Tom Paris and Nick Locarno were the same person. Raised with his mothers surname, the scandal got Nick expelled but a year or two later his estranged father the admiral pulls some strings and gets him readmitted under a new identity but linking him to his fuckup of a son (who he previously disavowed.) And Admiral Paris owes the data forgers in S31 some big favours.
The thing about Wesley I always related to is that he was always a person out of place. He didn't fit in with other kids or people is age, but he also didn't really fit in with the adults either. He was always just on the outside of the club, regardless of what he did or which group he was with. I related to that as a kid watching the show, and relate to it still as a grown adult. I often feel like Wesley. Accepted by those around him, but never really welcomed or a part of the group.
He was my wife's favorite character growing up- she was one of those kids always in AP classes, not necessarily driven but her intelligence was recognized and so she was always pushed into educational opportunities above her grade level. She did (and does) absolutely have a gift for writing. As a kid pushed to be a higher achiever because of somewhat advanced abilities and neurodivergence, there is a lot in Wesley Crusher's character that resonates. Sure, you're smart beyond your years, but with that comes awkwardness among your peers and the sense that you'd rather hang out with the adults but also may be annoying them just because you're a kid.
Wil Wheaton is a fantastic human. Thank you for being in his corner and reminding others of that fact. Even if Wesley wasn't always well-written or his character well-handled, that's not Wil's fault. He's a very audible voice for those communities who aren't always heard, and yes, he's a damn good actor
"the first duty" is one of the most powerful episodes of startrek that i ever watched as a teenager. it has more than once influenced me to not go along with dumb ideas, and to own up to it when i fucked up. the first duty is to the truth, and i will never forget that.
I always liked Wesley, but then I was a preteen nerdy girl and he was a cute nerdy boy. My story standards were not high. Looking back I wish they had given him a different ending. The "gifted child" narrative was so pervasive at the time and for many of us it turned out rather toxic. I would love to see him turn up in Picard having gone through burnout and rebuilt, that would be a true 80s kid story. BTW young Steve is adorable.
As a pre-teen boy when all that aired I identified with Wesley the most. My favorite character moments at the time were Data, Geordi, and Wesley interactions. At that age I don’t think you even know what multi-dimensional characters are, everything else was teen sitcom roles or unchanging cartoon relationships.
Saaaaame. I was too young to hear any of the Wes hate. I’m pretty sure he was my second celebrity crush, after Joey McIntyre. I was a smart girl, he was a smart boy. He often proved the adults wrong, but had some awesome mentors. What was there to hate?
The fact that Locarno couldn't be used in Voyager due to rights issues, or more specifically, Paramount being too cheap to pay the original writers always sucked.
One should always be suspicious of any "elite" grouping of students at starfleet academy. At least Wes didn't participate in an attempted coup to install a military junta to rule the federation.
Yeah, but in the end those guys were assigned to an uber-secrect mission during the war and then, after everyone else died, ran that mission. Nothing bad happened there, right? R-right?
I feel the same way, but then again I didn't have internet comments to guide my opinion back in the day, I didn't know many trekies at school, and really only had my introverted father to bounce episode feedback off of, and he was usually asleep by the end of the show :-)
I was always a fan of Wesley. I didn't really realize how much some people dislike the character until I went to my first couple of convention. One of the ladies who work for creation con is warming up the audience before the panel came out. And when a picture of Wesley Crusher came on screen some people started the boo. The lady said and I feel to her credit that wheel is an incredibly nice person and even if you don't like his character she finds it incredibly rude that some people would actually boo him when he came on stage. As Steve said that's when people take shit way too far. If you want more Wesley Crusher I would love for Wil Wheaton to revive that character on Star Trek Picard or even on Lower decks. I know among some people I might be in the minority but again I always liked the character Wesley yes some of his lines were shity and sometime he was a little kid that they didn't know what to do with. But none of that should following Wil Wheaton.
I think Will has formally stated that he wasn’t going to go back into acting as it never really made him happy and was a life path pushed onto him by his mother. He could change his mind on that but that’s what he last said on it
I love your whole joke about Nick killing Tom Paris and stealing his identity, but I have alway thought that a simpler explanation was that Tom Paris didn’t want any special treatment because of who his father was, so he enlisted at Star Fleet Academy under a fake name. He wanted to graduate from the Academy by his own merits, not coast on the coattails of his father. This had the added bonus of not causing embarrassment for his father when he got expelled as no one knew he was the Admiral’s son.
Except that Tom Paris wasn't keen on Starfleet, and did his best to get kicked out, but his father didn't let that happen, thinking that one day, he'd get the right captain who would bring him in line. Perhaps there was a transporter malfunction in young Tom Paris' life, and his other self, just like Tom (?) Riker, had to adopt a new name. He just happened to go to the academy a few years before Tom Paris. Is that canon enough?
Oh man, that last part about how it's awful to harass actors just because their characters aren't written well/aren't liked reminds me of what happened to King Joffrey's actor Jack Gleeson, played the role so damn well that he was constantly barraged with hate from fans, just because he played an asshole character super well. Or what about the kid who played young Anakin in The Phantom Menace, poor guy had his whole life spiral because of a single meh movie.
Also the actor of Jar Jar Binks went through years of crippling depression and thoughts of suicide because of the unrelenting barrage of hate from Star Wars fans. Toxic people make toxic fans.
@@gcisbani have you watched how he treats some of his fans and trekies? there is a reason he is not well liked in trek. He is not a relatable person and he's not afraid to show you that. westly is fine. but the actor behind the Char is not
There's also the case of all the hate that Anna Gunn went through because she played Skyler White on Breaking Bad. There was a lot of really awful misogyny mixed into that one, too.
@@thing_under_the_stairssaid it once saying it again skyler did some wrong things but she was not in the wrong when it comes to the things she did that make people hate her. The people thst hate her hate her because they are toxic assholes who look up to Walter white. Same kind of jackasses thst idolize Rick Sanchez and hate Jerry.
I really appreciate this. I grow so weary of UA-cam content where "creators" just jump on the bandwagon of popular opinion, without any truly independent critical thinking. Thank you.
I would argue that the "Shut up Wesley!" moment is the one piece of writing that sunk the character for most people. It wasn't that Wesley was wrong (he wasn't), it's just that they made him super annoying and whinny about being right. To make it worse, they also made the rest of the ship's crew act so moronically that nobody else could see what was going on. I remember watching it when it came out and t felt like they were forcing this narrative that Wesley was somehow smarter and better than the highly trained crew. I was in my early teens at the time, so I was the target audience that Wesley was aimed at, and a whiny episode like that did the exactly opposite of what was intended. Honestly, what teenagers like the nerdy, know-it-all character in a show? We like the good guys, but the ones that are a bit rebellious because we (as kids) always feel like parents are telling us what to do.
TBH That was one of the relatively rare moments where I was on Wesley's side. Picard had literally just lectured the entire bridge crew about how it was not only acceptable, but somehow prudent to be suspicious of Data and then when Wesley voices the exact same concerns that Yar just had prompting said speech, Picard tells him to shut up and orders him off the bridge.
@@MrGreensweightHist That is what I hated the most. He seemed to be better than everyone at EVERYTHING even though the other people had devoted their lives to getting to that moment. Then it turned out he was actually a wonder alien?
I would argue that the "Shut up Wesley!" moment showed that it was OK to be dismissive of Wesley, because Captain Picard was the one to tell him to shut up. Captain Picard had already been established as a man of polite principle, a man of 'moral authority' by this point, and yet he thought it was OK to tell someone to shut up in front of his crew. Such a blatant sign of disrespect coming from the Captain signaled that it was OK to be disrespectful and dismissive of Wesley Crusher.
September 1987 I was 8 and that year I tested into the gifted program for 4th grade. I saw a lot of myself in Wesley. It wasn't until I got a little older that I started to realize the issues with Wesley. At the time it was great seeing a kid, not all that much older than I was (certainly closer than the next oldest crew member), get a chance to be a member of the crew.
I remember when they got rid of Wesley thinking "Aw man, I was just starting to like him." Ever since, I've been waiting for him to come back as some supremely powerful being and stop Q or dismantle a borg cube with his space magic brain. That'd be dope.
You know what should have been a great episode for Wesley? "Pen Pals". You know, the one where Data, in a mind boggling lapse of judgement that he never would have made in a million years, breaks the prime directive and starts talking to that little girl on a doomed planet? That should have been a Wesley episode. Wesley was already engaged in the B plot, but think about it: It makes waaaay more sense for Wesley to be the one who had started talking with Sarjenka. It also works perfectly with his b plot in the episode, giving him a much greater motivation. "Pen Pals" offered an opportunity to grow Wesley's character in a significant and organic way. Instead, it became one of the metric ton of "Data explores his humanity" episodes. Don't get me wrong, I love those episodes, but I think "Pen Pals" was a real missed opportunity for Wesley's character.
That's a really good point. Wesley talking to a little alien girl and then emotionally manipulating the captain to agree with saving her planet makes perfect sense for a kid on a star ship, especially Wesley, who Picard feels guilty for his father's death. What doesn't make sense is Data, the cold artificial man, playing her voice after the captain has made his decision. Like no one sat back and said "Data understands emotions better than we think" or "Data's a bit of a sociopath who'll manipulate the captain with the sad sound of a little girl's voice to get him to reverse his decision."
Given that in Wesley's final episode, he goes against Picard on the 'lets forcefully relocate a group of people who have chosen to peacefully settle on a planet' situation, I wonder if it would have been more satisfying if the direction they had gone with was Wes joining the Maquis, or something similar if the Maquis hasn't really been formed yet.
Great point, if there's any TNG character who could have benefited from getting an arc or even just an episode in DS9 with its more thoughtful and nuanced style it's Wesley.
they were UFP citizens and had to abide by its laws and treaties... they had no right to stay on that planet. There's a whole galaxy to colonize, find another planet. Picard/UFP was correct. Would've been harder hitting if they had renounced their citizenship beforehand.
Honestly not sure what the squad thought was going to happen even if they actually pulled this off. "Wow, what an amazing stunt! Never mind that it's banned, and incredibly dangerous, and by all rights, you should all be expelled! You did such an amazing job that we'll overlook that!"
As I kid watching TNG I really liked Wesley. I saw a lot of myself in him. An awkward kid who was too smart for his own good around the adults, but perhaps didn’t entirely fit in with the kids either. It also made me think think that maybe I too could join Starfleet one day, he gave us hope man. Wesley is the personification of POTENTIAL, he could grow up to be anything. Children are like that. I don’t think he’s written badly at all.
Haha, The Locarno-Paris thing always struck me as a case of a pseudonym for a student related to a famous person. His father being a high ranking Admiral, maybe he wanted to show his Dad that he could make it on his own merits, and instructors may not ever want to dock the grade of an Admiral's son. That was always my head-canon.
Thank you SO much for this video! I was always afraid to say I was a Wesley fan when TNG was still on. Especially when I saw "Wesley must die" buttons everywhere. I couldn't understand the hate. Since I was the same age as him, he was the perfect POV character for me. And then assholes had to fucking ruin it. Wesley is sweet, kind and curious. It's like they have something against non-assholes!
I've always loved Wesley. We share the same first name, our last names are pretty similar, he was about the same age as me when the show premiered, he had my same rough appearance (tall, lanky, awkward kid who liked science stuff), he generally didn't get along well with other kids, and was usually more comfortable around adults. He was pretty much the perfect audience insert for me as a kid when the show aired.
The one question that comes to my mind upon reconsidering "The First Duty": what was the goal Locarno was aiming for? Even in the best-case scenario - they pull off the starburst, it looks awesome, yada yada yada - what did he and the others think was going to happen after they got back to Earth? "Yeah, congrats on that kind of awesome-looking stunt you pulled - shame it's been literally illegal for over a century, bye!" is about the kindest reaction they could have expected. Also, it's been kind of hilarious reading the Star Trek novels over the last few years how they attempted to reconcile that deleted scene from Nemesis with the ending of "Journey's End". It involved Wesley - now a Traveller in his own right - dropping in on his mother literally minutes before the wedding starts and both discovering that, well...apparently clothing is optional wherever it is Travellers hang out, so they have to put Wes in a random Starfleet gala uniform they happen to have lying around. It was *incredibly* contrived, even by the standards of canon welding many of these books have engaged in. There is also a short story in one of the TNG anthologies that shows an alternate reality where Wesley actually became the kind of random dropout that so many child prodigies turn into, and somehow ended up on Dorvan V during the events of "Journey's End" - except that this time, the Enterprise arriving is commanded by Captain Jellico, because without Wesley, Picard died during "Final Mission". That was a fun read, even if it was implied that this was the Traveller's doing all along, showing Wes what it could have been like if he was "just a normal kid/dude".
@@Tonoborus I'm not entirely sure (it's been a while since I read that particular book), but I think that might have been Wesley's reason for turning up in his birthday suit.
All things considered, had they pulled off the move, I don't think anything bad would have happened. Starfleet is an incredibly lax organization with the characters regularly breaking this rule or that regulation with little to no repercussions. If Starfleet were inclined to do anything it likely would have just been a really shitty posting somewhere, if that. In the grand scope of it all performing an illegal maneuver just isn't that big of a deal.
tysm - i've spent yrs thinking "damn, that to paris fella sure does look familiar !!" literally never placed it until this video - (i dont think ive gone back to tng yet since my first voyager watch-thru)
I never understood why they brought back Robert Duncan McNeill for Voyager, but changed his character to Tom Paris. Nick Locarno would have fit in that role perfectly.
"Peak Performance" was my favorite episode with Wesley Crusher. I thought the idea of bringing the USS Hathaway back to fighting shape for wargames would have been a fun task and Wesley was central to it's preparation.
I've been saying since about Mid-season Picard that it's time to bring Wesley back into the fold. The fandom has embraced Wheaton, the writing is *generally* smarter, and there's a lot that could be done between a middle aged Wesley and and Elderly Picard looking to connect to the closest person he ever had to a son (and you know... If Patrick decides to retire or such wouldn't it be convenient to continue the show with Wesley... Who we learn just so happens to be Picard's actual son.)
About a third of the way through, and I agree with pretty much everything except the part about his first time on the bridge. I can't imagine how anyone his age could react any differently, and that genuine enthusiasm is part of why I did tend give the character a bit of pass. I always smile at that scene, personally. It's what sci-fi is all about.
Wesley should have been given a buddy early on like Jake and Nog. Some of the best Wesley episodes he had peers to work with first duty and Robin Lefler.
Honestly, as I got older, the less I hated Wesley. Nowadays, I think the character is fine. He's not my favorite TNG by a long shot, but I think most of the blame for Wesley's bad reaction from the fandom is more related to how he was written into episodes. Sure he could be smart, but he didn't need to solve half the big problems on the ship. I think the writers would have been better off introducing him bit by bit would have been a better idea. He could have been an evolution to the bridge crew to slowly phase him in. Maybe give some of Wesley's time to build up Tasha so Denise Crosby wouldn't want to leave the show. So blame the Writers. And of course Gene was the one forcing the Writers to write the show this way, so let's blame Gene instead. Wesley was a good character who was implemented poorly into the show. And that's sad. But at least there were later season episodes where he was written well.
Wesley's big problem is that he's a kid on a military ship. He either ends up doing stuff way above what he should and makes the way the ship is run look like a nepotistic hellscape where Picard lets Wesley fly the ship or dick around in engineering because he got his dad killed, or he ends up the teenager surrounded by a bunch of kids. He was one more character in an ensemble already filled with people learning how life on a star ship works, and he was always wrapped up in the dumbest stuff rather than being the eyes of the civilians on board and what life looks like for them. He actually got good stories when he grew up and started enrolling in the academy, but by then the damage was done.
Just because the writers wrote him poorly doesn't mean he's magically a good character. A bad character that is bad due to bad writing is still a bad character. Just because we can blame the writers instead of the actor, though it's not like Wheaton was some amazing actor who was being held back by poor writing, doesn't change if a character is good or bad. A bad character that is the result of bad writing is still a bad character.
I was always SO disappointed that Wesley's tory never got a proper chance to wrap up. I was a kid when I was first watching TNG, so I don't think i had the capacity to find Wesley annoying, I wanted to BE him. The idea that he was some kinda latent time/space genius who just needed the right teacher I thought was rather poetic. The fact that he kept on being compared to his father and urged by everyone in his life to follow his path in Starfleet, a place where he felt stifled and unsatisfied was great character work. For my money, you know what would have been a great cap to Wesley's story? Star Trek Generations! Finding him in the Nexus! I know thematically, having Guinan there to guide Picard worked far better, but I believe there could have existed a rewrite where a reunion with Wesley, while floating around in a bizarre space/time anomaly could have been properly set up, and become a satisfying storyline.
I’ve said for years that Wesley needed to be written with less Wally Cleaver and more Eddie Haskell. Judging from Weaton’s other work, it could have worked.
@@spiritusmundi70 I got the reference in that I know those are characters on the iconic 50s sitcom Leave It to Beaver, Wally was the Beave's older brother and I want to say Eddie was the friend Wally was always hanging out with (?), but my limited watching of the show leads me unsure that the different characters had distinct personalities, much less what personality/quirks etc. each character was supposed to have.
Actually, my opinion is that it isn't Wesley per se that is the problem. It was not providing him a foil his own age the way they did with Jake and Nog. How much more interesting if he befriended a young Pakled boy say...and they had a series of adventures together...
Wesley Crusher. The son Gene Roddenberry never had. (Sorry Eugene 😞) I do remember one of the best first season TNG episodes was a Wesley episode. That one where a bunch of kids get abducted by some planet who can't have kids anymore. EDIT When The Bough Breaks, as Steve says.
I feel like Lower Decks' mission statement is to ram as many references to TAS in there so you can't argue that it isn't canon any more. I definitely agree that Wesley got a bad rap both from fans and from the show's creators, the idea of having a young person on the ship isn't inherently bad, I was around the same age as Wesley when TNG was airing and it was kinda exciting to see someone who was like me on the ship. Now, I was like 12 or so when TNG started on TV in Ireland, so I wasn't as discerning towards the quality of the shows, I just liked it when he did stuff. But as I generally delve into TNG as an adult, there are a good few episodes Wes-centric episodes that are really good, even in series 2.
I never had an issue with Wesley's character, I thought he was a reasonably well-written character that was *very* poorly implemented. I liked him best when he was with Geordie and Data, I definitely felt like the character was an engineer but the writing was pushing him into command/grand destiny/etc.
My son has started watching these, he is 18 and has finally started watching Star Trek. He told me this, but misquoted your name for Tasha, he said "Tesla Car." Which might be even funnier. As an aside he just finished DS9 and is now bummed it is over. He was trying to watch things in order, but dropped TNG in the 6th season to binge DS9.
Thank you. I never really understood the hate for Wesley. He was alright: smart, kind, and human enough to have a serious wobble during his academy days. Personally, I didn't like Tasha very much.
I feel most of the hatred of Wesley gets somewhat justified in the eyes of many fans because Wil Wheaton dislikes Wesley as well. Of _course_ Wil Wheaton hates Wesley, people wrote letters to Paramount for years demanding his actual real life murder because of the existence of Wesley Crusher. The single biggest problem with Wesley Crusher is that there was a writer's strike in mid 1987, so 6 abortive pitches for a single 'Wesley saves the day' episode _all_ got made into actual episodes, which didn't have very good writing. Because there was a strike, you see.
I think there's more to his dislike of the character. As an actor, it is hard to play a character that is written that isn't characterized well. Compare how Kate Mulgrew has said she wanted the Voyager writers to write her character more consistently. I don't think it's weird for a teen to direct that frustration at the character. Then again, the letters can't have helped either.
Wil Wheaton is an incredible voice actor and audio book narrator - He was able to make me enjoy the audiobook of ready player one so much that I thought it was both fantastically fun and genre-defining :) When I tried re-reading the book as a book (after being confused by how much criticism it was getting) I still thought that it was pretty ok mid-tier fun for the most part - but it was nowhere as close to being as wonderful as the audiobook experience was.
great narrators can really elevate books. I don't know about will wheaton, but the work of michael kramer and kate reading for the stormlight archive really brings to life the numerous accents of a weird multi-ethnic fantasy world. And Kobna Holbrook smith acts the shit of the final face to face between peter grant and the main antagonist of the first rivers of london book - and again he does a great job of bringing british regional accents to my untrained french ear.
I had an entirely different experience with that book and him reading it. It felt like everything he said was sarcastically intoned, Telling someone he loved them-I couldn’t tell if the was being truthful because all I could hear was Wil’s smarmy voice.
Nope. Wil sucked in “The Martian” compared to the original recording from RC Bray. Wil doesn’t know how to do other voices. He doesn’t know how to do other accents. You don’t know when one character’s dialogue ends and another begins. It all sounds the same. He was just reading the book. That was the absolute bare minimum he had to do, and he sucked at it. RC Bray, on the other hand? He didn’t win his “Audie” award for his recording of “The Martian” for nothing. It was clear when other people were talking in his version. Each character had a distinct personality. And unfortunately for him, that was why he couldn’t redo “The Martian” for Audible. It was either a contract issue or a money issue or both. RC wanted to help Audible, but he couldn’t. Wil was the backup, and he is just no match for RC.
I am a couple years younger than Will. I also loved the movie Stand By Me. So I never understood the Wesley hate. I identified with him. I have borderline personality disorder and am very awkward at times. His fumbling in social situations, or overtly childish reactions to events resonated with me. He was a child coming of age in a stressful environment around almost only adults, despite being on a ship with civilians and families. He was always, and not by his own choice it seemed, around the command structure of the ship. When he could have been hanging out on the civilian section of the ship and hanging out with teens and tweens his own age. Side note, can't wait for the Wayun episode. Am running back through DS9 interspersed with Enterprise and just watched the 1st appearance of his where he was killed by his own men
Disclaimer, I haven't finished the video, but when I was younger I always saw myself in Wesley and so it's always been a little sad that people don't like him because his flaws make a lot of sense and I actually really like a lot of the plotlines he goes through. Especially First Duty. In First Duty, I see Wesley and I think of myself still, and how I'm really starting to understand what it means to follow the show's somewhat abstract lessons in the real world, and how it isn't necessarily easy.
I'm about the same age as Wil Wheaton, and indeed, back in 1987 I was the target audience for his character. The problem is that I kept watching the show as I grew older while poor Wesley stayed the same age. As I moved on to college (and beyond) and still watched the old episodes, seeing 15 year old Wesley is an unpleasant reminder of my younger self.
Nice work not slipping in a joke where someone refers to Locarno as "Tom" or "Paris"...which of course I wrote before the part where you mentioned identity theft.
I think your summary of Wesley’s character is a good summary of what makes Star Trek work as a whole. It’s not at its best when the humans of the future are perfect, evolved beings; Star Trek is at its best when it shows humans *trying* to be their best, faltering badly along the way, but ultimately choosing the right path when it matters most. That’s aspirational television I can get behind.
Wil Wheaton is a really nice guy. I met him a couple of years ago on a Star Trek cruise. He chatted with me and my wife for a while about board games. He's the only Star Trek actor that I know of that's actually a Star Trek fan and knows trivia stuff.
I am proud t say that I was never a Wesley hater. I always accepted that he was a kid with a sharp mind that had lost his father at a young age. He needed to grow up and find his place. Yes, from the outside, I accept that the writers and producers really misused or underused the character, but I think there was a lot there. And I am disappointed that he did not appear in Picard, even if a cameo on video talking to his mother. If there is a son of Picard, who would appear to be Wesley's much younger half-brother, then he should play some role in a potential spin-off of Picard.
15:48 Wow, Columbo, Matlock, and Perry Mason all in one bit. Major kudos there. All that's missing is an Ironside or Rockford reference to round it out.
I always enjoyes Wesley. I was in my late teens when i saw TNG first. He was nerdy, smart, charismatic, and good with the ladies. All i could wish for as a 17 year old
I considered Wesley as an inspiration as a kid, because in the 80s, we were NERDS. He was (and Wil Wheaton still is) a nerd. He was treated as an annoyance, and for anyone in those days, we were also mostly treated as annoyances. Some of us created all of this technology that exists today, including this here UA-cam thingy we use today.
I liked the angle that yes, he was a boy genius and gifted, but he was also messing around with things that were incredibly dangerous and probably didn't get official authorization to do. I myself was considered a bright kid back then and definitely tried doing things that got me into trouble a few times, so I was able to relate on that level. Like Wesley, I also dropped out of college to go on a few mystical quests (mine involved mushrooms instead of middle aged men) and ended up going back to college after my angsty phase cooled down and I felt I had fully squandered much of the potential I failed to live up to. Wesley is the realest character to me, because he is me
Thanks for this. I didn't hate Wesley. Actually liked him most of the time. And I'm a huge fan of Will Wheaton. Loved his book, (Listened to his narrated version, actually, which made it even better,) and his Tabletop vlog was awesome.
If you juxtapose Picard's speech about the First Duty with Sisko's closing monologue from "In the Pale Moonlight," it tells you everything you need to know about the difference in tone between TNG and DS9.
Really great video, It's always good to see previous Star Trek assumptions being re-looked at, and always great to see people who had these "unpopular" opinions being able to speak their minds without being shamed anymore, and not just with Wesley but with any aspect of the franchise, after all, diversity in ideas and embracing new thought is a core part of Star Trek. That being said, while I do feel that their are people that have indeed calmed down, matured with age, and embraced new ideas and challenged old ones while respecting their fellow fans, with the current online climate of the fandom, I feel that people haven't learned to stop hating something and merely changed what they hate to the newest series or character, and that people who were once bullied and shamed into silence are finally allowed to speak up, or people that were browbeaten into joining in the hate were finally free to make their own opinion, or people who were told "this wasn't worth their time" and given a biased interpretation could actually see for themselves. I guarantee people, that in ten or more years time, and it's no longer popular or profitable to hate anything from Discovery or Picard and have moved onto the newest series to hate, their will be people like those that are fans of Voyager and Enterprise or a character like Wesley that will finally be able to say they're fans without being shamed, or people like me who were told to not watch shows like Deep Space Nine or The Original Series to finally give them a chance, all while being able to have civil and nuance discussions about what we like or dislike about them.
I didn't mind the whole Wesley questioning if he Wanted to be in Starfleet or if he just felt like he had to join because of his father and all the effort others had put in his training to be a good story point.
The First Duty is not only the best Wesley Crusher episode, hands down, it introduces Sito Jaxha, whose follow-up appearance in Lower Decks is memorably sympathetic.
I never had problem with Wesley, I liked the character just fine. Many of the early episodes that focused on Wesley solving the problem of the week were frustrating though. Not because of Wesley himself, but the way the other characters acted towards him. He'd be like "Lore's a bad guy and is impersonating Data!" and the other characters would be like "SHUT UP WESLEY!". It's frustrating because as the audience we know Wesley is right and the other characters come off as stupid and arrogant when they dismiss him. This happens in several episodes. I've always wondered if some people directed that frustration towards Wesley's character, whereas I directed it towards the rest of the cast that he interacted with. Either way it's almost never a good thing for a writer to have the audience know more than the characters, and Wesley exacerbated that by being our proxy in several of those situations.
I remember thinking then, every new series dreams of a breakout character or star - a Fonzi, Urkel, Seven-Of-Nine, JR Ewing, Spock. In the 60’s ‘Lost In Space’ went from ‘Space Family Robinson’ to ‘The Dr. Smith, Will Robinson, & The Robot Show’. He was obviously targeted to be a proxy character for the young male nerd audience - but through whatever alchemy decides which lightning bolt gets caught in the bottle, the early breakout, I would argue, was Data.
I started watching TNG when I was about 8 and Wesley, though not my favorite character, he was someone I looked up to because I wanted to be in Starfleet and he was closer to my age. Rewatching TNG, I see him with nostalgia rather than annoyance.
Wil does seem tobe a good dude, but there is one instance of somebody giving him crap that was total gold: He put out a tweet telling people that "anyone who says, 'Shut up Wesley' is getting blocked." Patrick Stewart replied, "Shut up Wil."
I was in my middle school years when Wesley Crusher was on tv, that kid was me on TV. I seriously do not get why it's okay in fandom to just say "Wesly this, & that" I loved the character. To constantly pick on Wesley Crusher is just low hanging fruit when the science of the show is soooo damn good. My favorite Trek series are when they explore imo
I was waiting for the, "I've got this sweater you lent my son. Losing him is bad enough, hearing he was a coward was worse, but the worst thing is your fashion sense. I can't stand to remember him wearing this," comment from you, Steve.
Anything thing that Wesley failed at so DS9 could do it well: the whole time-warping alien messiah thing! They never did figure out how to make that work for Wes, but they got it right for Ben Sisko.
I liked Wesley. A huge reoccurring theme is that Wesley tells them something important, they ignore him, and he was correct the whole time. It keeps happening lol
This was very much worth a re-watch. I remember going to a ST convention in Minnesota back in 1988 or so with my brother. Someone was there from Paramount and showing slides--it was 1988 after all--and it was mostly TNG slides. Next Gen was still very much new and that first season--the first two actually--was pretty raw and developmental. I sensed that they were trying to build some consensus for the 'new' Trek. Anyway, any slide with Wesley on it drew lots of boos and loud ones. The studio rep was very taken aback by this and asked the audience why. I think that Wil Wheaton often did unfairly get the blame for not-great writing and character development. Unfortunately, this happens in fandom. Jar-Jar, kid Anakin, etc. Not the fault of the person doing their best to pull off something harder because it may lack some depth. I liked how you highlighted that it was not his fault. You struck a good note for fairness as you always do! ;-)
Yeah, most of the bad things about Wesley came straight from the writers' strike. I still definitely make some "Shut up, Wesley" and such meme jokes, but they're from a place of liking Star Trek. Sort of how you may have inside insults with your friends but a stranger starts making fun of your friend and now it's not okay.
Wesley walked so that Jake and Nog could run.
Odo: *Odo scoff* Not on the promenade!
Nog was awesome. Jake was the biggest wuss ever to appear on TV.
I love how the Odo scoff is separate from a normal scoff
Perfect comment, I can't even begin to explain how much I needed that right now
Lol
There was also Naomi and Icheb
Okay, the murder and theft of Tom Paris' identity by Nick Locarno needs to be presented as a True Crime podcast.
Seconded.
Thirded.
Starfleet's crime of the century.
Nick really is a little shit, huh?
Tom Paris and Nick Locarno were the same person. Raised with his mothers surname, the scandal got Nick expelled but a year or two later his estranged father the admiral pulls some strings and gets him readmitted under a new identity but linking him to his fuckup of a son (who he previously disavowed.) And Admiral Paris owes the data forgers in S31 some big favours.
@@John.R.F.they aren't as of lower Decks 4.10 we habe proof that Locarno was not Tom Paris.
The thing about Wesley I always related to is that he was always a person out of place. He didn't fit in with other kids or people is age, but he also didn't really fit in with the adults either. He was always just on the outside of the club, regardless of what he did or which group he was with. I related to that as a kid watching the show, and relate to it still as a grown adult. I often feel like Wesley. Accepted by those around him, but never really welcomed or a part of the group.
He was my wife's favorite character growing up- she was one of those kids always in AP classes, not necessarily driven but her intelligence was recognized and so she was always pushed into educational opportunities above her grade level. She did (and does) absolutely have a gift for writing. As a kid pushed to be a higher achiever because of somewhat advanced abilities and neurodivergence, there is a lot in Wesley Crusher's character that resonates. Sure, you're smart beyond your years, but with that comes awkwardness among your peers and the sense that you'd rather hang out with the adults but also may be annoying them just because you're a kid.
Wil Wheaton is a fantastic human. Thank you for being in his corner and reminding others of that fact. Even if Wesley wasn't always well-written or his character well-handled, that's not Wil's fault. He's a very audible voice for those communities who aren't always heard, and yes, he's a damn good actor
"the first duty" is one of the most powerful episodes of startrek that i ever watched as a teenager. it has more than once influenced me to not go along with dumb ideas, and to own up to it when i fucked up. the first duty is to the truth, and i will never forget that.
I always liked Wesley, but then I was a preteen nerdy girl and he was a cute nerdy boy. My story standards were not high. Looking back I wish they had given him a different ending. The "gifted child" narrative was so pervasive at the time and for many of us it turned out rather toxic. I would love to see him turn up in Picard having gone through burnout and rebuilt, that would be a true 80s kid story. BTW young Steve is adorable.
That’s a wonderful idea!
As a pre-teen boy when all that aired I identified with Wesley the most. My favorite character moments at the time were Data, Geordi, and Wesley interactions. At that age I don’t think you even know what multi-dimensional characters are, everything else was teen sitcom roles or unchanging cartoon relationships.
Saaaaame. I was too young to hear any of the Wes hate. I’m pretty sure he was my second celebrity crush, after Joey McIntyre. I was a smart girl, he was a smart boy. He often proved the adults wrong, but had some awesome mentors. What was there to hate?
The fact that Locarno couldn't be used in Voyager due to rights issues, or more specifically, Paramount being too cheap to pay the original writers always sucked.
Picard: "No one on this ship holds a candle to me!"
Ronin: "What's this about Beverly Crusher and candles?"
Beat me to the comment! 18:38
Just came here for the same reference, you win.
One should always be suspicious of any "elite" grouping of students at starfleet academy. At least Wes didn't participate in an attempted coup to install a military junta to rule the federation.
Yeah, but in the end those guys were assigned to an uber-secrect mission during the war and then, after everyone else died, ran that mission. Nothing bad happened there, right? R-right?
I imagine the antics of such groups have earned them the nickname "Khan Squads"
Ooh! Which book is that?
@@auldthymer What do you mean, what book? DS9 season 4, episodes 11 and 12.
@@auldthymer Then the episode I was referring to in my comment was season 6, episode 22, "Valiant."
I never thought there was anything wrong with Wesley, but we were both teenagers when the show started. So maybe I just understood him.
I feel the same way, but then again I didn't have internet comments to guide my opinion back in the day, I didn't know many trekies at school, and really only had my introverted father to bounce episode feedback off of, and he was usually asleep by the end of the show :-)
@@raterus I agree one hundred percent. Except my sisters and I were three black girls who discussed the show amongst ourselves.
@@Oonagh72 lucky you. My siblings dont understand star trek. And we're asian have the stereotype of science nerd
@@nfspbarrister5681i was a teenager when I first watched Tng too so same for me. Though I dod watch it decades later.
Yep. Same here and I was in my late 20's. I came here hoping for some justice for Wesley, but it is too grudgingly given.
I was always a fan of Wesley.
I didn't really realize how much some people dislike the character until I went to my first couple of convention. One of the ladies who work for creation con is warming up the audience before the panel came out. And when a picture of Wesley Crusher came on screen some people started the boo. The lady said and I feel to her credit that wheel is an incredibly nice person and even if you don't like his character she finds it incredibly rude that some people would actually boo him when he came on stage. As Steve said that's when people take shit way too far. If you want more Wesley Crusher I would love for Wil Wheaton to revive that character on Star Trek Picard or even on Lower decks. I know among some people I might be in the minority but again I always liked the character Wesley yes some of his lines were shity and sometime he was a little kid that they didn't know what to do with. But none of that should following Wil Wheaton.
I think Will has formally stated that he wasn’t going to go back into acting as it never really made him happy and was a life path pushed onto him by his mother. He could change his mind on that but that’s what he last said on it
I love your whole joke about Nick killing Tom Paris and stealing his identity, but I have alway thought that a simpler explanation was that Tom Paris didn’t want any special treatment because of who his father was, so he enlisted at Star Fleet Academy under a fake name. He wanted to graduate from the Academy by his own merits, not coast on the coattails of his father. This had the added bonus of not causing embarrassment for his father when he got expelled as no one knew he was the Admiral’s son.
That’s my headcanon as well.
Though I reckoned that atom was always a screwup and this way his way to try to get away from that
Owen Paris cheated on his wife and Paris and Locarno are half brothers.
Well Lower Decks just proved that Tom and Nick are two different people.
Except that Tom Paris wasn't keen on Starfleet, and did his best to get kicked out, but his father didn't let that happen, thinking that one day, he'd get the right captain who would bring him in line.
Perhaps there was a transporter malfunction in young Tom Paris' life, and his other self, just like Tom (?) Riker, had to adopt a new name. He just happened to go to the academy a few years before Tom Paris. Is that canon enough?
@@akmi1931Who's Atom?
Oh man, that last part about how it's awful to harass actors just because their characters aren't written well/aren't liked reminds me of what happened to King Joffrey's actor Jack Gleeson, played the role so damn well that he was constantly barraged with hate from fans, just because he played an asshole character super well.
Or what about the kid who played young Anakin in The Phantom Menace, poor guy had his whole life spiral because of a single meh movie.
Also the actor of Jar Jar Binks went through years of crippling depression and thoughts of suicide because of the unrelenting barrage of hate from Star Wars fans.
Toxic people make toxic fans.
@@MrGreensweightHist do you know about his life?
@@gcisbani have you watched how he treats some of his fans and trekies? there is a reason he is not well liked in trek. He is not a relatable person and he's not afraid to show you that. westly is fine. but the actor behind the Char is not
There's also the case of all the hate that Anna Gunn went through because she played Skyler White on Breaking Bad. There was a lot of really awful misogyny mixed into that one, too.
@@thing_under_the_stairssaid it once saying it again skyler did some wrong things but she was not in the wrong when it comes to the things she did that make people hate her. The people thst hate her hate her because they are toxic assholes who look up to Walter white. Same kind of jackasses thst idolize Rick Sanchez and hate Jerry.
I really appreciate this. I grow so weary of UA-cam content where "creators" just jump on the bandwagon of popular opinion, without any truly independent critical thinking. Thank you.
I would argue that the "Shut up Wesley!" moment is the one piece of writing that sunk the character for most people. It wasn't that Wesley was wrong (he wasn't), it's just that they made him super annoying and whinny about being right. To make it worse, they also made the rest of the ship's crew act so moronically that nobody else could see what was going on. I remember watching it when it came out and t felt like they were forcing this narrative that Wesley was somehow smarter and better than the highly trained crew. I was in my early teens at the time, so I was the target audience that Wesley was aimed at, and a whiny episode like that did the exactly opposite of what was intended.
Honestly, what teenagers like the nerdy, know-it-all character in a show? We like the good guys, but the ones that are a bit rebellious because we (as kids) always feel like parents are telling us what to do.
"You're not wrong, Wesley, you're just an asshole!" - Lt.Cmdr. Jeffrey Lebowski
TBH That was one of the relatively rare moments where I was on Wesley's side. Picard had literally just lectured the entire bridge crew about how it was not only acceptable, but somehow prudent to be suspicious of Data and then when Wesley voices the exact same concerns that Yar just had prompting said speech, Picard tells him to shut up and orders him off the bridge.
@@MrGreensweightHist That is what I hated the most.
He seemed to be better than everyone at EVERYTHING even though the other people had devoted their lives to getting to that moment.
Then it turned out he was actually a wonder alien?
I would argue that the "Shut up Wesley!" moment showed that it was OK to be dismissive of Wesley, because Captain Picard was the one to tell him to shut up. Captain Picard had already been established as a man of polite principle, a man of 'moral authority' by this point, and yet he thought it was OK to tell someone to shut up in front of his crew. Such a blatant sign of disrespect coming from the Captain signaled that it was OK to be disrespectful and dismissive of Wesley Crusher.
Maybe nerdy know it all teens? You know, the type that gravitate towards media like Star Trek? Lol
September 1987 I was 8 and that year I tested into the gifted program for 4th grade. I saw a lot of myself in Wesley. It wasn't until I got a little older that I started to realize the issues with Wesley.
At the time it was great seeing a kid, not all that much older than I was (certainly closer than the next oldest crew member), get a chance to be a member of the crew.
I identified with Wesley. He's the quint essential nerd: hyper-intelligent on tech, utterly clueless on everything else.
I remember when they got rid of Wesley thinking "Aw man, I was just starting to like him." Ever since, I've been waiting for him to come back as some supremely powerful being and stop Q or dismantle a borg cube with his space magic brain. That'd be dope.
You know what should have been a great episode for Wesley? "Pen Pals".
You know, the one where Data, in a mind boggling lapse of judgement that he never would have made in a million years, breaks the prime directive and starts talking to that little girl on a doomed planet? That should have been a Wesley episode.
Wesley was already engaged in the B plot, but think about it: It makes waaaay more sense for Wesley to be the one who had started talking with Sarjenka. It also works perfectly with his b plot in the episode, giving him a much greater motivation.
"Pen Pals" offered an opportunity to grow Wesley's character in a significant and organic way. Instead, it became one of the metric ton of "Data explores his humanity" episodes. Don't get me wrong, I love those episodes, but I think "Pen Pals" was a real missed opportunity for Wesley's character.
That's a really good point. Wesley talking to a little alien girl and then emotionally manipulating the captain to agree with saving her planet makes perfect sense for a kid on a star ship, especially Wesley, who Picard feels guilty for his father's death. What doesn't make sense is Data, the cold artificial man, playing her voice after the captain has made his decision. Like no one sat back and said "Data understands emotions better than we think" or "Data's a bit of a sociopath who'll manipulate the captain with the sad sound of a little girl's voice to get him to reverse his decision."
I understood Wesley, as a kid who also wanted to hangout with the adults, without understanding how annoying that is to the adults. ❤️
Given that in Wesley's final episode, he goes against Picard on the 'lets forcefully relocate a group of people who have chosen to peacefully settle on a planet' situation, I wonder if it would have been more satisfying if the direction they had gone with was Wes joining the Maquis, or something similar if the Maquis hasn't really been formed yet.
Great point, if there's any TNG character who could have benefited from getting an arc or even just an episode in DS9 with its more thoughtful and nuanced style it's Wesley.
Tom Riker did so why not Wesley?
maquis wesley with traveller powers would be interesting af
My recollection is that this relocation attempt is the inciting incident for the whole Maquis business, so...
they were UFP citizens and had to abide by its laws and treaties... they had no right to stay on that planet. There's a whole galaxy to colonize, find another planet. Picard/UFP was correct.
Would've been harder hitting if they had renounced their citizenship beforehand.
Honestly not sure what the squad thought was going to happen even if they actually pulled this off.
"Wow, what an amazing stunt! Never mind that it's banned, and incredibly dangerous, and by all rights, you should all be expelled! You did such an amazing job that we'll overlook that!"
As I kid watching TNG I really liked Wesley. I saw a lot of myself in him. An awkward kid who was too smart for his own good around the adults, but perhaps didn’t entirely fit in with the kids either. It also made me think think that maybe I too could join Starfleet one day, he gave us hope man. Wesley is the personification of POTENTIAL, he could grow up to be anything. Children are like that. I don’t think he’s written badly at all.
Haha, The Locarno-Paris thing always struck me as a case of a pseudonym for a student related to a famous person. His father being a high ranking Admiral, maybe he wanted to show his Dad that he could make it on his own merits, and instructors may not ever want to dock the grade of an Admiral's son. That was always my head-canon.
Thank you SO much for this video! I was always afraid to say I was a Wesley fan when TNG was still on. Especially when I saw "Wesley must die" buttons everywhere. I couldn't understand the hate. Since I was the same age as him, he was the perfect POV character for me. And then assholes had to fucking ruin it. Wesley is sweet, kind and curious. It's like they have something against non-assholes!
I've always loved Wesley. We share the same first name, our last names are pretty similar, he was about the same age as me when the show premiered, he had my same rough appearance (tall, lanky, awkward kid who liked science stuff), he generally didn't get along well with other kids, and was usually more comfortable around adults. He was pretty much the perfect audience insert for me as a kid when the show aired.
I love that you worked 'no one holds a candle' into the bit about Dr. Crusher and her reactions to grief. That was inspired.
The one question that comes to my mind upon reconsidering "The First Duty": what was the goal Locarno was aiming for? Even in the best-case scenario - they pull off the starburst, it looks awesome, yada yada yada - what did he and the others think was going to happen after they got back to Earth? "Yeah, congrats on that kind of awesome-looking stunt you pulled - shame it's been literally illegal for over a century, bye!" is about the kindest reaction they could have expected.
Also, it's been kind of hilarious reading the Star Trek novels over the last few years how they attempted to reconcile that deleted scene from Nemesis with the ending of "Journey's End". It involved Wesley - now a Traveller in his own right - dropping in on his mother literally minutes before the wedding starts and both discovering that, well...apparently clothing is optional wherever it is Travellers hang out, so they have to put Wes in a random Starfleet gala uniform they happen to have lying around. It was *incredibly* contrived, even by the standards of canon welding many of these books have engaged in. There is also a short story in one of the TNG anthologies that shows an alternate reality where Wesley actually became the kind of random dropout that so many child prodigies turn into, and somehow ended up on Dorvan V during the events of "Journey's End" - except that this time, the Enterprise arriving is commanded by Captain Jellico, because without Wesley, Picard died during "Final Mission". That was a fun read, even if it was implied that this was the Traveller's doing all along, showing Wes what it could have been like if he was "just a normal kid/dude".
So a stranger from outer space whisked a young man into his realm where clothing is kinda optional? Does the Traveler at least offer candy?
Betazoid weddings are traditionally performed without anyone clothed.
Hotshot test pilot position?
@@Tonoborus I'm not entirely sure (it's been a while since I read that particular book), but I think that might have been Wesley's reason for turning up in his birthday suit.
All things considered, had they pulled off the move, I don't think anything bad would have happened. Starfleet is an incredibly lax organization with the characters regularly breaking this rule or that regulation with little to no repercussions. If Starfleet were inclined to do anything it likely would have just been a really shitty posting somewhere, if that.
In the grand scope of it all performing an illegal maneuver just isn't that big of a deal.
tysm - i've spent yrs thinking "damn, that to paris fella sure does look familiar !!"
literally never placed it until this video - (i dont think ive gone back to tng yet since my first voyager watch-thru)
I never understood why they brought back Robert Duncan McNeill for Voyager, but changed his character to Tom Paris.
Nick Locarno would have fit in that role perfectly.
It's because Paramount was too cheap to pay the writer of 'The 1st Duty' royalties for using the Tom Parris name and character.
The issue with Wesley was he was initially written by a boomers idea of a young person
Not even a boomer -- Roddenberry fought in WWII.
@@LeChaunce it's still 'how do you do fellow kids'.
"Peak Performance" was my favorite episode with Wesley Crusher. I thought the idea of bringing the USS Hathaway back to fighting shape for wargames would have been a fun task and Wesley was central to it's preparation.
I've been saying since about Mid-season Picard that it's time to bring Wesley back into the fold. The fandom has embraced Wheaton, the writing is *generally* smarter, and there's a lot that could be done between a middle aged Wesley and and Elderly Picard looking to connect to the closest person he ever had to a son (and you know... If Patrick decides to retire or such wouldn't it be convenient to continue the show with Wesley... Who we learn just so happens to be Picard's actual son.)
I don't think anyone is going to accept Wesly as secretly being Picard's son.
Somehow I Knew This Watching TNG Without Seeing The Newer Show Picard -JACK
Riker was more of a father to Wesley than Picard ever was.
About a third of the way through, and I agree with pretty much everything except the part about his first time on the bridge. I can't imagine how anyone his age could react any differently, and that genuine enthusiasm is part of why I did tend give the character a bit of pass.
I always smile at that scene, personally. It's what sci-fi is all about.
Wesley should have been given a buddy early on like Jake and Nog. Some of the best Wesley episodes he had peers to work with first duty and Robin Lefler.
Wesley Crusher spent years as a season one character until he was allowed to graduate to season two just in time for the end of the series.
I seem to recall that Anna Gunn got a lot of crap for Skyler in Breaking Bad. Definitely glad to see you sticking up for Wil Wheaton.
Honestly, as I got older, the less I hated Wesley. Nowadays, I think the character is fine. He's not my favorite TNG by a long shot, but I think most of the blame for Wesley's bad reaction from the fandom is more related to how he was written into episodes. Sure he could be smart, but he didn't need to solve half the big problems on the ship. I think the writers would have been better off introducing him bit by bit would have been a better idea. He could have been an evolution to the bridge crew to slowly phase him in. Maybe give some of Wesley's time to build up Tasha so Denise Crosby wouldn't want to leave the show.
So blame the Writers. And of course Gene was the one forcing the Writers to write the show this way, so let's blame Gene instead. Wesley was a good character who was implemented poorly into the show. And that's sad. But at least there were later season episodes where he was written well.
Wesley's big problem is that he's a kid on a military ship. He either ends up doing stuff way above what he should and makes the way the ship is run look like a nepotistic hellscape where Picard lets Wesley fly the ship or dick around in engineering because he got his dad killed, or he ends up the teenager surrounded by a bunch of kids. He was one more character in an ensemble already filled with people learning how life on a star ship works, and he was always wrapped up in the dumbest stuff rather than being the eyes of the civilians on board and what life looks like for them. He actually got good stories when he grew up and started enrolling in the academy, but by then the damage was done.
Just because the writers wrote him poorly doesn't mean he's magically a good character. A bad character that is bad due to bad writing is still a bad character. Just because we can blame the writers instead of the actor, though it's not like Wheaton was some amazing actor who was being held back by poor writing, doesn't change if a character is good or bad.
A bad character that is the result of bad writing is still a bad character.
I was always SO disappointed that Wesley's tory never got a proper chance to wrap up. I was a kid when I was first watching TNG, so I don't think i had the capacity to find Wesley annoying, I wanted to BE him. The idea that he was some kinda latent time/space genius who just needed the right teacher I thought was rather poetic. The fact that he kept on being compared to his father and urged by everyone in his life to follow his path in Starfleet, a place where he felt stifled and unsatisfied was great character work.
For my money, you know what would have been a great cap to Wesley's story?
Star Trek Generations! Finding him in the Nexus!
I know thematically, having Guinan there to guide Picard worked far better, but I believe there could have existed a rewrite where a reunion with Wesley, while floating around in a bizarre space/time anomaly could have been properly set up, and become a satisfying storyline.
His story was wrapped up. He left to go do time and space stuff with the Traveler, thus concluding an arc that got started in season 1.
I’ve said for years that Wesley needed to be written with less Wally Cleaver and more Eddie Haskell. Judging from Weaton’s other work, it could have worked.
99% of people won't get that reference.
@@spiritusmundi70 Yay,I'm in the 1%!
@@spiritusmundi70 I think that the percentage of people that won’t get the reference is more like 80%. However this is only my opinion!
@@spiritusmundi70 I got the reference in that I know those are characters on the iconic 50s sitcom Leave It to Beaver, Wally was the Beave's older brother and I want to say Eddie was the friend Wally was always hanging out with (?), but my limited watching of the show leads me unsure that the different characters had distinct personalities, much less what personality/quirks etc. each character was supposed to have.
Actually, my opinion is that it isn't Wesley per se that is the problem. It was not providing him a foil his own age the way they did with Jake and Nog. How much more interesting if he befriended a young Pakled boy say...and they had a series of adventures together...
Wesley Crusher. The son Gene Roddenberry never had.
(Sorry Eugene 😞)
I do remember one of the best first season TNG episodes was a Wesley episode. That one where a bunch of kids get abducted by some planet who can't have kids anymore.
EDIT When The Bough Breaks, as Steve says.
I feel like Lower Decks' mission statement is to ram as many references to TAS in there so you can't argue that it isn't canon any more.
I definitely agree that Wesley got a bad rap both from fans and from the show's creators, the idea of having a young person on the ship isn't inherently bad, I was around the same age as Wesley when TNG was airing and it was kinda exciting to see someone who was like me on the ship. Now, I was like 12 or so when TNG started on TV in Ireland, so I wasn't as discerning towards the quality of the shows, I just liked it when he did stuff. But as I generally delve into TNG as an adult, there are a good few episodes Wes-centric episodes that are really good, even in series 2.
I just realised how happy I am to realise the noble art of knitting has survived into the 24th century
18:38 “holds a candle” - very clever; I like that one.
I always liked the idea that Nick Locarno was actually Tom Paris, under a pseudonym in the academy in order to get out from under his dad's shadow
“I bet if I crapped my pants they wouldn’t want us any more.” Classic, Steve! 🤣😂🤣
I never had an issue with Wesley's character, I thought he was a reasonably well-written character that was *very* poorly implemented. I liked him best when he was with Geordie and Data, I definitely felt like the character was an engineer but the writing was pushing him into command/grand destiny/etc.
BRAVO, Steve!!!! I paused the vid around 14 minutes in to Thank You for the Joy!!! Just Great!!! Okay, back to the Wesley Chronicles 😊
My son has started watching these, he is 18 and has finally started watching Star Trek. He told me this, but misquoted your name for Tasha, he said "Tesla Car." Which might be even funnier.
As an aside he just finished DS9 and is now bummed it is over. He was trying to watch things in order, but dropped TNG in the 6th season to binge DS9.
Thank you. I never really understood the hate for Wesley. He was alright: smart, kind, and human enough to have a serious wobble during his academy days. Personally, I didn't like Tasha very much.
Tasha didn't like Tasha very much either, hence the hasty exit!
I feel most of the hatred of Wesley gets somewhat justified in the eyes of many fans because Wil Wheaton dislikes Wesley as well. Of _course_ Wil Wheaton hates Wesley, people wrote letters to Paramount for years demanding his actual real life murder because of the existence of Wesley Crusher.
The single biggest problem with Wesley Crusher is that there was a writer's strike in mid 1987, so 6 abortive pitches for a single 'Wesley saves the day' episode _all_ got made into actual episodes, which didn't have very good writing. Because there was a strike, you see.
I think there's more to his dislike of the character. As an actor, it is hard to play a character that is written that isn't characterized well. Compare how Kate Mulgrew has said she wanted the Voyager writers to write her character more consistently. I don't think it's weird for a teen to direct that frustration at the character. Then again, the letters can't have helped either.
I swear the best part of trek actually is your recapping of scenes from shows and movies. It’s hilarious and accurate great job Steve!
Wil Wheaton is an incredible voice actor and audio book narrator - He was able to make me enjoy the audiobook of ready player one so much that I thought it was both fantastically fun and genre-defining :) When I tried re-reading the book as a book (after being confused by how much criticism it was getting) I still thought that it was pretty ok mid-tier fun for the most part - but it was nowhere as close to being as wonderful as the audiobook experience was.
great narrators can really elevate books. I don't know about will wheaton, but the work of michael kramer and kate reading for the stormlight archive really brings to life the numerous accents of a weird multi-ethnic fantasy world. And Kobna Holbrook smith acts the shit of the final face to face between peter grant and the main antagonist of the first rivers of london book - and again he does a great job of bringing british regional accents to my untrained french ear.
I had an entirely different experience with that book and him reading it. It felt like everything he said was sarcastically intoned, Telling someone he loved them-I couldn’t tell if the was being truthful because all I could hear was Wil’s smarmy voice.
And
Nope. Wil sucked in “The Martian” compared to the original recording from RC Bray. Wil doesn’t know how to do other voices. He doesn’t know how to do other accents. You don’t know when one character’s dialogue ends and another begins. It all sounds the same. He was just reading the book. That was the absolute bare minimum he had to do, and he sucked at it.
RC Bray, on the other hand? He didn’t win his “Audie” award for his recording of “The Martian” for nothing. It was clear when other people were talking in his version. Each character had a distinct personality. And unfortunately for him, that was why he couldn’t redo “The Martian” for Audible. It was either a contract issue or a money issue or both. RC wanted to help Audible, but he couldn’t. Wil was the backup, and he is just no match for RC.
Holy crap do I love your summations of the episode dialog. That shit is funny as hell. Keep up the funny work.
I am a couple years younger than Will. I also loved the movie Stand By Me. So I never understood the Wesley hate. I identified with him. I have borderline personality disorder and am very awkward at times. His fumbling in social situations, or overtly childish reactions to events resonated with me. He was a child coming of age in a stressful environment around almost only adults, despite being on a ship with civilians and families. He was always, and not by his own choice it seemed, around the command structure of the ship. When he could have been hanging out on the civilian section of the ship and hanging out with teens and tweens his own age.
Side note, can't wait for the Wayun episode. Am running back through DS9 interspersed with Enterprise and just watched the 1st appearance of his where he was killed by his own men
Disclaimer, I haven't finished the video, but when I was younger I always saw myself in Wesley and so it's always been a little sad that people don't like him because his flaws make a lot of sense and I actually really like a lot of the plotlines he goes through. Especially First Duty. In First Duty, I see Wesley and I think of myself still, and how I'm really starting to understand what it means to follow the show's somewhat abstract lessons in the real world, and how it isn't necessarily easy.
I was not expecting the moment at 20:46 !!!! OMG, I was in tears. The expression on your face sold it! LOL!!! :D
I'm about the same age as Wil Wheaton, and indeed, back in 1987 I was the target audience for his character. The problem is that I kept watching the show as I grew older while poor Wesley stayed the same age. As I moved on to college (and beyond) and still watched the old episodes, seeing 15 year old Wesley is an unpleasant reminder of my younger self.
Nice work not slipping in a joke where someone refers to Locarno as "Tom" or "Paris"...which of course I wrote before the part where you mentioned identity theft.
I think your summary of Wesley’s character is a good summary of what makes Star Trek work as a whole. It’s not at its best when the humans of the future are perfect, evolved beings; Star Trek is at its best when it shows humans *trying* to be their best, faltering badly along the way, but ultimately choosing the right path when it matters most. That’s aspirational television I can get behind.
"Magic molasses monster"---love it!
So strange to think Will Wheaton is older today than Patrick Stewart was when Season 1 of TNG filmed.
Wil Wheaton is a really nice guy. I met him a couple of years ago on a Star Trek cruise. He chatted with me and my wife for a while about board games. He's the only Star Trek actor that I know of that's actually a Star Trek fan and knows trivia stuff.
That Nick/Tom identity switch joke, was pretty hilarious. LMAO
"He just need to listen to his conscience"....the little voice in his head named "Picard".
I am proud t say that I was never a Wesley hater. I always accepted that he was a kid with a sharp mind that had lost his father at a young age. He needed to grow up and find his place. Yes, from the outside, I accept that the writers and producers really misused or underused the character, but I think there was a lot there. And I am disappointed that he did not appear in Picard, even if a cameo on video talking to his mother. If there is a son of Picard, who would appear to be Wesley's much younger half-brother, then he should play some role in a potential spin-off of Picard.
15:48 Wow, Columbo, Matlock, and Perry Mason all in one bit. Major kudos there. All that's missing is an Ironside or Rockford reference to round it out.
I always enjoyes Wesley. I was in my late teens when i saw TNG first. He was nerdy, smart, charismatic, and good with the ladies. All i could wish for as a 17 year old
"People always said... they look alike..." That is now the canon explanation of why Tom Paris and Nick Locarno were so similar.
"...because grief makes her horny and who else is she gonna turn to in that situation?" I'm dying!
I considered Wesley as an inspiration as a kid, because in the 80s, we were NERDS. He was (and Wil Wheaton still is) a nerd. He was treated as an annoyance, and for anyone in those days, we were also mostly treated as annoyances. Some of us created all of this technology that exists today, including this here UA-cam thingy we use today.
I've been re-watching TNG. My wife couldn't help but point out that "if they just listened to Westley they wouldn't have so many problems."
I LOVE the slightly ad-libbed recounting of conversations 😂
“What’s that Beverly? You want Wesley to watch? Make it so!”
Such an awesome parody with Patrick Stewart on Robot Chicken❕
I liked the angle that yes, he was a boy genius and gifted, but he was also messing around with things that were incredibly dangerous and probably didn't get official authorization to do. I myself was considered a bright kid back then and definitely tried doing things that got me into trouble a few times, so I was able to relate on that level. Like Wesley, I also dropped out of college to go on a few mystical quests (mine involved mushrooms instead of middle aged men) and ended up going back to college after my angsty phase cooled down and I felt I had fully squandered much of the potential I failed to live up to. Wesley is the realest character to me, because he is me
Thanks for this. I didn't hate Wesley. Actually liked him most of the time. And I'm a huge fan of Will Wheaton. Loved his book, (Listened to his narrated version, actually, which made it even better,) and his Tabletop vlog was awesome.
Thank you for going there with Locarno! Best part of the episode.
If you juxtapose Picard's speech about the First Duty with Sisko's closing monologue from "In the Pale Moonlight," it tells you everything you need to know about the difference in tone between TNG and DS9.
Really great video, It's always good to see previous Star Trek assumptions being re-looked at, and always great to see people who had these "unpopular" opinions being able to speak their minds without being shamed anymore, and not just with Wesley but with any aspect of the franchise, after all, diversity in ideas and embracing new thought is a core part of Star Trek.
That being said, while I do feel that their are people that have indeed calmed down, matured with age, and embraced new ideas and challenged old ones while respecting their fellow fans, with the current online climate of the fandom, I feel that people haven't learned to stop hating something and merely changed what they hate to the newest series or character, and that people who were once bullied and shamed into silence are finally allowed to speak up, or people that were browbeaten into joining in the hate were finally free to make their own opinion, or people who were told "this wasn't worth their time" and given a biased interpretation could actually see for themselves.
I guarantee people, that in ten or more years time, and it's no longer popular or profitable to hate anything from Discovery or Picard and have moved onto the newest series to hate, their will be people like those that are fans of Voyager and Enterprise or a character like Wesley that will finally be able to say they're fans without being shamed, or people like me who were told to not watch shows like Deep Space Nine or The Original Series to finally give them a chance, all while being able to have civil and nuance discussions about what we like or dislike about them.
I didn't mind the whole Wesley questioning if he Wanted to be in Starfleet or if he just felt like he had to join because of his father and all the effort others had put in his training to be a good story point.
The First Duty is not only the best Wesley Crusher episode, hands down, it introduces Sito Jaxha, whose follow-up appearance in Lower Decks is memorably sympathetic.
Great video. I hope that Wesley Crusher will make an appearance on "Picard", even if for just one episode.
I never had problem with Wesley, I liked the character just fine. Many of the early episodes that focused on Wesley solving the problem of the week were frustrating though. Not because of Wesley himself, but the way the other characters acted towards him. He'd be like "Lore's a bad guy and is impersonating Data!" and the other characters would be like "SHUT UP WESLEY!". It's frustrating because as the audience we know Wesley is right and the other characters come off as stupid and arrogant when they dismiss him. This happens in several episodes. I've always wondered if some people directed that frustration towards Wesley's character, whereas I directed it towards the rest of the cast that he interacted with. Either way it's almost never a good thing for a writer to have the audience know more than the characters, and Wesley exacerbated that by being our proxy in several of those situations.
Also: "No one holds a candle to me." Was that a nod to the Beverly boned by a candle-ghost-alien thing?
This episode never happened
@@edmundthespiffing2920 ha! Even Lower Decks references it.
My god how well known is the Scottish "ghost" incident???
I felt bad for her - when she fell in love with a swashbuckler, who was actually a parasite (his own words). Not an enviable position.
"No one on this ship holds a candle to me!" Good one Steve. 😂
I remember thinking then, every new series dreams of a breakout character or star - a Fonzi, Urkel, Seven-Of-Nine, JR Ewing, Spock.
In the 60’s ‘Lost In Space’ went from ‘Space Family Robinson’ to ‘The Dr. Smith, Will Robinson, & The Robot Show’. He was obviously targeted to be a proxy character for the young male nerd audience - but through whatever alchemy decides which lightning bolt gets caught in the bottle, the early breakout, I would argue, was Data.
I started watching TNG when I was about 8 and Wesley, though not my favorite character, he was someone I looked up to because I wanted to be in Starfleet and he was closer to my age. Rewatching TNG, I see him with nostalgia rather than annoyance.
Wil does seem tobe a good dude, but there is one instance of somebody giving him crap that was total gold:
He put out a tweet telling people that "anyone who says, 'Shut up Wesley' is getting blocked." Patrick Stewart replied, "Shut up Wil."
I was in my middle school years when Wesley Crusher was on tv, that kid was me on TV.
I seriously do not get why it's okay in fandom to just say "Wesly this, & that" I loved the character.
To constantly pick on Wesley Crusher is just low hanging fruit when the science of the show is soooo damn good.
My favorite Trek series are when they explore imo
I was waiting for the, "I've got this sweater you lent my son. Losing him is bad enough, hearing he was a coward was worse, but the worst thing is your fashion sense. I can't stand to remember him wearing this," comment from you, Steve.
It’s too bad Wesley left the show when the character was getting good. But, maybe the one off appearances worked better for the character anyway.
Anything thing that Wesley failed at so DS9 could do it well: the whole time-warping alien messiah thing! They never did figure out how to make that work for Wes, but they got it right for Ben Sisko.
I liked Wesley. A huge reoccurring theme is that Wesley tells them something important, they ignore him, and he was correct the whole time. It keeps happening lol
My favorite is TMP. It's just a giant movie length episode of TOS and I love it.
Steve's voice-over for the Star Trek scenes is hilarious. The Nick Locarno head-canon is hilarious.
This was very much worth a re-watch. I remember going to a ST convention in Minnesota back in 1988 or so with my brother. Someone was there from Paramount and showing slides--it was 1988 after all--and it was mostly TNG slides. Next Gen was still very much new and that first season--the first two actually--was pretty raw and developmental. I sensed that they were trying to build some consensus for the 'new' Trek. Anyway, any slide with Wesley on it drew lots of boos and loud ones. The studio rep was very taken aback by this and asked the audience why.
I think that Wil Wheaton often did unfairly get the blame for not-great writing and character development. Unfortunately, this happens in fandom. Jar-Jar, kid Anakin, etc. Not the fault of the person doing their best to pull off something harder because it may lack some depth. I liked how you highlighted that it was not his fault. You struck a good note for fairness as you always do! ;-)
The only thing I cannot forgive about Wesley is the sweaters... The sweaters...
Yeah, most of the bad things about Wesley came straight from the writers' strike. I still definitely make some "Shut up, Wesley" and such meme jokes, but they're from a place of liking Star Trek. Sort of how you may have inside insults with your friends but a stranger starts making fun of your friend and now it's not okay.
He's Jonny Quest, he's Robin, he's Bucky Barnes. He's the plucky, precocious sidekick who sometimes gets the chance to shine for good or ill.
I'm going to do a series rewatch. Welsey was never a problem for me. I was young, and he got to science in space... 🤓😎