The Final Lesson
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- Опубліковано 20 гру 2017
- This is it. This is the end. Everything was a build up to this moment. Kreia, now after reclaiming her position of Darth Traya, keeps her promise to answer all of the exile's questions once her training was complete. Now the apprentice must kill the master, there is no other choice.
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#StarWars #KOTOR2 #Expandeduniverse - Ігри
"By killing me here, you have rewarded me more than you could possibly know."
Papito Qinn such a weird mix of sadness and achievement didint know how to feel after her death
With her death she was freed and I think she also set the exile free with her death as well. I guess she got what she wanted in the end.
AdeptKing but the force is still around
historical presence true but everything else she managed to get. She got revenge on the Jedi and Sith. She was able to set the exile free from their past too, which is something she wanted to do interestingly enough I think she wanted to help the exile above all else. I don't know if she actually wanted to cut the force off from the galaxy though or if she was just saying that.
AdeptKing i heard she wanted to use her to reach revan
"The force has a will and that is abhorrent to me, it seems to have a will to control the balance when countless lives are lost" *She has a point.*
@raptus I still remember that picture with Kathleen Kennedy and her friends standing in tshirts with "The Force is Female".. I can't help laughing when comparing it to Kreia's teachings
@@martinp3166 that picture is such cringe i swear
@@maleexile9053 It's more so hilarious that they will never understand the concept behind the force. The Force is (if we follow Kreia's perception) the most manipulative entity in Star Wars. Having Kathleen claim the force is "female" is actually kinda ironically sexist against women and they just don't know it xD
@@martinp3166 The forces true name is...Karen. But for real this just proves that they didn't read/play any of the EU media, otherwise they'd of caught this accidental sexism.
I think it is ironic that she hates the force for having a will of its own, and yet she would force her own will on the force to have a measure of freedom that does not actually exist. Without the force, the only rule would be power. Without something to tip the scales, the only one who benefits would be the one on top. Ultimately it would leave a power vacuum, and the ones who would suffer would be the ones at the bottom. There would be no real equality, only the constant need for power and validation. Because in a world where power is the only thing that matters, no one would settle for less. Everyone would become a slave to it. They would need it to do anything of value. And if all of that power exists in the hands of one person, it would lead to ruin. Because as mortal beings, we are doomed to die, and that vacuum will always be contested and the toll will be high, yet only the ones at the bottom would pay.
Through out the story Kreia tries to convince us as the players that her way is the only way. But ironically by doing that she acts exactly as she claims the force does. She tries to force her own will on reality and only sees her way as the right one.
But that is what makes her such a great antagonist!
Because she comes to this conclusion naturally! She has been wronged time and time again and this constant betrayal, this constant test of humility is always being imposed on her. She is trying to do what is right, but in trying so hard to do that, she ultimately ends up becoming one of the biggest catalysts for everything that goes wrong. Not even by her own intentions but because of the force and how it punishes without any sort of remorse or mercy. So of course she would be appalled! She has experienced this humiliation so many times in the past that she has grown wiser! She has been brought low and yet she found strength in her humility! And when she sees that there is a chance for her redemption she doesn't hesitate to take it. Because Kreia is just trying to do what she believes is right. As much as her pride prevents her from seeing her own mistakes, it allows her to rise up and try to make a positive change.
Whether it truly is or isn't, that is actually hard to say. I may not agree with it, but maybe by eliminating the force, she would give the galaxy something they desperately needed. Or maybe she would just doom everyone to an endless cycle of perpetual violence. Always the ambitious are born in times of peace. Always they reach higher then they should.
But the fact we can argue and debate about this is why Kreia deserves a place as a great antagonist. She is memorable for all the right reasons and despite her mistakes, she is someone we can relate to. Someone who is just trying to do the right thing, and who has become so weary from all the put downs that she is ready to sacrifice everything to do it.
Sorry for the long rant. I feel that a lot of the time people are ready to agree with Kreia, and don't consider the consequence. I don't mean this as an attack, I am trying to present my case and hope that you can present yours in turn. (:D
Thank you!
"There is no great secret, no great revelation - only you."
No great secret? No great revelation? To me, perhaps because of my ignorance or blind belief to a singlet cause, the greatest of revelations came to me.
"It is said that the Force has a will, it has a destiny for us all. I wield it, but it uses us all, and that is abhorrent to me. Because I hate the Force. I hate that it seems to have a will. That it would control us to achieve some measure of balance, when countless lives are lost."
To me, this made me see things that will no doubt make me wonder and trouble me to the end of my days. Perspective. Perhaps the most frightening thing ever imagined.
Remember, a sequel is only as good as it isn't the same with the prequel.
"Your heart's desire is to be told some mystery. The mystery is that there is no mystery" -A "Blood Meridian" reference, in my Star Wars? More likely than you think.
@@zero3045 This guy goes into detail on Kreia's remark: ua-cam.com/video/-a7x5N2eVFE/v-deo.html&ab_channel=%D6%B4 He also has a separate one on her philosophy
A quote that's meant to be non mind blowing, ends up being mind blowing.
Revenge wasn't enough for Kreia. Above all else, she had to prove both to the Sith and the Jedi that she was right all along. The Exile is proof of Kreia's convictions. The Exile was more than any Jedi, and more than any Sith, because she alone had learned to live without the Force. And with her revenge complete, Kreia has just one last duty to preform, the teacher's burden. We are what they grow beyond. Kreia is the last and final obstacle for the Exile to overcome. Kreia does not ask for mercy or salvation, though she is glad that the Exile tried. Truthfully, In Kreia's mind, the Exile has already saved her.
and at the end of it all she dies satisfied and vindicated because she was right. such a wonderfully written character
There is more: In my book, Kreia wanted Surik to kill her as proof that Surik is not a failure. During the final judgment, Surik managed to defeat the masters without striking a blow, but defeat without striking blows is not enough. He had to make them see through his eyes, but Vrook Lamar (unsuccessfully) cut Surik off from the Force, and then put him in stasis right before Surik was about to start his sentence. Kreia then stepped in and cast them down, but Surik knew that Kreia was gone, most likely because he read her thoughts, stating that Surik had failed her, completely, and utterly. If Surik wanted to prove her wrong, then he had to face Kreia’s past, as well as his own, but killing Nihilus, Atris, and Sion was not enough. Ergo, Surik had to kill Kreia. If he did not kill her, then she would kill him, and if she did not kill him, then Kreia would look very bad, like a total failure. Then, after the final battle between Milo Surik and Master Kreia, Hanharr went to Surik, sensing Kreia’s death. He thought to himself “I Must Sacrifice Myself To Save Maneless Super Sonic Jeedai Before It’s Too Late!” and approached Surik, ready to die as Bao Dur’s remote activated the Mass Shadow Generator. So, it’s like this:
vs. HK-50
vs. Lord Sion (as Master Kreia)
vs. False Batu Rem
vs. Loppak Slusk & Luxa
vs. Escaped Criminals
vs. HK-50 (3x)
vs. Saquesh
vs. Cahhmakt
vs. Visas Marr
vs. Twin Suns (as Atton)
vs. Jekk’Jekk Tarr’s clientele
vs. Mira (as Hanharr)
vs. Azanti Zhug (as Atton, Bao-Dur, and Master Kreia)
vs. Visquis
vs. Master Zez-Kai Ell (as Hanharr and Master Kreia)
vs. HK-50 (3x, as T3-M4)
vs. Goto’s Droid Army (as Atton, Master Kreia, Hanharr, HK-47, Milo Surik (later battle), Ratrin Vhek, and Bao Dur)
vs. Colonel Tobin (Space battle)
vs. Ponlar
vs. Vaklu troops
vs. Kinrath Matriarch & Albino Kath Hound
vs. Esok (as Canderous “Mandalore The Preserver” Ordo)
vs. Gerevick
vs. Mercenary Leader
vs. Azkul (as Master Vrook, Master Kreia, Hanharr, Milo Surik (later battle), Atton, Ratrin Vhek, and Khoonda)
vs. Unidentified Sith Master (as Visas Marr, Hanharr, Mical, and Xarga)
vs. Colonel Tobin (as Milo Surik, Master Kreia, and Canderous “Mandalore The Preserver” Ordo)
vs. Vaklu (as Milo Surik, Master Kreia, Canderous “Mandalore The Preserver” Ordo, and Master Kavar)
vs. Lord Sion
vs. Lord Revan (vision)
vs. Ezer Arden
vs. Lord Loqi (as Hanharr, Canderous “Mandalore The Preserver” Ordo, Atton, Master Bindo, Jett Darklighter, and Milo Surik)
vs. Lord Poxus (as Hanharr, Canderous “Mandalore The Preserver” Ordo, Atton, Master Bindo, Jett Darklighter, Milo Surik, and Lord Sion)
vs. Lord Sion & Possessed Goto Droids (as G0-T0/Goto, T3-M4, HK-47, and most of Surik’s companions)
vs. GS-928 (another droid created by Lord Revan) & Giant Egg Dragoon-like Tank Droid (as Milo Surik, Master Vash, and Master Kreia)
vs. Master Vrook, Master Kavar, & Master Zez Kai Ell (as Milo Surik, Master Vash (early-mid battle), and Master Kreia (late battle))
vs. Lord Nihilus (as Lord Sion, who is now burnt and rotten after being frozen in carbonite by Goto and set on fire by a Sith Assassin)
vs. Master Atris & Handmaidens (as Brianna, and Milo Surik)
vs. HK-50 (as HK-51 and HK-47)
vs. Lord Nihilus (as Visas Marr, Milo Surik, and Canderous “Mandalore The Preserver” Ordo”)
vs. Master Kreia (as Atton, Visas Marr, Brianna, and Hanharr)
vs. Lord Sion - Phase 1 (as Atton)
vs. Lord Sion - Phase 2
vs. Master Kreia (FINAL BOSS)
I love your reference to the Last Jedi. "We are what they grow beyond, that is the true burden of all masters". Just so, as you said Kreia had to know for sure if the Exile could be everything she hoped. And the only way she knew how was to in essence, be the Exile's final test.
I really dont understand how it is mentioned that the Exile could live without the force, yet uses the force to attack opponents during the gameplay! This is contradicting!
@Vald3m It is set up that you had no force powers because you were cut off from them, but gained them back because it was not enough.
Kreia made me see the force from a different perspective. THANK YOU FOR THIS GAME OBSIDIAN!!
Me too, man. Me too -> tay.kinja.com/knights-of-the-old-republic-2-changed-my-views-on-the-f-1794910954
Very well written.
Thank you very much. :)
@@UrbanLetsPlay I was going to write the exact same comment, but you beat me to it.
@@UrbanLetsPlay check out the gnostic creation story
The way she says "because I HATE the Force" was incredible. The words just dripped with contempt. The whole plot laid bare. Kreia sought the Death Of The Force itself. And she very nearly succeeded.
Its very utopically childish thought...its like a human trying to kill the god that created us...maybe she had point maybe she could wish the force never exists. But still trying to seek death of force is foolish cause force never allow the birth of its executioner. In the end she would be destroyed in the end
@@Thebrainwashedturtle Bullshit. The Force does not create life, it merely influences it. The Exile was proof that life could exist without it. It is as much a lie as the Christian God.
@@XJ0461C Alright, don’t bring actual religion into this you little douche
@@wynnraremusic Shut the fuck up. I’ll use whatever analogy I want, including one that’s resulted in more death and abuse than you can possibly imagine.
@@XJ0461C Untrue
Last night I fell asleep watching the Kreia playlist from Papito Qinn. This morning I turned my computer back on and found myself at this video, number 48. Pretty sure I fell asleep around number 11. Which means I just listened to an obscene amount of Kreia talking to me, in my sleep. Dear god help me
Hmm... Hmm... Do you fear that you've possibly been programmed now in some way?
Subliminal messages
::|Awaken|::
Wes Takahashi “I’m motivated! Foolishness Nihlus, foolishness.” -Vergil, the Exile
It’s okay, Kreias words are wiser than so many people today.
The story of a veteran being able to cope with his PTSD and leave the events and regrets of his past behind hits notes that are universal.
Always wondered why this story shredded every fiber of my being and built me back up again so hardcore 😟long story short got ptsd from parents fighting all 18 years of my childhood...
I only discovered years later why I love this game so much. I love the prospect of a character that did/does terrible things for a good cause. That did what they thought was necessary and were broken by it somewhat. To be able to play such a character was even better.
I'm glad someone picked up on that theme. I always believed Dxun was meant to resemble Vietnam as well.
@@MarkiiFlow either that or dxun was iwo jima or Okinawa and malacor was Hiroshima and nakasaki
@@daviddavidson9923 perhaps
I have to admit i was completely baffled by the story of this game when I played it at 10 years old. Only now am I realizing it's brilliance.
I was so braindead back then. I played a jedi with a double sided saber and only used armor. . . lol. Wasn't until later I realized how op 2 sabers and force speed was
@@Visitormassacre exactly
I honestly thought the game lacked story when compared to the first game, but when I came back in my twenties, I was actually surprised by the sheer depth of the game. It made me actually believe Kreia was right in everything she said and made me want her to succeed in destroying the reliance on the force that both Jedi and Sith had.
Dude I got the game for my birthday, could figure out how to equip the plasma torch.. said K, set it down for 8 months
That's funny cause as a 10 year old I totally understood it
''It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built'' Amazing quote, especially one concerning love
@Commander Graham ?
I have definitely taken that quote to heart and that’s why I always speak my mind and feelings and have since ms lived without regret or any thoughts of what could have happened.
2:30 "no plottwist here"
@@Visitormassacre the plot twist is literally that kreia was a sith the whole time/was using you
@@Visitormassacre Eh, I know that. but either way, if you didn't gain influence with her, or barely talked to her on the ship or during gameplay - then this would still be the plot twist.
@@Sadeness99 Well technically she's the best sith teacher there is, because she give her life to teach all she could to her only student.
"You will not show me mercy, I will see you break before you do." That's a raw ass line.
I'm simple woman, I see Kreia I click like.
Trully, Kreia is the role model for a great female character.
Isso mana
not a revanite here but a Kreaist haha
The Revanite And The Kreiaist!
Who are you pretty lady
I know Kreia was just using the exile to get her revenge(in part) and prove her theories true. Yet I remember that Kreia said at one point she wanted the exile to be “saved”. Feels like Kreia was trying to give her student closure while fulfilling her own goals too. The theme of this game seems to be about dealing with trauma, all the cast have that issue in this game.
Yes, they all have a wound of some sort that connects somehow to the events of Malachor and that's made them who they are today. "It is the heartbeat of the past."
Kreia will always be my favorite Star Wars character, so well written
1:43 "But hey maybe I'm just a crazy self-serving old crone, lmao."
Love everything she says has an almost Shakespearean undertone.
Zoe Kin Did you take a blaster bolt when I wasn't looking.
Kind of true though..she let her hatred of the force consume her such that her entire life revolved around the thing she hated most. She tries to be deep but in the end she was driven by hatred just as all other sith.
When I was younger I never truly understood what her goal was. I was simply to young. And even now as an adult I have a hard time understanding her.
But I think i came to a similar conclusion as she. The Force is unnessesary. The Jedi and Sith are unnessesary. The Sith are blinded by their own ignorance, and the Jedi are to blinded by their arrogance.
She simply wants free will! She wants a galaxy without the Force because it secretly controls the fate of everyone in the galaxy...
Well it's pretty awful living in the SW universe if you think about it, everything goes in an endless cycle of war.
"Darkness rises and light to meet it"
The best way to see it is replacing replacing the force with whatever company owns SW rights, make it so there never will be peace
That's why it's called starwars
Kreias philosophy is initially captivating, but it somewhat falls apart when you realize how much importance she places on lives above the force. In the end she cares more about the preservation of, as yoda puts it, crude matter, like all sith at the end of the day. Life is eternal through the force seeing as we become one with it when we die, and while she was correct in the sentiment that people like the jedi are hypocritical for espousing a central theme of detachment from the material while essentially coveting their connection to the force above all else, in the end there is only the force and you will always return to it, connection or not. Its not some malignant entity with an agenda, but life itself, possibly even the origin of it like chaos was in greek mythology.
I. Th. I dont particularly think so, nietzches views on nihilism were gleened from what he perceived as a social inevitability given how society would eventually stray farther from its philosophical greek origins and dissatisfaction in the search for meaning in religion. Its hard to make a direct comparison like that as nietzche had a wide range of views on many different things that ultimately i think wouldnt mesh with Krieas perspective. In this particular case, kreia cares about the people swept up in the apparent will of the force, going off nietzches concept of the ubermensch, an exceptional person would not dwell on the sufferings of others for the sake of it, at least in a way that would compromise their belief. But yes, Yoda and the jedi, least the modern day ones, are very buddha like in philosophy, just as the sith are their opposites. Morality aside, the light and dark side boil down to one thing, the spiritual and the physical, detachment vs attachment.
"I have thought of this moment, more than you know. And I wondered if here at this ending between us, if you would care enough to try to save me. If a Jedi could find it within themselves, to spare one who has fallen so far. I wanted you to say those words. For that I am grateful,"
This is so much more impactful than anything she says, with what it says about her. No manipulation. No setting things in motion for her to achieve her will. She genuinely, maybe desperately, hoped for the Exile to say that. She almost sounds like she yearned for it.
It was the humanity in her that yearned for the compassion of a ideal jedi, but it was the pain of enduring the harsh reality of what the jedi were that pushed her forward toward her end.
Sometimes it is wise to hate repugnant things, but hatred, if not redeemed by love, is a poison that corrupts the soul in time. Kreia knew she was far past saving at this point, but wanted to know there was a person who refused to believe that.
I want to mention that I really appreciate the Obsidian actually took the time to give really dynamic shots during the dialogue moments. Bioware never did this in Kotor 1 but Obsidian really took it further showing the whole of Malachor than just two people talking
Even the cleverness of giving her the purple lightsabers, which George Lucas re-contextualized to be someone who is adept with both sides of the force. Light and dark. Truly poignant.
Not just adept with both sides, but sitting on the ends of both sides philosophically. It contrasts wonderfully with the green lightsaber, the color which sits directly in the middle between blue and red and serves as a signifier that the user’s character embodies the balance between the two in avoidance of their extremes.
There is a beautiful irony in that she, as a master manipulator, hates being manipulated by the Force.
The irony for me is that she became the very thing she hated.
@@yaujj65 That is most likely the reason why she hated the force.
I’d like to see a philosophical/theological argument about the force between Darth Traya and Qui-Gon Jinn
That'd be a nice series of video topics, don't you think?
Or how would Kreia react if she met Anakin, the Chosen One? Or someone so evil and powerhungry like Darth Sidious? Kreia-Yoda also sounds interesting
@@KobaLenk bruh Mace is just Clone Wars Vrook
@@mhm3766 That is a brilliant comparison, sir.
@@KobaLenk Or Kreia with Luke as of the NJO series, as their views on the force are basically polar opposites
I've watched this sequence a few times but it's interesting to watch it after the Passing Judgment sequence because, in this sequence, you can hear how Kreia is just....tired. This is the end, the culmination of all her plans, all her plots, and her machinations. It all comes down to a simple choice. And if she has done her calculations correctly, either way, she wins. So she is tired but satisfied.
Makes me think of tony with endgame. “You can rest now.” That is what i see in kreia and i am glad she died with honor and truth while teaching that to the exile and us.
I think we shouldn't ignore "you are greater than any I have ever trained." Kreia trained Revan for a time.
And nihilus, but maybe she doesnt mean strenght
I hate how the Exile was handled
She was basically on pair with Revan and they cast her away
The Exile could cut themselves from the Force and live afterwards. I don't think her other apprentices ( Sion, Nhilus and Revan) can, the fact that the Exile can live without the Force is what makes them great in Kreia's eyes
"The galaxy needs its betrayers, especially in the times to come." This could be referring to Anakin. His betrayals destroyed both the Jedi and the Sith, and Luke could then create a new, well-rounded Jedi Order (assuming of course that the Sequels never happened).
Hm, I suppose so.
“Now we shall see, if you can overcome the weight of Malachor, and silence the echoes that beat from its heart.”
That end, it always makes me so emotional... The Jedi are reborn, the Republic is safe, the Sith Triumvirat is over, but Meetra goes to her death as she will join Revan. And the scene with Atton, so sad !
I'm glad to see after all these years there are people who still care about this game !
The Old Republic and the Comic before it are a joke
They just killed Meetra off like she was nothing, so stupid, just stabbed in the back by a Sith, same with T3-M4
And TOR completely failed to understand Revan
@@spacejesus6581 Well bioware are kind of dumb, what can you expect other than stupid writing.
jayshaun riley yeah it depends on whether you die or not against Sion when playing as him
So, your joke has a real aspect to it, nice
Amazing game
A part of me wondered if this was just pettiness on Bioware's part. Obsidian took their story and made it a million times better. When Bioware took the story back over they mangled it. @@spacejesus6581
Best Star Wars story ever.
@@Jordan-zb1co
Piss off.
Honestly, I would've loved a hidden ending to side with Kreia of you had enough influence. Her methods are a little extreme, but her ideology is right about many things
You already side with Kreia, she wanted you to defeat her there as a final lesson. You are already working with her.
I pledge myself to your teachings, grandma.
I felt so empty inside after I beat this game only to learn there is nothing after this battle. Great game tho.
reminds me of MGSV
@@Aleebi Oh my God don't even get me started on Metal gear. Proably my favorite game series period.
@@deadlightdrifter3462 dawg, MGSV was one of the greatest disappointments of my life but im ready for delta.
snake eater is my all time favorite game so fuckin hyped
@@Aleebi I'm with you on that. Proably the last metal gear game were going to get for a long time. It will be interesting to see what happens without Kojimas input. It's looking good so far but I hope they don't screw it up.
@@deadlightdrifter3462 i actually I think it'll end up pretty good specifically because Kojima is not involved LMAO.
(getting david hayter back, etc)
hoping for a bluepoint games tier remake, or around there 🙏
The dialogue in this game is some of the best ever made
It's impossibly good, I was always left wanting more. I've never played another game quite like it.
"I have used you so that you might become strong...stronger than I. I used your death to deceive the sith, to make them believe they had won, so they would turn on each other (as they always do). I used you to keep the lords of the sith from condemning the galaxy to death with their power unchecked. I used you to lure them to Telos, where they could be at last fought and killed. I used you to reveal Atris' corruption, so that her teaching could be ended before it began. I used you to gather the Jedi so they could be destroyed. And I used you to make those who wounded me reveal themselves, so they could be killed by the Republic."
She could successfully manage and execute a coup against Palpatine. She planned and carried out a Jedi purge more successful than order 66, at the head of a Triumvirate predating the safety of the rule of two. Instead of herself wielding and becoming a slave to the powers of immortality and planet consuming hunger, she broke her apprentices into becoming the vessels for those powers, which she then directed by controlling them. When betrayed by both apprentices, she successfully usurped her supreme mantle, proving her apprentices never escaped her control, only proved their failure, by deceiving Nihilus into starving himself and breaking Sion in moments with a flick of the wrist from which he cut off her hand. She then essentially treated him as a hopeless sacrifice to the exile, so completely breaking Sions resolve that Surik was able to convince him to die. The treacherous Jedi, dead. The treacherous sith, dead. A legacy of failed students, redeemed.
All that, and you can still empathize with her on some level. And she totally succeeded in her ultimate goal, admittedly quite mundane compared to destroying the Jedi or sith or galactic conquest. All that she essentially accomplished, but it was secondary to finally producing the student of her dreams. Name one student Palpatine would say he's truly pleased with, so pleased that rather than resist usurpation by them, he would specifically groom and train them for it, and revel in their victory, at the marvel of his finest creation.
Of course, after watching the sequel trilogy, you could empathize with pre-sequel Palpatine and the empire.
After everything, after this whole journey and a lifetime of lore before it, Kreia’s ‘Greatest Pupil’ is killed by some poorly written old emporer dude and his red servant, if the saying ‘Wasted potential’ can ever be used correctly, it’s here. As a die hard Kotor fan, it’s upsets me beyond words to see what became of this amazing character, and Revan also. Yeah, WASTED POTENTIAL !
You talk about the MMO? Yeah their obsession with Revan was quite annoying. But then again, what would you expect from a MMO.
@@TurKlack the Revan novel. I personally liked it but felt that the Exile deserved far better than what she got.
I completely agree. I despise the fact that meetra was written poorly. She should have become much much more powerful than Revan and I think she should have rivaled or become stronger than the emperor himself. But they wasted her potential and completely just wrecked the story. In my Head canon though she became more powerful than both and saved Revan. And started a new better Jedi council and fought the sith empire
@@isaiahlomeli6454 didn’t her companions make a new council and order?
@@TurKlack well he is a central old republic character
There is no middle path, no Grey Jedi, no free will, only death from a predetermined path. That is a bleak Galaxy to live in
I LOVE Kreia's quote where she is talking about how the player is expecting some big twist. Some fans focus too much on big twists and reveals.
"Hurts - when I laugh... Hurts..."
This is amazing, Kotor 2 looks so modern here!
Disney really should hire the writer for KOTOR 2, this scene alone is more memorable than the entire sequels.
They should but they won't. The writer, Chris Avellone got MeToo'd.
@@PapitoQinn He won the lawsuit, as I understand it.
Hell no. The slop that Disney pumps out is unworthy of him.
Bruh, she literally pretends to be defeated in a bid to get you to kill her. If you refuse, she reveals how powerful she REALLY is, and has been this *whole time*. Kreia could have beaten the game for you probably, haha.
You know, this might be reaching, but Kreia might have had some insidious ulterior motive by having you kill here in that exact spot on Malachor V. She won't move at all, even when using all her strength to kill you, she's adamant about staying still. The Trayus Academy on the ruined Malachor V was able to manipulate the Force somehow, turning Jedi and other force sensitives to the Dark Side. Maybe it was actually specifically engineered with mystic Sith Architecture to be like a machine. Maybe some sort of a conduit or a beacon, warping the fabric of the universe in a concentrated area.
The room you face Kreia in is shaped like some sort of chamber, all the features seemingly point to the center, and beneath it is the very heart of Malachor V, filled with the energy of so many Jedi and Sith that died there and their echoes grows. At that very point, Kreia stood, after completing this overly elaborate plan to bring you here after you became incredibly powerful, full of conflicting thoughts and emotions, a great moving abyss in the Force. I won't pretend to speculate how such a ritual works, but we've seen from Obi-Wan and Yoda that they could acheive some psuedo-afterlife as Force Ghosts. Qui-Gon was the one that learned the technique and passed it on. Qui-gon never really cared for the Force, about right and wrong, he seemed rather "grey" to the whole philosophies. Maybe even he learned this technique from somewhere else, instead of discovering it himself. It doesn't seem like you have much influence as a Force Ghost, only to ones you personally know or are connected to you, but that's just me speculating.
Maybe Kreia used this place, with not only the power of all the dead spirits there, but all the ones *you* killed throughout your journey and carry with you (the game basically tells you that's how XP works, you absorb all essences from the places you go and the people you meet), like a great wound in the Force. Kinda like a moving black hole, but only for the Force energy throughout space? And she makes it so, either through anger or obligation, Sith or Jedi, you have almost no choice but to kill her, completing the ritual.
Anyway, when we strike down Kreia, she could have become more powerful that we could possibly imagine.
Wow....never thought of that....pretty cool
and later so would Revan and Meetra become that powerful who in turn pass on to others, then the knowlrdge would be lost for thousands of years until Qui-Gon rediscovers it
I don't think Kreia was as powerful as she was the entire time. Unless she was lying, which is entirely likely, she had her connection to the force drained by Nihilus when the sith triumvirate betrayed her. She likely used the last of her power to create the force bond to the exile, so that she could regain her power. She admits herself that it was a mistake, but it worked out for her in the end.
She said echoes travel through the force to all the corners of the Galaxy. Malachor was a place on which millions died at one time. Perhaps it became a nexus from which not only echoes but all kinds of force entities can travel through the force. That is why she wanted you to kill her there. So that she and her teachings would travel through the force and resonate within all lives touched by the force.
3:15 - 3:21 (boot) "There is no truth in the force. But there is truth in you exile"
2:40 - 2:46 (accept) “there is no great revelation, no great secret. There is only you.”
Font: Light Side (r2d2)
Alt: Boot “there is no great revelation, no great secret”
Accept: “there is only you”
"But perhaps these are the excuses of an old woman who has grown to rely on the thing she despises..." I've likely said this before, but it holds the truest here... The Force is a hell of a drug.
Kreia: You may take one of the ships that orbit Malachor and depart this place or you may remain here on Malachor and wait for the others, those touched by the force who will come in time. Or you may return to your Exile where your presence will no longer affect the actions of others. There is no dishonor in any of these choices. I only ask that you make the choice without
The people who wrote this must have been next level
They were and are credited with writing a lot of the best written video games.
Kreia/Darth Traya is the most underrated star wars character
"But in you... I see the potential to see the Force die, to turn away from its will. And that is what pleases me."
This is why KOTOR 2 is the my favorite Star Wars ever
It's wonderful the many lessons that TOR games teach us. You see, while many characters follow someone, there are those who lead the masses. Revan, Vitiate, Malgus, Maar, The Outlander and mainly, The Exile.
While some died of being separated of the force, like the Jedi Masters in KOTOR 2, The Exile lives. He lives because his will. The master are tied to the jedi code. They rely their lifes on the force. In the end, their will was insignificant, was supressed by their dependency in the force. The Exile, though tied too, slowly learn that the old ways are flawness. He undestand that, is not a code or the force who grant strenght, but the willingness to BE, to DO, to LEAD. The force, is not a instrument, though. The individual just shouldn't rely his decision in her.
KOTOR 2 is a masterpiece!
"I used you.." Up until that point in the game, I was disappointed with kreia being a dark lady. But then there's always much to learn..
I know this is a HEEELLLA old post, but I found it very eye opening. She didn't use the force to manipulate you, the player, at all.
If you were to spare and ask each of the Jedi Masters about the Force Bond between you and Kreia, they would tell you that they've never heard of anything as potent as you dying if the other were to die, and vice versa. It displayed one of the many reasons why her title as the Lord of Betrayal was not only well earned but aptly named. If your morals are aligned with the Jedi, your options in the dialogue is to protect her because it is right. If your morals are aligned with the Sith, your options would be more self preservation at the very least.
Maybe I'm just reaching though. I've always been a fan of these sort of revelations like Bioshock's climax/revelation
The Final Lesson: How to fight floating lightsabers.
Thats how a female characters should be written
That's how all characters should be written. Fucking amazingly.
Perhaps you were expecting some surprise, for me to reveal a secret that had eluded you, something that would change your perspective of events, shatter you to your core. There is no great revelation, no great secret. There is only you.
"Perhaps you were expecting some secret that had eluded you? Something that would change your perspective of events? Shatter you to your core? There is no great revelation, no great secret. There is only you."
That might just be the most powerful line of dialogue ever written and recorded in all of gaming.
I always wisjed i could keep kreia alive. She was like a mother to me. More then my own mother. I loved her. I never liked any of these options......
3:59 If you don’t get chills from this idk then.
“The apprentice must kill the master! If you do not, I will kill you, if I do not, then all you have achieved will be as nothing, as empty, and as violent as Malachor itself. There is more than death in this galaxy and you shall NOT find it easily. It was difficult to draw you here, but it had to be done. This place is your Last. Test.” That is SOOOO Sith, as Sith as it will Ever get!
Traya: I hate the force.
The force: well, that's too bad.
This game, I think, might be the greatest Star Wars content in existence.
And it was *incomplete*
*Unfinished*
Imagine what it could have been.
And imagine what its eventual and inevitable remake could be...
2:30 Hand down one of my favorite subversions. KOTOR has one of the most famous and iconic twists in all of gaming, KOTOR2 doesn’t but rather than that being disappointed, it only adds to how much it builds on the first one and uses it against you. Plus the dialogue there is so good you couldn’t be disappointed even if you actively wanted to, it’s so good.
The second game should have a permanent place on every storefront for all time. Likely the best writing in gaming history, never before or since even attempted.
There are some interesting things in this from other clips. The implication or confirmation of there being an echo outside of Nihlus that was, causing at the very least decay and probably "death" to other planets. This would tie in with the disciples dialog of the echo spreading out, it never really made sense to me at least that nihlus was munching through planets in some sort of expansionary manner. This does give the game a nicer sense of close but this aspect of the story isn't well developed, probably another casualty of the development.
THE FORCE IS SUCH AN ASS
Am I the only one that cried with Atton's last words?
Star Wars was a long time ago because someone killed the force after a Great War and then the remaking galaxy was a few humans who cultivated earth
"Force use as all" - yes, that what the Force truly is.
Notice how she says "you are greater than any other that I have trained". She trained Revan, so shes basically implying that The Exile has surpassed even Revan in power. And i agree with her, Revan is a badass in his own rights and has his own unique abilities, but i dont think he's a match for a literal wound on the force thats capable of draining and killing the force itself. Darth Nihilus is proof of this, the only thing that was capable of killing Nihilus was another force wound and thats why kreia needed you.
Virgin Revan vs Chad Meetra
If Kreia was around during the prequels and the Jedi cared to listen to her, Palpy would have had 0 chance
neither would the jedi have when they are pitted against each other by her machinations. Only Jin, Voss, and the Skywalkers she would've tolerated. (EU versions)
It's scenes like this that honestly was what made me go from being indifferent to Episode 8 to outright disliking it. Episode 8 pretends it is clever, a deconstruction of Star Wars. It is not, it is shallow in it's commentary. I have seen a clever, in depth deconstruction and commentary of the structure and lore of Star Wars, and it is accompanied by a great plot and intriguing characters.
Same here.
ALL of the movies lack what KOTOR had
@@oc-gg2eq nuance?
@@PaintedHoundie hk-47 ^^
I was on the flip. To dive as deep as this would have been too much but I appreciated 8 for building the foundation for the deconstruction so that we may get this level in the future
Man she is a true inspiration to the entire galaxy. And us. I love the Force and the knowledge and power it contains but to be able to do so much without it is extraordinary. To see that the Force is nothing more than a means of battle. I chose a light side consular the first time and it was amazing to see how the story went. I did not understand her goals and why she wanted to destroy the force. This is where the heart of Star Wars itself lies.
I get it now. Took time but it makes sense now. The conflict of the force leaves bodies all over the galaxy.
Because force sensitives don't have a choice when you think about it. Being in tune with it is like a drug, Jedi teachings are anti individualist and anti humanitarian, taking children away from their parents at a young age to prevent attachements, forbidding any attachment besides the bond between Master and Student and the Force in general. That mental anguish and desire for something greater, freedom, that bends Jedi to the Dark Side. Using the Force is like a drug, you're either extreme Zen with no attachments or you succumb to corruption and power. Being in the middle ground isn't a likely option either, and in truth it inquired apathy towards the struggle as there can be none to not just tip the balance but flip the scales off the table entirely. That is what Kreia wishes: she wishes to destroy the Force so that the cyclical nature of the Star Wars universe can finally come to an end, less death and suffering for everyone. Your intentions might appear noble but you've become blinded by the Light much in a way as a Sith sees only Dark. Kreia was right.
6:10 my favorite piece of music in the game
Yes! I heard it today after ~13 years of playing KOTOR and I feel so nostalgic!!! :)
I wish there was third choice to join Kreia's crusade against the force and kill it. She was truly convincing.
Just imagine if she succeeded, no last Jedi, no pod racing, etc etc.
Why can't I hug grandmama Kreia?
Gilf mommy kreia
1:50 This keeps going through my head for Baldur's Gate 3.
Yes. You are right, even though I have guessed. Almost immediately. The Emperor is much like Kreia, but he has very little depth. He does whatever he needs to survive and stay free and nothing else. He is also to a degree unknowable due to being an illithid. That would be the opposite of what Kreia wants. The whole point of what she is doing is to make others understand her. The Sith and Jedi to understand the completeness of their failure, for Meetra to understand the lessons she impars and for others to understand the importance of Meetra's success for all things in the galaxy. The Emperor is very base, while Kreia transcends self despite being a Sith. "...we are but children compared to old masters."
I swear, Treya is *SO* much like Theresa from _Fable_ that it still surprises me they don't share the same VA...
Sarah Kestleman is the single greatest thing about the Old Republic era
This is what the rise of skywalker tried to be but failed miserably
A great story with amazing characters inside a game that will most likely break itself before you see the ending.
Truly the Obsidian experience.
Modders to the rescue. Still pretty amazing they got done as much as they did in 18 months.
"Many choices were there. But, you made the right ones"
Since peragus they had always been there, to see them both lost now on that dead husk of a planet...it turns my heart to stone.
When I first played this game I didn't understand much of the story. All I remembered about Kreia from that first playthrough was: conufsing grumpy old lady who I always lose influence with. Well since then I've replayed the game many times and now I consider her one of the greatest characters ever written.
One thing I remember from when I replayed KOTOR2 a few years ago is the ending cutscene where the Ebon Hawk leaves MalachorV. The scene(and the music) is hopeful yet melancholic, it provided a strange contrast to the "star wars credits theme' that plays after it in the credits. When I beat the game I felt more like I survived, made it through, escaped. In contrast, when I beat KOTOR1 the ending felt triumphant, like I had saved the world.(In both of theese cases I got the light side ending btw)
Please tell me I’m not the only one who cried for Kreia at the end. Stuff like that is why I have so much trouble playing the Dark Side.
„I‘m not being overdramatic!“
Also me: (6:16)
Kreia was always sith. Simply wished for more than that. Revenge was always her game plan. She can talk about her disdain for the force. But ultimately, she envied the exiles disconnection from the force. She wanted to mold you to be what her vision could muster into reality. She looked at the force as a living organism that somehow was okay with the Sith and Jedi. and wanted you to destroy these tropes. In a way shape her own balance. But ultimately was Sith.
It's really tough to decipher everything. The writing feels incomplete. Kreia is an interesting character because she acts very much like a normal human to some degree. But she still feels unfinished. I admire this game a lot. This game takes what StarWars has for themes. Add's it's own little dark twist to it, with some well developed characters. I dare say better than most of the movies minus Anakin.. And I think that's cool. Also I consider this A Sith story, so it's even better.
"You will not show me mercy. I will see you break before you do."
Damn
[1:36/1:50/3:38/4:31] Some of my favorite quotes from her.
I think the other possible dialog that she could say here is better "I do not want your mercy. I want you to be complete, as you were meant to be, to let the echoes die and hear the sound of the force again." Encompass the Exile's whole journey in one line of dialog
6:27 Atton's death is so tragic :(
Please please ! After episode 3 of The Acolyte, we need your wisdom once more!
Kriea is such a good twist. This whole plot line is the antithesis of Star Wars, so much fun to deconstruct the nonsense of star wars mythology. Kreia is a very fun antagonist to challenge the ignorance of the jedi path
Is it just me, or is every great scene from the new Star Wars something that Chris Avelone has written already?
Kreaia you have been my teacher for 20 years now and I have learned a lot of knowledge from especially about war, I love as a mother would love their daughter and we will always and forever cradle one another. ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤we will forever be incerpiable Kreaia.. your student Papatia Quinn
I had no idea about that scene with Atton. I managed to defeat Siln somehow so he was just waiting there.
He sure was: ua-cam.com/video/sJ9EDrDxBQM/v-deo.html
I chose to use his death for artistic reasons.
Fantastic game, one of the best
I loved atton he is the true one to me
This game is so deep, the dialog and conversations about the force relate to real life a bit too much, i love the knowledge it offers! Especially from Kreia!
I. NEED. MORE.
I got hours. Literally days worth of KoTOR 2 content. Have fun.
Revan (memories restored) and Kreia were unable to redeem themselves. This makes Anakin’s redemption unique since it has never happened before in Legends.
Not exactly, Ulic Qel-Droma found redemption. Although his case was different from Anakin's
There is no great revelation, no secret. There is only you.
The Last Jedi....pffftt what a joke compared to this.
Even Empire Strikes Back is a joke compared to this.
Yes man
So is every other star wars movie moron
this joke to the whole prequel story
@@Visitormassacre Glad to see I'm not the only one who considers ESB the franchise-defining work.
I think the true value of KotorII is not it deconstructing SW but how deconstruction was used to expand upon the themes already present in the fanchise, such as the role of the Jedi or the foibles of the Sith.
What about NJO or LotF tho?.
Huh, I thought you would've included Traya's future predictions.
Video would have been pretty long and I had an idea for that part. You'll see.
Papito Qinn i wish a dark side version of the future
Boba fett is the last mandalorian, the end xD
Why must there always be a Darth Traya?
Because betrayal brings about much change, greater echo's that for good or ill will send future events into motion, where before a thing may have become or stayed static. being of use or serving no-one, think of all the greater changes brought about at the conclusion of a war. of any conflict large or small and realise that through the myriad betrayals people were tested, through conflict, through action or inaction shaped in new ways by unforseen consequence. "to believe in an ideal is to be willing to betray it."
5:20 May I get the name of the music used here? I would love to get to listen to it, it's such a perfect addition to this scene, I love it.
in the real world, you can compare the force to God and Kreia is an Atheist, she wants people to have a life not interfered by God's will. This is why I really like her as a character, I feel the same way. the fact that some cosmic being might be controlling everything is abhorrant to me.
You know theres many religion not comnected to abrahamic believes
Never before or again there will be a game this deep. We have lost this with Mass Effect and Elder Scrolls.
Kreia is that one antagonist that makes you wonder what would happen if she succeeded. What would’ve changed if she really could destroy the Force? On the one hand, it would FINALLY put a stop to every one of these wars between Jedi and Sith. But on the other hand, the Force flows through every living thing. By destroying the Force, wouldn’t that destroy life itself? Interesting stuff to think about. Would make for an interesting Game Theory amiright?
I mean, killing the force kills all living things in the universe. So it'd be a shitshow.
@@Darth_Xionn that’s one way to put it
i think if she really wanted to kill the force, she would of left Nihilus alive. because ultimately that was Nihilus goal, was to drain all of the force. But kreia knew that killing the force would be killing all life itself, so instead she put her faith in the exile. another wound in the force, to prove that someone could lose the force, continue on without it and then become stronger for it. That was her ultimate revenge on the jedi and sith.
@@Darth_Xionn Regardless of whether or not you use it, solar power is a thing, and yet despite that, few people nowadays worship the sun. Killing the Will of the Force is different from killing midichlorians. It's just killing midichlorians personified. It's like killing Louie the last elemental spirit in Dies irae: Interview with Kaziklu Bey does not kill his element (of darkness). It just destroys that personality (all the other elemental spirits already died). Want to kill the Will of the Force? Simple. Make it a commodity. Research artificial ways to make people Force sensitive. Make Force powers be bought and sold. It's like Hanneman's research into giving and removing Crests in Fire Emblem 3 Houses. No longer will "the Goddess" have the monopoly on those "blessings", if anyone can get it and/or discard it.