Lot of good info here! I cringe when I head bow techs say they can get a little more draw length thru the d loop. Set the draw to get a comfortable length, THEN set the d loop to get your draw arm alignment. Then I usually shoot half nfaa games and adjust my draw length or loop till I have a good feel from the start of a game till the last arrow.
Really good info, I like that you recognize that the majority have really simple questions that most people that have been around the sport for a long time, take for grant it that everyone’s knows
I'm really glad that you enjoyed it! I try to make sure that I keep a mixture of "Simple" and complex ideas in the videos so thank you for the encouragement! 🙂
🏹👍👍 I know there are so many that really don't have a clue to wether their setup is correct for them. We all see this at about any event where a new archer doesn't really know the what to feel that makes the bow fit them. Especially 3-d where there are very few stations where the ground is level. The points made in your video are super important when shooting angled ( up/down hill) shots. You people that are new to archery can learn a lot watching these videos.
All that you said is very true! But I will say that I've learned new things from some of the newest shooters, so I think that it is important to learn from each other and stay open minded 🙂 Thanks for the support and encouragement sir!
Excellent work, great explanations, I can imagine tumbling down the rabbit hole of each section but you covered it well, explained quick and simply and moved right along. Nicely done.
I think many of you more knowledgeable/skilled archers grossly over estimate the level of service normal or new people get at typical shops. "hows that feel" yep thats how I ended up with my first draw length on my $1200 new bow and they said only one loop length was "the right length". keep in mind I never even touched a compound bow prior to this so it was pretty much like asking a blind person how the color looked. Great video, would have cut months from my set up time. over the next year getting my skeletal structure lined up made me feel my DL was a bit long of and what started to feel best (DL wise/front) had a high or right pointing elbow (back half).. In the end after going up and down, adding 1/4 inch DL and a slightly longer loop made things click into place. (groups at 60 were cut in half, AND often much better than that with one or two crazy pilot error arrows.... clearly could see a group with mistake arrows around it vs randomly filling an 8 inch plus wide circle. *correct DL and D loop, in my case I am right handed and lengthening DL/slightly longer loop cured me of my nasty right paper tear.
I don't over estimate the lack of help at all my friend, I know, I visit shops and I see how they work. I do see it from a shop perspective as well though. It's hard to explain to someone how to set up a bow for them when they have 0 experience.. It takes a lot of time. But that is what they're there for. That's why I make these videos. there is a large group of people that want to know how to get better but don't really know where to go to get the information that they need.
Alright, Mr. Moss, you are so correct in this. I've been inclined to alter my DL and D-Loop once again! I'm down from 33 9/16th to 32 with a Tim Gillingham Loop! My anchor point is like yours, behind my jaw, not ON my jaw. After revisiting this, I noticed - because I wear glasses, my head was doing a few “funky” things causing me not to keep proper sight picture alignment while shooting. Soon (this or next week), I'll be heading to Shrewd and TruBall/Axcel (sponsors) to order new equipment before stopping at Boneyard Archery for a 2022 season field/target bow purchase. This will, of course, change my lens/clarifier setup - Which makes me grateful Clear Targets is also a sponsor - and alter my D-loop length. I'll need the six weeks of weekly Winter league to help me refine my muscle memory before Lancaster Classic and the Vegas shoot, followed by the ASA season. Thanks for the video! I'm make sure to recheck all other aspects of my setup. See you out there!
Wow you are up there! That's got to be a struggle! The longer loop is good for multiple reasons! My loop is 1 21/64th in length for a 30 1/8" draw length TRX8. so I know how it is to have that long of a loop length. People look at it like we are loosing speed but the accuracy that guys like us gain from setting up our equipment that way is pretty vital. IMO 🙂 Thanks for watching the video!
I think of it like this: Get the string to where you like it in my case and the standard textbook is corner mouth to lightly touching the hairs if your nose. At the same time having good form and alignment. Then adjust the Dloop Till you backhalf trap is low and relaxed, your hand there where you want it on the jaw. @AngusMoss_Archery what do you think about the george ryals thing with the big triangle space in the back arm at full draw because your back arm is pretty flat. Would be nice if you could respond.
I think that everybody has a different body and blanket stating the way your body should be set up at full draw to the extent of smaller details (i.e. triangle spaces, string through the corner of the mouth, etc.) Is never optimal. I do think that you should have some kind of two-point contact at anchor but what those two points are should be based on the way that you naturally pull against the pressure of the string (natural leverage the way I explained it in the video) to keep everything in as perfect of alignment as possible.
Excellent video! I find all too many people try to get better hand position and leverage off of DL instead of loop length. For me its backwards from what people typically do and set up. Further back usually allows more repeatable anchor and your rear shoulder to drop. Too far forward even with the correct draw length it will feel short! I always measure my loop lengths to so I know where to go if its not right!
Hey man! Just got a hoytt axius it goes to “30 draw and I measeired my arms 77 and a half divided by 2.5 is 31. Payed a lot for it has lots of upgrades but now I’m sick is there anyway I can shoot with it being “30 or anyway to get it to be longer?
There are a few options for you! #1 - shorter is always better than longer. So you may find that you like your draw length to be up to an inch shorter than what your wingspan measurement says.. so maybe shoot it for a couple months and see if you don't like it. My wingspan says I should be a half inch longer than what I shoot. #2 - there are ways to make your drawing longer on a bow. You have to sacrifice a little bit but you can always put some twists into your cables and that will increase your draw length. It's pretty common in the tournament World actually. Just don't go too crazy with it. The maximum amount of twist into cables is usually around 6 to 8 twists into each cable. Just note that if you do that the bow specs in other areas will change as well. Your draw weight will get heavier, your axle to axle will decrease, & and your brace height will increase. It's not a bad trade-off usually though. #3 - you can always make up a draw length shortage by using your loop length if you have to. I don't generally like that method because it messes up a lot of things.
Was wondering if you've ever tried torque tuning by sliding ur rest forward and back to find the most forgiving spot vs sight bar. Love your videos keep em coming
Hey! Yes I've tried that but I feel like the bow loses performance when I use the rest to torque tune. Using the sight allows you to achieve the same thing and keep your full brace height on the bow. You used to kinda be forced to use your rest to torque tune due to the lack of movement that a sight was capable of (non dovetail sights) and the lack of adjustability in peep sights to match scope housing diameter. I think that the only reason that folks still use their rest to torque tune is just because they have equipment like I mentioned above or they are just stuck in their ways. Thanks for watching the videos and let me know if you ever have any questions 🙂
My pin float isn't up and down or left and right. It's pretty steady but locks low no matter what. Is that a sign of incorrect DL or what. I hold steady as can be just under my target dot
That could be a nocking point issue or It could also be a timing issue, or It could be a mental issue. It could be a lot of things really but that's where I would start. Too low of a nocking point with a properly tuned bow can cuase the pin to want to hangout low if you don't supplement the set up with stabilizer weight and/or bow timing. Out of sync cam timing can cuase it if the bottom cam is hitting first. bottom first timing combined with a neutral or low nocking point makes a low sitting pin worse. With that said, if you like a low nocking point then a top cam first timing or adding leverage to your back bar stabilizer will supplement the hanging out low issue. If you like a bottom first cam timing then a slightly higher nocking point or adding leverage to your back bar will supplement your pin position. Same thing goes for if you like a lot of front bar weight.. a higher nocking point and/or top cam first will help pin position. It could be 100 other things also but that's a good place to start. I hope that helps, God Bless!
My brother just had a "run in" at the shop he bought his bow at. We watched him shoot and both of us told him his draw length was to short. Off to the pro shop he went. Asked for mods to 28.5. Guy basically asked him what his DL is. This crossing your arms and dividing by 2.5 minus your mother in laws waist size is a bunch of crap. No, seriously..it's a starting point. That's it. Pisses me off that the guy behind the counter said "but his DL is "27" and his arrows are dangerously behind the riser (he was speaking of a broadhead on the shaft, not a field point). I'm sure they're shops out there with coaches on board who would have set him up right in the first place but dammit man....who are these so called people working behind the counter? Not saying all of them BUT one would think a stand alone archery shop would at least listen, instead of debate, their customer. Great video, Angus. To the point and loaded with information. I believe my anchor is a bit short but arrows already cut. I may be able to bring the sight aft a bit for a longer DL (target/3D bow). I may also tweak my loop 1/8th and go from there as well. Cheers
Lot of good info here!
I cringe when I head bow techs say they can get a little more draw length thru the d loop. Set the draw to get a comfortable length, THEN set the d loop to get your draw arm alignment.
Then I usually shoot half nfaa games and adjust my draw length or loop till I have a good feel from the start of a game till the last arrow.
Totally agree!
Again Angus, feeds us archers with great info .... can't get enough of this.... ty Angus
No, thank you! 🙂
Really good info, I like that you recognize that the majority have really simple questions that most people that have been around the sport for a long time, take for grant it that everyone’s knows
I'm really glad that you enjoyed it! I try to make sure that I keep a mixture of "Simple" and complex ideas in the videos so thank you for the encouragement! 🙂
🏹👍👍 I know there are so many that really don't have a clue to wether their setup is correct for them. We all see this at about any event where a new archer doesn't really know the what to feel that makes the bow fit them. Especially 3-d where there are very few stations where the ground is level. The points made in your video are super important when shooting angled ( up/down hill) shots. You people that are new to archery can learn a lot watching these videos.
All that you said is very true! But I will say that I've learned new things from some of the newest shooters, so I think that it is important to learn from each other and stay open minded 🙂
Thanks for the support and encouragement sir!
Excellent work, great explanations, I can imagine tumbling down the rabbit hole of each section but you covered it well, explained quick and simply and moved right along. Nicely done.
Thank you, I really appreciate it!
🙂 Thanks for watching!
So glad I found your channel. I now have a new mentor 👍🏻
I'm glad you did too!! Well, I hope to help in any ways that I can!
I think many of you more knowledgeable/skilled archers grossly over estimate the level of service normal or new people get at typical shops. "hows that feel" yep thats how I ended up with my first draw length on my $1200 new bow and they said only one loop length was "the right length". keep in mind I never even touched a compound bow prior to this so it was pretty much like asking a blind person how the color looked. Great video, would have cut months from my set up time. over the next year getting my skeletal structure lined up made me feel my DL was a bit long of and what started to feel best (DL wise/front) had a high or right pointing elbow (back half).. In the end after going up and down, adding 1/4 inch DL and a slightly longer loop made things click into place. (groups at 60 were cut in half, AND often much better than that with one or two crazy pilot error arrows.... clearly could see a group with mistake arrows around it vs randomly filling an 8 inch plus wide circle. *correct DL and D loop, in my case I am right handed and lengthening DL/slightly longer loop cured me of my nasty right paper tear.
I don't over estimate the lack of help at all my friend, I know, I visit shops and I see how they work. I do see it from a shop perspective as well though. It's hard to explain to someone how to set up a bow for them when they have 0 experience.. It takes a lot of time. But that is what they're there for.
That's why I make these videos. there is a large group of people that want to know how to get better but don't really know where to go to get the information that they need.
Thanks for all your help.
My pleasure!
Alright, Mr. Moss, you are so correct in this. I've been inclined to alter my DL and D-Loop once again! I'm down from 33 9/16th to 32 with a Tim Gillingham Loop! My anchor point is like yours, behind my jaw, not ON my jaw. After revisiting this, I noticed - because I wear glasses, my head was doing a few “funky” things causing me not to keep proper sight picture alignment while shooting. Soon (this or next week), I'll be heading to Shrewd and TruBall/Axcel (sponsors) to order new equipment before stopping at Boneyard Archery for a 2022 season field/target bow purchase. This will, of course, change my lens/clarifier setup - Which makes me grateful Clear Targets is also a sponsor - and alter my D-loop length. I'll need the six weeks of weekly Winter league to help me refine my muscle memory before Lancaster Classic and the Vegas shoot, followed by the ASA season. Thanks for the video! I'm make sure to recheck all other aspects of my setup. See you out there!
Wow you are up there! That's got to be a struggle!
The longer loop is good for multiple reasons! My loop is 1 21/64th in length for a 30 1/8" draw length TRX8. so I know how it is to have that long of a loop length.
People look at it like we are loosing speed but the accuracy that guys like us gain from setting up our equipment that way is pretty vital. IMO 🙂
Thanks for watching the video!
I think of it like this:
Get the string to where you like it in my case and the standard textbook is corner mouth to lightly touching the hairs if your nose. At the same time having good form and alignment. Then adjust the Dloop Till you backhalf trap is low and relaxed, your hand there where you want it on the jaw.
@AngusMoss_Archery what do you think about the george ryals thing with the big triangle space in the back arm at full draw because your back arm is pretty flat. Would be nice if you could respond.
I think that everybody has a different body and blanket stating the way your body should be set up at full draw to the extent of smaller details (i.e. triangle spaces, string through the corner of the mouth, etc.) Is never optimal.
I do think that you should have some kind of two-point contact at anchor but what those two points are should be based on the way that you naturally pull against the pressure of the string (natural leverage the way I explained it in the video) to keep everything in as perfect of alignment as possible.
Excellent video! I find all too many people try to get better hand position and leverage off of DL instead of loop length. For me its backwards from what people typically do and set up. Further back usually allows more repeatable anchor and your rear shoulder to drop. Too far forward even with the correct draw length it will feel short! I always measure my loop lengths to so I know where to go if its not right!
That's all very true! 🙂
Great video Angus.
Thank you! I appreciate it!
Hey man! Just got a hoytt axius it goes to “30 draw and I measeired my arms 77 and a half divided by 2.5 is 31. Payed a lot for it has lots of upgrades but now I’m sick is there anyway I can shoot with it being “30 or anyway to get it to be longer?
There are a few options for you!
#1 - shorter is always better than longer. So you may find that you like your draw length to be up to an inch shorter than what your wingspan measurement says.. so maybe shoot it for a couple months and see if you don't like it. My wingspan says I should be a half inch longer than what I shoot.
#2 - there are ways to make your drawing longer on a bow. You have to sacrifice a little bit but you can always put some twists into your cables and that will increase your draw length. It's pretty common in the tournament World actually. Just don't go too crazy with it. The maximum amount of twist into cables is usually around 6 to 8 twists into each cable.
Just note that if you do that the bow specs in other areas will change as well. Your draw weight will get heavier, your axle to axle will decrease, & and your brace height will increase. It's not a bad trade-off usually though.
#3 - you can always make up a draw length shortage by using your loop length if you have to. I don't generally like that method because it messes up a lot of things.
Was wondering if you've ever tried torque tuning by sliding ur rest forward and back to find the most forgiving spot vs sight bar. Love your videos keep em coming
Hey! Yes I've tried that but I feel like the bow loses performance when I use the rest to torque tune. Using the sight allows you to achieve the same thing and keep your full brace height on the bow.
You used to kinda be forced to use your rest to torque tune due to the lack of movement that a sight was capable of (non dovetail sights) and the lack of adjustability in peep sights to match scope housing diameter.
I think that the only reason that folks still use their rest to torque tune is just because they have equipment like I mentioned above or they are just stuck in their ways.
Thanks for watching the videos and let me know if you ever have any questions 🙂
If you use a drop away it doesn't matter anymore right?
Good info Thanks
Thanks for watching! 🙂
I have my loops set high from center let’s me hold up on the target and it has steadied my hold
My pin float isn't up and down or left and right. It's pretty steady but locks low no matter what. Is that a sign of incorrect DL or what. I hold steady as can be just under my target dot
That could be a nocking point issue or It could also be a timing issue, or It could be a mental issue. It could be a lot of things really but that's where I would start.
Too low of a nocking point with a properly tuned bow can cuase the pin to want to hangout low if you don't supplement the set up with stabilizer weight and/or bow timing.
Out of sync cam timing can cuase it if the bottom cam is hitting first. bottom first timing combined with a neutral or low nocking point makes a low sitting pin worse.
With that said, if you like a low nocking point then a top cam first timing or adding leverage to your back bar stabilizer will supplement the hanging out low issue.
If you like a bottom first cam timing then a slightly higher nocking point or adding leverage to your back bar will supplement your pin position.
Same thing goes for if you like a lot of front bar weight.. a higher nocking point and/or top cam first will help pin position.
It could be 100 other things also but that's a good place to start.
I hope that helps,
God Bless!
@@AngusMoss_Archery wow yea that's alot. Looks like u got some tinkering to do. Thanks for all the info and a speedy reply.
@@raysimonds3927 no problem! I hope you get it lined out.
My brother just had a "run in" at the shop he bought his bow at. We watched him shoot and both of us told him his draw length was to short. Off to the pro shop he went. Asked for mods to 28.5. Guy basically asked him what his DL is. This crossing your arms and dividing by 2.5 minus your mother in laws waist size is a bunch of crap. No, seriously..it's a starting point. That's it. Pisses me off that the guy behind the counter said "but his DL is "27" and his arrows are dangerously behind the riser (he was speaking of a broadhead on the shaft, not a field point). I'm sure they're shops out there with coaches on board who would have set him up right in the first place but dammit man....who are these so called people working behind the counter? Not saying all of them BUT one would think a stand alone archery shop would at least listen, instead of debate, their customer. Great video, Angus. To the point and loaded with information. I believe my anchor is a bit short but arrows already cut. I may be able to bring the sight aft a bit for a longer DL (target/3D bow). I may also tweak my loop 1/8th and go from there as well. Cheers
I hear you man. Sorry ya'll had a hard time! Keep looking for a good shop and keep an open mind. You'll find a good place! And thanks man! God Bless!
@@AngusMoss_Archery...it's all good. Found our factory guy with a day off and dealt with the hired help. Lol. Wish I had a tool box full of mods