Sonic Team keeps assigning Jun Senoue to do "classic style" music tracks cause he made some absolute bangers in the Sega Genesis days. The issue is, he didn't arrange and program the tracks on Genesis hardware. He composed them on a keyboard and guitar and sent demo tapes to other members of the audio team who would then program it in. Basically, Jun is a phenomenal composer but just isn't good at arranging and programming classic-style Sonic music. Listen to proper Sega Genesis remixes of his Sonic 4 tracks and you'll see what I mean. When those tracks are played with good instrumentation, they're actually pretty great.
Jun was actually the sound programmer on the Genesis version of 3D Blast The issue seems to be that Jun doesn't actually use a Genesis for new classic-style tracks, instead using a synth preset that doesn't sound great. This is obvious when you look at Forces, where they used an actual Genesis for multiple tracks, though it led to those tracks having a 50Hz tone from mains being present EDIT: While I've seen numerous mentions of Jun being the sound programmer for the Genesis version of 3D Blast, looking into it I'm not actually able to find the original source of this information, so we may want to take that with a decent helping of salt
He didn't do absolute bangers during the Genesis era lol, he's the one who made probably the worst tracks from Sonic 3D blast, but that's all (not that all of his work on the game is bad, but the best tracks in the game weren't his). He is only good at rock music, that's why he made such good stuff for the Modern Sonic era. Outside of that, he's not really a good composer, nor a good arranger. In fact the only bearable tracks he composed in Superstars are those arranged by Tee Lopes.
He actually know how to handle MD/Genesis Synth VERY WELL. He started his sonic team career with Sonic3 and..... KIDS THIS DAYS DOESN'T KNOW ABOUT 3D BLAST FOR GENESIS??? .... Green groove zone anyone? It is easier to Some Higer-Up is Forcing Sonic1 Style Soundfonts Only. Just listen to all those drums. He never used those when he made musics on MD/genesis. And you know, In Japanese company.... Especially if you are a middleman of huge project....You have no creative Freedom. Only few exceptions are exist. Tee Lopes makes Great Music. that is objective Truth. but we need to know he also had ALL the freedom he needed. People just don't understand and makes me have some Boomer moment. Go listen to Sonic 3D Blast's Soundtrack (genesis version) and come back.
I don't know why people think this is a "Genesis soundfont". It's just a regular off the shelf synthesizer. The Genesis itself is capable of sounding much better than this. If he used the YM2612 and SN76489 to make the music for this game, it probably would have been a fucking banger, because he actually knows how to program for those chips.
@@LobotomyTCor y'know... there are other high quality sounding Plug-ins that imitate the sound of the genesis real good, with that he could've easily make his instrument uses consistent, he might've even got a bit creative with it. though i agree, he could've gotten a program like Furnace Tracker to arrange all his genesis songs, or who knows maybe use other sound chips?? that would be awesome...
@@LobotomyTC is the plugin worse sounding than whatever synths he uses though? i know it can't beat the real thing but it probably might be more easier to work with
Jun is so capable, I really don't understand why he keeps trying to use those synths when he is clearly no good with them. I hope Sega isn't forcing him to try but considering the rest of the tracks from the other composers, I already don't think they are
Well... the game files have arranged versions of all of Jun's tracks... so, make your bets. AND vice versa for some of Tee's tracks. Smells like dev clash.
Because if you enjoy something and want to get better you use the thing. It is the basics of learning on and improving a skill. I do think the Synths are good, imo, but they don't fit the game.
@@Buglin_Burger7878 While Jun Senoue was involved with Sonic and Knuckles. He wasn't the only composer involved, there's also Sachio Ogawa and Howard Drossin.
Jun is amazing composer but good lord, he should stop using that Genesis soundfont. I mean, he composed an actual Genesis Sonic game (3D Blast) and that game sounded legendary. So what the hell happened?
I don't know if it also happened with 3D Blast, but the way the music was composed in Sonic 1 & 2 was they take the music the composer made (usually through a cassette tape), and then someone else would take it and tweak it to sound better on the Genesis. Often times what ended-up happening is that the guy who put the music into the Genesis would change the music to sound better than the original recordings. I think Gamehut still has the original demo tape for 3D Blast on their channel, so you can compare between the two.
I mean, SEGA seems somewhat willing to splurge on Sonic music recently, especially with the Sonic Symphony, or even the Sonic Frontiers soundtrack being nearly 7 hours long. I don't think it's that Tee Lopes charges too much where it'd be financially stressful to have him do the whole OST, or even hire him full time. I think it's probably a mixture of a few things: Tee Lopes being tied down with several projects, SEGA really liking to keep Sunoue around , and SEGA also likely just wanting to work with several composers to get the soundtrack done faster. That's just speculation though, I don't really know.
@@dmk_yt I just wish they went with more a Maina approach to the soundtrack rather than trying to mix somewhat modern and the genesis sound font music, nothing wrong with the genesis sound font just fell like that maina style music would flow better i guess
@@OctoMaple I agree 100%, I think an OST closer to Mania would've felt more consistent and memorable than the Superstars OST. I think the soundtrack sounds a bit too inconsistent at times. It's not like Frontiers, where the inconsistency in songs felt more distinguished (e.g. hype electronic music for cyberspace, calm piano music for open world, intense rock music for boss fights), Superstars' soundtrack just kind of hops between styles somewhat randomly. Like, the transition from the select screen theme to the options/game menu music is very jarring. Regardless, I don't think the soundtrack is as bad as people make it out to be, just that the lows stick out so much against the highs.
I don't even hate Jun's synths, per se. My major problems lie in the fact that 1. They are far too abundant. In a soundtrack as varied as Superstars, there are FAR too many in this style 2. Jun's guitar music fucking slaps SO HARD, and I don't understand why he didn't slip at least a couple in here, given that style is his strongsuit and 3. They are TOO SHORT. ESPECIALLY the boss themes. The mini bosses, the final boss, and even the 2 extra final bosses have very forgettable 15 second loops of very basic and forgettable melodies. After fucking FRONTIERS I really thought they'd nailed down that boss themes are super important, but here the blandness and repetition make me wanna pull my hair out. Honestly, if they don't wanna pay Jun to remaster these tracks in an update or something, I'd happily take a Juke Box DLC. Listening to Generations' Big Arm would make nearly any boss tolerable.
@@vividcolorandrichaudio6134 Sonic 2 boss fights are over in a fraction of the time it takes me to do some of these Superstars bosses. Many of these bosses go on for 5-8 minutes on a GOOD playthrough, and I wound up spending hours on a handful of them. The only boss I ever spent that much time with in Sonic 2 is the final boss, and even that boss is short compared to Superstars if you know what you're doing. So while the song length may be similar, the execution is painfully annoying to me.
Jun's songs are all around 30 second loops or in the case of the one boss theme...15 seconds. That right there indicates to me he didn't really care about the work he was creating for this soundtrack especially in comparison to all the other artists who made music. You churn out 15-30 second loops if your heart isn't in it
The funniest part here is that he actually fails on making good classic-like soundtrack. I'm not sure how exactly to explain it, since I'm not a musician or anything like that, but by just comparing soundtrack from Sonic Superstars (specifically that part made by Jun Senoue) and Sonic 4 with soundtrack from classic trilogy, you can notice a huge difference
I KNOW Senoue can still make great music, because Team Sonic Racing is monumental evidence of that. As people say, he needs to stop pandering to a style that isn't his own. I had the fortune of seeing Senoue live in London last month for Sonic Symphony and it was one of the best nights of my life because it was Senoue doing what he does best with his Guitars.
I hate the over-used Mega Drive/Genesis drums of Sonic 4 and Superstars, but the main menu music from this game is the best track. It’s the sole example of them being used appropriately, imo. Only issue is that it’s not long enough and loops too quickly, so it gets repetitive.
They both are great but...man Jun really need to get away from the synth. I don't think synth works for him anymore now, maybe he should stick to the guitar and stuff...
i'm interested to see how the devs will respond to this outrageous debacle over the game's soundtrack, which doesn't happen with Sonic games very often, some people usually have some slight critiques, but this game... it's a very special case
I believe that Jun Sunoue composed a lot of the themes in the game but other musicians, Tee Lopes, etc, arranged those tracks to their own styles. however, when sunoue arranged his own he used the shitty genesis synths. sunoue can compose good stuff but dear lord keep him away from the synths
@@sneezingcactus5681 Yeah, the actually YM2612 synths can give you some REAL nice sounds, with a pretty strong electric guitar impression even by modern standards
Yeah the tonal clash is unreal... I still feel like they need a composer if they do 2d sonic again. _i really. Really don't like how squeaky the sonic 4 soundfont is_ Hell it doesn't even have to be tee lopes, I'd be happy if it was new blood that knew how to write good tunes. As someone who wants to just finish the second campaign hearing the intro to the miniboss theme over and over and over i just want to die inside. Is this what people meant the desperation mode theme of sonic 4 episode 2 is like watching someone crush a cat? ....cause my cats hurt from it
In my opinion. What they should've done was keep Tee Lopes on genisis soundfont and then have Jun Senoe's stuff without. Therefore, we get the best of both.
On one hand I like tracks like the options theme, it sounds like it could have been from Sonic Heroes just in a genesis style. On the other hand, Speed Jungle is just an all around S tier track.
I think what especially makes the Genesis soundfont more frustrating is that they already forego the pixelated aesthetics of the "classic" style by making sprites and assets into 3D models [obviously, because it's cheaper in the long run, but that's fair]. But in making the visuals 3D while sticking with mediocre "retro" music, it makes the experience just feel jarring. Especially considering Sonic has been breaking free from that "retro" sound since CD/3&K.
While Jun Senoue did make some good music for Genesis games, his style is wildly different from the "main" composers on those games--Sakamura for 1 and 2, Tatsuyuki Maeda and friends for 3 & Knuckles. Sonic 1 and 2 had a dreamy J-Pop feel to them, while Sonic 3 & Knuckles leaned more into New Jack Swing (even on tracks Michael Jackson had nothing to do with like Mushroom Hill and Marble Garden). Senoue's style is just straight rock and roll. I think the best example for this is 3D Blast (Gen/MD version) where he split the soundtrack about 50/50 with Maeda. You can very clearly tell which tracks were made by whom. Senoue's tracks have a bouncy, happy, almost silly feeling to them (Green Grove). Maeda makes music a lot more atmospheric and foreboding (Rusty Ruin). I think it doesn't make sense to have Senoue write "classic" sonic music, but not because he's lacking in ability. It's because his style just doesn't mesh with it at all. The only parts of classic sonic that are iconic and made by Senoue were the S3&K bonus stage themes, the continue screen music, and the act complete fanfare.
The songs in this meme aren't even like, awful...they almost have a retro charm to them. But put them next to Tee Lopes' stuff, and it's like a whole different level. Jun's songs here sound like music I'd bob my head to while playing the game. Tee's songs sound like things I'd seek out to jam to while doing other things, like I've done many times with the Sonic Mania soundtrack. Those are the songs that stick with me, not Jun being asked to just use the Genesis soundfont again to try to prey on nostalgia.
I actually like Jun's tracks, (I will protect Press Factory forever) but I do understand that the sound it self isn't the greatest. It's not downright awful, but it can be better.
honestly that was one track I feel he slapped with. I loved how he used that genesis guitar there. He really needed to go hard like that with the rest of his tracks because I feel like that was the only one he went hard with.
Apart from the video. It's funny how Bart can represent a person, who has not grooved and jamed in a looong time, so he's a bit rusty, while Lisa represents a youth, who is just simply vibing to the tunes, much to Bart frustration lol.
Jun is still a treasure, it’s just that he’s not good with genesis like songs so when he’s forced to it really shows. Give that man a morden Sonic game and watch him cook so damn good you’d eat what he made off the ground.
The crazy thing is, there is evidence (including this soundtrack) That both Jun and Tee work very well together. I just wish Jun would stop trying to emulate the Sega Genesis whenever he does classic sonic music. It just doesn't work... Except for press factory zone act 1. Make no mistake, this man is a great musician. But his instrument choices for classic sonic music are quite poor. He's had some bangers on Sonic 3D blast Genesis, but that's because he gave his demos to a soundchip programmer, And they did the rest. And we know that those compositions are bangers, because they show up again in Sonic adventure.
there is no sonic 4 in the Sega Genesis/Sega Megadrive for endless times no matter that im saying it and im saying it again in front of the sonic community there is no sonic 4 in the Sega Genesis/Sega Megadrive there is no sonic 4 in the Sega Genesis/Sega Megadrive there is no sonic 4 in the Sega Genesis/Sega Megadrive there is no sonic 4 in the Sega Genesis/Sega Megadrive there is no flipping sonic 4 in the Sega Genesis/Sega Megadrive
They keep wasting Jun on C-list games and classic sonic when he should be composing for the main games still, the Adventure era soundtracks are yet to be topped 😭 I like Ohtani's work too but come on let them collab on a game again like they did for SA2
@@ikagura Great soundtracks but personally fall slightly below imo. Unfortunately I don’t think Ohtani has produced a banger soundtrack since Colors though.
@@Genesis-XE the vocal themes were mostly good, but the rest was all forgettable. The island themes were all just ambient slow BOTW knockoffs and the cyberspace themes weren’t any more memorable than the stages themselves, just a bunch of electronic tracks that all blend together. Doesn’t hold a candle to the Jun soundtracks or even the old Ohtani soundtracks like Unleashed or Colors.
Okay to Clarify. Jun has been...mid when it comes to Genesis tracks he's made some good ones, but also alot of meh ones. When he does stuff without Genesis sounds he Rocks!!!
It doesn't help that Tee Lopes is a god with video game ost's. Streets of Rage 4, TMNT Shredder's Revenge, every track he's involved in comes out amazing
Jun is a super great Guitarist and created great music for the 3D Sonic era. That being said, his classic Sonic music is just meh. Tee lopes does it better. Sonic 4 tracks will always haunt us.
Jun Senoue is a great composer BUT saying he was the ONLY responsible of making the music in the Genesis era is being ignorant and not giving credit to a lot of other people who worked with him and helped arrange the tracks, again, you have the evidence right in your face with Sonic 4 and now Sonic Superstars, "Jun Senoue, here! do whatever you want" and these is what we got, really short tracks, with monotonous melodies, not saying all of them are bad... but they are "okeish" and not even that, can't even compare to the absolute bangers that we've got on the genesis era.
People in the comments conflating the real MD sounfont with this generic synth shit that Sega (or maybe Jun himself but I kinda doubt it) is intent on using for ""classic-style Sonic music"" is rather upsetting. So is the fact that some seem to downplay Jun's talent as a composer.
To be fair team sonic racings ost is awesome and tee lopes co composed several tracks on superstars that Jun senoue composed but yes the superstars ost is all over the place In quality
Jun is a wonderful musician, the problem is that ever since he showed his skills with Sonic Adventure 1 and 2, SEGA took him as their musical gifted kid and they keep forcing him to compose music with a style and a soundfont he simply does not grasp as well as real instruments. But he's still done very good tracks considering how average Superstars's OST is.
This is almost like the equivalent of Tomoya Ohtani's music style from Unleashed to his style from Forces. It made me wonder why he swapped from amazing fast-paced orchestral tracks, to whatever the hell he was doing with synths in Forces. A lot of the music he did in the Cyberspace levels in Frontiers were major improvements and bops, though. Jun Senoue, on the other hand, has used a Genesis soundfont in at least 4 to 5 games, and has yet to show clear improvement with it. At that point, he really should just stop and stick to what he does best.
I think Ohtani was just trying something new for Forces, and it didn't work out. He has definite strengths and weaknesses as a composer, recall that he tried to imitate Hideki Naganuma's style for Rush Adventure and while it turned out okay, it was pretty mediocre. His strongest work was definitely Unleashed, but I thought Lost World was really solid too
I'm never going to trust Jun with a 2d Sonic game again. The guy can do great things with an actual guitar but don't let him touch synth. I'm honestly baffled how he seemingly hasn't learned in the past decade. Does he even listen to feedback? Surely he saw how Sonic 4's soundtrack was received.
It's true though 😭😭😭 Poor Senoue, He's made some of the BEST sonic music, but nothing's hit in the past decade 😭 He's such a legendary musician and it's like with this soundtrack he's actually retaliating against sega..Let my man pick up a guitar again.. or at least let him use good synths 😭😭
Somebody needs to take the genesis synth away from Jun. I stole that joke from somewhere else but i wholeheartedly believe it, mans needs 200CCs if electric guitar, STAT
Jun should just be assigned to work on the modern games tbh. Tee brings that 90s flavor that was found in pop, hiphop, and R&B at the time that really made the Sonic soundtrack stand out in the 90s. I love Jun, but his stuff in the classic Sonic games just don't have any soul.
I think Jun Senoue's work is still leagues better than the shit we got in Sonic 4 and Origins, but I still think he should've just used regular ass instruments, not the Genesis sound font, especially considering Tee Lopes didn't limit himself to that like Jun did. His tracks just stick out weirdly due to the way he composes Genesis music.
I feel like if Senoue was allowed, or allowed himself, to create the kind of tracks that he's good at making for Classic Sonic, we'd be hearing some good stuff. Just listen to his Mega Man 4 Medley he did for Smash.
Sonic Team keeps assigning Jun Senoue to do "classic style" music tracks cause he made some absolute bangers in the Sega Genesis days. The issue is, he didn't arrange and program the tracks on Genesis hardware. He composed them on a keyboard and guitar and sent demo tapes to other members of the audio team who would then program it in.
Basically, Jun is a phenomenal composer but just isn't good at arranging and programming classic-style Sonic music. Listen to proper Sega Genesis remixes of his Sonic 4 tracks and you'll see what I mean. When those tracks are played with good instrumentation, they're actually pretty great.
Jun was actually the sound programmer on the Genesis version of 3D Blast
The issue seems to be that Jun doesn't actually use a Genesis for new classic-style tracks, instead using a synth preset that doesn't sound great. This is obvious when you look at Forces, where they used an actual Genesis for multiple tracks, though it led to those tracks having a 50Hz tone from mains being present
EDIT: While I've seen numerous mentions of Jun being the sound programmer for the Genesis version of 3D Blast, looking into it I'm not actually able to find the original source of this information, so we may want to take that with a decent helping of salt
He didn't do absolute bangers during the Genesis era lol, he's the one who made probably the worst tracks from Sonic 3D blast, but that's all (not that all of his work on the game is bad, but the best tracks in the game weren't his).
He is only good at rock music, that's why he made such good stuff for the Modern Sonic era. Outside of that, he's not really a good composer, nor a good arranger. In fact the only bearable tracks he composed in Superstars are those arranged by Tee Lopes.
@@Kerrogann Balloon Park, Green Grove and Panic Puppet alone basically disprove what you just said.
He actually know how to handle MD/Genesis Synth VERY WELL. He started his sonic team career with Sonic3 and..... KIDS THIS DAYS DOESN'T KNOW ABOUT 3D BLAST FOR GENESIS??? .... Green groove zone anyone? It is easier to Some Higer-Up is Forcing Sonic1 Style Soundfonts Only. Just listen to all those drums. He never used those when he made musics on MD/genesis. And you know, In Japanese company.... Especially if you are a middleman of huge project....You have no creative Freedom. Only few exceptions are exist. Tee Lopes makes Great Music. that is objective Truth. but we need to know he also had ALL the freedom he needed. People just don't understand and makes me have some Boomer moment. Go listen to Sonic 3D Blast's Soundtrack (genesis version) and come back.
@@FSAPOJakei think he played Saturn version and had car accident and landed with head.
I guess you could say Sonic Superstars ost goes... up and down and all around
Lots of up and no true down if you ask me.
Up and down indeed.... a lot of down for that matter. 😅
I see what you did there
thats what she said
“I understood that reference”
Jun is a godly musician, but God damn do not let this man near a Genesis sound font 😭
I don't know why people think this is a "Genesis soundfont". It's just a regular off the shelf synthesizer. The Genesis itself is capable of sounding much better than this. If he used the YM2612 and SN76489 to make the music for this game, it probably would have been a fucking banger, because he actually knows how to program for those chips.
@@LobotomyTCor y'know... there are other high quality sounding Plug-ins that imitate the sound of the genesis real good, with that he could've easily make his instrument uses consistent, he might've even got a bit creative with it.
though i agree, he could've gotten a program like Furnace Tracker to arrange all his genesis songs, or who knows maybe use other sound chips?? that would be awesome...
Do you know this man made many music on real genesis back then?....
@kaxcommentssomethingREAL the plugins can't beat the real thing, or realtime chip emulation in a tracker like deflemask though.
@@LobotomyTC is the plugin worse sounding than whatever synths he uses though?
i know it can't beat the real thing but it probably might be more easier to work with
For the record, Jun Senoue is a treasure 🙏
More like a relic of the past
@@roadkill_52 your dad probably was a relic of the past ever since he died in the fucking war kiddo knock it off
@@roadkill_52 listen to his remix for sonic colors ultimate, guys still got it . . .
when he's not trying to make genesis midis.
Not as good as ohtani
Genesis is just not his forte, we can all agree on that
Jun is so capable, I really don't understand why he keeps trying to use those synths when he is clearly no good with them. I hope Sega isn't forcing him to try but considering the rest of the tracks from the other composers, I already don't think they are
Well... the game files have arranged versions of all of Jun's tracks... so, make your bets.
AND vice versa for some of Tee's tracks. Smells like dev clash.
@@therealinferno161 Here's a Sponge Bob reference.
I got a load of awards for Tee Lops.
😤😤😤😤😤😤 Jun Senoue says(WHY CAN'T I DO ANYTHING RIGHT??????)
Because if you enjoy something and want to get better you use the thing.
It is the basics of learning on and improving a skill.
I do think the Synths are good, imo, but they don't fit the game.
@@Buglin_Burger7878 While Jun Senoue was involved with Sonic and Knuckles. He wasn't the only composer involved, there's also Sachio Ogawa and Howard Drossin.
@@Buglin_Burger7878Maybe he should practice on something that isn't a full price game.
Jun definitely works best with real instruments.
@@reubensalter8125 Sonic 4, Origins and Superstars disprove that
@@KeltkeGHI think he mean guitars and other similar instruments
@@KeltkeGH Real instruments, a bit more grounded instruments he meant. The only exception being electric guitars
@@KeltkeGH Sonic 4 has good music
That "I was just jamming with you" was unexpectedly adorable.
Jun is amazing composer but good lord, he should stop using that Genesis soundfont. I mean, he composed an actual Genesis Sonic game (3D Blast) and that game sounded legendary. So what the hell happened?
Didn't he compose for the Saturn version though?
@@richardsphd No, that's Richard Jacques.
I don't know if it also happened with 3D Blast, but the way the music was composed in Sonic 1 & 2 was they take the music the composer made (usually through a cassette tape), and then someone else would take it and tweak it to sound better on the Genesis.
Often times what ended-up happening is that the guy who put the music into the Genesis would change the music to sound better than the original recordings.
I think Gamehut still has the original demo tape for 3D Blast on their channel, so you can compare between the two.
Maybe someone should provide him with a decent VST or GEMS ;P
@@thepuzzlemaster64we've heard the original demos for 3D Blast and they sound good
Why sega don't just hire Tee Lopes I mean it's not like he's some big shot musician, he can't be that expensive!
Hes a video game musician, he's expensive. Especially with those bangers i'd charge high for it
Given what happened with Evening Star, I’m sure he’s perfectly fine not being restrained to Sega.
I mean, SEGA seems somewhat willing to splurge on Sonic music recently, especially with the Sonic Symphony, or even the Sonic Frontiers soundtrack being nearly 7 hours long. I don't think it's that Tee Lopes charges too much where it'd be financially stressful to have him do the whole OST, or even hire him full time.
I think it's probably a mixture of a few things: Tee Lopes being tied down with several projects, SEGA really liking to keep Sunoue around , and SEGA also likely just wanting to work with several composers to get the soundtrack done faster. That's just speculation though, I don't really know.
@@dmk_yt I just wish they went with more a Maina approach to the soundtrack rather than trying to mix somewhat modern and the genesis sound font music, nothing wrong with the genesis sound font just fell like that maina style music would flow better i guess
@@OctoMaple I agree 100%, I think an OST closer to Mania would've felt more consistent and memorable than the Superstars OST.
I think the soundtrack sounds a bit too inconsistent at times. It's not like Frontiers, where the inconsistency in songs felt more distinguished (e.g. hype electronic music for cyberspace, calm piano music for open world, intense rock music for boss fights), Superstars' soundtrack just kind of hops between styles somewhat randomly. Like, the transition from the select screen theme to the options/game menu music is very jarring.
Regardless, I don't think the soundtrack is as bad as people make it out to be, just that the lows stick out so much against the highs.
I don't even hate Jun's synths, per se. My major problems lie in the fact that
1. They are far too abundant. In a soundtrack as varied as Superstars, there are FAR too many in this style
2. Jun's guitar music fucking slaps SO HARD, and I don't understand why he didn't slip at least a couple in here, given that style is his strongsuit and
3. They are TOO SHORT. ESPECIALLY the boss themes. The mini bosses, the final boss, and even the 2 extra final bosses have very forgettable 15 second loops of very basic and forgettable melodies. After fucking FRONTIERS I really thought they'd nailed down that boss themes are super important, but here the blandness and repetition make me wanna pull my hair out.
Honestly, if they don't wanna pay Jun to remaster these tracks in an update or something, I'd happily take a Juke Box DLC. Listening to Generations' Big Arm would make nearly any boss tolerable.
Considering how long the bosses are, we'd also get to listen to the song in game for more than 20 seconds
the boss themes are pretty much the same length as in Sonic 1 and 2, so not really an issue.
@@vividcolorandrichaudio6134 Sonic 2 boss fights are over in a fraction of the time it takes me to do some of these Superstars bosses. Many of these bosses go on for 5-8 minutes on a GOOD playthrough, and I wound up spending hours on a handful of them. The only boss I ever spent that much time with in Sonic 2 is the final boss, and even that boss is short compared to Superstars if you know what you're doing. So while the song length may be similar, the execution is painfully annoying to me.
Hot take here, but some of Jun music in this game I do like, and I'm excluding the last act of the game.
Jun's songs are all around 30 second loops or in the case of the one boss theme...15 seconds. That right there indicates to me he didn't really care about the work he was creating for this soundtrack especially in comparison to all the other artists who made music. You churn out 15-30 second loops if your heart isn't in it
They should just focus on making a good soundtrack instead of focusing so much on trying to make it sound like "the classics"
The funniest part here is that he actually fails on making good classic-like soundtrack. I'm not sure how exactly to explain it, since I'm not a musician or anything like that, but by just comparing soundtrack from Sonic Superstars (specifically that part made by Jun Senoue) and Sonic 4 with soundtrack from classic trilogy, you can notice a huge difference
No.
@@roadkill_52 Yes.
it's a classic-style game, so classic-style music is the way to go.
@@JadeJovian mania didn't have to do that, and it sounds great
I KNOW Senoue can still make great music, because Team Sonic Racing is monumental evidence of that. As people say, he needs to stop pandering to a style that isn't his own.
I had the fortune of seeing Senoue live in London last month for Sonic Symphony and it was one of the best nights of my life because it was Senoue doing what he does best with his Guitars.
I really wonder if it was a choice he made or if it was chosen for him.
Either way, I wonder what the point of the decision was.
I hate the over-used Mega Drive/Genesis drums of Sonic 4 and Superstars, but the main menu music from this game is the best track. It’s the sole example of them being used appropriately, imo. Only issue is that it’s not long enough and loops too quickly, so it gets repetitive.
You mean thr S1/S2 drums, since other games use different drums, look no further than Sonic 3 or the Sonic 1 Proto
@@suns3t_t0wnNo, they clearly meant the soundfont used for Sonic 4.
@@tuomasgaming4210 there's no soundfont in Sonic 4, those are VSTs
@@suns3t_t0wn Whatever, it's the same style that is used in Sonic 4. That's what he/she was talking about.
@@suns3t_t0wnSonic 1 Proto is the same samples as the final, just not pitched up
They both are great but...man Jun really need to get away from the synth. I don't think synth works for him anymore now, maybe he should stick to the guitar and stuff...
i'm interested to see how the devs will respond to this outrageous debacle over the game's soundtrack, which doesn't happen with Sonic games very often, some people usually have some slight critiques, but this game... it's a very special case
@@kaxcommentssomethingREALprobably get the wrong idea and never hire Tee Lopes again
wait until you hear that his modern music also uses synths. even the same ones as Sonic 4 in some cases.
He does other really good synth stuff too tho
I believe that Jun Sunoue composed a lot of the themes in the game but other musicians, Tee Lopes, etc, arranged those tracks to their own styles. however, when sunoue arranged his own he used the shitty genesis synths. sunoue can compose good stuff but dear lord keep him away from the synths
Those aren't "Genesis synths". They're just normal modern-day synth presets.
@LobotomyTC yea idrk what else to call them 😭
@@themonke242"sonic 4 synths" would probably be more accurate
@@sneezingcactus5681
Yeah, the actually YM2612 synths can give you some REAL nice sounds, with a pretty strong electric guitar impression even by modern standards
@@themonke242 Here's a Sponge Bob reference.
I got a load of awards for Tee Lops.
😤😤😤😤😤😤 Jun Senoue says(WHY CAN'T I DO ANYTHING RIGHT??????)
It's not Jun's fault he isn't a digital music creator. sega should be using their team to everyone's strengths not weaknesses.
It was Juns idea to use that font and make it "le classic", hes a lead composer
@@pushkins26 where did you come across that info? do you have an interview to share?
Amd they did. Many of them cooked
Jun senoue does great music for modern games but for the classics doesn't sound good
When ALMOST every other Sonic game has better music than Sonic Superstars, you know you did a TERRIBLE job.
Ok u give the classic music to Tee lopes, and tomoyama otani and Jun senoue do the modern music, cuz Jun does magic with modern sonic music.
Also Rintaro Soma and Toriena and every other composer
@@reubensalter8125 Agreed
Yeah the tonal clash is unreal...
I still feel like they need a composer if they do 2d sonic again.
_i really. Really don't like how squeaky the sonic 4 soundfont is_
Hell it doesn't even have to be tee lopes, I'd be happy if it was new blood that knew how to write good tunes.
As someone who wants to just finish the second campaign hearing the intro to the miniboss theme over and over and over i just want to die inside.
Is this what people meant the desperation mode theme of sonic 4 episode 2 is like watching someone crush a cat?
....cause my cats hurt from it
I fuck with Jun but could he like take notes from Knuckles Caotix please??
How did you find a thumbnail so specific and fitting?
I'm surprised the Japanese still keep trying with Sonic when the westerners have far and above outdone them in every front.
Like jun BE YOU STOP TRYING TO COPY THE OLD STUFF YOUR MODERN MUSIC IS SO GOOD
In my opinion. What they should've done was keep Tee Lopes on genisis soundfont and then have Jun Senoe's stuff without. Therefore, we get the best of both.
It's synth. Soundfont isn't the correct term.
It could work.
Grammar
@@A2Adam "Soundfont" is the term for a specific set of sounds used in Synth; they are not mutually exclusive.
@@CoralCopperHead
"soundfont" is a file format.
On one hand I like tracks like the options theme, it sounds like it could have been from Sonic Heroes just in a genesis style. On the other hand, Speed Jungle is just an all around S tier track.
Give jun a guitar,not a synth sega
He is good with synth listen to casino park
Twinke park and
Jun is a fantastic composer, he just needs to stay away from that fucking Genesis synth
I think Senoue's compositions wouldn't be that bad if he didn't use agonizing cats as an instrument.
Jun knows how to compose music but he sucks at programing the music.
To be honest, Tee lopes' is way better than Jun Senoue's
What's his fascination with that instrument? It didn't work in Sonic 4 Ep:1 & 2, it's not going to work 13-11 years later
I don't understand what opinion I'm supposed to have here, but I like the music
Am I REALLY the only one who likes all of the soundtrack? Not only that, but Superstars as a whole
Well, looks like there's two of us at least
three@@fieratheproud
Does that mean that you like all of the soundtrack despite what people say about the emulatd classic style of Jun's tracks
sky temple unironically bangs ngl@@CCShakeCatYT
Ok but jokes aside I genuinely really like golden capital act 1
I think what especially makes the Genesis soundfont more frustrating is that they already forego the pixelated aesthetics of the "classic" style by making sprites and assets into 3D models [obviously, because it's cheaper in the long run, but that's fair].
But in making the visuals 3D while sticking with mediocre "retro" music, it makes the experience just feel jarring. Especially considering Sonic has been breaking free from that "retro" sound since CD/3&K.
While Jun Senoue did make some good music for Genesis games, his style is wildly different from the "main" composers on those games--Sakamura for 1 and 2, Tatsuyuki Maeda and friends for 3 & Knuckles.
Sonic 1 and 2 had a dreamy J-Pop feel to them, while Sonic 3 & Knuckles leaned more into New Jack Swing (even on tracks Michael Jackson had nothing to do with like Mushroom Hill and Marble Garden). Senoue's style is just straight rock and roll.
I think the best example for this is 3D Blast (Gen/MD version) where he split the soundtrack about 50/50 with Maeda. You can very clearly tell which tracks were made by whom. Senoue's tracks have a bouncy, happy, almost silly feeling to them (Green Grove). Maeda makes music a lot more atmospheric and foreboding (Rusty Ruin).
I think it doesn't make sense to have Senoue write "classic" sonic music, but not because he's lacking in ability. It's because his style just doesn't mesh with it at all. The only parts of classic sonic that are iconic and made by Senoue were the S3&K bonus stage themes, the continue screen music, and the act complete fanfare.
I mean panic puppet act 1 was more get ready battle then bouncy
One ive seen his style has changed slot since s&k3
I love Jun Senoue, but I don't think he knows how to write Classic Sonic music.
The songs in this meme aren't even like, awful...they almost have a retro charm to them. But put them next to Tee Lopes' stuff, and it's like a whole different level. Jun's songs here sound like music I'd bob my head to while playing the game. Tee's songs sound like things I'd seek out to jam to while doing other things, like I've done many times with the Sonic Mania soundtrack. Those are the songs that stick with me, not Jun being asked to just use the Genesis soundfont again to try to prey on nostalgia.
He isn’t using a soundfont, he’s using a Korg Triton synth
@@robotnikrules7775
Not Korg Triton either, that was only used in Episode I, but close enough.
Well it sounds polly wolly crappy
I actually like Jun's tracks, (I will protect Press Factory forever) but I do understand that the sound it self isn't the greatest. It's not downright awful, but it can be better.
I think most of the level themes in this game fucking slap!! The boss themes could go harder but I was jamming through them acts!
@@Marku912 Yeah! Finally, somebody who can appreciate Jun's Genesis tracks! 🤝
honestly that was one track I feel he slapped with. I loved how he used that genesis guitar there. He really needed to go hard like that with the rest of his tracks because I feel like that was the only one he went hard with.
Jun is trying waayyyy to hard to sound genesis-sy. Whereas Tee Lopes makes Classic Sonic Music that sounds like the Sega CD, 32X and Saturn.
Apart from the video.
It's funny how Bart can represent a person, who has not grooved and jamed in a looong time, so he's a bit rusty, while Lisa represents a youth, who is just simply vibing to the tunes, much to Bart frustration lol.
Jun is still a treasure, it’s just that he’s not good with genesis like songs so when he’s forced to it really shows. Give that man a morden Sonic game and watch him cook so damn good you’d eat what he made off the ground.
3D Blast?
3D Blast?
The crazy thing is, there is evidence (including this soundtrack) That both Jun and Tee work very well together. I just wish Jun would stop trying to emulate the Sega Genesis whenever he does classic sonic music. It just doesn't work... Except for press factory zone act 1.
Make no mistake, this man is a great musician. But his instrument choices for classic sonic music are quite poor. He's had some bangers on Sonic 3D blast Genesis, but that's because he gave his demos to a soundchip programmer, And they did the rest. And we know that those compositions are bangers, because they show up again in Sonic adventure.
They’re both good, but Tee Lopes is better!!
This is hands down my favourite meme of this 😂
Jun Senoue making classic song is like an Irish trying to do R&B
Jun Senoue is giving Sonic 4 vibes again
there is no sonic 4 in the Sega Genesis/Sega Megadrive for endless times no matter that im saying it and im saying it again in front of the sonic community there is no sonic 4 in the Sega Genesis/Sega Megadrive
there is no sonic 4 in the Sega Genesis/Sega Megadrive
there is no sonic 4 in the Sega Genesis/Sega Megadrive
there is no sonic 4 in the Sega Genesis/Sega Megadrive
there is no flipping sonic 4 in the Sega Genesis/Sega Megadrive
Missed opportunity to not use the saxophone parts in Mirage Saloon Act 2 and Metallic Madness Act 2
They keep wasting Jun on C-list games and classic sonic when he should be composing for the main games still, the Adventure era soundtracks are yet to be topped 😭 I like Ohtani's work too but come on let them collab on a game again like they did for SA2
Sorry but Unleashed, Colours and Generations OST are equivalent of the Adventure era.
@@ikagura Great soundtracks but personally fall slightly below imo. Unfortunately I don’t think Ohtani has produced a banger soundtrack since Colors though.
@@GregCubedYou didn’t like Frontiers soundtrack? That OST had a lot of diversity with Cyberspace, Island themes and the vocal themes
@@Genesis-XE the vocal themes were mostly good, but the rest was all forgettable. The island themes were all just ambient slow BOTW knockoffs and the cyberspace themes weren’t any more memorable than the stages themselves, just a bunch of electronic tracks that all blend together. Doesn’t hold a candle to the Jun soundtracks or even the old Ohtani soundtracks like Unleashed or Colors.
the music quality of this game is so mixed like you have absolute bangers like speed jungle act 1 then you get to a boss fight
Jun Senoue did pull off the guitar in Sonic Superstars though, specifically in Egg Fortress
That wasn't his track
they are, very clearly, not live guitars.
its not him thats the problem, its the fact hes being forced to make music in a style hes not known for
Okay to Clarify.
Jun has been...mid when it comes to Genesis tracks he's made some good ones, but also alot of meh ones.
When he does stuff without Genesis sounds he Rocks!!!
Guys, be nice to Jun. He’s trying his best man. So what if he’s bad with Mega Drive sound font? He is trying and Tee is trying to help him!
B-tier soundtrack
0:18 sonic 4 epiosde 3 leaks
Jun Senoue is good but he CANT GENESIS SOUNDFONT, you know its him when you hear the drums.
It doesn't help that Tee Lopes is a god with video game ost's. Streets of Rage 4, TMNT Shredder's Revenge, every track he's involved in comes out amazing
Jun senoue fell off
I hope you know the first song you used to demonstrate ’tee lopes’ was actually made by Jun Senoue!!!
Yeah and later arranged by Tee Lopes
Oh yes the music hits
I'll say this again for the hundreth time.
GIVE.👏CLASSIC.👏SONIC.👏 GUITARS.👏 AGAIN. 👏PLEASE.
Senoue should stick to doing music for Modern Sonic. His songs fit much better there than in the Classic games.
These two are better together ironically. The invincibility theme is the best example.
Jun is a super great Guitarist and created great music for the 3D Sonic era. That being said, his classic Sonic music is just meh. Tee lopes does it better. Sonic 4 tracks will always haunt us.
Jun Senoue is a great composer BUT saying he was the ONLY responsible of making the music in the Genesis era is being ignorant and not giving credit to a lot of other people who worked with him and helped arrange the tracks, again, you have the evidence right in your face with Sonic 4 and now Sonic Superstars, "Jun Senoue, here! do whatever you want" and these is what we got, really short tracks, with monotonous melodies, not saying all of them are bad... but they are "okeish" and not even that, can't even compare to the absolute bangers that we've got on the genesis era.
People in the comments conflating the real MD sounfont with this generic synth shit that Sega (or maybe Jun himself but I kinda doubt it) is intent on using for ""classic-style Sonic music"" is rather upsetting. So is the fact that some seem to downplay Jun's talent as a composer.
Ok, so you’re telling me, jun worked on flying battery zone’s theme… and then sonic 4 happened?
To be fair team sonic racings ost is awesome and tee lopes co composed several tracks on superstars that Jun senoue composed but yes the superstars ost is all over the place In quality
I liked Jun's tracks 🤷🏻♂️
Jun is a wonderful musician, the problem is that ever since he showed his skills with Sonic Adventure 1 and 2, SEGA took him as their musical gifted kid and they keep forcing him to compose music with a style and a soundfont he simply does not grasp as well as real instruments. But he's still done very good tracks considering how average Superstars's OST is.
This is almost like the equivalent of Tomoya Ohtani's music style from Unleashed to his style from Forces. It made me wonder why he swapped from amazing fast-paced orchestral tracks, to whatever the hell he was doing with synths in Forces. A lot of the music he did in the Cyberspace levels in Frontiers were major improvements and bops, though.
Jun Senoue, on the other hand, has used a Genesis soundfont in at least 4 to 5 games, and has yet to show clear improvement with it. At that point, he really should just stop and stick to what he does best.
No soundfonts are present in this soundtrack.
I think Ohtani was just trying something new for Forces, and it didn't work out. He has definite strengths and weaknesses as a composer, recall that he tried to imitate Hideki Naganuma's style for Rush Adventure and while it turned out okay, it was pretty mediocre. His strongest work was definitely Unleashed, but I thought Lost World was really solid too
If I hear a sonic 2 drum snare one more time I’m going to crack my nuts.
I'm never going to trust Jun with a 2d Sonic game again. The guy can do great things with an actual guitar but don't let him touch synth.
I'm honestly baffled how he seemingly hasn't learned in the past decade. Does he even listen to feedback? Surely he saw how Sonic 4's soundtrack was received.
Technically Sonic 4 Episode 2 was full of bangers compared to Episode 1, people liked White Park and a lot of levels at the time but yeah I agree.
OMG JOON SENOO USING S*NTHS 🤢🤢🤢
HOW DARE HE????????
ua-cam.com/video/G0mTiNxceKE/v-deo.htmlsi=TlAVkpGxcRV0ChT_
Sonic 3&k
I actually think Jun’s songs sound fine. But Tee Lopes steals the show.
Still don’t get y they don’t let jun make music with his guitar I don’t think it would ruin the scenery of the classic games
They should’ve let tee lopes do all the music
And benched Rintaro Soma? No way
Don't forget to Shadow the hedgehog works
What if I like both and don't get what the issue is!?
I personally don’t mind a lot of his tracks in Superstars, but Classic Sonic music is definitely not his forte
Jun you gotta stop with that snare drum
Sonic Team taking a major L by not keeping Jun and Crush 40.
Sonic Team? You mean SEGA, right?
Jun needs a guitar to create his good music, but they keep with the genesis sound and it don't work
It's true though 😭😭😭
Poor Senoue, He's made some of the BEST sonic music, but nothing's hit in the past decade 😭
He's such a legendary musician and it's like with this soundtrack he's actually retaliating against sega..Let my man pick up a guitar again.. or at least let him use good synths 😭😭
Nah man listen to Team sonic racing fron 2019 that shits got straight bangers by senoue
Sounds like 16 bit sound music vs 32 bit.
Hot take i like his genesis type music a little more than actual genesis music
The Super Smash Bros. Brawl remix lives rent free in my head. I wish Jun Senoue would stick to that style more.
The Early Boss theme sounds like failure. It’s so hilariously bad.
Why use Genesis music when the game is 3D. The Tee Lopes guy gets it.
Why 3D games cannot use midi music?
Tee Lopes is my favorite still
¿Que te pasó Jun Senoue?
Antes eras tan chevere!
Jun: Aun lo soy 😢
Nah! 😒
Somebody needs to take the genesis synth away from Jun. I stole that joke from somewhere else but i wholeheartedly believe it, mans needs 200CCs if electric guitar, STAT
Tee lopes and the other composers were killing it (just not Jun)
Jun should just be assigned to work on the modern games tbh. Tee brings that 90s flavor that was found in pop, hiphop, and R&B at the time that really made the Sonic soundtrack stand out in the 90s. I love Jun, but his stuff in the classic Sonic games just don't have any soul.
3D Blast has no soul?
@ikagura Personally I prefer the Richard Jacques Saturn soundtrack over the genesis.
I think Jun Senoue's work is still leagues better than the shit we got in Sonic 4 and Origins, but I still think he should've just used regular ass instruments, not the Genesis sound font, especially considering Tee Lopes didn't limit himself to that like Jun did. His tracks just stick out weirdly due to the way he composes Genesis music.
I feel like if Senoue was allowed, or allowed himself, to create the kind of tracks that he's good at making for Classic Sonic, we'd be hearing some good stuff. Just listen to his Mega Man 4 Medley he did for Smash.
Clearly not his best work nor his strong point. But he's still an absolute legend!
I kept getting sonic 4 Vietnam flashbacks