Spyro Fan that's because his argument is sound. unlike a book reader (show watcher) he does not possess the gift of omniscience. He does not know that she's a main character in some fantasy series.
Spyro Fan It's not his argument that's bad it's the condescending manner in which he spoke to her. The utter lack of respect for her as a person that is the problem. He didn't even bother to ask if she had money or if she would put one of her dragons up for temporary collateral. While his argument was sound and logical it has been proven wrong, she's since taking over how many cities and is now quite wealthy. If he had lived she would have came back and killed him, so this was actually a really bad move underestimating how far she could go just because she had nothing but three dragons.
I absolutely love how Daenerys started giving this dramatic Main Character speech with brooding background music, and the merchant just shrugs it off like he was talking to a child. This show started so well.
He was talking to a child. Her entire life to this point was her brother trying to sell her off as a bride and being humped by Khal Drogo. She had no life experiences outside of being taken cared of by Illyro’s slaves.
Yup, it certainly. The plot got weirder and weirder as time went by, and funnily enough it was never even about the out of place and weird fantasy elements that look like they do not even belong to this world with how martin made it. A world with fantasy so hidden, sometimes you wonder why it's even there
probably. but it was an insane world. the gods were real. god of light and god of death, there were zombies for fucks sake. the merchant makes a lot of sense for thsi world, for that world. heh....
which to be fair was very unnecessary as she could've just said "bro I've got three fucking WMDs how am I not a good investment" but she went the spoiled angry girl route
@@madakdak first and foremost, he could just not start it by asking why Tyrion is imprisoned before sending despoilers. If he is as smart as it is thought of him, he will manage to prove his innocence. Tyrion alive, Baelish caught, war averted.
The season 8 is not an official season for me, I believe this shite ended wgwn they left for winter fell, I don't know how they'll fight the night king, how cersei will die and I know Jaime and brienne will probably end up together and Dany will always be the queen of the six kingdoms for me.
Nah. She was really built to fail by Martin. Many people seem to ignore how similar her mind and logic with Visery's was. He was the major influence while she was growing up. She might be kinder but she believes she has the right to a throne 'coz she descended from Aegon the Conqueror. Nevermind how Aegon did the conquering irrespective of any "rights" of any king back then. Arrogance she already has plenty no matter how desirable her body was. Season 8 was on point, they just rushed it.
@@rasalasblack bruh she is kinda similar in her righteoussness ig but she stayed in merreen for the ppl she cares for her subjects wayyy diff from viserys
The Flying Lion What? Yes he does. He's being extremely patronizing. He belittles her constantly and literally "talks down" to her. He's being about as rude as he can possibly be without breaching etiquette.
nvshd Yeah but he's not saying "You're a sad little girl" or "Bitch I ain't gonna give you no damn ships". He's realistic. As far as disrespecting her goes the Spice King is as polite as can be. He refuses her yeah but it doesn't go far as attacking her character and her worth. He just knows that it's not a good investment to make and his mind is all business. Like the Bank of Braavos in Season 4 when they initially refuse Stannis. They don't disrespect him and choose not to help out of disrespect but out of logic and fact.
The Flying Lion What about his tone though. It's a disrespectful tone masked by polished etiquette. Polite words arranged in an impolite way. There's a polite way to call Daenerys "Princess" and there's a rude way to do it. He did it the rude way, and enough times to make her bristle.
nvshd what about his tone? A teenage girl comes from half a world away demanding all his ships. How would you react? You d call her mad. I d say he was very polite. Dany is so unfit to rule anything. She can't even control a single city. She got lucky with her dragons. Nothing more
+nvshd He had no disrespectful tone and the sooner you understand that, the sooner you will stop having arguments with people IRL. You don't get to be offended if you demand something of someone with no guarantee of repaying them and they reject you.
The best hair, but not the best outfit. If I had to make a Daenerys doll like a barbie I would give her the turquoise dress. Somehow it is the most iconic 💞
@@u.v.s.5583 which probably would have if bran stark got wind of the deal and gave him a sweet deal wether from using his powers or Tyrion honoring a promise…maybe preferential treatment and increased trade in dorne, the iron islands and possibly the north depending on if he could convince sansa Money moves mountains, just a guess though
Who would win? *Daenerys Targaryen - Queen of the Andals, the Rhoynar, and the First Men - Protector of the Seven Kingdoms - Khaleesi of the Great Grass Sea - Breaker of Chains - Mother of Dragons - The Unburnt - Gorgeous Babe of Fire* VS *Spicy boy*
dany asking the spice king for all his ships, would be like a modern blonde rich girl of a dead ruler asking a billionaire tycoon for his cargo ships that he uses to transport precious raw materials all over the world...
+soulseeker There is nothing in the real world that this is even remotely like, as there is no empire which compares, including the British Commonwealth.
Blah b "Who wield more commercial power than this guy"... in relation to what? You're saying that it's like a rich blonde girl asking one of these hedgefunds for all their ships, so they can't ship cocoa, so she can go take over the largest empire the world currently has... how is that even remotely relevant to anything in the real world? We don't have an empire like that, we have zero empires that are run by dictators or kings (The British Monarchy has been a figurehead for a long time)... I mean, your example of people who have a lot of money is completely irrelevant. They could maybe... maybe fuck over a very small country. But how is a small country compared to an entire continent?
Blah b Sigh. This conversation is going no where, because you have absolutely no idea how the world works. I would guess, though I could be wrong, that you are American. Because Americans have this weird idea that their president has way more power than he has. Which also means they think Putin has way more power in Russia than he actually does. Which leads to stupid comments like your one. It also shows you have no idea how China is run. In fact, everything you said is completely wrong, except when you said "EU has a democracy", but even then you added the only serious power block, which shows you know nothing. I can't be bothered refuting all your wrong points. So let's just say, "Hey, we don't know each other, so who the fuck cares what we each think," and move on with our lives, yeah?
Nah, to be fair Daeny actually had something the spice merchant didn't, which is her claim to the Iron Throne. That trader would have a **much** harder time conquering the 7 kingdoms himself, simply because he doesn't have a claim
Such an interesting character George R.R. Martin came up with. Dany is the last of what was a powerful dynasty, third born, she never thought she'd have a chance/worth to sit on the Iron Throne. She is now forced to start from scratch. She has a lot of learning to do. Like many of us as we as we set forth to reach our goals. Oh and can you see the flames that spout when she utters her house's words, 'Fire and Blood.' A true dragon.
Dany: "Look, I am a main character, it will work out." Spice King: "What are you talking about?" Dany: "I am breaking the fourth wall to speed things up. People want to see me invade. Can I have your ships?" Spice King: "Targaryens truly are insane."
The problem is that those characters died directly as the consequence of their bad decisions. Daenerys made what, hundreds of them so far? And whenever shit goes down somehow she survives either by pure luck or plot shield. The series stopped being believable when I realized she'll basically never die regardless of her bad choices.
Dany is one of my favourite characters. Yes, in this scene she is irritating and childish, but she's also like 16. How competent a politician would you have been at that age? I like her because of her growth throughout the series. Even in 2016 she has a lot to learn but her growth is rapid as is her passion. with the help of Tyrian I think she could become a wise ruler.
Rob was train how to fight and how to rule since he was young, he grew up in the castle, met with many lord and lady, he has his father to guild him while Daenerys doesn't has any of them, she has to run away from pace to place, she has to live in the street like a beggar for many year, Viserys has to sold their mother's crown so he and Daenerys will have something to eat, she hasn't any education that Rob or Sansa has, and she only has Viserys who is half mad to guild her.
Robb was also a pretty terrible king. he was a good strategist in the same way that Dany is a good conqueror. but at least Dany listens to her counsel a little bit.
Notice the look the merchant gets on his face right as Daenerys mentions the common people rising up to support her when she returns? That is the moment the deal went down the toilet. While I think this guy is a bit arrogant towards her, you have to look at things from his position. She comes to him asking him for his ships to bring her to Westeros, but has no way to cement her claim other than her childlike belief in the people flocking to her like in a fairytale. Its no wonder he said no, he has no guarantee of getting anything back other than her word and in doing so would risk his livelihood. She may be the Mother of Dragons, but this scene was stupid on her part.
In retrospective this is actually a foreshadowing of what happened to Daenerys in Season 8. The entitlement thinking he would just give her his ships even though all logical thinking would advise against it and he didn't owe her anything. She thought she was somehow special and above customs and logic. After all her dragoneggs hatched. From that day on she saw herself as someone who was destined for greatnes. Not a mere woman but some kind of goddess. And a goddess of course was entitled to anything she wanted and had the right to do anything imaginable to fulfil her mission even if it meant killing countless people or burning an entire city to the ground. We didn't see it then but her realising she can't be burned and her dragons hatching was the beginning of her madness. I just wish season 8 would've shown us more of it and make us understand it instead of making her mad in a matter of two seconds and just squeezing it into two episodes to wrap the story up.
" In retrospective this is actually a foreshadowing of what happened to Daenerys in Season 8. The entitlement thinking he would just give her his ships even though all logical thinking would advise against it and he didn't owe her anything. She thought she was somehow special..." I don't know, if a woman couldn't be touched by fire and had walked through fire, I'd start to think she was either a goddess or at the least, the servant of a goddess. (Or that mind-freak guy.) In which case, it would probably be wise to attend to her words. GoT is just a fanciful story but as long as we're playing in this milieu, She apparently can't be burned. I'd say that does make her kind of special. Within this story. You can't use parts of the story to prove a point but ignore the parts that are inconvenient to your point. "She was a spoiled brat!" No, she was a fire-proof spoiled brat. With dragons. "And a goddess of course was entitled to anything she wanted and had the right to do anything imaginable to fulfil her mission even if it meant killing countless people or burning an entire city to the ground." See, THAT"S the problem a lot of people have with the ending. She did NOT need to burn an entire city to the ground to fulfill her mission. IF the story had been written such that the entire city was determined to resist her to the death, then her burning the city to the ground would have been the sort of response an entitled goddess might have. BUT, the common people-the majority of the city-could care less which despot sits on some uncomfortable chair. They're all despots. They want to be left alone to live their lives. They weren't going to fight to the death for Cersei. Burning the city doesn't achieve her goal.
@@andersonsmith979 I think you missed rhe point of what I was saying. Of course she didn't need to burn the city. But if she didn't need to, rhen why did she do it? Because she had some psychological issues. To name it: Daenerys had a god-complex. Ever since she stepped out of that fire she saw herself as something beyond mere humans. She may not have used the word but in her mind she was like a goddess. And a Goddess would of course have no problems, punishing a whole city for the sins of one Queen (e.g. the Story of Queen Cassiopeia). And this scene shows the beginning of this god-complex. Yeah of course she is special - she's fireproof and the mother of dragons - but because of this she's loosing her grip on reality. This man doesn't know that she's special. He wasn't there. He has nothing but her word that she's speaking the truth. He doesn't know her and doesn't ow her loyalty. But she somehow thinks that he does owe her loyalty just because she survived the flames. Don't get me wrong, I would probably think like her if the same happened to me but that doesn't change the fact that it is a sign of the madness that eventually drove her to burn King's landing. The biggest mistake of season 8 was to not properly explain that and to just make it seem as if she went mad in the matter of seconds, when actually that madness had been there since season 1.
Exactly my thoughts, it was always there, subtle and just foreshadowing but it was (granted, last season was rushed and all over the place, but the signs were definitely there)
Bro she is always been evil but in the show we see her as a victim. She wants to break a wheel but is like THE IRON THRONE IS MINE BY RIGHT every single time like you want to break a wheel by doing exactly what the wheel does? D&d got her character right tbh bc in the books shes even way more like this and no one sees it tbh when you heard about the books the ending of game of thrones seems more logical and tyrion is the only one who isnt written the same bruh is straight up kind of evil and dumb
@@shimanopetermann9068 Except there were already plenty of scenes between this moment and Season 8 that showed red flags in Daenerys’ character. Season 2: Instead of arresting or even executing Doreah and Xaro (who betrayed her), she locks them up in a crypt so they can die in the dark while probably cannibalizing each other. This was exceptionally cruel when you think about it. Season 3: Her first instance of burning a city to the ground. King’s Landing was not the first - she roasted Astapor too, and left it a broken city-state. Season 4: Crucifying 100+ masters without checking if each of them were actually guilty (some of them were revealed to be abolitionists of slavery). When she gets called out for this by Hizdahr Zo Loraq, she maintains that her decision was absolutely correct and not up for debate. Season 5: She feeds a few masters to her dragons without a trial because she was desperate to find out who was funding the Sons of the Harpies. This was despite her earlier insistence that she was a ‘queen, not a butcher.’ Later in the season, she also threatens to burn Meereen to the ground if she found the reasons to be justifiable. Season 6: She threatens to burn down Meereen, Astapor, and Yunkai *again* when they rose against her. When she burned all of the Khals and took charge of their entire culture *just because she could*, that too was already a foreshadowing of what she was capable of doing in King’s Landing. Season 7: The moment Tyrion’s plan to lay siege to King’s Landing fails, she furiously suggests that they just burn down the Red Keep with her dragons instead. Upon attacking the Lannister army in the Gold’s Road, she also executed the Tarlys without trial against her advisors’ wishes. …and then there were those moments in Season 1 where her entitlement and vengefulness were already in full display, like the lustful look in her eyes when Drogo threatened to rape and pillage his way across Westeros to get her the Iron Throne or how she literally burned Miri Maz Duur for betraying her. Dany’s brutality was always evident, we just excused it until the moment she did something truly fucked up, i.e. genocide.
Watching the show you're rooting for Dany at this point (or they want you to be) and you're on her side. *BUT* If you watch this scene a bit disconnected from the events only we know, the Spice Merchant is right in every regard and polite to a fault. Dany also has some major crazy eyes going on and throws a threat filled tantrum when she doesn't get what she wants and her passion suddenly sounds a lot more like _madness._
She had been enjoying burning people and deluding herself that the 7 kingdoms were hers by right as well as that the people there loved her. She was a time bomb waiting to explode.
When I first watched this scene I was on Dany’s side, but now that I rewatch it I’m completely on that Spice King’s side and realize that Dany was acting like a bit of a spoiled brat that was expecting people to just hand things to her without thinking in logical terms
I think that guy was pretty reasonable. Daenerys didn't have an army and she didn't know anything about the "allies" she thought she had. Giving her ships is like giving money to some guy on the Internet who says that they are a Nigerian (sorry, Targaryen) prince who have millions of dollars that they want to give to a foreigner.
He made Dany sound and act like her brother Viserys which was really embarrassing on her part. He made a valid and legitimate argument. Birth rights, dreams, passion, etc, they don’t really matter, even in a feudal system unless you can prove your worth the investment. At this point, she wasn’t. Plus even in hindsight, after she matured and amassed her army and took the iron throne, she still proved to be a bad investment.
Everyone is a Guru when things already happened. You can't expect that to happened when in this moment she did not have an army, allies or money. Just a delirant beggar queen.
Now daenarys learn what her brother had to go through for years just so he and she had food and shelter. Daenarys had no idea about her family only from what Viserys told her which wasn't ver reliable as he was 9 when he left and she herself has never been in Kingslanding she was born in Dragonstone. I think Daenarys flaw mostly is her inexperience and lack of knowledge of what is going on. She isn;t very aware of the houses of the 7 kingdoms and if she was she would have allied with them all a long time ago. Even if she went to Dorn they would definately help her
@@NmaeUnavailablesigh Again Viserys was 9 when he left. And the 7 kingdoms changed a lot from when he was there. When he was there,Robert was still a new king and no one knew how long he would last.
@@NmaeUnavailablesigh Plus, Viserys was clearly under A LOT OF MENTAL STRAIN & FRUSTRATION, having to be a "beggar King" for all those years 💔 He just took out those on poor Danys 💔 As much as I HATED his abuse, my hearteu bled for the poor guy! His trauma started young & only deepened with time 😔
She was so naive back then and then she learned from experience overtime. In this particular scene, instead of saying “my dreams come true” which is the most absurd thing you can say when you are begging for ships, she could have said “my ancestor, Aegon the Conquerer, unleashed his three dragons onto the seven kingdoms until the kings of those kingdoms either bent the knee or burned in fire. I too have the same power. Power so great that everyone will have only choice but to bend their knee.” Something along the line. That’s probably the best thing she could have said at that point. The merchant may or may not have given her the ships but that’s the best that could have been said.
The trader is 100% right. "She's so awesome / OMG she totally deserves it / he dissed her!" = "she's gorgeous." Nothing more. She IS gorgeous. But if an old hag were saying it to the trader everyone in these comments would be laughing at her. And rightly so.
I love Dany but sometimes she was kind of annoying, particularly in the earlier seasons. She demanded things expecting her Targaryen name would have everyone falling at her feet. I mean I understand a lot was taken from her family and she went through traumatic things, but she demanded things like she was a god. I mean other than demanding to lead the Dothraki and burning the Khals like a boss, that was badass. And taking Astapor was a boss move. But it kind of annoyed me when she demanded that Jon bend the knee. Like um girl he was named king of the North and your father burnt his family alive, I don’t think he’s gonna bend the knee the very first time he meets you, you were a little bold with that one. I love her and she’s one of my favorite characters, but there were a couple instances like this that she thought everyone should just fall to their knees because she had the Targaryen name. Buttttt she was also still learning the works of diplomacy so this was a well learnt lesson.
And then flexing her dragon power when they refuse to bend the knee "dId YoU SeE ThRee DraGonS?🥴" man I started hating on her from season 4 and on, but then again there were some parts I liked a lot about her but mostly hated how entitled she was
She keeps claiming the throne as her birth right when it's not, because the house Baratheon defeated the Targaryens fair and square, it's called right of conquer.
and if people are generally accepting. Conquered lands also have the people behind them in some cases. In this case the people were generally tired of the Mad King's crap so the people were optimistic of having a new dynasty. In the era of Aegon's Conquest, the people I'm sure were tired of fighting each other when it was 7 kingdoms and were probably relieved to have a unified country so they weren't sending their kids off to get killed.
This is what I missed in the last seasons. This beautiful conversations and the wittiness in them. Only chapter 5 of all season 8 was at the level of this at the end of the series.
Season 8 spice trader: My lady, I have a stack of gold reserved for charitable actions, unfortunately it is as short as the cock of an unsullied from Astapor!
Although Daenerys is my favorite character in the show, you can clearly see differences between her and Daenerys book version. In the books Daenerys doesn't expect people to give her anything and most importantly she doesn't yell at them for no reason
- I can give you a dragon for a sufficiently large fleet. - I give you 10 ships, even 20. - How many do you have? - 80-something and a pleasure yacht. - And how many ships are there in the whole region? - A lot, many thousands. - Do you know how many living dragons are there in the world? Only three. Don't you think one dragon is worth something like one third of the whole fleet of the region? Like several thousand ships? - AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA you are not reasonable my fair lady. - Fine with me, I'll find my ships elsewhere.
Story aside, she truly does sound like every entitled, self-righteous, identitarian narcissist in the Wokesphere: "I can be anything I say I am!," "I will liberate the world!," "Gimme it, it's mine!," "If you don't give me what I want, and call me by my special names, I'll destroy everything!," "They don't get to choose!" A character for our time. A Song of Grievance and Revenge.
She wasnt kidding. She got her throne; with fire and blood as she always promised. What a great character and the hints were always there but us Dany fans didnt want to believe it. But it was always there. Our Mad Queen
Lion of the Blue Vale they weren’t innocent though, they were helping to fund the Sons of The Harpy. Why do you think she brought them there in the first place? Lol
Spraying hints doesn’t equate character development. People don’t hate that dany turned evil, they hate that the show made her evil overnight without proper build up.
Nothing encompasses Dany’s turn on S8 more than this scene. She’s ALWAYS been entitled, arrogant and power hungry. She’s always used her dragons to intimidate and threatened this who didn’t submit to her. That she was a liberator doesn’t change this. She had good intentions and wished to rule peacefully but her ruthlessness and violent impulses can’t be denied. In here she claims the people will rally behind her and give her a swift victory. None of that happened. What she’s been dreaming of was utterly crushed. NO ONE supported her in Westeros and she lost everyone she loved as well. She doesn’t trust her advisors and her claim turned out to be BS as well. How can you blame her going full Targaryen? She decided to rule by fear because at that point it didn’t matter anymore. She’s been through too much and everything she dreamt of got completely crushed. She won the Throne but the victory was hollow, therefore she turns into a true Targaryen. She tried to rule peacefully but it clearly didn’t work out.
Don't forget that Ellaria Sand also supports her. Hopefully all that bad poosi will completely destroy her reputation. Tyrion loved Myrcella. If he finds out Ellaria murdered her, there'll be hell to pay.
I mean, you can't blame the guy. Imagine that you run a business and some lady approaches you: - Give me your money! - Why? - Because I was born in the fires of the Holy Spirit! - Yeah... Can you go away? - I will pay you back 3 times! - Lady, can you fuck off or should I call the Police?
As danerys demand respect by saying im not your little princess, he gave her the respect by addressing her as my lady. Shes not a queen yet but she is a princess. Nice detail.
The most important question from a shrewd businessman: do you have an army? Do you have powerful allies? When were you last there? Conclusion: nobody will take all the risks for you no matter how promising you are...
- Sir, my business plan is based on serious foundations! I have like a couple of dozen Dothraki, you are my ally and in Westeros everybody is sewing dragon banners!
The lower classes would rather follow the brotherhood without banners, or High sparrow before, dany, the people wont do shit for her, with her rep. in Westeros at best she could buy some mercenaries there, best case scenario.
+Final Sebas tge people may love her now though it's not like the lannisters are loved and when she does come to westores she'll see that wow this place has seen better days
keelah Se'lai I just hope she doesnt wage war against Jon, that would be stupid, I think we might have a stand of the north to free itself from the Iron Throne´s King chains, if daenerys comes to claim the Iron Throne, I doubt Jon would kneel to her without good conditions too.
Well Jon army is weakened after fighting the boltons the north overall is weakened most of the men died fighting for Robb stark also the free folk army Is shattered especially now if denearys does cross and tried to claim the north it's in Jon best interest to kneel
How does she know that they will when she havent met any of them or lived in Westeros! Stupid woman! if she didnt have Tyrion, she wouldnt stand any chance!
Something I love about this scene is that it avoids a mistake I see a _lot_ in fiction and absolutely despise: Equating "trusting someone's intentions/honesty/integrity/loyalty" with "trusting someone's abilities/competence/judgement/knowledge". I see this in so many things, where someone insists that if so-and-so _really_ trusts so-and-so then they have to have total faith in their judgement or abilities, and if they don't then they don't really trust them and they're a bad friend/relative/coworker/whatever. _And the plot vindicates them._ I see this in so much stuff, like Finding Nemo, RWBY, Harry Potter, Parisa, etc. This scene not only avoids that, it actively educates us that there are different kinds of trust and having one does not guarantee having another.
He's totally, utterly, COMPLETELY right! It's so evident is silly, you cannot question his logic. Even though what she said at the end was beautiful it doesn't change the facts. This Merchant is amazing at arguments and challenging statements.
She's saying "My dreams come true" and all he's trying to tell her is make them come true first and then we can talk, until then she's just a little princess; who hasnt been a real princess since she had to be expedited out as a baby, after her father was murdered. Calling herself the mother of dragons made her sound like a religious cult leader more than an actual general whose capable of paying the merchant triple. Note to the wise, never sell your dream more than selling your plan.
I don't know why people hate what they did to her character, they literally told us in Season 2 exactly what she would do. "I will take what is mine, with fire and blood I will take it"
@@ringwe I think she finally realized that she had to take the city by force. They were never going to accept her as the rightful ruler the only way she thought to rule was by fear. And she didn't realize that she actually hated her homeland. Never saw them as her allies.
What no one brings up: Cersei burned the Sept of Baelor, killing thousands and thousands, and then opened the gates and tens of thousands flocked in like she was their bestest friend, and it's these people who get burned. Just does not make sense: why would anyone want to be near a mad Queen who burns her own people in their own church while another, possible mad, Queen approaches with dragons capable of burning cities? Anyone who lived near King's Landing had fled into the city in the first two seasons, and anyone with a brain knew where the dragons would gather: that iron chair.... I mean: how many people are fleeing INTO Ukraine at the moment? And there is just one mad Queen trying to burn it all. So why would anyone in their right mind try to hug close to the object of mad adoration of TWO?
A shame Stannis and dany never met, they would have a good ol´ discussion, on why: "Me ruling is better than you", thing, before trying to morder each other lol.
He is sooooooo much better. The daughter burning thing doesn't happen. Stannis is off by winterfell and Shireen is in Castle Black. Stannis refuses to burn people for no reason unlike the show. And his campaign in the north is far more effective and badass.
She definitely showed signs of being a bit of a mad queen early on with talks of 'taking what's "hers"' and talks of fire and blood just because they don't support her
@Silver Lady I don't know if comprehension skills can be learned at this point in your life, but that doesn't constitute "the people" rising. The lords did... cause they had no other choice. Dorne hated the Lanisters and couldn't defeat them alone. The North hated the Lanisters and couldn't defeat them alone. Olena of Highgarden hated the Lanisters after they killed her family, so she jumped ship. Finally, Euron became king of the Iron Island and his nephew and niece joined Daenerys cause they couldn't defeat Euron themselves. That doesn't mean "the people". It really isn't that hard for someone with a comprehension level of a 6 year old.
I mean people did support her when she came to westeros the tyrells, iron islands (some of them),and dorne problem was dany was such a dumbass she lost all her allies
In the books, that's Dany's most grievious flaw. She says her brother was wrong and didn't know much of anything, yet she is unable to separate what she has been taught because it would mean she might not take back what is hers. If we ever get a new book, it would be interesting to see if she is able to rectify this and change.
@@samphillips8188 In the books Danny decides to rule Meereen, which is hers by conquest. She ends up sick and half roasted eating a half baked horse together with her dragon, when a bunch of Dothraki appear around her while her people in Meereen try to sort out what to do while their Queen has been carried away by a wild dragon. I sort of do not see the connection with what you are trying to say. What does she do wrong in the books?
Ya know, I never quite understood why the Targaryens were always claiming to be the "rightful heirs" to the Iron Throne. ESPECIALLY after she stood by and watched her brother get killed, thus clearing the way for her to become Queen. Last time I checked Royal history, the throne belonged to those who had the power to keep it. Her father got offed, throne changes hands....happens all the time!
I guess because Aegon conquered the kingdoms for his blood line? But you're right, their "divine" right means little to opposing forces. Plus Targaryens are ass at ruling. They can seize power but can handle it.
There's a lot of talk about how she is too 'idealistic' and that there isn't enough logic in how she communicates her case. However, in the real world, great artists and outliers don't get what they want by putting forth a logical business claim all the time. They are able to make their dreams into reality with a different kind of persuasive power. At this point, she's not dumb, she's just inexperienced when it comes to persuading this particular investor. To me, she knows that she needs to be communicate with confidence even though the odds are not in her favour. If you don't ooze confidence and power from every pore then how do you expect others to take you seriously, especially as a women, in that world!? Just because she comes off like this in the presence of other powerful people doesn't mean that she doesn't have a realistic view of herself when she goes to bed at night. She knows that she must take big risks for big rewards. She's smart because she's playing off of her best strengths and she's not a defeatist.
in real life, this is a terrible sales pitch. The spice man reasonably raise some barriers, which Daenerys is not able to really overcome. She speaks so long of how good her "product" completing ignoring the paint point of the buyer (the spice man). Even worst, she gets hard boiled threating the buyer for not seeing the obvious(?) advantages of the trade. At that point the sales is doomed, over,kaputt. You will never manage to sell anything when you reach this point. Luckily for Daenerys she has a very young pussy and 3 fucking big dragons (not yet big here, still quite valuable). Speaking of which, she learns from her mistakes during the trade of the unsullied. She understands the pain point of the buyer and she gets what she wants (again, having a dragon that spits fire facilitate the deal)
And she improves later on..like when in astapor, she pretends like she doesn't understand valyrian so she could have an upper hand etc. She was never dumb, just untrained.
I feel like in scenes like this you get a glimps of what Danaerys will do later on. In S6 and S7 I thought a lot of times tgat she was capable of terrible things for her wishes, and getting more and more extreme and mercyless. I know everyone was shocked by the ending, but I actually thought it quite fitting to her development.
A lot of people still don't understand that George r.r. Martin hates figures of authority. They're too used to Marvel soft approach to the consequences of a chaotic world full of despair and violence. A violent world changes people.
Imagine if he was still alive at the end of season 6, and she went and asked him for ships again. By that point, she had 3 large dragons, 8,000 Unsullied, 2,000 Second Sons, ~50,000 Dothraki (maybe more), and alliances with Dorne, Highgarden, and a portion of the Iron Born fleet. I wonder how good of an investment he'd decide she was then?
I can not argue with this mearchant. His logic is unchallengeable.
like the iron bank
Pe Ha You cannot hate the spice merchant. He is just too logical.
Pe Ha and he didn’t even bring up her Crazy ass father
He was right though. She has no allies in Westeros. Should have never crossed the narrow sea.
After the series finale, he's an absolute hero for this.
It's difficult to poke any holes in his argument to be honest
Spyro Fan that's because his argument is sound. unlike a book reader (show watcher) he does not possess the gift of omniscience. He does not know that she's a main character in some fantasy series.
If this were the discworld he would have worked it out ten seconds after meeting her.
Spyro Fan Indeed, he was also the most entertaining character in that season .
A shame he had no name and had to die so fast.
Maudit Salopards tbh though he was very good at business I wasn't too bothered about him getting killed. he was kindaf a dick
Spyro Fan It's not his argument that's bad it's the condescending manner in which he spoke to her. The utter lack of respect for her as a person that is the problem. He didn't even bother to ask if she had money or if she would put one of her dragons up for temporary collateral. While his argument was sound and logical it has been proven wrong, she's since taking over how many cities and is now quite wealthy. If he had lived she would have came back and killed him, so this was actually a really bad move underestimating how far she could go just because she had nothing but three dragons.
"with fire and blood I'll take it"
"yes my lady, but not with my ships"
savage 🤣🤣
Fire and blood is what she dod that's for sure.
Thank you
What an audacity that she went on calling herself "The Unburned" after that.
Dead 😂
he must be related to Corlys.. ROFL
Games of Thrones meets Shark Tank
Yes
A Song of Sharks and Fire
Wouldn’t dragons den be more appropriate?
Benjamin Byrnison yes it would be
XD
I absolutely love how Daenerys started giving this dramatic Main Character speech with brooding background music, and the merchant just shrugs it off like he was talking to a child. This show started so well.
He was talking to a child. Her entire life to this point was her brother trying to sell her off as a bride and being humped by Khal Drogo. She had no life experiences outside of being taken cared of by Illyro’s slaves.
Yup, it certainly. The plot got weirder and weirder as time went by, and funnily enough it was never even about the out of place and weird fantasy elements that look like they do not even belong to this world with how martin made it. A world with fantasy so hidden, sometimes you wonder why it's even there
probably. but it was an insane world. the gods were real. god of light and god of death, there were zombies for fucks sake. the merchant makes a lot of sense for thsi world, for that world. heh....
which to be fair was very unnecessary as she could've just said "bro I've got three fucking WMDs how am I not a good investment" but she went the spoiled angry girl route
@@victorc8855 reusable wmds . Look what aegon did with only 1 I have 3.
Probably the smartest and most logical character in the series next to Ollena and Tywin.
@Berta Berta obviously the trader
Tywin is overrated af
@@warmike tell me how is tywin overrated ? He win the war without even win a fight, I call that genius.
@@madakdak first and foremost, he could just not start it by asking why Tyrion is imprisoned before sending despoilers. If he is as smart as it is thought of him, he will manage to prove his innocence. Tyrion alive, Baelish caught, war averted.
@@warmike it's joffrey who start the war not tywin.
I remember the days when characters speak with logic and not cock jokes.
My god, Yes! I got so burnt out on this series from that alone.
The season 8 is not an official season for me, I believe this shite ended wgwn they left for winter fell, I don't know how they'll fight the night king, how cersei will die and I know Jaime and brienne will probably end up together and Dany will always be the queen of the six kingdoms for me.
Pepperidge Farms remembers
did someone say cock?
''Maybe it's really all about cocks in the end.''
This merchant taught her ALOT. After this encounter, she was able to argue against the second sons like a BOSS.
she also had more bargaining chips then.
@@corneliali7747 yeah she learnt she could not win battles based on hope but legitimate forces
Nah. She was really built to fail by Martin. Many people seem to ignore how similar her mind and logic with Visery's was. He was the major influence while she was growing up. She might be kinder but she believes she has the right to a throne 'coz she descended from Aegon the Conqueror. Nevermind how Aegon did the conquering irrespective of any "rights" of any king back then. Arrogance she already has plenty no matter how desirable her body was. Season 8 was on point, they just rushed it.
@@rasalasblack bruh she is kinda similar in her righteoussness ig but she stayed in merreen for the ppl she cares for her subjects wayyy diff from viserys
@@arrakistoxic1765 but she left the people of Meereen. She created a power vacuum that the Masters will fill again
As it turns out, she was a really bad investment.
hey, she actually did TAKE the iron throne after all, so it wasn't a bad investment ...well not exactly but you get the idea
recorded history, led the biggest human army ever assembled, mastered THREE dragons, and for a brief time ruled the 7 kingdoms
@@matthewwreott4858 got stabbed by her uncle, all her plans collapsed, wound up wasting time, lives, resources, and two of the three dragons.
@@BOLANAREDE321 do not dare ever edit that comment, you said '' UNCLE '' mate, you are clueless, and hate Dany' iconic standing
@@BOLANAREDE321 i think you will be SHOOKETH when it is revealed that Bran warged her dragon in 8x5 ........ and then Kinvara revives her
I love the fact that though he's refusing her he doesn't disrespect Daenerys at all.
The Flying Lion What? Yes he does. He's being extremely patronizing. He belittles her constantly and literally "talks down" to her. He's being about as rude as he can possibly be without breaching etiquette.
nvshd Yeah but he's not saying "You're a sad little girl" or "Bitch I ain't gonna give you no damn ships". He's realistic. As far as disrespecting her goes the Spice King is as polite as can be. He refuses her yeah but it doesn't go far as attacking her character and her worth. He just knows that it's not a good investment to make and his mind is all business. Like the Bank of Braavos in Season 4 when they initially refuse Stannis. They don't disrespect him and choose not to help out of disrespect but out of logic and fact.
The Flying Lion What about his tone though. It's a disrespectful tone masked by polished etiquette. Polite words arranged in an impolite way. There's a polite way to call Daenerys "Princess" and there's a rude way to do it. He did it the rude way, and enough times to make her bristle.
nvshd what about his tone? A teenage girl comes from half a world away demanding all his ships. How would you react? You d call her mad. I d say he was very polite. Dany is so unfit to rule anything. She can't even control a single city. She got lucky with her dragons. Nothing more
+nvshd He had no disrespectful tone and the sooner you understand that, the sooner you will stop having arguments with people IRL.
You don't get to be offended if you demand something of someone with no guarantee of repaying them and they reject you.
The spice guy got a point
Several, to be exact 💣💥
I also trade spices 😉
@@matthiaspizzini8010 Selling weed downtown in front of the 7-11 does not qualify as "selling spices"..
@@jefffromjersey52 bruh 😂😂😂😂😂
@@jefffromjersey52 that's exactly what the judge said to me 😓
Danny - I will take what is mine
Him - yes my lady but not with my ships
Both parties fulfilled their own words.
It was a great comeback
yes.. that is what they said
Best closing statement ever 😂
😂
Danaerys’ logic is like me asking Bezos to lend me all his money so that I can put it into GameStop, and then repay him with some of the profits lol
LOL and when Bezos would ask how you’re so sure you can time the market right you say “My Dreams Come True!!”
@@yampipampi No no no, you say "LMAO stonks only go up" or " GME to the moon" etc.
It's funny because they both own money and slaves
@@yampipampi i had a dream that i'd wet my pants...and when i woke up I HAD WET IT!!! thus u see im no ordinary person 😤✊ muh dReAms cUm tRuE
@@arrakistoxic1765 🤣🤣🤣
And she took it with fire and blood lol
Geraldo Nascimento took*
Geraldo Nascimento took*
took*
took*
took*
The best outfit Daenerys wore the entire series
To be fair, there was one she didn't wear that I quite liked.
The best hair, but not the best outfit. If I had to make a Daenerys doll like a barbie I would give her the turquoise dress. Somehow it is the most iconic 💞
@@Kristalya I didn’t like her hair in season 2. I liked her hair after season 2 and beyond. I also thought her best looks were in season 7
its not just her outfit, she was younger then (the actress) so she looked better
No her birthday suit was.
Spice king got spicy arguments to make. The only time in the series you see Daeny burn.
Hot and spicy merchant!
Underrated comment
Top
My man burnt 'The Unburnt'
Had the Warlock not killed him, I could've seen Dany making this guy one of her most valuable advisors and somewhat of a mentor.
Only if he agrees to free his slaves...
@@u.v.s.5583 this^
@@u.v.s.5583 which probably would have if bran stark got wind of the deal and gave him a sweet deal wether from using his powers or Tyrion honoring a promise…maybe preferential treatment and increased trade in dorne, the iron islands and possibly the north depending on if he could convince sansa
Money moves mountains, just a guess though
In the books Dany is incredibly bad at choosing good advisors, and it’s the cause of like 75% of her problems throughout the series lol
@@dihexa7256 Sounds like Trump. Half the people he hired had a back-knife ready 😜
Who would win?
*Daenerys Targaryen - Queen of the Andals, the Rhoynar, and the First Men - Protector of the Seven Kingdoms - Khaleesi of the Great Grass Sea - Breaker of Chains - Mother of Dragons - The Unburnt - Gorgeous Babe of Fire*
VS
*Spicy boy*
Spicy boy
There is an old spice joke here somewhere, I can’t find it tho
Spicy boy won
@@Dlavelle100 something to do with fiery hot maybe
- I AM THE MOTHER OF DRAGONS!
- And me, my lady, am a humble father of dragon peppers.
dany asking the spice king for all his ships, would be like a modern blonde rich girl of a dead ruler asking a billionaire tycoon for his cargo ships that he uses to transport precious raw materials all over the world...
+soulseeker There is nothing in the real world that this is even remotely like, as there is no empire which compares, including the British Commonwealth.
Blah b "Who wield more commercial power than this guy"... in relation to what? You're saying that it's like a rich blonde girl asking one of these hedgefunds for all their ships, so they can't ship cocoa, so she can go take over the largest empire the world currently has... how is that even remotely relevant to anything in the real world? We don't have an empire like that, we have zero empires that are run by dictators or kings (The British Monarchy has been a figurehead for a long time)... I mean, your example of people who have a lot of money is completely irrelevant.
They could maybe... maybe fuck over a very small country. But how is a small country compared to an entire continent?
Blah b Sigh. This conversation is going no where, because you have absolutely no idea how the world works. I would guess, though I could be wrong, that you are American. Because Americans have this weird idea that their president has way more power than he has. Which also means they think Putin has way more power in Russia than he actually does. Which leads to stupid comments like your one.
It also shows you have no idea how China is run. In fact, everything you said is completely wrong, except when you said "EU has a democracy", but even then you added the only serious power block, which shows you know nothing.
I can't be bothered refuting all your wrong points. So let's just say, "Hey, we don't know each other, so who the fuck cares what we each think," and move on with our lives, yeah?
Nah, to be fair Daeny actually had something the spice merchant didn't, which is her claim to the Iron Throne. That trader would have a **much** harder time conquering the 7 kingdoms himself, simply because he doesn't have a claim
@@cheydinal5401 why you think he wanted to conquer the 7 kingdoms?
The guy who plays the spice merchant is amazing. His acting here is phenomenal
Who said he was acting?
@@HooKsONyouhe started a real spice trade to better understand his character. Gotta admire the committment.
Such an interesting character George R.R. Martin came up with. Dany is the last of what was a powerful dynasty, third born, she never thought she'd have a chance/worth to sit on the Iron Throne. She is now forced to start from scratch. She has a lot of learning to do. Like many of us as we as we set forth to reach our goals. Oh and can you see the flames that spout when she utters her house's words, 'Fire and Blood.' A true dragon.
NiNjaAttack35266 May the dragons be extinguished. The Targaryens are not fit to rule anything.
Mr33500 you do realize Dany is one of the three dragon heads. There are two other characters who are half Targaryen. So Dracarys on your comment
NiNjaAttack35266 And pray tell who are the other two characters that are half Targaryen. The Targaryens are a family of inbred mad men.
Mr33500 Lord Tyrion Lannister and Jon Snow
NiNjaAttack35266 It might be possible that Jon is the son of that idiot Rhaegar but Tyrion Lannister is no Targaryen.
In his own way the Merchant taught Dany a very valuable lesson.
Dany: "Look, I am a main character, it will work out."
Spice King: "What are you talking about?"
Dany: "I am breaking the fourth wall to speed things up. People want to see me invade. Can I have your ships?"
Spice King: "Targaryens truly are insane."
In Game of Thrones? How many main characters have died so far?
Clearly not enough and, since Daenerys is still breathing, clearly not the right ones.
The problem is that those characters died directly as the consequence of their bad decisions. Daenerys made what, hundreds of them so far? And whenever shit goes down somehow she survives either by pure luck or plot shield. The series stopped being believable when I realized she'll basically never die regardless of her bad choices.
No actually most of what she does makes sense. If you could see past your irrational hatred of Daenerys that you have for some reason, you'd see that.
+Cynic You realize that Daenerys is going to die by the end of the series, right?
02:16- "This bitch is crazy, all I can do is smile and nod."
Dany is one of my favourite characters. Yes, in this scene she is irritating and childish, but she's also like 16. How competent a politician would you have been at that age? I like her because of her growth throughout the series. Even in 2016 she has a lot to learn but her growth is rapid as is her passion. with the help of Tyrian I think she could become a wise ruler.
Robb stark embarrased tywin lannister when he was 16
Rob was train how to fight and how to rule since he was young, he grew up in the castle, met with many lord and lady, he has his father to guild him while Daenerys doesn't has any of them, she has to run away from pace to place, she has to live in the street like a beggar for many year, Viserys has to sold their mother's crown so he and Daenerys will have something to eat, she hasn't any education that Rob or Sansa has, and she only has Viserys who is half mad to guild her.
Robb was also a pretty terrible king. he was a good strategist in the same way that Dany is a good conqueror. but at least Dany listens to her counsel a little bit.
if she's only 15, why give her the Iron Throne?
@@Skozerny cause she's the rightful heir??
Notice the look the merchant gets on his face right as Daenerys mentions the common people rising up to support her when she returns? That is the moment the deal went down the toilet. While I think this guy is a bit arrogant towards her, you have to look at things from his position. She comes to him asking him for his ships to bring her to Westeros, but has no way to cement her claim other than her childlike belief in the people flocking to her like in a fairytale. Its no wonder he said no, he has no guarantee of getting anything back other than her word and in doing so would risk his livelihood. She may be the Mother of Dragons, but this scene was stupid on her part.
Indeed. He made this "Ah" sound like "Ah, there it is. The final argument of someone who has nothing, but desperation."
Not with my ships.... OWNED!! hahahahaa
I love how the dialogue has a Nobility vs Merchant Class dialectical confrontation
In retrospective this is actually a foreshadowing of what happened to Daenerys in Season 8. The entitlement thinking he would just give her his ships even though all logical thinking would advise against it and he didn't owe her anything. She thought she was somehow special and above customs and logic. After all her dragoneggs hatched. From that day on she saw herself as someone who was destined for greatnes. Not a mere woman but some kind of goddess. And a goddess of course was entitled to anything she wanted and had the right to do anything imaginable to fulfil her mission even if it meant killing countless people or burning an entire city to the ground. We didn't see it then but her realising she can't be burned and her dragons hatching was the beginning of her madness. I just wish season 8 would've shown us more of it and make us understand it instead of making her mad in a matter of two seconds and just squeezing it into two episodes to wrap the story up.
"
In retrospective this is actually a foreshadowing of what happened to Daenerys in Season 8. The entitlement thinking he would just give her his ships even though all logical thinking would advise against it and he didn't owe her anything. She thought she was somehow special..."
I don't know, if a woman couldn't be touched by fire and had walked through fire, I'd start to think she was either a goddess or at the least, the servant of a goddess. (Or that mind-freak guy.) In which case, it would probably be wise to attend to her words. GoT is just a fanciful story but as long as we're playing in this milieu, She apparently can't be burned. I'd say that does make her kind of special. Within this story. You can't use parts of the story to prove a point but ignore the parts that are inconvenient to your point. "She was a spoiled brat!" No, she was a fire-proof spoiled brat. With dragons.
"And a goddess of course was entitled to anything she wanted and had the right to do anything imaginable to fulfil her mission even if it meant killing countless people or burning an entire city to the ground."
See, THAT"S the problem a lot of people have with the ending. She did NOT need to burn an entire city to the ground to fulfill her mission. IF the story had been written such that the entire city was determined to resist her to the death, then her burning the city to the ground would have been the sort of response an entitled goddess might have. BUT, the common people-the majority of the city-could care less which despot sits on some uncomfortable chair. They're all despots. They want to be left alone to live their lives. They weren't going to fight to the death for Cersei. Burning the city doesn't achieve her goal.
@@andersonsmith979 I think you missed rhe point of what I was saying. Of course she didn't need to burn the city. But if she didn't need to, rhen why did she do it? Because she had some psychological issues. To name it: Daenerys had a god-complex. Ever since she stepped out of that fire she saw herself as something beyond mere humans. She may not have used the word but in her mind she was like a goddess. And a Goddess would of course have no problems, punishing a whole city for the sins of one Queen (e.g. the Story of Queen Cassiopeia).
And this scene shows the beginning of this god-complex. Yeah of course she is special - she's fireproof and the mother of dragons - but because of this she's loosing her grip on reality. This man doesn't know that she's special. He wasn't there. He has nothing but her word that she's speaking the truth. He doesn't know her and doesn't ow her loyalty. But she somehow thinks that he does owe her loyalty just because she survived the flames. Don't get me wrong, I would probably think like her if the same happened to me but that doesn't change the fact that it is a sign of the madness that eventually drove her to burn King's landing. The biggest mistake of season 8 was to not properly explain that and to just make it seem as if she went mad in the matter of seconds, when actually that madness had been there since season 1.
Exactly my thoughts, it was always there, subtle and just foreshadowing but it was (granted, last season was rushed and all over the place, but the signs were definitely there)
Bro she is always been evil but in the show we see her as a victim. She wants to break a wheel but is like THE IRON THRONE IS MINE BY RIGHT every single time like you want to break a wheel by doing exactly what the wheel does? D&d got her character right tbh bc in the books shes even way more like this and no one sees it tbh when you heard about the books the ending of game of thrones seems more logical and tyrion is the only one who isnt written the same bruh is straight up kind of evil and dumb
@@shimanopetermann9068 Except there were already plenty of scenes between this moment and Season 8 that showed red flags in Daenerys’ character.
Season 2: Instead of arresting or even executing Doreah and Xaro (who betrayed her), she locks them up in a crypt so they can die in the dark while probably cannibalizing each other. This was exceptionally cruel when you think about it.
Season 3: Her first instance of burning a city to the ground. King’s Landing was not the first - she roasted Astapor too, and left it a broken city-state.
Season 4: Crucifying 100+ masters without checking if each of them were actually guilty (some of them were revealed to be abolitionists of slavery). When she gets called out for this by Hizdahr Zo Loraq, she maintains that her decision was absolutely correct and not up for debate.
Season 5: She feeds a few masters to her dragons without a trial because she was desperate to find out who was funding the Sons of the Harpies. This was despite her earlier insistence that she was a ‘queen, not a butcher.’ Later in the season, she also threatens to burn Meereen to the ground if she found the reasons to be justifiable.
Season 6: She threatens to burn down Meereen, Astapor, and Yunkai *again* when they rose against her. When she burned all of the Khals and took charge of their entire culture *just because she could*, that too was already a foreshadowing of what she was capable of doing in King’s Landing.
Season 7: The moment Tyrion’s plan to lay siege to King’s Landing fails, she furiously suggests that they just burn down the Red Keep with her dragons instead. Upon attacking the Lannister army in the Gold’s Road, she also executed the Tarlys without trial against her advisors’ wishes.
…and then there were those moments in Season 1 where her entitlement and vengefulness were already in full display, like the lustful look in her eyes when Drogo threatened to rape and pillage his way across Westeros to get her the Iron Throne or how she literally burned Miri Maz Duur for betraying her.
Dany’s brutality was always evident, we just excused it until the moment she did something truly fucked up, i.e. genocide.
The Spice King is my favourite character in the TV series. "So my little princess!" Perfect way to respond to Danny's seriousness.
Watching the show you're rooting for Dany at this point (or they want you to be) and you're on her side. *BUT*
If you watch this scene a bit disconnected from the events only we know, the Spice Merchant is right in every regard and polite to a fault. Dany also has some major crazy eyes going on and throws a threat filled tantrum when she doesn't get what she wants and her passion suddenly sounds a lot more like _madness._
👌
Researching early Danny scenes it is clear that she has the potetal for madness. Great foreshadowing.
She has to fight for everything she can get. Learning fast of the mid-evil ways.
"With fire and blood ".. House reference.. Nice
"With fire and blood i will take it" yup, the good queen who would never hurt innocents
She had been enjoying burning people and deluding herself that the 7 kingdoms were hers by right as well as that the people there loved her. She was a time bomb waiting to explode.
Daenerys: I am in charge here!
Merchant: Do you feel in Charge?!
If Ayn Rand wrote this.
- You do not run things here.
Danny: proceeds renaming Drogon into I do.
00:42 he wasn't arguing grammar, he was arguing semantics
The spice king is only reasonnable, down to earth and pragmatic character in the whole show.
This merchant was spot on about everything he said. He wasnt wrong AT ALL.
The spice king may have seemed like an ass at times, but to be fair he was only working with logic, which I can admire.
"But not with my ships" is so underrated
When I first watched this scene I was on Dany’s side, but now that I rewatch it I’m completely on that Spice King’s side and realize that Dany was acting like a bit of a spoiled brat that was expecting people to just hand things to her without thinking in logical terms
I think that guy was pretty reasonable. Daenerys didn't have an army and she didn't know anything about the "allies" she thought she had. Giving her ships is like giving money to some guy on the Internet who says that they are a Nigerian (sorry, Targaryen) prince who have millions of dollars that they want to give to a foreigner.
U b raycist. U pay the black man wht e b owed!
@@bkray26 no
Cmon... don't bring Nigeria into this
Rubbish quote.....
He made Dany sound and act like her brother Viserys which was really embarrassing on her part. He made a valid and legitimate argument. Birth rights, dreams, passion, etc, they don’t really matter, even in a feudal system unless you can prove your worth the investment. At this point, she wasn’t. Plus even in hindsight, after she matured and amassed her army and took the iron throne, she still proved to be a bad investment.
this guy is so reasonable, daenerys is just ignorant
+lachie gracie dAEnaRYS Targaryen, the Mad Queen
Runs in the family
lachie gracie *sails to Westeros with 4 fleets and an army larger than any kingdom in the realm*
Everyone is a Guru when things already happened. You can't expect that to happened when in this moment she did not have an army, allies or money. Just a delirant beggar queen.
YUSOMEAN Idiot
@Jedi Temple Guard omg true 😂😂
And that´s how kickstarter was born.
Goal: 8000 unsullied unlocked. Every spender gets a free spear in the ass or a little dragon flame.
Now daenarys learn what her brother had to go through for years just so he and she had food and shelter. Daenarys had no idea about her family only from what Viserys told her which wasn't ver reliable as he was 9 when he left and she herself has never been in Kingslanding she was born in Dragonstone. I think Daenarys flaw mostly is her inexperience and lack of knowledge of what is going on. She isn;t very aware of the houses of the 7 kingdoms and if she was she would have allied with them all a long time ago. Even if she went to Dorn they would definately help her
She learned in a few months what Viserys failed to in twenty years
@@NmaeUnavailablesigh Again Viserys was 9 when he left. And the 7 kingdoms changed a lot from when he was there. When he was there,Robert was still a new king and no one knew how long he would last.
@@NmaeUnavailablesigh Plus, Viserys was clearly under A LOT OF MENTAL STRAIN & FRUSTRATION, having to be a "beggar King" for all those years 💔 He just took out those on poor Danys 💔 As much as I HATED his abuse, my hearteu bled for the poor guy! His trauma started young & only deepened with time 😔
#THANKYOU for this OP❣
Viserys never got the understanding & compassion that he deserved from the GoT community!!
@@marissasue319 well you have a point here
She was so naive back then and then she learned from experience overtime. In this particular scene, instead of saying “my dreams come true” which is the most absurd thing you can say when you are begging for ships, she could have said “my ancestor, Aegon the Conquerer, unleashed his three dragons onto the seven kingdoms until the kings of those kingdoms either bent the knee or burned in fire. I too have the same power. Power so great that everyone will have only choice but to bend their knee.” Something along the line. That’s probably the best thing she could have said at that point. The merchant may or may not have given her the ships but that’s the best that could have been said.
Puta si webon. La firme alucina que si
She was in learning process that time.. But later she dfntly said it directly or indirectly what u said in your comment..
The trader is 100% right. "She's so awesome / OMG she totally deserves it / he dissed her!" = "she's gorgeous." Nothing more. She IS gorgeous. But if an old hag were saying it to the trader everyone in these comments would be laughing at her. And rightly so.
anyviolet Not really, moron.
I love Dany but sometimes she was kind of annoying, particularly in the earlier seasons. She demanded things expecting her Targaryen name would have everyone falling at her feet. I mean I understand a lot was taken from her family and she went through traumatic things, but she demanded things like she was a god. I mean other than demanding to lead the Dothraki and burning the Khals like a boss, that was badass. And taking Astapor was a boss move. But it kind of annoyed me when she demanded that Jon bend the knee. Like um girl he was named king of the North and your father burnt his family alive, I don’t think he’s gonna bend the knee the very first time he meets you, you were a little bold with that one. I love her and she’s one of my favorite characters, but there were a couple instances like this that she thought everyone should just fall to their knees because she had the Targaryen name. Buttttt she was also still learning the works of diplomacy so this was a well learnt lesson.
Well... In house of dragon, targaryans said it clearly they are more near to god than odinary men.. 😂 😂
Agreed
And then flexing her dragon power when they refuse to bend the knee "dId YoU SeE ThRee DraGonS?🥴" man I started hating on her from season 4 and on, but then again there were some parts I liked a lot about her but mostly hated how entitled she was
I think better name for Season 8 episode 5 "Bells" would be Fire and Blood
1x10 was already named Fire and Blood
@@nialma4371 this
But then we wouldn’t have been as surprised 🙃
@@marisaveilleux8533 sUbvERt ExPEctAtioNs
Actually the bells turned her insane, that's why the episode is named bells. Bells ringing is not surrender, it's the beginning of war
She keeps claiming the throne as her birth right when it's not, because the house Baratheon defeated the Targaryens fair and square, it's called right of conquer.
The reason Baratheon could get the throne was their Targ blood in first place. Robert’s grandmother was Targaryen.
@@definitelynotacheater the blood helped cement the claim, but it was claimed by right of conquest.
and if people are generally accepting. Conquered lands also have the people behind them in some cases. In this case the people were generally tired of the Mad King's crap so the people were optimistic of having a new dynasty. In the era of Aegon's Conquest, the people I'm sure were tired of fighting each other when it was 7 kingdoms and were probably relieved to have a unified country so they weren't sending their kids off to get killed.
That's also called 'stealing', and has been the cause of many a second war following to 'rightfully conquer it back'.
@@definitelynotacheater That was the excuse they used to keep Targaryen Loyalist in line. Robert won the throne like every other Dynasty founder.
In season 8 she did take the Iron Throne with fire and blood. And held it for about 2 minutes,
I like that guy. the most intelligent and logical man in the show.
This is what I missed in the last seasons. This beautiful conversations and the wittiness in them. Only chapter 5 of all season 8 was at the level of this at the end of the series.
Season 8 spice trader: My lady, I have a stack of gold reserved for charitable actions, unfortunately it is as short as the cock of an unsullied from Astapor!
"She doesn't just sip it. She gets trashed and unrolls my socks. But I eat shrimps."
+RioMadeira Anyone who puts a slice of pizza on bread is a Puka-Chay Puka-Chay.That's Aztec for "lazy farmer".
+Marcela Silva "Last night we met this cool guy and he was black, and then we went to the firebug's house and i was soo good"
" Are a fan of the Pikachu?"
+Failman Movies though Beth overdrinks
+Marcela Silva u got that dope
Although Daenerys is my favorite character in the show, you can clearly see differences between her and Daenerys book version.
In the books Daenerys doesn't expect people to give her anything and most importantly she doesn't yell at them for no reason
ua-cam.com/video/w86rotpPU1Q/v-deo.html
- I can give you a dragon for a sufficiently large fleet.
- I give you 10 ships, even 20.
- How many do you have?
- 80-something and a pleasure yacht.
- And how many ships are there in the whole region?
- A lot, many thousands.
- Do you know how many living dragons are there in the world? Only three. Don't you think one dragon is worth something like one third of the whole fleet of the region? Like several thousand ships?
- AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA you are not reasonable my fair lady.
- Fine with me, I'll find my ships elsewhere.
"When were you there last?" Damn
Had her dragons been fully grown at that time, he would be giving every ship he had up to her in an instant
He would because unlike in this video she would then have something to show that was worth investing in.
Yes
Story aside, she truly does sound like every entitled, self-righteous, identitarian narcissist in the Wokesphere: "I can be anything I say I am!," "I will liberate the world!," "Gimme it, it's mine!," "If you don't give me what I want, and call me by my special names, I'll destroy everything!," "They don't get to choose!" A character for our time. A Song of Grievance and Revenge.
If you were last of your bloodline and If you could have hatch three dragons from fire unburnt, you would have this confidence in yourself too.
more like danarys woketarian
This video encompasses the difference of using pathos or logos in an argument.
She did it... With fire and blood
She wasnt kidding. She got her throne; with fire and blood as she always promised. What a great character and the hints were always there but us Dany fans didnt want to believe it. But it was always there. Our Mad Queen
@Daniel Pereira ah yes. except for the innocent people she lured into a pyramid to be burned alive and eaten by her dragons
Lion of the Blue Vale they weren’t innocent though, they were helping to fund the Sons of The Harpy. Why do you think she brought them there in the first place? Lol
Spraying hints doesn’t equate character development. People don’t hate that dany turned evil, they hate that the show made her evil overnight without proper build up.
@@udaygadge6064 there are already hints since season one if you're paying attention.
All the parents that named their daughters "Khaleesi" and "Danaerys" collectively bumped their head on the wall after watching The Bells.
Nothing encompasses Dany’s turn on S8 more than this scene. She’s ALWAYS been entitled, arrogant and power hungry. She’s always used her dragons to intimidate and threatened this who didn’t submit to her. That she was a liberator doesn’t change this. She had good intentions and wished to rule peacefully but her ruthlessness and violent impulses can’t be denied.
In here she claims the people will rally behind her and give her a swift victory. None of that happened. What she’s been dreaming of was utterly crushed. NO ONE supported her in Westeros and she lost everyone she loved as well. She doesn’t trust her advisors and her claim turned out to be BS as well. How can you blame her going full Targaryen? She decided to rule by fear because at that point it didn’t matter anymore. She’s been through too much and everything she dreamt of got completely crushed. She won the Throne but the victory was hollow, therefore she turns into a true Targaryen. She tried to rule peacefully but it clearly didn’t work out.
She's always pulled by fear😂and she also believed everything that her brother believe in too. Poor child
She became the queen of ashes, from all she had burned.
Agreed, it shows how incompetent D&D ar that they botched something so clearly telegraphed
*I take what is mine* She says that so much!! Although Tyrion is supporting her and I like Tyrion, I dont like Daenery's Brat little ass!
Don't forget that Ellaria Sand also supports her. Hopefully all that bad poosi will completely destroy her reputation. Tyrion loved Myrcella. If he finds out Ellaria murdered her, there'll be hell to pay.
♞ Go Fuck Yourself ♞ I doubt that her reputation will get harmed. D&D LOVES her!
Olenna Tyrell also support her too and you must admit that queen of thorn is the most bad ass women in seven kingdoms.
This dude shoulda wrote the season 8 script
When logic and passion collides.
I mean, you can't blame the guy.
Imagine that you run a business and some lady approaches you:
- Give me your money!
- Why?
- Because I was born in the fires of the Holy Spirit!
- Yeah... Can you go away?
- I will pay you back 3 times!
- Lady, can you fuck off or should I call the Police?
She lived her entire life in fear so when she became powerful she punished everyone by inspiring the very thing she hated the most: Fear
Its crazy how more maturely Daenerys faced mearchent in the books despite being 14...She didn't cry for ships..
Everybody that says her character in the last episodes was totally different: here you see her crazy shine through.
Nope. She's not crazy here. She's just naive and arrogant and passionate
how is this crazy shes just desperate from what I see
@@meggers1771 "I'm no ordinary woman, my dreams come true." There's a billion red flags there...
As danerys demand respect by saying im not your little princess, he gave her the respect by addressing her as my lady. Shes not a queen yet but she is a princess. Nice detail.
By birthright she became a queen the moment when Drogo crowned her brother.
Literally an episode where the Dragon and the den are on opposite sides of the room.
The most important question from a shrewd businessman: do you have an army? Do you have powerful allies? When were you last there?
Conclusion: nobody will take all the risks for you no matter how promising you are...
- Sir, my business plan is based on serious foundations! I have like a couple of dozen Dothraki, you are my ally and in Westeros everybody is sewing dragon banners!
well, that's the point though she isn't "promising" in the least bit
If he invested in her, he'd have to stick around for season 8. So it's a good thing he didn't
*I think he also saw that she was a ticking time bomb.*
I love this scene THE PEOPLE WILL FIGHT FOR THEIR RIGHTFUL QUEEN the people will fight for who they think will win
The lower classes would rather follow the brotherhood without banners, or High sparrow before, dany, the people wont do shit for her, with her rep. in Westeros at best she could buy some mercenaries there, best case scenario.
+Final Sebas tge people may love her now though it's not like the lannisters are loved and when she does come to westores she'll see that wow this place has seen better days
keelah Se'lai I just hope she doesnt wage war against Jon, that would be stupid, I think we might have a stand of the north to free itself from the Iron Throne´s King chains, if daenerys comes to claim the Iron Throne, I doubt Jon would kneel to her without good conditions too.
Well Jon army is weakened after fighting the boltons the north overall is weakened most of the men died fighting for Robb stark also the free folk army Is shattered especially now if denearys does cross and tried to claim the north it's in Jon best interest to kneel
How does she know that they will when she havent met any of them or lived in Westeros! Stupid woman! if she didnt have Tyrion, she wouldnt stand any chance!
Something I love about this scene is that it avoids a mistake I see a _lot_ in fiction and absolutely despise: Equating "trusting someone's intentions/honesty/integrity/loyalty" with "trusting someone's abilities/competence/judgement/knowledge". I see this in so many things, where someone insists that if so-and-so _really_ trusts so-and-so then they have to have total faith in their judgement or abilities, and if they don't then they don't really trust them and they're a bad friend/relative/coworker/whatever. _And the plot vindicates them._ I see this in so much stuff, like Finding Nemo, RWBY, Harry Potter, Parisa, etc. This scene not only avoids that, it actively educates us that there are different kinds of trust and having one does not guarantee having another.
Her application was rejected, she had no credit history.
The strain in her voice at 2:47 would make you believe this was real life, so much yearning in that “...I will take it”. Excellent work by Emilia
She is such an amazing actress.
2:48
"...and i will take what is mine. With fire and blood, i will take it" :(
This merchant’s logic was impeccable. He taught her a valuable lesson.
They are so ahead of their time... just look at the artistry on that beautifully welded hand rail
He's totally, utterly, COMPLETELY right! It's so evident is silly, you cannot question his logic. Even though what she said at the end was beautiful it doesn't change the facts.
This Merchant is amazing at arguments and challenging statements.
She's saying "My dreams come true" and all he's trying to tell her is make them come true first and then we can talk, until then she's just a little princess; who hasnt been a real princess since she had to be expedited out as a baby, after her father was murdered. Calling herself the mother of dragons made her sound like a religious cult leader more than an actual general whose capable of paying the merchant triple. Note to the wise, never sell your dream more than selling your plan.
I don't know why people hate what they did to her character, they literally told us in Season 2 exactly what she would do.
"I will take what is mine, with fire and blood I will take it"
People don't hate the end-game, they hate the way it was executed.
@@ringwe I think she finally realized that she had to take the city by force. They were never going to accept her as the rightful ruler the only way she thought to rule was by fear. And she didn't realize that she actually hated her homeland. Never saw them as her allies.
What no one brings up: Cersei burned the Sept of Baelor, killing thousands and thousands, and then opened the gates and tens of thousands flocked in like she was their bestest friend, and it's these people who get burned. Just does not make sense: why would anyone want to be near a mad Queen who burns her own people in their own church while another, possible mad, Queen approaches with dragons capable of burning cities?
Anyone who lived near King's Landing had fled into the city in the first two seasons, and anyone with a brain knew where the dragons would gather: that iron chair....
I mean: how many people are fleeing INTO Ukraine at the moment? And there is just one mad Queen trying to burn it all. So why would anyone in their right mind try to hug close to the object of mad adoration of TWO?
This is why I support Stannis
A shame Stannis and dany never met, they would have a good ol´ discussion, on why: "Me ruling is better than you", thing, before trying to morder each other lol.
stannis killed his own daughter :/ To be fair, only in teh show tho...
Is book Stannis better than show Stannis? I'm a pleb who doesn't have time to read books.
He is sooooooo much better. The daughter burning thing doesn't happen. Stannis is off by winterfell and Shireen is in Castle Black. Stannis refuses to burn people for no reason unlike the show. And his campaign in the north is far more effective and badass.
seraphiccandy21 He killed his own daughter to save millions.
Sure, it was for nothing. Mel's magic had worked every time so far, but now it didn't.
This guy could argue a better logical defense of Winterfell than Season 8 could.
She definitely showed signs of being a bit of a mad queen early on with talks of 'taking what's "hers"' and talks of fire and blood just because they don't support her
Before they let her in the city gates remember she said “ when my dragons are grown I will burn cities to the ground “
@@Oakland510 -those that have wronged her.
Always a amazing performance 🎭 by a brilliant Actress and beautiful person
One and only Emilia Clarke Godbless her ❤️❤️❤️❤️
“The people will rise to fight for their rightful queen” … no, no they won’t
@Silver Lady I don't know if comprehension skills can be learned at this point in your life, but that doesn't constitute "the people" rising. The lords did... cause they had no other choice. Dorne hated the Lanisters and couldn't defeat them alone. The North hated the Lanisters and couldn't defeat them alone. Olena of Highgarden hated the Lanisters after they killed her family, so she jumped ship. Finally, Euron became king of the Iron Island and his nephew and niece joined Daenerys cause they couldn't defeat Euron themselves. That doesn't mean "the people". It really isn't that hard for someone with a comprehension level of a 6 year old.
I mean people did support her when she came to westeros the tyrells, iron islands (some of them),and dorne problem was dany was such a dumbass she lost all her allies
In the books, that's Dany's most grievious flaw. She says her brother was wrong and didn't know much of anything, yet she is unable to separate what she has been taught because it would mean she might not take back what is hers. If we ever get a new book, it would be interesting to see if she is able to rectify this and change.
@@samphillips8188 In the books Danny decides to rule Meereen, which is hers by conquest. She ends up sick and half roasted eating a half baked horse together with her dragon, when a bunch of Dothraki appear around her while her people in Meereen try to sort out what to do while their Queen has been carried away by a wild dragon. I sort of do not see the connection with what you are trying to say. What does she do wrong in the books?
Ya know, I never quite understood why the Targaryens were always claiming to be the "rightful heirs" to the Iron Throne. ESPECIALLY after she stood by and watched her brother get killed, thus clearing the way for her to become Queen. Last time I checked Royal history, the throne belonged to those who had the power to keep it. Her father got offed, throne changes hands....happens all the time!
I guess because Aegon conquered the kingdoms for his blood line? But you're right, their "divine" right means little to opposing forces. Plus Targaryens are ass at ruling. They can seize power but can handle it.
There's a lot of talk about how she is too 'idealistic' and that there isn't enough logic in how she communicates her case. However, in the real world, great artists and outliers don't get what they want by putting forth a logical business claim all the time. They are able to make their dreams into reality with a different kind of persuasive power. At this point, she's not dumb, she's just inexperienced when it comes to persuading this particular investor.
To me, she knows that she needs to be communicate with confidence even though the odds are not in her favour. If you don't ooze confidence and power from every pore then how do you expect others to take you seriously, especially as a women, in that world!? Just because she comes off like this in the presence of other powerful people doesn't mean that she doesn't have a realistic view of herself when she goes to bed at night. She knows that she must take big risks for big rewards. She's smart because she's playing off of her best strengths and she's not a defeatist.
lets be real she went to ask for all those things on a poor plan. Plus her first impression when she met the guy was to threaten to burn him.
I will agree with the woman part. Still to kill a man in his own huse because he tells you no. Seriously do you want no one to do business with her?
in real life, this is a terrible sales pitch. The spice man reasonably raise some barriers, which Daenerys is not able to really overcome. She speaks so long of how good her "product" completing ignoring the paint point of the buyer (the spice man). Even worst, she gets hard boiled threating the buyer for not seeing the obvious(?) advantages of the trade. At that point the sales is doomed, over,kaputt. You will never manage to sell anything when you reach this point. Luckily for Daenerys she has a very young pussy and 3 fucking big dragons (not yet big here, still quite valuable).
Speaking of which, she learns from her mistakes during the trade of the unsullied. She understands the pain point of the buyer and she gets what she wants (again, having a dragon that spits fire facilitate the deal)
This was the best comment on this UA-cam video, 10/10
And she improves later on..like when in astapor, she pretends like she doesn't understand valyrian so she could have an upper hand etc. She was never dumb, just untrained.
Love this. Entitled emotional kid gets schooled by a businessman with logic.
Entitled emotional kid with 3 dragons
@@daeltgryn05
And natural fire immunity, claim to the throne, an army of simps and so on
None of which she earned
I feel like in scenes like this you get a glimps of what Danaerys will do later on. In S6 and S7 I thought a lot of times tgat she was capable of terrible things for her wishes, and getting more and more extreme and mercyless. I know everyone was shocked by the ending, but I actually thought it quite fitting to her development.
I didn't . Dany was supposed to be the queen or die a hero . I would have preferred the latter
She torched the city for literally no reason
A lot of people still don't understand that George r.r. Martin hates figures of authority. They're too used to Marvel soft approach to the consequences of a chaotic world full of despair and violence.
A violent world changes people.
Warlord with three dragons sound like a good investment bro.
Holy shit she was not kidding
The true hero of the show
Dude made some excellent points
Once you notice the modern-looking handrail, you can't unnotice it.
Imagine if he was still alive at the end of season 6, and she went and asked him for ships again.
By that point, she had 3 large dragons, 8,000 Unsullied, 2,000 Second Sons, ~50,000 Dothraki (maybe more), and alliances with Dorne, Highgarden, and a portion of the Iron Born fleet.
I wonder how good of an investment he'd decide she was then?