AVRO ARROW vs - BATTLE FOR RANKIN INLET (PART 2)
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- Опубліковано 2 лис 2019
- I would like to thank Palmiro Campagna for his book and excellent research on the demise of the Arrow. It was fuel for thought in this episode.
(Series Link - • AVRO ARROW vs F 35 & F 18 )
NOTE: This is a work of fiction. Names, characters, businesses, places, events and incidents are either the products of the author’s imagination or used in a fictitious manner. Any resemblance to actual persons, living or dead, or actual events is purely coincidental.
This was a masterpiece of a video. I appreciate all the hard work you put into it. RIP Simon Pothier
Thanks Viper. I appreciate that. regards...Virtual
I'm amazed I was able to watch the whole thing without passing out. I was holding my breath most of the time.
Thank you guys you have done a great job. I think some one should be looking at you guys to new CBC series on The Arrow's continuing story. Thanks again.
valid questions for Canada
looking forward to the next installment!
This is really good ! As a proud Canadian I'm always rejoicing at the memory of our electrifying Jet Fighter THE AVRO ARROW !!!
Romain Lavoie This like the US have forbidden my homeland to develop the best European jets.
Say thank you to your "friends" from the United States, they killed your military aircraft industry and made you a slave
Thank you Sir once again. It has been a worthwhile wait. A very clever story line and a great Victory Roll.
I’m sorry for your loss. My condolences.
Hi Unlimited....He was a great pianist. He will be missed.....thanks for the comment.....regards....Virtual
GREAT!!!!!!! Your story gets better each and every time. Thank You Sir. Can't wait for Next one Mark 111.
Thanks Johnboyu....I know you are a fan and that's what keeps this going. regards...Virtual
👍THANK YOU JOB WELL DONE
LOOKING FORWARD TO THE NEXT ONE 👍👍
Awesome series. Thank you soooo much! Can't wait for the Mk III to kick ass
Hi Sanny. Thanks very much for the comment. The next three episodes carry on the development of the Arrow as it would have been, but the story line changes somewhat. I have to build a lot more 3D stuff. so it will be a while. Also, heading south for a bit. I expect I will release Ep. 7 in the spring. regards...Virtual
Thought provoking, invigorating and a rollicking adventure as well. Thank you sir, may we have another!?
Hi Dowker Net....There will be some more. Thanks for the comment. regards....Virtual
When I was a kid I saw the Arrow fly over our house more than once around Dixon Rd and Kipling area of Toronto in late 50’s. In the mid 60’s I worked at Douglas Aircraft in Malton and quite a few of the guys I worked with were old Avro guys, lots of stories from them. We lost a lot of talent to the U.S. after Black Friday.
Your uncle was an absolute genius! I do not know what I love best:
The Plots, The Dialogue, the Animations, or the Music!
THANK YOU SO MUCH!
I wish I had a copy of that music. You COULD sell CD's.
Maybe enough to build one arrow! (I know, unlikely.)
You are a genius, too!
Hi P.M. Thank you for your comment. There will be another set of Episodes more focused on the Mark 3 Arrow. regards....Virtual
@@Virtualenvirons I will be watching, though... with only TWO eyes! Take Car, and LLAP!
i have just found this last episode and now have to find the first ones. My father Flt SGT J (jack) MacPherson (rip) was RCN in WW11, then spent another 25 years RCAF as an FE on the first of the Argus'. I remember how angry Dad was when the Arrow was destroyed. I was 9 in 1958 , in Greenwood NS .. 14 wing. Dad would so love to have seen your work. Thank you and i will search for the other episodes. I was tearing up, with no shame . Thank you again .. dave
Hi J....thank you very much for the comment and thanks for watching. Below is the series link....regards....Virtual
ua-cam.com/video/AjuL9IM-1T0/v-deo.html
@@Virtualenvirons thank you sir, i hope to be conversing some more, after i watch more episodes. I love the piano. What you are doing here is so vital to any free thinking people keeping truth alive. wow .. J
Dude episodes 4, 5, and 6 were amazing I welled up a few times can't wait to watch the next one
HI Lyndon...Thanks for the comment. I will likely release a Trailer for Episode 7 next week. I am not sure whether I will release it as Ep. 7 or Start a new series, but either way, the beginning of Mark lll is soon. regards....Virtual
@@VirtualenvironsTerá outros vídeos desse em breve wait
Wonderful... absolutely stellar.
Love you videos, beautiful rendition of I wish you love , and love the victory role of the Arrow after she went vertical ❤️❤️
Thanks, I appreciate the comment. I am working on the next set of Episodes, but it will be the spring before the first on it out. regards....Virtual
Excellent like always
This score always calms me, even when in World of Tanks, my team sucks.
Just a remarkable story. Should be made into a movie.
Hi Warren, I have pitched the idea to a few companies. Unfortunately, there are very young people involved and they don't really understand this story. I guess that's why we do it. regards...Virtual
Brilliant !!!
Great video !
Keep up the good work.
Can't wait for the next episode!
Hi Blue...There will be another set of Episodes based on the Mark 3....regards...Virtual
@@Virtualenvirons Yes, and I can't wait for that episode. What improvements will be made? Can't wait to find out!
@@att1743 My friend, I am afraid you will have to wait. This will be the start of a new series although it will be Ep. 7, but I have to work things out. regards..Virtual
I've enjoyed the videos, with lots of facts about the Arrow, and an interesting story line. When I first discovered the videos, I had a hard time figuring out their order, perhaps a change in the naming convention would help?
Hi Neale....Thanks for the comment. When I began this project, I envisioned two maybe three episodes. I am about to release 11 and 13, but that will be it. That is part of the reason for the naming convention being all over the place.
If you watch the videos to the very end, there is a link to the next video. There are ten episodes, two more coming within a month. These will be the final episode. Thanks for watching...Virtual
Hope to see Mark III soon. You guys are addicting.
Hi Ian. Thank you very much for the comment. There will likely be a delay in the next episode. My wife and I moved to the country in July and we are still getting things straightened out. I know some people look for the series and I may make a post explaining the delay. regards...Virtual
I like that secret meeting. American intelligence at its finest hour!
Probably jealous, the Arrow was better than anything we had proposed. Can only imagine what future versions would've been capable of.
@@anthonybanchero3072 Why be jealous? We, the US and Canada were and are the best of friends. It would be a sign of good faith to sell the Arrow to the U.S. That way we are both on equal footing. Neither can attack the other without serious consequences. I wish they would have built the Arrow and put it in production with the Iroquois engines. The thing could do Mach 1.9 with American engines, (at 1/3 throttle). Imagine what it could do with the more powerful Iroquois. We (Canada and the USA) would have put everyone else's fighters/bombers in the stone age.
Absolutely love your video. I hope Canada, one day, will remember that we don't have to follow. It is a choice and I hope we make a good one for our future.
Well said....Virtual
Great Battle! What do you plan on doing with our aging Arrow crew? Star Trek Generation Two? Keep them coming! Like your follower says, Maybe see if the CBC is interested.
Thank you Ron for the comment. I will begin a new story line with Ep. 7, but I will need time to work out details and build the new models, etc. regards...Virtual
Is this the last video in the series? If not, it needs a link. Youtoob search does not find it.
Hi Richard. This is the current last episode. There will be more. They take time to make. regards....Virtual
You make som awesome what if it survived videos. Too bad they couldn't have reverse engineered the one remaining Arrow and produced many more!!
Hi Sotm...Thanks for the comment. I appreciate that. That would be a whole new series, but I don't think it would resonate as well as a series based on "the one that got away". regards....Virtual
This plane should have been built as it was way ahead of its time - it hastened the end of an innovative, proud company that made many great aircraft. The US should have been buying the Arrow instead of selling inferior planes to Canada. By the way, this American family will ALWAYS considers Canada to be our closest ally and friend. I'm sure that most Americans feel that way as well. Hopefully our politics will change for the better in 2020. My country needs to realize that Canada is an equal as an independent country that needs to be able to chart the course that's best for the Canadian people without undue foreign influence. We look forward to visiting our neighbors north of the border again soon.
And we look forward to having you here...regards.....Virtual
@@Virtualenvirons I have watched every one. How programmed and conditioned we have become. IMO the majority of people that comment have missed the big picture. They are thinking about country instead of MAN. It's about humans and our abilities to understand the Universe, and each other. The owners take it away from us because with freedom they cannot control us. And so much more. This program depicts what the Arrow could do physically, but lacks explanation of what it did for Canadian's spiritually, in that even, with me, born 1954, I wanted to shed a tear or more because of man's Creation... man's abilities to go "More Than". Our leaders sell us out all the time. It is like watching Star Trek back in the sixties. There is so much more than war, blood, money and control. Thank you.
@@raymondshupena8262 We were born in the same year. This is a difficult story to tell. It had to be told in two different centuries to do correctly. On the spiritual aspect, if you read through all the comments, especially Ep. 1 where most are, you can feel the emotion of many Canadians of our age.
The reason behind this series is not financial I don't allow advertising and there is a significant cost involved. The story of the Arrow would have been lost with our generations passing. This is the only series that tells the story of the Arrow in a non-depressing way and tells it accurately, except perhaps for the last episode. I don't really think the Russian were involved in the way I portrayed them.....artistic licence. regards...Virtual
@@Virtualenvirons I loved this series. Please do not misunderstand me. And it made me emotional, both because I am a Canadian and because I think I understand the shackles placed upon man in ALL endeavors, and all man's institutions. It is frustrating. Anything good is taken over and used against man. And I appreciate what you have done to no end. Gives me hope. And thank you again. I will be here for your next one. And time willing I will try and read all the posts in the comment section. Sure to respond if I do. lol Always, Ray
@@raymondshupena8262 HI Ray, I did not think your were saying anything negative, on the contrary, I really appreciate your comment and the poignant aspect of it. The next set of Episodes (3 or 4) will finish the story of the Arrow and Canada's blind eye towards continental defence. I have to build a lot of stuff for this and I am working on that before my wife and I leave for Barbados. I expect the first of the last Episodes to be out early Spring. regards...Virtual
Sorry it took me so long to post, I still have about 4,500 photos to sort out for Adobe stock. Your Battle plan was very good. Give the bad boys something to look at and chase. Fire long range missiles to give the bad boys something to think about, (no pilot could or would turn their backs on incoming missiles. Then sneak a second group in low and close and take them out, very
realistic, very good job on the battle plan. There is nothing better than an aerial ambush!
I also took time to read the fine print in part 1 where the chiefs of staff were talking to the president. The ranges for the Arrow Mk2 are misleading as they show 408 Nautical Miles (not miles) radius on a low-speed mission with 5 minutes supersonic combat and 264 NM, radius on a high-speeds mission. Those numbers were from the project report 12 in 1957 not 1958 while
Avro did print those numbers, the numbers were from the result of the NACA inflating the Drag on the Arrow by about 20%.
Even Avro was over estimating the drag by about 10% up until the Mk1 flew. Avro originally stated in 1955 a 630 NM radius on a low-speed mission with 5 minutes supersonic combat, 400 NM radius on a high-speed supersonic mission. The chiefs of staff would have been fully aware of this by way of Dr. Courtland Perkins (Chief Scientist for the USAF), John Foster Dulles (U S Secretary of State), and Allen Walsh Dulles, (Head of the CIA).
The numbers for the Arrow Mk2A are about right at a combat range of 787 NM (more or less) for a low speed mission with 5 minutes of supersonic combat and 575 NM for a high speed mission.
As for the Arrow Mk3, I do remember seeing those numbers … low speed mission radius of 593 NM and a high speed radius of 487 NM. However I don’t remember where I saw them and I couldn’t find them in any of my reference material. I think my grandkids have some of the
books with that info in it.
The Arrow Mk3 has about the same combat range as the Arrow Mk2A; the Mk3 was almost 17,000 pounds more in weight than the Mk2 with an extra 10,000 pounds of internal fuel being responsible for most of the extra weight, bringing the total internal fuel to 28,738 pounds. Jim
Floyd is on record as having said “The Arrow Mk4 version differed from the Mk3 airframe by being skinned in titanium. So while I don’t have the numbers for the Mk3 on hand, I do have for the Mk4 in the way of the ”Arrow Mk4 Long Range Mission NO.7 USAF Long Range Intercept Mission”, this is without ramjet augmentation. This was submitted to the USAF in 1957 for the (LRIX aka F-108 long range intercept program without ramjet augmentation) and Dr. Courtland Perkins (Chief Scientist for the USAF), would have been well aware of it).
“This mission consisted of an economical climb cruise for 250 nautical miles followed by a 60 minute loiter at 38-41,000 ft. The aircraft is then accelerated to Mach 2.5 and climbed to 80,000 ft. at which altitude an approximately 280 nautical miles, Mach 2.5 dash is executed, bringing the out-bound radius to 575 nautical miles. This is followed by 10 minutes combat at 80,000 ft., Mach 3 and sustained 1.5 maneuvers. The return radius consists of a decent to 48,000 ft altitude, a Mach .92 climb cruise followed by 15 minutes loiter at 40,000 ft., and a landing with reserve for 5 minutes loiter at sea level. The deviation of this mission from the [USAF] requirement is a dash at Mach 2.5 in lieu of Mach 3, and combat at 80,000 ft. in lieu of 70,000 ft.” Give what Jim Floyd said then the Mk3 would have been able to as well. Mind you the Mk4 with the added ramjets would leave the Mk3 behind.
The Arrow Mk4 was largely capable of meeting the LRIX specification and was being proposed for just that. This is from 1957 so again we know the estimate is conservative. Avro projected the ferry range of this aircraft to be 2,540 NM (over 2900 statute miles). This is comparable to the range of the SR-71 Blackbird spy plane. The ramjet-augmented Mk4 would have had double the thrust to-weight performance of the Blackbird. We also know that John Foster Dulles (U S Secretary of State), the brother of Allen Walsh Dulles, (Head of the CIA) told MND Pearkes in mid 1958 that the US would never buy Arrows. Not even to save American taxpayers the expense of developing the F-108 and the SR.71.
So yes the USA, know full well what the Arrow could do thanks to of Dr. Courtland Perkins (Chief Scientist for the USAF), John Foster Dulles (U S Secretary of State), and
Allen Walsh Dulles, (Head of the CIA).
Hi Jim. Great info...thanks very much. Yes, I did wonder if you had fallen off a cliff or something out in the wilderness. regards...Virtual
Falling off a cliff would be better than having to sort out all the photos! Next year I will take my laptop with me and do the editing every night instead of letting them pile up ... I hate this part of the job.
Love the Arrow videos... A look at what might have, and should have been.. If Mark 3 continues, what about hardpoints for underwing ordinance along with internal weapons?? More teeth on the White Dragon??
HI John/Karen....Thanks for the comment. I don't know if you have seen all the episodes up to ten, but there will probably be two more episodes to finish the story. The "white dragon" will fly again, but you will be watching it on another channel. I am in the process of creating a dedicated channel for these movies. I never thought that we would make more than one or two episodes, so I left them on my Virtualenvirons channel. Watch for the update...regards....Virtual
@@avroarrowcf-105channel8
Looking forward to it... To be honest I get the shivers every time I see RL-206..The storyline is just too plausible for comfort..Well done!!
Fantastic video. I wish that the Avro was not cancellled, as she was one "badass" airplane which would have done our WW1 and WW2 veterans proud.
Thanks for watching....Virtual
HA HA HA! I just got the joke! Major Kuriakin. First name, Ilia, right? It looks like his Canuck Uncle took care of his problems. This is why I watch these over and over. With my lousy eyesight, I keep missing, then picking up new details. I need to get that bigger monitor, but COVID! And I will soon have the cash! Soon....
glad your having fun P.M. I am busy with the combat scenes for the Mark 3 these days. regards...Virtual
9:39 should be 1944, not 1945. Sorry I did not catch that earlier.
HI Brad. You've been busy in the last few hours. Good Catch though. I know it was 1944, but when you look at something for weeks, simple things often go by without notice. I can't change it now unfortunately.....regards.....Virtual
Looking forward to Mark III, is there a time frame?
Hi Richard. The last six episodes told the story of the Arrow up to the Mark 2. The next three or four will tell the story of the planned Mark 3. But, I have to build a lot of stuff for that. My wife and I are heading to Barbados for a while. I expect something for late Spring. Thank you so much for watching. regards...Virtual
Virtualenvirons
Thanks for all your great work, have a great vacation!
an updated and rebuilt avro is still a viable possibility....
I really wish it was true we still had our fighter. We could use it or a modern version today more than ever. Seeing what’s happening in the states. Canada needs to be ready to defend itself from the US if needed.
Hi Brent....I think your comment is being felt more and more by many Canadians these days in the era of a Trump Administration regards...Virtual
If only!!!
I too live in Kingston. And love the arrow. It was like super man that the Canadian government killed.
Hi Perry....Yes, who would have ever thought that Diefenbaker could be compared to Kryptonite. Thanks for watching, I am working on Ep. 9 right now and it is going to be a good one. regards....Virtual
I couldn’t find some episodes 3,4
I like the spin that the Americans and the Russians were in collusion to make the Canadian government think that it was useless
I really wish they had just put them away some where instead of destroying them.
HI Perry. Below is the series link. It has all the episodes, plus two documentaries I created in conjunction with my contributors. I do not live in Kingston, but not too far away. What do you do in Kingston. regards....Virtual
ua-cam.com/video/AjuL9IM-1T0/v-deo.html
Captain Midnight sure could have utilized the Arrow.
Pretty sure the arrow would not keep uo in dog fight in anything made after the 2000 but might have a chance with thrust retiring tech abd speed but would be a great inter enter abs strategic strick bomber not fight
In this version you left out the upgrade to the engines to the Iroquois. The upgrade to the bigger engines is important.
Hi Mike. We fight 206 as it would have been in 1959. The engines would have been series 2 Iroquois. That was the last version. The upgrade in Ep. 8 is where the next version (Series 3) Iroquois might have gone if funded. regards....Virtual
I really don't get the piano thing. Excellent story and animation.
UA-cam knows if you are using music that is recorded by an artist and will ask you if you have the rights to use it...if not....then no and they block the video. The only way around that is play and record the music yourself. Thanks for watching. regards...Virtual
In reality Canada does need two jets one for close contact to handle NATO and other close battles and second jet only for the far north that has high speed
nice vid, but isn't it unrealistic, i mean the kuznetsov has no escorts. One kirov class battlecruiser would've been a major obstacle what if the kuznetsov had escorts and a kirov. It would be suicide.
Hi Splenid. Kuznetsov does not need escorts. It usually does have them, but does not need them. Kusnetsov is not like American Carriers. American Carriers are Offensive Carriers that require Aegis cruisers for defence. Kusnetsov is a defensive Carrier. It has its own Surface to Air missiles and point defence. Essentially, it is a missile cruiser with 40 jet fighters. The scenario where it would face an opponent alone is quite plausible. regards...Virtual
Actually this is an excellent series ever seen in my life. It was a stupidity decision made by the Canadian politicians. What if the program was carried on to the end , how Canada would have been today, may be a world super power too? Work hard guys to reinstall that beautiful bird. Instead of subtitle in the series why don't you put those words in sound? Why don't you put it in a real movie series? Watching from Tanzania🇹🇿🇹🇿
D-Day was June 6, 1944, not June 6, 1945.
Hi Colin, thanks for that. I am a little embarrassed we missed that. I will have to correct that with a caption online....regards....Virtaul
Sorry - just some info. Lots of misuse of apostrophes in here. The keys are: never use an apostrophe for plurals. or possessive for pronouns. It's = it is. Its = belonging to it. Backwards to normal use of apostrophe for possession.
Hi Adrian....yes, I know. It took me a while to get that straightened out. I still get it wrong once and I while, but thanks. I don't mind getting these critiques...regards....Virtual
Канада против России это как таракан против тапка//Canada against Russia is like a cockroach against a sneaker.
it is not nice to call your own country a sneaker, Komrade. Nekhorosho nazyvat' svoyu stranu krossovkami, Komrade.
@@Virtualenvirons Друг мой, это всего лишь ассоциация/My friend, this is just an association
Good to know, could you be a little clearer on "association" my friend.....regards.....Virtual
@@Virtualenvirons В данном смысле замена сложных функциональных форм на простые общепонятные формы, без искажения смысла. Если быть, не знаю есть такое выражение в английском, ассоциативный гротеск. / In this sense, replacing complex functional forms with simple, generally understandable forms, without distorting the meaning. If to be, I do not know there is such an expression in English, an associative grotesque.
You did not really clarify things more than you are Russian. Checked you channel, at least you had something on it, but unfortunately not enough to give you any credibility or the quality of being trusted and believed in. You are just defending your country which I can understand.....regards....Virtual
Even as a piece of fiction, would this be possible, that America would stand aside, if Trump were not president?
HI Sam. Well, if it wasn't for Trump, I might have changed the storyline, but he was the perfect President for this series. He always wants more in return for what he gives, so I used that, plus Putin has him by the
"short and curlies" for some reason. If you watched the whole series you can see how I use that.
But, this series is not about America, it is about the Arrow, it's abilities and it's demise and who killed it. regards....Virtual
9:49 and after kept the Russians out. see Mark Felton vid ua-cam.com/video/OWcRl7Q7pGs/v-deo.html