Cali always has to be the star of the show! I’ve been wanting to do this for awhile in my home but I wasn’t quite sure how. Definitely going to try and do this now! 1:14
Great vid Andrew. I haven’t had as much luck with pocket screws as you. But your jog looks a lot bigger than mine. I switched over to mortise and tenon joinery because of a few failed projects. Takes ALOT longer to do anything, but I get peace of mind lol.
Thanks! Wow, mortise and tenon? Very cool, fair enough! What method do you use to construct them? I was planning on trying that for this build, actually, but ended up falling back on the heavy duty pocket screws just because I figured I could work them faster. Someday though...
Nice job! I brushed marine spar on the plywood. Things slide on and off a tad better and it makes it much easier to clean. OK, I stained them first also. I’m a lunatic 😂
You may want to add support 2x4's between each shelf horizontal. Currently your shelves depend on the sheer strength of the screws. Screws aren't generally designed with sheer forces in mind.
Not a bad idea. Kreg screws are rated at 710 pounds for shear strength, according to Rockler: www.rockler.com/how-to/pocket-hole-joinery-kreg-jig. I'm comfortable with that figure, but 2x4 supports would certainly add strength without adding too much extra material or labor.
I know pocket hole screws get a lot of hate, but my research suggested they’d be plenty strong for this use. Kreg even says they can be used for home framing - though I’d be hesitant to do that, based on the cost of the screws alone.
Eric Culp We might add some doors to the front of the shelves some day, so the top part of the frame should help with that. But it doesn’t add much structurally. 👍
Eric I was going to say the same thing - the top horizontal 2x4s are not needed probably - except to help frame the doors but probably overkill for that purpose.
Your wood structure can support a lot of weight - the screws on the other hand... Doesn't anyone use hex bolts anymore? Far stronger and much less work because you have to use far less.
Agreed that bolts are stronger. But the pocket hole screws are rated to well over the stresses that these shelves will be subjected to, and their use allowed for the 2x4s to be oriented for maximum horizontal space. Not sure how to put this best. The thin edge faces the front and back. I couldn't figure out a quick way to do the same thing using rabbets nor bolts. Does that make sense?
I have built lumber racks with Kreg HD screws where each tier of the shelving system is carrying about a 1000lbs of weight. The Kreg HD screws have a massive shear strength weight rating.....way more than standard MGP10 grade structural pine. If you really want crazy strength, just up the rating of the timber to MGP12........it’s practically indestructible.
First of all, great project video. One thing I have to say about this is I wish you did not cut the long wood like that. I think you are very comfortable with pocket hole joint, but if you use the long horizontal wood as is without cutting them by making some simple mortise tenon joint for them the joint will be stronger and less cutting involved. But looking at the speed you cut and screw those wood up I think maybe this is the right way to quickly build up a good shelves. Thanks for sharing.
Thank you, great analysis! Speed was my goal, and I think the pocket holes are strong enough, but you’re right, there’s probably a way to notch those long stretchers into the vertical pieces without spending too much labor. Maybe I’ll give it a try if I build another set of shelves.
Thanks for reply. Sorry if I came off as rude. I saw in your other reply about your confidence in the quality of your screws that you bought, a good branded product. But I have to say that it is never the screw but the wood piece that will break off first, the strength of your screws can only matter so much, especially in your soft wood. If you really want a very strong joint on wood, use a good furniture bolt-nut designed for wood instead, because screws alone cannot hold much.
Great video and build! Andrew can you please tell me if you used Kreg pocket screws or another brand. I assumed you used course and 2 1/2" length? Thanks so much.
Thank you Anthony! Yup, I used Kreg 2 1/2" coarse thread screws. Here's a link: amzn.to/3ddr49c I'm planning to do a follow-up video eventually, but a couple of notes here ahead of that, in case you decide to build this: --We ended up cutting off the structure above the top shelf, and it all still works great. It makes the top shelf much more functional. --I ended up drilling a bunch of holes in the bottom shelf plywood for ventilation on the carpet underneath. One inch holes, 4 inch spacing, every other 4 inches worked great. Good luck! Have a good one!
Andrew Reuter Thanks Andrew. I’ll be looking forward to the follow up video. I was a bit shocked with the price of the Kreg screws at my local Home Depot & Lowe’s. I thought you might have used a different brand. Stay well my friend.
About $210. Shallower but comparable industrial shelving can be had for cheaper on sale. The advantage here is to custom build the shelving to fit your space. Might not make sense for everybody. More build details here: medium.com/project-lab/giant-diy-shelves-ade8c6d798d0
If cost was a concern, you could save a lot of money by using predrilled nails in rabbets, cross bracing, 2x2 corners, 1x4 slating(or shiplap for uninterrupted shelves), and maybe some joinery(cross lap, or even simple dowel joints like commercial shelving). But you'd be expending time and effort to save a little money. Designing a piece can take an entire day by itself, making a new tablesaw jig can take hours. Mistakes on a first time build can cost valuable time and materials. It only really makes sense to do the complex process of design, and joinery on a piece when you're going to sell it. For some storage shelves in a basement, whatever is fine. The Torx screws he used are expensive, but since they're heat treated steel they have exponentially more shear and pull out strength than say drywall screws. So even though these shelves have exclusively butt joints, no cross bracing, and are material inefficient. They're still pretty strong, and cost effective thanks to those screws.
@@AndrewReuter Where to start. What is the 'top shelf' timber uprights and cross bearers for?(next to the ceiling. Totally pointless) What are the bottom shelf timbers for or doing ? (floor will do the job) 4x2 timber....what weight are you expecting the selves to withstand ? Car engines ?(other shelves are lightly loaded with domestic stuff) Screws are the weakest link IF bearing any weight.11 mm OSB is ideal here. I would use 2x1's, half the timber, fewer screws and save hours in construction time The final product would be solid and suitable for that job. Remember: An Engineer can do for a shilling what anyone can do for a pound !!
Not true. There are lots of strong joinery options that would work for shelves like this, and pocket holes are one of them. Plus, they are fast, which is why I picked them over something like mortise and tenon joints. Here's some research about pocket hole joinery strength that you might find interesting: www.rockler.com/how-to/pocket-hole-joinery-kreg-jig/
MAGA MAN I've built shelves with just two 3-1/2 #10 screws into the end grain of 2x4 wood. Even with a sheet of OSB on top, it held me (275lbs) without so much as a creak.
Awesome stuff!! LOVE pocket holes...
Thank you! They definitely are handy. Strong and easy. Enables more woodworking via time savings alone...
Cali always has to be the star of the show! I’ve been wanting to do this for awhile in my home but I wasn’t quite sure how. Definitely going to try and do this now! 1:14
:) Good luck to you!
Great vid Andrew. I haven’t had as much luck with pocket screws as you. But your jog looks a lot bigger than mine. I switched over to mortise and tenon joinery because of a few failed projects. Takes ALOT longer to do anything, but I get peace of mind lol.
Thanks! Wow, mortise and tenon? Very cool, fair enough! What method do you use to construct them?
I was planning on trying that for this build, actually, but ended up falling back on the heavy duty pocket screws just because I figured I could work them faster. Someday though...
Nice team work.
Nice job!
I brushed marine spar on the plywood. Things slide on and off a tad better and it makes it much easier to clean. OK, I stained them first also.
I’m a lunatic 😂
🤣 Kudos to you! Wish I had that patience...
You may want to add support 2x4's between each shelf horizontal. Currently your shelves depend on the sheer strength of the screws. Screws aren't generally designed with sheer forces in mind.
Not a bad idea. Kreg screws are rated at 710 pounds for shear strength, according to Rockler: www.rockler.com/how-to/pocket-hole-joinery-kreg-jig. I'm comfortable with that figure, but 2x4 supports would certainly add strength without adding too much extra material or labor.
Wow, you have a LOT of faith in pocket screws.
I know pocket hole screws get a lot of hate, but my research suggested they’d be plenty strong for this use. Kreg even says they can be used for home framing - though I’d be hesitant to do that, based on the cost of the screws alone.
Good job team! ❤️👍🏻
Thank you!
Why build the frame all the way to the ceiling instead of just to the top shelf?
Eric Culp We might add some doors to the front of the shelves some day, so the top part of the frame should help with that. But it doesn’t add much structurally. 👍
Eric I was going to say the same thing - the top horizontal 2x4s are not needed probably - except to help frame the doors but probably overkill for that purpose.
Your wood structure can support a lot of weight - the screws on the other hand...
Doesn't anyone use hex bolts anymore? Far stronger and much less work because you have to use far less.
Agreed that bolts are stronger. But the pocket hole screws are rated to well over the stresses that these shelves will be subjected to, and their use allowed for the 2x4s to be oriented for maximum horizontal space. Not sure how to put this best. The thin edge faces the front and back. I couldn't figure out a quick way to do the same thing using rabbets nor bolts. Does that make sense?
I have built lumber racks with Kreg HD screws where each tier of the shelving system is carrying about a 1000lbs of weight. The Kreg HD screws have a massive shear strength weight rating.....way more than standard MGP10 grade structural pine. If you really want crazy strength, just up the rating of the timber to MGP12........it’s practically indestructible.
Excellent editing‼️👍🏼👍🏼
Thank you! 👍
This shelf would cost $7000 now 😭🙃🤣
First of all, great project video. One thing I have to say about this is I wish you did not cut the long wood like that. I think you are very comfortable with pocket hole joint, but if you use the long horizontal wood as is without cutting them by making some simple mortise tenon joint for them the joint will be stronger and less cutting involved. But looking at the speed you cut and screw those wood up I think maybe this is the right way to quickly build up a good shelves. Thanks for sharing.
Thank you, great analysis! Speed was my goal, and I think the pocket holes are strong enough, but you’re right, there’s probably a way to notch those long stretchers into the vertical pieces without spending too much labor. Maybe I’ll give it a try if I build another set of shelves.
Thanks for reply. Sorry if I came off as rude. I saw in your other reply about your confidence in the quality of your screws that you bought, a good branded product. But I have to say that it is never the screw but the wood piece that will break off first, the strength of your screws can only matter so much, especially in your soft wood. If you really want a very strong joint on wood, use a good furniture bolt-nut designed for wood instead, because screws alone cannot hold much.
Never thought of that! Wicked idea!! Thank you 3:49
Great video and build! Andrew can you please tell me if you used Kreg pocket screws or another brand. I assumed you used course and 2 1/2" length? Thanks so much.
Thank you Anthony! Yup, I used Kreg 2 1/2" coarse thread screws. Here's a link: amzn.to/3ddr49c
I'm planning to do a follow-up video eventually, but a couple of notes here ahead of that, in case you decide to build this:
--We ended up cutting off the structure above the top shelf, and it all still works great. It makes the top shelf much more functional.
--I ended up drilling a bunch of holes in the bottom shelf plywood for ventilation on the carpet underneath. One inch holes, 4 inch spacing, every other 4 inches worked great.
Good luck! Have a good one!
Andrew Reuter Thanks Andrew. I’ll be looking forward to the follow up video. I was a bit shocked with the price of the Kreg screws at my local Home Depot & Lowe’s. I thought you might have used a different brand. Stay well my friend.
Did I miss something? May I ask for the measurements of this shelf?
Great vid.
Thank you!
now cut the 2x4 after the third shelf and make a nice BBQ with them ;)
We actually did this and the top shelf is much more useful now! Still holding onto those scraps for now though...
Which model Kreg clamp are you using at 1:40? Do they still sell that model? Can’t seem to find one big enough for 2x4s
Pretty sure it’s just an older, manual-adjusting version of this one from Kreg: amzn.to/2QbO53v
It opens wider than it looks. Good luck!
Andrew Reuter thank you!
How much did all of that cost? Compared to buying shelves.
About $210. Shallower but comparable industrial shelving can be had for cheaper on sale. The advantage here is to custom build the shelving to fit your space. Might not make sense for everybody. More build details here: medium.com/project-lab/giant-diy-shelves-ade8c6d798d0
If cost was a concern, you could save a lot of money by using predrilled nails in rabbets, cross bracing, 2x2 corners, 1x4 slating(or shiplap for uninterrupted shelves), and maybe some joinery(cross lap, or even simple dowel joints like commercial shelving). But you'd be expending time and effort to save a little money.
Designing a piece can take an entire day by itself, making a new tablesaw jig can take hours. Mistakes on a first time build can cost valuable time and materials. It only really makes sense to do the complex process of design, and joinery on a piece when you're going to sell it. For some storage shelves in a basement, whatever is fine.
The Torx screws he used are expensive, but since they're heat treated steel they have exponentially more shear and pull out strength than say drywall screws. So even though these shelves have exclusively butt joints, no cross bracing, and are material inefficient. They're still pretty strong, and cost effective thanks to those screws.
Lemtil Great analysis. Thanks for writing it!
Poetry in motion...
lewisb3100 Thanks! :)
lewisb3100 c£
i wanted to be just like you ohhh this is so lovely 😍😍😍 5:38
Why don't you put the measurements?
mice must love that
too many cut, wasted strength, over material for that load.
As an Engineer of 50 years I have never seen such an over engineered, costly, badly designed project.
How so?
@@AndrewReuter Where to start.
What is the 'top shelf' timber uprights and cross bearers for?(next to the ceiling. Totally pointless)
What are the bottom shelf timbers for or doing ? (floor will do the job)
4x2 timber....what weight are you expecting the selves to withstand ? Car engines ?(other shelves are lightly loaded with domestic stuff)
Screws are the weakest link IF bearing any weight.11 mm OSB is ideal here.
I would use 2x1's, half the timber, fewer screws and save hours in construction time The final product would be solid and suitable for that job. Remember: An Engineer can do for a shilling what anyone can do for a pound !!
Everything is supported by a couple screws. That's a very poor design.
Not true. There are lots of strong joinery options that would work for shelves like this, and pocket holes are one of them. Plus, they are fast, which is why I picked them over something like mortise and tenon joints.
Here's some research about pocket hole joinery strength that you might find interesting: www.rockler.com/how-to/pocket-hole-joinery-kreg-jig/
MAGA MAN I've built shelves with just two 3-1/2 #10 screws into the end grain of 2x4 wood. Even with a sheet of OSB on top, it held me (275lbs) without so much as a creak.
I wouldn’t place a car motor on there, but it is plenty fine for basement storage. Awesome job Andrew.