How to Install a Shower Pan Liner
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- Опубліковано 29 сер 2024
- This step-by-step video walks you through the process of how to install a shower pan liner. The Oatey PVC Shower Pan Liner is an economical, flexible liner designed for use in tile showers and other concealed waterproofing applications. It's made of 40 mil thick, flexible PVC sheet and marked in 6 in. increments for easy measuring.
Learn more about the Oatey Shower Pan Liner here: bit.ly/3Soilsq
For step-by-step instructions, check out our project guide: www.oatey.com/resources/project-guides/how-install-shower-pan-liner
As an installer this was a nice video. As an installer I will point out a few observations that are never mentioned in videos. 1. on the back corners you are left with 3 layers of vinyl, do you know what that does. That causes your cement board be be bent inwards at the bottom. Tile doesn't like to bend. The solution is you sawsall a fat channel like 1/4" at the back corners so you can tuck the liner behind the wall instead of folding it on the inside where you need to cement board it. 2. Don't cut the liner to the same size as the drain hold. cut a smaller hole about 1" in the center then pizza cut the rest, just 8 slices. The liner will stretch and bend into the drain hole cavity when applying the bolt on threaded thingy. Creating a much better seal. 3. Although you did a great job on the curb. Wood curbs fail because the wood shrinks leaving air space then the grout cracks then the water gets in then the tiles crack. The only solution is a cement curb then you bury the liner in the cement curb which means the first level of mud needs to be installed then you put in your liner as usual but you build the mud curb at the same time and bury the liner only half way into it tapering it up hill.
I’m always having the issue with the 3 layers of linear on the corners. What do you mean you cut a channel ?
@@peak9985 the 2x4s that make the corner. I make sure they aren’t tight to each other at the bottom 12 inches so I can push the liner back there eliminating the multiple layers of vinyl.
Use concrete for curb or bricks work well also
1/4 board at the bottom 12 inch’s up then 1/2 the rest way up just float the bottom better your tile sticks in the wall at the bottom a little than out cause you can always add more mud
Hey Eddie,
Can you please explain your 3rd point. I didn't understand what you were mentioning there.
Also, what if we install the liner on the curb as shown. Then screw in cement board cut to the curb size. Tile on top of the cement board. Will that be a problem?
I haven't worked with bricks so I wouldn't know how to lay them.
Well, color me ignorant. I have never been involved with the construction phase, even though I've been a plumber for nearly forty years. I never once ran into one of these pan liners, even though I was constantly working on floor drain replacements, toilet flange replacements, and shower drain replacements. This video is like an epiphany. Finally, seeing the correct way to ensure your shower is properly sealed is like a lightning strike to my aged soul. All I can say is that down here in Florida they must be paying off the inspectors to look the other way. I will never accept anything less in one of my homes.
This is a pretty bottom of the barrel waterproofing method but it does in fact do the trick. I prefer a full kerdi waterproof system than this
@@blakedudley4692 when properly installed, like most systems
@@blakedudley4692We’ve discontinued usage of Kerdi, just too many problems. The linear drain failures have become synonymous with Kerdi brand, we’ve now had 3 fail, all within 2 years of install.
Problems w/Ditra heat cables have too become commonplace. We do not use Kerdi board, or ANY foam board for that matter, but I know of several failures, including the Kerdi niches which are made of Kerdi band.
In all cases Schluter has covered the failures, including labor but we are building very high end custom homes, ANY failure is a potential to impact our reputation.
We’ve been primarily using Laticrete’s membrane, linear drains and heat cabling systems. No failures at this time but it’s still quite early. One VERY noticeable difference is the Hydroban membrane is substantially thicker than Kerdi membrane. The Kerdi membrane is not warranted in most steam shower applications, Hydroban is warranted in all steam shower installations. I cannot recall last home we built that did not have at least 1 steam shower thus Hydroban is going to remain our favorite shower water barrier choice until I see a material failure not caused by workmanship
WTH? You’ve serviced shower drains but never seen a pvc liner? This and hot mopping, more a West Coast practice, have been the overwhelming choice of contractors in US for last 50 years.
I’m assuming you only work on cheap tract housing with prefab fiberglass or acrylic shower pans or shower-in-tub combos.
This is my fave method. I never have to sit and worry after the job is done. I prefer concrete or brick curbs tho
My house which was a new build cookie cutter house has an upstairs laundry closet, no waterproofing at all, learned that the hard way. Used this to make the closet waterproofed after taking out the old ruined tile and grout. Works nice
As a single woman who will hire this work out, thank you SO much. Very helpful. Several quotes and opinions. I appreciate the open dialog gentlemen. ☮️
Thanks for the experienced comments. God Bless
A few things to add that are missing in this video that may or may not be obvious:
1. Oatey x-15 sets up in contact with PVC *very* quickly, get your folds figured out and creased before you apply.
2. Oatey x-15 smells eye burningly strong, even with minimal exposure. I believe when I used it my sinuses were dissolved to reveal their freshest layer, even while wearing a mask and trying to keep distance.
3. The curb requires smaller hospital folds to deal with excess material, people may already know this, but it's not explicitly shown in the video.
Would this OATEY pan liner and glue be AQUARIUM SAFE ? can i make an aquarium seal out of these materials seen here ?
I need this
Material.
I
Live in Argentina.thanks!!!
Thanks for this video, helped me a lot 👍👍👍
How thick should the mortar be at the drain under the pan liner? How thick should the mortar layer over the pan liner be? How is the cement board attached to the curb without making holes in the pan liner? Thanks
best method for curb is to use something like kerb perfect. Pre slope underneath liner by code has to have 1/4 inch drop every 1 horizontal foot. Thickness of shower pan after line is typically 1 1/4 inch to 1 1/2 inch
What if the pvc liner has folds in it? How do you flatten it to install it flat?
i usually will trace where my folds go on the wooden joists then use a multitool or sawzall to notch the wood to allow those folds to recess into the wood
The video doesn't show how to cut the corner where the curb is.
Yea I noticed that too
Wow look at that it takes the company to show somebody how to do it right LOL, I would take a oscillating tool with a brand new blade and knocked out those three layered sections in the corners of the wood so it recess is back in the woods so your concrete board or foam board or whatever using does not bulge out at the bottom. And I've never done the double curb system but I would like to add you should pitch your curb because when water gets down on top of that liner, and the two-by-four curb is level the water's going to go one way or the other you wanted to go inside the shower so always pitch the two-by-four ittle bit into the shower, also in my opinion X-15 on top of the bottom three piece drain and underneath is the only place X15 or silicone should be, I know you guys use silicone or whatever I think X-15 work better. I've done some tests. Either is fine. I also use a plastic weep hole protector every single shower even if it's linear drain. And at first I was like he stapling through the top of the curb LOL but then you covered it with the second piece, you actually don't need the second piece you just make the same folds and you do the same cut that you did on top of the curb on the outside and the damn corners, also damn Corners are recommended on the outside and inside so we use for now. I constantly have to come in because I'm a tile guy and fix plumbing guys problems putting silicone on top of the liner and then putting the second piece down and screwing and smashing and smearing silicone and clogging the weep holes, so I have to disassemble it before the silicone dries get it all out make sure it works, flood test excetera and these are professional plumbing companies LOL. Most tile guys know how to hook up a shower drain w a y better than most plumbers. Sorry but it's the truth. Great video...... also in the beginning of the video it shows you screwing the bottom piece down to the wood subfloor but that leaves no room for the pre-slope and then your video skips to the pre-slope being done but that's what the little for divots are for on the bottom of that piece of bottom drain it's a half-inch room to accept half inch concrete for the pre slope
Am a plumber, do concur, shower pans should be done by tile setters.
The video didn’t show how to do the liner corners a the curb. Some people will cut and think the dam corner will seal. I folded and sealed with X15 so as not to compromise the liner at the curb corners
Instead of cutting the screw tops on the drain, cant you just remove the screws and slit the liner into the drain, then glue the collar into the liner? That would literally remove any chance of a leak.
How do you go about tiling the shover curb over the PVC? It is my understanding that mortar will not adhere to the PVC
Still needs another sloped bed of dry pack mortar. This slopes just about to the height of the grate drain. Then tile should sit just above the grate drain.
Why not put felt paper below mortar base? So many people have said to do this so that the wood subfloor wont extract all the moisture from the mortar bed. And that's what i've done. Damnit.
@David Dooley Because the petroleum in the felt paper can react with the liner causing it to crack or become brittle which can lead to leaks.
@@OateyCompany But the mortar pre-slope is between the felt and liner. There's no actual contact between paper/liner.
@David Dooley It can still effect the pan liner, and we would not recommend using the paper.
@@OateyCompany i don’t believe you
David Dooley, you are correct. On wood sub-floor > securely staple 15lb felt > Staple wire lath > Pre-slope 1/4" per ft down to the drain edge
What about the cuts on the corners of the curb
The shower divider where the door sits on that part also gets cement board ?
No, it gets built with dry pack mortar.
I still don’t understand how 3/8” of mortar and tile works with the drain cover sitting so high from the liner
The tile guys float it
@@whydoesyoutubehaveahandlenow you’re right, I eventually just searched the Oatey pan liner technical data and it shows the pre slope shown in this video AND the sloped topping to 3/8” below top of drain. It’s actually annoying that they don’t show the whole process in this video as it add two more days to just the shower floor install. 1 day for pre slope. 1 day for liner and second sloped topping. 1 more day for tile, and even another for grout, and yet another if you want to seal it
@@thefinaldispatch your pan still needs to be at a slope so w.e water enters through the tile and mortar mix and sits on the pan eventually makes its way to the drain entering through the flanges weep holes.
The drain makes up for that
Good video. No woods in curbs ever though. Mud curb only
The purpose of the pan liner is so the water never leaves the pan therefore it's ok to use 3 two by fours for the curb, in fact when you buy the liner it comes with depicted instructions and it showes 3 two by fours
@@centenarioguy no wood in curbs. Because you have to run nails or screws through the liner to attach backer board. Lowest screw in a pan should be at least 3 inches above the curb. Running screws through the liner to make your curb is not professional and it’s a recipe for failure
@@centenarioguy I’m 49 years old. I did my first liner pan at the age of 20 a majority of my business is mud pan showers. There is a right way to do it. And stacking 3 - 2x4’s has been refuted by many industry professionals. I’ve pulled apart too many rotted wood curbs. The correct way is to a mud curb.
@@Apexjasonmorganllc it doesn't matter how many years of experience you have the oatey pan liner is approved in the USA and Canada and it calls for wood curb like I said go to the instructions on their website.
But let's pretend wood isn't on the instructions so what? Mud curb will be waterproof but then what? That's underneath the mud curb? Wood is. Unless you man the house out of concrete having wood there is no problem if you do it right
@@centenarioguy since when does years of experience not matter?
Your liner is inside the mud curb rolled up. It is waterproof because it’s puncture free. Topical waterproofing over the mud curb and you are way more protected than running screws through the liner. Not punching holes vs punching holes when dealing with water. Which is better?
Me in my head (I got this easy) I'm over here sweating bullets taking 3 months finally got the liner on I used recycled styrofoam in my mix with some rock and a little bit of sand an polymer liquid some water more type S it's for an rv so I had too keep it lightweight could have had a taller pan I'm hopeful I can fix that with foam panels more lightweight mix and epoxy will be using magic liquid seal with fish rocks decorated I tryed keeping it all in one piece for the toilet right next too it might have to cut and glue too get a better fit tho
Can you have a seam across the liner? Is a seam a normal application for shower pans?
No
anyway to test that shower pan without having to put in a bunch of water? I'm doing one on the second floor and if it leaks, it will ruin the downstairs ceiling...
Hey, same boat here a few months later. What did you end up doing to test? I'm 99.9% sure it's going to be sealed tight, but if you were able to figure out a test method then it would be awesome if you shared with the class.
@@kadewiedeman3127 I ended up getting a job and not finishing the project 🤣. still sitting there on the to do list. we have 2 other showers in the house which we use instead. My wife wanted the vanity and tile floors done first, I'm almost done with that. I have the cement laid down but hasn't been waterproofed yet. I'm still trying to think of a good way, but i haven't come up with one
@@buzz-86 haha well If I come up with one, I'll come back to you, I'm laying down the liner either tonight or tomorrow.
If rubbing alcohol didn't react with PVC and weaken it that might work, but you also wouldn't be able to get the same amount in there for any reasonable cost.
Hahaha. Only one way to find out lol.
Why not put felt paper before pre slope?
Why?
So now you also Mortar to desired height over the liner ? I’m confused I have a unfinished basement concrete floor I got my shower all
Framed out it will be tile. Can I just lay the liner right on my concrete floor and then Mortor over top? Or does it matter help please
It matters - use mortar to shape the bottom of the liner to drain to the hub and - once you have fastened the liner to the drain hub then you adjust the height of the hub and install another layer of grout/mortar to shape the bottom of the shower floor to drain to the hub, allowing for the tile thickness.
Not mortar, but 4:1 mix. It has much more sand and allows you to form the base. Mortar will slump if the slope is to great, while "drypack" as its called, will not and will hold its slope, like building a sandcastle at the beach.
@@calvinhobbes6118 Is the dry pack a necessary layer if the concrete is already sloped? Can I tile over the waterproof membrane, which is over the sloped concrete?
Works great.
Do you just start tiling over the rubber liner?
No. You put another layer of dry pack mortar (concrete) on top of the liner. When that dries you tile over that.
Ok, help me out. What goes on top of the liner? You couldn’t tile right on top of that could you?
A dry pack mud bed, sloped
Can you put thinsets and tiles directly over the top of the liners?
No, you need at least 2" of 3 of sand and 1 Portland cement mix on top of your liner with a slope of 1/4" per foot.
please tell me you aren't capable of breeding...
@@dannyasia25 The dry pack layer is needed even if the slope is already done in the concrete?
How do you allow for the added thickness of the shower pan in the folded up corners when applying backer board? You have added at least a quarters of an inch thickness to the bottom five inches so when installing backerboard over the pan then the walls bow out at the bottom which really screws with installing the tile. I figure that the bottom the studs need trimming or you will have to add shims to compensate for the added thickness of the pan at the bottom of the wall. And I have yet to see anybody compensate for that. At the corners I have cut into the corner studs and tuck the corner of the pan into the wall thereby eliminating the added thickness of the folded pan in the corner.
Shim the wall board out from the wall
The liner is 0040" thick. When folded, three layers adds up to 0.120" or just under 1/8th". Your wall board will go over that and is 3' wide or 5' long. the slope is acceptable.
How do you attach the tile to the curb? I'm told that thinset won't stick the PVC sheeting.
Durock or equivalent goes overtop. Your thinset will stick to that. However, you have to be alitile methodical how to attach the backer board. No screws on the top or inside. Your best option, in my opinion is use 1/2" durock and cut about 3/8th inch deep at each measurement so it folds without breaking the bond. Screw the outside curb only. The inside would be held in by pressure of the final float and tile. Because the bond is still attached your top could be held in place also.
With that being said my recommendation is use a foam curb 😂 save money and time.
@@thedeathinstinct649 I actually did use a Schluter Kerdi curb, but the pvc doesn't stick to it. I had to nail a strip of the pvc to the curb with some kerdi fix adhesive and then use the pvc contact cement to cement the pvc to the pvc
@@jonathanbell9349
Well if you do a foam curb you should either do a foam curb, sheet membrane or liquid waterproofing.
@@thedeathinstinct649 I'm going to kerdi over the dry pack and tie it into the kerdi curb.
How can install backer board inside the curb?
wire mesh and mortar not cement board
Thank you!
During the leak test @5:00, wouldn't the water slowly drain through the weep holes?
@Thomas Hughes No the 1/4 turn test plug you see plugs the drain below the point of the weep holes.
@@OateyCompany I understand now what you mean. I have an Oatey Gripper that I used for the stub up during the rough-in, but I need the 1/4-turn test plug so I can get below the weep holes. When I go to the Oatey website, I just find a description of the test plug, but I cannot purchase it. Do you know how/where I could buy one? Thank you
We do not sell direct but can refer you to local distributors that carry the test plug. Where are you located?
@@OateyCompany Reading, Pennsylvania
Hi Thomas! To get the test plug (part #42270), contact your local Ferguson and they can place an order through their special order department for shipment.
I have seen dozens of videos that show the drain sitting up on the plywood about .5” with the molded bolt bottoms sitting directly on the plywood. This shows the hole cut just large enough that those bolts drop down allowing only the lip of the drain to sit on top of the plywood. Which one is correct?
@Susan Wingard Our video shows the correct way. A 4.5" diameter hole would allow clearance so that just the lip of the drain sits on the plywood.
@@OateyCompanyyou in fact did the drain incorrectly. You never slam the flange to the subfloor.
I had to watch this video twice, cutting the Oakley pan liner to fit the curb, and then another pan liner on top is not common practice, Idk why this part is shown.
Someone please answer this for me . If whatever wall board you're using isn't going to touch the mortar bed how do you tile over the pvc liner
@ron conti The liner would get run behind the wall board. The PVC liner cannot be tiled directly to it's surface. Please contact technical@oatey.com for a set of our pan liner instructions.
@@OateyCompany you missed what he was asking, Oatey lol. when the tiles come down the wall towards the pan, with the backer board not touching the pan, there will be a void between the tile and the liner where there is no backer board.
You have to use love.
You can glue it
@@mk-jm5tv no, it will have mortar bed when you put the slope in
Does the liner have to be glued to the floor?
Nope
Are you supposed to screw the base of the drain right to the floor? I thought you need to leave a gap for the pre-slope?
They didn’t use a pre slope method here. It looks like there will only be a final slope and then tile on top
You're wrong. Listen to the narrator. He said quarter inch slope to every foot under the liner.
So the osb is sloped?
Saying it and showing it are two different things
@@genollanas2110 at 0:32 it's sloped
Just moved into a new home, and noticed that when I step onto the shower drain it moves down a bit, house still within warranty period, what is the issue? And how should this be fixed? It's a tiled floor.
@A2275 If it is an Oatey drain please reach out to technical@oatey.com. Provide some pictures or a short video showing the issue. The drain should be in bedded in the mortar bed which would not allow it to move.
would it leak where the pan was cut for the flange screws?
@Olivert Saldivia No the screws are inside the silicone applied under the clamping collar. They will act as an additional weep area for water.
@@OateyCompany thank you
Wrong way to install screws .
I wonder who the hell does it this way
Good question, it’s such an old brutalist anachronistic method.
You do not need a pre slope pour, install the liner right on the sub floor
Throw your hands in the air like you just don't care !
Yes you do look up the instructions online
You need to have preeslope because no water collecting all water nedd to the drain right a way ,of water seating after you removed the test valve , you will fail inspection
@centenarioguy37.5 so what keeps water from getting under the pre slope lol
No sir you just put holes in the liner
Step one: throw oatey in garbage
Step two: buy a better shower drain system.
Why must we be subject to this abhorrent soundtrack?
Shut up and do your shower wrong! Lalaaalalaaa buy more Oatey stuff, Congratulations You’re Done!
Would John Denver's Country Roads make you feel better?
One man’s Black Sabbath is another man’s ( insert whatever gobshyte you like) here.
This music slap, Holmes .
Sure it’s not tupac like kamalla enjoys when she is baking but it should be fine as you don’t want to be distracted from the content and f up your project do you? I mean do you think Korn or insane clown posse would be appropriate? Yeah, no.