Does Hyperspace Tracking even make sense? | Star Wars The Last Jedi Lore
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- Опубліковано 1 кві 2019
- The First Order's hyperspace tracking in The Last Jedi allowed them to hunt and destroy the Resistance Fleet. But, does Hyperspace Tracking even make sense? We discuss that and more on today's Star Wars Lore video!
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Did you miss Battle of the Dreadnoughts? Watch it now: ua-cam.com/video/5Jlo081vSQQ/v-deo.html
EckhartsLadder can you please do my suggestion? Thanks!
Hey Daddy Eck
Hey Eck
EckhartsLadder always has the best thumbnails.
Can you another battle of the dreadnoughts next year? But do the Covenant super carrier from Halo reach vs The Supremacy from star wars cannon.
Someone on the Raddus forgot to turn off location services and the Empire has realtime access to Goggle map data
Christopher Nemeth I don’t recall the empire being in that movie hmmmmm
*remnant autocrat rebels
Not empire
I think most people knew what I meant. And I did write this half asleep after my 60 plus hour work week
They still got the find my friends app on Finns old work phone
Is there any more information on S-thread trackers?
*The First Order wants to know your location*
Can't they just track it?
It's too late. You're already known.
Fin accidentally left his phone's location on.
MarkedNomad36 they can break star wars logic i think they can find him without him telling them.
The first order knowes your location.
Anything can make sense if you find a crazy enough legends thing
I'm a Legends fan and any weird shit that Disney throws at me can't faze me. We got brothers trying to get sisters (Sweet Alabama begins), Sith literally destroying or razing worlds with the Force, and people falling from orbit and zombies. Don't ever forget Death Troopers 😎
Legends fans have *seen some shit" 👀
@@blackshogun272 I'm afraid there won't be a thing in Cannon that will be able to contest with the weirdest stuff from Legends.
BlackShogun 27 That’s something that always bothered me about the old canon/legends stories, the apparent powers of the Jedi and Sith shown and described make the supposedly Uber powerful film characters seem pitiful in comparison.
@@marcosbravo9645
Canon: *Introduces Celestial aided time travel*
Legends: Hold my beer
*Hyperspace time travel, Black Holes being moved around like kiddie pools, 5th Dimensional Beings that see 3rd dimension suffering as sick kicks, Actual Grey Aliens (Columi), and bug people that will wait eons to awaken again and conquer worlds with limited diversity and pure brute "force" and "conscription"*
👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀
@@blackshogun272 that's the point, Sargent.
It would have been way cooler if Finn had been an unwitting sleeper agent who was influenced by a behavioral modification trigger to plant a tracking beacon shortly after waking up.
But where would he have gotten the tracking bacon?
@@akirawolf9828 Remember the beacon he was gonna leave for Rey? In this scenario, he would've only thought that was why he had it. The Supremacy had already found the Resistance fleet by then and perhaps while in a fugh state, he activated it earlier.
Congratulations, you just made the sequels a little bit better, it's a shame that's not canon though.
That undermines his character arc though.
@@zacharyviii5495 It wouldn't if they then introduced a story arc in Episoded IX where he overcomes the mental conditioning once and for all. The Secret sleeper agent story element would also better explain how someone who was trained from birth to be a merciless killing machine word hesitate to kill and eventually defect. He did after all proceed to rescue a highly valued pilot and in doing so gained the trust of General Leia herself. The sort of child soldier that a First Order Stormtrooper is would not hesitate to kill people they are told to kill and Finn is most definitely a child soldier.
I think it would have made more sense if they had just hacked their navigational computer. But then as a war tactic to get inside their heads, made the claim that they could now track them through hyperspace.
This would justify the First Order knowing their pinpoint location at all times and also made them seem more like a competent treat.
Now this explanation I can get behind.
Didn't Leia have a hyperspace beacon or some shit that would allow Rey to find them again? Why couldn't the first order have just locked onto the same signal to track them?
@@CedarHunt it would been the second time some massive army tracks Leia to her allies
Or have a mole on board the raddus who is leaking the information and the tracking thing is to throw off suspicion
@@EliWintercross I got the feeling that was what was originally intended but they must have changed their mind on it at some point. Who can say but it's some terrible writing
You forgot to use *THAT* SpaceBalls clip of Dark Helmet watching the VHS tape
Yeah, the explanation from the novelisation doesn't match what we see in the movie at all. If the hyperspace tracker relied on the Supremacy's vast databanks, they'd never have been able to track the fleet in the first place, as the Supremacy wasn't there when they jumped out. And the whole "tracking from the lead ship" concept only makes sense if it's an active tracking system that's maintaining a lock on them.
It seems a lot simpler for it to be a system that actively tracks a ship's wake or energy signature through hyperspace.
We are trying to rationalize something that has no logic to it. This is such incredibly poor writing it hurts me to my core. My 14 year old nephew came up with a better story than the TLJ. When thats something that can happen you know you fucked up. Hopefully JJ can pull some serious magic out of his ass and make this trilogy somewhat not complete shit.
They probably just scanned the raddus when it jumped into hyperspace and send the data to the supremacy to find they're fleet
Yeah, considering Hyperspace is not well explained in Star Wars, trying to rationalised based on what they've come up just makes it harder to grasp on and more confusing. It's better to just use The Force than what they come up with. Unless they make use of secret ancient network of sensors around the galaxy to able to triangulate their location, trying to have a pin-point tracking among countless of possible destination is almost impossible, they better just consider it as magic which makes it more sense.
They can just also make an explanation that they do secretly hack into the targeted navigation computer of the ship they want to track.
It wasn't just in databases, it was an advanced stochastic prediction machine, that used all the data to predict future jumps and locations.
@@chrissonofpear1384 Yeah, but at that point what you've got isn't a hyperspace tracking machine, it's a general what-will-they-do-next prediction machine. If it can reliably predict the course they would take to reach a secret Resistance base, they wouldn't have any secret bases in the first place.
Looks at the words "the last Jedi"
Ah shit here we go again
*luke standing in front of CJ*
oooooooooh
Yes, because Hyperspace Tracking was the biggest problem we had with this movie...
@@prophetofbeans6781 you mean you not "we"
You N'wah No he didn’t meant you, You, he meant we as in pretty much all Star Wars enthusiasts aged more than 12
From what I am hearing Ecks, the whole thing, taken into consideration, seems to rely on way too many assumptions. The computer could have easily overshot the Raddus's location by several hundred light years, since Crait, the actual location the Resistance flotilla dropped from, and Sullust were all very likely locations. And the First Order could NOT have known how much fuel they actually had for the jumps. So, this means I cannot, based on the evidence given to me here, believe that the First Order could have reliably tracked their targets with THAT much precision. Predictive trajectories I can believe. It would give you a rough area of search and a limited cone of planets to choose from, reducing the possible locations from trillions, to thousands, and then logical deduction can help from there. Obvious no goes can be eliminated, such as enemy held locations or simply inaccessible points. From there, you would need eyes on the other side of the possible path to give you a better idea.
Thats the problem. Also as we have seen with Han and starkillerbase, you can press the stop button to exit hyperspace abruptly instead of safe so its possible to stop in the middle of nowhere. So the computer can calculate the route like a line A >----------------------------------------> B however, unless it can read thoughts of the ship crew, it can only guess at which point of the line do they stop. Do they fly from A to B or stop in the middle of the route? Do they stop after 10% of the way? Again, it can calculate the vector and thus possible ending destination but it can't predict if they actuall fly to this point or stop ealrier which might be e.g. 500 lightyears away from the calculated destination.
Hyperspace in SW... tends to change to fit the story. A lot of "science" in Star Wars tends to change or be purposefully vague based on what is needed at the time, which is why so many stories can be made in the universe. Double edged sword.
Hyperspace rarely makes sense. Not only in SW, but in any sci-fi, and the justifications for it get insanely complex and contradictory as time goes on.
In my mind, Hyperspace lanes were courses between systems which were clear of major problems, such as black holes, pulsars, etc. In the novels I read the way the characters get around the tracking devices (specifically tracking via course and trajectory) is to make a small hyper jump in a random vector, cut that jump short, or only have it last a couple of minutes, exit hyper than calculate a jump for their intended destination. Otherwise, the Rebel's Hit-and-Run tactics will be useless. They would be leading enemy ships back to their staging area.
A competent leader, who's evacuating a base from impending assault, would have had planned the micro-jump and actual destination. The standing orders would be to not hyper towards their destination be to hyper out on a random direction. Why else would the Rebel's be able to Flee from the Imperial forces from Hoth? All Darth Vader needed to do was order Imperial assets to the "likely" destination the Rebel Transports were heading to.
This makes the entire hyper-tracker useless. Hell! Snoke's Ship wasn't there when the Resistance fled, so why did Poe, Finn, and Rose believe they had to board the "lead ship", other than for plot reasons?
Babylon 5 made the most sense, I think. A sorta separate dimension where distances were much, much shorter. You either needed a large enough ship or physical gates.
@@Mahbu,
I don't remember Babylon 5 well. I've been reading David Weber and his ships and hyper system works well. Hyperspace is another dimension where distance between points are different, and is formed by the space-time bending effect of gravity.
Only way battles happen in hyperspace is for an enemy to *know* the travel plans of their opponent.
A lot of stuff in SW doesn't make sense because SW is, and always has been, science fantasy. The mysticism and characters are suppose to be the significant part of this universe, not the technical stuff hundreds of other stories cover. Until TLJ, we aren't specifically told what star ships run on and how they work, and we don't need to know. Hyperspace tracking isn't a new concept, but what we got in the movie isn't actual tracking, so not sure why it was such a problem.
Slipspace in Halo makes perfect sense.
I feel like a potential way that writers could explain general hyperspace tracking in future could be the following:
Before entering hyperspace, you need to determine how far you want to go (such as a destination solution or by manually pumping power to the hyperdrive), and then point your ship in the direction of intended travel. So, depending on the model of engines that your ship has, you would need to supply x amount of power to go y distance along z trajectory.
Now, once power has been supplied to the needed levels, and you jump to hyperspace, a proportional amount of radiation is released based on your energy input and engine model.
So by this method, by knowing information about the ship you want to track (such as engine model, how much power has to be put in to travel distances, the ship mass and how that mass relates to energy requirements for hyperspace), you can then use the radiation output combined with trajectory information to discover the intended location of the jump.
This of course would require super powerful ship sensors to measure the jump trajectory (because a hair of a degree of inaccuracy would create light years of variation over long enough distances) thus justifying having such huge ships; because they are full of high powered sensors. Also, you would need detailed technical information on your target, which would be easier to get for something like a mass produced Star Destroyer or Mon Cal cruiser and thus they would be easier to track, however it would make tracking a heavily modified ship such as the Falcon much harder to track because you wouldn’t be able to so easily get all of its specs.
No, Hyperspace tracking doesn't make sense.
Hyperspace lanes are known good routes. There are multiple jumps and the enter and exit points are usually well regulated, with bases, beacons and two way communication, to prevent collisions. They are safe, but slow. Traveling outside these corridors leaves no trace, but you need to know the safe routes, and they are kept secret by the factions using them.
Now, since Rebels are aware that the vector could show their destination, they could easily do multiple jumps in different directions. We know the new tracker must be working when the jump to hyperspace is done, so if they jump before their chasers arrive, they can get away.
(And leaving a trace that could be tracked later would ruin Rose plan, too.)
The Crait planet base was supposed to be a secret, so it should not have been on any map the FO had.
What makes even less sense is that the whole FO fleet jumped to the Rebels jump destination, before the Rebels have arrived there. We are shown that this jump took quite a while.
The simplest explanation is that there has been a spy in the Rebel fleet that had their own cloaked beacon. It makes sense if the spy is Rose.
If there is a widespread enough S-thread booster network, could THAT be hacked and used for detection?
I heard somewhere it was an old rebel base, and they're not the rebels, they're the resistant, same goal but different name. Anywho, i hear somewhere that the First Order has all military knowledge ever recorded from the CIS, Republic, Empire, and Rebels. So that would've let them narrow down if the ships present at the begining battle reported the path they took to the supremacy and they followed it, scanning for the matter that hyperdrives emit. Once the matter stopped being tracked at moving FTL they knew they got out of hyperspace and into real space, scanning that to an absolute point and jumped there.
It would certainly help, I guess.
@@sashabraus9422, Lea, Ackbar (and probably few others) are high ranking leaders of the old Rebels, so they are Rebels. Also at the end of TLJ everybody uses the Rebel designation anyway.
If the old Rebels had turned the locations of their secret bases to the Republic, it would have been unimaginable stupidity to use a base that is matter of public record.
Hyperdrivers does not emit matter. The video clearly explains how the new tracker works. Your head canon is fiction.
Have in mind. The FO flotilla was not there when the Rebels jumped. The FO ships might have jumped from different locations. Yet they all arrived seconds after the Rebels exited hyperspace, after quite long trip.
I think there was a scene where Hux was explaining to Snoke about the tracker and that implies at least about half an hour of additional delay, before they were ready to jump.
The whole plot is made of hand waving logic and details.
The novelization did say that Leia had kept a few secret details and locations out of the New Republic records as insurance.
Battle of the dreadnought was awesome
Loved it, Really hope we get Battle of the Dreadnoughts II!
@@echosdatacore2056
Oh yeah definitely they left an opening for part 2
@@timbartschwolfman, Hail to the Empire
@@echosdatacore2056
For the REBELLION
@@timbartschwolfman Ur a member of the Rebel Alliance and a traitor! Take him/her away!
i love how serious,calm and proffesional eckharts sounds while it uses a doge face.
i just love it
Me: Checks my subscriptions
Eckhart: posts a video
Me: ah good. Our first catch of the day
I would determine, from a writers perspective, you are faced with an Occum’s Razor dilemma; the simplest solution being Force tracking. Such as Ben, Snoke or even the Seers/Oracles to have been able to have preeminence or foresee the exit of the Resistance fleet. A simple evolution of the Thrawn: Alliances Chiss Ascendency Force navigators capabilities.
However, the choice was deliberately made to forego an overuse of the Force and instead focus on technological advancement. Now this hyperspace tracking technology would see its best use when employed against an enemy whose primary tactic is guerrillera warfare or strategic hyperspace evasion and ambush.
Which from a writing standpoint, indicates they are really pushing the Resistances role as an underdog and its similarity to the Alliance to Restore the Republic. Which currently doesn’t seem to have been thoroughly nor convincingly written as necessary. I would argue further to say it is narratively trivial and illogical.
Another alternative that I think supports your previous video on the Supremacy. Is that if the Supremacy is a ship that was to be used for navigating the Unknown Regions or the Space between Galaxies, the computer is probably used to determine safe hyperspace routes. And so however hyperspace routes are discovered (potentially through use of some hyperspace capable probe) the computer used the Resistance fleet as a variable in that analysis and so reversed engineered to determine location... potentially...
Yet, I do not think that is the narrative that Disney is writing into the Sequels.
Anyways nice vid Eck.
Also, Force tracking would've made more sense due to Leia's Force sensitivity.
*382* attempt at Forerunners vs. Warhammer 40k.
Idea origin: Thor's Hammer!!
Forerunners can defeat a United 40K galaxy barring chaos.
If you give them time, maybe they may even be able to deal with chaos as well. Maybe another Halo array and wipe all life at once and shock the Choas gods to death.
@@wallsofmine I disagree completely unless your going to say oh but they'd use the halo rings but even then that's not a win because they'd be wiped out aswell
@@bencampbell3084 No, I'm saying straight up militarily they can defeat a United 40K galaxy.
@@wallsofmine I still disagree if you said the imperium on its own maybe but the entire galaxy United they wouldn't stand a chance
@@bencampbell3084
Reasons?
Type-47A(H2) scarab vs type-47B(H3,reach,odst) scarab vs Banished scarab vs Volatile scarab
It was a matter of plot convenience, nothing more. It was convenient to the story that the First Order be able to track the Resistance through hyperspace, so they could.
If the First Order had mined the possible escape vectors from the Resistance base with gravity mines that could transmit coordinates via subspace before their attack, and then followed the fleet with gravity well capable ships once they reached them, they would have achieved the exact same result using existing technology instead making up some new nonsensical thing.
"If only they had included MY nonsense, instead of their OWN nonsense, which is just NONSENSE!!!1!"
That's what you sound like
@@DinoDudeDillon it's not "my" nonsense, you incredibly "smart" person, It's canon nonsense.
@@mrmact23 uhh ... so is the last jedi. Canon changes with each new movie. Always has.
@@DinoDudeDillon do you have something better to do than pick fights with someone who made a comment on a youtube video a year ago?
Guess not.
Yes, they have a better sense of smell than a doggo
Actually Echs the first "hyperspace" tracking was EP4 wherein the old version (OG) the Empire physically placed a tracker on the MF, while in the newer version they shot the tracker on to the hull. it allowed the Empire to find the hidden rebel Yavin base
Han Solo could also tell if the Star Destroyers were still following him or not while the Falcon was still in hyperspace, which definitely suggests that ships in hyperspace can detect each other without any special equipment.
#AskEck
Can you talk about our lord and savior: The Halo Valiant Class Superheavy Cruiser/Battlecruiser?
TheRed Hawk no
@@sidonex726 no
lets send some love to this dude, he rewatched the last jedi for us after all
If the First Order had Hyperspace Tracking on all of their ships then it makes you wonder how Finn and Rey escaped from Jakku.
It was just the Supremacy which had Hyperspace Tracking not all of them
@@crypticwilson4231 No, TLJ states that if they just disable the tracker in Snokes ship they would just turn it on in the others, that is why they had to do it secretly.
@@frozengrip2609 Oh ok I had forgot about that. Anyway, maybe Hyperspace Tracking is only effective for big capital ships like the Raddus, I'm sure they could come up a reason like that to explain things.
FrozenGrip You are misrepresenting the dialogue, the line is exactly “Finn: I like where you are heading, but no. They would only start tracking us from another destroyer.”
Nowhere does it say that ALL destroyers have this tracking system, and considering these two characters only just found out about the technology and only from other characters that intuited the existence of this new technology this is in canon 100% supposition on the part of the characters and you as the viewer know this.
They assumed that some other ship in the fleet or several or even all star destroyers would have this tech, because they don’t know that it’s a massive system contained entirely to the Supremacy. They HAVE to assume that any other ship could potentially track them.
@@DrewLSsix Erm what xd? This is all based on your assumption/headcanon and not backed up by anything.
Finn and Rose knows that they will strat tracking them with another ship once they find out after the system cycle. Which means that other ships must have it for them to know that there is a system cycle.
You have no proof that few ships have it.
I mean, basic trajectory calculation has been a thing in Legends, certainly. Of course, that's why they mention using random-walk short jumps during stealth missions, to lose any tail that wasn't keeping pace with you. Start in a different direction than the one you actually want to go, drop out and course-correct, do so several times, then finally head to your target. Nobody could still be tailing you, and if they're waiting to see you arrive, then back-calculating your origin would just lead to an empty patch of space. The hyperspace tracking of the First Order is different because it takes behavior into account, and makes a heuristic guess where the *people* would try to go, not just what the physics says must have happened.
.
.
Also: We know that hiding this sort of maneuver is both difficult and extremely useful if you can pull it off. Hence, why the protagonists who stole the Hound's Tooth in Tales of the Bounty Hunters were so impressed to learn that the ship could change its course without dropping to realspace (by using multiple hyperdrive systems at once to cancel and redirect the ship's direction of travel).
Are all hyperspace routes straight? The main shipping lanes CURVE often.
Light speed tracking.
Light speed ramming.
Roundhead Johnson has no clue how the technology of Star Wars works, so he treats it all like a bunch of macguffins.
The technology and science in Star Wars is inconsistent and only there to advance the story and make for cool scenes.
@@inkoalawetrust There's inconsistent and then there's outright ignorant. Roundhead Johnson is the latter.
Hyperspace tracking existed as far back as A New Hope. Han Solo told Luke and friends that the Star Destroyers were not following them while they were still in hyperspace, which strongly suggests that ships in hyperspace can detect each other. The problem with hyperspace tracking is if the tracked target is faster than the other ship, which is why you need to place tracking beacons on the target to track it further than the sensor's range.
Hey Eck, loved the Battle of the Dreadnoughts animation you made! I don't mind it being a demonstration and not a premiere but I would love to see more high-quality productions such as that. Well done man!
I just assumed they had a spy aboard and was giving the first order the location. Similar to Leia's tracker.
"Hyperspace tracking was a key plot hole of The Last Jedi"
There, I fixed your opening line for you ^_^
Hyperspace tracking is stupid, in fact a lot of things they added have problems of why didn't they do that in the past or (like the hyperspace tracking) now we will expect them to do this from now on.
@@EchthelionII hyperspace tracking wasn't "added" in TLJ. None of the things you people complain were "added" were showing up for the first time in TLJ. Hyperspace tracking was even name-dropped in Rogue One.
@@techguypaul I did not know that, thank you for correcting me. I saw episode 7 and 8 twice, Solo once, and Rogue One once or twice, and read the novelization of Rogue One and Force Awakens once. What else wasn't added in episode 8? But it still doesn't change my mind that it's dumb.
@@EchthelionII this whole thing about it not "making sense" is a shaky argument at best. There's a LOT about the SW universe that doesn't make practical sense. Heck, even the way the ships fly doesn't make actual sense.
Leia's "Mary Poppins" moment wasn't anything new either. All the Jedi stuff has been done before in novels.
@@techguypaul "Leia's "Mary Poppins" moment wasn't anything new either. All the Jedi stuff has been done before in novels."
what novels? And it cant be from one where she had any training at all.
"this whole thing about it not "making sense" is a shaky argument at best."
It is more than shaky: it doesn't make sense. The movie implied hyperspace tracking was actually tracking them, like they could not escape from it, so much so that numerous of the resistance committed treason just to hold out for some half-baked rescue mission to turn it (the "tracker") off. In the book, we find its not even close to tracking, its just best-educated-guessing via brute force computation and could be broken by having some random person, who isnt Leia, pick a random jump and then doing a double jump off of that, which is how its always worked in SW, so nothing new.
"Heck, even the way the ships fly doesn't make actual sense."
How the ships fly isnt a central plot point and part of a ridiculous contrived crisis ("omg guys, our hypermatter reactor powered capital ship is running on fumes, OMG"), whereas hyperspace "tracking" *IS* a central plot point, so it does need to make sense.
Hyperspace lanes are comparable to our own highways: they're both networks of pre-established transportation routes that allow vehicles to travel from one location to another at a very high speed. In addition, both hyperlanes and highways have many entrance and exit points, enabling access to regional routes within towns (or star systems)...
I love you in- and outro song :) and vids ofcourse ;p
Ooo. A video seemingly critical of The Last Jedi. That'll get the views.
#BattleOfTheDreadnoughts would have been a great UA-cam Premier! I have no preference one way or another as to how you present it in such a way though.
Again, that was a *fantastic* short and I can't wait to see what else you come up with
Another crucial detail: Leia was *wearing* a homing beacon! They made a point to specifically show it and explain that it was so that Rey would be able to find her way back to the Resistance after she found Luke.
I think there's a most efficient path requiring a certain velocity for entry to hyperspace, and the astromech aims for that path by default, so the distance you travel along any path can be calculated from the velocity assuming the most efficient course, and then you just need to find which path by tracking it.
Do a starship versus of the T-65C-A2 versus the TIE advanced x1
Here’s a better question: Does the entire plot of the Last Jedi make sense?
Captain Cutter short answer, no!
Long answer!
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!
Captain Cutter I was about to say that
Here is an answer
ua-cam.com/video/3JcwGKzoaC8/v-deo.html
No
Nope. if you don’t think about it then yes
Great Video Eck, as always... Although you sounded a bit off in the intro part of the video, I hope you're ok.
if "Battle of the Dreadnoughts" was a premier, I am more hyped up for additional videos.
Are you unable to jump immediately after exiting Hyperspace? Wouldn't that throw off the computer's calculations?
It seems like there is a cool down period between jumps. That differs per hyperdrive and that there are limits to how often a hyperdrive can be used.
We do know that the hyperdrive has to have navigational calculations complete and the hyperdrive ‘spun-up’ for calculated jump. I am assuming though that you can still jump with just a ‘spun-up’ hyperdrive and a heading.
@@bioboy1819 thanks for the info. Couldn't the navigators input the final destination and have the computer do the calculations for the entire trip instead of having to manually set up every time they exited Hyperspace?
Yeup, that happens in the Legends book ‘Dark Force Rising’ Leia and Chewbacca plot a multi-jump from Coruscant to the Forest moon of Endor. Which allows them to only have to wait on the Hyperdrive recharging.
And it also seems from the X-Wing Legends Series by Michael A. Stackpole that an X-Wing’s hyperdrive charge is used up as an integral (sum of all parts) of Distance and ‘Number-of-Jumps’ (Specifically the entering and exiting of Hyperspace).
AussiePlays yeah, in Legends the rebels made multiple small jumps, often in various destinations, in order to not make it possible to be tracked back to their bases.
What if the speed of hyperdrives is determined by the cool down of hyperspace jumps and not speed of moving through hyperspace itself.
TLJ: consistently lowering the bar.
It's so low the ants are having a hard time doing the limbo under it.
Instead of reacting the same way as the ones who liked TLJ, I'll just wait one more decade, then I'll see people loving the sequels, just like with the prequels.
oh yea hyperspace tracking not making sense totally ruined the series revolving around space wizards with telekinesis
Excellent video/review!!👍☯️👍
Heard somewhere that the supercomputer has a constant hyperspace presence. Allowing it to "see" where a ship is going. This is also why the Hyperspace ramming was so devastating.
oh, this sounds like nice explanation
Loved the film you should colab with ec Henry and star wars theory for the next vader film you could use the eclipse
Isn't star wars theory the one who lied about Disney copyrighting his fan film when it was Warner Chappell/Universal and when Disney/Lucasfilm saved his film he only thanked Lucasfilm despite Disney not owning Warner Chappell but owning Lucasfilm
You N'wah gay sex
bedrock123uk >Star Wars Theory
Yeah nah
@@jacklangford2121 hot
You N'wah Lied, what are you talking about? He just didn’t have enough information when he made the first video, and Warner Chappell is a branch of Disney, which you would know if you had watched the full video. He also thanked Lucasfilm because that’s who helped, in fact they actually directly reached out to him, thus his claim that they helped him, not necessarily Disney.
Personally, I like how Babylon 5 handles hyperspace.
Could two ships travelling along the same lane but in opposing directions collide with each other? Or even see each other as they flew by?
Love your explication/theorization but i hate that hs tracking without a physical beacon is possible
Elon Musk, Vsauce, and the entire meme force knows
I love and think the idea of Hyperspace tracking is genius, but It would have been more realistic if it was a ship type instead of a small machine. Something like a Interdictor some kind of specialized ship would be better
yeah, dedicated tracking ships could make for some really interesting tactics like how interdictors are used. But the Supremecy was so massive it probably had all the tech the FO had. I dont think the ship had interdictor tech, but with all the other stuff already on it, it should have been
@@johannsiewers6301 Yeah I never thought about the size of it Thx
As I understand it, Nav-Computers and astromech droids, required up to date info on the location of all obstacle between departure and destination, this info has to be updated regularly as things like stars and asteroids move! If you don't get the right data from the Navi-Computer you might bounce to close to a supernova or fly through a star and that would end you trip real quick! This data was compiled by planets along various sections of set routes (mapping every rock in the galaxy would be impossible), this allowed long jumps in relative safety along defined paths, and made the planets well off. Example, Naboo was responsible for a section of Trade route that led to the outer rim, and the Corporate Sector Authority, But constantly mapping even a small designated section takes money, so the senate imposed taxation, paid by, for example, Trade Federations. Being a member of a trade federation allowed you access to update navigation data cheaply, that allowed fast travel from one location to the next and greater profits. Until there was a rise in the taxation by the Senate, but you know how that ended. The point is flying through hyper-space isn't like dusting crops and real space mass has a shadow in Hyper-Space and that disrupts your hyperdrive meaning a long stint in real space to get back to a point you can hyper-jump from.
I walked out of VIII thinking a spy among the Resistance fleet somewhere would have been a better way to achieve the same result. It might have also given the Poe/Holdo story an edge that it was also missing.
Forerunner Warrior Servants vs Adeptus Astartes
Starship Versus: Harrower class Dreadnaught vs Victory class Star Destroyer
I would say that it's also possible that, when they talk about trajectory, they could be talking about initial velocity as well as literal direction they're travelling in. It's not entirely certain whether or not hyperfuel is used continuously, or if it's a one-time burst to get you into hyperspace. Aaaand I just got to the part of the video where you've mentioned that, haha.
So, my second theory is that actually, considering we know that there is a gravitic element to the interaction of ships and hyperspace, there's every chance that it's possible to develop technology that can detect where ships have dropped out of it or entered it, which is similar to the wave or aftereffect you mentioned (I just got to that bit too), but is a much more noticeable speedbump instead where they actually transition from one type of space to the other, as opposed to just being able to see that a ship has travelled in that direction.
Then, using that, the computer can check it off as they travel and compare that signature to the ships they know they're looking for, so the final calculation doesn't actually technically finish until they arrive at their destination. It's more like looking for a square hole to fit a square peg into than just guessing where a dart might hit a board, for another comparison.
I love you. Your channel is my favorite EVER.
Also need to factor in that they where also low on fuel.. another reason why they would not have been able to make a full jump
And how would the first order know that? The novel too implies that they didn't know that, given how Snoke thought they could be anywhere and that the reply doesn't mention fuel.
The first order has no reasonable way to know the amount of resources their opponents had and how many of those they were able to take with them whilst hastily fleeing.
@@Vaalin I dont think it would be to much of a stretch of the imagination to say the first order did simply scan the ship. If the empire can scan for organics and spice and other substances aboard a ship in the originals, I dont think its to much to be able to say that the first order can do that plus a simple fuel scan even more so considering how advanced the megastar destroyer was. Even more so how quickly it was all happening, the information may not have reached Snoke prior to the jump and the decision did not to be made by him exclusively. There are other officers on the ship at that time. They may have not told snoke and choose to follow immidatly given the gravity of the situation and perhaps inform him afterwards.
@@pershingchaffee, if fuel scanning and calculations on that basis were involved, the dialogue would have mentioned that and not talked of brute forcing.
But that's not even the point. Even assuming there is a way to scan presence of fuel from a distance (which begs the question of which properties of fuel allow that and of possible counter measures adoptable by a military vehicle to avoid this form of tracking), any measure has inherently error margins. You can't measure anything exactly, your instruments and techniques always have limits of precision, even in classical mechanics. Even without taking into account that different vehicles will have different fuel values measured with different error margins, assuming they would calculate on the basis of the lowest fuel values assuming the resistance fleet won't split (which is a big ass assumption), since there is faster than light travel involved even very tiny errors in fuel measurement could result in very very big estimated areas of arrival (which is also true for determination of arrival given the starting trajectory). Areas so big that finding a ship inside them would be impossible.
Of course Star Wars isn't hard science fiction and technology is hand waved at most, but the scale of distances in space is seriously underestimated in most science fiction.
I'm curious about turning in hyperspace,
I don't see why it couldn't happen, probably not sharp turns but gradual turns sure why not.
@ ecks - Hyperspace is gone into some detail in the X-Wing series by Michael A. Stackpole. The first book specifically calls out how observed arrival speed (when interdicted) and acceleration on entering hyperspace determine range and calculate the curves used in transit and walks through the techniques that can be used to analyse potential end points.
I always assumed that, by "through hyperspace" meant that they were able to track them while in hyperspace and thus their exit point. IDK.
#AskEck Delta Squad (Republic Commando) vs The Cyberdemon (Doom 2016) 5th try.
commandos would get smoked
Don't use the premier feature I won't be as hyped
Now, I’m pretty sure what you said at the end simply takes what I’m about to say out if the running. But from what I’m able to tell from the excerpts like “Brute forcing it” and “sensor logs” that they’re comparing it to other jumps, like it has a signature. Like the ship using a certain amount of power for a certain jump or other minuscule factors. Now I don’t know much about hyperspace so I’m probably VERY wrong but it’s just the thought that popped into my head, that they’re using the computer to compare it to thousands of other jumps to then extrapolate they’re destination
Still surprised that we are all doing mental gymnastics to make sense of that movie - seriously though I would not be surprised if that is the last time it is featured on screen because of just how complicated it is to fit it in and justify with so many variables
Best energy rifle: E-11 Blaster Rifle Star Wars; Type-3 Phaser Rifle Star Trek; Lazgun Dune; Type-25 Energy Rifle Halo
So it makes no sense because hyperspace is vague as fuuuck.
Cool.
I read one place where they said that the tracker's energy field put at least one of the sensors into a hyperspace field so it could sense what happened in hyperspace. Since a solid object using energy propulsion entering and exiting hyperspace is certain to create some sort of shock wave through hyperspace; being able to measure the strength of both the entrance and exit shock wave and knowing the direction they were traveling when they entered hyperspace would give them both direction and distance traveled.
Actually using predictive analytics makes me smile. it's something that we are just using now and it's very plausible to predict behavior from analyzing previous behavior. I worked in the field for a while and it's really fascinating and fun
#AskEck
*Attempt 454*
Do the Forerunners from the books vs The Warhammer 40k galaxy.
War In Heaven galaxy for round two.
Warhammer wins, how could the almighty Imperium of Man lose to xenos who themselves lost to popcorn?
@@robertnelson9599
You mean popcorn that's very smart and can cover you're entire body in a dozen seconds.
@@thorshammer7883 popcorn that can get very smart.
Forerunners stomp
Vs matchup
Brute or Brute chieftain from Halo vs A Predator from the Predator franchise. With 2 rounds First round unarmed and unarmored. Second round fully armed and armored
Maybe It's me misunderstanding, but I always thought hyperspace was possible outside lanes, however it was extremely dangerous, and so safe routes became the lanes. I can't remember if it was Bane or Palageis went to the deep core, and there was some line talking about how because of all the large gravity sources like black holes and such, hyperspace could crush a ship to subatomic sizes instantly, and that's why it required many adjustments.
edit: Beyond just the effect of a gravity well making the hyper space impossible.
I think the vector and speed thing makes sense for predicting a possible destination. I seem to remember a scene in X-Wing: The Bacta War where the Rogues set up their space station with a gravity well projector, so that they can fool Isard. They talk about jumping into hyperspace with a direction and speed that would suggest a different planet than Yag'Dhul as their destination, and the gravity well generator would pull them out at their real destination, Yag'Dhul. Because they specifically mention that speed and direction might lead Isard to find their base, it seems that this kind of hyperspace destination predicting has a confirmed background.
Didn't obi wan track Jango through hyperspace as Jango would have needed to go to lightspeed to get to geonosis?
But Obi Wan puts a tracker device on Jangos Slave I :) Watch it bro one more time :) Slave I try to fly away ,and Obi Wan throws a tracker on its hull :) Have a nice movie night bro :)
@@julianjanczyk9041 so trackers are different to hyperspace tracking?
Think so. Tracker is a device. Hyperspace thacking is calculating where that ship go. When you use a tracker ,you know where that ship is. When you calculating hyperspace tracking you are not sure if your calculatings are good. You can only imagine :)
@@julianjanczyk9041 awesome 👍
Better question, is there anything about Last Jedi makes any sense at all?
There is a line in the movie that people seem to ignore, “we have a thread to follow”. This implies that they were able to track them due to something specific. Later on we learn that Rey can find that fleet with a locator beacon if the fleet is in real space not hyper. Those two bits of information implied to me that the First Order was using the holonet to track ships in hyper, including when and where a tracked ship would arrive. Given the statement that they were using brute force computing to derive a vector, and based on the knowledge that their location would become instantly available as soon as they dropped out of hyper, hyperspace tracking makes sense.
Something else to consider: the First Order is somewhat cognizant of the resistance fleet’s limited resources. They are aware of roughly how long the fleet’s fuel will last, if I remember correctly, or at the very least that they can’t jump again. So this puts a hard cap on their range. Add in behavioral analysis and prediction like “will want to avoid landmarks”, “has rebel data” and “will want to conserve fuel/resources on arrival”, and you can make behavioral predictions. Then triangulate the exit vector (because I’m pretty sure this system is a network between multiple ships. The Supremacy wasn’t at the Battle of Dakar, right? So it had to be ships there despite the main computer being on the Supremacy, and I’d imagine having more ships provides better info) and you have a pretty reliable system.
Never clicked on a video soo fast
WHY NO SECOND JUMP???!! ALWAYS A SECOND JUMP!!
That battle of the dreadnaughts still has me super hyped.
i think i read/saw somewhere that when a ship exits hyperspace it emits a particular form of particle that travels faster than light and thus can be detected instantly, which the computer on the supremacy would use to immediately drop from hyperspace basically right on top of the resistance fleet.
#AskEck Vs. Match-Up Imperial I-class Star Destroyer vs. CCS Class/ Kandosii-type vs. Venator-class (All Legends)
#AskEck
*Attempt 456*
Do the Forerunners from the books vs the Warhammer 40k galaxy. Including a War in Heaven scenario.
In SWTOR there was a Harrowerclass Dreadnaught named „Gauntlet“ which was able to Scan Hyperspacelanes and fire into Hyperspace.
I'd like to see some less known ship vs ship comparisons. Maybe not necessarily a separate video for each, and not necessarily these (I'm using as for example).
1. Deep Impact crew/ship vs Armageddon crew/ship.
2. Castle of Lions (Voltron) Vs (another less looked at ship)
3.U.S.S. Pewdepie vs HMS Tseries
4. Medical frigate vs medical frigate
5. Enders game fleets compared to Halo fleets.
Etc.
Because TLJs scientific inaccuracies are so terrible, I've officially cut it out of canon. And because of the terrible plot.
What do I think of The Last Jedi's Hyperspace Tracking? Two words: Plot Convenience.
Hyperspace in general is a plot convenience, as it's never greatly explained in the Lucas films. He did seems to have a few rules for it, but it was never developed beyond getting the characters to or from one destination and another. This is what I think is Disney's mistake with the new Star Wars- they're focusing of HOW their characters do things (something that should never be developed too much in science fantasy) instead of developing WHY their characters are doing things. Which is also probably why all the old characters feel more fleshed out than their new characters...
...And that's my rant :D
Very nice video
First Order’s supercomputer is so advanced it can make the Kessel Run in less than twelve parsecs.
the less we talk about TLJ the better
It's does not make any form of sense.
I can let Stat Trek get away with it, because it's the future and they at least explained what it's does.
That's some stupid ass sounding logic.
It's a ionic trail that is detected by the sensors. The onboard computer determines the trajectory based and then calculates the likely distances combined with an assessment of the ships fuel remaining along with other data mentioned in the video to determine where a ship possibly went.
I remember seeing a screen in the background of the Endor bunker when the rebels burst in (Return of the Jedi). Right as Leia is saying "Hurry, the fleet will be here any moment!" There is a image on the screen of the incoming fleet. It implies that it was possible to track them, somehow. I always wondered about that.
Short answer: no
No, it doesn't make sense. Nothing in TLJ does. Star Wars is dead. The only thing that can save it is removing Awakens and TLJ from canon. They should let several of the authors that have written successful series of Star Wars books to write a new complete trilogy before any new movie is filmed.
Fuckoff.
@@DrewLSsix
And they say that Disney canon haters are toxic...
Looks like the angry fanboy of bad movies doesn't like criticism of bad movies. I don't care if you get angry. It is an objective fact that it is bad storytelling to not have an outline for the overall plot and characters when the story is being told over multiple installments. Also JJ and Rian are not strong writers. Real authors should have been brought in and then you hire directors to tell the story that has been written. The fact that Rian was given a free hand for TLJ is insane and it didn't help that JJ is terrible at creating a plot, which is why Awakens ended up being a blatant New Hope remake.
@@stevenstehling The fact that you use "objective fact" to describe your opinion and fail to distinguish a difference between authors and screenwriters really doesn't help your case.
@@jamesallen17592Do you think you made some stunning point about screenwriters, because you're just being foolish. What exactly am I wrong about? In the case or Star Wars movies, whoever writes the script is the author of the story. JJ and Rian didn't adapt scripts from books. They authored the stories. The first iteration of the story happens to be a screenplay. I really don't care if you want to call them screenwriters or authors, it is irrelevant. The title used by the writer doesn't change the end result, which is the creation of a story.
You are also dishonestly summarizing what I am referring to as objective fact. My opinions are not objective fact. Perhaps you need to read my words again.
"It is an objective fact that it is bad storytelling to not have an outline for the overall plot and characters when the story is being told over multiple installments."
So refute my point. Demonstrate that choosing to have no plan for the plot and characters in a multi-installment story has no significant negative effects.
It was literally a "deus ex machina" plot mechanic... a specifically constructed supercomputer, the god-from-the-machine, made it happen.
If I remember correctly. In return of the Jedi. One of the displays was showing the approaching rebel fleet, while they were in hyper space. In Empire strikes back they had to plot all possible trajectories. This implies it's possible to see hyper headed at you but not away. It's not impossible to believe the first order couldn't find a way to do it. The problem is the plot point of multiple ships being able to track the retreating resistance but only turning on their systems if the flagship dropped theirs. They clearly understand redundancy, and if it's resource intensive, just look at the size of the pursuit fleet. Hyper fuel alone would make running multiple systems worth it.
Nothing from the last Jedi made sense, and it never will!
Nothing about The Last Jedi makes any sense.
If you dont have a positive IQ of course
I thought that the tracking should work by using a sensor that exists in hyperspace and real space simultaneously. That would also retcon an explanation for Holdo's hyperspace ramming shenanigans if at least part of the Supremacy existed in hyperspace and could therefore be hit by a ship entering hyperspace.
I like this explanation and am immediately adopting it as headcanon-
If I remember right Liea didn't disclose that there was a base on crait and probably never entered it on a computer. So when the Rebellion became the NR and classified bases became unclassified she tucked that one away for safety. Then in TLJ she jumped to the seemingly random place from the old records intending to go somewhere else but then the First Order showed up and she had to go with the contingency plan