The Story of Russia - Orlando Figes | Intelligence Squared
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- Опубліковано 17 тра 2024
- After the bombing of the Kerch bridge in Crimea, author and historian Orlando Figes joins Intelligence Squared to discuss the vast, complicated history of Ukraine and Russia. Drawing from his new book, "The Story of Russia", he discusses Russia's reinventions of its own culture, history and beliefs throughout the ages, as well as what President Vladimir Putin's regime means for the country itself and the rest of the world.
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Have read both “Crimea” and “A Peoples Tragedy”, highly recommended.
It was great to hear Orlando Figes!
Orlando Figes is definitely an engaging speaker.
So people usually discuss of what importance Krimea is for Russians or for Ukrainians. Shouldn't we ask of what importance it is to Crimean Tartars?
Why? The Russians came to Crimea in 9th century while the Tatars came only four centuries later.
@@alexbort3082 russian bot
@@agnag9690 and what kind of bot are you?
@@alexbort3082 human
@@agnag9690 labelling other people just because they have a different opinion doesn't make you human. On the contrary it makes you a bot.
Waiting for "The Story of Ukraine".
Terrific interview
Thank you so much for a highly interesting broadcast. Amazing in particular your reference to the role of the Church, your observations in regard to understanding of the actual ground situation, and your multicultural capacity for respect for the cultural aspects of an ancient nation, to be seen in the light of intellectual exploration. Very inspiring. Many thanks!
The Mongolian Geist (the Jungian Old Man within) is at the center of the current situation, indeed. This has been so in almost all of Russia's conquests since Moskovia, essentially a neo-Mongolian polity, came of age in the 17th century.
Russians have learned from their previous masters, the Golden Horde.
@@stevepodleski More than just learned. Russia is the new Golden Horde. Russians, by and large, are the Neo-Mongols and so are the Chinese. The majority of the so-called analysts do not grasp that the current Russia/China axis is not economic or Realpolitik, but cultural in the sense of both being memetic/genetic Mongolian bustards. More than just learned....
So true 👍
@@AndreAndFriends You have failed to point out that Poland and Russia stood in an antagonistic relationship to each other for a few centuries and this state of things is continuing. A tally has been made in a US book about which side has unleashed more wars against the other - Poland and Russia? It turns out that Poland has initiated a few more wars against Russia. Congratulations! Talk about Mongols!
@@peterivankovich2990 we did? Wow you're a real genius 👏 🙌 👌 😳
I would really really like Orlando Figes and Mark Galeotti to debate about the Russo-Ukrainian War...because while I love Orlando Figes' overall history of Russia, and his analysis is quite precise and thorough (especially about the transition from Czarist Russia to the USSR)...I don't think some of his assessments of modern Russia and Putin line up with Mark Galeotti's narrative of why Putin is the way he is...and why some things, like nukes being used, are FAR less feasible than Orlando thinks they are. And this is the struggle I often find with historians vs. political analysts: one is almost too buried into the history books to realize current events... whilst the latter might know enough history to be dangerous, but learn the wrong lessons from it, or are more blind to how history influences modern events.
We will be holding a debate in 2023 with Orlando Figes among others on how the war in Ukraine can/should end. (Both in-person and online)
@@Intelligence-Squared Great, that'll be fun to watch!!
The Merkel strategy was to treat Russia as a "normal" country through trade, sports (Olympics, World Cup) cultural exhange etc. However, it would seem that for Putin and the like-minded, "normal" sounds suspiciously like"ordinary", and they are fixated on the exceptionalist idea of Russia as an extraordinary entity.
James Tulk, Americans are fixated on their country as exceptional and necessary. Who can prohibit Russians from fixating on their country as special? By the way, Russian opposition members are big-time in the West only, and they are just a pesky fly in Russia. I once talked to a Russian lady acquaintance on the phone. I asked her how Russians viewed Alexandre Navalny (a Western darling). She racked her brains for a long time trying to identify that name. Only after my abundant prompting, she remembered hearing that name. She said, ''Ah, Yes, yes, I heard something about this troublemaker.''
@@peterivankovich2990 USA is a super power. Russia is a regional player.
@@Aan_allein And your point is???
@@Aan_alleinwhich region? Arctic, Alaska, Japan, Korea, China, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Asian Former USSR states, Caucasus, Turkey, Black Sea, Caspian Sea, Europe, Baltic countries, Scandinavia?
@@cookml Exactly. You listed Europe/Asia, everywhere Russia borders, or former Soviet borders were. Regional. There are also other continents, such as Africa, North and South Americas, Australia...
Interesting and stimulating, Thank you.
Thanks
Nice expression "my lock down book". 🌹
Interesting chat. Keep it up
very proper understading and analysis
Excellent and illuminating. Great to hear OF in person.
With all respect I do not think you can trade land for peace with Russia. I am afraid peace with Russia must be forced these days, no relying upon paper agreements.
Love his approach and depth of understanding of history
Can the interviewer please stop the constant “Hmmm”-ing? Thanks
Oh
David Starkey gave an interesting lecturer comparing Ivan the Terrible with Henry the VIII . The connection between monarch and religion was a central issue for both of them
Learned a lot about Russia history.
44:30 While I agree with Orlando Figes' observations and perspective, I am stunned by the conclusions he draws. It seems as though our guest believes Putin gets to sail into the sunset, unscathed by the utter calamities he has caused. How is the Russian Army's incapacitation and humiliation to be avoided? And after Russia's humiliation in Ukraine and the death of so many countrymen, how will Putin avoid repercussions? A big splash causes large waves, as momentous and colossal failure has its due consequences.
Putin's future is very bleak.
Read my comment above.
Are you kidding?! Russia is simply crushing Ukraine. Putin is enormously popular in Russia.
@@syourke3 There are those of us in America and other nations who know how corrupt Ukraine was and still is. We are not fooled like the Liberals are. Putin is not a Saint, no. He has done evil but what leader is perfect?
Your sickening mindset of thinking you own the world is do funny! Russia’s army is being humiliated 😮😂😂😂😂😂 you are a joke! Keep lying to yourselves and keep telling lies to yourselves! Keep tickling yourselves in the sides and be laughing! You touched the wrong enemy! Psychos of a west! Trouble makers! Warmongers! Thieves! The world is not for you! Leave Russia alone! For they will never allow you and your corrupt sick governments to control them and their resources for the cheap life you enjoy in the west! Forget about it!
Liars
Thé key point to this story was missed entirely in history. Like the entire Greek civilization of the Roman-Byzantium capital , the fact that Ukraine was claimed first by the Royal Roman Byzantine culture. Russia was not able to set up Ukraine and still is unable to d9 so.
That was his point. You can change history by going back in history and assuming that history is what your brain makes out the history to be. You need to focus on his words not on your words in your head
"How can you have small states without resources..." Well, actually the way we already have them all around the world.
I always find it interesting to see how many people can twist history to suit their own ideas. I hadn't realized just how long the Mongols had been in power in these regions, it explains why the Tsars, political leaders are so powerful. They have become "sainted" or directly, somehow, as emissaries of "god".
The people have learned to believe in the "sacred" guidance to The person at the top, such as Katherine The Great and Stalin, now Putin all can grant or remove benefits.
There hasn't been any leader of any country that has ever been infallible, but Russian people get very close to seeing those heads of state as infallible.
I saw/heard two people who have both known and studied Putin, and both state emphatically Putin will NEVER abide by treaties, international laws, human rights, or any agreements unless he gets all he wants.
This interview provides a clear explanation. We have already seen proofs that Putin won't stop until he gets everything he wants. Afghanistan is the exception.
🤣
@@oliverablagojevic8181 Hypocrisy at its finest. You seem to have forgotten the ethnic cleansing in Kosovo (and in other place before that - obviously Serbia would continue until some other countries intervened). By no means was it only an internal affair, lots of refugees. Plus it was not full-scale invasion, just aerial attacks until Serbia agreed to stop the bloodshed and withdraw from Kosovo. Then it was run by the UN. Nothing was annexed.
How complicated is it to consider the population ethnicity? (Hint some 90% ethnic russians). Putin has not said Ukraine is not a nation, the opposite in the 2021 essay
This interview helps me understand that Crimea is Russia's strategic link to Europe. There was a time when Russia's inclusion in Europe was desirable. Is it still? Is there not an argument for ensuring Russia loses Crimea so that its divorce from Europe can be formalized? Make no mistake that Putin has filed for divorce. Choosing to quit Europe has a price for Russia. Perhaps losing Crimea is that price.
What planet are you people on? Hell will freeze over before Crimea is lost to Russia. This pillock dribbling in the interview is a paid stooge of the New Russia Foundation and likely MI6.
Russia will most likely "grow into" broader Europe and become a "normal country". But V.P. has made a series of quite ill considered moves slowing that process and delaying that outcome.
@David Liu
If the Russian Federation is an 'adversary' that's because the collective west have made it so.
Actually in the soviet revolution there were elections and Lenin and his party lost, and they were not even became 2nd I think. So there was a great possibility they became a social liberal or a much softer socialist governent, but instead of that Lenin grabbed power and started to kill russians in the 10 thousands.
😂
How did things go with your girlfriend? Did Norman's intervention help? Do you think this played out in a Hegelian deterministic mode or was Norman able to change the way events played out? Is that then the playing out of the Great man theory of History?
Subpar effort. Try harder, fail louder.
Why should he expose.
Rus and Russia are two different states. Modern Russia begings its existence in the 18th century, having grown out out of the center in Moskowy and the state of Golden Horde.
Lol. Kiev was founded by Russians and was in fact their capital before Moscow.
@@blazer4999 Russians are all, in fact, disturbed cowards bent on ruining lives. They offer nothing. Vermin.
Tell me again, when exactly was this blitz on Kyiv? I must have missed that. Was Kyiv raised to the grown? I can't seem to find any news reports of a blitz on Kyiv at the outset of the invasion.
Because before this War 2 main powerful castles of Islam, Turkey and Saudi Arabia were destroyed and since Pakistan was the last castle of Islam, then it was very essential to defend Pakistan in order to save Islam. #MuhammadQasimDreams
Russia, the heir to the Byzantine, East Roman Empire? Yes, a very accurate perspective and one that western humanity is at last, beginning to understand? I must go and read your books, Orlando!
Agreed.
It was the Kievan Rus that accepted Christianity trough the Byzantine church and Russia, much much later, appropriated that heritage through theft.
@@stevepodleski Hmm, that is a skewed answer, would you be kind enough to let me correct you? Alexander Nevsky, of Novgorod in the north, wisely accepted Mongol overlordship by accepting Mongol rule as he did not have the human or material resources to defeat the Mongol Golden Horde. By accepting Mongol rulership he gave his people freedom of religious faith as the Mongols were tolerant of the many faiths and religions within their empire. The wealthy Novgorod Rus kept their Orthodox Christianity and, importantly, this gave them "protection status" against armed Crusader Catholic incursions from Lithuania/Latvia. In 1245 A.D. the Mongol Khan even bestowed the title 'Grand Prince of Kiev' on Nevsky. Later, evolving Rus cities and states carried Nevsky's heritage forward to the foundation of Russia and the rise of the Muscovy state and its capital, Moscow.
The “mm” of the inrerviewer in the beginnig made me drop off
Stop saying mmmmmmm every ten seconds
Hmmmmm hmmm hmmm
hmmm.
Crazy making!!
Another expert on Russia, ruminating using loaded statements and value judgements; interpreting Russian history and beliefs through a western mindset. This is precisely why we experience recurring intelligence failures, caused by mirror imaging.
the way interviewer is mumbling "M-HM..." all the time is terrible! if he was recorded on a different track LOWER THAT LEVEL FFS! if not, teach him to keep quiet, when the interviewee is speaking.
Ukraine was the first state and Russia derived from the eastward expansion of Kievan Rus. So linguistically modern Ukrainian is the standard language and Russian is a dialect, even though politically the spin off state of Imperial Russia colonised Ukraine?
😂🤡
Yeah yeah, and the 'Ukrainians' also trace their nation and language back to ancient Egypt. Man, you people are fking deluded.
Uhhh novgorod?
This is a very enlightening interview, it confirmed my thoughts about Russia, it can never be a modern liberal state it is too backward and primitive.
So what is to be done with it? I believe the best outcome is that it either disintegrates into a patchwork of independent states, some no doubt will fall under Chinese influence and others in the West under European influence, and of course the old Soviet nuclear arsenal must be decommissioned, however I fear Mr Figes may be correct, after defeat and the downfall of Putin it might disintegrate for a while but assembling again like some blob creature as it has always done in history and worse may follow.
"never be a modern liberal state it is too backward and primitive" ohh, my little racist))
There is a little trick to become "a modern liberal state" - to enslave, rob and rape the weak in order to gain wealth
Extremely anti Russian statement
@@felipe-vibor Thank you, it was intended to be.
@@SirAntoniousBlock ok. Nothing to debate with a fixed, biased mind.
Puto lobbing a tactical nuke into Ukraine doesn't a nuclear war make. The U.S. & NATO have contrived a response. One that Puto won't like but should go a long way into achieving Ukrainian and Western goals.
A nuclear war in so far as Russia used a tactical nuke, but the NATO response to a tactical nuke would be severe but limited to conventional weapons.
@@davidhowse884 I just read on YT somewhere that Puto has been notified that he will become definitely personally dead if he pulls off some nuclear stunt. Apparently the agencies that specialize in this sort of thing keep constant tabs on his whereabouts and communications. If he knows that he'll be signing his death warrant by throwing a nuke, it ought to give him pause. I think you're right . . . there's no reason to respond by using nukes ourselves. Puto seems like a clever but basically stupid, greedy and very self-centered culero so knowing his life is over if he throws a nuke seems like a good strategy.
@@mikestirewalt5193
I haven't read of the personal assassination threat, although I know Putin is paranoid about someone attempting it.
I know that Biden issued a warning that if Putin crossed the line into using a tactical nuke USA would respond severely, but not meaning in nuclear, the conventional forces are plenty enough.
History is used for persuasion this is about SECURITY!
That's it,period!
............................................AM
hmm!
Someone asks me, how many people will die in these wars? Then I respond back from the perspective of Ghazwa tul Hind and the World War, that, “almost 1 billion people will die in this war. #MuhammadQasimDreams
You are talking rubbish
Who?
Cool channel, just wondering, how will eurasia deal with climate change, will the people of south eurasia move north to escape the heat? Why are old slavs so racist and anti semitic?
Not a Word about the shelling of Donbass with 10.000 civilians dead, by the Ukrainian army??
Since 2014 to this day!
Unbelievable, right? Appears that russian fakes exist only in russia. A true miracle, lol. But you tried hard, I must admit.
Three confirmed (by international organizations) civilian deaths. Three. Shall we count the dead in Russia's bombing in Chechnya? Georgia?
Indeed, as officially recorded by the UN.
The Russian instigated and propagated conflict? Mysteriously, such conflicts were also fostered in Moldova and Georgia.
Putin's men should go home.
This number includes Ukrianian military that died in combat.
It’s all about the West and what they decree.
Interview Prof John Meirsheimer
Meirsheimer turned out to be a moron, bought and paid for
It's all about legacy for Putin.
NATO is a red herring
Historian should be impartial . This guy is certainly partial .
How is he partial?
@@andrewwatson6913 He starts with an absurd claim that "invasion" started in 2014 and continues with more blatant russophobic propaganda. He is not a historian, he is a charlatan.
@@alexsilent5603 But the invasion did start in 2014. That is an objective fact. Russia occupied and annexed a sovereign territory of an independent country whose borders Russia had formally recognised in the 1990s. You may think that Crimea should be Russian in the same way that Kaliningrad should be German. But if the Germans entered Kaliningrad it would be an invasion of an independent country, just like the Russian invasion of Crimea. These are facts and a historian who didn't recognise them would be a charlatan.
If you teach Russian history for 35 years it's inevitable. But I fully agree
@@andrewwatson6913 There is no such thing as "Russian invasion". It was the Ukrainian civil war that started in 2014. Russia didn't occupy or annex anything, it were the people who voted on democratic referendums to join Russia.
It is good that you mentioned Germany, because this is a great example of illegal annexation. West Germany illegally annexed East Germany without any referendums.
These are the facts any historian can't deny.
Knowledge without understanding is of little value. This 'historian' has a headful of convoluted porridg. He pontificates about 'Russia' when should be talking about a miority slav populated border region of Rus called Muscovia renamed Rossiya after 1721. Muscovy has a horrific history of savagery against its neighbours and those unfortunate e ough to be subject, whether they like it or not, to its rule. They have truly earned the descriptor 'Katsap' (butchers) by neighbouring peoples.
Doesnt Katsap come from goats and not butcher?
@@happyhappynuts If a Ukrainian speaker was referring to a goat he would say .як цап not ка(к)цап. Common descriptor for Muscovite by all groups who have had the pleasure of experiencing Muscovite company (butchers/slaughterers). Turkic word.
Nonsense.
It's the west
A lot of idiocy and delusion in this dialogue. Very disturbing. He needs to deal with Putin in his shadow, just as many in the US need to deal with Trump in their shadows.
Russian fanboyy and putin sychphant . Puzzled why they had this guy on.
His books are nothing but praise and appeasement for the atrocities russia committed over the years.
For sure he's in the kremlin payroll.
How is Putin & Trump same?
The current situation is an outcome of a lack of respect for the Russian nation on the part of the U.S. and the EU. The ethnic Russians living in the Baltic States and in Ukraine needed proper protection as ethnic and linguistic minorities and recognition as part of the broader Russian nation. Instead, ever since the early 1990s, they have been treated as second-class citizens or even - in Ukraine's case in the last two decades - as an 'enemy element', a kind of fifth column. The EU should never have signed an Association Agreement with Ukraine until this issue had been resolved. But the men in Brussels went ahead regardless. Meanwhile the U.S. was positively encouraging the Kyiv authorities to throw aside minority rights and implement a kind of U.S.-inspired "melting pot" policy in Ukraine, with everyone being required to subscribe to Ukrainian language use and to a very "Ukrainian" version of history (in particular regarding World War II history). Riding roughshod over the interests, attitudes and beliefs of millions of your own citizens was bound to end in tears for the Ukrainian government. Nowhere in the world can one govern "against" such a large minority - without eliciting a reaction from the people themselves and/or from a 'kin' state. This is not to defend Russia's actions since February of this year, but as in any field of human activity we need to get to grips with cause and effect.
What a ‘b…..it’, with all the respect but your point of the enemy element in Ukraine - it’s such an exaggerated narrative which has nothing to do with Ukrainian every day reality. Have you been to Ukraine or Latvia (the biggest Russian ethnic group in the Baltics) in the recent 2-5 year to see any of these processes?
Idiot.
@@peterdollins3610 Peter, you can do better than that.
You are not allowed to hold opinions like that, otherwise you will censored by social and mainstream media. big Brother is watching you.
@@alyonagumeniuk1350 just ignore him. He is a useful idiot.
it is a shame to hear good and right points mixed with a McDonalds style "history" from a professional. I couldn't continue to listen to it after quote" Ukraine was brought BACK to russia in 17th century"... Back??? really? to where it never had been before? /// as a result, a weird mix of things and a lot of misunderstanding of the reasons for the Ukrainians to fight for the country. Because putin said? a shame.