Questioned: What Must It Have Been Like To Fly In A WWII Daylight Bomber Raid? | DCS
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- Опубліковано 16 чер 2024
- Today we simulate flying in a World War 2 USAAF B-17 daylight bomber raid over France.
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0:00 Overview
2:03 Take Off
8:00 Joining Raid
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#DCSQuestioned #GR #DCSWorld #WWII #WW2 #WorldWar2 #B17 #GRDCSTesting #DCSTesting #DCS #Aviation #AviationGaming #FlightSimulators #Military - Ігри
here s a request, make a scenario where Brazil And The USA Stop Venezuela From Attacking Guyana
ua-cam.com/video/UwQjrXKPhWg/v-deo.html
hi! been following the conflict and apart from wargames scenario, brazil is (as of right now) more inclined into supporting venezuela (not military) than helping guyana, although i personaly disagree with this position (am brazilian). only thing so far is: the armed forces won't let venezuela invade brazil to get into guyana's territory, despite whatever the government wants. and, the govt will "vouch for peace" and mediate as an actor, but to keep "imperialists" and "outsiders" out of the region (which is venezuelan rhetoric).
despite the president of guyana really trusting the brazilian diplomacy (he shouldn't).
if it was bound to happen, it was more likely the UK and the US were the ones to help Guyana with Brazil just protecting it's territory and claiming both parties to come to a ceasefire.
anyway, just to put this out there.
and so far, despite tensions, both parties kinda seem to be on an agreement, so let's hope for the best.
@@grimreapers just found out your channel, really like it
Brazil? de lula -chavez-maduro? pffff
You Brazilians always find a way to insert yourselves even though you’re totally irrelevant.
My uncle made 27 sorties over Germany in WW2 in a B-17 as a tail gunner and ball turret gunner rotating out. I remember him telling me that on one of his flights his friend told him I'll take the ball turret today. His friend was killled on that flight by flak. He also told me that on one flight his whole formation of 12 went down and his plane was the only one to make it back. He said you never knew when it was your time and watching your friends fall out of the sky there is no words for it, all you can do is pray you see parachutes. It's the most helpless feeling knowing there is nothing you can do but just go for the ride.
if u havent watched masters of the air it pretty much sums up what your uncle went trough in the b17 i wont give u spoilers but its really eye opening
Then he is a war criminal for knowingly targeting civilian populations
@@adambane1719 yeah ok buddy,
@@t.r.4496 Oops, meant to address my post to the other guy
@@gandalfgreyhame3425 I was giving him the ok for him thinking it was a war crime. And my uncle wasn't a bombardier anyway. So at no point did he drop a bomb.
Now you have to redo this with all of your players in a walk in freezer, for verisimilitude.
...and with every noisy appliance in the house turned on and the volume on max.
@@badwolftx2139 "WHAT?"
Didn't look like the B17 gunners did much.
@@hanrockabrand95 Exactly!!! 🤣😅
And then drop the bombs way off target 😂
Cap: I dont want the mozzy to have guns because they are playing as b-17’s…
B-17 crew: dont mind our 7-13 gun stations.
I was going to point that out myself. They called it the "Flying Fortress" so...
They lived up to the name of _fliegende Stachelschwein_ - the flying porcupine!
@@matthewcox7985they also called the Short Sunderland that, for about the same reason...10+ machine guns
The original "Flying Porcupine" so named by the Germans was the British Short Sunderland 4-engined flying boat, which started the war with 8 machine guns, and eventually had up to 16 of them! German Bf 110 and Ju 88 fighters found it a very prickly target over the North Sea and N. Atlantic...
To be fair those are turrets the mosquito just has fixed forward guns so he probably did it to keep everyone from acting out the fighter half of the mosquito’s role. They’d have to maneuver and dogfight to get firing solutions the b17’s don’t
A B17 or a Lancaster would be a great mod to add ED folks
It's long overdue really.
Lancaster mod is in the works thankfully - hopefully it is a proof of concept for four engine WW2 bombers and the C130 mod will further prove a 4 engine plane is desired
And, of course, once you have Lancs in the sim, you can reenact all kinds of difficult and dangerous missions. I'm thinking 617 squadron . . .
@@nigeldepledge3790Well that's another level of customisation to have the bouncing bombs... but I'd love to see a Nightfighter version of the Mossie...
@slammerf16 - yes, it would be; but, oddly enough, I wasn't thinking about Operation Chastise this time.
I was thinking about what 617 squadron did in '44 and '45 with Tallboys and Grand Slams.
And older neighbor that I grew up around had been a crew member on a US bomber during WW2, he had very little to say about it, another friend of my father had bailed out of a bomber over Italy and was captured by the Germans, he had even less to say about it. imo these bombing missions were felt, at the time, to be a death sentence, and the people who flew them were as heroic as any medal holder that you can name.
Amen to that
I can't fathom how truly horrifying this would have been. Then to know if you survived, you would do it all over again in a few days.
Sometimes right the next day.
It was insanely terrifying. More bomber crew were killed than the entire causality count for the Marines during the whole war. You pretty much had a 50/50 chance of ever getting home alive.
The quirky weirdness of "Catch 22" suddenly makes a LOT more sense.
I grew up watching Memphis Belle!! I can’t believe the bravery of those guys. Not only to go up and do that, but to do it again and again day after day with similar casualties.. that is legendary bravery. Damn fine flying as always Grim Reapers!!
for those who are familiar with the B-17, could it ditch in the channel if it couldnt make it to base? Are there any records of this happenning, if it ran out of fuel or battle damage?
Is that anything like the series "12 O'Clock High?" Cause I have seen several episodes
Mozzies were used as pathfinders for bomber command, same kind of scenario but at night ,in the lead and up against nightfighters using radar ( ju88 , me110 etc )
The night fighter mozzies were part of 100 Gp, which also included the electronic warfare squadrons. It is a fascinating story how all this came to be.
@@alanholck7995 guy Gibson transferred to pathfinders
Funnily enough, the Pathfinder method the mossies used was invented by Wg Cdr Leonard Cheshire in a 617 sqdn Lancaster! He had to fight hard to get a mossie, once he proved the concept........
I was surprised that the defensive fire wasn't heavier. It seemed that many B-17s weren't firing.
My great-uncle Jacques was a bombardier in the RCAF, and was shot down and died in one of these daylight raids over German-occupied France. Sending un-escorted bombers out in the day was lunacy. Great representation of it in DCS though, I imagine that must have been gut-clenching for anyone wearing VR headgear in this video!
Nice work, thanks for representing what my gruncle went through so long ago.
With your literal stress level and focus, this amazing. AND reading the comments of the True Heros being remembered amd this being soo beautiful to watch: Mad Respect.
"wherever B-17s go to die I imagine"
Historically Belgium and France apparently.
When I listen to 'Matrix', especially when he is in a Mosquito, I'm utterly convinced it's Julius Nicholson from 'The Thick of It'.
And I'm convinced Cap is Miles Jupp.
You saw Masters of the Air right
Unfortunately
Memphis Belle was much better. Masters of air is just CGI average series
When we get the Lancaster Mod when ever that will be you HAVE to do this again but during the night
Cap, since no one else has said it so far. Thank you for your new scoreboard. much easier to see on my tablet. I really appreciate what you guys do and all the different simulations you run. From the ridiculous Star Fighters to the more accurate historical battles.
Had the pleasure of riding in the Nine-O-Nine before it's fatal accident. B-17s. What a perfect design and concept. Love everything about 'um.
They were a big part of the war. But the design seems pretty flawed overall and the concept of daylight precision bombing was a total joke. Without the factories and country churning out planes and men, it would not have worked.
Brilliant stuff!! More WW2 stuff and more B-17s, please!!!!
B-17s had multiple machine gun stations, even in the tail. If you wanted to simulate a B-17 you should have left the guns on. B-17s might not have been as fast and agile as a fighter but they definitely had guns!
B-17 The Flying Fortress !
I think the idea is that the Mozzie’s guns only point forward, which would be too tempting for the players to break formation and chase down enemy fighters. This way they stay with the formation so we get a better taste of what it may have been like to fly with a bomber raid.
The mosquito has only fixed forward facing guns to use them they’d have to break formation and start dogfighting
Absolutely the scariest scenario GR has done when you realize that went on pretty much day after day. My neighbour for about 10 years (he passed) was a Lancaster pilot in WW2 with more than 20 missions flown. I was absolutely dying to ask him about it but knew many veterans have a hard time talking about their war experiences. Your simulation showed just how brutal those missions were.
No any commercial video did effect on me, until this video honestly. :)) I'll buy B-17 tonight. :) Thx!
Thanks Guys... A tribute to the Mighty Eighth.. Morbidly fascinating to watch... All of those flyers were amazing men.. 😪
I like easy questions... FATAL
"It's a little hard to do when you're looking over your shoulder" said John Denver once.
Another youtuber called Fishyy did 6 “To Hell And Back” missions on IL2-1946 that are full missions. Like 4-5 hours long. I watch them often and yea, it takes like half the mission just getting to altitude. Also probly why i love the hour long Grim Reaper vids lol. I wish DCS had something like it cuz going through B17 or Lancaster or B24 startups would be so cool in a more modern game. Oh well. Take what i have for now. Great flying as always 😊
Outstanding flight and video....keep them coming Cap
Standard Luftwaffe fighter tactics was to fly head on into bomber formations. The tremendous closing speed minimized the amount of time spent being shot at and only a limited number of guns could be brought to bear forward by the bombers. Some bombers responded by adding more guns in the nose. One Luftwaffe pilot described it as flying against a barn door doing head on attacks. Those B17 defenses were scary in real life.
I never heard of B17s flying out of Birmingham. Most of their bases were scattered around small towns and villages in East Anglia.
That is where the G model comes from.....with the chin turret of 2 .50s
Seeing those B17s shot up reminded me of Survivorship Bias - essentially the analysis of returning bombers during WW2 looked to reinforce the damaged areas, wings etc - until someone pointed out that the ones that didn't come back were the ones to analyse, which essentially was the undamaged areas on the survivors. It's an interesting read and applicable to many situations in life.
"Put your flak jackets under your butts!"
Someone in a tank did this in Desert Storm in case they strike a mine, with the rest of the crew wondering why. Later, that tank struck a mine.
Was he the driver?
This one was really fun. Love the B17 landing at the end!
Cool! Kinda got my Masters of the Air proto-reenactment.
...went as expected.
My grandfather flew in B-17's during the way, radio operator/side gunner. He didn't speak of it much but did say his pilot sucked, and how he early died many times. For example flak once knocked him out and his mask came off, luckily another crew memeber tended to him and put a new mask on him (up at altitude).
I flew on EAA's B-17 (aluminum overcast) and it was a surreal experience. It truly is make of tissue paper, so bullets and flak would have torn right through it like butter. Must have been terrifying. Such brave aviators!
My grandfather was a ball turret gunner on a B24 in what ended becoming the 15th Air Force in the Mediterranean area of operations. In his diary he said being in that position was like being in a big fish bowl with 2 50 caliber machine guns outside it. He called it the most uncomfortable spot on the plane but it had the best views on it. His first mission was the low level raid of Ploesti Romania and his final one ended up with being a raid on Berlin itself. Out of his crew he was the only one who came home. The rest died when on a mission he missed due to a severe sinus infection their plane took an 88mm round into the bomb bay on the bombing run and detonated. 6k pounds of HE made them and the plane into atoms.
That sin wave cap pointed out at 21:44 looks a lot like what the Shahed drone swarm was doing a while back.
Oh yes I remember.
I knew someone I am guessing was a waist gunner on a B 17. He recalled watching the flak bursts as the bursts climbed up to their altitude. Each blast at a certain altitude was a different color. As the blasts neared their altitude he decided it might be better to get behind the flak shield.
What could possibly go wrong?!?! LOL
(Queue Sam Elliot voice) Here at Hillshire Farms, we craft authentic German sausage liquid. Crafted with care, in the old ways. Send someone a gift of authentic German sausage liquid this holiday season. The gift that says you care. Hillshire Farms authentic German sausage liquid.
Awesome GR's !! Woot!
Did not disappoint!
I think you did a memphis Belle video a couple of years ago, and i was about to literally write the same thing i did then. Things go in circle i guess. Great video as well sir.
great video , well edited :)
Great idea. DU BIST SUPER, CAP!
Half way through my assessment.. thought as soon as I seen this I just have to put everything down and watch haha
my grandfather flew 22 missions over Europe in a B-17 based out of great ashfield. this is an incredible insight into his experience
I've noticed that in DCS it is easier to do a belly landing than a wheeled landing in many aircraft as it seems the landing gear and ground interact like a 5 y/o and a bouncy castle.
Yarp
Pre-video, this is going to be hard, guess Cap will go down first!!!
Superbe vidéo. Félicitations.
My grandad was a fear gunner on Lancasters, completed 57 or 58 sorties. He could never imagine how the American crews coped with daylight ops. He also said that USAAF crewmen he met thought that night ops were insane and hated the thought of being switched to nights (I think it almost happened after Schweinfurt). He also never fired his guns so as not to give away his aircraft's position, despite at times seeing night fighters. He said tbat, on those occasions, if he'd had four .50 cals or a couple of 20mm guns he might have had a go, but firing .303 guns into armoured and heavily armed enemies was just a different way to commit suicide!!
Listening to the Battle of Endor music while watching makes this even cooler
Enjoyed it very much 😊👍✌️🇺🇸
The bomber formation flak does bring an interesting scientific test for you Cap.
At what speed does the old WW2 flak break and it is impossible for them to get a proper lead on the aircraft, and still fire?
Then use that knowledge to set a modern bomber like a B-52 or Tupolev Bear with the german fighters and maybe we get to see some friendly fire incidents with the flak.
"The fighers must be gone because now there's flak" - Not really, axis fighters would often fly through their own flak anyway.
Man I wouldn't mind trying this stuff with you guys in the future!
okey this is super cool done !. i am impressd. i haf started with model build and my next airplain will be the dornier or moskito.
I really enjoyed that! More "Memphis Bell" videos please.
Would be truly nerve-racking, particularly on the way back.
WWII German 88mm flak batteries took 30 seconds to compute target heading and lay guns; eventually the Allies adopted the strategy of bombers changing altitude by 1000ft or compass heading by at least 20° at slightly less than 30 sec. intervals while in flak areas.
17:33 - "Oh my giddy aunt!!" 😅😂🤣
I want Matrix to be an audiobook narrator, such a great voice
Excellent. :-)
Huzzah! Both Simba's Teflon underpants AND the knife hand remain undefeated. (Nothing beats the knife hand. I mastered it in 1987.)
Crazy to think my grandfather flew dozens and dozens of missions during WWII as a B-24 pilot over Europe. Good thing he made it back or I wouldn't be here.
My great grandfather did 51 missions as primarily a tail gunner, sometimes waist gunner. From what I understand he was over Italy and Romania bombing oil fields and whatnot.
Seeing this stuff in large scale is always really cool.
The show “Masters in the Sky” gave much more respect to the bombers of WW2. Both American and British.
my grandad was a navigator in ww2 in mosquitos. he flew as a pathfinder on berlin raids amongst other things. the whole point of unarmed mosquitos was they were fast enough to outrun fighters
Cold and loud.
Pretty immersive! I can't wait for the Microprose games to hit.
As always, GR is out there answering the important questions. Love it
Grandfather was a tail gunner 398th group 600th s based in nuthampstead. Lots of stories(almost none that he himself told as is often the case), but im statistically not here if he served any earlier than the summer of 44. Crashed on takeoff on new years day 45. Was still incredibly dangerous, but he did say by that time, the range of the escorts along w the cost of pilots over the war years meant german fighters were less abundant and didnt always engage if they were seen.
Flak was still incredibly deadly and worse in his mind, you couldnt even feel a little better by being able to shoot back!
Pretty good, interesting and realistic.
Most 109s would get inside the bomber formation and shoot from there cos once inside the formation, bomber gunners would not shoot at them out of fear that they might hit another bomber.
Hard Thrasher's series of episodes about the bombing campaign is fascinating. Apparently, the main aim of some missions was to grind down the Luftwaffe, bombing targets was almost secondary until the German defences were destroyed.
Masters of The Air!!!
Infantry on the ground, ships at sea or planes in the air all have their up and down sides. All are incredibly scary and can leave a man feeling helpless!
Liked this one good vid
I know you guys mainly do DCS but in IL-2 1946 you can fly a multicrew b-17 so if you ever want to do that I can send you some stuff, as always excellent vid!
Can you guys do a P 51 bomber escort vs the Me 262 jets?😊
"Sausage liquid!" 🍺 🍻 😅
Blood sausage?
Black pudding in England
Germans drink the strangest things.
I had a great uncle who was a radio operator on a B-17. He survived but lost a friend on board.
This was pretty fascinating. I'm getting quite into these GR videos!
Can I ask what head/eye tracking you're using, and what settings you're on to keep the video so fluid and smooth?
I like this weird what-if scenario, it's like the RAF wanted to do a trial run of daylight bombing operations.
They did. It was awful, so they moved to night time and told the USAAF a couple of years later that daylight bombing without escorts was suicide. It took a while for the message to sink in.
After string.format and trigger.action.outText, cannons are the most essential debugging tool in DCS.
Question how they model the interior of the B-17 side, Grim Reaperz can fly and be the gunners ?
The scoreboard was ok. Maybe stretch it out a bit so the Mossie doesn't get shifted from the line break. It would also be nice if it tallied blue's bombs, but that's probably a more complicated problem.
B-17's had forward facing cheek guns and a chin turret controlled by the bombardier. It would be fair to let them use any forward facing guns they have. Some B17's had 20mm nose cannons too.
You should another run with Lancasters and liberators against me262 and Me 163 something and fw 190 focke wolf. Good luck cap
@18.40ish, I feel for those poor bastards; having to bail out next to the town you literally just dropped all the bombs on. Ouch, painful days ahead, don’t get caught.
Mid air collisions were a thing actually, quite a few of them. Sometimes bombers would get struck by bombs dropped from the bombers in formation above them. It was distressingly common for bomber command aircraft to have collisions while forming up. To be fair they were operating at night.
My Dad was in the 8th Army Air Force, flew 19 missions and won the Purple Heart. His B-17's name was "D-Day Doll".
The actor James Stewart flew missions in the B17. Eventually he was persuaded to step down from leading his squadron. Against regulations he occasionally flew the brightly painted formation aircraft. If I remember correctly this aircraft was painted with large pink spots. On one mission he took this aircraft to the target, in France, after his squadrons lead plane aborted.
I wouldn't expect a lot of fighters to be shot down on a mission. That was probably exaggerated by the crews, but it seemed like the AI bomber crews were mostly reluctant to fire, even in cases where the 109s were flying right around them.
30:00 The losses were like that in the 8th Air Force, especially against heavy targets, until early 1945. This raid could have been worse, you could gave been going up against the U-boat pens in the Bay of Biscay. Those pens were superbunkers, so even if you hit the target, the damage was minimal and any U-boat left outside was probably going to be written off anyway. And the flak was heavy, as were the fighter units.
You also have the Schweinfurt ball bearing factory raids, the raids over Romanian oil fields, the raid on Munster, and all the other raids that happened during the infamous "Black Week". There is one account of the rear tail gunner that got trapped in the tail section when it was shot off. He rode that thing all the way to the ground. Ground crews were able to rescue him, and his command saw fit to put him back up in the air the very next day.
5:30-ish: "G" model only had 900 f/s climb, so half an hour + to reach 25,000 ft, then another 1/2 to 1 hr to form up.
Good Lord...
I love how Matric takes the crap landing personally
Cool.
"I will write to your mother!" LOL
So your doing a sim of B17s without B17s. Brilliant.
Makes you appreciate how fast a modern fighter jet can get to 40,000 ft. Or even a commercial airliner.
First time I ever flew in an airplane was in a B17. Think I shared it in the discord a long time ago, but the video clips are on my channel
My late father was a B17 pilot in WW2. He said sorties were boring accept for 5 minutes of sheer terror. Pissing yourself was common.