Those simpler editions combined with GWs attitude towards its games at the time, that it was a fun light hearted hobby where conversions and creating your dudes, and having a good game with some friends was the focus rather than a esports ready ruleset based on an IP full of named characters to be consumed and followed in quarterly updates as you would a Marvel movie series.
Beg to differ. Averaging fire and overwatch rules, three different move types, ambiguity in lore and humour. And not needing to buy a million pounds worth of mini's for a battle. And as for apply common sense, changing characters to have double cost compared to second ed and changing to 'I go you go' in the turn structure would have been more sensical. Removing roll to wound was good, I will admit that.
3rd edition 40k and 6th edition fantasy was truly the golden age of Warhammer (at least for me), not only in gameplay but the style of sculpts, the lore and the overall esthetics of the entire hobby. Please do more 3rd edition games, really enjoyed this video 👍🏻
You know, its the darndest thing. Its been like 20 years since I played third edition 40k, but as soon as you said "the scenario is cleanse" my brain was like "oh, table quarters, I remember that"
I love, love, LOVE the 3rd edition rulebook. Everything is presented in disorganized little snippets of lore, and combined with the excellent artwork immersed you into 40k's grimdark like nothing since.
ya id love to re look at it. man is it just me or was reading battle reports in a white dwarf more fun then watching them on youtube ? They took good pics and wrote with lore / good writing on how the game went eatch turn.@@born2hula325
I found myself enjoying this even more than your typical 8th or 9th edition videos, mostly because I could actually follow what was going on without having to pause the video and re-listen to understand the weird rules / strategems / codex stuff. For the most part it's just the core rules, the minis, and the dice, which is such a refreshing change of pace!
3rd edition is a delight and it has a proper British wargames rulebook that conveys the rules in a narrative fashion making it impossible to look things up later. Glorious.
As someone who got into 40k around the release of 7th Ed, it's neat to see some of the old rules you hear about so often actually being played. There were a good number of times when I thought/said to myself "I wish that was still how it was done" like immediate morale tests and morale not making models just disappear into the ether.
If you liked this you would love OnePageRules as well. They are an amazing group of people with great rule sets for sci fi, fantasy and working on FTL type game as well. Inspired by older 40k stuff. I love it and I love third edition (the best Edition of 40k)
@@yagsipcc287 I’ve actually been a patron of theirs for a while now, but mainly for the 3D print models, and never checked out the rules, but I think I’ll give the rules for GDF a look!
@@yagsipcc287 I've been checking OPR after so many people recommended it and I don't see it. It looks like a stripped down and flavorless version of 40k. I'd rather play 3rd.
3rd edition was my favourite (at least in my rose tinted memories). I think a lot was mindset, it was more casual and a fun game to play and not a game all about winning. Also 3ed seems to have the most fun white dwarves - some were wild. But I was a chaos player then, so it was our era…
It was my favourite too, and the last edition I really played. Dabbled in 4th a bit, but sort of puttered out after that. I still have nearly 4000 points of metal Cadian Imperial Guard Armoured Company kicking around, complete with a few of the really early Forge World pieces like the Hydra Flak tank and the static Basilisk Battery. Used to play in massive 16000+ point team games at the FLGS and had a bit of a reputation for being able to eyeball ranges on the artillery pieces with frightening accuracy. Playing an armoured company alongside a buddy fielding Blood Angels as a vanguard was a... powerful combination.
Was it here they used daemonic instability? I know daemons had some rules that made them finnicky to reliably use. Ork units still had a lot of chaos but theirs was dependable in a way. You knew ork units would get angry and smash things up.
@@SusCalvin no, chaos demons were just part of chaos space marines, and were regular units. bloodletters were 3+ armor with a 5+ invulnerable, and a power weapon (ignores armor saves) making them more powerful than a space marine. Demon princes were chaos lords with more than 75 points of wargear.
@@KDD0063 I know WF Battles and WHF Roleplay had instability rules for demons. Ghosts and undead had versions of that too. 3rd edition had less special rules attached, especially towards the start.
Third edition seems a lot more suited to narrative battles, which is great! More Oldhammer, please! (It's sad that the terminator didn't even get fire his flamer)
The Rogue Trader/2nd edition were even more like half-RPG games. You could have an independent third player, the ref, who informed the players about environment effects or secret information or controlled third-party/NPC units in the field. In the RT starter mission, the orks get a special objective to search through the building a troop of marines are camping in. There is stashed loot under the bed of the marine officer, but only two ork officers know about this and they ain't sharing with the others. The marines don't even know this objective exists. The ref could control alien animals and aggressive wildlife or units of local gangs or a shapeshifting space vampire hidden in a unit. The scenarios straight out of the 3rd ed rulebook came in general mission types and then six individual missions for each type. Raiding missions, decisive battle missions etc. I think when there are less moving parts around, it's easier to adjust and pitch in your own. The Assassins codex had some suggestions about assassin-specific missions like pitching a single hidden eversor against a platoon of enemies or having a third player control the assassin on her special, secret mission to kill a certain enemy commander.
A handy trick that players kept up their sleeves in 3rd edition with melee was the player first picked what they'd fight with before determining initiative order; in rare occasions, Terminators would would not use powerfists and just fight with their normal stats instead of hitting last with powerfists.
Seeing the Dreadnaught vs Boss fight reminded me of plying 3rd ed and tar-pitting heroes with 50 man IG conscript and then never failing morale because of the attached commissar.
3rd Ed 40k was actually very simple. They trimmed out a lot of the fat from 2nd Ed and made the game less about OP characters and more about positioning and tactics. A character with a dummy thicc retinue could be mitigated or removed by specialist troops or your own characters while your troops did all the heavy lifting.
Unless you played with the first Chaos codex... broken HQ and the ability to build armies with completely specialist troops. Slanesh daemon princes forcing enemy squads out of position, ones who could ignore all armour and invuln saves, or Khornate ones throwing out a possible 10 attacks on the charge, most of the builds could still have points left over for T6 or a 2+ 4/5++
I doublechecked the space marine force commander, and the bloke is still a T4 marine with 3+ power armour. He just has 3 Wounds you need to get through. You could put him in a terminator suit. With an entourage, I think you could place the models so that the goons were at the front, taking shots for the character. With a few exceptions, units were unable to split fire and always targeted the nearest model first.
@@SusCalvin I don't know if they FAQd for the demon prince to be included or not because the upgrade for your lord gave him stats and made him monstrous but didn't say anything about giving him demon rules. But instability was LD roll and lose wounds for every point failed by
Love this. As someone who got into the hobby in 2nd edition, played most of my 40k in 3rd, and fell out of the hobby in 4th (to eventually come back during 8th edition), this brings back a lot of memories. I remember to how much simpler, quicker, and honestly more fun 3rd was compared to 2nd. I recently bought the 3rd edition rule book off ebay just for the nostalgia but after watching this I'm very tempted to give playing it a go again.
Got into 40k in 3rd edition and left during 5. Nodded along as the rules were mentioned. Modern editions leave me baffled, but i wanted to restart for some time…
For me it was the complete opposite. 3rd was so bland that it made me drop the hobby for nearly a decade. I think it has a lot to do with what parts of the game you enjoy.
It seems to me that the older editions dont have that many meta/abstracted gameplay elements. Useable points, strategems or things like that, it sticks more to the miniatures and what you do with them on the table. All the extra gamifications take away the immersion of being part of an emerging story of a cool scifi battle and although i get that the reason behind those is that you have more to do while playing the game and not feel bored but id gladly take the older narrative focused approach any time. So please Dave, do more oldhammer videos!
That's what I thought. 9th ed is basically just fluffs and you take the strongest units. People only care about meta list instead of enjoying the cinematic immersion and rich lore about 40K.
So I played in 3rd and it was miserable because even in friendly games your friends played the most broken 3rd edition 800 points Daemon Princes and other bullshit like that.
I played mostly 4th ed. Which was extension on this. You had the psychic phase and a few other things added. Necro was added etc. However, the flavor of the rules were very similar to this. My personal experience of the rule book were much like what he said, the writers basically said "use common sense" i.e "don't be a dork". However, there was a lot of legalese in players even in "for fun games" which took away a lot of the fun. A few of the people I played with started on 3rd ed, and would argue 3rd ed rules against 4th ed rules, and it would sometimes get confusing. I have not played WH since then, however, I think I would generally prefer a simple set of rules without all of the meta stuff. It seems to me, that if you can keep the game simple, and keep it moving it will be better. If there is any way to reduce the legalese it would be cool, but people will always be people.
@Tight n Nerdy Your very right about stratagems, in old editions if the unit was bad you just couldn't run it unless you wanted it exploded off the field. With stratagems it gives you some possibilities to sneak in some power where otherwise the unit would have sat on the shelf
The biggest difference between then and now to my mind is that the WAAC stuff used to be soemthing only gits would do by exploiting rules that weren't intended to be used that way. Nowadays, GW is intentionally making the game to appeal to those kinds of people, with each new release having some broken special rule that makes their army the meta flavour of the month, only to be needed in the next FAQ and replaced by that months new releases. It rakes in the cash, but it makes the game a mess of special rules, metagaming and exploitation of FOMO.
I was playing 3rd edition up until the release of the dark vengeance box. Me and my brothers/ mates didn't fancy buying new editions of rules. The rule book is so well worn it is now individual pages in plastic wallets and a binder! It has excellent artwork and stories.
The artwork by John Blanche in the 3rd edition Rulebook 'is' 40k to me, it's what my mind conjures when I think of 40k. it's a masterpiece second only to his work on the Mordheim rulebook in which it was his artwork which was used to create the lore, story and characters of Mordheim. I don't know how many nights I spent as a teenager reading through the 3rd edition rulebook, over and over just absorbing all of the artwork, stories and quotes. But it was a lot. I think the only codex or rulebook I spent more time pouring over was the 2nd 3rd edition Chaos Space Marines codex. Simpler times.
That's the role a meltagun always had. You run up with it, line up a shot at close range and microwave some fools. Meltaguns in half range (half range of 12, that is) could roll an extra dice to penetrate. Plasma weapons had range but they always overheated. There was no such nonsense as "safe mode" plasma guns, they were always set to dangerous levels. Plasma guns had double range compared to a melta and cost a few points less to make up for the lesser punch and risk to the user.
If I remember correctly the inability of not splitting fire was reflected by the cost of the heavy weapons being much much cheaper for a tactical squad than the same weapon costed for say a devastator squad
@@hotomatoe664 Not rly, space marines had Tactical Squad rule where you could break in 5man squad with heavy and other with sarg and special weapon. My fren had some DA made that way.
@@zielisawzielony9366 and those bolter marines still had to stand there like dummies and shoot their guns at stuff they couldnt hurt because their heavy wanted to target a tank. Or the missile launcher had to target something squishy instead of kraking a tank. They lowered the points to sell more hvy weapons at the cost of immersion. But immersion isnt really GWs priority when writing their gamey rules.
That was incredibly enjoyable- it’s my first introduction to your channel, and one of the few times I’ve sat through a long-form battle report like this. Your narration was just so calming and interesting to listen to, and it made the last hours of my work shift brilliant. I’d be genuinely interested in seeing more, and I’ve put on notifications for any future uploads you do regardless. Happy I found the channel, and best of luck with the algorithm! :)
I still play 9th edition kinda like this, I use the basic rules you get in starting editions. Makes the game a lot more enjoyable when you don't have to remember 20 different things
3rd is when I first started playing back in the day. When I came back in 8th I was disappointed with how stripped back it all seemed. 9th took that a step further. Things like vehicle armour, scatter dice and all the other random special rules which were in place made the game spazzy and fun. I really want to play the Horus Heresy tabletop game due to a less stripped back rule set but I don't know anyone near me who plays. On the subject of old GW content, they need to bring back Inquisitor.
This was awesome !! Very cinematic. I love the idea of a dreadnought getting crippled to kill the warboss, and the marines having to gun down the rest of the xenos to rescue their honored brother. It's the stuff you read about in the lore
If I remember right, 1at ed had points for base models and points for individual weapons. It was fun. 3rd ed was great. Fast, fun, and cheap. I stopped playing after 5th rd because spending more money to play something with new rules and books that were out of date by the time the books came out just wasn't appealing. Good on you for playing the good old days.
@@PerfectTangent 1st was a little different. At first you simply had two lists - one for wargear and one for creatures. This is why some of the old models are things like Space Marines armed with Shuriken Catapults, Orks with Las-Cannon and Eldar with Plasma guns. The only limitations were the intelligence of your troops (the base statline included Ld, Int, Cl and Wp back then. these were all combined into simple Ld for 2nd ed) and the force guidelines in the fluff section. It was possible to field an entire army of independent Gretchin back then, but all your heavy and special weapons had to be carried by characters because the basic grunts were too dumb to be able to use anything more complex than a shotgun.
9th edition is hopeless. 8th edition I really liked because it simplified the game again after the massive rules bloat of 7th. It's make to massive rules bloat again though plus the missions are so boring to play. Tournament missions don't belong in general play.
This was amazing! Thank you so much for putting all the effort into making this! I would love to see more Oldhammer videos, you could even slowly work through the editions up to the present day!
@@fan9775 - definite difference between the 2 approaches Complex means there's more than enough Layered is when rules are presented in stages, and is a lot easier to learn than everything at once But this massively depends on how the rules are presented - and 9th ed rules presentation is just crap
I like the old armour pen rules. One shot with a lascannon can blow right through a tank if you get lucky. Vehicles don't have a countdown of wounds, they get an armour value you have to beat with the power of the weapon. Rear and side armour is often lower than front armour. Something like a lasgun is incapable of hurting a vehicle no matter how much you plink away. A boltpistol might hurt a light vehicle or the rear end of a tank. But if that single lascannon got lucky, they could knock out a weapon sponson, make the tank immobile or blow it right up. An immobile tank could still operate its weapons. 1st and 2nd edition had a few more results I believe. A hit could penetrate and turn the crew inside to slush but leave the tank itself functional. The crew could find themselves alive in a non-functional vehicle, and then they could hop out and fight on as standard infantry models with pistols.
Ah yes... third edition. Back when it was all about the game and not about supporting a company's fiscal position and corporate empire. I started with the 40K Rogue Trader rulebook, and 3rd edition was the first attempt to streamline the game. As someone said it does play a bit like Grimdark Future does. Smoother and faster, and it actively encouraged rule interpretation and development. However... 40K was about to increase in popularity and with it, more people coming into the hobby who were only wanting to win, rather than play for fun, and oh god the arguments that arose over "but if the rules don't actually SAY so...." which is how we come to have a modern ruleset that has to spell out every single thing. Great video, I'm dusting off my old 40K metal minis...
one quite important thing I remember - when you managed to kill those orks in base contact (1:30.00 or so mark), when it came to them attacking back they didnt have anyone in base contact and therefore no one could attack (as the rule was that friendly models wihtin 1" of a friend in contact could fight). This allowed for some tactical manouvering and intricate placement of models to either get models out of or into actual fighting. I would say I think that 4th edition was better. It ironed out a lot of the oddities of 3rd but still had the right flavour.
I only played 2nd edition, then left for a long time and came back in 8th. 3rd has a lot of wonky rules I never heard about. 2nd still my favorite, though :)
@@WisePenguin007 All 3rd Ed should have been was an improvement on the fundamentals laid done by 2nd Ed. They went too far and I haven’t really played since then.
@@WisePenguin007 100%. I got interested in 40K when Rogue trader was the thing (never played it) but I was at Games Day '93 when 2nd ed was released. I was still not into playing but eventually got into it. Loved 2nd ed, although as a Nid and Genestealer Cult player hand to hand was laborious (so that's the main thing I didn't miss too much from 2nd. I guess it depends how much players want to go between playing solid tourney style play or if you just want to chuck some dice on the table and have a good time with friends. I'm happy to play anything nowadays, between kids, family, work and everything else getting any time out is welcome 👍🏻
This was great and such a blast from the past - 3rd edition was my entry point and the only edition I'd played until 9th. The simplicity of the rules is so refreshing and whilst it can be a bit janky (template weapons, units falling back, armour facings) I do miss some of the rules specific to this time. I'd love to see more of these.
With the exception of the reserve rules, I preferred 4th, it brought a lot of the elements of the from 3rds city fight expansion into the main game and really streamlined the process, 2 or 3 minor tweaks and a return to 3rds rules for reserves and deep strikes it would of been pretty much perfect
I can whole heartedly say that 3rd Ed of Warhammer 40k was brilliant. Okay, 2nd Ed. Super expensive, super killy characters that could chomp through whole squads! In 3rd Ed, points costs for models came down for models. The big Characters, still as tough as they came, but didn't chomp entire squads in one go! Okay, when Grey Knights came out, the Chaos players kickec off over the lowering in point costs for Grey Knights! Thing is, 3rd Ed allowed you to field an army! I think 4th tried to condense everything learned from 3rd Ed. Then along comes 5th Ed! "Oh, you can only field 5 or 10 strong squads of Space Marines!" I personally think Gav Thorpe & Alessio Cavatore needed there heads knocking together for that!
Interesting concept for sure and probably extremely nostalgic for those who played back in 3rd ed, unfortunately I started my journey in 5th and as a wee lad it was hard enough to understand the rules let alone remember them. Now that I'm older not a big deal, but I do agree with the consensus that 9th ed is getting too complex, however, with most games (tabletop/virtual) the struggle for "balance" is endless and never obtainable in the least. That is in my opinion, I'm sure someone will argue that x edition of 40k was the most balanced, but balanced in what way and for who? We all remember the days of the Skitarii meta during the latter part of 7th ed, heck Krieg didn't get updated rules for 8th even during the end we used the same Index as we had in the beginning. 8th for example was generally considered a gateway edition and was fairly well received compared to 7ths rules, but even in that edition you had inconsistent matchups and balancing issues, It doesn't help that codices have a gap in releases so your playing at a disadvantage in some cases for matchups. That's of course only the tip of the ice burg when it comes to issues with the TT let alone with the IP, I've gravitated more towards smaller skirmish games given the fact that my regiment has effectively been "Squatted" and I don't feel like buying new miniatures all over again. Much more room for creativity and just overall more fun, Mordheim has been a breath of fresh air and I really look forwards towards each new session.
Great minds. I’m building a Dark Angels army of old metal marines, with the intention to play some 3rd edition games with a friend. Hoping to have it done by Feb and go to Warhammer World.
I’ve never really played 40k for various reasons, but my mom bought me a starter set of some sort with this exact rule book in it and some models. This brings back nostalgia of me just reading it over and over and it giving me an interest in the universe, where I’ve now read countless books and played most of the video games, good and bad.
I only recently got into painting minis and playing 40k with 9th edition, so I came into this expecting it to be bad and overly complex because it's old, but I actually like what I'm seeing here. I especially like models retreating when they break, instead of just vanishing. I always found it a bit odd that routing models just died, it makes more sense for them to run off and potentially still impact the game in some way.
Just chiming in to say that it was a joy to see some 3rd edition play. I've fallen out of 40k as a hobby near the end of 5th edition, but played through 3/4/5. I've been meaning to look for my old 3rd edition rulebook because it was just a brilliant tome overall. Definitely made my day to watch this video, despite the length.
@@MrZauberelefant Cadian, catachan, mordian, Valhallan, tallarn, steel legion, Pretorian, tanith. So far 8 flavours i think vostroyan technically got in there in the last month or or two but shouldn't really be counted. Don't think attilians should be counted as you couldn't run an army of them but still another flavor I suppose.
Man this was awesome! I started playing 40k in 3rd edition, so it was super nice and nostalgic. I'd love to see more. I think that some of the mechanics in 3rd edition make more sense, like taking morale checks on the fly, why would the unit wait to shit their pants and run away? They'd flee in the moment. Also, I think the vehicle armour rules make a lot more sense. It's so much quicker and more stripped down. I find all the strats and rerolls in 8th/9th to be a little frustrating. The all the rerolls particularly I think are a problem, if you miss you miss; that's the iron law of the dice gods. I was wondering if I was just a bit blinkered by having played much more 3rd edition but looking at this, I think it is better for the game to have less rerolls. No command points required to have a good time. If they've added all the strats and rerolls in order to balance the game, it seems to me that it's a counterproductive approach. Surely the more rules and variables you have, the harder it would be to balance. Considering that most players are quite young, it seems more appropriate that the system should be simple and you know what they say, a quick game's a good game. This was great to watch and it would be fantastic to see more. Can we see some Leman Russ tanks? Some large ordenance blast markers and scatter dice? Speaking of 40k nostalgia, do you have any Battle Fleet Gothic models? That's a great game and has great campaign mechanics. I'm sure you could make a great narrative for a BFG campaign in the Acheron sector, with planet side battles woven into it.
One thing I appreciate about you Dave, is that you're willing to take the nostalgia goggles off and do stuff like this. Personally, I don't have an opinion on rulesets yet. I'm planning out armies, etc (and have been for a while, it's an expensive hobby and I'm still hunting for bits I want), so I'm just trying to keep up with whatever the current ed is. I managed to get the 8th ed Marine codex right before 9th landed just to look at models, chapter traits, and stat blocks
me and a mate just played a game of 3rd edition because of the video. we both started playing in 4th. damn was it nice not having to remember all the bloated extra stuff in ninth. thanks for the inspiration
3rd edition is probably the best overall edition of 40k ever made. Basically all that 3rd was, was a streamlining of 2nd edition to make it easier to understand and to categorize things logically so you didn’t need 4 books for a single army. This included simplified movement, wargear, unit types, armor systems, weapons. Then as new editions rolled out new things were added that just made it even harder to understand. Ideally they need to revisit all the rules again and streamline it all over again because of the amount of bloat in 4-9 editions added. Edit: The no pre measuring is kind of a weird holdover from 2nd edition where you couldn’t pre measure so if you fired on a squad out of aim it was taken as just your soldiers missing.
1:30:00 - That's why mekboyz with force fields were worth their weight of gold in 3rd ed, invulns were far far rarer. It's also why I always liked Chaplains over Librarians mostly down to their invuln. I had a Captain from the same model as that force commander, but I concerted him to have a lightning claw instead of the sword, kept the storm bolter though, the 3rd ed codex made having a mastercrafted LC really useful and the storm bolter would get a few kills of chaff on the way in.
9th is as complicated and as competitive as you want to be. The worst thing about this ed is that matched play is inherently pretty competitive, and also offers little variety in missions. You often feel like you are playing the same game over and over if you have a small game group. The best thing about the latest edition is that it can be played a lot faster assuming you know your own rules. You can have a game done and dusted in a couple of hours, which was not the case with range guessing, and arranging squads to be as safe from template weapons. The new edition does take a bit of creativity to make narrative games more fun, which can be a barrier for new players. You need to talk about what you want from a game with your opponent, and make lists, objectives, and a battlefield to fit in with the decisions you made. Some people hate this and live in this weird world of Schrödinger's 40k, where the rules are both completely broken, and simultaneously so well perfected you shouldn't change anything. It can be hard when you are looking for pick-up games with a random person, which is why I think a lot of people are a bit miffed with this edition, but i think it still plays well in smaller gaming groups, where you can change/ignore the overly-competitive elements, and house rule once per game limits for certain super powerful stratagems.
3rd edition was my intro to 40k, and I also still have that same rule book. It's so sad that we've lost so much of the fun in not just the game, but also in the style. In the way that the rules were written, with their tongue-in-cheek quips, and the constant stressing that the idea is to have fun, you can feel the love coming off the pages. As you mentioned in the video, modern 40k reads like legalese--it's cold, flavorless... There's no love there. No passion for what was bring created.
Really enjoyed this, and I don't normally bother with 40K batreps. As a 90's child, 3rd edition was my introduction so perhaps I'm biased, but I find this much easier to follow than the current edition; would love to see more. The criticism levelled at the game for being overly simplified was partly accurate but unreasonable; if they hadn't streamlined the system, there's no way it would have as much of a following today, and could likely have died out in the late 00s (Here's looking at you, 2008). GW made up for it by perpetuating the 2nd edition specialist games/ Bloodbowl, which still sustain the diehard grognards, myself included.
Very interesting Mr sorcerer dave. My favorite edition I think. I may have to give this a go again. I've still got all my old books too which is a bonus. Thanks for showcasing this old edition. More please old bean. Stig.
Love it! Please do more 3rd edition content, my favourite edition by a mile. There is a 3rd Edition Battlescribe repository, I think someone on the facebook group made it. If you unblock links from comments I can post it for you.
3rd ED was a big reactionary change from 2nd, where you had a ton of hideously powerful characters and almost everything moved incredibly fast. In 3rd nearly everything was slow, early characters weren't all that much more dangerous than individual models, and vehicles were incredibly simplified. It also codified the MEQ concept due to how armor saves worked. 3rd had its own cheese, of course. Mainly about stuffing as many special/heavy/melee weapons into squads as possible, and charging out of vehicles. Many of the best armies were things like 5 man las/plas SM squads with a las/plas Razorback, Blood Claws in Rhinos, 3 man infiltrating Chaos SM squads with lascannons, etc. Taking max size squads was almost always a bad idea since the vast majority of a squad's damage came from the specialist weapons.
I think it's very good to look back at older editions and figure out what was good and bad. Because I'm sure we can learn a lot from the mistakes and try not to repeat them. Personally I came in on 8th and enjoyed it a hell of a lot. 9th is half stuff I love and stuff I hate. Can still have a hell of a lot of fun having a game, drinking tea and rolling dice. Laughing at 1s and howling at the times when a grot shanks a Nob
I'm genuinely convinced that one of the main reasons for rules bloat and the l general clutter in modern books is the increase in people using tablets with PDFs on them so they can just quickly search for the full rules without needing a reference table.
This was ace! For me, 1st Ed is my favourite RPG scenario game, 2nd ed for hero shenanigans, 3rd ed for big battles. Great stuff! If i could choose my dream combo of rules it would 3rd ed with first ed movement and 1st ed weapons stats.
The first edition I ever played was 3rd, and I had no trouble teaching it to others. I loved indirect fire weapons because if you knew the dimensions of the table, you could apply a little pythagoras to get a solid guess range distance. Unfortunately, the models in 3rd edition were a wonderful mix of plastic, metal, overpriced forge world, and non-existant.
This was great. I'm only just getting back into the hobby after dropping out during 4th. But 3rd was my most played era. This has made me super keen to build a 3rd ed army. Would love to see more like this.
I started with 4th edition when I began playing 40k in 2004 and never really got into it at the time. I've played 5th, 8th, 9th, and 10th since then and I don't really care for the absolutely enormous amount of rules (and units) most armies have now. I can't keep it all in my head and I often feel exhausted after a game. However, I recently purchased a 3rd edition rulebook after a discussion with a friend who said the terrain and hobby sections were great, and I absolutely fell in love with the game! As someone who prefers games with more narrative flavour and less mental load from rules it ticks all the right boxes for me and I have been trying to get a few games at my local store :) I'm also building up a collection of 3rd edition publications as I love the content in them, the vibrantly painted models, and the dedicated hobby and tactics sections. I know I'm late to the party having only found this video in 2024 but I do hope you'll do more of these as this was an absolute blast to watch :)
Loved this! As someone who's looking for that "Goldilocks zone" of depth and simplicity and can't abide army-building in 8th and 9th, this was refreshing and damn tempting to explore!
Not sure about subsequent editions, but actually neither RT nor 2nd ed featured Ultramarines on the cover (it was Crimson Fists and Blood Angel respectively). So at this stage, nothing unusual about the boys in blue being absent from the promotional material.
Thanks for the informative and entertaining video! As a recent (9th only) 40k player these 'classic' edition videos are SUPER interesting! I'd love to see more, especially a Sisters of Battle army! ⚜
Gotta say, this feels so very familiar. Nicely done! I seriously enjoyed this battle report of 3rd edition (I started in 2nd) and I'd like to see more akin to this.
Sounds like we got into 40k at the exact same time. Introduced with the 3e rulebook, but 4e was right around the corner, and the codexes in the heyday were fantastic: Space Marines, Chaos Space Marines, Necrons - just brilliantly done army books (the 3.5/4e ones) - snippets of lore, sketches of each and every unit, great artwork, and well-organized rules and pretty photography of the studio models. I remember 3e had some serious complexities held-over from 2e, but the foundation was solid, and 4e quickly became my favorite, definitive understanding of "Warhammer 40k." There have been some misses since, but lots of great additions too - true line of sight, running, different bonuses and penalties, but to me, 4th edition is the one to beat. Would love to see a battle report using 4e rules, but this was pretty great, and a nice trip down nostalgia lane. Cheers!
A codex in there could be pretty slim I think. A couple like the Assassins are super-slim little things but even the major armies aren't hard to read through.
Really interesting, things were simpler in this encient time. I think I started with the 5th edition for my part, that was something else ^^ Nice army and table :) and thanks for the video !
3rd edition 40k, 6th edition Fantasy. Those were the best editions.
Those simpler editions combined with GWs attitude towards its games at the time, that it was a fun light hearted hobby where conversions and creating your dudes, and having a good game with some friends was the focus rather than a esports ready ruleset based on an IP full of named characters to be consumed and followed in quarterly updates as you would a Marvel movie series.
Beg to differ. Averaging fire and overwatch rules, three different move types, ambiguity in lore and humour. And not needing to buy a million pounds worth of mini's for a battle. And as for apply common sense, changing characters to have double cost compared to second ed and changing to 'I go you go' in the turn structure would have been more sensical. Removing roll to wound was good, I will admit that.
@@ChristopherSmith-dq2xs how is the humour ambiguous..?
@@Karak-Fak lore. Not the humour
for me 2nd edition is best
3rd edition 40k and 6th edition fantasy was truly the golden age of Warhammer (at least for me), not only in gameplay but the style of sculpts, the lore and the overall esthetics of the entire hobby. Please do more 3rd edition games, really enjoyed this video 👍🏻
You know, its the darndest thing. Its been like 20 years since I played third edition 40k, but as soon as you said "the scenario is cleanse" my brain was like "oh, table quarters, I remember that"
"That's one knackered old rulebook"
Shows a rulebook in better condition than the one I had back in 2003 *during* 3rd Edition
Had to get them spiral bound cuz they fell apart
I love, love, LOVE the 3rd edition rulebook. Everything is presented in disorganized little snippets of lore, and combined with the excellent artwork immersed you into 40k's grimdark like nothing since.
I rebought the 3rd edition book just to have as an artbook and I love it.
The original Realms of Chaos Slaves to Darkness and the lost and the damned is definitely the gold standard though.. best books GW ever produced 👌
ya id love to re look at it. man is it just me or was reading battle reports in a white dwarf more fun then watching them on youtube ? They took good pics and wrote with lore / good writing on how the game went eatch turn.@@born2hula325
I found myself enjoying this even more than your typical 8th or 9th edition videos, mostly because I could actually follow what was going on without having to pause the video and re-listen to understand the weird rules / strategems / codex stuff. For the most part it's just the core rules, the minis, and the dice, which is such a refreshing change of pace!
My thoughts exactly. This video inspired me to go to ebay and get the 3e codex. It looks so much simpler and faster too.
3rd edition is a delight and it has a proper British wargames rulebook that conveys the rules in a narrative fashion making it impossible to look things up later. Glorious.
As someone who got into 40k around the release of 7th Ed, it's neat to see some of the old rules you hear about so often actually being played. There were a good number of times when I thought/said to myself "I wish that was still how it was done" like immediate morale tests and morale not making models just disappear into the ether.
If you liked this you would love OnePageRules as well. They are an amazing group of people with great rule sets for sci fi, fantasy and working on FTL type game as well. Inspired by older 40k stuff. I love it and I love third edition (the best Edition of 40k)
@@yagsipcc287 I’ve actually been a patron of theirs for a while now, but mainly for the 3D print models, and never checked out the rules, but I think I’ll give the rules for GDF a look!
i started in fifth, somehow managed to miss 6th, and was surprised with 7th
@@yagsipcc287 I've been checking OPR after so many people recommended it and I don't see it. It looks like a stripped down and flavorless version of 40k. I'd rather play 3rd.
Third edition 40k was a strpped down and flovorless edition. 4th was better
3rd edition was my favourite (at least in my rose tinted memories). I think a lot was mindset, it was more casual and a fun game to play and not a game all about winning. Also 3ed seems to have the most fun white dwarves - some were wild.
But I was a chaos player then, so it was our era…
It was my favourite too, and the last edition I really played. Dabbled in 4th a bit, but sort of puttered out after that. I still have nearly 4000 points of metal Cadian Imperial Guard Armoured Company kicking around, complete with a few of the really early Forge World pieces like the Hydra Flak tank and the static Basilisk Battery. Used to play in massive 16000+ point team games at the FLGS and had a bit of a reputation for being able to eyeball ranges on the artillery pieces with frightening accuracy. Playing an armoured company alongside a buddy fielding Blood Angels as a vanguard was a... powerful combination.
Was it here they used daemonic instability? I know daemons had some rules that made them finnicky to reliably use.
Ork units still had a lot of chaos but theirs was dependable in a way. You knew ork units would get angry and smash things up.
@@SusCalvin no, chaos demons were just part of chaos space marines, and were regular units. bloodletters were 3+ armor with a 5+ invulnerable, and a power weapon (ignores armor saves) making them more powerful than a space marine. Demon princes were chaos lords with more than 75 points of wargear.
@@KDD0063 I know WF Battles and WHF Roleplay had instability rules for demons. Ghosts and undead had versions of that too.
3rd edition had less special rules attached, especially towards the start.
Third edition seems a lot more suited to narrative battles, which is great! More Oldhammer, please! (It's sad that the terminator didn't even get fire his flamer)
The Rogue Trader/2nd edition were even more like half-RPG games. You could have an independent third player, the ref, who informed the players about environment effects or secret information or controlled third-party/NPC units in the field. In the RT starter mission, the orks get a special objective to search through the building a troop of marines are camping in. There is stashed loot under the bed of the marine officer, but only two ork officers know about this and they ain't sharing with the others. The marines don't even know this objective exists. The ref could control alien animals and aggressive wildlife or units of local gangs or a shapeshifting space vampire hidden in a unit.
The scenarios straight out of the 3rd ed rulebook came in general mission types and then six individual missions for each type. Raiding missions, decisive battle missions etc. I think when there are less moving parts around, it's easier to adjust and pitch in your own. The Assassins codex had some suggestions about assassin-specific missions like pitching a single hidden eversor against a platoon of enemies or having a third player control the assassin on her special, secret mission to kill a certain enemy commander.
I love third edition. Me and my friends restarted playing 3rd recently and are having a blast!
I'm starting to collect the codices to do this myself. Are you still playing 3rd two years later?
A handy trick that players kept up their sleeves in 3rd edition with melee was the player first picked what they'd fight with before determining initiative order; in rare occasions, Terminators would would not use powerfists and just fight with their normal stats instead of hitting last with powerfists.
Seeing the Dreadnaught vs Boss fight reminded me of plying 3rd ed and tar-pitting heroes with 50 man IG conscript and then never failing morale because of the attached commissar.
Swarms we’re great for this as well. Things like Ripper Swarms and Nurglings were great for tying up characters.
3rd Ed 40k was actually very simple. They trimmed out a lot of the fat from 2nd Ed and made the game less about OP characters and more about positioning and tactics. A character with a dummy thicc retinue could be mitigated or removed by specialist troops or your own characters while your troops did all the heavy lifting.
Unless you played with the first Chaos codex... broken HQ and the ability to build armies with completely specialist troops.
Slanesh daemon princes forcing enemy squads out of position, ones who could ignore all armour and invuln saves, or Khornate ones throwing out a possible 10 attacks on the charge, most of the builds could still have points left over for T6 or a 2+ 4/5++
I doublechecked the space marine force commander, and the bloke is still a T4 marine with 3+ power armour. He just has 3 Wounds you need to get through. You could put him in a terminator suit.
With an entourage, I think you could place the models so that the goons were at the front, taking shots for the character. With a few exceptions, units were unable to split fire and always targeted the nearest model first.
@@gregw-j6784 How did daemonic instability work, back then?
@@SusCalvin I don't know if they FAQd for the demon prince to be included or not because the upgrade for your lord gave him stats and made him monstrous but didn't say anything about giving him demon rules. But instability was LD roll and lose wounds for every point failed by
@@gregw-j6784 What caused instability? Losing morale or something?
'BT being represented and not Ultramarines was an outlier'
Well 1st was Crimson Fists and 2nd was Blood Angels
Love this. As someone who got into the hobby in 2nd edition, played most of my 40k in 3rd, and fell out of the hobby in 4th (to eventually come back during 8th edition), this brings back a lot of memories. I remember to how much simpler, quicker, and honestly more fun 3rd was compared to 2nd. I recently bought the 3rd edition rule book off ebay just for the nostalgia but after watching this I'm very tempted to give playing it a go again.
Got into 40k in 3rd edition and left during 5. Nodded along as the rules were mentioned.
Modern editions leave me baffled, but i wanted to restart for some time…
For me it was the complete opposite. 3rd was so bland that it made me drop the hobby for nearly a decade. I think it has a lot to do with what parts of the game you enjoy.
2nd edittion was a beast - the change to 3rd was jarring in its simplicity.
Early 3rd edition in the old days was just quicker, no faff, re-rolls very rare. A lovely fast wargame.
It seems to me that the older editions dont have that many meta/abstracted gameplay elements. Useable points, strategems or things like that, it sticks more to the miniatures and what you do with them on the table. All the extra gamifications take away the immersion of being part of an emerging story of a cool scifi battle and although i get that the reason behind those is that you have more to do while playing the game and not feel bored but id gladly take the older narrative focused approach any time. So please Dave, do more oldhammer videos!
That's what I thought. 9th ed is basically just fluffs and you take the strongest units. People only care about meta list instead of enjoying the cinematic immersion and rich lore about 40K.
So I played in 3rd and it was miserable because even in friendly games your friends played the most broken 3rd edition 800 points Daemon Princes and other bullshit like that.
I played mostly 4th ed. Which was extension on this. You had the psychic phase and a few other things added. Necro was added etc. However, the flavor of the rules were very similar to this. My personal experience of the rule book were much like what he said, the writers basically said "use common sense" i.e "don't be a dork". However, there was a lot of legalese in players even in "for fun games" which took away a lot of the fun. A few of the people I played with started on 3rd ed, and would argue 3rd ed rules against 4th ed rules, and it would sometimes get confusing.
I have not played WH since then, however, I think I would generally prefer a simple set of rules without all of the meta stuff. It seems to me, that if you can keep the game simple, and keep it moving it will be better. If there is any way to reduce the legalese it would be cool, but people will always be people.
@Tight n Nerdy Your very right about stratagems, in old editions if the unit was bad you just couldn't run it unless you wanted it exploded off the field. With stratagems it gives you some possibilities to sneak in some power where otherwise the unit would have sat on the shelf
The biggest difference between then and now to my mind is that the WAAC stuff used to be soemthing only gits would do by exploiting rules that weren't intended to be used that way.
Nowadays, GW is intentionally making the game to appeal to those kinds of people, with each new release having some broken special rule that makes their army the meta flavour of the month, only to be needed in the next FAQ and replaced by that months new releases. It rakes in the cash, but it makes the game a mess of special rules, metagaming and exploitation of FOMO.
I was playing 3rd edition up until the release of the dark vengeance box. Me and my brothers/ mates didn't fancy buying new editions of rules. The rule book is so well worn it is now individual pages in plastic wallets and a binder! It has excellent artwork and stories.
The best way to game is with like minded gamers like this.
The artwork by John Blanche in the 3rd edition Rulebook 'is' 40k to me, it's what my mind conjures when I think of 40k. it's a masterpiece second only to his work on the Mordheim rulebook in which it was his artwork which was used to create the lore, story and characters of Mordheim.
I don't know how many nights I spent as a teenager reading through the 3rd edition rulebook, over and over just absorbing all of the artwork, stories and quotes. But it was a lot. I think the only codex or rulebook I spent more time pouring over was the 2nd 3rd edition Chaos Space Marines codex. Simpler times.
9th or 3rd edition both agree, if a multi-melta so much as looks over you, there's a good chance you're going kaboom as an armored unit.
That's the role a meltagun always had. You run up with it, line up a shot at close range and microwave some fools. Meltaguns in half range (half range of 12, that is) could roll an extra dice to penetrate.
Plasma weapons had range but they always overheated. There was no such nonsense as "safe mode" plasma guns, they were always set to dangerous levels. Plasma guns had double range compared to a melta and cost a few points less to make up for the lesser punch and risk to the user.
If I remember correctly the inability of not splitting fire was reflected by the cost of the heavy weapons being much much cheaper for a tactical squad than the same weapon costed for say a devastator squad
Yeah but how gamey is that? It makes absolute zero sense and breaks immersion
@@hotomatoe664 Not rly, space marines had Tactical Squad rule where you could break in 5man squad with heavy and other with sarg and special weapon. My fren had some DA made that way.
@@zielisawzielony9366 and those bolter marines still had to stand there like dummies and shoot their guns at stuff they couldnt hurt because their heavy wanted to target a tank. Or the missile launcher had to target something squishy instead of kraking a tank.
They lowered the points to sell more hvy weapons at the cost of immersion. But immersion isnt really GWs priority when writing their gamey rules.
@@hotomatoe664 Still not as gamey as 8th, 9th and 10th ed
My least favorite thing about 8th and 9th is the morale systems. I like things falling back, regrouping, sweeping advances etc
3rd edition was my favourite, played the hell out of it and had so much fun
That was incredibly enjoyable- it’s my first introduction to your channel, and one of the few times I’ve sat through a long-form battle report like this. Your narration was just so calming and interesting to listen to, and it made the last hours of my work shift brilliant.
I’d be genuinely interested in seeing more, and I’ve put on notifications for any future uploads you do regardless. Happy I found the channel, and best of luck with the algorithm! :)
I still play 9th edition kinda like this, I use the basic rules you get in starting editions. Makes the game a lot more enjoyable when you don't have to remember 20 different things
3rd is when I first started playing back in the day. When I came back in 8th I was disappointed with how stripped back it all seemed. 9th took that a step further. Things like vehicle armour, scatter dice and all the other random special rules which were in place made the game spazzy and fun. I really want to play the Horus Heresy tabletop game due to a less stripped back rule set but I don't know anyone near me who plays. On the subject of old GW content, they need to bring back Inquisitor.
Loved 3rd, but I really enjoyed 4th. It was missing a few elements but it felt like a more "shooty" edition that was just fun for me.
This was awesome !! Very cinematic. I love the idea of a dreadnought getting crippled to kill the warboss, and the marines having to gun down the rest of the xenos to rescue their honored brother. It's the stuff you read about in the lore
A great idea! I loved late 3rd/early 4th ed. That's when I got started. Can't wait to see how this goes
If I remember right, 1at ed had points for base models and points for individual weapons. It was fun. 3rd ed was great. Fast, fun, and cheap. I stopped playing after 5th rd because spending more money to play something with new rules and books that were out of date by the time the books came out just wasn't appealing. Good on you for playing the good old days.
3rd had points for wargear as well.
@@PerfectTangent 1st was a little different. At first you simply had two lists - one for wargear and one for creatures. This is why some of the old models are things like Space Marines armed with Shuriken Catapults, Orks with Las-Cannon and Eldar with Plasma guns. The only limitations were the intelligence of your troops (the base statline included Ld, Int, Cl and Wp back then. these were all combined into simple Ld for 2nd ed) and the force guidelines in the fluff section. It was possible to field an entire army of independent Gretchin back then, but all your heavy and special weapons had to be carried by characters because the basic grunts were too dumb to be able to use anything more complex than a shotgun.
I'd love to see some more 3rd edition battle reports. In a lot of ways it seems far more enjoyable than 9th and certainly more entertaining to watch.
9th edition is hopeless. 8th edition I really liked because it simplified the game again after the massive rules bloat of 7th.
It's make to massive rules bloat again though plus the missions are so boring to play. Tournament missions don't belong in general play.
This was amazing! Thank you so much for putting all the effort into making this!
I would love to see more Oldhammer videos, you could even slowly work through the editions up to the present day!
I now pretty went back to exclusively playing 4th and 5th edition. They just feel so much more like 40k than 9th has.
same here , I stopped buying rules set after 6th , today it seems too complex
@@the_forbinproject2777 I prefer saying “layered” rather than “complex”.
@@fan9775 - definite difference between the 2 approaches
Complex means there's more than enough
Layered is when rules are presented in stages, and is a lot easier to learn than everything at once
But this massively depends on how the rules are presented - and 9th ed rules presentation is just crap
I like the old armour pen rules. One shot with a lascannon can blow right through a tank if you get lucky. Vehicles don't have a countdown of wounds, they get an armour value you have to beat with the power of the weapon. Rear and side armour is often lower than front armour. Something like a lasgun is incapable of hurting a vehicle no matter how much you plink away. A boltpistol might hurt a light vehicle or the rear end of a tank. But if that single lascannon got lucky, they could knock out a weapon sponson, make the tank immobile or blow it right up. An immobile tank could still operate its weapons.
1st and 2nd edition had a few more results I believe. A hit could penetrate and turn the crew inside to slush but leave the tank itself functional. The crew could find themselves alive in a non-functional vehicle, and then they could hop out and fight on as standard infantry models with pistols.
Ah yes... third edition. Back when it was all about the game and not about supporting a company's fiscal position and corporate empire. I started with the 40K Rogue Trader rulebook, and 3rd edition was the first attempt to streamline the game. As someone said it does play a bit like Grimdark Future does. Smoother and faster, and it actively encouraged rule interpretation and development. However... 40K was about to increase in popularity and with it, more people coming into the hobby who were only wanting to win, rather than play for fun, and oh god the arguments that arose over "but if the rules don't actually SAY so...." which is how we come to have a modern ruleset that has to spell out every single thing. Great video, I'm dusting off my old 40K metal minis...
uh, no, it was definately about suppourting a company's fiscal position.
one quite important thing I remember - when you managed to kill those orks in base contact (1:30.00 or so mark), when it came to them attacking back they didnt have anyone in base contact and therefore no one could attack (as the rule was that friendly models wihtin 1" of a friend in contact could fight). This allowed for some tactical manouvering and intricate placement of models to either get models out of or into actual fighting.
I would say I think that 4th edition was better. It ironed out a lot of the oddities of 3rd but still had the right flavour.
I started playing in the heat of 3rd edition and miss it sorely. This was a blast to watch, makes me want to dust off the old codex myself for a game.
I am waiting for 2nd edition. There is a great nice bible document being put together to make playing easier...
This is definitely a comment designed to confuse future historians
@@SorcererDave I just realized it now ya....
I only played 2nd edition, then left for a long time and came back in 8th. 3rd has a lot of wonky rules I never heard about. 2nd still my favorite, though :)
@@WisePenguin007 All 3rd Ed should have been was an improvement on the fundamentals laid done by 2nd Ed. They went too far and I haven’t really played since then.
@@WisePenguin007 100%. I got interested in 40K when Rogue trader was the thing (never played it) but I was at Games Day '93 when 2nd ed was released. I was still not into playing but eventually got into it. Loved 2nd ed, although as a Nid and Genestealer Cult player hand to hand was laborious (so that's the main thing I didn't miss too much from 2nd.
I guess it depends how much players want to go between playing solid tourney style play or if you just want to chuck some dice on the table and have a good time with friends. I'm happy to play anything nowadays, between kids, family, work and everything else getting any time out is welcome 👍🏻
This was great and such a blast from the past - 3rd edition was my entry point and the only edition I'd played until 9th. The simplicity of the rules is so refreshing and whilst it can be a bit janky (template weapons, units falling back, armour facings) I do miss some of the rules specific to this time. I'd love to see more of these.
"less is more". Best 40k for me. Great job in explaining.
With the exception of the reserve rules, I preferred 4th, it brought a lot of the elements of the from 3rds city fight expansion into the main game and really streamlined the process, 2 or 3 minor tweaks and a return to 3rds rules for reserves and deep strikes it would of been pretty much perfect
I can whole heartedly say that 3rd Ed of Warhammer 40k was brilliant. Okay, 2nd Ed. Super expensive, super killy characters that could chomp through whole squads! In 3rd Ed, points costs for models came down for models. The big Characters, still as tough as they came, but didn't chomp entire squads in one go! Okay, when Grey Knights came out, the Chaos players kickec off over the lowering in point costs for Grey Knights! Thing is, 3rd Ed allowed you to field an army! I think 4th tried to condense everything learned from 3rd Ed. Then along comes 5th Ed! "Oh, you can only field 5 or 10 strong squads of Space Marines!" I personally think Gav Thorpe & Alessio Cavatore needed there heads knocking together for that!
Love the focus on flavour over appeasing tournament grinders!!
I really enjoyed watching this video. 3rd sounds easy to get started into compared to the newer one you have been showing
Interesting concept for sure and probably extremely nostalgic for those who played back in 3rd ed, unfortunately I started my journey in 5th and as a wee lad it was hard enough to understand the rules let alone remember them. Now that I'm older not a big deal, but I do agree with the consensus that 9th ed is getting too complex, however, with most games (tabletop/virtual) the struggle for "balance" is endless and never obtainable in the least. That is in my opinion, I'm sure someone will argue that x edition of 40k was the most balanced, but balanced in what way and for who? We all remember the days of the Skitarii meta during the latter part of 7th ed, heck Krieg didn't get updated rules for 8th even during the end we used the same Index as we had in the beginning. 8th for example was generally considered a gateway edition and was fairly well received compared to 7ths rules, but even in that edition you had inconsistent matchups and balancing issues, It doesn't help that codices have a gap in releases so your playing at a disadvantage in some cases for matchups. That's of course only the tip of the ice burg when it comes to issues with the TT let alone with the IP, I've gravitated more towards smaller skirmish games given the fact that my regiment has effectively been "Squatted" and I don't feel like buying new miniatures all over again. Much more room for creativity and just overall more fun, Mordheim has been a breath of fresh air and I really look forwards towards each new session.
Great minds. I’m building a Dark Angels army of old metal marines, with the intention to play some 3rd edition games with a friend. Hoping to have it done by Feb and go to Warhammer World.
I’ve never really played 40k for various reasons, but my mom bought me a starter set of some sort with this exact rule book in it and some models. This brings back nostalgia of me just reading it over and over and it giving me an interest in the universe, where I’ve now read countless books and played most of the video games, good and bad.
I miss 3rd so much... its where I started and I always think about how vehicles would just go boom turn 1 with a lucky lascannon hit
Yeah, as it should be. In 9th you need something like 4 Lascannons to wittle down a tank.
I only recently got into painting minis and playing 40k with 9th edition, so I came into this expecting it to be bad and overly complex because it's old, but I actually like what I'm seeing here. I especially like models retreating when they break, instead of just vanishing. I always found it a bit odd that routing models just died, it makes more sense for them to run off and potentially still impact the game in some way.
Just chiming in to say that it was a joy to see some 3rd edition play. I've fallen out of 40k as a hobby near the end of 5th edition, but played through 3/4/5. I've been meaning to look for my old 3rd edition rulebook because it was just a brilliant tome overall. Definitely made my day to watch this video, despite the length.
Great content. I'd love to see some more 3rd edition batreps - you've inspired me to get my Mordian Iron Guards back out.
4:30 Imagine that. Back in the day guardsmen infantry squads were cheaper than they are now and the sergeant had a lasgun by default!
and there were 6 different guard regiments available to boot!
@@MrZauberelefant Cadian, catachan, mordian, Valhallan, tallarn, steel legion, Pretorian, tanith. So far 8 flavours i think vostroyan technically got in there in the last month or or two but shouldn't really be counted. Don't think attilians should be counted as you couldn't run an army of them but still another flavor I suppose.
Man this was awesome! I started playing 40k in 3rd edition, so it was super nice and nostalgic. I'd love to see more. I think that some of the mechanics in 3rd edition make more sense, like taking morale checks on the fly, why would the unit wait to shit their pants and run away? They'd flee in the moment. Also, I think the vehicle armour rules make a lot more sense. It's so much quicker and more stripped down. I find all the strats and rerolls in 8th/9th to be a little frustrating. The all the rerolls particularly I think are a problem, if you miss you miss; that's the iron law of the dice gods.
I was wondering if I was just a bit blinkered by having played much more 3rd edition but looking at this, I think it is better for the game to have less rerolls. No command points required to have a good time. If they've added all the strats and rerolls in order to balance the game, it seems to me that it's a counterproductive approach. Surely the more rules and variables you have, the harder it would be to balance. Considering that most players are quite young, it seems more appropriate that the system should be simple and you know what they say, a quick game's a good game.
This was great to watch and it would be fantastic to see more. Can we see some Leman Russ tanks? Some large ordenance blast markers and scatter dice?
Speaking of 40k nostalgia, do you have any Battle Fleet Gothic models? That's a great game and has great campaign mechanics. I'm sure you could make a great narrative for a BFG campaign in the Acheron sector, with planet side battles woven into it.
One thing I appreciate about you Dave, is that you're willing to take the nostalgia goggles off and do stuff like this.
Personally, I don't have an opinion on rulesets yet. I'm planning out armies, etc (and have been for a while, it's an expensive hobby and I'm still hunting for bits I want), so I'm just trying to keep up with whatever the current ed is. I managed to get the 8th ed Marine codex right before 9th landed just to look at models, chapter traits, and stat blocks
Great idea to showcase an old edition, thanks.
In 3rd ed, all the marines would be on the same sized bases as the scouts, including the terminators and the characters.
Man this is taking me back :)
I enjoyed 3rd far more than latter editions . It was simpler . We just played and didnt worry about updates and having that model that helps you win .
I was following this along with my own 3rd edition rulebook, I would actually like playing some games of 3rd edition myself
me and a mate just played a game of 3rd edition because of the video. we both started playing in 4th. damn was it nice not having to remember all the bloated extra stuff in ninth. thanks for the inspiration
3rd edition is probably the best overall edition of 40k ever made. Basically all that 3rd was, was a streamlining of 2nd edition to make it easier to understand and to categorize things logically so you didn’t need 4 books for a single army. This included simplified movement, wargear, unit types, armor systems, weapons. Then as new editions rolled out new things were added that just made it even harder to understand. Ideally they need to revisit all the rules again and streamline it all over again because of the amount of bloat in 4-9 editions added.
Edit: The no pre measuring is kind of a weird holdover from 2nd edition where you couldn’t pre measure so if you fired on a squad out of aim it was taken as just your soldiers missing.
1:30:00 - That's why mekboyz with force fields were worth their weight of gold in 3rd ed, invulns were far far rarer. It's also why I always liked Chaplains over Librarians mostly down to their invuln. I had a Captain from the same model as that force commander, but I concerted him to have a lightning claw instead of the sword, kept the storm bolter though, the 3rd ed codex made having a mastercrafted LC really useful and the storm bolter would get a few kills of chaff on the way in.
9th is as complicated and as competitive as you want to be.
The worst thing about this ed is that matched play is inherently pretty competitive, and also offers little variety in missions. You often feel like you are playing the same game over and over if you have a small game group.
The best thing about the latest edition is that it can be played a lot faster assuming you know your own rules. You can have a game done and dusted in a couple of hours, which was not the case with range guessing, and arranging squads to be as safe from template weapons. The new edition does take a bit of creativity to make narrative games more fun, which can be a barrier for new players. You need to talk about what you want from a game with your opponent, and make lists, objectives, and a battlefield to fit in with the decisions you made. Some people hate this and live in this weird world of Schrödinger's 40k, where the rules are both completely broken, and simultaneously so well perfected you shouldn't change anything.
It can be hard when you are looking for pick-up games with a random person, which is why I think a lot of people are a bit miffed with this edition, but i think it still plays well in smaller gaming groups, where you can change/ignore the overly-competitive elements, and house rule once per game limits for certain super powerful stratagems.
2 biigest gripes about 9th are detachments, and so.... so many splat books that GW promises not to make but do.
The games are a lot longer, bogged down by fiddlely unit rules.
3rd edition was my intro to 40k, and I also still have that same rule book. It's so sad that we've lost so much of the fun in not just the game, but also in the style. In the way that the rules were written, with their tongue-in-cheek quips, and the constant stressing that the idea is to have fun, you can feel the love coming off the pages. As you mentioned in the video, modern 40k reads like legalese--it's cold, flavorless... There's no love there. No passion for what was bring created.
It's a bit like the old minis, not only for this company. Soul vs soulless.
This is great as a group of us here in NZ have started playing 3rd again and we are having alot of fun with it. Would love to see more of these
Yes please more of these! Its exactly what I am interested in atm.
Excellent Report. More more more....
I started with 3rd. Played 4th too. Playing 9th now. It's a totally different beast.
I do miss the old days.
Wish you would do more of this Dave. I think its your best work and you do it better than anyone else!
Great video, liked and subscribed. Please do more 3rd edition battle reports.
Really cool match!! I don't usually watch videos these long but it actually got me engaged.
Really enjoyed this, and I don't normally bother with 40K batreps. As a 90's child, 3rd edition was my introduction so perhaps I'm biased, but I find this much easier to follow than the current edition; would love to see more. The criticism levelled at the game for being overly simplified was partly accurate but unreasonable; if they hadn't streamlined the system, there's no way it would have as much of a following today, and could likely have died out in the late 00s (Here's looking at you, 2008). GW made up for it by perpetuating the 2nd edition specialist games/ Bloodbowl, which still sustain the diehard grognards, myself included.
Very interesting Mr sorcerer dave. My favorite edition I think. I may have to give this a go again. I've still got all my old books too which is a bonus. Thanks for showcasing this old edition. More please old bean.
Stig.
Love it! Please do more 3rd edition content, my favourite edition by a mile. There is a 3rd Edition Battlescribe repository, I think someone on the facebook group made it. If you unblock links from comments I can post it for you.
3rd ED was a big reactionary change from 2nd, where you had a ton of hideously powerful characters and almost everything moved incredibly fast. In 3rd nearly everything was slow, early characters weren't all that much more dangerous than individual models, and vehicles were incredibly simplified. It also codified the MEQ concept due to how armor saves worked.
3rd had its own cheese, of course. Mainly about stuffing as many special/heavy/melee weapons into squads as possible, and charging out of vehicles. Many of the best armies were things like 5 man las/plas SM squads with a las/plas Razorback, Blood Claws in Rhinos, 3 man infiltrating Chaos SM squads with lascannons, etc. Taking max size squads was almost always a bad idea since the vast majority of a squad's damage came from the specialist weapons.
Great battle report. I thoroughly enjoyed seeing a 3rd ed game. Hopefully, you can find some opponents who’d be willing to give it a go.
Thank you for the awesome authentic ork vocalizations. Those were very charming :D
I think it's very good to look back at older editions and figure out what was good and bad.
Because I'm sure we can learn a lot from the mistakes and try not to repeat them.
Personally I came in on 8th and enjoyed it a hell of a lot. 9th is half stuff I love and stuff I hate.
Can still have a hell of a lot of fun having a game, drinking tea and rolling dice. Laughing at 1s and howling at the times when a grot shanks a Nob
definitely keen to watch some more 3rd ed bat reps, especially if you have some of the codexes to expand the armies abit!
Back in my day, units had point values and instead of trading cards you had a card stock terrain
Loved this, thanks so much. It really brought back so many memories. I would love to see more 3rd Ed battle reports if you get an opportunity 👍
I'm genuinely convinced that one of the main reasons for rules bloat and the l general clutter in modern books is the increase in people using tablets with PDFs on them so they can just quickly search for the full rules without needing a reference table.
This was ace!
For me, 1st Ed is my favourite RPG scenario game, 2nd ed for hero shenanigans, 3rd ed for big battles.
Great stuff!
If i could choose my dream combo of rules it would 3rd ed with first ed movement and 1st ed weapons stats.
The first edition I ever played was 3rd, and I had no trouble teaching it to others. I loved indirect fire weapons because if you knew the dimensions of the table, you could apply a little pythagoras to get a solid guess range distance.
Unfortunately, the models in 3rd edition were a wonderful mix of plastic, metal, overpriced forge world, and non-existant.
This was great. I'm only just getting back into the hobby after dropping out during 4th. But 3rd was my most played era.
This has made me super keen to build a 3rd ed army.
Would love to see more like this.
Your work is appreciated. Thank you for making this a wonderful and excellent battle report.
I started with 4th edition when I began playing 40k in 2004 and never really got into it at the time. I've played 5th, 8th, 9th, and 10th since then and I don't really care for the absolutely enormous amount of rules (and units) most armies have now. I can't keep it all in my head and I often feel exhausted after a game. However, I recently purchased a 3rd edition rulebook after a discussion with a friend who said the terrain and hobby sections were great, and I absolutely fell in love with the game! As someone who prefers games with more narrative flavour and less mental load from rules it ticks all the right boxes for me and I have been trying to get a few games at my local store :) I'm also building up a collection of 3rd edition publications as I love the content in them, the vibrantly painted models, and the dedicated hobby and tactics sections. I know I'm late to the party having only found this video in 2024 but I do hope you'll do more of these as this was an absolute blast to watch :)
Thank you for sharing this, SorcererDave! 3rd edition was my first start into playing Warhammer 40k : )
Loved this! As someone who's looking for that "Goldilocks zone" of depth and simplicity and can't abide army-building in 8th and 9th, this was refreshing and damn tempting to explore!
Thanks for this, brought back good memories :) and very refreshing not hearing x/y re-roll every 20 seconds >.
Not sure about subsequent editions, but actually neither RT nor 2nd ed featured Ultramarines on the cover (it was Crimson Fists and Blood Angel respectively). So at this stage, nothing unusual about the boys in blue being absent from the promotional material.
Thanks for the informative and entertaining video! As a recent (9th only) 40k player these 'classic' edition videos are SUPER interesting! I'd love to see more, especially a Sisters of Battle army! ⚜
The “no splitting fire” is also why everyone took minimum squads or did the Combat Squad split for heavy/special weapons.
That's why I like to play old éditions with split fire rules
Man I forgot how much I miss cover saves and how much I hated arguing about what save you get lol
Gotta say, this feels so very familiar. Nicely done!
I seriously enjoyed this battle report of 3rd edition (I started in 2nd) and I'd like to see more akin to this.
Sounds like we got into 40k at the exact same time. Introduced with the 3e rulebook, but 4e was right around the corner, and the codexes in the heyday were fantastic: Space Marines, Chaos Space Marines, Necrons - just brilliantly done army books (the 3.5/4e ones) - snippets of lore, sketches of each and every unit, great artwork, and well-organized rules and pretty photography of the studio models. I remember 3e had some serious complexities held-over from 2e, but the foundation was solid, and 4e quickly became my favorite, definitive understanding of "Warhammer 40k." There have been some misses since, but lots of great additions too - true line of sight, running, different bonuses and penalties, but to me, 4th edition is the one to beat. Would love to see a battle report using 4e rules, but this was pretty great, and a nice trip down nostalgia lane. Cheers!
3rd edition codexes added flavour to each army. Plenty of extra rules yes but never felt like book keeping
A codex in there could be pretty slim I think. A couple like the Assassins are super-slim little things but even the major armies aren't hard to read through.
Power armor surpassing the need for cover, while not logical just *feels* so 40k.
Really interesting, things were simpler in this encient time. I think I started with the 5th edition for my part, that was something else ^^
Nice army and table :) and thanks for the video !
Dam our boy Dave's on a mad one at the moment, can hardly keep up! Only just finished the guard/black legion rep! Let's goooooooo