Wayyyy back in the Jurassic era of the 80s, there was this little film called "The Rise & Fall of Western Civilization, Part 2", directed by Penelope Spheeris. In that movie, some guy tries to break down all the different sub-genres of heavy metal on a chalkboard. He reached something like 130 sub-genres. Of JUST heavy metal from the late 80s
I think one reason people reject too many genres is the fear that it will hold someone back. A artist won't follow their muse and only make another song like the last one. Also Smokey is right. The label doesn't want to take chances. I get it. And I understand an artist that wants to get paid feed their family. But there is a downside. Look at history! In the early 60's there was a band turned down by every label. "Guitar groups are on the way out" their wisdom said. But one guy went away from the crowd. George Martin only produced novelty records before he took a chance on a group called The Beatles.
This is what I've been saying about genres! I think i mentioned it 😅 There's too many genre and sub genre titles. For instance, deathcore is an offshoot of death metal or grindcore but heavier (shout out to Rings of Saturn!)🫡 but you have genres that is not needed, but the kids then coin a term and it becomes an official genre 🤦🏻♂️
I have “heard” that Elizabeth Taylor first called MJ the King of Pop when giving him an award at a music awards show. Supposedly eventually it was in his contracts that he wanted to be called “King of Pop. I remember when he married Lisa Marie Presley there were headlines that said “The King of Pop has married The Princess of Rock. I don’t know if the origin story of the “King of Pop” is true but I remember seeing the headlines when MJ married Lisa Marie 👑😊
I use genres like isles in a grocery store. Thrash? Isle 4. deathcore? Isle 13. Sub genres are more of where in the isle and what shelf its located on. Most of the time i hear the band name i immediately know what isle, but there are some exceptions. Some band names sounds like they belong in the kids toy isle but then realize its the butcher themselves. (After reading the comments, there are some great descriptions of sub genres lol)
Sub genres are more of describing the spices on the main meal. But for the most part its out of control. I think there's a sub genre called Gump shrimp slam,..... Jared dines knows more about these with the band logo guessing game lol.
Morning guys!,man, I tell you,my genre spectrum is ALL OVER THE PLACE! Haha! I just friggin love MUSIC! So I have a myriad of genres, and my playlists are, i guess would be called "interesting," to say the least! Lmao😂😂😂 Loved the podcast. I love you guys & love y'all tribe!!❤
Mike Patton even has his own record label called "Ipecac". He has some really diverse artists on it too. One of his favourite bands and major influences on Mr Bungle is a British band called "Cardiacs " who would often use multiple different genres and time signatures in the same song. They even had a new genre attached to their name called " Pronk" which stands for "Progressive Punk ", but they hated the label. As someone once said "There are musical genres and then there is Cardiacs music "
As I am listening to and enjoying your conversation I found myself thinking of Kate Bush, who you reacted to recently with ‘Rocket’s Tail’. She is a very difficult artist to pin a genre on. There is just too much originality and variation on most of the albums she has recorded. The most often used prefix to the various core genres people have tried to associate her with is the word “Art”, but that is a very vague descriptor that feels like a word people would use who have given up trying to classify her. Isn’t it a case that some artists are just so original that the only thing you can say with confidence is that they are their own genre. I think Kate and David Bowie would fall into that category.
Yes they are different elements of music in different genres, but to categorize I would say the variance of the audience or fans you have could determine where to place them, but for me personally I prefer a good beat like a groove metal riff that resonates and a deep lyrical message and a vocalist to influence the ambiance of the song.
I was gonna say Mike Patton's band Mr. Bungle fits perfectly into this mold. They will cover everything they feel like it. Not just albums but an entire song will have so much.
Genres are useful, up to a certain point. Sometimes things can get a bit complicated when you get into things that are extremely niche. I think metal and punk subgenres are the biggest culprit when it comes to over-classifying things, although electronic music also gets extremely complicated and hard to make heads or tails of. I think this tendency is understandable when it comes to music genres that are so indelibly interwoven into culture and personal identity-- there are genres that are a way of life. Hip hop, punk, and metal can be extremely over-classified because the subcultures of each often have important components that are outside of the music. Something that can make things harder is when a new generation or a new region gets their hands on a genre that's been around a while, but they redefine it in some way. An example that comes to mind is brutal death metal/SLAM/powerviolence/grindcore. I don't think there are very many sonic/sound differences, but these are still considered distinct subgenres. The UK also has its own unique subcultures that are tied somewhat to various musical genres like punk/reggae/ska, but the variations among mods/skinheads/teddy boys/rude boys etc. are interesting to look into. A Clockwork Orange starts to look more normal than reality in some ways. Speaking of that film/book, I think there should be a subgenre of street punk for bands like Lower Class Brats and The Adicts who adopted some of the aesthetic of A Clockwork Orange. Anyways, cool episode, and I'll probably be watching more of the podcasts in the future, this was my first time.
This sort of relates the Talking Heads song Burning Down the House. I commented on that the band has said that it was written as a disco song because of a couple of the members that wrote it were into disco music and wanted to do a disco song. So they wrote it as a disco song but they didn’t record it as a disco song. The thing is just because people that are in a band or group that make certain types of music doesn’t mean that they are not allowed to like other types of music.
I don't mind genres but the sub genres get ridiculous. I see some sub genres online and it's just 3 or 4 random words thrown together. The deeper the sub genres get the less meaning they have.
Genre - yes. A million sub genres - nope! A genre can steer you down the right path, but when you're splitting it down to thrash/speed/symphonic with a touch of yacht Rock, you're just getting ridiculous 🤣 Seems to be quite a recent thing in music. Give me a general idea, then let me decide where I go after that.
Did you know that there’s a music genre called “Wizard Rock” (or “Wrock”)? It’s a subgenre of rock music inspired entirely by the Harry Potter series. Bands like Harry and the Potters and Draco and the Malfoys write songs from the perspectives of characters in the books. Imagine a band singing emotional ballads about potions class or rocking out to lyrics about Quidditch-it’s pure magic and hilariously niche!
Genres have lost all meaning thanks to the millions of subgenres being made up out of nowhere. A new band comes out and slightly sounds unique/different and people are making up 15 new subgenres for just that one band. Then we get 2524425 other mediocre bands that just copy that one instead of also being unique. Also, you have the bandwagon posers jumping from new subgenre to new subgenre just to "be cool". Genre's have just become something to argue and be divided about. Either the music is good or sucks, that's all that matters.
I think bands like sleep token came around and people said oh why do genres matter. They don't matter but yeah you have to categorize. I think what we're saying is metaphorically a genre cannot be a blanket statement for a particular band because I feel some bands sway to this sound and this sound like from rock to rap to pop. I also think especially nowadays people are like well yeah their country but they play a lot of this too.. So that's the problem with genres A lot of bands I'll use sleep token again they're in metal genre they're an r&b genre if you look them up they are not stuck in one. And also who cares you like what you like That's another thing that I think people are saying. But yes if you're looking for music on Spotify or whatever and you want new stuff you are going to go under a category.
even In metal music that I more familiar with it depend of the person I know people who have no problem to skipping on different metal genre and people who don't do it they still listen to the same classic metal than new stuff.
genres too hard to figure out. I like metal, numetal and hardcore in many shapes and forms. in 1991 when I started caring about music, I didn't know genres and scenes. I went to cannibal corpse shows and the spudmonsters shows in 94 when I started shows and it all felt the same
I think Freddie Mercury would be the king of rock, or at least share the spot with Elvis. Freddie may disagree thinking there are better artists than him which I think that's why he had a huge fan base for being modest
Don't care about genres. My tastes is all over the place from disturb to john Denver to bee gees to Chris Stapleton to the who. In truth the industry has become very vanilla with vocalists each sounding the same and no originality. Prefer 60 and 70s music where singers could sing and band members could perform on stage without the aid of lip such or pitch adjustment machines.
One, myself included, could rather talk less about this band or that artist in general, but rather about songs or song pieces/concept albums. From say “ABBA,” “J.S. BACH” to “Frank ZAPPA. Unless, of course, one also wants to compare characteristics, attitudes, or vocal qualities. Just think of Mike Patton. 😉
The most creative music is also the hardest to try and pigeon hole. I'll categorise some stuff, but if I have to think about it then I won't bother to try, labelling stuff needlessly isn't worth the energy. Can you really label the Tulls, Floyds and Bush's of the world, perhaps easier to say what they are not. Are Gil Scott Heron - The Revolution Will Not Be Televised, Oui 3 and Faithless all what's considered Rap? 55 btw, I've listened to everything from straight Blues and Gospel to EDM.
Interesting topic… wonder where that came from 😉 It makes me laugh because every Monday, without fail, someone in your comments says ‘this is NOT nu metal.’ Then 3 people reply ‘yes it is’ 😆
just don't like when they call it wrong,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Ozzy is a Jazz singer even his wife Sharon admits it when she was ask about Ronnie James Dio and his style of Vocals,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, look it up
What kind of genre would you call it if someone likes a bit of everything... Smart.. that is what you'd call it.. I listen to everything from ABBA to ZZ Top.. that is my genre, what's yours.
What you mean who hell cares about genres? Well, a lot of people. And yes, including consumers too. I do. It s about not so " new music ., but good music taste, ok? With all due respect to you guys, hip hop and etc. not even ClOSE to the main rock music genres, and not only. Sorry, but that's how it is. Not even close, and those are most polite words I would say-))) about the whole subject. -))))
I don't need to define anybody from these genres of this stuff....I m talking in general, that there is no WAY and not even close to compare level of professional music of the main genres and hip hop/ rap/ etc. music. That's the fact. The best days of so called mass culture in all its forms a long gone....long gone. We now witnessing the general decline and that form/ genre of music is just another ugly display of such decline. Nothing new and hard to understand.
Growing up in the 60's and 70's I don't remember caring about genres, if a song had a groove to it we just played that shit.
Wayyyy back in the Jurassic era of the 80s, there was this little film called "The Rise & Fall of Western Civilization, Part 2", directed by Penelope Spheeris. In that movie, some guy tries to break down all the different sub-genres of heavy metal on a chalkboard.
He reached something like 130 sub-genres. Of JUST heavy metal from the late 80s
I think one reason people reject too many genres is the fear that it will hold someone back. A artist won't follow their muse and only make another song like the last one. Also Smokey is right. The label doesn't want to take chances. I get it. And I understand an artist that wants to get paid feed their family. But there is a downside. Look at history! In the early 60's there was a band turned down by every label. "Guitar groups are on the way out" their wisdom said. But one guy went away from the crowd. George Martin only produced novelty records before he took a chance on a group called The Beatles.
This is what I've been saying about genres! I think i mentioned it 😅
There's too many genre and sub genre titles.
For instance, deathcore is an offshoot of death metal or grindcore but heavier (shout out to Rings of Saturn!)🫡
but you have genres that is not needed, but the kids then coin a term and it becomes an official genre 🤦🏻♂️
I have “heard” that Elizabeth Taylor first called MJ the King of Pop when giving him an award at a music awards show. Supposedly eventually it was in his contracts that he wanted to be called “King of Pop.
I remember when he married Lisa Marie Presley there were headlines that said “The King of Pop has married The Princess of Rock.
I don’t know if the origin story of the “King of Pop” is true but I remember seeing the headlines when MJ married Lisa Marie 👑😊
I use genres like isles in a grocery store. Thrash? Isle 4. deathcore? Isle 13. Sub genres are more of where in the isle and what shelf its located on. Most of the time i hear the band name i immediately know what isle, but there are some exceptions. Some band names sounds like they belong in the kids toy isle but then realize its the butcher themselves. (After reading the comments, there are some great descriptions of sub genres lol)
I love music from Mozart to Chris Stapleton, from Billie Holiday to Led Zeppelin. And everything in between.
My homies love all the fuckin genres. That Blondie shirt is hard
I would say subgenres are less important. It can get out of control sometimes...lol..
Sub genres are more of describing the spices on the main meal. But for the most part its out of control. I think there's a sub genre called Gump shrimp slam,..... Jared dines knows more about these with the band logo guessing game lol.
Morning guys!,man, I tell you,my genre spectrum is ALL OVER THE PLACE! Haha! I just friggin love MUSIC! So I have a myriad of genres, and my playlists are, i guess would be called "interesting," to say the least! Lmao😂😂😂 Loved the podcast. I love you guys & love y'all tribe!!❤
Genres are there so one can identify and have clarification about what is being talked about!
lots of old artist claim sugar hill was a rip off of the DJ art
Mike Patton even has his own record label called "Ipecac". He has some really diverse artists on it too. One of his favourite bands and major influences on Mr Bungle is a British band called "Cardiacs " who would often use multiple different genres and time signatures in the same song. They even had a new genre attached to their name called " Pronk" which stands for "Progressive Punk ", but they hated the label. As someone once said "There are musical genres and then there is Cardiacs music "
Muggles who use music as noise in the background and don't actively listen to it
As I am listening to and enjoying your conversation I found myself thinking of Kate Bush, who you reacted to recently with ‘Rocket’s Tail’. She is a very difficult artist to pin a genre on. There is just too much originality and variation on most of the albums she has recorded. The most often used prefix to the various core genres people have tried to associate her with is the word “Art”, but that is a very vague descriptor that feels like a word people would use who have given up trying to classify her. Isn’t it a case that some artists are just so original that the only thing you can say with confidence is that they are their own genre. I think Kate and David Bowie would fall into that category.
Right? I've always said this..... I don't care what genre/subgenre people named it, if it sounds good to me I'm down
Exactly!
Without an independent label is the artist really creatively free?
Happy Tuesday!
Yes they are different elements of music in different genres, but to categorize I would say the variance of the audience or fans you have could determine where to place them, but for me personally I prefer a good beat like a groove metal riff that resonates and a deep lyrical message and a vocalist to influence the ambiance of the song.
IMO, as long as the music is good, who cares what genre it is.
I was gonna say Mike Patton's band Mr. Bungle fits perfectly into this mold. They will cover everything they feel like it. Not just albums but an entire song will have so much.
Mr. Bungle are so good it pisses me off
Genre’s are useful for discovering new stuff
Genres are useful, up to a certain point. Sometimes things can get a bit complicated when you get into things that are extremely niche. I think metal and punk subgenres are the biggest culprit when it comes to over-classifying things, although electronic music also gets extremely complicated and hard to make heads or tails of. I think this tendency is understandable when it comes to music genres that are so indelibly interwoven into culture and personal identity-- there are genres that are a way of life. Hip hop, punk, and metal can be extremely over-classified because the subcultures of each often have important components that are outside of the music. Something that can make things harder is when a new generation or a new region gets their hands on a genre that's been around a while, but they redefine it in some way. An example that comes to mind is brutal death metal/SLAM/powerviolence/grindcore. I don't think there are very many sonic/sound differences, but these are still considered distinct subgenres. The UK also has its own unique subcultures that are tied somewhat to various musical genres like punk/reggae/ska, but the variations among mods/skinheads/teddy boys/rude boys etc. are interesting to look into. A Clockwork Orange starts to look more normal than reality in some ways. Speaking of that film/book, I think there should be a subgenre of street punk for bands like Lower Class Brats and The Adicts who adopted some of the aesthetic of A Clockwork Orange. Anyways, cool episode, and I'll probably be watching more of the podcasts in the future, this was my first time.
This sort of relates the Talking Heads song Burning Down the House. I commented on that the band has said that it was written as a disco song because of a couple of the members that wrote it were into disco music and wanted to do a disco song. So they wrote it as a disco song but they didn’t record it as a disco song. The thing is just because people that are in a band or group that make certain types of music doesn’t mean that they are not allowed to like other types of music.
Metal is metal. I would use sub genres if I'm describing a band to someone.
I don't mind genres but the sub genres get ridiculous. I see some sub genres online and it's just 3 or 4 random words thrown together. The deeper the sub genres get the less meaning they have.
Friggin aye..for reals!! Lol
Genre - yes. A million sub genres - nope! A genre can steer you down the right path, but when you're splitting it down to thrash/speed/symphonic with a touch of yacht Rock, you're just getting ridiculous 🤣 Seems to be quite a recent thing in music. Give me a general idea, then let me decide where I go after that.
Did you know that there’s a music genre called “Wizard Rock” (or “Wrock”)? It’s a subgenre of rock music inspired entirely by the Harry Potter series. Bands like Harry and the Potters and Draco and the Malfoys write songs from the perspectives of characters in the books. Imagine a band singing emotional ballads about potions class or rocking out to lyrics about Quidditch-it’s pure magic and hilariously niche!
That is awesome
Genres have lost all meaning thanks to the millions of subgenres being made up out of nowhere. A new band comes out and slightly sounds unique/different and people are making up 15 new subgenres for just that one band. Then we get 2524425 other mediocre bands that just copy that one instead of also being unique. Also, you have the bandwagon posers jumping from new subgenre to new subgenre just to "be cool". Genre's have just become something to argue and be divided about. Either the music is good or sucks, that's all that matters.
Hot take: All the clone bands are the ones who push the cool bands to be unique and play harder
That's why Peelingflesh is doing so well these days
I think bands like sleep token came around and people said oh why do genres matter. They don't matter but yeah you have to categorize. I think what we're saying is metaphorically a genre cannot be a blanket statement for a particular band because I feel some bands sway to this sound and this sound like from rock to rap to pop. I also think especially nowadays people are like well yeah their country but they play a lot of this too.. So that's the problem with genres A lot of bands I'll use sleep token again they're in metal genre they're an r&b genre if you look them up they are not stuck in one. And also who cares you like what you like That's another thing that I think people are saying.
But yes if you're looking for music on Spotify or whatever and you want new stuff you are going to go under a category.
even In metal music that I more familiar with it depend of the person I know people who have no problem to skipping on different metal genre and people who don't do it they still listen to the same classic metal than new stuff.
Yea i prefer a bit of organisation so i do care about genres , imagine going to tesco and tampons are sat next to the doritos 😂 love you guys ✌🙏
And if the tampons were edible, which section does it go then?
@eonisone lol next to the chocolate mice.
@@Laura-thf now THAT'S a subgenre!
genres too hard to figure out. I like metal, numetal and hardcore in many shapes and forms. in 1991 when I started caring about music, I didn't know genres and scenes. I went to cannibal corpse shows and the spudmonsters shows in 94 when I started shows and it all felt the same
I think Freddie Mercury would be the king of rock, or at least share the spot with Elvis. Freddie may disagree thinking there are better artists than him which I think that's why he had a huge fan base for being modest
Screw genres....ya like what ya like & that's all that matters 🤷🏻♂️
As a consumer of music & not a producer... I can say that 🤣
Don't care about genres. My tastes is all over the place from disturb to john Denver to bee gees to Chris Stapleton to the who. In truth the industry has become very vanilla with vocalists each sounding the same and no originality. Prefer 60 and 70s music where singers could sing and band members could perform on stage without the aid of lip such or pitch adjustment machines.
Poppy, Igorrr, Nail Bite, Omnia...
All these bands totally defy genre
One, myself included, could rather talk less about this band or that artist in general, but rather about songs or song pieces/concept albums. From say “ABBA,” “J.S. BACH” to “Frank ZAPPA.
Unless, of course, one also wants to compare characteristics, attitudes, or vocal qualities. Just think of Mike Patton. 😉
Death Metal started in the 80's not the 90's...
I get too confused bc they are always re-naming genres . I just Love Music in general and have my favorites in lots of Said genres..?
The most creative music is also the hardest to try and pigeon hole. I'll categorise some stuff, but if I have to think about it then I won't bother to try, labelling stuff needlessly isn't worth the energy. Can you really label the Tulls, Floyds and Bush's of the world, perhaps easier to say what they are not. Are Gil Scott Heron - The Revolution Will Not Be Televised, Oui 3 and Faithless all what's considered Rap? 55 btw, I've listened to everything from straight Blues and Gospel to EDM.
I wont buy disco because it sucks. That's why we need to categorize music.
Sanford and son
Interesting topic… wonder where that came from 😉
It makes me laugh because every Monday, without fail, someone in your comments says ‘this is NOT nu metal.’ Then 3 people reply ‘yes it is’ 😆
just don't like when they call it wrong,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Ozzy is a Jazz singer even his wife Sharon admits it
when she was ask about Ronnie James Dio and his style of Vocals,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, look it up
Did yous just reference Fred Sandord???
What kind of genre would you call it if someone likes a bit of everything... Smart.. that is what you'd call it.. I listen to everything from ABBA to ZZ Top.. that is my genre, what's yours.
I only listen to experimental, avant garde, psychedelic, speed, crunch-grindcore alteration metal
What you mean who hell cares about genres? Well, a lot of people. And yes, including consumers too. I do. It s about not so " new music ., but good music taste, ok? With all due respect to you guys, hip hop and etc. not even ClOSE to the main rock music genres, and not only. Sorry, but that's how it is. Not even close, and those are most polite words I would say-))) about the whole subject. -))))
Define "Hip Hop", artists, tracks etc. There's good music in most/all genres, even if it's not your thing.
I don't need to define anybody from these genres of this stuff....I m talking in general, that there is no WAY and not even close to compare level of professional music of the main genres and hip hop/ rap/ etc. music. That's the fact. The best days of so called mass culture in all its forms a long gone....long gone. We now witnessing the general decline and that form/ genre of music is just another ugly display of such decline. Nothing new and hard to understand.