History/Originality: Triumph GT6+/Mk2 Marketing and the Heated Rear Glass Transition (Ep13.Aug23)
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- Опубліковано 11 лип 2024
- Triumph GT6 History/Originality: Triumph GT6+/Mk2 Marketing and the Heated Rear Glass Transition (ca. 1970)
Small Triumph Sports Library & Archives, Episode 13 (August 2023)
A much-lengthier-than-originally-planned discussion of GT6+/Mk2 marketing, especially with regard to the Triplex heated rear window introduced in 1968 for the 1969 model year and then redesigned in or around 1970. The episode ultimately centers around questions about when and how Triumph rolled out the second version of the heated rear window.
As always, my videos are based on some combination of research and experience.
***Please help me to ensure the accuracy of information on my channel. Please reach out when you detect errors or possible errors. I make corrections as needed in video descriptions, in comments, and in videos.
***For videos such as this one, I’m ALWAYS seeking useful input, advice, etc.
Initial notes/corrections, pedantic nonsense, and self-mockery:
This video took me A LOT longer to put together than I anticipated. For all of that, and despite history, I find it hard to believe that I managed to ramble for over thirty minutes on this video…
3:03 Taylor, p. 46; Nikas, p. 59.
4:00 See, for example, Robson, p. 72. Admittedly, “a lot of” is probably an exaggeration, as some of this characterization involves reading between the lines in the criticisms of the car’s handling. It is important to emphasize, though, that Michael Cook, who was working for Triumph in the U.S. when the GT6 was introduced, notes “Soft suspension settings (supposedly for the American market although there is no record that Triumph’s U.S. company asked for them)” and declares, “The UK and European road testers were right that the rear suspension would have to be changed, but wrong in their assumption that the U.S.A. wanted the soft settings“ (p. 68).
6:21 See “A Qualified Triumph,” Sports Car Graphic March 1969, reprinted in Clarke, pp. 82-85, and “Triumph GT6+ Better Handling, Quicker, More Comfortable,” Road & Track February 1969, reprinted in Clarke, pp.86-88
10:34 The article on Triplex glass is available here: www.mg-tabc.org/library/triple...
11:40 UPDATE (10 Sept 2023): I did discover a source that establishes that, as I began to suspect, Triplex went to month-specific coding in 1969, the year AFTER my glass was manufactured. However, it could be that the new system was introduced earlier on specific products, and, indeed, a comment on the source says that the change occurred for 1968. That coding uses a system of one and/or two dots above the Triplex lettering, and in that system my glass (with two dots over the "T") should be read as manufactured in May 1968. That date makes even more sense to me than the plausible first quarter of 1968. The additional source is here: www.bobine.nl/turner/01-genera...
Video correction here: • Cleanup on Episode 13:...
I also inserted a badge into the posted video calling attention to this correction.
16:02 Prior to the spec sheet.
20:10 I have not come across any strong evidence about this change in terms of whether it was driven by Triplex, was requested by automotive manufacturers, or if it was more of a collaborative rethink.
28:47 Sometimes pronounced “eh-rot-a,” but I was shooting for a clear distinction between “errata” and “erotic.”
Works Cited
NOTE: Many of the images used are of original materials in my possession, but for some images I’m indebted to those out there who share photos and scans on the Internet.
Clarke, R.M., compiler. Triumph GT6 Gold Portfolio 1966-1974. Brooklands Books, n.d.
Cook, Michael. The Triumph Spitfire. TAB Books, 1981.
Nikas, John. Triumph Spitfire & GT6: Setting the Small Sports Car Standard. Amberly, 2019.
Pelton, Doug (researcher/compiler). “Triplex Glass-Originality for MG-T Cars” Available at: www.mg-tabc.org/library/triple...
Robson, Graham. Triumph Spitfire and GT6: A Collector’s Guide. Motor Racing Publications, 1991.
Taylor, James. Triumph Spitfire and GT6: The Complete Story. Crowood Press, 2000.
"Triplex Glass Manufacturing Date Codes." Bobine. Available at: www.bobine.nl/turner/01-genera...
I've watched 6 vids so far, I hope you keep doing just as you are. Thank you from another Triumph Lover including my 1971 Triumph Bonneville Which has been a family name for all my life as you.
Many thanks for the kind words and encouragement! I've been slower than expected developing content this summer, but I hope to have something new posted soon.
I had a ‘74 mk 3 in ‘82. A bit rough on a motorway but fabulous accelerating up and down back streets of London with that addictive 6-cylinder howl in 1st and 2nd gears
Thanks for this!
Two time 1970 GT6 + Owner.
GT6's Talk back to their drivers and they are not soft spoken. Long term owners understand every word coming through those pipes.
IMHO, There has never been a more fun car to drive.
Thanks for commenting/sharing! I've not driven my GT6 and it will be a while before I do, but I look forward to eventually being able to compare driving it with driving my Spitfire (I have 30+ years of experience with that car). Many say they are two very different creatures built on the same platform, and I expect that's true.
In my opinion there is NO comparison between driving a Spitfire, a TR and a GT.
I've had several spits and a TR. Great cars, But the GT will not dissapoint you. I say often; If money was not a factor and I could have any car in the world, what would I choose? A Triumph GT 6+.
The absolute most fun on 4 wheels possible.
I almost forgot. Tires.
I run with BF Goodrich P205/60R13 Radials.
The car takes on a different look (low & mean) and curve handling is amazingly better.
Just a suggestion.
How are you avoiding tire rubbing the firewall?
I’m just starting to choose tires and wheels, and it seems like 60 ratio tires would impact speedo, no?
I have not had any tire rubbing and It is all stock 13inch steel wheels. Speedo effect minimal I don’t remember how much. It was 50 + years ago I had a Fla. Sheriff pace me, he said it would not be enough difference to get pulled over. That part I do remember.
I bought a US market 1970 GT-6+ around 1979 and I know it had the horizontal defroster rear glass and was almost certainly original to the car. VIN # was KC79054L. Production date possibly Mar of '70. Great car, absolutely loved it, and my younger brother still owns bits of it.
Thanks for the information!
Nice! I am "the owner with the May build date"! with the horizontal glass.
I enjoyed the video. One thing that might help make sense is I am in Canada, so maybe the US and CAD market was different somehow? We seem to have gotten a bit of US and UK labeling etc... maybe it's the snow lol
My car is a 70 but it didn't get sold and titled in Canada until 1971 and was off the road by 75 as they blew up the transmission. I am confidant that it's the original glass, I've known about the car since the 90's.
I appreciate the kind words, and thanks for sharing! If possible, I'd be interested in the date of manufacture for that glass if you can find and read the marks.
Thanks get info the more the better for me.
Thanks for watching, and I appreciate the encouragement!
Hi my UK market // RHD GT6 mk2 has horizontal heating elements ... can't rule out if they have been refitted ... build date aug 1, 1970
Thank you Flip Martens
Thanks for the information! The date code on the glass would provide a useful clue; please let me know if you can make it out.
This might be a total red herring, but the Mk2 at 24:10 has a hatch with a Mk3 knob on it...
Good catch! I didn't notice that detail. I was looking for a photo of a Mk2/+ with horizontal elements, and I prefer to use my own photos when possible. That is a shot I took of a fellow club member's car. It's a 1969, and I don't think there is any way that boot handle is original. I've spoken with the owner a few times, and he once told me that he has a parts car and enough parts to probably make a complete car, so it's possible that he has done a little mixing and matching.
I also noted that the horizontal elements had the late knob as well. I wonder what the assembly process was and if they inadvertantly fitted complete Mk3 tailgates on some Mk 2s. Quality control was not the greatest.
I missed this comment earlier. Seems possible. There are plenty of stories that indicate "quality control was not the greatest," and we have good reason to believe there was some mixing up of old and new parts when the production of two different versions of a car overlapped.
I have added to the Video Description (comment for/at 11:40) information I found on the month-specific coding that Triplex began to use in 1969, according to the source, but earlier, based on evidence and a comment on the source. I suspected something was off when I noticed two dots above the "T" on my glass but hadn't yet seen anything to explain that. However, I was looking at the code on the rear glass of a fellow club member's 1973 GT6 Mk3 yesterday and had no idea how to interpret it, which convinced me that I needed to do some more digging. I'm now confident that my glass uses the then-new month-specific system and was manufactured in May 1968. Not a huge difference, but an important one.
Video correction here: ua-cam.com/video/7b5lU9aWzSw/v-deo.html
I also inserted a badge into the posted video calling attention to this correction.