DON'T do this to your e-bike battery
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- Опубліковано 10 лют 2025
- In this episode I cover e bike battery care, especially those batteries that can't be removed for charging. L ion batteries are highly particular about how they are treated so unless you want to risk your expensive battery, you must follow these basic rules. How many have you already unwittingly broken? Whether it's a Ribble, Orbea, Scott, Specialised, Willier, Merida, Bianchi or one of the many brands using the Mahle X35 system, you will need to know this. And for those with removable batteries, do you know what charge level they should be stored at? The answers to this and more are here.
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I think the reason why the manufacturers recommend not leaving it connected to a charger for more than 5 (or 8) hours is hinted at in your own video at 8:30 - Doing so triggers a "rebalancing" of the cells. Occasional rebalancing is good for the battery pack, allowing individual cells that might otherwise be under-charged to receive a full charge. However, doing this routinely on every charge may be counter-productive and ultimately lead to premature failure of one or more cells. My advice would be to try to avoid leaving it connected for long periods but not to lose any sleep if it happens some of the time. I bought a simple plug-in countdown timer from Amazon which allows me to set it charging for 5 hours and know that it will then switch off (and STAY OFF) even if I don't go near it for several days afterwards.
This "rebalancing" is carefully managed in e.g. Battery Electric cars (and in many laptop computers), but they have onboard computer systems which don't fully switch off, unlike the relatively simple management circuitry on our e-bikes.
That’s a brilliant explanation, Roy. It all becomes clear now 👍
I, too, use a countdown timer. Mine can be set to ½, one, two or four hours, so that I can plug it in, and then make a judgment on how much charge time I should set, without "overcooking" the battery.
You shouldnt charge the battery constantly but you can "load" it a few hours over the recharge time. Using a Bosch powerpack 400. Driving also under 0 degree celsius because i put a neopren case around it. And the battery is stored always around 15 to 20c.
@@TheRoybeasley interesting, but surely the rebalancing feature is just part of a chip circuit and should not be a problem to include. The relatively simple external countdown timer could be included without too much issue?
I now cover my bike with blanket and duvet and got heater on with thermostat so try keep shed about 10c . I get about 40miles out of battery so trying do stuff to get it better going try 40t ring and take off 46/30 so spin more and try eco rather than red and trying to spin harder gear
Thanks Roy for the 'Engineering' section and the information it contains. I had only used the engine mapping aspect and hadn't seen the tempeerature or cycles 'small print'. Must check that out. As an update, I am now confident to ride out into hilly South Shropshire without the range extender knowing that if I can get halfway into the wind and on top of one of the hills, I can get home on 'Red'. This can be 60 miles or so. I do occasionally do a no power at all ride, just to remind me not to do it again! Still, a well researched video and very useful background info.
Brilliant Roy, at last someone explains exactly the use of the ebike battery. I have an Orbea gain, now 18 months old and Roy’s information has been great…thank you.
Hi Roy got a second hand gain all good ran the battery down to 20% I decided to charge battery the day before a ride and I was suprised to find it at 99% after only 3 hours. I turned it off at that, bit over careful maybe but didn’t have the confidence to leave on as didn’t want to mess up at the first hurdle. Thoughts Grant. Cheers
That does sound a bit fast. I must admit that I don’t look at the app from a charge point of view so can’t say what is normal. Can you remember what colour light was flashing on the IWoc? If it was 99% it should have been white.
@@RideWithRoy yes it was white tbh wasn’t sure leave it on for a couple more hours for all I know it may stay at 99% for a couple of hours. I did notice the battery went to 85% fairly quickly on the ride and then stabilised to what you would expect.
When saying it sounded a bit fast I wasn’t taking into account that it was starting from 20%. Personally, that wouldn’t worry me at all. If you are concerned you could make sure you’re around for the first few charges and check the battery temperature in the app. As it’s used, it would be worth connecting the app to check in the ‘engineering’ section, how many charges it’s had in its life. Bear in mind that partial charges, like the one mentioned, only count as part charges, so the life of the battery is often much longer than owners expect.
My 3 year old Orbea Gain started with the flashing error code, took it to the dealer, battery kaput, Orbea suggested a new battery @ £620 or a refurb battery (with 85% of a new battery capacity) for £280. I probably charged that battery approx 35 times, I keep the bike in the house, leave it between 60-70% when not using it and charge to 95% because I heard you get more cycles not taking it to 100%, that bike is babied and it still went down...I'm selling it when it returns
Can you take it to another X35 dealer? It could well be the notorious over voltage issue that just requires a firmware upgrade. If you connect the Mahle app it will show the precise number of FULL charges, which is likely to be less than your estimate. I would then send the dated image to Mahle customer service and state that the “product does not meet my reasonable expectations”. This covers you for six years after purchase but you have to prove their fault - which the image should do. If you need any help with this just let me know. Perhaps this is how the dealer gets refurbished batteries….
@@RideWithRoy excellent info Roy. The big problem I had was the app would not communicate with the bike so the bluetooth had gone down as part of the problem. The dealer managed to get limited communication through the dealer app but it seems there is a lot more to these battery systems than just storing a lot of electrons. The battery would charge, indicated through the iwoc but no power would go to the motor. However you are absolutely correct that the product does not meet my reasonable expectations
Even more reason to discuss with Mahle. Good luck and let us know how you get on, please.
thanks for this very imformative video Roy. The "10 deg C" info was something i never knew about. Also i appreciate your clear and relaxed presentation skills...are you a teacher 😊
Thanks Roy for your latest Video on battery management keep them coming delivery on my GCR Apr 2022
Hi there do you have a video of removing the battery for storage over the winter
Hi, Andrew. No, that’s not something I’ve considered as I use the bike all year round. I keep it in my garage alongside the internal wall but it still gets cold. I’m not concerned with it freezing, but as I said in the video, it shouldn’t be charged in low temperatures. Personally, I wouldn’t consider trying to remove the battery from the frame of a bike with an X35 system as I feel it unnecessary. Provided you put it away with around 80% charge it should be perfectly safe even in freezing conditions.
I ride all year, more in the spring and summer. I charge mine at 2 bars out of 5. I ride in 113° heat, no problem.
Nice vid here.. thank you. Very well explained and some nice tops and details given. I'm just getting used to my x35+ system so nice to have some good insight. Thanks again.
Li-ion cells like to be at half-charge and 25C. The further you depart from this, up or down, the lower the overall cycle life. In addition, low temperatures combined with high charge or discharge rates are harmful. High temperatures are far less damaging. It's all to do with lithium ion mobility through the cell materials, since it's a chemical storage device. Being careful with the cells can increase life by 10x so it's worth it.
Great summary. Another thing to add. If a person wants to prolong the life-span of their battery they can try within reasonable ability to keep the battery charge between 20% to 80%.
This is obviously mostly suitable for people who mainly ride for short to medium length trips, but it will prolong the lifespan of your battery substantially. You might get between 50% to 120% more cycles out of it. Lithium-Ion batteries have the best internal condition when it's around 50% charged. They don't like being at full or empty charge.
Thanks for that additional info 👍
Hi, would you advocate an occasional full charge as some people do or don't you think it's necessary. Cheers, rob
@@roberth9650 Yes, an occasional full charge is good for balancing out the individual cells in the battery.
@@roberth9650 And if you plan to store them for longer than a couple of weeks without use, I would juice them up to 80-100% before doing so.
Many thanks 👍
Thanks Roy for your great informative videos, I’ve recently bought a Ribble CGR AL e, mainly off the back of watching your series. Very happy with the bike, perfect commuter for the mountainous slopes of mid-Dorset!
Very good clarifications!.. nice to be able to confirm what i was understanding .. good vid, and thank you.
No doubt good video for newbies. Must say though, I have my battery for six years now, lots of Km's on it. I ride all year (say between -5C° and 30C°) and battery has no issues. Allways charge it fully after each ride after letting it sit for an hour or so. If winter prevents riding, I charge it every month to full and store it. No issues or worries what so ever.
That’s good to know, Patrick, because that’s what I was doing before I researched this.
Thanks for the excellent video Roy. I too have a Ribble CGR ALe (purchased after viewing your video on it) and a couple of months ago inadvertently left it on charge. I can't remember exactly how long it was charging but probably at least a couple of hours after it was charged fully. When I returned to the bike the Iwoc control light was flashing in a sort of pinkish/purple and there was no response at all to any attempt to get it to work at all. Therefore there was no assistance at all from the motor. I contacted Ribble and was told to leave the assistance switched on and once the battery drained back to 100% it would then behave as normal. It did in fact return to normal although it took quite a few hours and during those few hours I rang Ribble again to say it wasn't responding and they were going to get one of their mobile mechanics to call in. However as I say it did return to normal and I managed to cancel the mechanic's visit and avoid an unnecessary trip for Ribble. I have since carefully monitored the charging process to avoid a repeat of happening. Keep the videos coming as I and many others really enjoy them.
That’s interesting, I’ve never had that happen. I believe leaving the app connected will also drain it.
I had that too whichs says there no power cutoff once charged
Well done Roy, beautifully explained ! Subscribed! Just waiting for my Orbea Gain x20. Choked about the 15 mph uk limit. Greatly effects group rides, but hopefully I’ll be able to get up the hills.
Thanks! The group will envy you on the climbs 😀 Enjoy your new bike!
Really informative Roy, thanks. Ive just ordered a Ribble CGR e and am looking forward to the backwind after over 35 years of self propulsion!
You’ll love it, Simon.
Great video Roy, I’ve just ordered an orbea gain so this info has come in really handy, thank you and well done Roy😊
8:25 This is what is known as a Flush Charge and from what I've heard it is indeed damaging to the battery, though since it ameliorates another problem it is sometimes called for. The damage, like most battery degradation issues, is cumulative so doing it occasionally will result in negligible damage whereas doing so continuously and needlessly will reduce the cycle life of your battery.
Thanks for the information Roy, I found your channel when I was looking for an ebike. I have had a great 18 months with my bike but it is now back at Ribble after a total battery failure. Hopefully it will be fixed under warrantee. I should find out this week. I hadn't had any drop in range up until the total failure. I certainly wouldn't buy another one now that I know they are so delicate. Not being able to charge them to 100% and having to keep the bike in the house is a real pain. Your video will be very useful for all us existing owners and anyone looking to buy an e-bike with the X35 system.
That’s annoying, Howard. I hope they come through with warranty. I must say that’s the first total battery failure I’ve heard of - if it is the battery. One other owner told me their battery stopped working and their retailer couldn’t fix it. It turned out to just need a firmware update and was fine afterwards. I suspect that may be the case with yours as it seems odd that it should stop suddenly. With regard to the 100% charge, that’s only an issue if you are not using the bike for a while. Indeed, it should be charged to 100% at times, but just before you use it. If I’m riding it the next day I always charge to 100%. Bear in mind that all e bikes will have to be treated the same way, and not just the X35 system. I don’t think the X35 is delicate. In fact, I find it quite robust. I had some teething problems early on, but it has worked like a dream ever since. The only drawback is the fact that the battery can’t be removed for charging, but as I said in the video, that can be worked around in cold weather. I do hope Ribble cure the problem quickly and your faith is restored. Please let us know how they perform and what the problem was.
@@RideWithRoy Thanks Roy, Ribble just confirmed they have fixed it without charging although they think I ran it flat and stored it for a long period (I didn't). I don't need the assistance any more so I am selling it. Hopefully it will help someone else.
What size frame is it, Howard?
@@RideWithRoy It is a medium, had plenty of great rides :-)
@@RideWithRoy - A final update - I have fallen back in love with it! Fantastic 60KM on Friday, rode really hard on the way out on 30% then 100% when I realised I had a mad head headwind.
Thanks very much Roy, i have the Orbea Gain, i never knew about storing with the full charge, i will not do that again. Goodman.
My orbea gain lives in a Scottish garage which is freezing in winter. Not had any problem. I have cube emtb that lives in Spain. Due to Covid it sat unused for 22 months. It was fully charged as I thought I’d be back in three weeks. After 22 months it was still at 80% . Back in nicad days the quality of the charger was key, maybe it still is.
Great video Roy. Plenty of >40 Celsius days here. Really good analysis of the information out there which will be very useful for me. I’ll be using this to manage the way I charge. Thank you!
I ride a Specialized Creo and use the auxiliary battery ($400) which keeps my cycles down for the main battery. I ride about 200 miles mostly with aux bat so I charge the main bat about once every two weeks or every 5 to 7 rides averaging 25 to 45 miles. The math makes sense with the $400 aux bat vs the $5000 main bike bat.
As a footnote to this excellent article from Roy I would add a section aimed at those looking to purchase a first ebike. One important choice to make depends on where you will keep your ebike. If this is in an outside shed/garage with no heating and/or no power supply you probably should not choose an ebike that has an inbuilt battery which cannot easily be removed for charging/storing. You would be better to choose one that has an easily removed battery and then get into the habit of taking that indoors at the end of your ride for charging and storage, particularly in cooler climates where it can drop below 10°c overnight. Hope this helps. Note to retailers and suppliers - this advice ought to be discussed with your customers to help them make a sensible choice.
I couldn’t agree more. Sadly, I doubt if many retailers understand this themselves.
Good information luckily for me I knew all this from looking after my wife's ebikes from the early days of lead acid batteries, one tip I can give for bikes ridden all year round. Is to cover the batteries on those cold days remembering that the air will be colder due to wind speeds. There are neoprene covers available for external batteries, and I should think there will be some for down tube internal batteries, thanks again for your time in making your video's
Wind speeds doesn't make the air colder. It makes the air feel colder on skin, because it strips away the heat you radiate from your body, but no change in terms of temperature.
Thanks Roy very useful information.
Many thanks Roy - really useful and well researched article and really useful to me as a new owner of a Ribble ebike.
Is it okay to recharge a battery during a cafe stop? I've heard you shouldnt charge the battery straight after riding, you should let the battery 'rest' before putting it on a recharge. What are your thoughts?
You shouldn’t charge while the battery is hot but I would say if you don’t do it too often it should be okay. The best way to handle it is to turn off the motor and ride without power a mile or two before the cafe stop to allow the battery to cool.
Thanks Roy good information for us lazy people who don't read all the instructions
Good and informative. This gentleman rarely blinks…just sayin’.
I blink loads between takes 😂
If you store your battery at full charge couple of days won't make any damage indeed, problem is it's not just 2 days, are 2 now, 2 more later and so on so forth and at the end of the year battery will be stored at full charge for months, so best way to go is what you said later, charge it the night before you're going to ride and if you have an unforeseen ride don't panic and use your legs, this bikes are good without assistance 😅
Thankyou Roy for the good advice, I now need someone to show me how to use the app that I have down loaded on to my phone as I am not that clever!, it's all very new to me I'm afraid.🤔
Hi Roy many thanks for your video on Battery care. I realise that this video was sometime ago. But have a couple of questions/ comments if that okay. What’s your thoughts about leaving a battery for 2 months? Away in the Sun without the bikes. I contacted Ribble about this and they suggested that I could use a Smart Plug. Which I did and it worked okay. But whilst I can switch off the plug at anytime. The IWoc button stays illuminated and doesn’t switch off. I notice on your video that you show an electric Timer for charging through the night on cheap electric. Does your IWoc button stay on, or go off. And does this matter ?Thanks. Phil B
Thanks, Phil. I would have no problem leaving the battery at between 20% and 80% charge for two months. My iWoc stays illuminated with power connected but not with power disconnected. If your Woc is illuminated without power that doesn’t seem right as it will be consuming battery power. When riding, if I leave the power on it will turn off after being inactive for some time. If that doesn’t answer your question please don’t hesitate to come back to me.
@@RideWithRoy Thanks Roy. It’s answers my question. But I’ll go back to investigate why the button stay illuminated. Both the wife have ridden for years . But only just got the E-bikes . I don’t like things that preform differently . So will let you know. Thanks again . Phil
@@philbest4565 if you are unsure I suggest contacting Mahle direct. The email address is mahle.support@heloo.com. If you do and they don’t help just let me know.
@@RideWithRoy thanks again for this information , most appreciated .I’ll do that.
This was great advice Roy. Very well explained and easy to understand. Well done !
Good video. Full charging over the normal for couple of hours may be to recover any cells that need it. But occasionally as recommended limit the charge.
Most things aren't hard and fast but maximum useful life should be to limit charging time and temperature.
Don't think I would be allowed to charge the bike inside even with temperature so low in the garage.
Very wise, so many people charge their battery indoors, and also store the battery indoors, and some even charge their battery overnight, when they are in bed, they are putting their lives, and their families lives at risk, it amazes me, especially with all the E bike fires, and the warnings that are given about not doing these things,
Lesley Rudd, chief executive of Electrical Safety First, said that a fire caused by a battery bursting into flames is “unique” and requires “special measures”.
“The huge amount of energy that is released over time when a battery bursts into flames is unlike other fires - in a matter of minutes a room can be decimated,” So just use common sense when charging your battery, and stay safe. I would also check, in the unlikley event of a battery fire, that you are covered by your home insurance.
No, my battery is in the bike and that is not allowed inside 🙂
I think it worth backing up your comment with this official advice from the National Fire Chiefs Council, Robert. tinyurl.com/yw4wryez I must admit to not having a smoke sensor in the garage, but I’ll be getting one. I no longer charge overnight, although that is more for convenience that fire risk.
Thanks for sharing this very informative video. I have a Bianchi All road Inpulso as featured in the background during your video, it also uses this Mahle system, but the battery has completely died after 12mts !! Have u heard of anyone else experiencing the same problem?
Yes, Sean, I have, and it’s rarely the battery that has failed. It’s likely that it’s a firmware problem. If that’s the case, it will need to be handled by a dealer that has the necessary cable interface. Mahle tell me that any X35 equipped dealer can do this for you, so maybe there will be someone local to you. If you don’t get any help from your supplier, then get in touch with Mahle customer services, who are usually very helpful.
Hi Roy, I had been a bit concerned about winter storage and asked in shop, manager suggested covering down tube in an old blanket, my 2 previous E bikes had removable batteries so kept them in house
You kept them in your home, that’s the last place I would keep them
Greatly appreciate your treatise on e bike battery care and also the comments and opinions of your subscribers and watchers. I heve just got an e bike after a lot of dithering to use in place of the car whenever possible and when I don't feel like riding my normal bike. Re instruction manuals, especially online ones which seem to be the norm now, for some reason they don't use the sevice of proof readers. Not only is the grammar appaling but the information is made incorrect by not being proof read...by someone who understands the subject.
Just one query, are the battery checking apps specific to the battery brand or are the apps that can be used on any batteries for e bikes?
Thank you. As far as I know the apps are specific to the motor manufacturer. So any brand of bike fitted with a Mahle motor will use their app.
Awesome! Nice looking studio. Very professional video overall. Great work.
Thank Matthias. I thought I’d use a more interesting background for a change 🙂
@@RideWithRoy mission accomplished 👍. Take care buddy!
My Orbea gain D10 which I bought secondhand , 3 year old , achieved 70 miles on my first trial run in July, running on the lowest power without switching off.
But the cold weather as reduced considerably the mileage in the cold conditions.
I estimate that I average between 40 -60 depending on the route I take.
My last ride a few weeks ago was over 3000 mtrs climbing , but ran out of power at 33 miles on the last climb , waddington fell , trough of bowland , turn at top to the inn at whitewell and over old hall hill opposite the pub.
I was knackered pushing the heavy bike half way up hall hill.
I do this ride in the warm and get home with plenty left in the battery.
Not sure yet which way forward I go from here, but the bike is in the bedroom now , waiting for it to warm up.
The whoosh evbike retrofit kit manual on the web gave interesting advice. Ties in with what Roy has found out.
I hope to have Ribble ebike for my birthday.
I looked up the orbea D10 and apparently 13kg. Not the heaviest of bikes. As said elsewhere the extender battery may help and costs £550 or so new
Wooly Chewbakker not really Keith !, I need to sort out what the existing battery's condition before I even think about paying £550 for another battery .
If I can get 40 - 50 miles on a charge it suits my level of cycling due to my disabilities, I swim my age nearly every day 73 lengths then a 30 mile ride on most days & a bit in the gym during winter .
But since I bought the e -bike , I am venturing over the big hills & I love it, I haven't ventured out lately because it's to cold
If it's ok to-morrow I will go on my Ribble with the triple on.
Thanks for the reply.
Keith Gladman Hi Keith . I weighed me and the Orbea with everything on , mudguards , lights , spares , tools , pump , the total weight for me and the bike was 206 lbs in old money .
The Orbea is dangerous to decent on climbs that have t junctions etc at the bottom , I comedown very gingerly.
But when I am on my dogma I am fearless like most, that's the only thing that I slag the Orbea off, deffinetley no group riding while I'm on the e-bike, don't get me wrong it is a fantastic bike for a ageing old get like me ?.
@@cyclingdoglucy3299 my present old bike is about 15 kg. . Am 67 with artificial hip and a bit of arthritis. I hope the Ribble ebike will take to pastures new without so much pain.
Brilliant Roy Subscribed!
Thanks and welcome, Roger.
Hi Roy, thanks for the videos. I've recently bought an Orbea gain and there is a curious note in the literature that says it's obligatory to connect the charger to the switched on mains before connecting to the bike and vice versa when disconnecting. Do you know the reason for this and what happens if you have a timer set so the power is off before you disconnect. Thanks, rob
Thanks, Robert, this has come up before. Clearly, you should follow the manufacturers instructions, but I can tell you I always connect everything up before switching on the charger and have suffered no obvious Ill effects. It makes more sense for the connection to be fully secure before introducing current, so their instruction seems counter intuitive. Reading Mahle’s charging procedure it would seem this has something to do with the short circuit warning. If the charger is switched on first, the green power light will glow. If there is a short circuit detected when it is attached to the bike the light will go out. If you connect the bike first and there is a short detected, the light won’t come on. Either way you have a short. I’ve been connecting the charger before switching on the power ever since I’ve had the bike and it works just fine 😀
@@RideWithRoy Thanks very much for the clear explanation 👍
Hi Roy. Quick question on the 500 charge cycles. Can the battery on the Ribble ultimately be replaced?
Yes, Mark, it can. They say it’s a dealer job, which means any dealer handling X35, not just Ribble. However, having had a look, it is something I would happily do myself. The battery is accessed by a screwed on plate at the base of the tube, so should be easily removed. It’s worth reiterating that only full charges count as a charge cycle, so it will take longer than I expected to reach that total.
@@RideWithRoy Thanks Roy. My brother has one due for delivery next week so I’ll try that and then take your advice about a visit to Ribble to check fit, etc. I’m used to riding bikes with the Bosch system (Cube and Trek) so I know this will not have the “put a grin on your face” turbo hill-climbing power. But hopefully will be more versatile overall. And cheaper.
I think you will still have the e grin, Mark. What it loses in power it gains in lighter weight. My brother has a Bosch powered Cube and finds it heavy and difficult to ride without power. Let us know what you think when you try it.
@@RideWithRoy Thanks Roy. This sounds like the right option. I did buy a Trek Powerfly 4 but returned it when the dealer was unable to remedy the very strange noises that it was making. I bought a slightly used Powerfly 5 that my partner and my daughter share depending on which weekend it is lol. That’s fine but I was worried about putting both Treks on the cycle rack (got a tow bar). Final question for now. You mention the 105 group set. Will that give a significant advantage over the basic 1 x 11? I wouldn’t know how to choose the config but I guess the shop will help me.
I am not very well up on drive train ratios, Mark. I chose the 105 as 80% of my riding is on road. A friend has a 1x and while better on climbs, is less good at keeping up on the flat. However, I suspect that depends on the ratio of the 1x setup you go for. Best to tell the dealer what type of riding you do and let them advise.
Hi Roy .Very useful videos , thank you. I am struggling to find where you can access the status charge level of the ranger extender battery ? (Ribble/ Mahle) Can you advise please ?
I don’t use the app myself so I may have missed something, but I don’t think there is any range information for the range extender. I believe that once the range extender is empty, useful range information/charge level will be available for the main battery
I forgot to say that the range extender does have the same traffic light charge indicator lights as on the main battery.
Thanks
Well done! WTF there isn't a "smart" charger for these things is beyond belief! How hard would it be for them to make one that you simply connect to the bike in storage and it maintains the battery in optimum condition for as long as it's in storage? I'm facing taking my wife's Bianchi E-Impulso battery out (after removing the crank/BB Grrrr!) so she can leave it for months, shipping the f--king battery home where we can (I hope) maintain it, then re-install and re-assemble the whole thing when we go back to where the bike is in storage. Meanwhile she rides an identical one at home...but of course you can't fly these things in airplanes so it's either have more than one or ship/drive one to wherever she wants to ride. A "smart" charger would so easily solve this problem! Any news or ideas on this? I hate to gamble the cost of a new battery by charging the thing to 80% and crossing my fingers the battery will still hold a charge and work after being in-storage for months.
I can’t offer any ideas on that, Larry, but I do know that in the UK it’s impossible to find a shipping company that will transport a Lithium battery for a private individual.
@@RideWithRoy Wow, I thought I'd just pack it up and ship it...same as the LBS did with the bike(s) we bought with these batteries in their downtubes. Do you have a part # for the Panasonic battery? I'll look it up, print 'em out and take 'em down to my shipping guy and see what they say. Much better to know this BEFORE taking the damn thing apart, thanks!
I’m afraid I don’t but if you look on the Mahle site it may have it there. Good luck with the shipping.
The alternative is to ask your LBS to ship it for you. However, I asked Ribble for some help with this and was totally ignored.
Yes indeed, a smart charger combined witha simple heating system pre mounted around the battery. (Just some heating wires) Just plug it in and will take care of optimal charging and temperature. Shouldn't be hard to do or very expensive.
How’s the rubble e bike.. or any ebike fare in the winter months. What’s the performance like in the really cold temps
I have the Orbea gain with the same ebike motion system, three years old. It’s fine in cold temperatures, No really noticeable difference which I’m quite surprised about, compared to e cars. I guess we don’t have heated saddles and seats as yet!!
I strongly suggest you just get out and ride your bike. As Roy suggests it seems with such mixed manufacturers instructions it can seem complicated, but really it’s not
I’ve noticed this Winter Battery doesn’t hold charge as long. I’ve made the mistake of charging bike about an hour after my ride, then noticed if I top it up a week later just before a ride it takes probably 30 minutes to reach full again. I need to re install the app to check levels, I uninstalled it as found it very poor regarding the navigation and ride record side of it.
@@martinbywater I don’t actually have an e bike. But considering it. I prefer a normal bike…. But ebike would be good for comute
I prefer my unpowered bike but e is great for those days you have to ride but don’t feel like it.
I have to say the Ebikemotion is an excellent bike and the system works very well. The furthest I’ve been on it is 50 miles, and probably only used 60% on the lowest setting.
Hi,
I have a question. What's the best way to charge the batteries, for the batteries' health?
To charge separately the integrated bike battery and the extender battery?
Or to charge them in tandem, to charge all the system through the extender battery?
Thank you for all your good information!
Thanks for the question. I believe either is acceptable according to Mahle. However, I have found that when charging in tandem I’ve experienced an over voltage fault on the range extender, so always charge independently now. It also gives more control of how much you want to charge by.
@@RideWithRoy ,Thank you so much for your answer. Very good videos. All the best!
Thanks Roy for this useful information. I recently purchased an ORBEA Gain 50 for the purpose of learning and drawing conclusions about assisted road bikes. I have practiced road cycling for many years but I am already 68 years old and even though I ride about 7000km a year, I have lost power in my legs. I normally use a full carbon BMC bike that weighs only 8Kg and my weight is 56Kg. Considering that the ORBEA weighs 15kg, I am doing assist mapping tests to only receive power to compensate for the 7kg of extra weight and also 60w to compensate for my age. The rest is up to me. For now I have been testing for a month, 12 rides, for a total of almost 600km. I would like to know if you or anyone else has experienced mapping power assistance this way. Thanks
I haven’t, Antonio, but I’m sure someone else here will have. It sounds interesting.
Great help
Thank you for an excellent video Roy, an important subject well explained. I have a 6 month old Ribble Hybrid ALe which I love. However, with all three assist levels left as the bike was supplied at 100%, the predicted range was 40 miles. I queried this with Ribble who told me this was normal and I would need to reduce all three assistance levels to 30% to increase the range to the advertised range of 60 miles. This I did and the predicted range with a 100% charge only increased to 42 miles? Ribble are unable to explain this and naturally it’s a bit worrying. I would say however that the bike performs better than the predicted mileage suggests. I’ve followed your advice on charging from day one so if you get a minute, any thoughts you have would be most welcome.
Thanks, John. There are several variables that will reduce range, including weight, terrain and, most importantly, how much effort the rider puts in. If I use power throughout the ride, including a couple of hills at full power, I would expect around 40 miles. The day I managed 100 miles from one charge, on a heavily laden GCGR Al e, it was a fairly flat route so I powered the bike myself for much of the time. I never bother with adjusting the power levels through the app and leave them all on 100%. I have no idea how the app’s range calculation works but it does seem pointless as it can’t know what you plan to ride. So in conclusion, your hybrid appears to be working perfectly if you are using power for all of the 40 miles. Bear in mind that the X35 system is e assist as opposed to a much heavier e bike that does all the work. The fact that the bike is light enough to ride without power removes the range anxiety associated with heavy e bikes and enables us to improve fitness as we ride. The only thing at fault here seems to be Ribble’s poor advice. I hope that helps, John and you enjoy your lovely bike.
Range indicator is no good really if on full power you may get 30 to 40miles i also did 43miles on med and low and still had 65% when got home.
Very good info, thanks!!
Another informative video Roy. Thanks
Hi Roy, a fairly recent subscriber catching up on your videos and just watched this one. I am looking to purchase a used Orbea Gain e-bike. The owner said the battery was charged to 80% and she wanted to top it up for me. But when she charged it she got an error message on the app saying ‘cell over voltage’. Should I not buy it now?
Hi, Gary. This is a common issue and one that can be cured with a simple firmware update. The rub is that the update requires special cables that only a dealer is supplied with. However, any dealer handling the Mahle X35 system, regardless of make of bike, should be able to do it. They usually charge about £25 in the UK so a discount would be in order or ask the lady to get it done. Mine has the same issue and it’s just the system protecting itself. I find that a quick burst of the motor clears it, or leaving the app connected will also bring it down to an acceptable voltage. This might only be an intermittent fault code, which is suggested by the lady offering to top up the charge and being surprised. Of much more importance is the number of charge cycles the battery has undergone. This can be determined by asking her to connect the app and look at charge cycles in the engineering page. Manufacturers state 500 full charge/discharge cycles are to be expected before the battery starts to degrade. As a full charge can include several partial charges, the number may not be very high. So I would be wary of anything with 200 or more charges unless you factor in a replacement battery. My guess is that you’ll find the number to be less than 100.
@@RideWithRoy great advice, thanks Roy!!
New to e- biking, I have a ten day old bike with x35mahle/iwoc and have the pink flashing led and a 193 error code(cell over voltage)after charging.Do I persevere with a few more charge cycles or send the bike straight back under warranty? TIA...
That’s the pink light of doom, Jonathan 😀. Yes, definitely send it back. It’s most likely needing a simple firmware update but that’s a dealer job as only they have the special cables. Any X35 dealer can do it but as it’s warranty let the supplier decide what to do. I had the same problem initially but once updated it has worked perfectly
@@RideWithRoy on its way, many thanks.. 🙏
Glad to help. Let us know how it goes.
Once the battery has come to the end of its life, can they be changed for new ones? Via a shop or manufacturer if it’s not something that can be done at home?
It can be changed and is David d to be a dealer job. However, I've had a good look and it does seem like something I would be happy to try at home. Battery is accessed by a cover at the bottom of the frame and I imagine it will just be a case of unplug/plug.
@@RideWithRoy hi Roy, thanks for the reply. As you seem to have experience with this system, maybe I can pick your brains… I have a 14 mile commute to work, basically flat along quiet roads and mostly cycle path. I am considering an Orbea Vibe, but fear that unless there is a strong headwind/bad weather I won’t get much use out of it, as I manage to average around 23km/h at the moment, which takes into account my average speed plus junctions etc that I navigate. So I think my average moving speed is a few km higher than the 25km/h the motor would assist with…. Or do you think I would still get some benefit from the X35 system?
It doesn’t sound like you need it, Mat. The only benefit would be on days that you don’t feel up to the ride, or after a hard day at work. If you can currently cope with that I would stay as you are. Even though I’m 69, I ride my non powered bikes as much as possible. However, there are days I just don’t feel up to it so that’s when the X35 helps.
@@RideWithRoy I fear you might be right Roy! Many thanks for your helpful advice 👍
Great stuff Roy! You have the same bike as me so I'm interested in your articles. My wife also has a Ribble with the same X35 system and at the moment I'm trying to work out why we have such a huge discrepancy in our power usage on the same ride. I'm eeking out 90+ miles on a charge and she'll be getting less that 30! We do use the assist very differently but the discrepancy is large and I'm wondering if get battery isn't healthy. Going to do some comparison tests.
Thanks, Derek. There are many variables that will affect distance per charge on the X35. These include overall weight of bike and rider, how much effort the rider puts in, the size of the rider causing drag into wind and tyre pressures, to name a few. I think this is a case where the Ebikemotion app is your friend. You will be able to check that the battery is fully charged and look at what distance the app is estimating. If possible, you could try riding your wife’s bike, to see if you get more out of it. If I use power all of the time and put in some hills I recon to get 40 miles. If you check my Range Extender video you will see that I got over 100 miles on the internal battery with a heavily laden bike - it just depends on how I’m feeling on the day. Let’s us know how you get on with the tests.
@@RideWithRoy I just forced my wife (!) to ride alongside me for 30 miles using the same lowest assist level (there really weren't any hills) continuously and there was hardly any difference between them so I'm convinced there's nothing wrong with her battery, just the different way she uses it. I'm going to get her a range extender. Keep up the good work.
That’s good to know, Derek.
I have 3 e-bikes and am fortunate to be retired so have the opportunity to ride a lot. After every ride I plug them in straight away to ensure they are fully charged ready to go whenever I need them. My oldest e-bike (Gen3 Bosch with 500w internal battery) has done many 1000's of miles (it was my only bike for the first year of getting back into riding) and I've noticed no change in performance over that time period. Once the bike is powered up it turns itself off and sometimes is left plugged in for days nowadays as I may choose to ride my Gen4 mountain bike (1 year old now) or my Fazua powered Boardman. I do the same with the mountain bike (leave it plugged in) but do take the Fazua battery from my Boardman gravel bike off charge as its easier to do being in the house). The only change I notice in battery performance is when riding in the cold where I get less miles (but not a loss less). To be honest I'll be happy if I get anymore than 5 years out of a battery as technology is moving on and I would probably replace anyway (graphine batteries, lithium metal batteries etc.)
I can’t really see a problem with leaving a modern charger connected. I think a lot of this is backside covering by battery manufacturers who don’t know the type of charger that will be used. I do understand that the low temperature charging thing is a danger, but as you charge immediately after a ride the battery will still be be warm. Others have said that Li cells don’t like being fully charged, but you seem to be doing okay.
Hi Roy, I would be interested in your thoughts on a response I’ve had to a total battery failure on my Orbea Gain . The bike is 6 moths old and covered 500 miles before the battery failed. The bike was returned to the dealers under warranty and they have just informed me that the battery appears to have never been fully charged and therefore has been damaged and not covered by warranty, they are quoting me £650 for a new one, the battery has been fully charged so it looks like someone is trying to wriggle out of a valid claim.
That sounds like absolute nonsense, Peter. The advice is not to store the battery fully charged, and my understanding is that charging to less than full is protective of the battery. I would strongly suggest that you go straight to Mahle customer service and bypass the dealer. The email is mahle.support@heloo.com Please let us know how you get on.
@@RideWithRoy Thanks for the quick response Roy, that’s exactly what I thought, the dealers (Leisure Lakes ) buyer is currently in talks with Orbea
I’ve also messaged my contact in Mahle. He isn’t directly involved but I’ve told him that you will be in contact with them. Ideally, they will have their person who deals with Orbea intervene. They could well ask you to connect the app so they can interrogate the system.
@@RideWithRoy Thanks again Roy, my bike is 30 miles away at the dealer and they couldn’t get the app to connect due to the total lack of charge in the battery, I’m waiting to see what response their buyer gets before I take it any further, especially as it’s only 6 months old , I may even look at full refund if the bike is not fit for purpose as my contract is with the supplier not the manufacturer, although that would be a last resort
@@peterg7489 👍
One note on charging with timers..don't the X35 folks tell you NOT to plug the charger into the bike before plugging it into the power? Setting it up to turn off after 4-5 hours is one thing, but setting one up to maintain a battery in-storage might be a different issue?
They do, but that seems counter intuitive. I was always told to plug a device in first and then the power.
@@RideWithRoy Me too, that's why I mentioned it. But why do they warn against it then?
I think there’s some backside covering going on but that leads to conflicting advice.
Very interesting article Roy, thanks. My last ride was a disaster in that my iwok app was not displaying any maps for whatever reason so I had to Download the latest map on the go..ran out of storage and connection to Tesco server! So gave up p’d off and went home after doing about three miles! The downside to this is that my ebike and extender are nearly fully charged still and am not planning on riding outside until Feb/March. The bike has been inside ever since in a warm environment but how can I discharge the batteries in order to get down to suggested 50% levels..appreciate any ideas..Keith
That’s why I don’t bother with the app, Keith. Garmin or Wahoo best for nav. I did read somewhere that leaving the app connected will discharge the battery. I have no idea how long it will take but worth a try. And I’m sure 80% will be enough. Alternatively, the while the weather is mild get out and enjoy it.
@@RideWithRoy
The reason I use the app is to see what mode I am in and battery usage. I don’t use it for navigation, my 1030 is perfect for that and ride stats for Strava👍 my bike is permanently on my trainer now so back wheel detached so not sure whether the app will work without the wheel, will experiment🤨 thanks again..K
It was this note in the Raleigh manual that hints at the app discharge.
2. Discharge the battery by 5% (connecting the lights or keeping the Dealer APP connected).
Although they mention ‘dealer’ app the end user one should do the same, I would have thought. I also wouldn’t think the motor needs to be connected.
Hi Roy..I have just finished discharging the main battery (5 days connected to the app!) got it down to 24%. So connected Extender to charge it up a bit, now both at around 50%. Will that be suitable for storage? Whilst using the new iWok app it displays both battery percentages so very useful. A slow process but I feel a bit happier about it.
I would say perfect 👍
And good to know the app discharge does work - eventually 😀
So it's ok to discharge your battery if it's -70°C?
Would you be riding at -70C?
@@RideWithRoy . It would be a cold day in hell when I do that. But why wouldn't they just say below 0 or -10. They have to add -60. Like it's ok bellow -60?
Only they know the answer to that one. What I do know is that the battery discharges much more quickly the colder it gets.
Heh, all my rechargeable batteries are in RC toys/shavers/phones. But I am considering getting an E-MTB.
I am hoping that the news about bikes catching fire is not something to worry about given the name of Ribble… Apparently cheap e bikes do not have to follow strict safety codes!!!!!
I don’t want to tempt fate but I’ve never heard of a Mahle system catching fire, and it’s used over a range of brands. I thinks it’s the unrestricted and illegal brands that can be dangerous - as are their riders.
Sorry. I don't understand.
2:50 "Between MINUS 15°C and 50°C.." for *NOT* discharging a bike battery, covers every temperature that would ever pertain when riding a bike, and THEN some! Thus making the battery completely useless.
This makes no sense at all. Please explain.
That was my point, it doesn’t make sense and makes the battery useless. I was just reporting what the manufacturers states. However, you will recall that I went on to explain that discharge temperature will NOT harm the battery, but will reduce the output. I think it’s a case of manufacturers covering themselves. What will cause a reduction if battery life is CHARGING at cold temperatures.
@Ride With Roy So the instructions are rubbish, and/or have been mistranslated, maybe?
It happens that I always bring my Bosch battery indoors for charging at room temperature (20°C) and wait till it's cooler than 25°C during any heatwaves... as Bosch suggest.
I don't worry about the temperature when discharging in use. If it is very cold, I won't be out on a bike! (aged 75)
That applies to me re the cold, but people do commute, so it’s good cold doesn’t damage the cells. I think the problem with the instructions is that each supplier has added their own extra safety margins which cumulatively creates a nonsense. I know that Mahle people have seen this video so hopefully they will create some uniformity.
Brilliant stuff !
Off work after a bike crash! Rewatched and excellent advice....cheers
@mattvwt25 really sorry to hear that. I hope your injuries heal soon!
@@RideWithRoy me too Roy.
Didn't expect to be commuting at 8 am Monday morning to be told at 11 am you weren't allowed out of hospital until a complete hip replacement operation had been done.
4 weeks later I can walk with crutches and stand without them.
NHS is amazing
@mattvwt25 you ever know what’s around that proverbial corner. Sounds like you’re doing well, but please keep us all posted.
Interesting video, bicycle maintenace has become rocket science.🙄.
My advice for what it's worth would be to charge to 100% when you need the range, otherwise leave it at 80% max + try not to run it down to zero leave a bit in reserve if possible; same goes for your mobile & laptop.
Spot on, Pete, that’s what I do.
@@RideWithRoy Great >said to double battery life expectancy.
Some days I charge it to 100% overnight then if the weather turns bad suddenly the next day I'm left with a 100% battery sitting.
So I usually try to run my bike up the steep hill 5-10 times behind our house to run down the charge a little.
My neighbors must think I'm weird.
@@TheAgentAssassin Don't worry mine already think I'm weird but for other reasons :) Your battery will look after you in the long run! Do you have integral lights they could be switched on to run the battery down a bit?
Yeah if the bsttery is not used a long time it should be stored between 20 to 80 %. My powerpack 400 is now 5 years old but still performing with nearly the same capacity. I have just used the ebike around >5000km.
I’d listen to Panasonic the would of done the most homework
The colder the temp the faster the battery discharges. This means that you will end up charging the battery more thus reducing the overall lifespan of the battery.
Charging in cold will reduce battery storage, reduce performance and shorten the battery lifespan..
Charging over 80°F can increase battery storage and give greater performance; however the downside with this is that it will reduce the lifespan of your battery.
Lithium-ion batteries can be left on charge indefinitely, providing the charger is designed for this.. most bike charges aren’t because that tech costs more.
For prolonged storage the battery should be around the 30%-40% mark and ideally in conditions no less than 10°C or 50°F.
Rob Stanley. Sounds clear advice. At the moment somewhere about 13-14 centigrade. But was cycling 5-6 centigrade ambient but wind-chill took close to zero.
I wonder if an insulating jacket would help battery life. I'm unlikely to cycle below this.