It’s hard to pretend that the game is balanced at all when Aeldari have the craziest and expansive army rules in the game and AdMech are just “Do some mortal wounds to units in the deployment zone I guess. At least give them the option of doing Rad Bombardments into No Man’s land instead. That and they just straight up forgot that Grey Knights can have heavy melee weapons
Blood angels need something in their army rule that helps them get into melee, and they need their units good enough that people are actually playing bloodangels and not just using the librarian dread in a generic space marine list.
"There's people who thought *yep, I'm definitely gonna take AdMech and see how far I can get*" 10:20 Stu has used AdMech as an example of a faction that's... Challenging to get any results with (to stay polite) in every 10th ed metawatch so far and now we're getting a detachment whose single rule is to give the army-wide (in name only) rule to one model of the faction Talk about sending mixed signals
I get that a Cybernetica Cohort WOULD make a cool detachment, like the Necrons and their destroyer themed detachment. …but AdMech don’t have enough cybernetica units to do it. They have 1. 1 unit. They should’ve saved it for next edition (assuming they give them more robots next edition).
@@reginlief1we wont. The guy who was in charge of that died. And no one else plays admech in the design studio. Im pretty sure admech are done getting good models or interesting rules for at least a few more additions.
I know there are a few leaders that logically should lead more units than they can, but out of curiosity, what would you change otherwise to make them stronger? I don't think letting certain hqs lead more units would change too much/enough.
@@rike889SanPriest+SanGuard or any jump squad except DC, Meph+Bladeguard, Tycho+Devastators or Comp Heroes or Sternguard, Corbulo+AssIntercesors or BG or Comp Heroes. Drop Dante and Sanguinor points. Seth same as Corbulo. Drop points for SangGuard and SangPriest.
I dont understand the reluctance to hit eldar with an adequate nerf, that being said chaos are too strong, in particular the lord and chosen combination probably needs a bit of an increase, and its fair to say the nurgle strat on vehicles is slightly too good.
Please don't nerf marines into the ground because John did well with them :( the army in general in the hands of us mere mortals is actually pretty mid.
As a new player joining in 10th edition who chose custodes with a friend who chose to play CSM I've not won a single game, we both suck obviously, but my army just can't seem to compete with the amount of high toughess, high strength armoured units he can put on the board. My units are whittled down before they can reach melee and then even if they knock out a few they tend to fail to recover. This happens even when I deploy as tactically as I can and make good use of cover. I don't feel particularly 'elite', not that I care too much about that, I'm just starting to feel sad about getting tabled every game by turn 3/4, sometimes sooner. I don't even think he's enjoying it anymore.
How about instead of changing the dreadknight, give the dreadnought teleport assault, you get all the heavy weapons on them, and you can actually destroy vehicles, you expect me to believe that a dreadknight can be teleported and not a dreadnought, but hammers are a definite yes, how can the grey knights be the hammer without having hammer rules
When you say Space Wolves (or any of the other Non-Codex compliant chapters) are at 49% win rate, you mean with whatever detachment they want, correct? Not with their specific detachment? I'd really like to see them broken out that way, because I think it would become very apparent that the Non-Codex detachments are significantly worse than the ones in the Codex. Right now we can't tell and I think it's masking how bad those detachments are, especially in the Space Wolves case.
Those percent really needs to be taken only on a subset of experienced players. Your own world championship showed you a breakdown of faction that needed to be nerfed or buffed. You should use that instead of this chart :).
How new players and mid-level players pilot armies matters to balance, too. They should be able to break out individual segments of data but balancing around just the top end is a mistake.
Please don't be afraid to buff Drukhari, just because it would indirectly buff the Aeldari Yvraine list. Drukhari have no synergy what so ever. And the power from pain is a big joke. Come on GW, get your act together.
They need a buff to their close combat rules because at the Moment they suck. The old chart was Amazing. Lets say Round1: advance + charge Round2: +1 to hit Round3: one more Token for any killed enemy Round4: +1 to their Morale and -1 to the enemy morale This rule does not exist for ynnari detachment
the change to big knights has been a debacle from start to finish. Anything towering getting punished by Eldar and fate dice: Chaos Knights only play with 3 models out of 12 , and that's only because you have to take a stalker for the character key word
BLOOD ANGELS! We have horrid win percentages on our detachments and our characters and most units are overcosted (besides they have not been afqed and can't join most units...these have been months)
Eldar really still need a other nerf. In my opinion, they are still too strong. Also, Blood Angels (if you take their bespoke detachment) are downright near unplayable, not only do they need an FAQ to have a bunch of their characters fixed, melee is terrible in the game due to the change to overwatch. For a game that wanted more "balance" someone obviously hates codex divergent chapters and loves Eldar. Eldar units can do too many things, especially Dire Avengers being able to use the Second overwatch in a turn. That makes trying to counter position aganat them impossible. Especially if they have Asurmen. I am not asking you to decapitate the faction, but if you nerf a faction 3 times, and it is still Meta Dominating, maybe you need to keep nerfing it.
You killed the custodes when you made the Dev Wounds be something else than mortals, making their detachment irrelevant in 10th with the meta skewed towards Dev Wounds. For the love of the Emperor, either roll it back or add something about Dev Wounds to Aegis.
I feel like a terminator hq, should be able to join a proteus kill team in deathwatch, otherwise I’d rather not use kill teams if the base unit is stronger and more flexible
Eldar still need a look at. What you sure realize is that eldar are very popular to thier win rate is somewhat cannabilized because a good chunk of eldar vs eldar games. For almost everyone else win or lose, playing eldar is a miserable experience.
I disagree. I have given my Aeldari to many in my local group to play. They lose the games, yet I win with their loser armies on the army swap day. That is odd, is it the player or the army?
@@ThatGuyDoingStuffz Aeldari are in a place that skill is more important than just the choice of the army. However it is still an unfun army to play against. Only found this out when I played against it with my own Aeldari army. You don't realize how demoralizing it is until you face it yourself and notice that you are more reliant on your opponent making errors than you playing well, as the amount of uncountarable rules are excessive.
@@ThatGuyDoingStuffzdepends on the list. Most units are bad but a few are absolutely OP. Especially all which have d6 weapons and davisting wounds which is a too strong Mechanic in this edition
I keep hearing lots of people saying mechanically AoS is a more fun game to play compared to W40K, I'm not a fan of the AoS aesthetic and prefer the W40K universe so won't be changing. Whats the main reason people are saying this?
Aeldari still need a major smack with the nerf stick. Fate dice mean they are effectively playing a different game to the rest of us. It needs a solid fix. Also, Deathwatch need to be addressed. They should have had a update by now.
I’m desperately hoping for Custodes to get our FNP rule to help against Devastating wounds. It really felt like an oversight that Devastating wounds now destroys us so easily, and it’s especially brutal since Aeldari have so many of them and they are the best army in the game already, so the matchup is super painful.
May I humbly suggest that your rules team, @officialwarhammer, maybe _finally_ gets around to fixing all the Leader units they broke in Index Blood Angels when they released the new Codex Space Marines and removed & added units without changing the existing Leaders that reference now-extinct units? 😁
Insisus- don’t like this medical grunt, for me right now I don’t need a healer, only moves around slowly and has to be close range, maybe it will change later.
Eldar needs a lot of internal balancing too,! Transports and melee are worthless when compared to how good and reliable high damage shooting is. Some very cool, updated models are simply useless like shining spears.
Ork walkers are garbage right now, I ran a 2k game yesterday, and it only lasted 2 hours. I ran 3 mek boyz 3 deff dreads Gorkanaut Morkanaut Mek gun (bubblechukka) And a stompa The gorkanaut got killed by the shooting of 2 redempter dreadnoughts with oath of moment. The Morkanaut got killed by 2 guns from a repulser being a lascannon and a macro plasma incerater first turn. 2nd turn, nothing much happened except for the stompa taking 15 wounds from one predator, and my mek warlord got tabled. And third round, all my deff dreads got destroyed by either plasma pistols for one and a redempter dread with a gatling cannon in shooting. Then, my stompa died to the repulser. and he proceeded to tank shock my mek boy. So, yeah, I got tabled 3rd round because I ran an ork walker list, and I only did 450 points of damage.
Please give Aeldari the Custodes treatment, nerf them hard, because anything less will be a light slap on the wrist and they'll continue to be at a 60% WR. They do everything better than everyone else and are singularily unfun to play against. Nightspinners, Phantasm, Support Weapons and The Yncarne need to be yeeted into the sun. On the other end of the spectrum, Imperial Knights need their Bondsmen ability back, and Custodes need some serious help. I really hope the new game design hires will help, the game needs some work, and this communication is sorely lacking.
Winrates changed probably, but can we talk about Votann, loosing all theirs uniqueness, having completely irrelevant standard units, a grudge system which nobody needs, useless grudge tokens, and in the end, if grudge full playout u are still where u would be without it before the nerf occurred? That army is roasted. really sad.
Fix Tyranids. Battleshock is a random joke and dying efficiently isn't fun. Most of our units getting nerfed hard between editions isn't fun. Especially anti tank. Almost all of our monsters at str 9 isn't fun. Our hive tyrants have become tryrants. Space Marines are getting army codexes, we want our hive fleets back. Where did our options for + charge or +str on charge go? Almost all of our fast moving synapse options have been removed too. 9th codex was 10/10. This is barely a 4.
It’s hard to pretend that the game is balanced at all when Aeldari have the craziest and expansive army rules in the game and AdMech are just “Do some mortal wounds to units in the deployment zone I guess. At least give them the option of doing Rad Bombardments into No Man’s land instead. That and they just straight up forgot that Grey Knights can have heavy melee weapons
Blood angels need something in their army rule that helps them get into melee, and they need their units good enough that people are actually playing bloodangels and not just using the librarian dread in a generic space marine list.
"There's people who thought *yep, I'm definitely gonna take AdMech and see how far I can get*" 10:20
Stu has used AdMech as an example of a faction that's... Challenging to get any results with (to stay polite) in every 10th ed metawatch so far and now we're getting a detachment whose single rule is to give the army-wide (in name only) rule to one model of the faction
Talk about sending mixed signals
I get that a Cybernetica Cohort WOULD make a cool detachment, like the Necrons and their destroyer themed detachment.
…but AdMech don’t have enough cybernetica units to do it. They have 1. 1 unit.
They should’ve saved it for next edition (assuming they give them more robots next edition).
@@reginlief1we wont. The guy who was in charge of that died. And no one else plays admech in the design studio. Im pretty sure admech are done getting good models or interesting rules for at least a few more additions.
The Metawatch Playlist is sorted ‘oldest to newest’. Probably be better to set it to ‘newest to oldest’.
Internal balance is key! Thank you for addressing it.
BA are struggle even with the new marine dex, they could do with a review plus FAQ with their unit/leader interactions please.
I know there are a few leaders that logically should lead more units than they can, but out of curiosity, what would you change otherwise to make them stronger? I don't think letting certain hqs lead more units would change too much/enough.
I think changing death company requiring a chaplain for OC would help a lot. Having to pay a 75pt tax for OC hurts.
All the Non-Codex chapters need a bit of an update.
@@rike889SanPriest+SanGuard or any jump squad except DC, Meph+Bladeguard, Tycho+Devastators or Comp Heroes or Sternguard, Corbulo+AssIntercesors or BG or Comp Heroes. Drop Dante and Sanguinor points. Seth same as Corbulo. Drop points for SangGuard and SangPriest.
Buff drukhari
I dont understand the reluctance to hit eldar with an adequate nerf, that being said chaos are too strong, in particular the lord and chosen combination probably needs a bit of an increase, and its fair to say the nurgle strat on vehicles is slightly too good.
(Redacted) I realize I went too far on my comment assumptions.
Eldar got a soft bat and then they murdered IK.
Please fix Drukhari 😢
Please Fix Drukhari & Blood angels!
I always think it is just so awesome that Lion L Johnson himself comes to break down the meta for us.
Truly a blessing.
BA at 47% ... use their detachment to show the real value and not inflated with Ironstorm DC + Vehicles
Please don't nerf marines into the ground because John did well with them :( the army in general in the hands of us mere mortals is actually pretty mid.
How else will Eldar stay on top?
They applied the same logic with Jack Hapster and BA SangGuard, not the first time...
You could nerf the apoth biologist and fire discipline a few points
As a new player joining in 10th edition who chose custodes with a friend who chose to play CSM I've not won a single game, we both suck obviously, but my army just can't seem to compete with the amount of high toughess, high strength armoured units he can put on the board. My units are whittled down before they can reach melee and then even if they knock out a few they tend to fail to recover. This happens even when I deploy as tactically as I can and make good use of cover. I don't feel particularly 'elite', not that I care too much about that, I'm just starting to feel sad about getting tabled every game by turn 3/4, sometimes sooner. I don't even think he's enjoying it anymore.
Please, Grey Knights need their hammers back and better stats for Nemesis Dreadknights.
How about instead of changing the dreadknight, give the dreadnought teleport assault, you get all the heavy weapons on them, and you can actually destroy vehicles, you expect me to believe that a dreadknight can be teleported and not a dreadnought, but hammers are a definite yes, how can the grey knights be the hammer without having hammer rules
When you say Space Wolves (or any of the other Non-Codex compliant chapters) are at 49% win rate, you mean with whatever detachment they want, correct? Not with their specific detachment? I'd really like to see them broken out that way, because I think it would become very apparent that the Non-Codex detachments are significantly worse than the ones in the Codex. Right now we can't tell and I think it's masking how bad those detachments are, especially in the Space Wolves case.
Righteous Crusaders is pretty good. Vehicle one is probably better tho.
8:45 Eldar night spinnners anyone?
Bring back knights bondsman abilities and original oath of moment!!!
Yep guys, fine job with the first two codexes. Not too bad, not too good. Goldilocks approves!
buff Wyches, please 😢
No
Make Custodes great again 🙏
yessss
no, they are boring and should be scrapped from the game.
Golden muscle bois were never good :D
It would be very cool for them to be special in that they could handle shrugging a dev wound.
@@lewisbenzie845they can literally decimate loads of traitor legion space marines and daemons.. wdym?
Sanguinary guard are gathering dust. No invulnerable save is making them useless. Overall good job on balance. But some units still need TLC.
Why would you stream the worlds in Twich and not on warhammer +
Eldar are still miserable to play against, and the game is still too lethal
Otherwise the game is much better than launch though
Those percent really needs to be taken only on a subset of experienced players. Your own world championship showed you a breakdown of faction that needed to be nerfed or buffed. You should use that instead of this chart :).
How new players and mid-level players pilot armies matters to balance, too. They should be able to break out individual segments of data but balancing around just the top end is a mistake.
Please give back Imperial Knights their fun Bondsman ability. This nerfed 9th edition version really sucks.
Here to see if SkaredCast has managed to pump Drukhari up by himself yet haha
I really appreciate these talks!
Please don't be afraid to buff Drukhari, just because it would indirectly buff the Aeldari Yvraine list.
Drukhari have no synergy what so ever. And the power from pain is a big joke. Come on GW, get your act together.
They need a buff to their close combat rules because at the Moment they suck. The old chart was Amazing. Lets say
Round1: advance + charge
Round2: +1 to hit
Round3: one more Token for any killed enemy
Round4: +1 to their Morale and -1 to the enemy morale
This rule does not exist for ynnari detachment
You guys have done yeoman work in getting the 40k balance back where it needs to be. Well done.
the change to big knights has been a debacle from start to finish. Anything towering getting punished by Eldar and fate dice: Chaos Knights only play with 3 models out of 12 , and that's only because you have to take a stalker for the character key word
BLOOD ANGELS! We have horrid win percentages on our detachments and our characters and most units are overcosted (besides they have not been afqed and can't join most units...these have been months)
Also with blood angels you have to throw them right at the enemy, so if overcosted they really hurt themselves
Eldar really still need a other nerf. In my opinion, they are still too strong. Also, Blood Angels (if you take their bespoke detachment) are downright near unplayable, not only do they need an FAQ to have a bunch of their characters fixed, melee is terrible in the game due to the change to overwatch. For a game that wanted more "balance" someone obviously hates codex divergent chapters and loves Eldar. Eldar units can do too many things, especially Dire Avengers being able to use the Second overwatch in a turn. That makes trying to counter position aganat them impossible. Especially if they have Asurmen. I am not asking you to decapitate the faction, but if you nerf a faction 3 times, and it is still Meta Dominating, maybe you need to keep nerfing it.
If you think BA is unplayable, try Space Wolves :P But I agree, non-compliant chapters detachement are sad
@@jparadis27 space wolves are sitting in a really good spot right now I sont know what you're talking about
You killed the custodes when you made the Dev Wounds be something else than mortals, making their detachment irrelevant in 10th with the meta skewed towards Dev Wounds. For the love of the Emperor, either roll it back or add something about Dev Wounds to Aegis.
No, play a more interesting army instead.
I feel like a terminator hq, should be able to join a proteus kill team in deathwatch, otherwise I’d rather not use kill teams if the base unit is stronger and more flexible
Perhaps if Sisters got Celestians with guns back then they could reach that 50%...
Eldar still need a look at. What you sure realize is that eldar are very popular to thier win rate is somewhat cannabilized because a good chunk of eldar vs eldar games. For almost everyone else win or lose, playing eldar is a miserable experience.
I disagree. I have given my Aeldari to many in my local group to play. They lose the games, yet I win with their loser armies on the army swap day. That is odd, is it the player or the army?
@@ThatGuyDoingStuffz Aeldari are in a place that skill is more important than just the choice of the army. However it is still an unfun army to play against. Only found this out when I played against it with my own Aeldari army. You don't realize how demoralizing it is until you face it yourself and notice that you are more reliant on your opponent making errors than you playing well, as the amount of uncountarable rules are excessive.
@@ThatGuyDoingStuffzdepends on the list. Most units are bad but a few are absolutely OP. Especially all which have d6 weapons and davisting wounds which is a too strong Mechanic in this edition
I keep hearing lots of people saying mechanically AoS is a more fun game to play compared to W40K, I'm not a fan of the AoS aesthetic and prefer the W40K universe so won't be changing. Whats the main reason people are saying this?
Make custodes great again
Aeldari still need a major smack with the nerf stick. Fate dice mean they are effectively playing a different game to the rest of us. It needs a solid fix.
Also, Deathwatch need to be addressed. They should have had a update by now.
I’m desperately hoping for Custodes to get our FNP rule to help against Devastating wounds.
It really felt like an oversight that Devastating wounds now destroys us so easily, and it’s especially brutal since Aeldari have so many of them and they are the best army in the game already, so the matchup is super painful.
May I humbly suggest that your rules team, @officialwarhammer, maybe _finally_ gets around to fixing all the Leader units they broke in Index Blood Angels when they released the new Codex Space Marines and removed & added units without changing the existing Leaders that reference now-extinct units? 😁
I think 10th has been out 5 months…
And once again, the Grey Knights aren't even mentioned...
Insisus- don’t like this medical grunt, for me right now I don’t need a healer, only moves around slowly and has to be close range, maybe it will change later.
Eldar needs a lot of internal balancing too,! Transports and melee are worthless when compared to how good and reliable high damage shooting is. Some very cool, updated models are simply useless like shining spears.
In a game that relies on randomness, giving one faction the ability to negate randomness is really bad design.
It’s actually good design, just ovetuned
Buff the heldrake
Great interview
Ork walkers are garbage right now, I ran a 2k game yesterday, and it only lasted 2 hours.
I ran 3 mek boyz
3 deff dreads
Gorkanaut
Morkanaut
Mek gun (bubblechukka)
And a stompa
The gorkanaut got killed by the shooting of 2 redempter dreadnoughts with oath of moment. The Morkanaut got killed by 2 guns from a repulser being a lascannon and a macro plasma incerater first turn.
2nd turn, nothing much happened except for the stompa taking 15 wounds from one predator, and my mek warlord got tabled.
And third round, all my deff dreads got destroyed by either plasma pistols for one and a redempter dread with a gatling cannon in shooting. Then, my stompa died to the repulser. and he proceeded to tank shock my mek boy.
So, yeah, I got tabled 3rd round because I ran an ork walker list, and I only did 450 points of damage.
Please give Aeldari the Custodes treatment, nerf them hard, because anything less will be a light slap on the wrist and they'll continue to be at a 60% WR. They do everything better than everyone else and are singularily unfun to play against. Nightspinners, Phantasm, Support Weapons and The Yncarne need to be yeeted into the sun.
On the other end of the spectrum, Imperial Knights need their Bondsmen ability back, and Custodes need some serious help.
I really hope the new game design hires will help, the game needs some work, and this communication is sorely lacking.
These numbers don’t indicate much. GW doesn’t exclude mirror match. Eldar are significantly better than the 57% rate would indicate.
Wouldn’t excluding mirror matches increase faction win % for factions above 50%?
@@bolaber No. Including mirror match pulls the number towards 50%. So if above 50%, it brings the number down.
You guys gotta fix Drukhari
Give Aquilon Terminator power talons twin Linked!!!!!!!!!!
Balance dataslate should adress blast and overwatch rules!! They need fixing to make the game enjoyable for both sides!!
Probably a good change could be to allow overwatch in the movement phase only at the end of the movement of a unit.
Bring back conscripts!!!! I beg you!
thanks
So bleak seeing everything regarding these systems cater to competitive play
Yay its nick
gw what happened the inquisition killteam models? anyway we need more plastic!
Make Incubi great again .
Day 35 of asking for primaris Tyberos
Alderi need a NERF still, give custodes and drukari something!
Winrates changed probably, but can we talk about Votann, loosing all theirs uniqueness, having completely irrelevant standard units, a grudge system which nobody needs, useless grudge tokens, and in the end, if grudge full playout u are still where u would be without it before the nerf occurred? That army is roasted. really sad.
Huge strides in balance since launch. Well done.
Can you buff csm again please 😂
Chainsaw man?
@@Stroivan yes degi will be the one to take care of the aldari
Fix Tyranids. Battleshock is a random joke and dying efficiently isn't fun. Most of our units getting nerfed hard between editions isn't fun. Especially anti tank. Almost all of our monsters at str 9 isn't fun. Our hive tyrants have become tryrants. Space Marines are getting army codexes, we want our hive fleets back. Where did our options for + charge or +str on charge go? Almost all of our fast moving synapse options have been removed too. 9th codex was 10/10. This is barely a 4.
I miss 3rd edition
If tau had access to Anti outside of Tigershark would be nice…Hammerhead having anti vehicle 4+ & dev would be perfect.