Salman Rushdie: Violent Mutations of Islam Are Still Islam | Big Think
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It is one thing not to discriminate against people, says Salman Rushdie, i.e. peaceful practitioners of Islam, but to foreclose an open debate over the merits of religion is a mistake.
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SALMAN RUSHDIE:
Salman Rushdie is a British-Indian novelist and writer, author of ten novels including Midnight’s Children (Booker Prize, 1981), Two Years Eight Months and Twenty-Eight Nights, and The Golden House. The publication of his fourth novel "The Satanic Verses" in 1988 led to violent protests in the Muslim world for its depiction of the prophet Mohammad. The Supreme Leader of Iran, Ayatollah Khomeini, issued a death fatwa against Rushdie, which sent him into hiding for nearly a decade. Rushdie weathered countless death threats and many assassination attempts.
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TRANSCRIPT:
Salman Rushdie: I think there’s something very worried happening as it were on the left, you know. It used to be that it was the conservatives both in America and Europe who used to criticize people for criticizing religion, you know, that used to be a right wing politic. Now it’s become a left wing politic that somehow - and I think the argument goes that mostly groups in America and Western Europe are often economically disadvantaged and suffer from various kinds of prejudice and racism and have difficult lives and therefore to criticize the religion is to further attack them and that shouldn’t be done. And I mean that’s as best as I can put that argument and I think that was the argument in that Affleck issue. And I think it was the argument in the division within PEN American Center about honoring Charlie Hebdo and it crops up over and over again. I mean it happened just to a certain extent when the trouble was surrounding me. But actually less so than in those days the argument was - the criticisms were still mostly from the right, from people like, you know, the Cardinal of New York or the chief rabbi of Great Britain or the Pope, you know. All of whom found it perfectly possible to sympathize with Islamic religious leaders about me.
So and that taught me something interesting about the unity of the God Squad, you know. Now it seems that this liberal spirit of appeasement of political correctness is a new problem. Because of course it’s obviously quite right to say that communities that are discriminated against and oppressed and economically disadvantaged need to have those issues looked at, you know, and we need to try to deal with those issues. That’s not the same thing as saying you can’t criticize ideas they seem to hold. If you can’t ring fence ideas. It’s one thing to say people must not be discriminated against but to say that ideas become illegitimate or legitimate because they’re held by disadvantaged people is - it’s just a flaw. It’s very important to remember that when free expression is diminished or restricted it’s usually minority groups that suffer first. It’s their free expression that is restricted before the majorities.
So it’s always in the interest of minority communities to defend free expression because their own rights are involved. And if by doing that they have to put up with a certain amount of criticism of their own ideas then that just goes with the territory. And it’s very worrying to see well-meaning people, people who are coming from a good place, joining in with the world of censorship and therefore ending up in a very bad place. I think it’s perfectly legitimate to be highly critical of religion in general and in particular right now the use is being made of the Islamic religion because of, I mean, what’s happening in the world, you know. I think to say that that’s not to do with Islam is just a logical impossibility. Of course it is. If everybody engaged in acts of Islamic terrorism says that they’re doing it in the name of Islam who are we to say they’re not. I mean now of course what they mean by Islam might well not be what most Muslims mean by Islam. But it’s still a form of Islam and it’s a form of Islam that’s become unbelievably powerful in the last 25 and 30 years.
A form of Islam that if that oppresses and kills Muslims more than anyone else. That’s to say most of the Muslim deaths in the world right now are not caused by American drones. They’re caused by Islamic attacks on Muslims of another type, you know.....
To read the transcript, please go to bigthink.com/videos/salman-ru...
Islam is not a race; people of all races can choose to be Muslim or not. Islam is a religion and thus an ideology, and ALL ideologies should be subject to scrutiny and potential criticism.
Right on!
absolutely correct
Philosophy Tube has a good video on what "race" means as far as social issues are concerned.
Of course, according to some scientists now, there are no human races, because all humans are too genetically similar.
Truth
I wouldn't say they are mutations they are what Islam is.
cauz you know Islam better than an exmuslim philosopher
This is Big Think, you have to couch things a certain way. The decline in the Ottoman Empire mutated Islam into a more tolerable form. It seems to be mutating back to its roots.
Its more rituals in certain cultures then islam.
LagiNaLangAko23 Aye, forget climate change, Islam is all the reason anyone needs to get off oil.
Damian Louden I'm looking at what Muhammad taught and its violent especially when you compare it to Jesus who taught peace.
You know a guy has a point when you try to murder him and he can still come up with a calm, cogent argument against you.
They almost succeeded in August 2022. But it backfired, because the peaceful people proved him right.
Wait he doesn't have any argument. He never criticised islam. He only offended muslims and their respected leaders. Just because he talks like an intellectual doesn't make him one. There are thousands of anti islamic books out there criticising islam. My point is .. he did NOT CRITICISE he just blatantly disrespected. If you are supporting him, then you are saying it is okay to hurl serious abuses at people you don't agree. Please look up how he offended muslims and you will see out of touch this video is. The world is a stage.
@@safefella I think it's okay to hurl abuse at people you don't agree with. I don't think it's okay to stab them.
@@IndigoChildism well firstly the abuse came first. On top of that, there is a bunch of people defending his statement. And the person who stabbed has been done by the law. And he didn't say anything in his book that is in the realm of free speech. What he wrote in the book is provocative and is intended to disturb the public peace. And he should have been punished for that, because he didnt come out with an intellectual criticism. It was plain abuse. Nobody would take what he said, and nobody would say such a thing unless you have malicious powerful people behind you. For context, please see how he offended muslims.
@@safefella Islam and followers of islam offend my parents and so many others. As per their culture and traditions my parents have been worshipping statues of their gods (for centuries) but islam tries to disgrace them, insult them, abuse them and threatens violence against them (I m not making up, its written in black and white in the book of so called peaceful people, which these peacefuls accept as absolute truth).
So dont talk about offending. Insteast of getting offended and trying to kill its writers or promoters, my parents simply chose to ignore that book of so called peaceful religion.
If Rushdie's book/work offends you, just dont read that book or follow his work. But there can be no justification for violence.
Right on. Why would anyone dislike this?
Religion.
regression
***** You misspelled "religion".
They come to the same ends.
***** Indeed.
If Salman Rushdie had writen his book today, SJWs would be protesting him.
Completely agree with everything he says here.
merinsan interestingly he germinated amongst who you would call sjws. He is a great man and brave to take on this topic
+DV M
I don't disagree. SJWs once were a bunch of reasonable and well intentioned people, just like feminists. Funny how things change.
Screw you and your ideology which is full of shit
@@merinsan many worthy causes get shipwrecked on the rocks of extremism. It's a shame the left has gone down the tubes because the right, especially the American right is out of control. Now the voices of reason aren't numerous or loud enough to counter the extremism on either side.
@@fluffythepitbull Really? Most on the "left" today would be to the right of Winston Churchill.
Meanwhile the right is way out into revolutionary traitor territory.
Fascism causes antifa to surface, usually waiting quietly and going unnoticed.
I am from India, Salman Rushdie hails from my country and it's my country's misfortune that we couldn't hold on to a majestic writer like Salman Rushdie. The then Prime Minister of India, Rajiv Gandhi, banned Rushdie's book 'The Satanic Verses', cuz it apparently hurt Muslims, for speaking the truth in a fictional way, Ayotallah Khomeini went upto the extent of issuing a fatwah to kill Rushdie, what Salman talks in this video is about addressing that form of Islam, which exists and is ever powerfully growing.
Religious politics has harmed our nation in many ways. Sad to see that it still exists.
We Indians very much like Salman Rushdie... it is just these islamists in our country who are against Salman Rushdie...
@@nyxawesome9409 oh comeon if tommorow he talks shit about Hindutva you'll start abusing him
@@aquatick1848 People talk a lot of shit about Hinduism in movies, books and even , I've literally never seen even one non-islamic person riot, issue fatwas or blow other people up for speaking against their religion. When have you seen fatwas and banners with "Behead those who insult islam".
Tell me truthfully if mention of allat, manat and uzza are not there in koranic texts.. If so why not burn those books first before Rushdie's.
@@nyxawesome9409 guess you missed the whole Padmaavat debacle.
Watching this video in August 2022 is particularly poignant. Get well, Salman. May you live many more productive years and continue to inspire us.
Good days were behind us
This was literally the first thing that popped into my mind! Couldn’t agree more with you…
The interesting thing in my opinion is that America is essentially going through the same battle with Christianity. One of the major political parties here is actively working to create a theocracy for Jesus. I recently read a bumper sticker that says “Jesus, guns and babies”.
If this is not the same problem with a slightly different flavor then I don’t know what is!
@@1PrinceWilliam I basically agree with you. The Christian crazies in the U.S. would like nothing more than to create a theocracy here. Getting rid of Roe was a major advance for them. That being said, I don't hear Christians, even the most radical of them, declaring that anyone who insults Jesus should be killed. For that kind of "Insult us, we kill you" attitude today, it seems you need Islam.
He’s right about this! I’m left leaning but I agree that freedom of expression should take priority over causing offence because it affects us more than the wider population.
If to defend a minority the world has to be bombed and destroyed , the minority should rethink where they are and go face the consequences of what their faith produces( fear and terror among innocent peoples) and keep it locked tight and practice only amongst themselves in its country of origin.
Leave the rest of us live our lives in peace.
Another point is that being close to Mecca would be such an honour ,wouldn't it?
Freedom of expression is fine, but when that freedom hurts other people, or kills other people, then it should be curtailed. A good example is Alex Jones. You are fine to push any conspiracy you want, but when that conspiracy, which is demonstrably wrong, affects another group of people (like in the Sandy Hook shooting) people who believed his conspiracy actually made the victims of the shootings, have to move because of death threats they were getting from crazy conspiracy theorists...
There is a fine line with freedom of expression.
Not at all to be honest. You have to have knowledge to speak about it.
If you do not have knowledge then ask
This should be promoted
No one should offend. That makes sense
It’s simple
That’s why you ask when unsure
Instead of criticising
I can't remember the last time Big Think wasn't spewing horse shit. This is an encouraging return to form. This guy is on point.
But aren't violent mutations of Islam caused by global warming? Bill Nye told me so
The growth of the mutations is caused by the warming. Because life is fucking shit down there right now, and they need a scapegoat to take out their misery on.
Same reason the majority of the crusaders went to Jerusalem, their lives in Europe were shit and by killing infidels they could get a better life. Islam is just a few hundred years behind Christianity on the religious evolution scale.
No joke.
Christianity or the western world is not the custodian of what is right, even though he's right. The acceptance of various ideas and not reacting violently to them is what in my opinion is right. this thought process is not the brain child of christianity. Christianity has many forms and sects and saying that christianity is more evolved is just dishonest.
***** I never said u have to accept violent ideas read my comment carefully and this comment also applies Islamic terrorists who deny to accept other views
Its people like this man who makes this world a great one!
Wow an HONEST and THOUGHTFUL Big Think video????
Crazy!
When you come across a video with opinions you disagree with, are its opinions always "dishonest and unthoughtful"?
When it's about why the wage gap exists or about how systematic racism is keeping minorities down, generally best to avoid.
Yes, protect yourself against arguments for opinions you disagree by ignoring them.
When they're stating blatantly wrong Marxist narratives of how they're so oppressed in the first world, yes I'd rather listen to something educational.
FitnessBusiness Success Maybe you're one of the people who thinks "our job is done" when it comes to equality in the first world.
The worst thing religion does is keep its own believers down. It keeps them from studying, from working, from making any progress.
Islam is the highest inspiration that led me to live, to study, to work, to act for the progress of society, to treat majority and minority justly and to keep living. Don't be misled by the biased media, you could read about Islam from many resources that are not biased.
@@vehement-critic_q8957 The very fact that many muslim Nations discourage vaccination...kill scientists in the name of blasphemy ...and the dearth of human rights...simply doesn't add up to your narrative....Facts are all over the place ..denial does not help....it's great to point out the faults...of other religions...but it would wise to acknowledge...the dirt that a few radicals....use to justify...their acts...and the very act of remaining apolitical....and refraining from calling this out...is a grave sin....
@@arunsurendran3217 Well, it is the same very fact that many subhumans encourage toxic vaccination. ...kill the people in the name of science as mice of experiments and damage the environment and cause pollution under the same name, and spread their sick ideologies in the name of human rights while they are not a bit related to human rights....simply these doesn't add up to your nonsense...Reality is clear out there...confusing others with your own fixed and rigid misinterpretations is of no help..it's great to check and investigate before prejudging and generalising..it's wise to acknowledge that some persons are biased in their judgements focusing on "other religions" while they are ignoring their own religion or ideology. Yes, Muslim nations have their own pros and cons, but it's never the problem of the religion when it comes to mishaps and mistakes. Let's not prejudge and over generalise. Have a nice day.
@@vehement-critic_q8957 No religion is perfect my friend at the end of the day theyre ideologies....refuting facts and clear cut evidences does not support any cause.....sure there are evil doers in West....there are psychos who commit atrocities in the name of science...and so are people who kill others who don't ...conform to their ideologies..or beliefs...if you look up history you'd understand...the amount of bloodshed...there has been .....you guys call it against atrocities committed against Muslims great...but why can you guys acknowledge that there are wrong doers...in your creed?Why do you guys remain silent when non Muslims are targeted?Remaining apolitical ...at such junctures...doesn't quite add up...Well...people agree that there are bad guys up in any religion...you can think of but then they do acknowledge this barbarism...rather than saying they do not belong to their community...heck they ain't real followers ..crap...if there's a problem ..you need to strike at the root and do away with it...rather than defend it and asking people to study Religion...have you ever thought why people harbour these feelings towards you people? Disguise yourself as a non Muslim and try living in these areas...you'd understand what is the reality... Do read about the atrocities committed against parsis and Buddhists ....sure there are great Muslims out there....but usually when you guys go out and say that your Religion is peaceful.and promotes tolerance..the very next day you come across... atrocities committed by some Muslims...on pnon believers...now this does causes some cognitive dissonance...
Islam seeks to keep women born into it, down. In a state of being under control. It is inhumane. It is abusive. FGM is abuse. Child marriage is abuse. Honour killing is abuse. Sharia is abuse. Wive beating is abuse. Acid attacks are abuse. Preventing women from pursuing their own personal and intellectual path to development is abuse.
Its not a violent mutation but original form
.
The P in Islam stands for peace
Hahah
And a in your name stands for asshole
The peace in Islam is submission, oppression and jizyah (when in the majority) but a lesser jihad when in the minority. Islam’s peace everyone else’s enslavement.
Christopher Ward Sure sure 😂, a random youtube commenter “claims” to know a lot about Islam, the truth though?
Your opinion does not matter, simple
Hinduism is studded with Ps for that matter
i live in an islamic country and i have left islam (secretly due to fear for my life). i want donald trump to win the american presidency only for this reason that i know what islam really is.... and he calls it like it is. even if we have to suffer it will be really bad for this earth and human progress if all corners of the earth fall under the influence of islam. that is just my opinion for now.
If you know what islam is then put it in your comment. The country might have been corrupt but islam will always be a religion of peace.
@@abdi4353 that's funny, peace in what sense? It promotes peace and doesn't allow violence or it enforces a peaceful tyranny
@@thewhisper417 Islam is quite the opposite of a tyranny. Islam is a religion for the oppressed and an enemy of the oppressors. Furthermore islam is not a pacifist religion, but a religion of self defense. I don't see how this could be a violent religion.
I forgot to mention, following the principles of islam helps people be in a state of inner peace and the five daily prayers along with fasting helps oneself prevent themselves from sin.
@@abdi4353 so by that logic those that prayer 5 times a day and sin arent doing it right? Simple personal statement isnt objective reality
Bravo to a brave man and great writer!
Rushdie did nothing wrong... We are all with you Rushdie!!
Still seeing things clearly, keep up the good work red-pilling the world on Islam.
There is nothing to redpill. You are not who you think you are if you think of yourself as any of these: hindu, christian. Jew, atheist. Look carefully. You are part of the Militant Liberal. There us huge gap between the dictionary meaning of liberal and the Liberal ideology. Guy did NOT criticise, he ONLY insulted highly esteemed people in islam. You, my friend, is acting like it is justified to hurl insults just because you dont agree. Thats not intellectual, it is childish. Dont forget, there are MANY books criticising islam. Salman is the face of an agenda that HAS already defeated you. Now it is trying to use you to defeat islam.
Speaking out against political correctness. awesome jobs should be done more often.
He put things together so neatly that its pleasure to hear him....wish this video were longer
I read his book a few days ago and it was really a good book, and it received so much unnecessary hate
Hmmmm.....
Try midnight children- it’s his best piece
I would argue that violence (like in other Abrahamic religions) are INHERENT to Islam -- The adherents of 'radical Islam' simply do not disregard the violent tenets stipulated in the Quran and Hadiths.
It is no a mutation in islam, it is only islam. The religion of peace, aka rest in peace.
rest in pieces*
LOL omg xD
Lol omg XD
It's only religion. Just the Holy Crusade a couple hundred years late.
Christians just did all the evil before pushing their morale onto others, so they could not do onto them, what they did onto others. totally christ-like.
When you discriminate against one religion, you miss out on a whole lot of religions that also deserve discrimination. It's like pokemon, when it comes to discriminating against them, you gotta catch them all.
liquidminds Tru, but only islam is invaiding Europa bei forse now!
As always Ruhdie goes to the heart of the problem. Very eloquently put and very astute diagnosis of the problem with Islam.
F00L
@@auguaauaguga6517 Lol.
@@wattlebough He is a f00l
As a muslim, I support his point of view. Muslims need to understand that every religion can be criticized, and violent interpretations of Islam are still “Islam”; something needs to be done on this front.
I know I'm two years too late, but good on you!
Blind faith is not faith and religion should be criticized freely.
I love Salman Rushdie, but he’s got it twisted. It is not the violent radical Islam that is the mutation, it is the peaceful moderate kind. Islam‘s books are nothing but the violent and radical kind and are very clear about their position.
overall, a good point. but its not a "mutation". its simply a straight-foward or literal interpretation. in other words, osama bin larden's take on Islam is totally plausable, and "dying in defence of the faith" and jihad are some of the most central messages of the qu'ran. the "good" or "moderate" muslims simply cherry pick their docterines
Similar to how any extremist cherry picks verses of all these fables of all the world religions.
Yes
@@SuperBookdragon only 2 cherry pick, rest don't have instructions to cherry pick from
@mbrea123 you probably aren't wrong in your comment, but how is that a bad thing IF it doesn't involve stepping on other's toes. Are you saying it is GOOD VALUE to give up fighting for something good that you believe in. I totally agree that you would be a danger to everyone if you forcefully took over others property and rights. But to fight for your own is a good quality.
People Like Salman Rushdie deserve ALOT more respect than they get.
What a Blight on Human Evolution the God Squad has been. Hopefully we shed the affliction soon, like it was lead poisoning or something.
+Respect Mr.Rushdie, bigger balls than most...
Hi Salman,I totally agree. This virulent from of Islam has become like a cancer to the body of the rest of Islam and must be cured or amputated for the good of the host,the rest of Islam and everyone else. Thank you for your clear and concise statement of the real issue.Thanks
The virulent form of islam is the true face of islam because even their own "prophet" muhammad said that he had been made victorious through terror & he called on all muslims to always carry out jihad once they had the upper hand. Muslims killing non muslims is part of islam & they believe they get rewarded in their heaven for doing so.
Wait, this guy didnt make any intellectual argument against islam in his book. He outright insulted islam and muslims. Why are so many people pretending like he had some valid points. He didn't make any points in his book. He just hurled insults at a group of people. This guy is not an individual he is part of an agenda. There are many books out there that talk against Islam and most of them are just lies. Muslims read them, get offended and stop reading if they dont like it. Those authors are not made so high profile, nor are they physically attacked for this long a time. He wrote a book that is just designed to offend muslims by trying to desecrate people muslims hold in high esteem. Not intellectually depicting another version of history, just outright insulting. YOU got played by the system. Now you are feeling peace at heart that you are more knowledgeable but you are not! This guy did not criticise muslims. He ONLY insulted them, and you feel justified to INSULT because you don't agree. Thats not knowledgeable, thats childish.
@@safefella muslims have always attacked critics of their religion. Lets look at the Napur Sharman incident, she simply responded to a muslim who was insulting hindu gods, by quoting the authentic islamic hadiths about Muhammad's paedophilia with his baby bride aisha & muslims all over the world protested & made death threats towards her. The very same thing they did to Salman Rushdie. Salmans novel also brought to light another quranic fact that muhammad did indeed reveal satanic verses to the people of his time & he claimed the devil out words on his tongue when he revealed verses supporting the goddesses al alat, al uzza & manat. Both critics brought about facts written in the quran & hadiths. Getting offended over critics of an ideology is understandable but murdering people & making death threats over it is utterly disgusting. All ideologies must be criticized & if they are true & good they will ultimately survive the critism but if they are false they will be weeded out for the safety of people.
@@goldspencer6949 thanks for responding. The nupur sharma case is deeper than you portray but i will refrain from discussing it now. The satanic verses are NOT in the quran. There are debates over it, and there are videos on youtube proving them false. Salman didn't intellectually debate whether it is true or false. Many christians say that the satanic verses are true to show that christianity is from God and islam isn't, but salman didn't do that (Btw most christians are preaching liberalism). He portrayed the prophet's family members and prostitutes and changed their names to curse words. What is the "intellectual" point of that? Quran is the ultimate word of God according to muslims. Hadiths are narrations that are false in many instances according to muslims themselves. There are christian vs muslim debates out there in thousands where one is trying to prove the other wrong. Salman didn't do that. Salman is acting on behalf of special interest groups which have conquered you to be a Militant Liberal, and now you are bidding on their behalf, while losing your humanity doing it. Freedom of expression has nothing to do with what salman did, and what is happening in india. If you can bypass the brainwashing and parroting the media, and just look at history, you will realise that whether prophet muhammad married a minor or not is NOT a big deal because it was VERY VERY COMMON ACROSS ALL CULTURES at that time. But prophet muhammad didn't prescribe marrying minors, he prescribed marrying biological women. Just because modern society makes it a law to marry after 16 or 18 doesn't make it an absolute moral truth.
@@goldspencer6949 those verses are NOT in the quran then how is it a quranic fact?
Big respect. We need such thinking and intelligence nowadays more so than ever.
I just remember words from one of my Muslim friend from India-
"wait, for few years, all world be Muslim one day, we will not convert you,
we are growing faster and faster...and you are finishing yourself..day by day...
He gave me some points,
1) We can marry with many women and can have many kids ( you guys can have 1 or 2-according to law),
2) Our girls don't /can't marry in other religion. we will kill her or/and him. So she CAN have only Muslim husband and Muslim
kids,
3) Our men can marry any and many women and can have only Muslim Kids.
and we know, generally, per women, how many kids we have...
and new points I found in Europe,
4) People in West, scare to get marry and/or to have kids. their population is decreasing so fast...
5) People lost faith in religion and God.
SO
he was right, "all world be Muslim one day, we will not convert you, you will finish automatically..."
Those are uneducated, unscientific and unproductive people. They are the cheap labor, nothing more. They have no power, no influence, no saying in the world.
But that is not how it will stay. Islam is going to grow out of its fanatical, stupid phase because they are getting their asses handed to them at every turn. They will learn and evolve and their societies and religions will change as well. Islam is the last hold out among major religion.
Peace ✌️......... High Fertility rate, illiteracy,lack of family planning and forced, brainwashed conversions won't make a religion more valid and great!
.
.
The religion which allows its followers to question, criticize and analyze will be the best one.... Not the religion which imposes it's laws and books to follow blindly.
@@kranthikumarm237
👍👍👍👍👏👍
🙏🥀🕊️💛🕊️🥀🙏
Pretty sure you made that up.
@@kyoungd Yep, I see islam going nowhere but oblivion in this day and age. The age of information will trample and shred islam very soon.
However, I do see a massive conflict world v/s. islam which will unfortunately ruin lives, economies and societal structures...
But he does see how Muslims that aren't extremeists wouldn't want to be associated with those that are, right? We don't associate all Christians with Scott Roeder.
no one could have explained it like you
I think the decision to award Salman Rushdie a Knighthood was a good one, certainly better than honouring dodgy financiers for political donations.
Guy did NOT criticise, he ONLY insulted highly esteemed people in islam. You, my friend, is acting like it is justified to hurl insults just because you dont agree. Thats not intellectual, it is childish. Dont forget, there are MANY books criticising islam. Salman is the face of an agenda that HAS already defeated you. Now it is trying to use you to defeat islam.
"It used to be the conservatives that were the ones that...."
I've been saying that a lot recently.
GRIIMM They switched before.
Sad that conservatives don't explain how USA christians were the responsible for this muslim radical revolution when they financed, trained and armed the talibans to overthrow the secular government of Afghanistan and overthrown the secular government of Iran letting the ayatollahs trake the power.
Have not heard from salman Rushdy in a while and was worried he was sick. The world will be a pooered place without him
Violent mutations of Christianity is still Christianity
You are completely correct! I couldn't have put the issue into words better myself.
In India both things are happening at the same time. At one side casteist left trying to look liberal by appeasing Islam, on other side brahmanical right wing itself powering hindu fascism forwarding brahminical order, then there is a small anti caste rationalist bahujan movment
We need a mature and a true rationalist party
What exactly do you mean by Brahmanical!!!????? Its Hindu right wing
@@adityabhattacharyya8727 yes
@@bhushan4966 Hindu right wing is cast less. They believe in Hindutva I.e Uniting Hindus.
They don't focus on specific cast but on Snatana Dharma.
PM from Bjp - Other Backward Cast (obc)
President from Bjp - schedule Tribe (sc)
good one, big think. best one in a while
those are very deep and wise statements. thank you for the upload.
I agree. Criticism of the idea is not discrimination against the people holding that idea.
He's somewhat tongue-tied as he beats around the bush. He's living in a country which is increasingly islamized. It's like waking up one morning, opening up your eyes, and gasping, "They're here already!"
not sure i agree. "If every form of radical islam conducts violence in the name of islam, who are we to say they're not?" well, charles manson conducted violence in the name of the Beatles, but the Beatles were blameless. i'm not saying his general thesis is wrong, but i don't think it follows from the argument he gives.
charles manson was an isolated example. If there were a huge amount of people that started killing in the name of the beatles, then we would say "hey wait a minute, maybe we need to look into the beatles fandom more." Also, this isn't the best comparison. Ringo and Paul can expressly come out and say "We don't condone killing in any situation, so don't do it in our name." God, regardless of whether or not he exists, can't hold press conferences to clarify his wants and desires for his followers.
Manson didn't kill people in the "name of the Beatles" that's retarded he was influenced by some of their tracks and music such as Helter-skelter and Revolution 9 but that isn't the same at all. He didn't scream out Paul-Mcartneywhoakbah did he? By your logic anyone who "influences" you, means that anything you do is in their name
"The Beatles" are not an ideology so it is not an apt comparison.
Except that the violence in the name of Islam is in the thousands each year
Wise and considerate as always. I love this man and wish him speedy recovery ♥
He is Not wise....so your and his Wrong Opinions are REJECTED
I've come around to these ideas much more in the last couple of years. The left has an echo chamber it can be hard to hear outside of. Mr. Rushdie I hope you are okay and make a comfortable recovery.
I understand his point, but why limit it to just religions? Let's apply this ideologies like atheism, secularism, liberalism, science, and western society as a whole
Umm remember the last century? Mao, Pol Pol, Stalin were based on atheist ideologies but there has only been on official state atheist government that is Albania under Enver Hoxha.
You see the problem with ideologies religious or non-religious is that people want to force them. It is met with obvious opposition ultimately leading to deaths and persecution.
We could see the fear and tension in you when you are putting across your view about Islam... Thats Islam..
One of the best honest opinions. Respect
I am a proud, far-left progressive and I very proudly support this message.
Hyper-PC ignorance is damaging to my ideology, damaging to my political identity, and damaging to national and global political discourse. Races are equal, races deserve politically correct protection; religions are practices and ideologies, they are NOT subject to censorship for their own protection; religions are and MUST be subject to rational discussion, logical debate, and sympathetic consideration.
I support Muslims and I want to empower national Muslims, and global Muslims in the Islamic world -- I want to see Muslims having conversations about how to reform Islam, taking it seriously, getting to work, and helping themselves. I want to see the Islamic take responsibility for themselves AND ISLAM, and I want to see the right and the left united in encouraging it, not preventing it!
Guy did NOT criticise, he ONLY insulted highly esteemed people in islam. You, my friend, is acting like it is justified to hurl insults just because you dont agree. Thats not intellectual, it is childish. Dont forget, there are MANY books criticising islam. Salman is the face of an agenda that HAS already defeated you. Now it is trying to use you to defeat islam.
@@safefella How exactly was the book insulting? Did you read it?
@@pomponi0 depicting prophet's family members as prostitutes, and slightly changing names to offensive slurs. No, i didn't read the book.
i must say that you are making rational points. and i understand.
"Violent Mutations"
So, just regular islam?
This isn't a criticism of Islamic ideas; this isn't what Rushdie is defending against censorial attitudes; this is simply hate speech. You - and many others - are tying a people in with their shared belief system, and casting both into a category as inherently destructive and unnatural. This is the kind of that leads to popular exterminationist social movements (e.g. anti-Japanese sentiment in America during WW2).
While I defend your right to free speech, I urge you to consider the societal movements this kind of widespread piecemeal hate-speech has the potential to fuel. It's one thing to provide progressive criticism of the ideas embedded in religions, but quite another to furnish a social world (increasingly online) where xenophobes and supremacists receive continual validation.
I think it's essential to criticise human rights violation, traditionalist oppression, divisive and hate-inciting speech. However, I also think it is fundamentally important that that this criticism remains rigorously impartial. These issues deserve civil debate, not to be appropriated into a one-sided, xenophobic discourse about an other culture.
Yes, there are forces arising from Islamic culture which threaten people in the West. Yes, there is repressive traditionalism present in Islamic culture. But these issues are not restricted, or inherent, to Islamic culture. Nor are Western people it's only victims. Nor are the West blame-free. These are collective human issues, and require collective human solutions.
Tell me which word, phrase, or sentence in this video is "hate speech." If you cannot, please do not make a fool out of yourself!!
I didn't say the video was hate speech, if you read my comment. I have a lot of respect for Rushdie; I was taking issue with the above comment, for abusing the freedom he defends in the video.
Thank you for clarifying. I would completely disagree with the first paragraph of the above comment. As for the second paragraph, I am not sure if the commenter made it up or it is actually parts in the Quran. For the third paragraph, I disagree with the first half of the first sentence, and I do agree with that Islam is not a "religion of peace" because 99% or even more of the terrorists subscribe to Islam and just as the title of this video suggests, "violent mutations of Islam are still Islam."
You can find them easily. From wikipedia on Aisha:
Age at marriage
See also: Criticism of Muhammad (Aisha), Islam and children § Marriage, and Child marriage
Aisha's age at the time she was married to Muhammad has been of interest since the earliest days of Islam, and references to her age by early historians are frequent.[11] According to Sunni scriptural Hadith sources, Aisha was six or seven years old when she was married to Muhammad with the marriage not being consummated until she had reached puberty at the age of nine or ten years old.[10][11][12][13][14][23][24][25] For example, Sahih al-Bukhari states:
Narrated 'Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).
- Sahih al-Bukhari, 7:62:64
As for IQ, here's a paper:
donalditempler.com/assets/templer_8.pdf
It is said that Low IQ is a correlation in violent behavior, in the ranges from 80 to low 90s. Much lower than that, and you're docile, much higher than that, and you understand it isn't good to hurt people.
An excellent video!
With the left "my enemie's enemy is my friend".😞
This is the best argument against religion I've ever heard. Religion is the catalyst for so much hate and violence, and pretending that doesn't exist is a tragedy.
starts with "is" and ends with "lam"
religion has also done a LOT of good. you're avoiding the problem by saying this
Religion of God is:
- All Prophets
common Mesaage to Mankind (to be informed)
- Pilgrimstate
where scientifically most spiritual energy exists for health and Mosques to pray thank.
- Books
Allah´s holy word in bible tora koran and before, when one was distortd Allah c.c. renewd his Word for next generation (sent Prophet before has validity only until next Prophet)
- Allah c.c.
name of Creator in hebrew arabic languages at ones holy books and last actual book koran, because last Prophets were hewbrew and very last is arabic Prophet, valid for our last end-time
Way (religion)
- Way is one, as God is one, as you are unique too among billions
- but selfish generations changed the Way always, so Allah renewed the Way, never are humans left alone
- Divine Signs recognizing Way:
All continents Media and People talk only islam among thousands religions
Pilgrimstate is efectivest gretaest among all
Churches worldwide empty, but Mosques everyday full
Only Islam considers human in daily life
Christians ain´t marry much more, live often alone
Muslims found families always everywhere
All Signifances Purity and Superlatives that make out the divine Way will be one-sided at Islam, never be seen at other religions
Using tool written on your body; justice, will help you inform yourself honestly to find the Way
No, religion is a scapegoat. Humans don't need catalysts to perform great evil. Your take is entirely irrational. You're conflating religion as a cause when it is a symptom.
People take this track when they don't realize they're already biased to believe violence is unnatural for humans. It's not. Humans are animals like any other.
I think he's quite right about all of that, except I think the root of the problem stems even further than a perverted version of a religion, even if we call it Islam. Just because they say and believe they do it in the name of Islam, which I'm sure they do, is not to say the route cause of their actions is a theological device. The real source of the problem, no doubt magnified by zealotry, is based in history, standard of living, resentment.
Beautiful video sir, more people must see it!
He is wrong. The militants are right. And the sooner we understand that, the better chance we have of saving Europe - or at least part of it - from the coming chaos and barbarism (whether of Islam, in the end, or a hard right fascist reaction to its militancy).
The contemporary "moderate Islam" is the mutation. From 610 to 622, Islam was a religion, propagated by persuasion and example. From 622 to 1924 - less than one hundred years ago - Islam was, and remains, a viciously intolerant system of total social control, spread by migration, deception, intimidation, threats and violence. It is a political system, a legal system, a military system, and an economic system.
As such, we have not only the right but the DUTY to hold it to the strictest scrutiny and rational criticism. If Muslims refuse to assimilate - and the vast majority DO refuse - we must judge whether their bloody-minded totalitarian bigotry is compatable with the ideals of a free society. And we must LAUGH IN THE FACE of Communists who run interference, lying to us about the nature of Islam, concealing crime statistics, hiding catastrophic mass rapes, etc. - when these Communists (by whatever fashionable new name) purport to stand for "tolerance" and "religious freedom." Forced approval - even forced "celebration" of Islam, in some instances - is NOT "tolerance." License to rob and rape and assault - because the perpetrator "doesn't know any better and must be educated" - is NOT "freedom."
We must halt all immigration and begin deportation of unassimilating Muslims to safe Islamic countries, NOW - or you WILL see the far right take control of Europe and sweep out the good along with the bad, and at unimaginable cost to life, liberty and culture.
Wise and sensible words by mister Rushdie.
One could but hope that more people could step back and look at these issues (and others) in a similar way.
His stabbing proves his point! Get well soon
"Unity of the god squad"!!!! Love him!
Islam is an ideal, people saying they're doing things for islam is akin to someone saying they did something for "the greater good". We know many bad things are done for "the greater good" but does that make "the greater good" the problem? Absolutely not. The problem always remains pride and arrogance of people thinking they know what's best when they don't.
"The greater good" is to sacrifice for allah, to please allah, to make people follow what allah wants. But this "greater good" is the greater good for muslim and Islam.
And yes "the greater good" is problem for all non muslim because they have nothing to do with your allah or Islam
well put!
Thanks again I’ve subscribed
Salman Rushdie is one of the finest writers of the contemporary times. All these 30+ years of trying to hunt him is nothing but shows how religion (Islamism in this case) is utter nonsense that is corrupting gullible minds.
it's weird to think refreshing truth is coming from the right now.
There are people who converted from hindus/xtian to Muhammedan but they cant now go out even if they know its bad then their previous religions....
Glad to see people speaking out, sensitive issue. But still true.
Satanic verses anyone ? This man is a legend
Awwww shit. Rushdie should know more than anyone in here what this 6 minute video will do to his security budget. Good for him for speaking out truthfully though.
Here after he was stabbed for being able to think . Rarity in modern times
SAD BUT TRUE
He's only calling them mutations cos' he's still scared about his fatwa.
wtf hes been speaking out since then
wade2bosh He changes his mind all of the damned time.
He is 100% CORRECT... He's been on Bill Maher's show on HBO... "Real Time With Bill Maher" and both Bill Maher and Salman Rushdie make a valid, strong point... it may not sound good to those who're in the PC-Police but truth never is easy to swallow...
both islam and Christianity should be subjected to scrutiny and potential criticism
Violent islam is not a mutation of islam. It's just a mutation. Period.
There is no peaceful islam.
words of wisdom
I dont think Islam has mutated. The issue isnt extremism but fundamentalism. Most Muslims not only believe their holy book is the inerrant word of god but that everything in it must be followed to the letter. In my mind, the only real different between an extremist and a fundamentalist is that an extremist takes it to another country.
Thank you.
I am a Rushdie fan, but I think he is off here. You can definitely criticize people for their beliefs, but what is happening now is that we see specific Muslim beliefs that are not shared by all Muslims are levied against all Muslims.
Post Script. All religious beliefs are ridiculous, but a lot of people have them.
I wouldn't say all religious believes are stupid, for example don't kill, Muhammad called for subjugation of infidels and woman and calls for death penalty for adultery, homosexuality and apostasy.
Making all religions equal is like making all ideology's equal.
exactly! well said.
How about talking about western interfaces, that surly has a huge effect, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan, Iran all countries that have been destabilised due to western interfac Hell man before the Iraq war how many attacks in the name of Islam did we see? This is just a response to western interfaces, justas the swing to the right is a respon to the immigration. Hell man just think about if your in a war torn country and you have a group that is openly willing to attack the group that has pretty much fucked up your life ( death of friends/family, destruction of cities etc ) what reason could u give that guy to not join he's pretty much all out of options at this point.
I fully agree the Muslims need to fix the image of Islam but this coin is not one sided
He is quite correct about refugees though
Its one of the most criticizable ideologues on earth, Everybody is responsible honestly
Spot on
I think the issue here is that for most of us we are talking about an Other. It's perhaps easier for us to come to terms with the fact that there are political extremists who claim Christianity (the Ku Klux Klan, the Westboro Baptist Church) but aren't representative of all Christians. It's easy because each of us in the United States, Canada or Europe either are Christian, have been Christian, or know Christians who are perfectly normal, reasonable people. There's not a risk here of anti-christian sentiment that would lead to discriminatory policies or outright hate crimes against Christians. We don't, as a rule, consider them guilty by association.
I have no problems with critiques of Islam _per se_ . The only reason I'm skeptical when these arguments are made is that too often hate or ignorance hides behind the guise of critique, and even valid critiques will be used to fuel hate against muslims. Words have power and we have to use them responsibly.
In the USA, 65% of muslims believe there is no conflict between islam and democracy. 52% say homosexuality should be accepted by society. 70% believe in the American Dream (most people can get ahead if they work hard... I'm not sure _I_ believe that!).
My concern is that by saying that radical islam is islam, it validates their interpretation of islam. It also can fan the flames of hatred and bigotry towards all muslims, pushing more and more muslims to radicalise. All of that for what gain?
I prefer to see radical islam as a perversion of islam, just as the Westboro Baptist Church is a perversion of christianity. I'm not a believer, but billions of people are. It's not realistic to expect all of them to abandon their religion. It _is_ reasonable to expect them to embrace secular and liberal values and find a way to reconcile them with scripture. We know that because it has been happening throughout human history and it's still happening today.
"In the USA, 65% of Muslims believe there is no conflict between Islam and democracy. 52% say homosexuality should be accepted by society." Do you think it's the same in Asia and Africa? I claim these percentages are awfully low for the U.S anyway.
Right now, Many Muslims around the world that are endorsing the attack on Rushdie ( Surely not ALL Muslims, but far from a small number of "extremists") so we should be worried about what Muslims do and think instead of saying something that may lead to hate against them. I'm an Iranian and I can observe what this religion is first hand, and I remember very well the kinds of things we've been taught in schools about hating Infidels and homosexuals- not only how they must die if they don't convert, but also how they will have to suffer for and eternity after their death. Can they be anymore hateful? I'm not sure how much of Quran and it's interpretations you've read, but for me and everyone else around me, having studied it it's clear where these extreme views originate from.
@@arumyn3070 I don't accept ANY religion or ideology as an excuse to hate ANYBODY.
A worldview that assumes that muslim have to hate on LGBT people is a worldview that presumes that either muslims or LGBTQ+ people are intrinsically EVIL. In order to maintain such a worldview, you also have to dismiss all those muslims who are tolerant, or even supportive of LGBTQ+ people and their rights as being bad muslims or "not real" muslims. It is a perfect example of the "No True Scotsman" fallacy. It's circular logic. No true muslim would be tolerant or accepting of LGBTQ+ people and relationships. What about all those muslims who are? Those aren't _real_ muslims, they don't count.
Says who?
It's very convenient. It's a worldview that makes hate inevitable. The logical conclusion for LGBTQ+ rights advocates is to hate muslims. If you already hate muslims, it gives you an excuse to keep on hating them even more. If you are a muslim who hates LGBTQ+ people, it gives you an excuse to keep on doing that.
I reject this worldview. My hope for the world is that one day every muslim, christian, jew, buddhist, hindu, atheist etc will embrace all human rights, including LGBTQ+ rights. I don't expect it will happen overnight, but we can see the process has already started, and so my hope is vindicated. In the meantime, I don't assume muslims are homophobic, instead giving them the space to learn and grow. It's a worldview that doesn't force muslims to choose between their religion and LGBTQ+ rights.
Myself, I'm an atheist, and I know how tempting _militant atheism_ can be, promoting the idea of a world without religion. It's easy and convenient to make religion carry the responsibility of all the ills in the world, and just assume that we'd be better off without it. It's not practical though.
The Quran has a lot of objectionable things in it. So does the Bible. Hell, so does the American Constitution.
Foundational documents aren't perfect, but a religion (or an ideology or a country) is not merely it's founding document. It is the people. And there is a great diversity in muslims in the way they read, interpret, and live the Quran.
Why expect or require muslims to abandon and reject their religion altogether when reforms have been shown to be possible? Why make muslims choose between radical islam and no islam when moderate and secular islam exist?
This is 1000x wiser than the original content, and the number of people commenting how wise he is doesn't change that fact lol
@@LadyVandMrT Wow! You are very kind! Thank you!
@@jsnrvstWell he calls it a 'mutation' isn't that supposed to mean the same?
He's completely right.
Absolutely true. He calls it. 🌿🌐🌿
right on point
Spot on. I like this guy!
I love me a calm and logical debate.
TheCruznator Me too and in logical debates you just don't study one side.
I'm totally on board with Sam Harris and even Milo and co. but it actually doesn't encourage me to see the kinds of nihilistic, rhetorical comments on videos like these. It isn't an individualists fight against tyranny, its a community of frustrated people with shared grievances, causing more problems for everyone under the guise of justice.
Its gotten to a point where I'm realising that every movement, no matter how well intentioned, inevitably becomes identitarian and vague today because people don't filter the popular behaviours and positions of their movement. They trust their movement because its theirs. People latch onto what seems to make sense to them and then run with the herd, spread the meme.
Today, we're all intellectual nomads. Our identity is gone. Principles are gone. We take in what we see as varied and useful information through this process but we don't project the nuanced and varied potpourri of ideas we claim to have had access to into the internet. Major social change is gone because every movement rises and suffers a violent death in a matter of a year or so because the people the constitute it are rotten.
You're so close to true wisdom, take us home, chief! Keep going around the bend up ahead and what do we find??
....
No group has ever been effective and nothing ever changes.
I was very much on the left politically but now centralist. This liberal appeasement is truly masochistic
epitome of wisdom.
This guy gets it.
To say that this is a mutation of Islam is overly kind. Violent jihad against nonbelievers and other muslims has been part and parcel of the history of islam.
What's more amusing to me is the difference between Sunni and Shi'a - it comes down to order of succession of the prophet.
Rushdie nails it.
This guy can put an elephant to sleep holy shit
Perfect.
I am very surprised I'm not hearing islamic apologist concepts right now.