The first mechanical keyboard I ever used was a Model F of some description. Was in high school at the time and didn't know anything about keyboards back then, but I'll never forget the feel or sound. Best keyboard I've ever used. Currently my best keyboard is a Corsair K70 with Cherry MX Browns with one third of it's LEDs not working... I feel like something went wrong with my life.
YellowSuperNintendo Build a keyboard! Exotic switches, cases, plates, and keycaps can draw closer to that peak than any modern mass produced product. I use box Navy switches, but I hear that box pale blue remind people of the model F. Or get one of those new ones from modelfkeyboards.com
The F122 was actually first used with the 3270 PC, an XT which included terminal emulation hardware. The 122 keys were necessary because the 3270 PC needed to be able to perform terminal functions as well as PC ones. IBM later distributed this keyboard with their terminals, but some of the keys were left blank, because the terminals didn't need to use the PC specific keys.
In case you were wondering, 6110344 was the part number for the 3270 PC keyboard. The blue legends are the PC specific keys, whereas the normal black ones were for terminal programs. I a lucky enough to have the whole PC so I can show it in action if anyone is interested.
I used to game on a membrane keyboard all my life and somehow never touched a mechanical keyboard until the day I bought one myself thanks to a friend that opened my eyes, not even in school were any mechs, only cheap membrane keyboards. I was skeptical as well if the higher price was even worth it and I agree it was worth it but maybe not so much on the performance side maybe since it is maybe 2 seconds or so faster than my older membrane but I feel like I can control it better apart from the more satisfying type feel which after all is subjective, feared that the keyboard might be loud but the cherry mx reds aren't very loud and are really nice for gaming. Fell slowly in love with the feel of the mechanical switches, the much better build quality and materials compared to a plastic membrane keyboard, the looks ,the fact that I can change keycaps if I want, the open board design that allows me to clean the keyboard easier and since the keyboard was expensive enough I have some of the best rgb lighting and media keys, lighting is mandatory for me since my room is drowning in shade from the nearby trees. I first fell in love with my (maybe you guessed it) K70 rgb lux with mx reds then I got curious about other mechanical keyboards there are and I think I am slowly getting pulled into this hobby, I itch to try new switches but keyboards, especially the good ones are more expensive so I cannot hoard them like I hoarded gaming mice so far and the biggest electronic store nearby has mostly razer keyboards on display only. I must say you're one of the reasons I am becoming more and more fascinated by keyboards, also bonus points for the sexy voice, #nohomo.
Can't wait to see your review of one of the Model F repros. Hopefully it holds up. Also your Project I is gorgeous, might be my favorite model f layout
Thanks for bringing back my 4707 heartache. I SO wish I had shelled out for an F107 back when they were remotely available. I've got an FXT in great shape but I'll always have an F107 sized hole in my collection.
I bought two of Ellipse's F77s. One is to remain sealed in the original box, the other I am using. It is freaking great! I recommend them over restoring the originals, because they are equivalent to the originals plus they have programmable hardware already. These things will probably fetch a high price in a couple decades!
FarhanAxiq I took money outta my savings account. I only make bad money decisions on stuff that will increase in value. a limited run of new model fs is bound to only increase in value, so if you end up no longer wanting it (idk why you would) your more than likely going to be able to at least turn a profit.
They were excellent, far snappier than model M's. But the layout is somewhat clumsy. I wander why no one had tried to make capacitive version of model M. I mean, model M layout with capacitive buckling spring switches. It could be awesome.
I definitely remember the first time I used a Model F with my friends' dad's 5150 back in the early 80's. It was like nothing I'd ever typed on before. Nowadays I have both an XT F and various M's and for various reasons I prefer the M's overall, but I do agree that the key feel and build quality of the F is a tiny bit better. I do not have an AT Model F and that might be kind of the holy grail keyboard with the best of both worlds, but as you say they are not cheap or easy to come by.
I think I've never been so excited by a UA-cam notification, and that's a holy testicule shish kebab good video. And even if it's not today's topic, what are your thoughts about cherry's retooled switch
neitsab repplak the retooled switches are a beautiful illustration of what happens when a company that wallows in monopoly suddenly gets overrun by competition it hasn't faced in twenty years. Cherry still does excellent business, but their products are getting more scrutinised now that others can make the same lacking products at a fraction of the cost, and others can make superior alternatives. It's textbook.
They can retool as much as they want, fact is - I personally like Kailh BOX and low-profile better than any Cherry MX at the moment. And this is one of the things that may get Cherry rethink their strategy. Too bad big commercial brands in keyboard manufacturing adopt Cherry in their products, because of sales. It is something like the stupid Apple hype.
In elementary school I would go to the comouter lab, a room full of clacking M’s. I still remember the sound of that room. They knew what they were doing with these keyboards. Luxurious
I just picked up a Model F for my newly acquired IBM 5150. I've been using a 1987 Model M for years, and it looks and feels cheap in comparison, this thing is ridiculous.
I'm a super analytical person and I like to know as much as I can on topics that interest me and especially before I am planning on purchasing something. I have to say I absolutely love this videos for the Model F and Model M keyboards!!!!! So in depth and I know enjoy the thought that someone isn't going to sell me something that isn't named right or the correct model I am after. I really appreciated seeing the Model M descriptions of issues they can have due to how they are built as well they can be fixed. Keep up the great work! I did have one question though. I am in the market for a model F (one of the first in this video) and I was wondering what all to look for. I see some for around 100-120 and they say refurbished and cleaned on a lot of them. Would these be okay or is there anything done to them that would cause you to stay away from them. I know Model F's are built like tanks but I also remember on your videos especially with the Model M series that if they get too much dirt and grime in them they cannot be fully restored to feel right. So Just wanted to have any additional pointers for both Model F and Model M that I should looking for when purchasing one. Thanks!
I got to pick up a F107 at a meetup a couple months ago, and I have to say: I REALLY want one! The sheer mass of the thing was incredibly impressive, And it felt like it could survive anything. That said, my dream Model F is the Unsaver by far, and I remember watching that last one sell on ebay, and just how shocking it was to go for such an obscenely high price, even outpricing beamsprings.
That's a great review, of my first ever keyboard. I miss the good old days. Everything was better back then. I still own two model m's, typing this on my UK made from 1991. But, after i get a good model F, i'll make it my main keyboard again :) And yes, your channel is the best for us, click-clackers :)
I found a Model F XT "Bigfoot" keyboard in an abandoned office. Its cable was beyond saving and the machine it was connected to was nowhere to be found. It still has about 55 cm of cable (or roughly 3 and a half cola can for our freedom people) , though I don't know if it's even useful to keep. It has been made in 1985, and has a uniquely bizarre AZERTY layout that is very much unlike any modern AZERTY layout I've ever seen. The keycaps are in good condition, and the keys themselves seem to all buckle properly, though the 4 key on the number pad is missing its spring. Everything on the inside seems fine... Is what I would have said if it didn't have some of that weird white corrosion-like thing on the metal plate, though it did not seem to affect anything else in the keyboard; And it is also missing the foam pad on the PCB. Speaking of the PCB, it seems fine too, but unfortunately, I have no way of testing if the thing works at all or not. The triple-step feet are here and present, as well as all the screws holding the keyboard together, and it also still has its four little rounded feet for when the keyboard is laid out entirely flat. Some stickers seem to have been removed, but there were still 3 on the backplate, with this : --- *1761215* E.C. 528365A 30-OCT-1985 MANUFACTURED IN UNITED KINGDOM --- --- P.N. 6110520 E.C. 528338 --- Unfortunately, whilst it still feels incredibly nice to type on, I cannot use it, and I do not have any of the necessary tools to test if it works. It would be a waste to keep it to myself, as it would just sit in a random box, sitting on a shelf for the rest of its life. How much should I sell it for, and is there even anyone who would be interested? I would really like some help here, cheers :-)
Can you review the Model F Industrial Oak Switch Membrane Keyboard, If you can find one? Or a similar Oak Switch System Keyboard. Thanks for keeping us entertained.
I have yet to see a proper review from a larger channel on the repro run of model fs. I'm seriously considering getting the f77 but I wanted to get some more opinions on it and the layout before pulling the trigger.
Did you pull the trigger yet? I've been using my two NMFs (F62 and F77) for serious work for closer to a year now, as have many others. The NMF repros aren't toys in the slightest and every bit the match of my Model F AT - actually a bit better since they smooth out the weaknesses of the OG Model Fs, like the too-stiff spacebar. Wait too long and the production run will end, and the F77 in particular you will never find an original one of.
I found one F77 on the street. I love it and the best of these 4704 keyboard series is that all of them have a solenoid. Check my post in deskauthority: deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=22176
I'm only finding one of the "AT" Model F's on Ebay right now, and the guy is charging more than the newly-made ones from modelfkeyboards.com. I was thinking of getting an "XT" layout one with a Soarer's Converter...surely the odd layout wouldn't take too much getting used to!
You could reprogram it, to any layout you want. E bay model Fs really vary a lot in condition, you never know what you'll get. I'd recommend buying one from Deskthority. Tbh, just get one of the reproductions if you want a reliable daily driver.
Back in the day, ~85 got to take a binary programming class, played with a very old terminal system, a PC, PC AT, and PC Jr The Blue key one has some use these days, in Health Care here in the US we use some terminal emulators that require all inputs to be done in Caps, which is why sometimes claim processors at work will "yell" at you when using out chat support method
I can't think of a single video terminal, teletype, 8 bit micro or workstation that did not have the control key on the home row. In fact I remember people jokingly referring to the AT layout change as paid for by Word Perfect. Whatever possessed IBM to move the control key to Egypt was hated by pretty much so everyone that used terminal based applications. Especially Word Star and Emacs users.
Excellent thanks. I think its worth a video exploring the origins of keyboards in typewriters though, particularly in the IBM typewriters - if you've used a selectric you will be struck by how familiar and XT like the keyboard layout is - clearly the progenitor of the XT and later keyboards. Given how loud typewriters were, its interesting to speculate whether the sound of computer keyboards was a feature of the early ones - maybe that distinctive and satisfying clack of the XT was partially an attempt to recreate the typing experience as many typists transitioned to using computers.
I really like your reviews and insights, but I would like to know where you learned your typing style. It is not all that uncommon for a "floating" technique normally adopted by men with large hands on a traditional layout 104 key PC style keyboard. Meaning, for comfort the the wrists are straight (ergonomic), or at least straighter, which is not possible when using this style keyboard in traditional touch typing (fingers resting on keys) position for men with large hands (wrists are angled and bent). An ergo split keypad or Kinesis type tries to solve this issue by allowing you to seperate your hands more in relation to your arms extended outward from your shoulders. If you type a lot in your work, like a computer programmer (or coder), relatively speaking, much time is waisted in travel when the fingers are floating and not resting on the "home" keys, even though it is still touch typing without looking at the keys as you type. It may not seem like much until you actually watch a coder typing at full speed, especially if they are required by software requirements to make a comment on every line or major statement (instruction) when coding. Interesting to me is the fact that one can see the advantages of a Dvorak layout, but these diminish when the coder can customized (reconfigure) the layout to meet their style. Also, many times you are forced to use an uncustomized nonergonomic design and you can still touch type quickly to do small tasks (with a lot of discomfort), like at a software test station.
What do you think of the new model f kishsavers being produced now, I am going to get one but have to save some money first. P.S You said that the Corsair k70 is cheap even though it sits at around 170USD?
So where do i have a chance to get my hands on the re-run Model F's? EDIT: Found out: www.modelfkeyboards.com/ for everyone else that wants/needs one now
I miss the days when the keyboards had a single caste metal chassis. Every keyboard I have used since (even the tank like Black Widow I'm now typing on) feels flimsy.
Do you happen to know about model A keyboards? I saw one for sale on ebay and it has an ibm badge near the lights and the label clearly says model A on the sticker but according to the internet it doesn't seem to exist and is instead the name of a typewriter It was pretty cheap so I assume it might be a rubber dome but I'm almost tempted to get it considering it seems unknown
I would like to own either the F107 or the F122 someday. The F122 has more keys and I prefer the look of it, but the F107 also has enough keys and is built like a Soviet tank by the sounds of it.
I lubed up my model M with teflon grease for bicycles and it really reduced the ping and ironically increased binding on large keys when lubed too much. I like the mod.
the grease can damage the rubber mat and membranes under the springs, so it actually isn't very good for the board. there is a floss mod that does this but it doesn't damage the keyboard and is fully reversible.
Amazing. How does the Model F and Model M, compare to the best mechanical keyboards today from DAS, Corsair, Logitech, Gamdias, Thermaltake and other not so popular but great keyboard makers? Thanks.
They don't compare, the model f and m are completely out of those keyboards league, you can buy new, modern model fs and ms today the modern model ms go for about 100dollars/euros, and the modern model fs cost around 400
Back in the days of data entry with nothing, but numbers by HAND, I loved the model F keyboard. It was like using a a very good 10 key calculator ( SHARP'S anyone?) I have never BEEN a touch typist ( sorry) but a great deal of my work revolved around entering numbers into a computer program. For the KIND of work that i did, the IBM MODEL F was unbeatable. The "+" key served as an ENTER KEY and I have NO idea why the layout changed to have a SEPARATE "ENTER" key to the numeric pad layout?? Can SOME ONE give me a rational explanation as to why THIS was done? THANK YOU!
I think perhaps the ultimate keyboard would be one using Model F mechanisms and construction, the Model M layout (no Windows keys!) and a smart controller that can speak PC/XT, AT/PS2 and USB protocols. Just plug in the right cable for what you want to use it with, flick the protocol switch to the appropriate position and away you go.
Really? Even the smart controller and swappable cables part? Actually, I noticed an oversight in my original comment. I wrote PC/XT as if the two used the same protocol (and I think you might have said so in the video). Turns out they don't. While the data transmission part is the same, they use different ways to reset the keyboard. The PC has a dedicated reset line, while the XT has the system send a sequence on the clock and data lines.
I can't believe how expensive Model F keyboards became. Just three years ago an F XT was $100 USD and I considered that expensive with AT being $380 USD (Ebay pricing). I got my F AT for $180 as it was untested. I took it apart and plugged in a loose cable and it's been my favorite keyboard since. I do want a USB converter so I have a way to get F12 as a layer key.
@@nerdyneedsalife8315 You are very lucky to get an F AT at that price range, let alone untested. Nowadays on Ebay for example they can go up to $250 or more and already used.
@@DrWiki-po1hk Oh I count my blessings with this keyboard ever since demand for them increased. I didn't think I would get endgame so early. I heard great things about beam springs but I know I will never justify that price and I don't have context for that anyway. I wanted to build a custom keyboard but I've held off because I know nothing will beat the Model F in key feel.
Size is related to amount of buttons which relates to convenience and weight generally relates to build quality. Neither directly influence typing feel.
How difficult is it to "learn" the XT layout? I keep drooling over the Model F. I am debating if I should upgrade my "meh" keyboard to either a Model M or Model F. I have used the Model M and loved it, however, I haven't tried the Model F. I am just not sure if the Model F is good enough to justify me getting pissed off constantly for typing the wrong keys (I program for a hobby and type way too much for work). It seems like it would be worse than using my wife's German laptop. I despise using that thing when I have to type a complicated password. Although my wife has no problem using a US keyboard at work.
Nicholas Monter it's actually not THAT bad, the worst is getting used to the control placement, IMO. But some people even prefer that. Watch its review if you're interested :) .
Waffle PC Yes, if a board is AT, it is natively compatible with PS/2. Note that many modern PCs don't use a TRUE but an emulated PS/2 port and in some combinations this can cause trouble. But usually it's fine.
God I have a corsair strafe and that comment about corsair hurt my heart 😭 I would agree with you if you said that about Razer but corsair's keybs are really durable imo
the keycaps are shit and the switches are floating, so imo there are better options. this above feeling is something called choice supportive bias, where the more you spend on something the more you try to justify it. Razer boards are honestly a tad more durable and have better switches (at least the huntsman). This comes from someone who has a Strafe, a Huntsman, an F122 and M122, and several other boards.
What switch would you recommend for a gamer other then gateron cherry and kailh im looking for a better mx brown key feel but fail to find one thats actually tactile
A good choice, but an expensive one, and not easy to get hold of in good condition. It might be worth first trying out a cheaper Alps, simplified Alps or Alps clone board first and then decide on if you want more of the same. With anything Alps the capital rule is to find one that's really clean or they'll feel like shit!
Hello, a question! I am the owner of two keyboards, Model 100 F50 IBM 4704, and I would like to know if someone has transformed it into USB with any controller? Thank you in advance. If someone wants one, could they help me transform mine, and I'll give them the extra one I have as a gift.
I would *love* to try one of these out, but how on earth do I ever get my hands on one? I live in the sticks, USA, probably hundreds of kilometers away from anyone else who even knows that there's something out there better than their dell rubber dome abomination. And of course, I don't have thousands to spend on ebay. I wish there were enough keyboard enthusiasts in my corner of nowhere to justify a meetup.
I'm obsessed with keyboards now what have you done to me
Soup Man xD
He has saved you? ^^
I watched his reviews just to hear the typing sounds. Now I have an NTC kB 6151, ibm pingmaster, and a Model f xt.
Fuck
@@NostarPlays I'm up to about 50 now. It`s mostly Tom's fault. Thanks Tom!! :-) Typing this on a Model F XT
The first mechanical keyboard I ever used was a Model F of some description. Was in high school at the time and didn't know anything about keyboards back then, but I'll never forget the feel or sound. Best keyboard I've ever used. Currently my best keyboard is a Corsair K70 with Cherry MX Browns with one third of it's LEDs not working... I feel like something went wrong with my life.
YellowSuperNintendo Build a keyboard! Exotic switches, cases, plates, and keycaps can draw closer to that peak than any modern mass produced product. I use box Navy switches, but I hear that box pale blue remind people of the model F.
Or get one of those new ones from modelfkeyboards.com
Alan Leiva he could just buy a model F instead and get the real deal. XTs are great and still cheap.
Stephen Moriel tell my more about this mystical place you can get a cheap model F...
yeah I wouldn't call £300 cheap, though I have seen the F122 go for €400 not too long ago, a QWERTZ one.
@YellowSuperNintendo I hope your keyboard fortunes have improved since this was posted
My mum used to work as a secretary of sorts in the 80s and was paid to type on a Displaywriter Model F.
I've never been more jealous.
IBM made even the secretariat interesting xD .
The F122 was actually first used with the 3270 PC, an XT which included terminal emulation hardware. The 122 keys were necessary because the 3270 PC needed to be able to perform terminal functions as well as PC ones. IBM later distributed this keyboard with their terminals, but some of the keys were left blank, because the terminals didn't need to use the PC specific keys.
William Murray very interesting, I didn't know that! :)
In case you were wondering, 6110344 was the part number for the 3270 PC keyboard. The blue legends are the PC specific keys, whereas the normal black ones were for terminal programs. I a lucky enough to have the whole PC so I can show it in action if anyone is interested.
I used to game on a membrane keyboard all my life and somehow never touched a mechanical keyboard until the day I bought one myself thanks to a friend that opened my eyes, not even in school were any mechs, only cheap membrane keyboards.
I was skeptical as well if the higher price was even worth it and I agree it was worth it but maybe not so much on the performance side maybe since it is maybe 2 seconds or so faster than my older membrane but I feel like I can control it better apart from the more satisfying type feel which after all is subjective, feared that the keyboard might be loud but the cherry mx reds aren't very loud and are really nice for gaming. Fell slowly in love with the feel of the mechanical switches, the much better build quality and materials compared to a plastic membrane keyboard, the looks ,the fact that I can change keycaps if I want, the open board design that allows me to clean the keyboard easier and since the keyboard was expensive enough I have some of the best rgb lighting and media keys, lighting is mandatory for me since my room is drowning in shade from the nearby trees.
I first fell in love with my (maybe you guessed it) K70 rgb lux with mx reds then I got curious about other mechanical keyboards there are and I think I am slowly getting pulled into this hobby, I itch to try new switches but keyboards, especially the good ones are more expensive so I cannot hoard them like I hoarded gaming mice so far and the biggest electronic store nearby has mostly razer keyboards on display only.
I must say you're one of the reasons I am becoming more and more fascinated by keyboards, also bonus points for the sexy voice, #nohomo.
it's midnight thomas. i was ready to catch some Zs and then you have to go on about your Fs. DAMN YOU
alright fine i'll watch
Ollie7475 I was up until 4:30 AM editing as well xD .
Holy shit Thomas is typing like a normal person, I just noticed.
what the fuck..?
No he isn't, don't worry.
abc Close enough at least
I just got a Model F XT for 20 bucks in box barely used at a yard sale, and watching this video it makes me realize how special it really is
your xt typing demonstration has been my daily life for a few months now
Can't wait to see your review of one of the Model F repros. Hopefully it holds up. Also your Project I is gorgeous, might be my favorite model f layout
Thanks for bringing back my 4707 heartache. I SO wish I had shelled out for an F107 back when they were remotely available. I've got an FXT in great shape but I'll always have an F107 sized hole in my collection.
Never have I swiped my phone's screen so hard and so fast
me
hell yeah!! All of your long reviews are some of my favorite videos on UA-cam, I swear.
I bought two of Ellipse's F77s. One is to remain sealed in the original box, the other I am using. It is freaking great! I recommend them over restoring the originals, because they are equivalent to the originals plus they have programmable hardware already. These things will probably fetch a high price in a couple decades!
I must get one of those Kishsavers....and an F77.
JOIN US, BROTHER
we have cliccs
You and me both brother... One day.
we only grow in numbers
if only i have the money (or somehow found them in a thrift store)
FarhanAxiq I took money outta my savings account. I only make bad money decisions on stuff that will increase in value. a limited run of new model fs is bound to only increase in value, so if you end up no longer wanting it (idk why you would) your more than likely going to be able to at least turn a profit.
Just bought an XT right before you posted the video. Gonna be my first real original IBM keyboard (Currently using a Unicomp ultra Classic). Cheers!
This video brought back a lot of good memories for me from that era. I loved my Model F.
They were excellent, far snappier than model M's. But the layout is somewhat clumsy. I wander why no one had tried to make capacitive version of model M. I mean, model M layout with capacitive buckling spring switches. It could be awesome.
They did. Look up "Project MF" on Deskthority.
I definitely remember the first time I used a Model F with my friends' dad's 5150 back in the early 80's. It was like nothing I'd ever typed on before. Nowadays I have both an XT F and various M's and for various reasons I prefer the M's overall, but I do agree that the key feel and build quality of the F is a tiny bit better. I do not have an AT Model F and that might be kind of the holy grail keyboard with the best of both worlds, but as you say they are not cheap or easy to come by.
I think I've never been so excited by a UA-cam notification, and that's a holy testicule shish kebab good video.
And even if it's not today's topic, what are your thoughts about cherry's retooled switch
neitsab repplak the retooled switches are a beautiful illustration of what happens when a company that wallows in monopoly suddenly gets overrun by competition it hasn't faced in twenty years. Cherry still does excellent business, but their products are getting more scrutinised now that others can make the same lacking products at a fraction of the cost, and others can make superior alternatives. It's textbook.
They can retool as much as they want, fact is - I personally like Kailh BOX and low-profile better than any Cherry MX at the moment. And this is one of the things that may get Cherry rethink their strategy. Too bad big commercial brands in keyboard manufacturing adopt Cherry in their products, because of sales. It is something like the stupid Apple hype.
Unfortunately, Cherry have made the mistake of forgetting that their market is already a niche.
*tearing up* it's beautiful.
Conpletely unrelated but did you know Kailh used your video at their booth at Computex 2018? Specifically your Box Royals video.
ZippetySticks haha no I didn't know that, thanks for letting me know! And I didn't even make that video in conjunction with them! XD
Chyrosran22 Haha yeah I should have recorded it but you'll have to take my word for it. They also showed randomfrankp's videos as well.
Chyrosran22 Yeah they showed your G80-3000 Kailh BOX White video too, it's on @kailh_amyhowe's Instagram.
Used a model F when I was growing. Loved that keyboard. Wish I still had it.
I see MauLer is a man with a wide range of interests: not only does he have a film review channel, but he produces keyboard review content as well!
In elementary school I would go to the comouter lab, a room full of clacking M’s. I still remember the sound of that room. They knew what they were doing with these keyboards. Luxurious
I just picked up a Model F for my newly acquired IBM 5150. I've been using a 1987 Model M for years, and it looks and feels cheap in comparison, this thing is ridiculous.
Brand New Model F Keyboards: www.modelfkeyboards.com/
Great exhaustive model F review. Thanks for the clicky wonderfulness.
I'm a super analytical person and I like to know as much as I can on topics that interest me and especially before I am planning on purchasing something. I have to say I absolutely love this videos for the Model F and Model M keyboards!!!!! So in depth and I know enjoy the thought that someone isn't going to sell me something that isn't named right or the correct model I am after. I really appreciated seeing the Model M descriptions of issues they can have due to how they are built as well they can be fixed. Keep up the great work! I did have one question though. I am in the market for a model F (one of the first in this video) and I was wondering what all to look for. I see some for around 100-120 and they say refurbished and cleaned on a lot of them. Would these be okay or is there anything done to them that would cause you to stay away from them. I know Model F's are built like tanks but I also remember on your videos especially with the Model M series that if they get too much dirt and grime in them they cannot be fully restored to feel right. So Just wanted to have any additional pointers for both Model F and Model M that I should looking for when purchasing one. Thanks!
I like it when Chyrosran says “…ever made”.
Hallelujah, another video! It's almost 2AM but I don't care, this takes priorty.
Thomas please do a top 5 best modern switch, i wager your favourite modern switch is either Unicomp buckling spring or Matias Click
Love your videos! Keep up the great work!
I got to pick up a F107 at a meetup a couple months ago, and I have to say: I REALLY want one! The sheer mass of the thing was incredibly impressive, And it felt like it could survive anything. That said, my dream Model F is the Unsaver by far, and I remember watching that last one sell on ebay, and just how shocking it was to go for such an obscenely high price, even outpricing beamsprings.
I applaud your ability to correctly pluralise "Model F."
That's a great review, of my first ever keyboard. I miss the good old days. Everything was better back then. I still own two model m's, typing this on my UK made from 1991. But, after i get a good model F, i'll make it my main keyboard again :) And yes, your channel is the best for us, click-clackers :)
I found a Model F XT "Bigfoot" keyboard in an abandoned office.
Its cable was beyond saving and the machine it was connected to was nowhere to be found.
It still has about 55 cm of cable (or roughly 3 and a half cola can for our freedom people) , though I don't know if it's even useful to keep.
It has been made in 1985, and has a uniquely bizarre AZERTY layout that is very much unlike any modern AZERTY layout I've ever seen.
The keycaps are in good condition, and the keys themselves seem to all buckle properly, though the 4 key on the number pad is missing its spring.
Everything on the inside seems fine... Is what I would have said if it didn't have some of that weird white corrosion-like thing on the metal plate, though it did not seem to affect anything else in the keyboard; And it is also missing the foam pad on the PCB.
Speaking of the PCB, it seems fine too, but unfortunately, I have no way of testing if the thing works at all or not.
The triple-step feet are here and present, as well as all the screws holding the keyboard together, and it also still has its four little rounded feet for when the keyboard is laid out entirely flat.
Some stickers seem to have been removed, but there were still 3 on the backplate, with this :
---
*1761215*
E.C. 528365A
30-OCT-1985
MANUFACTURED IN UNITED KINGDOM
---
---
P.N. 6110520
E.C. 528338
---
Unfortunately, whilst it still feels incredibly nice to type on, I cannot use it, and I do not have any of the necessary tools to test if it works.
It would be a waste to keep it to myself, as it would just sit in a random box, sitting on a shelf for the rest of its life.
How much should I sell it for, and is there even anyone who would be interested?
I would really like some help here, cheers :-)
At 8:26 ...thats one octave difference. Lovely
Somehow I like the sound of the F XT most.
What a show-off of the F army at the thumbnail. xD
Buying that K70 RGB Brown was a huge mistake.
I just got an XT Model F for $160! With THE PC (5150) and monitor (5151).
"The instrument of doom" LOL I get it
After that I said "I cast a deadly shadow..."
Can you review the Model F Industrial Oak Switch Membrane Keyboard, If you can find one? Or a similar Oak Switch System Keyboard. Thanks for keeping us entertained.
I have yet to see a proper review from a larger channel on the repro run of model fs. I'm seriously considering getting the f77 but I wanted to get some more opinions on it and the layout before pulling the trigger.
Did you pull the trigger yet? I've been using my two NMFs (F62 and F77) for serious work for closer to a year now, as have many others. The NMF repros aren't toys in the slightest and every bit the match of my Model F AT - actually a bit better since they smooth out the weaknesses of the OG Model Fs, like the too-stiff spacebar.
Wait too long and the production run will end, and the F77 in particular you will never find an original one of.
I found one F77 on the street. I love it and the best of these 4704 keyboard series is that all of them have a solenoid. Check my post in deskauthority:
deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=22176
Já comprei meu Model F. Não vejo a hora de ele chegar!!
I'm only finding one of the "AT" Model F's on Ebay right now, and the guy is charging more than the newly-made ones from modelfkeyboards.com. I was thinking of getting an "XT" layout one with a Soarer's Converter...surely the odd layout wouldn't take too much getting used to!
You could reprogram it, to any layout you want. E bay model Fs really vary a lot in condition, you never know what you'll get. I'd recommend buying one from Deskthority. Tbh, just get one of the reproductions if you want a reliable daily driver.
Back in the day, ~85 got to take a binary programming class, played with a very old terminal system, a PC, PC AT, and PC Jr
The Blue key one has some use these days, in Health Care here in the US we use some terminal emulators that require all inputs to be done in Caps, which is why sometimes claim processors at work will "yell" at you when using out chat support method
Why am I binge watching videos on old keyboards while looking at keycaps?
I hate the fact that I now have both the AT and the XT in my collection.
I fully blame you for this Thomas.
I can't think of a single video terminal, teletype, 8 bit micro or workstation that did not have the control key on the home row. In fact I remember people jokingly referring to the AT layout change as paid for by Word Perfect. Whatever possessed IBM to move the control key to Egypt was hated by pretty much so everyone that used terminal based applications. Especially Word Star and Emacs users.
Finaly i have a IBM Model F XT including a Soros converter.It works very wel.Ive got the IBM 5155 too.Its indeed all build for a life time.
Excellent thanks. I think its worth a video exploring the origins of keyboards in typewriters though, particularly in the IBM typewriters - if you've used a selectric you will be struck by how familiar and XT like the keyboard layout is - clearly the progenitor of the XT and later keyboards. Given how loud typewriters were, its interesting to speculate whether the sound of computer keyboards was a feature of the early ones - maybe that distinctive and satisfying clack of the XT was partially an attempt to recreate the typing experience as many typists transitioned to using computers.
Graeme Robinson I've already done a typewriter AND a Selectric xD .
Thank you for review - im opening for someself ocean of information about true quality keyboards. IBM old school k-boards - amazing.
I really like your reviews and insights, but I would like to know where you learned your typing style. It is not all that uncommon for a "floating" technique normally adopted by men with large hands on a traditional layout 104 key PC style keyboard. Meaning, for comfort the the wrists are straight (ergonomic), or at least straighter, which is not possible when using this style keyboard in traditional touch typing (fingers resting on keys) position for men with large hands (wrists are angled and bent). An ergo split keypad or Kinesis type tries to solve this issue by allowing you to seperate your hands more in relation to your arms extended outward from your shoulders. If you type a lot in your work, like a computer programmer (or coder), relatively speaking, much time is waisted in travel when the fingers are floating and not resting on the "home" keys, even though it is still touch typing without looking at the keys as you type. It may not seem like much until you actually watch a coder typing at full speed, especially if they are required by software requirements to make a comment on every line or major statement (instruction) when coding. Interesting to me is the fact that one can see the advantages of a Dvorak layout, but these diminish when the coder can customized (reconfigure) the layout to meet their style. Also, many times you are forced to use an uncustomized nonergonomic design and you can still touch type quickly to do small tasks (with a lot of discomfort), like at a software test station.
What do you think of the new model f kishsavers being produced now, I am going to get one but have to save some money first.
P.S You said that the Corsair k70 is cheap even though it sits at around 170USD?
So where do i have a chance to get my hands on the re-run Model F's?
EDIT: Found out: www.modelfkeyboards.com/ for everyone else that wants/needs one now
Thomas, what are the examples of "classic" non-clicky keyboards? Tactile or linear
Alps that aren't blue or white, space invaders, and Fujitsu leaf spring come to mind. All are sought after though so they can be pricey.
Now time for the ultimate beamspring keyboard review
Hope someone can donate me all the models I'm missing :p .
I miss the days when the keyboards had a single caste metal chassis. Every keyboard I have used since (even the tank like Black Widow I'm now typing on) feels flimsy.
I never knew how much I wanted an F107 until now. Also please don't diss the K70, it's all I have.
Do you happen to know about model A keyboards? I saw one for sale on ebay and it has an ibm badge near the lights and the label clearly says model A on the sticker but according to the internet it doesn't seem to exist and is instead the name of a typewriter
It was pretty cheap so I assume it might be a rubber dome but I'm almost tempted to get it considering it seems unknown
That sounds weird. There was never a "Model A" made by IBM.
Got to love the colourfull swearing.
I would like to own either the F107 or the F122 someday. The F122 has more keys and I prefer the look of it, but the F107 also has enough keys and is built like a Soviet tank by the sounds of it.
Soviet power supreme.
That 4704 kishsaver..... Couldn't find them anymore
I lubed up my model M with teflon grease for bicycles and it really reduced the ping and ironically increased binding on large keys when lubed too much. I like the mod.
the grease can damage the rubber mat and membranes under the springs, so it actually isn't very good for the board. there is a floss mod that does this but it doesn't damage the keyboard and is fully reversible.
@@plate4416 luckily, my grease is more than viscous enough not to touch the membrane. But I will check it anyway just to make sure.
LReBe7 I would just be careful because grease will flow down over time in a constantly moving part like, say, a spring that collapses many times.
Amazing. How does the Model F and Model M, compare to the best mechanical keyboards today from DAS, Corsair, Logitech, Gamdias, Thermaltake and other not so popular but great keyboard makers?
Thanks.
They don't compare, the model f and m are completely out of those keyboards league, you can buy new, modern model fs and ms today the modern model ms go for about 100dollars/euros, and the modern model fs cost around 400
Back in the days of data entry with nothing, but numbers by HAND, I loved the model F keyboard. It was like using a a very good 10 key calculator ( SHARP'S anyone?) I have never BEEN a touch typist ( sorry) but a great deal of my work revolved around entering numbers into a computer program. For the KIND of work that i did, the IBM MODEL F was unbeatable.
The "+" key served as an ENTER KEY and I have NO idea why the layout changed to have a SEPARATE "ENTER" key to the numeric pad layout?? Can SOME ONE give me a rational explanation as to why THIS was done? THANK YOU!
How... did you get so many of these rare keebs?
blus z ;)
I use one every day F122. I have an XT and AT another 122 and a 107 just in case i wear out my 122.
I think perhaps the ultimate keyboard would be one using Model F mechanisms and construction, the Model M layout (no Windows keys!) and a smart controller that can speak PC/XT, AT/PS2 and USB protocols. Just plug in the right cable for what you want to use it with, flick the protocol switch to the appropriate position and away you go.
Roxor128 it exists! (Project MF)
Really? Even the smart controller and swappable cables part?
Actually, I noticed an oversight in my original comment. I wrote PC/XT as if the two used the same protocol (and I think you might have said so in the video). Turns out they don't. While the data transmission part is the same, they use different ways to reset the keyboard. The PC has a dedicated reset line, while the XT has the system send a sequence on the clock and data lines.
excellent review
I just got my IBM Model F XT for $199NZD! cannot wait for it to arrive : D will make a nice replacement for my AEKII.
I can't believe how expensive Model F keyboards became. Just three years ago an F XT was $100 USD and I considered that expensive with AT being $380 USD (Ebay pricing). I got my F AT for $180 as it was untested. I took it apart and plugged in a loose cable and it's been my favorite keyboard since. I do want a USB converter so I have a way to get F12 as a layer key.
@@nerdyneedsalife8315 You are very lucky to get an F AT at that price range, let alone untested. Nowadays on Ebay for example they can go up to $250 or more and already used.
@@DrWiki-po1hk Oh I count my blessings with this keyboard ever since demand for them increased. I didn't think I would get endgame so early. I heard great things about beam springs but I know I will never justify that price and I don't have context for that anyway. I wanted to build a custom keyboard but I've held off because I know nothing will beat the Model F in key feel.
I prefer the sound of the Model M. It doesn't have that ping at the end. It has the chunky clack.
We have created the SUPER KEYBOARD.
There is an 83 key red and black Model F being sold on eBay for $100 right now.
This is a modded example, it's not original.
It seems you think larger is better when it comes to keyboard, but I just wonder how much weight and size contribute to typing experience
Size is related to amount of buttons which relates to convenience and weight generally relates to build quality. Neither directly influence typing feel.
How difficult is it to "learn" the XT layout? I keep drooling over the Model F. I am debating if I should upgrade my "meh" keyboard to either a Model M or Model F. I have used the Model M and loved it, however, I haven't tried the Model F. I am just not sure if the Model F is good enough to justify me getting pissed off constantly for typing the wrong keys (I program for a hobby and type way too much for work).
It seems like it would be worse than using my wife's German laptop. I despise using that thing when I have to type a complicated password. Although my wife has no problem using a US keyboard at work.
Nicholas Monter it's actually not THAT bad, the worst is getting used to the control placement, IMO. But some people even prefer that. Watch its review if you're interested :) .
When are you gonna review a keyboard with SMK Vintage Linears?
I don't own one yet!
I tried connecting this keyboard to my new PC and it doesn't work. Where can I buy a Saures coverter shown in the video?
Orihalcon sells them. They're called "Soarer's converters" and he does them for all IBM models. You can find him on Geekhack or Deskthority.
What keyboard is that at 2:27
You mentioned that the Model F AT can be used with PS2, is this true for all AT boards? Specifically, would it work with a Zenith Z-150 100-1860?
Waffle PC Yes, if a board is AT, it is natively compatible with PS/2. Note that many modern PCs don't use a TRUE but an emulated PS/2 port and in some combinations this can cause trouble. But usually it's fine.
Waffle PC in fact, if memory serves, my Z-150 worked ONLY over PS/2, it didn't work with my converter. Check its review for more info.
Chyrosran22 awesome, thanks man!
idea: what about razer switches? those 3?
Is it possible to upgrade any of these old boards?
xwhatsit. Also you can pick up a new *faithful* reproduction at modelfkeyboards (dot) com.
When Unicomp starts making Model Fs - IM IN
Unlikely - apart from the keycaps, YOU have just as much tooling as Unicomp have to make a Model F xD .
Just get one of ellipses reproductions.
God I have a corsair strafe and that comment about corsair hurt my heart 😭 I would agree with you if you said that about Razer but corsair's keybs are really durable imo
the keycaps are shit and the switches are floating, so imo there are better options. this above feeling is something called choice supportive bias, where the more you spend on something the more you try to justify it. Razer boards are honestly a tad more durable and have better switches (at least the huntsman). This comes from someone who has a Strafe, a Huntsman, an F122 and M122, and several other boards.
no matter what happens one day i will own one of these
''Manurefacturer'' Bravo dude, bravo.
What switch would you recommend for a gamer other then gateron cherry and kailh im looking for a better mx brown key feel but fail to find one thats actually tactile
There are IMO no MX-type tactile switches that are actually tactile. You might have to look outside of the MX box a bit.
Chyrosran22 oh i was thinking ALPs blue since mx blue was what i was originally used to
A good choice, but an expensive one, and not easy to get hold of in good condition. It might be worth first trying out a cheaper Alps, simplified Alps or Alps clone board first and then decide on if you want more of the same. With anything Alps the capital rule is to find one that's really clean or they'll feel like shit!
Chyrosran22 ill try to find one thanks for the advice and fast reply! 😊
everytime i watch this for the typeing demo iu have to chime in with my battleship
9:08 Armageddon is here!
De end is at hand.
More C&C quotes coming in the next review btw :p .
Excellent.
IBMgasm
What setup to record you have, Thomas?
Szauko the camera is a Canin T3i Rebel and the muc is an sE Electronics X1 with Cube4Nano voice box.
Hello, a question! I am the owner of two keyboards, Model 100 F50 IBM 4704, and I would like to know if someone has transformed it into USB with any controller? Thank you in advance. If someone wants one, could they help me transform mine, and I'll give them the extra one I have as a gift.
I am gettig brand new Ibm Model M 1992 for 310 usd do you think it is good deal.
That sounds very expensive Oo .
Chyrosran22 how much i should quote
"Holy testicle sish-kebab"
2:12 Nice
"CORSAIR MAKES THE BEST KEYBOARDS" get out RGB addictive teens.
F122!
I would *love* to try one of these out, but how on earth do I ever get my hands on one? I live in the sticks, USA, probably hundreds of kilometers away from anyone else who even knows that there's something out there better than their dell rubber dome abomination. And of course, I don't have thousands to spend on ebay.
I wish there were enough keyboard enthusiasts in my corner of nowhere to justify a meetup.
Yonder Bagel in the USA you have better chances if getting one than anyone else ;) .
Yonder Bagel if you're in wi I can help you out