zlonewolf there is a curse...called amplify...that pairs very well with sunder charms. what did you even write lol.
I wish there were physical themed set of rainbow facets, they could come with "adds xx-xx damage", "2%ctc amp on strike", "+5-10% cb/ds/ow".
maybe some ias too,maybe 10-20%.
Adding AR would be big too, I feel like that's the weak point of most physical builds without ITD.
@@chrisjones6002 you're right,that is a big one.
Throw 1-200 ar per stone?
Mannnn I'm always coming up with items I wish I could put in the game haha. I've got journals full of dream gear.
I think immunities are great, but they should be used to encourage sorceresses to be multi-element builds.
- Immunities in EVERY zone should be set up so that ALL zones has some immune monsters to every sorc element (fire/lightn/cold).
- There should also be cross-element synergies which makes multi-element sorceress builds *better* than single-element builds.
- As for example Fire Druids, there should be a Druid-specific item that breaks fire immunities.
- Oh, and Infinity should not have Conviction aura.
That kind of game would be so much more fun to play, and would contain *SOOO* many more potential builds.
Do you go Lightning/Cold? Fire/Cold? Fire/Lightning? Which particular skills do you use? Which cross-synergies? And so on.
I'm not talking about nerfing Sorc, it can still be as strong if that's what the community wants. But it would just be sooo much more FUN to play. A better game.
no?
@@bahneetza2169 Compared to literally picking *one* skill that you will be using over and over on every monster through the entire game - Yes?
Fun in theory, in practice whatever does the most dps or farms the most areas effectively.
@@Phnxkon The point is that multi-element (multi-skill) builds would be that choice.
Death's web can still be used on other poison characters. Have dweb on swap. With main weapons, apply your poisons and then switch to dweb to increase the poison damage. It's clunky but it's a different way to play. Necros will still make the best use of the poison charm and dweb since their swap slot is free for CTA. I wish barbs had a decent poison skill. Imagine a poison barb with dual faceted dweb on swap!
It's not an efficient way to play because it works only if the first frame of poison damage is applied after the weapon switch. You often can't switch before monsters take damage. Barbs can't benefit dark web because they apply poison damage before switching weapon.
I will add that for cold sorc, even the -cold 70% res ain't so bad because most monster have fire/lightning attack. It always been fire res>light res>cold res>poison res.
Yup. I was thinking and I struggle to think about which actual dangerous monsters do cold damage and there aren't many. The cold sorc isn't even that busted damage wise vs. other endgame builds honestly. Maybe blizz is a smidge strong but its also not super fast. I just find it funny because there is so much busted in D2 (still love the game) but because its new in 2022 we treat it with modern scrutiny rather than all the nostalgia-fueled lore players have built around all the other random jank in the game.
The only dangerous cold dmg in the game is frost nova cast on death on cold enhanced monster
@@NeloGTz This tbh. But to the other point, Blizz is slow as shit if you aren't target farming just elite packs, and it's annoying how random the hits are, rather than directing lightning through priority targets or using chain lightning to melt entire packs of normal mobs. It's literally that Blizz is just safe, simple, and easy to use, but is also the least fun sorc build.
It also won’t be any trouble if you have a halfway decent energy shield setup. Your resist won’t matter at all.
I think the whole “monster immunity system” in d2 is just a awful game design.
D2 on hell difficulty is just a boring game - you either skip almost half monsters, which isn’t fun at all or you forced to kill with physical dmg and without good gear it is slow and no fun
Immunity is a lazy way to implement challenge. You don't need it to implement challenging content.
Yea, monsters are still unique.
One melts in 1 second and another melts in 2. So unique.
The same reason why I never played hammerdin. Sunders are boring as hell and overpowered.
For cold sorc, all melts in one shot lol.
I disagree with his 'I still scary of moon lords', I dont understand what he talking about, I don't scary anything and I tested with 'naked' (spirit/stealth/..) sorc with cold rupture.
D2r is at its peak rn... I dropped poe for these new changes and I'm having a blast
No it’s not lol
@@serious409 you must be a disgruntled purist. Your tears make me happy lol
I think there is a huge upside investment wise to cold sorceresses right now due to cold mastery. Immunities breaking to 95% means you need resistance penetration from gear/infinity to deal any decent damage, but CM gives that for free. No other class gets that benefit
@Sean Caissey Yes, it is broken and it didnt do any good for the intended benefit of build diversity. Now it's just blizzard sorcs all around, even more than before.
Charms and terror zones are amazing. End game reward for end game players and it doesn’t break the game(excluding cold sorc obviously lol).
They did a good job making charms for hell only, like you kind of said it still makes immune a part of the game you have to overcome(like in nightmare/early hell).
I agree. It is awesome to see variety of builds. D2R is a reacher game now
Death lord? Oblivion knight? I think you mean meatbag1, meatbag2... sry, but I dont share your feeling.
Also laughed at this. Cold rupture + cold mastery + naked sorc (2x spirit + stealth + lore + couple res charms) = every mosnter and elite pack is a meat bag. Yep, he forget to mention cold enchanted shit you previously need to skip
Still waiting for these features to come to SP. Terror zones specifically. Would be nice to farm more areas and have that variety.
Oh my God no. Keep your trash online and please don't force me back to plugy...
@@tsizzle12345323 maybe u can turn them on/off like it is online?
Poor Bramble, the forgotten runeword. Up to -50% enemy poison resistance!
I think I used it once in 2005
Ohm Sur and body armor? wow. and 25-50 spread. Tough choice for poison character, as you probably want enigma in body slot.
I like both the terror zones and the sunder charms. I think that sunder charms could use a little more balancing, be a little more rare. As for terror zones there are a few which have very low mob density still and that is not that fun, but of course you can always just do something else in that time.
However what I always liked about Diablo 2 and disliked about Diablo 3 that Diablo 2 was the difference in difficulty. As characters get stronger the game gets easier.
So a new endgame introduced in the future would be nice. Maybe like a pvp arena and something centered around that ? Maybe a group play arena ? You can do it now I guess but the game itself doesn’t really promote that. Maybe like a matching algorithm so I can have fun but not be completely destroyed by some fully buffed characters ;)?
I couldn't agree more. Honestly, the one thing I didn't like about D2, and the only thing really, is immunities. I just hate the idea of running away from mobs because they are literally invincible. And now that is gone. it's a huge improvement, the one bad thing is gone, even if I take a year to kill it, it dies, that's all that matters to me.
Sunder charms are by far the laziest thing that the devs have done since release. I’m honestly surprised they even made it past the PTR. I understand the need to make other builds viable but this is not the way to do it. They’ve completely ruined the game with these. The main thing that made the game challenging was dealing with immunes, and now that’s not a thing at all anymore with these charms. Even infinity couldn’t break all immunes, but these do.
Also the fact that melee chars take an extra 25% physical damage at all times but then casters can just easily negate the minus to res with a couple of runes and a res jewel is ridiculous. Not to mention that all elemental damage types are not equal when receiving damage. For instance cold and poison enemies are far less of an issue than fire or lightning, which only adds to how flawed the resist penalties on these runes are.
A better balance would have been to make the sunder charm apply a -15 or even -25 to max res for that resistance type, or double the negative to res and make it -150 so that they have to make some serious gear choices to be able to use it. And even then, cold casters would suffer far less of a penalty in terms of receiving actual damage than the other types.
There’s not nearly enough of a penalty required to use one of these right now. They are also way too easy to find. As I said before, I really think the entire concept of these charms is incredibly lazy and flawed. They shouldn’t exist. They should just call it a failed experiment, delete them, and try something else in terms of rebalancing things.
My personal suggestion would just be to lower the max res on the monsters for the other types of elements so that they can be equally broken by infinity (where most can be broken but some are just high enough where they can’t be, just like it is with lightning now). Also consider maybe having one or two other items which provide conviction instead of just infinity. Or maybe an item that provides lower resist as a skill (at basically the same effective level as the conviction on infinity) to mix things up a bit and have other options available to characters. I don’t know why these options weren’t explored instead of sunder charms as they seem pretty obvious to me and don’t really have any of the major drawbacks that sunder charms do.
Yes, unfortunately lazy + entitled baby community who dislike any form of difficulty was impossible to overcome.
The real solution to build diversity and immunities was reworking sinergies and allow dual elements to be the norm without sacrificing too much damage.
With the added benefit of being able to tweaks numbers in the future to fine tune everything.
With sunder charms the only option is to remove them or allow them, casters don't care about extra damage, especially elemental one.
I like to see the poison charm reduce the duration of your poison but still give you the full damage. Would buff poison builds.
The physical is like to see it add Max damage AR or something to give it a lil bump.
Idk what to do for the magic one tbh lol
Instead of immunities I would rather have resistances that cannot be reduced by skills, items or gear, but the resistance would never be 100%, maybe 90% at tops. This way you can get through everything, but some monsters will take more effort.
As an og player I’m really happy with the changes they’ve made . Immunes have always been more then a pain, they forced players to play a handful of builds that could deal with them creating a major imbalance between builds . Fire classes always got screwed over so the charm and the new rune word flickering flame is huge for them! The thing I always loved about d2 was the huge customization of builds, but as soon as you got to hell it was like screw your build your not “optimal “ . This has been a huge and much needed change .
I think it's great that more builds can run the game.
Yes versus just Hammerdins being viable in Hell. Almost nothing is immune to Blessed Hammers & with sunder charms, Hammerdins are even more OP.
I like the sunder chams, exactly because it lets more builds work in hell.
But in a way they're just a patch on the problem Blizzard created when they introduced synergies in 1.10 and at the same time raised monster hitpoints.
Before then, every class had ways to counter immunities, and dipping into all of them was possible. You could definitely be a 3 elemental sorc back in 1.09.
This man right here gets it, i dont have to run a fireball,nova,fo sorc anymore, thank fuck
At 35, it was fun to play for about a year and run through all the classes again. Unless they added a new act/class/main boss Im not really interested.
Why are you running
Honestly, thats more than good enough value/time. D2 is best played that way for most people. The few people who enjoy the grind just have a disproportionately strong voice because they've played this game so long. Play D2R, finish, then comeback years later when the itch kicks in.
I got to level 99 with my sorc on Xbox 6 months ago before terror zones existed. I whole heartedly wish that they did exist. That grind was miserable. The same 3 bosses over and over for hundreds of hours. I can certainly appreciate being able to clear terror zones to level my future characters to 99.
Get a real job instead
@@markxv2267 I’ve had a real job for 15 years already.. I can retire in 5 years. It pays 6 figures each and every year. Why would you assume that I don’t have a job?
My argument against immunities is that a monster you can't kill is not hard, it is just annoying. There is nothing hard since 99% of the time you are encouraged to just skip it, walk past it. You've said so yourself Llama in your guided playthroughs when encountering immunes or asked about it, most of the time you say "just ignore them". In fact i would argue that a 95% Res monsters is harder than an immune one since you are actually encouraged to stick around and try to fight the 95% Res one.
I think you realized this yourself in this video when talking about how monsters still felt unique and challenging after they removed the immunity with the charm, and it makes sense, all the uniquenes you mention in this video about different monsters feeling different comes from actual gameplay mechanics that were designed pre immunities were added to the game.
24k Aoe ranged CC ability that slows everything.... nope perfectly fine. lol ... mb I forgot removing their resistances to -100
Thanks for the vid & info i finally had someone explain it fully
Immunities are vital for the beginning of ladder for me. Having a team of 8 people who have to coordinate in order to play efficiently beings a lot to the table. The fact that in HC we have a salvation pally, oak druid, Bo barb sorcs for Tele, this team harmonizing in a way that makes it possible to walk through the game with next to no gear, basically without stopping at all until hell baal is dead is what keeps me coming back. My friends and I all practicing and coming together to do practice runs for a few weeks before ladder start.
My team was actually first to kill hell baal on hc this ladder. We did it in 3 hours 29 mins.
Not if you're a Hammerdin. They're OP af and can solo the entire game.
If you're a casual gamer who doesn't have time get decked out in facets, griffons, infinity, Phoenix shield, 6 socketed facets crystal sword, d web, etc. Then the gap between cold sorc and all else has gotten wider, thus reducing build diversity. However, yes, in the GG geared players it definitely does increase diversity and choices. For example, giving a budget fire druid a sunder charm doesn't mean he can farm river of flame (especially with res penalty). But a cold sorc could
That doesnt make sense. Fire druid can clear chaos sanctuary hell with exception of fire immunes just like cold sorc with except of cold immune. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Fire druid is as strong as cold sorc. Sunder charms work the same regardless if you're fire druid or cold sorc. It just breaks immunities. The only class that it might not help is trapizin. Fire druid is exactly same as fire sorc. Neither has cold mastery and both fire sorc, fire druid and cold sorc or any other casters face same issues with immunities the same. If a mob is cold immune, prior to sunder, there's nothing you can do about it and even with conviction aura infinity polearm, it still does squat against alot of cold immunes prior to sunders.
If they introduced the magic facet to solve the magic sunder problem, that'd be an interesting set of counter complaints.
great idea 5/5 magic jewels too bad hammerdin relies on rune word gear though
Watch out for those cold immune Gargoyle Traps still!
Have played diablo on and off since it came out. Have never owned anything that involved a rune above ohm/ist. Never had an infinity, etc. I love you llama but I think sometimes crazy high level players like yourself forget there is a plethora of players out there that never get perfect gear and more options out there to kill some immunities I think is a good thing.
he is a speed runner, almost all of his play time is way underleveled and basic crap gear, even worse than the normal players gear. He of course knows well about being underpowered against immunes.
@@MrLostform I understand that. What I'm trying to say is the majority of players can't spend time farming lower kurast for 20 hours just to get a few runes. We just log in for 30-60 minutes when our kids are napping to kill some stuff haha
@@rileylaforge7640 i agree people play the game way less than content streamers, but I think mrllama is keenly aware of the challenge of the game without perfect gear, it is kind of his specialty. As opposed to your quote: "forget there is a plethora of players out there that never get perfect gear".
edit: i dont disagree with your opinion necessarily, just the objective fact that most of this dudes content is with worse than casual players gear
I agree. The fact that sunders only drop to 95% make them completely reasonable additions to the game. I do feel that Cold Mastery should get the same treatment as Infinity/Conviction/Lower Resist. As for creating S- Tier builds for non-Paladin/Sorceress, I think the easiest solution is still to significantly buff Elite Item Sets, Class-Specific Uniques, or Class-Specific Runewords for those 5 classes.
Sunder charms opened up the game for me. I've been playing this game off and on since original release and typically get stuck, then bored, and then quit upon reaching hell. So while i can appreciate different points of view on the subject mine is pretty simple. I can actually play the game and enjoy it. Where i couldn't before.
Nice to hear your point of view!
Sunder charms are magnificent. I love them. However, it is true that the -cold res is stronger than other masteries and they need to buff them. What I believe is also essential is that they should change the -res on charms and make it not be fixed. Cold res is less important than light and fire res for players. This is an additional advantage. They should either have -all res (not 90 of course) or make it minus a random resistance and not a fixed one.
i agree in theory, but in reality people just destroy enemies with almost zero effort and jusut skip the immunes. Especially since everyone is using teleport from enigma
Everyone has an enigma? Thats impressive.
the problem is terrorzones though. Imagine it goes pit -> crystaline -> ancient way -> glacial trail -> forgotten tower.
Now your cold character is in town going well damn, guess i can farm baal.
My friend came up with the idea of adding cube recipes using sunder charms to make items that can lower enemy resists. I think it's a cool idea. You could make rings or something with like -5 to enemy X resistances. There could be a rework of unique, set, and crafted items to add more lower resist items.
Right now cold sorc probably has it a little too easy.
Lightning characters that can use Crescent Moon can have an okay time, but ultimately even with sunder charms, lightning and fire characters will require substantial investment to reduce resists to a workable level.
Totally agree.. congrats on the WR.. cheers !
My main character this ladder has been a trapsin. I found a lightning sunder and ran it for a while but I found with no other negative to enemy lightning resistance that it was faster to use fire blast to kill one and death sentry. Also with crap gear it wasn't easy to make up the lightning res on my part. I do think they are a good addition to the game overall. I started a sorc so I'm going to see how well the cold works.
Immunes was never a challange. You just ran away, that's not hard. Monsters need to be challengeing in other aspects, than being immune. Dmg reflect, super fast moveing and attacking, super tanky, high dmg, piercing your res, etc...
Nobody likes reflect in any game ever. People have complained forever about having to just avoid reflect in Poe and D3. They literally removed iron maiden because that shit made melee even more aids to play. Extra fast mobs are already really fast and scary, especially when they spawn with other specific mods. We already have stone skin and magic resistance for tankiness, we have extra strong, we have conviction auras. Do you even play D2 or ARPGs?
@@Yepmyaccount i know we have these, but it should be more, as in how challengeing an encounter is, these affixes should be leaned on more. There could be new affixes added and whatnot. Not just slaping an immunity on, so now you have to ignore a bunch of monsters.
try running away from the ghosts in arcane. Never gonna find the summoner that way. Can't run away from a physical immune Lister in wave 5. Plenty of scenarios where you can't just bypass.
@@10ajmein Very sporatic occasios. So factualy you are correct. But eventualy you'll stay away from areas your build can't handle complety. Because relying on Merc AI is not the best option. That said Sunder charms are also not the best idea to deal with immunes. I saw a lot of better ideas from the community.
The immunity's is part 2 of d2 next to the drop calculator. I fill like they may have broken the game. But I have not played much this session. I have /working on a enchant sorc. What should I put leftover skill in to ? Es, fb/meteor or orb ? I previusly tried a very low dmg fire wall(leaf staff) fire ball sorc for mote trick on mapisto and took for ever as he keep dodging FB.
PRE1 10 immunities weren't part of d2. At least not multiple immunities and synergies also weren't so doing a lightning cold sorc was perfectly viable
What was ruined was the last second change to the Sunders leaving Cold Mastery untouched.
Now there are thousands of players, and tens of thousands of bots, that are all just cold sorcs while other builds are expensive to create in response.
Honestly they should consider expanding this old classic by adding hell+ mode that is a true challenge with some new loot.
Real immunities on hell+?
I have just recently started this ladder and have luckily found a poison sunderer. Always wanted to do a pb necro last ladder and now I for sure will! gonna be interesting for sure!
mby im wrong (did not play diablo for a decsde now), but necro was like only character that was rly able to do "single element" for whole game, because of lower res and because of fact that corpse explosion do same dmg on all levels.
Initially I thought that sunder would do good to the game but I am not so sure: when enemies are sundered, you can/will use only 1 skill, your most damaging one, regardless of the monster type; monoskill + ignoring monster type = boring and mindless.
Instead of sunder charms, they should have improved for each class a secondary viable damage type, to be used when your primary one doesn't work (fire/cold sorc is quite the example here). You would have to sacrifice skill points but that wouldn't be necessary bad.
Synergies ruined this game... before you could run bi/tri element builds and didn't even need infinity... the game was funnier and less frustrating. Spending 60/80 points in some skills you'll rarely use just to max your main skill damage is absurd and, at the same time, you can't spend those points in a better way, like some utility or defensive skill...
@@JosephMagicFlower great point
how many points into cold mastery did he have? not % i want to know points he put in
Llama and dabrunski crying. They need to get over it. This was a fun limited time event to shake up the game play a bit. Using the same builds and farming the same zones for 20 years got stale.
I find it funny these guys are ok letting their chat carry them to 99 and don't fight against RMT, bots, and FG ruining the game economy but the second there's a tiny bit of fun or something different from 20 years ago they cry about it
For physical sunder, damage taken is too high but Stormshield and a DR belt negate the damage and leave you with comfortable DR overall.
For a character like a fury Druid, I would definitely keep the charm equipped so that I can have a merc with something other than reapers toll.
I think it would help with Ubers as well. Fury Druid was my Uber character and the difference between Ubers instantly melting and taking forever is how often the physical immune mobs hit you. Reaper toll merc fixed this if the merc survives but it would be nice to have physical sunder and new merc weapon options beyond reapers toll.
you should still run a source of decrep even with the charm... 95% is still way too much and if i am not wrong decrep doesnt work at 1/4 so its super useful.
6:26 i suggest add rbf jewel to the game -(3-5)% enemy magic ress / + (3-5)% magic damage
so necro can combine it with sunder charm magic for example:
Crown of Ages + rbf -10% (2x jewel)
Black Hades 3 sox -15% (3x jewel) / or / Spirit Forge 2 sox -10% (2x jewel)
Boneflame + rbf -5% (1x jewel)
any Wand + rbf -5% (1x jewel)
so additional -30% enemy magic res. I know this is not a solution for everything but first step to let them something better works.
if we have more ways to reduce magic res after sunder immune i think blizzard could add some little more magic immune enemies. Also i think that we don't have really good uniqe items for that build.
we have still some not used based armores which they doesn't have their uniqe versions
Archon Plate (uniqe version)
+100-150% Enhanced Defense
+1 To All Skill Levels
-(7-15)% To Enemy Magic Resistance
+(10-15) To Vitality
+20% Faster Hit Recovery
+20% Better Chance Of Getting Magic Items
Socketed (4)
There is can be done even more. Maybe open more builds with magic damage?
Just made the cold mastery can only pen 1/5 again sundered cold enemy. Like conviction and lower res. So cold wont be too overpowered
I feel like maybe Sunder Charms should also cap the resistance reduction to +50% or 0% so you can't push right down to -100%. That way you'd be able to do those areas with any character, but you'd at least have to put some more effort in to kill the formerly immune creatures. Being able to get a formerly immune creature to -100 seems ridiculous. But then, I don't play ladder and haven't experienced any of this, so what do I know?
Summoner Necros and Throw barbs can use the physical sunder charm. It's probably bad for all melee though.
U forgot shockwave werebear
I both like and dislike immunities for a few reasons.
I totally agree with you that, while leveling up, having to deal with certain immunities CAN be interesting. Can be.
I know my Barb didn’t feel like I was absolutely screwed when I encountered physical immunity, but my Lightning Javazon felt totally bogged down and useless. This was prior to any changes, so I can’t speak on whether this has gotten better with the Amazon changes.
I just know I legitimately felt like quitting in Act 2 Hell because having to jab my way through a series of lightning immune monsters was absolutely miserable. Slowed down the pace of the game dramatically for me.
This wouldn’t have been such a huge deal if respecs weren’t as limited as they are while leveling up as well. I can’t think of a good way to handle this, however. The way respec works is fundamental to the enjoyment of D2 in my opinion as well. You’ve spent all of this time and energy learning to master a Javelin, it doesn’t make sense to go back to town and magically become a god with a bow and arrows and then switch back and forth constantly.
I don’t have a real solution to this problem, I just know I didn’t like getting bogged down in the middle of leveling with what felt like no good option outside of having a friend.
Where I really don’t enjoy immunities though is during the end game. I totally understand the tactical decision making process while leveling, but I’m not a fan of having some content just basically be inaccessible to farm based on your build.
I think having those rotating terror zones does a decent enough job at varying your farming spots so that you every build isn’t stuck farming the exact same area: that being the highest level area with the most monster density.
I think it does an okay job.
I also would say that I’m not surprised that the enemies do feel unique regardless of whether or not they’re immune for the sole reason that the blanket immunity thing was not introduced from the very beginning of D2’s life.
I think its a testament to the original development teams knowledge, understanding, and skill at game design.
Even with a very limited set of actions (monsters basically move, attack, and get hit with usually one basic attack and sometimes one or two special attacks) they were able to make monsters feel dramatically different in how you engaged or wanted to engage them.
They don’t all feel like identical pincushions for you to mindlessly slaughter, and that’s kinda cool considering that, with the tech they had back then, that’s essentially all that they were.
Meanwhile a zon with infinity on merc was still wildly overpowered and still is.
@@ProjektVapor but but but blizz sorcs.
Hammerdin still top 1
But but blizz sorc
Fire sorc with infi and flicker clears faster
But but blizz sorc
Fire druid even clears faster.
But but blizz sorc
Light sorc more op than ever
But but blizz sorc
Literally blizz sorc gets the first week of ladder. And people are crying. After that blizz sorc aint shit.
My buddy plays fire sorc with flicker and tal rasha 3 set with orb for extra 15% fire reduce and he destroys everything faster than me.
I think you are completely missing the point here Llama. What we wanted before are build diversity and Sunder Charms was supposed to fix that but what happened is now people only play Cold Sorc. Literally.
Yep, cold sorceresses everywhere. Even more than before. They opened new builds - well, thanks for that, but they make cold even more OP, that unintentional and must be confessed
People say they want build diversity but they pick power way more of the time. The biggest problem is that the loot system in D2 make it necessary to farm for most intermediate and up gear and because most monsters are worth skipping, you really want teleport for most builds. Blizz was king for DPS with mediocre great + teleport. Sunder charms just make it so you can farm where-ever you feel like with Blizz sorc.
I built a cold sorc first for obvious reasons, however I still want to explore other builds with the charms as well.
Mass immunities as they exist in the game since 1.10 are absolute trash. I would say maybe unique or champion packs being immune would be okay but huge swaths of the game just being mass immune just create unnecessary difficulty.
For the magic sunder charm, what about a bone spear necro with lower resist? Will that make the charm useful?
Lower res doesnt lower magic.
Lower res will only lower the resistances you can find on your own character sheet
11:10 isn’t Tyreal’s Might a unique sacred armor??
Came here to say this. Templar/Tyraels. Might have just been a jab because those items are so bad for how rare they are.
the game is already hard enough for physical damage dealers! D2's biggest weakness is the gap between casters and physical, and they just made it even larger. Physical sunder charm should sunder immunities + add splash damage with no drawbacks perhaps. But really the issue needs to be resolved on a more fundamental level. Physical needs more toughness and needs more AoE. It's absurd that the fastest clearers, best mobility and even toughest characters (immortal sorc and various paladin casters) are all casters! Only place physical shines is on a few troll builds in Ubers that are basically useless everywhere else
Nobody remembers the minus 20 to 25 poison res on grief...pop dual grief on an act 5 merc and they will have very high damage as well as help lower resists. Pair that with a deaths web for an instant at least minus 80 to poison res. Poison sunder, deaths web, dual grief on a5 merc equals bringing poison immunes down to 15 or lower poison res. A few poison facets or an infinity will quickly have previously poison immune enemies left with negative poison res
someone doesn't remember that minus resists only work for the one wearing the gear :).
I think they did mostly okay with Sunder charms. I think the magic and physical sunders need some rework. But overall I'm happy.
I went Hydra sorc route this ladder, and i found the best way to counter the -firs resist from fire sunder is to make a Flickering flame. So now im working on getting the -enemy resist, so phoenix for sure. But Hydra or any firesorc for that matter should absolutely slap this season. So far its been an absolute blast!
I'm still trying to get there, but my plan is to use the fire Sunder + Tal's wand, armor and belt to get the monsters to 80% fire res and leave room to use either a facet on those aforementioned tal pieces to use Shako or use flickering flame and put Ists or ptopazes on them to get more MF. That, of course, before getting the wealth for a Phoenix Shield. Let me know if you've tried that
I'll handle the - enemy fire res with aldurs and fire res grand charms
Leave cold sorc op, let other character be op at a lower budget with sime cheaper runewords with -res, then add some more endgame to it. U still have to go through all hell immunities for the first time and then farm them a lot in the terror zones until u can play the game with ur favourite build normally.
The sunder charm drop rate was the biggest problem. I got like 8 in a day AFTER the patch as a crappy hammerdin. But now HR aren't as expensive which is GOOD
As far as monster immunity goes, the monsters felt unique in normal and NM so there is no reason to think they won't feel unique in Hell. The core mechanic was there all along, all that changed is that one element doesn't do damage. I think that is the least impactful part of the monster design.
I think, if sunders are gonna be so common, they should reduce 3 random player immunities. i.e. a Cold Rupture does the -75 enemy cold res, but then also does (-85 to -65 poison), (-85 to -65 fire) and (-30-20 phys), again random rolls, or something along those lines. Like let it all roll random. There's no way these MF bliz sorcs should be getting off so easy. At least a lite sorc has to deal with insane soul damage and/or stack up their lite immune/sorb. Then obviously any sunder charm that does -cold, -poison, -magic player resist are going to be more desirable, so at least we're adding more value to them via a random nature
Hybrid builds show up to work.
Blizzard: Thank you for you 22 years of service, but your jobs have been outsourced to Sunder charms.
Hybrid builds: T_T
Yeah, I was enjoyed hydra/ice blast hybring for a while. Now what. (I mean I will continue enjoying it, but it became excess and inefficient)
People are complaining but originally we hated when they made immunities so prolific. So the real D2 purists actually don't like immunities that much.
Some level of immunities is fine buy current hell is just badly designed.
@@unixtreme In D1 most monsters had immunities and that was fine. Though every char had access to every spell... If only 'charge' system has some rework.
I for one would like to see these cold Sunder charms in action on a cold sorc
sunder charms meant that day 2 of ladder i was doing p8 cs runs solo with cold sorc(full tals + sunder), game feels too easy and i don't feel like making another char since cold sorc is so powerfull and anything i could make feels weak: slow or low mf(except mf barb but i did that last season and i don't want to do it again)
To each is own, im having a blast with a fire druid, have a ravenlore with a facet + sunder charm, still working on getting enigma and phoenix, its a blast and something other than the standard meta sorc.
You play to be powerfull, because it's your job or for fun/having a challenge? Why don't you play ssf or maybe hc ssf? Or, even better, sp hc ssf...
I will say this season I’ve seen a lot more friends playing the game and when I ask them it’s because they’re excited about the sundered charms.
My Thoughts summed up:
- Terror Zones are a great addition for leveling when you are 90+. Making other areas a worth option to farm could have been achieved by making more areas lvl 85 areas.
- Charms basically add nothing to the game for most builds. I dont see any more build diversity all i see are 6 out of 8 players using blizz sorc in public, because people love easy op stuff.
Also bad builds are still bad and op builds are still op...who whould have seen this coming
- you would achieve much more build diversity if you would buff the bad builds to become somewhat good. also having high difficulty in the game will help with build diversity as long as you give players a solution for their builds and certain scenarios. some of the best examples are trapsin or bowzon(elemental), where you can easily play all content in the game as long as you use 5% of your brain. So the solution for bringing more bowzon into the game would be to buff the dual spec to be on par with other top builds and not bring a sunder charm which doesnt help the build besides the fact that you have 40 unspent skillpoints and doesnt need to change you attack depending on the enemy you face.
I’m still waiting for vids on decked out fire sorc. I started with fire sorc this season thinking sunders would make it playable but I literally camped stony tomb and Andy before switching to blizz. TZ I’m enjoying. I think it’s perfect for people who play solo a lot. Im already lvl 89 without a single Baal run or 8 player game. Imho I think they should leave only elemental sunders. They should add 2 separate items for physical and magical coming from TZ like sunders but not sunders. Gives loot variety making everything rarer.
A full tals + phoenix fire sorc is what I am going for this season. Will result in one frame slower cast rate. But you should be absolutely destroy everything.
Built a frozen orb/hydra sorc to slog through hell...but now that I'm just grinding farms I would like to focus on just one main build
Excause me... The poison nekro Has curses with lower resist or? ;-)
just exclude the champions. then its fine