LS Tech: Installing the Melling 10295 Oil Pump
Вставка
- Опубліковано 27 сер 2024
- Melling 10295 Oil Pump
amzn.to/2Et1GeX
Sac City Corvette - Feel Gauge Set
www.saccitycorv...
This video shows you how to properly install your Melling oil pump with the correct clearances on the internal gears.
Not everybody would agree with his methods but I like what he's doing he's meticulous he's not making any false moves or leaving anything to chance
I'm sure plenty of these pumps get installed w/o doing the shim method and don't have any problems. However, this is the method specified by Melling for installing this pump, and they certainly know oil pumps better than I do. It's a bit more effort but at the same time it's not a part I want to risk having an issue with. So for me the extra effort is worth it. But it certainly doesn't hurt my feelings if someone chooses a different method. I'm just sharing what I did.
BTW.....My 2000 C5 Factory manual makes no mention of shimming OR cranking the motor over with finger tightened pump bolts. It just states to bolt her in, torque it to spec, and go to the next step...
Threw in my cam and pump today and realized my cam retainer was bad. Because of that I jumped on the internet and also realized I hadn't shimmed the pump during install. Thanks for another great video.
It stinks you had to do a bit of extra work, but way better that you caught it now vs later. It happens to the best of us though. I got so excited installing the rear block cover that I forgot to install the oil galley barbell first, haha. Luckily I realized it almost immediately, but I would have really been in trouble had I installed the motor and only discovered my error when I didn't have any oil pressure.
I agree with shimming this type of oil pump when it's installed, but you are way overthinking this. There is no reason for those 3000 shims where you put them. All you need is a 2000 shim on top and considering how long those are you can put them in sideways. You put one in the top, horizontally, you put one in the bottom horizontally, and you snug up the gear housing. Don't forget the blue light tight on the cover plate. Being that the threads are not contaminated with oil yet, it's a perfect opportunity to properly assemble it.
About three times more work than it needed to be.
Hey! I am trying to watch through each of your LS Tech videos step-by-step, but UA-cam is not cooperating. Can you please make a playlist for your LS Tech videos in order of the engine build sequence? Thanks!!!!!
About to do a cam in my C5 as well as supporting mods like this pump. Thanks for all the good info in these videos. I’m surprised you don’t have more views and subs.
Thanks, really glad you found the videos helpful. Working on getting my subscribers up but it's slow going. UA-cam puts a lot of pressure on how many subscribers you have have. But hopefully if the info in the videos is good, the subs will come with time. Thanks again, and if you have any questions, don't hesitate to post a question.
An interesting test would be shim vs non-shim pump install. Great video
Yes, I have to imagine a lot of these get installed without shimming, though Melling must have a solid reason for requiring this installation step. My guess is that the tolerances are tighter on the 10295/10296 pumps vs the standard replacement M295, and so shimming becomes more important for pump wear/performance.
I used the high volume melling pump without shims, I get about 65psi cold/50 running temp...
@@trentdawg2832 I don't think shimming your pump has anything to do with the oil pressure you get presently...It has to do with what your oil pressure will be years and 1000's of miles down the road...
💯
First time seeing this style oil pump , THANKS for the tutorial, William Orange county, ca.
Happy to share. Thanks for watching.
So, you shim the inner gear and the crank sprocket, then tighten the mounting bolts. Then remove the shims. Since the inner gear rides on the sprocket and not the housing the shims did nothing? I don't get it. I understand the outer ring, but the inner is a waste.
Why didn't you put a small amount of gasket sealer around the return hole, where the back of the oil pump contacts the engine block ? It seem like it might leak/ suck air, unless it's sealed up ?
Also, did you remove the stock oil pump spring, and put it in the new pump ? I want to increase my oil pressure, as much as possible.
because the pickup butts up against it's housing with an oring I'm pretty sure?...
Great video! For those naysayers, 9/10 times you can bolt the pump and go. However, if you are a true DIY'er and you port your own pump, shimming it is always a great idea.
I don't get it? once u remove those shims everything will go back the same inside those inner gear mechanisms
The goal is to ensure there are proper clearances around the pump gears before tightening down the pump housing. If you tightened down the housing and it was misaligned, you could get binding in the pump, which could lead to accelerated wear or stress cracking, etc.
I learned something, thanks
Glad to help. Thanks for watching!
why is all this necessary according to the internet experts but mellings install video is finger tight and then spin the motor over and torque to 18ftlbs?
Melling says NO! Just rotate the engine
You don’t have to shim it?
This is not the current install instructions from Melling as far as I can find - please view instructions - ua-cam.com/video/zzz6NkXTq24/v-deo.html&ab_channel=MellingEngineParts
can I use the 10295 on one LS1 99 camaro z28 engine?...because I try to order it on Ebay, but when I put the car information, they said " don't fit on this vehicle " but the 10296 fits ...the thing is , I already have the 10295. I was thinking in install it on my 98 trans am. but I change plans and I going to make a 99 ls1 swap...
i wounder if this even makes a difference with the shims
It's hard to say. The pump internals are made to very tight tolerances, so getting the clearances setup properly is important. The oil pump is also one item you just can't afford to have a failure with. So I think it's worth the extra time to go through the shim process.
i think seating the oring is more important then the shims.
Yes agreed, if you don't get the o-ring seated you're definitely going to have an oil pressure problem.
CAN I USE THE 10296 IN MY LS1 BUILD
Yes the 10295 and 10295 are for the LS1. Always confirm your specific application with the Melling application data.
Shimming the pump is overrated, I've always slapped them on with no issues. ....
do i have to setup the clearances? cant i just buy the melling pump and bolt on?
I sure am glad to hear some people say they just installed it and sent it down the road.
Dang I always bolt them on and send it lol
Same lol
Always worked for me.....lol
That's exactly what Melling told me to do... LMFAO
when the oil pump ships is the spring already in the oil pump?
Paul Morris yes the spring was already installed from the factory.
Thank You @@ScrufsGarage
What about changing to a double bolt oil pickup tube girdle ?
I used a pickup tube brace for Improved Racing and was happy with it. ua-cam.com/video/gD7gQLSLMTM/v-deo.html
Melling makes a bracket and bolt for that, it $32.00
3 toed sloth garage?
How much oil pressure is expected using this oil pump?
so my g8 had dod and its deleted... still have the stock oil pump and i believe they were already a high volume pump to begin with now is it necessary to upgrade the pump with a better unit since it doesnt have dod?
Need some help folks. I cammed my car little over a year ago. Swapped in a 10296 while i had it open. Car ran strong. Last week out of the blue i got low pressure and engine sounded dry. Point me in the right direction. Im gonna pull the pan and swap oring and check pick up screen. If not ill probably swap my oil pump. What else if this doesnt do it? Barbell? Valley cover seals?
Sorry to hear this. Have you cut open an oil filter yet and looked at the filter media to see if there is debris, etc? Do you have any oil pressure? Does it rise with rpm? There's a possibility the oil pump bypass is stuck open, bleeding off oil pressure. Another option is that the oil pressure sensor has gone bad and is giving a false low pressure reading. Though that shouldn't cause any odd engine sounds though. Definitely share whatever you find it to be. Hopefully it's something minor.
Wouldn't it just be easier to turn it upside-down fill with oil and rotate a bit untill everything gets semi center then install, and then let the oil fill the gaps?
Where does the spring and hex screw goes that come in the box
My memory is a bit fuzzy, but I believe the 10295 comes with the high pressure spring pre-installed, and then an extra stock pressure spring that you could swap in if you wanted too. And the hex screw is probably the screw that holds that spring in place. Hard to say for sure without seeing it. I have two other videos about the GM and Melling pumps so you can see the internals and see how the spring works. Here's one... ua-cam.com/video/c_HNZ9vIBFc/v-deo.html
When you pull that hex screw out to swap pressure springs it also gives you a great way to prime the oil pump (assuming you already have the oil pan in place... Tho it shouldn't make THAT big of a difference).
Just slip the hose from your hand pump in to the opening and gently pump until the oil starts to run out of it. You can also use any old piece of 3/8" hose, a small funnel, and slowly pour oil in.
Not sure lubricating when working with clearances is a good idea.
How's the grass coming?
Great! But that's because we sold the house with an acre yard last summer and move to a townhouse. No more yard maintenance for this guy, haha. But at the time of this video, that grass was Fescue, which needed to be overseeded every year; so it was a multi-weekend project to dethatch, aerate, seed, fertilizer, and move sprinklers around.
Did you use loctite or grease on the bolts?
I used blue locktite.
Is this a worthwhile step on the M295 pump?
2nd t30 bolt I tried to remove from the pump stripped. What to do now? Cant remove the cover.
Ugh sorry to hear that. As a reminder the pump cover uses torx plus bits (slightly different than regular torx). If the bolt head is stripped you’ll have to try some type of bolt extractor. Or drill it out but I would try an extractor first.
Maybe a rookie move, but I thought torx plus benefits the tool longevity. The t30 torx tool I had held up and fit ok, but the bolt shredded. I even had to torch the spring bolt to loosen it up so I can remove the spring.
Hey man I'm planning on doing a cam install on my 2010 Camaro ss, just wondering if you need to like prime the oil pump or something like that because I plan on buying a melling oil pump for it, thanks in advanced
You can't prime these pumps like you could in the old SBC motors. Melling sells a fancy engine priming tank for the LS motors, but it's waaay too expensive for the average person and not really needed. Check out my "1st Startup" video; I talk about how I primed the system. Essentially you pull the fuel pump fuse and crank over the motor for a bit to get the system semi-primed. There's also an oil galley plug on the front driver's side of the block that you can remove and back fill some oil into. Both are shown in the 1st start up video.
you shouldn't take advice from backyard mechanics. try this ua-cam.com/video/539ClWWJMl8/v-deo.html
There is an Allen plug to the right side of the motor, take it off and get a turkey baster full of oil force it in that hole, keep filling till oil comes out, spin the motor a little by hand and add some more till it comes out the hole ....then cap it, disconnect your coil harness and fuel pump and turn over the motor with your starter until you see your oil pressure gauge move ......then connect Your fuel and coils and fire in the hole.....that's my way of doing it and I haven't had any low oil pressure issues at all !!! , don't let the Internet and faulty wannabe ls swappers intimidate you, it's really not that difficult,
You can pack the pump with Vaseline, it’ll give a nice vacuum to pull up the oil
Rule 1 on installing a oil pump … suppose to pack them with engine bearing grease lol so u don’t have a dry start
Is that an oil pump alignment tool?
Yes, those are shims for measuring clearance around the oil pump gear before tightening down the oil pump housing. SacCity sells an inexpensive shim kit. Should be a link in the episode notes.
Are there no shaft seals on thes pump?
That's correct. The pump sit inside the front cover, so any oil leakage just drips back down into the pan.
Where did you source your timing chain dampener?
Damian Sinclair it’s a kit from Trickflow. I have one of the early blocks that isn’t pre-drilled for a dampener. I discuss it a bit more in my timing chain video. Check it out if you’re interested!
Does melling say this is necessary?
Melling used to have a nice tech video that showed this procedure; not sure if it's still available or not. But the general premise is to ensure the oil pump gear and housing are perfectly concentric to the crank before tightening down the oil pump housing bolts. This prevents any binding points between the gear and the housing through it's rotation.
@ScrufsGarage I watches the video they have posted and it wasn't this procedure. I like this one better but isn't how melling says to do it , at least not currently .
So how exactly does this matter if gravity pulls the parts back down after you remove the shims? LOL
Essentially what you are doing is aligning the pump housing. You tighten the pump housing after you put the shims in place. Then as the pump rotates within the housing, it has the proper clearances.
@@ScrufsGarage I talked to Melling tech support and they said it's a complete waste of time?
@@YZFoFittie wow. Interesting.,, yeah fk this. 😂 I’ve always just thrown them in also. Rotate the crank by hand to make sure it’s not bound up..
What part # you use in your timing chain dampener? What brand
So I have an "early" LS1 block that was not pre-drilled for the timing chain dampener. So I used Trickflow Timing Damper Bracket - TFS-30675600. I did an installation video if you would like to see more detail. ua-cam.com/video/a8EicgVqvT8/v-deo.html
great video. I've followed it pretty much exactly. I can turn the crank freely with the front cover off. Once I put the front cover the crank does not turn freely anymore. Thoughts?
Double row timing chain? If yes Cover will need to be clearanced
I'm doing a cam swap and most parts will be stock GM parts. What oil pump would you recommend for a high millage engine?
For a normal street car, you'd probably be fine with the standard Melling M295. If you're planning to track the car, I might spend the money for the 10295. It may already be part of your build plans, but if you're doing a cam and anew oil pump, don't forget about the timing chain. The LS2 timing chain is an upgrade over the LS1 version, and it's not expensive. Good luck on your build!
Scruf's Garage it's a truck with the 6.0 and LS3 heads. If you wanna give any advice on anything else I should get let me know. This is my first time lol.
Scruf's Garage what makes you recommend the LS2 chain over the LS1?
I'm building a LS1-type 5.7 out of a 5.3 for my 06 Z71 Suburban
@@cmcolfax1 the ls2 chain has thicker links then the ls1 chain
@Scruf's Garage The HV, 10296 (with standard pressure spring!) pump is fine for new, or older builds. More than standard pressure does nothing but take more power to spin the pump, and if it gets too high, can aerate the oil, causing engine damage....
Did u put in the high pressure spring or leave the one that came in it
I left the one that came pre-installed. While it is advertised that there should be a high pressure spring in the box... mine did not come with one.
Well let me ask you this do GM take the time out and do this for every motor?
Interesting question. I highly doubt GM would have a worker using shims on the assembly line. An automated production line would have another method of centering the oil pump during installation. In the same way that GM probably doesn't have a worker using one of the SacCity alignment tools to center the front and rear covers. But I haven't seen their production line, so I can't say for sure.
@@ScrufsGarage definitely a great answer I would imagine how do you research something like this through GM to see if they actually do what they supposed to do
@@ScrufsGarage and thank you so much for getting back to me I love your videos I imitate everything just about I'm working on my LS1 as we speak now
No, they also reuse head bolts.
What’s the difference between the 10295 and the 10296?
The 10295 is a standard volume, high pressure pump. The 10296 is a high volume, high pressure pump. The "high pressure" refers to the the spring used for the bypass that controls the maximum pressure of the pump. The 10295 also includes a stock pressure spring. With either pump, Melling testing suggests that the OE GM pump begins to cavitate above 6200 rpms and flow/pressure drops. The Melling pump design alleviates that issue. Improved Racing has a nice graph on their website to illustrate. www.improvedracing.com/oil-pumps-mechanical/melling-10295-standard-volume-high-pressure-ls-oil-pump-p-485.html
Scruf's Garage thanks. So the closest thing to stock is the 10295?
Yes, you could run the 10295 and the stock pressure spring. That would probably be the closest to stock but still get the benefits of the Melling pump above 6200 rpms.
Scruf's Garage thanks. Appreciate the responses.
Soaking those solid gears in oil does absolutely nothing.
yea and where tf am i gunna buy shims and wait week
LS Brandon SacCity corvette sells a set of the shims for this. Link in the episode notes.
Scruf's Garage on the installing vid did u have to add the spring ?? Or is it already in there
LS Brandon the bypass spring came preinstalled. 👍
Scruf's Garage oh okay thank you i didnt know since it came with 2 extra springs
LS Brandon so mine actually didn’t come with an extra spring. I think it probably should have. The bypass spring is just held in by a threaded plug. The safest bet is to back that out and confirm what is installed. It will only take a minute and eliminates any worries.
I know this video was a long time ago I'm just seeing it that is my question to you