Animation in Action Games
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- On the topic of animation, and why it is important to think carefully about the way it functions in tandem with combat in action games.
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gatheryourparty...
Music used:
Hotline Miami 2 Wrong Number - Rust
L.A. Noire - Menu Theme
Nujabes - Aruarian dance
Catherine - Also Sprach Brooks
Ollie King - Teknopathic
Yo, that analogy with the movement of the circle was a great way to illustrate your point. Good stuff.
This is why God Hand still works, despite the budget feel. You can tell they put the bulk of their art budget into the animations. They're smooth and beautiful
You are so undersubbed man. Honestly I am so glad that I stumbled upon your channel. Some of the best video game material I've ever watched. Keep it uo
With regards to Arkham, you can disable those prompts and still be very effective in figuring out what's going on. The key is paying less attention to the attack animations and more to the overall movements of the characters. They'll start moving closer towards you with a much more aggressive posture overall when they're getting ready to hit you.
Incredibly informative/awesome video! Great job!
Fantastic music selection. Nujabes is life.
YES DUDE. But I actually started grinning when the video started and the Hotline Miami music started playing.
EDIT: Oh shit, this video is actually not that new.
Ninja Gaiden has by far BY FAR the best combat animations of any video game I've seen, it single-handedly revived my interest in the genre. Never played a game with more satisfying combat and it's more then just flair. All 3 main games, Sigma 1, 2 and Razor's Edge are amazing. It's hard to get exited for melee combat in other games after having played those games.
Devil May cry
Sekiro
literally not true lol
Razor’s Edge has the best combat ive played in an action game. i hated it at first, but after giving it a chance its more addictive than any other action game ive played
I was an animator before, I was in a competition from Stickpage called BSE, I did my entry (it was a combat animation oriented competition, they gave you a sequence of moves with certain conditions to animate) I think I got a 6.5 because the animation was a little rushed, everybody walked super fast and when the chatacters talked there was absolutely no sound so it was boring to read text with nothing for 1 minute. Butwhat the judges liked about my animation is that the combat scenes were well done and it had impact, I knew the basic preparation for a move-execution- cooldown formula, but I never really understood why it makes the move feel impactful. This video helped me a lot, thanks.
Inamol shame you got an average score, but keep doing animation bro. Hopefully you can make your own game, and I'll be able to play it.
God, Stickpage was my childhood
I know this video is more than 1 year old now, but I feel like I have to say something about the God Hand Part. For between Level 1 and Level 3, the animations really do not get faster, but I think this changes on Level Die. The enemies really attack faster there, you'll especially notice that for the demon enemies.
Monster Hunter is a pretty good example for this. It's all about weight, commitment, exaggerated / clear moves, and tells. Especially when running solo. It's what makes it such a great game, and separates it from most of the clones and other action games IMHO.
IMO you can't compare batman with the other games in this video... the Fighting system in batman is basically a reactiontest, comparable with Music games. it is all about not breaking the combo and 1 wrong buttonpress kills your combo. if you counter without anyone to counter you loose your combo, if you punch the air, you loose your combo etc.
Not much of a challenge since all you have to do to continue your combo is:
1. Press triangle at the right time (the time window is not that tight, even on the hardest difficulty)
2. Direct the left analog stick and press square.
You can style if you want but there is no point in doing that
Jack Mcloan Theres 100 percent a point in changing up your combat and doing more than just pressing triangle. It allows you to speed through combat, gain higher scores, fight enemies who can’t be countered by just pressing triangle, and generally just have fun. They really encourage you to switch things up and use all your gadgets and this really shows in the combat maps which require you to really dig into the combat system to get 3 stars on the maps.
Somewhat true, but what would be more accurate is Arkham being a lower difficulty music game while the others are higher difficulty thus having faster rhythm and more variety. All of the mentioned game have penalties but not as direct since they have more methods to assess competency.
Considering that Arkham doesn't give you a choice on what the next square press would do, missing hits is the only way they could judge.
Great video! The best I saw about the theme!
Antecipation was very important to translate 2D brawlers to 3D. Final Fight and Streets of Rage didn't have so much antecipation since it worked on a 2D plane, which is much simpler to react. I remember how my mind was blowed when I played DMC for the first time! "A proper brawler in 3D! The genre is safe!"
I really like this video. Very thoughtful. Good job man.
This is a fascinating video, you got a sub and i will easily look into more of yours
Action isn't a genre, it's a hypergenre, containing many genres within it.
this was great. As a dev, I never contemplated this. I think you just internalize what is good from a "hands on feel" so this was a great break down + 10:05 *YAH THAT ENDING MUSIC*
Good presentation and great music taste. You deserve a sub.
Excellent video. I can tell you put a lot of time into this. I agree that DMC2's animations were perhaps the biggest blunder with that whole mess.
In arkham games there's this weird rhythm the goons end up falling in, at least for me, where I need to parry an attack at a very consistent timing. It lead to me not really needing to watch the screen and need only listen at the sound of my attacks since I knew their timing and could count to when I needed to parry.
This video reminds me of the old UA-camr Alarmhat, he used to make a lot of great videos about action games.
this was fascinating! great video
Really interesting video, thanks for the info!
A lot of great points were made. I've never played God Hand so I can't really comment, but I do agree with what was said about Batman and DMC2 in particular with no weighty motion, or the DMC games and Bayonetta with their cancels. That being said, the Arkham games aren't combat focused, like other action/Hack'n'Slash games, so I don't think its that fair of a comparison. The Arkham games are way more fun when you're stealthing around. I also think it was a bit unfair to talk about DMC2, but then not mention the improvements 3 or 4 made. I know gameplay was shown, but a passing comment on their improvements would have been nice.
Team Ninja is amazing at combat animation. I think DOA also implements easing pretty well. Still hoping for Ninja Gaiden 4 though. :
I am glad that I'm subscribed to you. Thank you for this!
JSRF music in the end!
Not sure if anyone has commended you on this, but you choose excellent music for your videos.
It's funny that you show footage of Bayonetta 2 while mentioning enemies telegraphing attacks, since B2 has some glaring examples of bad audio/ visual tells. especially with the Masked Lumen.
Just found out about your video. Great content, yo. So, talking action animation, what do you think about " lost soul aside " ,the still in development game of a Ps4 ?
You´ve got good taste in games and music. I doubt that even half of the viewers knew that it´s Ollie King at the end ;)
Thoughts on DMC5's animations? I heard some people keep saying it's animations are jank.
What should happen when a melee weapon, like a hammer or sword hits an enemy?
Screenshake, Particles ... but then? Slicing through enemies as if they where ghosts?
What animation should be played on the player on a hit vs missing the enemy or are they the same?
Is there a difference between blunt weapons (club, hammer) and sharp weapons (sword, knive)?
Great choice of background music. I heard a track from Samurai Champloo and that really brought me back to the show xD
Good shit as usual Turbo Button.
It looks like you went deep in your research, great video, you should do a video about the PS2 Berserk game, I think it is a good action game.
Subbed. Awesome channel, you're really taking things to the next level. Hope you keep doing what you're doing.
That Catherine soundtrack in the background
This reminds me of how well Shadow Fight franchise animations!
aaaahhww.... the amagazing GODHAND i really love that game!!!
This video is superb. I can't wait to see more!
yeah, devil may cry 2 should have been better but i think that the slow movement on dante made me feel like he was old and slow, i liked it, but i liked only that xD and the devil trigger, the rest was crap xD
Love Ninja Gaiden 2 Singma and this video!
My dude why you out here making videos, go make some games lol you clearly understand alot
i just want game devs to stop trying to be movies and just be confident in making a good game
Shinobi (PS2), I LUV YA!!!!
Great Video, btw. ;)
+TheMrCrown Oh and if you love this stuff, be sure to have Samurai Western and Blood Will Tell on your radar.
Really great video! Does it not fuck with the frame pacing of the game though if animations are delivered like this? (I'm probably wrong, just wondering)
Mad Max has the best fighting in an open world sandbox game I think. The punch and kicks and breaking necks are so violent and punchy it's like you feel your mouse has an in built vibration
But DMC3 doesn't have low commitment. You can't cancel your attacks in this game. You can still cancel the recovery frames after the attacks. I would say it's an average commitment.
you indeed can, enemy step takes priority over every other action in the game with the only stipulation being that the characters are in the air. its the reason jump canceling is completely integral to the advanced playerbase for dmc combos.
I like to think that the lack of animation cancelling is a bad game design.
Dude, I just came across your channel and I have to say that your videos are awesome. I'm totally binging all of these videos for sure. Keep it up :)
dark souls 2 has the worst animations of all time
That screen tear @ 6:14 was seriously on cue :D
any game made by bethesda is a joke in this department
9:12 dude, these halberd swings looks so hokey and unsatisfying. I mean i've never held one (they seem pretty heavy), but come on man, try to show some grace.
Great point about the Batman Games.
I knew I hated the game for its combat but I couldn't pin point my main gripe with it.
Dark souls 2 you can cancel attack animations
The primary reason for prompts in Arkham games is accessibility. The hard fact is that Arkham games sold many millions of copies, are popular and acclaimed - while God Hand sold poorly and was so obtuse that even most reviewers didn't 'get' its fighting system, hurting even its critical reception.
FUN FACT: Arkham IS playable without prompt and lack of pre-knowledge about enemy patterns. Arkham Asylum allowed you to disable prompt on the FIRST playthrough (that's what "Hard" difficulty mode was) and it's perfectly doable to look for enemy tells ahead of time, the game is perfectly beatable this way. In fact, it seems that the very first room of AA was designed so you learn tells of basic enemies (which are 90% of enemies in the game) or die trying, acting as a natural, if brutal, tutorial.
Original intent, I'm guessing, was probably that seasoned hack'n'slash* player can disable the prompt and manually look for tells, while the casual audience who never played a hack'n'slash game doesn't need to be burdened with looking for enemy tells by having baby wheels on. I don't know why in City and later they shifted prompt-less combat to a NG+ thing - probably to artificially inflate amount of game content because Warner Bros.
* - I'm using the term 'hack n slash' because that's the only real name this genre of games has. "Action game" is generic and can refer to fighting games, first person shooters, third person shooters, shmups, rail shooters, action RPGs - I've seen people call even some platformers 'action games'.
EXACTLY my thoughts. I planned on writing something on this topic for quite a while.
Some great examples as well. This whole thing can also be applied to non-interactive animations, like for example the finishers in the God Of War games. Some of them feel so satisfying to pull off (=watch and occasionally push a button or waggle the stick) because of the great, weighty animation that has a buildup, a very fast execution, and an aftermath.
Example: The finisher of the elephant dude in Ascension. The Cyclops eye-rip in GOW3. All the Cerberus-type finishers, no matter which one.
I remember watching all the finishers of all the GOW games. There's actually compilations on youtube of all of them.
I know it's an old video (Thanks by the way. Tons of deceptively obvious information that most people don't think about), but I just have to point out one thing: Fortunately your fears about motion capture didn't came true. Looking at the games that Naughty dog produces (especially behind the scenes videos), DevDiary of Ninja Theory's Hell Blade and many more became apparent that you can't just throw in a bunch of mocap footage into the game - it simple doesn't work that way ) Not any time soon anyway )
An analysis video with nujabes in the background. How original.
All snark aside, this is a pretty cool video. I'll check out your other stuff.
bayonetter.....
In 'Arkham' - ya can turn off the _'I'm about to attack'_ lightning-halo thingie, in the game options....Seems like a fair design compromise to me.
Animation is fundamental for kinesthetics. Without a good animation in action games does not help to feel immersed either in battles as frantic as Bayonetta or in slower but with great weight as in the Souls games.
I always assumed the hardest difficulty of Batman removed the prompts. I liked the prompts because I'm not Batman, but I like to feel like him.
This video is really old and it feels like the channel is dead but i have to comment about something.
In GodHand you can cancel animations with dodges. It is just something really unexplored but at a higher level of gameplay it feels great.
Also, loved the channel, don't know why it's dead.
Ninja gaiden 2 is such a amazing game... never found another fighting game that was as satisfying to play as the ninja gaiden series.
Dmc and bayonetta might be up your corner for you.
L.A. noire music ;)
This reminds me of a short documentary I saw on how Jackie Chan edits his fight footage, where the wide shot ends with a fist/foot connecting, but the zoom in/close up, is pulled back a frame or two to exaggerate the strength of the hit, while making it easier to understand what's going on in a fight on screen. Having more frames for a wind up, cancelable or not, feels pretty cool when done right, even when just watching gameplay.
Ur every vid is great mate. Subscribed long ago just kiddin 10 min ago.
Only just found this channel :)
Subscribed! Excellent work bro
Good video, great nujabes
Man, you were doing great and informative videos, this for example had great analysis of the mechanics and interesting data, let's hope that someday you'll upload great content again, wish you the best.
Not to be that guy but you're totally wrong about god-hand, lol. lvl 4 difficulty really boost their anims
Been marathoning your videos for most of today. Very excellent content on here!. You really deserve more subscibers
Your vids should be more popular. I don't know what to add to this comment but I can at least add a few numbers to the view count.
Sam Harold Haha, thanks. To be honest I'm pretty surprised it even got this many views already after uploading it yesterday, already shot up to my top 3 most viewed somehow.
Turbo Button Well even still, I'd feel like a lot of people would find this sort of video awesome. You really know your stuff on video games.
Sam Harold
Thanks a lot, glad you enjoyed.
This is an excellent video! It was posted on neogaf and I'm now a new subscriber :)
Watching from vietnam
Really good channel. Playing bloodborne made me realise how much I miss the action genre.
I really wish I could hit a "like all" button. Fairly pointless to have to scroll down at this point.
Awesome video, very smart and in depth. And you use music from Catherine, a man after my own heart.
Okay, so I'm not going to argue with any of your points because a lot of them are actually really good points, I just want to ask a question about how your points relate to Devil May Cry 3 and 4. The reason for this is because, I've been watching footage of Devil May Cry 3 and 4, and have even played these games before, and I've noticed that Dante in Devil May Cry 3 doesn't really have a lot of exaggeration in his moves, not really a whole lot of wind-up or impact effects but Dante's attacks are still a lot of fun to pull off nonetheless. Of course there are exceptions to this in these two games, depending on the weapon you're using (I've noticed a lot more windup on Beowulf and Gilgamesh than Agni & Rudra or Cerberus) but in general the weapons in Devil May Cry 3 and 4 are still a lot of fun to mess with but they don't seem to me, on the surface, to be utilizing the strategies in animation that you've presented.
So what's the problem? What is it that I'm not getting?
Except Devil May Cry's 3 and 4 do utilize these techniques, a lot. Though granted may be a little harder to recognize when playing on turbo mode as everything's sped up.
Take for example, Rebellion's basic three hit combo. the first two slashes come out pretty quick but the third and final slash has a little pause before brings Dante brings the sword down on his opponent. this, as well as the screen shake and impact frames accompanied by the final slash, give the combo a sense of speed and weight. The Special Edition of DMC4 even added slash effects on the enemies to accompany he slashes as well.
The animation itself is quite exaggerated as well. on the first slash Dante brings the sword downward diagonally whilst putting his foot forward and bending his knees. On the 2nd slash, Dante brings his other foot forward as he slashes upwards diagonally while twisting his body to match the momentum of the slash. Then Dante let's Rebellion hang in the air for a brief moment before spinning around slashing downward diagonally and bending his knees again, this time, with some recovery on the final slash as well as the previously screen shake and impact frames. This holds true for most of Dante's animations. His fighting style can best be described as controlled, but wild.
Really? Because I clearly saw the camera shake and the enemy shake for the impact animations, which I guess solves one problem. But even with Rebellion and Red Queen, Dante and Nero just seem like they're swinging a sword around. True there's time between attacks, I'm not arguing against that but it didn't seem like enough of a pause to get across the whole "Considerable effort put into the swing" thing that happens often during Ninja Gaiden 2's Executions.
Or is it simply that the wind-up doesn't have to be THAT significant in order to produce a feeling of weight?
I'm not trying to be combative if I'm coming off that way, I'm simply trying to understand how all this works.
Because there are more technices, that allow you to create a feeling of a hit. Graphic effects, respond animations (when enemies "get hit"), camera movement, sound (very important for me personally; for example, the upcoming Nioh is good in many ways, but it's horrible, "plastic" sword slashes sounds I just can't stand) and of course the overall good movement animations, that are close to what is happening in the real world (despite that it may be some fantasy dragon punching some knights - the basics are always the same). That's why motion capture is cool. (Btw, example of an awful movement animation is the one in this video, in Dark Souls. Those halberd swings looks like there were done with a hand tide up to man's chest. Agh).
The author, I guess, just didn't bring up all of those technics)
Is this kid a genius or does he work in the gaming industry? or both? can't tell
Are you using a mod for that Catwoman outfit or is it dlc? I have never seen it before
Animation is most critical in sports games but the usually game critic snobs never bother
Nujabes 👌
about your argument with Arkham city (nice HUD by the way, is that exclusive to the PC version?): In the new game plus mode, the game forces you into combat without those attack prompts above enemies' heads. Meaning that you will have to pay attention the next time you play the game. Just pointing it out. I think the developers did this attack prompt in the normal mode to allow players to familiarise themselves with enemy attack patterns so when the time came to play the games again, the players would be ready for a tougher, more intense challenge.
did you not hear him bring that up?
+Night Man No I didn't. Maybe I mis-heard it.
vanillagear2000 he said while playing arkham city that new game plus removing them was made useless since the player already memorized the attack patterns and a player shouldn't need a whole game of practice before not needing the giant heads up. Or something along those lines.
is weight only a delusion in action games animation? no gravity on the bodies involved?
Great video! Definitely earned my subscribe!
is that nujabes
I haven't played Devil May Cry 2 since it came out, and while I don't remember liking it very much, I know I enjoyed it enough to beat it once or twice. I've been wondering for years now what was so bad about it and why everyone else hated it, and now that I've seen those attack animations again after playing so many better games, I can see exactly why. That Stinger move is just awful.
Todd Brown Also when the enemies don't do anything you can mash any attack button and win. Helicopter boss, Tanks, 3 swords with just different length and attack, Dante is boring, Boring level design, and it was slooooooooooooooooooow.
Very interesting - I've never really thought about just how complex animation in games is, maybe that's because if it's done right you don't really think about it. The Last Of Us had an interesting animation on the enemies - when you hit them they are knocked back or to the side in a single frame, which I didn't notice while playing. In the making of videos I think they said this was to give more impact to the combat, and it really works.
Phil8719 I think this is done in The Last of Us so you can't easily land successive shots in combat. Aside from a few sections, using guns is more of a fallback because stealth is more incentivized. Aiming is quite difficult and ammo is scarce, making you take time in lining your shots in conjunction to enemy movement and animation. It's the opposite of RE4, where enemies are deliberately made slow and stiff since you can't move while aiming and ammo is also scarce. But aiming in RE4 is more precise thanks to the laser sight, so the game doesn't feel cheap and unfair
you should do a video about animation in survival horror
Neat.
lol i hear that champloo soundtrack in there
Oh god, that screen tearing in Ninja Gaiden...
Great video. So this is why Dark Souls 2 feels weightless and floaty in comparison to Dark Souls 1
indeed, its the worst game ever made
haha which is better ninja gaiden or dmc
Am I the only one who would rather play dmc2 than god hand or beyonetta???
Yes.
How did you see this comment when it has 0 likes?
And I don't think you played Lucia's campaign in dmc2.
love the video and aruarian dance!!!
I wish he'd say a word on god of war too ^^