Playing the Scripted Set Piece
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- Cinematic set-pieces are often a showcase for a game's production values, with the interactive element being pushed to one side. It's time to take a look at these largely-scripted scenes, not for their scale or their technology, but for the potential and miss-steps of their gameplay.
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Recommended watching: "The Evolution of Uncharted's Convoy Chase" • Evolution of The Uncha...
Hitman: Absolution footage from JagOfTroy (worldoflongplays)
Games shown (in order of appearance):
Uncharted 3
Spec Ops: The Line
Rise of the Tomb Raider
Tomb Raider
Uncharted 2
Uncharted 4
Half Life 2
Half Life 2: Episode 2
Splinter Cell: Blacklist
Hitman: Absolution
Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow
Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory
Splinter Cell
Music:
Ratatat - Loud Pipes
Hocus Pocus - On and On (Instrumental)
Kero One - This Life Ain't Mine (Instrumental)
Ratchet and Clank: Going Commando - Silver City
The Social Network - A Familiar Taste
Pete Rock - Glowing
Trackmania 2 - Tachmania
Tekken Tag Tournament 2 - Battle Cry
"When the stakes are fakes, there's no thrill on the grill"
Gold.
You've got the power to know
When is turbo button debuting his rap album
I never understood why the most intense moments in many of these action/adventures games take control away from the player. It's cool to watch but that's not what I bought the gaming console for.
so that way they work
At least the gameplay is great and polished. ND has reached perfection with Uncharted. The gameplay is excellent and well executed. Everything works perfectly.
People need to understand the difference between shallow depth and poor gameplay.
See: Dark Souls is my favorite franchise, but by 2019 I'm so tired I'm waiting for my vacation to start Sekiro! So many items with different effects and enemies and unique and connected scenarios. Just thinking about it makes me tired.
Uncharted offers challenge on the ultimate difficulty and best of all: you dont have to study the game!
These set pieces are a big part of the reason why I haven't touched a lot of the current AAA games. As you said, I usually find them almost insulting and they perfectly represent the bad design trends so many big budget games having been following for years now - this mistaken believe that orchestrating every single detail of your game can be a substitute for good, deep mechanics. Here's hoping devs and publishers take some of your suggestions to heart.
Same
At least the gameplay is great and polished. ND has reached perfection with Uncharted. The gameplay is excellent and well executed. Everything works perfectly.
People need to understand the difference between shallow depth and poor gameplay.
See: Dark Souls is my favorite franchise, but by 2019 I'm so tired I'm waiting for my vacation to start Sekiro! So many items with different effects and enemies and unique and connected scenarios. Just thinking about it makes me tired.
Uncharted offers challenge on the ultimate difficulty and best of all: you dont have to study the game!
@@afs3200 gameplay in uncharted is passable is nowhere near god tier action gameplay like resident evil 4
Lucas FS it’s trash and shallow
Jay Omega its the way dunkey puts it.
Its shallow but flashy enough to keep you engaged with it. I hated how simple uncharted action could be but when you piece everything together it becomes pretty flowing and tangible. Like swinging off a vine and landing on an enemy only to catch his AK47 and spray another enemy nearby as i dive-roll into cover and yank the enemy from the other side to mine and punch his face in. Its trash and shallow when you take it at face value but when you amalgamate all the different mechanics and controls it becomes something special. Not to say you can’t do that with just straight up gameplay but taking the environment into account can change the flow of everything.
Can we officially rename the game to Rise of the Planet of the Tomb Raiders? Can that be done? Thanks.
Rise of the War for the Return of the Planet of the Revenge of the Tomb Raiders
With no ACTUAL fuckin Tomb Raiding
I just got to this part of the video. I rewind back a little to see if I heard what I thank heard. Paused the video. Gave it a like. Gave me a chuckle lol
விஷ்ணு கார்த்திக் eh lara did raid tombs
@@DarshanBhambhani in the new games, raiding tombs was largely a side activity divorced from the main game. Tomb Raider stopped being about Lara Croft raiding tombs and more about drama when the reboot was made
It's only been like 4 years since the last upload, you need to slow down mate.
I like the interesting scenarios that the Uncharted set pieces present. Fighting a bunch of dudes while the cruise ship is tipping over felt great and very intense despite it obviously being very scripted. The build up is also Dying kills momentum so making them simple is intentional which leads to the feeling of smoke and mirrors.
On the other hand I feel like all Tomb Raider set pieces consists of Lara running and jumping while shit crumbles around her which is super disappointing considering the slightly more depth those games have.
I think gameplay is king but other things matter just as much for me.
I think Resident Evil 4 did it best. Nearly every room feels like a set pieces that changes the dynamic while still giving the player plenty of options.
SpeckObst except when RE4 loses itself with QTEs
Those make up less than 1% of the entire game and the Krauser fight actually is enhanced by the tension since the timing is pretty narrow.
SpeckObst No the QTE's are awful. I'd have rather walked/ran down an empty road than have ro QTE away from a boulder.
90% of the time in Resi 4, you're playing as Leon from a third person perspective and you have full control over his aim and movement. It rarely takes control from you to throw you into an "epic" exciting set piece and instead creates amazing set pieces through enemy placement, boss encounters and level design.
And I absolutely love Resi 4's use of QTEs, like the glory kills in the new DOOM, you're encouraged to play risky and move towards enemies when they stagger instead of running away. And don't even get me started on the way the game essentially gives Leon an un-spammable dodge move through QTEs. That game is just fucking genius.
As much as I love RE4, the QTE's are an issue. They are used so infrequently that it's easy to forget their existence and die because of that. Like it or not Cutscenes fundamentally have one important function in normal gameplay and that is a little break from the frantic action. QTE's fuck that concept in the ass. If the game had some more of QTE's and then some other quiet moments then the game would be alot better for it.
Just found this channel. So glad I've got a great UA-cam channel to binge.
I think the Nepalese village section and train sequence in Uncharted 2 were great set pieces because they do actually incorporate the key mechanics of the game.
fragr33f Yeah I still replay that. Nice balance between cinematic handholding and freedom
Exactly. You still have full control of Drake and have all the platforming, climbing and shooting just like sections of normal gameplay.
Couldn't agree more. That's why I hate most of these sequences.
Worst is these sequences are the most boring to develop and are the ones that drains the most resources out of a development team. They take forever to make right and cost a fortune. Way too much for moments that no one will want to replay.
At least the gameplay is great and polished. ND has reached perfection with Uncharted. The gameplay is excellent and well executed. Everything works perfectly.
People need to understand the difference between shallow depth and poor gameplay.
See: Dark Souls is my favorite franchise, but by 2019 I'm so tired I'm waiting for my vacation to start Sekiro! So many items with different effects and enemies and unique and connected scenarios. Just thinking about it makes me tired.
Uncharted offers challenge on the ultimate difficulty and best of all: you dont have to study the game!
The Madagascar chase as mentioned in the video is one if the most impressive if not THE most impressive set piece I've played in a game, its what every action set piece wishes it was, it plays great, looks great, lasts the perfect amount of time, gives the player plenty of control of the character, and I don't expect to see many sequences like that in other games because my lord that sequence sounds like it was a bitch to make.
Worth it, but not practical for everyone to be making set pieces like that
You put the thrill on all our grills.
I've always hated this trend. It's all smoke and mirrros as you said
5:55 - Stuff like this is why I feel I got as much out of watching a playthrough of Uncharted 4 as actually playing it myself. Essentially just watching the game play itself until the movie continues. Even the more successful set pieces you mention later on in the video, to me, felt about as engaging as any of the more static pop-and-shoot sections (although the kinetic, constantly changing nature of the setting does help). Pop out, shoot until no more boys, move on. At that stage you are basically just making an Indiana Jones film.
It was infuriating seeing all the discussion surrounding the game devolve into the same kind of "GAMES ARE NOW EQUAL TO MOVIES HOORAY" legitimacy conversation that hasn't been relevant since, well, Uncharted 2 came out. Like you say, it's not about linearity-to me, it would have been more exciting to watch without the minimal mechanical requirements reminding me that the tension is all fake. In that sense, making the player actually play those sections felt like a crucially BAD action movie.
Great vid as always, my dude.
Writing on Games Question for the two of you related to this: have either of you seen Novacanoo's video on Uncharted 4? His breakdown of the shooting system is one of my favorite analysis segments I saw last year. What's weird to me though is how advanced the shooting mechanics are despite the game's heavier focus on adventure and big bombastic set pieces. Based on just how much movement is happening on the screen all the time, it seems like a much simpler shooting system could have been built and we'd be none the wiser. Just wondering if you guys think that the advanced shooting in some way takes away from the game in that case, since it's unnecessary and doesn't really belong with the game's true core mechanics. Like, does the added complexity actually have a negative effect one them game? Any of that make sense or nah? Anyways, cheers guys!
Writing on Games I disagree. You're missing out on a lot not playing the game for yourself. And watching a play through is going to cut out most of the gameplay anyway so I'm not sure if your argument about the cutscene-to-gameplay ratio is even valid if you didn't actually play the game. If you do play the game, you'd know that the balance between story and gameplay is extremely well-done.
...most people feel the satisfaction of pretending to be part of the game.
even though you are just "playing" a Interactive Movie.
there are lazy designers in the same way that there are lazy players... or just people without enough free time.
Watching a play through will NEVER be as good as playing the game yourself
Bhiner1029 that may be true, but some games are just an absolute chore to play but have an amazing story. I don't think Uncharted is an example of this, though, as it was mad fun.
this is why i love MGS V (at least for the gameplay, the story is a bit.. disappointing)
it's a really dynamic experience
One thing about the set pieces in many post-PS3/X360 action games is the *often taking away of controls*. Uncharted, Tomb Raider Rising, Enslaved, all do it with result from "meh" to "boring". Even, Metal Gear Rising slows down when Raiden gets "injured".
The kind of beauty of Half Life 2 is that you are still under full control, so when you actually survive a set-piece, it's all the more satisfying.
Call of Duty has it's own share of setpieces, though they got pretty stale after Black Ops.
Also, I think you should also talk about "emergent gameplay" (or when setpiece gets generated through game systems and player's actions, like Far Cry and STALKER games), and compare it with this approach.
Anyways, another great video. Your videos have enlightened me a lot regarding games and ideas in them, and hope others too would understand and appreciate games better.
so are we just gonna avoid the fact that he said "rise of the planet of the tomb raiders" at 6:04 ??
Ignore it? He got my like because of it!
Aladelicous same here! Haha. I went back to see if I heard correctly. Paused the video to give it a like.
This is my exact problem with so many games today and the reason why the Spider-Man E3 trailer made me go "Oh no... :( "
Sahasrahla Well, Spider Man 2 on ps2 have that same kind of QTE
"When the steaks/stakes are fakes there's no thrill on the grill"
Ah, amazing idiom there
You deserve a like for that
As soon as I heard ratatat playing I knew I had to like
I didn't think it was even possible to do scripted sequences right.
If it was possible, I didn't think it could be explained in a simple expandable manner.
How did you do both!?
Yet uncharted is still my favourite franchise of all time.
nop
It's called having an opinion. You are not supposed to let others make your opinion
I don't complete disagree or agree but I'd argue that sometimes they take away some challenge in some set pieces because they don't want you to die and completely kill the momentum.
then why aren't they cutscenes I can skip? that is especially infuriating during multiple playthroughs
Kevboard Arts because they want you to play the game, and not watch it.
For example, the last boss from FF XV was not design to be hard, but cool looking instead. They did not want players interrupting the story moment because players were dying by the final boss multiple times.
Even so, the game gives you tons os extra bosses as real challenge.
+MemoriesLP
Gameplay should never be made less enjoyable just for the story.
Because watching cutscenes where the player character does some awesome looking shit isn't fun? Even if the skill ceiling is set fairly low a game with good game feel will always be more enjoyable than a non-interactive scene which is in all other respects equal.
Imperium Americanum FF XV has good mechanic feels but even so it has scenematic gameplay at a few bosses.
I dont see any problem at that.
The final boss use all the fundamentals of the combat system, but at the same time it has scenematic parts because the game is trying to show cool things too.
The boss before the final boss also has lots of scenematic parts while also using the fundamentals of the combat system.
So it really depends on the game.
You are wanting these games to be something they aren't. You are judging a fish on its ability to fly.
Gameplay is more varied than we give it cred it for. Gameplay can be a lot more than just the things I want them to be.
SPOILERS FOR METAL GEAR SOLID 4. I think the best use of it comes from MGS4, most precisely, the microwave scene. You need to crawl through a giant microwave to get to GW. The only thing you need to do is QTE but it feels so tense since you snake slowly dying and, on the lower half of the screen, you see what Liquid is causing and you just want it to sped up but it just can't
The sad Love Theme really made me feel awful..
Carl Filion I was like "Don't die on me damn it, you can do it Snake!"
God Of War 1-3 were a lot of the time scripted set pieces, and a lot of the most iconic moments were set pieces or QTEs. For some reason, we all, I included, fucking love God of War.
Because God of War's scripted set pieces were too crazy (especially because this is a franchise that uses monsters, gods and titans and stuff 99x bigger than the MC)
this topic reminds me what stories people share in games like battlefield... is it from campaigns, no. Battlefield online gameplay stories about some crazy rush or kill streak or whatever else exciting because it was not scripted bombastic barely interactive movie cut scene...
"Daigo's parry" would not be legendary or even remembered 10 min after if it was a cut scene or scripted event. Games are gameplay first and they are remembered for it.
You're first mistake was using Battlefield's campaign as an example.
The Uncharted fanboys are going to dislike this video...
Marius Urucu It wasn't you?
No. :3
Not likely. At no point does he say the Uncharted games are bad and two of the spices he gives glowing praise are from them. Plus most of his criticisms are related to missed potential rather than being outright bad.
Imperium Americanum Neither did I say they were bad. But you know how Uncharted fanboys are... just look at the IGN video revisw of Uncharted 4...
Eh, IGN and a lot of other big review sites have their criteria for a 9/10 or 10/10 set such that Uncharted 4 not getting that would be a huge headscratcher. For example IGN gave uncharted 3 a 10/10 and if you see uncharted 4 as being better than 3, as most people do 3 was pretty meh, then a 10/10 is the only acceptable score. Turbo Button and other smaller critics don't have that problem and as such you have to be, from the fanboys perspective, unjustifiably negative. I don't think this video qualifies as that.
Just noticed you used Ratchet and Clank 2 music in the background
GMMReviews ironically it has good example of setpieces. The train and that final grinding sequence.
Uncharted 4 was the one where I got really tired of these boring setpieces and fake tension. The game can be barely called a platformer, since falling and jump accuracy is a nonissue and 90% of platforming challenges are just one way pathways where you hold the stick in the direction you want to climb. The Madagascar chase was the only standout, everything else was just about running in a straight line and occasionally reacting to a predictable QTE, with several moments straight up copied from previous games. The Last of Us pulled it off better, with less predictable and much more lethal situations sprinkled throughout the game.
Mattchester That's because Uncharted isn't a platformer. It was not designed to be a platformer
Abraham 302 Then why the fuck are you climbing 80 percent of the damn game.
This is coming from someone who played the SHIT out of 2 and 3. (For the multiplayer)
But you’re straight up lying if you say the story mode in uncharted 4 wasn’t half climbing... And you’re right it’s NOT a platformer, so wtf was naughty dog doing? Idk... got sick of cliffs breaking and the usual fake tension crap. The effect wears off with age.. Like the OP said TLOU was way more successful, mainly because I thought something fucked up happening in this world is all too easy and fits so anything can happen. But Nathan falling? Nathan Drake? Falling to his death or anything really consequential at all happening to him? No nothings going to happen. They’re not even going to kill his brother again... TBH the ending was so disappointing.. Not the fact his brother lied I thought that was interesting. But idk Uncharted just had too good and clean of an ending...
Abraham 302 it is a platformer...
Benjamin Slater You ranting is unfocused. First you talk about platforming, then plot. At what point would you think the character would ever canonically die in the game because of something as insignificant as a cliff drop? Also, do you WANT a sad ending? Because that's a cliche within itself - especially considering the tone of the rest of the franchise.
Should be retitled to """"Playing"""" the Scripted Setpiece
I remember a game on the original xbox where the whole entire point of the game was to drive through crazy awesome set pieces. Wish i remembered the name of it. Damn.
How to make a game into a legitimate, challenging experience -- that tests the player -- WITHOUT breaking the immersion of its narrative? This is what the modern philosophers talk about.
Are video games just a lost art?
LOL. You don't really understand, that people play these games because they love this bombastic cinematic experience with it's scripted setpieces?
It's not like you couldn't improve those games even if they are already great, but seriously dude, only because of these scripted setpieces, these games feel that epic and cinematic.
It's like you are playing an Indiana Jones movie, and that's what people want (as you can see in the reviews). It's so annoying how some people always compare everything to Half-Life btw... How can you compare Uncharted or Tomb Raider (cinematic experiences with action, cutscenes, third person) to Half Life (fps, not cinematic at all, not a movie-like bombastic experience, much more concentrated on the gameplay). You should become aware of the fact, that not all people want a game to be played like Half-Life and that games are not developed for you.
Even if you made some interesting points, though.
6 years late but this, I personally love Uncharted for it, if you don’t like it then that’s you
I really like scripted set pieces, (when done right, like in Uncharted), so here are my thoughts.
Like you said, they are there partially to emulate movies. They give you the thrill of watching a crazy action scene. Problem is, if you are presented with a bunch of difficult challenges, then that conflicts with the flow of a crazy action scene. Because a lot of players will die. A lot. That ruins the momentum you want in a scripted set piece.
Remember the intro to Inside? If you die in that intro chase sequence, it feels awful. Not in a "I feel sorry for this kid" way, but in a "clearly the designers didn't want me to die here" way.
I think that's why the challenge has been sanded off the edges of scripted set pieces. If there's any real challenge to those segments, players will die frequently, causing the scene to lose momentum.
Obviously these types of scenes are not perfect, but if you're looking for skill challenges, I don't think Uncharted or the Tomb Raider reboot are the games to play. They're about spectacle, which I think they deliver on pretty well.
See, here's the thing for me (and this isn't so much a response to your video as much as it is my thoughts on the subject):
The big things I always here from people who don't like games that have lots of scripted segments are things like: it's not fun, it's lazy, it takes away the tension, it feels forced, etc. And it's like, for me, it's always: yes, it is; no, it isn't; no, not even remotely; and no, not if it's down well. That's just super-obvious to me.
Like for sure this is a mechanic that can be done terribly, just like any other mechanic, but this is in response to criticisms to games like the Uncharted series. The scripted sequences of the Uncharted series have consistently been some of the most exciting, tension building sequences I have ever played in a video game, NOT because there's actually a chance you're going to die, but simply because of the spectacle. And I know there are some people who are gonna laugh at that, and (again) call it fake, but like... that's just not true. They're pieces of epic cinema, and cinema straight-up isn't fake. (I mean it is, but the emotions it creates aren't.) It also, despite what so many people like to say, DOES have a place in video games and CAN create some incredibly memorable experiences, even with shallow gameplay.
Ultimately, I know, this simply comes done to taste. Some people simply can't get over the fact that the literal game play mechanics are very simple, and for them that ruins any experience the game might give. However, I feel because of that, many people discount some very well-done, amazing games.
A fantastic example of this done well is the Ginso Tree in Ori and the Blind Forest. The entire tree is a good example of level design which also introduces and expands upon two new mechanics (blue things which teleport the player as well as a new ability called "bash"). Once the player has gotten through sections which require understanding of these new mechanics, the game throws a wrench at the player in the form of an exciting set piece... the tree floods with water. This requires the player to rapidly link together all the mechanics they have learned up to that point in quick succession (jump, double jump, wall jump, using the teleports, bash, etc.) It is both a flashy set piece that creates a very tense moment as well as a "final test" of the player's understanding and mastery of mechanics. It is hands down the best moment in the game... and that is what you want to do as a game developer; create memorable moments.
Start of Ginso Tree: ua-cam.com/video/Wh6gBjfXKxw/v-deo.htmlm21s
Start of set piece: ua-cam.com/video/Wh6gBjfXKxw/v-deo.htmlm23s
God bless the Tekken tag 2 music at the end
One thing that Tekken always nail
I didn't watch the whole video just the first minute and I agree. But I believe that many people actually misunderstand games like Uncharted. They are not really games. They are intereactive movies. Like Heavy Rain. It's all there is to it. But if you want to play a game, then you play something like Zelda, like Devil May Cry... hell... the best of all, Super Mario Bros. It's just gaming from start to end.
Uncharted and Heavy Rain are not the same. Uncharted is a platformer/third person cover shooter. Heavy Rain is a multi choice story based game where decisions can get playable characters killed and result in different endings, none of which is present in Uncharted. Like, how are they the same? They're just not.
@@ashleythomas4112 You misunderstod my point. The game design are completely different, but they both have a common denominator that doesn't diferentiate the at all. And this is an interactive movie. Half of Uncharted always get's interrupted by cinematic sequences during the gameplay with the exact same graphic and they are both very story heavy during both periods (gaming and cinematics) Uncharted is a movie that you are playing. Hence interactivity. Heavy Rain is exactly the same thing, the only differences is that way you play it. Look it this way. Chess and Draught are two completely different games, but the both belong to the same genre. They are bord games and thinking games. I hope you do get what I mean.
Mario is not an interactive movie, but is third person like uncharted. Devil May Cry at least before the PS3 times and Darksiders are Third Person as well, but they are not considered as interactive movies. But in the end you can see it how you like. I say it is like this and it is also considered like it by many. If someone just can't make the difference between playabiltiy and or how you play a game then I would recommend you to check out what game design measn. I didn't understand game design since a year now. I though it was how games looked and all but actually the game designer is like the director in a movie. It is the one guy who has the vision of the game, how it looks, what story it has and how you play it. that means also knowing what your avatar will do when you push these buttons. It's a hell of a job and responsibility. So yes. Both games are very different and yet they are the same. I hope you understand what I mean.
Cheers my friend.
And yet, I love these moments in gaming.
It started with the game "Split Second" and the Time Attack Races.
At the end of the airfield, a plane crashes down... and that moment is just phenomal and I played that level over and over again, just to witness this moment.
that Loud Pipes timing.
Nice.
"If the steaks are fake, then there's no thrill on the grill."
10/10
A lot of Sonic games have this problem, though not to as much of an extent. Sonic Lost World has way too many segments where control is taken away while you run around at a cool camera angle. I really wish it wouldn't do that.
Absolutely... But while Sonic Adventure and on have been criticized harshly for it (and rightly so), Uncharted mostly gets a free pass because... it's new and shiny unlike old Sonic Adventure, I guess.
The scripting in sonic adventure is something k can easily excuse tho. In the classic games all his movement depended on how the physics worked (or whatever they did to make it look like the game had physics) and that's way harder to do in 3D especially in a 20 year old game. A non scripted 3D sonic game that uses the Genesis style of movement would be very interesting.
The song at 7:17 is A Familiar Taste, it is from the sound track of the movie "The Social Network"... :)
Some games are more like semi-interactive movies than games. In a real game *you* should be the only one who determines what happens. It's all a bit too obvious that now a days there's more money in the game industry than in the movie business. Game levels today are "directed" rather than designed...
Damn nice rhymes at 4 minutes
nice vid. I personally disagree with your criticism of Half Life 2's boat mission feeling "out of place". In my opinion, Half Life 2 offers unrivaled variety in gameplay consistently throughout the whole experience; variety that the 2 vehicle sections enhance, not take away from. I do agree with your main point of the vid. Those 'scripted' moments when you're still 'technically' in control serve to do nothing more than be interactive cutscenes... not unlike telltale games or the entirety of David Cage's games.
I love tropical freeze's gameplay set pieces because it you don't lose control and they actually elevate the gameplay
This video makes me feel like... You should do a video on noman's sky.
The problem is they are all supposed to be cinematic moments, with great pacing and build up of an adrenaline rush to a thrilling climax, and to experience them fully... you have to not die. That's the very point of them. You have to just make it through by the skin of your teeth while feeling that death was close, but not actually dying, otherwise all the tension and build up of excitement is lost as you do the most "gamey" thing ever... play the same bit again.
And players vary hugely in skill level, so they have to make it survivable for people with slow reactions. I agree, the more agency a player has, the better, but only if an average player is able to still make it through first try. So they are always going to skew to the easy side, except in cases where the get the balance just right of teaching you the mechanic to survive them without being too intrusive. As you say, the ones where they depend on core skills are the best.
The entire reason these scripted action scenes exist, and why they're not skill based, is because ten years ago they would have been cutscenes. But game developers listened to people's complaints that cutscenes were boring/unfun, so they make them playable. That's why you got QTEs, and then later on these kinds of set pieces. They're not meant to be tests of skill, they're meant to be cutscenes that are interactable.
One game which did set pieces gracefully is The Last Guardian. They exist to grow the bond between the boy and Trico, and because your character can't fight, it makes you feel vulnerable. One particular set piece which I found effective is designed to make the player feel helpless, something that I felt none of the Uncharted games have ever done.
Interesting video, but I think you're still downplaying the uncharted games a bit in order to have them fit your analysis of where gaming stands, when in reality these games already do what you wanted from them. Sure the games are full of scripted moments in between but when they want to go really into the action, they do it flawlessly, like in u4 every major setpiece does this, it takes gameplay concepts and tests your reflexes as well as presenting an exciting situation. Personally I'm ok with having moments like the jeep hanging from the cliff as long as it helps the pacing of the story and is followed by a combat encounter with great level design and as long as the game still gives me great setpieces when it's really trying. The example you gave of the tower collapse isn't even aplicable here, it does exactly what you said, the environment is presented in an interesting way and if you dont attach the rope, you will die, if you don't keep running and jumping, you will die, if you don't react quickly to that grenade, you will die, if you don't jump to that ledge after sliding in that mud hill, you will die, the wood barrier is to distract your eyes before you have to react by jumping, making it even more interesting
Knurdyob He was saying that you need to make the set pieces bring out more interesting mechanics, although it looks nice, for the most of the clock tower your doing the same shit that you do In the normal fights. He’s not downplaying anything.
@@brendanspaulding7930 3 years late to this, sometimes yt doesn't notify you of replies. don't even remember writing that but I don't think I was wrong, he's downplaying the uncharted games a bit as there's always been this narrative against them that portrays them as too "noninteractive", in my opinion they were really great at avoiding that, the setpieces (especially in the last one) are built around gameplay elements rather than on conceptual spectacle at the expense of player input.
In the tower scene we're doing the same thing we've done before sure, but I don't see how that's a negative. It's the "gameplay" of the game. games should have a certain consistency, the game introduced elements in the first half, and then stuck with them throughout the second. I get the appeal of fantacizing about "something more", but we can always ask for more, no matter how much they give us. The game being consistent in it's gameplay elements is a positive, instead of introducing new elements the whole way through. (U4 for example did something different with each setpiece in the 1st half, already doing what the video wanted from it, don't think it's a fair criticism to say it should've kept introducing more things through the 2nd half).
my main point though was that while it's true most action games followed this trend of "visual spectacle over gameplay", and that does warrant videos discussing the matter, I thought it was important to recognize the exceptions, I think the uncharted games were part of the few that avoided this for the most part
I came here from that Shammy video and slapped that subscribe button. Nice video!
Personally, I love the big set-piece moments such as those in Tomb Raider reboot games. I think it's impressive how they manage to feel intense despite being simple to play through, but I'm definitely all for developers trying to spice these moments up a bit more in the gameplay department. It could also come down to personal taste as well. I prefer allowing myself to be swept up into whatever game I'm playing, and since this comes naturally it is easier to feel the intensity of the set-piece so I can play in the moment. I would probably hate most video games if I came across one of these moments only seeing them from a strictly gameplay perspective! I think it's great hearing perspectives like in this video because it's one I may not even consider otherwise!
Fr, I love the set-pieces in gaming, mostly because I’m an action fan, Uncharted is one of my favorite games ever
I don't really agree with all of this but great points :)
The uncharted series has the best set pieces in video game history.
I still prefer Uncharted over the other tries the industry has made any day in the last few years to emulate this differently.
dude u thinking a lot ... wat matters is dat do i had great fun playing uncharted ... yes i did !!! it shud end there
I think it's worth talking about Call of Duty if we're going to talk about setpieces. CoD has consistently made setpieces an opportunity to test your skills in new or more difficult scenarios. My personal favorite in the recent games is the asteroid setpiece in Infinite Warfare - by putting you on a rapidly rotating object close to the sun you are forced to use movement tech and combat skill to move and eliminate enemies without getting burnt alive.
four years later unwanted opinion:
Perhaps they're so restrictive because of the developers fear that the player will die too often? Nothing is more infuriating than having to play that one cutscene again and again and again and again and again and again, and that's what those set pieces essentially are.
It's only infuriating to replay a section of the game if that section of the game has no replay value like an Uncharted set piece. As in, if it was a big "set piece" that had interesting, dynamic, and fitting mechanics and interactivity instead of scripted sequence, it wouldn't be just "watching the same cutscene again and again", because it wouldn't be glorified cutscene anymore. It'd just be the game.
I do think it's probably that they don't want the player dying too often, but it's probably not out of frustration with losing. Overcoming challenges are what games are all about. I think it's more that the player dying halts the story's flow and they're setting out to make a cinematic story experience first, not a game.
Great insights, never thought there are so many aspects to the game lol
Your videos blow me away. Great writing, interesting ideas, engaging visuals, and loads of other awesome things you do. Keep up the great work.
6:04- "RISE OF THE PLANET OF THE TOMB RAIDERS" did anyone else hear that?
This is why Uncharted always felt like a poor man's Half Life to me. Despite some flaws, Half Life usually feels like you're actually playing a video game in these sequences, whereas Uncharted you're basically guiding Nate through the pre-thought out movie sequences with no ability to deviate from the pre-determined path.
There's very few games that manage to pull off scripting and proper gameplay in tandem, as well as Half Life 2.
To be fair, wasn't Uncharted's entire _thing_ that it was supposed to be a game that looked like a movie?
DrearierSpider1 have you played the games? Uncharted 2's train and uncharted 4's chase are miles ahead of anything half life has to offer
Jesus Christ hahahahahahahahah you interact a fuckton more in uncharted than you do in half life, half life has a fuckton of sections where you need to just walk around and listen to boring dialogue from boring characters.
+Mantas Pavardė Interact in Uncharted? ROFL the game is full of scripted events that take control away from the player and cutscenes. Its more of a cgi action movie than a video game. Uncharted whole entire game is filled with cringy characters walking and talking to each other while Half Life 2 barley had any of that and Half Life 1 didn't have a single moment of that because they were actually video games that valued gameplay rather than being shitty B movie action flicks being told in a crap tier third person shooter. Only causal console gamers praise these shitty "cinematic" movie games.
Thank you for using ratatat
Uncharted does it great period.
Theres one problem here. Although the lack of any real failure states does cheapen the excitement of these scripted sequences, if more of these reaction-heavy interactions that you want existed in these setpieces, then it's only natural for the game designers to expect a portion of the playerbase to fail these on the first try, since their inclusion is to be something that the player can potentially mess up. The problem with that is the only real thrill/excitement that these setpieces offer is their initial shock. replaying any of the segments in one of these scripted sequences cause of a failure would ultimately be more boring than what we have now, cause their is no room for any more shock since the player knows whats happening ahead. The problem that this causes for the game designers is, then when do they place their checkpoints? If they place them too far apart, it won't be fun because the player will just be pressing thebuttons in the exact same order the did earlier with nothing else to gain from it, but if they place them too close together, there's no stakes in failing them as you'll be put right where you were before, which means failing doesn't actually mean anything the way you want it to. That's why games like uncharted place so much emphasis on visual flair and story, because the setpieces manage to stay interesting cause of the composition, but still feel important because of the narrative driving. For example, the prison escape sequence at the start of uncharted 4 is more than just a parkour sequence because of the way it uses story and character. The sequence starts because of Rafe shooting Vargas, motivated by his reluctance to let him in on the money, midway through you're seperated from Rafe and need to catch up out of a fear of him leaving you behind (which you suspect because of his earlier murder of vargas), and this ends with you having to leave Sam behind when he gets shot because of this same fear of Rafe leaving you behind. Although a lot of scripted sequences are lacking, i dont think adding extra reflex-based challenges is a way to make them more interesting, instead designers should be opting towards using the setpiece to develop the games narrative as a way to make players care.
Yes, those are legit problems and pitfalls but it only concerns how a setpiece is as they are not what they could be. A bandage. Designers should create games to *play*.
Games are about two things; Understanding Rules and Execution of Rules. Engagement happens when a player understands what to do (the initial "aha" moment) then skills are tested to recreate what they have in mind. Failure is a teaching moment. A core part of the game. Developers make sure that if the player fails, these players would have the tools to know why and would be able to try again with a different approach thus another "aha" moment and the cycle continues until the problem is solved.
And yes, some games place emphasis on visual flair and story, because the setpieces manage to stay interesting cause of the composition, but still feel important because of the narrative driving. But if the *main focus* is *storytelling* and pacing is a concern, then why *diminish* the experience with a possibility of *player failure* ? Movies have been doing fine for years, what does pressing a button add to the experience? One could argue "player engagement" but again players are disengaged once failure happens, and as stated before failure is a core experience to games.
As suggested in the video, these set pieces could work if the focus was different. For players to understand and know how to solve a problem.
Kinda why I prefer Nintendo games. Gameplay first, story second.
FlowUrbanFlow There's nothing wrong with story first, gameplay second. It just depends on what you prefer
@@zaidabraham7310 Half Life is the best of both worlds
Well done man, these recommendations would greatly improve damn near every game with scripted sequences like these.
Boy this guy just hates a few games I'm I the only one that noticed this
6 years late but nah I noticed too, bro hates on these games cause of the set-pieces, me personally I loved them, but people gotta realize that there’s a target audience, and it’s probably not your taste, don’t mean you got to hate on it
I haven't played all the games mentioned here, but I think the set pieces in the Uncharted series especially (and some in the recent Tomb Raiders) were done very well. It seems that the purpose of the set pieces is to give an adrenaline rush with an enjoyable interactive sequence, which is what the Uncharted series does very well. I'm talking specifically about the relatively short sequences that involve escaping / climbing out of somewhere that's falling apart around you. The thing about these sequences is, if the player dies it ruins the pacing even if they succeed the 2nd time, so the devs need to strike a good balance of difficulty so that the vast majority of players will succeed on the first try and still get an adrenaline rush. I think a lot of the issues with set pieces are only noticeable on the 2nd playthrough, so for most people they aren't really issues at all.
The train of Splinter Cell: Pandora's Tomorrow is way better than the later one
1 thing I found funny was the volcano Firewalker mission escape scene.
While inside the building, I ran to the exit, realized I missed a safe, went back, hacked it and ran out.
I think you've missed the point. Set pieces are a way of progressing the narrative the same way a cut scene would - only without jarring the cohesive flow of the gameplay - rather being a part of the actual game mechanic. It's only when they're overused to the point of outweighing portions of the game dedicated to total control they become an issue. Most of the time, set pieces, like cut scenes, represent only a fraction of the overall experience.
"Rise of the planet of the tomb raiders" Coming 2018.
I'd disagree on HL2. I don't think it was merely gimmicky situational things. If it were, then mechanics wouldn't necessarily be reused later down the road. There's some simple ladder jumping and running in City 17 to prep you for the running through the canals before the boat and even later for entering Nova Prospekt. The boat utilizes a slow growth from merely moving to getting the gun, then later when you hit Highway 17 you're thrust back into that gameplay style with the buggy and a gun, picking up from where you were in the airboat with a slight downgrade in mobility and two fire modes for the gun, keeping it fresh. It's more slow burn, sure, and it can be forgiven that people would believe mechanics aren't used again and then result in being gimmicks. TO BE FAIR there are one or two that do that exact thing (such as the Antlions in Nova Prospekt being allies to the player and the supercharged Gravity Gun, which was rectified in Episode I). On the whole, though, I'd say it's unfair to call it gimmicky when really what happens is that each gameplay style has a longer gap in between uses for keeping things fresh.
It's very simple. You make a lot of videos about how modern games are fvcking up, when it's very simple: games just got too big. Too much money involved. True fans get ignored and betrayed by greed. Just what happened with music, cars, computers, concerts, etc etc etc.
My issue with "Press X to not die" Quick-Time-Events is that it seems like they're trying to raise the stakes by putting the player character in dangerous situations and scenarios without also putting the player in any danger. If you die, you just try again until you get it right, which usually isn't even that hard.
I feel like another way of getting around these is just adding a little bit of extra effort in the interactivity, for example in the part in which Drake slides down the slope and is blocked by some wooden fences they could have added a little animation of him getting hit by them without actually being hurt should the player fails to shoot at them, that way skilled players can still feel accomplished for overcoming the obstacles without ramping up the difficulty
Ketchup on chips?
Problem is most set pieces are just a glorified QTEs. Setpieces are best when you're actually playing them.
Halo 1's escape at the end = best set piece of all time.
agreed
nah uncharted 2 train set piece for me
Brozen Roxies not even close tbh
Yeah I didn't think of that, Halo 1's final "racing across the exploding spaceship" is an amazing set-piece. I think with that they managed to keep up the excitement level comparable to the crazy Uncharted sequences but for much longer, and requiring more skill (but I do love most of those in Uncharted).
Adam Mackie
Uncharted4 is real all the time, cutscenes and gameplay are the same
And i forgot to say that uncharted4 got the highest award that a game can get, while all halos till now,. Sorry...
There's a ton of examples of how to do this right among old 2D games, e.g. Contra: Hard Corps
I hated Uncharted 3 so much for it's incessant set piecing THEN ACTING LIKE THERE WOULD BE CONSEQUENCES. I'm running and climbing in a burning building with the control being yanked away from me every 30 seconds and they try and play up the "drama" of the situation as if I'm even remotely invested.
far cry 3 and 4 , not the outpost liberation part but the main missions are heavily scripted and less freedom in main mission
Of course, it's easy to go too far in the other direction. An epic setpiece gets a lot less epic if you have to replay half of it three times because you keep missing some critical jump.
Can please everybody send this youtube Video to the game makers. They should FUCKING GET IT ALREADY!!! :/ It is so boring just pressing "up" in a game.
I actually liked Splinter Cell Blacklist. It could have done without the action set pieces, but I was fine with the faster paced type of stealth. Hitman Absolution was pure shit, though.
Blacklist has it's moments. Still didn't reach 6th gen Splinter Cell levels though. Absolution is pretty shit.
No it didn't. But I still don't think it deserved the bad rap a lot of people gave it. It's definitely an improvement over Conviction.
I prefer playing role-playing games as they are probably the best depiction of what video games are capable of. I like to use Dark Souls as an example when I explain video games and how player driven and immersive they can be. Don't tell me the story, don't show me; make me EXPERIENCE! Sure, Uncharted might be good but I don't like PLAYING them. Might aswell watch a let's play; you aren't missing out on much, anyway, whereas in Dark Souls, the beauty is overcoming the high difficulty of learning the game and respecting it. The sensation you get when you do is unrivaled. The game is unforgiving and doesn't hold your hand and therein lies the true beauty of this game. The way you interprete the story based on your experience. The relieve when seeing the light at the end of the tunnel after having made that adrenalin-pumbing climb out of Blighttown. And finally, the satisfaction when you reach the end of your quest and defeat Lord Gwyn. You feel complete and yet not so much as no matter if you re-kindle the fire or walk away you know history is just gonna repeat itself over and over. The game is about death and decay and it's so much more! The game don't want you to fail or die, it wants you to succed but IT won't give you that success; you have to gain it, by overcoming seamingly impossible obstacles. It's the beauty of not holding the player's hand but letting them figure it out on their own and by that, get infinitely more rewarding. No other media has made music feel so memorable and nostalgic so fast as Dark Souls; when you hear Gwyn's theme you're instantly reminded of the entire journey you went on. Those 3 notes sum up your entire quest...plim plim plim...
EDIT: This comment might be a bit off topic but I just felt like getting it off my chest. To me, games that are so close to movies should be just that, rather than you just pressing a few buttons here and there. These games are to me are rather silly. Imstead devs should use their incredible talent for games with atmospheric and enviromental story telling and telling a story through gameplay. In Dark Souls they don' have to tell you you're a weak prick at the beginning. You can feel it right from start...until you overcome
"Uncharted" is more of a Interactive Movie than a game...
"Telltale" gets away with it since their Stories are great, but making Bland Stories with Scripted Action Moments sprinkled around isn't enough for a "Game"... that is what i call "Interactive Experiences", games that you aren't encouraged to play more than once.
...and the gameplay is so bland that they gotta do a balancing act to NOT focus too much on it... or you would notice the flawed parts.
I hate it, it make a game unreplayable for me. Since it isn't a cutscene so it can't be skip, but there's no interesting gameplay elements here either just holding W/LS forward. God of War (2018) suffered so much from this, he can use his strength only when the game tell me to press O with an obnoxious amount of cutscene and unskippable walking/talking, So it end up feeling like i'm playing a big tough guy with an axe instead of God of War
How come people don't really make tutorials on how to make set pieces when making a videogame in like unity or unreal engine
Basically in game design: anything scripted = goodbye replayability
man that was a meaty video. I will now always refer to that game as Rise Of The Planet Of The Tomb Raiders
On one hand i love watching these game designs tidbits from guys like this and Mark and Warbot etc. but on the other......the more I stop to think about it the more they sound something like "Yeah, this was almost cool, like, aaaaaalmost. You guys can do it better. Try harder next time."
Combine that with the fact they are "influencers" nowadays and most people never end up actually playing the games because the Game-Design-Guy on UA-cam said so and so about it.
You should make a video on the insulting and condescending excess of HUD elements and one-button-press """mechanics""" that plague Ubisoft's games
oh my god i hear loud pipes
and ratchet and clank music
your a fucking legend
in all honesty I don't like how naughty dog focused way to much on the story and very little creating a enjoyable gameplay formula. most of the uncharted series is scripted events , cutscenes and walking around . when you actually get to the the gameplay it's just a run of the mill 3rd person shooter with little challenge (you can just force your way through enemies) , with some boring climbing segments and child's play simple puzzles. that's why I like The last of us way better than the entire uncharted series. in the last of us it balances quality narrative/story while giving fun and engaging gameplay. the zombie sections force you to think things out and plan your moves via stealth, you actually have to think and strategize because you don't really want to deal with infected especially ones like clickers. it's a similar story with human enemies, you still have to think about whether to sneak or engage but since they are smarter and armed it adds variety. to add to all of this the perk and crafting system allows you to find time your experience based off your play style.
My biggest issue with set pieces especially like Uncharted's is that if you are not doing everything exactly the way the devs tell you too. They become boring trial and error.
It's funny how you mention how they don't well in stealth games and I do agree but I feel like the Metal Gear series is even more notorious for this. All though I probably do see why they were used in past games considering the stealth mechanics themselves aren't the most indepth.
Splinter Cell Blacklist is a pretty good game despite the set piece problems, Hitman Absolution is not.
Funnily enough, the "great success" of the Madagascar chase in Uncharted 4 was for me one of the weakest set pieces in the franchise, just because most of it was in black and white due to me being injured and I maybe died once or twice. The reason why most of these set pieces are so easy are because their goal is to entertain (not challenge) the player, and failing at them completely kills the pacing. They can only be as challenging as their rythm allows, so for long levels such as the train in Uncharted 2, it's ok if the players die a lot, because it's not a really hectic sequence, while the Madagascar chase dropped me right into an intense fire fight while driving a car surrounded by obstacles and explosions, which felt really annoying and immersion-breaking.
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Really good writing. Subscribed