I don't buy the tss shells due to the price, but absolutely love the regular xr 3" shells in 12 guage because they do pattern tighter for longer range but unfortunately at closer distances you need to be more precise with shot placement. Other than that I really can't say anything negative about them except for the 20 guage loads, in my opinion I feel like they're nerfed down but still work for anything under 45 yards
Yeah, the 20ga LB shells have been a pretty massive failure in my testing. It's hard to argue with the 12ga versions though. They are some great performers at a much cheaper price than these TSS shells
I’ve been using the 3 1/2 inch lead Longbeard XR #5 loads with the Carlson Longbeard choke and I really don’t see the need for these especially at $14 per shell. My shotgun patterns just fine at 40 yards. Like Matt said if they weren’t so expensive I might give them a try but I am very happy with my current set up.
Yep, I've seen great patterns from the LBXR 3.5" shells as well, so there really isn't a need to spend the extra on these if you're gonna be hunting inside of 50 yards
Some hunting buddies swear by TSS; and I think they appreciate the lethality this shot offers out to 100 yards. Which is ironic, because they pride themselves for calling gobblers in close. I own a couple of boxes of Federal TSS; and they pattern decently at 75 yards. I hunt with hand-loaded and roll crimped #2 fine shot. When cleaning a turkey the larger shot is easier to find; and lead shot is easier on teeth than TSS. The gobblers I’ve shot reach the same terminal state as any harvested with TSS; and it’s very satisfying to hunt with shells that I custom load.
TSS is, to my mind useful in that now, a .410, can drop a turkey at 40 yards, which would have been crazy talk back in my day, I'm a Senior Citizen. TSS is a long range, well, long range for a shotgun, tool. It's more for 40+ yard shots, anything closer, is just a waste of money, because Bismuth will do the same, for less cost, so will Lead, if it's even legal where you hunt. #2 shot ? Me too, I use Salt Creek 2-1/2", 1-1/8 oz. Bismuth in 12 gauge, moving at ~1300 fps at a very mild 6100 psi. They're handloaded, by a Human Being, one shell at a time, in Utah. They call it their "Vintage Waterfowl " load. It's also a roll-crimp. Cheers.
Could they be cheaper, absolutely. But it also wouldn't surprise me if they are trying to cater towards the people that feel like they need the most expensive equipment to hunt with, no matter what their situation is
@@matttyreeoutdoorsthat’s how people are these days want the most expensive. Not me wanting a browning 300 short mag after buying the gun and a scope easy $2k but sometimes the more expensive is better but a lot of times cheap is just as good but I also grew up around brownings they’ve never let us down they feel nice too
Local shop has them here but they want $80 a box. I looked on the shelf for them, not expecting the store to have any yet but they did. When I seen the price I just set them down and moved on.
@ Yep that’s the way it goes around here. Dunhams is the absolute worst for it. Walmart for example has 16 gauge Remington ELR shells for $22 and dunhams being barely 5 minutes up the road wants $36 for them.
@@theshotgunscientists These shell would cost me about 8 buck a round to load my own. The 2 3/8oz TSS18 shot will cost you over 7 dollars per shell. Just buying TSS shot is expensive, lead was killing turkeys for ever….
I'm not sure I can shoot tss out of my 835 with the factory choke. As it says lead only on it. That's one hell of a pattern tho. I'm not paying that price for them
Yes, you can run TSS through that factory choke without any issues. They are marked as lead only so people don't run steel shot through it. I've run a ton of TSS through my stock 835 chokes and they have always done great
I don't know, it ain't so much the $70, but it is a 2-3/8 ounce load out of a 12 gauge frame. What's the chamber pressure ? The pattern is fantastic, after all it's a LOT of pellets. Thing is, why beat a 12 gauge to death with 2-3/8 ounce loads ?
That payload isn’t anything too crazy, fiocchi has 2 3/8 ounce lead Turkey loads and a few other brands have over the years too. Pressure isn’t an issue, no manufacturer would sell unsafe ammo knowingly. All manufacturers have their ammo pressure tested. Salt creek ammo has a 2.75 ounce load for 3.5” and I can verify that one is in the high 12,000 psi range which is normal for 3.5”. This is much lighter of a load likely using the same or a very similar powder.
@@theshotgunscientists I agree, and I do business with Salt Creek, but in 3-1/2 inches, it's 10 gauge, not 12. These days ( I'm an old guy ~ 70 years ), what used to be a 20 gauge load, is now a .410 load, but the frames remain the same, a .410 still weighs what it always did, and so on, up the ladder...the loads are heavier. It's not the pressure LIMIT's per se, it's more like why run your Ferrari at 12,000 RPM, just because it can operate there, for a short time, but not for thousands, or even hundred, of miles ? Anyway....I do tune in to you guys on the computer...and am a regular customer at Salt Creek, can't say enough good about either of you.
Pressure definitely wouldn't be an issue. Like others have said, a large manufacturer wouldn't load an unsafe shell intentionally. As for the long term, I would be more concerned about the lifespan of whatever optic you are running if you have one on the gun. I think that would be a failure point long before the actual shotgun is
@@matttyreeoutdoors "optic" ?....I run a side -by-side, a few of them, my " optics " are my eyes. I am though, a retired Electro-Optics (lasers) engineer. Optics have no place on any shotgun, these are short-range tools, even the dedicated "slug-guns" are short range, they're not Weatherby rifles, which are zeroed at 300 yards, new in the box. I ask about chamber pressure not out of fear, but rather I'd just like to know what it is....
That is a great pattern, but TSS is expensive with a big payload. I would stick with Longbeard XR’s if I was shooting a 12 gauge. I shoot 2 3/4 inch 9’s in a 20 gauge and have had no issues.
It’s been said multiple times TSS shines in sub gauges providing equal performance to larger bore guns. In no way are these necessary in a 12 gauge load. I do love TSS in my 20 ga offerings but the cost of those are almost as bad now.
Wow,they are impressive for sure , but ouch $70 a box. They will likely be closer to $100 here in Canada. I will stick to the Kent TK7's and Longbeards.
Yep, they are pretty impressive, but you definitely don't need something this expensive either. The regular Longbeards and the TK7s are both more than good enough to get the job done
I’d point out that most TSS available in stores patterns a hell of a lot worse. It’s more expensive than other top performing shells, but they’re available without shipping so they’re in line with the top of the market. Granted, Herter’s will do just fine at $20 cheaper, but it seems to be a little picky. If these are less finicky, then you may save yourself a choke purchase or you may burn one or two less shells patterning to see what it likes if you have multiple turkey chokes.
You are right about most off the shelf TSS shells being pretty mediocre. I have done a ton of testing with the Herter's shells in 12, 20, and 410 and have never found them to be picky at all. They have always been super impressive no matter what combo we try them through, so they are a great option for a cheaper version of these shells
@@matttyreeoutdoors I think several of the patterns I've seen with herter's have been workable, but not great. While many others have been good to excellent. I think with this much additional shot, you can probably open up to .690-.710 and still be good at 60, while having a lot more leeway if a bird falls in your lap and does somethink loopy at 15 yards. I think the Herter's likely can't check both of those boxes nearly as well.
Well, turkey hunting is the only kind for which I'd consider tungsten shot in the first place, because I've never fired more than one shot in the field per season--and every turkey hunter I know has said the same. So one box could last several seasons. Waterfowl hunting--out of the question. Fun fact: The price per shot for this load is as high or higher than some elephant loads, such as the .458 Lott. Beyond ludicrous.
That is true, but even then we have seen the same performance out of much cheaper TSS shells, as well as a lot of great patterns from much cheaper lead loads. These would absolutely work, but a lot of the cheaper stuff would do just fine for most people as well
That was a nasty pattern! Ain't no way I'd pay for them though!!! I've been thinking about giving turkey hunting a try again as there are now plenty around my parents land and no restrictions on areas you can hunt them, bought a bunch of turkey calls to play with on clearance at walmart even.
Yeah, they definitely were pretty impressive. You absolutely don't need to spend this much for a good turkey shell though. If you want a great TSS load, just get the Herter's shells for 40 something bucks a box, or get a 25 dollar box of lead Longbeard XR shells. Either way, you can't go wrong
TSS = Totally Sterling Silver @ $70 per box. Bonkers. Good performance. But that is far too expensive. Thank you for missing a few good meals to do this test. Silly price.
@matttyreeoutdoors I reckon they will get a lot of people buying out curiosity a box to see what the fuss is but they will only get one box. We are all guilty of that😂
They definitely are good enough to pattern well out at those longer ranges, but the average turkey hunter really doesn't need to spend this kind of money to have a good performing shell
@matttyreeoutdoors it's more about the need than the want to spend the money. I don't see the need....#4 lead patterns good for me. The pellets are easier to find in the meat than a pellet that's on the verge of being microscopic....if I do happen to bite down on a lead pellet it's not as likely to break a tooth as TSS will.
Maybe it will, maybe it won't. I guess we'll see. The Herter's shells are a fantastic cheaper alternative to these though. They are made by Winchester with a lot of the same components and have always been fantastic performers across the board
Not nocking the people that use and buy the tss im guilty of trying some but im not paying 80 bucks for 5 shells ill stick with the orginal long beards and my back up round is the old remington primers but i dont shoot past 45 50 yards i enjoy the hunt if he past them yards he lives and i come back another day
Yeah, you definitely don't need to spend the big bucks on the fancy TSS shells. A classic Longbeard lead shell will do the job just as good out to 50 yards
I watch all of your videos, even if I don’t use that kind of ammo. You do one of the better jobs of reviews than most. Thank you.
Thanks, glad you are enjoying!
I don't buy the tss shells due to the price, but absolutely love the regular xr 3" shells in 12 guage because they do pattern tighter for longer range but unfortunately at closer distances you need to be more precise with shot placement. Other than that I really can't say anything negative about them except for the 20 guage loads, in my opinion I feel like they're nerfed down but still work for anything under 45 yards
Yeah, the 20ga LB shells have been a pretty massive failure in my testing. It's hard to argue with the 12ga versions though. They are some great performers at a much cheaper price than these TSS shells
I’ve been using the 3 1/2 inch lead Longbeard XR #5 loads with the Carlson Longbeard choke and I really don’t see the need for these especially at $14 per shell. My shotgun patterns just fine at 40 yards. Like Matt said if they weren’t so expensive I might give them a try but I am very happy with my current set up.
Yep, I've seen great patterns from the LBXR 3.5" shells as well, so there really isn't a need to spend the extra on these if you're gonna be hunting inside of 50 yards
@@matttyreeoutdoorspaying for the name more than anything
Very impressive, would love to see them make a 20 gauge. Didnt know Herters was made by Winchester.
They do in fact make these in 12, 20, 28, and 410. I don't have a 28ga, but I will be doing tests with them in all the other gauges soon
Very nice. Something to consider.
They definitely seem to be pretty impressive
Are you going to test this shell with 835 and Indian Creek choke?
Yes, that test is on the way soon
Some hunting buddies swear by TSS; and I think they appreciate the lethality this shot offers out to 100 yards. Which is ironic, because they pride themselves for calling gobblers in close. I own a couple of boxes of Federal TSS; and they pattern decently at 75 yards. I hunt with hand-loaded and roll crimped #2 fine shot. When cleaning a turkey the larger shot is easier to find; and lead shot is easier on teeth than TSS. The gobblers I’ve shot reach the same terminal state as any harvested with TSS; and it’s very satisfying to hunt with shells that I custom load.
TSS is, to my mind useful in that now, a .410, can drop a turkey at 40 yards, which would have been crazy talk back in my day, I'm a Senior Citizen.
TSS is a long range, well, long range for a shotgun, tool. It's more for 40+ yard shots, anything closer, is just a waste of money, because Bismuth will do the same, for less cost, so will Lead, if it's even legal where you hunt.
#2 shot ? Me too, I use Salt Creek 2-1/2", 1-1/8 oz. Bismuth in 12 gauge, moving at ~1300 fps at a very mild 6100 psi. They're handloaded, by a Human Being, one shell at a time, in Utah. They call it their "Vintage Waterfowl " load. It's also a roll-crimp.
Cheers.
With that pattern, you are getting your money's worth.
It's definitely a great pattern, but we have seen just as good out of multiple cheaper shells, so how much is it really worth in comparison?
That’s an awesome Pattern for sure.
Yep, it definitely is
IF people don't buy ammo at these prices, prices will drop. Especially if other makers enter in the market.
Could they be cheaper, absolutely. But it also wouldn't surprise me if they are trying to cater towards the people that feel like they need the most expensive equipment to hunt with, no matter what their situation is
Trump is dropping prices for everything
@@matttyreeoutdoorsthat’s how people are these days want the most expensive. Not me wanting a browning 300 short mag after buying the gun and a scope easy $2k but sometimes the more expensive is better but a lot of times cheap is just as good but I also grew up around brownings they’ve never let us down they feel nice too
Local shop has them here but they want $80 a box. I looked on the shelf for them, not expecting the store to have any yet but they did. When I seen the price I just set them down and moved on.
I haven't seen them in any stores around me yet, but those were definitely overpriced compared to retail online
@ Yep that’s the way it goes around here. Dunhams is the absolute worst for it. Walmart for example has 16 gauge Remington ELR shells for $22 and dunhams being barely 5 minutes up the road wants $36 for them.
@@theshotgunscientists
These shell would cost me about 8 buck a round to load my own. The 2 3/8oz TSS18 shot will cost you over 7 dollars per shell. Just buying TSS shot is expensive, lead was killing turkeys for ever….
Impressive!
Yep, can't argue with that pattern
I'm not sure I can shoot tss out of my 835 with the factory choke. As it says lead only on it. That's one hell of a pattern tho. I'm not paying that price for them
Yes, you can run TSS through that factory choke without any issues. They are marked as lead only so people don't run steel shot through it. I've run a ton of TSS through my stock 835 chokes and they have always done great
@matttyreeoutdoors great looking forward to you trying that tss longboard out of your extended factory choke to see how it does
I don't know, it ain't so much the $70, but it is a 2-3/8 ounce load out of a 12 gauge frame. What's the chamber pressure ?
The pattern is fantastic, after all it's a LOT of pellets. Thing is, why beat a 12 gauge to death with 2-3/8 ounce loads ?
That payload isn’t anything too crazy, fiocchi has 2 3/8 ounce lead Turkey loads and a few other brands have over the years too. Pressure isn’t an issue, no manufacturer would sell unsafe ammo knowingly. All manufacturers have their ammo pressure tested. Salt creek ammo has a 2.75 ounce load for 3.5” and I can verify that one is in the high 12,000 psi range which is normal for 3.5”. This is much lighter of a load likely using the same or a very similar powder.
@@theshotgunscientists I agree, and I do business with Salt Creek, but in 3-1/2 inches, it's 10 gauge, not 12. These days ( I'm an old guy ~ 70 years ), what used to be a 20 gauge load, is now a .410 load, but the frames remain the same, a .410 still weighs what it always did, and so on, up the ladder...the loads are heavier.
It's not the pressure LIMIT's per se, it's more like why run your Ferrari at 12,000 RPM, just because it can operate there, for a short time, but not for thousands, or even hundred, of miles ?
Anyway....I do tune in to you guys on the computer...and am a regular customer at Salt Creek, can't say enough good about either of you.
Pressure definitely wouldn't be an issue. Like others have said, a large manufacturer wouldn't load an unsafe shell intentionally. As for the long term, I would be more concerned about the lifespan of whatever optic you are running if you have one on the gun. I think that would be a failure point long before the actual shotgun is
@@matttyreeoutdoors "optic" ?....I run a side -by-side, a few of them, my " optics " are my eyes. I am though, a retired Electro-Optics (lasers) engineer. Optics have no place on any shotgun, these are short-range tools, even the dedicated "slug-guns" are short range, they're not Weatherby rifles, which are zeroed at 300 yards, new in the box.
I ask about chamber pressure not out of fear, but rather I'd just like to know what it is....
Love the video's
Thanks!
66.5g shoulder will left.
I never seen this huge load in 3", many time seen in 3 1/2".
Absolutely powerful shell.
But 14 bucks per round.
They are definitely a very stout load
That is a great pattern, but TSS is expensive with a big payload. I would stick with Longbeard XR’s if I was shooting a 12 gauge. I shoot 2 3/4 inch 9’s in a 20 gauge and have had no issues.
Yeah, a regular old longbeard lead shell is more than good enough in a 12ga. TSS definitely helps in those smaller gauges though
It’s been said multiple times TSS shines in sub gauges providing equal performance to larger bore guns. In no way are these necessary in a 12 gauge load. I do love TSS in my 20 ga offerings but the cost of those are almost as bad now.
Yep, you definitely don't need to run the high end TSS in a 12ga. Like you said, it really shines in those smaller gauges
Wow,they are impressive for sure , but ouch $70 a box. They will likely be closer to $100 here in Canada. I will stick to the Kent TK7's and Longbeards.
Yep, they are pretty impressive, but you definitely don't need something this expensive either. The regular Longbeards and the TK7s are both more than good enough to get the job done
I’d point out that most TSS available in stores patterns a hell of a lot worse. It’s more expensive than other top performing shells, but they’re available without shipping so they’re in line with the top of the market. Granted, Herter’s will do just fine at $20 cheaper, but it seems to be a little picky. If these are less finicky, then you may save yourself a choke purchase or you may burn one or two less shells patterning to see what it likes if you have multiple turkey chokes.
You are right about most off the shelf TSS shells being pretty mediocre. I have done a ton of testing with the Herter's shells in 12, 20, and 410 and have never found them to be picky at all. They have always been super impressive no matter what combo we try them through, so they are a great option for a cheaper version of these shells
@@matttyreeoutdoors I think several of the patterns I've seen with herter's have been workable, but not great. While many others have been good to excellent. I think with this much additional shot, you can probably open up to .690-.710 and still be good at 60, while having a lot more leeway if a bird falls in your lap and does somethink loopy at 15 yards. I think the Herter's likely can't check both of those boxes nearly as well.
Well, turkey hunting is the only kind for which I'd consider tungsten shot in the first place, because I've never fired more than one shot in the field per season--and every turkey hunter I know has said the same. So one box could last several seasons. Waterfowl hunting--out of the question. Fun fact: The price per shot for this load is as high or higher than some elephant loads, such as the .458 Lott. Beyond ludicrous.
That is true, but even then we have seen the same performance out of much cheaper TSS shells, as well as a lot of great patterns from much cheaper lead loads. These would absolutely work, but a lot of the cheaper stuff would do just fine for most people as well
Absolutely filthy pattern @ 40 yards..
Yep, it's definitely pretty impressive
Almost $15 a shot is criminal. I’ll take my chances with the $7.99 box
Yeah, you definitely don't need to spend this kind of money to have a good performing shell
That was a nasty pattern! Ain't no way I'd pay for them though!!! I've been thinking about giving turkey hunting a try again as there are now plenty around my parents land and no restrictions on areas you can hunt them, bought a bunch of turkey calls to play with on clearance at walmart even.
Yeah, they definitely were pretty impressive. You absolutely don't need to spend this much for a good turkey shell though. If you want a great TSS load, just get the Herter's shells for 40 something bucks a box, or get a 25 dollar box of lead Longbeard XR shells. Either way, you can't go wrong
You can buy a cheap Shotgun for the price of 2 boxes of that stuff
Yep, they definitely aren't cheap
TSS = Totally Sterling Silver @ $70 per box. Bonkers. Good performance. But that is far too expensive. Thank you for missing a few good meals to do this test. Silly price.
Haha yep, they definitely aren't a cheap shell, that's for sure
$70usd for a Winchester shotgun shell of which there are only 5 is outrageous.
Yeah, they definitely aren't cheap
@matttyreeoutdoors I reckon they will get a lot of people buying out curiosity a box to see what the fuss is but they will only get one box. We are all guilty of that😂
I would NOT pay over $2 per. At that price they should have a range and takedown up to 70 yards
They definitely are good enough to pattern well out at those longer ranges, but the average turkey hunter really doesn't need to spend this kind of money to have a good performing shell
@@WDL2020 they’re more than capable of 70 yard shots, but yeah I think Winchesters charging a little much for them.
As good as #4 lead Winchester longbeards work the price of the TSS shells would have to plumet in price.
Yeah, if you don't want to spend this kind of money, a classic Longbeard 4, 5, or 6 will do the job just fine
@matttyreeoutdoors it's more about the need than the want to spend the money. I don't see the need....#4 lead patterns good for me. The pellets are easier to find in the meat than a pellet that's on the verge of being microscopic....if I do happen to bite down on a lead pellet it's not as likely to break a tooth as TSS will.
How in the world have hunters killed thousands of turkeys around the country without these shells?? Oh wait, they have. Good video by the way.
Yep, the basic lead shells will work just the same. You definitely don't need anything this fancy or expensive to get the job done
To expensive, hopefully price will come down. I would support them .
Maybe it will, maybe it won't. I guess we'll see. The Herter's shells are a fantastic cheaper alternative to these though. They are made by Winchester with a lot of the same components and have always been fantastic performers across the board
@matttyreeoutdoors Great to know. Thanks.
Not nocking the people that use and buy the tss im guilty of trying some but im not paying 80 bucks for 5 shells ill stick with the orginal long beards and my back up round is the old remington primers but i dont shoot past 45 50 yards i enjoy the hunt if he past them yards he lives and i come back another day
Yeah, you definitely don't need to spend the big bucks on the fancy TSS shells. A classic Longbeard lead shell will do the job just as good out to 50 yards
70 dollars a box for ammo is still the cheapest part of it lol.
I'm going to pass on price alone. Don't get me wrong. That is an awesome pattern. But not $70 awesome.
Yep, they definitely aren't cheap
When it comes to Winchester they make good ammo just expensive I dont like their guns tho
I would not spend $70 for 5 rounds. Hell, no.😮😮😮😢
Yep, they definitely aren't cheap