I always loved the theory that the reason the NX-01 Enterprise looks the way it does is because Zefram Cochrane based it off the NCC-1701E Enterprise as seen through a telescope
Speaking of star trek disabilities. The person that made me realize people like me could be in the federation was Barclay. As a kid watching him be anxiety filled and finding odd ways to cope really hit me like, "Mom, Dad, look at Barclay, I have that! Im nervous and weird too, he's like me". And my parents took me to doctors and therapists after I pointed Barclay out to them.
Barclay was by far my favorite TNG character. He came across to me as the most realistic character, and showed that people like him (me) can contribute despite social anxieties. I'm also extremely fond of Tilly. She reminds me of my little sister.
Barclay is definitely one of my favorite characters for the same reason. I saw him when I was young and I was like, I love Picard and Data but here is someone who isn’t infallible. Picard is a very well-rounded and real person... and of course he became more fallible as time went on. But with Barclay, it showed that social anxiety, depression, etc is still a thing in the 24th century.
As an Autistic person I feel I have to reject the comparison to characters like Spock, Odo and especially Data. The thing they all have in common is their detached relationship to emotions. And, as an Autistic person, I can assure you (in the general sense) I definitely have emotions, I feel and experience them fully. I've always found the connection to Data, especially, kind of insulting. I'm not an emotionless robot seeking to one day be "fully human". I actually find Seven of Nine to be a better fit for an Autistic analogue, at least before Tilly came around.
The problem is that autism covers such a wide range of different symptoms and presentations, people tend to kind of apply one definition to all people with autism. Assumptions about someone's health and well being are never a good idea.
Valid point! Autistic people are often treated as a stereotype/hive-mind, as if one autistic person were interchangeable with any other autistic person. There are as many ways to be autistic as there are autistic individuals, and Data literally being a robot incapable of emotion plays into one of the most damaging stereotypes about autistic people! Maybe Jessie Gender (a brilliant TrekTuber who is also autistic) should do a second part of her "The Problem with Allegory" video, this time focussing on neurodivergency rather than gender identity/sexaulity...
One depiction of autism that I really liked was the episode with the 4 genetically engineered people, because it felt like the writers talked to autistic people to depict them, and it's all summed up in, what I consider to be an important detail that could easily get glossed over, the high pitched noise that they all hear, as well as Bashir. No one else hears it, but they do, and I've experienced that, hearing the electricity, or other sounds, and it made it feel more real for me.
As a disabled person I always loved Odo. He knows that he was born differently and that he can do things that others can't and vice versa and he doesn't give a damn. Comparing that to Data who knew that he stood out and always longed to be human, Data was probably the person I was when I was growing up, but Odo is the kind of person I became.
Also the bit where he grew up in a lab, and his first parental figure was a scientist trying to study him (and being implicitly sort of abusive)... that tracks with "disabled" imho
I didn't really like Odo as a kid, despite the many ways I'm actually a lot like him. Then I got old & sick of everyone's nonsense, got talked into rewatching DS9, and now he's my favorite character in the franchise. He may be a cop, but he's actually the ideal cop. Not PERFECT, but ideal - everyone respected him, everyone trusted him, because everyone knew that he only cared about justice & didn't take sides. I don't think it's at all fair to apply current discourse about policing to a character who's more than twenty years out of date.
I don't know that Odo "doesn't care". He clearly struggles with a sense of belonging, he just puts on a front to mask it (which itself is something many of us in the disabled community go through at one time or another.)
As with so much else, Lwaxana Troi's best (arguably only good) appearance was on DS9. The brief relationship between her and Odo was genuinely touching, especially when they're trapped in the turbolift and they both finally put down their defensive affectations and reveal their vulnerabilities to one another.
I recently watched that episode for the first time. It was sooooo awkward up to that point, with Odo clearly being very uncomfortable with Lwaxana's sexual advances, and Sisko disappointingly just laughing him off and suggesting he just "let her catch you". Ugh. But being trapped in the elevator together was a positive direction for the episode - forcing both characters to drop their pretenses, allowing Odo to be vulnerable and be helped, and giving Lwaxana's motherly side a chance to shine.
It’s not even that the “racial traits” depicted are just cultural norms, but that they are cultural norms of the aristocracy of the culture in question. In most of Star Trek, we are seeing the ruling classes. We don’t see ordinary Klingon janitors, accountants, farmers, and shopkeepers; we see the dominant culture of the ruling class. Same with the Ferengi and the Federation (and most of the minor species we get to see).
Exactly, I've said this often of the 'planet of the hats' trope. The representative 'hat' of a culture is usually curbed by who we meet from that culture. Now in truth is it is a writing handicap but one I don't fault writers too heavily for when it comes to one off alien races for the plot while turning out a weekly series. So 'Warrior planet', 'commerce planet', etc etc is a shortcut. But I find whenever we have long term exposure to a culture or race we start to see variants of this. That while there is a ruling cast that greatly represents certain traits and values strongly, there's also regular workers, people on farms, people with the general jobs of society. And they may not represent these culture traits as strongly as the ruling class and military representatives we meet.
Yeah, I remember that. He also uses a device that somehow repairs an artery within Chekov's brain without invasive surgery. With respect to the elderly woman who somehow avoids kidney dialysis, she also grows a new kidney, right? Amazing med technology within the same movie!
Yeah, i never saw the emotion chip as "fixing" Data. And besides, Data's whole thing is his quest to improve himself snd grow as a person. The emotion chip was merely another step on that path.
The emotion chip also presented Data with new challenges to his abilities. For example, having to develop courage for which he previously had no need as he had literally been fearless. It took crash-landing the saucer section for him to find his courage: "Oh s***!" but kept at the controls doing what he needed to.
As a comment on giving Data the emotion chip and making him more human, I always think of his conversasion with Lal: Lal: "Then why do you still try to emulate humans? What purpose does it serve except to remind you that you are incomplete?" Lt. Cmdr. Data: "I have asked myself that many times, as I have struggled to be more human. Until I realized, it is the struggle itself that is most important. We must strive to be more than we are, Lal. It does not matter that we will never reach our ultimate goal. The effort yields its own rewards." Data always knew that he would never be fully human, just as a fact of his being, and he was happy with that.
I don't know. To me that feels rather hurtful. Like ... We HAVE to try to blend in, be as 'normal' as we could be, even if we could never be fully like the others. That for each aspect of disability we could hide, another societal obstacle might lift and we would gain more opportunities. So, Data, in this, feels a lot like a disabled person before they learned about the concept of internalised ableism. (Been there, done that, you're not alone, Data, but that doesn't make it in any way healthy.)
@@taaya6037I don't see it as Data trying to "blend in" or seem more "normal", just striving to better himself, to understand more, and to gain more experiences. The show also clearly illustrates many times that Data isn't less perfect for not having emotions yet he strives to be more human because it's what he wants. If we really want to use the disability analogue though, is the leg amputee ableist or trying to "blend in" or be more "normal" because they choose to use a prosthetic leg? No, they do it simply because it's what they want. Are some concerned about those things? Sure, but the differentiation is determined by intent and we clearly see Data's intent. Also, that desire to "blend in" or be more "normal" is an emotional response, something of which Data isn't capable.
I remember the point being raised when TNG first came out about Picard's baldness - that certainly we would have cured it by then. And someone else countered that with the idea that, in the future, we just wouldn't be so hung up on things like that...
Kinda doubt that person was bald. As someone who deals with balding, I am sure men will always feel some amount of insecurity over losing something that is part of their identity.
@@matthewbadley5063 Agreed. However from the academy photo we saw in Nemesis I suspect bald is a much a part of Picard's identity as hair is for other people.
Well Patrick Stewart certainly doesn't seem to mind. In fact, in his early career, he even sold himself on it, claiming he could have different hair for every show, or every scene, due to the magic of wigs. Like, he's been bald for a long time. He's not ashamed of it in the least. He's owned it at this point, and I can't really see him any other way. Picard doubly so.
I love Lapis ^ - ^ it would be nice if everyone had the option to turn off feelings that are to overwhelming even if that could be misused in a lot of damaging ways.
The envy comment came during first contact. Data was describing what he was feeling, Picard "suggested" he turn it off, data snapped his head to the left and said, "done sir"...... Mr Data, there are times when I envy you...
I second this. She was in TOS and her voice is heard on every episode of TNG and DS9. I would like an epp that compares the difference between the TOS characters actors played vs new rules. Like the 3 Klingons and the Dr. Polaski...I think she was a psychic in TOS. But one on the actress would be dope.
I get the feeling that Steve may specifically want to do an "Is Lwaxana Troi actually a sexual predator?" episode. It's something that gets argued about a lot in Star Trek groups.
Pilot episode 1st officer!!! & Voice for the main computer for starters. Not to mention the input she must of have had behind the scenes along side Gene Roddenberry, even back in the day (Guess the tv controlling people wasn't ready for a Female to be in control.)
Blasphemy! Lwaxana Troi is hands down one of my favourite recurring characters in any Star Trek show. She is so incredibly charming and literally steals any scene she appears in. I love the weird relationship she and Odo had together.
“I like it when the bad guys win.” That was Curzon. 100%. The dude who was blood brothers with a Klingon and always ready to get drunk and throw hands. If anything he was probably just disappointed that Sisko took Eddington alive.
My BFF, Capt. Christopher Pike and I would like to say yes, there would be disabled people in the Star Trek future. I also seem to remember an episode about Mr. Worf where he was almost crippled. In the end, a bit of risky surgery returned him to duty, but everyone else seemed to think it would be okay to be disabled. I would also like to add, with lots of flat, wide, carpeted corridors and elevators, it would be a lot easier to be disabled in the Star Trek future.
The irony of that is that in the one episode of TNG that did feature a "wheelchair" the prop used was apparently do big to actually fit through the doors. That said, I think the issue (from a world building sense) is that ST medical tech is depicted as being able to cure almost anything in short order except when the plot of the week suddenly requires an exception.
Steve, thanks for cutting through the noise about disabilities in Trek; we, now and here, need to see and get comfortable with people who are different from us. Bring on the wheelchairs and prosthetics.
Not that I'm saying we can't always use more representation, but honestly, I think ST from TNG onward has done more of that than most shows (especially during its 80's/90's run). Star Trek was one of the only shows I watched as a kid that had ANY real representation of the disabled community. Also, with sci fi in general, it's entirely reasonably to posit a time when there might be far less use for mobility and adaptive aides. That's not saying disabled people are broken, but at the same time a lot of us struggle with things like physical pain and limitations that advancing tech may some day relieve (which indeed has already happened relative to our own past)
I am not hearing anything about the GQP MAGA tRumpers cult members who are the disabled people who are destructive and violent. These people would be shunned by even the Klingons. I would see the Federation making a example of these assclowns and trying to control their lives to prevent them from causing damage to the utopia they worked so hard to create. Peace loving and productive work ethic who try to better their community and their lives would be accepted by the Federation and Star Trek powers with open arms. The group that could be compared to evolved baboons throwing feces and violent behavior trying to rebel against humanity scared to death of technology and medical science trying to help them would never be acceptable to the Star Trek Universe.
There's no reason to not fix problems that would make it difficult for people to live their best life on their own terms in series. Except for the eugenic wars. I'd still have fibromyalgia in the trek universe because of the ban on genetic editing. There'd just be better pills for it. Given better medication, prosthetics, and a lack of actual cures you'd see more and more people with cybernetic enhancements and a dependence on medication because there'd be no evolutionary pressure against it and no technology to correct a more and more error filled genome. It'd be a very different series if they leaned into that though
Steve Shives: Hater of Trois. I will say, I’m pretty neutral on Lwaxana, (and Deanna for that matter), but I disagree with your point in one of your more recent videos about the quality of her acting. I think Majel Barrett did a great job of portraying her cloying, manipulative, and overbearing nature.
One thing that I don't understand about Lwaxana's telepathic ability was how she manages to get pregnant by Ian Troi if she's really able to read his mind and knew his intention to make love to her: I would have thought that her telepathic ability would have forewarned Lwaxana that Ian wanted to make love to her regardless of whether he actually had feelings of affection. As for Lwaxana's "overbearing nature," it's no better or worse than any other in-law who interferes with their kids' lives. In the non Star Trek world, there's the comedy series "Everybody Loves Raymond," whose main character, Ray Romano, had a Mom who was portrayed by the very able Doris Roberts. Nearly 50 years ago, TV viewers were treated to the "Mothers-in-Law" with Eve Arden and Kaye Ballard, who both made their kids' married lives harder whenever they came over uninvited. Ditto with the TV show "Bridget Loves Birney," where a Gentile woman played by Meredith Baxter marries a Jewish guy played by David Berney, and they have to cope with interfering in-laws. Lastly, let's not forget Endora, played by Agnes Moorehead and portraying Elizabeth Montgomery's Samantha Steven's Mom. Endora was a witch who constantly interfered with her children's lives while they raised their little girl, Tabitha, a little witch herself.
I would have to agree. Mahel Roddenberry was definitely one of the type of actors whose performance is directly related to the direction given. You can tell when there's a good director on an Lewuxana episode versus a mediocre one
Deanna Troi has no problems interacting with and relating to Data, despite not being able to read his emotions. She would certainly need to adjust, but she would. In fact, a great story could have been using her friendship with Data to help her adjust.
If you wanted to expand on the ships having a sense of place: The Enterprise (all of them) are the house that your grandparents built and your parents and you grew up in and every time you go back someone has done a massive renovation and it looks completely different but everyone still lives there so it still feels like home. DS9 is your first apartment that is absolute trash and something is always breaking but your neighbours are all really awesome (you think that one guy might be ex-KGB, but he fixes your clothes without charging you so it's kind of whatever). Voyager is the condo you moved to after your career took off, and its one one the nicest places you've lived, but dude, you have the weirdest neighbours; like that guy who is always cooking and keeps showing up at your door trying to get you to have some and its awful but he's just so genuinely friendly that you can't bring yourself to tell him to piss off. Picard is basically your parents sold the house and moved to the country (or another country) to retire because they can't stand "city life" anymore but somehow end up traveling away from the country to different cities. Discovery is a corporation went in, bought an old warehouse and turned it into "modern housing" in an effort to gentrify the neighbourhood. Everything chrome, visible ductwork and exposed brick to "keep the character of the original building".
Visible ductwork is one of the best features in the DSC setting (that were visible in TOS too, BTW). There's a story of a US nuclear submarine that was lost (maybe just lost many of her crew) because, in keeping with the aesthetics of a modern Navy with space age powerplants, the ductwork were kept hidden. So, nobody noticed when an important pipe started leaking. I couldn't find any reference to this, and I'm quoting from memory on an article read decades ago, but even if that was complete fabrication, the basic idea is still sound: In a working environment, you don't make inspections any harder than they need to be. Hence, one of many reasons why I never liked the 24th. century shipbuilding philosophy. they seemed to be building resorts when they should've been designing working machines.
Re: DS9's resembling my first apartment, that was NOT my situation: While attending American University in the early 80s as a grad student, I leased an efficiency on the ground floor in a row of low-rise apartment buildings on Wisconsin Ave in DC for over three years. I don't remember my neighbors, but I do remember my beautiful, patient landlady who owned a cat. That first apartment hardly broke down, and I loved living there because I could afford to do so both as a grad student on a student loan and as a paid intern with Montgomery County (MD). Regarding the DS9 neighbor who was like an ex-KGB person, are you referring to Garak the Cardassian tailor? Yeah, he was great. Regarding whether Voyager was "a condo where I lived after my career took off", ah, no it wasn't. When I first started working for Uncle Sam as a permanent employee, my first apartment was a co-op in Rosslyn, not a condo. But at least that first apartment, the next one after it, and my first purchased home was located in an urban that was constantly under construction, not stuck in Neutral like Voyager in the Delta Quadrant for 7 years. Actually, the EMH working in the Voyager's Sickbay was the annoying neighbor and Neelix was the annoying chef upstairs whose recipes ended up driving us neighbors up the proverbial walls with the weird odors. If there were roaches in the 24th century, their equivalent--voles--were the ones who could stand to deal with the odors emitted by Neelix's kitchen better than me.
The thing about the Pakleds that I think a lot of people miss is that they're actually super smart. Their ability to communicate verbally is limited, and that lulls people into the assumption that they're not intelligent, an erroneous assumption that many people in the real world fall into. But both Samaritan Snare and the Lower Deck finale clearly indicate how intelligent they actually are.
The thing I always got from the Pakleds is that they stole their technology. So the problem is that they don't understand any of it because it isn't theirs but at the same time they tricked or forced someone else into giving it to them so there's obviously a cleverness there.
I like that they are slow to learn new things, but are voracious in their hunt for new knowledge. Once they get something, they seem to take a LONG time to learn it, but once they do learn, they know it intimately. They have technologies from a hundred different species all working in perfect synchronization without fail, Starfleet could barely manage ONE alien technology (Cardassian) integrated with theirs without major malfunctions (DS9). Others see this as a weakness (wow their shields suck, so they use Bolian ones, they must be weak), but in reality they are a lot like starfleet, using the best technology they can get for that particular function. I believe they were intended to work on a microscopic level, learning from the bottom up and cannot learn if ANY steps are skipped, but they understand their own weaknesses and exploit that by getting others to do quick dirty integration, then, once installed, they go and take it apart molecule by molecule to learn it.
One thing I think a lot of people miss is that the Pakleds seem to be uncreative. Which has the side effect of them being somewhat gullible in situations where they face the unknown(such as encountering the Enterprise D). It's also likely why their own technology is relatively primitive. They're very capable of learning how things work and how to integrate multiple species technology together and even replicate it. It's just that they have a hard time coming up with advancements on their own. It may also be why their language is so limited. The lack of creativity among them leads them to just only invent words and phrases as necessary, to communicate to a satisfactory, if basic level. The result is that they don't really invent complicated wording, or phrases, because it just doesn't occur to them that they can. Once they do have something that can serve a purpose for them though, they adapt to it and reverse engineer it very quickly.
Of course, Spock claiming ancestry to Sherlock could have been the 23rd century equivalent of 'my great-great-grandmother was a Cherokee princess.' A family myth with little to no basis in reality. I honestly think this is the best answer.
What Quark uses was also the roman idea of "Armed Peace" when if you have a strong army and weapons you can acquire a lot not for the war itself but of the threat about a bloodbath that would destroy much things; in a very foreshadowing way this is also a motto of Roman Army and the title of one episode in Discovery Season 1 "Si Vis Pacem Parabellum"(If you wanna peace prepare for war)
Topic question: yes, for sure. That was the point of making Geordi blind. Technology can help disabled people live more fulfilling lives, but ultimately genetic defects and injuries will continue to exist because the Federation is not a eugenicist state
Yes, but conditions like blindness (among many other disabling conditions) are generally not genetic and often stem from things like fetal or birth injuries which ST theoretically should be able to avoid/treat with their level of medical tech. It's also unclear exactly how far the Federation ban of genetic engineering goes. They clearly ban "designer" genetics, but it's somewhat less clear if that would extend to everything.
@@Tim85-y2q True, but I also think from a creative perspective it’s a great thing to show people with disabilities that “you belong in our perfect vision of the future, too”
I had never realised Zek’s actor was in the Princess bride but the moment you said it I was like “holy cow it was him!” Must’ve been the ferengi makeup
I remember there an episode in the second season TNG where Geordi was given an option by Dr. Pulaski to "fix" his vision. Geordi turns it down as he actually sees more with his visor than he could have with normal vision. And I fell Geordi had that right to refuse that procedure as it could strongly impact his life going forwards.
I commented here or elsewhere that Geordi could make that decision easily without even considering whether he had the financial wherewithal to have the procedure performed. In the 24th century economy where there was no poverty on Earth or some parts of the Federation, almost every Federation citizen had access to excellent health care provided regardless of income levels. Compare that situation to what Bones McCoy encounters in the ST TOS novel "Doctor's Orders," (written by Diane Duane) where he meets with a Klingon Commander who has heart trouble and mentions to McCoy (who's sitting in the center seat by Kirk's orders) that he can't afford cardiovascular surgery. McCoy is bothered by the notion that the Klingon can't afford a procedure, and offers to do the surgery at no cost to the Klingon. In addition, in another ST TOS novel, "The IDIC Epidemic", written by Jean Lorrah, another Klingon officer who suffered from astimagtism which kept him from military service as a younger man, underwent a Federation medical procedure at no cost to him or his family. Contrast these situations happening in the 23rd and 24th centuries where poverty is unknown and where people have access to excellent medical care to what's happening right now: people needing to decide whether to pay to put food on the table vs. medications because Medicaid isn't available to them as a result of politics.
He didn't turn it down immediately though, which I think made it an even better scene. She told him the options, he asked about the risks, she explained them, including that the current prosthetics weren't as good as the VISOR, and that there was a chance that the procedure to grow new eyes would completely fail. He told her he had to think about it... and then later turned her down. It was very realistic, and a good set of scenes.
There are also some injuries that medical science in Star Trek have not fully figured out how to fix. Worf was injured when a storage container fell on him and broke his spine. Dr Crusher was not able to fix his back so she had to get help from a specialist. However eve that there was no assurance that it would work.
I think a big part of what gives Enterprise-D and DSN9 that lived in feel is we get to see where people go to just hang out (10 Forward and Quark’s). Discovery has the cafeteria but it’s just a cafeteria, it doesn’t have the distinctive vibe that 10 Forward has (and obviously no Gainen).
Interesting thoughts on the portrait of Unions in Star Trek in Bar Association. It is so rare to see a US TV show do a pro-union show like that. I do love it is the Irish and British characters who talk to Rom about the union and enjoy betting on who will pass the picket line and who won’t. I always thought of this as a subtle jab by the writers on how unions are thought of in the US. My wife recently introduced me to WKRP in Cincinnati and that show has a union episode where were supposed (I think) to symphysis with the station manager for undermining the union. For context, I grew up in Ireland and was a member of 3 different unions when lived there. Now I live in Canada.
I think it's cyclic. WKRP was made in the late 1970s, right before Reagan came in, which was probably the low ebb of American sympathy for the labor movement. Things are turning around now. So many workers here don't have unions and they're feeling the sting of that.
Troi I think didn't actually compare herself as a blind person, in fact she slapped down everyone that tried to compare her loss to being blind or deaf.
You raise the question about whether or not Geordi would accept having his sight returned. In "Hide and Q" where Riker is given the powers of the Q, he DOES restore Geordi's sight. After seeing Tasha through natural eyes, citing that it would be too high a price to pay {losing Riker to the Q} he begs Riker to restore him to what he was. In the same episode, Data refuses to be made human.
I just watched a TikTok by a deaf woman where she said if they discovered a cure for deafness she would reject it. I too would reject a “cure” for autism. Plus as to weather Geordi would accept of reject an opportunity to get his sight back he has that conversation in loud as a whisper where he says blindness is a part of him and he likes who he is. (Which I don’t remember if you mentioned)
I have cerebral palsy and if my mom could have "fixed" when I was younger I would not have been angry at her in the least. She did have the doctors fix me as much as the times allowed (late 60s early 70s).
I would be interested to see if there’s a strong correlation to generations, and if there’s a generational attitude sort of thing. I’ve seen lots of younger folks with Cerebral Palsy online posting about how much they hate this societal focus on curing/eliminating. Similar to my experiences in autistic communities.
Same. There's a difference (IMHO) between saying disabled people aren't broken in the sense we are full and complete people worthy of dignity and saying "you know, all things being equal, I would rather not have to deal with certain frustrating aspects of my disability". If I could "cure" my CP, I absolutely would, in a heartbeat.
@@kaitlyn__L I think it's somewhat generational, but I think there's also a strong element of personal preference. I'm still fairly young (early to mid 30's) and not only do I not share the disdain common among some in the CP community for a focus on "curing"/I absolutely cannot relate to it, at all, at I know many others who feel the same way. (many of us would absolutely love some sort of cure.) I don't think that makes either viewpoint less valid, just that we all process the experience of our disabilities in different ways. It's an extremely personal subject and set of experiences.
@@Tim85-y2q I’m in my 50s, I’m the 1960s/1970s older people would come up to our parents and asked why we weren’t put in a home somewhere. Away from everyone else. In our society, we are not wanted. President Franklin Delenor Rosevelt had polio. That fact was hidden for decades. Even today, his handicapped existence is never expanded on. Polio was “cured” Nobody’s saying “Damn! Shame there aren’t any polio kids around. We could use another FDR” It’s far more complex than that. Handicapped people are not wanted by society and they are not wanted by evolutionary selection. Yet we exist because science and society have made strides. At one time society wanted us to be shunted off and hidden. Many of our parents tried to raise us as independently as they could. There were also parents who taught their children that they are helpless. Then you need to throw in if you were born handicapped or became handicapped. Rich or poor. If your handicap is part of your identity or you deem it a limitation.
Part of the issue with Bashir though Is it is one thing if that's what he wanted, but it was done without his consent and hidden from him. To a certain extent yes, parents are a very important part in consent for children with medical procedures, but especially for something like that the child should have a say in their own personhood. A great example is to turn to people who had cochlear implants done as children, and they regret their parents making that choice for them. There are many people who are happy to have that implant but they made that choice. Also to turn to the more fantastical part of it, he had his body and mind radically changed in a very body horror way, and he understandably asks himself how much of his present day self is actually him versus the treatment his parents forced on him.
TNG & DS9: "We have Luxanna Troi, we have the most annoying character in Sci-Fi history." Star Wars: "We have Jar Jar Binks." Voyager: "Am I late to the party? We have Neelix."
As someone with a learning challenge (ASD + ADHD), I choose to believe they'd be able to give me some sort of mind expansion like a working memory module and emotional intelligence software. My conditions, while making live at times difficult. They have granted me the ability to see the world in different ways, sometimes granting a deeper understanding than a neurotypical person.
Grand Nagus: Ha-ha, you fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is “Never get involved in a land war in Asia,” but only slightly less well known is this: “Never go in against a Ferengi, when profit is on the line!” *falls over dead*
I think the terror for Pike was that he was assaulted with his future. It wasn't so much that he was in a wheelchair, it was that his mind was transported to his future self and forced to experience the realities of his traumatic future in an instant. In my opinion Anson Mount did a excellent job in portraying the more conceptual terror of what Pike was going through. To me it was very clear, by reading the emotion of the scene and how Pike handles himself after he has has the knowledge of his future self. He persists, and it strengthens his resolve and he accepts his fate in a way that I find inspiring. Now, if there was scene right after that showed Pike googling for "Bitchin' robot legs" I'd say there may be an issue.
Hey Steve, I just listened to your response to Deanna Troy losing her empathic abilities. While I agree with you that she would adjust and function without her abilities, that doesn't consider how she would be viewed or treated by other betazoids or within her own culture.
Can we also talk about how characters like Odo hit differently from when we were children to how they hit us now, as adults? for example, when I was a kid, Odo for sure had that 'cop' persona and fulfilled my sense of justice within the show. But now, as an adult, my sense of fulfillment I get from Odo is one of a conflicted romanticist. Very different vibes, and it makes me wonder how many other characters have similar arcs within ourselves at one age to the next.
Hey Steve, y'know what would be a great topic for a video? An expansion on the "How DS9 saved the Ferengi" video, into a larger discussion on how DS9 portrayed cultural diversity/engaged in worldbuilding among its alien species. One of my FAVOURITE things about DS9 were the little details the writers put into the show to differentiate alien cultural customs from humans: e.g. how Ferengi pray/give thanks with their wrists together, how Bajorans clap with one hand against the back of another, how food dishes had unique names like Hasperat (as opposed to generic names like "Talaxian stew"), etc. What it said to me was that the DS9 writers weren't content to just take the lazy route of having all alien species default to following the same cultural customs as (American-centric) humans, and that made the show feel more believable and 'real' to me as a result.
I greatly appreciate how you brought up plarb(spelling) the pakled and his courtroom response. I have this problem a lot and have struggled with it quite a bit, it has taken me 40 years to understand that when people ask questions of that nature they are trying to lead me and not actually asking the question they are asking, also it makes me more than a little upset that people ask such questions. If you want to ask "will you please describe the events of the day?" WHY NOT ASK THAT? WHY ASK "do you want to do a thing?" Neurotypical people treat neuro-atypical people as weirdos because society has these "weird implied understood rules" that neuro-atypical people don't get. No no, these implied understood rules are the weird things not us.
The bit about answering questions honestly reminds me of my autistic nephew, who has done just that when talking to a police officer. I can understand that way of thinking, it took me a while to understand the more complex nature of communication and still sometimes fail.
Exactly. That's how I read Spock's comment alluding to his "ancestor" being Sherlock Holmes. It reads to me like a joke - and yes indeed, Spock has a superbly witty, dry sense of humor.
Oh, yeah. That was told in the beginning of ST TOS VI Movie, "The Undiscovered Country" after the meeting with Admiral Cartwright. Just mentioning that "old Vulcan Proverb" begs the question: How would the Vulcans know about Nixon and China unless American TV signals reached Vulcan after traveling 10-12 light years between 1972 (the year Nixon visited China) and when Sarek was a kid on Vulcan during the 22nd century?
Wasn’t there a betazed character in Voyager who didn’t have any empathic, nor telepathic abilities that was born that way who became a psychologically imbalanced murderer? He was the guy who played Chucky in the Child’s Play movies?
@@st.anselmsfire3547 voyager isn’t my favourite of the shows though I like it a bit more than Steve, that was definitely a stand out episode, he’s an amazing actor but kind of stuck with those kind of characters. Think I’ll have to rewatch it for the exact storyline though.
Lwaxana Troi, Daughter of the Fifth House, Keeper of the Sacred Chalice of Rixx, and Heir to the Holy Rings of Betazed, has a large fanbase? The devil you say.
I'm of two minds on this, On the one hand the fact that Star Trek as a setting is depicted as having virtually unlimited medical tech (except when required by the plot), it seems to me they probably should be able to correct/treat/etc. most disabling conditions, on the other hand, as a disabled individual I like that Star Trek tends to depict adaptive devices as allowing disabled characters to compensate for their disabilities without necessarily acquiring all the physical abilities they would have if they were completely able bodied, that's pretty much how it works in real life but is rarely portrayed that way in fiction. (ie. La Forge's visor allows him to see, but doesn't give him normal vision)
I agree with you that the excellent medical care provided by Starfleet and the Federation to all Federation citizens regardless of income levels has a lot to do with the setting of the series--22nd to 24th centuries--as well as the plot. That's why I'm pleased that no character in the ST universe ever has to plead with authorities to let them to either refuse treatment (in Geordi's case with the ocular implants) or in Ensign Melora's case to accept help in the form of a special chair designed for her by Julian Bashir at no cost to Melora. Compare the future setting of the Federation vs. the fact that our country, a very wealthy nation, can't seem to provide decent care to our citizens because politicians controlling Red States don't want to accept Federal help in expanding Medicaid. I'm sure Roddenberry must have seen this situation during the 60s, before Medicare was enacted in '65, when he started thinking, "What if our world in the future had no poverty, food was available to everybody, and all had access to medical care? That's the future I want to be in, and that's why I created Star Trek to reflect that future."
Its unfortunate that we have used "slow" in such a negative and patronizing way, because it could have been a really useful and sympathetic way of describing cognitive and intellectual disabilities. Most people with cognitive disabilities are competent people, it may just take them more time to do certain tasks or reach conclusions. Or they may reach milestones later than their peers. They get there eventually, but may be slower. They just need accommodations. But, of course, we have gone down the road of patronizing intellectually disabled persons with this language, and that is a sad reality.
I don't think having a guy in a wheelchair completely breaks the world, but I think it robs from the aspirational aspect of Star Trek. In a way, I feel (physically) disabled people may see people like them in Star Trek and think "I exist, I'm being representated". But they may also see people like them in Star Trek and think "Hell, even the the 24th century I wouldn't be able to walk? What kind of aspirational future is that!?" Now, there will always be disability, but it can be overwhelmingly reduced. And that is what an aspirational future is supposed to look like! I, for instance, am HIV positive. Having HIV positive people existing and living meaningful lives in a show set in the present such as, dunno, Riverdale, feels right. Even having people with HIV in a distant but grim future like The Expanse feels right. They feel like representation. Having HIV positive people in Star Trek would not feel like representation, it would feel like a curse, like they are saying to me that even in this aspirational, proto-utopian future I would still have to live with the virus. No thanks. Again, disability will always exist, and yes, it should be shown. But in a future that is supposed to be better than now, it should be at least largely reduced.
This is really frustrating because the eradication of disabled people is not aspirational; that’s just the history of eugenics. For the sake of realism, they have fucking sentient rocks that are Federation members. Surely they have the ability to make their spaceships accessible to members of all species, some that can’t see in the same wavelengths of light, some that can’t hear, some that need to be warmer or colder or at completely different pressures. The ableism is that people keep talking about fixing disabilities but what’s a disability is entirely defined by ableism and what’s “normal” now. We’re not giving people extra thumbs or cyber brains or a second spine. A Klingon with a human body would commit suicide because it was so “disabled.” A Federation future that’s aspirational is one where accessibility is prioritized, and that future also makes a ton of sense if you’re saying you want to create spaces where dozens or hundreds of species can meet and interact on equal terms. That ought to easily extend to humans who can’t walk but have other sorts of mobility, humans that degrade because of age, and humans that are injured, as will always happen. If Pike is “disfigured” but no one cares, that’s not a disability. If he’s immobilized but has the ability to move himself around, that’s not a disability. If he can’t speak but he can communicate because people understand the beeps or it utilizes the universal translator, that’s not a disability. If he needs someone to assist him with bathing, healthcare, etc., but there are people in the Federation with that job, it’s a disability but all sorts of people need help with stuff like that, and eventually most of us will if we get old enough. In a world where it’s normal to wear glasses and contacts and we can increase the size of text on our web browsers, where there’s alt text and text to speech, failing eyesight is not a disability. In a world where everyone is expected to have perfect sight to get by with no accessibility devices, it is.
Eliminating disability isn't the same as eliminating disabled people. What kind of perverse worldview sees increasing an individual's mental and physical capabilities as some sort of attack? Imagine become paralyzed from the neck down. Saying that's not a disability is ridiculous, and self-evidently so. Get real.
They didn't just tie Data down and give him emotions. The emotion chip was made by his creator (it just took longer than making Data himself). The point is, Data was given the choice to accept the emotion chip, and he chose to install it. So there's nothing wrong with it on that level.
Yeah, I think there's such a pushback at times to the notion of disabled people being broken (which we're not) that it sometimes obscures the very real fact that if many of us had the opportunity to do something that would alleviate our disabilities (whatever they may be) we would. Data WANTS to be more human and there's nothing wrong with that (even though he was a complete and dignified being as he was)
I’m a disabled person both physically and mentally, and I feel that a lot of people accept my outer disabilities (though even with that I get assholes who don’t care), my mental disabilities are constantly questioned and people show impatience because they just don’t understand and many don’t bother to talk to me or just ask me about it. I would be happy to explain Borderline Personality Disorder to anyone who legitimately wants to learn.
I grew up watching Star Trek: TNG from a very young age, it's one of the first TV shows that I remember watching (alongside Classic Doctor Who) because my parents would put it on all the time, and there were some disturbing aspects of the show that created vivid, lasting memories for me. Some examples include the shot of Riker lying dead with a piece of metal sticking out of his neck in Yesterday's Enterprise, the Barclay spider-monster from Genesis, the corpses in bags sitting up in the morgue in Night Terrors, the bit where Riker and Picard melt a man's face off in Conspiracy, the brainwashed crew forcing Wesley to play the game in The Game, the list goes on. I wouldn't have missed it for the world though, my childhood was awesome.
In Star Trek Online the Pakleds are just a part of the Federation and no one talks about it. But you can also be a Gorn officer in the Klingon fleet, so who knows?
You only believe that because you can't be fixed, and thus have learned to cope and adjust your self-image. If it could have been corrected before your self-identity and pride became embedded in it, you'd be thankful.
I am sorry that someone would reject your lived experience without any evidence. We all have differences which make us individuals. I for one am glad that you accept your whole self and recognize your own superpowers! Infinite diversity in infinite combinations!
Regarding disabilities, It is my understanding that there is not just a deaf community, but an entire deaf culture. I recall stories a few years back regarding cochlear implants and "fixing" deaf kids. I just find it interesting is all. I enjoyed the entire discussion in this video.
The talk about Ferengi and Klingons has me wondering. Could you do well having an alien species that *does* have a fundamentally different psychology, but are still clearly people?
This is interesting - could you provide an example or two of what you would consider fundamentally different psychology? I sometimes think that psychopaths/sociopaths that engage in anti-social behaviour are doing so partly because they live in world controlled and influenced by people who are nothing like them - which kinda drives them insane.
I thought that the Borg, when originally introduced, was an example of a species with a fundamentally different psychology. From its point of view, as a hive mind, assimilating other species is doing them good, by including them in its perfection. To it, the needs and wants of individuals of other species is as irrelevant as the needs and wants of cells of our bodies are to us. The only problem is that the Borg does not ask whether people would like to be assimilated, but that's because whether they would like it or not is irrelevant, according to the reasoning in the previous sentence. If you were having a liver transplant, would you ask the liver first whether it would like to be made into a part of your body? Then Star Trek: First Contact ruined everything by inventing the Borg Queen. From then on, they were just bad guys, with the same morals as us but deliberately choosing to be bad.
IMHO they do that a bit with Worf. He's about as fully assimilated to Federation culture as it's possible for a Klingon to be and yet he still holds views and values that are sometimes very alien to those of the Federation.
I kept waiting for you to point out to Matheus Froes that Geordi, in fact, had the opportunity to get his sight back several times! Crusher mentioned it in "Encounter at Farpoint," Pulaski brought it up in season 2, and Riker actually did restore Geordi's sight in "Hide and Q." In all three cases Geordi refused having normal vision. Love watching your videos, by the way!!
IIRC Crusher and Pulaski were talking about the sort of implants he got in the movies, not actually restoring his vision and in Hide and Q it was clearly framed as his not wanting to be in debt to Q. OTOH in a couple episodes (off the top of my head, The Naked Now), he does express something of a longing for normal vision At best, I think you can say they present something of a mixed bag in regards to Geordi's feelings on the matter.
@@Tim85-y2q Pulaski did offer to attempt to regenerate the optic nerve and grow him new eyes, but explained that it might not work. She also told him that the prosthetics weren't as good, and he'd lose a small portion of his current visual range. I think that is a perfect example of how Starfleet would handle disability. "These are the ways you can still do your job. These are the risks of each. Whatever you choose, we'll make it work."
Re: Pike - Don't forget the episode was written in the 60s so their ability to even imagine what could be done for the differently abled is very different from what we know we can do (Kenneth Mitchell on Discovery).
That’s a good point. It’s easy to look at how much medical and social technology we have that’s specifically designed for disabled and differently abled to interact with the rest of world on a near-equal level. Even Stephen Hawking had his wheelchair with the talk box. But he became wheelchair bound in the 80s.
Thinking about Lwaxana Troi I can understand a lot of the dislike for her. She's very over the top and annoying some times. That being said the scene with Odo in the turbolift is one of the sweetest scenes in start trek and completely redeems the character in my eyes.
My first introduction to Lwaxana was “Dark Page” in TNG, followed by her two DS9 episodes, so I always had a lot of time for her. Instead of being the annoying person who eventually had some great stories, she was a a very interesting and complex character who also did some bad comedy.
Regarding Lwaxana's proclivity to make out with almost every species and race within the Federation and outside of it, she's a little like Kirk, Riker, and Picard because those characters also have the ability to make out with almost any kind of species and race within the Federation and outside of it. Either character can get away with doing so because neither Kirk, Riker and Picard is married and Lwaxana is a widow. All of them can experiment by having romantic flings whenever they want. For example, recall how Lwaxana, Deanna and Riker all get abducted by the Ferengi in the episode "Menage a Troi", and you'll see how Lwaxana almost want to make out with one of the Ferengi if they allow the other captives to return to the Enterprise. That situation and the one you describe in your posting, IMHO, redeems Lwaxana's ability and desire to make love to anybody she wants, whether it's a shape-shifter like Odo; Dr. Timicin, a scientist from Kaelon II; a Ferengi; or a human like Picard or Ian Troi. What annoys the Klingons is that Kirk, who can make out with any species or race, also has the ability to kick their butts in battle.
In a Star Trek future the notion of reasonable accommodation would probably become so commonplace that it wouldn't occur to people that you would ever not do it. The breen need full body suits to leave their ships because they evolved on a planet with what we think of as an extreme environment. In ds9 Melora is from a low gravity planet and the difficulty that causes if frankly unrealistic. The Star Trek future couldn't exist if we didn't come to grips with this.
I'm on the Spectrum, and yeah, felt a connection with Data. The thing that mattered for me was that even if he seemed to be short a few human qualities, he expressed extraordinary virtues. He was courageous, loyal, understanding, humble, and wanting to live life to the fullest. The way they ended his character is ridiculous.
wow - that 'sense of place' really made me think - I think that all of the SF series (the ones that have a primary science fiction location) that I love, have that particular quality.
Thanks for pointing out that many of the so-called "disabled" resent even being considered disabled. Some years ago I became aware of an entire deaf culture who really don't care a lot about interacting with the hearing world. They can communicate and understand each other just fine and if you can't it's probably because you never bothered to learn sign language. I recently learned that this "weird"ness I've grown up with is probably Asperger's (I know, that's not the DSM term anymore, it's just the one I learned). I've never known why I felt so different from everyone else, but I always knew I wouldn't want it to change because it's a very large part of who I am.
So, I agree that the depiction of Pike could be problematic, largely because there are so few characters who use mobility aids. I also know, as a disabled person who uses mobility aids, that a non disabled version of me would probably be quite scared of that fate. I think that Pike's story has elements of truth. There's potential for a nuanced story about becoming disabled but it has never been told from post disability Pike's perspective. They probably won't but it'd be neat if the new Pike show did that.
Oh, I would love if you did a video about Bashir. There's so much to dissect about both his parents' actions and also Julian's emotions about his enhancements. I feel like even with his learning disabilities "fixed", there's still a lot that reads very neurodivergent about his personality.
Frankly, on whether Pike can communicate in Morse code or use beeps for yes or no, my "head canon" has been to say most people don't know Morse code off the top of their head, and so yes/no is how he communicates with most people ... but in general he can write and speak. My memory is fuzzy, is TOS ever prescriptive about the yes/no thing?
The part with Jadzia Dax liking the poisoning of the planet could be influenced by Curzon(who did not play by the rulebook) and from Joran(the murderer). Dax had one host that broke all type of rules and one that broke all rules and morals. Naturally some ideas from them were part of Dax.
The question of disability In star trek is an interesting topic. The thing that worries me personally, which you kind of brought up with Bashir, is is the idea of "fixing" people becoming a norm. I totally understand why someone would want say...their eye sight restored, but our culture tends to go to extremes and given the continues advances in the field of genetic science that are occurring I'm really worried that we'll eventually get a world like the one I'm GATTACA. I don't want to live in a world where we are trying to "fix" people in wheel chairs simply because someone decided that you are "broken" if you can't walk. As Georgia says to sauron in star trek: generations "what is 'normal?'"
This is why I even as a non-disabled person (well except my eyesight which I use an accommodation known as glasses) that I much prefer yeah actually in star trek disabled people exist because like Picard's baldness we got better as a people. We changed our soceity to fit them in better instead of changing them to fit society
There's a difference between "fixing" someone's genes and treating many disabilities, which are the result of some sort of injury. In those cases, curing the disability and setting a broken bone (for example) really only comes in the form of degrees.
I know you said you don't care about the in-universe explanation for the presence of disabled characters in fiction, but I think the Mass Effect series handled it really well. It's implied that as medical science has advanced we've been able to treat all of the common physical disabilities people experience today, but other conditions that people could not even survived infancy now have treatments that call for wheelchairs, ect. Seth Green's character Joker has a severe case of a condition called Vrolik's Syndrome, and says that "a few hundred years ago" (meaning our time) medical science would not have been a been able to do much for him, but in the time of Mass Effect he has a good quality of life with just a few reasonable accommodations.
34:10 Imagine dedicating your entire life to being in Starfleet. Imagine having aspirations of becoming a Captain and more. Imagine wanting a family and playing with your children and reading them stories and walking your daughter down the aisle. Imagine everything that an able bodied person could reasonably achieve and experience in their lifetime. Now, Imagine seeing your future and having all of those hopes and dreams, as you imagined them, completely shattered. You will never walk again. You will never speak again. Interacting with the world around you and communication become excessively difficult. The immediate mental distress would be overwhelming for most people. Just converse with people who were injured and became paraplegic/quadriplegic. Most had never imagined a life in such circumstances. Furthermore, was he horrified by being in a "wheelchair"? By not being able to verbally communicate? By seeing himself horribly disfigured/scarred? By realizing all his dreams would be eviscerated? Some combination of all and more? It's okay to be offended by his reaction. But I can imagine the shock and horror one might experience in such a situation. There's nothing wrong with being blind. But I wouldn't want to become blind. If I did, I'd force myself to adjust and adapt but certain things I want to experience would no longer be possible. Same with becoming a quadriplegic. A huge portion of my imagined future wouldn't be possible. But I'd adapt. I once fell out of a tree and landed on my head. I lost my vision for several minutes. I initially panicked but quickly calmed down and assessed the situation. I didn't scream in terror but I quickly imagined a life without vision. Luckily, my vision slowly returned. But it put things into perspective and made me appreciate my sight that much more.
On the topic of mental health issues/disabilities, if there was something which would completely eliminate my depression, I would take it in an instant. My anxiety and autism on the other hand, are a pretty integral part of my character at this point, and it's only a severe issue when it compounds with the depression. That depression can get screwed, though.
Airiam and Detmer are examples of respecting the subject of disability. Airiam had to choose daily what memories to retain while Detmer works though trauma that begun with the Battle of the Binary Stars. Both have endured challenges and it's impact on their careers and relationships. Neither were simply fixed or cast aside.
I always loved the theory that the reason the NX-01 Enterprise looks the way it does is because Zefram Cochrane based it off the NCC-1701E Enterprise as seen through a telescope
And also based on what Lily learned why she was on The Enterprise.
@@Slopmaster, doesn't this make Star Trek look like a village, though?
Speaking of star trek disabilities. The person that made me realize people like me could be in the federation was Barclay. As a kid watching him be anxiety filled and finding odd ways to cope really hit me like, "Mom, Dad, look at Barclay, I have that! Im nervous and weird too, he's like me". And my parents took me to doctors and therapists after I pointed Barclay out to them.
Barclay was by far my favorite TNG character. He came across to me as the most realistic character, and showed that people like him (me) can contribute despite social anxieties. I'm also extremely fond of Tilly. She reminds me of my little sister.
The fact that Barclay found a way to communicate with Voyager makes him the greatest character in my book
Barclay is on the Autism Spectrum, Bashir had learning disabilities, Spock was reconned to have dyslexia
Barclay is definitely one of my favorite characters for the same reason. I saw him when I was young and I was like, I love Picard and Data but here is someone who isn’t infallible. Picard is a very well-rounded and real person... and of course he became more fallible as time went on. But with Barclay, it showed that social anxiety, depression, etc is still a thing in the 24th century.
I was such a Barclay growing up. My dad even pointed it out to me.
As an Autistic person I feel I have to reject the comparison to characters like Spock, Odo and especially Data. The thing they all have in common is their detached relationship to emotions. And, as an Autistic person, I can assure you (in the general sense) I definitely have emotions, I feel and experience them fully. I've always found the connection to Data, especially, kind of insulting. I'm not an emotionless robot seeking to one day be "fully human".
I actually find Seven of Nine to be a better fit for an Autistic analogue, at least before Tilly came around.
The problem is that autism covers such a wide range of different symptoms and presentations, people tend to kind of apply one definition to all people with autism.
Assumptions about someone's health and well being are never a good idea.
Valid point! Autistic people are often treated as a stereotype/hive-mind, as if one autistic person were interchangeable with any other autistic person. There are as many ways to be autistic as there are autistic individuals, and Data literally being a robot incapable of emotion plays into one of the most damaging stereotypes about autistic people! Maybe Jessie Gender (a brilliant TrekTuber who is also autistic) should do a second part of her "The Problem with Allegory" video, this time focussing on neurodivergency rather than gender identity/sexaulity...
Same
As an Autistic person, I've always related to Spock and Data, not so much Odo though.
One depiction of autism that I really liked was the episode with the 4 genetically engineered people, because it felt like the writers talked to autistic people to depict them, and it's all summed up in, what I consider to be an important detail that could easily get glossed over, the high pitched noise that they all hear, as well as Bashir. No one else hears it, but they do, and I've experienced that, hearing the electricity, or other sounds, and it made it feel more real for me.
As a disabled person I always loved Odo. He knows that he was born differently and that he can do things that others can't and vice versa and he doesn't give a damn. Comparing that to Data who knew that he stood out and always longed to be human, Data was probably the person I was when I was growing up, but Odo is the kind of person I became.
Very well put!
Also the bit where he grew up in a lab, and his first parental figure was a scientist trying to study him (and being implicitly sort of abusive)... that tracks with "disabled" imho
I didn't really like Odo as a kid, despite the many ways I'm actually a lot like him. Then I got old & sick of everyone's nonsense, got talked into rewatching DS9, and now he's my favorite character in the franchise.
He may be a cop, but he's actually the ideal cop. Not PERFECT, but ideal - everyone respected him, everyone trusted him, because everyone knew that he only cared about justice & didn't take sides. I don't think it's at all fair to apply current discourse about policing to a character who's more than twenty years out of date.
I don't know that Odo "doesn't care". He clearly struggles with a sense of belonging, he just puts on a front to mask it (which itself is something many of us in the disabled community go through at one time or another.)
Damn right.
As with so much else, Lwaxana Troi's best (arguably only good) appearance was on DS9. The brief relationship between her and Odo was genuinely touching, especially when they're trapped in the turbolift and they both finally put down their defensive affectations and reveal their vulnerabilities to one another.
I recently watched that episode for the first time. It was sooooo awkward up to that point, with Odo clearly being very uncomfortable with Lwaxana's sexual advances, and Sisko disappointingly just laughing him off and suggesting he just "let her catch you". Ugh. But being trapped in the elevator together was a positive direction for the episode - forcing both characters to drop their pretenses, allowing Odo to be vulnerable and be helped, and giving Lwaxana's motherly side a chance to shine.
This episode was so good. and the follow-up episode to this was also beautiful. They retroactively made Lwaxana a a better character.
Absolutely. I was so impressed with how they handled that on DS9.
It’s not even that the “racial traits” depicted are just cultural norms, but that they are cultural norms of the aristocracy of the culture in question. In most of Star Trek, we are seeing the ruling classes. We don’t see ordinary Klingon janitors, accountants, farmers, and shopkeepers; we see the dominant culture of the ruling class. Same with the Ferengi and the Federation (and most of the minor species we get to see).
Exactly, I've said this often of the 'planet of the hats' trope. The representative 'hat' of a culture is usually curbed by who we meet from that culture. Now in truth is it is a writing handicap but one I don't fault writers too heavily for when it comes to one off alien races for the plot while turning out a weekly series. So 'Warrior planet', 'commerce planet', etc etc is a shortcut. But I find whenever we have long term exposure to a culture or race we start to see variants of this. That while there is a ruling cast that greatly represents certain traits and values strongly, there's also regular workers, people on farms, people with the general jobs of society. And they may not represent these culture traits as strongly as the ruling class and military representatives we meet.
That a reasonable assumption, yes! I wish the shows took that to heart and explored it. I'll add the idea to my canon regardless lmao
Remember that moment in Star Trek IV when Dr. McCoy gave a magic pill to an elderly woman on kidney dialysis.
Now that's the kind of medical fixing I'm really down with. Because I doubt anyone loves having to be hooked up to a dialysis machine.
@@DataLal I'd love a magic pill that fixed my eyes so I didn't have to buy glasses anymore either. Hell, give me magic pills to improve everything!
@@dm121984 McCoy: "Well, for that I'd usually prescribe Retinax 5." Kirk: "I'm allergic to Retinax."
Yeah, I remember that. He also uses a device that somehow repairs an artery within Chekov's brain without invasive surgery. With respect to the elderly woman who somehow avoids kidney dialysis, she also grows a new kidney, right? Amazing med technology within the same movie!
Holy crap, Steve, that Zek impression was so spot on, it was actually disconcerting. I had to replay it twice just so my brain could process it.
The emotion chip didn't "fix" Data, it just gave him a new set of social tools to use... and he still had to learn how to use them.
Yeah, i never saw the emotion chip as "fixing" Data. And besides, Data's whole thing is his quest to improve himself snd grow as a person. The emotion chip was merely another step on that path.
Also what that person overlooked was that data had a choice as to whether or not he could use it, he could turn it off any time he wanted to.
For an entire movie (and presumably longer) it actually made him struggle more, albeit in new and different ways.
In one of the movies Picard tells Data "perhaps u should turn off your chip" I envy Data sometimes too Captian
The emotion chip also presented Data with new challenges to his abilities. For example, having to develop courage for which he previously had no need as he had literally been fearless. It took crash-landing the saucer section for him to find his courage: "Oh s***!" but kept at the controls doing what he needed to.
As a comment on giving Data the emotion chip and making him more human, I always think of his conversasion with Lal:
Lal: "Then why do you still try to emulate humans? What purpose does it serve except to remind you that you are incomplete?"
Lt. Cmdr. Data: "I have asked myself that many times, as I have struggled to be more human. Until I realized, it is the struggle itself that is most important. We must strive to be more than we are, Lal. It does not matter that we will never reach our ultimate goal. The effort yields its own rewards."
Data always knew that he would never be fully human, just as a fact of his being, and he was happy with that.
His strive is philosophical; he seeks like many do to understand the human condition; but he's also on the outside looking in.
I don't know. To me that feels rather hurtful. Like ... We HAVE to try to blend in, be as 'normal' as we could be, even if we could never be fully like the others. That for each aspect of disability we could hide, another societal obstacle might lift and we would gain more opportunities. So, Data, in this, feels a lot like a disabled person before they learned about the concept of internalised ableism. (Been there, done that, you're not alone, Data, but that doesn't make it in any way healthy.)
@@taaya6037I don't see it as Data trying to "blend in" or seem more "normal", just striving to better himself, to understand more, and to gain more experiences. The show also clearly illustrates many times that Data isn't less perfect for not having emotions yet he strives to be more human because it's what he wants.
If we really want to use the disability analogue though, is the leg amputee ableist or trying to "blend in" or be more "normal" because they choose to use a prosthetic leg? No, they do it simply because it's what they want. Are some concerned about those things? Sure, but the differentiation is determined by intent and we clearly see Data's intent. Also, that desire to "blend in" or be more "normal" is an emotional response, something of which Data isn't capable.
3:43 I love how much this part is just dripping with sarcasm. Man, way too many nerds think nitpicking is clever.
I remember the point being raised when TNG first came out about Picard's baldness - that certainly we would have cured it by then. And someone else countered that with the idea that, in the future, we just wouldn't be so hung up on things like that...
Kinda doubt that person was bald.
As someone who deals with balding, I am sure men will always feel some amount of insecurity over losing something that is part of their identity.
@@matthewbadley5063 Agreed. However from the academy photo we saw in Nemesis I suspect bald is a much a part of Picard's identity as hair is for other people.
@@matthewbadley5063 if you hair is part of your identity you have a pretty boring identity lol
@@matthewbadley5063 Some people would probably choose to be bald for political/ideological reasons.
Well Patrick Stewart certainly doesn't seem to mind. In fact, in his early career, he even sold himself on it, claiming he could have different hair for every show, or every scene, due to the magic of wigs.
Like, he's been bald for a long time. He's not ashamed of it in the least. He's owned it at this point, and I can't really see him any other way. Picard doubly so.
19:33 “Time is a predator, stalking you...” and growling, too. Love that subtle reference.
The one thing I remember about that emotion chip is, that he switches it off under stress and Picard states he's envious.
I love Lapis ^ - ^
it would be nice if everyone had the option to turn off feelings that are to overwhelming even if that could be misused in a lot of damaging ways.
The envy comment came during first contact. Data was describing what he was feeling, Picard "suggested" he turn it off, data snapped his head to the left and said, "done sir"...... Mr Data, there are times when I envy you...
Instead of Lwaxana Troi, why not a Majel Barrett episode? She has contributed so much to Star Trek, not just this highly annoying character...
I second this. She was in TOS and her voice is heard on every episode of TNG and DS9.
I would like an epp that compares the difference between the TOS characters actors played vs new rules. Like the 3 Klingons and the Dr. Polaski...I think she was a psychic in TOS. But one on the actress would be dope.
I get the feeling that Steve may specifically want to do an "Is Lwaxana Troi actually a sexual predator?" episode. It's something that gets argued about a lot in Star Trek groups.
Pilot episode 1st officer!!! & Voice for the main computer for starters. Not to mention the input she must of have had behind the scenes along side Gene Roddenberry, even back in the day (Guess the tv controlling people wasn't ready for a Female to be in control.)
@@jasontodd9 perhaps let's not title sexual Predatory
Blasphemy! Lwaxana Troi is hands down one of my favourite recurring characters in any Star Trek show. She is so incredibly charming and literally steals any scene she appears in. I love the weird relationship she and Odo had together.
“I like it when the bad guys win.”
That was Curzon. 100%. The dude who was blood brothers with a Klingon and always ready to get drunk and throw hands. If anything he was probably just disappointed that Sisko took Eddington alive.
One of the Trill joined to Dax was a serial killer, so it's not even just that.
My BFF, Capt. Christopher Pike and I would like to say yes, there would be disabled people in the Star Trek future. I also seem to remember an episode about Mr. Worf where he was almost crippled. In the end, a bit of risky surgery returned him to duty, but everyone else seemed to think it would be okay to be disabled. I would also like to add, with lots of flat, wide, carpeted corridors and elevators, it would be a lot easier to be disabled in the Star Trek future.
The irony of that is that in the one episode of TNG that did feature a "wheelchair" the prop used was apparently do big to actually fit through the doors.
That said, I think the issue (from a world building sense) is that ST medical tech is depicted as being able to cure almost anything in short order except when the plot of the week suddenly requires an exception.
Steve, thanks for cutting through the noise about disabilities in Trek; we, now and here, need to see and get comfortable with people who are different from us. Bring on the wheelchairs and prosthetics.
Not that I'm saying we can't always use more representation, but honestly, I think ST from TNG onward has done more of that than most shows (especially during its 80's/90's run). Star Trek was one of the only shows I watched as a kid that had ANY real representation of the disabled community. Also, with sci fi in general, it's entirely reasonably to posit a time when there might be far less use for mobility and adaptive aides. That's not saying disabled people are broken, but at the same time a lot of us struggle with things like physical pain and limitations that advancing tech may some day relieve (which indeed has already happened relative to our own past)
Hover-chairs and prosthetics.
I mean there's a few aliens that need exo-skeletons to get about. So why not hunans?
I am not hearing anything about the GQP MAGA tRumpers cult members who are the disabled people who are destructive and violent. These people would be shunned by even the Klingons. I would see the Federation making a example of these assclowns and trying to control their lives to prevent them from causing damage to the utopia they worked so hard to create. Peace loving and productive work ethic who try to better their community and their lives would be accepted by the Federation and Star Trek powers with open arms. The group that could be compared to evolved baboons throwing feces and violent behavior trying to rebel against humanity scared to death of technology and medical science trying to help them would never be acceptable to the Star Trek Universe.
There's no reason to not fix problems that would make it difficult for people to live their best life on their own terms in series.
Except for the eugenic wars.
I'd still have fibromyalgia in the trek universe because of the ban on genetic editing. There'd just be better pills for it.
Given better medication, prosthetics, and a lack of actual cures you'd see more and more people with cybernetic enhancements and a dependence on medication because there'd be no evolutionary pressure against it and no technology to correct a more and more error filled genome.
It'd be a very different series if they leaned into that though
Steve Shives: Hater of Trois.
I will say, I’m pretty neutral on Lwaxana, (and Deanna for that matter), but I disagree with your point in one of your more recent videos about the quality of her acting. I think Majel Barrett did a great job of portraying her cloying, manipulative, and overbearing nature.
One thing that I don't understand about Lwaxana's telepathic ability was how she manages to get pregnant by Ian Troi if she's really able to read his mind and knew his intention to make love to her: I would have thought that her telepathic ability would have forewarned Lwaxana that Ian wanted to make love to her regardless of whether he actually had feelings of affection.
As for Lwaxana's "overbearing nature," it's no better or worse than any other in-law who interferes with their kids' lives. In the non Star Trek world, there's the comedy series "Everybody Loves Raymond," whose main character, Ray Romano, had a Mom who was portrayed by the very able Doris Roberts. Nearly 50 years ago, TV viewers were treated to the "Mothers-in-Law" with Eve Arden and Kaye Ballard, who both made their kids' married lives harder whenever they came over uninvited. Ditto with the TV show "Bridget Loves Birney," where a Gentile woman played by Meredith Baxter marries a Jewish guy played by David Berney, and they have to cope with interfering in-laws. Lastly, let's not forget Endora, played by Agnes Moorehead and portraying Elizabeth Montgomery's Samantha Steven's Mom. Endora was a witch who constantly interfered with her children's lives while they raised their little girl, Tabitha, a little witch herself.
I would have to agree. Mahel Roddenberry was definitely one of the type of actors whose performance is directly related to the direction given. You can tell when there's a good director on an Lewuxana episode versus a mediocre one
Deanna Troi has no problems interacting with and relating to Data, despite not being able to read his emotions. She would certainly need to adjust, but she would. In fact, a great story could have been using her friendship with Data to help her adjust.
If you wanted to expand on the ships having a sense of place: The Enterprise (all of them) are the house that your grandparents built and your parents and you grew up in and every time you go back someone has done a massive renovation and it looks completely different but everyone still lives there so it still feels like home. DS9 is your first apartment that is absolute trash and something is always breaking but your neighbours are all really awesome (you think that one guy might be ex-KGB, but he fixes your clothes without charging you so it's kind of whatever). Voyager is the condo you moved to after your career took off, and its one one the nicest places you've lived, but dude, you have the weirdest neighbours; like that guy who is always cooking and keeps showing up at your door trying to get you to have some and its awful but he's just so genuinely friendly that you can't bring yourself to tell him to piss off.
Picard is basically your parents sold the house and moved to the country (or another country) to retire because they can't stand "city life" anymore but somehow end up traveling away from the country to different cities.
Discovery is a corporation went in, bought an old warehouse and turned it into "modern housing" in an effort to gentrify the neighbourhood. Everything chrome, visible ductwork and exposed brick to "keep the character of the original building".
I ❤ this comment🤗
Visible ductwork is one of the best features in the DSC setting (that were visible in TOS too, BTW). There's a story of a US nuclear submarine that was lost (maybe just lost many of her crew) because, in keeping with the aesthetics of a modern Navy with space age powerplants, the ductwork were kept hidden. So, nobody noticed when an important pipe started leaking.
I couldn't find any reference to this, and I'm quoting from memory on an article read decades ago, but even if that was complete fabrication, the basic idea is still sound: In a working environment, you don't make inspections any harder than they need to be. Hence, one of many reasons why I never liked the 24th. century shipbuilding philosophy. they seemed to be building resorts when they should've been designing working machines.
"No no it's neo-classic, just like your Grandparents!"
Re: DS9's resembling my first apartment, that was NOT my situation: While attending American University in the early 80s as a grad student, I leased an efficiency on the ground floor in a row of low-rise apartment buildings on Wisconsin Ave in DC for over three years. I don't remember my neighbors, but I do remember my beautiful, patient landlady who owned a cat. That first apartment hardly broke down, and I loved living there because I could afford to do so both as a grad student on a student loan and as a paid intern with Montgomery County (MD).
Regarding the DS9 neighbor who was like an ex-KGB person, are you referring to Garak the Cardassian tailor? Yeah, he was great. Regarding whether Voyager was "a condo where I lived after my career took off", ah, no it wasn't. When I first started working for Uncle Sam as a permanent employee, my first apartment was a co-op in Rosslyn, not a condo. But at least that first apartment, the next one after it, and my first purchased home was located in an urban that was constantly under construction, not stuck in Neutral like Voyager in the Delta Quadrant for 7 years. Actually, the EMH working in the Voyager's Sickbay was the annoying neighbor and Neelix was the annoying chef upstairs whose recipes ended up driving us neighbors up the proverbial walls with the weird odors. If there were roaches in the 24th century, their equivalent--voles--were the ones who could stand to deal with the odors emitted by Neelix's kitchen better than me.
The thing about the Pakleds that I think a lot of people miss is that they're actually super smart. Their ability to communicate verbally is limited, and that lulls people into the assumption that they're not intelligent, an erroneous assumption that many people in the real world fall into. But both Samaritan Snare and the Lower Deck finale clearly indicate how intelligent they actually are.
The thing I always got from the Pakleds is that they stole their technology. So the problem is that they don't understand any of it because it isn't theirs but at the same time they tricked or forced someone else into giving it to them so there's obviously a cleverness there.
I don't think I would call them "super smart" but they are definitely smarter than people give them credit for.
@@kokukokubin6092 Which then leads to the Pakleds destroying a Starfleet vessel in the Lower Deck finale.
I like that they are slow to learn new things, but are voracious in their hunt for new knowledge. Once they get something, they seem to take a LONG time to learn it, but once they do learn, they know it intimately. They have technologies from a hundred different species all working in perfect synchronization without fail, Starfleet could barely manage ONE alien technology (Cardassian) integrated with theirs without major malfunctions (DS9). Others see this as a weakness (wow their shields suck, so they use Bolian ones, they must be weak), but in reality they are a lot like starfleet, using the best technology they can get for that particular function. I believe they were intended to work on a microscopic level, learning from the bottom up and cannot learn if ANY steps are skipped, but they understand their own weaknesses and exploit that by getting others to do quick dirty integration, then, once installed, they go and take it apart molecule by molecule to learn it.
One thing I think a lot of people miss is that the Pakleds seem to be uncreative. Which has the side effect of them being somewhat gullible in situations where they face the unknown(such as encountering the Enterprise D). It's also likely why their own technology is relatively primitive. They're very capable of learning how things work and how to integrate multiple species technology together and even replicate it. It's just that they have a hard time coming up with advancements on their own. It may also be why their language is so limited. The lack of creativity among them leads them to just only invent words and phrases as necessary, to communicate to a satisfactory, if basic level. The result is that they don't really invent complicated wording, or phrases, because it just doesn't occur to them that they can. Once they do have something that can serve a purpose for them though, they adapt to it and reverse engineer it very quickly.
Of course, Spock claiming ancestry to Sherlock could have been the 23rd century equivalent of 'my great-great-grandmother was a Cherokee princess.' A family myth with little to no basis in reality. I honestly think this is the best answer.
What Quark uses was also the roman idea of "Armed Peace" when if you have a strong army and weapons you can acquire a lot not for the war itself but of the threat about a bloodbath that would destroy much things; in a very foreshadowing way this is also a motto of Roman Army and the title of one episode in Discovery Season 1 "Si Vis Pacem Parabellum"(If you wanna peace prepare for war)
Topic question: yes, for sure. That was the point of making Geordi blind. Technology can help disabled people live more fulfilling lives, but ultimately genetic defects and injuries will continue to exist because the Federation is not a eugenicist state
Yes, but conditions like blindness (among many other disabling conditions) are generally not genetic and often stem from things like fetal or birth injuries which ST theoretically should be able to avoid/treat with their level of medical tech.
It's also unclear exactly how far the Federation ban of genetic engineering goes. They clearly ban "designer" genetics, but it's somewhat less clear if that would extend to everything.
@@Tim85-y2q True, but I also think from a creative perspective it’s a great thing to show people with disabilities that “you belong in our perfect vision of the future, too”
Was waiting for an "in your case, right about here" when pointing to the heart on the Spock doll.
Geordi La Forge is blind without his visor in the next generation series
As was covered in detail in the earlier video.
Geordi! Ends up seeing without his visor.
I had never realised Zek’s actor was in the Princess bride but the moment you said it I was like “holy cow it was him!”
Must’ve been the ferengi makeup
That was really him? Inconceivable! (Sorry, I had to!)
The voice was always a dead giveaway for me. But he is absolutely unrecognizable in the makeup.
"Rain Man Voltron team" is going to occupy a portion of my mind until the day I die and I do not regret it haha
I remember there an episode in the second season TNG where Geordi was given an option by Dr. Pulaski to "fix" his vision. Geordi turns it down as he actually sees more with his visor than he could have with normal vision. And I fell Geordi had that right to refuse that procedure as it could strongly impact his life going forwards.
I commented here or elsewhere that Geordi could make that decision easily without even considering whether he had the financial wherewithal to have the procedure performed. In the 24th century economy where there was no poverty on Earth or some parts of the Federation, almost every Federation citizen had access to excellent health care provided regardless of income levels. Compare that situation to what Bones McCoy encounters in the ST TOS novel "Doctor's Orders," (written by Diane Duane) where he meets with a Klingon Commander who has heart trouble and mentions to McCoy (who's sitting in the center seat by Kirk's orders) that he can't afford cardiovascular surgery. McCoy is bothered by the notion that the Klingon can't afford a procedure, and offers to do the surgery at no cost to the Klingon.
In addition, in another ST TOS novel, "The IDIC Epidemic", written by Jean Lorrah, another Klingon officer who suffered from astimagtism which kept him from military service as a younger man, underwent a Federation medical procedure at no cost to him or his family. Contrast these situations happening in the 23rd and 24th centuries where poverty is unknown and where people have access to excellent medical care to what's happening right now: people needing to decide whether to pay to put food on the table vs. medications because Medicaid isn't available to them as a result of politics.
He didn't turn it down immediately though, which I think made it an even better scene. She told him the options, he asked about the risks, she explained them, including that the current prosthetics weren't as good as the VISOR, and that there was a chance that the procedure to grow new eyes would completely fail. He told her he had to think about it... and then later turned her down. It was very realistic, and a good set of scenes.
I had a flash back over Tasha and gangs...
Watched it cold on tv with parents, grand parents, younger nephew and two Neices
There are also some injuries that medical science in Star Trek have not fully figured out how to fix. Worf was injured when a storage container fell on him and broke his spine. Dr Crusher was not able to fix his back so she had to get help from a specialist. However eve that there was no assurance that it would work.
I think a big part of what gives Enterprise-D and DSN9 that lived in feel is we get to see where people go to just hang out (10 Forward and Quark’s). Discovery has the cafeteria but it’s just a cafeteria, it doesn’t have the distinctive vibe that 10 Forward has (and obviously no Gainen).
Interesting thoughts on the portrait of Unions in Star Trek in Bar Association. It is so rare to see a US TV show do a pro-union show like that. I do love it is the Irish and British characters who talk to Rom about the union and enjoy betting on who will pass the picket line and who won’t. I always thought of this as a subtle jab by the writers on how unions are thought of in the US. My wife recently introduced me to WKRP in Cincinnati and that show has a union episode where were supposed (I think) to symphysis with the station manager for undermining the union. For context, I grew up in Ireland and was a member of 3 different unions when lived there. Now I live in Canada.
I think it's cyclic. WKRP was made in the late 1970s, right before Reagan came in, which was probably the low ebb of American sympathy for the labor movement. Things are turning around now. So many workers here don't have unions and they're feeling the sting of that.
"Before you know it, I'll just be bones in a grave."
You need to up your transhumanism, Steve. I, for one, intend to live forever (so far, so good).
I think one of the things Steve establishes very strongly in this episode is that he's not down with transhumanism.
@@josephpotter5766 more cybernetic parts for us transhumanists ;)
Man jumped off a 40-floor building. As he fell, people inside the window at each floor on the way down could hear him saying: "so far, so good..."
Troi I think didn't actually compare herself as a blind person, in fact she slapped down everyone that tried to compare her loss to being blind or deaf.
You raise the question about whether or not Geordi would accept having his sight returned. In "Hide and Q" where Riker is given the powers of the Q, he DOES restore Geordi's sight. After seeing Tasha through natural eyes, citing that it would be too high a price to pay {losing Riker to the Q} he begs Riker to restore him to what he was. In the same episode, Data refuses to be made human.
The bit with the Spock doll was moving in a ha-ha-only-serious way.
I just watched a TikTok by a deaf woman where she said if they discovered a cure for deafness she would reject it. I too would reject a “cure” for autism.
Plus as to weather Geordi would accept of reject an opportunity to get his sight back he has that conversation in loud as a whisper where he says blindness is a part of him and he likes who he is. (Which I don’t remember if you mentioned)
I have cerebral palsy and if my mom could have "fixed" when I was younger I would not have been angry at her in the least. She did have the doctors fix me as much as the times allowed (late 60s early 70s).
I would be interested to see if there’s a strong correlation to generations, and if there’s a generational attitude sort of thing. I’ve seen lots of younger folks with Cerebral Palsy online posting about how much they hate this societal focus on curing/eliminating. Similar to my experiences in autistic communities.
Same. There's a difference (IMHO) between saying disabled people aren't broken in the sense we are full and complete people worthy of dignity and saying "you know, all things being equal, I would rather not have to deal with certain frustrating aspects of my disability". If I could "cure" my CP, I absolutely would, in a heartbeat.
@@kaitlyn__L I think it's somewhat generational, but I think there's also a strong element of personal preference. I'm still fairly young (early to mid 30's) and not only do I not share the disdain common among some in the CP community for a focus on "curing"/I absolutely cannot relate to it, at all, at I know many others who feel the same way. (many of us would absolutely love some sort of cure.) I don't think that makes either viewpoint less valid, just that we all process the experience of our disabilities in different ways. It's an extremely personal subject and set of experiences.
@@Tim85-y2q I’m in my 50s, I’m the 1960s/1970s older people would come up to our parents and asked why we weren’t put in a home somewhere. Away from everyone else. In our society, we are not wanted.
President Franklin Delenor Rosevelt had polio. That fact was hidden for decades. Even today, his handicapped existence is never expanded on.
Polio was “cured”
Nobody’s saying “Damn! Shame there aren’t any polio kids around. We could use another FDR”
It’s far more complex than that. Handicapped people are not wanted by society and they are not wanted by evolutionary selection. Yet we exist because science and society have made strides.
At one time society wanted us to be shunted off and hidden. Many of our parents tried to raise us as independently as they could. There were also parents who taught their children that they are helpless.
Then you need to throw in if you were born handicapped or became handicapped. Rich or poor.
If your handicap is part of your identity or you deem it a limitation.
Part of the issue with Bashir though Is it is one thing if that's what he wanted, but it was done without his consent and hidden from him. To a certain extent yes, parents are a very important part in consent for children with medical procedures, but especially for something like that the child should have a say in their own personhood. A great example is to turn to people who had cochlear implants done as children, and they regret their parents making that choice for them. There are many people who are happy to have that implant but they made that choice.
Also to turn to the more fantastical part of it, he had his body and mind radically changed in a very body horror way, and he understandably asks himself how much of his present day self is actually him versus the treatment his parents forced on him.
TNG & DS9: "We have Luxanna Troi, we have the most annoying character in Sci-Fi history."
Star Wars: "We have Jar Jar Binks."
Voyager: "Am I late to the party? We have Neelix."
As someone with a learning challenge (ASD + ADHD), I choose to believe they'd be able to give me some sort of mind expansion like a working memory module and emotional intelligence software. My conditions, while making live at times difficult. They have granted me the ability to see the world in different ways, sometimes granting a deeper understanding than a neurotypical person.
Thanks!
That Zek impression was PERFECT.
Grand Nagus: Ha-ha, you fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is “Never get involved in a land war in Asia,” but only slightly less well known is this: “Never go in against a Ferengi, when profit is on the line!”
*falls over dead*
😆
To the guy talking about the Army:
I enlisted as a medic for field hospitals. I also have asparagus and EDS.
I think the terror for Pike was that he was assaulted with his future. It wasn't so much that he was in a wheelchair, it was that his mind was transported to his future self and forced to experience the realities of his traumatic future in an instant.
In my opinion Anson Mount did a excellent job in portraying the more conceptual terror of what Pike was going through. To me it was very clear, by reading the emotion of the scene and how Pike handles himself after he has has the knowledge of his future self.
He persists, and it strengthens his resolve and he accepts his fate in a way that I find inspiring.
Now, if there was scene right after that showed Pike googling for "Bitchin' robot legs" I'd say there may be an issue.
Hey Steve, I just listened to your response to Deanna Troy losing her empathic abilities. While I agree with you that she would adjust and function without her abilities, that doesn't consider how she would be viewed or treated by other betazoids or within her own culture.
Can we also talk about how characters like Odo hit differently from when we were children to how they hit us now, as adults? for example, when I was a kid, Odo for sure had that 'cop' persona and fulfilled my sense of justice within the show. But now, as an adult, my sense of fulfillment I get from Odo is one of a conflicted romanticist. Very different vibes, and it makes me wonder how many other characters have similar arcs within ourselves at one age to the next.
I'm blind in one eye, I sure as hell would want something to fix that, rather than having to overcome my disability.
Hey Steve, y'know what would be a great topic for a video? An expansion on the "How DS9 saved the Ferengi" video, into a larger discussion on how DS9 portrayed cultural diversity/engaged in worldbuilding among its alien species.
One of my FAVOURITE things about DS9 were the little details the writers put into the show to differentiate alien cultural customs from humans: e.g. how Ferengi pray/give thanks with their wrists together, how Bajorans clap with one hand against the back of another, how food dishes had unique names like Hasperat (as opposed to generic names like "Talaxian stew"), etc. What it said to me was that the DS9 writers weren't content to just take the lazy route of having all alien species default to following the same cultural customs as (American-centric) humans, and that made the show feel more believable and 'real' to me as a result.
Can we all just appreciate how good that Zek impression was?
I've noticed Odo too. I also noticed Warf being on the spectrum as well as Quark in addition to Bashir.
I greatly appreciate how you brought up plarb(spelling) the pakled and his courtroom response. I have this problem a lot and have struggled with it quite a bit, it has taken me 40 years to understand that when people ask questions of that nature they are trying to lead me and not actually asking the question they are asking, also it makes me more than a little upset that people ask such questions. If you want to ask "will you please describe the events of the day?" WHY NOT ASK THAT? WHY ASK "do you want to do a thing?"
Neurotypical people treat neuro-atypical people as weirdos because society has these "weird implied understood rules" that neuro-atypical people don't get. No no, these implied understood rules are the weird things not us.
"Lead you" implies there is no chance they value the question they are asking, and more or less trying to get you to fuck up in some degree.
The bit about answering questions honestly reminds me of my autistic nephew, who has done just that when talking to a police officer. I can understand that way of thinking, it took me a while to understand the more complex nature of communication and still sometimes fail.
I often find myself looking for the 'like' button on your videos only to find I've already clicked it
Wallace Shawn’s essay “Why I Am A Socialist” is worth a read too. Nice that Zek’s character grew in that direction.
What if, the reason that the history of the Star trek universe diverges from ours is because Sherlock Holmes was real in the Star Trek universe?
Sherlock Holmes is a canonically fictional character in Star Trek. I think this was an example of Spock telling a joke.
Spock tells jokes... like the old Vulcan Proverb "Only Nixon could go to China"
Exactly. That's how I read Spock's comment alluding to his "ancestor" being Sherlock Holmes. It reads to me like a joke - and yes indeed, Spock has a superbly witty, dry sense of humor.
@@NeverDoneEver Interesting parrel to Worf there who's more Klingon then most Klingons.
Oh, yeah. That was told in the beginning of ST TOS VI Movie, "The Undiscovered Country" after the meeting with Admiral Cartwright. Just mentioning that "old Vulcan Proverb" begs the question: How would the Vulcans know about Nixon and China unless American TV signals reached Vulcan after traveling 10-12 light years between 1972 (the year Nixon visited China) and when Sarek was a kid on Vulcan during the 22nd century?
Yes Steve, it was inconceivable that you forgot to mention how great Zec was 😀
Now I'm picturing Bones standing in an open grave, kind of glaring at whoever is standing on the edge. like help me out of this godforsaken hole
Wasn’t there a betazed character in Voyager who didn’t have any empathic, nor telepathic abilities that was born that way who became a psychologically imbalanced murderer? He was the guy who played Chucky in the Child’s Play movies?
Suter, played by the great Brad Dourif.
There’s a great essay on Star Trek dot com by a bipolar author who wrote about relating to Suder.
@@st.anselmsfire3547 voyager isn’t my favourite of the shows though I like it a bit more than Steve, that was definitely a stand out episode, he’s an amazing actor but kind of stuck with those kind of characters. Think I’ll have to rewatch it for the exact storyline though.
I don't mind economics. I resent that people forget the most valuable asset is people, and undervalue them.
I lost hope for economics the day they invented "human ressources"
Man - i had JUST taken a big sip of cola before that "where you were touched" bit. Thanks for ruining my keyboard.
Lwaxana Troi, Daughter of the Fifth House, Keeper of the Sacred Chalice of Rixx, and Heir to the Holy Rings of Betazed, has a large fanbase?
The devil you say.
We march at dawn!
Listening to you sing "Lifeforms" brought me mucho joy. Thanks for that :)
I'm of two minds on this, On the one hand the fact that Star Trek as a setting is depicted as having virtually unlimited medical tech (except when required by the plot), it seems to me they probably should be able to correct/treat/etc. most disabling conditions, on the other hand, as a disabled individual I like that Star Trek tends to depict adaptive devices as allowing disabled characters to compensate for their disabilities without necessarily acquiring all the physical abilities they would have if they were completely able bodied, that's pretty much how it works in real life but is rarely portrayed that way in fiction. (ie. La Forge's visor allows him to see, but doesn't give him normal vision)
I agree with you that the excellent medical care provided by Starfleet and the Federation to all Federation citizens regardless of income levels has a lot to do with the setting of the series--22nd to 24th centuries--as well as the plot. That's why I'm pleased that no character in the ST universe ever has to plead with authorities to let them to either refuse treatment (in Geordi's case with the ocular implants) or in Ensign Melora's case to accept help in the form of a special chair designed for her by Julian Bashir at no cost to Melora.
Compare the future setting of the Federation vs. the fact that our country, a very wealthy nation, can't seem to provide decent care to our citizens because politicians controlling Red States don't want to accept Federal help in expanding Medicaid. I'm sure Roddenberry must have seen this situation during the 60s, before Medicare was enacted in '65, when he started thinking, "What if our world in the future had no poverty, food was available to everybody, and all had access to medical care? That's the future I want to be in, and that's why I created Star Trek to reflect that future."
Its unfortunate that we have used "slow" in such a negative and patronizing way, because it could have been a really useful and sympathetic way of describing cognitive and intellectual disabilities. Most people with cognitive disabilities are competent people, it may just take them more time to do certain tasks or reach conclusions. Or they may reach milestones later than their peers. They get there eventually, but may be slower. They just need accommodations.
But, of course, we have gone down the road of patronizing intellectually disabled persons with this language, and that is a sad reality.
I don't think having a guy in a wheelchair completely breaks the world, but I think it robs from the aspirational aspect of Star Trek. In a way, I feel (physically) disabled people may see people like them in Star Trek and think "I exist, I'm being representated". But they may also see people like them in Star Trek and think "Hell, even the the 24th century I wouldn't be able to walk? What kind of aspirational future is that!?" Now, there will always be disability, but it can be overwhelmingly reduced. And that is what an aspirational future is supposed to look like! I, for instance, am HIV positive. Having HIV positive people existing and living meaningful lives in a show set in the present such as, dunno, Riverdale, feels right. Even having people with HIV in a distant but grim future like The Expanse feels right. They feel like representation. Having HIV positive people in Star Trek would not feel like representation, it would feel like a curse, like they are saying to me that even in this aspirational, proto-utopian future I would still have to live with the virus. No thanks.
Again, disability will always exist, and yes, it should be shown. But in a future that is supposed to be better than now, it should be at least largely reduced.
This is really frustrating because the eradication of disabled people is not aspirational; that’s just the history of eugenics.
For the sake of realism, they have fucking sentient rocks that are Federation members. Surely they have the ability to make their spaceships accessible to members of all species, some that can’t see in the same wavelengths of light, some that can’t hear, some that need to be warmer or colder or at completely different pressures.
The ableism is that people keep talking about fixing disabilities but what’s a disability is entirely defined by ableism and what’s “normal” now. We’re not giving people extra thumbs or cyber brains or a second spine. A Klingon with a human body would commit suicide because it was so “disabled.”
A Federation future that’s aspirational is one where accessibility is prioritized, and that future also makes a ton of sense if you’re saying you want to create spaces where dozens or hundreds of species can meet and interact on equal terms. That ought to easily extend to humans who can’t walk but have other sorts of mobility, humans that degrade because of age, and humans that are injured, as will always happen.
If Pike is “disfigured” but no one cares, that’s not a disability. If he’s immobilized but has the ability to move himself around, that’s not a disability. If he can’t speak but he can communicate because people understand the beeps or it utilizes the universal translator, that’s not a disability. If he needs someone to assist him with bathing, healthcare, etc., but there are people in the Federation with that job, it’s a disability but all sorts of people need help with stuff like that, and eventually most of us will if we get old enough.
In a world where it’s normal to wear glasses and contacts and we can increase the size of text on our web browsers, where there’s alt text and text to speech, failing eyesight is not a disability. In a world where everyone is expected to have perfect sight to get by with no accessibility devices, it is.
Eliminating disability isn't the same as eliminating disabled people. What kind of perverse worldview sees increasing an individual's mental and physical capabilities as some sort of attack?
Imagine become paralyzed from the neck down. Saying that's not a disability is ridiculous, and self-evidently so. Get real.
They didn't just tie Data down and give him emotions. The emotion chip was made by his creator (it just took longer than making Data himself). The point is, Data was given the choice to accept the emotion chip, and he chose to install it. So there's nothing wrong with it on that level.
He has also, on occasion, declined to bring it with him. Star Trek: Insurrection, for instance.
Really good point
Yeah, I think there's such a pushback at times to the notion of disabled people being broken (which we're not) that it sometimes obscures the very real fact that if many of us had the opportunity to do something that would alleviate our disabilities (whatever they may be) we would. Data WANTS to be more human and there's nothing wrong with that (even though he was a complete and dignified being as he was)
You would think that a technology that realized universal translators could give Pike a voice.
I'm surprised, considering Roh-baw-tik-voice,they didn't consider that for Pike.
I’m a disabled person both physically and mentally, and I feel that a lot of people accept my outer disabilities (though even with that I get assholes who don’t care), my mental disabilities are constantly questioned and people show impatience because they just don’t understand and many don’t bother to talk to me or just ask me about it. I would be happy to explain Borderline Personality Disorder to anyone who legitimately wants to learn.
I grew up watching Star Trek: TNG from a very young age, it's one of the first TV shows that I remember watching (alongside Classic Doctor Who) because my parents would put it on all the time, and there were some disturbing aspects of the show that created vivid, lasting memories for me. Some examples include the shot of Riker lying dead with a piece of metal sticking out of his neck in Yesterday's Enterprise, the Barclay spider-monster from Genesis, the corpses in bags sitting up in the morgue in Night Terrors, the bit where Riker and Picard melt a man's face off in Conspiracy, the brainwashed crew forcing Wesley to play the game in The Game, the list goes on. I wouldn't have missed it for the world though, my childhood was awesome.
In Star Trek Online the Pakleds are just a part of the Federation and no one talks about it. But you can also be a Gorn officer in the Klingon fleet, so who knows?
The Pakleds are Federation members?
@@MaraAlis Only in Star Trek Online, which isn't considered a canon source.
As a disabled person (neurodivergent) I would hate and resent and reject a fix. I love my disabilities. I could not imagine life without them.
You only believe that because you can't be fixed, and thus have learned to cope and adjust your self-image. If it could have been corrected before your self-identity and pride became embedded in it, you'd be thankful.
I am sorry that someone would reject your lived experience without any evidence.
We all have differences which make us individuals. I for one am glad that you accept your whole self and recognize your own superpowers!
Infinite diversity in infinite combinations!
I wonder how many quadriplegics would agree with you.
@@laralongstaff5139
One disability ≠ another.
@@BlackCover95 Exactly my point really. I got the sense he was painting with a fairly broad brush, there.
Regarding disabilities, It is my understanding that there is not just a deaf community, but an entire deaf culture. I recall stories a few years back regarding cochlear implants and "fixing" deaf kids. I just find it interesting is all. I enjoyed the entire discussion in this video.
The talk about Ferengi and Klingons has me wondering. Could you do well having an alien species that *does* have a fundamentally different psychology, but are still clearly people?
This is interesting - could you provide an example or two of what you would consider fundamentally different psychology?
I sometimes think that psychopaths/sociopaths that engage in anti-social behaviour are doing so partly because they live in world controlled and influenced by people who are nothing like them - which kinda drives them insane.
I thought that the Borg, when originally introduced, was an example of a species with a fundamentally different psychology. From its point of view, as a hive mind, assimilating other species is doing them good, by including them in its perfection. To it, the needs and wants of individuals of other species is as irrelevant as the needs and wants of cells of our bodies are to us. The only problem is that the Borg does not ask whether people would like to be assimilated, but that's because whether they would like it or not is irrelevant, according to the reasoning in the previous sentence. If you were having a liver transplant, would you ask the liver first whether it would like to be made into a part of your body?
Then Star Trek: First Contact ruined everything by inventing the Borg Queen. From then on, they were just bad guys, with the same morals as us but deliberately choosing to be bad.
IMHO they do that a bit with Worf. He's about as fully assimilated to Federation culture as it's possible for a Klingon to be and yet he still holds views and values that are sometimes very alien to those of the Federation.
I kept waiting for you to point out to Matheus Froes that Geordi, in fact, had the opportunity to get his sight back several times! Crusher mentioned it in "Encounter at Farpoint," Pulaski brought it up in season 2, and Riker actually did restore Geordi's sight in "Hide and Q." In all three cases Geordi refused having normal vision. Love watching your videos, by the way!!
IIRC Crusher and Pulaski were talking about the sort of implants he got in the movies, not actually restoring his vision and in Hide and Q it was clearly framed as his not wanting to be in debt to Q. OTOH in a couple episodes (off the top of my head, The Naked Now), he does express something of a longing for normal vision
At best, I think you can say they present something of a mixed bag in regards to Geordi's feelings on the matter.
@@Tim85-y2q Pulaski did offer to attempt to regenerate the optic nerve and grow him new eyes, but explained that it might not work. She also told him that the prosthetics weren't as good, and he'd lose a small portion of his current visual range.
I think that is a perfect example of how Starfleet would handle disability. "These are the ways you can still do your job. These are the risks of each. Whatever you choose, we'll make it work."
holy shit, Shives acknowledging Enterprise? am I hallucinating?
Re: Pike - Don't forget the episode was written in the 60s so their ability to even imagine what could be done for the differently abled is very different from what we know we can do (Kenneth Mitchell on Discovery).
That’s a good point. It’s easy to look at how much medical and social technology we have that’s specifically designed for disabled and differently abled to interact with the rest of world on a near-equal level. Even Stephen Hawking had his wheelchair with the talk box. But he became wheelchair bound in the 80s.
Thinking about Lwaxana Troi I can understand a lot of the dislike for her. She's very over the top and annoying some times. That being said the scene with Odo in the turbolift is one of the sweetest scenes in start trek and completely redeems the character in my eyes.
My first introduction to Lwaxana was “Dark Page” in TNG, followed by her two DS9 episodes, so I always had a lot of time for her. Instead of being the annoying person who eventually had some great stories, she was a a very interesting and complex character who also did some bad comedy.
Regarding Lwaxana's proclivity to make out with almost every species and race within the Federation and outside of it, she's a little like Kirk, Riker, and Picard because those characters also have the ability to make out with almost any kind of species and race within the Federation and outside of it. Either character can get away with doing so because neither Kirk, Riker and Picard is married and Lwaxana is a widow. All of them can experiment by having romantic flings whenever they want.
For example, recall how Lwaxana, Deanna and Riker all get abducted by the Ferengi in the episode "Menage a Troi", and you'll see how Lwaxana almost want to make out with one of the Ferengi if they allow the other captives to return to the Enterprise. That situation and the one you describe in your posting, IMHO, redeems Lwaxana's ability and desire to make love to anybody she wants, whether it's a shape-shifter like Odo; Dr. Timicin, a scientist from Kaelon II; a Ferengi; or a human like Picard or Ian Troi. What annoys the Klingons is that Kirk, who can make out with any species or race, also has the ability to kick their butts in battle.
In a Star Trek future the notion of reasonable accommodation would probably become so commonplace that it wouldn't occur to people that you would ever not do it. The breen need full body suits to leave their ships because they evolved on a planet with what we think of as an extreme environment. In ds9 Melora is from a low gravity planet and the difficulty that causes if frankly unrealistic. The Star Trek future couldn't exist if we didn't come to grips with this.
I'm on the Spectrum, and yeah, felt a connection with Data. The thing that mattered for me was that even if he seemed to be short a few human qualities, he expressed extraordinary virtues. He was courageous, loyal, understanding, humble, and wanting to live life to the fullest. The way they ended his character is ridiculous.
You need to do 2 Lwaxana videos. 1 where you try to be fair and balanced, and 1 where you're brutally honest and shred her.
wow - that 'sense of place' really made me think - I think that all of the SF series (the ones that have a primary science fiction location) that I love, have that particular quality.
The ending with the doll made me laugh so hard that I snortled like a pig!
For a Ferengi Zek was an incredibly friendly dude, easily one of my favorite characters.
especially after a visit with the Prophets.
Thanks for pointing out that many of the so-called "disabled" resent even being considered disabled. Some years ago I became aware of an entire deaf culture who really don't care a lot about interacting with the hearing world. They can communicate and understand each other just fine and if you can't it's probably because you never bothered to learn sign language.
I recently learned that this "weird"ness I've grown up with is probably Asperger's (I know, that's not the DSM term anymore, it's just the one I learned). I've never known why I felt so different from everyone else, but I always knew I wouldn't want it to change because it's a very large part of who I am.
Rain man-Voltron......👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿.....excellent work.
So, I agree that the depiction of Pike could be problematic, largely because there are so few characters who use mobility aids. I also know, as a disabled person who uses mobility aids, that a non disabled version of me would probably be quite scared of that fate. I think that Pike's story has elements of truth. There's potential for a nuanced story about becoming disabled but it has never been told from post disability Pike's perspective. They probably won't but it'd be neat if the new Pike show did that.
Pike with Hawking-voice?
Oh, I would love if you did a video about Bashir. There's so much to dissect about both his parents' actions and also Julian's emotions about his enhancements. I feel like even with his learning disabilities "fixed", there's still a lot that reads very neurodivergent about his personality.
Frankly, on whether Pike can communicate in Morse code or use beeps for yes or no, my "head canon" has been to say most people don't know Morse code off the top of their head, and so yes/no is how he communicates with most people ... but in general he can write and speak. My memory is fuzzy, is TOS ever prescriptive about the yes/no thing?
The part with Jadzia Dax liking the poisoning of the planet could be influenced by Curzon(who did not play by the rulebook) and from Joran(the murderer). Dax had one host that broke all type of rules and one that broke all rules and morals. Naturally some ideas from them were part of Dax.
The question of disability In star trek is an interesting topic. The thing that worries me personally, which you kind of brought up with Bashir, is is the idea of "fixing" people becoming a norm. I totally understand why someone would want say...their eye sight restored, but our culture tends to go to extremes and given the continues advances in the field of genetic science that are occurring I'm really worried that we'll eventually get a world like the one I'm GATTACA. I don't want to live in a world where we are trying to "fix" people in wheel chairs simply because someone decided that you are "broken" if you can't walk. As Georgia says to sauron in star trek: generations "what is 'normal?'"
This is why I even as a non-disabled person (well except my eyesight which I use an accommodation known as glasses) that I much prefer yeah actually in star trek disabled people exist because like Picard's baldness we got better as a people. We changed our soceity to fit them in better instead of changing them to fit society
There's a difference between "fixing" someone's genes and treating many disabilities, which are the result of some sort of injury. In those cases, curing the disability and setting a broken bone (for example) really only comes in the form of degrees.
I know you said you don't care about the in-universe explanation for the presence of disabled characters in fiction, but I think the Mass Effect series handled it really well. It's implied that as medical science has advanced we've been able to treat all of the common physical disabilities people experience today, but other conditions that people could not even survived infancy now have treatments that call for wheelchairs, ect. Seth Green's character Joker has a severe case of a condition called Vrolik's Syndrome, and says that "a few hundred years ago" (meaning our time) medical science would not have been a been able to do much for him, but in the time of Mass Effect he has a good quality of life with just a few reasonable accommodations.
34:10 Imagine dedicating your entire life to being in Starfleet. Imagine having aspirations of becoming a Captain and more. Imagine wanting a family and playing with your children and reading them stories and walking your daughter down the aisle. Imagine everything that an able bodied person could reasonably achieve and experience in their lifetime.
Now, Imagine seeing your future and having all of those hopes and dreams, as you imagined them, completely shattered. You will never walk again. You will never speak again. Interacting with the world around you and communication become excessively difficult. The immediate mental distress would be overwhelming for most people. Just converse with people who were injured and became paraplegic/quadriplegic. Most had never imagined a life in such circumstances.
Furthermore, was he horrified by being in a "wheelchair"? By not being able to verbally communicate? By seeing himself horribly disfigured/scarred? By realizing all his dreams would be eviscerated? Some combination of all and more?
It's okay to be offended by his reaction. But I can imagine the shock and horror one might experience in such a situation. There's nothing wrong with being blind. But I wouldn't want to become blind. If I did, I'd force myself to adjust and adapt but certain things I want to experience would no longer be possible. Same with becoming a quadriplegic. A huge portion of my imagined future wouldn't be possible. But I'd adapt.
I once fell out of a tree and landed on my head. I lost my vision for several minutes. I initially panicked but quickly calmed down and assessed the situation. I didn't scream in terror but I quickly imagined a life without vision. Luckily, my vision slowly returned. But it put things into perspective and made me appreciate my sight that much more.
On the topic of mental health issues/disabilities, if there was something which would completely eliminate my depression, I would take it in an instant. My anxiety and autism on the other hand, are a pretty integral part of my character at this point, and it's only a severe issue when it compounds with the depression. That depression can get screwed, though.
Airiam and Detmer are examples of respecting the subject of disability.
Airiam had to choose daily what memories to retain while Detmer works though trauma that begun with the Battle of the Binary Stars. Both have endured challenges and it's impact on their careers and relationships. Neither were simply fixed or cast aside.
I've been trudging through TOS just to listen to The Ensign's Log after each episode. :D
Love your content mate, very good. Thx